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amos1er
06-26-2013, 05:40 AM
Numbers Show LeBron James Will Never Be Michael Jordan No Matter How Many Titles He Wins


On the court, LeBron James is building a resume that will ultimately place him amongst the game's greatest players, including Michael Jordan. But when looking at the picture as a whole, it is clear that King James will never be Air Jordan.

Jordan transcended basketball in a way that has never been matched. And that can easily be seen by looking at how many people tuned in to watch the NBA Finals when Jordan was playing.

Jordan's 35 career games in the Finals averaged 25.3 million viewers. In James' 20 career Finals games, an average of just 15.0 million people tuned in.

And while the size of Jordan's audience tended to grow as his career moved along, the number of people watching LeBron and his merry men has declined each of the past two seasons. And while the audience for game seven will certainly push this year's number up, it still won't come close to the size of a Jordan-fed Finals audience...

http://www.businessinsider.com/numbers-show-lebron-james-will-never-be-michael-jordan-2013-6

Interesting stuff...

amos1er
06-26-2013, 05:44 AM
Funny how people say they would build a franchise around Lebron rather than Jordan or Kobe despite the fact that both Jordan and Kobe have drawn in much more viewers and ticket holders over the years as well as merchandise and jersey sales. I don't know about you, but if I'm an owner, I always look at the bottom line above all else. Both Jordan and Kobe mean more money for your franchise, therefore it's a no brainer that 100% of NBA owners would build their teams around them over Lebron. Stats don't outweigh dollars and cents people. Case closed.

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 05:45 AM
Pretty sure this doesn't count the millions of other people watching online. Nice try, though.

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 05:50 AM
Funny how people say they would build a franchise around Lebron rather than Jordan or Kobe despite the fact that both Jordan and Kobe have drawn in much more viewers and ticket holders over the years as well as merchandise and jersey sales. I don't know about you, but if I'm an owner, I always look at the bottom line above all else. Both Jordan and Kobe mean more money for your franchise, therefore it's a no brainer that 100% of NBA owners would build their teams around them over Lebron. Stats don't outweigh dollars and cents people. Case closed.

Miami Heat franchise increased over 60% when James came over. They are now the 6th most valuable franchisee. Cleveland Cavailers dropped over 25% when James left. And only LAL fans would take Kobe over James. Actually, I'm not even sure most LAL fans would even take Kobe over James. Also, you use stats as an excuse but James also generates more money than Kobe does. LeBron's sneakers totaled $300,000,000+. Kobe? $50,000,000. So no, Kobe doesn't seem to beat James at anything these days.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:03 AM
Pretty sure this doesn't count the millions of other people watching online. Nice try, though.

Lol. You have no idea how the Nielsen rating system works do you. They don't monitor every television set that tunes in, rather they monitor a pre selected sample size of all age groups and demographics and compare them to the total population in order to get an accurate number of people who are watching. Therefore, your little theory about them not accounting for the millions of people watching online is false as their age groups and demographics are already accounted for and included in the average. Perhaps you need to read up more on the subject...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_ratings

More-Than-Most
06-26-2013, 06:05 AM
Much different time for sports and technology is much different. Then you had to watch games on the tv... Now you can feed from online/phone and check the score whenever or watch play by play...Also is basketball even as popular as it was years ago? Also both Kobe/Jordan also had huge media markets and media Darlings on their teams for years in Shaq/Rodman whom were always in the news.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:06 AM
Miami Heat franchise increased over 60% when James came over. They are now the 6th most valuable franchisee. Cleveland Cavailers dropped over 25% when James left. And only LAL fans would take Kobe over James. Actually, I'm not even sure most LAL fans would even take Kobe over James. Also, you use stats as an excuse but James also generates more money than Kobe does. LeBron's sneakers totaled $300,000,000+. Kobe? $50,000,000. So no, Kobe doesn't seem to beat James at anything these days.

Do you have anything other than your word to back this up?

Oh, and Nike dropping Kobe because of the rape doesn't affect his sneaker sales or anything. lol As if the franchise actually gets any of the money from sneaker sales anyways.

Oh, and ten years after his retirement, MJ still earns 80 mill a year from his sneaker deals.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/02/14/how-michael-jordan-still-earns-80-million-a-year/

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:08 AM
Much different time for sports and technology is much different. Then you had to watch games on the tv... Now you can feed from online/phone and check the score whenever or watch play by play...Also is basketball even as popular as it was years ago? Also both Kobe/Jordan also had huge media markets and media Darlings on their teams for years in Shaq/Rodman whom were always in the news.

LMAO!!!

Do you people really don't know how the Nielsen Rating System works do you. Where did you all go to school? My word. They do their studies based off demographics, not by monitoring every individual household in the world. All those people watching on line fall into some sort of demographic and are therefore already accounted for. It's illegal to collect data from people that are not being properly compensated for their market research cooperation. I'm sure you have participated in a market research study at one point in your life and I'm sure you got paid for it as does everyone in a Nielsen study. It wouldn't be very cost effective for market research companies to gather data from every single person on earth would it. It's much more cost effective to use a sample size that is small enough to give you a good estimate for how the general population acts, yet is large enough to be accurate. Companies such as Nielsen are very good at determining that...hence why the richest companies in the world pay them the big bucks.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:15 AM
Interesting article about how Nielsen analyzes online audiences. http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/nielsen-solutions/nielsen-measurement/nielsen-online-measurement.html

Funny how you all think that Nielsen wouldn't account for online audiences considering that the most profitable companies in the world use their data in order to determine how to best spend their marketing dollars.

Green Storm
06-26-2013, 06:15 AM
.

seikou8
06-26-2013, 06:16 AM
more amosler threads to discredit lebron and pump up kobe good job man

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:26 AM
more amosler threads to discredit lebron and pump up kobe good job man

This from a guy who's sig is dedicated to bashing Kobe fans. :rolleyes:

Derick713
06-26-2013, 06:27 AM
LeBron James is more Shaquille O'Neal than Michael Jordan. It's hard for any athlete to come close to Jordan's impact on the world of sports and business. LeBron's great and he's in Jordan's ball park. But Jordan is in a category all to himself.

bholly
06-26-2013, 06:39 AM
I think we need to be clear that there's basketball discussion then there's business discussion. Despite the attempts of the article writer to conflate the two with that headline, this is very much the latter.

No, LBJ is not nearly the marketing and transcendental global phenom that MJ was. Not even close, I'm guessing.

No, that isn't relevant at all to the usual comparisons people care about (which are purely basketball related), and any attempts to pretend it is relevant is completely ridiculous and trolly.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:48 AM
I think we need to be clear that there's basketball discussion then there's business discussion. Despite the attempts of the article writer to conflate the two with that headline, this is very much the latter.

False. There are times when the two overlap especially when the discussion turns to who teams would rather build their franchise around. When owners determine this, profitability is the number one factor. Hence it is a valid discussion point.


No, LBJ is not nearly the marketing and transcendental global phenom that MJ was. Not even close, I'm guessing.

True. It's pretty crazy to think about how MJ still earns about 80 million dollars per year off his shoe sales ten years after his retirement. MJ is the ultimate cash cow and sets the golden standard for winning as well as profitability for both an individual player and a franchise.


No, that isn't relevant at all to the usual comparisons people care about (which are purely basketball related), and any attempts to pretend it is relevant is completely ridiculous and trolly.

Is "trolly" even a word?

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:50 AM
LeBron James is more Shaquille O'Neal than Michael Jordan. It's hard for any athlete to come close to Jordan's impact on the world of sports and business. LeBron's great and he's in Jordan's ball park. But Jordan is in a category all to himself.

Agreed. Funny, I always thought of Lebron to be most comparable to Wilt. Though Shaq would be a good one too I suppose.

seikou8
06-26-2013, 06:57 AM
This from a guy who's sig is dedicated to bashing Kobe fans. :rolleyes:

it could worse but i get material to put in my sig every time i come to this site but you never quit you keep coming debating your *** to prove your point but i can respect that

JasonJohnHorn
06-26-2013, 06:58 AM
I don't think it likely, but should LBJ reel off 8-straight, he will reach a status even Jordan doesn't have.

As for the comparison, this is simply comparing how well Jordan was branded to LBJ. Ali. O.J. Jordan. Tiger Woods. Those guys are rare in terms of celebrity, but it doesn't mean that other can't be as good on the court. Celbrity doesn't count for much in my book.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:58 AM
Oh and to the people blaming internet viewership, Kobe's finals ratings are all higher than Lebron's as well. Since Jordan, Kobe has been the number one draw in ratings both nationally and worldwide.

naps
06-26-2013, 06:58 AM
amos1er is the most obsessed kid with LeBron. By far. He probably keeps searching for articles, tweets, and ofcourse youtube clips 24/7 to discredit LeBron anyway he can.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 06:59 AM
it could worse but i get material to put in my sig every time i come to this site but you never quit you keep coming debating your *** to prove your point but i can respect that

Why thank you.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:00 AM
amos1er is the most obsessed kid with LeBron. By far. He probably keeps searching for articles, tweets, and ofcourse youtube clips 24/7 to discredit LeBron anyway he can.

I don't really search them out all that much. I get updates on my facebook as I have liked a lot of NBA related pages.

FraziersKnicks
06-26-2013, 07:11 AM
Getting desperate amos1er.... LeBron > Kobe

bholly
06-26-2013, 07:11 AM
False. There are times when the two overlap especially when the discussion turns to who teams would rather build their franchise around. When owners determine this, profitability is the number one factor. Hence it is a valid discussion point.

Sure, but that's when you're asking a question that specifically factors in both the basketball side and the business side. Usually when people compare them they're just talking basketball and don't care about the business side. If you care about it then that's fine, but most people don't when they're doing the whole comparison thing. That's all I'm saying.


Oh and to the people blaming internet viewership, Kobe's finals ratings are all higher than Lebron's as well. Since Jordan, Kobe has been the number one draw in ratings both nationally and worldwide.

Sure, but you can't just attribute that to Kobe and LeBron without more information.
For one thing, there could be time effects - Kobe's appearances were mostly before LeBron's. If there's been a downward trend since Jordan you have to factor that in. We're further now from Kobe's last finals appearance than the 2000 Lakers were from Jordan's - so if there are time effects then we need fuller data to take it in to account.
For a second, you have to factor in markets. Kobe has played his whole career in the biggest, for the biggest global team. LeBron has played for small markets.
For a third, you have to take into account team mates - Kobe also had the big draw of Shaq in 4 of his 7 appearances, not to mention that 2004 HOF team.
For a fourth, you have to take into account opponents. 2 of LBJ's 4 finals have come against the perennially low-rating Spurs, while Kobe had two massive BOS/LAL series and Iverson's Sixers and whatever else.
In short, Kobe's finals rating more highly than LBJ's doesn't necessarily and automatically prove Kobe is a bigger draw - he might well be, and to be honest I expect he probably is, but there are a lot more conflating factors that you need to take account of to say anything meaningful about it and what it means about them as individuals.



I know you really want to make this into some "Kobe beats LeBron" thing with the media numbers, and then you want to turn that into some similar comment on their careers and their 'legacies', but neither really follows the way you're hoping it will - you need to come up with more for both before anyone buys it, because right now everyone just sees straight through it.

Delrayhc
06-26-2013, 07:22 AM
amos1er is the most obsessed kid with LeBron. By far. He probably keeps searching for articles, tweets, and ofcourse youtube clips 24/7 to discredit LeBron anyway he can.

I don't really search them out all that much. I get updates on my facebook as I have liked a lot of NBA related pages.

What's the point of this thread? Why would anyone dig this deep? Comparing neilson ratings of 3 players now? Dude you really have to take a look in the mirror. Constantly trying to discredit a certain player. Is this what your life is all about? Jordans great , as well as kobe and lebron just accept it and quit looking like a damn fool.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:35 AM
Sure, but that's when you're asking a question that specifically factors in both the basketball side and the business side. Usually when people compare them they're just talking basketball and don't care about the business side. If you care about it then that's fine, but most people don't when they're doing the whole comparison thing. That's all I'm saying.



Sure, but you can't just attribute that to Kobe and LeBron without more information.
For one thing, there could be time effects - Kobe's appearances were mostly before LeBron's. If there's been a downward trend since Jordan you have to factor that in. We're further now from Kobe's last finals appearance than the 2000 Lakers were from Jordan's - so if there are time effects then we need fuller data to take it in to account.
For a second, you have to factor in markets. Kobe has played his whole career in the biggest, for the biggest global team. LeBron has played for small markets.
For a third, you have to take into account team mates - Kobe also had the big draw of Shaq in 4 of his 7 appearances, not to mention that 2004 HOF team.
For a fourth, you have to take into account opponents. 2 of LBJ's 4 finals have come against the perennially low-rating Spurs, while Kobe had two massive BOS/LAL series and Iverson's Sixers and whatever else.
In short, Kobe's finals rating more highly than LBJ's doesn't necessarily and automatically prove Kobe is a bigger draw - he might well be, and to be honest I expect he probably is, but there are a lot more conflating factors that you need to take account of to say anything meaningful about it and what it means about them as individuals.



I know you really want to make this into some "Kobe beats LeBron" thing with the media numbers, and then you want to turn that into some similar comment on their careers and their 'legacies', but neither really follows the way you're hoping it will - you need to come up with more for both before anyone buys it, because right now everyone just sees straight through it.

Why don't we compare how Kobe's Lakers vs. Duncan's Spurs do against Lebron's Cavs or Lebron's Heat...

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/ratings/2012/11/15/lakers-vs-spurs-generates-nba-tvs-most-viewed-nba-fan-night-of-all-time-488202/20121115nbatv01/

[via press release from NBA TV]
Lakers vs. Spurs Generates NBA TV's Most-Viewed NBA Fan Night of All Time


NBA TV's telecast featuring the Los Angeles Lakers and San Antonio Spurs on Tuesday, Nov. 13, averaged 739,000 total viewers to become the network's most-viewed NBA Fan Night ever, according to Nielsen. The game also generated NBA TV's second highest-rated regular season game (trailing only this year's record-setting opening night telecast between the Lakers and Portland Trail Blazers, the network's most-viewed telecast ever) and its third most-viewed regular season telecast. This year's Lakers/Trail Blazers telecast ranks first overall with an average of 868,000 total viewers and last year's Los Angeles Clippers/Lakers telecast averaged 756,000 total viewers.

Hosted by Ernie Johnson with analysts Chris Webber and Greg Anthony, the popular NBA Fan Night presented by Sprint allows fans to determine the game they most want to watch via voting across NBA.com, the NBA Facebook page, Yahoo.com, NBA.com mobile web, mobile GameTime App and Twitter.

Fan voting for the next NBA Fan Night telecast (Tuesday, Nov. 20) will conclude tonight at midnight, with fans selecting the game from the following possible matchups:

Toronto Raptors @ Philadelphia 76ers

New York Knicks @ New Orleans Hornets

Brooklyn Nets @ Los Angeles Lakers

NBA TV is a part of NBA Digital, the NBA's extensive cross-platform portfolio of digital assets jointly-managed by the NBA and Turner Sports including NBA TV, NBA.com, NBA LEAGUE PASS, NBA LEAGUE PASS Broadband, NBA Mobile, NBADLEAGUE.com, and WNBA.com.

--30--

Source: Nielsen Media Research. Live + same day data. Most viewed Fan Night: 11/2/10 - 11/13/12. Most viewed Regular Season: 10/30/10 - 11/11/12. Includes live telecasts only, P2+.


Read more at http://www.thefutoncritic.com/ratings/2012/11/15/lakers-vs-spurs-generates-nba-tvs-most-viewed-nba-fan-night-of-all-time-488202/20121115nbatv01/#8YDU5wJf2ERLqvcm.99

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/broadcast_ratings_110106.html


Spurs Broadcasts Top Nielsen Ratings Across All Outlets
SAN ANTONIO – The San Antonio Spurs announced today the team is leading the league in local television ratings through January game broadcasts.

Spurs broadcasts averaged an impressive 9.7 Nielsen household rating in the San Antonio market on FOX Sports Southwest through January 5, 2011. According to Nielsen Media Research data, the 9.7 rating is a 54 percent season-to-season increase; pacing the Spurs to top the team’s best-ever season average of 7.7 established in 2004-05.

The Spurs delivered their highest regular-season local rating ever on FOX Sports Southwest on Dec. 28 against the Los Angeles Lakers with a 17.8 rating (150,500 San Antonio households). It was the most-watched program of the day in San Antonio and was the best rating for a Spurs game on FSSW since an 18.3 for Game 5 of last season’s NBA Western Conference first-round playoff series against the Dallas Mavericks on April 27, 2010.

Through January 5, the Spurs have produced their top five all-time regular-season ratings, and nine of the season’s top 10 highest-rated games on any regional sports network in the country.

Since the record regular-season rating on Dec. 28, Spurs ratings have been on a roll, adding to the Top 5 all-time list on FOX Sports Southwest. The No. 2 all-time Spurs regular-season rating was recorded on Jan. 5 against the Boston Celtics with a 14.3 rating/120,500 households, one day after a 14.0 rating/118,600 households on Jan. 4 against the New York Knicks that followed a 13.1 rating/110,400 households on Jan. 1 against the Oklahoma City Thunder. The fifth-highest all-time Spurs regular-season rating on FSSW was set on Dec. 22 against Denver with a 12.3 rating/103,900 households.

Spurs Live pre and post game shows on FSSW also are pulling in high ratings. Postgame shows are averaging a 5.0 rating, a 98 percent increase over last year; while pregame shows are averaging a 2.6 rating for a 52 percent increase.

Spurs broadcasts on KENS 5 TV have averaged a 22 percent season-to-season increase from last year with an 11.8 average rating. In addition, CW35 Spurs ratings are averaging an 8.9 rating seeing a 31% season-to-season increase over the 2009-10 season.

Spurs games are called by Bill Land and Sean Elliot. Andrew Monaco provides sideline reports for all FSSW games, while Joe Reinagel suits up for KENS broadcasts and Chuck Miketinac reports for games on CW35.

Surely when Kobe's Lakers play the Spurs, more people seem to tune in during the regular season than when Lebron's Heat play the Spurs. I'm sure the trend would translate over to the finals, but it's impossible for them to play the Spurs in the finals seeing as how they are both Western Conference teams. You also act as if Lebron playing with Wade doesn't help his case as well. Kobe is the bigger draw than Lebron internationally as well as was seen in both Olympic appearances when Kobe got more recognition by fans around the world. Even in this recent 2012 Olympic appearance, a 17 year old veteran Kobe got way more fan recognition in China than did Lebron.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/08/17/as-always-china-in-love-with-bryant/


HANG TIME NEW JERSEY – Kobe Bryant is a pretty popular guy, even more so in China than he is at home.
When the U.S. National Team was introduced before every game at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, Bryant got twice the ovation of any of his teammates. LeBron James may be the best player in the world and the center of NBA media attention here in the States, but he’s got nothing on Kobe in China.
Winning five championships with the Lakers certainly helps. But Bryant has taken it further by visiting China every summer for the last seven years. And while most of his Olympic teammates are back home, Bryant is still on the road, touring China once again.
Mark Medina of the Los Angeles Times has the details…
Bryant told The Times in February that he found that the Chinese were especially welcoming when he hosted a clinic in 1998.
“I enjoyed being around that,” Bryant said. “I thought I’d come back every summer and help them out as much as I can.”
This is the seventh summer in a row that Bryant has visited China, including the 2008 Beijing Olympics. On this trip, according to published accounts, Bryant has hosted training clinics at Jinan in China’s Shandong province and in Wuhan in Hubei province. Bryant attended a charity dinner hosted by the China Soong Ching Ling Foundation, which raises educational funds for needy children in both China and the United States. And it’s also safe to presume he’ll participate in various events promoting his Nike sneakers.
The latest evidence of Bryant’s popularity in China is the photos coming out of Wuhan, featuring a sea of arms and cameras hoping to catch a shot of the Lakers’ star.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:44 AM
http://blog.lakers.com/lakers/2012/06/21/bryant-has-most-popular-nba-jersey-internationally/


Bryant has Most Popular Jersey Internationally

NEW YORK, June 20, 2012 – The National Basketball Association (NBA) today released its first-ever overall international top selling jerseys list and five-time NBA Champion Kobe Bryant has the most popular NBA jersey internationally. The top 15 list was based on sales at adidas locations outside the United States during the 2011-12 NBA season.
Chicago’s Derrick Rose, Miami’s LeBron James, Boston’s Kevin Garnett and Orlando’s Dwight Howard, round out the top five. The list features three players in the NBA Finals: James, Dwyane Wade and Kevin Durant. International stars such as Los Angeles Lakers’ Pau Gasol from Spain, Dallas’ Dirk Nowitzki from Germany, San Antonio’s Tony Parker from France, and Minnesota’s Ricky Rubio from Spain made the top 15.
The NBA also announced the top five selling jerseys in key regions: China, Europe and Latin America. In China, Bryant has the top selling jersey for the sixth straight season while Rose moves up to No. 2. Bryant had the top selling jersey in Europe and Latin America this season.
2011-12 Top Selling Jerseys Internationally
1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
2. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
3. LeBron James, Miami Heat
4. Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics
5. Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic
6. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
7. Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics
8. Carmelo Anthony, New York Knicks
9. Blake Griffin, Los Angeles Clippers
10. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder
11. Pau Gasol, Los Angeles Lakers
12. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks
13. Amar’e Stoudemire, New York Knicks
14. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs
15. Ricky Rubio, Minnesota Timberwolves
2011-12 Top Selling Jerseys in China
1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
2. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
3. LeBron James, Miami Heat
4. Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic
5. Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics
2011-12 Top Selling Jerseys in Europe
1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
2. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
3. LeBron James, Miami Heat
4. Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics
5. Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic
2011-12 Top Selling Jerseys in Latin America
1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
2. LeBron James, Miami Heat
3. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
4. Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics
5. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
- See more at: http://blog.lakers.com/lakers/2012/06/21/bryant-has-most-popular-nba-jersey-internationally/#sthash.6d156jYv.dpuf

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1300916-kobe-bryant-and-the-10-most-nba-popular-stars-outside-the-usa/page/11


It's easy to see why, what with his constant greatness, his icon status on one of the two most internationally-visible franchises and even his little international connection with Italy, Kobe Bryant is the most popular basketball player in the world.

Kobe was the best player in the NBA when international interest was peaking, growing to a huge level in the late '90s and exploding beyond that with the Chinese market rumbled onto the scene in the early 2000s. It's easy to gravitate to the best player in the NBA.

Bryant not only has the best-selling jersey internationally, but it's the best-selling jersey in each individual region, leading in Europe, Latin America and China, the three biggest international markets the NBA chases.

It seems that people all over the world love Kobe, even if he does get constant scrutiny in the good ol' U-S-of-A.

The Flash
06-26-2013, 07:48 AM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

More-Than-Most
06-26-2013, 07:49 AM
So Popularity makes you the better basketball player???? James is already ahead of Kobe in most peoples eyes and a far better basketball player. Will he reach Jordan? Not sure. He is the only one that has the shot to be brutally honest. You are running with this popularity thing. TMac/Yao/Iverson were all insanely popular if I am not mistaken...That doesn't mean they are GOATS.

alexander_37
06-26-2013, 07:49 AM
If you care about viewers and jersey sales more than actual basketball, you are a joke.

bholly
06-26-2013, 07:51 AM
.I don't care, man, I'm one of those who don't care about business stats, just basketball. Cherry pick all the data you want.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:51 AM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/21/kobe-bryant-is-americas-most-popular-athlete-didnt-see-that-coming-did-you/


Kobe Bryant is America's most popular athlete. Didn't see that coming, did you?

Five years ago, Kobe Bryant may have been America’s most loathed athlete. Calling his career as an endorser “washed up” would have been about the nicest way of putting things one could have.

Now, he is America’s most popular athlete.

According to a poll by Harris Interactive, Kobe Bryant and Tiger Woods are tied as the most popular athletes in America. Tiger had held that spot by himself since 2006 but worked tirelessly to screw up his popularity in the past 12 months. Job well done there, sir.

Kobe was mighty unpopular himself a few years back. But he embraced the polarizing nature of his personality — love me or hate me, but you will respect my game. Marketing him became more about marketing his will and drive than his personality. And eventually that evolved because people did start to respect him then like him again. He leads the league in jersey sales, his popularity is global.

Oh, and he started winning. Wining still cures all ills in America.

By the way, Derek Jeter was third (likely just the votes of his ex-girlfriends could have gotten him here), Brett Favre was fourth, Payton Manning fifth, LeBron James sixth (the poll was taken before “the Decision”) and Michael Jordan was seventh.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/31472/life-is-a-big-popularity-contest-and-kobe-bryant-is-winning


Today, the NBA released its list of best-selling jerseys on the international market, and Kobe Bryant was the big winner. While he wasn't No. 1 stateside in 2011-12 -- he "tumbled" all the way to third -- outside the U.S. No. 24 jerseys flew off the shelves. Moreover, the Lakers star dominated in each of the three regional subsets tracked by the NBA. Bryant was the top seller in China (for the sixth straight year), along with Europe and Latin America.

None of this should shock anyone, given Bryant's incredible popularity globally. Any time he sets foot in a foreign land, he might as well be The Beatles. All four of 'em. People, grown-ups and kids alike, flock to him screaming like teenage girls.

Few American athletes have worked harder to make inroads across the globe like Bryant, and clearly it has paid off.

Interestingly, despite routinely disparaging Twitter and other forms of newfangled communication, Kobe is also a big winner in the NBA's inaugural Social Media Awards. Bryant won what appear to be the Best Picture and Best Director of the S.M.A.'s (do they call them that?) -- The #TrendSetter Award for the player receiving the most Twitter mentions this season, and the Thumbs-Up Award, going to the player who had the most likes, or whose Facebook posts received the most likes.

For the record, his Facebook page (which mostly promotes his charitable endeavors) currently has over 13.16 million of them.

As you can see, Kobe is easily the most popular NBA player since Jordan. Hence the reason 100% of owners would build their team around a prime Kobe over a prime Lebron. Oh and his longevity certainly helps his case as well seeing as a franchise would be not only getting the max amount of revenue of any player since Jordan, but a longer duration of max revenue as well. It's a no brainer.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2013, 07:51 AM
If you care about viewers and jersey sales more than actual basketball, you are a joke.

:clap:

I just dont get what the OP is trying to say. Its like he has nothing left so this is all he can find about James lol. Its pretty sad

ThuglifeJ
06-26-2013, 07:53 AM
What's the point of this thread? Why would anyone dig this deep? Comparing neilson ratings of 3 players now? Dude you really have to take a look in the mirror. Constantly trying to discredit a certain player. Is this what your life is all about? Jordans great , as well as kobe and lebron just accept it and quit looking like a damn fool.

Just as all the Heat poster's lives are about defending and hyping your own team, and geeking out about any threads such as this. It's a constant trend on here. A Laker fan makes a thread making Lebron look bad, Heat fans rush to the scene in defense and whine about everything.
You all need to 'look in the mirror'. The game you love to watch is being less enjoyable because of your actions on this site.

The OP is definitely being annoying, but the numbers are actually interesting to me. I always felt it was more of an event when the Bulls were in the finals, even Laker's Shaq/Kobe. Thought I was being naive but this just confirms it for me, which is cool to know.

The thread title could use some work tho.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:53 AM
So Popularity makes you the better basketball player???? James is already ahead of Kobe in most peoples eyes and a far better basketball player. Will he reach Jordan? Not sure. He is the only one that has the shot to be brutally honest. You are running with this popularity thing. TMac/Yao/Iverson were all insanely popular if I am not mistaken...That doesn't mean they are GOATS.

By most people I take it you are referring to the flurry of Lebronites on this site seeing as how most credible experts don't really see it that way.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2013, 07:54 AM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/21/kobe-bryant-is-americas-most-popular-athlete-didnt-see-that-coming-did-you/



http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/31472/life-is-a-big-popularity-contest-and-kobe-bryant-is-winning



As you can see, Kobe is easily the most popular NBA player since Jordan. Hence the reason 100% of owners would build their team around a prime Kobe over a prime Lebron. Oh and his longevity certainly helps his case as well seeing as a franchise would be not only getting the max amount of revenue of any player since Jordan, but a longer duration of max revenue as well. It's a no brainer.

lmfao this is adorable. So is Jeter the bestest player of all time as well or does his location of where he plays help just a bit in terms of his popularity? If James had gone to new york he would be number 1 in everything.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:55 AM
Just as all the Heat poster's lives are about defending and hyping your own team, and geeking out about any threads such as this. It's a constant trend on here. A Laker fan makes a thread making Lebron look bad, Heat fans rush to the scene in defense and whine about everything.
You all need to 'look in the mirror'. The game you love to watch is being less enjoyable because of your actions on this site.

The OP is definitely being annoying, but the numbers are actually interesting to me. I always felt it was more of an event when the Bulls were in the finals, even Laker's Shaq/Kobe. Thought I was being naive but this just confirms it for me, which is cool to know.

The thread title could use some work tho.

I took the title straight from the article. I merely shortened it slightly so that I could fit it all.

Oh and glad I can be of assistance BTW.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:56 AM
lmfao this is adorable. So is Jeter the bestest player of all time as well or does his location of where he plays help just a bit in terms of his popularity? If James had gone to new york he would be number 1 in everything.

Would of, should of, could of...

amos1er
06-26-2013, 07:58 AM
:clap:

I just dont get what the OP is trying to say. Its like he has nothing left so this is all he can find about James lol. Its pretty sad

Oh I have plenty more. Perhaps you should dig though the current mess of threads a bit more...it's all there. I just don't feel like side tracking off topic at the moment.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 08:00 AM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Oh no...the dreaded facepalm.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2013, 08:01 AM
Oh I have plenty more. Perhaps you should dig though the current mess of threads a bit more...it's all there. I just don't feel like side tracking off topic at the moment.

But again what exactly is the point? Tim Duncan and the spurs are one of the most boring teams/players ever and the spurs will go down as one of the best teams ever and Duncan is a top 10 player ever ahead of Mr Bryant. Popularity means um nothing when you are speaking about the best player. If you are asking who I want to build a franchise around I would go with the best player because winning sells... In terms of Kobe/James its hands down James... Kobe is a huge name because of the market. Jordan is on another level than both but James suffered from playing in cleveland.

Delrayhc
06-26-2013, 08:04 AM
What's the point of this thread? Why would anyone dig this deep? Comparing neilson ratings of 3 players now? Dude you really have to take a look in the mirror. Constantly trying to discredit a certain player. Is this what your life is all about? Jordans great , as well as kobe and lebron just accept it and quit looking like a damn fool.

Just as all the Heat poster's lives are about defending and hyping your own team, and geeking out about any threads such as this. It's a constant trend on here. A Laker fan makes a thread making Lebron look bad, Heat fans rush to the scene in defense and whine about everything.
You all need to 'look in the mirror'. The game you love to watch is being less enjoyable because of your actions on this site.

The OP is definitely being annoying, but the numbers are actually interesting to me. I always felt it was more of an event when the Bulls were in the finals, even Laker's Shaq/Kobe. Thought I was being naive but this just confirms it for me, which is cool to know.

The thread title could use some work tho.

I would say the same if anyone were to constantly make threads about lebron only to discredit other players. I dont think you understand the undeniable obsession that the o.p has.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 08:06 AM
I don't care, man, I'm one of those who don't care about business stats, just basketball. Cherry pick all the data you want.

If you don't care than why respond in the first place and try to make an argument in favor of Lebron being more popular than Kobe in the first place? Oh and these "business stats" are based off basketball in that they reflect the popular opinion of nearly all basketball fans in the world. Which in turn is a major factor in determining a players greatness. In the end, it's all about perception. Advantage Kobe.

amos1er
06-26-2013, 08:07 AM
But again what exactly is the point? Tim Duncan and the spurs are one of the most boring teams/players ever and the spurs will go down as one of the best teams ever and Duncan is a top 10 player ever ahead of Mr Bryant. Popularity means um nothing when you are speaking about the best player. If you are asking who I want to build a franchise around I would go with the best player because winning sells... In terms of Kobe/James its hands down James... Kobe is a huge name because of the market. Jordan is on another level than both but James suffered from playing in cleveland.

Funny how you say winning sells when Kobe has James beat on that too. lol

Crackadalic
06-26-2013, 08:18 AM
OP I get that Lebron will never get that draw in terms of popularity like Jordan or Kobe but why does any of this matter?

amos1er
06-26-2013, 08:25 AM
OP I get that Lebron will never get that draw in terms of popularity like Jordan or Kobe but why does any of this matter?

Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

Guppyfighter
06-26-2013, 08:27 AM
Amoser is an awful person.

Guppyfighter
06-26-2013, 08:27 AM
Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

LOL

Okay

Crackadalic
06-26-2013, 08:32 AM
Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

Player A won 5 titles 3 Mvps and 3 all nba teams but isn't watch as often because he plays for a small market team Player B won 3 titles 1 MVP no all nba teams but is very popular especially overseas and plays for a big market team he ultimately in terms of popularity is better than player A even though he isn't decorated with as much individual or team awards. I'm not bashing your opinion and it is interesting but it's way to flawed

JDMVP
06-26-2013, 08:33 AM
People in America will always follow numbers, media and ESPN. In America Kobe/Lakers are hated everywhere even though people won't admit it. The rest of the world though its another different story just look at the past olympics Kobe still got more of the attention in the media than LeBron, but of course some dedicated Heat from america will probably come out and post about numbers again. At the end of the day no matter what LBJ does, Kobe will still be liked more by the people cause he is old fashioned aka Jordan Type unlike to LeBron when he left cleveland to join two other stars by his choice lost some fans already. The world favorite basketball team is the Lakers and that is why Kobe will be popular than LeBron 4ever, same with MJ, the guy has been retired for almost a decade now and yet people are still buying his shoes for crying out loud. Like i said theres nothing wrong in what Bron did, its his choice but in the eyes of many it will always be a negative one since he didnt do it the old fashioned way.

koreancabbage
06-26-2013, 08:34 AM
Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

now i know you are an idiot for saying that. "public perceptions" "greatness" - aren't we talking about the better basketball player?

only Kobephiles - which there a TON of (definitely more than Lebron - and you can tell that by the jersey sales etc etc etc) will consider Kobe the best. Kobe is a marketing phenom.

too bad it doesn't support Kobe being the better player. only the most marketable.

Lebron > Kobe.

imo, true basketball fans will know that Lebron is the better overall basketball player in terms of skillset. BASKETBALL stats back Lebron, NOT marketing.

koreancabbage
06-26-2013, 08:37 AM
People in America will always follow numbers, media and ESPN. In America Kobe/Lakers are hated everywhere even though people won't admit it. The rest of the world though its another different story just look at the past olympics Kobe still got more of the attention in the media than LeBron, but of course some dedicated Heat from america will probably come out and post about numbers again. At the end of the day no matter what LBJ does, Kobe will still be liked more by the people cause he is old fashioned aka Jordan Type unlike to LeBron when he left cleveland to join two other stars by his choice lost some fans already. The world favorite basketball team is the Lakers and that is why Kobe will be popular than LeBron 4ever, same with MJ, the guy has been retired for almost a decade now and yet people are still buying his shoes for crying out loud. Like i said theres nothing wrong in what Bron did, its his choice but in the eyes of many it will always be a negative one since he didnt do it the old fashioned way.

look at that jersey sale man, there are a lot of kobe lovers everywhere. People like good teams. people like fancy players, people like scorers.

I agree, most people won't like Lebron due to the way he did it - but in reality, there is nothing wrong with it - people are just accustomed to the ways they know - people don't like doing things different

FraziersKnicks
06-26-2013, 08:45 AM
Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

:laugh2:

http://nba.si.com/2013/04/10/carmelo-anthony-lebron-james-most-popular-nba-jerseys-list-new-york-knicks-miami-heat/


The Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony finds himself atop two impressive lists this week.


Days after passing Thunder forward Kevin Durant to take the NBA’s scoring lead by a fraction of a point, the league announced Tuesday that Anthony has jumped into the top spot on its jersey sales list.

In November, Anthony ranked fourth, trailing Heat forward LeBron James, Durant and Lakers guard Kobe Bryant. The new top five, in order: Anthony, James, Durant, Bryant and Bulls guard Derrick Rose.


Anthony’s rise makes it a clean sweep for the Big Apple, as the Knicks maintained their No. 1 position on the NBA’s most popular team merchandise list. The Heat, Lakers, Nets and Bulls rounded out the top five.

Two new names entered the top-15 most popular jerseys list: Cavaliers guard Kyrie Irving, who debuted at No. 11, and Knicks forward Amar’e Stoudemire, who ranked No. 14 after not placing in the most recent list.

Things couldn’t be going much better for New York these days. The Knicks are riding a 13-game winning streak and look poised to capture the No. 2 playoff seed in the Eastern Conference. Anthony, 28, has been the straw that stirs the drink, averaging 28.4 points, 6.6 rebounds and 2.5 assists while shooting 44.8 percent this season.

You can view photos of the top 15 players based on jersey sales in this SI.com gallery. Keep reading for the full lists of the most popular players and teams when it comes to jerseys and merchandise sales, respectively.

Top 15 Most Popular NBA Jerseys:

1. Carmelo Anthony, Knicks
2. LeBron James, Heat
3. Kevin Durant, Thunder
4. Kobe Bryant, Lakers
5. Derrick Rose, Bulls
6. Deron Williams, Nets
7. Dwyane Wade, Heat
8. Rajon Rondo, Celtics
9. Chris Paul, Clippers
10. Blake Griffin, Clippers
11. Kyrie Irving, Cavaliers
12. Dwight Howard, Lakers
13. Russell Westbrook, Thunder
14. Amar’e Stoudemire, Knicks
15. Paul Pierce, Celtics

Melo > Kobe

NYCkid12
06-26-2013, 09:04 AM
When it comes to Jordan, as far as marketing is concerned, there is no one that will ever compare in any sport. He became a marketing machine and is now a brand in fashion/sports that is unrivaled. As far as I'm concerned whether we're talking basketball skills or marketing if I'm starting a team, it's with MJ.

As far as Kobe is concerned, a big part of his popularity does have some contribution from the fact that he plays in a traditionally large media market. Miami (not trying to be disrespectful) does not have a history of a fan base that is "die hard." The Lakers do have that type of fan base. The Knicks are among the most profitable teams and up until the last 2-3 years were not even relevant in the NBA.

If I am an owner, I'm sure there's a lot more I'd be putting into play than just these statistics. For example, you mention the TV ratings, is there a larger fan base now than there were 10 years ago? or less?

Either way, when I talk about starting a franchise, I base it purely off talent and skill and who gives me best chance to wim and that's clearly LeBron.

Slug3
06-26-2013, 09:24 AM
I thought this was going to be about actual stats but instead it's someone who has searched every corner of the Internet to find one place Lebron is not the best at.

Slug3
06-26-2013, 09:30 AM
Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

Do you remember how the public looked at Kobe after Shaw left and when he was accused of raping that woman? Everyone outside of LA (and even some in LA) hated Kobes guts. But he went on to win 2 more rings and pretty much won his fan base and the media back. Bottom line is winning is all that matters, and right now that is Lebron no matter how you wish to look at it.

northphillyfan
06-26-2013, 09:30 AM
All this is great in theory but I believe lebron is at a place where he could care less what we think he has the praise of his peers his idols growing up are telling him he is the greatest player alive he has the hardware to go along with praise and I just found out recently that his shoe line is doing just fine making 300 mill for Nike last year so thinks are going well for mr James lol

FYL_McVeezy
06-26-2013, 09:31 AM
Yippie!!!!!! Another LBJ d***rider vs LBJ hater circle jerk...

Not a fan of LBJ but the constant comparisons need to stop...his game is nothing like jordan's and he is building his own brand as we speak....I get the Kobe vs MJ debate because thier games are similar but not Lebron's...we've never seen a player with LBJ's characteristics....

no need to keep casting him behind MJ's shadow....LBJ will have his own legacy when all is said and done....

ATX
06-26-2013, 09:32 AM
Amos1er baiting James fans as per usual. Resorting to arguing he'll never be Jordan now as it's becoming clear as day he's surpassing Kobe, and for many, already surpassed. Maybe LeBron is creating HIS OWN legacy...Ever thought about that? Now we're using a television viewership stat? Okay? I thought the court was where legends are made, not who's the most popular...Besides arguing Kobe's jersey sales is supposed to prove what? He's a Laker, and that franchise is historically more popular than the Heat, besides the Heat have been in existence way shorter than the Lakers. As James keeps winning and winning I think more people will "Tune in"...Even though it's not to watch the almighty Lakers.....

Slug3
06-26-2013, 09:32 AM
look at that jersey sale man, there are a lot of kobe lovers everywhere. People like good teams. people like fancy players, people like scorers.

I agree, most people won't like Lebron due to the way he did it - but in reality, there is nothing wrong with it - people are just accustomed to the ways they know - people don't like doing things different

Lebron still outsold Kobe in Jerseys. Really the only time Kobe sold the most jerseys in recent memory is when he changed him number.

ManRam
06-26-2013, 09:44 AM
so, the argument is that NBA viewership was better in the Jordan era than it is now, so there for Jordan is better? am i reading the OP correctly?

Im_in_Mia_bish
06-26-2013, 09:45 AM
Lol @ trying to throw Kobe in with Jordan when the nba finals with shaq and Kobe generated one of the lowest ratings in nba finals history.

Too funny.

As for the ratings, to blindly assume that technology, jobs, and social life has no effect on this makes me question your general iq level. No wonder the Asians are taking us over as a nation!! Amos, as usual not sure if trolling or truly stupid.

With the way you judge variables, I'm sure any "business" you own will fail.
I haven't seen such backwards thinking a since I went to Tallahassee, FL.

siix
06-26-2013, 09:49 AM
wow alot of ppl hate kobe on this site. anyways kobe>lebron all day.

Im_in_Mia_bish
06-26-2013, 09:51 AM
wow alot of ppl hate kobe on this site. anyways kobe>lebron all day.

Lol you can't be serious about both points..

Smh you just can't teach a biased fan I guess.

Im_in_Mia_bish
06-26-2013, 09:57 AM
People in America will always follow numbers, media and ESPN. In America Kobe/Lakers are hated everywhere even though people won't admit it. The rest of the world though its another different story just look at the past olympics Kobe still got more of the attention in the media than LeBron, but of course some dedicated Heat from america will probably come out and post about numbers again. At the end of the day no matter what LBJ does, Kobe will still be liked more by the people cause he is old fashioned aka Jordan Type unlike to LeBron when he left cleveland to join two other stars by his choice lost some fans already. The world favorite basketball team is the Lakers and that is why Kobe will be popular than LeBron 4ever, same with MJ, the guy has been retired for almost a decade now and yet people are still buying his shoes for crying out loud. Like i said theres nothing wrong in what Bron did, its his choice but in the eyes of many it will always be a negative one since he didnt do it the old fashioned way.

Lol.. You guys really are something.

So whenever it fits your argument, you use the variable card "oh for Kobe it's more about numbers because..."

But when the argument is for Kobe, you guys don't look at all tue variables.. Lol :laugh2:

I, as a heat fan, although admit I am biased to a certain extent, I at least try to be reasonable. Your perception of America dislikes Kobe/lakers is true to a certain extent. Majority of Americans dislike him mainly because of his fan base that tend to throw every other player under the bus by saying ludicrous things.

My advice? If you lack the skills to be objective, just shut the **** up, and enjoy the nba and not add your two cents. Lol

But that's just me. :)

Teeboy1487
06-26-2013, 09:57 AM
I think it's fair to say no one will surpass Jordan in this era and I don't need ratings to prove it. As a player, Jordan was extremely dominant. As great as Lebron is, he was not as dominant as Jordan was. Lebron has the chance to surpass guys like Kareem and possibly Wilt. However, it's too late for him to surpass Jordan no matter how many rings he gets. I can definitely see Lebron in the Top 3 alltime, but lets see it play out first. I'm sick of this discussion to be honest.

DDynO
06-26-2013, 09:59 AM
People really do go out of their way on this site to diminish what Lebron James is doing. Crazy.

Im_in_Mia_bish
06-26-2013, 10:01 AM
I think it's fair to say no one will surpass Jordan in this era and I don't need ratings to prove it. As a player, Jordan was extremely dominant. As great as Lebron is, he was not as dominant as Jordan was. Lebron has the chance to surpass guys like Kareem and possibly Wilt. However, it's too late for him to surpass Jordan no matter how many rings he gets. I can definitely see Lebron in the Top 3 alltime, but lets see it play out first. I'm sick of this discussion to be honest.

Although I disagree about lebron not having the chance to surpass Jordan, good points all throughout.

I am sick of these discussions just as much as you are.. So I feel you on that.

Let's just wait for this dude to retire before talking about this.

ATX
06-26-2013, 10:04 AM
I think it's fair to say no one will surpass Jordan in this era and I don't need ratings to prove it. As a player, Jordan was extremely dominant. As great as Lebron is, he was not as dominant as Jordan was. Lebron has the chance to surpass guys like Kareem and possibly Wilt. However, it's too late for him to surpass Jordan no matter how many rings he gets. I can definitely see Lebron in the Top 3 alltime, but lets see it play out first. I'm sick of this discussion to be honest.

Agreed.

Jabears85
06-26-2013, 10:10 AM
Pretty sure this doesn't count the millions of other people watching online. Nice try, though.

Lebum will never be Jordan. Not taking away anything from him as a player he is the best in the game CURRENTLY and is will go down in the top 10.

/Thread

Slug3
06-26-2013, 10:18 AM
Lebum will never be Jordan. Not taking away anything from him as a player he is the best in the game CURRENTLY and is will go down in the top 10.

/Thread

Then why couldnt you have just called him Lebron instead of making up these fantastic names for him?

sammyvine
06-26-2013, 10:22 AM
somebody will surpress him eventually imo

i just dont think lebron is as good as him as a basketball player. if both had 0 rings, i still think mj is the better player.

Lo Porto
06-26-2013, 10:26 AM
People really do go out of their way on this site to diminish what Lebron James is doing. Crazy.

No freaking kidding. People do whatever it takes to bash LeBron and do everything they can to keep idolizing their false god Jordan.

The basis of this thread could make it the dumbest thread I've ever seen. Do you realize how much more there is to watch now than there was in Jordan's TV era? Was reality TV really even around in 1998? Were there even a third as many channels as there are now?

LoLo Jones was the most popular sprinter at the last Olympics. According to this thread's logic, she should be considered better than the 3 people who actually beat her? So freaking stupid...

Chronz
06-26-2013, 10:26 AM
Brand appeal.... says more about the Lakers than it says about Bron.

blastmasta26
06-26-2013, 10:30 AM
so, the argument is that NBA viewership was better in the Jordan era than it is now, so there for Jordan is better? am i reading the OP correctly?

I believe so. I do think Jordan is still better than LeBron, but this premise is utterly asinine. Why not make a statistical comparison of something relevant like, oh I don't know, their actual NBA numbers? This argument has no relevance at all to who the better player is and frankly seems like a LeBron hater grasping at straws to disparage him in any way possible.

Pierzynski4Prez
06-26-2013, 10:31 AM
Thread title is very misleading, and who gives a **** about who draws what ratings. If you watch, you watch, if you don't you don't.

Chronz
06-26-2013, 10:52 AM
Thread title is very misleading, and who gives a **** about who draws what ratings. If you watch, you watch, if you don't you don't.

Not a fan of the casual fan determining greatness?

bucketss
06-26-2013, 10:56 AM
amos1er is getting REAL desperate lmao,

Chronz
06-26-2013, 10:56 AM
As you can see, Kobe is easily the most popular NBA player since Jordan.
This is false, as the report you just linked can inform us, Kobe's popularity has fluctuated depending on whether or not hes raping someone. Was his greatness diminished during that time period? Im pretty sure it was just the fact that people were turned off by him. Sometimes I wonder how MJ would have been viewed if all his vices were front and center, prolly wouldn't change much tho, he was beautifully marketed from day 1.


Hence the reason 100% of owners would build their team around a prime Kobe over a prime Lebron.
Proof? Im pretty sure the owners know that Kobe doesn't get to bring the Lakers brand with him. Do you have the numbers on how much Kobe is worth to the Lakers vs how much Bron meant to Clevelands economy?


Oh and his longevity certainly helps his case as well seeing as a franchise would be not only getting the max amount of revenue of any player since Jordan, but a longer duration of max revenue as well. It's a no brainer.
What if the owners value a player who gives them the best chance to win?

Delrayhc
06-26-2013, 11:09 AM
OP I get that Lebron will never get that draw in terms of popularity like Jordan or Kobe but why does any of this matter?

Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.


Post of the year!

Hero of the stupid or Kobe shoe shiner? Its one or the other so make your choice.

NYJ - NYY
06-26-2013, 11:22 AM
who cares mosler or whatever the **** you are pathetic to keep having to come back to this... go outside get laid guy or girl smoke weed booze do something you are a hemroid on the ******* of PSD

RiceOnTheRun
06-26-2013, 11:25 AM
False. There are times when the two overlap especially when the discussion turns to who teams would rather build their franchise around. When owners determine this, profitability is the number one factor. Hence it is a valid discussion point.

True. It's pretty crazy to think about how MJ still earns about 80 million dollars per year off his shoe sales ten years after his retirement. MJ is the ultimate cash cow and sets the golden standard for winning as well as profitability for both an individual player and a franchise.



Funny how people say they would build a franchise around Lebron rather than Jordan or Kobe despite the fact that both Jordan and Kobe have drawn in much more viewers and ticket holders over the years as well as merchandise and jersey sales. I don't know about you, but if I'm an owner, I always look at the bottom line above all else. Both Jordan and Kobe mean more money for your franchise, therefore it's a no brainer that 100% of NBA owners would build their teams around them over Lebron. Stats don't outweigh dollars and cents people. Case closed.

Firstly, MJ was a global icon, he was basically to basketball what Michael Jackson was to pop. There were legends before him and there will be legends after, but MJ's global impact on this generation at least will be unmatched. Lebron however, is probably having the same impact on kids now that MJ did when our generation witnessed his run at a younger age. In 2030, people are going to be saying "Oh, Meng Ling GOAT" while the 'old timers' argue for Lebron because he was the first guy to show them greatness, as MJ did before.

That being said, if you're James Dolan, Robert Sarver, Dan Gilbert or the like, then sure. If you're Mickey Arison, Peter Holt, Mark Cuban or Mikhail Prokhorov, profit means nothing to you.

Each owner operates differently, sure profit is a huge deal but to base building a team off a player just for marketability is flawed logic. Players are more marketable when they win, and in this case MJ tops it. I agree that he's definitely the most marketable athlete in the world, but your reasoning for taking him over LBJ is flawed. If you're talking about basketball skills, then fine you do have a case.


more amosler threads to discredit lebron and pump up kobe good job man

valade16
06-26-2013, 11:26 AM
Have the New York Knicks been a better team than the Spurs the last 10 years because they were more popular?

No?

There's your answer...

Lakeshow24KB
06-26-2013, 11:27 AM
Miami Heat franchise increased over 60% when James came over. They are now the 6th most valuable franchisee. Cleveland Cavailers dropped over 25% when James left. And only LAL fans would take Kobe over James. Actually, I'm not even sure most LAL fans would even take Kobe over James. Also, you use stats as an excuse but James also generates more money than Kobe does. LeBron's sneakers totaled $300,000,000+. Kobe? $50,000,000. So no, Kobe doesn't seem to beat James at anything these days.

The sneaker sales thing is a huge misconception. Lebrons are known to be not only a basketball shoe, but also one of the biggest casual shoes as well, while Kobes have grown to be strictly basketball shoes and there may be one or two colorways that are rockable casually. So Nike has to make more colorways that appeal to those who wear Lebrons off the court. And don't forget how Lebron's shoe is a high top, so Nike also has to make a low-top version of the shoe. And lastly, Lebron's shoe is $180 while Kobe's is $140, so that also plays in the role of it.

Pierzynski4Prez
06-26-2013, 11:38 AM
Not a fan of the casual fan determining greatness?

Not a fan of TV ratings determining greatness.

RiceOnTheRun
06-26-2013, 11:40 AM
Not a fan of TV ratings determining greatness.

So it's went from rings to TV ratings now. What's next, SI appearances?

Pierzynski4Prez
06-26-2013, 11:45 AM
So it's went from rings to TV ratings now. What's next, SI appearances?

OP will come up with something worse than that. NBA 2k covers?

Klivlend
06-26-2013, 11:48 AM
http://i.imgur.com/kInjTFP.gif

Hawkeye15
06-26-2013, 11:56 AM
so, we rank players on how many people watch them now?

justinnum1
06-26-2013, 11:57 AM
Lebron>kobe

tp13baby
06-26-2013, 11:59 AM
Lol. You have no idea how the Nielsen rating system works do you. They don't monitor every television set that tunes in, rather they monitor a pre selected sample size of all age groups and demographics and compare them to the total population in order to get an accurate number of people who are watching. Therefore, your little theory about them not accounting for the millions of people watching online is false as their age groups and demographics are already accounted for and included in the average. Perhaps you need to read up more on the subject...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_ratings

But don't pretend it isn't a flawed system. Any thing that has sample sizes and is based purely of estimation is flawed. Regardless of the small sample size they pick, DVR's are a big part of todays society since we are consistently moving. That doesn't reflect Nielson ratings. So if you add the fact that Lebron lives in the time today where recording is very common. And you also add the fact that a DVR wasn't invented until half way through Jordans career, there may be a reason why there is such a huge gap.

Either way the system is flawed and you can't disagree.

Sactown
06-26-2013, 12:01 PM
Because Cleveland is such a large market...

I don't image that spurs Cleveland series drew in to many people...

ATX
06-26-2013, 12:02 PM
OP will come up with something worse than that. NBA 2k covers?

:laugh2:

rocket
06-26-2013, 12:07 PM
I'm confused? So your say LeBron will never be Jordan because of ammount of people who watched him on TV? :laugh:

Even if that's the case, there are like 20 million watching online lol

Chronz
06-26-2013, 12:07 PM
Not a fan of TV ratings determining greatness.
Casual fans are what make up the TV market. Every real fan knows they will watch every Finals they can. I honestly cant remember the last Finals I missed.

Chronz
06-26-2013, 12:08 PM
I'm confused? So your say LeBron will never be Jordan because of ammount of people who watched him on TV? :laugh:

Even if that's the case, there are like 20 million watching online lol

What about youtube clicks? Arent people technically watching that player and arent there people advertising on said videos?

rocket
06-26-2013, 12:10 PM
What about youtube clicks? Arent people technically watching that player and arent there people advertising on said videos?

Good point

HouRealCoach
06-26-2013, 12:13 PM
Would of, should of, could of...

:facepalm: would've could've should've...?

G-Menn!
06-26-2013, 12:18 PM
Everyone has their opinions, I guess.
I have no thoughts about this situation because I choose to wait until we see LeBron's full resume before I get myself involved in ranking him among the greats.

Ever since Jordan left, the interest in the NBA died, and it is hard to get someone to watch the NBA again once their hero/fav player retired.
It's kind of like someone quitting the gym, once you do, it would take a lot more than interest to get you going.

valade16
06-26-2013, 12:19 PM
But don't pretend it isn't a flawed system. Any thing that has sample sizes and is based purely of estimation is flawed. Regardless of the small sample size they pick, DVR's are a big part of todays society since we are consistently moving. That doesn't reflect Nielson ratings. So if you add the fact that Lebron lives in the time today where recording is very common. And you also add the fact that a DVR wasn't invented until half way through Jordans career, there may be a reason why there is such a huge gap.

Either way the system is flawed and you can't disagree.

I understand what you're getting at, and yes the system is flawed.

However, there were more people watching Jordan's finals than LeBron's.

Chronz
06-26-2013, 12:21 PM
It's kind of like someone quitting the gym, once you do, it would take a lot more than interest to get you going.

No wonder...... never thought of it that way thx

Hawkeye15
06-26-2013, 12:24 PM
No wonder...... never thought of it that way thx

there is something to that. My dad was an insane basketball fan back then. He hasn't watched the NBA in years. All the attitudes, me first athletes, tattoos and money have turned a lot of the older generation away.

RiLoc
06-26-2013, 12:30 PM
I'm confused? So your say LeBron will never be Jordan because of ammount of people who watched him on TV? :laugh:This.

TheIlladelph16
06-26-2013, 12:58 PM
Well this is a troll thread if I have ever seen one.


Just as all the Heat poster's lives are about defending and hyping your own team, and geeking out about any threads such as this. It's a constant trend on here. A Laker fan makes a thread making Lebron look bad, Heat fans rush to the scene in defense and whine about everything.
You all need to 'look in the mirror'. The game you love to watch is being less enjoyable because of your actions on this site.

The OP is definitely being annoying, but the numbers are actually interesting to me. I always felt it was more of an event when the Bulls were in the finals, even Laker's Shaq/Kobe. Thought I was being naive but this just confirms it for me, which is cool to know.

The thread title could use some work tho.

Oh come off it man. OP is literally one of the Top 10 reasons why the NBA forum generally sucks and has continued to get worse. This is a thread that is clearly intended to bait Heat/Lebron fans by equating the ****king Nielson Ratings to who teams should build their franchise around. You came in here with the sole intention of sh*tting on Lebron just like Amoser did and just like the Heat/Lebron fans came in to defend Lebron.

This is honestly one of the dumbest in a long line of third-grade level threads/posts by OP filled with Youtube links and nonsense. The fact that your even coming to the defense of this thread says all it needs to about your intentions as a poster.

Stinkyoutsider
06-26-2013, 01:03 PM
Jordan is the Muhammad Ali of basketball so I don't expect Lebron to surpass him at all.

G-Menn!
06-26-2013, 01:05 PM
Well this is a troll thread if I have ever seen one.



Oh come off it man. OP is literally one of the Top 10 reasons why the NBA forum generally sucks and has continued to get worse. This is a thread that is clearly intended to bait Heat/Lebron fans by equating the ****king Nielson Ratings to who teams should build their franchise around. You came in here with the sole intention of sh*tting on Lebron just like Amoser did and just like the Heat/Lebron fans came in to defend Lebron.

This is honestly one of the dumbest in a long line of third-grade level threads/posts by OP filled with Youtube links and nonsense. The fact that your even coming to the defense of this thread says all it needs to about your intentions as a poster.

:clap:

WadeCounty
06-26-2013, 01:18 PM
I think we need to be clear that there's basketball discussion then there's business discussion. Despite the attempts of the article writer to conflate the two with that headline, this is very much the latter.

No, LBJ is not nearly the marketing and transcendental global phenom that MJ was. Not even close, I'm guessing.

No, that isn't relevant at all to the usual comparisons people care about (which are purely basketball related), and any attempts to pretend it is relevant is completely ridiculous and trolly.

This, someone with a brain around here. This is called Prosportsdaily not TvRatingsdaily. Misleading title and obvious troll attempt. Either change the title or close the thread.

Mr.ATLHawks
06-26-2013, 01:37 PM
By most people I take it you are referring to the flurry of Lebronites on this site seeing as how most credible experts don't really see it that way.

And who are theese credible experts? If im not mistaken Lebron did win MVP with only 1 vote not going his way....so who are these credible guys who think Kobe is better then Lebron present day?

Mr.ATLHawks
06-26-2013, 01:44 PM
and The casual NBA fan is an idiot. Kris Humphries went from an unknown to trump Lebron as the most hated basketball player because of Kim Kardashian.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-26-2013, 01:48 PM
How can he be another human being?

WadeKobe
06-26-2013, 02:57 PM
Oh and to the people blaming internet viewership, Kobe's finals ratings are all higher than Lebron's as well. Since Jordan, Kobe has been the number one draw in ratings both nationally and worldwide.

You're not very smart, are you?

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

if LA doesn't have more viewers for the finals, than Clev or Mia, something is wrong.

Ebbs
06-26-2013, 03:00 PM
Popularity doesn't = greatness. So Kevin Love is not as good as Amare because more people watch Amare?

sammyvine
06-26-2013, 03:01 PM
lebron will never be an icon like jordan lol. no nba player will

i cant see any nba player have a brand like ''jordan brand''/

Minimal
06-26-2013, 04:10 PM
Judging legacies by ammount of viewers? Can it be even more stupid?
Chicago is the most profitable franchise in NBA, Miami is average. Times changed, technology changed.

tredigs
06-26-2013, 04:20 PM
I'm enjoying the fact that Amos1 has now become a parody of himself. It leads me to think that it's one big act and he's not this dumb after all.

NYtilIdie
06-26-2013, 04:27 PM
Wow. What a reach you have.

sunnyice
06-26-2013, 04:31 PM
Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

LMAOROFLOL :laugh:

This line should be sig'd

IKnowHoops
06-26-2013, 04:33 PM
I guess from your logic, Franchises would rather start with Rajon rhondo over Kevin Durant. What do you think about the huge disparity in shoe sales between Letween Bron and Kobe of 300mil to 50 mil in bronx favor. I'd bet that the tv ratings have more to do with Kobe being an LA laker and Cali being so much larger than cleveland or Miami. Also the hate for the big three as well. If it was soley on Kobe being more popular than Bron, then his shoe sales would also be higher, not embarrassingly no where close.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2013, 04:47 PM
This is why I need to Mod in here... Clearly a troll thread from the start and the guy is one of the big reasons why this area is as bad as it is... BAN HAMMER

HouRealCoach
06-26-2013, 04:51 PM
I don't think LeBron will ever pass Jordan either but this sure as hell isn't the reason lol

Guppyfighter
06-26-2013, 04:57 PM
This thread is why the NBA forum is the worst of the big three.

XD_MoNeY
06-26-2013, 05:13 PM
Now TV VIEWS matter when deciding who is the greater player? lol:laugh:

Shkelqim
06-26-2013, 05:17 PM
No matter what, They will find something..

Knick_Fever
06-26-2013, 05:17 PM
Can we please stop making threads comparing Lebron to kobe or Jordan? Everyone knows that Jordan is the best ever. He dominated an era of big men. Let it go.

kingkenny01
06-26-2013, 05:48 PM
did not realize that tv ratings determine who are good players because then Jeremy Lin must be one of the best in the NBA

bholly
06-26-2013, 06:01 PM
If you don't care than why respond in the first place and try to make an argument in favor of Lebron being more popular than Kobe in the first place? Oh and these "business stats" are based off basketball in that they reflect the popular opinion of nearly all basketball fans in the world. Which in turn is a major factor in determining a players greatness. In the end, it's all about perception. Advantage Kobe.

lol, what? I did what now?

All I did was point out some of the extra info you'd need to make a real argument here. I even said I expect that Kobe is more popular.

Just because someone thinks you're wrong doesn't mean they're jumping on the other side of whatever dichotomous argument you've dreamed up.

zn23
06-26-2013, 06:07 PM
He'll never be Michael. But if he keeps it up, I think he can be better than Magic though.

ElChinoLatino
06-26-2013, 06:07 PM
Lol bro you have to do better than that because last time I checked, popularity doesn't win championships. Try again.

Nycbball08
06-26-2013, 06:28 PM
I think DNA proves that as well...:facepalm:

AllDay28
06-26-2013, 06:34 PM
Lol I'm a trailblazer fan so I'm not taking sides , but this guy that started the thread just sounds like he is out to get lebron and wants to kiss Kobe's feet

SportsFanatic10
06-26-2013, 07:12 PM
hahaha, amos1er's threads just keep getting more and more pathetic as he reaches harder and harder for something anything to make kobe look better then lebron when the simple true is he isn't. one day maybe he'll accept it but that's a lot to ask of someone with so little common sense and such a clear agenda.

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 09:53 PM
Do you have anything other than your word to back this up?

Oh, and Nike dropping Kobe because of the rape doesn't affect his sneaker sales or anything. lol As if the franchise actually gets any of the money from sneaker sales anyways.

Oh, and ten years after his retirement, MJ still earns 80 mill a year from his sneaker deals.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/02/14/how-michael-jordan-still-earns-80-million-a-year/

You had Kobe in there too, not only MJ. Obviously MJ is the king of marketing. And your Nielsen thing is completely false, maybe you need to do some research.

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 10:00 PM
I feel bad for AmoLoser, this dude really spends his time finding ways to hate LeBron. James has long surpassed Kobe in terms of skill. The only reason why he brings these things up is because he's threatened by LeBron beating his boy Kobe, and eventually Jordan. He can't find any legitimate facts so he just throws random and pointless information out there.

Mell413
06-26-2013, 10:04 PM
It actually sounded like an interesting topic. I should have checked to see to see who started the thread. Not sure why drawing power matters for basketball players. This isn't wrestling we are talking about here.

RLundi
06-26-2013, 10:05 PM
Amos1er, you're better than this. Idk if its been mentioned, but I wonder if ratings account for DVR viewership. A lot of people I know don't watch ANYTHING live anymore. I'm sure it wouldn't be that significant a number but still.

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 10:11 PM
The sneaker sales thing is a huge misconception. Lebrons are known to be not only a basketball shoe, but also one of the biggest casual shoes as well, while Kobes have grown to be strictly basketball shoes and there may be one or two colorways that are rockable casually. So Nike has to make more colorways that appeal to those who wear Lebrons off the court. And don't forget how Lebron's shoe is a high top, so Nike also has to make a low-top version of the shoe. And lastly, Lebron's shoe is $180 while Kobe's is $140, so that also plays in the role of it.

Kobe's sneaker is $140 because demand isn't high. Economics 101, demand determines the price. LeBron's sneakers are high demand. It doesn't matter about what type of base his market is pursuing, people are buying them whether for fashion purposes or basketball. Refer to Jordan, people buy them for fashionable reasons.

http://whistleblows.com/2010/12/lebrons-financial-impact-on-cleveland/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/life-after-lebron-how-clevelands-economy-is-faring_n_1582328.html

When LeBron left the Cavailers, it was far bigger of an impact to the team than the economy. The state suffered a huge decrease in tourism and revenue. People came to watch LeBron, and they stopped showing up when he left. If Kobe leaves, someone will just replace him and take his role. So in reality, Kobe doesn't have a bigger impact than James. You LAL fans are hilarious. LeBron makes more in endorsements, LeBron generates more in sneaker sales, LeBron sells more jerseys. Have a nice day, hater.

D-Leethal
06-26-2013, 10:12 PM
Epic fail. You gotta do better than that bro.

Knick_Fever
06-26-2013, 10:19 PM
I feel bad for AmoLoser, this dude really spends his time finding ways to hate LeBron. James has long surpassed Kobe in terms of skill. The only reason why he brings these things up is because he's threatened by LeBron beating his boy Kobe, and eventually Jordan. He can't find any legitimate facts so he just throws random and pointless information out there.

:laugh:

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 10:20 PM
:laugh:

You're laughing but he's already achieved more than Jordan by the age of 29.

3RDASYSTEM
06-26-2013, 10:32 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/21/kobe-bryant-is-americas-most-popular-athlete-didnt-see-that-coming-did-you/



http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/31472/life-is-a-big-popularity-contest-and-kobe-bryant-is-winning



As you can see, Kobe is easily the most popular NBA player since Jordan. Hence the reason 100% of owners would build their team around a prime Kobe over a prime Lebron. Oh and his longevity certainly helps his case as well seeing as a franchise would be not only getting the max amount of revenue of any player since Jordan, but a longer duration of max revenue as well. It's a no brainer.

i'd bet the house that if players and careers were switched you be defending BRON like crazy, bashing bean with the same poppycock, I could only imagine had LA drafted a SHAQ/ALCINDOR/WILT/LEBRON how insanely popular they would be in laker nation and domestically plus historically, the hype would be unreal now add global aspect, checkmate

RiceOnTheRun
06-26-2013, 10:41 PM
Sometimes I wonder if Amos1er actually expects one day, for everyone on PSD to just come into his threads and agree with him. Normally, he jumps in, sets up shop for a few posts and disappears when people shut him down.

smiddy012
06-26-2013, 10:50 PM
You're laughing but he's already achieved more than Jordan by the age of 29.

That's a terrible talking point you never seem to get tired of. But if that's what you got to do to make Lebrons numbers look comparable that's what you gotta do.

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 10:52 PM
That's a terrible talking point you never seem to get tired of. But if that's what you got to do to make Lebrons numbers look comparable that's what you gotta do.

And why isn't this argument legitimate? LeBron is ahead of Michael at the same age. If you don't like it, don't pay attention to it. It's still a fact you can't argue against.

3RDASYSTEM
06-26-2013, 10:59 PM
lebron will never be an icon like jordan lol. no nba player will

i cant see any nba player have a brand like ''jordan brand''/

but his hardwood impact is right on par or passed it, he took a squad to FINALS at 22yrs of age when JORDAN was basically that age upon entering the nba, that's some serious impact coming straight out of HS and your big man is big Z, he's not on PIPP nor on GRANT or OAKLEY level, and JORDAN had all those players in his first 4yrs if my memory serve correct

I just know they are two of the best ever to lace'em up

Delrayhc
06-26-2013, 11:13 PM
:laugh:

You're laughing but he's already achieved more than Jordan by the age of 29.

Dude you gotta keep it real. LBJs straight outta high school so hes got 4 years on Jordan by the age of 29. Perspective...

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 11:13 PM
Jordan: 1-10 in the playoffs. Never made it out of the first round.
Had the luxury to play with the greatest rebounder of all time and one of the greatest defenders of all time.

LeBron James: Takes a scrub team to the NBA finals with Larry Hughes being their second leading scorer.

You tell me the difference. LeBron receives hate for losing the finals, but Jordan can't even get to the NBA finals without Pippen.

OceanSpray
06-26-2013, 11:15 PM
Dude you gotta keep it real. LBJs straight outta high school so hes got 4 years on Jordan by the age of 29. Perspective...

And Jordan had the luxury of going to college basketball. I don't care how you put it, when it's all said and done, no one is going to say a thing about their time in the NBA. No one said a thing about Kareem, so don't contradict yourself and do the same for another player. LeBron James may had have four years, but to come out of H.S and never missing a beat?

b@llhog24
06-26-2013, 11:17 PM
Amos giving delusionist some competition for worst poster on PSD. Close but no cigar.

ryang
06-26-2013, 11:31 PM
Jordan played in a era that he transformed because he was marketed more then anyone in the history of sports. So if Lebron wins 7 rings he won't be considered better then Jordan? I don't think he will get 7 but lets let his career play out. Also this thread is beyond ********. So James can't pass Jordan because more people watched the nba when Jordan was playing? Just dumb. Personally I think Jordan was the better basketball player. Lebron is the better human being. Lbj IMO is a better defender, rebounder and passer. Still have mj ahead of Lebron by a long shot and that won't ever change but Lebron is a great basketball player. Try and enjoy it a little and stop crying like a little *****.

Achilles24
06-26-2013, 11:42 PM
Jordan: 1-10 in the playoffs. Never made it out of the first round.
Had the luxury to play with the greatest rebounder of all time and one of the greatest defenders of all time.

LeBron James: Takes a scrub team to the NBA finals with Larry Hughes being their second leading scorer.

You tell me the difference. LeBron receives hate for losing the finals, but Jordan can't even get to the NBA finals without Pippen.

Well, if Michael played with the greatest rebounder of all time (not true as that title belongs to Wilt or Bill Russell) and one of the greatest defenders of all time, then LeBron played with the greatest shooter of all time and what many say as a top 3-4 shooting guard of all time.

goingfor28
06-26-2013, 11:49 PM
MJ 6 for 6 w 6 finals MVP, 0 game 7s

Lebron 2 for 4 w 2 finals MVP, 2 game 7s

Not even close

MJ>>>>>>>LBJ

akesh99
06-26-2013, 11:51 PM
This is so stupid amoser pulling articles from 2010 about how Kobe was popular of course his jersey sales were #1 back then now Lebron has taken over

amos1er
06-27-2013, 12:46 AM
This is so stupid amoser pulling articles from 2010 about how Kobe was popular of course his jersey sales were #1 back then now Lebron has taken over

Think you need to check the date again bud. Some of them were from 2012. Kobe is much more popular worldwide.

http://blog.lakers.com/lakers/2012/06/21/bryant-has-most-popular-nba-jersey-internationally/

RiceOnTheRun
06-27-2013, 12:52 AM
Jordan: 1-10 in the playoffs. Never made it out of the first round.
Had the luxury to play with the greatest rebounder of all time and one of the greatest defenders of all time.

LeBron James: Takes a scrub team to the NBA finals with Larry Hughes being their second leading scorer.

You tell me the difference. LeBron receives hate for losing the finals, but Jordan can't even get to the NBA finals without Pippen.

Preach. He may be behind career-wise but he has a long ways to go. If his career was to end today, MJ would still be the GOAT. But call me in 2020 and we'll see where he's at then.

RulerSlick
06-27-2013, 02:49 AM
Lebron is bigger.more popular than Kobe....I don't know why this is still a debate. These are articles mainly from 2013

1. 2013 NBA top-selling jerseys

http://www.ballerstatus.com/2013/04/09/carmelo-anthony-tops-nbas-2013-list-top-selling-jerseys/


The NBA unveiled their 2013 top-selling jerseys list on Tuesday (April 9), and it's the New York Knicks' Carmelo Anthony who claims the #1 spot.

The Knicks superstar rose from #4 to take the #1 spot from reigning NBA Finals MVP LeBron James of the Miami Heat, who slipped to #2. While this marks Anthony's debut at #1, James’ jersey has topped the list four times, and the Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant -- who lands at #4 this year -- has held the position seven times.

So, LeBron "fell" all the way to #2 on the list. Which is to say, 2 spots higher than Kobe and one spot behind a NYC-based player (part of the 'best-selling' data has to do with sales at the NYC NBA store) who finished the regular season on a tear and made fans believe he was a serious MVP candidate and the Knicks were a serious playoff contender.

Check back in with Carmelo and his jersey sales in a few months.

2. Top-paid USA and world athletes in 2013

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/9277146/floyd-mayweather-jr-top-paid-us-athlete-2013-sports-illustrated = USA List

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-highest-paid-athletes-2013-5 = World List

You see there that LeBron James is the second-highest paid athlete for 2013, behind only Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

What you also see, at the first link, is that James' 2013 endorsement earnings = $39,000,000. Which is $20,000,000 more than Kobe Bryant, more than Tiger Woods and more than Phil Mickelson. James' endorsement earnings total is greater than any other USA athlete, which means it's greater than any other NBA player.

It should be easy to understand that you have to be popular/likable for endorsers to hire you.

3. LeBron is huge internationally
http://micgadget.com/34233/infographic-lebron-james-is-the-most-popular-western-celebrity-on-chinese-social-media/

Infographic: LeBron James is the Most Popular Western Celebrity on Chinese Social Media

Synthesio, a global social-media monitoring company, has created an infographic to tell us who are the top 25 most popular western celebrities on Chinese social media. It listened to the top 50 celebrities from Forbes’ “The World’s Most Powerful Celebrities” list, and monitored China’s top social-media sites, including Sina Weibo (China’s Twitter), Renren (China’s Facebook) and Tencent Weibo. As the infographic reveals, Chinese social-media users love NBA, basketball player LeBron James takes the top spot, followed by Rihanna and Justin Bieber, respectively. Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift round out the top five.

4. Just in case you are at all confused by the Carmelo top-selling jersey thing

http://www.forbes.com/profile/carmelo-anthony/

***

So, to summarize:

* LeBron had the #2 best-selling NBA jersey this year
* LeBron is the second-highest paid athlete in the world (2013)
* LeBron has the largest endorsement income of any NBA player or USA athlete in 2013
* LeBron is the most popular Western celebrity on Chinese social media
* Carmelo Anthony's endorsement earnings seem to be about 1/5th or so what LeBron's are

There's really not a lot to say.

I remember people complaining about all of the Samsung Galaxy ads featuring LeBron that came out, what was it, at the start of the NBA season. LeBron is everywhere, and if he wins another ring this year, this is only the beginning.

Just to help put all of this into perspective, here are the 2012 endorsement incomes for tennis mega-stars Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. Both of whom have been very well-known on the international scene for around 10 years (Nadal won his first major in 2005; Federer won his first major in 2003):

Nadal (2012) = $25M
http://onforb.es/18Dw685

Federer (2012) = $45M
http://onforb.es/18DwaVq

And I think Federer's endorsement number has gone down. Still, he's a monster in endorsement income and always has been. Which isn't surprising given he has won the most men's singles majors in the history of the sport, speaks multiple languages and basically has almost no "dirty laundry" in his background.

I think some people may wish that LeBron wasn't as popular as he was. But he's very, very popular. The only player who is probably even close to LeBron, globally, in popularity is Kobe. Still, Kobe was #4 on the jersey list this year and was #3 on that same list last year. And with his age and current injury issue, it's not clear Kobe will regain the status he formerly enjoyed.

Of course, if LeBron and the Heat crash out of these playoffs either in the Eastern Conference Finals or to the Spurs in the Finals, then LeBron's popularity would likely take a hit.

For now though, it seems inarguable that he is currently the most popular NBA player in the world. He's not MJ popular, and probably never will be, but no one else ever was, either.

.
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some other stuff and more recent

LeBron James Is The NBA's Leading Shoe Salesman
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/05/22/lebron-james-is-the-nbas-leading-shoe-salesmen/


LeBron James is in the hunt for a second straight NBA championship after leading the Miami Heat to an NBA-best 66 wins during the regular season. It has been a wildly successful 12-month run for King James, as he established himself as the NBA’s biggest star since Michael Jordan. James led the Heat on a 27-game winning streak. He added another NBA MVP trophy (for a total of four), an Olympic gold medal and his first title over the past year. The game’s most dominant player is also crushing the competition in stores, outselling his nearest rival’s signature sneakers 6-to-1.

Nike generated $300 million in U.S. retail sales in 2012 for James’ signature shoes, according to research firm SportsOneSource. Nike’s haul represents a 50% increase from sales of James’ kicks in 2011. “The first thing is the aesthetics. The shoes look great and his star stature continues to rise,” says SportsOneSource analyst Matt Powell. “The media attention on him helps him sell more footwear.”

The second best-selling active NBA pitchman is Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers. His Kobe 8 signature shoes sold $50 million at U.S. stores last year. Bryant has been part of the Nike family since 2003. The 15-time All-Star was an Adidas athlete for the first six years of his career. Bryant’s shoe sales in the U.S. were down in 2012, but he is the NBA’s biggest star in China and his Nike sneakers sell briskly in Asia.

U.S. Retail Basketball Shoe Sales

LeBron James (Nike): $300 million

Kobe Bryant (Nike): $50 million

Carmelo Anthony (Jordan): $40 million

Kevin Durant (Nike): $35 million

Derrick Rose (Adidas): $25 million

John Wall (Reebok): $5 million

Dwight Howard (Adidas): $5 million





LeBron James' market share
Didn't see much of LeBron during commercial timeouts? That's by design

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9420455/lebron-james-market-share


Even before this second NBA championship, LeBron's marketing strategists had completely redefined the dynamic between a sponsor and celebrity endorser, at least in the realm of the iconic athlete. The topic comes up not only because LeBron's second title leads us to look at his immediate future, on and off the court, but also because the perception in some quarters is that he had a relatively low commercial profile on television during the playoffs.

In this day and age, the bottom line means strengthening the brand, which may trump any other measurement in popular culture. And not many brands are as high profile as LeBron's these days, even though he still has his critics. With Forbes reporting LeBron's endorsement income at $42 million last year, he trails only Tiger Woods, Roger Federer ($65 million each) and Phil Mickelson ($44 million) in that category. But Forbes also reports that his second NBA title will probably mean a $5 million to $7 million increase in endorsement income in 2013 (and that estimate could be conservative given that NBA 2K14 is going to be LeBron's first video game cover). You wonder how much Peyton Manning's endorsement portfolio is worth? It was estimated by Forbes to be $12 million last year. Drew Brees: $11 million. Aaron Rodgers: $6 million. Usain Bolt: $24 million.

Yet, there's no risk in terms of the strategy. Forbes reports that LeBron is the highest-ranked athlete in the world and 23rd overall in terms of his "web rank," meaning he's ahead of Tiger, David Beckham, Kobe, Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi and, for that matter, Tom Cruise and Reese Witherspoon. Forbes ranks LeBron 15th in celebrity power, behind people like Jennifer Lopez, Oprah Winfrey and Justin Bieber, but ahead of every athlete except Tiger.

RulerSlick
06-27-2013, 02:57 AM
let's not forget that as much as we think lebron is hated after that "Decision" fiasco, he's not as hated by people as Kobe is which is why Kobe was on the recent "The 10 Most Disliked Athletes In America" and Lebron wasn't

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45jmfd/kobe-bryant-4/



Kobe Bryant

Guard, Los Angeles Lakers
Appeal: 27%
Always polarizing, and still feeling residual heat from a 10-year-old rape allegation that was never prosecuted.

FraziersKnicks
06-27-2013, 04:22 AM
Amos1er, I think you're RulerSlick's ***** now :laugh2:

smiddy012
06-27-2013, 04:22 AM
Jordan: 1-10 in the playoffs. Never made it out of the first round.
Had the luxury to play with the greatest rebounder of all time and one of the greatest defenders of all time.

LeBron James: Takes a scrub team to the NBA finals with Larry Hughes being their second leading scorer.

You tell me the difference. LeBron receives hate for losing the finals, but Jordan can't even get to the NBA finals without Pippen.

Pippen was not a top 5 player in the league kid, unlike Wade. Rodman was only on the Bulls for 3 of their rings, and he was not considered a top 15 player in the league.

Oh and, hypothetically, if you were to compare the terrible East Lebron had to get though to say, the Celtics or Pistons MJ had to deal with, you'd realize that Lebron didn't do anything as a Cav that MJ couldn't have (except perhaps choke in the finals).

You are an incredibly ignorant and stubborn Lebron fanboy. Funny how you overlook the 3 extra years Lebron has had in the league with your fallacious statistical comparisons.

Here's a couple fun stats for you to look up. What are the most blocks and steals Lebron ever got in one season? What about MJ? There's a good statistical comparison for you.

MJ never played a game 7 during the finals, he was too good for that. MJ also never lost a playoff series with HCA as he went 24-0 with it.

Lebron is one of the greatest players ever. But he will never be the goat. Get over it.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:50 AM
Lebron is bigger.more popular than Kobe....I don't know why this is still a debate. These are articles mainly from 2013

1. 2013 NBA top-selling jerseys

http://www.ballerstatus.com/2013/04/09/carmelo-anthony-tops-nbas-2013-list-top-selling-jerseys/



So, LeBron "fell" all the way to #2 on the list. Which is to say, 2 spots higher than Kobe and one spot behind a NYC-based player (part of the 'best-selling' data has to do with sales at the NYC NBA store) who finished the regular season on a tear and made fans believe he was a serious MVP candidate and the Knicks were a serious playoff contender.

Check back in with Carmelo and his jersey sales in a few months.

2. Top-paid USA and world athletes in 2013

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/9277146/floyd-mayweather-jr-top-paid-us-athlete-2013-sports-illustrated = USA List

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-highest-paid-athletes-2013-5 = World List

You see there that LeBron James is the second-highest paid athlete for 2013, behind only Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

What you also see, at the first link, is that James' 2013 endorsement earnings = $39,000,000. Which is $20,000,000 more than Kobe Bryant, more than Tiger Woods and more than Phil Mickelson. James' endorsement earnings total is greater than any other USA athlete, which means it's greater than any other NBA player.

It should be easy to understand that you have to be popular/likable for endorsers to hire you.

3. LeBron is huge internationally
http://micgadget.com/34233/infographic-lebron-james-is-the-most-popular-western-celebrity-on-chinese-social-media/


4. Just in case you are at all confused by the Carmelo top-selling jersey thing

http://www.forbes.com/profile/carmelo-anthony/

***

So, to summarize:

* LeBron had the #2 best-selling NBA jersey this year
* LeBron is the second-highest paid athlete in the world (2013)
* LeBron has the largest endorsement income of any NBA player or USA athlete in 2013
* LeBron is the most popular Western celebrity on Chinese social media
* Carmelo Anthony's endorsement earnings seem to be about 1/5th or so what LeBron's are

There's really not a lot to say.

I remember people complaining about all of the Samsung Galaxy ads featuring LeBron that came out, what was it, at the start of the NBA season. LeBron is everywhere, and if he wins another ring this year, this is only the beginning.

Just to help put all of this into perspective, here are the 2012 endorsement incomes for tennis mega-stars Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. Both of whom have been very well-known on the international scene for around 10 years (Nadal won his first major in 2005; Federer won his first major in 2003):

Nadal (2012) = $25M
http://onforb.es/18Dw685

Federer (2012) = $45M
http://onforb.es/18DwaVq

And I think Federer's endorsement number has gone down. Still, he's a monster in endorsement income and always has been. Which isn't surprising given he has won the most men's singles majors in the history of the sport, speaks multiple languages and basically has almost no "dirty laundry" in his background.

I think some people may wish that LeBron wasn't as popular as he was. But he's very, very popular. The only player who is probably even close to LeBron, globally, in popularity is Kobe. Still, Kobe was #4 on the jersey list this year and was #3 on that same list last year. And with his age and current injury issue, it's not clear Kobe will regain the status he formerly enjoyed.

Of course, if LeBron and the Heat crash out of these playoffs either in the Eastern Conference Finals or to the Spurs in the Finals, then LeBron's popularity would likely take a hit.

For now though, it seems inarguable that he is currently the most popular NBA player in the world. He's not MJ popular, and probably never will be, but no one else ever was, either.

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some other stuff and more recent

LeBron James Is The NBA's Leading Shoe Salesman
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/05/22/lebron-james-is-the-nbas-leading-shoe-salesmen/





LeBron James' market share
Didn't see much of LeBron during commercial timeouts? That's by design

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9420455/lebron-james-market-share


What a waste of typing only to prove nothing. Kobe is more popular internationally. The data you just provided was all US based. Guess what...there are way more people in the world than just the US. Internationally there are four to five times as many people. Worldwide Kobe is the man. It's just here in the US that everybody falls into the marketing hype of Nike, Gatorade, and Sprite. The free thinkers of the world all support Kobe and Jordan over Lebron. US is backward in many ways unfortunately. With all of our advantages, the US is only the fourth smartest country in the world.

http://amazingworld2014.blogspot.com/2013/05/smartest-countries-in-world-2012.html

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:54 AM
Amos1er, I think you're RulerSlick's ***** now :laugh2:

You'll just believe what you want to believe no matter what.

ryang
06-27-2013, 04:56 AM
Wow. Ignorance from people like you are why America is the 4th whatever the **** your talkin about. Your ray finkle.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 05:00 AM
Kobe Bryant Is The Most Popular NBA Star Outside The USA

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1300916-kobe-bryant-and-the-10-most-nba-popular-stars-outside-the-usa/page/11


It's easy to see why, what with his constant greatness, his icon status on one of the two most internationally-visible franchises and even his little international connection with Italy, Kobe Bryant is the most popular basketball player in the world.

Kobe was the best player in the NBA when international interest was peaking, growing to a huge level in the late '90s and exploding beyond that with the Chinese market rumbled onto the scene in the early 2000s. It's easy to gravitate to the best player in the NBA.

Bryant not only has the best-selling jersey internationally, but it's the best-selling jersey in each individual region, leading in Europe, Latin America and China, the three biggest international markets the NBA chases.

It seems that people all over the world love Kobe, even if he does get constant scrutiny in the good ol' U-S-of-A.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 05:01 AM
Wow. Ignorance from people like you are why America is the 4th whatever the **** your talkin about. Your ray finkle.

Some studies actually have us placed lower. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm not the one saying it...just the one posting it.

bholly
06-27-2013, 05:16 AM
lol. show me some studies about which are the 'smartest countries in the world', please. i'm fascinated.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 05:35 AM
Love how you all say Lebron is already top ten, yet there is not credible published list that has him in the top ten. It's only here on PSD that everyone acts like it's common knowledge and resorts calling you childish names and throwing temper tantrums if you disagree with them. It's like the Lebronites of the world got together and congregated onto this site.

http://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-best-nba-players-of-all-time/

http://www.sportscity.com/whos-the-best-of-all-time-the-top-10-players-in-nba-history/2013/04/05/

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/02/15/the-50-best-players-in-nba-history-may-surprise-you/#slide_37

http://www.wonderslist.com/top-10-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time/

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2013/03/top-50-nba-players-of-all-time/#46

http://www.celticslife.com/2013/01/ranking-top-ten-players-in-nba-history.html

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/404920-the-nbas-top-50-players-of-all-time

All of these list have Kobe at 7 and Lebron anywhere from 16-14. Funny how some of you don't even have Kobe in your top ten, yet have Lebron there while no published list agrees with any of you. Looks to me like your all the lone quacks trying to convince everybody that your idol is better then he really is. All are recent lists btw. Even celticslife.com has Kobe at 6. lol I defy any of you to provide one published top ten of all time list that has Lebron in it. I'm sure you can't because it doesn't exist. Case closed.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 05:36 AM
lol. show me some studies about which are the 'smartest countries in the world', please. i'm fascinated.

It's all over the web. I published one already. Most seem to have Canada, Europe, Palestine, and Japan over the US. Find me one that has the US at number one or even in the top three for that matter. We may have some of the smartest people on earth living here, but it's the overall average that brings us down. Basically, we are very top heavy. We attract the best of the best, and also the worst of the worst.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 05:44 AM
Amoser is an awful human being.

ztilzer31
06-27-2013, 05:48 AM
PSD would be a better place without Amos1er.

This is a fact.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 05:50 AM
Amoser is an awful human being.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Truth hurts I know. You all overrate Lebron tremendously and someone has to be the one to break it to you. Guess thats me. lol

PSD...where you are called an awful human being if you don't think Lebron has already surpassed Kobe and is already top ten of all time. :pity:

Guess this is how Columbus felt when he tried to convince everyone the world is round.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 05:51 AM
PSD would be a better place without Amos1er.

This is a fact.

Someone has to keep it real in here...otherwise it would be a constant Lebron circle jerk session.

RulerSlick
06-27-2013, 06:21 AM
Kobe Bryant Is The Most Popular NBA Star Outside The USA

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1300916-kobe-bryant-and-the-10-most-nba-popular-stars-outside-the-usa/page/11

All of the links you're posting all are from 2010 to 2012. All of the links I posted are from 2013 and the most recent one if from like 3 days ago and they all confirm Lebron is more popular than Kobe.

RulerSlick
06-27-2013, 06:24 AM
What a waste of typing only to prove nothing. Kobe is more popular internationally. The data you just provided was all US based. Guess what...there are way more people in the world than just the US. Internationally there are four to five times as many people. Worldwide Kobe is the man.

This quote talks about lebron's WORLD RANKING


Yet, there's no risk in terms of the strategy. Forbes reports that LeBron is the highest-ranked athlete in the world and 23rd overall in terms of his "web rank," meaning he's ahead of Tiger, David Beckham, Kobe, Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi and, for that matter, Tom Cruise and Reese Witherspoon. Forbes ranks LeBron 15th in celebrity power, behind people like Jennifer Lopez, Oprah Winfrey and Justin Bieber, but ahead of every athlete except Tiger.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9420455/lebron-james-market-share

This article is from June 25 2013

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 06:30 AM
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Truth hurts I know. You all overrate Lebron tremendously and someone has to be the one to break it to you. Guess thats me. lol

PSD...where you are called an awful human being if you don't think Lebron has already surpassed Kobe and is already top ten of all time. :pity:

Guess this is how Columbus felt when he tried to convince everyone the world is round.


No, because you propagate ignorance and misinformation.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 06:50 AM
No, because you propagate ignorance and misinformation.

Thats exactly how I feel about y'all.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 06:57 AM
All of the links you're posting all are from 2010 to 2012. All of the links I posted are from 2013 and the most recent one if from like 3 days ago and they all confirm Lebron is more popular than Kobe.

Ugh...consistency. Kobe has had 15 years of being the most popular NBA player in the world, and now for one brief instant, conveniently right after the finals and Kobe's injury Lebron has Kobe beat in his web rank...LMAO. Of course more people are talking about him more on the web now that Kobe tore his achilles and he just won his second ring. Lets see how long this sticks. Again, consistency. This easily could be attributed to an outlier. Oh, and is web rank really all that telling. How about Kobe being the most popular NBA player in the Olympics wherever team USA played for the second consecutive time even after his 16th NBA season. Or Kobe still being the number one selling jersey worldwide. Lets see how well received Lebron is in a few years or if he even comes close to that. Longevity certainly favors Kobe in this one as well as career achievements. So Lebron pulled ahead in some meaningless area for a brief instant finally after 10 years...is that really enough to say he is more popular than Kobe career wise...I think not.

LBJ6
06-27-2013, 07:06 AM
Numbers Show LeBron James Will Never Be Michael Jordan No Matter How Many Titles He Wins



http://www.businessinsider.com/numbers-show-lebron-james-will-never-be-michael-jordan-2013-6

Interesting stuff...
Oh there you are again AmosLoser, still trying to find things to discredit your favorite player?

RulerSlick
06-27-2013, 07:13 AM
Ugh...consistency. Kobe has had 15 years of being the most popular NBA player in the world,

GFTO...KObe has never been the most popular players for 15 years straight in the NBA. There were points when Vince Carter and Iverson were both more popular. As long as lebron wins titles his popularity will increase. It's already been proven that winning titles and playing in bigger media markets go hand in hand with popularity. lebron would be even bigger/global if he accomplished his last 2 seasons on a team like the Knicks or Lakers because of the bigger markets than he is in Miami.

LBJ6
06-27-2013, 07:14 AM
AmosLoser, bottomline is Lebron is better than Kobe in everyway possible, give it up kiddo... your obsession for Lebron is so obvious.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 07:16 AM
AmosLoser, bottomline is Lebron is better than Kobe in everyway possible, give it up kiddo... your obsession for Lebron is so obvious.

Says the guy with a username of LBJ6. :rolleyes:

amos1er
06-27-2013, 07:22 AM
GFTO...KObe has never been the most popular players for 15 years straight in the NBA. There were points when Vince Carter and Iverson were both more popular. As long as lebron wins titles his popularity will increase. It's already been proven that winning titles and playing in bigger media markets go hand in hand with popularity. lebron would be even bigger/global if he accomplished his last 2 seasons on a team like the Knicks or Lakers because of the bigger markets than he is in Miami.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/basketball/story/2012-08-06/Bryant-most-popular-US-athlete/56878630/1


Kobe Bryant the most interesting man in the world?

LONDON – LeBron James is the best basketball player in the world.

Kevin Durant is trying to take that title.

But the world's most popular NBA player? That belongs to Kobe Bryant.

It's revealed in anecdotal evidence. At the U.S. men's introductory Olympic news conference in London on July 27, Bryant drew more attention from international journalists than any other U.S. player.

It's obvious during Team USA introductions before Olympic games when Bryant, who has spent his 16-year career with the Los Angeles Lakers, receives the loudest ovation.

There is tangible evidence to his worldwide popularity. For the sixth consecutive year, his jersey was the top seller in China, and when the NBA released its first list of top-selling international jerseys in June, Bryant's name was atop that list, too.

"In Asia, everything came to a head at the last Olympics (2008 in Beijing)," Bryant said. "In Europe last summer, we did a nice tour with Nike. The response was more than what we expected. At those two points, that's when we realized how big it is."

Bryant, 33, can't explain his global popularity.

"I don't know why," he said. "I have a hard time putting my finger on it."

But it's certainly there. At Wednesday's afternoon quarterfinals session, which did not include the U.S. team, about a dozen Kobe Bryant jerseys were spotted, including two guys sitting next to each other, one wearing a home jersey, the other a road. Mathieu Dufrenne, 26 of France bought his home jersey four years ago.

"In France, it's quite difficult to see the games, but you can see summaries of the games, and the best actions of the night always show Kobe Bryant, and it's been like that for years. Everybody knows Kobe Bryant," Dufrenne said.

When Dufrenne purchased his quarterfinal tickets, he didn't know which teams he would get to see. He will get to see France play Spain.

"Either way, I was going to see France or Kobe Bryant," he said.

Even opponents are fans

Bryant's popularity extends to players on upstart national teams. Reminiscent of opponents asking the 1992 Dream Team for autographs and posing for pictures with U.S. players, Tunisia's Mohamed Hadidane asked Bryant for an autograph after the USA's 110-63 victory in group play.

Bryant has attributes perfectly suited for global icon status. He spent part of his childhood in Italy, where his dad played professional basketball. He is a soccer fan, speaks Italian and Spanish and credits his Italian youth coach for developing his basketball IQ.

"I'm extremely fundamentally sound. That all comes from growing up overseas," Bryant said. "If you look at most of the guys here, a lot of guys do things off the dribble. I'm very comfortable in a triple-threat position. I'm very comfortable with pump fakes and jab steps and footwork.

"With my club team growing up, we'd have practices where you literally could not dribble the entire practice."

Though Bryant will be 34 at the end of the NBA season, he has passed his professional crossroads. That was five summers ago, when Bryant didn't know if he wanted to remain a Laker. He stayed and won two more titles.

He has also gotten past a personal crossroads. In 2003, Bryant was accused of sexually assaulting a 19-year-old woman in Eagle County, Colo. He pleaded not guilty, and the accuser eventually dropped the charges.

With two years left on his contract — $27.8 million in 2012-13 and $30.4 million in 2013-14 — Bryant has given brief consideration to his future. He recently told Yahoo he would consider playing a year in Europe after he retires from the Lakers.

"I don't put much thought into (retirement), but it's crossed my mind," Bryant said this week.

While he acknowledged he doesn't want to hang on just for the sake of hanging on, he realizes, "When you're accustomed to doing something your entire life and all of a sudden it's gone, it takes a lot of adjustment."

How many more seasons? "We'll see. Not many."

He still has unfinished business. Everyone knows he wants a sixth ring, not as much to catch Hall of Famer Michael Jordan but because he just wants to win. He knows time is running out.

The Oklahoma City Thunder swept the Lakers in the Western Conference finals. With that roster, the Lakers were drifting from championship dreams rather than chasing them, last winning a title in 2010.

Beefing up the Lakers

In July, the Lakers pulled one of the biggest free agent moves of the summer, acquiring longtime Phoenix Suns point guard Steve Nash.

Since the deal, there have been phone calls, dinners and meetings. Nash and Bryant have talked. Lakers center Pau Gasol had dinner with Bryant, and Lakers coach Mike Brown spent time in Las Vegas last month with former NBA coach Eddie Jordan. They discussed the idea of adding Jordan as an assistant coach and running portions of the Princeton offense.

"I like Steve a lot. I look forward to running with Steve," Bryant said.

How much better Nash makes the Lakers will be played out this season. But Nash's presence will take offensive pressure off Bryant. Now the Lakers have a playmaker in Nash, who can set up shots for himself, Bryant, Gasol and Andrew Bynum.

Bryant looks forward to seeing Gasol flourish in the Lakers' new offense.

"It's going to make it a lot easier for him, that's for sure. Steve's an incredible distributor," Bryant said. "Also, the system that we run will be a lot different. So I think it's perfect for (Gasol), his ability to pass the ball and make plays from the high post. He'll be able to shoot. It's the perfect system.

"We talked about this over dinner. We talked next season and the things we'll be running. I was excited for him. That's right in his wheelhouse, the way he likes to play."

Another consequence of Nash's arrival might be the extension of Bryant's NBA career, given that his body should be under less stress. Bryant lost 16 pounds after the season and told news reporters he had to curtail his stops at In-N-Out Burger.

Since the USA began its training camp in Las Vegas, Bryant has been on a roll engaging news reporters. He started by saying the 2012 U.S. team could beat the 1992 Dream Team, igniting a debate that won't go away. Bryant tried to clarify his comment. He said the current team could beat the old team in a one-game situation. He didn't say this team could beat that team every time.

When a news reporter suggested Bryant was the best U.S offensive player in the low post other than center Tyson Chandler, Bryant stopped the question.

"No, no, no," Bryant said. "Not other than Tyson Chandler. I'm the best post player on this team, period. Tyson Chandler is not in that conversation."

Asked what it's like to be the old guy on the team, Bryant said, "I'm where everybody wants to get to. I just happen to be still playing."

"Can you learn anything from these young guys?" he was asked.

Bryant: "No."

"You know everything?"

Bryant: "I don't know if I know it all, but I know more than they do."

Bryant is not along for the ride in London after winning gold in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. He starts, provides leadership and because he doesn't need to score as much he doesn't. James, Durant and Carmelo Anthony can handle that. But when needed, Bryant isn't worried.

"I score. That's what I do," he said.

Bryant scored 14 points in the first two games. On the next off day, Durant asked Bryant to show him a few offensive moves against Nigeria. So Bryant scored 14 in the first quarter.

Bryant has the full support of Mike Krzyzewski, the coach of Team USA and Duke. Krzyzewski recruited Bryant even though he knew Bryant wasn't going to attend college. Bryant says had he attended college, Duke would have been his choice.

"I say that by default," Bryant said. "(Former North Carolina coach) Dean Smith stopped recruiting me because he knew I was going to the pros. Coach K just kept keeping on in case I changed my mind."

The two have grown to become friends.

"Great friends," Krzyzewski said. "I've known him since he was 16. As his pro career advanced, we got to be closer. Through this (Team USA), we've been really close.

"We both know that we've won. There's a mutual respect with people who have been lucky enough to win championships. There's certain things that tie you together."

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 07:25 AM
Thats exactly how I feel about y'all.

During the MLB off season I defended the NBA forum not being as bad as everyone says it is.

I'd hate to recant on what I said, but you are truly the worst poster I have ever seen on any NBA forum, present day, and the past. Or hell, any forum.

Mods, please lock and ban amoser. He doesn't positively contribute to the NBA forum and is a detriment. He most definitely keeps people from posting in here with his nonsense.

gmckenziejr82
06-27-2013, 07:45 AM
During the MLB off season I defended the NBA forum not being as bad as everyone says it is.

I'd hate to recant on what I said, but you are truly the worst poster I have ever seen on any NBA forum, present day, and the past. Or hell, any forum.

Mods, please lock and ban amoser. He doesn't positively contribute to the NBA forum and is a detriment. He most definitely keeps people from posting in here with his nonsense.

I agree this thread is not needed at all. On the other hand, I do not agree with banning him. He gets the most people to respond to him. And even if he wasn't here to make these threads there are enough ignorant, biased poster on here that a new hated poster would pop right up. Amo1ser I have nothing against you.

And yes it is true that lebron may never pass jordans popularity. But there is always a possibility.

Delrayhc
06-27-2013, 07:52 AM
I still dont understand the point if this thread. Why does it matter which player is more popular worldwide? It seems that it only matters to a few that have nothing better to post about and a op that has nothing better to do than post about a player all night and through the early morning. There is nothing constructive about this thread this is clearly a sick obsession that the op has.

Crackadalic
06-27-2013, 08:02 AM
Popularity can show that it's best players are usually more popularity around the world but has nothing to do how good a player is. Lebron is an exception base on how he left a sour taste in everyone's mouth on the decision even though we all know he's been the best player the last couple years

FraziersKnicks
06-27-2013, 08:14 AM
Love how you all say Lebron is already top ten, yet there is not credible published list that has him in the top ten. It's only here on PSD that everyone acts like it's common knowledge and resorts calling you childish names and throwing temper tantrums if you disagree with them. It's like the Lebronites of the world got together and congregated onto this site.

http://www.clicktop10.com/2013/05/top-10-best-nba-players-of-all-time/

http://www.sportscity.com/whos-the-best-of-all-time-the-top-10-players-in-nba-history/2013/04/05/

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/02/15/the-50-best-players-in-nba-history-may-surprise-you/#slide_37

http://www.wonderslist.com/top-10-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time/

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2013/03/top-50-nba-players-of-all-time/#46

http://www.celticslife.com/2013/01/ranking-top-ten-players-in-nba-history.html

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/404920-the-nbas-top-50-players-of-all-time

All of these list have Kobe at 7 and Lebron anywhere from 16-14. Funny how some of you don't even have Kobe in your top ten, yet have Lebron there while no published list agrees with any of you. Looks to me like your all the lone quacks trying to convince everybody that your idol is better then he really is. All are recent lists btw. Even celticslife.com has Kobe at 6. lol I defy any of you to provide one published top ten of all time list that has Lebron in it. I'm sure you can't because it doesn't exist. Case closed.

Funny how all of these are published before LeBron won his second ring and second finals MVP. I realistically had him around the 15-20 range before. Now I have him top 10 above your boy Kobe.

blacknell
06-27-2013, 08:24 AM
basketball isn't as big as it was when Jordan was playing. There isn't the star power the NBA once had and now a days the players act like a bunch of cry babies nobody wants to see that.

Also I believe the NBA to be rigged and thats one reason why I and many others like me tend not to view the games as much any more. The NFL any team can win the Super bowl, but in the NBA the team with the highest payrolls will win every year and the biggest markets

Lakeshow24KB
06-27-2013, 03:42 PM
Kobe's sneaker is $140 because demand isn't high. Economics 101, demand determines the price. LeBron's sneakers are high demand. It doesn't matter about what type of base his market is pursuing, people are buying them whether for fashion purposes or basketball. Refer to Jordan, people buy them for fashionable reasons.

http://whistleblows.com/2010/12/lebrons-financial-impact-on-cleveland/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/life-after-lebron-how-clevelands-economy-is-faring_n_1582328.html

When LeBron left the Cavailers, it was far bigger of an impact to the team than the economy. The state suffered a huge decrease in tourism and revenue. People came to watch LeBron, and they stopped showing up when he left. If Kobe leaves, someone will just replace him and take his role. So in reality, Kobe doesn't have a bigger impact than James. You LAL fans are hilarious. LeBron makes more in endorsements, LeBron generates more in sneaker sales, LeBron sells more jerseys. Have a nice day, hater.

This post is flawed in way too many ways. First off, please don't jump to conclusions and assume that I think that Kobe generates more money or anything more than LeBron. I merely stated that the numbers for shoe selling is a misconception. Second, in this case LeBron's shoes aren't more expensive because of a "higher demand". It's because there is more technology in Lebron's shoe according to how he plays.

Kobe's shoe:
http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/pd/kobe-8-system-basketball-shoe/pid-655699/pgid-725602
Scroll down until you see technology. You'll see that it only has Lunarlon Cushioning.

Lebron's shoe:
http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/pd/lebron-x-basketball-shoe/pid-655643/pgid-655642
Scroll down until you see technology. You'll see that it has Hyperfuse, Nike Zoom, and Flywire. Along with having a high top shoe which requires more money.

Also, Jordans are the most sought after shoe yet most are only $160. So that again proves how that theory is flawed in this situation.

Third of all, it would be false to state that someone will just simply "take Kobe's role" after he leaves. Someone as dominant as Kobe was in the Lakers' history won't be replace by anybody. And of course ratings spiked after LeBron left. Cleveland was nothing until LeBron put them on the map....

Please don't take this the wrong way. In no way do I agree with the OP, but you decided to extend this and jump to conclusions. In fact, not once did I state anything about Kobe having better sales or anything than LeBron. Please don't stereotype me as some of the Kobe-philes on this site. I'm a Laker fan, with or without Kobe. You have a nice day, sir.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 04:05 PM
This is not a basketball discussion.

Lakeshow24KB
06-27-2013, 04:16 PM
Lol the whole thread wasn't even a basketball discussion to begin with.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:33 PM
This is not a basketball discussion.

False. It is basketball related. Which is legit according to the rules on this site. Perhaps you need a refresher course.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 04:35 PM
False. It is basketball related. Which is legit according to the rules on this site. Perhaps you need a refresher course.

Basketball related =/= Basketball discussion

I could give a **** about the site rules. People should come on here to discuss players, schemes, stats, roster moves, and other basketball things.

The site should not encourage drivel to be discussed on any level.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:38 PM
Funny how all of these are published before LeBron won his second ring and second finals MVP. I realistically had him around the 15-20 range before. Now I have him top 10 above your boy Kobe.

Lol. Funny how you all said that rings were a weak argument as to why a player should be ranked highly individually and that they were a team accomplishment before Lebron had two. Now the ring argument is all of the sudden enough to catapult him from the 15-20 range, to the top ten. #hypocrisy

Oh and tell that to the many posters I saw on here who said that Lebron would be top ten even if the Heat lost to the Spurs. Please don't act like the NBA forum isn't filled with Lebron nuthuggers more than anything else. If the Lebronites of the world had their own state, PSD would be their capital.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:40 PM
Basketball related =/= Basketball discussion

I could give a **** about the site rules. People should come on here to discuss players, schemes, stats, roster moves, and other basketball things.

The site should not encourage drivel to be discussed on any level.

With all due respect, no one is forcing you to reply.

What you are referring to sounds like a dictatorship to me. Just because one person doesn't like me personally, I should be silenced? That violate freedom of speech and the principles this country was founded on.

bucketss
06-27-2013, 04:45 PM
Amos1er is getting highly desperate, i wonder what he will say next year when lebron wins? jordans and kobes shoes are better looking so therefore lebron will never be better than them :rolleyes:

koreancabbage
06-27-2013, 04:48 PM
Lol. Funny how you all said that rings were a weak argument as to why a player should be ranked highly individually and that they were a team accomplishment before Lebron had two. Now the ring argument is all of the sudden enough to catapult him from the 15-20 range, to the top ten. #hypocrisy

Oh and tell that to the many posters I saw on here who said that Lebron would be top ten even if the Heat lost to the Spurs. Please don't act like the NBA forum isn't filled with Lebron nuthuggers more than anything else. If the Lebronites of the world had their own state, PSD would be their capital.

all of Kobe's arguments are weak. Lebron dominates him in regular season stats and playoff stats. Even head to head Lebron dominates Kobe.

so how is Kobe better than Lebron again?

bucketss
06-27-2013, 04:52 PM
i wonder if kobe/jordan had haters that were this desperate?

bucketss
06-27-2013, 04:52 PM
kind speaks on lebrons greatness when his haters are using television viewers against him lmao!!!!

bucketss
06-27-2013, 04:53 PM
all of Kobe's arguments are weak. Lebron dominates him in regular season stats and playoff stats. Even head to head Lebron dominates Kobe.

so how is Kobe better than Lebron again?

5 rangzzzz

The Flash
06-27-2013, 04:53 PM
basketball isn't as big as it was when Jordan was playing. There isn't the star power the NBA once had and now a days the players act like a bunch of cry babies nobody wants to see that.

Also I believe the NBA to be rigged and thats one reason why I and many others like me tend not to view the games as much any more. The NFL any team can win the Super bowl, but in the NBA the team with the highest payrolls will win every year and the biggest markets

I think it would've been easier to have it rigged like U claim during Jordan era.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 04:54 PM
With all due respect, no one is forcing you to reply.

What you are referring to sounds like a dictatorship to me. Just because one person doesn't like me personally, I should be silenced? That violate freedom of speech and the principles this country was founded on.

Because it's highly toxic to the NBA forum and ruins the entirety of the place. You have every right to spew what nonsense you'd like. However, in an NBA forum to discuss basketball, mods should not allow this.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:54 PM
During the MLB off season I defended the NBA forum not being as bad as everyone says it is.

Ever occur to you that people can't stand this forum because it has become overrun with Lebron fanatics the past few years. In fact, I have had many posters PM me thanking me for trying to keep it real in here. Most of all whom have all left due to the overwhelming Lebron bias that currently exists in here. I have been posting in here longer than anyone else, and let me tell you it was a much better place in years past. It's the Lebronites that make this place unbearable and give it a bad reputation.


I'd hate to recant on what I said, but you are truly the worst poster I have ever seen on any NBA forum, present day, and the past. Or hell, any forum.

For sure. Anyone who doesn't blindly worship Lebron as the second coming and who can provide a good argument as to why is a total moron right.

So because I don't agree with you, I need to go. You had better be careful with that line of thinking...you are walking a very slippery slope...

Again, I have done nothing to violate the rules of this site. All I have done is make arguments that are apparently unpopular with the masses. So instead of countering my points like an intelligent upstanding person, you lobby to have me removed. There are so many parallels I could draw here.


Mods, please lock and ban amoser. He doesn't positively contribute to the NBA forum and is a detriment. He most definitely keeps people from posting in here with his nonsense.

I keep people from posting in here? Funny, this thread alone has over 200 responses. Shouldn't people be able to decide for themselves if they want to respond to me or not? Sorry to break it to you, but I'm playing by the rules...if you are afraid of what I have to say and can't accept the truth, than I suggest you use the ignore option. I won't be offended. Trust me.

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:55 PM
Because it's highly toxic to the NBA forum and ruins the entirety of the place.

Thats your opinion.

So you want the mods to act hastily just because you feel a certain way?

Should we start calling you comrade from now on?

amos1er
06-27-2013, 04:59 PM
all of Kobe's arguments are weak. Lebron dominates him in regular season stats and playoff stats. Even head to head Lebron dominates Kobe.

so how is Kobe better than Lebron again?

What is this domination you speak of? lol

Head to head match ups??? Really??? So then Kobe and Lebron were guarding each other the entire game when their two teams met in the regular season???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XxsN8jITds

pacman16
06-27-2013, 04:59 PM
Damn... now I'm convinced lebron sucks

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 05:03 PM
Thats your opinion.

So you want the mods to act hastily just because you feel a certain way?

It's not acting hastily. You have been an awful poster for a while.

And yes, how I feel is exactly what is fueling this. It's what fuels anything.

natelpete
06-27-2013, 05:04 PM
kind speaks on lebrons greatness when his haters are using television viewers against him lmao!!!!

If these people could only get an outsider's perspective of how sad and desperate they look, the PSD NBA forum would be a better place.

bucketss
06-27-2013, 05:05 PM
What is this domination you speak of? lol

Head to head match ups??? Really??? So then Kobe and Lebron were guarding each other the entire game when their two teams met in the regular season???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XxsN8jITds

all star game:laugh: desperation level 100

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 05:06 PM
If these people could only get an outsider's perspective of how sad and desperate they look, the PSD NBA forum would be a better place.

I won't even blame them for being ****ing dumb. Mods should not allow this garbage.

northphillyfan
06-27-2013, 05:17 PM
If your lebron James or his supporters why would you care what ignorant haters say about lebron he has the highest respect from his peers and all the greats of the game everybody who knows basketball on it's highest level know lebron James is one of the greatest to ever play so whenever one these idiots say different just laugh at there ignorance like I do

ztilzer31
06-27-2013, 05:20 PM
It's funny because there are a lot of people that don't like Lebron. Which is fine. There is literally nothing wrong with that. If you don't like someone's personality or lifestyle choices this a free country. Hate and like who you want.

However all this direct hatred and venom toward his game (by mostly Lakers fans) just give him more credit. All you're doing is showing your fear that LBJ is dominating the league. You are scared that the NBA as you know it is changing. You're afraid that when it's all said and done many people will believe LBJ is the GOAT. All the way from PSD to MJ himself. You all just give him power over you. Its constant.

There are other teams fan bases that really hate LBJ. Bulls fans, but you never see too many go too far. It comes off as more a competitive hate. Which is healthy. I mean every single Knicks fan hated MJ back in the day. They respected him, but they seriously hated the man.

Lakers fans are scared because people are actually starting to really compare LBJ/Kobe/LBJ. Kobe is already out of the conversation in a lot of peoples minds. The dwindling amount of people that think Kobe is better is reserved to only Lakers fans, and Kobephiles.

It's funny because after the Lakers disaster at the beginning of the season (which every single one of you said you guys were going to win 70 games). All their efforts went to disproving LBJ's greatness. It's just really sad at this point.

koberulesall
06-27-2013, 05:21 PM
of course rating will go down when a game is fixed, none of kobe or mikes games were fixed.....also it seems like nobody likes james(including me) everyone i come across wants him to lose as to when mike was in the finals if the lakers were out i wanted him to win and when kobe is in the finals even friends of mine that arent laker fans want him to win but everyone i know always wants james to lose

ztilzer31
06-27-2013, 05:22 PM
If your lebron James or his supporters why would you care what ignorant haters say about lebron he has the highest respect from his peers and all the greats of the game everybody who knows basketball on it's highest level know lebron James is one of the greatest to ever play so whenever one these idiots say different just laugh at there ignorance like I do

This is a great post. Something that people don't realize in this forum if they said half of what they said to an actually basketball player they'd laugh in your face and give you a wet willy. The players/coaches of the NBA are tired of it. Pop's speech he made during the finals on it pretty much sums it up.

natelpete
06-27-2013, 05:23 PM
of course rating will go down when a game is fixed, none of kobe or mikes games were fixed.....also it seems like nobody likes james(including me) everyone i come across wants him to lose as to when mike was in the finals if the lakers were out i wanted him to win and when kobe is in the finals even friends of mine that arent laker fans want him to win but everyone i know always wants james to lose

Nice sentence

ztilzer31
06-27-2013, 05:23 PM
of course rating will go down when a game is fixed, none of kobe or mikes games were fixed.....also it seems like nobody likes james(including me) everyone i come across wants him to lose as to when mike was in the finals if the lakers were out i wanted him to win and when kobe is in the finals even friends of mine that arent laker fans want him to win but everyone i know always wants james to lose

Proof reading would be nice. Are you a troll? Did you just say none of Kobe's games were fixed? Like literally the only proven fixed game was fixed for the Lakers with Kobe on the team lol.

I'm confused.

Guppyfighter
06-27-2013, 05:25 PM
of course rating will go down when a game is fixed, none of kobe or mikes games were fixed.....also it seems like nobody likes james(including me) everyone i come across wants him to lose as to when mike was in the finals if the lakers were out i wanted him to win and when kobe is in the finals even friends of mine that arent laker fans want him to win but everyone i know always wants james to lose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo

ztilzer31
06-27-2013, 05:27 PM
I mean if you ask amos1er this championship was fixed. He said before the finals that if the Heat win it'll only be because it's fixed.

How do people still give credibility to this guy as a poster when he says stuff like this.... How is he still even allowed outside the Lakers forum...

bucketss
06-27-2013, 05:29 PM
of course rating will go down when a game is fixed, none of kobe or mikes games were fixed.....also it seems like nobody likes james(including me) everyone i come across wants him to lose as to when mike was in the finals if the lakers were out i wanted him to win and when kobe is in the finals even friends of mine that arent laker fans want him to win but everyone i know always wants james to lose

so what do you call the 2002 wcf? LOL i think you're a kobe troll or something, can't believe you said that. you're either a huge troll or an evil genius.

Tony_Starks
06-27-2013, 05:37 PM
If you really needed numbers to tell you that please ban yourself and switch sports......

Thank you

bucketss
06-27-2013, 05:41 PM
this guy can use stats, rings, and all individual accolades to make his point. but decides to use tv viewerships:facepalm:

koreancabbage
06-27-2013, 07:19 PM
What is this domination you speak of? lol

Head to head match ups??? Really??? So then Kobe and Lebron were guarding each other the entire game when their two teams met in the regular season???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XxsN8jITds

IF we're going to use absurd statements and one youtube video

i can only counter using BLEACHER REPORT.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1487966-comparing-kobe-bryant-and-lebron-james-by-the-numbers/page/12

and this is before James won his second ring.

koreancabbage
06-27-2013, 07:33 PM
What is this domination you speak of? lol

Head to head match ups??? Really??? So then Kobe and Lebron were guarding each other the entire game when their two teams met in the regular season???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XxsN8jITds

Like I said, dominates

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=bryanko01

and James has 2nd highest PER after Jordan. Kobe is like 18th or something like that.

shooting %, rebounds, assists even if you think scoring is about the same.

Lebron has been more dominant over his career than Kobe.

Okay you you say Kobe has a season where he scored 35 points. Lebron's best year, he averaged 31 and dished out 2 more assists which pretty much negates the 4 points he is short by.

Greet
06-27-2013, 07:46 PM
This is literally so general it's ridiculous.

Slade123
06-27-2013, 07:47 PM
Because public perception is what ultimately determines greatness.

Man, and I thought I hated Lebron. Lebron is better than Kobe. That's a fact! Deal with it!!!