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AI
06-21-2013, 02:52 PM
Right-hander Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez, likely to be the next big thing from Cuba, drew a huge crowd of major-league executives at his showcase Thursday night in Tijuana, Mexico.

“The world was there to see him,” one executive said. “A million teams were in there.”

The Red Sox’s Ben Cherington was the only general manager to attend the showcase, while other clubs were represented by assistant GMs and scouting directors, major-league sources said.

Gonzalez, 26, missed most of the last two seasons while serving a suspension for attempting to defect, according to the Los Angeles Times. However, he made a strong impression while performing in game-like conditions in Tijuana, sources said.

Major League Baseball will declare Gonzalez a free agent once he receives clearance from the U.S. Treasury Department. He is not subject to the limits on international spending due to his age and the number of years he performed in Cuba’s top league.

In other words, he will be available to the highest bidder.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/article/sources_cherington_only_gm_to_attend_showcase/13886744?new_post=true

-Lavigne43-
06-21-2013, 06:38 PM
I think I remember a thread on him before. Does this guy have electric stuff? Or just a solid looking pitcher that could impact the races this year?

AI
06-21-2013, 10:04 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a thread about him, I'm definitely intrigued by him though.

AI
06-22-2013, 04:36 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@ken_Rosenthal
Let the bidding begin: RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez, a Cuban defector who threw for major-league teams Thursday night, is now a free agent.

Towelie
06-23-2013, 01:09 PM
I'd love to see him sign.....never enough pitching.

goshhhjosh
06-24-2013, 08:38 AM
This will be a secret bid process, correct?

I see that the Red Sox are linked to him as well as the Dodgers. I imagine the usual suspects like the Yankees and Rangers will be involved as well. The Orioles may also throw some money at him.

If the Dodgers are involved, they'll offer him 300 million easily.

BostonSports96
06-24-2013, 03:59 PM
Why not? Get him.

-Lavigne43-
06-24-2013, 06:28 PM
This will be a secret bid process, correct?

I see that the Red Sox are linked to him as well as the Dodgers. I imagine the usual suspects like the Yankees and Rangers will be involved as well. The Orioles may also throw some money at him.

If the Dodgers are involved, they'll offer him 300 million easily.

He's a MLB free agent, he will probably go to whoever gives him the highest contract. Bidding only happens with players under a teams contract in the Japan and Korea baseball leagues.

goshhhjosh
06-24-2013, 07:00 PM
Ok thanks for the clarification Lavs.

Station 13
06-25-2013, 06:41 AM
Scouting report on the player?

ZHawk1123
06-25-2013, 08:37 AM
I'd love to see him sign here, but not if the price get's too high

BostonSports96
06-25-2013, 03:02 PM
Scouting report on the player?

I couldn't find a full scouting report on him but I found that his arsenal includes a mid-90s fastball, a changeup, a curveball and a forkball (interesting.....).

They also said most of his stats from the Cuban league in 2010 (last time he pitched in a league) were above league average but that he had only an average K/9 ratio.

TragicallyHip
06-25-2013, 03:44 PM
Why, is there a salary cap that I don't know about, or are you footing the bill?

If they guy has legit talent then get him. I'm not sure if you've seen our current bullpen situation.

bruins>habs
06-25-2013, 04:03 PM
Would love to nab this guy. Never enough pitching....


Is he close to MLB ready?

BostonSports96
06-25-2013, 04:24 PM
Would love to nab this guy. Never enough pitching....


Is he close to MLB ready?

SOme scouts said he could start for a team after the AS break, and if not that then next season.

BostonSports96
06-25-2013, 04:25 PM
Why, is there a salary cap that I don't know about, or are you footing the bill?

If they guy has legit talent then get him. I'm not sure if you've seen our current bullpen situation.

He would most likely start for teams, he was a starter in Cuba. But we should still get him, because our rotation is starting to crack recently (Lester, Dempster, Doubront is always a wild card).

bruins>habs
06-25-2013, 04:47 PM
SOme scouts said he could start for a team after the AS break, and if not that then next season.

If that's true, then defnitely sign me up. With Webster, and RDLR already almost ready, he'd be another nice addition. Pitching, Pitching, Pitching.

-Lavigne43-
06-25-2013, 06:30 PM
Why, is there a salary cap that I don't know about, or are you footing the bill?

If they guy has legit talent then get him. I'm not sure if you've seen our current bullpen situation.

If teams like the Dodgers are in on this it could get expensive. You better be pretty sure he can at least be an average starter if you're going to give him ~$40M total. Also who knows if he's really 26.

AI
06-25-2013, 08:57 PM
If teams like the Dodgers are in on this it could get expensive. You better be pretty sure he can at least be an average starter if you're going to give him ~$40M total. Also who knows if he's really 26.

Cubans don't have to lie about their age because they just have to flee the country. Plus Iglesias said he played with him (knows him).

-Lavigne43-
06-25-2013, 09:49 PM
Cubans don't have to lie about their age because they just have to flee the country. Plus Iglesias said he played with him (knows him).

You're more attractive as a free agent if teams think you are younger then you actually are. It's also probably easier to fake that kind of information when you fled a country like Cuba. I don't think anyone believed Orlando Hernandez really was the age he was listed at.

Age is a tiny issue compared to how he would perform in MLB. These types of guys are hard to project.

grandsalami
07-15-2013, 06:24 PM
Jesse Sanchez ‏@JesseSanchezMLB 4m
#Cuba RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez has been cleared by US govt. (OFAC) & is free to sign with MLB club. Deal could happen this week or next.

https://twitter.com/JesseSanchezMLB/status/356900079493320704

Red sox?

AI
07-15-2013, 06:27 PM
We're definitely interested. I could see Cubs or Dodgers blowing their load on him as well.

bagwell368
07-15-2013, 07:19 PM
At 6’3”, Gonzalez has a lean, athletic build that doesn’t require future physical projection given his age. But despite his long limbs, the right-hander actually demonstrates plenty of present strength throughout his delivery. Furthermore, his frame helps generate lots of extension towards the plate.

Employing a high leg kick, Gonzalez hides the ball well and, for the most part, does a nice job of keeping his shoulders closed and in line with the plate. However, there are times when he’ll cut off his stride and rip open with his front shoulder, which leads to lower velocity and flatter offerings left up in the zone. Additionally, the right-hander doesn’t always finish his delivery and, in those instances, tends to rely on sheer arm strength rather than executing pitches.

################################################## ######

Gonzalez is older than 23 and played in Cuba’s top league for more than three seasons, so he will not be subject to MLB’s international spending cap. In other words, there will be no restriction on what he’ll be paid. Some are saying he could get a contract in the $40-60 million range.

Gonzalez stands at 6-foot-3 and Sanchez writes that he “has a fastball in the mid-90s, a changeup, fork and a curveball.” He made a name for himself at the 2010 University Baseball Championships in Tokyo and the Baseball World Cup in 2009 and 2011, but barely pitched in Cuba over the past two seasons, as he was suspended for attempting to leave the country. He finally fled earlier this year.

################################################## ##################

Statistically, the last year I can find that he played in the professional league in Cuba is 2009-2010. He had a ERA 2.13 better than league average, 6.99 K/9IP (19.2 K%), and 3.9 BB% (1.45 BB/9IP). League Average that year was 5.0 K/9IP and 3.83 BB/9IP. So Gonzalez was a lot better than league average, but when comparing him to other professional Cuban pitchers that came to the states, his strikeout rate is still pedestrian.

Reports are that he has a fastball, changeup, forkball, and curveball. This is the only video I can find of Gonzalez, and is what I used to write this article.

He really looks lanky in the video, but at his age, you don't expect him to really add weight. He seems to be able to locate his fastball low or high. It looks a little straight up high and the velocity doesn't look plus, but seems workable. He showed he can get in on lefties and break bats.

The change movement doesn't look great, but it looks like he gets on top of the curveball well. I wish I could see more of those two pitches. The forkball looks more like a splitter than the traditional forkball (at least compared to the ones you see in Japan) with quite a bit of arm side movement before dropping (almost looking like some kind of 2-seam hybrid).

Statistically, he had good command, and when teams see him throwing, they will obviously know his velocity, and without having very good readings, it is hard to really speak to his ceiling or placement in a rotation in the Majors. He does seem to have at least two big league pitches, and should be able to pitch in the big leagues, but how effectively I can't really speak to.



Based on this, $40-60M seems like too much.

SoxFan101NlB
07-16-2013, 03:05 PM
Based on this, $40-60M seems like too much.

Much better than giving up prospects though...If he could be as serviceable as, lets say...Ervin Santana...wouldn't he be worth just the money it would take to throw his way? Even if he can't pitch in the ML this year, we could keep him in AAA/AA just to see what he actually has, let our scouts do some write ups, and just see how he fairs against (better) competition.

bagwell368
07-16-2013, 04:08 PM
Much better than giving up prospects though...If he could be as serviceable as, lets say...Ervin Santana...wouldn't he be worth just the money it would take to throw his way? Even if he can't pitch in the ML this year, we could keep him in AAA/AA just to see what he actually has, let our scouts do some write ups, and just see how he fairs against (better) competition.

If you can't win w/o a deadline trade rape or with this guy - and still likely not win the WS with one - the prudent thing to do is let both go and not screw up the process of being a deep young team in '15-'17 and beyond.

homie564
07-17-2013, 12:55 PM
Fork ball.... hmmmm interesting

Lackeyfan41
07-17-2013, 03:27 PM
He would be a nice addition as hopefully a pen guy this year and possibly a starter next year.

I want him if the price tag is not ridiculous because of the Dodgers involvement.

Nomar
07-17-2013, 03:32 PM
Seems like best case scenario he is a #3 starter. I don't get the hype with him.

-Lavigne43-
07-17-2013, 09:23 PM
I don't think there has been much hype around him, at least in the media.

BostonSports96
07-19-2013, 04:29 PM
Sources say they expect Gonzalez to sign next week....favorite is most likely the Dodgers

GrkGawdofWalkz
07-19-2013, 08:08 PM
Get it done. Just take the risk and sign him. I have no real in sight outside of that. We could use a shot in the arm with our pitching staff.

RedSoxtober
07-22-2013, 12:08 PM
Not really sure why people consider him to be an immediate impact on the big club. With few exceptions younger Cuba players tend to hit somewhere between A+/AA when the come into a farm system. With a reported age of 23 he may tend towards AA but wherever he lands I doubt it's with the big club.

Nomar
07-22-2013, 03:17 PM
Not really sure why people consider him to be an immediate impact on the big club. With few exceptions younger Cuba players tend to hit somewhere between A+/AA when the come into a farm system. With a reported age of 23 he may tend towards AA but wherever he lands I doubt it's with the big club.

I've read he was 26

grandsalami
07-22-2013, 08:03 PM
Jesse Sanchez ‏@jessesanchezmlb 22m
#Cuba RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez update: Field has been narrowed to five teams and a deal could come down in next couple of days.

Jesse Sanchez ‏@jessesanchezmlb 17m
What's certain with M.A. Gonzalez: The price has gone up & number of teams has gone down. I imagine usual teams still in but can't guess.

Jesse Sanchez ‏@jessesanchezmlb 10m
#BlueJays, #Braves, #Cubs, #Dodgers, #Marlins, #Phillies, #Rangers, #RedSox, #Twins & #Yankees were among teams with serious interest in MAG
?
twitter.com/JesseSanchezMLB

RedSoxtober
07-23-2013, 01:51 PM
I've read he was 26

Still don't see him missing helping the Sox this year. Missed the most of the last two years trying to defect. When he played, it was with the equivalent of something in the middle of the farm system. Where's the evidence that he's ready to make an impact in light of that?

Nomar
07-23-2013, 01:58 PM
Still don't see him missing helping the Sox this year. Missed the most of the last two years trying to defect. When he played, it was with the equivalent of something in the middle of the farm system. Where's the evidence that he's ready to make an impact in light of that?

Oh I agree. I just don't think he looks good period. Not really interested in him.

JMP83
07-23-2013, 02:09 PM
BA published a new Scouting Report on him today, here: http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/miguel-alfredo-gonzalez-scouting-report/.

It's behind a Paywall so I won't spoil everything, but here are the basics: low 90's fastball, possible above-average splitter and change, average to below-average breaking ball depending which scout is seeing him, solid control, inconsistent command, split on reliever or starter but will be a major leaguer.

-Lavigne43-
07-23-2013, 05:10 PM
We weren't involved or interested in Chapman, Darvish, Cespedes, Puig, Soler, Ryu...I'm glad we are at least involved in this. If they think he can be a solid starter they should sign him.

BostonSports96
07-23-2013, 05:28 PM
We weren't involved or interested in Chapman, Darvish, Cespedes, Puig, Soler, Ryu...I'm glad we are at least involved in this. If they think he can be a solid starter they should sign him.

As I remember it, we were in on Cespedes and Soler in the beginning, but were never serious with it.

RedSoxtober
07-24-2013, 08:50 AM
As I remember it, we were in on Cespedes and Soler in the beginning, but were never serious with it.

True

-Lavigne43-
07-24-2013, 10:41 AM
Our involvement was minimal. Really just the media guessing our name as a team involved.

RedSoxtober
07-24-2013, 02:17 PM
I guess that it depends on what involved means. Members of the FO, including Ben, went to watch him work out. While that's not extraordinary, getting the top brass there shows a higher level of interest than most.

IIRC, he was signed very soon after he became a FA. Theo seems to have bet the farm on him with pre-emptive bidding that prevented others from becoming more deeply involved.

-Lavigne43-
07-25-2013, 12:01 PM
I remember the day of that workout Badler jokingly sent out this link and said it was a list of teams there http://mlb.mlb.com/team/index.jsp

We haven't heavily been in on anyone since DiceK because they're scared of that market since that investment. It's the same on this site, with every one of those guys there were people saying "no way" because of the reported cost, and the cost has always ended up being lower than expected.

Lucchino on the radio says they are heavily interested http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/07/25/larry-lucchino-on-dc-red-sox-looking-at-cuban-pitcher-miguel-alfredo-gonzalez-pretty-hard/

SirHizz
07-25-2013, 12:21 PM
When someone claims to be "heavily interested", doesn't that usually mean the opposite? Strange, why would you come out and let other teams know your approach?
I hope we get him...just for the reason that it's nothing more than money and I couldn't care less about it.

mooz
07-25-2013, 12:56 PM
When someone claims to be "heavily interested", doesn't that usually mean the opposite? Strange, why would you come out and let other teams know your approach?
I hope we get him...just for the reason that it's nothing more than money and I couldn't care less about it.

Don't read too far into it, it's Lucchino, he's an idiot and thinking things through before acting or reacting isn't exactly what he's known for.

RedSoxtober
07-25-2013, 02:16 PM
I remember the day of that workout Badler jokingly sent out this link and said it was a list of teams there http://mlb.mlb.com/team/index.jsp

We haven't heavily been in on anyone since DiceK because they're scared of that market since that investment. It's the same on this site, with every one of those guys there were people saying "no way" because of the reported cost, and the cost has always ended up being lower than expected.

Lucchino on the radio says they are heavily interested http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/07/25/larry-lucchino-on-dc-red-sox-looking-at-cuban-pitcher-miguel-alfredo-gonzalez-pretty-hard/

From ESPNBoston.com on 2/24/12

All of the Sox top talent evaluators, including general manager Ben Cherington, have seen Soler in the Dominican Republic, where they traveled to see several top Cuban defectors, including Yoenis Cespedes. Oakland recently signed 26-year-old outfielder Cespedes to a four-year, $36 million deal, and the Chicago Cubs signed an 18-year-old left-handed pitcher, Gerardo Concepcion, to a $7 million deal.

While the Sox certainly had interest in Cespedes and to a lesser degree Concepcion, the younger Soler has the greatest appeal to them, the official said. “He has incredible raw power,’’ the official said of the 6-foot-3, 200-pounder, though he wasn’t quite as ready as others to credit Soler with plus speed and being a plus defender.

grandsalami
07-26-2013, 01:25 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings130726/calling-stiffer-ped-penalties-mlb


Clubs that are in on Cuban pitcher Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez are giving off the vibe that the Red Sox are the favorite, because, more and more, they like the idea of spending the money on a guy they believe is big league-ready more than overpaying in prospects for just about any pitcher on the trade market. "This guy should pitch in the big leagues by September and take a regular turn in the rotation next year," one exec said. "Very impressive guy."

WOOOOO

Nomar
07-26-2013, 02:26 PM
coo.

AI
07-26-2013, 06:49 PM
Jesse Sanchez @jessesanchezmlb
Source: #Cuba RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez sweepstakes is nearing a conclusion. It's down to two teams: One in each league.

My best guess would be Boston and the Cubs.

-Lavigne43-
07-26-2013, 10:02 PM
Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 1m
Cuban RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez and Philadelphia Phillies have agreed on six-year deal worth more than $50M, club source tells Y! Sports.

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 1m
The Phillies beat out the Boston Red Sox for Miguel Angel Gonzalez.

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 2m
With bonus money, the Gonzalez deal could reach upwards of $60M, a record for an international player, source said.

Glad we didn't outbid them. Way too much money

-Lavigne43-
07-26-2013, 10:08 PM
Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 33s
The Phillies beat out the Boston Red Sox for Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez. Bidding went down to the wire tonight. More money won for Phils.

bagwell368
07-26-2013, 10:24 PM
Chances are 3 out of 4 it was good to lose this battle.

Soxfan85
07-26-2013, 10:33 PM
Im curious what we offered

grandsalami
07-26-2013, 10:49 PM
“@JeffPassan: Final details on Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez deal: six years, $48M guaranteed, with a vesting option for a seventh year at $11M.”
Eh with the varying opinion from scouts (some saw him as a RP and some saw him as a starter. The phillies are taking a gamble

Nomar
07-26-2013, 10:58 PM
Going by what I've read he's overrated because if guys like puig cespedes and chapman coming up and doing well. This guy is not high ceiling and the floor isn't really set so its a decent risk. We had the money but prob not a big loss if a loss at all.

RedSoxtober
07-27-2013, 06:47 PM
The Red Sox indicated from the beginning they never wanted to break the bank on Miguel Gonzalez. Why? For one there were red flags on the Cuban righthander's medicals. He's had elbow issues.

Secondly, the Red Sox, who according to a major league source were indeed the runner-up, have plenty of good pitching prospects, some of whom project better than Gonzalez.

In the end, the Phillies had the greatest need and signed him to a 6-year, $48 million deal that included a vesting option of $11 million first reported by Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports. The Red Sox would never have gone to a potential fifth year having already been burned on the Daisuke Matsuzaka contract where they bid $51 million and handed out $52 million over six years.

The Red Sox also didn't feel that Gonzalez could have helped the team this season during their pennant drive.Boston.com

-Lavigne43-
07-27-2013, 07:48 PM
The Red Sox would never have gone to a potential fifth year having already been burned on the Daisuke Matsuzaka contract where they bid $51 million and handed out $52 million over six years.

That's a horrible reason if true. One bad deal makes us never invest heavily in an international guy again? There's been plenty of good international signs. Yu Darvish would look great in the rotation right now, but we didn't try at all because of DiceK. MAG is not the same kind of talent as those two.

grandsalami
07-27-2013, 07:54 PM
That's a horrible reason if true. One bad deal makes us never invest heavily in an international guy again? There's been plenty of good international signs. Yu Darvish would look great in the rotation right now, but we didn't try at all because of DiceK. MAG is not the same kind of talent as those two.
im guessing its a mix of dice-k, his elbow issues, and the 200000 different opinions on him from scouts (anywhere from a BP long man to a middle of the rotation starter). If it was a darvish or a puig, it might be different

-Lavigne43-
07-27-2013, 08:34 PM
I agree with them not outbidding the Phillies. DiceK should have no factor at all in the decision though

RedSoxtober
07-29-2013, 10:40 AM
I have a feeling that that is the reporter's (the ever insightful Cafardo) opinion.

redsox96
08-07-2013, 12:40 PM
Sounds like a deal may not actually be done.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130806&content_id=56070666&notebook_id=56115320&vkey=notebook_phi&c_id=phi

AI
08-30-2013, 03:47 PM
Per Rosenthal: #Phillies announce signing of Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez to revised three-year, $12M contract.

I'm assuming it includes a shitload of incentives.

-Lavigne43-
08-30-2013, 04:06 PM
Probably. His physical must have been ****