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RLundi
06-14-2013, 01:50 AM
Even I said he looked done. He looked old, unathletic and his jumpshot looked broken. Then he goes and puts up 32 points, 6 rebounds, 6 steals and 4 assists in one of the biggest games of the year.

In the game, the announcers were talking about Wade willingly sacrificing and taking a backseat. I didn't buy it, I thought he was declining. But maybe he is just taking a backseat to LeBron for the sake of the team.

So is Wade declining? Or just sacrificing? Is he still the best SG in the league?

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 01:52 AM
1 good game =wade is back?

No where near the best sg, but certainly top 5

Jtirado16
06-14-2013, 01:53 AM
He never was the best SG in the league...

But its a little bit of both. Part of it is he knows its Lebrons time & he knows he needa to let him take over this team

But the other part is thar he is old & declining with the injuries. Its not as bad as people think though.

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 01:54 AM
He never was the best SG in the league...

But its a little bit of both. Part of it is he knows its Lebrons time & he knows he needa to let him take over this team

But the other part is thar he is old & declining with the injuries. Its not as bad as people think though.

Yea, he was never the best, was always a top 2 sg

Just like tmac

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 01:54 AM
he's declined a little, but he's still the best SG when healthy. the problem now is he just isn't healthy very much lately. and playing with lebron hurts his game. he's playing in alot of pain right now and hasn't been very good for the most part these playoffs, but when the heat need him he comes through, gutsy performance tonight from dwyane.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 01:56 AM
It's really hard to say. I think he's been like this for awhile though. This is not the first time Wade has proven people wrong after everyone said he was too injury prone, and done..

He just cant give it 82 games a year + playoffs anymore. His body won't let him.

I think he should be the Heat's 6th man. Still get 25-35 mins, but come of the bench.... I don't know if he has the modesty to be taken out of the starting rotation, but something needs to happen to help this man stay healthy.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 01:56 AM
I don't think Kobe will be Kobe next year, so the "best SG" moniker is wide-open. After Harden, there isn't really an elite SG that comes to mind.

Jtirado16
06-14-2013, 01:56 AM
he's declined a little, but he's still the best SG when healthy. the problem now is he just isn't healthy very much lately. he's playing in alot of pain right now and hasn't been very good for the most part these playoffs, but when the heat need him he comes through, gutsy performance tonight from dwyane.

You think when healthy he's better than Kobe... I don't even know if he's better than Harden.

I've always felt like he was overrated.

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 01:57 AM
he's declined a little, but he's still the best SG when healthy. the problem now is he just isn't healthy very much lately. he's playing in alot of pain right now and hasn't been very good for the most part these playoffs, but when the heat need him he comes through, gutsy performance tonight from dwyane.

Kobe, Harden, maybe wade?

The rest of the list is irrelevant because I'm sure it involves Joe Johnson and Monta Ellis at some point

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 01:57 AM
Defensively he was definitely a lot better than Kobe this year.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 01:58 AM
I feel like this season Kobe Vs. Wade is about even as far as performance.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 01:58 AM
Yea, he was never the best, was always a top 2 sg

Just like tmac

For a couple of seasons, he absolutely was better than Kobe. Last year I had Kobe as the best SG for the first time in a couple seasons.

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 01:58 AM
You think when healthy he's better than Kobe... I don't even know if he's better than Harden.

I've always felt like he was overrated.

absolutely

Lakers + Giants
06-14-2013, 01:59 AM
Like stu lantz says " 1 game doesn't take you out of a slump, 1 game doesn't put you in a slump."

Jarvo
06-14-2013, 02:00 AM
Wade is one of my fav players EVER! But no way he's better than Kobe.

Jtirado16
06-14-2013, 02:00 AM
You think when healthy he's better than Kobe... I don't even know if he's better than Harden.

I've always felt like he was overrated.

absolutely

That's absolutely ABSURD!! Kobe is top 5 greatest players of all time!! Wade is barely top 15. No where near the same player

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 02:01 AM
Even I said he looked done. He looked old, unathletic and his jumpshot looked broken. Then he goes and puts up 32 points, 6 rebounds, 6 steals and 4 assists in one of the biggest games of the year.

In the game, the announcers were talking about Wade willingly sacrificing and taking a backseat. I didn't buy it, I thought he was declining. But maybe he is just taking a backseat to LeBron for the sake of the team.

So is Wade declining? Or just sacrificing? Is he still the best SG in the league?

Backseat? I don't get it.. He played great in the regular season and is struggling in the playoffs. He's just injured.

LayBraun
06-14-2013, 02:02 AM
It has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron. LeBron and Wade have shown numerous numerous times that they can play ball effectively together. They've went over 20 together probably more times then they haven't. Dwayne wade has simply been hurt and he's been playing terribly. Tonight his jumpshot was on and he was able to attack the basket to create some easy buckets. Let me just say that's its about damn time

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 02:02 AM
That's absolutely ABSURD!! Kobe is top 5 greatest players of all time!! Wade is barely top 15. No where near the same player

Kobe is top 5 because of his achievements. If you're talking Kobe's best season vs Wade's, Wade's 08-09 season was monstrous.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 02:02 AM
That's absolutely ABSURD!! Kobe is top 5 greatest players of all time!! Wade is barely top 15. No where near the same player

We're not talking career-wise, but recently (this season notwithstanding) Wade has been better than Kobe for at least 2 seasons.

LayBraun
06-14-2013, 02:03 AM
Backseat? I don't get it.. He played great in the regular season and is struggling in the playoffs. He's just injured.

Lol exactly. Here's the other thing; what about last year?

They won the fricken finals. Did wade play nearly as bad as he has been? No. Right now I think wade has been averaging 14 per during this postseason lol I mean come on that's all on him

Jtirado16
06-14-2013, 02:04 AM
We're not talking career-wise, but recently (this season notwithstanding) Wade has been better than Kobe for at least 2 seasons.[/QUOTE]

Not even in the last two seasons... Kobe still has better numbers

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 02:07 AM
We're not talking career-wise, but recently (this season notwithstanding) Wade has been better than Kobe for at least 2 seasons.

Not even in the last two seasons... Kobe still has better numbers[/QUOTE]

No to mention a heavier load to carry. He doesn't have the ability to coast to 50% fg or whatever wade has averaged since playing with lebron

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 02:08 AM
Backseat? I don't get it.. He played great in the regular season and is struggling in the playoffs. He's just injured.

Lol exactly. Here's the other thing; what about last year?

They won the fricken finals. Did wade play nearly as bad as he has been? No. Right now I think wade has been averaging 14 per during this postseason lol I mean come on that's all on him

We saw the last of what was left of prime dwade against the mavericks when he went nuts and they lost the finals to them. Since then it's been injured/idgaf wade

Pakman
06-14-2013, 02:10 AM
You think when healthy he's better than Kobe... I don't even know if he's better than Harden.

I've always felt like he was overrated.

absolutelyI love a good troll. Now please escort yourself out of this thread for good. No need for ridiculous remarks. You couldn't be more further from the truth

rex.reyesiii
06-14-2013, 02:10 AM
Even I said he looked done. He looked old, unathletic and his jumpshot looked broken. Then he goes and puts up 32 points, 6 rebounds, 6 steals and 4 assists in one of the biggest games of the year.

In the game, the announcers were talking about Wade willingly sacrificing and taking a backseat. I didn't buy it, I thought he was declining. But maybe he is just taking a backseat to LeBron for the sake of the team.

So is Wade declining? Or just sacrificing? Is he still the best SG in the league?

Its a bit of both. I say 30% Declining, 70% Sacrificing.

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 02:12 AM
He will look nice ending his career playing next to rose in a few seasons

RLundi
06-14-2013, 02:13 AM
We're not talking career-wise, but recently (this season notwithstanding) Wade has been better than Kobe for at least 2 seasons.

Not even in the last two seasons... Kobe still has better numbers[/QUOTE]

Nah. Except for scoring, Wade has Kobe beat in nearly every single statistical category. And from 2008-2010 Wade was clearly better. He had more win shares, higher WS/48 and a higher PER.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 02:15 AM
Not even in the last two seasons... Kobe still has better numbers

No to mention a heavier load to carry. He doesn't have the ability to coast to 50% fg or whatever wade has averaged since playing with lebron[/QUOTE]

Even in the seasons without LeBron, Wade's percentage from the floor, eFG and TS% were all much higher than Kobe's.

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 02:16 AM
We're not talking career-wise, but recently (this season notwithstanding) Wade has been better than Kobe for at least 2 seasons.

Not even in the last two seasons... Kobe still has better numbers

Nah. Except for scoring, Wade has Kobe beat in nearly every single statistical category. And from 2008-2010 Wade was clearly better. He had more win shares, higher WS/48 and a higher PER.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't his second best player a beaten up washed up Jermaine O'Neal or something from 2008-2010?

Not hard getting win shares when ur second best player is a wet blanket

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 02:17 AM
Not even in the last two seasons... Kobe still has better numbers

No to mention a heavier load to carry. He doesn't have the ability to coast to 50% fg or whatever wade has averaged since playing with lebron

Even in the seasons without LeBron, Wade's percentage from the floor, eFG and TS% were all much higher than Kobe's.[/QUOTE]


I'm sure pace of play, amount of possessions and stuff like that played a role in some of this, when u compare the style of the Lakers to that of the heat when wade was the man

Jtirado16
06-14-2013, 02:18 AM
You think when healthy he's better than Kobe... I don't even know if he's better than Harden.

I've always felt like he was overrated.

absolutelyI love a good troll. Now please escort yourself out of this thread for good. No need for ridiculous remarks. You couldn't be more further from the truth

How am I trolling? I'm giving my honest opinion.. I don't think Wade is better than Kobe healthy or not, it wouldn't make a difference..

You can excuse your attitude & your know it all self from trying to call people out when its just an opinion.

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 02:24 AM
That's absolutely ABSURD!! Kobe is top 5 greatest players of all time!! Wade is barely top 15. No where near the same player

i said when healthy i think wade is better then kobe. i didn't say wade has had a better career than kobe.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 02:25 AM
Nah. Except for scoring, Wade has Kobe beat in nearly every single statistical category. And from 2008-2010 Wade was clearly better. He had more win shares, higher WS/48 and a higher PER.

Wasn't his second best player a beaten up washed up Jermaine O'Neal or something from 2008-2010?

Not hard getting win shares when ur second best player is a wet blanket[/QUOTE]

That would make it even more impressive he was able to lead that team to an average of 48 wins with such a weak supporting cast.

rex.reyesiii
06-14-2013, 02:26 AM
LOL at these threads :D

Its either Lebron vs. Kobe or Wade vs. Kobe :)

My thought on that is, even Wade thinks Kobe is better than him. Can't find my source at the moment though.

So that's that.

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 02:27 AM
I love a good troll. Now please escort yourself out of this thread for good. No need for ridiculous remarks. You couldn't be more further from the truth

you can think what you like, doesn't change the facts.

naps
06-14-2013, 02:29 AM
Clearly he has been injured. His knees are banged up. We won't know now but I am sure we'll hear how many injections/knee procedures he took tonight after the series is over. When healthy he's the finest SG on the planet and has been one since 2008 olympics.

Jtirado16
06-14-2013, 02:32 AM
LOL at these threads :D

Its either Lebron vs. Kobe or Wade vs. Kobe :)

My thought on that is, even Wade thinks Kobe is better than him. Can't find my source at the moment though.

So that's that.

Thank you! If Kobe wasn't so great why does everyone want to compare a certain player to him.

Kobe takes more hate here than Lebron

cmellofan15
06-14-2013, 02:39 AM
Thank you! If Kobe wasn't so great why does everyone want to compare a certain player to him.

Kobe takes more hate here than Lebron

I'd have to disagree with that. Kobe is only brought by Laker fans or those trying to dispute Lakers fans on here because 9/10 Lakers fans on this site bash LeBron on a constant basis

RLundi
06-14-2013, 02:43 AM
Thank you! If Kobe wasn't so great why does everyone want to compare a certain player to him.

Kobe takes more hate here than Lebron

No one is saying Kobe isn't great. Based on last season he's probably still a top 5 player. Idk you're a numbers guy, but advanced metrics prove Wade has been better than Kobe for at least a few seasons.

giants73756
06-14-2013, 02:44 AM
Is 6 rebounds and 4 assists supposed to be good?

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 03:09 AM
Is 6 rebounds and 4 assists supposed to be good?

It's his efficiency. Also, his defense was amazing tonight. If Wade played half as good as he did this game for the series, Miami would be tearing it.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 03:09 AM
That's absolutely ABSURD!! Kobe is top 5 greatest players of all time!! Wade is barely top 15. No where near the same player

On what planet is Kobe Bryant remotely close to top 5? What statistic in any way supports this absurd statement?

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 03:10 AM
On what planet is Kobe Bryant remotely close to top 5? What statistic in any way supports this absurd statement?

What makes Magic and Bird top 5?

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 03:12 AM
Seriously I'll match any record he has with a bad one. I'll match any game he takes over with a game he completely utterly fails. I'll compare stats. I'll compare MVP's. I'll compare Finals MVP's.

Only argument people ever have is rings. Which is a fail. Rings are a team effort. If all you care about is rings than Robert Horry is better than Kobe and MJ.

There is no argument that supports the statement "Kobe is a top 5 player all time".

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 03:15 AM
Seriously I'll match any record he has with a bad one. I'll match any game he takes over with a game he completely utterly fails. I'll compare stats. I'll compare MVP's. I'll compare Finals MVP's.

Only argument people ever have is rings. Which is a fail. Rings are a team effort. If all you care about is rings than Robert Horry is better than Kobe and MJ.

There is no argument that supports the statement "Kobe is a top 5 player all time".

If you're judging it off accolades, Kobe is easily top 5. What he has accomplished for his career is astonishing. In terms of top 5, I can name 5 players I'd rather have.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 03:18 AM
If you're judging it off accolades, Kobe is easily top 5. What he has accomplished for his career is astonishing. In terms of top 5, I can name 5 players I'd rather have.

What has he accomplished. Defensive first teams that he arguably didn't deserve at a position that isn't known at all for defense. 1 MVP. 2 finals MVP's. Scoring titles? Don't you dare say rings. Last I check they didn't put "Kobe Bryant" on any of the Championships.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 03:22 AM
If you're judging it off accolades, Kobe is easily top 5. What he has accomplished for his career is astonishing. In terms of top 5, I can name 5 players I'd rather have.

Well yeah, but if you're judging off of just accolades than you're making a completely different list, and if we're judging by accolades who is the greatest player wouldn't MVP be the best individual award? Why would rings count toward how good a player is individually? Doesn't make much sense does it?

Edit: I know I replied to that twice, but I kind of missed what you had said the first time.

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 03:26 AM
Well yeah, but if you're judging off of just accolades than you're making a completely different list, and if we're judging by accolades who is the greatest player wouldn't MVP be the best individual award? Why would rings count toward how good a player is individually? Doesn't make much sense does it?

Edit: I know I replied to that twice, but I kind of missed what you had said the first time.

Well, everyone judges off accolades now. Player wise, Jordan and LeBron are probably the two greatest players. I don't think rings should count but if that's how society judges it, that's how I'll abide.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 03:36 AM
Well, everyone judges off accolades now. Player wise, Jordan and LeBron are probably the two greatest players. I don't think rings should count but if that's how society judges it, that's how I'll abide.

Yeah but you're smarter than that.

Ask those people if any of the true top 15 players in NBA history had Shaq for most of Shaq's prime, and give him the greatest sports coach of all time. Then see how many rings that player wins (and take whoever that player is out of Jordan's era). When you put in context Kobe really isn't anywhere close to a top 5, and it's straight laughable to even put him there. The only players that are in that conversation in the NBA today are LBJ, and Tim Duncan.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 03:37 AM
Lets see Kobe do something without the triangle offense for once in his career. Because he literally hasn't won **** without it.

macc
06-14-2013, 03:49 AM
It's a very simple thing. Wade is playing injured. He's not 100%, he's not even close. A guy doesn't decline that fast. Once he is healthy he'll be back to being Wade. This isn't rocket science gents. It's very easy to see that he is injured and not playing at the level he was mid way through the season. thread/

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 04:06 AM
It's a very simple thing. Wade is playing injured. He's not 100%, he's not even close. A guy doesn't decline that fast. Once he is healthy he'll be back to being Wade. This isn't rocket science gents. It's very easy to see that he is injured and not playing at the level he was mid way through the season. thread/

Wade has been injured since last year. His knee has been hurting him for quite some time now. IMO, Wade should take a paycut, sit out for as long as he needs, and recover.

Bullsfan22
06-14-2013, 04:25 AM
I never doubted that Wade willingly took the backseat. I questioned if Wade brought too much of a good cushion and enjoyed it a tad too much.

jam
06-14-2013, 04:25 AM
He's had multiple knee surgeries and is on the 'other' side of 30. HHe can't dominate on the basis of his athleticism anymore. His knees aren't as far gone as garnett (who reportedly requires 1-2 hours of treatment before each game), but he's at the point where his knees aren't getting any better, either.

ArmLaker
06-14-2013, 04:27 AM
Kobe is top 5 because of his achievements. If you're talking Kobe's best season vs Wade's, Wade's 08-09 season was monstrous.

Are you seriously implying that his 08-09 year was better than Kobe's 05-06, 06-07, all the way to '10 years? SERIOUSLY? Does your hate for Bryant and Wade homerism not allow you to see that Kobe has ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS been better than Wade? At least I would understand if you were making a case for LeBron but I mean Wade? Seriously? With all this being said, great performance by him tonight, really impressed me.

ArmLaker
06-14-2013, 04:36 AM
People people, in the end its all about winning. You can pad your stats or try to be "efficient" but what good does it do if you don't win the one thing players sweat and bleed for? How does that define you as a better player than the rest if you don't WIN? That's like a doctor saying "we performed the surgery very well, but the patient died". Numbers are nice obviously but if rings aren't the standard to use in a player's individual greatness, then what is? MVPs? Wilt and West and all those guys had a **** ton of MVPs but only a ring and sometimes NONE at all. Nowadays that award is just a popularity contest anyways so it loses credibility for me. FINALS MVPs are the only thing that matters individually if you wanna bring that point up otherwise, fvck stats if you got nothing to show for it.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 04:38 AM
Are you seriously implying that his 08-09 year was better than Kobe's 05-06, 06-07, all the way to '10 years? SERIOUSLY? Does your hate for Bryant and Wade homerism not allow you to see that Kobe has ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS been better than Wade? At least I would understand if you were making a case for LeBron but I mean Wade? Seriously? With all this being said, great performance by him tonight, really impressed me.

Wade is better in the finals than Bryant. Boom roasted...

Bryant definitely is better career wise, but Wade has had some pretty prestigious seasons/series in his career. Even if he's not consistent anymore you can't take away how good he really can be, and to say that Kobe is that far above Wade is blasphemy IMO. Kobe has longevity though, and that counts for a lot.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 04:40 AM
People people, in the end its all about winning. You can pad your stats or try to be "efficient" but what good does it do if you don't win the one thing players sweat and bleed for? How does that define you as a better player than the rest if you don't WIN? That's like a doctor saying "we performed the surgery very well, but the patient died". Numbers are nice obviously but if rings aren't the standard to use in a player's individual greatness, then what is? MVPs? Wilt and West and all those guys had a **** ton of MVPs but only a ring and sometimes NONE at all. Nowadays that award is just a popularity contest anyways so it loses credibility for me. FINALS MVPs are the only thing that matters individually if you wanna bring that point up otherwise, fvck stats if you got nothing to show for it.

That is the worst analogy I've ever heard, and go watch tennis. We're talking basketball which I believe has more than one player on a team. The best players in the NBA have not always won the chip. FACT!

ArmLaker
06-14-2013, 04:42 AM
Wade is better in the finals than Bryant. Boom roasted...

Bryant definitely is better career wise, but Wade has had some pretty prestigious seasons/series in his career. Even if he's not consistent anymore you can't take away how good he really can be, and to say that Kobe is that far above Wade is blasphemy IMO. Kobe has longevity though, and that counts for a lot.

Then what standard do YOU use to realize which player is better or not? Right now I can assure you that Kobe at his best blows Wade outta the water at his best. Career wise its not even close either. Kobe is better than Wade at virtually everything except slashing to the basket and risking his health even more. Kobe is so much better than Wade in the finals that he's been there 7 times in his career taking home 5 of them. Wade has been there 4 times now and in my opinion will have 2 of them. Your argument is invalid.

ArmLaker
06-14-2013, 04:44 AM
If you actually understood the analogy you wouldn't call it the worst but you seem like a Kobe hater/not even a Wade homer. So if it's not about only 1 player, why spend so much time comparing the two? Let's start comparing who had the better teammates instead? Pick something and stick to it because when the facts start coming in, don't hide from it next time.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 04:45 AM
So with that logic Bill Russell is the best player of all time. Followed by a bunch of Celtics. Robert Horry. Then some more Celtics. Kareem. Michael. Then Kobe? Man your GOAT list must be messed up.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 04:45 AM
If you actually understood the analogy you wouldn't call it the worst but you seem like a Kobe hater/not even a Wade homer. So if it's not about only 1 player, why spend so much time comparing the two? Let's start comparing who had the better teammates instead? Pick something and stick to it because when the facts start coming in, don't hide from it next time.

When are the facts going to start coming in?

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 04:46 AM
Then what standard do YOU use to realize which player is better or not? Right now I can assure you that Kobe at his best blows Wade outta the water at his best. Career wise its not even close either. Kobe is better than Wade at virtually everything except slashing to the basket and risking his health even more. Kobe is so much better than Wade in the finals that he's been there 7 times in his career taking home 5 of them. Wade has been there 4 times now and in my opinion will have 2 of them. Your argument is invalid.

I consider everything bud. I consider everything.

Bet I just blew your ****in mind!

ArmLaker
06-14-2013, 04:52 AM
When are the facts going to start coming in?

When you stop running away from them. Bill Russell played in a different time and era where NONE of us watched him or any of those guys so it would be hard to include him in a top 5-10 for me even. Robert Horry was and will always be remembered as a role player and we all know that so at least think before you include a random name with a list of legends. My GOAT list would include the likes of MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, Kareem, TD, Bird, etc. You get the picture?

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 04:59 AM
When you stop running away from them. Bill Russell played in a different time and era where NONE of us watched him or any of those guys so it would be hard to include him in a top 5-10 for me even. Robert Horry was and will always be remembered as a role player and we all know that so at least think before you include a random name with a list of legends. My GOAT list would include the likes of MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, Kareem, TD, Bird, etc. You get the picture?

There is no picture. You have a double standard. Why does Bird's era count, but not Russell's? Why do rings only matter based on the era? Why aren't coaches considered? I don't understand how you can be so closed minded to say these are the players that deserve the respect because of the rings "they" won. Kobe is a great player. Very few people deny that. He's not an elite defender though. He was never really considered the best player in the NBA at any point of his career. He had some of the greatest supporting casts with on of the most dominating centers to ever play the game. How does none of this fall into play. If only the context you care about matters then I really don't care about your list. I wouldn't expect a Kobe fan to understand how rings take teams. Not players.

A Black Prophet
06-14-2013, 05:02 AM
He's had multiple knee surgeries and is on the 'other' side of 30. HHe can't dominate on the basis of his athleticism anymore. His knees aren't as far gone as garnett (who reportedly requires 1-2 hours of treatment before each game), but he's at the point where his knees aren't getting any better, either.

i think its much deeper then that yea its because of injuries but if you look at how he plays he plays like he is still 25 he needs to change his game and develop a better jump shot if hewas a better shooter things would be much easier

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 05:02 AM
Phil Jackson is 50 percent the reason for Kobe's rings, and Shaq is probably 30. Kobe will never, and could never win a ring without one of these 2 components.

ArmLaker
06-14-2013, 05:06 AM
There is no picture. You have a double standard. Why does Bird's era count, but not Russell's? Why do rings only matter based on the era? Why aren't coaches considered? I don't understand how you can be so closed minded to say these are the players that deserve the respect because of the rings "they" won. Kobe is a great player. Very few people deny that. He's not an elite defender though. He was never really considered the best player in the NBA at any point of his career. He had some of the greatest supporting casts with on of the most dominating centers to ever play the game. How does none of this fall into play. If only the context you care about matters then I really don't care about your list. I wouldn't expect a Kobe fan to understand how rings take teams. Not players.

I haven't seen enough footage or games from the 60s if I don't really have guys on my list that none of us have ever seen at this point so forgive me. Kobe is the best player, the best since the GOAT. He was never considered the best by WHO? who waved his/her magic wand and said "you'll never be the best at one point in your career"? did you make that up? Because looking at his play, his skill, his IQ, his hunger its unmatched. He had a great center? Great, he made the best of it like all the true greats would and have done. Jordan had Pippen and Phil as well, but does it not count? Yes it does. Rings are a team accomplishment, yes, but let's not take the credibility away from the players for winning them. Without great players you will never win a ring so don't say it as if it's just a "team" accomplishment and make it sound like any team can walk up and win a damn ring.

amos1er
06-14-2013, 05:06 AM
Wade was the MVP of tonights game. The only reason Lebron had 33 points was because he scored 9 of them in garbage time when the game was already won. Wade is a very good friend to Lebron to win the game for him and then let him pad his stats and the end to make it look like he was the alpha. What a stand up guy. Lebron should buy him a steak dinner every night for the next year.

ArmLaker
06-14-2013, 05:08 AM
Phil Jackson is 50 percent the reason for Kobe's rings, and Shaq is probably 30. Kobe will never, and could never win a ring without one of these 2 components.

But it's a team thing. Kobe is responsible for almost half of Phil's and 3/4 of Shaq's rings. Take Kobe outta the equation, Shaq nor Phil don't win anything

c.c.
06-14-2013, 05:09 AM
So is Wade declining? Or just sacrificing? Is he still the best SG in the league?

Declining or sacrificing? I think a little of both. Best SG in the league, definitely not

sammyvine
06-14-2013, 05:09 AM
he cant just show up once ever 5 games with high level performances.
he is overrated as well

A Black Prophet
06-14-2013, 05:16 AM
People people, in the end its all about winning. You can pad your stats or try to be "efficient" but what good does it do if you don't win the one thing players sweat and bleed for? How does that define you as a better player than the rest if you don't WIN? That's like a doctor saying "we performed the surgery very well, but the patient died". Numbers are nice obviously but if rings aren't the standard to use in a player's individual greatness, then what is? MVPs? Wilt and West and all those guys had a **** ton of MVPs but only a ring and sometimes NONE at all. Nowadays that award is just a popularity contest anyways so it loses credibility for me. FINALS MVPs are the only thing that matters individually if you wanna bring that point up otherwise, fvck stats if you got nothing to show for it.

ummmmm wilt has 2 rings and 1 finals mvp and he is a top 5 its not all bout winning with that logic shaq >hakeem and hakem was the better defender and offensive player russle has more rings then kareem but is he better then kareem duncan has mor fmvps then karem and wilt is he better then both

A Black Prophet
06-14-2013, 05:21 AM
When you stop running away from them. Bill Russell played in a different time and era where NONE of us watched him or any of those guys so it would be hard to include him in a top 5-10 for me even. Robert Horry was and will always be remembered as a role player and we all know that so at least think before you include a random name with a list of legends. My GOAT list would include the likes of MJ, Kobe, Magic, Shaq, Kareem, TD, Bird, etc. You get the picture?

That logic is flawed just because we dint ee russle play or wilt play means they shouldnt be top 5 or 10 players so that means present players are the only players that can be considered top 5 :mad:

A Black Prophet
06-14-2013, 05:22 AM
But it's a team thing. Kobe is responsible for almost half of Phil's and 3/4 of Shaq's rings. Take Kobe outta the equation, Shaq nor Phil don't win anything

put lebron on the same laker team they win 4 in a row see how that works

RLundi
06-14-2013, 09:54 AM
Phil Jackson is 50 percent the reason for Kobe's rings, and Shaq is probably 30. Kobe will never, and could never win a ring without one of these 2 components.

Is Phil half the reason Jordan won too?

RLundi
06-14-2013, 09:55 AM
Declining or sacrificing? I think a little of both. Best SG in the league, definitely not

So then who is at present?

BigCityofDreams
06-14-2013, 09:59 AM
Wade turned back the clock last night. But what it shows me is that he's been dogging it the whole time.

strahan92osi72
06-14-2013, 10:49 AM
The fact that this thread is made when he has a great night proves the point that his decline is not exaggerated at all. Sure, he looked great last night and sure there will be times when he resembles the Wade of old, but the fact is he's very much a declining star who's going to have less and less nights like last night. If he had that game 3 or 4 years ago it would have been just another night at the office, not thread worthy, now whenever he has a great game it's a big deal. Kinda answered your own question by making this thread.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2013, 11:05 AM
Let him show it again before I buy into it. He has been very un-Flash like the entire playoffs. One game isn't changing my opinion. Hell, 3 more probably won't. His style of play throughout his career was going to lead to a decline, due to injury, or wear and tear. He had a great regular season because he was managed correctly, game/minute wise, but he has really struggled this postseason.

JC_
06-14-2013, 11:23 AM
Let him show it again before I buy into it. He has been very un-Flash like the entire playoffs. One game isn't changing my opinion. Hell, 3 more probably won't. His style of play throughout his career was going to lead to a decline, due to injury, or wear and tear. He had a great regular season because he was managed correctly, game/minute wise, but he has really struggled this postseason.

I think one of the big reasons for the struggles is the Heat have had to play defensive teams that pack the paint. When they had Splitter on him yesterday, I think he realized that these guys aren't as quick as the Pacers or Bulls. These guys aren't anywhere near Hibbert's level as far as protecting the basket. I'm hoping the buzz of playing like the flash again doesn't wear-off anytime soon. It's a dangerous thing for the Spurs to let a guy like Wade feel like he's healthy again.

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 11:33 AM
Nah. Except for scoring, Wade has Kobe beat in nearly every single statistical category. And from 2008-2010 Wade was clearly better. He had more win shares, higher WS/48 and a higher PER.

Wasn't his second best player a beaten up washed up Jermaine O'Neal or something from 2008-2010?

Not hard getting win shares when ur second best player is a wet blanket

That would make it even more impressive he was able to lead that team to an average of 48 wins with such a weak supporting cast.[/QUOTE]

In the east where everyone makes it worth 0 effort?

Don't they let sub 500 teams in?

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 11:36 AM
But it's a team thing. Kobe is responsible for almost half of Phil's and 3/4 of Shaq's rings. Take Kobe outta the equation, Shaq nor Phil don't win anything

put lebron on the same laker team they win 4 in a row see how that works

Responsible for shaqs rings? How many finals mvp did Kobe get when they played together?

So I don't get this whole 'responsible crap', if anything, shaq is responsible for kobe even being in the top 10 all time

Max.This
06-14-2013, 11:45 AM
The HEAT big three will win this year and then will get ousted next year. honestly its been quite easy for the HEAT strolling into the finals especially when the Bulls this year almost took a couple games with their C team against the HEAT. Wade was a great player and just like his "nickname" which anyone who calls anyone by nicknames is a fruit he'll have flashes of greatness.

SlapintheClip
06-14-2013, 11:51 AM
The HEAT big three will win this year and then will get ousted next year. honestly its been quite easy for the HEAT strolling into the finals especially when the Bulls this year almost took a couple games with their C team against the HEAT. Wade was a great player and just like his "nickname" which anyone who calls anyone by nicknames is a fruit he'll have flashes of greatness.

Shaq is a nickname, so am I a fruit?

Big three is also a nickname

I'm sure there are alot more effeminate things men can do to be considered fruits, outside of nicknames, so that was stupid

Hawkeye15
06-14-2013, 12:00 PM
I think one of the big reasons for the struggles is the Heat have had to play defensive teams that pack the paint. When they had Splitter on him yesterday, I think he realized that these guys aren't as quick as the Pacers or Bulls. These guys aren't anywhere near Hibbert's level as far as protecting the basket. I'm hoping the buzz of playing like the flash again doesn't wear-off anytime soon. It's a dangerous thing for the Spurs to let a guy like Wade feel like he's healthy again.

Milwaukee held him to crap numbers as well. Outside last night, he hasn't had any explosion on either end all postseason.

Whatever they can do to keep him healthy for 2-3 more games is all that is needed. And then you have to hope he enters the playoffs healthy next year, which will once again take managing games played and minutes throughout the 82 games.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 12:10 PM
Even I said he looked done. He looked old, unathletic and his jumpshot looked broken. Then he goes and puts up 32 points, 6 rebounds, 6 steals and 4 assists in one of the biggest games of the year.

In the game, the announcers were talking about Wade willingly sacrificing and taking a backseat. I didn't buy it, I thought he was declining. But maybe he is just taking a backseat to LeBron for the sake of the team.

So is Wade declining? Or just sacrificing? Is he still the best SG in the league?

Big Chronz tried telling me a million times that Wade is "hurt". I said BS. Wade has declined a bit, but I do feel like Lebron takes stats away from everyone on the team. Everyone has sacrificed their games to makes Lebron look better that he is.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 12:11 PM
So then who is at present?

Healthy Kobster? Harden?

Bruno
06-14-2013, 12:16 PM
he's hobbled by the strain of a long season and back-to-back-to-back-to back runs into june. makes last night all the more impressive. he's injured, but last night was very mental as well. he lead the team in the huddle before the game and his play translated out on the court. lets see how he looks in game five, but he just put up the best game of these finals out of any player.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 12:16 PM
Healthy Kobster? Harden?

I think we've seen the last of Kobe's best.

And I'm a little hesitant to anoint Harden the best until I see a little longevity.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 12:22 PM
I think we've seen the last of Kobe's best.

And I'm a little hesitant to anoint Harden the best until I see a little longevity.

I hope not :sigh:
If Kobe is not in consideration, then I don't see how you can't go with Harden. Harden was a stud this year and is super young. I just don't see how Wade can be better than him next year. Wade just showed everyone that he is healthy and can still play at a high level. He just sacrifices his game to much for Lebron.

Stinkyoutsider
06-14-2013, 12:29 PM
Wade is clever. He has been hurt for a while but he's smart, because he's allowing James to do the heavy lifting. When the Heat needed him the most, he delivered. Being down 3 - 1 in the finals isn't a good place to be, especially with the next game to be in SA. Instead of being down, he turned his game up and gave us the performance we usually expect from Wade during the finals.

Wade is pacing himself like Paul Pierce does (even though Pierce has lost a step, he's still pacing himself imo).

JC_
06-14-2013, 12:32 PM
Milwaukee held him to crap numbers as well. Outside last night, he hasn't had any explosion on either end all postseason.

Whatever they can do to keep him healthy for 2-3 more games is all that is needed. And then you have to hope he enters the playoffs healthy next year, which will once again take managing games played and minutes throughout the 82 games.

The cool thing about him playing the way he did last night is everyone (Even the Spurs) is wondering if he can do it again.

As far as next season, I honestly think he needs lots of games off in order to play his best during the playoffs but even that doesn't guarentee that he won't be hurting come playoff time.

magic0320
06-14-2013, 01:05 PM
put lebron on the same laker team they win 4 in a row see how that works

if that happens lakers never pass kings and blazers in conference finals so shaq and phil has 0 ring with the lakers. how's that working for you?

FYL_McVeezy
06-14-2013, 01:12 PM
Extremely exaggerated..

He is hobbled, and he is declining....but you had ppl putting out trade scenarios for Wade and some people saying he should hang it up :facepalm:

Tony_Starks
06-14-2013, 01:20 PM
Wade is top 5 SG hurt or healthy. A hurt D Wade this year still put up great numbers. The problem is Lebron fans are so quick to take blame away from Lebron when he plays poorly that we start getting all the "D Wades done.... trade D Wade!" ..... crap. Dude can still ball and actually has a killer instinct.

AND never in his life has he ever been better than Kobe, please stop it.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 01:26 PM
Wade is top 5 SG hurt or healthy. A hurt D Wade this year still put up great numbers. The problem is Lebron fans are so quick to take blame away from Lebron when he plays poorly that we start getting all the "D Wades done.... trade D Wade!" ..... crap. Dude can still ball and actually has a killer instinct.

AND never in his life has he ever been better than Kobe, please stop it.

Wade's best > Kobe's best.

Kobe's had more longevity and more accolades but Wade's peak is better than Kobe's. No hate, but Kobe just regained the best SG in the league title this year after Wade had it for a couple seasons.

Lim
06-14-2013, 01:32 PM
lol hes been resting for 3 months in order to put up a game like this. hes still done.

ztilzer31
06-14-2013, 01:39 PM
I hope not :sigh:
If Kobe is not in consideration, then I don't see how you can't go with Harden. Harden was a stud this year and is super young. I just don't see how Wade can be better than him next year. Wade just showed everyone that he is healthy and can still play at a high level. He just sacrifices his game to much for Lebron.

You don't see why anyone could pick a Heat player, or anyone that has anything to do with Lebron. Why would your opinion matter in something like this? You never side with Lebron, and Wade on anything. Your hatred for them blinds everything you say. You sir are the definition of a "hater".

Chronz
06-14-2013, 02:33 PM
When you have moments where you play like you used to, thats when you are in decline.

Tmac put up a triple double on 1 leg once, even had a high rising slam some games, didn't change the fact that he needed to go under the knife.

bucketss
06-14-2013, 02:42 PM
special thank you to popovic and tiago splitter for waking wade up.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 02:49 PM
When you have moments where you play like you used to, thats when you are in decline.

Tmac put up a triple double on 1 leg once, even had a high rising slam some games, didn't change the fact that he needed to go under the knife.

You don't want to admit you were wrong about Wade, we get it. Chronz can never be wrong.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 02:50 PM
You don't see why anyone could pick a Heat player, or anyone that has anything to do with Lebron. Why would your opinion matter in something like this? You never side with Lebron, and Wade on anything. Your hatred for them blinds everything you say. You sir are the definition of a "hater".

9/10 people would take Harden right now, so keep running your mouth. If the Heat didn't ruin basketball then I wouldn't dislike them so much.

kozelkid
06-14-2013, 02:50 PM
People need to stop with the "when healthy" excuse for Wade. The whole decline with Wade has to do with the exact fact that he is less able to stay healthy and recover from his nicks and bruises. The fact that he can't stay healthy is the DIRECT result of his decline. And this is hardly a surprise given that this exact situation was predicted by doctors/trainers all the way back to when Wade was in his mid 20s given his aggressive style of play.

He had a fantastic game last night, no doubt about it and is still capable of exploding in such a matter every so often. That said, you can't rely on him to consistently carry a team anymore as you would expect from a player who has been labeled as a superstar his entire career and is paid like one.

kozelkid
06-14-2013, 02:52 PM
9/10 people would take Harden right now, so keep running your mouth. If the Heat didn't ruin basketball then I wouldn't dislike them so much.

That's funny. I doubt you'd be saying this if LA had Paul, Howard and Kobe together as Paul and Howard undoubtedly planned. But then again, that doesn't fit your agenda.

bucketss
06-14-2013, 02:57 PM
That's funny. I doubt you'd be saying this if LA had Paul, Howard and Kobe together as Paul and Howard undoubtedly planned. But then again, that doesn't fit your agenda.

his other account was, "Kbpaud122012" something like that. he was actually pushing for that super team every day. luckily the lakers dismatled this year though.

TheNumber37
06-14-2013, 03:05 PM
and then in game 5 when he goes 4-14 the wade is done thread bumps.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 03:23 PM
That's funny. I doubt you'd be saying this if LA had Paul, Howard and Kobe together as Paul and Howard undoubtedly planned. But then again, that doesn't fit your agenda.

:laugh: Kobe, Paul, And Howard planned to join each other? Was stern part of the plan too?

Lim
06-14-2013, 03:43 PM
and then in game 5 when he goes 4-14 the wade is done thread bumps.

lol this.

RLundi
06-14-2013, 04:00 PM
:laugh: Kobe, Paul, And Howard planned to join each other? Was stern part of the plan too?

YOU'RE KB-Pau-DH-2012??

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 04:44 PM
I hope not :sigh:
If Kobe is not in consideration, then I don't see how you can't go with Harden. Harden was a stud this year and is super young. I just don't see how Wade can be better than him next year. Wade just showed everyone that he is healthy and can still play at a high level. He just sacrifices his game to much for Lebron.

lol

Chronz
06-14-2013, 05:32 PM
You don't want to admit you were wrong about Wade, we get it. Chronz can never be wrong.

No idea what you're talking about. What exactly would I be wrong about?

Chronz
06-14-2013, 05:36 PM
People need to stop with the "when healthy" excuse for Wade. The whole decline with Wade has to do with the exact fact that he is less able to stay healthy and recover from his nicks and bruises. The fact that he can't stay healthy is the DIRECT result of his decline. And this is hardly a surprise given that this exact situation was predicted by doctors/trainers all the way back to when Wade was in his mid 20s given his aggressive style of play.
True but cant you express the excuse "when healthy" while still recognizing the odds of Wade being able to remain so are slimming down as he declines?


He had a fantastic game last night, no doubt about it and is still capable of exploding in such a matter every so often. That said, you can't rely on him to consistently carry a team anymore as you would expect from a player who has been labeled as a superstar his entire career and is paid like one.

The Heat have managed his minutes carefully the last 2 years, it still doesn't keep him healthy. I think we all know its a dice roll at this point with him. That said, if he plays well, he reminds you why hes paid the way he is.

Chronz
06-14-2013, 05:43 PM
I just remembered, BOTH Kobe-Pau-Dwight and the delusionist tried using the same argument regarding Wade's struggles in the post season. "Hes just cruising until the Finals".

LMFAO

If you guys aren't the same person then its hilarious how similar the homers think. Must be the amoser influence, both of them were drawn to him

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 06:07 PM
YOU'RE KB-Pau-DH-2012??That's Kips Theory,lol


lolWade was moving beautifully out there. Nothing like a man who would be hurt, he might not be 100 percent, but he's not hurt.


No idea what you're talking about. What exactly would I be wrong about?
You screamed rape when It came to Wades health. Wade is about 85-90 percent healthy. It's just his decline that is haunting him. Not because he's "HURT".

I just remembered, BOTH Kobe-Pau-Dwight and the delusionist tried using the same argument regarding Wade's struggles in the post season. "Hes just cruising until the Finals".

LMFAO

If you guys aren't the same person then its hilarious how similar the homers think. Must be the amoser influence, both of them were drawn to him

I was posting on here at the same time as him, But it seems like you guys are some real life Sherlock Holmes here on PSD.:laugh:

Your second to last sentence is hilarious btw, If only you guys could see how all you Leboners join together in your protection of your false god. You are what you say I am. This is rich stuff.

cmellofan15
06-14-2013, 06:14 PM
Says the guy who has a signature dedicated to LeBron....

Chronz
06-14-2013, 06:14 PM
You screamed rape when It came to Wades health. Wade is about 85-90 percent healthy. It's just his decline that is haunting him. Not because he's "HURT".
Hate to burst your bubble but they go hand in hand, you're not exactly showing me 2 conflicting viewpoints so why would I be wrong? LOL keep trying.



I was posting on here at the same time as him, But it seems like you guys are some real life Sherlock Holmes here on PSD.:laugh:
Is that suppose to prove anything? I've been online a long time guy, Ive seen trolls who used to create accounts to back themselves up. Are you really asking us to give you the benefit of the doubt? REALLY? U? LMFAO


Your second to last sentence is hilarious btw, If only you guys could see how all you Leboners join together in your protection of your false god. You are what you say I am. This is rich stuff.
If only you guys had someone capable of exposing that the way your click has been exposed by anyone with common sense.

kozelkid
06-14-2013, 06:36 PM
True but cant you express the excuse "when healthy" while still recognizing the odds of Wade being able to remain so are slimming down as he declines?

I suppose, but it takes a lot of optimism at this point.


The Heat have managed his minutes carefully the last 2 years, it still doesn't keep him healthy. I think we all know its a dice roll at this point with him. That said, if he plays well, he reminds you why hes paid the way he is.

Pretty much. And after his initial stretch of poor play in the beginning of the season due to likely out of shape (which appears to be a trend the past few seasons), he seemed to play quite well in the season. It's just amazing how quick he started to struggle again, once playoffs rolled along much like last year only worse this year.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-14-2013, 06:48 PM
Hate to burst your bubble but they go hand in hand, you're not exactly showing me 2 conflicting viewpoints so why would I be wrong? LOL keep trying.



Is that suppose to prove anything? I've been online a long time guy, Ive seen trolls who used to create accounts to back themselves up. Are you really asking us to give you the benefit of the doubt? REALLY? U? LMFAO


If only you guys had someone capable of exposing that the way your click has been exposed by anyone with common sense.

Ok, so why is it you have never mentioned that before. You said Wade hasn't declined, that he's just hurt. Keep reaching into your bag of "I'm never wrong". You'll find some turd to stick to the wall.

Well the only thing that proves MR High Horse is that you need to find some friends, and or girl friend. You live in LA, how about going outside! It's beautiful here bro. Who in their right mind would make a second account just incase they were to lose one. That's weird dude, I have a life big guy. I don't have time for crap like that.

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 07:02 PM
Pretty much. And after his initial stretch of poor play in the beginning of the season due to likely out of shape (which appears to be a trend the past few seasons), he seemed to play quite well in the season. It's just amazing how quick he started to struggle again, once playoffs rolled along much like last year only worse this year.

the early struggles were because he had just had knee surgery and the timeline for his full recovery from that was the allstar break. as the season went on he got better and better and after the allstar break he was fully healthy and absolutely tore it up for about 2 months before injuring the other knee. he's obviously injury prone at this point, but when healthy he still plays like a top 5 player it's just getting to be less and less often. i think you have to be able to separate health and decline, they aren't the same thing. decline suggests he's not capable of playing like he used to because he lost his ability/skills/athleticism/etc. and yes he's declined some but not as much as people make it out to be. it's just that his health is getting in his way more and more. the reason he started to struggle quickly again is because he's not healthy again it's pretty simple.

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 07:07 PM
Wade was moving beautifully out there. Nothing like a man who would be hurt, he might not be 100 percent, but he's not hurt.

yes he moved well and played through the pain in a gutsy performance with the season on the line. but to say he's not hurt is pretty funny and shows you don't have a clue. wade said there are days when his knee feels a little better then others, it's been an up and down thing but mostly down these playoffs. you can't just say he's healthy and been holding back after one game where he managed to have a good output despite the injury, he's too great to completely not show up in a situation like that injured or not.

kozelkid
06-14-2013, 07:15 PM
i think you have to be able to separate health and decline, they aren't the same thing. decline suggests he's not capable of playing like he used to because he lost his ability/skills/athleticism/etc. and yes he's declined some but not as much as people make it out to be. it's just that his health is getting in his way more and more. the reason he started to struggle quickly again is because he's not healthy again it's pretty simple.

While they aren't the same thing, they are certainly NOT mutually exclusive entities as many here would like to suggest. His decline has A LOT to do with his inability to consistently stay healthy. As chronz mentioned as well, the fact that his chances at consistently remaining healthy are consistently diminishing is a direct result of his wear and tear, i.e. he IS declining.

Trust me, I've seen the same thing when I had to watch Scottie decline by the end of the Bulls run. It's not any different than with Tmac where JB consistently tried to sell the notion that some team needed to take a chance on him because when healthy, he's still a beast. Problem becomes the fact that his chances of getting back to his healthy state were decreasing by game and as time wore on. Wade is no different. The fact that his injuries are bothering him more and he is less able to play through them is a direct result of his decline. And I'm sure Celtics fans would attest to the same thing as they watched KG decline. When a player is getting injured or is unable to play through those injuries as well as before, it's a direct sign of decline, simple as that.

i.got.the.nutz
06-14-2013, 07:28 PM
Kobe hasn't been healthy for the past 3 years. Have you guys seen the wrap on his shooting finger the past 2 years? If we are comparing a healthy Wade, we should be comparing him to a healthy Kobe. Funny how Wade gets by with all the injury excuses when Kobe has been playing injured for the past couple years now.

i.got.the.nutz
06-14-2013, 07:29 PM
Wade is up there with Durant in the do-no-wrong category.

kozelkid
06-14-2013, 07:32 PM
Kobe hasn't been healthy for the past 3 years. Have you guys seen the wrap on his shooting finger the past 2 years? If we are comparing a healthy Wade, we should be comparing him to a healthy Kobe. Funny how Wade gets by with all the injury excuses when Kobe has been playing injured for the past couple years now.

Kobe is in his own category as far as his ability to fight off father time. Few players I've seen able to maintain his elite status in spite of all he has faced from an age/injury status. Kobe is not the norm in that regard. That said, he also has made obvious adjustments to maintain his high level ability as some of his physical skills diminished. I've seen little of such adjustments from Wade.

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 07:39 PM
While they aren't the same thing, they are certainly NOT mutually exclusive entities as many here would like to suggest. His decline has A LOT to do with his inability to consistently stay healthy. As chronz mentioned as well, the fact that his chances at consistently remaining healthy are consistently diminishing is a direct result of his wear and tear, i.e. he IS declining.

Trust me, I've seen the same thing when I had to watch Scottie decline by the end of the Bulls run. It's not any different than with Tmac where JB consistently tried to sell the notion that some team needed to take a chance on him because when healthy, he's still a beast. Problem becomes the fact that his chances of getting back to his healthy state were decreasing by game and as time wore on. Wade is no different. The fact that his injuries are bothering him more and he is less able to play through them is a direct result of his decline. And I'm sure Celtics fans would attest to the same thing as they watched KG decline. When a player is getting injured or is unable to play through those injuries as well as before, it's a direct sign of decline, simple as that.

ya i get all that, and that all might be the case. but i still think it's too early, he's just 31 and i know he doesn't play a style that ages well but he's always had injuries. people thought he was done in 07, wade has a way of coming back strong and proving people wrong who doubt him prematurely. obviously he won't play like he did in 08-09 again, he's definitely declined from that level and playing with lebron keeps his stats down a bit as well. but i do think he'll come back with a strong season next year once again, he always has so far so i'm not about to doubt him yet. only time will tell...

Bruins2012
06-14-2013, 07:49 PM
He was/is one of the top players at his position for about 10 years (?), and to keep up that level of play while dodging the injury bug is very hard to do. He's still a very good player when he is not inured but yes he is declining due to age and injuries just not as much as everybody thought a few months ago.

Chronz
06-14-2013, 08:03 PM
Ok, so why is it you have never mentioned that before.
Says who? LOL you keep a record of every value I hold?



You said Wade hasn't declined, that he's just hurt. Keep reaching into your bag of "I'm never wrong". You'll find some turd to stick to the wall.
I never said that. Keep lying to yourself. Again the 2 thoughts are not mutually exclusive. Do you even know what that means?


Well the only thing that proves MR High Horse is that you need to find some friends, and or girl friend.
Whats "that"? And HOW does it prove your opinion?


You live in LA, how about going outside! It's beautiful here bro.
Good one.


Who in their right mind would make a second account just incase they were to lose one.
Who said it was just in case they lost one? And whoever said they were in their right mind? Do you ever know whats going on.



That's weird dude, I have a life big guy. I don't have time for crap like that.
Apparently you're the pretentious kind that likes to pretend others dont have a life, so why would I assume you actually do? Forgive me for sticking with common sense here.

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 08:08 PM
Kobe hasn't been healthy for the past 3 years. Have you guys seen the wrap on his shooting finger the past 2 years? If we are comparing a healthy Wade, we should be comparing him to a healthy Kobe. Funny how Wade gets by with all the injury excuses when Kobe has been playing injured for the past couple years now.

Stop the crap. Kobe isn't as injured as everyone thinks he is. There is no way you can be injured and put up those numbers daily. He's hurt, not injured. Huge difference..

i.got.the.nutz
06-14-2013, 09:18 PM
Stop the crap. Kobe isn't as injured as everyone thinks he is. There is no way you can be injured and put up those numbers daily. He's hurt, not injured. Huge difference..

And no injured player would be able to put up he numbers Wade did last game, so let's just stop with all the excuses. Wade has been playing like crap these whole playoffs, and it's not because he's injured.

THE MTL
06-14-2013, 09:41 PM
Nah wade has declined and its still pretty steep if you ask me. Wade used to have games like that all time.

Aust
06-14-2013, 10:31 PM
One game doesn't change everything. Where was this guy earlier?

cmellofan15
06-14-2013, 10:44 PM
One game doesn't change everything. Where was this guy earlier?

Apparently in the one game he actually showed up, he has completely redeemed himself.

rex.reyesiii
06-14-2013, 11:55 PM
One game doesn't change everything. Where was this guy earlier?

Managing Lebron's Ego is my bet. Wade played well after asking for touches and strongly pointing to playing like a Big 3 not only relying on an Individual.

Legitimate
06-15-2013, 12:09 AM
Wade is a beast and this is coming from a Miami heat hater.

naps
06-15-2013, 03:43 AM
Wade is top 5 SG hurt or healthy. A hurt D Wade this year still put up great numbers. The problem is Lebron fans are so quick to take blame away from Lebron when he plays poorly that we start getting all the "D Wades done.... trade D Wade!" ..... crap. Dude can still ball and actually has a killer instinct.

AND never in his life has he ever been better than Kobe, please stop it.


LOL. Kobephiles are amusing to say the least. Pretty funny how they underrate the **** out of Wade when it comes to a discussion of the best SG and how they act like he's a top 3 or top 5 player in every LeBron thread. Which one is it? Oh wait, I see so it's whichever fits your agenda at that specific time? Smart...NOT.

ThunderousDemon
06-15-2013, 04:00 AM
LOL. Kobephiles are amusing to say the least. Pretty funny how they underrate the **** out of Wade when it comes to a discussion of the best SG and how they act like he's a top 3 or top 5 player in every LeBron thread. Which one is it? Oh wait, I see so it's whichever fits your agenda at that specific time? Smart...NOT.

lol wadephiles?

Lebronites?

LebronPhiles?

Miami Heatphile?

BirdManPhile?

ThunderousDemon
06-15-2013, 04:08 AM
Attention people, if you disagree with a Heat fan's opinion then let it be known that you might be labeled a hater or a Kobephile because their opinion isn't really an opinion, it's the LAW!

Everything that comes out of their mouths is gold I tells ya.

You might say to yourself,"What If I just disagree with their view and I'm a Bobcats fan?", well tough luck Timmy, you are now and forever will be a Kobephile and a hater whether you like it or not," But I don't even like Kobe?", FACE IT TIMMY, ACCEPT IT!!

ThunderousDemon
06-15-2013, 04:10 AM
I mean, what other explanation is there when you disagree with a heat fan besides being a KobePhile and a Hater?

There is no other.

It is written.

naps
06-15-2013, 04:22 AM
You seem to be very disorganized and upset. Sorry for making it tough on you. But only a Kobephile would quote someone without reading the post. Wade is some superhero in LeBron threads and Wade is trash in SG threads. Again, I ask which one is it kobephile?

ztilzer31
06-15-2013, 04:22 AM
Kobe hasn't been healthy for the past 3 years. Have you guys seen the wrap on his shooting finger the past 2 years? If we are comparing a healthy Wade, we should be comparing him to a healthy Kobe. Funny how Wade gets by with all the injury excuses when Kobe has been playing injured for the past couple years now.

Is this a troll post? Are you seriously comparing a finger to a knee? Like in basketball? Forreal?

ztilzer31
06-15-2013, 04:24 AM
Attention people, if you disagree with a Heat fan's opinion then let it be known that you might be labeled a hater or a Kobephile because their opinion isn't really an opinion, it's the LAW!

Everything that comes out of their mouths is gold I tells ya.

You might say to yourself,"What If I just disagree with their view and I'm a Bobcats fan?", well tough luck Timmy, you are now and forever will be a Kobephile and a hater whether you like it or not," But I don't even like Kobe?", FACE IT TIMMY, ACCEPT IT!!

Are you drunk?

ztilzer31
06-15-2013, 04:25 AM
Wtf is a shooting finger?

Lakers + Giants
06-15-2013, 06:03 AM
You seem to be very disorganized and upset. Sorry for making it tough on you. But only a Kobephile would quote someone without reading the post. Wade is some superhero in LeBron threads and Wade is trash in SG threads. Again, I ask which one is it kobephile?

Just to be fair. When talking about the best SGs wade is called the best by most heat fans, but when heat lose wade is a bum and lebron does no wrong. So which one is it?

ThunderousDemon
06-15-2013, 12:30 PM
Are you drunk?

:cheers:

IKnowHoops
06-15-2013, 01:42 PM
The difference in ability between Kobe, Tmac and D-wade is so minuscule, all should completely understand when there is disagreement on which one is best.

Khri
06-15-2013, 01:44 PM
The difference in ability between Kobe, Tmac and D-wade is so minuscule, all should completely understand when there is disagreement on which one is best.

Tmac never did anything. I really don't understand why he is even in the conversation.

ztilzer31
06-15-2013, 03:17 PM
Tmac never did anything. I really don't understand why he is even in the conversation.

He had an amazing prime... Some of the best seasons ever out of the SG position come from Tracy Mcgrady. He just didn't last that long and never won a chip.

Tony_Starks
06-16-2013, 10:18 PM
Attention people, if you disagree with a Heat fan's opinion then let it be known that you might be labeled a hater or a Kobephile because their opinion isn't really an opinion, it's the LAW!

Everything that comes out of their mouths is gold I tells ya.

You might say to yourself,"What If I just disagree with their view and I'm a Bobcats fan?", well tough luck Timmy, you are now and forever will be a Kobephile and a hater whether you like it or not," But I don't even like Kobe?", FACE IT TIMMY, ACCEPT IT!!

Pretty much. I never thought I would see the day that saying Kobe is better than Wade labels you a "Kobephile."

Lol. Well if that's the case then so be it. He's better than Wade, prime and all time. Label me whatever corny name you want but it's still the truth.....

Enemey
06-16-2013, 11:19 PM
attention people, if you disagree with a heat fan's opinion then let it be known that you might be labeled a hater or a kobephile because their opinion isn't really an opinion, it's the law!

Everything that comes out of their mouths is gold i tells ya.

You might say to yourself,"what if i just disagree with their view and i'm a bobcats fan?", well tough luck timmy, you are now and forever will be a kobephile and a hater whether you like it or not," but i don't even like kobe?", face it timmy, accept it!!

lmao

tr4shb0t
06-16-2013, 11:30 PM
I think Wade is fine. He just can't make a jumpshot unless the refs blow him. It's all about confidence.