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NeverSayNevur
06-09-2013, 10:37 PM
Does LeBron Disappear when there is too much pressure?

He was 2-11 at one point, but once Chalmers and Miller got the lead to 15+, he started scoring the ball.

In Cleveland, when things were go awry in the playoffs, he would disappear.

He joined Miami to get into a comfort zone mentally knowing that he was sharing the pressure with his 2 best friends in the league, Wade and Bosh.

So if LeBron is out of his comfort zone mentally or when things get too hard or challenging, does he tend to disappear?

feelingit
06-09-2013, 10:38 PM
He didn't join Miami to escape the pressure. He joined Miami to have all the best players on his team.

ChitownBears22
06-09-2013, 10:39 PM
During the 30-5 run LeBron was 3/3 8points 3 assists 4 rebounds. Wouldn't call that disappearing. It was his screen play that really killed the Spurs. Also 2 points for the starters in the 4th. Defense means something too.

OceanSpray
06-09-2013, 10:41 PM
Disappeared? Players have bad games. This is LeBron's one out of 20 bad games... What are you talking about? If you take into account of what he did at the end of the game, he didn't even have a totally bad game.

ManRam
06-09-2013, 10:41 PM
he had a bad game :laugh:

he's allowed one here or there. you watch the rest of these playoffs? he didn't disappear once before this...especially when everyone else was.

JerseyPalahniuk
06-09-2013, 10:41 PM
Game 6. Last year, down 2-3 to Boston. At Boston. The most pressured moment of his entire career. Scores 30 first half. Rest is history.

Etc. etc.

kdspurman
06-09-2013, 10:41 PM
Credit the Spurs defense... Making other guys beat them.

JerseyPalahniuk
06-09-2013, 10:43 PM
Read this article I just read. Lebron has entered a Zen zone as off late. Understands that basketball is a game first and foremost. A loss won't crush him.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/09/3441313/dan-le-batard-miami-heats-lebron.html


He talks about perspective, and how it is just basketball, this as fans fear and critics pounce/party, and the entire environment around him is polluted with the very opposite of the purity he is preaching, the Buddhist basketball monk mmmmmmeditating at news conferences in serenity’s search as those alarms wail and sprinklers rain.

It is like he knows or understands something the rest of us don’t, and he knows and understands it so surely and deeply that he isn’t going to be shaken by our sky-is-falling questioning. The sky probably isn’t going to fall, you know? This is how confidence talks, and it has been amazing to see his grow over just the past few years, but it isn’t quite as simple as the validation that comes with a king being crowned, either.

You remember what this guy was doing as feces rained down upon him before Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals last year, blueprint on the brink? He sat in the locker room reading a book, then produced a game that will echo through the ages, one of the best we’ve ever seen at the most preposterous and pressurized time.

JerseyPalahniuk
06-09-2013, 10:44 PM
Credit the Spurs defense... Making other guys beat them.

THIS. This isn't Lebron vs Team x. It's the Miami Heat vs the San Antonio Spurs.

bucketss
06-09-2013, 10:47 PM
game 6, 2012 ECF - on the road down 3-2 int he series, i don't even need to tell you what happened

NUFF SAID.

:cool:

More-Than-Most
06-09-2013, 10:48 PM
Fun Note DEFENSE does matter. Even when he has an off night offensively he is ridiculous defensively.

ChitownBears22
06-09-2013, 10:51 PM
Fun Note DEFENSE does matter. Even when he has an off night offensively he is ridiculous defensively.

Shhhhhh defense isn't in the boxscore. Duh.

Enemey
06-09-2013, 11:18 PM
So wait... Lebron had an off night and the Heat still won? I thought this was Miami Cavs. Does Lebron still needs more help?

OceanSpray
06-09-2013, 11:22 PM
So wait... Lebron had an off night and the Heat still won? I thought this was Miami Cavs. Does Lebron still needs more help?

Troll. It looked like Miami Cavs against the Pacers. He got help, what's wrong with that? Jordan was 1-10 without Pippen, clearly he had help.

Anyways, pressure huh? Fourth quarter, 4/4 FG, 4 assists leading to threes. No, he was pretty visible.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-09-2013, 11:24 PM
He cares too much of what people think about him.

He can take over a game but if there's failure, he is too sensitive to take it, despite the fact that failure is part of the nature of trying to take over.

Enemey
06-09-2013, 11:38 PM
Troll. It looked like Miami Cavs against the Pacers. He got help, what's wrong with that? Jordan was 1-10 without Pippen, clearly he had help.

Anyways, pressure huh? Fourth quarter, 4/4 FG, 4 assists leading to threes. No, he was pretty visible.

Yeah when the heat were already up by 15. He was at one point 2-11.

NYtilIdie
06-09-2013, 11:49 PM
Clowns like you amuse me. Its almost as if you just looked at the boxscore and said "hm, Lebron had an awful game! I should make a thread". You should watch the full game next time.

amos1er
06-10-2013, 12:06 AM
game 6, 2012 ECF - on the road down 3-2 int he series, i don't even need to tell you what happened

NUFF SAID.

:cool:

Stern happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zpeo2SQQVQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvMG7mZGo04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYNTmEYSMvY

amos1er
06-10-2013, 12:09 AM
Clowns like you amuse me. Its almost as if you just looked at the boxscore and said "hm, Lebron had an awful game! I should make a thread". You should watch the full game next time.

LMAO. All the "Lebron Purists" on this site are box score masters. Their entire defense of Lebron is based on box scores.

# hypocrisy

JerseyPalahniuk
06-10-2013, 12:12 AM
Stern happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zpeo2SQQVQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvMG7mZGo04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYNTmEYSMvY

hmmm i was expecting those videos to be actually about what he posted (Game 6 2012 ECF). I can do the same thing and post 25 other links of him dominating games, but I won't stoop down to your level.

JLynn943
06-10-2013, 12:13 AM
Right, because taking over against Chicago to reach the Finals two years ago, winning the championship last year, overcoming Indiana twice, none of those were pressure situations. Nor does defense or being a crucial part of why Miami's offense worked as successfully as it did tonight matter I guess.

I'd respect LeBron haters more if they once gave a consistent, coherent, logical argument. Not "omg LeBron isn't clutch" or "omg LeBron is a stat padder." Petty BS is all it ever amounts to.

amos1er
06-10-2013, 12:15 AM
hmmm i was expecting those videos to be actually about what he posted (Game 6 2012 ECF). I can do the same thing and post 25 other links of him dominating games, but I won't stoop down to your level.

Yet you took the time to post and inform me of this. :rolleyes:

seikou8
06-10-2013, 12:16 AM
LMAO. All the "Lebron Purists" on this site are box score masters. Their entire defense of Lebron is based on box scores.

# hypocrisy

biggest LeBron hater I ever seen damn:facepalm:

Mell413
06-10-2013, 12:30 AM
He had a bad game he is human after all. He certainly didn't look scared. He did other things to help the team win too.

naps
06-10-2013, 12:34 AM
LOL. So LeBron can't have a bad game? It was a bad game in terms of scoring since Spurs let the rest of the Heat beat them. He was instrumental of that run tonight. Mario and him were basically doing all the PnRs and he was making all the passes for Miller and Ray. Not to mention he was incredible on the defensive end.
He normally has only 2 or 3 games in a season which could be labeled as bad games (Even though those would be considered very good games for most stars). His consistency has been almost unprecedented. Let the guy catch a break.

naps
06-10-2013, 12:37 AM
biggest LeBron hater I ever seen damn:facepalm:

That troll basically lives on LeBron. He breathes LeBron, drinks LeBron, sleeps LeBron. There is nothing he knows on this planet besides logging into PSD and hate LeBron.

DirkDiggler6
06-10-2013, 12:38 AM
biggest LeBron hater I ever seen damn:facepalm:

The ignore button works wonders. hes never Written anything with any substancial value whatsoever

Chronz
06-10-2013, 12:41 AM
I cant believe this is what qualifies as disappearing for Bron now adays. wat a beast

seikou8
06-10-2013, 12:46 AM
That troll basically lives on LeBron. He breathes LeBron, drinks LeBron, sleeps LeBron. There is nothing he knows on this planet besides logging into PSD and hate LeBron.

and love kobe:D

naps
06-10-2013, 01:04 AM
and love kobe:D

Well, he used to. Those days are gone. Now he's too busy with LeBron to be in love with Kobe.

greg_ory_2005
06-10-2013, 01:05 AM
In short, no.

Im_in_Mia_bish
06-10-2013, 01:42 AM
if lebron wouldnt have been doubled, would miller or chalmers got hot? youre not god, so to assume something is just stupid op. lets focus on what we do know.. the heat won and lebron hit plenty game winners this season.

thanks for baiting.

FraziersKnicks
06-10-2013, 06:51 AM
Game 6. Last year, down 2-3 to Boston. At Boston. The most pressured moment of his entire career. Scores 30 first half. Rest is history.

Etc. etc.

This.

LeBron dispelled rumours of his character in pressure situations with his performances in the playoffs last year. He also comes off his 2nd consecutive triple double in the Finals (after posting one to close out a series to win his 1st ring last year, which he was under more pressure than anyone in the NBA has ever been to win a title), he has a mediocre game in which he still manages to lead his team to a pivotal victory and people are questioning whether he disappears in big moments? Such a short memory here on PSD.

JordansBulls
06-10-2013, 07:03 AM
Troll. It looked like Miami Cavs against the Pacers. He got help, what's wrong with that? Jordan was 1-10 without Pippen, clearly he had help.

Anyways, pressure huh? Fourth quarter, 4/4 FG, 4 assists leading to threes. No, he was pretty visible.

MJ was 3-9 without Pippen going against

Bulls would have still probably been 1-9 against the 85 Bucks, 86 Celtics and 87 Celtics if you added Prime Pippen to those Bulls teams.

1985 Milwaukee Bucks --> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1985.html

PTS/G: 110.9 (11th of 23) ? Opp PTS/G: 104.0 (1st of 23)
SRS: 6.70 (1st of 23) ? Pace: 99.7 (19th of 23)
Off Rtg: 110.5 (6th of 23) ? Def Rtg: 103.6 (2nd of 23)
Expected W-L: 58-24 (2nd of 23)

#1 SRS Rating, #1 Opp PPG and #2 in Defense and #2 in Expected Win Loss (and this against a Rookie MJ)


1986 Boston Celtics --> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html (top 5 team all time, arguably greatest team ever)

PTS/G: 114.1 (8th of 23) ? Opp PTS/G: 104.7 (3rd of 23)
SRS: 9.06 (1st of 23) ? Pace: 101.2 (16th of 23)
Off Rtg: 111.8 (3rd of 23) ? Def Rtg: 102.6 (1st of 23)
Expected W-L: 63-19 (1st of 23)

#1 SRS Rating, #1 Def Rtg, #3 opp ppg, #1 Expected Win Loss (this against a 2nd year MJ who missed 64 games with a broken foot.
Jordan set the playoff record on Bird and the C's with 63 and averaged the following on Bird and the C's.

MJ vs. Boston, 1986: 44 pts/6 reb/6 ast/51% FG


1987 Boston Celtics --> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1987.html

PTS/G: 112.6 (6th of 23) ? Opp PTS/G: 106.0 (4th of 23)
SRS: 6.58 (3rd of 23) ? Pace: 98.6 (19th of 23)
Off Rtg: 113.5 (3rd of 23) ? Def Rtg: 106.8 (9th of 23)
Expected W-L: 57-25 (3rd of 23)

#3 SRS Rating, #4 Opp PPG. #3 Expected Win Loss. This is the only year you can say he had a chance to win a game or so.
But then again, one team had a triple allstar lineup in

Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish

And MJ was the only allstar on the squad.

MJ vs Boston, 1987: 36 pts/7 reb/6 ast/42% FG

Hell the 1987 Celtics would beat the 2011-2013 Miami Heat as well.


When Lebron got swept by the 2007 Spurs it was a similar type of team compared to the league, #1 SRS rating, Expected Win - Loss, etc. The difference is that Lebron played like absolute trash while MJ at least still dominated.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-Worst



LeBron James, Cleveland, 2007
Cavs vs. Spurs -- James' PER 14.3
The King's first Finals visit wasn't a memorable one. Bruce Bowen hounded him into 35.6 percent shooting, and James committed 5.8 turnovers per game as San Antonio swept the Cavs in four. It didn't help that he couldn't get a whistle as he tried to draw a foul on a last-second 3-point try at the end of Game 3.
And we are talking about a team where they were overmatched, not something where he was the #1 seed and the other team was the #2 seed. Hell MJ never scored less than 22 points in a finals game.

JordansBulls
06-10-2013, 07:06 AM
The spurs are playing Lebron smart. They are playing him so that others beat the Spurs, which is what you want to do if you are going against the MVP.

koreancabbage
06-10-2013, 08:44 AM
he did all the little things when he wasn't getting it on offense.

he set those nice picks (one was called for offensive when Parker slammed into him, which was ridiculous) for his PGs that let Chalmers get free.

He had a very mediocre game for his standards but a great game in any other player.

He sparked that run when Wade and Bosh were on the bench - how did he disappear?

Swashcuff
06-10-2013, 09:10 AM
Credit the Spurs defense... Making other guys beat them.

The Team Defense of San Antonio last night on LeBron, AH MAZE ING. He had one open look all game long and that came on the 3 on the top of the key when the Heat were making everything and the defense collapsed inside in an attempt to stop the bleeding. Pop did a great job of planning and the Spurs did an even better job of executing too bad however the 'others' did the damage where LeBron couldn't.

BklynKnicks3
06-10-2013, 10:44 AM
HE IS OFTEN A GHOST IN BIG GAMES. lETS BE REAL HERE THE GAME WAS OVER AND HE PAD HIS STATS. THIS IS NOW THE 7TH TIME IN 17 GAME HE HAS LESS THEN 20 IN THE PLAYOFFS

kdspurman
06-10-2013, 10:55 AM
The Team Defense of San Antonio last night on LeBron, AH MAZE ING. He had one open look all game long and that came on the 3 on the top of the key when the Heat were making everything and the defense collapsed inside in an attempt to stop the bleeding. Pop did a great job of planning and the Spurs did an even better job of executing too bad however the 'others' did the damage where LeBron couldn't.

Exactly. I think it'll be the same to start Game 3, and if the others are hitting their shots again, they might readjust their game plan. But if I'm Pop, I stick with it. Make anyone but Lebron beat you. What more could you ask for, especially after a 7 game series, continue to make him work for everything and make his life as difficult as possible.

Give Lebron credit too, more times than not he's making the right play when the defense collapses on him.

Redskins10
06-10-2013, 10:58 AM
HE IS OFTEN A GHOST IN BIG GAMES. lETS BE REAL HERE THE GAME WAS OVER AND HE PAD HIS STATS. THIS IS NOW THE 7TH TIME IN 17 GAME HE HAS LESS THEN 20 IN THE PLAYOFFS

Yeah, if he was a truly the best player in the league he'd have 20 points on 40 shots like Melo, right?

BklynKnicks3
06-10-2013, 11:02 AM
Melo never took 40 shots in a game this year. Come with facts. Melo score 17 and his team probably gets killed 9 of 10 times
Yeah, if he was a truly the best player in the league he'd have 20 points on 40 shots like Melo, right?

Hawkeye15
06-10-2013, 01:00 PM
the opposite actually. No player is better under pressure.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2013, 01:01 PM
Melo never took 40 shots in a game this year. Come with facts. Melo score 17 and his team probably gets killed 9 of 10 times

right, because that means Melo missed around 15 attempts, and we all know he can't set anyone up or disrupt a game defensively, so yes, if Melo is not scoring efficiently, he is essentially hurting his team.

You are almost beginning to understand some of the simple concepts of basketball on accident.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2013, 01:03 PM
The Team Defense of San Antonio last night on LeBron, AH MAZE ING. He had one open look all game long and that came on the 3 on the top of the key when the Heat were making everything and the defense collapsed inside in an attempt to stop the bleeding. Pop did a great job of planning and the Spurs did an even better job of executing too bad however the 'others' did the damage where LeBron couldn't.

for sure. They are imploding into the paint the moment he sets the ball on the ground, and he has a man coming at him when the ball is in the air on the catch. The Spurs will give up open looks by role players all day versus giving Bron looks, and if Miami's shooters are hitting, the Heat win this series.

koreancabbage
06-10-2013, 01:04 PM
Melo never took 40 shots in a game this year. Come with facts. Melo score 17 and his team probably gets killed 9 of 10 times

lets get this straight.

Lebron: 4 Finals appearances

Carmelo: 0 Finals appearances

lets get our facts straight.

Okay, we know you hate Lebron. everyone knows it. now shut the **** up. you're one of the reasons why PSD is going to the **** hole.

RiLoc
06-10-2013, 01:53 PM
I think LeBron only scoring 17 is overblown when you consider that he played a pivotal role in the run that decided the game.

And I'm just going to point out that since 1986 (full stat lines searches are not available before 1986 at basketball-reference), a stat line of 17pts, 8reb, 7ast, 3blk, 3stl hasn't happened. (source (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=blk&c1comp=gt&c1val=3&c2stat=stl&c2comp=gt&c2val=3&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=7&c4stat=trb&c4comp=gt&c4val=8&order_by=pts))

Heatcheck
06-10-2013, 02:26 PM
Theyre doing the SAME thing the Mavs did two years ago, except lebron now has a plethora of options to defer to, in contrast to just wade and bosh.

Lim
06-10-2013, 04:40 PM
lol lebron is the only player in history to get critizied after getting a triple double. **** is a joke. guy can win 5 rings and ppl will still have **** to say. get over it ppl he is going to go down as top 5 of all time

Big Zo
06-10-2013, 04:42 PM
I think people's brains disappear when they talk about LeBron.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 04:51 PM
He tends to defer more, is that disappearing? Most say yes, lebron fans say no.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 04:53 PM
He tends to defer more, is that disappearing? Most say yes, lebron fans say no.

Offense is half of the game. I guess everyone failed to watch him play defense when Miami went on a 33-5 run to close out the game. The starters scored 2, i repeat 2 points, in the fourth quarter in 6 minutes of playing time.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 04:53 PM
I think people's brains disappear when they talk about LeBron.

A lot of heat fans disappear when the team loses...

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 04:56 PM
A lot of heat fans disappear when the team loses...

I didn't see any regular heat poster disappear. Please show proof or you are a liar.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:04 PM
I didn't see any regular heat poster disappear. Please show proof or you are a liar.

Opinions are lies? Sure bud.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:06 PM
Opinions are lies? Sure bud.

Well when you state your opinion as fact to make a fanbase look bad, then yes. 8Kobe24 is a liar.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:08 PM
Offense is half of the game. I guess everyone failed to watch him play defense when Miami went on a 33-5 run to close out the game. The starters scored 2, i repeat 2 points, in the fourth quarter in 6 minutes of playing time.

His effort on the defensive end is not in question. Imagine if his teammates missed all those shots, would you not question his abilities to carry this team offensively?

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:09 PM
Well when you state your opinion as fact to make a fanbase look bad, then yes. 8Kobe24 is a liar.

I'm sorry man, did I offend you?! I didn't say all heat fans disappear, I said A LOT of heat fans disappear. And I'm not talking about the decent heat posters on PSD. Just the bandwagon.

If you feel I lied about my opinion of a lot of heat fans, then that's YOUR opinion.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:10 PM
His effort on the defensive end is not in question. Imagine if his teammates missed all those shots, would you not question his abilities to carry this team offensively?

That didn't happen though. His defense created offense.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:10 PM
That's your opinion.

No that is a fact. You stated something without proof, therefore you are a liar.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:19 PM
No that is a fact. You stated something without proof, therefore you are a liar.

lol, so no proof = a lie?
Is that your opinion?

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:21 PM
lol, so no proof = a lie?
Is that your opinion?

You fail to present proof. Therefore it is false, presented as fact. And in turn.............wait for it............a lie.

SportsFanatic10
06-10-2013, 05:22 PM
lol lebron can do no right in some people's eyes.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:33 PM
You fail to present proof. Therefore it is false, presented as fact. And in turn.............wait for it............a lie.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
If you are trying to find "proof", and you don't find it, does that mean there is no "proof"?
...like I said. OPINION.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:34 PM
lol lebron can do no right in some people's eyes.

Not true. He played good defense yesterday, sparked all kinds of good stuff right?

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:35 PM
Not true. He played good defense yesterday, sparked all kinds of good stuff right?

Yes, and apparently that is disappearing to you. But no one knows your definition of disappearing since you state HEAT fans disappeared after the game 1 loss, when we didn't.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:36 PM
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
If you are trying to find "proof", and you don't find it, does that mean there is no "proof"?
...like I said. OPINION.

Which you passed off as fact. Opinions aren't spoken as fact.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:39 PM
Which you passed off as fact. Opinions aren't spoken as fact.

Or maybe you passed it off for me because you feel offended by my OPINION.

mightybosstone
06-10-2013, 05:42 PM
This thread is complete nonsense. Anyone who has watched Lebron in last year's championship run or in this year's postseason thus far would know otherwise. And while Lebron certainly did not have one of his best games last night, the man was absolutely integral to their monster run in the second half. Whether it was his defense, his penetration or his passing, he was totally instrumental in the Heat winning that game.

If you want to make this point, at least make it when the Heat lose and Lebron plays inexcusably bad. Except that pretty much never happens, so good luck waiting for it.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:43 PM
Yes, and apparently that is disappearing to you. But no one knows your definition of disappearing since you state HEAT fans disappeared after the game 1 loss, when we didn't.

Help yourself towards failure trying to find where I stated that "lebron disappeared".

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:45 PM
Or maybe you did because you feel offended by my OPINION.

No. You stated he disappeared, he didn't. If he disappeared he would have had a presence on defense. HE wouldn't have been 3/3 8pts 3asts 4 rebounds duing the 33-5 run. He was very much a huge part of the blowout.

Your other opinion of HEAT fans disappearing was wrong because myself, justinmn, slug3, and others all posted after the loss. No one disappeared.

Thus leading me to believe you don't understand what that word means.

MarkieMark48
06-10-2013, 05:46 PM
I think people's brains disappear when they talk about LeBron.

Lol

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:46 PM
Help yourself towards failure trying to find where I stated that "lebron disappeared".

8Kobe24 did LeBron disappear?

Let me remind you of your original statement:


He tends to defer more, is that disappearing? Most say yes, lebron fans say no.

Big Zo
06-10-2013, 05:52 PM
A lot of heat fans disappear when the team loses...

And whenever LeBron is mentioned, Kobephiles appear. Never fails.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 05:55 PM
8Kobe24 did LeBron disappear?

Let me remind you of your original statement:

Yes that is my statement, And it says..."he tends to defer".... and then, I questioned whether that was disappearing? Then I stated most say yes, lebron fans say no.

Where did I say he disappeared? WTM? Can't understand simple English? Or do you just see what you want to see?

Now lets go back to schooling you with (lies, facts, opinions, blah blah blah)
Your claim is a lie, due to the fact that you supplemented evidence that is false. Who's the liar, really?
Go take a nap.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 05:56 PM
Yes that is my statement, And it says..."he tends to defer".... and then, I questioned whether that was disappearing? Then I stated most say yes, lebron fans say no.

Where did I say he disappeared? WTM? Can't understand simple English? Or do you just see what you want to see?

Now lets go back to schooling you with (lies, facts, opinions, blah blah blah)
Your claim is a lie, due to the fact that you supplemented evidence that is false. Who's the liar, really?
Go take a nap.

Defer means what exactly?

You still haven't answered the question. Did lebron disappear?

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 06:01 PM
And whenever LeBron is mentioned, Kobephiles appear. Never fails.

Big Zo, do you fall into the category of "a lot" or "most heat fans" or "bandwagoners"...I certainly don't think so, I certainly hope not. I got no beef with you, relax.

Kobephile since 96, Laker fan since 85.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 06:09 PM
Big Zo, do you fall into the category of "a lot" or "most heat fans" or "bandwagoners"...I certainly don't think so, I certainly hope not. I got no beef with you, relax.

Kobephile since 96, Laker fan since 85.

Did you like Kobe when he was on the Hornets?

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 06:12 PM
Defer means what exactly?

You still haven't answered the question. Did lebron disappear?

He relied a lot on his teammates to make the shot he has created for them. Is that disappearing? Like I said, go back to the original statement, and without making any assumptions (because of my username) and tell me I said he disappeared?

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 06:12 PM
Did you like Kobe when he was on the Hornets?

ha. learn your history b4 you make stupid comments.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 06:14 PM
ha. learn your history b4 you make stupid comments.

He was a Hornet, am I wrong?

Sandman
06-10-2013, 06:16 PM
He was 2-11 at one point, but once Chalmers and Miller got the lead to 15+, he started scoring the ball.
Sounds like guys need to knock down shots or LeBron is going to get 3x teamed

In Cleveland, when things were go awry in the playoffs, he would disappear.
Sounds like things go awry when he isn't playing well i.e. nothing else going for that team

He joined Miami to get into a comfort zone mentally knowing that he was sharing the pressure with his 2 best friends in the league, Wade and Bosh.

So if LeBron is out of his comfort zone mentally or when things get too hard or challenging, does he tend to disappear?
See A and B. These teams are built around LeBron. The situation in Cleveland a little different, it was a bunch of skilled but misfit players whose roles made more sense when LeBron filled in those gaps. Here its an injured Wade and an overmatched Bosh, as hes always been against decent bigs.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 06:18 PM
He was a Hornet, am I wrong?

Sure was, out of the blue, Lakers lucked out on a trade right?lol

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 06:21 PM
Sure was, out of the blue, Lakers lucked out on a trade right?lol

So I was right. Were you a fan of him when he was a Hornet?

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 06:30 PM
So I was right. Were you a fan of him when he was a Hornet?

Let me clarify before you spin in into something stupid.

Kobe, sure was a hornet for about 5 minutes. Then Lakers traded for him.

I was a fan the minute I saw footage of him on draft night while playing at Lower Merion/McD's All-American, because I knew he was gonna be good. I was that much more excited when he got traded to my fav team.

Is there a problem? Or are you already trying to find ways to spin this?

bucketss
06-10-2013, 06:33 PM
Sure was, out of the blue, Lakers lucked out on a trade right?lol

lets not give LA too much credit, that was kobe and his agents doing.

8kobe24
06-10-2013, 06:35 PM
lets not give LA too much credit, that was kobe and his agents doing.

I don't think it was any secret to how we got kobe, hence the "lol" at the end of my sentence...

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 06:37 PM
lets not give LA too much credit, that was kobe and his agents doing.

Because Kobe was a big baby. Just like in the mid 2000's when he wanted out of LA to play in Chicago, because Kobe couldn't do it by hisself. Had to get Gasol to help him win.

Kobe fans = hypocrites

Fail to remember their history, when calling LBJ a baby for leaving the Cavs. Even though he did it when his contract was up. He didn't force a trade. He gave management the time to get free agents that fit their system, which they failed to do. (ex: Amare for JJ Hickson trade)

Tony_Starks
06-10-2013, 07:07 PM
He does but I credit this one more to the Spurs defense than him choking. Pop is basically hitting with double teams and a sliding zone. Giving him jumpers and shutting down the paint.

Tony_Starks
06-10-2013, 07:16 PM
ha. learn your history b4 you make stupid comments.

Don't waste time, Kobe haters make up their own history. Leave it to them they'll have you believe Kobe singlehandedly orchestrated his trade and signing Shaq before he ever played one game.

If you tell them that Jerry West had been scouting him for years and was convinced he was the next sensation, even though people were saying he would basically be another Harold Miner they would never believe you.

Purple_n_Gold
06-10-2013, 07:35 PM
Man there sure are a lot of NBA insiders in this thread. Who ever knew all the inside stories about players could be found here. It's funny that these insiders know for a fact events that transpired behind closed doors. Why are so many of you wasting time in here? I see many future broussards around.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 07:38 PM
Man there sure are a lot of NBA insiders in this thread. Who ever knew all the inside stories about players could be found here. It's funny that these insiders know for a fact events that transpired behind closed doors. Why are so many of you wasting time in here? I see many future broussards around.

What team are you going to follow in 2 years?

Purple_n_Gold
06-10-2013, 07:44 PM
Because Kobe was a big baby. Just like in the mid 2000's when he wanted out of LA to play in Chicago, because Kobe couldn't do it by hisself. Had to get Gasol to help him win.

Kobe fans = hypocrites

Fail to remember their history, when calling LBJ a baby for leaving the Cavs. Even though he did it when his contract was up. He didn't force a trade. He gave management the time to get free agents that fit their system, which they failed to do. (ex: Amare for JJ Hickson trade)
Since you repeat yourself over and over with history that is untrue can you finally validate your theory of Kobe forcing a trade to the Lakers? Real LAKER fans know that this was actually an agreement made weeks prior to draft date. Jerry west saw Kobe work out and was more impressed than he ever had been. So Jerry orchestrated the trade ahead of time for the pick. The Hornets didn't know who the Lakers wanted them to select until draft day when they told them. Please stop presenting your theories as facts because it is ridiculous. You are the same as the Kobe fans you like to bag on except you are at the opposite end of the spectrum but the same never the less. Both extremes are ruining this forum. That applies to Lebron lovers and haters as well.

Purple_n_Gold
06-10-2013, 07:50 PM
What team are you going to follow in 2 years?
The same team I have been a fan of since I was born. The same team I grew up watching with my dad. The same that destroys your favorite team for years at a time. The Lakers. Kobe is on the Lakers, I like him, if he wasn't I'd give two *****. . How bout you? I know I must be a bandwagon fan because you know it all insider. Bandwagoning a team that barely makes the playoffs is the new trend. Sorry but that doesn't work this year. I will be the same Laker fan here when you have already changed your hat 10 times buddy. So tell me how does a Chicago fan become a heat fan?

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 07:51 PM
The same team I have been a fan of since I was born. The same team I grew up watching with my dad. The same that destroys your favorite team for years at a time. The Lakers. How bout you? I know I must be a bandwagon fan because you know it all insider. Bandwagoning a team that barely makes the playoffs is the new trend. Sorry but that doesn't work this year. I will be a the same Laker fan here when you have already changed your hat 10 times buddy. So tell me how does a Chicago fan become a heat fan?

When they move from Chicago to Florida and their grandparents print the tickets for the HEAT. duh

Purple_n_Gold
06-10-2013, 07:54 PM
When they move from Chicago to Florida and their grandparents print the tickets for the HEAT. duh
Sounds about right alpha dog. Good job.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-10-2013, 10:06 PM
Does LeBron Disappear when there is too much pressure?

He was 2-11 at one point, but once Chalmers and Miller got the lead to 15+, he started scoring the ball.

In Cleveland, when things were go awry in the playoffs, he would disappear.

He joined Miami to get into a comfort zone mentally knowing that he was sharing the pressure with his 2 best friends in the league, Wade and Bosh.

So if LeBron is out of his comfort zone mentally or when things get too hard or challenging, does he tend to disappear?
Lebron had a ****** game, but the stat padding at the end of the game will tell you he had a pretty decent game.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Lebron had a ****** game, but the stat padding at the end of the game will tell you he had a pretty decent game.

Played great defensively. And was key to the blowout and the 33-5 run. Guess you missed that part though. He played 2 minutes longer than SA starters to finish the game and in that time hit 1 shot, 1.

amos1er
06-10-2013, 10:27 PM
Lebron had a ****** game, but the stat padding at the end of the game will tell you he had a pretty decent game.

:clap:

I was saying the very same thing yesterday!!!

Check out the in game thread from yesterday...things got pretty intense.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?822281-NBA-Finals-Game-2-San-Antonio-Spurs-Miami-Heat-6-9-13-8-00-PM-SA-leads-1-0/page32

That block by Lebron was such bs too. It came in garbage time against a second tier player. Good block, but waaay over hyped. Much like "King James".

amos1er
06-10-2013, 10:39 PM
Not all the time, but he has been know to from time to time. More often that not actually. The thing with James is that he just isn't the guy all these nutthuggers think he is. There was a lot of hype and there still is, he just hasn't honestly lived up to it. It always seems like the media is trying to do a selling job on us all when they describe him. If he was really that good, his skills would speak for themselves and the media wouldn't have to try and sell anybody. He is a great player, but not quite in that MJ, Kobe, Magic, or Bird conversation. Could he be...maybe, but doubtful. I just don't see that iron determination and killer instinct in Lebron that I see in those guys. I could be wrong and it's only my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

mngopher35
06-10-2013, 10:52 PM
To me the biggest difference from Lebron and some other players he is compared to is his willingness to get others involved, especially when he is having an off night (this can be to a fault). When Lebron isn't having a great scoring night he will try and do a lot of different things on the court and take less of a scoring load. He does this by becoming a passer, screener, decoy, cutter etc on offense (while still bringing his defense and rebounding). So to many he will "disappear" at times when others are playing well and he is a little off that night. Now in contrast what other players would do in his situation is try to shoot their way out of their funk. So while some players have bad nights by becoming "chuckers", Lebron instead tends to "disappear" because he just switches his style of play and becomes less aggressive than we are used to seeing.

To me him disappearing too much is just something hyped up a lot by a few people as an exaggeration, just like how some people try and say he isn't clutch by using a few examples.

Tony_Starks
06-10-2013, 11:05 PM
To me the biggest difference from Lebron and some other players he is compared to is his willingness to get others involved, especially when he is having an off night (this can be to a fault). When Lebron isn't having a great scoring night he will try and do a lot of different things on the court and take less of a scoring load. He does this by becoming a passer, screener, decoy, cutter etc on offense (while still bringing his defense and rebounding). So to many he will "disappear" at times when others are playing well and he is a little off that night. Now in contrast what other players would do in his situation is try to shoot their way out of their funk. So while some players have bad nights by becoming "chuckers", Lebron instead tends to "disappear" because he just switches his style of play and becomes less aggressive than we are used to seeing.

To me him disappearing too much is just something hyped up a lot by a few people as an exaggeration, just like how some people try and say he isn't clutch by using a few examples.

I really didn't think his game was that bad when you look at it all around. The thing is people want to compare him to the MJ/ Kobe types that when the going gets tough will just hit you for 40 points. He's not that type of player. A healthy D Wade is more that type of player. But Lebron doesn't have to score to be effective....

Hawkeye15
06-10-2013, 11:08 PM
I really didn't think his game was that bad when you look at it all around. The thing is people want to compare him to the MJ/ Kobe types that when the going gets tough will just hit you for 40 points. He's not that type of player. A healthy D Wade is more that type of player. But Lebron doesn't have to score to be effective....

Numbers have shown how overrated Kobe's clutch ability really is dude. Cmon. Why are people still clinging to that, and even throwing his closing minutes effectiveness into MJ's category? Because of nba.com's GM survey?

Tony_Starks
06-10-2013, 11:14 PM
To me the biggest difference from Lebron and some other players he is
compared to is his willingness to get others involved, especially when he is having an off night (this can be to a fault). When Lebron isn't having a great scoring night he will try and do a lot of different things on the court and take less of a scoring load. He does this by becoming a passer, screener, decoy, cutter etc on offense (while still bringing his defense and rebounding). So to many he will "disappear" at times when others are playing well and he is a little off that night. Now in contrast what other players would do in his situation is try to shoot their way out of their funk. So while some players have bad nights by becoming "chuckers", Lebron instead tends to "disappear" because he just switches his style of play and becomes less aggressive than we are used to seeing.

To me him disappearing too much is just something hyped up a lot by a few people as an exaggeration, just like how some people try and say he isn't clutch by using a few examples.


Numbers have shown how overrated Kobe's clutch ability really is dude. Cmon. Why are people still clinging to that, and even throwing his closing minutes effectiveness into MJ's category? Because of nba.com's GM survey?

Come on we've been through this. "Clutch" doesn't take into account what a certain player had to do to even keep the game close in the first place. The numbers are flawed because theyre basically just based off a last second shot.

But anyway my point is Lebron is not a "volume scorer" so just looking at his stats doesn't tell the whole story. Similar to when you just look at Kobe's stats they don't tell the whole story.....

Hawkeye15
06-10-2013, 11:18 PM
Come on we've been through this. "Clutch" doesn't take into account what a certain player had to do to even keep the game close in the first place. The numbers are flawed because theyre basically just based off a last second shot.

But anyway my point is Lebron is not a "volume scorer" so just looking at his stats doesn't tell the whole story. Similar to when you just look at Kobe's stats they don't tell the whole story.....

Kobe doesn't belong with MJ in that conversation. At all. Fact. His team drops to crap when games are tight late.

Now, if you want to define clutch some other way, fine. I think the word is ridiculous.

mngopher35
06-10-2013, 11:23 PM
I really didn't think his game was that bad when you look at it all around. The thing is people want to compare him to the MJ/ Kobe types that when the going gets tough will just hit you for 40 points. He's not that type of player. A healthy D Wade is more that type of player. But Lebron doesn't have to score to be effective....

Well for his standards it was a bad game, but I get your point. He did help spark that run with a few plays, and was helping the team in other ways (and letting players like wade/bosh go to work when they were doing well) so it wasn't horrible.

I agree that Lebron is not the type of player that just goes out and drops 40 in 3 straight games or something. He generally takes what is given to him and does the best to maximize that whether it is for himself or his teammates. It is one of the things I like most about watching him play, yet can be frustrating at times when it seems like he should be more aggressive. That is kind of what my post is getting at as well, he is just a totally different player than a jordan or kobe (who he gets compared to a lot). He has so many different ways to impact a game that he doesn't always take over scoring load like those two players. This leads to him being labeled as "disappearing" after a bad game, while those two might get called "ballhogs" when they have one. Different styles of play.

rocket
06-10-2013, 11:26 PM
he didn't disappear when he hit back to back go ahead and game winning shots vs the Pacers when the heat were down.

rocket
06-10-2013, 11:27 PM
The only thing I don't like LeBron is when the pressure is on he needs to take over the ****ing game.

mngopher35
06-10-2013, 11:32 PM
Come on we've been through this. "Clutch" doesn't take into account what a certain player had to do to even keep the game close in the first place. The numbers are flawed because theyre basically just based off a last second shot.

But anyway my point is Lebron is not a "volume scorer" so just looking at his stats doesn't tell the whole story. Similar to when you just look at Kobe's stats they don't tell the whole story.....

I agree that numbers, especially in the clutch, don't tell the whole story. That being said I think some people completely overrate certain players clutch ability, and some certainly do this with kobe.


Kobe doesn't belong with MJ in that conversation. At all. Fact. His team drops to crap when games are tight late.

Now, if you want to define clutch some other way, fine. I think the word is ridiculous.

I understand why it is important for a player to be clutch but think it is totally overblown/misused/whatever word I cant think of. People throw out the term like crazy, using totally different situations, backing it up with single examples etc. To be completely honest I don't think there is a super significant difference in the clutch ability between a lot of different star players. People exaggerate it a ton imo.

Hawkeye15
06-10-2013, 11:35 PM
I agree that numbers, especially in the clutch, don't tell the whole story. That being said I think some people completely overrate certain players clutch ability, and some certainly do this with kobe.



I understand why it is important for a player to be clutch but think it is totally overblown/misused/whatever word I cant think of. People throw out the term like crazy, using totally different situations, backing it up with single examples etc. To be completely honest I don't think there is a super significant difference in the clutch ability between a lot of different star players. People exaggerate it a ton imo.

Clutch is a term I simply don't buy into. It can't be proven, because there are a million definitions that people use to fit their agenda. Give me the best overall basketball player for 48 minutes anyday over the guy who has the highest percentage of last second shots, which make up a grand total of 3 minutes a year.

LOOTERX9
06-11-2013, 12:53 AM
lebron is suspect out on the floor some times. he over passes a lot during times he should be shooting. You never know what lebron will show up in these games

seikou8
06-11-2013, 01:10 AM
lebron is suspect out on the floor some times. he over passes a lot during times he should be shooting. You never know what lebron will show up in these games

this is asinine

jerellh528
06-11-2013, 04:07 AM
He doesn't disappear completely he just defers so just incase he made a wrong move or misses a shot in crunch time he won't be scrutinized by the media or public, he seems to care more about image than winning. He's a great stats guy though!

RiceOnTheRun
06-11-2013, 05:07 AM
Cares more about image than winning?

Lebron's a smart dude. Smart enough to know when people have a better shot than him. For example, Ray Allen has a far better chance of hitting that game winning three than he does. Dwyane Wade should have a better chance at making a layup than he does at a mid jumper. He only cares about winning. He'll go for whatever is the best look they have on the court. He knows he's getting scrutinized regardless, so he's going for what's best for the team. That's why he blocks out the media during playoffs now, he doesn't listen to what they have to say because at the end of the day, he knows best.

BklynKnicks3
06-11-2013, 09:37 AM
in the finals lebron career avg is 21.9 and wades is 26.7. Now that wade is hurt people want to beat him up. Whats lebrons excuse for turning into iggy for half his finals games. How can the mvps team be up in the nba finals by 10 going into the 4th when he is 3-11. He had a nice block up and and soem garbage tiem baskets and his fans make it seem like he was good. He was strait garbage when the game was close he got some front runner baskets. Its like when arod hits homeruns for yankees up 5 to 1. I made a thread with all facts and it got closed and everyones come back where taking shots at Melo. Who ever said Melo was better Lebron put himself in a situation where he is going to win chips even if he doesnt play well.Funny how Lebron is considered a great scorer with his 27ppg for his career but in the finals he shrinks. I didnt know when u state the facts its trolling

Slug3
06-11-2013, 09:53 AM
in the finals lebron career avg is 21.9 and wades is 26.7. Now that wade is hurt people want to beat him up. Whats lebrons excuse for turning into iggy for half his finals games. How can the mvps team be up in the nba finals by 10 going into the 4th when he is 3-11. He had a nice block up and and soem garbage tiem baskets and his fans make it seem like he was good. He was strait garbage when the game was close he got some front runner baskets. Its like when arod hits homeruns for yankees up 5 to 1. I made a thread with all facts and it got closed and everyones come back where taking shots at Melo. Who ever said Melo was better Lebron put himself in a situation where he is going to win chips even if he doesnt play well.Funny how Lebron is considered a great scorer with his 27ppg for his career but in the finals he shrinks. I didnt know when u state the facts its trolling

Can you tell me what his averages where in last years finals please?

BklynKnicks3
06-11-2013, 10:43 AM
28.6 10 and 7.4 he had on 47% While Kd avg 30.6 on 54% 6 boards and 2 assists they where about even Harden lack of production is what cost thunder. Yea lebron had a great finals. Out of 17 finals games how many lebron level games did he have 5 or 6? out of 17. Thats real big time way to pick out his best series but avoid all the stains. There is a reason his avg is 21.9 even with that big series vs okc
Can you tell me what his averages where in last years finals please?

TheIlladelph16
06-11-2013, 10:58 AM
I'm just sitting at my desk laughing at the nonsense like "they were about even" in reference to Durant and Lebron in the finals. I swear your arguments continually get dumber and dumber.

koreancabbage
06-11-2013, 11:01 AM
28.6 10 and 7.4 he had on 47% While Kd avg 30.6 on 54% 6 boards and 2 assists they where about even Harden lack of production is what cost thunder. Yea lebron had a great finals. Out of 17 finals games how many lebron level games did he have 5 or 6? out of 17. Thats real big time way to pick out his best series but avoid all the stains. There is a reason his avg is 21.9 even with that big series vs okc

so its all about scoring eh?

thats why you are a turd. He's not a scorer. never known as a scorer first. when you use PPG as the only explanation on why Lebron disappears, then you know nothing about the game.

BklynKnicks3
06-11-2013, 11:18 AM
Lebron assists will always be there. So will his rebounds his the primary ball handler on every team he is on he never played with a real pg he is the pg they usually get a pg to play with him that is more of a spot up shooter like chalmers mo williams boobie gibson. His lack of scoring is why he has a losing record in the finals. (7 and 10) including the historic choke vs dallas. How do u have 8 points in 47 minutes in a finals game smh
so its all about scoring eh?

thats why you are a turd. He's not a scorer. never known as a scorer first. when you use PPG as the only explanation on why Lebron disappears, then you know nothing about the game.

sammyvine
06-11-2013, 11:45 AM
Kobe doesn't belong with MJ in that conversation. At all. Fact. His team drops to crap when games are tight late.

Now, if you want to define clutch some other way, fine. I think the word is ridiculous.

no play belongs with mj bar kareem and magic

mjm07
06-11-2013, 11:51 AM
Lebron assists will always be there. So will his rebounds his the primary ball handler on every team he is on he never played with a real pg he is the pg they usually get a pg to play with him that is more of a spot up shooter like chalmers mo williams boobie gibson. His lack of scoring is why he has a losing record in the finals. (7 and 10) including the historic choke vs dallas. How do u have 8 points in 47 minutes in a finals game smh

That was inexcusable. LBJ definitely underperformed/choked etc etcetc in 2011(Theres not much defending him there) and was outclassed /outmanned in 07 against the Spurs. . But now he's on the verge/competing for his 2nd title with the HEAT. I know it hurts seeing your biggest rival continue to win while your franchise continues to make FA mistakes over and over and over again. Continue your hating on the past failures of others i hope it consoles somewhat while your team continues lets you down once again. Meantime i'll be enjoying this amazing ride while it lasts. Win or lose. GO HEAT MOFO!!

Hangtime
06-11-2013, 01:26 PM
I think Lebron has came through in a lot of pressure situations. He was even great when they lost to Boston back in 08 in that seven game series. His crowning moment had to be the Pacers and Celtics series just last year when they were down in those series. By far his most disappointing performance was the 2011 finals. Still confused about that one.

koreancabbage
06-11-2013, 01:57 PM
Lebron assists will always be there. So will his rebounds his the primary ball handler on every team he is on he never played with a real pg he is the pg they usually get a pg to play with him that is more of a spot up shooter like chalmers mo williams boobie gibson. His lack of scoring is why he has a losing record in the finals. (7 and 10) including the historic choke vs dallas. How do u have 8 points in 47 minutes in a finals game smh

Kobe with game 3 2004 Finals. Kobe goes 4 for 13 with 11 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, and 4 turnovers

I like how you have to bring up a win-loss record for Lebron when its a team game.

This really shows me that you don't know anything about basketball.

jerellh528
06-11-2013, 11:13 PM
yes

Hawkeye15
06-11-2013, 11:21 PM
yes

short sample size?

still1ballin
06-11-2013, 11:25 PM
Yes!

NYKalltheway
06-11-2013, 11:25 PM
One thing is for certain, he's a much better and calmer RS player than Playoffs player. I've seen Karl Malone getting the piss for allegedly underperforming in the playoffs, why does Lebron always get a pass?

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-12-2013, 12:07 AM
short sample size?

It's funny when it comes to Kobe u find every little thing to crap on him but if lebron is playing like **** you give him a pass lol wow

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-12-2013, 12:08 AM
One thing is for certain, he's a much better and calmer RS player than Playoffs player. I've seen Karl Malone getting the piss for allegedly underperforming in the playoffs, why does Lebron always get a pass?

Because PSD loves to suck his dick and think he's the GOAT!

jerellh528
06-12-2013, 12:09 AM
Yes!
http://images.wikia.com/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

DirkDiggler6
06-12-2013, 12:10 AM
He's choking

cmellofan15
06-12-2013, 12:12 AM
Guys, it's only game 3. He still has time.

DirkDiggler6
06-12-2013, 12:15 AM
Guys, it's only game 3. He still has time.

Its the nba finals. Every game counts. Hes been playing like sh** and stat padding in the fourth quarter since game one. If he hasnt picked it up by game three he wont pick it up, and if he does itll probably already be too late, cuz if the heat dont win the next game, its over

LAKERS4LIFE!!
06-12-2013, 12:35 AM
Kobe with game 3 2004 Finals. Kobe goes 4 for 13 with 11 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, and 4 turnovers

I like how you have to bring up a win-loss record for Lebron when its a team game.

This really shows me that you don't know anything about basketball.

I'm not saying that Lebron is choking or isn't but c'mon what kind of example is that. Kobe wasn't in his prime then and was the second option of the team. Lebron is in his prime and is definitely the #1 option.

bucketss
06-12-2013, 12:40 AM
this thread is going to look stupid after game 4, everyone is in for a huge surprise.

ArmLaker
06-12-2013, 12:41 AM
LeBron is practically the epitome of choking. This is his 4th finals appearance in what is likely going to be his 3rd loss. How do you not dismantle SA with a star-studded cast? To be honest I'm amazed at how bad he's doing after having such a great run last year.

bucketss
06-12-2013, 12:50 AM
LeBron is practically the epitome of choking. This is his 4th finals appearance in what is likely going to be his 3rd loss. How do you not dismantle SA with a star-studded cast? To be honest I'm amazed at how bad he's doing after having such a great run last year.

lmao star studded my ***, do you see the miami roster? open your eyes.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 12:52 AM
lmao star studded my ***, do you see the miami roster? open your eyes.

Best part of Heat fans is how they conveniently flip flop on this. When they are dominating they want to boast about the loads of talent, a supposedly elite bench, unstoppable roster. Yet when they lose they cry about not having ENOUGH talent and how Lebron is doing it all on his own. Seriously man the F up Heat fans.

macc
06-12-2013, 12:54 AM
Lol at all the Lebron Haters. The guy has a bad game and people are all over him. This is a terrible game for him and yet he still scores 15 pts 11 rebounds and 5 assists. It's funny how people have such short term memories. Lebron is the most complete basketball player of all time. I think that should be his title at this point. He does it all, impacts every game he plays in, even if his shot isn't falling.

This is only game 3. If he goes off in the next game he'll get put on a pedistal. Stop being prisoners of the moment. Just appreciate the game. I'm not even a Miami fan but I respect great players and I'm not going to jump off the bandwagon because of one semi human game.

bucketss
06-12-2013, 12:55 AM
Best part of Heat fans is how they conveniently flip flop on this. When they are dominating they want to boast about the loads of talent, a supposedly elite bench, unstoppable roster. Yet when they lose they cry about not having ENOUGH talent and how Lebron is doing it all on his own. Seriously man the F up Heat fans.

1. im not a heat fan
3. lebron is not doing it on his own, but wade is no longer a star anymore. lets be real

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 12:57 AM
1. im not a heat fan
3. lebron is not doing it on his own, but wade is no longer a star anymore. lets be real

Not saying you are. That post was for the people making excuses in general. Wade may not be a top 5 player but in general he's absolutely still a star. Hell mid-late season people were putting him back in the top 5 players. Just because he folded in the playoffs doesn't mean we get to act like Lebron is talent deprived SMH.

shep33
06-12-2013, 12:57 AM
Meh, I don't blame LeBron really. Dude carried this squad this post season, and it seems to finally be wearing him down. Wade on the other hand is getting away with being horrible. If this were Kobe or Melo they'd be getting **** on constantly.

ztilzer31
06-12-2013, 12:59 AM
Best part of Heat fans is how they conveniently flip flop on this. When they are dominating they want to boast about the loads of talent, a supposedly elite bench, unstoppable roster. Yet when they lose they cry about not having ENOUGH talent and how Lebron is doing it all on his own. Seriously man the F up Heat fans.

False. You are explaining how the "Heat hater" mentality works. If the Heat are winning, it's because of how unfair their team is, and how they ruined basketball. If the Heat are losing, they are all bad, and Lebron James is a choke.

Also your last comment of "Seriously man the f up heat fans" is pretty funny. People always look so dumb when they try to insult, and can't even type what they want to say.

lol, please
06-12-2013, 01:00 AM
Lebron absolutely disappears when there is too much pressure.

Aust
06-12-2013, 01:00 AM
Meh, I don't blame LeBron really. Dude carried this squad this post season, and it seems to finally be wearing him down. Wade on the other hand is getting away with being horrible. If this were Kobe or Melo they'd be getting **** on constantly.

Yeah. Where are Wade and Bosh??

Chronz
06-12-2013, 01:01 AM
Not saying you are. That post was for the people making excuses in general. Wade may not be a top 5 player but in general he's absolutely still a star. Hell mid-late season people were putting him back in the top 5 players. Just because he folded in the playoffs doesn't mean we get to act like Lebron is talent deprived SMH.

Why not? Hes had a bad game, thats enough to stand on its own, but why cant we acknowledge context?

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 01:02 AM
False. You are explaining how the "Heat hater" mentality works. If the Heat are winning, it's because of how unfair their team is, and how they ruined basketball. If the Heat are losing, they are all bad, and Lebron James is a choke.

Also your last comment of "Seriously man the f up heat fans" is pretty funny. People always look so dumb when they try to insult, and can't even type what they want to say.

Actually it goes both ways. Sure some Heat hater trolls act that way. Not sure what's funny about asking Heat fans to just flat out admit they don't look like the better team right now and are getting exposed pretty badly. Your fellow Heat fans were talking SO MUCH before the series and I can bump a dozen threads showing this if you want. Heat are getting punched in the mouth.

bucketss
06-12-2013, 01:02 AM
Meh, I don't blame LeBron really. Dude carried this squad this post season, and it seems to finally be wearing him down. Wade on the other hand is getting away with being horrible. If this were Kobe or Melo they'd be getting **** on constantly.

agreed. but i think a little melo bashing is good for everyone;)

ztilzer31
06-12-2013, 01:04 AM
Lebron absolutely disappears when there is too much pressure.

Funny. Just like you'll dissapear after the playoffs :D! Can't wait till you stop pretending to watch basketball.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 01:04 AM
Why not? Hes had a bad game, thats enough to stand on its own, but why cant we acknowledge context?

That's why I'm not blaming Lebron. In fact not once have I criticized Lebron specifically in this series, but rather the Heat as a whole. Lebron's "bad" games are still great games for most players. I agree Wade+Bosh have been a far bigger issue. As a whole I still think the team is supremely talented to the point to where when Heat fans act like it's the Cavs all over again... it's a joke.

bucketss
06-12-2013, 01:06 AM
Not saying you are. That post was for the people making excuses in general. Wade may not be a top 5 player but in general he's absolutely still a star. Hell mid-late season people were putting him back in the top 5 players. Just because he folded in the playoffs doesn't mean we get to act like Lebron is talent deprived SMH.

hes not talent deprived, but miami is not a superteam anymore because wade is declining heavily. lebron still has good help though, so if he loses he loses.

ewmania
06-12-2013, 01:07 AM
He didn't join Miami to escape the pressure. He joined Miami to have all the best players on his team.

wade and bosh arent even in the top 10 of best players anymore

shep33
06-12-2013, 01:08 AM
It's weird watching Miami right now because it's as if we're watching the Cavs. I'm not saying they're the same on a talent level, but it's basically become LeBron high P&R, iso, or bust.

Spo needs to find a way to get Wade and Bosh going towards the basket.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 01:09 AM
hes not talent deprived, but miami is not a superteam anymore because wade is declining heavily. lebron still has good help though, so if he loses he loses.

Maybe not a superteam which honestly goes with my criticism of people acting like they are an all time great time. Although they still are absolutely a top 3 and elite team.

iam brett favre
06-12-2013, 01:09 AM
He got his ring last year. Don't expect too many more.

amos1er
06-12-2013, 01:12 AM
Lebron thus far...

16.6 ppg on 38.8% from the field.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 01:16 AM
Lebron thus far...

16.6 ppg on 38.8% from the field.

Like a BAWS.

shep33
06-12-2013, 01:17 AM
Lebron thus far...

16.6 ppg on 38.8% from the field.

Pretty shocking numbers.

ztilzer31
06-12-2013, 01:18 AM
Actually it goes both ways. Sure some Heat hater trolls act that way. Not sure what's funny about asking Heat fans to just flat out admit they don't look like the better team right now and are getting exposed pretty badly. Your fellow Heat fans were talking SO MUCH before the series and I can bump a dozen threads showing this if you want. Heat are getting punched in the mouth.

I'm a Sonics fan snookems. I watch the Heat because they are the funnest team to watch in the NBA, and the whiny fans on PSD made me start rooting for LBJ.

I still feel like the Heat are the better team. Spurs have gotten really hot beyond 3, and LBJ played really good in the first 2 games, but needs to pick up the scoring...

Also you act like the Heat are getting dominated. Spurs barely took a game in game one, Heat smashed spurs in game 2, Spurs smash Heat in game 3. It's a really close series. If the Heat take the next game then all of a sudden it looks like the series is in the Heat's favor...

I thought the Spurs were going to have problems too. I figured the Heat's perimeter defense would be too much. I didn't expect them to hit 90% or w/e from 3's... Not that I thought the Spurs were bad. I just thought the matchups favored the Heat. I discussed this with many Spurs fans, and had many fun discussion... You on the other hand are acting like a child with this HAHA NANA told you so ********. Grow up.

ArmLaker
06-12-2013, 01:18 AM
How is his supporting cast not star-studded? Himself, Wade, and Bosh is just about the strongest big three in the NBA right now. Miller, Chalmers, Ray Allen are all dead eye shooters and good role players. What the fvck is missing from LeBron that he can't do it? Substitute Kobe with LeBron in this Series and the Heat will take this in 6 at most, guaransheed.

lol, please
06-12-2013, 01:20 AM
I'm a Sonics fan snookems. I watch the Heat because they are the funnest team to watch in the NBA, and the whiny fans on PSD made me start rooting for LBJ.

I still feel like the Heat are the better team. Spurs have gotten really hot beyond 3, and LBJ played really good in the first 2 games, but needs to pick up the scoring...

Also you act like the Heat are getting dominated. Spurs barely took a game in game one, Heat smashed spurs in game 2, Spurs smash Heat in game 3. It's a really close series. If the Heat take the next game then all of a sudden it looks like the series is in the Heat's favor...

I thought the Spurs were going to have problems too. I figured the Heat's perimeter defense would be too much. I didn't expect them to hit 90% or w/e from 3's... Not that I thought the Spurs were bad. I just thought the matchups favored the Heat. I discussed this with many Spurs fans, and had many fun discussion... You on the other hand are acting like a child with this HAHA NANA told you so ********. Grow up.
I wish someone called me snookems. :sigh:

ztilzer31
06-12-2013, 01:22 AM
I wish someone called me snookems. :sigh:

Dude I hate you so much, but you are so ****ing adorable sometimes.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 01:23 AM
I wish someone called me snookems. :sigh:

IKR? I'm currently getting a semi from reading his romantic post. :p

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 01:30 AM
I'm a Sonics fan snookems. I watch the Heat because they are the funnest team to watch in the NBA, and the whiny fans on PSD made me start rooting for LBJ.

I still feel like the Heat are the better team. Spurs have gotten really hot beyond 3, and LBJ played really good in the first 2 games, but needs to pick up the scoring...

Also you act like the Heat are getting dominated. Spurs barely took a game in game one, Heat smashed spurs in game 2, Spurs smash Heat in game 3. It's a really close series. If the Heat take the next game then all of a sudden it looks like the series is in the Heat's favor...

I thought the Spurs were going to have problems too. I figured the Heat's perimeter defense would be too much. I didn't expect them to hit 90% or w/e from 3's... Not that I thought the Spurs were bad. I just thought the matchups favored the Heat. I discussed this with many Spurs fans, and had many fun discussion... You on the other hand are acting like a child with this HAHA NANA told you so ********. Grow up.


Eh nothing tells me the Heat are better. Spurs have been the more balanced team all year long AND don't depend on any specific player like the Heat. As you see... today the Big 3 for the Spurs has a subpar game and they win by 36. Could Lebron, Wade and Bosh have bad games and the Heat win by even 10? Spurs are too good at game planning to get beaten by one or two guys.

I don't see how the series is in the Heat favor if they tie it at 2-2 with 1 more game left in SA. I guess if you mean they steal back HCA it's true but I doubt they win 2 in a row in SA so at best in my eyes they go back to Miami down 3-2. It's VERY hard to beat this Spurs team 2 in a row.

What matchups did you think favored the Heat, because I've been saying for a couple years that Memphis and Spurs are two teams Miami does NOT want in the Finals due to matchups. It was being talked about early season how the Spurs are a terrible matchup.

The Spurs expose Miami's lack of size and post presence. The Spurs are so disciplined that the Heat's defensive scheme of turnovers/fastbreaks is not going to work consistently. AND the Spurs best wing defender happens to be one of the few guys big and strong enough to give Lebron problems? I mean I understand thinking Miami would win but I think the Spurs present more problems for Miami than the other way around. Miami's weakest positions are PG/PF/C and the Spurs strongest positions are PG/C.

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-12-2013, 01:33 AM
How is his supporting cast not star-studded? Himself, Wade, and Bosh is just about the strongest big three in the NBA right now. Miller, Chalmers, Ray Allen are all dead eye shooters and good role players. What the fvck is missing from LeBron that he can't do it? Substitute Kobe with LeBron in this Series and the Heat will take this in 6 at most, guaransheed.

Amen

amos1er
06-12-2013, 01:34 AM
How is his supporting cast not star-studded? Himself, Wade, and Bosh is just about the strongest big three in the NBA right now. Miller, Chalmers, Ray Allen are all dead eye shooters and good role players. What the fvck is missing from LeBron that he can't do it? Substitute Kobe with LeBron in this Series and the Heat will take this in 6 at most, guaransheed.

Couldn't have said it better my self.

kylem4711
06-12-2013, 01:38 AM
sure looks like it

Tony_Starks
06-12-2013, 01:39 AM
Is Lebron really pulling a Dallas finals part 2 on us? Damn say it aint so!

3RDASYSTEM
06-12-2013, 01:50 AM
HE IS OFTEN A GHOST IN BIG GAMES. lETS BE REAL HERE THE GAME WAS OVER AND HE PAD HIS STATS. THIS IS NOW THE 7TH TIME IN 17 GAME HE HAS LESS THEN 20 IN THE PLAYOFFS

LEBRON has clearly played more than 17 playoff games since joining MIAMI by itself

3RDASYSTEM
06-12-2013, 01:51 AM
Is Lebron really pulling a Dallas finals part 2 on us? Damn say it aint so!



You may be on to something

3RDASYSTEM
06-12-2013, 01:53 AM
Couldn't have said it better my self.

4 all stars and got swept out 2x in 3yrs, how is that not a star studded big time failure?

you sure could tell it a lot better if you follow la/bean like you claim

sjbirds
06-12-2013, 02:00 AM
He is settling for too many jumpers. I think I heard he has 6 ft in 3 games..he needs to drive more

ArmLaker
06-12-2013, 02:01 AM
4 all stars and got swept out 2x in 3yrs, how is that not a star studded big time failure?

you sure could tell it a lot better if you follow la/bean like you claim

By Star-Studded you mean Nash w/ his cane. Gasol on his last legs, Howard with back problems and a torn labrum, ****** support cast and No Kobe getting swept and losing to eventual champions SA?

ArmLaker
06-12-2013, 02:02 AM
He is settling for too many jumpers. I think I heard he has 6 ft in 3 games..he needs to drive more

That's all he can do consistently. Or make a bad pass to a teammate who's being guarded like no tomorrow. Once his athleticism fades in a couple of years, people are going to be quick to take him out the top 5-10 all-time lool

cmellofan15
06-12-2013, 02:10 AM
Let's not compare Kobe and LeBron. No way Kobe could account for LeBron's defensive prowess, rebounding or distributing at this point in his career.

Lakers + Giants
06-12-2013, 03:03 AM
4 all stars and got swept out 2x in 3yrs, how is that not a star studded big time failure?

you sure could tell it a lot better if you follow la/bean like you claim

stop slurping on the heat. its hilarious watching you try to hide the heats current struggles by bringing up the lakers. worry about the spurs right now, not us. talking about the lakers doesn't change the fact that heat are playing bad.

jam
06-12-2013, 03:13 AM
Kawhi is doing a phenomenal job. He doesn't have any magic tricks up his sleeve; he's simply playing great fundamental defense. He's always got a hand in lebron's face when he shoots a jump shot, and the spurs are doing a fantastic job of closing on lebron when he drives.

Lebron's done a good job of finding cutters and shooters when the defense closes around him, but overall, the spurs are doing an amazing job so far of keeping lebron in check.

He's averaging 16.7 ppg, a very pedestrian figure.

Bottom line is, san antonio is playing some extraordinary basketball on both offense and defense.

WITZ
06-12-2013, 03:19 AM
Danny Green has a total of more points scored than lebron in this series so far :speechless:

jerellh528
06-12-2013, 03:22 AM
Kawhi is doing a phenomenal job. He doesn't have any magic tricks up his sleeve; he's simply playing great fundamental defense. He's always got a hand in lebron's face when he shoots a jump shot, and the spurs are doing a fantastic job of closing on lebron when he drives.

Lebron's done a good job of finding cutters and shooters when the defense closes around him, but overall, the spurs are doing an amazing job so far of keeping lebron in check.

He's averaging 16.7 ppg, a very pedestrian figure.

Bottom line is, san antonio is playing some extraordinary basketball on both offense and defense.

Yeah take away lebrons 1 or 2 moves, bullrush the basket and fast break layup/dunk and Lebron is turned into a role player. He is nowhere near the "complete" player a lot of people make him out to be and his offensive arsenal is abysmal. He is superior athletically, that's what makes him great, not superior skills such as a Jordan, or Kobe. That's also why his prime will end in wadesque fashion. Just my opinion btw.

sammyvine
06-12-2013, 04:59 AM
hawkeye will be crying buckets if his precious lebron loses

amos1er
06-12-2013, 05:01 AM
Yeah take away lebrons 1 or 2 moves, bullrush the basket and fast break layup/dunk and Lebron is turned into a role player. He is nowhere near the "complete" player a lot of people make him out to be and his offensive arsenal is abysmal. He is superior athletically, that's what makes him great, not superior skills such as a Jordan, or Kobe. That's also why his prime will end in wadesque fashion. Just my opinion btw.

I agree. Lebron relies too much on his athletic ability to dominate. His bag of tricks isn't complete enough to match the longevity of a Kobe or Jordan. His peak years, much like Shaq, will be among the best of all time; mainly due to his natural gifts. His work ethic and determination, and killer instinct are good, but not in the elite class of players like Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, or Kareem.

Mcdoh
06-12-2013, 05:48 AM
nah.. spurs is probably just doing a good job against him..

Badluck33
06-12-2013, 07:00 AM
I know I'm gonna get the flame sax for this but if there is :20 left on clock and my team is down by 2, there are several players i'd like to give the ball to before I give it to LeBron.

jimm120
06-12-2013, 07:16 AM
As much as I don't like LeBron, I am NOT going to blame him for losses.

This guy does it all and it isn't "stat padding".

RLundi
06-12-2013, 07:26 AM
Couldn't have said it better my self.

:rolleyes:

RLundi
06-12-2013, 07:35 AM
I agree. Lebron relies too much on his athletic ability to dominate. His bag of tricks isn't complete enough to match the longevity of a Kobe or Jordan. His peak years, much like Shaq, will be among the best of all time; mainly due to his natural gifts. His work ethic and determination, and killer instinct are good, but not in the elite class of players like Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, or Kareem.

And how just how do you define or quantify killer instinct? What gives Kobe this killer instinct you speak of? That snarl face he makes? And many call LeBron one of the hardest workers in the league. I'm not sure what you're asserting here.

Just so you know, you don't have to compare Kobe and Bron in every single post. LeBron has markedly improved in his post-up skills, perimeter shooting and 3-point shooting. His bag of tricks is certainly enough.

I don't disagree that Kobe's skill set is made more for longevity (albeit at much lower efficiency as we've seen these past few years) than LeBron but to refer to him as not being elite in those areas is very subjective.

sunsfan88
06-12-2013, 07:46 AM
Why are the Laker fans the ones bashing the Heat the most?

Are they trying to take this opportunity to try and make the argument that Kobe is better than LeBron?

BigCityofDreams
06-12-2013, 08:00 AM
hawkeye will be crying buckets if his precious lebron loses

He's not going to cry because he doesn't seem like the type of person to do that. If they do lose he'll be shocked like the rest of us.

DanG
06-12-2013, 08:04 AM
LeBron is missing shots that he usually makes. I expect him to have a monster game thursday.

BigCityofDreams
06-12-2013, 08:16 AM
Why are the Laker fans the ones bashing the Heat the most?

Are they trying to take this opportunity to try and make the argument that Kobe is better than LeBron?

Some Laker fans are bashing the Heat because they are just returning the favor. Lebron is great and what he has done is impressive but when fans of other teams are going to take little digs at LA/Kobe then there is going to be some payback. I'm not talking about Lakers were bad this yr or you guys got swept. I'm talking about stuff like my friend said "Kobe's not the best player anymore I know that bothers you or Lakers are going to be one of the worst teams in the league."

Or when Kobe a player does something in a game and the next 2 or 3 ppl say Kobe couldn't do that or when has Kobe ever made that move.

NYKnickFanatic
06-12-2013, 08:16 AM
7-21 Efficient.

bucketss
06-12-2013, 08:19 AM
Yeah take away lebrons 1 or 2 moves, bullrush the basket and fast break layup/dunk and Lebron is turned into a role player. He is nowhere near the "complete" player a lot of people make him out to be and his offensive arsenal is abysmal. He is superior athletically, that's what makes him great, not superior skills such as a Jordan, or Kobe. That's also why his prime will end in wadesque fashion. Just my opinion btw.

and you call me an annoying troll? lmao

bucketss
06-12-2013, 08:24 AM
How is his supporting cast not star-studded? Himself, Wade, and Bosh is just about the strongest big three in the NBA right now. Miller, Chalmers, Ray Allen are all dead eye shooters and good role players. What the fvck is missing from LeBron that he can't do it? Substitute Kobe with LeBron in this Series and the Heat will take this in 6 at most, guaransheed.

maybe because wade sucks, and bosh is a solid big man now, idk why you mentioing the shooters, just because they're dead eye shooters doesn't make them stars. lmao kobe really? get off his nuts man i can't believe you just said that... btw his team enough to win, its just not a super team anymore, if lebron loses its still all on him.

feelingit
06-12-2013, 08:32 AM
LeBron went to Miami to stack a team and he did. What a coward. he doesn't even look to score or shoot in these Finals because he's got Miller, Allen, Battier and Bosh.

BALLER R
06-12-2013, 08:42 AM
He was too passive this game. Settling too much.

BALLER R
06-12-2013, 08:44 AM
If the heat are going down they need to go down with lebron shooting.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 09:05 AM
His confidence is easily shaken. I'm not sure its a 'biggest stage' thing or not, because he has proven he can go ham on the biggest stage as well, but he has way too much of a conscience and fears the consequences where guys like Kobe and MJ had zero conscience and if they were going down, they were going down swinging, LeBron seems content going down like a chump.

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 09:13 AM
he was horrible game 3 just like game 4, Only diff is his garbage time stats came in a loss. 3-13 up 10 in game 2, 2-12 down 17 game 3. Awful his assists will always be there and they mean nothing if they lose and he cant put his stamp on games. Guy fold on the biggest stage like no other player i ever seen.

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 09:15 AM
really whats lebrons best game in the finals in 18 games now? with his breath taking 7 and 12 record
His confidence is easily shaken. I'm not sure its a 'biggest stage' thing or not, because he has proven he can go ham on the biggest stage as well, but he has way too much of a conscience and fears the consequences where guys like Kobe and MJ had zero conscience and if they were going down, they were going down swinging, LeBron seems content going down like a chump.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 09:23 AM
he was horrible game 3 just like game 4, Only diff is his garbage time stats came in a loss. 3-13 up 10 in game 2, 2-12 down 17 game 3. Awful his assists will always be there and they mean nothing if they lose and he cant put his stamp on games. Guy fold on the biggest stage like no other player i ever seen.

Everyone saying 'LeBron did all he could, he has no help'

His teammates saved the day in game 2 when he came out playing the same brand of shook basketball.

I gave LeBron his props when he was the only one showing up vs Indy, and he single handedly brought him to the Finals, but this is a guy we compare to the GOAT, he can't continue to literally play like a goat in the Finals and lose twice as a favorite and still get that sort of all-time recognition.

Nobody can say 'he did all he could' last night just like they couldn't say that in 2011. This is a guy who puts up 28-8-8 in his sleep and now when that turns into 15-10-5 were supposed to say 'well he still had a great game by anyone else's standards!'

Newsflash, this dude ain't 'anyone else'. Your production falling into a toilet on the biggest stage AGAIN is not ok if you want to be compared to the greatest ever.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 09:25 AM
Is it that he struggles with veteran savvy? Because he had no problem ousting and dominating a bunch of college kids in OKC last year, but against the Mavs and Spurs his mental 'edge' falls into the toilet and it looks like he knows he's going to lose way before it even comes close to fruition.

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 09:38 AM
truth about okc is lebron did play well. So did kd west was good as well. Diff is harden didnt show up. every game was close except 1 and in one of the games lebron got away with foulin kd witth the game on the line
Is it that he struggles with veteran savvy? Because he had no problem ousting and dominating a bunch of college kids in OKC last year, but against the Mavs and Spurs his mental 'edge' falls into the toilet and it looks like he knows he's going to lose way before it even comes close to fruition.

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 09:41 AM
More food for thought about the shrinking King.

through 19 nba finals games Jordan 14-5 Kobe 13-6 lebron 7-12 lmao

I am sure someone will say how Kobe had shaq ok fine Kobe 19 games no shaq 10-9

wait it gets better Wade through 19 games 11-8. Theres a missing King 10,000 reward

sammid21
06-12-2013, 09:44 AM
And this arguement can be made in the "How LBJ would fair in the 80s and 90s" There was tons more presure from the gameplay, let alone the finals. He hasnt scored over 20 points in the finals this year. He is still a great player, but folds when he gets pressured

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 09:48 AM
truth about okc is lebron did play well. So did kd west was good as well. Diff is harden didnt show up. every game was close except 1 and in one of the games lebron got away with foulin kd witth the game on the line

I'm not even talking about the results of the games as much as LeBron's mindset, confidence, mental edge and production vs OKC compared to Dallas and SA.

BigCityofDreams
06-12-2013, 09:49 AM
His confidence is easily shaken. I'm not sure its a 'biggest stage' thing or not, because he has proven he can go ham on the biggest stage as well, but he has way too much of a conscience and fears the consequences where guys like Kobe and MJ had zero conscience and if they were going down, they were going down swinging, LeBron seems content going down like a chump.

There maybe some truth to that. I think at times Lebron has a little Manning, A-rod(04-08), Wilt in him.

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 10:07 AM
Lebron cant shoot on bigstages if u dont turn the ball over and give him dunks and double team him in the post. You are at a big advantage just let him shoot half the time she wont even take the shot its crazy. He has to be the worst shooting wing superstar i ever seen in my time. He struggled from the outside most of last years playoffs too.

PleaseBeNice
06-12-2013, 10:48 AM
Stern happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zpeo2SQQVQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvMG7mZGo04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYNTmEYSMvY

A laker fan bringing up officiating. I've seen it all

PleaseBeNice
06-12-2013, 10:49 AM
Lebron cant shoot on bigstages if u dont turn the ball over and give him dunks and double team him in the post. You are at a big advantage just let him shoot half the time she wont even take the shot its crazy. He has to be the worst shooting wing superstar i ever seen in my time. He struggled from the outside most of last years playoffs too.

What did he shoot from 3 this year?

PleaseBeNice
06-12-2013, 10:51 AM
More food for thought about the shrinking King.

through 19 nba finals games Jordan 14-5 Kobe 13-6 lebron 7-12 lmao

I am sure someone will say how Kobe had shaq ok fine Kobe 19 games no shaq 10-9

wait it gets better Wade through 19 games 11-8. Theres a missing King 10,000 reward
Melo 0-0 in finals

8kobe24
06-12-2013, 10:53 AM
short sample size?

straight to the point.

Jarvo
06-12-2013, 10:58 AM
He doesn't, He just try and get his teammates involved so he doesn't carry the load.

8kobe24
06-12-2013, 10:59 AM
Melo 0-0 in finals

wow, you can't get any more irrelevant than this statement.

8kobe24
06-12-2013, 11:03 AM
And how just how do you define or quantify killer instinct? What gives Kobe this killer instinct you speak of? That snarl face he makes? And many call LeBron one of the hardest workers in the league. I'm not sure what you're asserting here.

Just so you know, you don't have to compare Kobe and Bron in every single post. LeBron has markedly improved in his post-up skills, perimeter shooting and 3-point shooting. His bag of tricks is certainly enough.

I don't disagree that Kobe's skill set is made more for longevity (albeit at much lower efficiency as we've seen these past few years) than LeBron but to refer to him as not being elite in those areas is very subjective.

Point is, no matter how improved he is, he goes poof along with his bag of tricks.

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 11:04 AM
why does every lebron fan bring up Melo when everyone knows lebron is better and has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more help
Melo 0-0 in finals

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 11:05 AM
Lebron really is the king senfeild had a whole episode about him called shrinkage lmao

8kobe24
06-12-2013, 11:06 AM
maybe because wade sucks, and bosh is a solid big man now, idk why you mentioing the shooters, just because they're dead eye shooters doesn't make them stars. lmao kobe really? get off his nuts man i can't believe you just said that... btw his team enough to win, its just not a super team anymore, if lebron loses its still all on him.

Finally, an original excuse.

ryang
06-12-2013, 11:08 AM
He is playing like a female. Anyone who says he's trying to get others involved well that's somewhat true but he is most definetly shrinking in a big way. When I hear Lebron being mentioned with Jordan or Bryant I laugh. Those two were assassins. Lebron simply is not.

Becks2307
06-12-2013, 11:11 AM
Lebron just seems like an anomaly to me.

We are used to great players being dominant, and he just isn't (at least when it matters the most)

Game 4 is HUGE for his career.

It's really crazy though that he goes from such gaudy stats to this.

ryang
06-12-2013, 11:13 AM
His attitude , Ora , approach to this series has been laughable. Never seen anything like it. He can't handle the trap, he can't find the open man when they triple team him and he can't even hit a shot when there playing off him like he's rondo. Duncan has been able to check him. Don't understand it. Mentally weak lately. Stand out by the 3 point line or pass every time you get it. Wade should slap him or go out to the post game interview and say I can't have Lebron struggle anymore like he did to bosh and wade against Indiana. Time to man up

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 11:21 AM
He doesn't, He just try and get his teammates involved so he doesn't carry the load.

He gets his teammates involved all season long but he still takes over offensively when he needs to and averages damn near 30 ppg. No excuse for playing considerably worse than his average day on the biggest stage for the 3rd time in 4 chances. He's able to get his teammates involved and still drop 30 in his sleep. This is not a matter of him just trying to get his teammates involved. This is his fragile mental state and easily shattered confidence being brought to the forefront on the biggest stage again.

Tony_Starks
06-12-2013, 11:21 AM
Next game is going to be huge for him. If he chokes again in that pivotal game he may very well go back to being "LeBrick"...."LeChoke"....etc.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 11:26 AM
Its not even that he's just shooting like crap, scoring inefficiently, or having a sub-par series. Its the fact that he wants no part of shooting the ball, wants no part of trying to take over the game offensively when its clear his team needs him to, and wants no part of even attempting to have a monster series. 'Just playing your game' isn't gonna be good enough against these guys, his team clearly needs him to dominate and he's shying away from that pressure and not even attempting to do it.

feelingit
06-12-2013, 11:30 AM
Its not even that he's just shooting like crap, scoring inefficiently, or having a sub-par series. Its the fact that he wants no part of shooting the ball, wants no part of trying to take over the game offensively when its clear his team needs him to, and wants no part of even attempting to have a monster series. 'Just playing your game' isn't gonna be good enough against these guys, his team clearly needs him to dominate and he's shying away from that pressure and not even attempting to do it.

Exactly at least when he was in Cleveland he was letting it fly. In 07 he shot even though LeBron can't shoot. Now that he went to Miami he's got a stacked team to shoot the ball because he's too much of a ***** to let it fly.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-12-2013, 11:56 AM
I agree. Lebron relies too much on his athletic ability to dominate. His bag of tricks isn't complete enough to match the longevity of a Kobe or Jordan. His peak years, much like Shaq, will be among the best of all time; mainly due to his natural gifts. His work ethic and determination, and killer instinct are good, but not in the elite class of players like Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, or Kareem.
+1

7-21 Efficient.
^

He is playing like a female. Anyone who says he's trying to get others involved well that's somewhat true but he is most definetly shrinking in a big way. When I hear Lebron being mentioned with Jordan or Bryant I laugh. Those two were assassins. Lebron simply is not.

:clap: Wow, solid post from a Heat fan.

Goose17
06-12-2013, 12:04 PM
No. He doesn't.

Simple answer to a simpletons question.

Out of interest, name three active players you think are better in the clutch?


Most Game-Tying/Go-Ahead FG in Playoffs (Final 24 Secs. of 4th Qtr/OT Since 2003-04)

LeBron James: 7-16
Kobe Bryant: 5-17
Kevin Durant: 5-12
Dirk Nowitzki: 5-12

LeBron is the first player in NBA postseason history with a triple-double and a buzzer-beater game winner in the same game.


During this years regular season alone;

LBJ's overall eFG% in the clutch was better than both Durant and Kobe.

He passed the ball significantly better in the clutch than both Durant and Kobe.

He had less turnovers in the clutch than both Durant and Kobe.

He rebounded better in the clutch than both Durant and Kobe.

feelingit
06-12-2013, 12:07 PM
Stats don't define players. Duncan never averaged more than 25 points a game. Kobe's FG% is kind of low.

Box scores don't make a player great. It's being a boss on the court that does.

ghettosean
06-12-2013, 12:37 PM
the opposite actually. No player is better under pressure.

Dirk says Hi!

http://mavsmag.com/dirk-vs-lebron-stats-in-4th-quarter/

JeremiahWing
06-12-2013, 12:37 PM
Disappear isn't the right word. He's not an instant offense kind of player, like Michael or Kobe, but a facilitator. When he makes a pass when you think he should shoot, it's one of two things. 1, he's an incredibly smart player. 2, he's not the greatest scorer ever, and may not have the eye of the tiger the way Michael and Kobe did.

JeremiahWing
06-12-2013, 12:38 PM
Stats don't define players. Duncan never averaged more than 25 points a game. Kobe's FG% is kind of low.

Box scores don't make a player great. It's being a boss on the court that does.

I mostly agree with this part.

JeremiahWing
06-12-2013, 12:40 PM
You're a moron.

First of all, those stats aren't "box scores". They're advanced statistics, mathematical and scientific FACT.

Secondly, stats don't define players but they're a strong indicator and a big part of analyzing their ability. Ignoring stats completely is damn right ******** and just as bad as the people who rely solely on them.

And finally, how do you measure clutch? He shoots better, rebounds better, creates plays better and plays defense better than both Kobe and Durant in the clutch... so what is it that makes him suck in the clutch exactly? He's not "being a boss" by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending better? Define "being a boss" it sounds like some ******** argument my 10 year old cousin would fall back on, get a grip child.

Advanced stats are theoretical, not factual. Lol. Not the way you want to come out of the gate after calling someone a moron...

Goose17
06-12-2013, 12:47 PM
Advanced stats are theoretical, not factual. Lol. Not the way you want to come out of the gate after calling someone a moron...

LOL what? They're fact. It's a FACT player X shot X % in game X of the finals.

It's a theory somebody missed three shots? It's not a fact?

You're talking about math. You understand math don't you?

Goose17
06-12-2013, 12:49 PM
I mostly agree with this part.

Then explain to me what "being a boss" means?

Clearly it's not scoring, rebounding, passing and defending better. So what is it?

BklynKnicks3
06-12-2013, 12:52 PM
It means when ur team needs u. U rise simple not my qoute but its common sense
Then explain to me what "being a boss" means?

Clearly it's not scoring, rebounding, passing and defending better. So what is it?

Goose17
06-12-2013, 12:54 PM
It means when ur team needs u. U rise simple not my qoute but its common sense

That's not an explanation, that's just re-wording what he already said.

Elaborate. How do you "rise up"?

Lebron scores better, passes better, defends better and rebounds better in the clutch than both Kobe and Durant.

So what is he NOT doing that both of these guys do which you consider "rising up"?

Be specific.

ryang
06-12-2013, 01:05 PM
He's shying away from the spurs. He is standing around hoping wade and bosh go off. I love the heat but defending his play this series is idiotic to say the least. Kobe is an assassin. Lebron is not. He doesn't have that cut throat mentality. He's shrinking and if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. I love the Heat always have and always will but if Lebron plays like this for the remainder of the series you can't defend him. Sure the spurs are playing good d but not this good. He can bounce back and he better if he is considered the best in the sport

Goose17
06-12-2013, 01:11 PM
He's shying away from the spurs. He is standing around hoping wade and bosh go off. I love the heat but defending his play this series is idiotic to say the least. Kobe is an assassin. Lebron is not. He doesn't have that cut throat mentality. He's shrinking and if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. I love the Heat always have and always will but if Lebron plays like this for the remainder of the series you can't defend him. Sure the spurs are playing good d but not this good. He can bounce back and he better if he is considered the best in the sport

Are you talking to me? I wasn't referring specifically to this series but in general. Because in general, Lebron has been better in the clutch than Kobe or Durant this year (and better than Kobe throughout their playoff careers).

I have to disagree with what you said about Lebron not being cut throat. People get it confused, Kobe was a volume scorer, that's what he did, Lebron is more well rounded.


He hasn't been particularly good in this series. But you're talking about three games, that sample size is far too small.

ztilzer31
06-12-2013, 01:12 PM
By Star-Studded you mean Nash w/ his cane. Gasol on his last legs, Howard with back problems and a torn labrum, ****** support cast and No Kobe getting swept and losing to eventual champions SA?

Dude I'm tired of Lakers with this lame *** excuse. I remember all of us were saying this before the season, and that you guys had no bench, and all of you were talking about a 70 win season...

I said you guys would be a 4 seed, and all of you jumped on me. Now you use this as an excuse? #Dumbestfansinsports

cmellofan15
06-12-2013, 01:14 PM
I think it's hilarious how you guys mention Kobe in the same breath as Jordan when you won't put LeBron there.

In the '04 finals Kobe had 4 games where he attempted more shots than his point total. 4 games where he shot below 40% :laugh2:

08' Finals...shoots below 32% for two games, 35% one game, and 38% in another. In the games he actually shot 48% & 60% they lost one and barely won the other. And let's not mention the 40 point massacre in Boston that ended the series...

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 01:18 PM
I think it's hilarious how you guys mention Kobe in the same breath as Jordan when you won't put LeBron there.

In the '04 finals Kobe had 4 games where he attempted more shots than his point total. 4 games where he shot below 40% :laugh2:

08' Finals...shoots below 32% for two games, 35% one game, and 38% in another. In the games he actually shot 48% & 60% they lost one and barely won the other. And let's not mention the 40 point massacre in Boston that ended the series...

Kobe shouldn't be mentioned with MJ but he never went out like a chump. If he was going out he was going out guns blazing, he wasn't going to go out like a timid little girl. He was at least going to TRY and will his team to victory.

This is way more about LeBron's obvious mental state out there, his indecisiveness, his timidness, his confusion of what he wants to do more than just not playing well. Kobe shot poorly but he was never scared to shoot it, never indecisive in his decisions, never hid from the pressure.

junion
06-12-2013, 01:18 PM
LeBron doesn't disappear when the pressure is too high, you disappear when LeBron plays well.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 01:20 PM
And LOL at the guy calling his stats 'facts'. Statistics in basketball are facts in their own right the same way two apples = 2 and 2 + 2 = 4, but the conclusions you draw using them are far from 'facts' and every single statistic you can throw out there has its flaws and absolutely none of them are supposed to be taken as fact without proper context. Might as well just say they are a number based off a manufactured formula, because thats the only fact.

ElChinoLatino
06-12-2013, 01:21 PM
Lol at the people measuring player greatness with "being a boss" and "rising up" in the court. Typical ignorant fan.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 01:26 PM
Before game 1:


"If you go under my pick-and-roll now, I'm going to shoot. And I'm confident I'm going to make every last one of them," James said. "I'm just more confident in my ability to shoot the ball."

Goose17
06-12-2013, 01:29 PM
And LOL at the guy calling his stats 'facts'. Statistics in basketball are facts in their own right the same way two apples = 2 and 2 + 2 = 4, but the conclusions you draw using them are far from 'facts'

What conclusions?

Lebron shoots the ball better in the clutch, mathematical fact.

Lebron rebounds the ball better in the clutch, mathematical fact.

Lebron plays better defense in the clutch, mathematical fact.

Lebron passes the ball better in the clutch, mathematical fact.

Lebron turns the ball over less in the clutch, mathematical fact.


Now tell me, if that doesn't make him better in the clutch^ what does?

They're mathematical fact, the conclusion you draw from them is up for interpretation like with all science, but you can't deny they are facts.

Please tell me what conclusion you draw from the facts I posted, other than Lebron being better in the clutch this season than Kobe and Durant?




Statistics tell you what has happened and help predict what might possibly happen. They can't tell you WHY these things happened.

ElChinoLatino
06-12-2013, 01:30 PM
Kobe shouldn't be mentioned with MJ but he never went out like a chump. If he was going out he was going out guns blazing, he wasn't going to go out like a timid little girl. He was at least going to TRY and will his team to victory.

This is way more about LeBron's obvious mental state out there, his indecisiveness, his timidness, his confusion of what he wants to do more than just not playing well. Kobe shot poorly but he was never scared to shoot it, never indecisive in his decisions, never hid from the pressure.

So pretty much if you shoot horrible and continuously keep hurting your team's chances to win the Finals, you should just keep shooting? In Kobe's case, of course, he can't do anything else other than chuck in other to score. In LeBron's case, it's entirely different. You see LeBron actually passes the ball and makes people around him better, he makes plays, he plays defense, he does all of this when he isn't having a good shooting night. He doesn't have to completely rely on shooting the ball ineffectively, he can do other things that can help improve his team's chances in winning.

LeperMessiah
06-12-2013, 01:30 PM
LeBron doesn't disappear when the pressure is too high, you disappear when LeBron plays well.

This made me lol for a good minute.

Goose17
06-12-2013, 01:31 PM
Kobe shouldn't be mentioned with MJ but he never went out like a chump. If he was going out he was going out guns blazing, he wasn't going to go out like a timid little girl. He was at least going to TRY and will his team to victory... Kobe shot poorly but he was never scared to shoot it, never indecisive in his decisions, never hid from the pressure.

That's a cop out.

And Kobe shot the ball because Kobe is a shooter, that's what he does, that's all he's ever done. His only role in his entire career is to catch and shoot. Lebron isn't a shooter, there is no comparison to be made.

Goose17
06-12-2013, 01:32 PM
So pretty much if you shoot horrible and continuously keep hurting your team's chances to win the Finals, you should just keep shooting? In Kobe's case, of course, he can't do anything else other than chuck in other to score. In LeBron's case, it's entirely different. You see LeBron when actually passes the ball and makes people around him better, he makes plays, he plays defense, he does all of this when he isn't having a good shooting night. He doesn't have to completely rely on shooting the ball ineffectively, he can do other things that can help improve his team's chances in winning.

This is the first post I've read in here that actually makes sense. I was losing faith in humanity for a second there.

Goose17
06-12-2013, 01:32 PM
Lol at the people measuring player greatness with "being a boss" and "rising up" in the court. Typical ignorant fan.

Thank you. I thought it was just me...