PDA

View Full Version : Kawhi Leonard= Shawn Marion 2.0



Clippersfan86
06-20-2013, 10:58 PM
Now I haven't looked over the more advanced stats but that's the only guy I think of when I see Kawhi play and I'll give my reasons.

1. Defensive versatility. Both guys can pretty much guard 1-4 due to their great length, big hands, lateral quickness and surprising strength for their lean builds.

2. Kawhi doesn't seem to have the ability to carry a team as the 1st option but much like young Matrix will be an elite 2nd or 3rd option in his prime most likely.

3. Is an INSANE rebounder for his size, similar to Marion.

4. Both above average athletically, great finishing ability.

5. Underrated IQ and passing ability.


Thoughts?

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:01 PM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.

Hawkeye15
06-20-2013, 11:06 PM
agreed, without the jumpshot that looks like its a hot potato and he has a torn shoulder limb that can't extend.

But great comparison.

Hawkeye15
06-20-2013, 11:06 PM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.

no. he. isn't.

Clippersfan86
06-20-2013, 11:07 PM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.

Not sure if srs... prime Marion was a 22 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 bpg, 2 spg, 2 apg player with a PER of 24 and TS% of 59 in his best year which is SUPERSTAR numbers. I LOVE Kawhi but he's nowhere near there yet.

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:07 PM
He isn't putting up the numbers yet, but that is due to him being on a deep team.

Clippersfan86
06-20-2013, 11:08 PM
agreed, without the jumpshot that looks like its a hot potato and he has a torn shoulder limb that can't extend.

But great comparison.

Ugliest shot in NBA history. Much like Matrix I'm confident Kawhi will age extremely well and be an elite defender well into his late 30's.

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:10 PM
I realize I'll get flak for my comment and that's fine. It's just an opinion. I can only go by the eye test right now. You're right, I have no statistical argument.

Ebbs
06-20-2013, 11:11 PM
Umm kinda. Definitely nowhere near as ugly a jumper.

But prime Matrix was far more explosive than Leonard is right now.

Clippersfan86
06-20-2013, 11:12 PM
I realize I'll get flak for my comment and that's fine. It's just an opinion. I can only go by the eye test right now. You're right, I have no statistical argument.

Did you watch Phoenix Suns Matrix? Also could be hard to fathom because Kawhi is playing so freaking well in the biggest stage.

Clippersfan86
06-20-2013, 11:13 PM
Umm kinda. Definitely nowhere near as ugly a jumper.

But prime Matrix was far more explosive than Leonard is right now.

Kawhi better shot, Matrix better attacking the paint.

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:14 PM
Yeah I did. They also played at such a high tempo. That Suns team was fun to watch.

Clippersfan86
06-20-2013, 11:18 PM
Yeah I did. They also played at such a high tempo. That Suns team was fun to watch.

He also played huge minutes. So no doubt Marion's stats are what would be called inflated. Kawhi isn't aggressive enough offensively yet to be quite on that level but defense, rebounding are already nearly equal.

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:20 PM
Ok I'll rescind my better comment, but I think he can be as good. It's true he isn't as explosive but he finds his ways.

Hawkeye15
06-20-2013, 11:27 PM
He isn't putting up the numbers yet, but that is due to him being on a deep team.

no, it isn't. He is nowhere near Marion's peak level yet. Does he project as a similar player?

Yes

Hawkeye15
06-20-2013, 11:28 PM
I realize I'll get flak for my comment and that's fine. It's just an opinion. I can only go by the eye test right now. You're right, I have no statistical argument.

well, I have a stat argument. And I get what you are talking about, I don't think its ridiculous to think he might be a better player, but he needs to develop multiple tools in order to fit your claim. I think he can, but its up to him.

JEDean89
06-20-2013, 11:29 PM
that 2nd part of that draft, 15-30 yielded Kawhi, Vucevic, Shumpert, Faried and Tobias Harris. They all would be lottery picks if that draft was redone.

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:29 PM
Sorry I just have to disagree on this one. Nothing personal. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch it all play out over the next few years.

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:32 PM
well, I have a stat argument. And I get what you are talking about, I don't think its ridiculous to think he might be a better player, but he needs to develop multiple tools in order to fit your claim. I think he can, but its up to him.

I'm a Pistons fan and I'd give up Monroe and KNight for Leonard, draft Zeller. This would NEVER happen but I can do it on 2K all day lol

Hawkeye15
06-20-2013, 11:35 PM
I'm a Pistons fan and I'd give up Monroe and KNight for Leonard, draft Zeller. This would NEVER happen but I can do it on 2K all day lol

Monroe on the right team is money.

That being said, I am a closet Pistons fan, and love Monroe. And I don't necessarily disagree with your trade, because I think Knight is crap.

DTownSkitzo
06-20-2013, 11:36 PM
Monroe on the right team is money.

That being said, I am a closet Pistons fan, and love Monroe. And I don't necessarily disagree with your trade, because I think Knight is crap.

Hence my trying to trade away while he still has the 'youth' factor on his side. Knight wouldn't be a horrible 6th man on a good team...lol

Mr_Jones
06-20-2013, 11:56 PM
This guy is amazing. I look forward to watching him get better and better. He seems like a great guy with a big schlong too.

ThaDubs
06-20-2013, 11:58 PM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.

No way. NO WAY.

LongWayFromHome
06-20-2013, 11:59 PM
much better comparison than Rodman.

blastmasta26
06-21-2013, 12:02 AM
Yeah I like this comparison. Kawhi and also Paul George both shined in the playoffs, and can be very good in their primes.

SteveNash
06-21-2013, 12:05 AM
Kawhi definitely proved he was better than Paul George, as I said.

Marion comparison is decent with less choking.

THE GIPPER
06-21-2013, 12:06 AM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.

Youngin'

jezzyman05
06-21-2013, 12:06 AM
no. he. isn't.

Yes Kahwi is better right now than Matrix was in his prime... The reason why he gets no recognition because he is not asked to

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:09 AM
Kawhi definitely proved he was better than Paul George, as I said.

Marion comparison is decent with less choking.

Well choking comment not fair because Marion carried WAY more of the burden of his team. He wasn't a 3rd or 4th option like Kawhi currently on a title contender.

THE GIPPER
06-21-2013, 12:13 AM
Yes Kahwi is better right now than Matrix was in his prime... The reason why he gets no recognition because he is not asked to

Talk to me when Kawhi puts up number in the same stratosphere as 23pts 11.8reb 1.7blk on 52.5% shooting with a PER of 23.6.

Yes, those are Marion's numbers not Dwight Howard's.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 12:16 AM
Talk to me when Kawhi puts up number in the same stratosphere as 23pts 11.8reb 1.7blk on 52.5% shooting with a PER of 23.6.

Yes, those are Marion's numbers not Dwight Howard's.

Don't forget the 2 steals per game and 2 assists per game. Marion was one of the most well rounded players for sure.

IversonIsKrazy
06-21-2013, 01:22 AM
I feel that Leonard will be better than Marion. He is so well-rounded. Marion had awkward ball-handling and ugly ugly shot. Not to mention his prime was with a up-tempo Suns coached by Pringles & run by Nash during the season of which Amare was out nd he became 2nd option for the team. Not to mention had his coming-out party in the biggest stage.

3iverson3
06-21-2013, 01:34 AM
I think he can be better. He is developing the shot and will continue to get better

mynameismo
06-21-2013, 01:48 AM
More like a young Scottie Pippen.

Joshtd1
06-21-2013, 02:24 AM
Leonard will be better. Marion was probably more athletic, but I think Kawhi will be just as good defensively, and is more rounded offensively. If he were to play at the PF spot for a full season ala Marion/LBJ he would be averaging a double-double. I hope the Spurs actually give him more offensive responsibility next year

jezzyman05
06-21-2013, 02:45 AM
Talk to me when Kawhi puts up number in the same stratosphere as 23pts 11.8reb 1.7blk on 52.5% shooting with a PER of 23.6.

Yes, those are Marion's numbers not Dwight Howard's.

That's a stupid argument......right now Kahwi is better now than Matrix in his prime and your an idiot to think other wise.... he has better potential , skill set and lets not forget he still has not filled Ón his frame either he is supposed to be 6'7 around 230-235...... PER has nothing to do with it right....when Kahwi hits 25 we shall see.

Kahwi has not been asked to do much except be the glue guy right now next when Ginobili leaves (hopefully) Kahwi will be part of the new Big 3 to anchor the Spurs moving forward.

Chrisclover
06-21-2013, 04:50 AM
when the old boys retire, he will be the cornerstone
He isn't putting up the numbers yet, but that is due to him being on a deep team.

Dade County
06-21-2013, 04:53 AM
I can't stand him ( i don't even want to type his name)...

That's how much he impressed me.

Jimmy butler 2.0

sunsfan88
06-21-2013, 05:23 AM
Its a very good comparison but few here think that Leonard will be better than Marion and I don't see that happening. I see Leonard being a poor man's Marion or at best as good as Marion.

TRF929
06-21-2013, 05:48 AM
I love how everyone brings up Marion's best statistical year to compare. It'll be a couple more years until Leonard has the opportunity to become a top priority, making it even harder to judge him until then but IMO he can be a better Pippen/Marion. He's only 21 and has lots of room for growth, mentally and physically. He works extremely hard so his ball handling skills will greatly improve, along with his shot.

THE GIPPER
06-21-2013, 01:18 PM
That's a stupid argument......right now Kahwi is better now than Matrix in his prime and your an idiot to think other wise

Amazing argument! PSD, never change.


*Poster A presents a factual argument*


Poster B: "Ya well, you're just an idiot then."

Raps18-19 Champ
06-21-2013, 01:19 PM
Mix between Shawn Marion and Gerald Wallace.

DTownSkitzo
06-21-2013, 01:25 PM
I'm 23, I watched those Suns and remember them quite clearly. I want to see what Leonard can do as a consistent 2nd option on a team.

rhymeratic
06-21-2013, 01:34 PM
Nah, he's better than Marion ever was. I'd say lets not compare him to anyone but himself. Kawhi Leonard is da man! Really hope they build around him going forward.

kingkenny01
06-21-2013, 01:41 PM
Him and Jimmy Butler remind me of each other, it will be interesting to see which one has a better career

lamzoka
06-21-2013, 01:55 PM
Prime Matrix played in d'antonie system.

MonroeFAN
06-21-2013, 02:17 PM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.


wtf?

Leonard has a looooooooong way to go in order for that to be true. Marion was a top 10 player in the league at times.

Clippersfan86
06-21-2013, 02:18 PM
Prime Matrix played in d'antonie system.

I already mentioned that inflated his scoring. That being said Kawhi isn't quite prime Marion yet.

seikou8
06-21-2013, 02:27 PM
kawi has alot of potential of my favorite players and he is so quite

Chronz
06-21-2013, 06:22 PM
I can see it but I feel like Kawhi is a better man defender, Marion a better team and more versatile defender. Marion was more productive in the RS ( not sure about the playoffs) but I feel like KL can be a stronger driver in the future.

Shkelqim
06-21-2013, 06:25 PM
I'd say Bruce Bowen more than Marion

tredigs
06-21-2013, 06:41 PM
I'd say Bruce Bowen more than Marion

Really? But Kawhi can score/rebound/hit free throws, and isn't in Bowen's league as a man defender (he's very good, but not Bruce good). I don't see the connection at all.

I like the Marion one, though Shawn's the better rebounder + scorer.

SeoulBeatz
06-21-2013, 06:52 PM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.

not yet, don't forget how much of an all around freak marion was. Kawhi is def capable of reaching Marion's level, but in his prime, Shawn put up some gaudy numbers like

21.8ppg (53%FG), 11.8 rpg, 2.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 2.0 bpg.

He was a freaking efficient beast... Kawhi hasn't shown that quite yet.

Chronz
06-21-2013, 06:54 PM
Matrix+G-Force = Kawhi?

Knick_Fever
06-21-2013, 06:57 PM
I understand what you mean, but I think Leonard can be better than the Matrix. He is, as of now, as good as Marion was in his prime.

Couldn't of said it better myself. Leonard is going to be a force moving forward. Spurs future looks bright with him in the mix. Pop is going to mold him into a superstar.

Jarvo
06-21-2013, 08:16 PM
When it's said it done he'll be better than him, But he's still young and played good in the playoffs and even better in The Finals. Not bad to compare him with Marion but Marion was a very high volume scorer.

Chronz
06-21-2013, 08:26 PM
Prime Matrix played in d'antonie system.

And he plays in Pops.... whats your point?

Munkeysuit
06-21-2013, 08:26 PM
Hmmm...I think you might be onto something there, Marion and he are similar, I think Kawhi is a better shooter from long range and maybe Marion was a little better in the post...for now anyways, I sincerely think kawhi is just scratching the surface of his potential and just happens to be on the right team to hone his skills to its max potential.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-21-2013, 08:31 PM
I think he'll have better offense though throughout his career.

Joshtd1
06-22-2013, 02:08 AM
Kawhi is a better overall scorer then Marion..he has more offensive moves. I'd be willing to bet if Kawhi played with a Steve Nash PG in that type of offense at the PF spot, he would put up just as good of numbers if not better.

I dont think he will ever be a true go to guy on a contending team for the fact I don't think he has a pure scorer mentality, but could be an excellent #2. He just needs to work on his ball handing and confidence with his pull up and the sky is the limit for him.

His man D is much improved from last year, and his anticipation with steals is excellent. I'm hoping he can develop a knack for weak side shot blocking

seikou8
06-22-2013, 02:22 AM
Him and Jimmy Butler remind me of each other, it will be interesting to see which one has a better career

kawi is better than him by good margin on both ends

flgatorsandjags
06-22-2013, 02:26 AM
Marion played PF with the Suns and Mike's defensive scheme is why he got so many rebounds, and he had Steve Nash as his PG where thats where most of his points came from and fast breaks. Marion was one of the best all around defenders in the league. Its possible but he isnt there yet.

waveycrockett
06-22-2013, 08:56 AM
He reminds me more of a prime Gerald Wallace but they all pretty much play that same role. They are more athlete than polished ball player but they can get it done.