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View Full Version : Has Wade always been this bad af a jump shooter?



sunsfan88
06-09-2013, 12:25 AM
I'll admit it now, I don't watch Dwayne Wade much. It seems as if he has no confidence in his jump shots...almost every time he's been left open out in the perimeter, he's passed up on the shot only to drive in to a crowd and miss the shot or pass it up to someone else.

And then the times that he does take a jumper, its off...by a lot.

All of Wade's points in game 7 of the ECF and game 1 of the Finals came from offensive rebound putbacks, layups/dunks and floaters from inside the key.

So here's my question, has he always been this bad of a jump shooter?

Teams can guard him the same way they guard Rondo...and its certainly hurting the Heat spacing and is turning Bosh into a 3pt shooter which is the worst of it all.

This isn't a Wade bash thread. He's a great player, a former Finals MVP and a future HOFer. He's always been one of the better defender at his position and he's been an incredibly clutch player in the past. He can also get to the rim as well as anyone. But this is strictly about his jump shooting skills.

bucketss
06-09-2013, 12:39 AM
he stopped working with his trainer that got him one of the best mid range games in the league, he started working with lebron.

BKdoubleStacker
06-09-2013, 12:43 AM
he stopped working with his trainer that got him one of the best mid range games in the league, he started working with lebron.

wade has never had one of the best mid range games

Max.This
06-09-2013, 12:47 AM
I don't know if its form or just his knees that don't give him enough lift, but his shot has always been kind of flat. Steph curry, Dirk for example , they have a high arcing shot which allows a higher chance of making the shot due to the angle . Lebron takes smart shots because hes virtually unguarded at the three cause defenders play off cause their scared of the drive. If you watch his shots most of the time he gets soo much room that the defenders rarely ever touch his hand on the follow through to contest the shot. Its equivalent to us shooting in a gym by ourselves. Its such an illusion that he's a better shooter, he's just taking better shots

airronijordan
06-09-2013, 12:58 AM
he stopped working with his trainer that got him one of the best mid range games in the league, he started working with lebron.

wade has never had one of the best mid range games

He had a deadly midrange game in 2006. Ever since he had that shoulder injury in 2007, it's been awful.

Slug3
06-09-2013, 12:58 AM
He can get hot, but he is honestly not that great. He did have a respectable one for a few years. But it seems like it went down hill the last 2 years. But the simple answer is he has never been great.

Bulls_fan90
06-09-2013, 01:09 AM
One of the most overrated players in the NBA.

jon32
06-09-2013, 01:10 AM
wade is one of the all time most overrated players...

Jarvo
06-09-2013, 01:15 AM
He had one but Idk what happen to it, But I mean in Game 1 he attacked the rim just fine but went cold in the 4th.

RiLoc
06-09-2013, 01:24 AM
Yea, his shooting percentages for the playoffs have not been good on jump shots.

Wade's Jump Shooting:

3 to <10ft
12-13 Playoffs: 11-37 (.297)
12-13 Regular Season: 93-216 (.431)
11-12 All: 116-261 (.444)

10 to <16 ft
12-13 Playoffs: 11-27 (.407)
12-13 Regular Season: 54-146 (.370)
11-12 All: 82-199 (.412)

16 ft to <3-pt
12-13 Playoffs: 13-45 (.289)
12-13 Regular Season: 108-257 (.420)
11-12 All: 90-272 (.331)

3-pt
12-13 Playoffs: 1-4 (.250)
12-13 Regular Season: 17-66 (.258)
11-12 All: 25-90 (.278)

Sources:
Jump Shots for 12-13 Playoffs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=wadedw01&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=1&shot_type=JUMP_SHOThttp://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=wadedw01&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=0)
Jump Shots for 12-13 Regular Season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=wadedw01&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=0&shot_type=JUMP_SHOT)
Jump Shots for 11-12 Regular Season and Playoffs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=wadedw01&year_id=2012&shot_type=JUMP_SHOT)

Redskins10
06-09-2013, 02:01 AM
wade is one of the all time most overrated players...

Wade from 2006-2009 was only second to Lebron and the margin wasn't by much. Don't have revisionist history just because he's playing poor now.

SportsFanatic10
06-09-2013, 02:41 AM
One of the most overrated players in the NBA.


wade is one of the all time most overrated players...

lol haters.

SportsFanatic10
06-09-2013, 02:42 AM
his midrange game used to be pretty good back in the day, not really sure what happened to it. he shoots the ball way too flat now.

Shlumpledink
06-09-2013, 02:42 AM
His mid range game was pretty sweet in his first championship. It seemed like the mavericks couldn't stop him from getting all those free throw looks

Shlumpledink
06-09-2013, 02:43 AM
Wade from 2006-2009 was only second to Lebron and the margin wasn't by much. Don't have revisionist history just because he's playing poor now.

I hate to hear your other basketball opinions if you think wade was the second best player in the nba.

--23--
06-09-2013, 03:15 AM
Simply put he never had a jumper.

Also I don't know why people are saying he had a "deadly" jumper or even had one in 2006 because he didn't. That year he only shot 17% from three, 36% from 10-16 feet and 39% from 16-3pt range. His best year shooting the jumper was in 2009 which was also his best scoring year. Wade in 2009 31% from Three, 44% from 10-16ft and 41% from 16-3pt range.

SportsFanatic10
06-09-2013, 03:18 AM
I hate to hear your other basketball opinions if you think wade was the second best player in the nba.

he had a great case for it, especially in 08-09 for sure.

tredigs
06-09-2013, 03:36 AM
I hate to hear your other basketball opinions if you think wade was the second best player in the nba.
He had a very strong case as a top 3 player during that time. Not sure why you think it's absurd.

05/06 Finals MVP, lead the league in PER in 07, 2nd in '09 and again in 2010 (at 30.5 in '09 - which is a stat threshold Kobe never sniffed), 3rd in the following 2 seasons. He was putting up around 30/5/6 with great D in the playoffs despite getting bumped early due to generally carrying weak casts. Couple ALL D teams mixed in there with the All NBA's. Without question a top 5 player in that span, and you could argue 2nd/3rd/4th in multiple seasons.

naps
06-09-2013, 04:37 AM
I love the timing of the thread. Not to mention OP has a history of resenting the Heat and its players.

Shlumpledink
06-09-2013, 05:26 AM
He had a very strong case as a top 3 player during that time. Not sure why you think it's absurd.

05/06 Finals MVP, lead the league in PER in 07, 2nd in '09 and again in 2010 (at 30.5 in '09 - which is a stat threshold Kobe never sniffed), 3rd in the following 2 seasons. He was putting up around 30/5/6 with great D in the playoffs despite getting bumped early due to generally carrying weak casts. Couple ALL D teams mixed in there with the All NBA's. Without question a top 5 player in that span, and you could argue 2nd/3rd/4th in multiple seasons.

Finals mvp in a terribly one sided officiated finals.

There have been a number of players that I would put before Wade. If you are going by season performance than give me a year and I'll tell you players that were better for that year. Offhand I would say that Kobe, Chris Paul, Durant, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Duncan, and Nowitzki are better than him.

If you want to say wade is top 5 or 6 then that is fine, but to say he is second only to lebron is ridiculous. It's an affront to basketball intelligence, whether you just look at stats or whether you just watch games or whether you do a combination, how anyone other than the staunchest miami heat homer comes up with Wade being definitively second only to Lebron James is astonishing.

Wade put up big numbers on weak teams, easy to do when you look at other players who have done a similar thing, especially when you consider he played in the east when it was at it's weakest. If you don't believe that playing on weak teams inflates your numbers, then look at Chris Bosh. Sure, he's a talented big man. But his numbers were inflated by playing on a terrible toronto team.

sunsfan88
06-09-2013, 05:27 AM
I love the timing of the thread. Not to mention OP has a history of resenting the Heat and its players.

What? Show me one instance of me showing "resentment against the Heat and its players"?

Don't make up BS to try and diminish the topic. I have nothing against the Heat, I'm actually rooting for them to win the Finals.

DDynO
06-09-2013, 09:29 AM
In 08-09, Wade was at least the 2nd best player in the league. Next two years he was top 3.

xxplayerxx23
06-09-2013, 09:36 AM
Lol he never had a great jumper. But to say he is overrated in the past or wasn't a top player in the pass is stupid, prime wade was amazing.

whitemamba33
06-09-2013, 10:05 AM
I said this about Wade YEARS AND YEARS ago. Players that get by on athleticism eventually slow, and if they don't have a killer jump shot like MJ or Kobe, they fade away quicker.

LeBron will be next. His shooting numbers are good (great?) now because everyone in the league is afraid of him blowing by them and turning them into a poster. But once he slows down and defenders can keep a hand in his face, his jump shot will be fully tested and I don't think it will hold up the way that MJ and Kobe's did.

DoMeFavors
06-09-2013, 10:11 AM
I hate to hear your other basketball opinions if you think wade was the second best player in the nba.

he was def the 2nd best player in the league

king4day
06-09-2013, 10:11 AM
his midrange game used to be pretty good back in the day, not really sure what happened to it. he shoots the ball way too flat now.

It could be due to injuries where he doesn't get the same lift which is throwing him off. The other thing might be, when it was his team, he was able to do more, so maybe the rhythm of the game changing for him has effected him too.

3RDASYSTEM
06-09-2013, 10:31 AM
Yeah his J shot has always been suspect, his mid range he would go on hot stretches but no way could he shoot like a IVERSON-TMAC off dribble or off ball spotting up, its the reason why I called him a bigger version of IVERSON minus the skilled jumper/3pt shot, he attacks and keeps attacking and falling and getting up like IVERSON

And this is another case of you are who you are as a bball player until media superhype gets involved

like for instance when WADE actually had his mid range game going at high level, the media could have tricked you into thinking he was better shooter than he really ever was, but even they weren't dumb enough to go down that lane

WADE is the same exact player he was out of MARQUETTE, and that goes for every other player in nba history

deal with it because no PER or WS% can ever change it, nor rings

ZEKE is the same player with his 2 rings or not
RUSS is same with 11 or not
ALCINDOR is same with 6 or not
IVERSON is the same with 0 or 10 rings
BEAN wouldn't be top 15 alltime with 10 rings nor 5
STOCKTON wouldn't be better than MAGIC with 0 or 7rings
PARKER is not top 3 PG alltime because of 3 rings or 7rings

its like how dominant SERENA is in tennis, that's how I rate bball players, solo individual because imagine if SERENA had 4 other mates playing with her and it affected her individual dominance because they would all lose they matches but she would dominate hers

so should I hold her hostage? no she is showcasing her talents on the green and its clearly the best, regardless of grand slam titles or not

xxplayerxx23
06-09-2013, 11:20 AM
I said this about Wade YEARS AND YEARS ago. Players that get by on athleticism eventually slow, and if they don't have a killer jump shot like MJ or Kobe, they fade away quicker.

LeBron will be next. His shooting numbers are good (great?) now because everyone in the league is afraid of him blowing by them and turning them into a poster. But once he slows down and defenders can keep a hand in his face, his jump shot will be fully tested and I don't think it will hold up the way that MJ and Kobe's did.

Foolish. He shoots 40% from 3 and contuines to work on his game. Mj had no jump shot when he first started and it contuined to get better. Lebron won't slow down for a while

jaji10
06-09-2013, 11:57 AM
wade is one of the all time best sg.. but never was a great jump shooter.. that's why when you think of wade you always remember his athleticism, one of the best slashers.. and he gets a lot of his points from the free throw line.. that's the weakness of his game, his jump shot..

Swashcuff
06-09-2013, 02:01 PM
Finals mvp in a terribly one sided officiated finals.

There have been a number of players that I would put before Wade. If you are going by season performance than give me a year and I'll tell you players that were better for that year. Offhand I would say that Kobe, Chris Paul, Durant, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Duncan, and Nowitzki are better than him.

If you want to say wade is top 5 or 6 then that is fine, but to say he is second only to lebron is ridiculous. It's an affront to basketball intelligence, whether you just look at stats or whether you just watch games or whether you do a combination, how anyone other than the staunchest miami heat homer comes up with Wade being definitively second only to Lebron James is astonishing.

Wade put up big numbers on weak teams, easy to do when you look at other players who have done a similar thing, especially when you consider he played in the east when it was at it's weakest. If you don't believe that playing on weak teams inflates your numbers, then look at Chris Bosh. Sure, he's a talented big man. But his numbers were inflated by playing on a terrible toronto team.

Operative word in your post is actually just a letter "I". In terms of the basketball universe Wade was absolutely seen as a top 3 player in the game at his peak and rightfully so.

D-Leethal
06-09-2013, 02:07 PM
Wade was most definitely the 3rd best player in the league at one point. I would say Dwight was #2 at that time in '09.

whitemamba33
06-09-2013, 04:47 PM
Foolish. He shoots 40% from 3 and contuines to work on his game. Mj had no jump shot when he first started and it contuined to get better. Lebron won't slow down for a while

Your reply was foolish, and misguided.

Every NBA player is working on his game. Doesn't mean that everyone has the same ceiling. Like I said, LeBron's shooting numbers are very good right now, but things will change as soon as he loses the ability to drive past everybody.

You say he won't slow down for a while - look at Carter.

ChitownBears22
06-09-2013, 04:50 PM
I don't think Wade has ever been a great jumpshooter (opinion). He definitely has regressed.

Shlumpledink
06-09-2013, 05:06 PM
Operative word in your post is actually just a letter "I". In terms of the basketball universe Wade was absolutely seen as a top 3 player in the game at his peak and rightfully so.

Then he's overrated.

ChitownBears22
06-09-2013, 05:08 PM
Then he's overrated.

How so? His playing style has a short shelf-life. At the peak of his game he could be considered top 3. But it just didn't last.

Shlumpledink
06-09-2013, 05:26 PM
I just don't think he was better than Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, all at the same time. Steve Nash even was better than him a few times. He's been better than Kobe at times and better than Durant, but I think we tend to overrate perimeter players, and ignore someone like Dwight Howard, who put up 20/14 with 3 blocked shots a game. The best defensive player getting 20 points a game and 14 rebounds is pretty epic.

What about Tim Duncan? He's easily forgotten because he doesn't post gaudy numbers, but I doubt anyone would really argue in favor of Dwyane Wade over Tim Duncan. Dwyane wade had his peak on Duncan's downturn, but Duncan was, and is, still a better player. Duncan didn't have the gaudy stats that comes with playing with inferior teammates, but he was a better player on the basketball court.

RaiderLakersA's
06-09-2013, 05:29 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that tonight D. Wade will have the perfect game.

Swashcuff
06-09-2013, 05:31 PM
Then he's overrated.

So because you as an individual think Wade wasn't top 5 and most knowledgeable basketball fans thinks he was top 3 that makes him overrated? Excellent logic bro. Ever thought for a second that you may be the one who is under rating him?

Hereis what you should do, do a season by season breakdown of the best players in the league in Wade's best years I'm quite certain you'd be shocked by your findings because you must be misremembering exactly how good Dwyane Wade was.

jerellh528
06-09-2013, 05:34 PM
Yeah, pretty much a one dimensional slasher type. A more efficient Gerald Wallace with a honed in flop arsenal.

dee279
06-09-2013, 05:38 PM
I hate to hear your other basketball opinions if you think wade was the second best player in the nba.

He very easily was.

Shlumpledink
06-09-2013, 06:16 PM
So because you as an individual think Wade wasn't top 5 and most knowledgeable basketball fans thinks he was top 3 that makes him overrated? Excellent logic bro. Ever thought for a second that you may be the one who is under rating him?

Hereis what you should do, do a season by season breakdown of the best players in the league in Wade's best years I'm quite certain you'd be shocked by your findings because you must be misremembering exactly how good Dwyane Wade was.


08-09 season
What most fans consider to be Dwyane Wade's best season :
49%/31%/77% Fg/3p/Ft
30/5/7.5/1/2/3.4 Pts/Reb/Assist/Blk/Stl/TO
1/4 OffR/DefR

Chris Paul
50/36/87 fg/3p/ft %
22/5.5/11/.1/2.8/3 pts/reb/assist/blk/stl/TO
.9/4.7 OffR/DefR

Dwight Howard
57/0/59 fg/3p/ft %
20.6/14/1.4/2.9/1/3 pts/reb/assist/blk/to
4.3/9.6 OffR/DefR

It is worth noting, that although you say he was consensus top 3, that he has only made two all nba first teams, and came in 3rd in MVP voting for the 08-09 season which was his highest ranking. We're all aware that the mvp voting is flawed though, as well as possibly many other awards. I am just looking for evidence on the consensus pick for him as top 3 talent. I haven't seen much of it outside of on internet message boards.

My recollection of the 06-10 period was mostly a discussion between who was better, Kobe or Lebron. So my memory had Kobe and Lebron interchangeable at the top, with Chris Paul being just below them, as he led the hornets to greatness. Then I thought of Steve Nash being just below Chris Paul as far as what players did on the court to help their team.

Having them both playing the same position, and Chris Paul being capable of more, it was hard to justify steve Nash as being better than Chris Paul. That 08-09 season wasn't as good for nash as the year before and the year after. Going 16/11/3 while posting the best shooting numbers of the modern era.

Then you take a look at Dwight Howard, who was the central cog to a Orlando Magic team that almost won the finals against the real second best player in the nba, Kobe Bryant, and Pau gasol, arguably a top ten talent. The Magic could have won that finals series too, Courtney Lee missed a layup at the buzzer to give the Magic a victory, and then another game the Lakers had to come back late in the 4th to barely get a victory. Dwights numbers are up above, but it's worth it to know that this wasn't a peak season for Dwight, he has had better stats in nearly every category in other seasons, so to name him lower than wade over that period is crazy.

This started out with me saying Wade as the second best player in that 06-10 stretch is ridiculous. Now it's being stretched to top 3, which I don't even think he deserves either. Anyone is free to disagree with me, but I don't remember Wade being second best ever, or third best. I remember him having a two year peak where he was really successful and efficient, but it's not enough to anoint him as having top honors over guys who'd been having more success.

envymamba24
06-09-2013, 06:36 PM
he stopped working with his trainer that got him one of the best mid range games in the league, he started working with lebron.

one of the best mid range games in the league??

and yes, hes always been more of a driver. he was never top 5 in my opinion

MrfadeawayJB
06-09-2013, 06:41 PM
Yes. His jumpshot has always been streaky at best

Dnovakovic099
06-09-2013, 06:56 PM
08-09 season
What most fans consider to be Dwyane Wade's best season :
49%/31%/77% Fg/3p/Ft
30/5/7.5/1/2/3.4 Pts/Reb/Assist/Blk/Stl/TO
1/4 OffR/DefR

Chris Paul
50/36/87 fg/3p/ft %
22/5.5/11/.1/2.8/3 pts/reb/assist/blk/stl/TO
.9/4.7 OffR/DefR

Dwight Howard
57/0/59 fg/3p/ft %
20.6/14/1.4/2.9/1/3 pts/reb/assist/blk/to
4.3/9.6 OffR/DefR

It is worth noting, that although you say he was consensus top 3, that he has only made two all nba first teams, and came in 3rd in MVP voting for the 08-09 season which was his highest ranking. We're all aware that the mvp voting is flawed though, as well as possibly many other awards. I am just looking for evidence on the consensus pick for him as top 3 talent. I haven't seen much of it outside of on internet message boards.

My recollection of the 06-10 period was mostly a discussion between who was better, Kobe or Lebron. So my memory had Kobe and Lebron interchangeable at the top, with Chris Paul being just below them, as he led the hornets to greatness. Then I thought of Steve Nash being just below Chris Paul as far as what players did on the court to help their team.

Having them both playing the same position, and Chris Paul being capable of more, it was hard to justify steve Nash as being better than Chris Paul. That 08-09 season wasn't as good for nash as the year before and the year after. Going 16/11/3 while posting the best shooting numbers of the modern era.

Then you take a look at Dwight Howard, who was the central cog to a Orlando Magic team that almost won the finals against the real second best player in the nba, Kobe Bryant, and Pau gasol, arguably a top ten talent. The Magic could have won that finals series too, Courtney Lee missed a layup at the buzzer to give the Magic a victory, and then another game the Lakers had to come back late in the 4th to barely get a victory. Dwights numbers are up above, but it's worth it to know that this wasn't a peak season for Dwight, he has had better stats in nearly every category in other seasons, so to name him lower than wade over that period is crazy.

This started out with me saying Wade as the second best player in that 06-10 stretch is ridiculous. Now it's being stretched to top 3, which I don't even think he deserves either. Anyone is free to disagree with me, but I don't remember Wade being second best ever, or third best. I remember him having a two year peak where he was really successful and efficient, but it's not enough to anoint him as having top honors over guys who'd been having more success.

Yeah, I would have to agree. IMO Chris Paul and Howard where always on another level from Wade. One could def argue that Duncan, http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html, Steve Nash, http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html, and a few more players where better than Wade. The only thing Wade has going for him was that ring in which he was the best player by far, however I, like you, believe the NBA and refs let him flop his way there. To say Wade was def top 2 is absurd.

Redskins10
06-09-2013, 07:00 PM
I hate to hear your other basketball opinions if you think wade was the second best player in the nba.
I was gonna come up with a clever response but it seems as if every one else agrees with my assertion. I'd love to hear your other basketball opinions.

Dnovakovic099
06-09-2013, 07:00 PM
You could make an argument, in my opinion a very weak one, that he was second best. The only argument would be the Finals MVP. The numbers are heavily in CP3 and Dwight's favor. It is a crime how underrated Duncan and Howard are.

D-Leethal
06-09-2013, 07:04 PM
I just don't think he was better than Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, all at the same time. Steve Nash even was better than him a few times. He's been better than Kobe at times and better than Durant, but I think we tend to overrate perimeter players, and ignore someone like Dwight Howard, who put up 20/14 with 3 blocked shots a game. The best defensive player getting 20 points a game and 14 rebounds is pretty epic.

What about Tim Duncan? He's easily forgotten because he doesn't post gaudy numbers, but I doubt anyone would really argue in favor of Dwyane Wade over Tim Duncan. Dwyane wade had his peak on Duncan's downturn, but Duncan was, and is, still a better player. Duncan didn't have the gaudy stats that comes with playing with inferior teammates, but he was a better player on the basketball court.

Players fluctuate from season to season. In 2009 Dwight Howard was the only guy you could argue from that list of yours.

TestedWest
06-09-2013, 07:23 PM
Nope he was probably even to Lebrons current shooting before the big 3 formed. His reduced role is clearly the main reason why his shot has looked below par for a while now. I compare him to Kobe in the sense that it requires him to take a necessary amount of shots to get him going in which he doesn't get that opportunity on the current Heat.

KingstonHawke
06-09-2013, 08:46 PM
I've been talking about the same thing. I actually think he should be coming off the bench the way that Pop has used Ginobili in the past. Without his jumper he needs to dominate the ball to be effective, but so does Lebron.

As far as your actual question. He was never a great jump-shooter, but these last two years it's declined steadily. They really are giving him the Rondo treatment, and it's hard to watch.

I live in South Beach (not Miami, actually SB) and my theory is he doesn't take basketball as serious as he used to. I moved here around the same time that Lebron did and all I ever hear about is those guys partying. Lebron got real sell his soul serious for while after they lost to the Mavs and they partied at Liv... but after they won that ring, it's been a party ever since.

The Heat should've traded Wade for Howard when they had the chance.

Shkelqim
06-09-2013, 09:10 PM
I dont think he cares about stats more than championships