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View Full Version : CP3, Howard and co don't want to sacrifice but they claim to want championship!



4milesperday
07-01-2013, 10:17 AM
We live in a diff NBA world now; one that commands serious management of cap space for a team to be a legit contender and ultimately win a championship. Lebron, Wade and Bosh understood this and took less for their ultimate goal. Fast forward to guys like CP3, Josh Smith, Brandon Jennings, Dwight Howard etc...none of this guys are willing to leave a cent on the table yet they claim to be looking for the best situation to win a championship.

CP3 will sign a 5yr 107 million contract, Blake Griffin is already signed to 5yr 95 mill contract, what space is left to sign other contributing players? The Clippers are basically investing $200 million in alley hoops and a couple assists, is it really worth it?

We all know none of this guys can win anything by themselves, heck a pair of them cannot win a thing, so why don't we see more sacrifice? Is CP3, Howard, Josh Smith worth 22 million a year? Where is the NBA getting the money they're paying this guys that can't even fill 1/8th of the arena?

bloomis1307
07-01-2013, 10:36 AM
To be honest I wouldn't call what Lebron Wade and Bosh did a huge "sacrifice" to play together. Lets be honest when you're making 20 million a year taking a 2 million dollar paycut is nothing....and thats not even including all the endorsements they knew they'd make. I mean Wade's app alone is probably making him just as much as his contract (sarcasm).....I think the NFL is a better example, you see people restructure their contracts all the time to help out a team ie big ben did not too long ago. This isn't as common place in the NBA.

just my .02

blastmasta26
07-01-2013, 10:38 AM
^ Not to mention the fact that there's no state income tax in Florida.

knicksfan1969
07-01-2013, 10:42 AM
Why settle for less when Owners are willing to pay tax to add players of need.

Look at the Knicks ... and they are managing to add salary like crazy.

Players need to get what they can get.

Only think I hate are guaranteed contracts b/c it makes them lazy and stupid.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 10:44 AM
Miles you're clueless. Clippers offer CP3 the best guarantee at competing at a high level for years to come. Houston wasn't going to get both and there is ZERO guarantee that if he goes to Atlanta or Dallas that headcase Dwight follows through and joins. Most money, best chance to win with most roster upside= Clippers. In other words it was clearly a no brainer. And he gets to be coached by 1 of the 4 NBA champion coaches currently in the NBA.

Also don't talk about other team's cap situations if you won't do the research. The Clippers currently have just 5 players under contract and aren't even a taxpaying team. They got full MLE last year and will get it again this year which means they can pay a nice piece 5.5 million a year or split it. They aren't the Knicks, Lakers or Nets in terms of being financially crippled. In two years the only players on our books will be Blake+CP3, giving us about 20 million in cap.

Clippers future caps situation is as good as it gets considering we have two max players on the books soon.

KnickaBocka.44
07-01-2013, 10:46 AM
To be honest I wouldn't call what Lebron Wade and Bosh did a huge "sacrifice" to play together. Lets be honest when you're making 20 million a year taking a 2 million dollar paycut is nothing....and thats not even including all the endorsements they knew they'd make. I mean Wade's app alone is probably making him just as much as his contract (sarcasm).....I think the NFL is a better example, you see people restructure their contracts all the time to help out a team ie big ben did not too long ago. This isn't as common place in the NBA.

just my .02

It's not allowed in the NBA.

c.c.
07-01-2013, 11:19 AM
Miles you're clueless. Clippers offer CP3 the best guarantee at competing at a high level for years to come. Houston wasn't going to get both and there is ZERO guarantee that if he goes to Atlanta or Dallas that headcase Dwight follows through and joins. Most money, best chance to win with most roster upside= Clippers. In other words it was clearly a no brainer. And he gets to be coached by 1 of the 4 NBA champion coaches currently in the NBA.

Also don't talk about other team's cap situations if you won't do the research. The Clippers currently have just 5 players under contract and aren't even a taxpaying team. They got full MLE last year and will get it again this year which means they can pay a nice piece 5.5 million a year or split it. They aren't the Knicks, Lakers or Nets in terms of being financially crippled. In two years the only players on our books will be Blake+CP3, giving us about 20 million in cap.

Clippers future caps situation is as good as it gets considering we have two max players on the books soon.

We was gonna get rid of Lin and Asik contracts

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 11:22 AM
We was gonna get rid of Lin and Asik contracts

Let's say Houston does that. That leaves just ONE other situation that might have been better long term for CP3, although that's even debatable. Fit wise I think CP3+Griffin is much better than CP3+Harden both now and long term. Point is... CP3 didn't make the decision just for the money and he didn't make a bad decision. It was either LAC or Houston if he wants to contend long term and him and his family LOVE LA and the culture of the team too much to bail.

There are too many good reasons to stay which is why for months I've been challenging anybody on here who acted like this was a ****** situation for him. I even offered to ban myself from this forum if he left on multiple occasions because I knew I was right.

KnickaBocka.44
07-01-2013, 11:22 AM
We was gonna get rid of Lin and Asik contracts

No you weren't.

KnickaBocka.44
07-01-2013, 11:24 AM
Miles you're clueless. Clippers offer CP3 the best guarantee at competing at a high level for years to come. Houston wasn't going to get both and there is ZERO guarantee that if he goes to Atlanta or Dallas that headcase Dwight follows through and joins. Most money, best chance to win with most roster upside= Clippers. In other words it was clearly a no brainer. And he gets to be coached by 1 of the 4 NBA champion coaches currently in the NBA.

Also don't talk about other team's cap situations if you won't do the research. The Clippers currently have just 5 players under contract and aren't even a taxpaying team. They got full MLE last year and will get it again this year which means they can pay a nice piece 5.5 million a year or split it. They aren't the Knicks, Lakers or Nets in terms of being financially crippled. In two years the only players on our books will be Blake+CP3, giving us about 20 million in cap.

Clippers future caps situation is as good as it gets considering we have two max players on the books soon.

In 2 years the only players on the Knicks payroll will be Felton, Shump and Hardaway. Knicks are definitely not financially crippled.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 11:30 AM
In 2 years the only players on the Knicks payroll will be Felton, Shump and Hardaway. Knicks are definitely not financially crippled.

For the next two years the Clippers aren't, the Knicks are like 30 million over cap? So in two years similar cap situations but right now Clippers aren't even a tax paying team yet and can offer full MLE.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 11:30 AM
@CP3: I'M IN!!! #CLIPPERNATION

Boom!

KnickaBocka.44
07-01-2013, 11:34 AM
For the next two years the Clippers aren't, the Knicks are like 30 million over cap? So in two years similar cap situations but right now Clippers aren't even a tax paying team yet and can offer full MLE.

The Clippers will be there soon enough once they fill out the roster this offseason.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 11:39 AM
The Clippers will be there soon enough once they fill out the roster this offseason.

Agreed once they get to 12 players will obviously be a tax payer. Just saying RIGHT NOW they aren't screwed because they signed CP3. Now need to fill in roster with trades, MLE and minimum contracts. Going to be tight but I think they will do well.

beasted86
07-01-2013, 11:51 AM
To be honest I wouldn't call what Lebron Wade and Bosh did a huge "sacrifice" to play together. Lets be honest when you're making 20 million a year taking a 2 million dollar paycut is nothing....and thats not even including all the endorsements they knew they'd make. I mean Wade's app alone is probably making him just as much as his contract (sarcasm).....I think the NFL is a better example, you see people restructure their contracts all the time to help out a team ie big ben did not too long ago. This isn't as common place in the NBA.

just my .02


^ Not to mention the fact that there's no state income tax in Florida.

What do any of these have to do with what the OP is saying?

All 3 of these guys could have taken an $18.5M starting pay as a max salary caliber player, and they all instead took a $15.2M starting salary. The HEAT had the cap space to sign all 3 at that amount, but that would have meant no Mike Miller or Udonis Haslem.

In the case of Dwight Howard, if he is indeed leaning toward the Rockets, why have them trade away a talent like T-Rob for pennies on the dollar if he can take $1M less in starting pay? He can surely make up that in endorsements.

What the OP is saying is some of these guys want every penny (I don't blame them), but at the same time claim they are all about winning a championship and money is secondary when that's not the case. That's all.

Max.This
07-01-2013, 12:15 PM
For the next two years the Clippers aren't, the Knicks are like 30 million over cap? So in two years similar cap situations but right now Clippers aren't even a tax paying team yet and can offer full MLE.

Why do fans care about how much tax one team is paying, its not like we pay any of it. The truth is if owners are willing they can overspend as much as they want. Im glad the nets are overpaying because now the knicks feel obligated to overpay so bet on it we will be taking in more contracts to pay more tax. Guess what? as a fan I dont care if my team pays a billion dollars in taxes because not one penny comes out of my paycheck

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 12:20 PM
Why do fans care about how much tax one team is paying, its not like we pay any of it. The truth is if owners are willing they can overspend as much as they want. Im glad the nets are overpaying because now the knicks feel obligated to overpay so bet on it we will be taking in more contracts to pay more tax. Guess what? as a fan I dont care if my team pays a billion dollars in taxes because not one penny comes out of my paycheck

Well it matters because tax payers can only offer mini mid which is a little over 3 mill, where as non tax payers can offer 5.5. That's significant when luring players.

c.c.
07-01-2013, 02:01 PM
No you weren't.

Why you so sure?

c.c.
07-01-2013, 02:05 PM
Let's say Houston does that. That leaves just ONE other situation that might have been better long term for CP3, although that's even debatable. Fit wise I think CP3+Griffin is much better than CP3+Harden both now and long term. Point is... CP3 didn't make the decision just for the money and he didn't make a bad decision. It was either LAC or Houston if he wants to contend long term and him and his family LOVE LA and the culture of the team too much to bail.

There are too many good reasons to stay which is why for months I've been challenging anybody on here who acted like this was a ****** situation for him. I even offered to ban myself from this forum if he left on multiple occasions because I knew I was right.

He's gonna enjoy that LA culture every summer too since he'll only working for October til April/May

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:10 PM
He's gonna enjoy that LA culture every summer too since he'll only working for October til April/May

Fill in these blank sentences. The Clippers have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs _____ times in the last decade. Follow that up with... The Rockets have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs ______ times in the last decade. I'll give you a clue. One team has been there T___ the other Z___.

RiceOnTheRun
07-01-2013, 02:15 PM
In 2 years the only players on the Knicks payroll will be Felton, Shump and Hardaway. Knicks are definitely not financially crippled.

Whoa whoa whoa. Gotta disagree with you here, we have a guy named Amar'e Stoudemire on this team. Non-existant in the playoffs last year and basically tacked on 20m to our payroll. Without him, our payroll is around ~56m, just 1m over the cap. If we had that money to sign some other guys, I'd give us a pretty decent shot at beating the Pacers, so until he starts playing like he should he is financially crippling us. In 2 years though, I just hope we start rebuilding this team.


Miles you're clueless. Clippers offer CP3 the best guarantee at competing at a high level for years to come. Houston wasn't going to get both and there is ZERO guarantee that if he goes to Atlanta or Dallas that headcase Dwight follows through and joins. Most money, best chance to win with most roster upside= Clippers. In other words it was clearly a no brainer. And he gets to be coached by 1 of the 4 NBA champion coaches currently in the NBA.

Also don't talk about other team's cap situations if you won't do the research. The Clippers currently have just 5 players under contract and aren't even a taxpaying team. They got full MLE last year and will get it again this year which means they can pay a nice piece 5.5 million a year or split it. They aren't the Knicks, Lakers or Nets in terms of being financially crippled. In two years the only players on our books will be Blake+CP3, giving us about 20 million in cap.

Clippers future caps situation is as good as it gets considering we have two max players on the books soon.

Clippers were by far the best situation for CP3. BG is gonna keep improving and he has a nice supporting cast. Doc > McHale, Carlisle and whoever the Hawks coach is. While I still think Houston is the best spot for Dwight, I honestly don't think CP3 would fit as well with Harden. He's a floor general, not just some spot-up shooter.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 02:26 PM
Yea Harden and CP3 would have been weird. I agree Houston was a great possibility too, although like I said getting BOTH Dwight and CP3 was highly unrealistic from day one.

c.c.
07-01-2013, 02:51 PM
Fill in these blank sentences. The Clippers have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs _____ times in the last decade. Follow that up with... The Rockets have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs ______ times in the last decade. I'll give you a clue. One team has been there T___ the other Z___.

I forgot the year but that year we lost to the Lakers in the semifinals (Artest choked) but the 2014 1st round match up of the Rockets & Clippers. One is the 5th seed and the other is the 4th seed, see you there (Dwight or no Dwight)

Dade County
07-01-2013, 02:51 PM
Every organization doesn't have a Pat and Wade combo.

For players to take less, they have to be presented why taking less can benefit them; and only a hand full of people in the world can actually encourage another human being to take less of anything (thanks Pat!).

Then you need a player on the team that the other player can relate with. Wade has been molded by Pat, Bosh & Lbj seen Wade's sacrifice and we see the story unfolding before are eyes.

Cp3 knows that his current team isn't ready to win a championship right now, but maybe in 3yrs they can compete for one. Cp3 had to way is options, try to team up with Howard (and take 8 - 15mil less), or get paid and have a possibility to compete for a championship in the near future.

Yes if Cp3 & Howard was fully about winning over getting max dollars, they would have find away to team up (They should already been team mates- Stern and the Owners have forever tainted NBA history). Cp3 would have made it work in Houston with Harden (star win, end of story), or wherever they would have decided to team up.

Now I can only hope (since I like loaded teams), that the Clippers front office can move some pieces and Howard can walk on & sign their as a free agent.

Now we have to wait & see if Blake can actually grow as a player, or they will never get passed the top teams in the west.

IKnowHoops
07-01-2013, 03:02 PM
Miles you're clueless. Clippers offer CP3 the best guarantee at competing at a high level for years to come. Houston wasn't going to get both and there is ZERO guarantee that if he goes to Atlanta or Dallas that headcase Dwight follows through and joins. Most money, best chance to win with most roster upside= Clippers. In other words it was clearly a no brainer. And he gets to be coached by 1 of the 4 NBA champion coaches currently in the NBA.

Also don't talk about other team's cap situations if you won't do the research. The Clippers currently have just 5 players under contract and aren't even a taxpaying team. They got full MLE last year and will get it again this year which means they can pay a nice piece 5.5 million a year or split it. They aren't the Knicks, Lakers or Nets in terms of being financially crippled. In two years the only players on our books will be Blake+CP3, giving us about 20 million in cap.

Clippers future caps situation is as good as it gets considering we have two max players on the books soon.

Is that Popavich in your sig dancing like that? Please tell me yes.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 03:11 PM
Is that Popavich in your sig dancing like that? Please tell me yes.

Yes :laugh2:

Chuck Taylor
07-01-2013, 03:44 PM
I think an S&T to the Lakers is still possible.

D12 for Griffen, Jordan, and Bledsoe.

OceanSpray
07-01-2013, 04:07 PM
I said it from the start and I'll say it again. Certain players you can tell probably won't win a champion because of how they play. Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, Carmelo, Joe Johnson, Deron Williams. Those players will never win a ring because they don't have the mindset of doing whatever it takes. Blake still hasn't improved much since his rookie year. Rose is a quitter. Carmelo just keeps taking shots and doesn't adapt in different situations. Joe Johnson sucks. Deron Williams doesn't even look like he cares. One of the reasons why I hate people blaming Miami for creating a superteam is because they don't realize that superteams were already there. How do you think LAL, Spurs, Boston, and other teams won? They were just a better team than everyone else. Miami just figured that out and had to create one to beat one. Now the league is just catching up and soon, it'll be packed.

Dade County
07-01-2013, 04:21 PM
I think an S&T to the Lakers is still possible.

D12 for Griffen, Jordan, and Bledsoe.

CRazy fanatics...

The Lakers are the only team in the NBA, that thinks they are supposed to get back an All Star player from a sign & trade; when it comes to their all star leaving.


Cash Cow Griffin isn't going anywhere... Lakers will either take Jordan & Bledsoe or neither team gets Howard (if Howard is leaving the Lakers, off course). If the Lakers wanted more for Howard they should have traded him at the mid way point of this past season.

If the Lakers let him walk and get noting, thats their business (they are looking forward to 2014 anyway... I don't think thats going to really work out for them, but whatever).

Avenged
07-01-2013, 04:27 PM
Chris Paul already sacrificed a lot by committing to the Clippers.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 04:28 PM
I said it from the start and I'll say it again. Certain players you can tell probably won't win a champion because of how they play. Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, Carmelo, Joe Johnson, Deron Williams. Those players will never win a ring because they don't have the mindset of doing whatever it takes. Blake still hasn't improved much since his rookie year. Rose is a quitter. Carmelo just keeps taking shots and doesn't adapt in different situations. Joe Johnson sucks. Deron Williams doesn't even look like he cares. One of the reasons why I hate people blaming Miami for creating a superteam is because they don't realize that superteams were already there. How do you think LAL, Spurs, Boston, and other teams won? They were just a better team than everyone else. Miami just figured that out and had to create one to beat one. Now the league is just catching up and soon, it'll be packed.

WTF? Blake has sacrificed more than ANY superstar in the game including Wade. From day one he's been willing to adjust his game to anybody and took a backseat to CP3. Also don't forget he's made zero issue with the Clippers bringing on players that he had big drama with before. Guys like Odom and Barnes who have cheapshotted him multiple times and called him out that he welcomed into the team. Blake's the opposite.. he IS willing to do anything for the good of the team and has. Sorry he's not the MVP after 3 years lol..

As Avenged said CP3 also sacrificed a fu** ton to come to a historically bad franchise with the reputation the Clippers had.

blahblahyoutoo
07-01-2013, 04:30 PM
To be honest I wouldn't call what Lebron Wade and Bosh did a huge "sacrifice" to play together. Lets be honest when you're making 20 million a year taking a 2 million dollar paycut is nothing....and thats not even including all the endorsements they knew they'd make. I mean Wade's app alone is probably making him just as much as his contract (sarcasm).....I think the NFL is a better example, you see people restructure their contracts all the time to help out a team ie big ben did not too long ago. This isn't as common place in the NBA.

just my .02

then why isn't everyone doing it?

OceanSpray
07-01-2013, 04:51 PM
WTF? Blake has sacrificed more than ANY superstar in the game including Wade. From day one he's been willing to adjust his game to anybody and took a backseat to CP3. Also don't forget he's made zero issue with the Clippers bringing on players that he had big drama with before. Guys like Odom and Barnes who have cheapshotted him multiple times and called him out that he welcomed into the team. Blake's the opposite.. he IS willing to do anything for the good of the team and has. Sorry he's not the MVP after 3 years lol..

As Avenged said CP3 also sacrificed a fu** ton to come to a historically bad franchise with the reputation the Clippers had.

Emotional Clippers fan over here. Anyone outside the LAC fanbase knows Blake is overrated. I haven't seen him improve much since his rookie year. He's nothing but a dunker who has no go to move other than lobs. I never mentioned anything about sacrifice. I'm just saying Blake Griffin is one of those players who very likely won't win a ring because of the fact that he hasn't shown much improvement. Just like Melo, Deron, or Joe, none of these players have stepped up at any point in their career and carried their team. Players like Kobe, Durant, James, Wade, Duncan - all of them step up. Blake Griffin does not.

Clippersfan86
07-01-2013, 04:53 PM
Emotional Clippers fan over here. Anyone outside the LAC fanbase knows Blake is overrated. I haven't seen him improve much since his rookie year. He's nothing but a dunker who has no go to move other than lobs. I never mentioned anything about sacrifice. I'm just saying Blake Griffin is one of those players who very likely won't win a ring because of the fact that he hasn't shown much improvement. Just like Melo, Deron, or Joe, none of these players have stepped up at any point in their career and carried their team. Players like Kobe, Durant, James, Wade, Duncan - all of them step up. Blake Griffin does not.

You said it was about sacrificing for the team, now it's about his talent and being overrated? Good job bandwagon fan.

Cracka2HI!
07-01-2013, 06:06 PM
Bad thread. Every player deserves to make max dollars if they earn it. CP3 and Howard both did. If there was a clear oppurtunity to team up like they did in Miami maybe they would have. That didn't exist for them. They have every right to take the max. Doesn't mean they don't want to win. Despite the fact they play a sport it is still their job. Their #1 priority is to make money.

IKnowHoops
07-01-2013, 11:22 PM
Yes :laugh2:

Wow, I didn't think that guy could let loose like that, especially in front of millions. I view pop a lil different now. "He's not a machine, he's a man."

kblo247
07-01-2013, 11:38 PM
When has CP ever said he wanted to win a title? He was always taking money and long term security with his body missing part of a meniscus, his need of limited minutes, and never having played a full season before. Likewise everyone with common sense knows he can't be your best guy and win a title, hell he can't get you to the conference finals. And likewise for all the **** NOLA gets he asked for Peja and Tyson which ****ed their cap

KnickaBocka.44
07-01-2013, 11:45 PM
You said it was about sacrificing for the team, now it's about his talent and being overrated? Good job bandwagon fan.

His point is that Blake isn't as good as you try to make it seem and he had no choice but to defer to a clearly superior player in CP3. Blake is not a superstar.