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View Full Version : LeBron TOP 10 GOAT...Wade TOP 20 GOAT



canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:16 AM
Bow down to greatness!!!

bucketss
06-21-2013, 12:17 AM
:worthy: king james

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:18 AM
Eh Wade is more like top 40-50 at best... Lebron is already top 10-15.

Riodagoat
06-21-2013, 12:18 AM
:worthy: Lebrawn

LayBraun
06-21-2013, 12:19 AM
lebron is top 5 with that win

chi-townlove1
06-21-2013, 12:20 AM
Eh Wade is more like top 40-50 at best... Lebron is already top 10-15.

That's about accurate.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:20 AM
Eh Wade is more like top 40-50 at best... Lebron is already top 10-15.
HAHAHA LMAO!! Name 40 players better than Wade

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:21 AM
HAHAHA LMAO!! Name 40 players better than Wade

Why do I need to make a list? Wade is nowhere near top 20 in my personal opinion. Top 40-50 is still amazing.

shep33
06-21-2013, 12:22 AM
Wade is not top 20

MTL_123
06-21-2013, 12:23 AM
Lebron----i aint worry bout nothin

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:23 AM
Why do I need to make a list? Wade is nowhere near top 20 in my personal opinion. Top 40-50 is still amazing.

You can't make a realistic list other than the obvious ones.

zn23
06-21-2013, 12:24 AM
LeBron James is officially a top 10 player of all time

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:24 AM
Wade is not top 20

Name 20 players better than Wade

10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:29 AM
Name 20 players better than Wade

10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Kareem
Russell
Kobe
Hakeem
Big O
Dr J
Duncan
Malone (Karl)
Malone (Moses)
Barkley
Lebron
Stockton
Robinson
Zeke
Ewing
Drexler
Dirk

Players that still rank higher all time to me (quick 22 off top of my head, can find more). All time list is a collective and it's rare that a player at 30 will be ranked with long retired players. Maybe we can compromise at Wade being 30-40 instead of 40-50. Not top 20 yet though.

chi-townlove1
06-21-2013, 12:29 AM
Not worth the time but there is easily 45 players better than wade.

shep33
06-21-2013, 12:31 AM
Name 20 players better than Wade

10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Jerry West
Kareem
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem
LeBron
Pippen
Oscar
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Elgin Baylor
Isiah Thomas
Julius Erving
John Havlichek
Kevin Garnett
Barkley
Ewing


Probably a couple I'm missing

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:32 AM
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Kareem
Russell
Kobe
Hakeem
Big O
Dr J
Duncan
Malone (Karl)
Malone (Moses)
Barkley
Lebron
Stockton
Robinson
Zeke
Ewing
Drexler
Dirk

Players that still rank higher all time to me (quick 22 off top of my head, can find more). All time list is a collective and it's rare that a player at 30 will be ranked with long retired players. Maybe we can compromise at Wade being 30-40 instead of 40-50. Not top 20 yet though.
Hell no to the bolded. If you combine stats and rings, Wade is better. Plain and simple.

Khri
06-21-2013, 12:32 AM
Eh Wade is more like top 40-50 at best... Lebron is already top 10-15.

Wade top 40-50 at best? Are you serious? No wonder you're a Clippers fan.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:34 AM
Not worth the time but there is easily 45 players better than wade.
And besides the obvious ones you can't name them.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:35 AM
Hell no to the bolded. If you combine stats and rings, Wade is better. Plain and simple.

Rings= team accomplishment. Sure they mean a TON in all time ranking but there are exceptions like Barkley+Malone who are absolutely more dominant than Wade all time who DIDN'T win a ring. Give them Lebron as a teammate and they have rings.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:35 AM
Wade top 40-50 at best? Are you serious? No wonder you're a Clippers fan.

I think Wade didn't sign his autograph or something.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:37 AM
Rings= team accomplishment. Sure they mean a TON in all time ranking but there are exceptions like Barkley+Malone who are absolutely more dominant than Wade all time who DIDN'T win a ring. Give them Lebron as a teammate and they have rings.

Wade has won a ring w/o LeBron. So LeBron or no LeBron, Wade wouldn't be as ringless as both Barkley and Malone.

chi-townlove1
06-21-2013, 12:37 AM
Hell no to the bolded. If you combine stats and rings, Wade is better. Plain and simple.

Rings= team accomplishment. Sure they mean a TON in all time ranking but there are exceptions like Barkley+Malone who are absolutely more dominant than Wade all time who DIDN'T win a ring. Give them Lebron as a teammate and they have rings.

Couldn't agree more.

jayjay33
06-21-2013, 12:37 AM
Name 20 players better than Wade

10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Jerry West
Kareem
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem
LeBron
Pippen
Oscar
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Elgin Baylor
Isiah Thomas
Julius Erving
John Havlichek
Kevin Garnett
Barkley
Ewing


Probably a couple I'm missing

Pippen, Hondo, west, isiah are not better than prime wade.

Khri
06-21-2013, 12:38 AM
I think Wade didn't sign his autograph or something.

He's a well known Heat hater.

The fact that there are people who think that Wade is not in the top 25 tells you all that you need to know about their basketball knowledge.

Nick O
06-21-2013, 12:39 AM
wade is not top 20.. lebron was already top 10 ...

shep33
06-21-2013, 12:39 AM
Pippen, Hondo, west, isiah are not better than prime wade.



Are we talking about Prime years? Or are we talking abotu all-time ranking?

jayjay33
06-21-2013, 12:39 AM
I knew it was coming the lebrites are coming out of the wood work.

It was only a matter of time before they started with the Baby Jesus wears LBJ pajamas. Lol

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:40 AM
wade is not top 20.. lebron was already top 10 ...

But you can't name 20 players better than Wade

shep33
06-21-2013, 12:40 AM
He's a well known Heat hater.

The fact that there are people who think that Wade is not in the top 25 tells you all that you need to know about their basketball knowledge.


I've got Wade between 20-25 right now.

Khri
06-21-2013, 12:41 AM
I've got Wade between 20-25 right now.

As he should be. :cheers:

Nick O
06-21-2013, 12:41 AM
Pippen, Hondo, west, isiah are not better than prime wade.

its a full career.. not prime... West for example was dominant his whole career. If you're just going by prime why dont we put t-mac and carter iverson ahead of him.. they're primes were better

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:41 AM
Are we talking about Prime years? Or are we talking abotu all-time ranking?
Prime Wade was pretty much a 5-6 year run, which was significantly better than anything they'd done.

Nick O
06-21-2013, 12:43 AM
But you can't name 20 players better than Wade

sure i could.. id put him top 30 .. his career isnt over ans hes on a decline.. hes need more great seasons.. this season was pretty poor for him.. if he plays like that the rest of the way then he isnt top 20

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:43 AM
its a full career.. not prime... West for example was dominant his whole career. If you're just going by prime why dont we put t-mac and carter iverson ahead of him.. they're primes were better
Prime Iverson and Carter was better than Wade?
Peak T-Mac was a 30 PER player like Wade, but his 5-6 best seasons are not > Wade.

Khri
06-21-2013, 12:44 AM
its a full career.. not prime... West for example was dominant his whole career. If you're just going by prime why dont we put t-mac and carter iverson ahead of him.. they're primes were better

How exactly were their prime better when they didn't do anything? T-mac was basically what Carmelo is now.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:45 AM
Wade has won a ring w/o LeBron. So LeBron or no LeBron, Wade wouldn't be as ringless as both Barkley and Malone.

Were you even a fan in 06? He had just leaving prime Shaq who was still a player NOBODY could match up with. Wade turned in a legendary finals performance but Shaq was still a HUGE impact player and a superb pairing for Wade. PER 36 Shaq still put up 23/11/2 that year.

Barkley played with FAR inferior talent than Wade throughout his career and Malone+Stockton were denied by Jordan. Point is don't use rings without context

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:45 AM
sure i could.. id put him top 30 .. his career isnt over ans hes on a decline.. hes need more great seasons.. this season was pretty poor for him.. if he plays like that the rest of the way then he isnt top 20

Pretty poor? Wade had a 24 PER with .190 WS/48 and you call that poor?

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:45 AM
Heat fans confusing prime vs all time which factors in your TOTAL accomplishments, success, stats etc. Wade isn't top 20 yet PERIOD.

Nick O
06-21-2013, 12:47 AM
Prime Iverson and Carter was better than Wade?
Peak T-Mac was a 30 PER player like Wade, but his 5-6 best seasons are not > Wade.

what do you consider prime.. wheres the cut off? why is 5-6 seasons not 2-3? why not just one year? id rather a guy who is really good for 10-15 seasons.like west then a guy who is great for 5

Nick O
06-21-2013, 12:47 AM
Pretty poor? Wade had a 24 PER with .190 WS/48 and you call that poor?

for him

shep33
06-21-2013, 12:48 AM
As he should be. :cheers:

Yeah, I don't get why people think this is a bad thing lol

ATX
06-21-2013, 12:48 AM
LeBron top 10

Wade top 25

No question

cmellofan15
06-21-2013, 12:49 AM
How exactly were their prime better when they didn't do anything? T-mac was basically what Carmelo is now.

Melo will never have a season close to what T Mac did. But carry on, because that's completely off topic.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:50 AM
Were you even a fan in 06? He had just leaving prime Shaq who was still a player NOBODY could match up with. Wade turned in a legendary finals performance but Shaq was still a HUGE impact player and a superb pairing for Wade. PER 36 Shaq still put up 23/11/2 that year.

Barkley played with FAR inferior talent than Wade throughout his career and Malone+Stockton were denied by Jordan. Point is don't use rings without context
Shaq was a huge liability in the 4th quarter of that Finals, and averaged something like 14-10, not stellar numbers at all. Wade did all the work, and had one of the GOAT Finals performances in NBA history both in 2011 and 2006

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:53 AM
Shaq was a huge liability in the 4th quarter of that Finals, and averaged something like 14-10, not stellar numbers at all. Wade did all the work, and had one of the GOAT Finals performances in NBA history both in 2011 and 2006

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

Shaq's impact goes WELL beyond stats. Even in his early 30's (I think he was 32 or 33 that year) he still commanded nonstop double teams pretty much and completely altered the complexion of games like NOBODY else in the game could. Wade averaged what 18 free throw attempts per game in the finals, which accounted for like 35 percent of his total scoring? Not saying he didn't dominate but there are factors you're not mentioning. Just don't like like Wade carried scrubs, which is what you're doing.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:54 AM
what do you consider prime.. wheres the cut off? why is 5-6 seasons not 2-3? why not just one year? id rather a guy who is really good for 10-15 seasons.like west then a guy who is great for 5

I usually associate prime with best 4-6 year stretch. Peak would be something like 1-2 years

Peak Wade had a slightly higher PER than Peak McGrady.

But Wade overall had 5-6 seasons with PER higher than McGrady's 2nd best PER season.

Nick O
06-21-2013, 12:56 AM
I usually associate prime with best 4-6 year stretch. Peak would be something like 1-2 years

Peak Wade had a slightly higher PER than Peak McGrady.

But Wade overall had 5-6 seasons with PER higher than McGrady's 2nd best PER season.

ot.. what do you have against Ryne Sandberg?

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:57 AM
Mike Wise ‏@MikeWiseguy 16s
Magic just told LeBron on the ESPN set that he believed LeBron was going to be the greatest to ever play the game.

ThuglifeJ
06-21-2013, 02:06 AM
No. Shut up. this is really a main reason why I rooted against the Heat. Just because it gets everyone thinking like this.

they teamed up to make an extremely stacked and spoiled little team and won as they should have.

Swashcuff
06-21-2013, 02:07 AM
Wade top 40? :laugh2:

Wade has as good a case as anyone for top 20 all time, IMO he's top 25. This title hasn't changed his rank at all IMO however, a brief skim across the internet through all knowledgable sources you'd see that its universally accepted that Wade is a top 30 player all time already. People who say this player or that player isn't ranked here without any substance crack me up.

Take the time to make a comparison of Wade to players many of you have in your top 30 all time, do you really think its that farfetched to think that he doesn't deserve to be there.

shep33
06-21-2013, 02:12 AM
Wade top 40? :laugh2:

Wade has as good a case as anyone for top 20 all time, IMO he's top 25. This title hasn't changed his rank at all IMO however, a brief skim across the internet through all knowledgable sources you'd see that its universally accepted that Wade is a top 30 player all time already. People who say this player or that player isn't ranked here without any substance crack me up.

Take the time to make a comparison of Wade to players many of you have in your top 30 all time, do you really think its that farfetched to think that he doesn't deserve to be there.

I got him between 20-25. I think as of now I pinned him at 23 or 24 on my list. Not that my list counts for anything lol

ThuglifeJ
06-21-2013, 02:17 AM
Wades top 35. But that's mostly for his stints before the superteam. Winning now with his team just doesn't seem like a big deal, it's expected.

Swashcuff
06-21-2013, 02:18 AM
I got him between 20-25. I think as of now I pinned him at 23 or 24 on my list. Not that my list counts for anything lol

My point with all of this is that people always make these claims about active players in their prime because they hold all those that came before in such high prestige but when you really analyze the current players to those who came before you'd actually surprise yourself as to how favourably they matchup/rank.

naps
06-21-2013, 02:18 AM
24.7 ppg/ 6.1 apg/ 5.1 rpg/ 1.8 spg/ 1bpg/ 49% FG.

25.5 PER/ 0.195 WS/ 0.567 TS%

3 CHMAPIONSHIPS, 1 FINALS MVP.

YES, I bet he's a top 20 player of all-time. Highly doubt there are 20 players better than this.





LeBron is top 8.

Swashcuff
06-21-2013, 02:18 AM
Wades top 35. But that's mostly for his stints before the superteam. Winning now with his team just doesn't seem like a big deal, it's expected.

Magic essentially walked onto a super team. Were his titles a big deal?

RiceOnTheRun
06-21-2013, 02:20 AM
Rings= team accomplishment. Sure they mean a TON in all time ranking but there are exceptions like Barkley+Malone who are absolutely more dominant than Wade all time who DIDN'T win a ring. Give them Lebron as a teammate and they have rings.


Couldn't agree more.


Where was all this "team accomplishment" talk when it came to rating Lebron?

OceanSpray
06-21-2013, 02:21 AM
Eh Wade is more like top 40-50 at best... Lebron is already top 10-15.

Wow, no wonder you got banned from insidehoopz. You and those 30000 posts in under one year. You're obviously a troll at this point. Wade is the 3rd best SG in the history of NBA. He has the rings and credentials to prove it. If Wade is the 40-50th best player, then I'd love to see that list.

naps
06-21-2013, 02:22 AM
Wades top 35. But that's mostly for his stints before the superteam. Winning now with his team just doesn't seem like a big deal, it's expected.

Well then you probably shouldn't give as much importance to some of Kareem/Magic's rings as well when it comes to their ring counts and all-time rankings. Someone could argue they had each other for those rings they have won. Wade 1 as the best player and 2 as the second best player. Plain and simple.

RiceOnTheRun
06-21-2013, 02:22 AM
No. Shut up. this is really a main reason why I rooted against the Heat. Just because it gets everyone thinking like this.

they teamed up to make an extremely stacked and spoiled little team and won as they should have.

Whoawhoawhoa, calm down there. Thug life must be gettin to ya bro. What happened to everyone counting the Heat out before the last 30 seconds of Game 6?

camador22
06-21-2013, 02:27 AM
I cant name 15 players better than Wade all time. Lebron also surpussed Kobe all time and is clearly a top 10 player ever

HuRRiCaNeS324
06-21-2013, 02:29 AM
Wade is DEFINITELY the 3rd best SG ever. Idk where that ranks him overall, but with SG being one of the most important positions imo, he must be really high.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 02:31 AM
Wade is in the 15-20 range. Wade was just as impactful as guys like Barkley and Malone while winning more rings. Wade led his team to championship -- something that Malone and Barkley never did.

naps
06-21-2013, 02:34 AM
Reading through this thread makes me think Wade is supremely underrated by non-Heat fans.

OceanSpray
06-21-2013, 02:35 AM
I don't get how some people rank players. It's understandable that Barkley/Malone are over Wade but why does this not fall under LeBron James? When LeBron James had 1 ring, you all said he needed more. Wade has 3, Malone/Barkley have 0. Wade had a better prime than those two and definitely more success. If he's not somewhere in the 15-25 mark, please, show me the list. And also include players with rings because if not, James should be the top 5 by now.

Teeboy1487
06-21-2013, 02:37 AM
Wade is DEFINITELY the 3rd best SG ever. Idk where that ranks him overall, but with SG being one of the most important positions imo, he must be really high.
Wade is severely underrated at this point.

naps
06-21-2013, 02:38 AM
I don't get how some people rank players. It's understandable that Barkley/Malone are over Wade but why does this not fall under LeBron James? When LeBron James had 1 ring, you all said he needed more. Wade has 3, Malone/Barkley have 0. Wade had a better prime than those two and definitely more success. If he's not somewhere in the 15-25 mark, please, show me the list. And also include players with rings because if not, James should be the top 5 by now.

EXACTLY. When it comes to LeBron it's championships but when it comes to Wade championships don't matter. They all MAD now!

tredigs
06-21-2013, 02:39 AM
Oh man, I wish threads like this were locked for a good 3 months following any Finals game just to holster quick reactions.

But what a series. They earned it . Lebron's certainly not the best I have ever seen, but he is a ****ing specimen. Love his play. I lost a lot of money on it by the Spurs not covering 6 on game 7, but what a great, great series. One that kids will remember.

naps
06-21-2013, 02:40 AM
Wade is severely underrated at this point.

Thank you! You, Shep, Avenged, Chaccarn, Bruno etc are rational Lakers fans.

Korman12
06-21-2013, 02:53 AM
Not worth the time but there is easily 45 players better than wade.

It's really not that "easy." Not saying he's top 20 either (A good excuse for myself to make a giant list now), but not top 45 is stretching it I think.

Teeboy1487
06-21-2013, 03:00 AM
Thank you! You, Shep, Avenged, Chaccarn, Bruno etc are rational Lakers fans.

There are alot of rational Laker fans. The haters and trolls are just louder. I honestly don't understand the hate. Even if Lebron would have lost, he will be better than Kobe at the end of the day. I have no shame in that because Kobe is one of the greatest to play on my favorite team. I have experience 5 championship as a fan. I'm good for a lifetime with basketball even though I want the Lakers to surpass those leprechauns in championships. My point is, Lebron being better does not take away from anything Kobe and what he accomplished in his career. I wish more people would realize this and quit with the comparisons and enjoy Lebron while we have him. There will never be another like him. Athletic freak that can do everything and has 3pt range.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:05 AM
It's really not that "easy." Not saying he's top 20 either (A good excuse for myself to make a giant list now), but not top 45 is stretching it I think.

Name your 20.

OceanSpray
06-21-2013, 03:05 AM
Some people say there are 45 players better than Wade, yet I don't think they can name them without intense hours of googling. Please, someone who truly believes that Wade is a 45-50 player, provide a list. I sure as hell know there aren't 45 Finals MVP.

tredigs
06-21-2013, 03:13 AM
I'll tell you one thing, Bosh is a ****ing nobody. Game 7 - 0 points? Yikes. And that's the sad truth for his legacy.

Teeboy1487
06-21-2013, 03:18 AM
Wade right now is at least top 5 SG of all time. Right now, I say he is number 3 after Jordan and Kobe. You can't argue with 3 rings and he majorly contributed to all of them. Wade is Top 15-20 imo.

Teeboy1487
06-21-2013, 03:20 AM
I'll tell you one thing, Bosh is a ****ing nobody. Game 7 - 0 points? Yikes. And that's the sad truth for his legacy.

No don't say that because you can not forget what Bosh did in Game 6. If it weren't for him, there would not have been a game 7.

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:24 AM
I think people are underrating Wade because of the moment. He had a tough playoffs, I think Miami fans would agree. However, that shouldn't take away from his past accomplishments.

Great player, and I think he's in that 20-25 range.

OceanSpray
06-21-2013, 03:27 AM
No don't say that because you can not forget what Bosh did in Game 6. If it weren't for him, there would not have been a game 7.

Still saying that. What Bosh did in game 6 is something he was expected to do when he came in. I'm not going to give Bosh a freebie because he made one great key play. When you're listed as a big three, you should be putting up better numbers than 0 points, 8 rebounds.

tredigs
06-21-2013, 03:27 AM
No don't say that because you can not forget what Bosh did in Game 6. If it weren't for him, there would not have been a game 7.

He was probably the 5th or 6th best player in that game dude. Let's not be ridiculous. Timmy, Kawhi, James and Chalmers outshined him big time, not to mention Ray's heroics. He had great moments himself, but they were few and far between, and did not outweigh his struggles. I'm really disappointed in the guy, I expected a solid game 7.

bbblack40
06-21-2013, 03:28 AM
lebron is already a top 5 player of all-time, two titles,2finals mvps, multiple all nba and all defense selections,multiple all-star mvps, 4 reg. season mvps and he ranks 2nd for highest per in nba history. Wade is top 15 easily 3titles, 1finals mvp (which is a bigger accomplishment than reg.mvp) multiple all nba selection and all defense selection, all star mvp,and ranks 6th for highest per in nba history. wade is top 15 and still climbing. The top 6 players in per(player effeciency rating) jordan, lebron,shaq,david robinson,wilt, and wade. people claiming pippen, drexler, ewing, barkley, stockton, etc are crazy. I get it you dont like wade or the heat but you cant deny greatness. people claim that kobe is top 10 and the closest thing to jordan, if thats the case look kobe and wade stats next to each other, because wade's stats are just as good if not better than kobe's. When its all said and done wade will be very close to that top 10 list maybe 12 or 11 on the list. I honestly believe the reason wade is so underrated now a days is because lebron is playing on another level which makes wade's play look not as spectacular. think about this for a second wade had a top per this year and shot 52% 5ast. and 5rebs with 2stls and a block a game while scorin 21ppg and people said he had a bad year.lol how is that a bad year? funny thing tony parker ws considered an mvp canadiate with very similar stats and wade plays both sides of the floor unlike parker, so explain that. just because he avg.4pts less than his career avg? thats silly, use some logic people wade avg 15per game this year vs the 18-21 shots per game he avg before the big 3 formed so of course hes gonna avg. less hell even lebron is avg less ppg since joining miami. Wade will continue to be underrated but when its all said and done at the end of his career he will have the numbers, rings, and awards to be on th verge of top 10, the only way he cracks top 10 in my opinion is if he wins a reg. season mvp which i doubt he will as long as he is on the team with lebron. I rank him at#15

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:28 AM
I'll tell you one thing, Bosh is a ****ing nobody. Game 7 - 0 points? Yikes. And that's the sad truth for his legacy.

This is true. I've had Bosh's back in the past, but tonight I didn't notice him, because he essentially did nothing.

28 mins, 0-5, 0 points, 5 fouls, 2 turnovers. You can't be a 100 mill player and put those numbers out. That's a legacy hit in my opinion that can't be ignored.

Again, I backed this dude, mentioning how the Heat were not utilizing him correctly. But man, tonight was pretty bad for him

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:32 AM
lebron is already a top 5 player of all-time, two titles,2finals mvps, multiple all nba and all defense selections,multiple all-star mvps, 4 reg. season mvps and he ranks 2nd for highest per in nba history. Wade is top 15 easily 3titles, 1finals mvp (which is a bigger accomplishment than reg.mvp) multiple all nba selection and all defense selection, all star mvp,and ranks 6th for highest per in nba history. wade is top 15 and still climbing. The top 6 players in per(player effeciency rating) jordan, lebron,shaq,david robinson,wilt, and wade. people claiming pippen, drexler, ewing, barkley, stockton, etc are crazy. I get it you dont like wade or the heat but you cant deny greatness. people claim that kobe is top 10 and the closest thing to jordan, if thats the case look kobe and wade stats next to each other, because wade's stats are just as good if not better than kobe's. When its all said and done wade will be very close to that top 10 list maybe 12 or 11 on the list. I honestly believe the reason wade is so underrated now a days is because lebron is playing on another level which makes wade's play look not as spectacular. think about this for a second wade had a top per this year and shot 52% 5ast. and 5rebs with 2stls and a block a game while scorin 21ppg and people said he had a bad year.lol how is that a bad year? funny thing tony parker ws considered an mvp canadiate with very similar stats and wade plays both sides of the floor unlike parker, so explain that. just because he avg.4pts less than his career avg? thats silly, use some logic people wade avg 15per game this year vs the 18-21 shots per game he avg before the big 3 formed so of course hes gonna avg. less hell even lebron is avg less ppg since joining miami. Wade will continue to be underrated but when its all said and done at the end of his career he will have the numbers, rings, and awards to be on th verge of top 10, the only way he cracks top 10 in my opinion is if he wins a reg. season mvp which i doubt he will as long as he is on the team with lebron. I rank him at#15


I think he's top 10. No chance at Top 5 yet. I think people need to take a breath and wait a while before they start messing with that Top 5. That's the Everest of basketball some people are trying to mess with prematurely

tredigs
06-21-2013, 03:35 AM
This is true. I've had Bosh's back in the past, but tonight I didn't notice him, because he essentially did nothing.

28 mins, 0-5, 0 points, 5 fouls, 2 turnovers. You can't be a 100 mill player and put those numbers out. That's a legacy hit in my opinion that can't be ignored.

I know man, the worst part is that he did not instill himself in other facets of the game. He's lucky he has the teammates he does, and I prop up Wade + Lebron that much more for winning despite his struggles.

This is a case where winning a championship should earn you exactly ZERO bonuses or admiration in an All-Time discussion.

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:39 AM
I know man, the worst part is that he did not instill himself in other facets of the game. He's lucky he has the teammates he does, and I prop up Wade + Lebron that much more for winning despite his struggles.


Wade was huge. Imagine if the Heat lost and Bosh had those numbers? My goodness he'd get destroyed.

Unfortunately this will be one of those things that gets overlooked because they won.

Luckiest person in the world today is Chris Bosh

bbblack40
06-21-2013, 03:39 AM
who is your top 5, if u dont mind me asking? do you agree or disagree with my dwade top 15 assessment?

tredigs
06-21-2013, 03:40 AM
Wade was huge. Imagine if the Heat lost and Bosh had those numbers? My goodness he'd get destroyed.

Team game man. Team game. It's redundant yet that simple and so few care to hear it.

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:42 AM
who is your top 5, if u dont mind me asking? do you agree or disagree with my dwade top 15 assessment?

Personally I have Wade right now between 20-25.

Top 5-6 for me is: Jordan, Magic, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird.

To me I got LBJ at 10 right now. We're also underestimating Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem.

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:44 AM
Team game man. Team game. It's redundant yet that simple and so few care to hear it.

Absolutely man. This will get lost in history.

Poem33
06-21-2013, 03:44 AM
Wade was huge. Imagine if the Heat lost and Bosh had those numbers? My goodness he'd get destroyed.

Unfortunately this will be one of those things that gets overlooked because they won.

Luckiest person in the world today is Chris Bosh

Hey, I have to say that the luckiest person would have to be LeBron James. Chris Bosh would've been scrutinized by the media if his name was LeBron James. But, if LeBron James doesn't win, he would be criticized like 2011 all over again. To add to this, I tried to at least give Bosh props for his performance but could not think of one play in which Bosh had an impact. He basically played the guy who was just a scapegoat on Tim Duncan.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:47 AM
who is your top 5, if u dont mind me asking? do you agree or disagree with my dwade top 15 assessment?

Kareem
Jordan
Russell
Magic
Wilt

In no order. As for Wade, he's somewhere between 15 and 20. He might end up around 12 to 14 if he wins some more rings and puts up solid numbers.

Longhornfan1234
06-21-2013, 03:48 AM
Hahahaha out on Drexler over Wade.

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:49 AM
Hey, I have to say that the luckiest person would have to be LeBron James. Chris Bosh would've been scrutinized by the media if his name was LeBron James. But, if LeBron James doesn't win, he would be criticized like 2011 all over again. To add to this, I tried to at least give Bosh props for his performance but could not think of one play in which Bosh had an impact. He basically played the guy who was just a scapegoat on Tim Duncan.

Very true, LBJ wouldn't got smashed, and it wouldn't be fair to say the least.

Poem33
06-21-2013, 03:49 AM
Kareem
Jordan
Russell
Magic
Wilt

In no order. As for Wade, he's somewhere between 15 and 20. He might end up around 12 to 14 if he wins some more rings and puts up solid numbers.

hey man, that is a terrible top 5 list. Russell shouldn't be there because a top 5 player should be great offensively AND defensively. also, wade will not end up any lower than top 15. he is my top 15-20 but you have to realize that wade is piggybacking lebron james. Wade is not going to get any better and those solid numbers are only going to hurt his career. anything Wade wins from now on will be of lebron james doing. I do not think it will be fair to anyone that wade can bump his place up when he will not be the biggest factor of the team.

shep33
06-21-2013, 03:51 AM
If Bron keeps it up, he's the only guy I can see being in that top 5 and challenging Jordan. Still a long way to go on MJ though, heck still a long way to go on a lot of those guys. But he's still pretty young

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:52 AM
hey man, that is a terrible top 5 list. Russell shouldn't be there because a top 5 player should be great offensively AND defensively. also, wade will not end up any lower than top 15. he is my top 15-20 but you have to realize that wade is piggybacking lebron james. Wade is not going to get any better and those solid numbers are only going to hurt his career. anything Wade wins from now on will be of lebron james doing. I do not think it will be fair to anyone that wade can bump his place up when he will not be the biggest factor of the team.
Wade needs to go to Germany and get the Kobe treatment. A healthy Wade IMO is still TOP 5 player in the league

bbblack40
06-21-2013, 03:52 AM
jordan for sure 6 titles 6 finals mvps and 5 reg. mvp etc>lebron
kareem for sure>lebron
magic career resume>lebron
Wilt stats>lebron's
Lebron stats>than bird's hands down, only difference is bird has three titles. and if gonna say bird is better because he has more titles then you think bird is better than wilt right? i guess only time will tell.
hard for me to name 20 players ahead of wade on the alltime great considering his numbers, rings, and the fact he is currently the 3rd best sg of all time, but like i said only time will tell when they are both near the ends of their career.

Longhornfan1234
06-21-2013, 03:54 AM
jordan for sure 6 titles 6 finals mvps and 5 reg. mvp etc>lebron
kareem for sure>lebron
magic career resume>lebron
Wilt stats>lebron's
Lebron stats>than bird's hands down, only difference is bird has three titles. and if gonna say bird is better because he has more titles then you think bird is better than wilt right? i guess only time will tell.
hard for me to name 20 players ahead of wade on the alltime great considering his numbers, rings, and the fact he is currently the 3rd best sg of all time, but like i said only time will tell when they are both near the ends of their career.

Wade doesn't have a case over West.

Poem33
06-21-2013, 03:55 AM
If Bron keeps it up, he's the only guy I can see being in that top 5 and challenging Jordan. Still a long way to go on MJ though, heck still a long way to go on a lot of those guys. But he's still pretty young

i am very curious as to what you think would be enough. Ive watched Jordan for a long time and think he's anonymously the G.O.A.T. however i will not leave the option off for lebron. he has the greatest opportunity out of the current nba roster and I personally would like your perspective on what lebron needs to achieve. 6 rings, mvps, dunk contest?

Poem33
06-21-2013, 03:57 AM
Wade doesn't have a case over West.

anyone you ask will say Wade is the third best shooting guard and many will usually counter with drexler being the next candidate. jerry west played in a watered down era and he didn't win enough. i'm not going to include his finals MVP.. that was a joke!

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 04:01 AM
Wade doesn't have a case over West.

Wade is at least as good as the logo. West only has 1 ring

bbblack40
06-21-2013, 04:01 AM
the numbers put up this year were great numbers, not solid numbers but great. and piggybacking???? piggy backing is kenny smith on the rockets with hakeem. no one said kareem was piggybacking off of magic or vice versa. no one said kobe was piggy backing off of shaq. no they werenot the number one guybut they were big factors of them winning. Wade has won one as the number one guy(couldve easily been 2 if lebron showed up in 2011 vs dallas) two as the number 2 guy. wade will continue to rise as they keep winning but he will never crack the top 10 unless he gets a reg. mvp which is unlikely if he continues to play with lbj.

Poem33
06-21-2013, 04:09 AM
the numbers put up this year were great numbers, not solid numbers but great. and piggybacking???? piggy backing is kenny smith on the rockets with hakeem. no one said kareem was piggybacking off of magic or vice versa. no one said kobe was piggy backing off of shaq. no they werenot the number one guybut they were big factors of them winning. Wade has won one as the number one guy(couldve easily been 2 if lebron showed up in 2011 vs dallas) two as the number 2 guy. wade will continue to rise as they keep winning but he will never crack the top 10 unless he gets a reg. mvp which is unlikely if he continues to play with lbj.

Yes but I think piggyback is the right word because WADE is no longer going to be better. his stats will drop and drop, that means his position should stay the same regardless if he wins rings or not. also, Wade did have great numbers but that doesnt mean he was as great of a player he used to be. if you take a look at history, wade probably had the best season since 2008-2009 statistically. yet, he was much better last year and the year before that. stats dont say it all, you can tell from how wade plays that he is only going to start declining.. to put into a nother point of view, no one is going to drop a player if they have bad seasons before they retire. if you want to bump a player up because of that, then wade should be dropped off when he begins to REALLY decline.

bbblack40
06-21-2013, 04:10 AM
more titles, higher per, a real finals mvp, higher fg percentage, better defense, and through ten seasons has more points than west had. I would say he has a pretty good case. not to mention evolution.

shep33
06-21-2013, 04:15 AM
i am very curious as to what you think would be enough. Ive watched Jordan for a long time and think he's anonymously the G.O.A.T. however i will not leave the option off for lebron. he has the greatest opportunity out of the current nba roster and I personally would like your perspective on what lebron needs to achieve. 6 rings, mvps, dunk contest?

The thing is we're looking at this thing without a fully painted portrait. Take for instance Hakeem's first 11 years:

About 26 ppg, around 13 rpg, 3.5-4 blocks, and around 2 steals. 2 Titles, 2 Finals MVP's, the best defensive player of his generation as well.

Hakeem never had the help that LeBron, Kobe, Magic, Bird etc had. He probably won a title with the least help in the modern NBA. He also played in an era with more elite players at his position than did Kobe, LeBron, or even MJ played at.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 04:15 AM
Yes but I think piggyback is the right word because WADE is no longer going to be better. his stats will drop and drop, that means his position should stay the same regardless if he wins rings or not. also, Wade did have great numbers but that doesnt mean he was as great of a player he used to be. if you take a look at history, wade probably had the best season since 2008-2009 statistically. yet, he was much better last year and the year before that. stats dont say it all, you can tell from how wade plays that he is only going to start declining.. to put into a nother point of view, no one is going to drop a player if they have bad seasons before they retire. if you want to bump a player up because of that, then wade should be dropped off when he begins to REALLY decline.
Wade is still a TOP 10 regular season player. He had a 24 PER with .190 WS/48, which is slightly worse than his career numbers. He still garnered about 20 PER in postseason. those are certainly not numbers to downplay.

HuRRiCaNeS324
06-21-2013, 04:17 AM
This is true. I've had Bosh's back in the past, but tonight I didn't notice him, because he essentially did nothing.

28 mins, 0-5, 0 points, 5 fouls, 2 turnovers. You can't be a 100 mill player and put those numbers out. That's a legacy hit in my opinion that can't be ignored.

Again, I backed this dude, mentioning how the Heat were not utilizing him correctly. But man, tonight was pretty bad for him

I honestly couldn't care less about his legacy and quite frankly it isn't even worth mentioning. But the bolded part i've been saying to myself time and time again. Bosh is getting paid the same as Lebron James and the discrepancy between the two is ridiculous. I honestly hope we make him decline the player option and then resign him to another contract because it's beyond pathetic at this point.

I use defend Bosh, but he's become so unreliable that i just can't do it anymore.

bbblack40
06-21-2013, 04:19 AM
his stats are worse only his ppg game. he shot a career high this year on 3 fewer shots. people only care about points in todays nba. wade had similar numbers to parker this year and those numbers got parker a top 5 mvp finish. lbj is the best player in the league any other superstar is gonna have to take a backseat thats just how it is. if wade were back in the number one role if would be average his 25-28ppg but the fact that they all take fewer shots they all avg. fewer pts but in the are more effiecient than ever i dont call that decline. and wade more than capable of still gettin another finals mvp playing with lebron, a reg. mvp on the other hand i dont think so. wade legacy is still being written he is a superstar not robert horry or d.fisher who are role players collecting rings. he is the 2nd biggest part of their success. wade is a proven winner 3of 4 75% in the finals. jerry west was 1for10 10% in the finals

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 04:21 AM
I honestly couldn't care less about his legacy and quite frankly it isn't even worth mentioning. But the bolded part i've been saying to myself time and time again. Bosh is getting paid the same as Lebron James and the discrepancy between the two is ridiculous. I honestly hope we make him decline the player option and then resign him to another contract because it's beyond pathetic at this point.

I use defend Bosh, but he's become so unreliable that i just can't do it anymore.
To be fair he has played some very good defense for the most part. But I think he should've kept the weight he gained his last year in Toronto. He would've been a lot more force on the o glass and would've been able to drive stronger to the rim, even at the expense of some motor.

shep33
06-21-2013, 04:22 AM
I honestly couldn't care less about his legacy and quite frankly it isn't even worth mentioning. But the bolded part i've been saying to myself time and time again. Bosh is getting paid the same as Lebron James and the discrepancy between the two is ridiculous. I honestly hope we make him decline the player option and then resign him to another contract because it's beyond pathetic at this point.

I use defend Bosh, but he's become so unreliable that i just can't do it anymore.

I'm getting this sense from a lot of Heat fans lol.

The thing is would Riles actually trade him? Especially after winning a title?

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 04:25 AM
his stats are worse only his ppg game. he shot a career high this year on 3 fewer shots. people only care about points in todays nba. wade had similar numbers to parker this year and those numbers got parker a top 5 mvp finish. lbj is the best player in the league any other superstar is gonna have to take a backseat thats just how it is. if wade were back in the number one role if would be average his 25-28ppg but the fact that they all take fewer shots they all avg. fewer pts but in the are more effiecient than ever i dont call that decline. and wade more than capable of still gettin another finals mvp playing with lebron, a reg. mvp on the other hand i dont think so. wade legacy is still being written he is a superstar not robert horry or d.fisher who are role players collecting rings. he is the 2nd biggest part of their success. wade is a proven winner 3of 4 75% in the finals. jerry west was 1for10 10% in the finals
in the only Finals that Wade lost, he had the 8th highest Finals PER of all time.

HuRRiCaNeS324
06-21-2013, 04:25 AM
To be fair he has played some very good defense for the most part. But I think he should've kept the weight he gained his last year in Toronto. He would've been a lot more force on the o glass and would've been able to drive stronger to the rim, even at the expense of some motor.

It isn't the weight at all. In fact, i don't think the difference is that much anyways. I'm pretty sure he might weigh even more now then he did in Toronto.

What happened to Bosh is playing on the same team as Lebron and Wade. He sees the greatness of the two and then psychologically he puts himself in an inferior category, which translates to him playing unconfident basketball.

Poem33
06-21-2013, 04:30 AM
WOW! I can not believe people are defending Bosh. Yes, sure he spaces the floor. Sure he had some amazing key plays.. However, he is paid the same as James and doesn't perform close to it. His impact in this game was unseen and Miami's biggest issues were exploited because Bosh couldn't step up and perform against Duncan/Hibbert/West. We can't give players freebies because of one good play. He's paid big bucks and that's expected of a player when they are treated as big three. The luxury of Bosh is he has Wade/James to cover up his mishaps. Bosh absolutely needs to be put up for trade talks. Miami is unstoppable in the shooting guard/point guard/small forward position because James/Wade can cover all those positions. But the PF/C need a makeover if they want to continue winning. Just think, Bosh is treated as a big three but put up 0 points? C'mon, something has to give and Bosh is it.

amos1er
06-21-2013, 04:58 AM
Come on fellas. Wade is easily 20-25 range. Saying he is not top 40 is pretty bad. Here is how I have it...

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Russell
Oscar
West
Havlichek
Moses Malone
Erving
Lebron
Thomas
Robinson
Baylor
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley
Ewing
Wade
Pettit

Thats where Lebron is right now, though he'll likely rise to top ten for sure with some more longevity. Right now longevity (All NBA Teams/Career Scoring/All-Star Teams) is what is keeping him out IMO. He'll likely get those things, but for now he is not top ten. Wade is easily 20-25. I have him at 24 unless I'm forgetting anyone.

ragee
06-21-2013, 06:03 AM
Wade is DEFINITELY the 3rd best SG ever. Idk where that ranks him overall, but with SG being one of the most important positions imo, he must be really high.

SG is one of the most important position? I read somewhere before that the SG position is irrelevant unless your SG is MJ. This was a long time ago though. For me,the most important postions are the 1 and 5. I see Wade being in the top 15-25...

Shlumpledink
06-21-2013, 06:04 AM
Come on fellas. Wade is easily 20-25 range. Saying he is not top 40 is pretty bad. Here is how I have it...

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Russell
Oscar
West
Havlichek
Moses Malone
Erving
Lebron
Thomas
Robinson
Baylor
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley
Ewing
Wade
Pettit

Thats where Lebron is right now, though he'll likely rise to top ten for sure with some more longevity. Right now longevity (All NBA Teams/Career Scoring/All-Star Teams) is what is keeping him out IMO. He'll likely get those things, but for now he is not top ten. Wade is easily 20-25. I have him at 24 unless I'm forgetting anyone.

Forgot:
Stockton
Payton
Pippen
Worthy (Come on laker fan, you should be all over this one)
George Gervin
Kevin Mchale
Bill Walton
Nate Thurmond
Robert Parish
Chris Paul (Debatable, but he has had a great friggin career)
Elvin Hayes

So i have him in the 30s

Poem33
06-21-2013, 06:09 AM
Forgot:
Stockton
Payton
Pippen
Worthy (Come on laker fan, you should be all over this one)
George Gervin
Kevin Mchale
Bill Walton
Nate Thurmond
Robert Parish
Chris Paul (Debatable, but he has had a great friggin career)
Elvin Hayes

So i have him in the 30s

putting chris paul up for debate against Wade in all time already crucifies your list.. did you make this list or did you just throw names up? James worthy better than Wade? Bill walton? Wow, Dirk Nowitzki is much better than many of those fools and he's not even on my 20-25.

sammyvine
06-21-2013, 06:24 AM
wade aint top 20 all time

the last 2 chips hes been a secondary player

FraziersKnicks
06-21-2013, 06:59 AM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson
4. Bill Russell
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. LeBron James
10. Larry Bird
11. Kobe Bryant

LeBron is now the best SF of all-time, little argument to be made for Bird in my opinion. LeBron can be top 5 if the Heat three-peat and he continues his statistical dominance and he'll start to approach top 3 with any more titles after that.

Wade's probably around 20-30, in the 25-30 range more likely though.

FreshAir84
06-21-2013, 06:59 AM
all of these advanced stats mean nothing.

LBJ6
06-21-2013, 07:32 AM
Come on fellas. Wade is easily 20-25 range. Saying he is not top 40 is pretty bad. Here is how I have it...

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Russell
Oscar
West
Havlichek
Moses Malone
Erving
Lebron
Thomas
Robinson
Baylor
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley
Ewing
Wade
Pettit

Thats where Lebron is right now, though he'll likely rise to top ten for sure with some more longevity. Right now longevity (All NBA Teams/Career Scoring/All-Star Teams) is what is keeping him out IMO. He'll likely get those things, but for now he is not top ten. Wade is easily 20-25. I have him at 24 unless I'm forgetting anyone.
Oh there you are Amos, I thought you were crying somewhere... anyways Lebron is definitely top 10, wade is top 20 for sure.

sammyvine
06-21-2013, 07:38 AM
Oh there you are Amos, I thought you were crying somewhere... anyways Lebron is definitely top 10, wade is top 20 for sure.

wade is not top 20 lmao. maybe to heat fans he is but to rational fans there is no way he is a top 20 player of all time
he has never won an mvp, doesnt have many 1st all team nba, he is not better than garnett or dirk who most people think are not even top 20

naps
06-21-2013, 07:44 AM
Wade right now is at least top 5 SG of all time. Right now, I say he is number 3 after Jordan and Kobe. You can't argue with 3 rings and he majorly contributed to all of them. Wade is Top 15-20 imo.

Agreed 100%.

DanG
06-21-2013, 07:59 AM
Wade is top 20 easily and LeBron is top 10 easily.

Respect to Wade for being so unselfish since playing with LeBron. He does everything what's best for the team. I mean the dude should have 4 rings and 2 FMVPs if LeBron didn't choke against Dallas.


and LeBron made unbelievable shots last night. IMO he is EASILY the best player in the game and no one even comes close.

naps
06-21-2013, 08:03 AM
I'm getting this sense from a lot of Heat fans lol.

The thing is would Riles actually trade him? Especially after winning a title?

I wanted Bosh gone win or lose. I said it even before the finals series started. I stand by my statement. I am just disgusted by his lack of effort when it comes to rebounding. He was only good for his jump shot and it seems he was missing so many wide open of those as well. However, he played great in game 6, specially defensively. And I think he did a pretty good job on Duncan in game 7. But I highly doubt Riley will trade him.



Wade is top 20 easily and LeBron is top 10 easily.

Respect to Wade for being so unselfish since playing with LeBron. He does everything what's best for the team. I mean the dude should have 4 rings and 2 FMVPs if LeBron didn't choke against Dallas.


and LeBron made unbelievable shots last night. IMO he is EASILY the best player in the game and no one even comes close.

These people who are saying he's top 30 or top 40 or those who are saying he's not top 20 don't realize this. Not his fault that LeBron choked.



Come on fellas. Wade is easily 20-25 range. Saying he is not top 40 is pretty bad. Here is how I have it...

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Russell
Oscar
West
Havlichek
Moses Malone
Erving
Lebron
Thomas
Robinson
Baylor
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley
Ewing
Wade
Pettit

Thats where Lebron is right now, though he'll likely rise to top ten for sure with some more longevity. Right now longevity (All NBA Teams/Career Scoring/All-Star Teams) is what is keeping him out IMO. He'll likely get those things, but for now he is not top ten. Wade is easily 20-25. I have him at 24 unless I'm forgetting anyone.

Oh lord what's wrong with this guy!?! Seriously, I've never seen anyone so blatantly hate on an athlete who hasn't done any harm to him. LeBron is absolutely top 10. It doesn't take anything away from your boy Kobe. Stop being so insecure jeez!!

BklynKnicks3
06-21-2013, 09:56 AM
I have to agree Lebron top 10 wade top 20. Lebron has not chance of passing mj thoe with all his stains. If he won with out wade id put him top 5

BklynKnicks3
06-21-2013, 09:58 AM
1. Mj
2. Kobe
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Kareem
7. Russell
8. shaq
9. duncan
10. Lebron
11. Hakeem

mjm07
06-21-2013, 10:06 AM
1. Mj
2. Kobe
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Kareem
7. Russell
8. shaq
9. duncan
10. Lebron
11. Hakeem


150. Melo


Keep hatin' mofo!!!!

Chronz
06-21-2013, 10:36 AM
Wade is into my Top-25, Bron has moved into the top-10 ahead of Moses. The rest is about longevity IMO. 2 chips with 2 Finals MVP is good enough to prove himself as a team leader, this is where I value production+longevity abit more.

RLundi
06-21-2013, 10:41 AM
I think LBJ is just short of the top 10 while Wade is probably top 30.

RLundi
06-21-2013, 10:42 AM
Keep hatin' mofo!!!!

:laugh2:

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 10:56 AM
I think LBJ is just short of the top 10 while Wade is probably top 30.

You guys are just throwing numbers out there. Name 30 players better than Wade.

Kingz4L
06-21-2013, 11:00 AM
I agree with this top 10 list. Hard to argue the facts. If Lebron gets 1 more ring i replace him with Shaq.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#tab=photo-title=Best+of+the+best&photo=30219323

beasted86
06-21-2013, 11:26 AM
Title is total truth.

I don't know how a guy with 4 MVPs and 2 championships could not be a top 10 player.

Same as I don't see how a guy with 3 championships, and a career average over 24 PPG could not be top 20.

Can somebody can name a player with those accolades that isn't top 10 and top 20 respectively?

2-ONE-5
06-21-2013, 11:46 AM
Wadie not even really close to being top 20 get out of here

tredigs
06-21-2013, 11:48 AM
Title is total truth.

I don't know how a guy with 4 MVPs and 2 championships could not be a top 10 player.

Same as I don't see how a guy with 3 championships, and a career average over 24 PPG could not be top 20.

Can somebody can name a player with those accolades that isn't top 10 and top 20 respectively?

2 of those ships were as a clear #2 alongside a top 10 talent of all time in his prime. Wade is around Pierce for me in an All Time discussion, somewhere in the 25-35 range. His PPG will steadily decrease as the years progress, so it's not fair to compare that to those who have already retired and had their twilight years factored into their averages.

For what it's worth, D Wade is 73rd in career Win Shares (one very decent measure of longevity + dominance for an All Time rank). Pierce 27th (just behind Kidd and ahead of Clyde), and Bron 20th (just behind Magic).

teddygreen17
06-21-2013, 11:48 AM
Malone (Karl)
Barkley
Stockton
Robinson
Zeke
Ewing
Drexler
Dirk

Hell no to the bolded. If you combine stats and rings, Wade is better. Plain and simple.


You can't possible be serious. Wade is not (ALL -TIME) better than Stockton (leader in Assist and Steals), not better than top 3 PF all top (Malone) or Barkley, come'on Isaiah Thomas? I'll give you a pass on Dirk and Drexler and maybe Ewing.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:10 PM
2 of those ships were as a clear #2 alongside a top 10 talent of all time in his prime. Wade is around Pierce for me in an All Time discussion, somewhere in the 25-35 range. His PPG will steadily decrease as the years progress, so it's not fair to compare that to those who have already retired and had their twilight years factored into their averages.

For what it's worth, D Wade is 73rd in career Win Shares (one very decent measure of longevity + dominance for an All Time rank). Pierce 27th (just behind Kidd and ahead of Clyde), and Bron 20th (just behind Magic).
Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings | 1 FMVP | 2 historic Finals performances
Pierce: 15 seasons | 20.6 PER | .165 WS/48 | 1 ring | 1 FMVP

Please don't ever compare Pierce to Wade. That is an insult to Wade.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 12:17 PM
Malone (Karl)
You can't possible be serious. Wade is not (ALL -TIME) better than Stockton (leader in Assist and Steals), not better than top 3 PF all top (Malone) or Barkley, come'on Isaiah Thomas? I'll give you a pass on Dirk and Drexler and maybe Ewing.
Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings | 2 historic Finals performances

Stockton: 19 seasons | 21.8 PER | .209 WS/48 | 0 rings
Malone: 19 seasons | 23.9 PER | .205 WS/48 | 0 rings
Barkley: 16 seasons | 24.6 PER | .216 WS/48 | 0 rings
Isiah Thomas: 13 seasons | 18.1 PER | .109 WS/48 | 2 rings

Isiah Thomas is definitely not better than Wade. Wade is there there with the other guys statistically, but won 3 rings. The others won 0. Wade led his team in '06. Malone, Barkley and Stockton have never done that.

Chronz
06-21-2013, 12:27 PM
I agree with this top 10 list. Hard to argue the facts. If Lebron gets 1 more ring i replace him with Shaq.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#tab=photo-title=Best+of+the+best&photo=30219323

What facts did they argue?

Stinkyoutsider
06-21-2013, 12:27 PM
The Heat got another one last night. I wouldn't make too many changes if I'm Pat Riley. Keep the squad together until they fall short on winning a title...

The combination of Lebron and Wade still dominating the NBA. The only issue with this is that Wade seems to be injured multiple times every season. He makes too much money to bring off the bench but this has to be in the back of Pat Riley's mind.

Chronz
06-21-2013, 12:29 PM
Same as I don't see how a guy with 3 championships, and a career average over 24 PPG could not be top 20.

Thoughts on Dr. J vs Wade?

tredigs
06-21-2013, 01:36 PM
Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings | 1 FMVP | 2 historic Finals performances
Pierce: 15 seasons | 20.6 PER | .165 WS/48 | 1 ring | 1 FMVP

Please don't ever compare Pierce to Wade. That is an insult to Wade.

A career 22/6/4 on 45/37/81 is the same league as a career 25/5/6 on 49/29/77. Pierce out-dueled Kobe for his ship, and as Wade ages those PER+WS/48 numbers will likely slip. Wade definitely has the edge, but it's far from insult to have him in the same tier as a 10 time All Star/FMVP who's top 30 all time in Win Shares.

Thoughts on Dr. J vs Wade?

Obviously Dr.

Max.This
06-21-2013, 01:53 PM
What's wrong with some of you. You guys would bow down to players. No dignity and pride whatsoever. I love basketball but these ppl make their money because we as fans buy merchandise , go to games and support them. Without us players wouldn't exist because the business would be shot, so have some balls and stand up straight. God some of you are such tools

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 02:26 PM
A career 22/6/4 on 45/37/81 is the same league as a career 25/5/6 on 49/29/77. Pierce out-dueled Kobe for his ship, and as Wade ages those PER+WS/48 numbers will likely slip. Wade definitely has the edge, but it's far from insult to have him in the same tier as a 10 time All Star/FMVP who's top 30 all time in Win Shares.

It is not close at all. Wade in his prime was on another level. Perennial TOP 5 player. His 2008-09 season and 2005-06 season especially trumps anything Pierce has ever done. Not to mention the fact he was also a well above average defense. Pierce wasn't nearly as good as Wade on that side of the game neither. Pierce, however, was a fringe TOP 10 player at his absolute peak. So, yeah, it is truly an insult to compare Pierce to Wade. Wade is much closer to guys like Kobe and West than to Pierce.


Obviously Dr.
You make it sound as if Dr. J was on another level. I'll give Dr. J the nod, but it's closer than you're implying. When Wade is done with his career he'll likely end up 12-15 range where Dr. J is, but for now, Wade is between 15-20. The stats are close actually:

Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings | 2 historic Finals performances
Dr. J: 16 seasons | 23.6 PER | .192 WS/48 | 3 rings

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 02:29 PM
Cane you don't seem to understand how this works. Wade is likely to play at least 6-7 more seasons in which his career averages will decline sharply. If you just take the first 10 years of ANY top 50 player their numbers will be far superior to longer tenured guys.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 02:32 PM
Cane you don't seem to understand how this works. Wade is likely to play at least 6-7 more seasons in which his career averages will decline sharply. If you just take the first 10 years of ANY top 50 player their numbers will be far superior to longer tenured guys.

Wade's career numbers will decline, but not as sharply as you guys are implying. Wade right now:

10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings

I expect his final career numbers to look something like this:

15 seasons | 24.3 PER | .190 WS/48 | 5 rings

which is TOP 15 worthy.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 02:34 PM
Bro I'm sorry but Wade is ALREADY declining pretty rapidly and his body has never been reliable. He went from what a 25 ppg player last year to 21 this year? His decline may be overstated at times but it absolutely is happening. He's the most injury prone player in the league. If you think his last 5-7 seasons are going to be smooth, you're in denial.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 02:38 PM
Bro I'm sorry but Wade is ALREADY declining pretty rapidly and his body has never been reliable. He went from what a 25 ppg player last year to 21 this year? His decline may be overstated at times but it absolutely is happening. He's the most injury prone player in the league. If you think his last 5-7 seasons are going to be smooth, you're in denial.

Alot of it has to do with deferring to the best player on the planet. Don't you think? As Van Gundy said (which I agree), Wade had to sacrifice his game the most of the BIG 3, so it'll look as if Wade is declining rapidly. Injuries have also slowed him down somewhat, but alot of it also has to do with him willingly deferring to LeBron (which is the right decision), taking a hit on his statistics.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 02:40 PM
Let's not forget Wade had a 24 PER on .190 WS/48 this season. He doesn't look totally inept out there as y'all are implying.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 02:51 PM
Let's not forget Wade had a 24 PER on .190 WS/48 this season. He doesn't look totally inept out there as y'all are implying.

Nobody called him inept. He's still a perennial star and great player. He's just declining is all. Do you also give Blake Griffin and other players who are legit stars but defer for better of the team.. the benefit of the doubt? Can't expect people to give Wade that benefit and not others around here. Myself... I DO understand how this works.

Green_Monster
06-21-2013, 03:00 PM
It is not close at all. Wade in his prime was on another level. Perennial TOP 5 player. His 2008-09 season and 2005-06 season especially trumps anything Pierce has ever done. Not to mention the fact he was also a well above average defense. Pierce wasn't nearly as good as Wade on that side of the game neither. Pierce, however, was a fringe TOP 10 player at his absolute peak. So, yeah, it is truly an insult to compare Pierce to Wade. Wade is much closer to guys like Kobe and West than to Pierce.

You make it sound as if Dr. J was on another level. I'll give Dr. J the nod, but it's closer than you're implying. When Wade is done with his career he'll likely end up 12-15 range where Dr. J is, but for now, Wade is between 15-20. The stats are close actually:

Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings | 2 historic Finals performances
Dr. J: 16 seasons | 23.6 PER | .192 WS/48 | 3 rings

You don't get it. Try comparing them both through their first 10 seasons.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=ervinju01&y1=1981&p2=wadedw01&y2=2013


Cane you don't seem to understand how this works. Wade is likely to play at least 6-7 more seasons in which his career averages will decline sharply. If you just take the first 10 years of ANY top 50 player their numbers will be far superior to longer tenured guys.

Exactly.

ModernDaySavage
06-21-2013, 03:04 PM
Wade top 20 is pretty fair IMO. These people saying hes barely top 50 are ****in drunk, probably drinking the pain away from the Miami win.

It's also pretty funny how so many more people are starting to discredit rings and actually see it's a team accomplishment for comparing players. Realizing before it was easy to use that when LeBron had 0. Now they are seeing he might actually get 4 or 5, maybe even more. So they want to start switching their arguments now. Cracks me up.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:06 PM
Nobody called him inept. He's still a perennial star and great player. He's just declining is all. Do you also give Blake Griffin and other players who are legit stars but defer for better of the team.. the benefit of the doubt? Can't expect people to give Wade that benefit and not others around here. Myself... I DO understand how this works.
Blake Griffin and others do not have the ability to take over a game like Wade does. Alot of times, Wade gets out of rhythm b/c he has to defer to LeBron. Thats why Wade was always great 1st half, but underperforms 2nd half alot this season. Wade would do his thing in the 1st half, then Miami would shy away from him, and try to get LeBron in rhythm in the 2nd half og games. Ask Heat fans if you don't believe me. Blake Griffin doesn't scare opposing defenses like Wade does. A healthy Wade is still TOP 5. He needs to go through some advanced treatment with his body and go to Germany, like Kobe. Kobe has more longevity and has been beat up his whole career and is still effective. Wade can be the same way if he could get the proper treatment.

ewing
06-21-2013, 03:09 PM
Top Goat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b45dOzBN8k

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:11 PM
You don't get it. Try comparing them both through their first 10 seasons.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=ervinju01&y1=1981&p2=wadedw01&y2=2013


Efficiency-wise, they were still very close:

Wade: 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings
Erving: 24.7 PER | .205 WS/48 | 3 rings

Very similar, even through 10 seasons. And, you have some people saying how Wade isn't TOP 20 yet Dr. J is TOP 15?

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 03:18 PM
Dr J was a better player than Wade and has accomplished more due to playing longer so yes... as of right now Dr J is better and with Wade's body breaking down so fast I doubt he even surpasses him at ANY point. BTW you missed the point on the Blake Griffin comment. It wasn't a direct comparison. It was me saying... unless you give ALL players the same benefit of the doubt for playing with either better teammates or loaded teams.. it's you cherry picking to protect your player.

In fact Wade is still attempting the same number of shots as his career average. Two seasons ago he actually had a career high in shot attempts on a per minute basis and his usage with Lebron isn't any lower than his career average really. Meaning he still shoots as much and uses as many possessions so any decline of stats is a decline of his game, not because he has Lebron. He put up 25.5 ppg with Lebron putting up the same ppg as now 3 years ago. So in other words... Wade's scoring isn't affected by Lebron's scoring.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:40 PM
Dr J was a better player than Wade and has accomplished more due to playing longer so yes... as of right now Dr J is better and with Wade's body breaking down so fast I doubt he even surpasses him at ANY point. BTW you missed the point on the Blake Griffin comment. It wasn't a direct comparison. It was me saying... unless you give ALL players the same benefit of the doubt for playing with either better teammates or loaded teams.. it's you cherry picking to protect your player.

No one is disputing Dr. J > Wade now, rather it's closer than people are implying. B/C of this, I don't think the all time rankings between both should be that far apart. If Erving is ranked TOP 15, then it's only logical to have Wade in the TOP 20. Wade is virtually there with Dr. J in terms of stats + rings. The only difference between the 2 is that Dr. J has 6 more seasons on Wade.

As for the Blake Griffin comment. Any sidekick that can win a chip to me gets benefit of the doubt. Kobe has only 2 rings as the main guy, but people still have him in the the TOP 10 b/c he won 3 more chips as a sidekicks, deferring to perhaps the most dominant force in NBA history. It didn't hurt Kobe's legacy at all. Another one is Pippen. People still rank him in the TOP 30 even though he never won a chip as the main guy. Furthermore, he wasn't as talented of a sidekick as Wade or Kobe




In fact Wade is still attempting the same number of shots as his career average. Two seasons ago he actually had a career high in shot attempts on a per minute basis and his usage with Lebron isn't any lower than his career average really. Meaning he still shoots as much and uses as many possessions so any decline of stats is a decline of his game, not because he has Lebron. He put up 25.5 ppg with Lebron putting up the same ppg as now 3 years ago. So in other words... Wade's scoring isn't affected by Lebron's scoring.
Wade doesn't get the ball in his hands now nearly as much as he did the first season the BIG 3 formed. Alot has to do with his reduced minutes, and him openly deferring to LeBron sometime last season. In the first season together, they used to share the ball almost 50/50. Now, its like 65/35 LeBron. They're sometimes when Wade doesn't see the ball in the second half, even after a hot first half. You have to watch the games to see where I'm coming from.

Poem33
06-21-2013, 03:45 PM
with all due respect, if Wade retired now, he is easily top 20-30, anywhere in that area is respectable. i have him 20-25 because i respect great players. anything else Wade does from now on will not HURT his career. he can only move up the ranks with more rings but to say he's not top 20-25? since when does the 3rd best sg not rank 20-25? Im pretty sure many of you had jerry west and Wade is better than Jerry west, don't even argue. Jerry west played against scrubs, a shooting guard of wade's athleticism would absolutely destroy that era. think about it, only kobe and jordan are better sg's than wade.. if it weren't for kobe/jordan, we would be saying wade is the best SG. that's not a bad feat and you guys are just underrating wade. wade in 2008-2009 was one of the greatest seasons for a shooting guard.

Sly Guy
06-21-2013, 03:49 PM
LeBron James is officially a top 10 player of all time

he's getting there if he's not already there. Still regard him as a giant douche, but he's a helluva player.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:53 PM
double post

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 03:54 PM
MY TOP 20 (in no order)

PG
Magic
Oscar

SG
Kobe
Wade
Jordan
West

SF
LeBron
Bird
Dr. J

PF
Duncan
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley

C
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Moses
Robinson

Bruno
06-21-2013, 03:57 PM
I think LBJ may have just joined the Moses/Robertson/West grouping right outside of the top ten. with an argument past all of them.

Wade is and has been a top five SG. He has a fine argument for #3.

flgatorsandjags
06-21-2013, 06:07 PM
MY TOP 20 (in no order)

PG
Magic
Oscar

SG
Kobe
Wade
Jordan
West

SF
LeBron
Bird
Dr. J

PF
Duncan
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley

C
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Moses
Robinson

Scottie Pippen and Patrick Ewing are a few players you good argue to be in that list but that looks about right

alexander_37
06-21-2013, 06:37 PM
Wade top 20? No. No. Nononono

Lebron is borderline. Will be easy in another year or 2.

amos1er
06-21-2013, 07:22 PM
Oh lord what's wrong with this guy!?! Seriously, I've never seen anyone so blatantly hate on an athlete who hasn't done any harm to him. LeBron is absolutely top 10. It doesn't take anything away from your boy Kobe. Stop being so insecure jeez!!

So just because I don't agree with you means I automatically have a vendetta against Lebron. I could easily argue that you have a man crush on Lebron and that is why you overrate him so much.

amos1er
06-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Oh there you are Amos, I thought you were crying somewhere... anyways Lebron is definitely top 10, wade is top 20 for sure.

Great argument.

amos1er
06-21-2013, 07:27 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson
4. Bill Russell
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. LeBron James
10. Larry Bird
11. Kobe Bryant

LeBron is now the best SF of all-time, little argument to be made for Bird in my opinion. LeBron can be top 5 if the Heat three-peat and he continues his statistical dominance and he'll start to approach top 3 with any more titles after that.

Wade's probably around 20-30, in the 25-30 range more likely though.

This is the worst list I have seen in a long time. Lebron ahead of Kobe and Bird already??? LMAO!

Even the biggest Kobe critics on this site still don't have the balls to rank Lebron ahead of Kobe quite yet. And as for Bird...Hahahahahahaha.

Russell at 4 is also a complete joke and a total contradiction of your undervaluing Kobe. For you to have Russell at 4 means you must value rings...therefore to have Lebron over Kobe just doesn't make any sense according to your own standards.

amos1er
06-21-2013, 07:29 PM
Forgot:
Stockton
Payton
Pippen
Worthy (Come on laker fan, you should be all over this one)
George Gervin
Kevin Mchale
Bill Walton
Nate Thurmond
Robert Parish
Chris Paul (Debatable, but he has had a great friggin career)
Elvin Hayes

So i have him in the 30s

Wade is better than all you have mentioned. Of all the players you mentioned, Stockton and Pippen were the two best and still they don't have a legit argument for being better than Wade all time.

Chronz
06-21-2013, 07:41 PM
Obviously Dr.
Is its strictly longevity? Would remaining an All-Star player for the next 5 years (win or lose, lets say lose) be enough to catapult him or does he need to win?

What would help Wade more

Another 2 chips in the fashion he just won

Another 1 chip with 11-12 caliber of play.

Tony_Starks
06-21-2013, 07:57 PM
If Wade were to retire today a legit argument could be made that's he's top 20. His legacy is pretty much set.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 08:24 PM
Wade top 20? No. No. Nononono

Lebron is borderline. Will be easy in another year or 2.

Tell me who that ISN'T on the following list:

PG
Magic
Oscar

SG
Kobe
Jordan
West

SF
LeBron
Bird
Dr. J

PF
Duncan
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley

C
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Moses
Robinson

you would put above Wade.

tredigs
06-21-2013, 09:13 PM
Tell me who that ISN'T on the following list:

PG
Magic
Oscar

SG
Kobe
Jordan
West

SF
LeBron
Bird
Dr. J

PF
Duncan
Garnett
Karl Malone
Barkley

C
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Moses
Robinson

you would put above Wade.

Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Hondo, and Rick Barry for sure. I have Wade with the group of George Gervin, Stockton, McHale, Dirk, etc.

Ebbs
06-21-2013, 09:19 PM
Hell no to the bolded. If you combine stats and rings, Wade is better. Plain and simple.

Dirk is better than Wade all time for sure

Ebbs
06-21-2013, 09:20 PM
Wade for me is in the 25-30 range.

LeBron makes my top 8

tredigs
06-21-2013, 09:23 PM
Wade for me is in the 25-30 range.

LeBron makes my top 8

Top 8? Who's your top 8?

Ebbs
06-21-2013, 09:27 PM
Top 8? Who's your top 8?

Jordan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Wilt, Hakeem, Kareem, LeBron, Duncan, Kobe is my top 10 in some order.

I'd be tempted to throw LeBron over Kobe, Duncan, Magic, and Bird.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 09:30 PM
Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Hondo, and Rick Barry for sure. I have Wade with the group of George Gervin, Stockton, McHale, Dirk, etc.
Dwyane Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings | 2 historic Finals performances

Bob Pettit: 11 seasons | 25.3 PER | .213 WS/48 | 1 ring
Elgin Baylor: 14 seasons | 22.7 PER | .148 WS/48 | 1 ring
John Havlicek: 16 seasons | 17.5 PER | .136 WS/PER | 8 rings
Rick Barry: 15 seasons | 21.0 PER | .162 WS/48 | 1 ring

No way, except for Bob Pettit, who is close, but Wade gets the nod there.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 09:32 PM
Dirk is better than Wade all time for sure

Heck no. Wade had a better prime/peak, and outperformed Dirk in both Finals. Wade has the highest and 8th highest Finals PER of all time. Not to mention he has more rings than Nowitzki. Efficiency-wise, they're similar but Wade for sure is the better defender relative to position.

tredigs
06-21-2013, 09:34 PM
I can't really see putting Lebron over guys who have more All NBA 1st Teams than he does years in the league, ESPECIALLY when he trails in rings.

Ebbs
06-21-2013, 09:36 PM
Heck no. Wade had a better prime/peak, and outperformed Dirk in both Finals. Wade has the highest and 8th highest Finals PER of all time. Not to mention he has more rings than Nowitzki. Efficiency-wise, they're similar but Wade for sure is the better defender relative to position.

Efficiency wise they are not the same. When did wade get close to 50-40-90.
How many years did wade lead the league in PER?
Wade had one great finals do did Dirk. The difference is Dirk didn't have a top 10 player all time carry him through the first 3 series.
Also Dirk has an MVP and Wade doesn't.

I struggle to see where Wade had the better Prime or career. He certainly didn't lead his team to a decade if 50 win seasons without a legitimate #2 option.

Wade is a good player don't get me wrong but the talent level if his championship teams were vastly superior to that of Dirks.

Wade also got to play in the east where if your lucky there were 2 contenders a year. Dirk played in the West where 50 wins could be a 7 or 8 seed.

Ebbs
06-21-2013, 09:38 PM
I can't really see putting Lebron over guys who have more All NBA 1st Teams than he does years in the league, ESPECIALLY when he trails in rings.

I think NBA 1st teams are a lame indicator alone. It's a good portion popularity contest. MVP IMO is far more credible.

Championships are nice dont get me wrong but I'd rather a player had a MVP than a ship.

tredigs
06-21-2013, 09:44 PM
Dwyane Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings | 2 historic Finals performances

Bob Pettit: 11 seasons | 25.3 PER | .213 WS/48 | 1 ring
Elgin Baylor: 14 seasons | 22.7 PER | .148 WS/48 | 1 ring
John Havlicek: 16 seasons | 17.5 PER | .136 WS/PER | 8 rings
Rick Barry: 15 seasons | 21.0 PER | .162 WS/48 | 1 ring

No way, except for Bob Pettit, who is close, but Wade gets the nod there.

Is this your only criteria you use for arguing players? There's too many holes to count, especially considering you're comparing averages of retired players who went through their twilight to a guy who is on the onset of decline, though I can't say I really care enough to take the time to elaborate each ones case over Wade.

But I especially love the " l 2 historic Finals performances" for Wade while not mentioning it for all others. Your agenda is glaring my eyes and it's no fun to argue with that.

ATX
06-21-2013, 09:45 PM
Efficiency wise they are not the same. When did wade get close to 50-40-90.
How many years did wade lead the league in PER?
Wade had one great finals do did Dirk. The difference is Dirk didn't have a top 10 player all time carry him through the first 3 series.
Also Dirk has an MVP and Wade doesn't.

I struggle to see where Wade had the better Prime or career. He certainly didn't lead his team to a decade if 50 win seasons without a legitimate #2 option.

Wade is a good player don't get me wrong but the talent level if his championship teams were vastly superior to that of Dirks.

Wade also got to play in the east where if your lucky there were 2 contenders a year. Dirk played in the West where 50 wins could be a 7 or 8 seed.


Wade's player Efficiency Rating

2004-05 NBA 23.1 (10)
2005-06 NBA 27.6 (4)
2006-07 NBA 28.9 (1)
2008-09 NBA 30.4 (2)
2009-10 NBA 28.0 (2)
2010-11 NBA 25.6 (3)
2011-12 NBA 26.3 (3)
2012-13 NBA 24.0 (7)
Active 25.5 (3)
Career NBA 25.5 (7)
Career 25.5 (7)

tredigs
06-21-2013, 09:47 PM
I think NBA 1st teams are a lame indicator alone. It's a good portion popularity contest. MVP IMO is far more credible.

Championships are nice dont get me wrong but I'd rather a player had a MVP than a ship.

All NBA's are part popularity, but they are also very indicative that the player was indeed dominant in that season. And in their cases they absolutely were. That makes a significant difference in All Time rankings when the guy were talking about hasn't even played the amount of seasons that other greats have dominated in.

We can assume that Lebron will continue to torch, but injury is the X factor that end or create steep decline in most of the GOATs careers, and thus far he's been incredibly fortunate there.

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 09:48 PM
Efficiency wise they are not the same. When did wade get close to 50-40-90.
How many years did wade lead the league in PER?
Wade had one great finals do did Dirk. The difference is Dirk didn't have a top 10 player all time carry him through the first 3 series.
Also Dirk has an MVP and Wade doesn't.

Wade had 2 historic Finals performances:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

Highest Finals PER of all time in 2006: 33.8 PER
8th Highest Finals PER of all time in 2011: 30.2 PER

That season when Miami lost to Dallas in 2011, Wade led the Heat in PER throughout the whole playoffs. LeBron certainly didn't carry Wade to the Finals in 2011. LeBron actually f'd up Wade's 2nd FMVP trophy. Dirk got the FMVP because he was on the winning team, but Wade was the best player easily in the Finals.

Efficiency-wise, they're close:
Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48
Dirk: 15 seasons | 23.5 PER | .209 WS/48

But Wade has had a better prime individually, and has more rings. It's that simple. Both are great playoff performers. Wade is the better Finals performer head-to-head. Wade is the better all around player and individual talent. Dirk is just a better shooter and defensive rebounder, thats it.

beasted86
06-21-2013, 09:49 PM
Dirk is better than Wade all time for sure

With statements like this you won't be taken seriously.

Ebbs
06-21-2013, 09:53 PM
With statements like this you won't be taken seriously.

Says the Heat fan?

Prove me wrong hero

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 09:59 PM
All NBA's are part popularity, but they are also very indicative that the player was indeed dominant in that season. And in their cases they absolutely were. That makes a significant difference in All Time rankings when the guy were talking about hasn't even played the amount of seasons that other greats have dominated in.

We can assume that Lebron will continue to torch, but injury is the X factor that end or create steep decline in most of the GOATs careers, and thus far he's been incredibly fortunate there.
NBA awards for the most part are not to be taken heavily into consideration when discussing all time lists. For example:

- Tim Duncan has never won a DPOY
- Nash has more season MVPs than Shaq

canefandynasty
06-21-2013, 10:04 PM
Is this your only criteria you use for arguing players? There's too many holes to count, especially considering you're comparing averages of retired players who went through their twilight to a guy who is on the onset of decline, though I can't say I really care enough to take the time to elaborate each ones case over Wade.

But I especially love the " l 2 historic Finals performances" for Wade while not mentioning it for all others. Your agenda is glaring my eyes and it's no fun to argue with that.

None of those guys had historic Finals performances like Wade. Wade has the highest and 8th highest PER in Finals. So, of course it warrants mentioning.

And even if you try to estimate Wade's decline trajectory, his projected final career numbers is still looking favorably compared to Baylor, Hondo and Barry.

A Black Prophet
06-22-2013, 05:33 AM
Wades top 35. But that's mostly for his stints before the superteam. Winning now with his team just doesn't seem like a big deal, it's expected.
What an idiot

rex.reyesiii
06-22-2013, 06:59 AM
Wade had 2 historic Finals performances:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

Highest Finals PER of all time in 2006: 33.8 PER
8th Highest Finals PER of all time in 2011: 30.2 PER

That season when Miami lost to Dallas in 2011, Wade led the Heat in PER throughout the whole playoffs. LeBron certainly didn't carry Wade to the Finals in 2011. LeBron actually f'd up Wade's 2nd FMVP trophy. Dirk got the FMVP because he was on the winning team, but Wade was the best player easily in the Finals.


Wow i didn't know the bolded...

Great discussion gentlemen.

SB75
06-22-2013, 07:56 AM
LBJ YES!

Again Wade and I like him as a player, but NO!

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 08:01 AM
LBJ YES!

Again Wade and I like him as a player, but NO!

Resume-wise, YES!

FraziersKnicks
06-22-2013, 09:05 AM
This is the worst list I have seen in a long time. Lebron ahead of Kobe and Bird already??? LMAO!

Even the biggest Kobe critics on this site still don't have the balls to rank Lebron ahead of Kobe quite yet. And as for Bird...Hahahahahahaha.

Russell at 4 is also a complete joke and a total contradiction of your undervaluing Kobe. For you to have Russell at 4 means you must value rings...therefore to have Lebron over Kobe just doesn't make any sense according to your own standards.

Of course I value rings, but I value rings won as the best player (otherwise Horry's top 5 all-time). I value Finals MVP's more than rings, and LeBron has as many as Bird and Kobe. He also has more regular season MVP's and statistically is far more dominant. His defense has been far superior to both Kobe and Bird and he can actually say he's been the best player in the league for the past 5 seasons, a length of time Kobe and Larry can't say they were.

I have no trouble saying LeBron is the best SF ever to play the game so he's gonna be above Bird. The only argument to be made for Kobe is his longevity but I don't think that's enough anymore. Don't get butt hurt because I have a different list to yours, your sig seems to agree with me anyway.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 09:19 AM
Of course I value rings, but I value rings won as the best player (otherwise Horry's top 5 all-time). I value Finals MVP's more than rings, and LeBron has as many as Bird and Kobe. He also has more regular season MVP's and statistically is far more dominant. His defense has been far superior to both Kobe and Bird and he can actually say he's been the best player in the league for the past 5 seasons, a length of time Kobe and Larry can't say they were.

I have no trouble saying LeBron is the best SF ever to play the game so he's gonna be above Bird. The only argument to be made for Kobe is his longevity but I don't think that's enough anymore. Don't get butt hurt because I have a different list to yours, your sig seems to agree with me anyway.

Robert Horry has a career 13.4 PER and .118 WS/48
No one is going to mistaken him for a true alpha player.

FraziersKnicks
06-22-2013, 09:29 AM
Robert Horry has a career 13.4 PER and .118 WS/48
No one is going to mistaken him for a true alpha player.

I was merely using it as an example.

Im_in_Mia_bish
06-22-2013, 09:35 AM
wow LeBron is only 28 and already in the top 10.. thats crazy..

as for wade, he's def top 25. :cool:

OceanSpray
06-22-2013, 10:48 AM
Again, I ask. Can someone compile a list of top 25 players with 3 rings while still a superstar? Yes, Wade is still a superstar. He's the 3rd greatest SG, ever. Dirk is easily top 30, probably the greatest international player, ever. I can see why LeBron isn't top 10 in your books, probably because most of you are just biased. Anyone with a brain knows he's top 10. We all know right now, the only thing left for James to accomplish is entering the top 5 and eventually, G.O.A.T. if that is his goal.

waveycrockett
06-22-2013, 11:02 AM
I love Wade but I dont know about top-20. I think that might be a stretch for him.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 12:25 PM
Again, I ask. Can someone compile a list of top 25 players with 3 rings while still a superstar? Yes, Wade is still a superstar. He's the 3rd greatest SG, ever. Dirk is easily top 30, probably the greatest international player, ever. I can see why LeBron isn't top 10 in your books, probably because most of you are just biased. Anyone with a brain knows he's top 10. We all know right now, the only thing left for James to accomplish is entering the top 5 and eventually, G.O.A.T. if that is his goal.
Olajuwon, and it's not even close.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 12:28 PM
I love Wade but I dont know about top-20. I think that might be a stretch for him.

Are you serious?

Name another player outside the TOP 20 with a better combination of career stats and rings. Seriously. Wade is TOP 20 easily right now with a chance to move up to TOP 13-15 when said and done.

Sactown
06-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Are you serious?

Name another player outside the TOP 20 with a better combination of career stats and rings. Seriously. Wade is TOP 20 easily right now with a chance to move up to TOP 13-15 when said and done.
Bull ****ing ****... top 15.. There are players without rings better than Wade.. Wade had a great peak.. has ****** longevity and shat the bed during the playoffs this year..

MTar786
06-22-2013, 01:01 PM
lebron is top 10 for sure. and wade is def anywhere between 18 and 25

MTar786
06-22-2013, 01:02 PM
Bull ****ing ****... top 15.. There are players without rings better than Wade.. Wade had a great peak.. has ****** longevity and shat the bed during the playoffs this year..

if wade had longevity then id say top 15.. but he doesn't.. hence my opinion of 18-25

Sactown
06-22-2013, 01:12 PM
if wade had longevity then id say top 15.. but he doesn't.. hence my opinion of 18-25

I feel comfortable saying top 30, saying top 18-25 makes me feel like I'm shafting certain individuals

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 02:15 PM
Bull ****ing ****... top 15.. There are players without rings better than Wade.. Wade had a great peak.. has ****** longevity and shat the bed during the playoffs this year..

There is not a single ringless player in NBA history I would put above Wade. thats ridiculous. If Wade was a role player like Horry it would be understandable, but Wade is an alpha player, not a role player or a scrub. His stats are up there with the true alpha talents. How can you place Wade below similar ringless players. Thats borderline trollish. Wades career efficiency stats alone is TOP 10-15 worthy. On top of that he has 3 rings, including one he led as the lead dog. Wade has had 2 historic finals performances. 2 of the TOP 10 highest PER performances in the Finals belong to Wade. The others either belong to Jordan, Duncan or Shaq. Thats some good company right there. Guys like Karl malone and David Robinson didn't step their game up in the playoffs, thats why they're ringless in their prime. and, thats what make guys like Hakeem different from them: his playoff performances. Thats why he has some rings.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 02:17 PM
I feel comfortable saying top 30, saying top 18-25 makes me feel like I'm shafting certain individuals

Like who?

PG magic, oscar
SG jordan, kobe, west
SF lebron, dr. j, larry
PF duncan, garnett, malone, barkley
C shaq, wilt, russell, kareem, moses, admiral, dream

Those are 19 players. Excluding them, name players you would place above Wade. This should be interesting.

ATX
06-22-2013, 02:29 PM
As a Wade fan, I have him (Admittedly without really looking into it exhaustively and revising my rankings after this season) at 25 on the All Time list, and Lebron 9 or 10. Wade could perhaps move a smidge higher for me when his career is over (Depending on health), but James still has a high chance to crack the top 3 GOAT list.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 02:34 PM
As a Wade fan, I have him (Admittedly without really looking into it exhaustively and revising my rankings after this season) at 25 on the All Time list, and Lebron 9 or 10. Wade could perhaps move a smidge higher for me when his career is over (Depending on health), but James still has a high chance to crack the top 3 GOAT list.

You people are just throwing numbers out there. Make an actual list, and your post would have credence.

ATX
06-22-2013, 02:42 PM
You people are just throwing numbers out there. Make an actual list, and your post would have credence.

Didn't I just admit that? I will when I have to sit down and really look at it...Either way, IMO, and as a Wade and Heat fan, I don't think he'll move more than a few spots for me personally. Wade came up big in moments where he was needed most, despite a sub par playoffs performance. He was a big part of this Championship. I really want to see how he does next year. If he can get healthy and plays at his normal high efficiency rates and wins a 3 peat along with James, then I move him into the top 20. But goodness sake, is me having him ranked at 25 ALL TIME that disturbing to you? I'm a huge fan of his, I'm just not going to throw him that high on the list yet. The Top 25 are all extremely extremely great players.

ztilzer31
06-22-2013, 02:50 PM
Olajuwon, and it's not even close.

^ THE DREAAAM
+1 for the right answer
+10 for that answer being Hakeem

I love Hakeem :).

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 02:54 PM
Didn't I just admit that? I will when I have to sit down and really look at it...Either way, IMO, and as a Wade and Heat fan, I don't think he'll move more than a few spots for me personally. Wade came up big in moments where he was needed most, despite a sub par playoffs performance. He was a big part of this Championship. I really want to see how he does next year. If he can get healthy and plays at his normal high efficiency rates and wins a 3 peat along with James, then I move him into the top 20. But goodness sake, is me having him ranked at 25 ALL TIME that disturbing to you? I'm a huge fan of his, I'm just not going to throw him that high on the list yet. The Top 25 are all extremely extremely great players.
Wade has 3 rings. Not 1, but 3. How many perennial TOP 5 players in their era with 3+ rings are placed outside of the TOP 20 all time? How many? There is absolutely no one I can think of besides maybe Mikan, and even he is on some TOP 20 lists.

tredigs
06-22-2013, 03:26 PM
It's just tough to take you seriously when you have Wade over a guy like Elgin Baylor. All NBA 1st Team for a decade straight (while being top 5 in MVP voting that entire time) as well as no worse than 8th in PER - top 2 five times. The entire decade he was also top 10 in rebounds, top 5 in scoring (leading the playoffs for multiple years consecutively) and top 10 in assists for most of the decade as well. Also had multiple years top 5 in Win Shares + top 10 in D Win Shares. The guy took a bottom feeder to the Finals as a rookie (where as usual per his and Wilt's career - they inevitably lost to the ultra stacked Celtics or Pettit's Hawks in the conference finals). Actually I think the ONLY other team he lost to in the playoffs other than Pettit's Hawks when he was younger or those Celtics was Rick Barry's Warriors.

The bottom line is that he was a MUCH more potent force in the league than Wade is to this one. Wade's rings playing alongside the players he does against a watered down current NBA due to injuries (Westbrook + Rose, specifically as those were key cogs to the two toughest competitors they were to face this year) don't bolster him over players like Baylor who went against GOAT dynasties.

I like Wade a ton as a player, er used to, but his impact on the NBA is just not on a player like Baylor's level. Though yes, his PER and WS/48 are great boss.

JC_
06-22-2013, 03:57 PM
I don't see how Wade moves up because of this ring. I know he's been hurting and is still a great player but bottomline is he had like 2 good games. IMO his rank should be whatever you had him at before this playoffs (I think most people had him at top20-25) because I don't see how he can move up because of this ring.

I'm not dissing Wade either. He's played through a lot of pain and was a total pimp in game 4.

dee279
06-22-2013, 04:24 PM
I agree

beliges
06-22-2013, 05:17 PM
lbj is bordeline at this point. he will need one more title to put himself in the clear cut top 10. Its hard to say who he replaces. if you put him ahead of duncan already then you can put him on that 10 spot. But surely he's on his way but he will need another couple to get to that other level.

bucketss
06-22-2013, 05:23 PM
lbj is bordeline at this point. he will need one more title to put himself in the clear cut top 10. Its hard to say who he replaces. if you put him ahead of duncan already then you can put him on that 10 spot. But surely he's on his way but he will need another couple to get to that other level.

jordan
magic
kareem
bill
bird
wilt
shaq
kobe
duncan
bron

replacing oscar, i think thats fair.

Nick O
06-22-2013, 07:27 PM
lol how do people hate on bosh and say (it hurts his legacy) then defend Wade? .. wades legacy should take a bigger hit! Bosh had the most clutch rebound in NBA history and the game saving block. he and allen were the heroes of game 6. besides his scoreless game 7 with his defense, rebounding and all around play he had a better and more crucial finals then Wade did. he was also more crucial to the teams overall success this year and last year than wade was.. i love how hating on bosh is still a big thing. hes done everything hes been asked to do since coming to miami . people are always saying its a big 2.. and i agree.. its lebron and bosh ... either that or its a big one. They are both Lebrons Robins.

also he has a hot wife

Nick O
06-22-2013, 07:28 PM
But lebron was already top 10

JC_
06-22-2013, 07:53 PM
lol how do people hate on bosh and say (it hurts his legacy) then defend Wade? .. wades legacy should take a bigger hit! Bosh had the most clutch rebound in NBA history and the game saving block. he and allen were the heroes of game 6. besides his scoreless game 7 with his defense, rebounding and all around play he had a better and more crucial finals then Wade did. he was also more crucial to the teams overall success this year and last year than wade was.. i love how hating on bosh is still a big thing. hes done everything hes been asked to do since coming to miami . people are always saying its a big 2.. and i agree.. its lebron and bosh ... either that or its a big one. They are both Lebrons Robins.

also he has a hot wife

I don't agree with everything you said but Bosh was definately huge in most of the finals regardless of stats. IMO game 6 will be remembered way more than game 7. His rebound was one of the biggest ever and his pass to Allen was right on the money.

Game 7 was like shootaround for Lebron and Wade which took Bosh out of the offensive game (that along with foul trouble from some lame calls). I was totally fine with his role in that game. Knowing him he could have ended up 5-10fg shooting but they didn't need that from him.

OceanSpray
06-22-2013, 07:55 PM
lol how do people hate on bosh and say (it hurts his legacy) then defend Wade? .. wades legacy should take a bigger hit! Bosh had the most clutch rebound in NBA history and the game saving block. he and allen were the heroes of game 6. besides his scoreless game 7 with his defense, rebounding and all around play he had a better and more crucial finals then Wade did. he was also more crucial to the teams overall success this year and last year than wade was.. i love how hating on bosh is still a big thing. hes done everything hes been asked to do since coming to miami . people are always saying its a big 2.. and i agree.. its lebron and bosh ... either that or its a big one. They are both Lebrons Robins.

also he has a hot wife

Because Wade come up big time and Bosh had 0 points. Wade would never score 0 points. If he had 0 points, you can best believe he will grab 10 rebounds and 10 blocks+steals. Also, Wade has a legitimate excuse. His knee is a huge problem. Bosh has no excuse. Him playing the center position isn't an excuse because he's practically doing the same thing regardless of the position he plays. I don't want to hear it about Bosh's defense. Duncan scored on him like he was a rookie. There is no way a 10 year veteran should be dominated that bad both on the offensive and defensive side of the game by someone who is 37. Big plays, sure he had that in game 6. However, if he wasn't stinking it up so bad, maybe Miami wouldn't be in that position.

Nick O
06-22-2013, 07:59 PM
Because Wade come up big time and Bosh had 0 points. Wade would never score 0 points. If he had 0 points, you can best believe he will grab 10 rebounds and 10 blocks+steals. Also, Wade has a legitimate excuse. His knee is a huge problem. Bosh has no excuse. Him playing the center position isn't an excuse because he's practically doing the same thing regardless of the position he plays. I don't want to hear it about Bosh's defense. Duncan scored on him like he was a rookie. There is no way a 10 year veteran should be dominated that bad both on the offensive and defensive side of the game by someone who is 37. Big plays, sure he had that in game 6. However, if he wasn't stinking it up so bad, maybe Miami wouldn't be in that position.

he also never got the ball.. hell he didnt all season. he shot 55% ... wade would also never get only 5 shots a game. and maybe 3 of them were good looks. it wasnt a game suited to bosh's style of play. he still once again. shut down Duncan WHEN IT MATTERED .. his defense was huge all playoffs espcecially in the finals. im all for agreeing wade is a great player i know he is. i dont think either of them should take any heat. i just find it hard to hate on a guy who saved their entire season.... twice..

OceanSpray
06-22-2013, 08:04 PM
he also never got the ball.. hell he didnt all season. he shot 55% ... wade would also never get only 5 shots a game. and maybe 3 of them were good looks. it wasnt a game suited to bosh's style of play. he still once again. shut down Duncan WHEN IT MATTERED .. his defense was huge all playoffs espcecially in the finals. im all for agreeing wade is a great player i know he is. i dont think either of them should take any heat. i just find it hard to hate on a guy who saved their entire season.... twice..

Again, why do you call it saving? If Bosh played the way he played in the regular season, Miami wouldn't be in that predicament. Miami had to be SAVED because Bosh didn't perform to the standards we all believe he can play. 0/5, put it how you want. That's still 0%. He wasn't getting the ball because Wade/James/Battier were on a roll. Had he been 3/5, he would've gotten more opportunities.

Nick O
06-22-2013, 08:08 PM
Again, why do you call it saving? If Bosh played the way he played in the regular season, Miami wouldn't be in that predicament. Miami had to be SAVED because Bosh didn't perform to the standards we all believe he can play. 0/5, put it how you want. That's still 0%. He wasn't getting the ball because Wade/James/Battier were on a roll. Had he been 3/5, he would've gotten more opportunities.

lebron and wade also didnt play up to their standards? and bosh still had 10 points.. he was very good defensively his second half and OT defense was phenominal ... so it really doesnt matter. he had a very good game .. and sure he scored 0 points but they still won ... i dont understand what some heat fans and really anyone have against the guy. hes done alot for the team ... not as much as lebron obviously. but hes been very good

OceanSpray
06-22-2013, 08:12 PM
lebron and wade also didnt play up to their standards? and bosh still had 10 points.. he was very good defensively his second half and OT defense was phenominal ... so it really doesnt matter. he had a very good game .. and sure he scored 0 points but they still won ... i dont understand what some heat fans and really anyone have against the guy. hes done alot for the team ... not as much as lebron obviously. but hes been very good

LeBron played great, he played up to standards. Tony Parker was in a slump those last two games because James was guarding him. Not to mention LeBron had to guard Green, Gino, Leonard, and whoever else was on fire. Wade didn't play up to standard but games 4/7 was 2 guaranteed wins because of Wade stepping up. Bosh is regarded as a big three and since he was injury free, he should've been performing like he was part of one. Not saying he doesn't do a lot, but if he was performing WELL, Miami wouldn't need 7 games. When he underperforms, someone has to carry that load and that meant James/Wade/co had to do that much more.

JC_
06-22-2013, 08:25 PM
Because Wade come up big time and Bosh had 0 points. Wade would never score 0 points. If he had 0 points, you can best believe he will grab 10 rebounds and 10 blocks+steals. Also, Wade has a legitimate excuse. His knee is a huge problem. Bosh has no excuse. Him playing the center position isn't an excuse because he's practically doing the same thing regardless of the position he plays. I don't want to hear it about Bosh's defense. Duncan scored on him like he was a rookie. There is no way a 10 year veteran should be dominated that bad both on the offensive and defensive side of the game by someone who is 37. Big plays, sure he had that in game 6. However, if he wasn't stinking it up so bad, maybe Miami wouldn't be in that position.

Lol So ignorant. He could have played with a bit more energy on defense against Duncan in the first half but he did a good job avoiding fouls. Look what happened when Birdman came in? What was it 2 fouls in 15 seconds? Imagine if the Spurs had been shooting foul shots all game, they would have had tons more energy going into the 2nd half. Duncan had a hall of fame first half for sure but if Lebron had played that half anywhere near the way he usually does in an elimination game, Duncan's point would have not even mattered. I think Lebron was like 2-10 or something.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 09:06 PM
Wade is already TOP 20. Here are the guys I have legitimately above Wade:

PG: Magic (4), Oscar (12)
SG: Jordan (1), Kobe (11), West (15)
SF: Bird (7), LeBron (9), Dr. J (14)
PF: Duncan (6)
C: Russell (2), Kareem (3), Wilt (5), Shaq (8), Hakeem (10), Moses (13)

Here are guys I have comparable to Wade:

David Robinson, Karl Malone, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, Charles Barkley, maybe Elgin Baylor. That's it.

Wade > Ewing, Isiah, Pippen, Drexler, Iverson, Kidd, Nash, Dirk, Frazier, Gervin, etc.

OceanSpray
06-22-2013, 09:07 PM
Lol So ignorant. He could have played with a bit more energy on defense against Duncan in the first half but he did a good job avoiding fouls. Look what happened when Birdman came in? What was it 2 fouls in 15 seconds? Imagine if the Spurs had been shooting foul shots all game, they would have had tons more energy going into the 2nd half. Duncan had a hall of fame first half for sure but if Lebron had played that half anywhere near the way he usually does in an elimination game, Duncan's point would have not even mattered. I think Lebron was like 2-10 or something.

How is that ignorant? Bosh didn't play well, thus Miami had to find a way to make up for it. I don't know about you but he gets paid the same as LeBron and didn't perform to the expectation of a big three. There's a reason he's always the first in trade talks by many when Miami loses. If he rebounds and scores, Miami are a dangerous team. WHEN. If he doesn't, you have Hibbert/Duncan destroying him.

Nick O
06-22-2013, 10:31 PM
1.MJ
2.Kareem
3.Wilt
4.Magic
5.Kobe
6.Lebron
7.shaq
8.hakeem
9.Duncan
10.Oscar
11.Dr.J
12.Jerry West\
13.Russell
14.Bird
15.Moses
16.Karl Malone
17.Bob petit
18.David Robinson
19.Barkley
20.Mikan
21.Dirk
22.Ewing
23.Baylor
24.Gervin (76-84 were ballin)
25.Drexler
26.Stockton

then Wade somwhere in 25-30 .. my oppinion obviously. and it could change. but if wade doesnt have anymore seasons like he used too hel probably end on par or a little above a pippen... a great great player. but still Batmans, Robbin

bbblack40
06-22-2013, 10:52 PM
here is my question for you why do you have jerry west ranked higher than wade? Wade is a top 3 sg of alltime. if you have kobe and mj above west why not wade i mean seriously wade,kobe, and mj all have very similar playing styles and impact on the game. wade is like early jordan always in attack mode, kobe is like later jordan fadeaways. west has one ring, he played in a time when people could barely dribble with their off hand.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 10:54 PM
1.MJ
2.Kareem
3.Wilt
4.Magic
5.Kobe
6.Lebron
7.shaq
8.hakeem
9.Duncan
10.Oscar
11.Dr.J
12.Jerry West\
13.Russell
14.Bird
15.Moses
16.Karl Malone
17.Bob petit
18.David Robinson
19.Barkley
20.Mikan
21.Dirk
22.Ewing
23.Baylor
24.Gervin (76-84 were ballin)
25.Drexler
26.Stockton


Hell no

bbblack40
06-22-2013, 11:05 PM
whats funny to me is how people put people like drexler, stockton, ewing, barkley and other superstars ahead of wade. when wade has the advantage in rings , stats, and per. people bash wade for the past two years bc he is averaging fewer points, think about this though he is shooting fewer shots and shooting a higher fg% how is that declining. 21ppg 5ast 5reb 2stl 1blk 52fg%is an amazing year, hell tony parker had similar numbers and the media was saying he was the mvp of the league before he got hurt.lol wade is not the number one option anymore kobe playing with shaq didnt hurt his legacy, kareem playing with magic didnt hurt his legacy, so why are people trying to kill wade for playing with a more dominate player. people act like wade is bj armstrong or something.what people consider as down years for wade, are still better than most. four players avg. 21+pts 5 +rebs 5+asts in the league, know who they are: Lebron james, Russell westbrook, kobe byrant, and Dwyane Wade. I guess he sux right.lol

Nick O
06-22-2013, 11:16 PM
here is my question for you why do you have jerry west ranked higher than wade? Wade is a top 3 sg of alltime. if you have kobe and mj above west why not wade i mean seriously wade,kobe, and mj all have very similar playing styles and impact on the game. wade is like early jordan always in attack mode, kobe is like later jordan fadeaways. west has one ring, he played in a time when people could barely dribble with their off hand.

wade was great for 5-6 years.. West was REALLY good for his entire career ... Not saying Wade wont pass him .. but he hasnt yet.

Bruins2012
06-22-2013, 11:21 PM
I get why Kobe and Wade are all-time great players and have respect for the skill and professionalism they bring to their craft. I understand why Kobe Bryant goes to the line as much as he does. I understand why Dwyane Wade goes to the line as much as he does, too. They are constantly changing speeds, using shot-fakes and other moves to get their opponents off-balance and sometimes into the air. That’s why they draw as many fouls as they do – because defenders cannot stay in front of them.

LeBron James does not have the same skills.

You never see LeBron changing speeds. LeBron goes the free throw line as much as he does because he takes his 6’9,” 270-pound frame and charges the basket at full speed. There is no deception, there is no balance and there is very little skill involved. Players like LeBron do not work to go the line, they are constantly bailed out by officials.

Nick O
06-22-2013, 11:25 PM
I get why Kobe and Wade are all-time great players and have respect for the skill and professionalism they bring to their craft. I understand why Kobe Bryant goes to the line as much as he does. I understand why Dwyane Wade goes to the line as much as he does, too. They are constantly changing speeds, using shot-fakes and other moves to get their opponents off-balance and sometimes into the air. That’s why they draw as many fouls as they do – because defenders cannot stay in front of them.

LeBron James does not have the same skills.

You never see LeBron changing speeds. LeBron goes the free throw line as much as he does because he takes his 6’9,” 270-pound frame and charges the basket at full speed. There is no deception, there is no balance and there is very little skill involved. Players like LeBron do not work to go the line, they are constantly bailed out by officials.

wade and lebron also ***** alot when they dont get calls... its kinda sad.. 9 times out of 10 when they dont get the call they will complain in one way or another.... not really hating though.. amazing players obviously

bbblack40
06-22-2013, 11:36 PM
wade was great for 5-6 years.. West was REALLY good for his entire career ... Not saying Wade wont pass him .. but he hasnt yet.


You may want to go check some video or the stats whatever you use to guage a player because you mistaken bigtime Wade has been great every year of his career.if he was only great for 5-6 years then he wouldnt be ranked 6th in player effiecency rating of all-time. ten years is a longtime and every year wade has been great. You said jerry was really good, but wade is great, great is better than good. its funny how people bring up rings when they say kobe has 5 rings thats why hes better than lbj and wade if thats the case wade has more rings than west. west was a good offensive player in a time when there was very litte defense. wade is a two way player that is great on defense and offense.

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 11:41 PM
YES

Michael Jordan: 13 seasons | 27.9 PER | .250 WS/48 | 6 rings
Magic Johnson: 17 seasons | 24.1 PER | .224 WS/48 | 5 rings
Larry Bird: 13 seasons | 23.5 PER | .203 WS/48 | 3 rings
Wilt Chamberlain: 14 seasons | 26.1 PER | .248 WS/48 | 2 rings
Bill Russell: 13 seasons | 18.9 PER | .193 WS/48 | 11 rings
LeBron James: 10 seasons | 27.6 PER | .241 WS/48 | 2 rings
Hakeem Olajuwon: 18 seasons | 23.6 PER | .177 WS/48 | 2 rings
Shaquille O'Neal: 19 seasons | 26.4 PER | .208 WS/48 | 4 rings
Tim Duncan: 16 seasons | 24.7 PER | .213 WS/48 | 4 rings
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 20 seasons | 24.6 PER | .228 WS/48 | 6 rings
Oscar Robertson: 14 seasons | 23.2 PER | .207 WS/48 | 1 ring
Kobe Bryant: 17 seasons | 23.4 PER | .183 WS/48 | 5 rings
Julius Erving: 16 seasons | 23.6 PER | .192 WS/48 | 3 rings

Dwyane Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings

NO

Jerry West: 14 seasons | 22.9 PER | .213 WS/48 | 1 ring
Kevin Garnett: 18 seasons | 23.1 PER | .188 WS/48 | 1 ring
Charles Barkley: 16 seasons | 24.6 PER | .216 WS/48 | 0 rings
Karl Malone: 19 seasons | 23.9 PER | .205 WS/48 | 0 rings
Elgin Baylor: 14 seasons | 22.7 PER | .148 WS/48 | 1 ring
Bob Pettit: 11 seasons | 25.3 PER | .213 WS/48 | 1 ring
Dirk Nowitzki: 15 seasons | 23.5 PER | .209 WS/48 | 1 ring
Clyde Drexler: 15 seasons | 21.1 PER | .173 WS/48 | 1 ring
Patrick Ewing: 17 seasons | 21.0 PER | .150 WS/48 | 0 rings
Isiah Thomas: 13 seasons | 18.1 PER | .109 WS/48 | 2 rings
Walt Clyde Frazier: 13 seasons | 19.1 PER | .176 WS/48 | 2 rings
George Gervin: 14 seasons | 21.4 PER | .157 WS/48 | 0 rings
Scottie Pippen: 17 seasons | 18.6 PER | .146 WS/48 | 6 rings
Allen Iverson: 14 seasons | 20.9 PER | .126 WS/48 | 0 rings
Kevin McHale: 13 seasons | 20.0 PER | .180 WS/48 | 3 rings

I HAVE WADE #14 ALL TIME. 1 MORE RING AND HE PASSES OSCAR TO #13. I CHANGE MY ANSWER FROM TOP 20 TO TOP 15 AFTER LOOKING AT EVERYONES LINE.

bbblack40
06-22-2013, 11:46 PM
YES

Michael Jordan: 13 seasons | 27.9 PER | .250 WS/48 | 6 rings
Magic Johnson: 17 seasons | 24.1 PER | .224 WS/48 | 5 rings
Larry Bird: 13 seasons | 23.5 PER | .203 WS/48 | 3 rings
Wilt Chamberlain: 14 seasons | 26.1 PER | .248 WS/48 | 2 rings
Bill Russell: 13 seasons | 18.9 PER | .193 WS/48 | 11 rings
LeBron James: 10 seasons | 27.6 PER | .241 WS/48 | 2 rings
Hakeem Olajuwon: 18 seasons | 23.6 PER | .177 WS/48 | 2 rings
Shaquille O'Neal: 19 seasons | 26.4 PER | .208 WS/48 | 4 rings
Tim Duncan: 16 seasons | 24.7 PER | .213 WS/48 | 4 rings
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 20 seasons | 24.6 PER | .228 WS/48 | 6 rings
Oscar Robertson: 14 seasons | 23.2 PER | .207 WS/48 | 1 ring
Kobe Bryant: 17 seasons | 23.4 PER | .183 WS/48 | 5 rings
Julius Erving: 16 seasons | 23.6 PER | .192 WS/48 | 3 rings

Dwyane Wade: 10 seasons | 25.5 PER | .195 WS/48 | 3 rings

NO

Jerry West: 14 seasons | 22.9 PER | .213 WS/48 | 1 ring
Kevin Garnett: 18 seasons | 23.1 PER | .188 WS/48 | 1 ring
Charles Barkley: 16 seasons | 24.6 PER | .216 WS/48 | 0 rings
Karl Malone: 19 seasons | 23.9 PER | .205 WS/48 | 0 rings
Elgin Baylor: 14 seasons | 22.7 PER | .148 WS/48 | 1 ring
Bob Pettit: 11 seasons | 25.3 PER | .213 WS/48 | 1 ring
Dirk Nowitzki: 15 seasons | 23.5 PER | .209 WS/48 | 1 ring
Clyde Drexler: 15 seasons | 21.1 PER | .173 WS/48 | 1 ring
Patrick Ewing: 17 seasons | 21.0 PER | .150 WS/48 | 0 rings
Isiah Thomas: 13 seasons | 18.1 PER | .109 WS/48 | 2 rings
Walt Clyde Frazier: 13 seasons | 19.1 PER | .176 WS/48 | 2 rings
George Gervin: 14 seasons | 21.4 PER | .157 WS/48 | 0 rings
Scottie Pippen: 17 seasons | 18.6 PER | .146 WS/48 | 6 rings
Allen Iverson: 14 seasons | 20.9 PER | .126 WS/48 | 0 rings
Kevin McHale: 13 seasons | 20.0 PER | .180 WS/48 | 3 rings

I HAVE WADE NUMBER 14 ALL TIME. I CHANGE MY ANSWER FROM TOP 20 TO TOP 15 AFTER LOOKING AT EVERYONES LINE.

this list is pretty good, on the list for the yes, is that the order you have them in?

canefandynasty
06-22-2013, 11:48 PM
this list is pretty good, on the list for the yes, is that the order you have them in?

No.

bbblack40
06-23-2013, 12:10 AM
No.

well in that case that list better than good, its great. I honestly believe the only thing keeping wade out of the top ten is a reg. season mvp which will probably never come if lebron stays in miami with wade.

JC_
06-23-2013, 12:15 AM
How is that ignorant? Bosh didn't play well, thus Miami had to find a way to make up for it. I don't know about you but he gets paid the same as LeBron and didn't perform to the expectation of a big three. There's a reason he's always the first in trade talks by many when Miami loses. If he rebounds and scores, Miami are a dangerous team. WHEN. If he doesn't, you have Hibbert/Duncan destroying him.

You are right about the money, neither Bosh nor Wade should be getting paid as much as they are but that will probably change. The reason I said it was ignorant is because Bosh did a lot to help them win. He played great defense this series and there's plenty of film to back up that statement.

canefandynasty
06-23-2013, 12:20 AM
You are right about the money, neither Bosh nor Wade should be getting paid as much as they are but that will probably change. The reason I said it was ignorant is because Bosh did a lot to help them win. He played great defense this series and there's plenty of film to back up that statement.

A healthy Wade worth the max. The problem is he's always injured. If he can get himself to Germany and get the same treatment they did for Kobe, he will be a TOP 5 player again. Alot of the Heat performance in 2014 depends on Wade's offseason health.

Nick O
06-23-2013, 12:46 AM
A healthy Wade worth the max. The problem is he's always injured. If he can get himself to Germany and get the same treatment they did for Kobe, he will be a TOP 5 player again. Alot of the Heat performance in 2014 depends on Wade's offseason health.

hes the worth the max on every team but the heat... Wade is a future HOF no doubt. but still he isnt necessary for the heat to win . the heat could win an nba title without wade. they couldnt without lebron. James should be making more then both of them. althought to be fair i thought it was cool they all took the same salary. thats pretty cool to me to be honest.

JC_
06-23-2013, 12:56 AM
LeBron played great, he played up to standards. Tony Parker was in a slump those last two games because James was guarding him. Not to mention LeBron had to guard Green, Gino, Leonard, and whoever else was on fire. Wade didn't play up to standard but games 4/7 was 2 guaranteed wins because of Wade stepping up. Bosh is regarded as a big three and since he was injury free, he should've been performing like he was part of one. Not saying he doesn't do a lot, but if he was performing WELL, Miami wouldn't need 7 games. When he underperforms, someone has to carry that load and that meant James/Wade/co had to do that much more.

Wasn't Lebron shooting like 35% before game 7? He was afraid of his jumpshot up until he got hot in game 7. Wade was +/- of -15 in game 6. Bosh and Wade both had great games in game 5 but like I said Lebron's shooting was terrible. Chalmers was awful in game 7 yet I haven't heard word about it because Lebron and Wade were on fire. Yes, like many in the NBA, Bosh is overpaid but honestly if Lebron had been confident in his shot sooner or passed to someone like Bosh instead of shooting, Heat would have probably won this series in 6 games. Lebron does so much and is all-around amazing so it's hard for me to criticize but when he's taking so many unconfident shots and shooting a bad % it hurts.

Not even sure why we're even arguing about this. The Heat won:up:. As far as next season, we'll see what happens.

OaklandsFinest
06-23-2013, 01:19 AM
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Kareem
Russell
Kobe
Hakeem
Big O
Dr J
Duncan
Malone (Karl)
Malone (Moses)
Barkley
Lebron
Stockton
Robinson
Zeke
Ewing
Drexler
Dirk

Players that still rank higher all time to me (quick 22 off top of my head, can find more). All time list is a collective and it's rare that a player at 30 will be ranked with long retired players. Maybe we can compromise at Wade being 30-40 instead of 40-50. Not top 20 yet though.

.....

Dominique Wilkins
Scottie Pippen
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
Jerry West
John Havlicheck
Jordon
Jason Kidd
George Girvan
Kobe Bryant

Just to name a few, and I'ma Heat fan just disapointed to see Wade relegated to picking his spots and still not developing a jumper. Either he's picking his spots or doping and neither is a good answer

OaklandsFinest
06-23-2013, 01:24 AM
Anybody who says Wade is better than West, Girvan and Nique and those guys need their heads checked or need to pick up a book. West was by far the stone cold O.G killer, just born in the wrong era, and if you think what KD is doing now is nice check out Girvan.

OaklandsFinest
06-23-2013, 01:35 AM
In the epic words of Bob Ryan "Kobe vs Havlicheck 1 on 1? Good luck Kobe"

bbblack40
06-23-2013, 01:39 AM
after reading the last 3 posts, good night psd#icant

OceanSpray
06-23-2013, 04:06 AM
Oakland, Jerry played against scrubs. I'm sorry, if you really think Havlicek<Kobe, you're ********. Havlicek, no competition, still couldn't put up Kobe's stats.