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View Full Version : Does bolting from a faded contender to a new one make Doc Rivers look bad?



mrblisterdundee
06-16-2013, 04:56 PM
Gregg Popovich and Erik Spoelstra recently blasted the constant coaching changes of the current NBA. The place it seems most egregious is in Boston, with Doc Rivers apparently interested in the Clippers job, and vise versa.
Rivers has been coaching Boston since 2004. Boston's been a contender for five out of those nine years. Even if Boston's window is closed, which it is for a while, you know the ownership is committed to building a new core and contending again. How could a coach want to leave the most storied franchise in the NBA, even if it means helping rebuild?
Does Doc look bad if he bolts for Los Angeles to contend with Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and whoever else?

PleaseBeNice
06-16-2013, 05:02 PM
It's only bad if you're name is LeBron.

LTBaByyy
06-16-2013, 05:15 PM
Pop
Doc
Spoelstra
Carlisle

Are the only coaches that have been with the same team atleast 5 years.

Doc should always want to be a Celtics coach for a long time

He can be the USA Olympics team if he wants to coach other stars

ManRam
06-16-2013, 05:20 PM
I'm not sure it makes him look terrible...but it certainly doesn't make him look good. Since it's Doc, and he's very well-liked by just about everyone, especially the media, I don't think people will make much of a story about it.

xxplayerxx23
06-16-2013, 05:20 PM
Pop
Doc
Spoelstra
Carlisle

Are the only coaches that have been with the same team atleast 5 years.

Doc should always want to be a Celtics coach for a long time

He can be the USA Olympics team if he wants to coach other stars

Why should he? He won one and went to another one. He didnt demand out. He had one year left on his contract and if the celtics allow him to talk to the clippers why is that a bad thing? Why should he stick with a team that's ganna rebuild? This would prob be his last year with the Cs anyway

Green_Monster
06-16-2013, 05:22 PM
Didn't he already say he would stay with the Celtics if this trade didn't work out? Why is it such a big deal?

sunsfan88
06-16-2013, 05:48 PM
He's been with the Celtics through highs and lows, he deserves the right to go where he wants. It's a very unclassy move by Ainge if he doesn't let Doc do whatever the hell he wants...Doc's earned it.

ManRam
06-16-2013, 05:52 PM
He's been with the Celtics through highs and lows, he deserves the right to go where he wants. It's a very unclassy move by Ainge if he doesn't let Doc do whatever the hell he wants...Doc's earned it.

I disagree. Doc signed a contract. If Ainge wants him to honor it, well, there's nothing "unclassy" about that. Doc signed it just over a year ago too...

Lake_Show2416
06-16-2013, 06:01 PM
not at all, i bet its not easy dealing with Danny Ainge & him shopping every player during the year

SportsFanatic10
06-16-2013, 06:05 PM
it makes him look bad a little, looking for the exit once your team's championship window has closed isn't exactly the most honorable thing to do while still under contract. i don't think it's really a big deal though.

Manimal
06-16-2013, 06:09 PM
He signed a 5 year deal and now wants to bolt. Yup all class from Doc.

PhillyFaninLA
06-16-2013, 06:14 PM
deleted....I had bad facts

2-ONE-5
06-16-2013, 06:23 PM
yes he does. Bill Simmons said it best earlier that hes getting a pass bcuz the media loves him

BoSox47
06-16-2013, 06:37 PM
phil jackson left his team after winning championships, did that make him look bad

D-Leethal
06-16-2013, 06:42 PM
Doc made a 5 year commitment knowing damn well those 5 years were going to involve a rebuild and departure of KG and Paul be it trade, buyout, or retirement. I think it will make him look bad given he just signed the 5 year contract and recommitted to the Cs long term just a year ago. If he was in the final years of his contract it would be another story.

He would look every bit a confused idiot that Dwight Howard was after picking up his option than crying about it months later, or Isiah was when he signed Larry Brown to a massive contract for 5 years and fired him after year 1. Doc just isn't going to embarrass himself every time he opens his mouth publicly to fuel the fire, and like many here already stated, he is in good graces with the media.

IndyRealist
06-16-2013, 06:59 PM
Going forward, assuming KG and Pierce go, they have under contract:
Rondo/Bradley
Terry/Lee/Crawford
Green/Williams
Bass/Sullinger
Melo

If they bring in a center or two (Dalembert is available), they have a pretty decent roster. They have decent perimeter defenders, lots of ballhandling, scoring from Terry/Green/Bass/Sullinger. With a good defensive center they could be a .500+ team and in the playoffs.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-16-2013, 07:03 PM
People will think bad of him, but those people will probably have a faulty logic.

Minimal
06-16-2013, 07:04 PM
Absolutely not. He stayed in Boston for quite some time, won a championship, proved to be a really great coach. The change is always good, besides who wouldn't want to live in LA?

D-Leethal
06-16-2013, 07:08 PM
Absolutely not. He stayed in Boston for quite some time, won a championship, proved to be a really great coach. The change is always good, besides who wouldn't want to live in LA?

So there is absolutely no problem with making a 5 year commitment knowing damn well what the plan is, and than bolt 1 year into it once the wheels on the plan start to turn and you no longer like what you signed up for?

Doc owes Boston every bit as much as Boston owes Doc. They revived his coachign career after being fired in Orlando and gave him 3 HOFers to cement his coaching legacy when he was close to being a journeyman coach.

Minimal
06-16-2013, 07:30 PM
So there is absolutely no problem with making a 5 year commitment knowing damn well what the plan is, and than bolt 1 year into it once the wheels on the plan start to turn and you no longer like what you signed up for?

Doc owes Boston every bit as much as Boston owes Doc. They revived his coachign career after being fired in Orlando and gave him 3 HOFers to cement his coaching legacy when he was close to being a journeyman coach.
Boston helped Doc, Doc helped Boston, I think Doc was a perfect fit to coach the big 3 and I really doubt they would have won a chip without him. Boston went into rebuilding the team, they are not gonna be contenders, maybe even not a playoff team for some years. Doc worked hard on his coaching and proved to be a great coach, commited to Boston for almost 10 years and I don't really see a problem for him to try something different now. Its not like he is a Boston slave now and has to stay in Boston forever, right?

Ill21
06-16-2013, 07:45 PM
I disagree. Doc signed a contract. If Ainge wants him to honor it, well, there's nothing "unclassy" about that. Doc signed it just over a year ago too...

This. He knew what the team would look like in a few years

D-Leethal
06-16-2013, 07:51 PM
Boston helped Doc, Doc helped Boston, I think Doc was a perfect fit to coach the big 3 and I really doubt they would have won a chip without him. Boston went into rebuilding the team, they are not gonna be contenders, maybe even not a playoff team for some years. Doc worked hard on his coaching and proved to be a great coach, commited to Boston for almost 10 years and I don't really see a problem for him to try something different now. Its not like he is a Boston slave now and has to stay in Boston forever, right?

No he's not a Boston slave, he just signed the largest 5 year coaching contract in the NBA to be part of the Boston rebuild and decided he wanted to walk out after year 1 so he can coach a better team. Unless being a man of your word and honoring the contract you negotiated for and signed yourself means nothing anymore than this is a dick move on Doc's part.

Minimal
06-16-2013, 08:03 PM
No he's not a Boston slave, he just signed the largest 5 year coaching contract in the NBA to be part of the Boston rebuild and decided he wanted to walk out after year 1 so he can coach a better team. Unless being a man of your word and honoring the contract you negotiated for and signed yourself means nothing anymore than this is a dick move on Doc's part.
Ok I didn't know about such a contract, my bad (Didn't even read the posts in the thread, now I see). If he did that, that definitely is not right than. You don't sign a 5 year contract and leave after 1 year, that is disrespectful to the team.

D-Leethal
06-16-2013, 08:11 PM
Ok I didn't know about such a contract, my bad (Didn't even read what was posted in the thread). If he did that, that definitely is not right than. You don't sign a 5 year contract and leave after 1 year, that is disrespectful to the team.

I think if Ainge sat down with Doc and they negotiated a fair buyout of his contract that both sides were happy with, and Doc had the full support of Ainge and the Celtics organization, it would sort of ease the hit his reputation would take. If Ainge wants to play hardball and say I want Doc to be the coach of the Celtics, IMO he has every right do that, and Doc would have to be a pro and honor that.

I think either way it makes him look bad in my eyes, and I agree with Bill Simmons that the damage is already done, and I find it hard to believe that Doc can walk back into that lockeroom after all this. I do think time heals all wounds and when you look back on Doc's Celtics coaching career, this will be an afterthought and the good times will far outweigh any drama that may ensue. I have a lot of respect for Doc as a coach and think he would be a great hire for any team, but this definitely is a knock on him.

Sly Guy
06-16-2013, 08:34 PM
I don't think we know enough of the facts to make this claim. Judging by the fact Garnett looks to be going with him, what I take away from the situation is that Celtics management wanted to go into full rebuild mode, whereas Rivers was sticking by his main guys in Pierce and Garnett, which would judge him as painfully loyal instead of a turncoat.

mrblisterdundee
06-16-2013, 08:40 PM
phil jackson left his team after winning championships, did that make him look bad

I think it did. You look better as a coach or a player sticking it out with the same team, provided that team's ownership and management is committed to winning. Even if you leave a rebuilding team as coach and join the front office to help rebuild the team, that's also pretty honorable.
Phil Jackson rode the Michael Jordan train as long as he could, then he jumped ship the moment things weren't perfect and rode the Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant train.
Red Auerbach, meanwhile, coached the Celtics from 1950 to 1966, retired from coaching and helped manage the team until his death in 2006. I could see Gregg Popovich doing the same thing with the Spurs, maybe even as soon as the Tim Duncan-era ends, although the Spurs already look to have a promising new core bridged to the past by Tony Parker.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-16-2013, 08:41 PM
Doesn't really make him look good, especially considering the fact that the Celtics stuck with him when they could have easily fired him and he signed a 5 year deal to become the highest paid coach in the league not that long ago.

joeym
06-16-2013, 08:47 PM
Doesn't really make him look good, especially considering the fact that the Celtics stuck with him when they could have easily fired him and he signed a 5 year deal to become the highest paid coach in the league not that long ago.


So if the Clippers trade does not go through and Rivers returns
to coach Boston...wouldn't that be a little awkward?

Kyben36
06-16-2013, 08:50 PM
I dont think so, first, its not as if he is just bolting, he cant, they would techincaly trade him meaning that it would be the celitics decision, and while he may have imput he cant force it. so its not really him.

if he was to go though and say he wanted to, I would not mind, truth is its clear the celtics are done and need the rebuild around rondo.

IndyRealist
06-17-2013, 06:11 AM
I dont think so, first, its not as if he is just bolting, he cant, they would techincaly trade him meaning that it would be the celitics decision, and while he may have imput he cant force it. so its not really him.

if he was to go though and say he wanted to, I would not mind, truth is its clear the celtics are done and need the rebuild around rondo.

You can't trade a coach. They are negotiating a release from his contract, not a trade.

My guess is that this is mutual. Doc doesn't want to rebuild and take a hit to his reputation, and Boston doesn't want to pay him $7M/yr to rebuild a team that's going to be mediocre no matter who the coach is.

jam
06-17-2013, 07:43 AM
Doc is a great coach IMO. I don't think of him as a brilliant x's and o's strategist; instead I think of him as a great manager of personalities.

How much of his team's success was due to his ability to manage big ego's and how much of it was due to the willingness of the players themselves to put their egos aside for the common good is hard to tell from an outsider's perspective.

I suppose his next gig will be most informative.

To be honest, the nba coaching carousel has become a bit of a joke, with winning coaches being fired left and right.

When will owners realize that it's the PLAYERS who get it done, whereas the primary job of the coaches is to get out of the way as best as possible?

JasonJohnHorn
06-17-2013, 08:00 AM
It's better to go out on your own terms than wait until you get fired. I think a lot of coaches have concern about their percentages and all-time wins. Like players they have a thought for their legacies.

The bottom line is that Boston's front office hasn't done a very good job of keeping this team competitive the way that the Spurs have. Pop has no reason to leave the Spurs because they've kept great pieces around him. Doc has done the best he could do with the roster he has, but Boston is about to go into re-building mode, if not this season, then certainly next season. They will be a lottery team and no coach with a rng on his resume wants to handle a rebuilding process. That is a situation for young, inexperienced coaches to prove themselves. Likewise, not team want to pay a coach 5 million to coach a rebuilding process. It just doesn't make sense.


And if your coach has lost his passion to coach the team... you don't want him around.

Boston had a great run, and now it is time to decide what to do to get back to contending. If they can get a team to take on Pierce and Garnett and remove some cap space in the process, get a new coach that is more affordable and look at moving up in the draft (maybe try to move Green) and then see what Rondo can do next year with the young guys they have (and maybe even look at moving him if they can get the right pieces back).


I don't anticipate that Ainge will have his job three seasons from now either.

RiceOnTheRun
06-17-2013, 08:15 AM
No by all means, he should go ahead. One less team to compete with in the Atlantic divison :)

Doc wants to be a contender, he's one of the top coaches in the league and if he thinks he's better off somewhere else, then so be it. He's not the first to do it anyways.

Pat Riley did it. Phil did it after MJ retired. Both arguably better and more influential coaches than he is so if you don't judge those two I don't see how you could judge Doc.

D-Leethal
06-17-2013, 09:09 AM
No by all means, he should go ahead. One less team to compete with in the Atlantic divison :)

Doc wants to be a contender, he's one of the top coaches in the league and if he thinks he's better off somewhere else, then so be it. He's not the first to do it anyways.

Pat Riley did it. Phil did it after MJ retired. Both arguably better and more influential coaches than he is so if you don't judge those two I don't see how you could judge Doc.

Did either of those guys sign a 5 year deal to become the highest paid coach in the league and leave the next season?

Apples and oranges, if Doc walked when his contract was up like many experts predicted he would, nobody would mind this at all.

RiceOnTheRun
06-17-2013, 09:41 AM
Did either of those guys sign a 5 year deal to become the highest paid coach in the league and leave the next season?

Apples and oranges, if Doc walked when his contract was up like many experts predicted he would, nobody would mind this at all.

You do have a point there. I'm a bit puzzled myself as to why he signed a 5 year contract. Boston's championship window comes crashing down the moment KG leaves them. They really only had 3 or so years left realistically.

I for one, would've never thought he'd leave the Celtics but hey, it's a business I suppose. Better for the Knicks so I won't complain.

D-Leethal
06-17-2013, 10:16 AM
You do have a point there. I'm a bit puzzled myself as to why he signed a 5 year contract. Boston's championship window comes crashing down the moment KG leaves them. They really only had 3 or so years left realistically.

I for one, would've never thought he'd leave the Celtics but hey, it's a business I suppose. Better for the Knicks so I won't complain.

I mean if Dwight gets lambasted for picking up a 1 year option and second guessing it months later, I think Doc should get the same for signing a 5 year deal and second guessing it a year later.

Aust
06-17-2013, 04:12 PM
I like Doc and I don't like saying this, but I think it kind of does make him look bad..

Man, I wish he was the Lakers coach lol. Big Doc fan

TrueFan420
06-17-2013, 04:36 PM
Agree with most it makes him look bad leaving one year into a new 5 year deal. He should have known better than to sign that deal with them. With that said its hard to blast him for the move if management went from the stance of winning to rebuilding and said we will let you leave if you don't wanna be apart of that. We will never know what really went down but it def doesn't look good.

JEDean89
06-17-2013, 04:37 PM
rondo's gotta be pretty pissed right now.

Snakeyestx
06-17-2013, 05:00 PM
In short, no. What this whole fiasco has done, was show him how little his input mattered at the conclusion of this season so if he can amicably walk away and take his "core" two players with him, so be it. (You know darn well Pierce would go if and when this deal is complete)

akesh99
06-17-2013, 05:24 PM
Why would the Celts wanna pay 7M for a vet HC to coach a sub .500 team? I think both parties want a fresh outlook. The trade is only going down because Doc has a non compete clause in his contract. The C's won't let him coach for any other organization without compensation. No it doesn't look bad that Pierce, Garnett and Doc are moving on. IMO it looks bad that the Celtics organization is pushing these guys out the door. I would be willing to bet money all three would love to retire in green.

teddygreen17
06-17-2013, 05:26 PM
Its probably mutual. Just Ainge ain't coming out saying it. I mean, it does make him look at little shallow especially since he just signed the extension last year (i think) for 5 years. But, whenever you are thinking about your legacy as Phil J. did, you don't want to rack up losses but of the org's decision. Doc is doing whats best for him, and remember, its called contracting, they are not loyal to owners who are loyal to dollars.

Sly Guy
06-17-2013, 05:34 PM
Why would the Celts wanna pay 7M for a vet HC to coach a sub .500 team? I think both parties want a fresh outlook. The trade is only going down because Doc has a non compete clause in his contract. The C's won't let him coach for any other organization without compensation. No it doesn't look bad that Pierce, Garnett and Doc are moving on. IMO it looks bad that the Celtics organization is pushing these guys out the door. I would be willing to bet money all three would love to retire in green.

well said.

You can't blame Doc for taking a 5-year deal the same way you can't blame any player for taking more money/years than they're worth. If the money's on the table you'd be stupid to turn it down. It's painfully obvious that boston's gonna have to reload, why would they not save money in the process? This kind of move speaks more about the c's organization than it does the players/coach involved.

soundjunkies2
06-17-2013, 05:35 PM
Does this mean Rando's gone? KG, Doc, and soon Pierce are all leaving town or do they build around him.

bagwell368
06-17-2013, 06:04 PM
It's widely believed in Boston (at least in my crowd/media) that DA talked Doc into signing the contract to help attract/keep players on the C's since Doc is so popular with players - because Doc is a Florida guy and didn't really want to re-up for so long.

You'll notice that most Coaches in the history of the NBA that leave for other teams are generally well respected and successful. So yeah, I hate Doc because he's well respected and successful, and can call his own tune. As if every working person reading this wouldn't take that situation as opposed to an "at will" wage slave in constant fear of getting canned and serious doubts about being able to get a similar job in the future.

/whiners suck

bagwell368
06-17-2013, 06:08 PM
Does this mean Rando's gone? KG, Doc, and soon Pierce are all leaving town or do they build around him.

As the reigning Celtic fan on PSD (in terms of years), I dearly hope he's proven healthy and dealt at the deadline (or earlier) next year. He's not a leader in any sense of the word, and they can tank faster if they deal him ASAP.

bagwell368
06-17-2013, 06:09 PM
rondo's gotta be pretty pissed right now.

He's pissed on a daily basis, due to intense emotional instability.

Odominator
06-17-2013, 06:22 PM
no because he delivered a chip to boston. however, lebron......

RaiderLakersA's
06-17-2013, 06:28 PM
I know the consensus is that Doc is a great coach. But in my experience, there are two kinds of head coaches:

1. The kind that can develop young talent into great players. (ex., Popovich and Jerry Sloan)
2. The kind whose real mastery is working veteran players into championship timbre. (Phil Jackson, Pat Riley)

I'm inclined to place Doc in the second group.

If that's the case, then whether or not Doc should move on hinges on the type of rebuild that Ainge has in mind. If he's looking to rebuild mostly through the draft, then Ainge is better off letting Doc go to LA for picks and whatever else that he can get.

But if he intends to re-tool through free agency, bringing in vet superstars to replace KG and Pierce, then you have to keep Doc. I doubt that Ainge will go the vet route, simply because he no longer has any former Celtics buddies around the league willing to help gift him with a Big Three. :)

RaiderLakersA's
06-17-2013, 06:30 PM
He's pissed on a daily basis, due to intense emotional instability.

The Green Goblin will be fine. He didn't always get along with Doc, KG, Ray Ray or the others, so I'm sure he's willing to take whatever comes. At this point he probably just wants to play ball.

sammyvine
06-17-2013, 06:38 PM
He's pissed on a daily basis, due to intense emotional instability.

do you know him on that level?

sammyvine
06-17-2013, 06:40 PM
As the reigning Celtic fan on PSD (in terms of years), I dearly hope he's proven healthy and dealt at the deadline (or earlier) next year. He's not a leader in any sense of the word, and they can tank faster if they deal him ASAP.

lol good luck with the getting rid of rondo
celtics will be a lottery team without him especially with kg and pierce gone.
it will be hilarious if rondo went to a team like the pacers

mrblisterdundee
06-18-2013, 02:02 AM
I know the consensus is that Doc is a great coach. But in my experience, there are two kinds of head coaches:

1. The kind that can develop young talent into great players. (ex., Popovich and Jerry Sloan)
2. The kind whose real mastery is working veteran players into championship timbre. (Phil Jackson, Pat Riley)

I disagree. Combine those two kinds of coaches and you get someone like Red Auerbach. He developed the talent in Boston, led it to many championships, retired, joined the team as general manager, helped it find and develop more talent and helped it win more championships in the 1980s. That's why he's better than the guys you listed in Option 2.

torocan
06-18-2013, 08:18 AM
With Boston headed towards a rebuild, I don't blame Doc one bit.

You don't ask a Formula 1 driver to chauffeur your kids to the convenience store.

And you don't ask Doc Rivers to oversee a team rebuild. There's lots of great coaches that can do that just as well if not better.

Asking Rivers to rebuild the Celtics is a waste of time and money for both parties. The Celtics can get it done just as effectively for far less money. And Rivers talents and skills would be wasted on a bunch of rookies.

If you love Doc Rivers set him free. When the Celtics are ready to contend again, ask him to come back.

Sportfan
06-18-2013, 08:58 AM
Nope. Doc should look bad for tampering and telling the Clippers FO not to trade Bledsoe though.

PurpleJesus
06-18-2013, 09:10 AM
Would Doc be bolting, or getting traded?

Greedy22
06-18-2013, 09:45 AM
I don't think it does. He wants to stick with Garnett and Pierce.

Also, Phil didn't bolt out of Chicago.. The GM hated him and wasn't bringing him back even if they went undefeated.