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View Full Version : Popovich Is The Only Chessmaster In A World Full Of Checkers



amos1er
06-17-2013, 05:46 PM
We should all marvel at the brilliant adjustments Pop has made thus far. Especially in this latest game five where he shocked everyone by starting Manu in place of Tiago Splitter. This latest chess move comes one game after Spoelstra replaced Haslem with Miller in his starting lineup in game 4. This turned out to be a brilliant move as Manu lit it up with 24 points and 10 assists and truly was the difference maker in the game.

However, that wasn't the only brilliant move Pop made that game. He also put Boris Diaw on Lebron to slow him down in the paint. This move resulted in Lebron going 1/8 whenever Diaw was guarding him.

Pop has been one step ahead of Spoelstra this entire series by first stealing game one on the Heats home floor in a series where no team has been able to win two straight. Interesting to see how Spoelstra responds. He has done well so far, but is most likely outmatched against the 4 time champion Gregg Popovich. It might just be checkmate for the Heat in game 6 if Spoe can't match this latest move. Much respect to Pops! :clap:

Eg714
06-17-2013, 06:07 PM
Pops is the man. Best coach in the league and its not really close at all. There's so much that he does that effects his team.

bucketss
06-17-2013, 06:13 PM
refs are going to romp the spurs tomorrow i won't even watch i already know the outcome *unless spurs go stupid behind the ark*

amos1er
06-17-2013, 06:15 PM
refs are going to romp the spurs tomorrow i won't even watch i already know the outcome *unless spurs go stupid behind the ark*

Kinda like the 09 Magic did to get past Lebron and the refs.

bucketss
06-17-2013, 06:16 PM
Kinda like the 09 Magic did to get past Lebron and the refs.

that series was really suspicious, like when dwight got called for a foul when he blocked lebron from behind as he attempted a three, one of the most laughable calls ever.

amos1er
06-17-2013, 06:18 PM
that series was really suspicious, like when dwight got called for a foul when he blocked lebron from behind as he attempted a three, one of the most laughable calls ever.

At least we agree on that. Stern wanted a Kobe vs. Lebron finals for sure.

bholly
06-17-2013, 06:23 PM
refs are going to romp the spurs tomorrow i won't even watch i already know the outcome *unless spurs go stupid behind the ark*

This prediction is meaningless (at least in terms of being able to say "see! I told you so!" afterwards, which is obviously what you're going for) unless you give some indication of what counts as "go stupid". Otherwise they'll win shooting something normal like 5-10 from three, and you'll say "oh, yeah, just like I said, but there's nothing the refs can do about those 15 points".
Even then it's still pretty meaningless - when you shoot a lot of threes, winning when you hit them and losing when you don't isn't really evidence of anything.

Also the three point line is an 'arc'. An ark is a boat (preferably with two of each animal on it).

Uncle Chuck
06-17-2013, 06:23 PM
Pops is the man. Best coach in the league and its not really close at all. There's so much that he does that effects his team.

I'll give the Pops that credit, But I wouldnt say it isn't close at all. Thibs is right there with him, he just needs more time at the HC spot to prove it.

abe_froman
06-17-2013, 06:27 PM
I'll give the Pops that credit, But I wouldnt say it isn't close at all. Thibs is right there with him, he just needs more time at the HC spot to prove it.
no,i love thibs but he needs to learn time management with players.thats the big difference between pop and thibs(and why pops is better clearly),pops understands the value of giving rest to players while thibs will run guys till they're running on fumes.

THE MTL
06-17-2013, 06:41 PM
When Miami needed game 6 and especially game 7 against the Pacers, it gave Pop too much time. I do think Miami is the better team, but Pop is a wizard.

jam
06-17-2013, 07:20 PM
There aren't many 'difference makers' in the nba coaching ranks. Phil, Greg, Thibs, Vogel, Mark Jackson, Karl.

There's a second tier including Sloan, Woodson, perhaps Hollins and maybe a couple of others.

Otherwise, the coaches at best, don't get in the way of their player's talents.

Right now, it's tough to make a case that there's any better than GP. Vogel's a better motivator in my book, using positive reinforcement as his foundation, but Vogel's understanding of the game pales in comparison to the far more experienced and decorated GP.

GP is a lighter, more cerebral, 'quiet fury' version of bob knight. If Bob Knight had ever grown up, he'd be GP.

hugepatsfan
06-17-2013, 07:24 PM
Putting Diaw on Lebron only works because Diaw can do it. Coaches can't "make" players. What a good coach does is find the things they are good at and put them in position to do it on the court.

jam
06-17-2013, 07:31 PM
Putting Diaw on Lebron only works because Diaw can do it. Coaches can't "make" players. What a good coach does is find the things they are good at and put them in position to do it on the court.

True dat. That's why kevin mchale sucks as a coach. He had a challenge this past season. Could he successfully integrate two ball dominant combo guards into his offense? I believe he failed miserably, mis-using Lin as a stand in the corner spot up shooter. About as wrongly conceived as using Shaq as a PG, or CP3 as a center.

He even mis-used, or should I say overused harden, who wore down into a shell of his former self, in the last third, or even last half of the season.

Mchale's third major mistake was to under-utilize a very promising Terence Jones.

Mchale won a lot of games with a young roster, but it was due solely to the talent available to him. He either mis or under utilized that talent badly in several ways.

Would love to see a quality coach leading houston.

kubernetes
06-17-2013, 07:32 PM
Just as in most sports, the majority of NBA coaches are glorified personnel managers. The number of actual thinkers (strategists, innovators) is very small, so it's not surprising.

Hawkeye15
06-17-2013, 07:34 PM
Putting Diaw on Lebron only works because Diaw can do it. Coaches can't "make" players. What a good coach does is find the things they are good at and put them in position to do it on the court.

very true, but I also think another strong point of the great coaches is their ability to make in game adjustments. Spo is very good at making adjustments from game to game, but sorely lacks Pops ability to read and react in the moment.

Hawkeye15
06-17-2013, 07:37 PM
Just as in most sports, the majority of NBA coaches are glorified personnel managers. The number of actual thinkers (strategists, innovators) is very small, so it's not surprising.

a lot of teams best strategic coaches are the assistants.

jam
06-17-2013, 07:39 PM
Yup, it's really only pop and thibs who come to mind. Actually, it might only be thibs.

When you've got 12 of the most talented athletes on the planet, you don't want to install too many plays or get them thinking too much anyway.

Just let them do what their best at, and you're good. Even scott brooks, who's as dumb as a rock, understands that. Spoelstra emphasizes defense but otherwise has nothing to say. Which is good, because he has the IQ of a turnip.

Most nba coaches are shockingly stupid in the x's and o's department, working their way into and up the coaching ranks via various mentorship opportunities and hobnobbing, brown nosing and generally being loyal to their superiors.

It's just yet another sad example of the fact that dumb, loyal people almost always get the best jobs.


Just as in most sports, the majority of NBA coaches are glorified personnel managers. The number of actual thinkers (strategists, innovators) is very small, so it's not surprising.

jam
06-17-2013, 07:39 PM
Yup, it's really only pop and thibs who come to mind. Actually, it might only be thibs.

When you've got 12 of the most talented athletes on the planet, you don't want to install too many plays or get them thinking too much anyway.

Just let them do what their best at, and you're good. Even scott brooks, who's as dumb as a rock, understands that. Spoelstra emphasizes defense but otherwise has nothing to say. Which is good, because he has the IQ of a turnip.

Most nba coaches are shockingly stupid in the x's and o's department, working their way into and up the coaching ranks via various mentorship opportunities and hobnobbing, brown nosing and generally being loyal to their superiors.

It's just yet another sad example of the fact that dumb, loyal people almost always get the best jobs.


Just as in most sports, the majority of NBA coaches are glorified personnel managers. The number of actual thinkers (strategists, innovators) is very small, so it's not surprising.

amos1er
06-17-2013, 08:17 PM
True dat. That's why kevin mchale sucks as a coach. He had a challenge this past season. Could he successfully integrate two ball dominant combo guards into his offense? I believe he failed miserably, mis-using Lin as a stand in the corner spot up shooter. About as wrongly conceived as using Shaq as a PG, or CP3 as a center.

He even mis-used, or should I say overused harden, who wore down into a shell of his former self, in the last third, or even last half of the season.

Mchale's third major mistake was to under-utilize a very promising Terence Jones.

Mchale won a lot of games with a young roster, but it was due solely to the talent available to him. He either mis or under utilized that talent badly in several ways.

Would love to see a quality coach leading houston.

The choice of Mchale as a coach for Huston surprised me as well. Not all that impressed, but he should be given some more time.

amos1er
06-17-2013, 08:26 PM
Yup, it's really only pop and thibs who come to mind. Actually, it might only be thibs.

When you've got 12 of the most talented athletes on the planet, you don't want to install too many plays or get them thinking too much anyway.

Just let them do what their best at, and you're good. Even scott brooks, who's as dumb as a rock, understands that. Spoelstra emphasizes defense but otherwise has nothing to say. Which is good, because he has the IQ of a turnip.

Most nba coaches are shockingly stupid in the x's and o's department, working their way into and up the coaching ranks via various mentorship opportunities and hobnobbing, brown nosing and generally being loyal to their superiors.

It's just yet another sad example of the fact that dumb, loyal people almost always get the best jobs.

Ya, good coaches are hard to come by these days. Pops is head and shoulders above the rest, next in line has to be Thibs though. I also really like what Jackson is doing in Golden State. I can see him becoming a great coach one day...not that he's not good already. I really want to see someone give Brian Shaw a chance. He was Phil Jackson's number one recommendation and Jim Buss didn't even consider him. Every one on the Lakers loved Shaw and I believe whoever hires him will be happy with that choice. I don't believe Spoelstra is bad per se, just that he is not in the league of the more experienced and decorated Popovich...which is understandable.

TRF929
06-17-2013, 09:10 PM
What would the Heat look like if Pop was their coach? Would they be what everyone thought they'd be? A Pop Spurs team vs. a Pop Heat team, now that would be a challenging chess match

jam
06-17-2013, 09:30 PM
I wonder if fans ever listen to mic'ed coaches during timeouts. The information is very sobering.

JVG calls Spo a "hall of famer" and Brooks has been to the finals. Yet when you listen to them talk, it's clear that both of these guys can barely speak english. They have a tough time forming a coherent sentence, much less inspiring their players or even providing any semblance of strategy.

Mike Brown "led" the cavs to 66(?) wins with lebron's cavs. Think about that. Mike Brown. I'd be surprised if the guy could spell his own name.

The only nba coach I've ever seen who seems to be clearly intelligent, and probably exceptionally so, is Phil Jackson. It's a list of one.

There are plenty of intelligent, well spoken, strategically sophisticated COLLEGE coaches. I could rattle off a very long list very easily.

The evidence STRONGLY suggests that dumb, uninspired, uninspiring coaches ironically are generally effective in the NBA since they don't know enough to get in the way of their players.

CTCUBBIES
06-17-2013, 10:14 PM
I love Pops. He traded Rodman to the Bulls for Will Purdue. Joking aside he is an incredible coach.

ThuglifeJ
06-17-2013, 11:29 PM
I feel like almost none of us even know what coaches are actually good or not, but just speak on the reputation..

How do we know what 'time management' is correct for the players and what's not... were just basing this off success..which have a lot of factors to it.


really non of us have high level basketball coaching. That being said Popavich and Phil Jackson seem to get countless praise from players, analysts, and other coaches so I will use that as why I agree they are great coaches.

not to mention all the Spurs players, no matter where they were drafted, always turn out to be studs for the Spurs..that cant be just a coincidence. But that can also have to do with other coaches on the team as well not just Popavich.

Hawkeye15
06-17-2013, 11:38 PM
I feel like almost none of us even know what coaches are actually good or not, but just speak on the reputation..

How do we know what 'time management' is correct for the players and what's not... were just basing this off success..which have a lot of factors to it.


really non of us have high level basketball coaching. That being said Popavich and Phil Jackson seem to get countless praise from players, analysts, and other coaches so I will use that as why I agree they are great coaches.

not to mention all the Spurs players, no matter where they were drafted, always turn out to be studs for the Spurs..that cant be just a coincidence. But that can also have to do with other coaches on the team as well not just Popavich.

so we can't form an opinion that would probably be accepted by basketball minds because we talk on a chat board?

Then why bother?

SportsFanatic10
06-17-2013, 11:40 PM
lets not get carried away now, pop is a great coach probably the best in the league today, but out coaching spo isn't exactly an amazing feat. just look at what carlisle was able to do a couple years ago.

carlthack
06-17-2013, 11:51 PM
Checkmate coming on Tuesday.

Pierzynski4Prez
06-17-2013, 11:53 PM
Pop is amazing, and the best coach in the league. But lets not act like the Spurs haven't been blown out in 40% of the games so far.

ThuglifeJ
06-17-2013, 11:54 PM
so we can't form an opinion that would probably be accepted by basketball minds because we talk on a chat board?

Then why bother?

Well I didnt mean it like that, but I just feel like there's some things we just dont really know about. Such as NBA coaching. So much happens that we dont know or see.

Like we can judge a basketball player because we've all at least picked up a basketball and played, whether that's at a college level, or just throwing it at the hoop at a young age. So we can at least make judgements on what the players are doing. Could we say whether so in so is actually good if weve never touched a basketball? no..we'd have no idea.
And none of us have coached a high level or know what goes into it besides what we see on ESPN.

jam
06-18-2013, 12:01 AM
There's not that much going on and you're not really missing anything.

I played 2 years of d2 high school basketball. As freshmen, we had one play. As a sophomore jv, two. I didn't play varsity the last two years (had to focus on grades), but from what I saw, they had 3, maybe 4.

I also sat in on a few chalk and talk sessions for a major d1 program, and attended several practices as a spectator. The information was rudimentary and emphasized a few basic concepts. The players were largely inattentive from what I could tell.

Pro coaches don't have magic spells, 4th dimensional powers, or voodoo dolls. It's all elementary, basic stuff: move the ball, play defense, try your best.

If anyone thinks there's anything sophisticated going on, they are badly mistaken. :)


Well I didnt mean it like that, but I just feel like there's some things we just dont really know about. Such as NBA coaching. So much happens that we dont know or see.

Like we can judge a basketball player because we've all at least picked up a basketball and played, whether that's at a college level, or just throwing it at the hoop at a young age. So we can at least make judgements on what the players are doing. Could we say whether so in so is actually good if weve never touched a basketball? no..we'd have no idea.
And none of us have coached a high level or know what goes into it besides what we see on ESPN.

ThuglifeJ
06-18-2013, 12:17 AM
There's not that much going on and you're not really missing anything.

I played 2 years of d2 high school basketball. As freshmen, we had one play. As a sophomore jv, two. I didn't play varsity the last two years (had to focus on grades), but from what I saw, they had 3, maybe 4.

I also sat in on a few chalk and talk sessions for a major d1 program, and attended several practices as a spectator. The information was rudimentary and emphasized a few basic concepts. The players were largely inattentive from what I could tell.

Pro coaches don't have magic spells, 4th dimensional powers, or voodoo dolls. It's all elementary, basic stuff: move the ball, play defense, try your best.

If anyone thinks there's anything sophisticated going on, they are badly mistaken. :)

I cant believe you're using D2 JV highschool basketball as your basis for NBA coaching. You have no idea what goes into it.

and it's not even about Plays, plays arent a big part of NBA at all we all know that. It's about things we don't know about. Obvious things we see are rotation, timing of timeouts, usage of players, dealing with egos, motivation.

ThuglifeJ
06-18-2013, 12:19 AM
if NBA coaching was as simple as you are making it seem the players would have no respect or give a **** at all to who'm they are praising when they hold the trophy up.
The coaches are constantly looking stress and when you hear about the league trying to get ex coaches back they say they can't do it anymore, as it's too exhausting and takes over their lives.

If it were just making a rotation that wouldn't be the case.

Hawkeye15
06-18-2013, 12:25 AM
Well I didnt mean it like that, but I just feel like there's some things we just dont really know about. Such as NBA coaching. So much happens that we dont know or see.

Like we can judge a basketball player because we've all at least picked up a basketball and played, whether that's at a college level, or just throwing it at the hoop at a young age. So we can at least make judgements on what the players are doing. Could we say whether so in so is actually good if weve never touched a basketball? no..we'd have no idea.
And none of us have coached a high level or know what goes into it besides what we see on ESPN.

Some of us have done more than practice a layup.

What I mean is, maybe some of us HAVE been around elite ball. Or, some of us have studied the game as much as the men who get paid to do it have. Does it make us their equal? Of course not. Do you critique actors? How would you know, right?....

Understanding something doesn't necessarily mean you need to do it as a career. And quite frankly, we are talking about small adjustments and observations here, with plenty of evidence. Greg Popovich is an in-game master. Period. You don't need a PhD in basketball to know that.

ThuglifeJ
06-18-2013, 12:56 AM
I feel like ur taking what I'm saying wrong. I'm not saying none of the posters have played at high or elite levels. I have. Im also not saying that some posters don't have as intelligent of an basketball/nba mind as an analyst. I know I study the game like an addiction, I love basketball too much. I'm sure you do too. And I feel I know 10x more than all my friends who will never know because they don't see the countless little things that go into basketball.

but when it comes to professional coaching how the hell do we actually know what goes into it. Okay a select few might really know, but majority of the posters who say Pops the best, Phils the GOAT, etc don't actually have a clue why they are saying that other than reputation or because their success. Their is a lot to it..it's probably so difficult to maintain the right type of relationship with each player or make these giants look up to you.


I was basically just saying the guy who said all an NBA coach has to do is preach "move the ball, play defense, try your best." is wrong.
Im trying to get at guys like him really don't have a clue what an NBA coach does, there is a lot more to it that we don't know. Who knows I could be wrong tho

amos1er
06-18-2013, 02:00 AM
Pop is amazing, and the best coach in the league. But lets not act like the Spurs haven't been blown out in 40% of the games so far.

Find me one chess player that doesn't lose 60 to 90 percent of his pieces before declaring checkmate.

It's not about winning battles, it's about winning the war.

Jtirado16
06-18-2013, 02:04 AM
He's definitely the best coach in the league right now. I wouldn't say that its a huge gap.. There are still some really great coaches.

Easily for me he's in the Top 5 all time best coaches

amos1er
06-18-2013, 02:04 AM
I feel like ur taking what I'm saying wrong. I'm not saying none of the posters have played at high or elite levels. I have. Im also not saying that some posters don't have as intelligent of an basketball/nba mind as an analyst. I know I study the game like an addiction, I love basketball too much. I'm sure you do too. And I feel I know 10x more than all my friends who will never know because they don't see the countless little things that go into basketball.

but when it comes to professional coaching how the hell do we actually know what goes into it. Okay a select few might really know, but majority of the posters who say Pops the best, Phils the GOAT, etc don't actually have a clue why they are saying that other than reputation or because their success. Their is a lot to it..it's probably so difficult to maintain the right type of relationship with each player or make these giants look up to you.


I was basically just saying the guy who said all an NBA coach has to do is preach "move the ball, play defense, try your best." is wrong.
Im trying to get at guys like him really don't have a clue what an NBA coach does, there is a lot more to it that we don't know. Who knows I could be wrong tho

Coaching is probably one of the most important, if not the most important aspect of the game. It does one no good to own a Lamborghini if they don't know how to drive it.

ThuglifeJ
06-18-2013, 03:14 AM
Coaching is probably one of the most important, if not the most important aspect of the game. It does one no good to own a Lamborghini if they don't know how to drive it.

aka Clippers

RiceOnTheRun
06-18-2013, 03:18 AM
Miami's kryptonite isn't their lack of a big man, imo it's the three point shot. They have a pretty good record against big men, like Noah, Hibbert and KG. But when it comes to the three, it's the only way to beat em. We've seen it consistently throughout the season, when it rains in Miami, the Heat's put out. The Knicks dominated Miami early in the season when they were dropping threes at a record clip. Danny Green and Gary Neal are tearing it up in the finals now. Miami just has a very aggressive switching type of defense but that leaves a slight window open when a shooter comes off a screen for a slightly open three. It usually ends up well because teams can't hit those consistently, but when they start taking advantage of that, it just screws with their entire rhythm.

RiceOnTheRun
06-18-2013, 03:19 AM
aka Clippers

You're thinking of the wrong team. I believe you meant to say the Lakers.

ThuglifeJ
06-18-2013, 03:25 AM
^them too