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View Full Version : NBA All-time Redraft: San Diego (2) VS London (3)



PatsSoxKnicks
06-25-2013, 10:21 PM
Disclaimer: Hello Everyone. Welcome to the NBA All-time redraft playoffs. These will be a battle between two made up teams from our host of GM’s in to see who reigns superiority over all of basketball. There is a slight twist in this All-time: each team has a starter from each decade. Please read the write-ups and vote for who you think would win in a 7 game series.

San Diego has HCA. Minutes distribution are in parenthesis.

PG: Tony Parker - 00s (32)/Norm Van Lier 70s (16)/Baron Davis - 00s (0)
SG: Reggie Miller - 90s(38)/ Hal Greer - 50s/60s (10)
SF: James Worthy - 80s (34)/ Caron Butler - 00s(14) /Dennis Scott 90s (0)
PF: Dan Issel - 70s (34)/Terry Cummings 80s (14)
C: Wilt Chamberlain - 60s (38)/ Brad Daugherty - 90s (10)


PG: Tony Parker vs Dave Bing
Parker is one of the quickest PGs in the game right now (although hampered by a hamstring injury in the Finals which limited him) and will be able to use that quickness to his advantage against Bing. Bing is a good defensive player but I'm not sure he has the lateral quickness to guard someone like Tony Parker. Defensively, I believe Parker would be able to stay in front of Bing and turn him into a jump shooter, which is not his strong suit as he was known as being a penetrating type of guard who could get to the hole. Parker will not let that happen in this series. We think this matchup is a big advantage for San Diego.

SG: Reggie Miller vs Sidney Moncrief
As with the last series, Reggie is going to be playing off the ball and doing what he does best, which is shooting. With Tony Parker, Worthy, and Wilt making plays and commanding attention from other defenders, Reggie will be able to get open looks. Reggie running around the perimeter and finding the soft spots in the defense is going to be a major problem for London in this series. Moncrief is a terrific defensive player, he's won multiple DPOY awards and been on multiple All-Defensive Teams. Reggie has faced great defenders many times throughout his career though, and as the 3rd or 4th option here on San Diego versus the 1st option that he was his entire career, it's just going to be impossible to stop Reggie from getting his. He's way too good of a shooter and he's got too many gifted players around him.

SF: James Worthy vs LeBron James
It's impossible to completely shut down LeBron, but you can limit his effectiveness. The key to do that is to take away the paint and force him into jump shots. Lebron has the quickness advantage on Worthy, so we would have Worthy play off of Lebron to encourage him to take more jumpers. Lebron is extremely aggressive however and will force his way to the basket eventually, and we feel Worthy and his 6'9'' frame would make it difficult for Lebron when he does choose to drive. Not to mention, Wilt Chamberlain is the last line of defense and will just make it that much harder for Lebron to finish at the rim. On the other end, Worthy will force Lebron to exert a large amount of energy on defense, which could also be beneficial to our strategy. With a tired Lebron, he will be less likely to drive and would be more likely to settle for jumpers, which is what we want. When he does drive, Worthy has the size to be very disruptive to his finishes at the rim. Lebron is an amazing player but we think we are well-equipped to stop him from being "King James" this series.

PF: Dan Issel vs Dennis Rodman
Issel played in the NBA from '77-'85 with Denver, averaging 21-23 points and 9-10 rebounds per game in his prime and helping lead his team deep into the playoffs on multiple occasions. He will be vital to the floor spacing of our team as he does most of his work on the perimeter. Drawing Rodman out of the paint will allow Wilt more room to operate and will give us better chances of grabbing the offensive board. On the other end, Rodman is pretty much no threat at all offensively. The key for Issel on the defensive end is to rebound since he doesn't have to worry about guarding Rodman much, just to do his best to box him out and limit Rodman's offensive rebounds. Rodman's best asset is his ability create extra possessions, Issel is the more complete basketball player however.

C: Wilt Chamberlain vs Bob McAdoo
I think Wilt would dominate McAdoo. Wilt has a 4 inch height advantage and is just the much stronger player. He will be able to get deep post position all game long and just go to work. London will be forced to send help, which again will just create more open looks for the rest of our team. While McAdoo has no chance at all of stopping Wilt, Wilt should be able to slow down the offfensively gifted McAdoo. This is a major advantage for San Diego and we believe Wilt will be able to bully London down low.

Bench: Van Lier/Greer/Butler/Cummings/Daugherty vs Kerr/Petrovich/Johnson/Griffin/Eaton
Van Lier is a phenomenal defensive player off the bench and will be able to shut down Petrovich when matched up with him. Prime Butler also a good defender will be matched up with Johnson. Daugherty and Cummings are both big men who could score 20 PPG in their primes, so they provide the San Diego frontcourt with the some scoring punch off the bench.

Summary:
Their best player is Lebron, and our strategy for stopping him is to pack the paint and surrender jump shots. London has limited shooting, neither Bing or Moncrief were known for their outside shooting. They'll have to penetrate to score and generally player closer to the basket, so we're hoping to create some spacing issues for them. We think that our potent offense combined with stopping them just enough we'll be able to come out with the win.


PG - Dave Bing (30mpg) / Steve Kerr (14mpg) / Moncrief (4mpg)
SG - Sidney Moncrief (30mpg) / Drazen Petrovic (18mpg) / Joe Johnson (0)
SF - LeBron James (32mpg) / Joe Johnson (16mpg) / Bill Bradley (0)
PF - Dennis Rodman (20mpg) / Bob McAdoo (18mpg) / LeBron James (10mpg)
C - Bob McAdoo (12mpg) / Mark Eaton (26mpg) / Dennis Rodman (10mpg) / Theo Ratliff (0)

London vs. San Diego pits two teams with different styles against each other. One team sacrifices defense for offense and the other team believes elite defense is paramount to success. It’s important that you read the bench and overall sections because for this specific matchup I will be utilizing a new lineup that will exploit their team.

PG – Dave Bing vs. Tony Parker (guarded by Sidney Moncrief)
Ironically, Bing and Parker have similar playing styles but are just from different generations. The differences are that Bing was more successful on an individual level (2x all-nba 1st team) whereas Parker has been more successful in the playoffs. Both are quick slashing point guards who have skills to score and distribute. Bing was a little more prolific than Parker in both aspects as he led the league in scoring and was in the top 10 in apg for 8 out of 9 seasons. I recognize the name value here gives the advantage to my opponent but this is a close matchup and when you factor in that a DPOY like The Squid will be seeing some face time on Parker (and possibly LeBron at the end of games with my closeout lineup) you wonder how many off nights we’ll see in this series from TP…
Advantage: San Diego

SG – Sidney Moncrief vs. Reggie Miller
Moncrief is significantly superior to the overrated Miller in every aspect of the game except for one. He’s the better passer, slasher, ball handler, and on a completely different level as a defender. Miller is a streaky shooter who produces basically nothing if his shot isn’t falling. To me, the advantage here is clear.
Advantage: London

SF – LeBron James vs. James Worthy
Worthy is an athletic wing who thrived running in an uptempo offense with Magic and getting out in transition. Is Tony Parker really capable of being that type of point guard? Is Worthy really going to beat LeBron James down the court in transition? Our elite perimeter defense with LeBron and Moncrief neutralizes the value of someone like James Worthy who is not a true shot creator or floor spacer. Meanwhile, LeBron’s all-around game has finally peaked and he can now help London from perimeter (40% 3pt shooter) and the low block while still being an elite distributor and defender.
Advantage: London

PF – Dennis Rodman vs. Dan Issel (guarded by Bob McAdoo)
The Worm would be part of our rotation on Wilt. Considering the fact that Rodman has spent time on Shaq, he would at least be able to disrupt Wilt for some possessions as in my opinion there has never been a more disruptive defensive player than 2x DPOY Dennis Rodman. Issel was a solid player from the old generation but he peaked in the all offense era of the ABA. I see Rodman having significantly more impact on this series. I’ll explain this further in the overall section.
Advantage: London

C – Bob McAdoo vs. Wilt Chamberlain (guarded by Dennis Rodman and Mark Eaton)
Wilt will see a healthy diet of arguably the greatest shot blocker in NBA History the enormous 7’4-275lbs Mark Eaton. Eaton has set records for blocks per game (5.6 bpg from an entire season) and block percentage. He’s got the size and instincts to body up on Wilt. We will also send doubles from LeBron knowing that Worthy can’t beat us from the perimeter. Meanwhile, Bob McAdoo (along with Wilt) is one of only a few players in NBA History to average over 30ppg. He was a league MVP center who at his prime averaged 35ppg to lead the NBA. McAdoo was not just a volume scorer either as he led the league in TS% at 59%. The problem San Diego has is who do they put on McAdoo? If you put Wilt on him, then he can do exactly what we did in the first round with Tyson Chandler which is pull Wilt away from the basket with his face up game and jump shooting. Then London will have no trouble slicing through that porous perimeter defense of San Diego with Bing/Moncrief/LeBron and feasting at the basket. If they put Issel on him than you’ve wasted Wilt on Rodman. If Wilt tries to play help defense the whole game he’ll end up in foul trouble AND Rodman will get tons of offensive rebounds and putbacks which is EXACTLY his strength as a player. Although they will get more production from the C spot this situation puts San Diego in a tough position.
Advantage: San Diego

Bench – Kerr/Drazen/JoeJohnson/Eaton vs. VanLier/Greer/Butler/Cummings/Daughtery
I’ve removed Blake Griffin from the rotation for this series because this specific opponent provides me a unique opportunity to capitalize on San Diego’s 10 minutes without Wilt. When San Diego subs out Wilt, London will use the following lineup: Kerr-Drazen-JJ-LeBron-Rodman. This lineup is similar to the 2013 Heat’s most productive lineup from this year’s playoffs. With snipers spreading the floor for LeBron (including the #1 and #3 highest percentage 3pt shooters of All-Time), this team would be able to exploit the now soft interior and force defenders to collapse and leave players like Steve Kerr and Drazen Petrovic wide open. Joe Johnson would thrive playing the role of 3rd option and spot-up shooter like he did in Phoenix. I believe this lineup will give San Diego’s bench a lot of difficulty and be a significant advantage for London.
Advantage: London

Overall:
This is another series where London faces a below average defensive team (especially on the perimeter) with one great defender at C. This is where the value of Bob McAdoo’s elite scoring/shooting becomes a huge boost because either Wilt will be pulled away from the basket or he will face the inferior Dan Issel who was not known for his defense! In addition, our best player LeBron James again goes another series without having to face an elite defensive player. Meanwhile, San Diego’s best player will be guarded by TWO former DPOY players (Mark Eaton and Dennis Rodman) and doubled by all-defensive 1st team player LeBron James who can safely leave Worthy without fear of a perimeter threat. It doesn’t get better than that to slow down a franchise player. Factoring in the huge production we expect to get with our bench lineup London should advance to the 2nd round.

KnicksorBust
06-25-2013, 10:34 PM
I'd just like to point out that now that I know they are using Wilt on McAdoo that helps London's ability to score in the paint. McAdoo's greatest attribute as a league MVP was his scoring from anywhere on the floor. His face-up game and jump-shooting will pull Wilt away from the paint and leave San Diego extremely vulnerable with mediocre or below average perimeter defenders at every other starting position. Their lack of perimeter defense is a huge weakness that wasn't exploited enough in round 1 but with my ability to draw Wilt out that will make it so much easier to penetrate and break down their highly questionable defense.

The_Jamal
06-25-2013, 10:46 PM
Interesting. London has pretty sizable advantages at the 2-4 positions and the much better defense. Moncrief on Parker is bad news for SD.

However, Wilt is the big kahuna in this series. I think Eaton is the only one who could hamper Wilt in this series (Rodman just too small) and even though Eaton is a great DPOY, I still see that as a huge advantage for SD.

roshan3ai
06-25-2013, 10:48 PM
Interesting. London has pretty sizable advantages at the 2-4 positions and the much better defense. Moncrief on Parker is bad news for SD.

However, Wilt is the big kahuna in this series. I think Eaton is the only one who could hamper Wilt in this series (Rodman just too small) and even though Eaton is a great DPOY, I still see that as a huge advantage for SD.

Then how'd Big Ben limit Shaq?

The_Jamal
06-25-2013, 10:51 PM
Then how'd Big Ben limit Shaq?

Cause Ben was better defensively, taller, bigger.

Other than that... :)

PatsSoxKnicks
06-26-2013, 12:53 AM
Cause Ben was better defensively, taller, bigger.

Other than that... :)

Was he taller? I honestly don't know but I feel like him and Rodman were around the same height. Ben had incredible athleticism though and was physical as well. That's not to say Rodman wasn't though because he was.

Killerjug
06-26-2013, 09:20 AM
bump

Mr. Baller
06-26-2013, 11:45 AM
Bump

Sadds The Gr8
06-26-2013, 02:32 PM
bump

The_Jamal
06-26-2013, 04:29 PM
:nod:

Mr. Baller
06-26-2013, 07:20 PM
Keep voting

KnicksorBust
06-26-2013, 07:45 PM
London would love to get more debate going. We see the talent of both teams but San Diego's subpar writeup and 0 debate in this thread should push the edge significantly where it belongs which is to London.


Summary:
Their best player is Lebron, and our strategy for stopping him is to pack the paint and surrender jump shots. London has limited shooting, neither Bing or Moncrief were known for their outside shooting. They'll have to penetrate to score and generally player closer to the basket, so we're hoping to create some spacing issues for them. We think that our potent offense combined with stopping them just enough we'll be able to come out with the win.

Their only solution to stop our team was to pack the paint. Think about that:

We have 14 minutes of Steve Kerr (#1 all-time in 3pt percentage)
We have 18 minutes of Drazen Petrovic (#3 all-time in 3pt percentage)
We have 16 minutes of Joe Johnson (48% from 3pt at his peak)
We have 42 minute of LeBron James (41% from 3pt at his peak)
We have 34 minutes of Sidney Moncrief (34% from 3pt at his peak)

Not only do we have 2 of the 3 greatest snipers in NBA History providing spacing and elite shooting but LeBron has proven with a league MVP and Finals MVP season that even if you pack the paint he's still going to beat you. He's on another level now and his added perimeter shot makes him that much harder to guard. Plus he's being guarded by a defender in James Worthy who even admitted in his prime he had trouble guarding people on the perimeter. Miller-Parker were arguably the worst defensive backcourt in this redraft and meanwhile his best player is being guarded by 2 former DPOY players (Rodman + Eaton) and double teamed (by LeBron)! Balance is the key to success here. We have the formula to slow down San Diego while we will be able to get all the looks that we want all series long and thrive offensively. London deserves to advance to the 2nd round.

Mr. Baller
06-26-2013, 08:28 PM
Except the years you chose for LeBron were not during his best 3 point shooting days. You're spacing for most of the game is poor especially with your starting unit, and our starting lineup meshes beautifully. We will gladly have Dave Bing chasing Reggie Miller all around the court, and Reggie may be an overrated player, but on a team where all he is asked to do on offense is shoot the ball based on kickouts from Parker and from Wilt through the post in which you will have to double otherwise Wilt will feast on McAdoo, he is perfect for us.

KnicksorBust
06-26-2013, 08:47 PM
Except the years you chose for LeBron were not during his best 3 point shooting days. You're spacing for most of the game is poor especially with your starting unit, and our starting lineup meshes beautifully. We will gladly have Dave Bing chasing Reggie Miller all around the court, and Reggie may be an overrated player, but on a team where all he is asked to do on offense is shoot the ball based on kickouts from Parker and from Wilt through the post in which you will have to double otherwise Wilt will feast on McAdoo, he is perfect for us.

Did you even read my writeup? Moncrief will spend some time on Parker but the majority of time on Reggie and Rodman-Eaton will cover Wilt and LeBron will double. Offensively we have 124 minutes of good shooting available to us and that's NOT including McAdoo who thrived from the perimeter. How are you planning on using Wilt to guard McAdoo's faceup game? He was able to score 35ppg on almost 60% TS in his prime. If you pull him away from the basket your interior will be wide open because Wilt is your only above average defensive player and this is an all-time redraft where talent is at a premium.

Mr. Baller
06-26-2013, 08:51 PM
PG – Dave Bing vs. Tony Parker (guarded by Sidney Moncrief)



.

killthesux
06-26-2013, 08:51 PM
Its really hard to vote against someone who will be on MJs level when he is done

KnicksorBust
06-26-2013, 09:22 PM
Finally some action from San Diego. Any response to the fact that I'm getting 124 minutes out of perimeter shooters in a 48 minute game? I think that will be able to sustain my floor spacing just fine don't you? :)

Mr. Baller
06-26-2013, 09:25 PM
Can you give me till 10 eastern, watching TV with the folks can't give a proper rebuttal right now :)

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 07:42 AM
Bump London

Mr. Baller
06-27-2013, 07:47 AM
Official count 13-12 San Diego. bloomis vote illegal

Also sorry KoB fell asleep last night, i am working on my response now.

Mr. Baller
06-27-2013, 08:09 AM
London would love to get more debate going. We see the talent of both teams but San Diego's subpar writeup and 0 debate in this thread should push the edge significantly where it belongs which is to London.



Their only solution to stop our team was to pack the paint. Think about that:

We have 14 minutes of Steve Kerr (#1 all-time in 3pt percentage)
We have 18 minutes of Drazen Petrovic (#3 all-time in 3pt percentage)
We have 16 minutes of Joe Johnson (48% from 3pt at his peak)
We have 42 minute of LeBron James (41% from 3pt at his peak)
We have 34 minutes of Sidney Moncrief (34% from 3pt at his peak)

Not only do we have 2 of the 3 greatest snipers in NBA History providing spacing and elite shooting but LeBron has proven with a league MVP and Finals MVP season that even if you pack the paint he's still going to beat you. He's on another level now and his added perimeter shot makes him that much harder to guard. Plus he's being guarded by a defender in James Worthy who even admitted in his prime he had trouble guarding people on the perimeter. Miller-Parker were arguably the worst defensive backcourt in this redraft and meanwhile his best player is being guarded by 2 former DPOY players (Rodman + Eaton) and double teamed (by LeBron)! Balance is the key to success here. We have the formula to slow down San Diego while we will be able to get all the looks that we want all series long and thrive offensively. London deserves to advance to the 2nd round.

Ahh the ******** in this post is awesome. Joe Johnson shot 48% one season in his career, we are using 3 year peaks in this game I believe, and Joe never shot over 40% AGAIN in his career. Plus Joe needs the ball in his hands to be effective something that I know won't happen with LeBron in the game. Same thing with LeBron, you just can't pick 1 year of stats for an all time game especially when you chose not to use those years for the voting if I remember correctly. LeBron hasn't shot over 36% from 3 except for this past season where you chose to mention he shot 41% from beyond the arc. Petrovic was indeed an effective 3 point shooter, however, he never shot too many of them as he only shot over 250 3's once in his NBA Career and 2 of his 4 seasons in the NBA he shot under 100 3's. Not a very big sample size. If you want to have a 34% 3 point shooter in Moncrief live at the 3 point line we will gladly live with that.



Did you even read my writeup? Moncrief will spend some time on Parker but the majority of time on Reggie and Rodman-Eaton will cover Wilt and LeBron will double. Offensively we have 124 minutes of good shooting available to us and that's NOT including McAdoo who thrived from the perimeter. How are you planning on using Wilt to guard McAdoo's faceup game? He was able to score 35ppg on almost 60% TS in his prime. If you pull him away from the basket your interior will be wide open because Wilt is your only above average defensive player and this is an all-time redraft where talent is at a premium.

I guess somebody didn't even read their own writeup! McAdoo is playing a whopping 12 minutes at center the entire game, most of which will be at the start of the game when you're starting lineup spacing is atrocious. You are giving 26 minutes to Mark Eaton, who will absolutely destroy all of your "great" spacing that you say you have and let us clamp the paint with Wilt.

I have more to say but unfortunately I got to go to work and will try to get more in later :)

PhillyLuver
06-27-2013, 11:00 AM
All tied up, 13-13

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 04:48 PM
Ahh the ******** in this post is awesome. Joe Johnson shot 48% one season in his career, we are using 3 year peaks in this game I believe, and Joe never shot over 40% AGAIN in his career. Plus Joe needs the ball in his hands to be effective something that I know won't happen with LeBron in the game. Same thing with LeBron, you just can't pick 1 year of stats for an all time game especially when you chose not to use those years for the voting if I remember correctly. LeBron hasn't shot over 36% from 3 except for this past season where you chose to mention he shot 41% from beyond the arc. Petrovic was indeed an effective 3 point shooter, however, he never shot too many of them as he only shot over 250 3's once in his NBA Career and 2 of his 4 seasons in the NBA he shot under 100 3's. Not a very big sample size. If you want to have a 34% 3 point shooter in Moncrief live at the 3 point line we will gladly live with that.

First of all, unfortunately you have the rules wrong. You take the player's peak from the decade you are using them in. You don't need to average any stats together. It's not that complicated. Secondly, Joe Johnson doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. He played with STEVE NASH and had his highest efficiency. If anything, we've learned that a little less ISO Joe and a little more spot-up shooter Joe is a good thing.

To be honest I'm surprised you want to make such a big deal out of spacing when Reggie Miller is literally the ONLY floor spacer you have on your team. Parker-Worthy are both terrible from the perimeter and you none of your bench players that are getting minutes are known to be snipers either. If anything I'd have an easier time packing the paint on Wilt AND I'm guarding him with elite defenders. Meanwhile you are trying to slow down LeBron-Moncrief with one of the worst perimeter defenses in the whole redraft. Wilt is your whole team defensively and that's not enough in an all-time redraft.




I guess somebody didn't even read their own writeup! McAdoo is playing a whopping 12 minutes at center the entire game, most of which will be at the start of the game when you're starting lineup spacing is atrocious. You are giving 26 minutes to Mark Eaton, who will absolutely destroy all of your "great" spacing that you say you have and let us clamp the paint with Wilt.



So when I move McAdoo to PF then you'll let him be guarded by Dan Issel and Terry Cummings? These are exactly the types of mediocre defensive players that he would feast on in his MVP and peak years. My three best scorers are all being covered be average to below average defenders while Wilt is wasted on Mark Eaton? It's going to be very easy for London to break down this defense and get high quality shots all series long.

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 05:07 PM
14-14! Go London! :)

PatsSoxKnicks
06-27-2013, 07:39 PM
100 post rule means bloomis' vote is inelgible so we have a tie right now

roshan3ai
06-27-2013, 07:48 PM
People please vote. Nobody wants a tie.

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 08:03 PM
bump London

Mr. Baller
06-27-2013, 09:10 PM
Bump San Diego

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 09:12 PM
bump London

PatsSoxKnicks
06-27-2013, 09:29 PM
bump Death Star

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 09:37 PM
bump London

PatsSoxKnicks
06-27-2013, 09:45 PM
bump Death Star

roshan3ai
06-27-2013, 09:46 PM
Bump New York Hakeem Nicks.

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 09:49 PM
bump London

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 10:03 PM
come all we need is one vote! London!

Mr. Baller
06-27-2013, 10:18 PM
san diego!

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 10:19 PM
London!

Mr. Baller
06-27-2013, 10:19 PM
Sd!

Killerjug
06-27-2013, 10:21 PM
Minneapolis!

Mr. Baller
06-27-2013, 10:22 PM
Ugh

KnicksorBust
06-27-2013, 10:24 PM
Bloomis is a quality poster. Just concede baller.

Mr. Baller
06-27-2013, 10:25 PM
Nope, I'll just ban you instead

PatsSoxKnicks
06-27-2013, 10:44 PM
100 post rule means this matchup is tied. Tiebreaker is up