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InsightObjSub
06-07-2013, 04:10 AM
I've found this forum a while back, but been lingering on signing up. What drove me to register is the ridiculous notions some people (not all) have in comparing players (especially which players are better than whom).

Specifically I'm writing this section for those who do not understand the concept of best player vs. first option.

The best player on the team is the player considered to be the best OVERALL player on a given team (duh). While this player is usually also a team's first option (Lebron, Kobe, Dirk etc), there are many times the best player ISN'T the team's first option. For example, most people would argue KG being the Celtic's best player, but PP or Rondo being their first option.

Furthermore, while the first option usually scores the most points, this does NOT mean this is the case every time as other factors are considered such as usage rates, assists, or to dumb it down - who runs the offense.

Ex: the Minnesota Timberwolves. Kevin Love is an interesting case as his game is rather unique. He is the team's best player who has the skill set to lead the team in points and rebounds (challenging league leaders in those categories when healthy). However any basic scout, coach, college player, or non-espn analyst can see the majority of his points are created by other players. Anyone who has watched his game sees the majority of his points come on pick and pops and hustle rebounds. This is not belitting him as a player but showing what he is not.. A viable #1 option.

It is ridiculous to state Kevin Love can NEVER be a winning team's best player. However Kevin Love is not able to generate points in the half court in isolation when needed.

Again for example, in 2011 Dirk displayed his ridicoulous skill set as a #1 option with the ball in his hands as he could now operate in the high post, low post, 3 point line.. by shooting, posting, slashing or showing his trademark fade. Kevin Love at this time needs for others to create shots for him and hustles for his points (which again he is extraordinarily good at).

With this in mind, some notions such as so and so player can never be a team's best player and win are ridicoulous (unless the given player is actually not that skilled). Before the Celtics, people who actually followed the NBA pre-2008 know KG had major criticisms, fair or not (he was not clutch, he never raised his game in the playoffs bc he played with his highest intensity all the time that he had no other higher level etc). However as he had 2-3 other players (who were not better), but could generate as a primary threat, he could lead the defensive effort, while PP/Rondo could lead the offense front.

Lastly that is why players who can be a team's best player and #1 option are considered premiums. What Lebron did last year showed his worth despite his naysayers. That is again why Dirk is also special despite so many belittling his game (his game has always been so severely underrated). Guys like TD, Kobe, Dirk, and Lebron were able to be win championships as best players and first options which is why they are first ballot HoFers. However stop confusing these two concepts when comparing players.

TrueFan420
06-07-2013, 04:20 AM
I'd make the argument that at this stage in Duncan's career he is no longer the first option but still the best player because of hat he can do on both ends of the court.

InsightObjSub
06-07-2013, 04:34 AM
I would agree.. but didnt want to go more off topic than I already felt I was, the focus being on what so many get confused when differentiating these two statuses.

Plus when I mentioned TD, I was saying he has already won as such a player cementing his status, not him now. One could argue the same with Dirk and Kobe.

Anyways this post in not to debate who currently is this type of player, but pointing out the distinction of these 2 statuses.

TrueFan420
06-07-2013, 04:38 AM
I would agree. I was considering writing that in but didnt want to go more off topic than I already felt I was, the focus being on what so many get confused when talking about players.

Plus when I mentioned TD, I was saying he has already won as such a player cementing his status, not him now. One could argue the same with Dirk and Kobe.
Dirk is still a first option and best player on his team but that could change soon depending on how the offseason goes for Dallas.

InsightObjSub
06-07-2013, 04:49 AM
Sigh.. Again if you are asking for MY opinion as one who severely regards Dirk's game, I would agree. But I said one could at lease argue it depending on how they viewed his injury the past two years.

Not to be annoying as I agree with how you see the two mentioned players, but again the purpose of this post was to debate who is and isn't currently this player, but writing out the differences between the best player and #1 option that so many on PSD seem to confuse.

TrueFan420
06-07-2013, 04:55 AM
Sigh.. Again if you are asking for MY opinion as one who severely regards Dirk's game, I would agree. But I said one could at lease argue it depending on how they viewed his injury the past two years.

Not to be annoying as I agree with how you see the two mentioned players, but again the purpose of this post was to debate who is and isn't currently this player, but writing out the differences between the best player and #1 option that so many on PSD seem to confuse.fair enough but normally people like to have illustrated examples. If your just posting how you view the difference then the thread won't last long.

InsightObjSub
06-07-2013, 05:04 AM
Fair point. I wrote this as a rant to some users on PSD and didn't care about a long following, but if people would like.. they can debate who they believe can win a championship as the best player AND #1 option.

For ex: Stephen curry clearly is an effective #1 option, but can he win a championship as the best player or does he need a 'KG' type of player to round out the team.

TrueFan420
06-07-2013, 05:17 AM
Fair point. I wrote this as a rant to some users on PSD and didn't care about a long following, but if people would like.. they can debate who they believe can win a championship as the best player AND #1 option.

For ex: Stephen curry clearly is an effective #1 option, but can he win a championship as the best player or does he need a 'KG' type of player to round out the team.

I love that you brought up curry as I'm a warriors fan. The way the team is constructed he can be the best player and first option and still win. The team is very well balanced. We have a defensive anchor in Bogut and is also a very good passer out of the post. A player that can post up and pick and pop in lee that complements Bogut. Then there's Klay and Barnes who are gonna keep improving along with a strong bench. If the team as a whole can avoid injuries and youngesters continue to improve I think we can be capable of beating any team with curry as the best option and first scoring option.

njnets
06-07-2013, 02:44 PM
reminds me of my nets a little bit. back when carter and kidd were together, VC was the first option but kidd was the best player. did a little bit of everything and was the leader of the team.

IndyRealist
06-07-2013, 05:21 PM
“Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.” John Kenneth Galbraith

FOXHOUND
06-07-2013, 05:34 PM
I agree with this, and I do think the Celtics example is a very good one. Garnett was the best overall player on that Celtic team in 2008 and 2010, but Paul Pierce was the #1 scoring option and closer. Another point that can be argued is, which was more important? I mean Pierce did win Finals MVP, and I do think it was well deserved.

It also depends very much on the supporting cast. Where as LeBron in Cleveland was no doubt the best player and the first option it didn't make him any less qualified to be the best player on a championship team than Dirk, who has also been a first option and the teams best player. By the same token Wade didn't all of a sudden become any less capable of being a #1 option and best player on a championship team the day LeBron signed in Miami. Bosh didn't become any less capable of being a #1 option on a title team even though he has been turned into a stretch 5 with his game being wasted.

It can be extremely difficult to judge a player fairly on what they're capable of based on their team, their role and their circumstance. I think that is why you see so much confusion on the subject.