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View Full Version : Remember When All Of Us Were Laughing At The Orlando Magic Last Year?



Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 11:55 AM
I remember how much everybody including me was dumping on them for basically trading Dwight for Harkless and a couple picks but fast forward a year and they might be the Rockets east here shortly where they rebuild RAPIDLY and suddenly become a legit playoff team.

A core of...


Olapido/McLemore
Harkless
Harris
Vujevic

Is impressive as hell to me. They have really stockpiled the assets. Then you flip Afflalo for Bledsoe and you have a starting five for the next 5+ years if you decide to keep everybody and they keep developing.

Just wanted to give props to the Magic because I was thinking about how impressive and quick their rebuild has been. I expected them to be the worst team for like 5 years with the Dwight setback and many here seemed to feel they were pretty doomed as well.

marvILLous
06-24-2013, 11:58 AM
Looks like a line-up of role players to me lol

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 12:02 PM
Looks like a line-up of role players to me lol

All high upside/versatile, young players. Not role players though.

Nikola Vujevic: 13 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg, 1 bpg, 1 spg.
Mo Harkless: 17/8/3 as starter second half of the season.
Tobias Harris: 11 ppg, 5 rpg.
Olapido: Rookie but should be an amazing fit. McLemore would also be nice.

waveycrockett
06-24-2013, 12:04 PM
Olapido/McLemore
Harkless
Harris
Vujevic


Yea these group of guys are honestly nothing special. The jury is obviously still out on Oladipo/McLemore but out of the rest Vujevic is the only guy I think is good enough to start and play 30+ Minutes on a good team. And Oladipo/McLemore could easily be the next Dion Waiter/Thomas Robinson which is to say they are hardly elite prospects.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 12:07 PM
Post all star break Tobias averaged 17.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg. People are underrating the sh** out of these guys.

rockets-fan
06-24-2013, 12:07 PM
Looks like a line-up of role players to me lol

That's how the Rockets looked, but they positioned themselves to make a big splash and are now a playoff team and hopefully more with more moves to come.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 12:09 PM
That's how the Rockets looked, but they positioned themselves to make a big splash and are now a playoff team and hopefully more with more moves to come.

Yup. Likely as their guys develop they may package two of the young guys for a superstar like you guys did Harden. If not they become a Pacers/Grizzlies type team without a clear superstar but multiple high quality team players.

Rockice_8
06-24-2013, 12:12 PM
Until they start winning they are just young guys putting up good numbers on a bad team.

GrumpyOldMan
06-24-2013, 12:18 PM
I like the potential in that roster, but they have to be willing to do what Houston did at some point and let some potential go for a star while at the same time spend a little on a FA. I'm sure when the time comes they will do that. Until then they have nice pieces to develop.

ChiSox219
06-24-2013, 12:27 PM
It wasn't a great haul for a player of Dwight's caliber and you cannot expect to steal a star like Houston did but Orlando is in good shape. They'll have a ton of cap space after next season and all their young pieces under contract so I'd expect to land something good in free agency.

hugepatsfan
06-24-2013, 12:32 PM
NBA is a star's league. They have the makings of a solid team but they're not a threat to be anything until they trade for or draft a superstar.

jon32
06-24-2013, 12:32 PM
Nicholson is ok too

marvILLous
06-24-2013, 12:35 PM
Post all star break Tobias averaged 17.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg. People are underrating the sh** out of these guys.

They also only won 5 games during that time..

Good case of good numbers bad team. Somebody had to put em up.

I'll keep an eye out for next season tho..

nycericanguy
06-24-2013, 12:38 PM
Post all star break Tobias averaged 17.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg. People are underrating the sh** out of these guys.

they have a nice core of your players, but no one looks like a franchise player or even all star.

You're putting way too much stock into those numbers, without taking them in context. He put up those numbers when the games didn't matter anymore, when he was guaranteed 36+mpg and 15 shots per game.

Anthony Randolph looked like an all star a couple years back when Love went down and the games didn't matter and the minutes were unlimited, so did Earl Barron in NY. Heck even Gallo averaged like 23ppg the last month or two his first full year in the league once NY fell out of it and he got huge minutes.

Basically you gotta take all that into context... teams weren't exactly game planning for these guys, but ORL does have some nice young pieces.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 12:40 PM
They also only won 5 games during that time..

Good case of good numbers bad team. Somebody had to put em up.

I'll keep an eye out for next season tho..

Agree. No winning= worthless. Just saying they are a lot more talented than people would ever know. They have a lot of young guys who seem to have great upside.

Kleonidas
06-24-2013, 12:49 PM
2014 first round draft pick from Denver
2016 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
2017 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers

Rob Hennigan has done a masterful job of getting the rebuild started in the right direction. Harris is a beast.

dhopisthename
06-24-2013, 01:00 PM
That's how the Rockets looked, but they positioned themselves to make a big splash and are now a playoff team and hopefully more with more moves to come.

yeah because they stole harden for pennies on the dollar. if the can secure a star like him then this team would look good, but they don't have much if they don't

bleedprple&gold
06-24-2013, 01:01 PM
They can sign that star player they need in 2014 when Hedo "I make 10x what I'm worth" Turkoglu finally comes off the books. They can also shed Harrington and Nelson and they will have a ton of money to spend with Harkless, Vucevic, Harris and the #2 pick this year all still on rookie contracts.

RiceOnTheRun
06-24-2013, 01:03 PM
Orlando saved my fantasy season ahaha. Sweet pickups in Harris, Vucevic and Mo Harkless. Allstar level stats for three undrafted players :cheers:

koreancabbage
06-24-2013, 01:07 PM
Post all star break Tobias averaged 17.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg. People are underrating the sh** out of these guys.

average player on a bad team. inflated stats don't mean much when your team is at the bottom of the standings.

And besides, they were last last year, maybe not last next year, and probably another lottery pick the year after.

I think they are in the lottery for this year (obvious reasons) and the next two years

Chronz
06-24-2013, 01:09 PM
Im still laughing at them, that was a horrible deal for Dwight. Not as bad as I thought but still bad

2-ONE-5
06-24-2013, 01:17 PM
if they land a top 5 pick next year like Wiggins or Parker they could be in serious business

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 01:19 PM
Im still laughing at them, that was a horrible deal for Dwight. Not as bad as I thought but still bad

Tanking is smarter than staying mediocre though. Tank just 1 more year.. land Wiggins/Parker next year.

koreancabbage
06-24-2013, 01:22 PM
Tanking is smarter than staying mediocre though. Tank just 1 more year.. land Wiggins/Parker next year.

Tanking does not guarantee you anything, even talent. You can tank but that make the team good in the long run. OKC got lucky with Durant and Westbrook. and you could be sucking for a long time,

Chronz
06-24-2013, 01:26 PM
Tanking is smarter than staying mediocre though. Tank just 1 more year.. land Wiggins/Parker next year.

Actually Im not so sure anymore. The Rockets went about it in a way I didn't think was possible, by never tanking.

But yes, if you can get a high pick in a great draft, thats prolly best. Still wouldn't have taken the trade they did.

RiceOnTheRun
06-24-2013, 01:26 PM
Tanking does not guarantee you anything, even talent. You can tank but that make the team good in the long run. OKC got lucky with Durant and Westbrook. and you could be sucking for a long time,

It's better than getting knocked out in the first or second round every year imo. OKC drafted smart, not lucky. Durant was a no brainer but Westbrook, Harden, Green etc. were all pretty solid picks.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 01:28 PM
Actually Im not so sure. The Rockets went about it in a way I didn't think was possible, by never tanking.

Yea I know you weren't disagreeing.. just thinking out loud. I agree the Rockets were an anomaly in how they rebuilt in like 1 year. I think Orlando should tank just 1 more year... then watch out in the future if they land a top 3 pick for 2014.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 01:29 PM
It's better than getting knocked out in the first or second round every year imo. OKC drafted smart, not lucky. Durant was a no brainer but Westbrook, Harden, Green etc. were all pretty solid picks.

Yup. Mediocre (1st round exits) or 9-10 seeds are pretty much like the worst places to be. Not good enough to advance or even make the playoffs but not bad enough to rack up good draft picks.

dhopisthename
06-24-2013, 01:29 PM
It's better than getting knocked out in the first or second round every year imo. OKC drafted smart, not lucky. Durant was a no brainer but Westbrook, Harden, Green etc. were all pretty solid picks.

they were extraordinary picks and is a run that would be nearly impossible to replicate for any team.

Chronz
06-24-2013, 01:33 PM
Yea I know you weren't disagreeing.. just thinking out loud. I agree the Rockets were an anomaly in how they rebuilt in like 1 year. I think Orlando should tank just 1 more year... then watch out in the future if they land a top 3 pick for 2014.

1 year? You dont follow the Rox much do you. They have rebuilding ever since Yao and Tmac were clearly done.

kingkenny01
06-24-2013, 01:34 PM
There good because the bucks think its smart to not play young assets and trade them for half a year of a shooting guard who played behind monta ellis

ManRam
06-24-2013, 01:34 PM
Looks like a line-up of role players to me lol

Even if they are all role players, to stock pile Vuc, Harkless, Harris and Nicholson that quickly is nothing but a positive. Considering how little time has passed since the Dwight trade, I think the Magic have to be pretty happy with where they're sitting right now.

I personally couldn't be happier with how this season went. I wouldn't change anything. Maybe hold out for a little more for Anderson, but who knows if that was even possible.

Poor trade for Dwight, but I still prefer it to the Lakers and Nets proposed packages. Houston's was my favorite, but it became iffy towards the end of those (questionable) rumors whether or not that was ever actually a possibility.


We were considered significant losers in that trade. Depending on what Dwight, Iggy and Bynum do in FA we could perhaps be the only long-term winners...even with sub-par value for Dwight.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 01:40 PM
1 year? You dont follow the Rox much do you. They have rebuilding ever since Yao and Tmac were clearly done.

I meant rebuild as in... when they really pushed their chips in it happened so fast how they basically swapped so much of the roster out. Only out of the playoffs 3 years and the first two years were still a borderline playoff team. So one bad year, then back to borderline contender. I remember before the Harden trade many wanted Morey out, then suddenly he mixes that roster up rapidly.

Vikingfan84
06-24-2013, 01:42 PM
Lets just hope they don't waste a pick on Mclemore. That guy is soft and will not be worth a top 10 pick.

bleedprple&gold
06-24-2013, 01:43 PM
Tanking does not guarantee you anything, even talent. You can tank but that make the team good in the long run. OKC got lucky with Durant and Westbrook. and you could be sucking for a long time,

Obviously tanking is not the only way to build a team. Stockpiling young assets to trade for a star player and creating cap space to pick up solid free agents is another way.

macc
06-24-2013, 01:45 PM
2014 first round draft pick from Denver
2016 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
2017 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers

Rob Hennigan has done a masterful job of getting the rebuild started in the right direction. Harris is a beast.




Exactly. The biggest thing was losing bad contracts and bringing in young talent with high upside. People don't know the players on Orlando so they'll underplay them, that's fine. It always happens. People didn't realize how good Paul George was prior to the playoffs starting. People def weren't talking about Leonard on San Antonio, now people are talking about him being the future of their franchise. So just like you stated above.

T-O-B-I-A-S H-A-R-R-I-S. He's going to be a stud. Don't be fooled by his numbers. He was burried on the bench on the Bucks and blossomed in Orlando as a high scorer, high efficiency player. He has a very Carmelo Anthonyesk to him. Pay attention to this guy. You heard it here first folks.

Harkless can develop into something very nice as well, "like" a Paul George. Realize he is only 19 and Tobias is only 20. These are the years NBA players vastly improve (not always, but typically). Harkless is still raw but if you watch him in the beginning of the year to the end, it's like night and day.

Who had the most rebounds in a single game in Orlando Magic history? Not Dwight, now Shaq, but Vucivec. He was in the top 5 or 7 (I forget) in double doubles last year. He's only 22. So he def has room to expand his game, though he already has nice touch around the rim and a nice 17 ft jump shot he makes consistantly.

Now people may say these guys have inflated stats for being a bad team but realize, Orlando wasn't as bad as their record. With all their injuries, Nelson, Turk (most of the season), Baby (most of the season), Harrington (most of the season), they were forced to "start" rotations of 4-5 rookies/second year players. Mix that with the fact the JJ Redick trade mid season bringing in 3 new players and you're talking about a team of rookies with no training camp together playing the 2nd half of the season. Jameer missed most of the end of the season and Orlando had Moore starting the majority of the games at the PG position and he's a backup PG at best, and he's also a 1st year player.

On top of this post above me with the draft pics in the future draft. Orlando obviously has the #2 in this draft at the very least should bring them back a #3 player on a good team, on top of that Orlando will have enough cap room to sign "2" max contract players in 2014.

So by 2014 you can have a team of

Nelson - Maybe Bledso
Oladipo/Mclemore
Harkless
Harris
Vuc

+ top pic in 2014 draft
+ 1-2 max contract players.

All of this stemming from a trade of Dwight Howard when he was a 1 year rental on a short list of teams he would actually go to.

Hennigan (so far) has done an amazing job with Orlando and this rebuild effort. It's always better to talk then be mediocre for years and years getting your team nowhere.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-24-2013, 01:48 PM
We deff didn't make out as bad as people act

We traded in a way to allow us to tank properly and not be an 8th seed the next 5 years

Vuc Harris and Moe are all young with lots of potential you can't say because we were bad there stats mean nothing ... winning will come with time and growth ... we couldn't get what Dwight's value is cause he backed us in a corner with the whole not signing anywhere but nets deal...

Lots of ifs but IF we traded for bledsoe and landed say Wiggins or Parker we could look like this

Bledsoe
Oladipo
Wiggins/Parker
Harris
Vuc

6th man harkless

With lots of cap space .... Nelson is a team option after this year, Turk can be bought out for 6 mil this year and Harrington can be bought out next year I believe

king4day
06-24-2013, 01:55 PM
I don't get why people are ripping this so much. I don't think the OP is assuming that this team will eventually become a title team as is. Just that they've acquired young assets and will continue to do so for the next year or 2 (via draft). Then they can sign/acquire free agents. So far, they are handling this rebuilding process as well as could be.

Now that being said, I still think they blew the Howard trade in that they could have and should have received more in return.

GiantsSwaGG
06-24-2013, 01:57 PM
Who's the superstar?

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 01:59 PM
I don't get why people are ripping this so much. I don't think the OP is assuming that this team will eventually become a title team as is. Just that they've acquired young assets and will continue to do so for the next year or 2 (via draft). Then they can sign/acquire free agents. So far, they are handling this rebuilding process as well as could be.

Now that being said, I still think they blew the Howard trade in that they could have and should have received more in return.

Thank you. Although like we said... had the Magic gotten more they would have been more competitive and not racked up the 2 pick this year and maybe another top 5 pick next year.

ManRam
06-24-2013, 02:11 PM
Who's the superstar?

Probably not on the roster yet...

But considering how early they are in this rebuilding process, is that really a huge knock on them?

celtNYpatsHeels
06-24-2013, 02:31 PM
Too bad they are stuck with big baby and al Harrington for the next 2 years

RipCity32
06-24-2013, 02:33 PM
They're doing a good job on they're rebuild but need that Harden type player that Houston has.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-24-2013, 02:33 PM
@ Celtnyheelspats ^^^ false

tr3ymill3r
06-24-2013, 02:47 PM
10 more years they will be decent enough for there best player to leave, again.

ztilzer31
06-24-2013, 02:52 PM
I remember how much everybody including me was dumping on them for basically trading Dwight for Harkless and a couple picks but fast forward a year and they might be the Rockets east here shortly where they rebuild RAPIDLY and suddenly become a legit playoff team.

A core of...


Olapido/McLemore
Harkless
Harris
Vujevic

Is impressive as hell to me. They have really stockpiled the assets. Then you flip Afflalo for Bledsoe and you have a starting five for the next 5+ years if you decide to keep everybody and they keep developing.

Just wanted to give props to the Magic because I was thinking about how impressive and quick their rebuild has been. I expected them to be the worst team for like 5 years with the Dwight setback and many here seemed to feel they were pretty doomed as well.

I understand what you're saying, but no one is going to give props to the Magic till ownership proves they want to be a contender.

I mean come on. This organization has had enough talent in the last 20 years to win 10 championships, but continues to fail. I know Dwight took a lot of heat for leaving, but that was also poorly handled my the Magic organization. It's just easier to blame Dwight.

The thing is say they start doing really well? Ownership will tear apart the team before it can do anything anyways.

Tony_Starks
06-24-2013, 02:54 PM
Still laughing at them....

Sandman
06-24-2013, 02:57 PM
All high upside/versatile, young players. Not role players though.

Nikola Vujevic: 13 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg, 1 bpg, 1 spg.
Mo Harkless: 17/8/3 as starter second half of the season.
Tobias Harris: 11 ppg, 5 rpg.
Olapido: Rookie but should be an amazing fit. McLemore would also be nice.

Harris had 17 and 8 with the Magic too

LongIslandIcedZ
06-24-2013, 03:11 PM
In another sport, this looks like a great rebuilding process. Unfortunately, in the NBA you generally need stars to succeed. With star players always looking to team up with other star players its tough to be a young rebuilding team. We'll see if Orlando can trade/draft/sign for a superstar. Until then, its a young up and coming team that will be a lot of fun to root for.

RiceOnTheRun
06-24-2013, 03:15 PM
they were extraordinary picks and is a run that would be nearly impossible to replicate for any team.

I agree. They were extraordinary picks because their GM drafted well. Tanking does not guarantee success, but if I'm a team like Orlando, do I wanna try and move forward with a core of mediocre guys or tank a few seasons for a chance to draft a franchise player? I'm not saying it gives them talent, but it gives the the opportunity to get talent.

Impossible to replicate is ridiculous. You're telling me no other team will ever draft that well ever again? Look at most of the league, they've begun adopting the Thunder's model of building through the draft rather than FA, which was previously adopted from the Spurs.

beasted86
06-24-2013, 03:31 PM
Post all star break Tobias averaged 17.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg. People are underrating the sh** out of these guys.

Inflated stats on a terrible team.

Guys like Harris, Gerald Henderson, Isiah Thomas, etc... are all really just role players. Their inflated stats on losing teams don't matter much.

5ass
06-24-2013, 04:24 PM
Inflated stats on a terrible team.

Guys like Harris, Gerald Henderson, Isiah Thomas, etc... are all really just role players. Their inflated stats on losing teams don't matter much.

how about you actually watch him play before spewing this line thats been repeated like 300 times in this thread. 17-8 with decent efficiency and defense at 20 years old and very little NBA experience is great. Even Magic fans dont expect him to be a superstar, but he's going to be a borderline all-star for years to come. He's already better than Thomas and Henderson and much younger than both.

Also to the other people in this thread that dont know what they're talking about. Turk and Harrington's contracts are partially guaranteed, and Nelson's is an expiring contract next year. We could have 25 mill in capspace in 2014 along with Harris, Harkless, Vuc, our 2013 #2 pick, our probably top 5 pick in 2014, and whoever we get for Afflalo.

bleedprple&gold
06-24-2013, 04:27 PM
I agree. They were extraordinary picks because their GM drafted well. Tanking does not guarantee success, but if I'm a team like Orlando, do I wanna try and move forward with a core of mediocre guys or tank a few seasons for a chance to draft a franchise player? I'm not saying it gives them talent, but it gives the the opportunity to get talent.

Impossible to replicate is ridiculous. You're telling me no other team will ever draft that well ever again? Look at most of the league, they've begun adopting the Thunder's model of building through the draft rather than FA, which was previously adopted from the Spurs.

Definitely not impossible to replicate. The Warriors have already replicated it.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 04:28 PM
how about you actually watch him play before spewing this line thats been repeated like 300 times in this thread. 17-8 with decent efficiency and defense at 20 years old and very little NBA experience is great. Even Magic fans dont expect him to be a superstar, but he's going to be a borderline all-star for years to come. He's already better than Thomas and Henderson and much younger than both.

Also to the other people in this thread that dont know what they're talking about. Turk and Harrington's contracts are partially guaranteed, and Nelson's is an expiring contract next year. We could have 25 mill in capspace in 2014 along with Harris, Harkless, Vuc, our 2013 #2 pick, our probably top 5 pick in 2014, and whoever we get for Afflalo.

Bledsoe.

Burgo
06-24-2013, 04:30 PM
they were extraordinary picks and is a run that would be nearly impossible to replicate for any team.

Agreed.

Thunder and Spurs have to be the 2 best examples of well-run ball clubs, as they've both turned small markets into places where players wanna go for championship shots.

richiesaurus310
06-24-2013, 04:33 PM
If they don't have a superstar they have nothing really. That's just reality. Not saying they couldn't trade for one down the road though.

5ass
06-24-2013, 04:36 PM
Bledsoe.

hopefully.

Burgo
06-24-2013, 04:36 PM
Seems that in today's NBA you need a team with a superstar to lure another superstar. Since no star is going to pack his bags for Orlando in a hurry, they really gotta rely on drafting well and turning a pick into a superstar.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-24-2013, 04:37 PM
We have only been rebuilding for a year ... chill out! We will get a superstar eventually

5ass
06-24-2013, 04:39 PM
If they don't have a superstar they have nothing really. That's just reality. Not saying they couldn't trade for one down the road though.

How can they trade for a superstar if they have "nothing", they obviously have something. They're not like when lebron went to miami and left the cavs with ****** vets and d-leaguers.

Sandman
06-24-2013, 04:46 PM
Seems that in today's NBA you need a team with a superstar to lure another superstar. Since no star is going to pack his bags for Orlando in a hurry, they really gotta rely on drafting well and turning a pick into a superstar.

or do what they did at the beginning of the last decade, have enough cap space to lure both.

They've never really been a joke franchise. The owner has always been willing to spend.

The botched Rashard Lewis signing basically triggered the set of events that led to Howard leaving

Lowball offer / blown out of the water offer led to Shaq leaving

They lured TMac and Grant Hill (and damn near Tim Duncan), and a healthy Grant Hill changes that script entirely. Say what you want about Duncan but he didn't make his decision because Orlando was missing something.

They had a 90m+ payroll the Dwight years. Granted 90m payrolls might be something of the past but they've never been afraid of spending

Chronz
06-24-2013, 05:05 PM
I meant rebuild as in... when they really pushed their chips in it happened so fast how they basically swapped so much of the roster out. Only out of the playoffs 3 years and the first two years were still a borderline playoff team. So one bad year, then back to borderline contender. I remember before the Harden trade many wanted Morey out, then suddenly he mixes that roster up rapidly.

You confused me even more. Have no idea what you were trying to say.


Lets review the years they missed the playoffs:

They went 42-40 (9th) in 2010
They went 43-39 (9th) in 2011
34-32 (9th) in 2012

So which one of those years qualifies as a bad year?

They finished as the 9th seed for 3 straight years, if any of them qualifies as a bad season dont they all qualify as a bad season?

And only morons wanted Morey gone so who cares?

5ass
06-24-2013, 05:14 PM
You confused me even more. Have no idea what you were trying to say.


Lets review the years they missed the playoffs:

They went 42-40 (9th) in 2010
They went 43-39 (9th) in 2011
34-32 (9th) in 2012

So which one of those years qualifies as a bad year?

They finished as the 9th seed for 3 straight years, if any of them qualifies as a bad season dont they all qualify as a bad season?

And only morons wanted Morey gone so who cares?

Morey got lucky with Harden. If he was on any other team he wouldnt have been available. While im not taking anything away from him, I also dont think its a better way to rebuild than tanking.

Burgo
06-24-2013, 05:20 PM
or do what they did at the beginning of the last decade, have enough cap space to lure both.

They've never really been a joke franchise. The owner has always been willing to spend.

The botched Rashard Lewis signing basically triggered the set of events that led to Howard leaving

Lowball offer / blown out of the water offer led to Shaq leaving

They lured TMac and Grant Hill (and damn near Tim Duncan), and a healthy Grant Hill changes that script entirely. Say what you want about Duncan but he didn't make his decision because Orlando was missing something.

They had a 90m+ payroll the Dwight years. Granted 90m payrolls might be something of the past but they've never been afraid of spending

Agree totally, but it's the happy-spending and generous contracts (Lewis, Turgkolu etc) that takes the opportunity away for stars to team up there because they can't afford it.

They were at their most successful when they drafted well (Although there was no way they could've messed up with Shaq, Penny (Webber)or Howard) and I think they should be focused on drafting as they aren't one of the big free agent destinations. It's possible that they land a pair of stars one day, but that same pair would take LA, MIA, even Dallas or Houston over Orlando if the opportunity comes up.

I really hope they find a way out of the hole they're in, but I don't see it happening unless they score big in the draft.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 05:21 PM
You confused me even more. Have no idea what you were trying to say.


Lets review the years they missed the playoffs:

They went 42-40 (9th) in 2010
They went 43-39 (9th) in 2011
34-32 (9th) in 2012

So which one of those years qualifies as a bad year?

They finished as the 9th seed for 3 straight years, if any of them qualifies as a bad season dont they all qualify as a bad season?

And only morons wanted Morey gone so who cares?

2012 was their only "bad" season IMO. 2010 and 2011 were overachieving years. So in my mind I'm just thinking of the 1 year they were particularly bad and how quickly they bounced back.

mightymouse407
06-24-2013, 05:27 PM
I don't get why people are ripping this so much. I don't think the OP is assuming that this team will eventually become a title team as is. Just that they've acquired young assets and will continue to do so for the next year or 2 (via draft). Then they can sign/acquire free agents. So far, they are handling this rebuilding process as well as could be.

Now that being said, I still think they blew the Howard trade in that they could have and should have received more in return.

ok now with that being said please entertain me and tell me which trade we should have taken that could have got us more back in return? maybe we shoulda took bynum and his horrible knees and got nothing back basically? or maybe the rockets trade for there draft picks and end up with jeremy lamb and royce white? or the nets trade for Lopez and brooks that would keep us as a mediocre team. we took the best trade for are team to rebuild and not be mediocre and get knocked out the 1st round every year

Chronz
06-24-2013, 05:34 PM
Morey got lucky with Harden. If he was on any other team he wouldnt have been available. While im not taking anything away from him, I also dont think its a better way to rebuild than tanking.
You get lucky with tanking and drafting too tho.

Chronz
06-24-2013, 05:36 PM
2012 was their only "bad" season IMO. 2010 and 2011 were overachieving years. So in my mind I'm just thinking of the 1 year they were particularly bad and how quickly they bounced back.
Their only bad season was one in which they won the same amount of games (% wise) and finished in the exact same slot?

Agree to disagree, the team consistently performed at this level because the players were consistently comparable. Hard to find any basis to the theory that the team should have performed wildly different.

5ass
06-24-2013, 05:42 PM
You get lucky with tanking and drafting too tho.

Ya but you also get more opportunities to get a star.

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 05:44 PM
Their only bad season was one in which they won the same amount of games (% wise) and finished in the exact same slot?

Agree to disagree, the team consistently performed at this level because the players were consistently comparable. Hard to find any basis to the theory that the team should have performed wildly different.

Or maybe time just flew by and it seemed way quicker than it was. I never pretend to follow them a lot. Just felt to me like their real turnaround was in one summer, although I guess the total process I didn't notice may have taken 3 years like you said. Maybe it's because they did multiple trades and signings in the one summer last year.

king4day
06-24-2013, 06:04 PM
ok now with that being said please entertain me and tell me which trade we should have taken that could have got us more back in return? maybe we shoulda took bynum and his horrible knees and got nothing back basically? or maybe the rockets trade for there draft picks and end up with jeremy lamb and royce white? or the nets trade for Lopez and brooks that would keep us as a mediocre team. we took the best trade for are team to rebuild and not be mediocre and get knocked out the 1st round every year

None were out there. I'm talking young assets (picks, 1st or 2nd year players).

Before Bynum's knees were toast, I did think he was the guy they should have gotten. With all of the guys involved in that 4way trade, it's hard to believe they couldn't hold out for something else.

Guppyfighter
06-24-2013, 06:04 PM
I was the only one that said this was a good trade for the Magic. I was lambasted for it.

beasted86
06-24-2013, 06:14 PM
how about you actually watch him play before spewing this line thats been repeated like 300 times in this thread. 17-8 with decent efficiency and defense at 20 years old and very little NBA experience is great. Even Magic fans dont expect him to be a superstar, but he's going to be a borderline all-star for years to come. He's already better than Thomas and Henderson and much younger than both.

Also to the other people in this thread that dont know what they're talking about. Turk and Harrington's contracts are partially guaranteed, and Nelson's is an expiring contract next year. We could have 25 mill in capspace in 2014 along with Harris, Harkless, Vuc, our 2013 #2 pick, our probably top 5 pick in 2014, and whoever we get for Afflalo.

I have watched him play. I was impressed by how well he played against the HEAT in both of the later games in the year.

That doesn't change the fact that he is a role player. He cannot create in ISO, he's a mediocre outside shooter, and he really is a tweener. His ceiling is Thaddeus Young IMO, and I'm not too impressed with him either.

IMO, a role player is basically someone who wouldn't be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and in some cases even 5th best player on a contender.... and that is what applies to Harris at this point. He's a quality role player, but not one of the better players on a good team.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-24-2013, 06:27 PM
Bro he is like 20 years old .... he could become alot more then a role player ....damn.... give him a year or 2

Clippersfan86
06-24-2013, 06:29 PM
Bro he is like 20 years old .... he could become alot more then a role player ....damn.... give him a year or 2

Welcome to basketball forums. Within your first couple years if you aren't a top 5 player, you never WILL be and you're a scrub. I get annoyed with this same dumb mentality.

Twins Fanatic
06-24-2013, 06:34 PM
Still laughing.

ztilzer31
06-24-2013, 06:35 PM
He can't create off iso against the Heat? Or he can't create off iso in general?

I don't there's many players in the NBA that can consistently create their own shots without good passing against Miami. You can't beat the Heat in 1v1... Even KD has problems sometimes in iso against the heat.

I think if you're judging someone's performance only by how he played at 20 years old against the NBA champs... Your opinion might be a little skewed.

ManRam
06-24-2013, 06:43 PM
I was the only one that said this was a good trade for the Magic. I was lambasted for it.

I wasn't around after it went down so I can't reference posts, but I can reference the fact that I HATED the proposed Nets deals because of financial reasons. The big reason why I liked this trade in the end was because although we didn't get established front-end talent (like a Lopez or Bynum) we got a tremendous amount of cap relief and more importantly the ability to bottom out. I talked for months about how if we trade Dwight I'd rather start back from the bottom than get a Lopez or Bynum and potentially be perennial 7th or 8th seeds. The proposed Bulls trades that Bulls fans were making were even worse financially and also have us stuck in middling limbo.

While we didn't get equal talent back in return we did get some solid cap relief (Afflalo and Harrington are the only big contracts we have from and both are movable, and we moved Richardson too), we got 5 draft picks and we got two young and cheap players.

Most importantly, this trade allowed us to tank and land a top-2 pick. All the others wouldn't have.


The only trade that was ever rumored to be possible that I liked was a Houston one. Even so, with Vucci and Harkless looking solid, that one might have not even been much better.

kyubi256
06-24-2013, 06:50 PM
They would need a James Harden type player first. A guy who would end up as a superstar on the team

5ass
06-24-2013, 07:27 PM
Houstons package wasnt better. Lamb is in the dleague, royce is a *****, and the toronto pick is the 12th. Who were going to draft at 12 thats better than vuc? Harkless was one of the best rookies. We also got 3 future 1sts.

Sandman
06-24-2013, 07:31 PM
All things considered still no reason to take Al Harrington back in the deal. Can't believe that ****.

ManRam
06-24-2013, 07:32 PM
Houstons package wasnt better. Lamb is in the dleague, royce is a *****, and the toronto pick is the 12th. Who were going to draft at 12 thats better than vuc? Harkless was one of the best rookies. We also got 3 future 1sts.

Yeah. Considering how Dwight put us in a position where we could only really trade him to 3 teams I think we did all right. People can laugh at us for not getting an elite player, but that wasn't ever possible. It was LAL, BK or HOU...and nothing else. It limited our choices and luckily we were able to bring in some other teams to make it work. It wasn't equal value, but it was the best we could do :shrug: It is what it is...but it's nothing to laugh at. What else could have we done?

SteveNash
06-24-2013, 08:06 PM
I wasn't laughing, but I am laughing at this thread.

MrfadeawayJB
06-24-2013, 08:20 PM
Yes potential is there. Vucevic is the only guy really good right now IMO

Jtirado16
06-24-2013, 08:23 PM
That's all role players.. This team won't be anywherr near playoff contention next year...

Chronz
06-24-2013, 09:00 PM
Ya but you also get more opportunities to get a star.

If you get the number 1 pick maybe, but for the vast majority of teams the draft yields less than stars. I really dont know how to answer this one, its one of those things that I can be talked into either way, but to be sold I would need some cold hard facts.

Chronz
06-24-2013, 09:02 PM
Yeah. Considering how Dwight put us in a position where we could only really trade him to 3 teams I think we did all right. People can laugh at us for not getting an elite player, but that wasn't ever possible. It was LAL, BK or HOU...and nothing else. It limited our choices and luckily we were able to bring in some other teams to make it work. It wasn't equal value, but it was the best we could do :shrug: It is what it is...but it's nothing to laugh at. What else could have we done?

What would Dwight have done if they had just traded him to whatever team gave the best offer? Would any team outside of those 3 have traded for Dwight not caring if he wanted to stay or play?

RiceOnTheRun
06-24-2013, 09:15 PM
How can they trade for a superstar if they have "nothing", they obviously have something. They're not like when lebron went to miami and left the cavs with ****** vets and d-leaguers.

Well, that's exactly why he left that team of ****** vets and d-leaguers.


Welcome to basketball forums. Within your first couple years if you aren't a top 5 player, you never WILL be and you're a scrub. I get annoyed with this same dumb mentality.

It's ridiculous sometimes. Just like how people are already calling Anthony Davis a bust when he hasn't even played a whole 82 games yet like damn.

dee279
06-24-2013, 09:23 PM
Well, that's exactly why he left that team of ****** vets and d-leaguers.



It's ridiculous sometimes. Just like how people are already calling Anthony Davis a bust when he hasn't even played a whole 82 games yet like damn.

Yea those are the guys who expected him to be a 20-10 guy first year. Thats crazy. He wasnt even that in college. The man needs time to grow physically and mentally.

ChitownBears22
06-24-2013, 09:24 PM
Let me know when they get a star. Until then we are still laughing

ManRam
06-24-2013, 09:27 PM
What would Dwight have done if they had just traded him to whatever team gave the best offer? Would any team outside of those 3 have traded for Dwight not caring if he wanted to stay or play?

I don't remember with complete clarity, but I don't remember any substantial rumors coming afloat where a team was willing to trade some of their future for a clear 1-year Dwight rental.

I never wanted the Magic to cater things to Dwight, or trade him where he wanted. But Dwight made it clear where he wanted to play and it clearly drove teams away.

Sandman
06-24-2013, 09:32 PM
I don't remember with complete clarity, but I don't remember any substantial rumors coming afloat where a team was willing to trade some of their future for a clear 1-year Dwight rental.

I never wanted the Magic to cater things to Dwight, or trade him where he wanted. But Dwight made it clear where he wanted to play and it clearly drove teams away.

Its a move that never came up but would have made sense for every party. I blame Howard.

But Harden & Perkins, or Westbrook for Howard. The Thunder had a young wing they wanted to trade & obv opportunity to pair Howard and Durant and Harden/Westbrook would be unreal. If Howard doesn't re-sign with the Thunder he'll be called a loser for the rest of his life.

Howard tried to baby his way to Brooklyn. Oh well. I hope HE IS a loser for the rest of his life.

Sandman
06-24-2013, 09:33 PM
double dribble