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View Full Version : Can We Get Rid of the Zone Already?



Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 03:36 PM
We all see that Pop is basically zoning Lebron, building a wall, and daring him to shoot. Against Memphis Pop fronted ZBO but also had a man lurking behind him so they couldnt lob it in, what we used to call illegal defense. Also Larry Brown used the zone very effectively against the '04 Lakers.

What ever happened to the good ol days of actually having to play D instead of just guarding a area? Part of the appeal of the NBA is superstars and great defenders trying to stop them but if you can double a guy without the ball or basically just pack the paint is that really NBA basketball?

We all know it was implemented for Shaq and AI but do we really still need this? If I'm going to watch people try to break the zone and kick it to shooters I might as well watch college.

greg_ory_2005
06-13-2013, 03:37 PM
Go watch college then

TrueFan420
06-13-2013, 03:38 PM
Team d is just as important at 1v1 d

Slug3
06-13-2013, 03:45 PM
I thought playing zone was a form of D? If Pop is going to use it then Spo better figure out a way to break it. That's usually what coaches jobs are for.

Longhornfan1234
06-13-2013, 03:46 PM
Zone D is so lame.

BigBlueCrew
06-13-2013, 03:51 PM
uh no....

How bout we get rid of defense in the NBA altogether? The refs already call a foul for even breathing on a star in today's NBA. Just because a coach thinks up of a way to actually stopping one of these guys you have a problem with it?? Cmon :rolleyes:

PhillyFaninLA
06-13-2013, 03:57 PM
Yeah who wants players that are good enough and coaches that are smart enough to use strategy to beat the other teams defensive strategy....lets just remove what is inconvient rather than be good enough to overcome it. Lets take the easy road people.

Zone is fine just adjust game plan to get around it. Its hard is not a reason to get rid of something, its a reason to keep it.

HouRealCoach
06-13-2013, 03:57 PM
Seems like NBA players need to learn how to shoot

2-ONE-5
06-13-2013, 04:02 PM
lol this is too funny. I love when I go out to play ball and dudes whine about us playing zone and not man while we're on our way to a blowout. You think a zone would have ever stopped Jordan? Its not a true zone in the NBA either bcuz you cant just sit in the paint like in college. OP just sounds like a butt hurt Heat fan

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 04:05 PM
Yeah who wants players that are good enough and coaches that are smart enough to use strategy to beat the other teams defensive strategy....lets just remove what is inconvient rather than be good enough to overcome it. Lets take the easy road people.

Zone is fine just adjust game plan to get around it. Its hard is not a reason to get rid of something, its a reason to keep it.


That's all well and good if zone D was something they always had. It wasn't until they saw that certain players couldn't be stopped that it was implemented.

It's a cop out.

IndyRealist
06-13-2013, 04:09 PM
Seems like NBA players need to learn how to shoot

This. You beat a zone with ball movement and outside shooting. Zone is fundamental part of the game, and is used at every level of basketball in the entire world. The NBA needs to stop pandering to sportscenter.

ThunderousDemon
06-13-2013, 04:13 PM
:laugh2:

C_Mund
06-13-2013, 04:14 PM
That's all well and good if zone D was something they always had. It wasn't until they saw that certain players couldn't be stopped that it was implemented.

It's a cop out.

It also came after they outlawed hand-checks, making it easy to get by perimeter defenders. If you want to watch a game that goes up to 140 with nothing but dunks go check the Globetrotters. Frankly, if LBJ is doubled it just means that a long-distance shooter should be open, right? Theoretically, breaking a zone is easy as a couple fast swings and hitting the open shots that ensue. The ball moves faster than the defense 100% of the time.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2013, 04:15 PM
Yeah lets get rid of a legitimate defensive strategy.

kozelkid
06-13-2013, 04:20 PM
Yeah who wants players that are good enough and coaches that are smart enough to use strategy to beat the other teams defensive strategy....lets just remove what is inconvient rather than be good enough to overcome it. Lets take the easy road people.

Zone is fine just adjust game plan to get around it. Its hard is not a reason to get rid of something, its a reason to keep it.


That's all well and good if zone D was something they always had. It wasn't until they saw that certain players couldn't be stopped that it was implemented.

It's a cop out.

Compete utter bull****.

Zone being illegal didn't stop defenses from using zone against Jordan all the damn time. And Lebron did just fine against the zone when facing Chicago.

God forbid we give coaches more means to show off a little ingenuity. It's not like this league needs to be any more star dominated than it currently is, but I wouldn't expect any less from a Lakers fan.

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 04:25 PM
This. You beat a zone with ball movement and outside shooting. Zone is fundamental part of the game, and is used at every level of basketball in the entire world. The NBA needs to stop pandering to sportscenter.

The zone is to the benefit of the Matt Bonners and Mike Millers of the world. You make them pay by moving the rock,knocking down your 3's and break the zone. I get it. But it had been assumed for years that the Pro's were good enough defenders that they didn't need the same crutch that HS and college kids do.

You can hate on me for being old school but its a fact that when the league first adopted it there were some old school coaches that refused, and still refuse to use it on general principle.

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 04:26 PM
Oh and LOL at people calling me a Heat fan.

kdspurman
06-13-2013, 04:27 PM
The zone is to the benefit of the Matt Bonners and Mike Millers of the world. You make them pay by moving the rock,knocking down your 3's and break the zone. I get it. But it had been assumed for years that the Pro's were good enough defenders that they didn't need the same crutch that HS and college kids do.

You can hate on me for being old school but its a fact that when the league first adopted it there were some old school coaches that refused, and still refuse to use it on general principle.

It should also be assumed that both coaches & players have higher BB IQ's than the high school & college kids as well right? You make the opposing team do away with the zone by beating it.

IndyRealist
06-13-2013, 04:35 PM
The zone is to the benefit of the Matt Bonners and Mike Millers of the world. You make them pay by moving the rock,knocking down your 3's and break the zone. I get it. But it had been assumed for years that the Pro's were good enough defenders that they didn't need the same crutch that HS and college kids do.

You can hate on me for being old school but its a fact that when the league first adopted it there were some old school coaches that refused, and still refuse to use it on general principle.

It's used in international basketball on every level. It's a part of the game, it's not a crutch. Why didn't they take out free throws when Shaq was horrible at them? Take away the 3pt line because Dwight doesn't shoot from there? Take away zone because Lebron can't beat it?

Zone benefits players WHO CAN SHOOT. Shooting is a fundamental part of basketball. Let's take that out too, because Lebron isn't good at it.

We'll leave in flopping though. He's good at that.

Kashmir13579
06-13-2013, 04:39 PM
Seems like NBA players need to learn how to shoot

:laugh2:

Funny thread.

Mr_Jones
06-13-2013, 04:45 PM
lol this is too funny. I love when I go out to play ball and dudes whine about us playing zone and not man while we're on our way to a blowout. You think a zone would have ever stopped Jordan? Its not a true zone in the NBA either bcuz you cant just sit in the paint like in college. OP just sounds like a butt hurt Heat fan

Which is weird since the Heat play zone all the time..

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 04:50 PM
It's used in international basketball on every level. It's a part of the game, it's not a crutch. Why didn't they take out free throws when Shaq was horrible at them? Take away the 3pt line because Dwight doesn't shoot from there? Take away zone because Lebron can't beat it?

Zone benefits players WHO CAN SHOOT. Shooting is a fundamental part of basketball. Let's take that out too, because Lebron isn't good at it.

We'll leave in flopping though. He's good at that.

Are you expecting to defend Lebron or something? I'm no Heat fan and have openly criticized him numerous times for playing like garbage. But I am a basketball fan and as such I know that take away the zone and this series drastically changes.

So I'm guessing you would've liked to watch them load up on MJ and let Steve Kerr or Paxon bust you for 30 points? Ok cool then.

IndyRealist
06-13-2013, 04:51 PM
And let's not forget why the NBA legalized zone in the first place. Because the NBA players were getting DESTROYED in international competition, including the Olympics. When you don't coach your players with zone, they don't know how to recognize it or beat it. The NBA's also considering changing the goaltending rules to match international competition as well.

IndyRealist
06-13-2013, 04:52 PM
Are you expecting to defend Lebron or something? I'm no Heat fan and have openly criticized him numerous times for playing like garbage. But I am a basketball fan and as such I know that take away the zone and this series drastically changes.

So I'm guessing you would've liked to watch them load up on MJ and let Steve Kerr or Paxon bust you for 30 points? Ok cool then.

Take away the 3pt line then it's drastically changing the series.

kozelkid
06-13-2013, 05:12 PM
So I'm guessing you would've liked to watch them load up on MJ and let Steve Kerr or Paxon bust you for 30 points? Ok cool then.

As a basketball fan, you should know then that Jordan faced zone ALL THE TIME whenever he played Detroit or New York.

Just search Michael Jordan zone defense. There are PLENTY of YouTube videos confirming it in spite of it being labeled "illegal." That rule was as much of a joke as flopping is.

heyman321
06-13-2013, 05:16 PM
we should also take away the backboard. I mean, come on, players can't even make swishes on every shot?

PJAF
06-13-2013, 05:19 PM
We all see that Pop is basically zoning Lebron, building a wall, and daring him to shoot. Against Memphis Pop fronted ZBO but also had a man lurking behind him so they couldnt lob it in, what we used to call illegal defense. Also Larry Brown used the zone very effectively against the '04 Lakers.

What ever happened to the good ol days of actually having to play D instead of just guarding a area? Part of the appeal of the NBA is superstars and great defenders trying to stop them but if you can double a guy without the ball or basically just pack the paint is that really NBA basketball?

We all know it was implemented for Shaq and AI but do we really still need this? If I'm going to watch people try to break the zone and kick it to shooters I might as well watch college.

I agree with you 100%. The zone was not allowed in the NBA and should not have been brought back. Man to man is what separates the men from the boys.

rocket
06-13-2013, 05:23 PM
:laugh:

Are you serious?

rocket
06-13-2013, 05:24 PM
Let's take the Basketball while we are at it and play with bricks.

2-ONE-5
06-13-2013, 05:27 PM
if oyur gonna take away zone then u gotta take away pick and roll cuz i mean how is it fair for a Center to cover a PG after a switch? while we're at it just put a height requirement in place to avoid that problem

NYMetros
06-13-2013, 05:28 PM
If Lebron was knocking down outside shots with consistency then the zone wouldn't be effective. Not letting James get to the basket is the smartest way to defend him, give credit to Pop and the players for playing great D.

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 05:36 PM
If Lebron was knocking down outside shots with consistency then the zone wouldn't be effective. Not letting James get to the basket is the smartest way to defend him, give credit to Pop and the players for playing great D.


I give him all the credit in the world. If I were a coach I would do the exact same thing. Like I said he used it great against Memphis and basically took ZBO and Gasol out of the equation.

I'm simply saying I miss the good ol days of man up, shut down your man defense. In a zone you can hide people that are weak defenders because they're basically just guarding a area...

lakers4sho
06-13-2013, 05:38 PM
No out of bounds, traveling, and shot clock. Have the sliders all the way up to 99. **** yeah.

kozelkid
06-13-2013, 05:39 PM
If Lebron was knocking down outside shots with consistency then the zone wouldn't be effective. Not letting James get to the basket is the smartest way to defend him, give credit to Pop and the players for playing great D.


I give him all the credit in the world. If I were a coach I would do the exact same thing. Like I said he used it great against Memphis and basically took ZBO and Gasol out of the equation.

I'm simply saying I miss the good ol days of man up, shut down your man defense. In a zone you can hide people that are weak defenders because they're basically just guarding a area...

You still haven't responded to my post and the fact that those "good ol days" were nothing more than a myth.

b@llhog24
06-13-2013, 05:46 PM
Not your best thread idea Tony.

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 05:59 PM
Not your best thread idea Tony.

Lol. The worst part is people assumed I'm a Heat fan/ Lebron homer.

My teams been at home since round 1.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-13-2013, 06:04 PM
As a basketball fan, you should know then that Jordan faced zone ALL THE TIME whenever he played Detroit or New York.

Just search Michael Jordan zone defense. There are PLENTY of YouTube videos confirming it in spite of it being labeled "illegal." That rule was as much of a joke as flopping is.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 06:05 PM
You still haven't responded to my post and the
fact that those "good ol days" were nothing more than a myth.

Oh I'll definitely give you that they got away with occasional zone. But there's a difference between that and blatantly being about to do it with immunity. For the most part guys like Starks and Dumars stayed in MJs grill with a serious handcheck.

Also watching those games I remember when MJ got more savy he mastered the art of ball faking with one hand so the defenders lurking either had to commit or get caught in no mans land for illegal Defense.

I'm no fan of MJ but I'm just saying with a zone no way he avgs 40pts for a finals series.

Rndy
06-13-2013, 06:11 PM
Jesus... Lets see how to stop a zone defense shoot the ball and rebound. Not the Spurs fault Miami can't take advantage of the offensive rebounds that Zone defenses often give up. Defense has been getting screwed for years lets continue at it I like Horse better anyways!

pd1dish
06-13-2013, 06:11 PM
wow...this thread is funny

kozelkid
06-13-2013, 06:13 PM
I don't buy that for a second. Lebron has consistently shown capable of posting video game numbers against a zone defense. In fact, he has done it against Chicago numerous times.

In fact, if I you want, when I'm not on my phone in a couple hours, I could post numerous quotes from both ex-players and coaches who will tell you how little of a difference zone makes from 80s-90s vs. now and how often it is even a liability if you overplay it for more than a stretch.

Tony_Starks
06-13-2013, 06:18 PM
I don't buy that for a second. Lebron has consistently shown capable of posting video game numbers against a zone defense. In fact, he has done it against Chicago numerous times.

In fact, if I you want, when I'm not on my phone in a couple hours, I could post numerous quotes from both ex-players and coaches who will tell you how little of a difference zone makes from 80s-90s vs. now and how often it is even a liability if you overplay it for more than a stretch.


You do get that this is about the NBA in general and not Lebron right? If Lebrons J is broke then shame on him. I used him as a 1 of 3 examples. Miami uses zone too!

Again I don't like how you can be a slow weak defender and hide in the zone.

kozelkid
06-13-2013, 06:25 PM
And I don't like how much the game is influenced by star talent rather than depth or overall teamwork. So your plan would only make it worse in that regard. If you wanna watch one on one, watch and1 or aau. :shrug:

Listen, isn't it part of the coach's job to put his players into a better position for success? I'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't make sense to me.

JoeDirt05
06-13-2013, 07:21 PM
That's all well and good if zone D was something they always had. It wasn't until they saw that certain players couldn't be stopped that it was implemented.

It's a cop out.



It also came after they outlawed hand-checks, making it easy to get by perimeter defenders. If you want to watch a game that goes up to 140 with nothing but dunks go check the Globetrotters. Frankly, if LBJ is doubled it just means that a long-distance shooter should be open, right? Theoretically, breaking a zone is easy as a couple fast swings and hitting the open shots that ensue. The ball moves faster than the defense
100% of the time
.

Number 1 way to beat the zone is the cross court pass

topdog
06-13-2013, 10:09 PM
Why should it be illegal when it allows the opposing team an open shot? I didn't hear anyone complaining last year when Battiers', Chalmers' and Millers' 3s were going down.

Hellcrooner
06-13-2013, 10:22 PM
We all see that Pop is basically zoning Lebron, building a wall, and daring him to shoot. Against Memphis Pop fronted ZBO but also had a man lurking behind him so they couldnt lob it in, what we used to call illegal defense. Also Larry Brown used the zone very effectively against the '04 Lakers.

What ever happened to the good ol days of actually having to play D instead of just guarding a area? Part of the appeal of the NBA is superstars and great defenders trying to stop them but if you can double a guy without the ball or basically just pack the paint is that really NBA basketball?

We all know it was implemented for Shaq and AI but do we really still need this? If I'm going to watch people try to break the zone and kick it to shooters I might as well watch college.

Wellcome to Fiba basketball.

where being Smart > being a great athlete and a beast.

Long live the ZONE, too bad they dont allow it to play it 100% like in fiba.
**** the star system.

We should also go back to the times where wars were fought man to man with a sword, god forbid to do complex militar maneouvers and the use of long range weapones that have one man kill several men at one time!!!!!!!!1



TEAM> stars.

D-Leethal
06-13-2013, 10:28 PM
And give even more of an advantage to dudes who want to barrel the lane and play human bumper cars while getting rewarded 2 FTs?

Raps18-19 Champ
06-13-2013, 11:41 PM
Why?

It's an effective strategy. If Lebron can't barrel inside, he better make his shots then.

LongWayFromHome
06-14-2013, 01:44 AM
Shoot em out of the zone. They are the best players in the world. Shouldn't they love open 3's?

OceanSpray
06-14-2013, 01:57 AM
This would literally make LeBron even more unstoppable. As much as I hate it, it's going to be too easy to score.

SportsFanatic10
06-14-2013, 02:42 AM
i have no problem with it, as a defense you have to give a team like the heat something you play the odds. that's what the shooters are for. defense is hard enough to play in this game already, i don't think it needs to get way easier on offenses. it'll ruin the game's balance.

hidalgo
06-14-2013, 03:22 AM
i say take the zone back out & bring back hand checking & the old rules

A Black Prophet
06-14-2013, 06:49 AM
if hand checking is affectice why did players and teams avg more points

RiceOnTheRun
06-14-2013, 07:12 AM
And I don't like how much the game is influenced by star talent rather than depth or overall teamwork. So your plan would only make it worse in that regard. If you wanna watch one on one, watch and1 or aau. :shrug:

Listen, isn't it part of the coach's job to put his players into a better position for success? I'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't make sense to me.

As another option, he could watch the Knicks play.

Edit: Did I say Knicks? I meant Carmelo Anthony and company.

ragee
06-14-2013, 07:26 AM
I give him all the credit in the world. If I were a coach I would do the exact same thing. Like I said he used it great against Memphis and basically took ZBO and Gasol out of the equation.

I'm simply saying I miss the good ol days of man up, shut down your man defense. In a zone you can hide people that are weak defenders because they're basically just guarding a area...

So why don't we just play 1 on 1 basketball?

Basketball is a team sport. Teams should be able to formulate strategies to show their strengths and hide their weaknesses.

If I am going by your logic, shouldn't we make double teaming illegal as well?

netsgiantsyanks
06-14-2013, 09:21 AM
:laugh2:

basically.

kubernetes
06-15-2013, 12:14 AM
Zone D is so lame.

It's not lame if it works.

It's not as if the zone is unbeatable or a gamebreaker.

Take away the zone. Take away hand-checking. Why not just take away offensive fouls too?

cmellofan15
06-15-2013, 12:25 AM
Fire the coaches!

hidalgo
06-15-2013, 12:48 AM
if hand checking is affectice why did players and teams avg more pointswho knows, but by the looks of things they were more fundementally sound back then, & passed the ball bettter, along with more up tempo philosophies in general from coaches.(96-99 scoring really went down, & the trend started in 94, slower pace) i think possibly takin out handcheckin & makin it easier to score 1 on 1 kinda promoted hero ball, & that never adds up to more ppg for a team, just an individual. anyway, don't care about that so much as i think it's lame to have completely different rules now, so it's hard to judge eras. if all eras are played under the same rules it's much easier to judge

Kobe Bryant, in his 3rd and 4th season (i would include the first two but he came off the bench) averaged 19.9 and 22.5 ppg, while averaging 37.5 minutes per game. In the post season those years averaging 19 and 21 ppg as well. After the 2000 finals ratings tanked, the league decided to add more offense, and banned hand checking. The next year, Kobe Bryant averaged 28.5 ppg, and most significant, the leagues top 10 scorers scored 23% more points than the year before and saw a 4% field goal increase. like Kobe, Stackhouse went from 23.6 ppg to 29.8 ppg magically after handcheckin was banned. think he'd have ever sniffed 29 ppg in the 90s? i don't. T-Mac went from 15 ppg in 2000 to 26 ppg in 2001, etc. getting rid of handchecking made it easier for a 1 on 1 type player to score more ppg

OceanSpray
06-15-2013, 02:46 AM
who knows, but by the looks of things they were more fundementally sound back then, & passed the ball bettter, along with more up tempo philosophies in general from coaches.(96-99 scoring really went down, & the trend started in 94, slower pace) i think possibly takin out handcheckin & makin it easier to score 1 on 1 kinda promoted hero ball, & that never adds up to more ppg for a team, just an individual. anyway, don't care about that so much as i think it's lame to have completely different rules now, so it's hard to judge eras. if all eras are played under the same rules it's much easier to judge

Kobe Bryant, in his 3rd and 4th season (i would include the first two but he came off the bench) averaged 19.9 and 22.5 ppg, while averaging 37.5 minutes per game. In the post season those years averaging 19 and 21 ppg as well. After the 2000 finals ratings tanked, the league decided to add more offense, and banned hand checking. The next year, Kobe Bryant averaged 28.5 ppg, and most significant, the leagues top 10 scorers scored 23% more points than the year before and saw a 4% field goal increase. like Kobe, Stackhouse went from 23.6 ppg to 29.8 ppg magically after handcheckin was banned. think he's have ever sniffed 29 ppg in the 90s? i don't. T-Mac went from 15 ppg in 2000 to 26 ppg in 2001, etc. getting rid of handchecking made it easier for a 1 on 1 type player to score more ppg

Do you find all your information on YahooAnswers? Jesus, where is the credibility in that? Anyways, someone still mentioned that hand checking is still done. Yeah, it is. You can't possibly tell me that you don't see hand checking in the NBA. If they were more fundamentally sound back then, then the defense wasn't as good as you think it is. Also, NBA today is more complete than back then. Back then, every basket was like a paint shot.

A Black Prophet
06-16-2013, 06:18 AM
who knows, but by the looks of things they were more fundementally sound back then, & passed the ball bettter, along with more up tempo philosophies in general from coaches.(96-99 scoring really went down, & the trend started in 94, slower pace) i think possibly takin out handcheckin & makin it easier to score 1 on 1 kinda promoted hero ball, & that never adds up to more ppg for a team, just an individual. anyway, don't care about that so much as i think it's lame to have completely different rules now, so it's hard to judge eras. if all eras are played under the same rules it's much easier to judge

Kobe Bryant, in his 3rd and 4th season (i would include the first two but he came off the bench) averaged 19.9 and 22.5 ppg, while averaging 37.5 minutes per game. In the post season those years averaging 19 and 21 ppg as well. After the 2000 finals ratings tanked, the league decided to add more offense, and banned hand checking. The next year, Kobe Bryant averaged 28.5 ppg, and most significant, the leagues top 10 scorers scored 23% more points than the year before and saw a 4% field goal increase. like Kobe, Stackhouse went from 23.6 ppg to 29.8 ppg magically after handcheckin was banned. think he'd have ever sniffed 29 ppg in the 90s? i don't. T-Mac went from 15 ppg in 2000 to 26 ppg in 2001, etc. getting rid of handchecking made it easier for a 1 on 1 type player to score more ppg

The fundamental arguement is very subjective nam me one player from the 90s except mj that is better overall then lebron. Guess what you wont find one and guess what most of them went to college. Another thing teams were not more fundamentaly sound the reason they averaged more points is because of the lack of zone defense 1 on 1 ball is easier to beat then zone defense and answer me this if drexler and dominique averaged 30 ponts a couple of times during the 90s why wouldnt kobe and hes a better scorer then both

The goods
06-16-2013, 06:55 AM
Hahaha no, buts let's start take away blocking and charging foul that would be a legit argument, it'll stop all the weak *** flopping and give post players a purpose again, let them challenge the freaking ball when a player drives in.

hidalgo
06-16-2013, 07:26 AM
The fundamental arguement is very subjective nam me one player from the 90s except mj that is better overall then lebron. Guess what you wont find one and guess what most of them went to college. Another thing teams were not more fundamentaly sound the reason they averaged more points is because of the lack of zone defense 1 on 1 ball is easier to beat then zone defense and answer me this if drexler and dominique averaged 30 ponts a couple of times during the 90s why wouldnt kobe and hes a better scorer then bothShaquille O'neal & Hakeem Olajuwon were better. also the lowest scoring year in nba history was 1999, with handchecking, & no zone defense.(they weren't gonna let that trend continue for long). 0 chance it will ever get that low again, especially with these rules. nice try though buddy. the past 9 straight seasons have all been higher scoring than 1998 also, MJ's last title. MJ showed he could win in a higher scoring league & a grind it out lower scoring league

Drexler never scored 30 ppg, but in the past 10 years he could have if he was in his prime. 06 i'm thinking, where there were 3 30 ppg guys & the 4th was 29.3 ppg(that never happened in MJ's era, 3 30+ in 1 year, because handchecking & the old rules made 1 on 1 scoring harder), Drex would have been #4, Wilkins for sure as well. Kobe couldn't score much until handchecking was banned

i'm not getting into anymore back & forth on this issue though, nobody is gonna change their mind. i simply think the rules should have stayed the same so it's fair for all the players from the past, & to judge talent based on the same rules. it makes sense. and unlike you fellas i respect all eras very much, this one as well, while you guys dog out the 80s & 90s & ruin any credibility with that kinda bias

also i'm pukey sick of this runnin to the circle to draw a charge BS they've been pullin the past decade. it's so lame, & usually they're still movin a bit when the offensive guy hits them. it's such a sissy move, the 90s didn't even have that dumb circle, & it was for the better. take that back out too.

and yes let the defensive guy go straight up & challenge the shot in the air without it always being a foul, jeeesh. as long as he doesn't hit their hand/arm/wrist/head

HYFR
06-16-2013, 07:56 AM
Dumbest thread of the year?

Nick O
06-16-2013, 10:31 AM
loooooool why cause they make it work?

gwrighter
06-16-2013, 10:36 AM
Then maybe we should also get rid of travelling...oh wait.

NJrockPD
06-16-2013, 11:18 AM
It also came after they outlawed hand-checks, making it easy to get by perimeter defenders. If you want to watch a game that goes up to 140 with nothing but dunks go check the Globetrotters. Frankly, if LBJ is doubled it just means that a long-distance shooter should be open, right? Theoretically, breaking a zone is easy as a couple fast swings and hitting the open shots that ensue. The ball moves faster than the defense 100% of the time.

Exactly.

waveycrockett
06-16-2013, 12:40 PM
Pops and Thibs mastered the zone. The Mavs won the 2011 Finals because of the zone. I dont know why more coaches aren't implementing it.

A Black Prophet
06-16-2013, 12:53 PM
Shaquille O'neal & Hakeem Olajuwon were better. also the lowest scoring year in nba history was 1999, with handchecking, & no zone defense.(they weren't gonna let that trend continue for long). 0 chance it will ever get that low again, especially with these rules. nice try though buddy. the past 9 straight seasons have all been higher scoring than 1998 also, MJ's last title. MJ showed he could win in a higher scoring league & a grind it out lower scoring league

Drexler never scored 30 ppg, but in the past 10 years he could have if he was in his prime. 06 i'm thinking, where there were 3 30 ppg guys & the 4th was 29.3 ppg(that never happened in MJ's era, 3 30+ in 1 year, because handchecking & the old rules made 1 on 1 scoring harder), Drex would have been #4, Wilkins for sure as well. Kobe couldn't score much until handchecking was banned

i'm not getting into anymore back & forth on this issue though, nobody is gonna change their mind. i simply think the rules should have stayed the same so it's fair for all the players from the past, & to judge talent based on the same rules. it makes sense. and unlike you fellas i respect all eras very much, this one as well, while you guys dog out the 80s & 90s & ruin any credibility with that kinda bias

also i'm pukey sick of this runnin to the circle to draw a charge BS they've been pullin the past decade. it's so lame, & usually they're still movin a bit when the offensive guy hits them. it's such a sissy move, the 90s didn't even have that dumb circle, & it was for the better. take that back out too.

and yes let the defensive guy go straight up & challenge the shot in the air without it always being a foul, jeeesh. as long as he doesn't hit their hand/arm/wrist/head

Hakeem is not a better overall player then lebron lebron is a better scorer and offensive player Ill give hkeem slight edge on d. shaq was more dominate but lebron is the more complete player. Dont use the accolade arguement when comparing players I dont care if lebron hasnt retired ill still give him the edge over both. And know im not bias towards the 80s and 90s I just feel that defense is much more complex now compared to the 80s and 90s look at how much dominique mj attacked the basket

Byronicle
06-16-2013, 01:07 PM
lol sounds like the OP is frustrated by Pop's defense

mrblisterdundee
06-16-2013, 04:43 PM
Are you seriously suggesting dropping an effective defensive scheme because it makes life harder for stars? Grow up.

Chronz
06-16-2013, 05:12 PM
Pops and Thibs mastered the zone. The Mavs won the 2011 Finals because of the zone. I dont know why more coaches aren't implementing it.

They are. We tried something similar we just couldn't sustain the effort for the full 82.

Tony_Starks
06-16-2013, 10:22 PM
They are. We tried something similar we just couldn't sustain the effort for the full 82.

A lot of coaches don't have the stones to commit to it. Pop, Doc, Carlisle, and Larry Brown are the rare breed I've seen commit to it, not waver, and do it effectively.

I consider Hollins a excellent coach but he all but admitted the other day that the Spurs Zone on his bigs threw his game plan off...