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View Full Version : 76ers trade Jrue Holiday to New Orleans for Noel and a 2014 first



B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-27-2013, 08:22 PM
Via Woj.

chicagocubsfan
06-27-2013, 08:22 PM
Damn huge trade.

astonmartin10
06-27-2013, 08:23 PM
Wowww

Killerjug
06-27-2013, 08:24 PM
VERY nice for the pelicans

ewmania
06-27-2013, 08:26 PM
wowwwww

chicagocubsfan
06-27-2013, 08:26 PM
Just confirmed not Holiday.


Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 3m
Correction: New Orleans sends a 2014 1st round pick to Philadelphia in the deal.

LTBaByyy
06-27-2013, 08:29 PM
What?!?!?!?!?!?

Kyben36
06-27-2013, 08:29 PM
looks like the 76ers are going to tank. With 2 2014 picks, Noel out most of the year, and them trading away their best player, they are looking hard at Wiggins

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:30 PM
If this is accurate I am so mad my Cavs couldn't trade #1. Even if they made that trade and then flipped Holiday, they could have got better value than Bennett.

GiantsSwaGG
06-27-2013, 08:31 PM
Wtf?

FlakeyFool
06-27-2013, 08:32 PM
Wtf

29$JerZ
06-27-2013, 08:33 PM
Philly is high.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:33 PM
I wonder if Philly realizes NO probably would have traded Noel straight up for Holiday even without the '14 1st rounder?

Giannis94
06-27-2013, 08:34 PM
Hmmm. I don't know if either wins this trade, but Ill go the 76ers. I want to see the protections first.

Knick_Fever
06-27-2013, 08:34 PM
Just confirmed not Holiday.

They get Holiday. The correction was for the pick.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 08:35 PM
Philly just committed highway robbery if Vasquez is included.

VicTheWizard
06-27-2013, 08:35 PM
I wonder how the 76ers fans are feeling right now

Knick_Fever
06-27-2013, 08:35 PM
This is a crack move for the sixes, who will run point now?

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:36 PM
Hmmm. I don't know if either wins this trade, but Ill go the 76ers. I want to see the protections first.

It said on ESPN it is protected only 1-3.

raiderposting
06-27-2013, 08:38 PM
I still think the sixers got raped because now I can see the hornets..I mean pelicans finishing as a top 10 team in the west. Meaning most likely it won't be a top ten pick. Holiday was on the verge of stardom.

La11
06-27-2013, 08:39 PM
If I was a 76ers fan. I'm loving this move! I doubt they sign Andrew Bynum now which is a good thing. They are rebuilding and will have 2 lottery picks next season. No way Pelicans make playoffs but maybe just at the outside.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:39 PM
Like this for both teams. Pelicans get a all star pg to put with davis creating a nice core for the future and something to sell to the city of New Orleans after the name change.
For phili, they will more than Likely get wiggens next year to put with Noel creating a nice core there.

No team is more than likely getting Wiggins. The worst team only has a 25% chance of getting the #1 pick, and that doesn't even happen most often.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 08:39 PM
Jrue has palyed for for years and his TS percentage is 496 (career 508), high turnover rate, and an average play making ability.


Jrue Holiday is not good. He's one of the most overrated PG's in the league.

Sixers getting Noel and another pick means they just ripped off the Hornets.

knicksfan42
06-27-2013, 08:39 PM
Holiday

Gordon

Aminu

Anderson

Davis

Pelican's future looks very bright.

La11
06-27-2013, 08:40 PM
I still think the sixers got raped because now I can see the hornets..I mean pelicans finishing as a top 10 team in the west. Meaning most likely it won't be a top ten pick. Holiday was on the verge of stardom.

Holiday is good but, I doubt he would put them over the top in the West. If they are in the East, then they are playoff bound.

Crackadalic
06-27-2013, 08:41 PM
The tanking has begun for wiggins

Teeboy1487
06-27-2013, 08:41 PM
I can't believe Jrue Holiday was traded. WTH Philly?

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 08:41 PM
I am not sure why people like Jrue Holiday so much when he is god awful.

RiceOnTheRun
06-27-2013, 08:42 PM
Philly must have something for injured big men. If this move tanks, they're gonna look like fools.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 08:42 PM
Noel + Pelicans pick next year > Jrue Holiday.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:43 PM
I misread this thread thinking it said Noel for Holiday and '14 1st rounder. Or maybe the thread title got changed?

Didn't realize the pick was going to Philly.

TheIlladelph16
06-27-2013, 08:45 PM
I immediately flipped **** when I thought we traded a pick too. Great move by the Sixers. I hate giving up Jrue, but we now have two lottery picks from this year and two potential top 5 draft picks next year.

We are suddenly in the Wiggins sweepstakes!

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:46 PM
OK...I'm not crazy:


20:24, 27th Jun 2013
B'sCeltsPatsSox
Action: Thread title (original '76ers trade Jrue Holiday and a 2014 first to New Orleans for Noel') changed

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 08:47 PM
I immediately flipped **** when I thought we traded a pick too. Great move by the Sixers. I hate giving up Jrue, but we now have two lottery picks from this year and two potential top 5 draft picks next year.

We are suddenly in the Wiggins sweepstakes!

And you have Noels.

This is a great move by the Sixers.

jrm2054
06-27-2013, 08:48 PM
Still not a huge fan of it but the pick next year makes it not as bad

goingfor28
06-27-2013, 08:49 PM
Holiday

Gordon

Aminu

Anderson

Davis

Pelican's future looks very bright.

AFA is a UFA

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:49 PM
I immediately flipped **** when I thought we traded a pick too. Great move by the Sixers. I hate giving up Jrue, but we now have two lottery picks from this year and two potential top 5 draft picks next year.

We are suddenly in the Wiggins sweepstakes!
I actually think I like that trade now for Philly.

They got 2 lottery picks this year, likely two next year. That's the fastest way to rebuild. Although, I was not high on MCW. He can't shoot and I feel like that's a death sentence for a PG. Plus they should have cap space since most of their top players will all be on rookie contracts and can add a few vets next to those 4 kids. They probably could trade Turner for a mid-1st round pick in this or next year's draft as well if they really want to tank and just grab youngsters and clear cap space.

*Silver&Black*
06-27-2013, 08:50 PM
Williams, Noel and possible 2 lottery picks next year for Sixers to rebuild with.

pebloemer
06-27-2013, 08:52 PM
looks like the 76ers are going to tank. With 2 2014 picks, Noel out most of the year, and them trading away their best player, they are looking hard at Wiggins

That's my take too.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:53 PM
And you have Noels.

This is a great move by the Sixers.

Long term, it is the right move.

If you are a fan of that team, that is difficult to see happen. Because this team is now not going to compete for at least 3-4 years, or longer. Noel and MCW are so skinny and need to mature to become starters. It's going to be trying times for a few years.

Believe me, I know as a Cavs fan.

Dade County
06-27-2013, 08:54 PM
76ers are in full rebuild mode...

I wonder who else they move.

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 08:55 PM
If I'm the Pelicans and I believe undersized SG Eric Gordon is going to be one of the centerpieces of my franchise than this deal makes perfect sense. You need a PG who can guard SG's and Jrue gives them exactly that and more. I think that's a very talented backcourt and Davis is clearly legit. They are only one piece away from being a legit playoff team.

HouRealCoach
06-27-2013, 08:56 PM
Pelicans better be good next year...

More-Than-Most
06-27-2013, 08:57 PM
I love Holiday but we got a ****ing steal. We got a huge return and I said in the draft thread when the pelicans drafted noel that its a steal for any team for him falling the way he did. I love it. Not we can suck and get high high picks in a deeper draft next year

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:58 PM
If I'm the Pelicans and I believe undersized SG Eric Gordon is going to be one of the centerpieces of my franchise than this deal makes perfect sense. You need a PG who can guard SG's and Jrue gives them exactly that and more. I think that's a very talented backcourt and Davis is clearly legit. They are only one piece away from being a legit playoff team.

They need an upgrade at SF and then just to improve the bench/depth.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 08:58 PM
If I'm the Pelicans and I believe undersized SG Eric Gordon is going to be one of the centerpieces of my franchise than this deal makes perfect sense. You need a PG who can guard SG's and Jrue gives them exactly that and more. I think that's a very talented backcourt and Davis is clearly legit. They are only one piece away from being a legit playoff team.

They need an upgrade at SF and then just to improve the bench/depth.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 09:01 PM
Jrue's metric stats got worse three years in a row.

WS/48 going from .094, to .092, to .055.

Inefficient scorer, average player maker, bad defense. Sixers made me believers in what they are doing again.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-27-2013, 09:04 PM
What about Vasquez?

More-Than-Most
06-27-2013, 09:10 PM
:dance:

Finally we are not stuck in between. Tank and get back a ton... The future is bright.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 09:13 PM
Jrue's metric stats got worse three years in a row.

WS/48 going from .094, to .092, to .055.

Inefficient scorer, average player maker, bad defense. Sixers made me believers in what they are doing again.

Last year they also lost Iggy and didn't get anything out of it at all, since Bynum didn't play even one minute. That's going to cause most of the player's on that team to have their efficiency decrease. With that being said, he's a solid starting PG. I don't think he's truly an All-Star, but he's in that tier right beneath. There's a pretty good chance none of the PG's in this draft ever eclipse him, or that Noel has as productive a career as him.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 09:15 PM
What about Vasquez?

He's a F/A. He's probably looking for $6-8million per yr and I don't blame them at all for not wanting to pay him that. If he's making more than $4-5 million per year your team is not going to have a healthy cap situation.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 09:16 PM
I think there is a good chance that he never becomes a good guard. He will always put up good traditional numbers and bad metric stats.

He's that kind of player.

JDink24
06-27-2013, 09:20 PM
Jrue's wicked young and already has a good bit of experience on the most important position on the court. Sky's the limit for him. That said he's the only real chip the Sixers had and they did the most with it I feel. Next years draft is suppose to be as deep as its been in 10 years and they could potentially have two lotto picks. If they hit the jackpot and get Wiggins along with Noel sprinkle in some cap room and suddenly they might have something. At least it seems as though they might finally have a plan :sigh:

Mcdoh
06-27-2013, 09:21 PM
i thought its really strange for them to pick noel while having davis also in the roster.. so this is the reason why they picked noel..

shep33
06-27-2013, 09:27 PM
I think this is stupid for Philly. Holiday is awesome. He needs some talent around him.

sep11ie
06-27-2013, 09:30 PM
Wow, I don't understand Philly these days.

D-Leethal
06-27-2013, 09:30 PM
Jrue's metric stats got worse three years in a row.

WS/48 going from .094, to .092, to .055.

Inefficient scorer, average player maker, bad defense. Sixers made me believers in what they are doing again.

What else got worse 3 years in a row? His teammates. What else happened as a result? He was the focus of every team's defense. Get your head out of the stat sheet and watch some basketball for once.

D-Leethal
06-27-2013, 09:31 PM
Its quite obvious Philly is going ALL IN for next years draft and tanking as hard as they can to get there.

More-Than-Most
06-27-2013, 09:32 PM
I think this is stupid for Philly. Holiday is awesome. He needs some talent around him.

That is why this is genius. What talent could we have gotten that would have put us over the top any time soon? We waited so long and were always stuck in the middle of the pack. Holiday has very good upside but who knows what he will turn into. We now can suck for 2 lottery picks next year in a superstar deep draft. On top of that we got Noel and will have a ton of cap room down the line.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 09:32 PM
I think there is a good chance that he never becomes a good guard. He will always put up good traditional numbers and bad metric stats.

He's that kind of player.

Well, he's set up pretty good in NO. So if he can't do it there he isn't going to anywhere. With Anderson's 3 pt shot and Davis's good post and midrange game he has players around him that can help carry the load. If Gordon is healthy that is a bonus. Unfortunately, I'm not sure you can count on much out of him right now, until he proves otherwise.

More-Than-Most
06-27-2013, 09:34 PM
What else got worse 3 years in a row? His teammates. What else happened as a result? He was the focus of every team's defense. Get your head out of the stat sheet and watch some basketball for once.

Actually though there is some truth to this you using the watch basketball stuff will help add weight to his point. Holiday was a turnover machine last year and was taking more and more bad shots as time went on. Great upside but he had a hot start to the season and started to fade fast. Statistics tell a great story of what he is.

shep33
06-27-2013, 09:34 PM
That is why this is genius. What talent could we have gotten that would have put us over the top any time soon? We waited so long and were always stuck in the middle of the pack. Holiday has very good upside but who knows what he will turn into. We now can suck for 2 lottery picks next year in a superstar deep draft. On top of that we got Noel and will have a ton of cap room down the line.

I guess so, but it's just so tough to find a quality pg in a pg driven league these days. But I guess they can tank and get Wiggins... who is probably worth it.

Never thought about from that perspective, but it does make sense I guess. Hopefully they get Wiggins or Parker or Smart, etc.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 09:35 PM
Its quite obvious Philly is going ALL IN for next years draft and tanking as hard as they can to get there.

At least they have a plan. Better than being like Milwaukee is now and Houston was for so many years before acquiring Harden.

More-Than-Most
06-27-2013, 09:35 PM
Nobody can say Holiday is not a great piece... He is young with very good upside period.

AsfanSince99
06-27-2013, 09:35 PM
Holiday

Gordon

Aminu

Anderson

Davis

Pelican's future looks very bright.

Only on paper.

Plus, I love this trade. We weren't going anywhere w Jrue, so why not shake things up. Next year, we're all in on the Wiggins sweepstakes. Our future's looking good!

More-Than-Most
06-27-2013, 09:35 PM
I guess so, but it's just so tough to find a quality pg in a pg driven league these days. But I guess they can tank and get Wiggins... who is probably worth it.

Never thought about from that perspective, but it does make sense I guess. Hopefully they get Wiggins or Parker or Smart, etc.

This also gives us the chance to use turner how he should be used.

More-Than-Most
06-27-2013, 09:36 PM
At least they have a plan. Better than being like Milwaukee is now and Houston was for so many years before acquiring Harden.

We were the same way those teams were from like 02 on... It was hell. We were always just about good enough to make the playoffs but never a real contender and refused to suck like the thunder did or the cavs did for lebron. We now are finally doing the tank stuff.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-27-2013, 09:41 PM
Risky move for Philly.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 09:45 PM
We were the same way those teams were from like 02 on... It was hell. We were always just about good enough to make the playoffs but never a real contender and refused to suck like the thunder did or the cavs did for lebron. We now are finally doing the tank stuff.

And now the new leadership has a legit plan. You have to have 1-2 superstars to win in this league. If you can't draw a F/A (I know they thought they did with Brand) then you have to acquire them via the draft. The best chance of that happening is by acquiring as many lottery picks as possible.

bholly
06-27-2013, 09:51 PM
Loooove this move. Great draft day for us so far.

D-Leethal
06-27-2013, 10:00 PM
Actually though there is some truth to this you using the watch basketball stuff will help add weight to his point. Holiday was a turnover machine last year and was taking more and more bad shots as time went on. Great upside but he had a hot start to the season and started to fade fast. Statistics tell a great story of what he is.

Thats to be expected when your way overmatched as a #1 option on a nightly basis, no?

FYL_McVeezy
06-27-2013, 10:02 PM
Edit: meant for another thread

JeffG20
06-27-2013, 10:10 PM
One those rare trades where i think both teams benefited. We have tons of youth on the team. Not having that pick doesnt bother me. Needed a vet in there

MagicBucsSox
06-27-2013, 10:24 PM
Lmao it's a dumb trade because Holiday on the hornets is a fringe 7-8 seed lmao. No ones even seen Wiggins vs real American competition yet. Lmao you could've traded all but jrue to tank. That hornets pick will be in the 10-14 area lmao. Damn we could've gotten jrue for the 2nd pick wth

MagicBucsSox
06-27-2013, 10:26 PM
As if Philly didn't didn't just experience Center's with bad knees

bholly
06-27-2013, 10:30 PM
One those rare trades where i think both teams benefited. We have tons of youth on the team. Not having that pick doesnt bother me. Needed a vet in there

:cheers:

RipCity32
06-27-2013, 10:33 PM
I dont think I could make this trade If I were the Sixers.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 10:34 PM
Thats to be expected when your way overmatched as a #1 option on a nightly basis, no?

I would agree with that. I guess the question is what option is he for NO? This obviously depends on Eric Gordon. If Gordon is never the same or injured again then he might be overmatched with NO too, unless Davis can take a giant step forward as an offensive player.

Alayla
06-27-2013, 10:54 PM
Philly fans have no idea what we just lost nice job new ordlens

D-Leethal
06-27-2013, 10:59 PM
I would agree with that. I guess the question is what option is he for NO? This obviously depends on Eric Gordon. If Gordon is never the same or injured again then he might be overmatched with NO too, unless Davis can take a giant step forward as an offensive player.

I think at least there he has some other creators who can alleviate pressure that way. Having Vasquez and Gordon is much different than being surrounded by pretty much strictly catch and shoot guys and Evan Turner.

IndiansFan337
06-27-2013, 11:07 PM
I think at least there he has some other creators who can alleviate pressure that way. Having Vasquez and Gordon is much different than being surrounded by pretty much strictly catch and shoot guys and Evan Turner.

Vasquez is a F/A, and I don't expect them to re sign him after this trade.

FriedTofuz
06-27-2013, 11:08 PM
Sixers are a bunch of tankers, and everyone knows the NBA is rigged so, assuming the raptors are lottery teams for the 5th year in a row, they should be given wiggins, that would make a ton a money with marketing and news and such for the nba and expansion to canada basketball. Sixers are so disorganized with what they wanna do so they just tank,smh

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-27-2013, 11:14 PM
I guess the sixers didn't want to risk bringing bynum back with his knee concerns and all so they went with Noel ..... wait wtf? Lol

2 first next year though is siiiick for Philly though

Young2Kinsler
06-27-2013, 11:26 PM
Holiday isn't worth the money he has left on his deal. This is a STEAL for Philly.

Cracka2HI!
06-27-2013, 11:28 PM
Don't like this for the Sixers at all. They just traded their best player and got a guy a foot enough taller than me who weighs the same. I'm sorry but a 200 lb Center aint gonna cut it. Oh yea he's hurt too.

SeoulBeatz
06-27-2013, 11:47 PM
Don't like this for the Sixers at all. They just traded their best player and got a guy a foot enough taller than me who weighs the same. I'm sorry but a 200 lb Center aint gonna cut it. Oh yea he's hurt too.

As a diehard Jrue fan, this trade was tough to swallow. Yes he has his turnover issues, but he's a great scorer and pretty good passer/defender all at the age of 22 whilebeing one of the biggest point guards in the league at 6'4.

Initially I was stunned and pissed.

But once I heard we get the Pelicans 1st next year (albeit 1-3 protected), all was forgiven.

The Sixers are going to be horrible next year... that's a given.

You're looking at a starting 5 of

Michael Carter-Williams
Evan Turner
Dorrell Wright
Thaddeus Young or Arnett Moultrie
Noel

That's a bottom 3 seed if I've ever seen one.

But by the (very deep) 2014 draft, we'll have two potential top 10 picks and enough capspace to sign 2 max free agents.

There's so many hypotheticals but this was a bold/straight-tanking maneuver that Sixers fans have been wanting for years. Little did we know that we'd have to give up our favorite player in order to get there, but there's so much potential in this move that it's hard not to get excited about the future. Better than keeping Jrue, being mediocre again, and missing out on one of the best drafts in recent memory.

Sadds The Gr8
06-27-2013, 11:52 PM
Tank for Wiggins.

Young2Kinsler
06-27-2013, 11:59 PM
People over rate Holiday on here because he could score points on a mediocre team

Swashcuff
06-28-2013, 12:02 AM
Can't judge this trade accurately until all the pieces unravel and we see how our draft picks turn out, as it stands right now its an absolute RAPE in favour of the Pelicans. Say what you want about Jrue's efficiency (or lack there of) and turnover issues dude has massive potential and is still crazy young. Noel can very well be the best player of this draft or he could be the next Andrew Bynum, we don't know but until we do I'm going to say that we got raped and aint nothing changing that.

Cracka2HI!
06-28-2013, 12:03 AM
As a diehard Jrue fan, this trade was tough to swallow. Yes he has his turnover issues, but he's a great scorer and pretty good passer/defender all at the age of 22 whilebeing one of the biggest point guards in the league at 6'4.

Initially I was stunned and pissed.

But once I heard we get the Pelicans 1st next year (albeit 1-3 protected), all was forgiven.

The Sixers are going to be horrible next year... that's a given.

You're looking at a starting 5 of

Michael Carter-Williams
Evan Turner
Dorrell Wright
Thaddeus Young or Arnett Moultrie
Noel

That's a bottom 3 seed if I've ever seen one.

But by the (very deep) 2014 draft, we'll have two potential top 10 picks and enough capspace to sign 2 max free agents.

There's so many hypotheticals but this was a bold/straight-tanking maneuver that Sixers fans have been wanting for years. Little did we know that we'd have to give up our favorite player in order to get there, but there's so much potential in this move that it's hard not to get excited about the future. Better than keeping Jrue, being mediocre again, and missing out on one of the best drafts in recent memory.
I don't disagree with that, but IMO you can't trade your best player when he's 22 and you're rebuilding. You rebuilding with a guy like that. They should have 2 lottery picks next year but New Orleans is going to be a hell of a lot better with Jrue. It could end up being a home run if they get Liggins. If they don't I can't see this turning out good for them. Next years draft is good but outside of Liggins is anyone guaranteed to be as good as Jrue? What if the Sixers terrible roster has heart and somehow gels with a coach and they win 35 games or something? That would be a disaster. This is a sim league type move in real life.

Swashcuff
06-28-2013, 12:04 AM
People over rate Holiday on here because he could score points on a mediocre team

Nope people who don't understand Holiday's value to that mediocre team underrate him, after Westbrook he accounted for more points and a greater percentage of his teams points through his scoring and assists than any other PG in the NBA last season while being his team's best defensive player. He became the leader, #1 distributor, #1 scorer and defensive anchor all in the space of one season. With all that off his shoulders in NO watch him flourish.

Swashcuff
06-28-2013, 12:06 AM
I don't disagree with that, but IMO you can't trade your best player when he's 22 and you're rebuilding. You rebuilding with a guy like that. They should have 2 lottery picks next year but New Orleans is going to be a hell of a lot better with Jrue. It could end up being a home run if they get Liggins. If they don't I can't see this turning out good for them. Next years draft is good but outside of Liggins is anyone guaranteed to be as good as Jrue? What if the Sixers terrible roster has heart and somehow gels with a coach and they win 35 games or something? That would be a disaster. This is a sim league type move in real life.

I Love Jrue but I'd trade him for a player who doesn't have major injury concerns and a favourable upside. All we can hope for now is that Evan Turner can improve his game while the team does as badly as possible for us to get the #1 pick. Its great and all to have assets stockpiled but if those assets don't materialize (as Evan is yet to do) we're going to suck for many more years than we just did.

SeoulBeatz
06-28-2013, 12:10 AM
I don't disagree with that, but IMO you can't trade your best player when he's 22 and you're rebuilding. You rebuilding with a guy like that. They should have 2 lottery picks next year but New Orleans is going to be a hell of a lot better with Jrue. It could end up being a home run if they get Liggins. If they don't I can't see this turning out good for them. Next years draft is good but outside of Liggins is anyone guaranteed to be as good as Jrue? What if the Sixers terrible roster has heart and somehow gels with a coach and they win 35 games or something? That would be a disaster. This is a sim league type move in real life.

No doubt, but I dunno, landing a guy who many projected as the #1 Pick in Noel + Michael Carter Williams + 2 2014 first rounders/3 2nd rounders, $40 mill in cap space... I'm alright with that.

HeaTxRipZz
06-28-2013, 12:39 AM
Picking up Nerlens Noel wasn't a bad move at all but they will need a PG going forward for damn sure

koreancabbage
06-28-2013, 12:41 AM
so Philly won this trade? they get Noels and a 2014 pick.

solid.

Cracka2HI!
06-28-2013, 12:44 AM
I Love Jrue but I'd trade him for a player who doesn't have major injury concerns and a favourable upside. All we can hope for now is that Evan Turner can improve his game while the team does as badly as possible for us to get the #1 pick. Its great and all to have assets stockpiled but if those assets don't materialize (as Evan is yet to do) we're going to suck for many more years than we just did.


No doubt, but I dunno, landing a guy who many projected as the #1 Pick in Noel + Michael Carter Williams + 2 2014 first rounders/3 2nd rounders, $40 mill in cap space... I'm alright with that.

No doubt! Props to you guys for having faith in the move. Honestly I don't ever watch Jrue play so I'm not sure exactly what you are losing. I could easily be dead wrong.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 12:44 AM
Anyone who thinks Jrue is a good player needs to look at his stats. Vasquez by far outperformed him. The Hornets are dumb for this trade. They will be a bad team with a bad player on a sizeable contract.

Did the Sixers make out like bandits? Yes.

HeaTxRipZz
06-28-2013, 12:46 AM
I honestly Don't get why the Pelicans traded Noel. I had been saying since mid season if they got #1 pick and got Noel next to Anthony Davis they would be NICE! He slips to 7 and they trade him -_-

Swashcuff
06-28-2013, 01:02 AM
Anyone who thinks Jrue is a good player needs to look at his stats. Vasquez by far outperformed him. The Hornets are dumb for this trade. They will be a bad team with a bad player on a sizeable contract.

Did the Sixers make out like bandits? Yes.

Didn't I already obliterate you in a statistical argument about Jrue Holiday already?

You have NO understanding on Jrue Holiday's game, importance or statistical production (on both ends of the floor). Why are you still here spewing an anti Jrue agenda?

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 01:10 AM
Didn't I already obliterate you in a statistical argument about Jrue Holiday already?

You have NO understanding on Jrue Holiday's game, importance or statistical production (on both ends of the floor). Why are you still here spewing an anti Jrue agenda?

No, you didn't. His stats are anemic. It's a fact. And his stats are more worrisome than that. He had the biggest drop in the league when facing top 10 ten defenses. His stats dropped 9 percent. They are bad, really bad.

I remember you arguing that his really awful stats that only get that much worse when you go into them aren't that bad because the team is bad. But when he had a good team, his stats were still awful (better than now, but still really ******.)

And then you probably smuggly thought "Yeah, he sucked, but he is the best player on a really bad team, which means he somehow doesn't suck."

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 01:14 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/holidjr01.html

Anyone want to take a gander at his stats and try to come up with a reasonable argument that he's not god awful?

AI
06-28-2013, 01:15 AM
Philly got raped.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 01:18 AM
Philly got raped.

If you are absolutely crazy. They gave up Jrue. Where do you think he ranks among guards? Where do you think he will end up being placed among guards. He's not ranked very high at all given his productions and his is ceiling as high as some of the people ahead of him already? Nope.

Sixers got a lottery pick in the deepest draft in decades, hell, they get two, and someone who was only slightly less effective than Anthony Davis in college.

IndyRealist
06-28-2013, 01:19 AM
I don't watch the Sixers, but from what I gather Jrue puts up big numbers because he gets a ton of shots, not because he's good at them. I think the Sixers won this hands down, regardless of protection on the pick, unless Noel's injury is like Oden's.

Alayla
06-28-2013, 01:28 AM
Anyone who thinks Jrue is a good player needs to look at his stats. Vasquez by far outperformed him. The Hornets are dumb for this trade. They will be a bad team with a bad player on a sizeable contract.

Did the Sixers make out like bandits? Yes.

another one of these people -_-

Alayla
06-28-2013, 01:29 AM
I don't watch the Sixers, but from what I gather Jrue puts up big numbers because he gets a ton of shots, not because he's good at them. I think the Sixers won this hands down, regardless of protection on the pick, unless Noel's injury is like Oden's.

It shows

Alayla
06-28-2013, 01:30 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/holidjr01.html

Anyone want to take a gander at his stats and try to come up with a reasonable argument that he's not god awful?

Mabye becuase he was the only good player on his team and he got GASSED atfer the allstar break take a look at his stats before it why dont you,

Alayla
06-28-2013, 01:32 AM
Can't judge this trade accurately until all the pieces unravel and we see how our draft picks turn out, as it stands right now its an absolute RAPE in favour of the Pelicans. Say what you want about Jrue's efficiency (or lack there of) and turnover issues dude has massive potential and is still crazy young. Noel can very well be the best player of this draft or he could be the next Andrew Bynum, we don't know but until we do I'm going to say that we got raped and aint nothing changing that.

I sware you must be the only other sixers fan in the world who argees with me.

mballa22191
06-28-2013, 01:34 AM
Holiday is locked up on cap friendly deal also.. What a trade for NO. They will get a shot at a 7/8 seed. if they barely miss it will be because of injury.. if they win the loto they get the pick back so no harm

Young2Kinsler
06-28-2013, 01:34 AM
Picking up Nerlens Noel wasn't a bad move at all but they will need a PG going forward for damn sure

They drafted a good PG this year.

IversonIsKrazy
06-28-2013, 01:37 AM
Is the 2014 New Orleans first pick protected, if not I like Sixers chances. Imagine how funny it would be if Noel turned out to be the best player of this draft AND they get Wiggins next year lol

Alayla
06-28-2013, 01:38 AM
Is the 2014 New Orleans first pick protected, if not I like Sixers chances. Imagine how funny it would be if Noel turned out to be the best player of this draft AND they get Wiggins next year lol

top 3 protected

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 01:40 AM
Mabye becuase he was the only good player on his team and he got GASSED atfer the allstar break take a look at his stats before it why dont you,

Heat map shows awful shot selection.

And I already addressed the bad teammate thing. He put up awful stats with a good team around him.

And there are tons of young guards with bad teammates who are generally efficient. You don't get a pass for being a bad basketball player on a bad team. It's the same kind of ******** Warrior fans tried to use to defend Monta Ellis.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 01:41 AM
Sixer fans should be really happy about this trade. Two top picks in a deep draft with someone that only didn't go #1 because of injury concerns.

IndyRealist
06-28-2013, 01:42 AM
It shows

How insightful. Everything that's wrong with PSD is pretty much summed up in your series of posts. They add absolutely nothing to the conversation, they're mindless hero worship.

The Sixers got THE PROJECTED #1 PICK and another 1st next year, while getting out from under a significant amount of salary. If Holiday doesn't get you a championship, then you sell high. A rebuilding team doesn't need to be tied into that much salary.

IndyRealist
06-28-2013, 01:43 AM
top 3 protected

If it is only top 3 protected, how can you not LOVE this trade?

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 01:45 AM
How insightful. Everything that's wrong with PSD is pretty much summed up in your series of posts. They add absolutely nothing to the conversation, they're mindless hero worship.

The Sixers got THE PROJECTED #1 PICK and another 1st next year, while getting out from under a significant amount of salary. If Holiday doesn't get you a championship, then you sell high. A rebuilding team doesn't need to be tied into that much salary.


See, it's great to see on other sites people only use deep statistical analysis. In nfl sites I never see people say the kind of ******** you see on nba forums.

NBA forums love to ignore stats (which are extremely accurate thanks to the nature of the sport) because they like to watch the player. Not because they contribute to winning basketball.

Jrue has never been efficient and he's gotten worse every year since his sophomore year.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 01:45 AM
If it is only top 3 protected, how can you not LOVE this trade?

Because he is impressed by hallow traditional statistics.

More-Than-Most
06-28-2013, 01:50 AM
top 3 protected

we will likely be terrible and will have our own lottery pick... On top of the pelicans lottery pick and Noel... This trade excites me as long as we tank

If all goes right we could walk away with what should have been the number 1 pick this year in Noel and wiggins next year on top of having a another top pick in a sick draft.

SMH!
06-28-2013, 01:52 AM
Loving this trade for both teams. Holiday is a humble young guy in his prime. For sixers, we get noel, two possible lottery picks next year in the deep draft. #TankForWiggins right? lol

blastmasta26
06-28-2013, 01:57 AM
Will have to wait and see how Noel turns out to truly evaluate this trade, but as it stands I like the decision to go all out into tank/rebuild mode since they were headed for mediocrity.

R. Johnson#3
06-28-2013, 01:59 AM
I don't understand this. Why would Philly do this?

BKLYNpigeon
06-28-2013, 02:05 AM
I don't understand this. Why would Philly do this?


because they want to rebuild. they lost out on Bynum and Jrue cant lead that team all by himself.

Philly can tank next season and have two 1st round lottery picks in a very good draft in 2014. And! a shot at Andrew Wiggins.

KnickaBocka.44
06-28-2013, 02:17 AM
Not sure what this means for Vasquez. But if Gordon can stay healthy this gives NO one of the best young backcourts in the league, and with Anthony Davis developing along with anyone they can add in FA, I wouldn't count on the picks they are sending to Philly in the future being too high.

I also think MCW is probably the most overrated player in the draft so all in all, this is a loss for the 6ers.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 02:19 AM
Anyone who thinks the sixers lost this trade are prisoners of the moment. The Sixers are so well built for the future now it's crazy.

Sixers and Celtics sill own this division as soon as the Knicks and Nets age.

Raptors are a wild card until I see them do more.

kblo247
06-28-2013, 02:35 AM
Not sure what this means for Vasquez. But if Gordon can stay healthy this gives NO one of the best young backcourts in the league, and with Anthony Davis developing along with anyone they can add in FA, I wouldn't count on the picks they are sending to Philly in the future being too high.

I also think MCW is probably the most overrated player in the draft so all in all, this is a loss for the 6ers.

You could just start them all or let them all finish games .... Holiday, Gordon, Vasquez, Anderson, and Davis

Vasquez has the size, the fundamental skills, and the mindset to be a point forward type.mplus I do think he's better than Aminu

kblo247
06-28-2013, 02:36 AM
Anyone who thinks the sixers lost this trade are prisoners of the moment. The Sixers are so well built for the future now it's crazy.

Sixers and Celtics sill own this division as soon as the Knicks and Nets age.

Raptors are a wild card until I see them do more.

Or the division can just go to **** again and have an under 500 team making the playoffs

AsfanSince99
06-28-2013, 02:46 AM
because they want to rebuild. they lost out on Bynum and Jrue cant lead that team all by himself.

Philly can tank next season and have two 1st round lottery picks in a very good draft in 2014. And! a shot at Andrew Wiggins.

Not to mention, Jrue isn't the type of player like a D.Rose or Westbrook who is untouchable. Like I said before, I love this trade. We are set to rebuild through the draft.

And frankly, I don't see why so many 6er fans dislike this trade? Y'll been clamoring to get out of being a middle of the pack team since AI left, now we do something drastic and have a realistic chance to get some high picks next year, and y'll complaining... smh

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 02:55 AM
Probably in one of the best drafts of the last decade. SO many amazing, franchising changing players. And the sixers get two shots and Noels.

Amazing deal.

KnickaBocka.44
06-28-2013, 02:56 AM
Anyone who thinks the sixers lost this trade are prisoners of the moment. The Sixers are so well built for the future now it's crazy.

Sixers and Celtics sill own this division as soon as the Knicks and Nets age.

Raptors are a wild card until I see them do more.

Hate to break it to you but the Knicks cap is almost clear in 2 years.

KnickaBocka.44
06-28-2013, 02:58 AM
Probably in one of the best drafts of the last decade. SO many amazing, franchising changing players. And the sixers get two shots and Noels.

Amazing deal.

But they only got Noel and 1 1st round pick (that might not be as high as you think) for an All-Star who is only 23. Its not a great deal.

KnickaBocka.44
06-28-2013, 03:00 AM
You could just start them all or let them all finish games .... Holiday, Gordon, Vasquez, Anderson, and Davis

Vasquez has the size, the fundamental skills, and the mindset to be a point forward type.mplus I do think he's better than Aminu

Didn't think of Greivis as a point forward, thats an interesting idea. I think a vet at that spot could do them some good though.

themooseman13
06-28-2013, 03:14 AM
This all depends on how MCW plays, there was absolutely nothing behind 11 that is near his tier as a prospect so it was a no brainier to take him. But for this trade to real work he needs to be the PG of the future. Also as a sixers fan people should know Jrues game slowed down after the all star break.

More-Than-Most
06-28-2013, 03:16 AM
But they only got Noel and 1 1st round pick (that might not be as high as you think) for an All-Star who is only 23. Its not a great deal.

If they keep Holiday we are probably a 30 something win team next year and we end up with a 12-15 pick if we are lucky..... Trading Holiday got us Noel whom was projected as the number 1 overall pick and possibly a lottery pick next year on top of making us bad enough to get the top overall pick from our own pick....That is a huge deal and I am a huge Holiday fan but its a massive steal.

WickedBadMan
06-28-2013, 03:16 AM
Trade will depend on who they get in next years draft - if they suck well enough for Wiggins/Parker was a good move.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 03:16 AM
Hate to break it to you but the Knicks cap is almost clear in 2 years.

How does that mean they will be a good team? That's when the Knicks rebuild starts.

Meangene23
06-28-2013, 04:31 AM
Don't be surprised to see Thad traded. Trading him would make them have more than 50 million in cap room for 2014 offseason, and close to 60 million when hawes contract expires.

70 million when J Rich's expires.

IndyRealist
06-28-2013, 04:32 AM
If they keep Holiday we are probably a 30 something win team next year and we end up with a 12-15 pick if we are lucky..... Trading Holiday got us Noel whom was projected as the number 1 overall pick and possibly a lottery pick next year on top of making us bad enough to get the top overall pick from our own pick....That is a huge deal and I am a huge Holiday fan but its a massive steal.

Yes the scary part of this deal is if the Sixers tank, and NO doesn't. Heck, NO doesn't even have to win games, they just have to lose the lottery. The Sixers end up with Carter Williams, Nerlens Noel, a shot at #1 and #4 in a stacked draft.

sunsfan88
06-28-2013, 05:39 AM
Michael Carter-Williams sucks balls. Guy was the least efficient scorer in the draft according to draft express and can't shoot to save his life.

Philly is gonna regret this trade especially when the Hornets pick either goes in the top 10 or becomes a pick in the 20s.

The Hornets are either gonna boom or bust next season so either way, it won't work out that great for Philly.

They could have rebuild under the 23 year old 2x all star but wow..

Meaze_Gibson
06-28-2013, 05:47 AM
I think jrue holiday is going to flourish with this trade. Watching that 76ers team last year, their tanking ways really put a hit on his production. Both film and statistics show that he is fringe elite defensively and this is without a great shot blocker behind him. He is also one of the leaders at setting up 3 point shots, which will go up even more with gordon and anderson. I think this squad is the 7th seed off defense alone..Once Davis grows and they get a sf. Its showtime!

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 05:57 AM
Michael Carter-Williams sucks balls. Guy was the least efficient scorer in the draft according to draft express and can't shoot to save his life.

Philly is gonna regret this trade especially when the Hornets pick either goes in the top 10 or becomes a pick in the 20s.

The Hornets are either gonna boom or bust next season so either way, it won't work out that great for Philly.

They could have rebuild under the 23 year old 2x all star but wow..

OH AN ALL STAR, HE MUST HAVE BEEN REALLY GOOD.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_advanced.html

Oh wait, he was 31st of all point guards in terms of WS.

Of all players he ranks 155 in WS. WS has a margin of error of 2.74 games in terms of actual teams wins and losses.


Have you guys looked at the guard position? Where would you realistically put Jrue? If you are being honest, it's not pretty.

IndyRealist
06-28-2013, 06:53 AM
Michael Carter-Williams sucks balls. Guy was the least efficient scorer in the draft according to draft express and can't shoot to save his life.

Philly is gonna regret this trade especially when the Hornets pick either goes in the top 10 or becomes a pick in the 20s.

The Hornets are either gonna boom or bust next season so either way, it won't work out that great for Philly.

They could have rebuild under the 23 year old 2x all star but wow..

From DraftExpress:

While Carter-Williams doesn't look great here, this doesn't reveal anything teams don't already know about him. Whoever drafts him will be excited about his size, solid one-on-one ability, athleticism in the open floor, and the player he has the opportunity to become as he begins to work on his two very much improvable weaknesses.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2XVzIg41t
http://www.draftexpress.com

sunsfan88
06-28-2013, 07:15 AM
From DraftExpress:

From draft express also


-This study is not kind to Michael Carter-Williams who ranks as the least efficient scorer in this group at 0.746 points per-possession. His 22.1% overall turnover rate is the second worst among his peers, as is his 0.683 PPP in the half court. Those two stats are representative of the two key areas his scouting report notes he need to make strides in to reach his potential as a pro: his decision-making and perimeter shooting.

Turning the ball over on 28% of his pick and roll possessions, the highest among his peers, ball security was an area of concern for Carter-Williams in the half court last season. Sporting a 3.6 assist to turnover ratio in transition, he's more efficient as a playmaker in the open floor at this point in his career.

Carter-Williams' well documented issues as a shooter cost him here as well, as his 26.2% shooting on pull-up jumpers and 28% shooting off the catch are a major limiting factor on his scoring ability in the half court, resulting in his ranks as the second worst spot-up and 5th worst pick and roll shooter in this group.

Often lauded for his ability to score at the rim, a bit of fishing shows that Carter-Williams shoots a slightly below average 48.8% as a finisher in the half court, though he compensates by shooting nearly 60% at the basket as the ball-handler in transition.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2XVavG2M4
http://www.draftexpress.com

sunsfan88
06-28-2013, 07:17 AM
OH AN ALL STAR, HE MUST HAVE BEEN REALLY GOOD.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_advanced.html

Oh wait, he was 31st of all point guards in terms of WS.

Of all players he ranks 155 in WS. WS has a margin of error of 2.74 games in terms of actual teams wins and losses.


Have you guys looked at the guard position? Where would you realistically put Jrue? If you are being honest, it's not pretty.

He's still better than what Noel and MCW will end up being. Philly better hope to strike good with that Hornets pick but chances are that with Holliday, the Hornets aren't gonna suck so that pick probably will be early teens to late teens.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 07:23 AM
Hornets will most definitely suck. How much depends on the health of Eric Gordon and Davis. They've already downgraded the point guard position though.

PhillyFaninLA
06-28-2013, 08:27 AM
As a Sixers fan I want to say I love Jrue but he is very good, not special. He is not John Stockton or Steve Nash and won't be but he may be an all star for years to come.

Noels is he stays healthy has the potential to be the best shot blocker in the NBA early in his career, he can be in the upper tier or rebounders as well. If he learns to shot better then your talking about a very very good and potentially special player.

Carter-Williams will probably never be Jrue but he will be a solid reliable player that knows how to defend and hit a big shot, so we got a big we despertatly need, a good but not as good point guard to replace Jrue and hopefully we get lucky and the Pelicans aren't terrible but bad so we get there pick.

We also shed Jrue's salary leaving us with the potential for 2 max or near max deals next off season and potentially 2 top 10 picks. Does not sound like a loss to me.

arlubas
06-28-2013, 08:51 AM
Gotta give it to the Sixers. Their decisions have made me laugh real hard ever since last summer and it just gets better. Big ups!

PhillyFaninLA
06-28-2013, 08:59 AM
deleted

DaddyCool
06-28-2013, 09:03 AM
I love Jrue Holiday, but he's a fringe all-star at best. The point guards in the league are so stacked. Only reason why he made it into the all star game this season was because Rose and Rondo were injured. He's above average in a lot of things, but not really elite in any. Good shooter, decent finisher, above average athleticism, good iso defender, mediocre pick and roll defender. He gets all this hype for being a great defender but if you look at Synergy he had one good year defensively (the lockout season) and has been averageish all other times. On a championship contender, he's your 3rd best player. He's maybe a top 35 player in the league as of now which is great but the 76ers weren't going anywhere with that other than into the NBA hell that is mediocrity.

As a 76ers fan, I'm so excited. The 76ers get to suck dick for a year and tank for Wiggins and pick up another 2014 probable lotto pick while picking up two nice pieces in this year's draft. Noel projects to be a Motumbo like player and while I'm the biggest MCW fan, analytics fans love him, unlike drew because of his ability to get the free throw line a lot. (Sidenote: Jrue can't for beans.) With a potential core of MCW, Noel, and two of a combination of Wiggins, Gordon, Smart, Randle, Harrison, Parker, Harrell, Exum, Robinson.

The 76ers now have a plan with smart leadership, which is refreshing, given its incompetent management the past decade, satisfied with mediocrity. Enough to put some butts in the seats but never enough to do anything close to winning a championship. That changed last night.

c.c.
06-28-2013, 09:37 AM
That South West division is stacked, all those teams are capable being at least 5 games above .500. If Dallas strike out in this free agency and the Pelicans make a good move from Gordon, I'd rank them ahead of the Mavericks.

Bravo95
06-28-2013, 10:02 AM
EDIT: Nevermind, didn't catch the details including that 2014 1st rounder. If N.O. loses that pick, Jrue's gonna have to make a big time leap to justify this deal.

nycericanguy
06-28-2013, 10:18 AM
All i hear is Wiggins, Wiggins, Wiggins...

But if that's why you like this trade you are likely to be very disappointed.

NOLA's pick is protected, so PHI has to win the lottery with their own pick... there's probably about a 10% chance of that happening right now...

And MCW was also with PHI's pick... I keep seeing posts like they got him in the trade...

2-ONE-5
06-28-2013, 10:22 AM
well Hinkie and Co. were very quiet during this whole process and hit us with a shocker in Philly. Really really sad to see Jrue go but hes going to be part of something special in NO if they play it right. He is going to fit in perfectly in NO and def boost that defense some. He was an 18/8 all-star on a really bad team and now he gets to play with a lot more talent and I expect him to make the best of it and continue to be one of the assist leaders in the league. Both teams should have a very bright future and it would be awesome to meet in the finals 6 years form now lol

I'm not a fan of Noel but he comes into a good situation where he wont be pressured to rush back on the court or expected to save the franchise. I like MCW even if we had Jrue he was a someone I wanted, he has all the tools to be a very good player with only his jumper needing work and that is possible, maybe even likely.

Not sure if there is a team worse than us for next year so gotta love the odds to land Wiggins, Parker, or Randle or **** maybe 2 of the 3 if all works out perfect (it wont).

THE MTL
06-28-2013, 10:42 AM
Jrue holiday is 22 years old and an allstar already. He's young and someone u build a franchise with, im shocked philly traded him. Ppl get all crazy about lottery picks. You could only hope that lottery picks turn out to be as good as jrue. And hes so young already.

Jeffy25
06-28-2013, 11:26 AM
New Orleans also sent the 76ers a protected 2014 first-round pick and received the Sixers' second-round selection - 42nd overall - in this year's draft, the person told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the trade had not been announced. New Orleans would retain its 2014 first-round selection only if it falls in the top five.

NBA.com

KnickaBocka.44
06-28-2013, 12:07 PM
How does that mean they will be a good team? That's when the Knicks rebuild starts.

Firstly, I never said good. You said they would be old, and I pointed out that no one is signed to a long term contract.

Secondly, you say re-build as if everyone will be gone. They will get to pick and choose who they want to keep around, there won't be a re-build, it will be a "re-tool". The Knicks may not be winning a championship in the next 2 years, but they will be sticking around for a while.

KnickaBocka.44
06-28-2013, 12:13 PM
Hornets will most definitely suck. How much depends on the health of Eric Gordon and Davis. They've already downgraded the point guard position though.

Downgraded PG? LOL your ignorance has risen to new heights with this one.

nycericanguy
06-28-2013, 12:15 PM
Interesting to see what NOLA does with Vasquez... I think they could play together, Jrue is more of a scorer and has the size to play 2 guard.

I think a Vasquez/Jrue backcourt is better than Jrue/always injured, lethargic Gordon

I don't think they'll be that bad really... Davis should be improved, Ryan is a great stretch 4, Jrue brings experience... and they should be able to get a good piece for either Gordon or Vasquez in a trade.

They could be the next GSW.

PhillyFaninLA
06-28-2013, 12:27 PM
All i hear is Wiggins, Wiggins, Wiggins...

But if that's why you like this trade you are likely to be very disappointed.

NOLA's pick is protected, so PHI has to win the lottery with their own pick... there's probably about a 10% chance of that happening right now...

And MCW was also with PHI's pick... I keep seeing posts like they got him in the trade...

You missed the point....in regards to Wiggin people are talking about how bad the Sixers will be and in regards to MCW he is the guy filling in for Jrue, that is what people are saying.

2-ONE-5
06-28-2013, 01:10 PM
Downgraded PG? LOL your ignorance has risen to new heights with this one.

dude is trolling hard in this thread. im fairly sure he has never watched a Sixers game before

kozelkid
06-28-2013, 01:22 PM
Jrue holiday is 22 years old and an allstar already. He's young and someone u build a franchise with, im shocked philly traded him. Ppl get all crazy about lottery picks. You could only hope that lottery picks turn out to be as good as jrue. And hes so young already.

If Jrue freakin' Holiday is your best player, you will NEVER win a championship. Never.

The trade might suck, but it's a risk Philly has to take unless they'd like to spend another decade in NBA hell. That's the sad fact regarding the NBA: unless you're a big market, you likely need to suck to become a contender. Philly finally understands that. What Houston pulled off almost never happens.

MrfadeawayJB
06-28-2013, 01:32 PM
Pelicans on 2K14 fo sho!


Holliday makes them legit, maybe a playoff team

Korman12
06-28-2013, 01:47 PM
If Jrue freakin' Holiday is your best player, you will NEVER win a championship. Never.

The trade might suck, but it's a risk Philly has to take unless they'd like to spend another decade in NBA hell. That's the sad fact regarding the NBA: unless you're a big market, you likely need to suck to become a contender. Philly finally understands that. What Houston pulled off almost never happens.

Exactly. Seeing a team's best player go sucks, especially if he's young and coming off his best year (how often do you see that happen?). But he wasn't a cornerstone player to build around, and people love to attach the All-Star title to him. Yes he was an All-Star, but only in the East without an injured Rose and Rondo and a disappointing Deron Williams in the season's first half.

Regardless, the organization recognizes the prevailing problem and is trying to stop it for the first time in ... I can't actually remember.

I will miss Jrue, no question, and I hope his time in New Orleans is well.

mp3
06-28-2013, 01:49 PM
Since when did PSD become huge Jrue fans?? Good deal for both teams. Sixers can now start a true rebuild. It's funny how people are getting mad and saying the Sixers are tanking. Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom to get to the top or you will stay in at the mediocre level for ever. Majority of Sixers fans like this trade because they actually know the Sixer's situation and how good Jrue really is. I would bet 90% of PSD didn't even see Jrue play this season.

DaddyCool
06-28-2013, 01:55 PM
Wait so if the Hornets get lucky in the lotto and move up into the top 3 does the pick move to 2015 or do the 76ers get nothing?

zn23
06-28-2013, 03:31 PM
Jrue Holiday is overrated and is not an all-star level point guard. He only made the team because D-Rose was injured and because Deron Williams started off the season so badly.

He wouldn't have made it otherwise.

Nerlens Noel is much more valuable and has much bigger upside.

This would be a steal for the Sixers, cause Holiday will struggle big time in New Orleans as one of the top guys.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 03:32 PM
Downgraded PG? LOL your ignorance has risen to new heights with this one.


Vasquez out played Jrue in every tangible and measurable category. It's frankly not close. Too bad the nba forum puts stock in name value.

zn23
06-28-2013, 03:39 PM
Vasquez out played Jrue in every tangible and measurable category. It's frankly not close. Too bad the nba forum puts stock in name value.

I agree, they should consider keeping Noel cause Vasquez had a breakout year last year. Getting Holiday is a big time mistake, he's going to get exposed...

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 03:45 PM
I agree, they should consider keeping Noel cause Vasquez had a breakout year last year. Getting Holiday is a big time mistake, he's going to get exposed...

They then compounded that mistake by giving another pick.

raider_fan
06-28-2013, 04:04 PM
ouch the 76ers just love getting raped in trades huh? first bynum and we all know how that went now they trade for an injured rookie and give up their all star pg :eyebrow:

Westbrook36
06-28-2013, 04:05 PM
Michael Carter-Williams sucks balls. Guy was the least efficient scorer in the draft according to draft express and can't shoot to save his life.

Philly is gonna regret this trade especially when the Hornets pick either goes in the top 10 or becomes a pick in the 20s.

The Hornets are either gonna boom or bust next season so either way, it won't work out that great for Philly.

They could have rebuild under the 23 year old 2x all star but wow..

He's not much of a shooter, but his stroke doesn't look terrible and he has room for improvement. What I do like is his athletic ability and his length as a defender, but because draft express says he can't shoot so he "sucks balls" :laugh2:.

Oh, because the Hornets can't possibly..you know..be pretty decent next season with the addition of Jrue Holiday? I'm expecting anywhere from the 7-12th pick from that lotto selection.

Rebuild with what? Another season where we barely miss the playoffs, followed by another season of exactly the same stuff?

The whole Noel bashing is hilarious, he's 19 years old. I realize he's coming off of an ACL injury, but he's going to get as much time as he needs to heal that up 100% on this team, we certainly won't rush him back. His weight is a major issue to me and to many others, but people act like the kid can't hit the weight room. With a PROFESSIONAL NBA basketball team he's going to have likely two personal trainers and all sorts of help to put on some muscle to bang with his athletic ability down low. Weight also doesn't determine strength either and Dwight Howard compared to when he was drafted to now is a major change in physical build. Offensively if he never turns into much more then a 10-15 point player and brings DPOY type defense or even second team all defense i'll be happy with his production (15 PPG 10-12 RPG 1-2 BPG).

zn23
06-28-2013, 04:07 PM
They then compounded that mistake by giving another pick.

lol at first I thought the Sixers gave up a first round pick plus Jrue Holiday. Now I found out that the Pelicans are infact giving Noel and a first round pick a double mistake.

This is an excellent move for Sixers, a brutal move for the Pelicans who will get an average point guard in return, when they already have a solid player in Vasquez.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 04:07 PM
ouch the 76ers just love getting raped in trades huh? first bynum and we all know how that went now they trade for an injured rookie and give up their all star pg :eyebrow:

It's only a mistake if you don't pay attention during the season.

76ers robbed the Hornets.

Westbrook36
06-28-2013, 04:08 PM
ouch the 76ers just love getting raped in trades huh? first bynum and we all know how that went now they trade for an injured rookie and give up their all star pg :eyebrow:

:laugh2:, No regrets on the Bynum trade. It's amazing that people can't seem to understand a simple notion that it was well worth the risk. Bynum didn't play, his knees are basically shot, but at the time of the deal we were getting the second best center in the NBA. A move that could of potentially turned us into the 4th-5th seed in the East and somewhat of a contender with Jrue as the second option. We didn't want Iggys contract regardless and we needed to either make a splash of a move (Bynum) or rebuild, which we are clearly doing right now.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 04:14 PM
The people who don't like this trade are prisoners of the moment. No foresight. They will be the same people, when the Sixers are kicking *** that will ask "remember when we made fun of the sixers. How crazy that this trade worked out."

2-ONE-5
06-28-2013, 04:15 PM
Vasquez out played Jrue in every tangible and measurable category. It's frankly not close. Too bad the nba forum puts stock in name value.

you are an idiot, you really are. Holidays defense is miles better too. Vasquez did put up similar #'s and wont get a contract like Jrue's yet the Pelicans gave up ther 6th pick and a 2014 (probable lottery pick) for Holiday. But yea they are downgrading...

abe_froman
06-28-2013, 04:20 PM
i have no idea what n.o. was thinking,are they secretly run my mj?

phily did very well

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 04:21 PM
you are an idiot, you really are. Holidays defense is miles better too. Vasquez did put up similar #'s and wont get a contract like Jrue's yet the Pelicans gave up ther 6th pick and a 2014 (probable lottery pick) for Holiday. But yea they are downgrading...

They are absolutely downgrading. At best, you can call it the same exact production if Jrue improves his game by ten percent.

I am not sure stating what they gave up makes Holiday better. But if that's your cup of tea, go ahead.

2-ONE-5
06-28-2013, 05:05 PM
they are in no way shape or form downgrading. you dont know anything about basketball if you honestly beleive that. Clearly the Hornets dont think that considering they gave up a lottery pick in the most coveted draft in the last 11 years. I think the NO front office knows more than you do. Hornets have one hell of a future now.

zn23
06-28-2013, 05:28 PM
they are in no way shape or form downgrading. you dont know anything about basketball if you honestly beleive that. Clearly the Hornets dont think that considering they gave up a lottery pick in the most coveted draft in the last 11 years. I think the NO front office knows more than you do. Hornets have one hell of a future now.

They are downgrading because Jrue is not an all-star level point guard, he's average at best and he put up mediocre numbers on a very bad team that didn't win a lot of games... Yet they are giving away a top 6 pick, a player who many had as the consensus no.1, and a 1st round draft choice in 2014, who could be very valuable cause that draft class has some potential.

I think it was the Sixers who initiated this trade. Clearly they are selling Jrue as an "all-star" point guard to try and get some size on their front court.

The Pelicans are overvaluing him big time, and he will be a disappointment similar to Darren Collison when he went to the Pacers.

2-ONE-5
06-28-2013, 05:36 PM
They are downgrading because Jrue is not an all-star level point guard, he's average at best and he put up mediocre numbers on a very bad team that didn't win a lot of games... Yet they are giving away a top 6 pick, a player who many had as the consensus no.1, and a 1st round draft choice in 2014, who could be very valuable cause that draft class has some potential.

I think it was the Sixers who initiated this trade. Clearly they are selling Jrue as an "all-star" point guard to try and get some size on their front court.

The Pelicans are overvaluing him big time, and he will be a disappointment similar to Darren Collison when he went to the Pacers.

your evaluation skills are realy poor and thats putting it nicely. So he magically wont be good playing with BETTER talent. Whats a point guards best friend? a BIG MAN that he has never had. Having Davis in the middle with shooters like Gordon and Anderson are gonna make Holiday flourish. Scoring prob goes down due to more options but it will become more efficient

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 05:38 PM
your evaluation skills are realy poor and thats putting it nicely. So he magically wont be good playing with BETTER talent. Whats a point guards best friend? a BIG MAN that he has never had. Having Davis in the middle with shooters like Gordon and Anderson are gonna make Holiday flourish. Scoring prob goes down due to more options but it will become more efficient

I won't say you are a bad talent evaluator, you are just a philly fan who grew to love Jrue.

But he was awful every year, and got worse three years in a row.

zn23
06-28-2013, 05:43 PM
your evaluation skills are realy poor and thats putting it nicely. So he magically wont be good playing with BETTER talent. Whats a point guards best friend? a BIG MAN that he has never had. Having Davis in the middle with shooters like Gordon and Anderson are gonna make Holiday flourish. Scoring prob goes down due to more options but it will become more efficient

Better talent?

Going from Philly to New Orleans is far from an upgrade... Anthony Davis was a disappointment last year and he had Greivis Vasquez as his point guard, who is just as good as Jrue Holiday if not better.

Adding Jrue will not be the missing piece of the puzzle for that team, they will just stay the same. Win about 30 games or so and miss the playoffs.

Jrue will put up similar numbers.

PhillyFaninLA
06-28-2013, 05:43 PM
I won't say you are a bad talent evaluator, you are just a philly fan who grew to love Jrue.

But he was awful every year, and got worse three years in a row.

You type well for a blind man....clearly you can't see because if you've watched you'd realize how ridiculous this statement is.

He's gotten better every year and without much help.

Not sure if you believe what you say, are trolling, or ignorant to the game.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 05:46 PM
You type well for a blind man....clearly you can't see because if you've watched you'd realize how ridiculous this statement is.

He's gotten better every year and without much help.

Not sure if you believe what you say, are trolling, or ignorant to the game.


WS/48 Year 2 .094, TS 516
WS/48 Year 3 .092, TS 516
WS/48 Year 4 .055, TS 492

Plus he is a turnover machine now with bad shot selection.

zn23
06-28-2013, 05:49 PM
WS/48 Year 2 .094, TS 516
WS/48 Year 3 .092, TS 516
WS/48 Year 4 .055, TS 492

Plus he is a turnover machine now with bad shot selection.

Yea I was just going to post this... He's average at best.

flea
06-28-2013, 05:52 PM
Great for New Orleans, up in the air for Philly. It reminds me of the Harden trade in that one is potentially getting a top 10 player in the league and the other is getting 2 rolls of the dice. People bash the Thunder now but it was a pretty equal deal at the time, it's not their fault the pick was so far down in this draft. If they had gotten better placement with it they could have taken KCP/McLemore or even Noel and everyone would be calling them geniuses now instead of morons.

The Sixers fans in here saying they hate Holiday's game are just trying to make themselves feel better. Holiday is a lot like another UCLA point guard - Westbrook. Until just a year or so ago he was Westbrick who will never lead a franchise to anything (even when his numbers virtually mirrored Rose's). Now he's probably the best defensive PG in the game (Holiday could have an argument soon) and a very efficient score-first point guard.

Now I'm not saying Holiday will be as good as Westbrook, but they actually had fairly similar age 22 seasons (about the same efficiency, Westbrook scored more and was better assist guy - but look at his team). The great part is Jrue is not "the guy" on the Pelicans too. It's Davis, and his great rookie season was only a glimpse of what he can do.

More-Than-Most
06-28-2013, 05:55 PM
Great for New Orleans, up in the air for Philly. It reminds me of the Harden trade in that one is potentially getting a top 10 player in the league and the other is getting 2 rolls of the dice. People bash the Thunder now but it was a pretty equal deal at the time, it's not their fault the pick was so far down in this draft. If they had gotten better placement with it they could have taken KCP/McLemore or even Noel and everyone would be calling them geniuses now instead of morons.

The Sixers fans in here saying they hate Holiday's game are just trying to make themselves feel better. Holiday is a lot like another UCLA point guard - Westbrook. Until just a year or so ago he was Westbrick who will never lead a franchise to anything (even when his numbers virtually mirrored Rose's). Now he's probably the best defensive PG in the game (Holiday could have an argument soon) and a very efficient score-first point guard.

Now I'm not saying Holiday will be as good as Westbrook, but they actually had fairly similar age 22 seasons (about the same efficiency, Westbrook scored more and was better assist guy - but look at his team). The great part is Jrue is not "the guy" on the Pelicans too. It's Davis, and his great rookie season was only a glimpse of what he can do.

:speechless:

I love Holiday but holy hell

SMH!
06-28-2013, 05:55 PM
Lol at people who have never seen Jrue play.. The man is a young humble guy in his prime, and seems like he will fit in with NO.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 05:56 PM
Lol at people who have never seen Jrue play.. The man is a young humble guy in his prime, and seems like he will fit in with NO.

The last resort for someone with no arguments. We all watch basketball here. I watched the Sixers a lot this past season, mostly in the start of the season, but I definitely watched a good amount of Jrue.

flea
06-28-2013, 05:58 PM
I said potentially. He only just completed his age 22 season. It's not crazy to think he has a chance at being Westbrook. Maybe his potential isn't as high as Harden's was last year but they're the same age when traded.

Guppyfighter
06-28-2013, 06:04 PM
Harden's TS percentage when traded was 650. Jrue's is 492.


He will never as good as Harden.

2-ONE-5
06-28-2013, 07:11 PM
WS/48 Year 2 .094, TS 516
WS/48 Year 3 .092, TS 516
WS/48 Year 4 .055, TS 492

Plus he is a turnover machine now with bad shot selection.


Yea I was just going to post this... He's average at best.

how many times have you actually WATCHED him play? my over under between both of you is at 9.5

kozelkid
06-28-2013, 07:15 PM
I said potentially. He only just completed his age 22 season. It's not crazy to think he has a chance at being Westbrook. Maybe his potential isn't as high as Harden's was last year but they're the same age when traded.

Considering he has already played 4 years in the league, I'd say that's QUITE a pipe dream.

And the difference is that Harden shown glimpses of greatness, but was held back on a team with great players handling the ball more often. Holliday, on the other hand, played on a bad team where he was already the clear cut number one option.

Mell413
06-28-2013, 07:28 PM
Is it really fair to call him a turnover machine? According to hoop data his turnover rate was slightly above league average and it has gone down the last few years. Seems a little premature to call him a turnover machine.

zn23
06-28-2013, 08:15 PM
Great for New Orleans, up in the air for Philly. It reminds me of the Harden trade in that one is potentially getting a top 10 player in the league and the other is getting 2 rolls of the dice. People bash the Thunder now but it was a pretty equal deal at the time, it's not their fault the pick was so far down in this draft. If they had gotten better placement with it they could have taken KCP/McLemore or even Noel and everyone would be calling them geniuses now instead of morons.

The Sixers fans in here saying they hate Holiday's game are just trying to make themselves feel better. Holiday is a lot like another UCLA point guard - Westbrook. Until just a year or so ago he was Westbrick who will never lead a franchise to anything (even when his numbers virtually mirrored Rose's). Now he's probably the best defensive PG in the game (Holiday could have an argument soon) and a very efficient score-first point guard.

Now I'm not saying Holiday will be as good as Westbrook, but they actually had fairly similar age 22 seasons (about the same efficiency, Westbrook scored more and was better assist guy - but look at his team). The great part is Jrue is not "the guy" on the Pelicans too. It's Davis, and his great rookie season was only a glimpse of what he can do.

no

2-ONE-5
06-28-2013, 08:35 PM
Considering he has already played 4 years in the league, I'd say that's QUITE a pipe dream.

And the difference is that Harden shown glimpses of greatness, but was held back on a team with great players handling the ball more often. Holliday, on the other hand, played on a bad team where he was already the clear cut number one option.

u do realize that this was Holidays first year as the go guy right?

SportsFanatic10
06-29-2013, 01:02 AM
i don't like this for the 6ers, holiday was turning into a nice allstar player.

Guppyfighter
06-29-2013, 01:05 AM
i don't like this for the 6ers, holiday was turning into a nice allstar player.

There is not a shortage of good young guards. Holiday ranked among the lowest of these good young guards.

He is not a priceless commodity. Sixers made out very, very well.

2-ONE-5
06-29-2013, 08:29 AM
give it up dude you dont watch the Sixers/Holiday. go back and watch a bunch of games and then try commenting again

Guppyfighter
06-29-2013, 08:31 AM
give it up dude you dont watch the Sixers/Holiday. go back and watch a bunch of games and then try commenting again

Why don't YOU try watching the game. He had awful shot selection and when he wasn't picking a shot to shoot that was bad, he was giving the ball to the other team.

The_Pharouh
06-29-2013, 08:52 AM
Is the pick top 5 or top 3 protected ?
Anyway ,that pick could be the difference on who wins the trade tbh

2-ONE-5
06-29-2013, 10:02 AM
Why don't YOU try watching the game. He had awful shot selection and when he wasn't picking a shot to shoot that was bad, he was giving the ball to the other team.

i watch every game unlike you who didnt watch more than 2-3 Sixers games. stop looking at advanced stats and just watch the game, you will learn and understand a lot more about basketball.


Is the pick top 5 or top 3 protected ?
Anyway ,that pick could be the difference on who wins the trade tbh

5

Guppyfighter
06-29-2013, 10:06 AM
i watch every game unlike you who didnt watch more than 2-3 Sixers games. stop looking at advanced stats and just watch the game, you will learn and understand a lot more about basketball.



5

I watched more then 2-3 sixers games and it's pretty clear there is a bias here. You have listed no objective facts or reasoning. The most you can muster is a well "I WATCH BASKETBALL."

As if that is that is the best way to evaluate talent. I would take someones opinion more seriously if he only looked at the stats opposed to someone who only watched the game.

The bottom line is getting stats that lead to winning. Jrue doesn't do that. He's inefficient and contributes to losing.

2-ONE-5
06-29-2013, 01:20 PM
theres no bias bcuz i wasnt even a Jure fan when we drafted him. you look at all the bs advanced stats u want it doesnt consider how bad the Sixers were, it took its toll on him this year and it showed in the second half. if you watch a player consistently you have a better idea of what they are and can be compared to advanced stats which are only a suggestion anyway. he had a bad TO problem early in the season while adjusting to being the #1 option but he worked it out as the season went.

flea
06-29-2013, 01:43 PM
I watched more then 2-3 sixers games and it's pretty clear there is a bias here. You have listed no objective facts or reasoning. The most you can muster is a well "I WATCH BASKETBALL."

As if that is that is the best way to evaluate talent. I would take someones opinion more seriously if he only looked at the stats opposed to someone who only watched the game.

The bottom line is getting stats that lead to winning. Jrue doesn't do that. He's inefficient and contributes to losing.
You have to actually understand how advanced stats work before you use them. Win shares aren't all that helpful for a guy on a team whose second option is Thaddeus Young.

GMpunk
06-29-2013, 01:56 PM
great trade of N.O.

Swashcuff
06-29-2013, 11:56 PM
You have to actually understand how advanced stats work before you use them. Win shares aren't all that helpful for a guy on a team whose second option is Thaddeus Young.

And THAT right there is his biggest problem, he has NO idea how they work and how a player goes about accumulating them he just sees them and thinks ZOMG that's a bad player without watching or understanding the player, his teammates, his role and the intangible worth he brings to his team.

He CLEARLY doesn't understand advanced stats.

Swashcuff
06-30-2013, 12:08 AM
No, you didn't. His stats are anemic. It's a fact. And his stats are more worrisome than that. He had the biggest drop in the league when facing top 10 ten defenses. His stats dropped 9 percent. They are bad, really bad.

I remember you arguing that his really awful stats that only get that much worse when you go into them aren't that bad because the team is bad. But when he had a good team, his stats were still awful (better than now, but still really ******.)

And then you probably smuggly thought "Yeah, he sucked, but he is the best player on a really bad team, which means he somehow doesn't suck."

Wait I remember you now, you were the guy who posted a RUBBISH article that I completely ripped to shreds and you refused to reply to the points I made, damn I wish I could remember the thread so I can post how you ran with your tail between your legs after I dispelled any and every argument that was made in that article :laugh2:

My dude you DO NOT understand stats, you don't understand how logging major minutes with the worst players on your team would affect your win shares, you don't understand how turnovers don't speak to your ability as a passer (when you're top 10 in the league as a passer) but speaks more to your teammates, you don't understand how having high USG% teammates helps your efficiency not having Thad Young as your 2nd option, you don't understand how not having Iguodala and Elton Brand behind you affects your team's D thus affecting your WS you don't understand these elementary factors about statistical production, its evident from every post that you make, you think you're making sense but you're not and your inability to see this makes that fact even more telling.

Damn I wish I could remember that thread and that god awful article in which you posted, sharing the same nonsensical agendas that you're spewing here which have already been proven wrong on every level.

YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND STATS before you attempt to have a statistical discussion with those that do. There is more to knowing stats than going to bbref and quoting a players advanced metrics. When you learn this you'd understand a WHOLE lot more about the game of basketball.

Swashcuff
06-30-2013, 12:20 AM
theres no bias bcuz i wasnt even a Jure fan when we drafted him. you look at all the bs advanced stats u want it doesnt consider how bad the Sixers were, it took its toll on him this year and it showed in the second half. if you watch a player consistently you have a better idea of what they are and can be compared to advanced stats which are only a suggestion anyway. he had a bad TO problem early in the season while adjusting to being the #1 option but he worked it out as the season went.

Him alone? Look at Kyrie Irving, history tells us that more times than not young guards have tougher 2nd halves than 1st and its basic common sense. Guys like Curry have been the exception to this rule but generally speaking its going to be tougher for PG centerpieces like Jrue and Irving to have the same or better success against teams the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th times around since the opposing defenses would have game planned for them being the focal point of their teams offense. Jrue was indeed gassed and that may rest on his shoulders as well because late in the season he really did look like he really playing 100% all the time but even as an advanced stats advocate myself on this NBA Forum (one of the biggest) I understand and admit the value of watching a player play in order to FULLY understand how he goes about accumulating those advanced stats.

Does Jrue have huge weaknesses? YES. His inability to get to the line and poor shot selection are arguably the biggest two and I'd knock him every single day for that but these people who run around watching his stats without understanding what he does to get them crack me up.

Notice all of their arguments are based on poor stats and not the actual weaknesses in his game, one poster spoke of poor shot selection and THATS it. Its clear that they don't watch him play and can't formulate an accurate opinion outside of he has poor advanced stats so he's a poor player, they don't see the advanced stats that make him one of the most clutch players in the NBA, they don't see the advanced stats that make him one of the most clutch (statistically speaking the most clutch) defensive starting PG in the NBA, they don't see the stats that have him as the 2nd most valuable offensive PG after Westbrook in the NBA. No they don't see those, they see the BBRef stats and their mind is made up. Poor guys.

Swashcuff
06-30-2013, 12:21 AM
Better talent?

Going from Philly to New Orleans is far from an upgrade... Anthony Davis was a disappointment last year and he had Greivis Vasquez as his point guard, who is just as good as Jrue Holiday if not better.

Adding Jrue will not be the missing piece of the puzzle for that team, they will just stay the same. Win about 30 games or so and miss the playoffs.

Jrue will put up similar numbers.

That alone shows me that you don't know jack about jack. You don't know basketball if you think Davis was a disappointment.

Sactown
06-30-2013, 12:26 AM
I like this for Philly, seemed they kinda went all in on making a potential championship contender, and it didn't work out.. Obviously they are having problems with Jrue or feel he isn't worth the extension. They have put themselves in a nice position though

Michael Carter Williams
and Noels.. And potentially two top 10 picks, as NOH won't be good enough for the playoffs and probably not bad enough to warrant a top 5 pick, I could see them having

1-5 From tanking and Noels not playing early on and being young
8-12 from NOH's
and two nice pieces in MCW and Noels... seems to me it's a fast track to rebuilding.
Don't understand the hate

flea
06-30-2013, 12:31 AM
Lol at Davis disappointing. He was the best rookie, please troll elsewhere.

RollingWave
06-30-2013, 12:37 AM
I'll go out on a limb and say that barring injury situation to the western conference dramatically in their favor, they won't make the playoffs, I mean like wayyyy worse than this year. which makes this deal very questionable for the Pelicans unless they somehow flip Vasquez and Gordon to something really good which i can't see.

As of now, I still have the following teams ahead of them (in loose order)

Thunder
Spurs
Clippers
Rockets
Memphis
Denver
GSW
Wolfs
Lakers
Blazers
Mavs

that still leaves them in the bottom bracket with quite a few things needing to go right to even come close to the playoffs, and I just don't think the Wolfs can be THAT hurt again and the Blazers gotta have a better bench if only because it can't be any worse right?

Holiday had a star first half but a horrible second half which ended up seeing his WS/48 a pretty awful .055, (in comparison, Jeremy Lin, whom isn't exactly highly regarded by many, had a .099 , average NBA player is suppose to be .100 )

Yeah, you can make a lot of reasons for that, but at the end of the day that still happened, and even in his prior 2 season he didn't exactly set the world on fire either.

He's a solid player, but more likely a fairly generic 10-20 PG in this league. and he's being paid the most among these guys.

Unless they can make some serious moves, with Holiday and assuming some more improvement and health from Davis , they're probably a mid to upper 30 win team, that's a pretty ****** improvement to throw away 2 top picks for.

This just doesn't make much sense from the Pelicans perspective, unless first half Jrue becomes permanent Jrue from this point forward and gets better, but there's a decent amount of evidence to think that the odds aren't very high. In the best case scenario , the Pelicans make the 8th seed and gets swept by a mighty team, in the most likely case, they'll be just good enough to fall out of the top 5 lotto and ends up as a very bad team with no picks in one of the best draft in awhile, that's... awful.

Swashcuff
06-30-2013, 12:46 AM
I'll go out on a limb and say that barring injury situation to the western conference dramatically in their favor, they won't make the playoffs, I mean like wayyyy worse than this year. which makes this deal very questionable for the Pelicans unless they somehow flip Vasquez and Gordon to something really good which i can't see.

As of now, I still have the following teams ahead of them (in loose order)

Thunder
Spurs
Clippers
Rockets
Memphis
Denver
GSW
Wolfs
Lakers
Blazers
Mavs

that still leaves them in the bottom bracket with quite a few things needing to go right to even come close to the playoffs, and I just don't think the Wolfs can be THAT hurt again and the Blazers gotta have a better bench if only because it can't be any worse right?

Holiday had a star first half but a horrible second half which ended up seeing his WS/48 a pretty awful .055, (in comparison, Jeremy Lin, whom isn't exactly highly regarded by many, had a .099 , average NBA player is suppose to be .100 )

Yeah, you can make a lot of reasons for that, but at the end of the day that still happened, and even in his prior 2 season he didn't exactly set the world on fire either.

He's a solid player, but more likely a fairly generic 10-20 PG in this league. and he's being paid the most among these guys.

Unless they can make some serious moves, with Holiday and assuming some more improvement and health from Davis , they're probably a mid to upper 30 win team, that's a pretty ****** improvement to throw away 2 top picks for.

Don't know if you realized Gordon (24), Jrue (23), Davis (20), Anderson (25) and Lopez (25) are all 25 and younger with Vasquez being 26, this team isn't looking to compete right now with the Thunder, Spurs and Clippers but how big is the window for the Lakers, Spurs, Grizzlies, Mavs etc The Pelicans are building a group of players who have proven their value in the NBA at a young age, by the time Davis begins to hit his stride at the age of 22 or there about they'd have at least 3 other extremely valuable/highly productive players (health permitting) in Holiday, Gordon and Anderson.

How many of those teams that you just mentioned can say that they'd have a chance to have that around their star player?

RipCity32
06-30-2013, 01:01 AM
I see the Pelicans making the playoffs next year for sure.They were a pretty good team last year even though theyre record dont reflect it.Now you add Holiday to the mix with Gordon and Davis with more experience.That pick will probably be in the upper teens.

Guppyfighter
06-30-2013, 01:15 AM
I see the Pelicans making the playoffs next year for sure.They were a pretty good team last year even though theyre record dont reflect it.Now you add Holiday to the mix with Gordon and Davis with more experience.That pick will probably be in the upper teens.

Pelicans will 100 percent not make the playoffs. Too many better teams than them.

OceanSpray
06-30-2013, 01:17 AM
What the hell do they plan on doing with Eric Gordon and Austin Rivers? Two inefficient scorers.

EvanTurner
06-30-2013, 05:18 AM
give it up dude you dont watch the Sixers/Holiday. go back and watch a bunch of games and then try commenting again
Dude get real i seen 98% of sixers games as a sixer fan and jrue did have terrible shot selection and horrible turnovers all the time. He refused to attack the rim even thiugh he has abiloty to do so. Your sitting here arguing something that you wouldnt argue in the sixers forum because we know he had terrible shot selection and turnovers. I still liked him though.

JeffG20
06-30-2013, 06:15 AM
What the hell do they plan on doing with Eric Gordon and Austin Rivers? Two inefficient scorers.

Rivers will come of the bench...he showed some progress before he went down. As for Gordon I honestly have no clue probably keep him if Demps doesn't feel he can get value

2-ONE-5
06-30-2013, 10:30 AM
I like this for Philly, seemed they kinda went all in on making a potential championship contender, and it didn't work out.. Obviously they are having problems with Jrue or feel he isn't worth the extension. They have put themselves in a nice position though

Michael Carter Williams
and Noels.. And potentially two top 10 picks, as NOH won't be good enough for the playoffs and probably not bad enough to warrant a top 5 pick, I could see them having

1-5 From tanking and Noels not playing early on and being young
8-12 from NOH's
and two nice pieces in MCW and Noels... seems to me it's a fast track to rebuilding.
Don't understand the hate

thats not true. his contract is incredibly friendly going forward but from what we have gathered in the Sixers forum is that Jrue ultimately went bcuz we were not able to get value this good for Turner and Thad. Rumor has it we pushed Thad for cousins (with other parts) and they passed (rightfully so).