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View Full Version : Has Bosh Over-Adapted to a Role in Miami?



shep33
06-07-2013, 12:50 AM
I remember when this guy and Dwight went at it, with Bosh putting in some monster games.

Watching him the past few games, it's almost like he's sacrificed his game as a 3rd option so much, that his tendencies have dramatically been altered.

This guy used his quickness on the block to blow by guys. He's in the prime of his career right now, and he still seems athletic, but it's almost as if he's settled into a stretch 4 role.

It's quite amazing... He even looked a lot stronger back in Toronto.

I guess what I'm saying is that has his role in Miami shifted his tendencies on the offensive and defensive end (was a good rebounder in Toronto)?

Still think this guy is a very good player, but it's almost like it's a psychological thing with him now.

Jenceman
06-07-2013, 12:52 AM
Yeah. It's why you see him excel so much when Lebron/ Wade sits.

bucketss
06-07-2013, 12:53 AM
coming from a raptor fan, dude is just weird when i watch him. he isn't the same guy, bosh was never this soft or lazy.

Clippersfan86
06-07-2013, 12:53 AM
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1359/99/1359997259777.jpg

calmunderfireKO
06-07-2013, 12:54 AM
I think the Heat system is designed for LeBron to be ball dominant and drive and dish to shooters. Problem is LeBron (while good at it) is very reluctant to go into the post and score. Especially in crunch time where everything falls apart for him in general.

The Heat don't have anybody to go get some easy buckets down low.

shep33
06-07-2013, 12:58 AM
coming from a raptor fan, dude is just weird when i watch him. he isn't the same guy, bosh was never this soft or lazy.

It's amazing. It's like watching two completely different players. I'm checking out some of his games on the Raps, and man, it's just insane how different he looks.

JEDean89
06-07-2013, 01:07 AM
the heat like the knicks suffer from having 2 max contract PF's. amare suffered from melo, bosh suffers from lebron. Bosh should not be playing stretch 4/5 and needs a pg to be really successful.

Agar81
06-07-2013, 01:11 AM
http://i.imgur.com/yOFfs8I.jpg

TeamSeattle
06-07-2013, 01:13 AM
I guess Hibbert stretched Bosh out too much last series (no homo)

bucketss
06-07-2013, 01:15 AM
the heat like the knicks suffer from having 2 max contract PF's. amare suffered from melo, bosh suffers from lebron. Bosh should not be playing stretch 4/5 and needs a pg to be really successful.

last finals he played like a real center, he was playing great help defense on durant, this year dude became so soft, how many threes does he have to take?

*Superman*
06-07-2013, 01:15 AM
Never shoulda cut that hair mane...

OceanSpray
06-07-2013, 01:21 AM
When he cut that hair, his manhood went away as well.

b@llhog24
06-07-2013, 01:25 AM
The way the Heat use him, Ryan Anderson would be better than him at his role.

marvILLous
06-07-2013, 01:30 AM
I agree.. he's deferring too much to lbj/wade.. On top of that the Heat dont run enough post isos for him

He was a beast back in TO and I think he's still capable.. He's just not showing it.. Clearly

*Superman*
06-07-2013, 01:30 AM
When he cut that hair, his manhood went away as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuRb17nr14

Becks2307
06-07-2013, 01:36 AM
He lost is edge. Basically he adapted to being a 3rd option so much he started playing like one as well. He has lost a ton of confidence and honestly he'll never be the player he was in Toronto again, he's peaked and he is slowly declining.

MDD
06-07-2013, 01:42 AM
It's because he has never been a physical low post player and being on a team with two do all players hurt him while he can do what they do but they do it so much better so they go with the more dominant players , he pick up scraps were evere he can.

So what I'm saying is his skills don't mesh with theirs that's why he put up the numbers he did in Toronto he was the only guy so his stats where inflateted sorta like how Kevin Loves is in Minnie
.

Sinestro
06-07-2013, 01:43 AM
He definitely has. Its quite sad to see as well.

Teeboy1487
06-07-2013, 01:53 AM
Bosh should be at least killing it on the boards as the lone big man in the paint. He is softer than soft these days. Some one should tell him he is not Dirk Nowitski. Bosh is the black version of the current Pau Gasol. Soft, ineffective, and shoot 3s they know they can't make.

nimzboy
06-07-2013, 01:58 AM
Miami should trade him, not because he is bad, but because he is being under-used for someone making almost 20 mil a year. His role, shooting mid range jumpers, and now 3s, can be substituted by a guy like brandon bass(just mid range, no 3s) or a guy like david west. If miami can get a 6'11 center or a 7 footer who can play pick and roll with lebron and play defense(a guy like bogut) for bosh, then they should do it. And use that trade exception for a midrange shooting pf.

TheNumber37
06-07-2013, 02:06 AM
No. Dinosaurs can't adapt to anything.

TheNumber37
06-07-2013, 02:07 AM
Chris Bosh = Rich Man's Charlie Villie/Channing Frye

Toxeryll
06-07-2013, 02:13 AM
hes too soft now and totally fell in love shooting 3pointers

smith&wesson
06-07-2013, 02:14 AM
He use to be a monster on the boards .. The year before he got traded he was averaging like 12 boards a game..

Toxeryll
06-07-2013, 02:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuRb17nr14

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

shep33
06-07-2013, 02:26 AM
He use to be a monster on the boards .. The year before he got traded he was averaging like 12 boards a game..

Pretty amazing. In his last 4 seasons with Toronto he averaged 11 rpg, 9 rpg, 10 rpg and 11 rpg.

He used his outside shot so much more effectively in Toronto too. He didn't take many 3's at all, but because he can hit that 18 footer like nothing, defenders would close out on him, but he'd just jet right by for a dunk or easy shot at the basket.

Seems like he just settles now.

WHODAT8o8
06-07-2013, 02:26 AM
I feel he lives at the three point line. I dont think ive seen him post up once this entire post season.

jam
06-07-2013, 02:55 AM
That's exactly his role. He's done enough to help this team to get to 3 straight finals. He doesn't have the alpha male personality to question his status, so this is pretty much what you'll be seeing from him from here on out; at least on this particular team.

He can either put up big numbers on an average team, or be a super role player on a championship team. He's made his choice, and it's a wise one.


I remember when this guy and Dwight went at it, with Bosh putting in some monster games.

Watching him the past few games, it's almost like he's sacrificed his game as a 3rd option so much, that his tendencies have dramatically been altered.

This guy used his quickness on the block to blow by guys. He's in the prime of his career right now, and he still seems athletic, but it's almost as if he's settled into a stretch 4 role.

It's quite amazing... He even looked a lot stronger back in Toronto.

I guess what I'm saying is that has his role in Miami shifted his tendencies on the offensive and defensive end (was a good rebounder in Toronto)?

Still think this guy is a very good player, but it's almost like it's a psychological thing with him now.

mjt20mik
06-07-2013, 03:07 AM
They need to feed him and the run a modification of a triangle through him. I think it would open doors for Lebron and Wade (as well as the shooters).

THE GIPPER
06-07-2013, 03:11 AM
Its really too bad. He was a freaking BEAST his final year in Toronto. Best PF in the game at the time.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-07-2013, 03:41 AM
There was a time that he was a bad man. Now he just looks like a different player/person. He looks uncomfortable in his own skin. Like if he is a geek trying to act cool. Its awkward. I cant stand his tough guy screams either. It looks too forced

tapajafri
06-07-2013, 03:57 AM
this is an interesting discussion. it's probably true. Bosh certainly isnt the same 24 and 11 guy he was in toronto. He seems more passive and timid too. What happened? Just got too used to the 3rd option role or something?

tapajafri
06-07-2013, 03:58 AM
There was a time that he was a bad man. Now he just looks like a different player/person. He looks uncomfortable in his own skin. Like if he is a geek trying to act cool. Its awkward. I cant stand his tough guy screams either. It looks too forced

Yeah he looks out of place out there. I agree, he used to be a #1 option on most teams and was one of the best players in the league. He really does look different as a person AND as a player like you said. Over-adapted is a good way of putting it, like the OP posted

Kevj77
06-07-2013, 05:40 AM
This guy used his quickness on the block to blow by guys. He's in the prime of his career right now, and he still seems athletic, but it's almost as if he's settled into a stretch 4 role.Kinda like Pau Gasol. Gasol has accepted being force farther out and being more of a stretch 4 when he was obviously a center and had better post moves than Howard.

Lakers won 2 chip with Gasol at center and have struggled the past two year trying to focus on Bynum and Howard the past two years.

Bosh shouldn't be shooting 3 pointers he isn't Dirk.

Chrisclover
06-07-2013, 05:42 AM
James and Wade rob a lot of boards

RLundi
06-07-2013, 07:08 AM
Yup, it's kind of sad.

archdevil84
06-07-2013, 07:08 AM
bosh just should not jack up contested and even uncontested 3 pointers. i know he sometimes make one but cmon dude, you've got miller, allen james jones, chalmers, lewis even lebron who shoots a career high from 3, bosh is supposed to cheese from midrange to draw the opposing center to him and then he can pump fake every once in a while and drive to the rim hard and dunk it of make a lauyup. but when he camps on the 3 point line enemy centers are just hapily gonnna leave him there defending the paint making things harder for james and wade.

archdevil84
06-07-2013, 07:12 AM
i mean just look at this: last regular season bosh took a total of 35 3 pointers. this postseason alone he has already taken 35 threes.

HYFR
06-07-2013, 07:13 AM
He is just a spot up jump shooter now that's it. He isn't giving them anything else. I think he has gotten complacent with that role and just doesn't want to drive to the rim.

JC_
06-07-2013, 07:29 AM
I agree that he needs to drive to the basket more and I understand why he's at the 3pt line but he needs to not take those shots all the time (I was ok with his 3 attempt in the last minute though, he's clutch enough to make those most of the time). Defensively, he's by far the best defender to guard Duncan IMO.

BALLER R
06-07-2013, 07:33 AM
Bosh went to Miami and turned suspect. I'll say it because no one else did that's when everyone started saying bosh is Gay. That's when he started doing things that made you question him. In Toronto he was Never like that Bosh was a beast. That scream he does now he didn't even use to do it like that. He has a lil bit more to him when he was here.
It's like someone scared the hell out of him now. Bosh can grab 9-12 rebounds in a game I don't know why he isn't.
What happened to his post up game.

I remember when he left I was like ok I get why you want to leave and I still liked him as one of my favourite players. Now I can't even stand him.

I don't know but maybe it's the Hair.

Where is this bosh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejyvF_Bt-C4

LTBaByyy
06-07-2013, 07:35 AM
It's sad because he was the best PF after Duncan and Dirk when he was a Raptor

He used to post up all the time and do a spin move or a jab step and blow right by a PF then DUNK on them!

Check out his highlights, he was a Blake Griffin with a jumper

Now people think of him as Ryan Anderson

Sad. But that's what happens when your and all star and face of a franchise then choose to be a third option


Ray Allen fell off fast too.

JC_
06-07-2013, 07:43 AM
It's sad because he was the best PF after Duncan and Dirk when he was a Raptor

He used to post up all the time and do a spin move or a jab step and blow right by a PF then DUNK on them!

Check out his highlights, he was a Blake Griffin with a jumper

Now people think of him as Ryan Anderson

Sad. But that's what happens when your and all star and face of a franchise then choose to be a third option


Ray Allen fell off fast too.

lol isn't Ray like 37?

archdevil84
06-07-2013, 07:50 AM
maybe it has to do something with that he became a father last year or something that he is afraid to scare his kids with monster dunks and screams lol

c.c.
06-07-2013, 08:24 AM
It's sad because he was the best PF after Duncan and Dirk when he was a Raptor

He used to post up all the time and do a spin move or a jab step and blow right by a PF then DUNK on them!

Check out his highlights, he was a Blake Griffin with a jumper

Now people think of him as Ryan Anderson

Sad. But that's what happens when your and all star and face of a franchise then choose to be a third option


Ray Allen fell off fast too.

Yeah all he wanna do is catch and shoot

D-Leethal
06-07-2013, 08:51 AM
Its just as tough for star players to thrive in role player roles as it is for role players to try and step up into star roles. Guys get used to having plays ran for them, to having the ball and being able to decide what to do with it, to running the offense through them. When you take all that away and still ask him to be successful with nothing but leftover scrap possessions and kickouts its tough for them to thrive. I think a team with two stars is better off finding a career third option instead of trying to transform a career first option into that third option.

JAZZNC
06-07-2013, 09:19 AM
Dude has always been a *****. Even when he was putting up numbers he was never a power player. He's doing what he wants to do.

YoungOne
06-07-2013, 09:26 AM
he is hiding in lebrons shadow..

D-Leethal
06-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Basketball is all about rhythm, forcing guys into lesser roles disrupts the rhythm, takes them out of their comfort zone, some players can adapt better than others. I think for the most part, Bosh has adapted pretty well as a 3rd option jump shooter/stretch big.

Becks2307
06-07-2013, 09:35 AM
There are much better and cheaper players who will do exactly what Bosh is doing but better. If this is the role he is going to stay in.

colinskik
06-07-2013, 09:39 AM
Miami should trade him, not because he is bad, but because he is being under-used for someone making almost 20 mil a year. His role, shooting mid range jumpers, and now 3s, can be substituted by a guy like brandon bass(just mid range, no 3s) or a guy like david west. If miami can get a 6'11 center or a 7 footer who can play pick and roll with lebron and play defense(a guy like bogut) for bosh, then they should do it. And use that trade exception for a midrange shooting pf.

This is where I stand on the issue too. His game has evolved into the average PF role player that can be found everywhere throughout the league. ****, I mean Haslem basically does the same thing! I think for the sake of the Heat’s pockets, and for Bosh’s legacy they should split ways – especially if they win it again this year. Bosh is a number 1 type of guy. You pair him with one other big name talent, one that complements his game, and that new team would be very formidable.

Becks2307
06-07-2013, 09:47 AM
This is where I stand on the issue too. His game has evolved into the average PF role player that can be found everywhere throughout the league. ****, I mean Haslem basically does the same thing! I think for the sake of the Heat’s pockets, and for Bosh’s legacy they should split ways – especially if they win it again this year. Bosh is a number 1 type of guy. You pair him with one other big name talent, one that complements his game, and that new team would be very formidable.

But the real thing is, can Bosh recover his old form? or is that dead and buried?

D-Leethal
06-07-2013, 09:54 AM
There are much better and cheaper players who will do exactly what Bosh is doing but better. If this is the role he is going to stay in.

I agree. There are guys who are in the league solely to do what Bosh does. Bosh is making superstar money in a role player role. He's asked to do much less than he is capable of and its tough for guys to figure out how to thrive like that as backwards as that sounds. I think you see with some of these stacked superteams that don't pan out like say the '04 Lakers and '13 Lakers, some teams are better off finding a career 3rd option instead of trying to mold first and second options into that lesser role.

SteBO
06-07-2013, 09:57 AM
I agree. There are guys who are in the league solely to do what Bosh does. Bosh is making superstar money in a role player role. He's asked to do much less than he is capable of and its tough for guys to figure out how to thrive like that as backwards as that sounds. I think you see with some of these stacked superteams that don't pan out like say the '04 Lakers and '13 Lakers, some teams are better off finding a career 3rd option instead of trying to mold first and second options into that lesser role.
Well that's part of the sacrifice. Not that I like it any, but it's an attempt to space the floor more for LeBron and Wade. Problem is, you're not really spacing the floor if the opposition doesn't respect you enough to hit those 3pt shot which was the case last night.

He115ing
06-07-2013, 09:58 AM
Maybe if Wade takes on a less dominant role Bosh can begin to prosper. We all have seen that Wade has been declining recently. To be honest as long as the Heat are winning championships I don't see Bosh going anywhere.

Jarvo
06-07-2013, 10:25 AM
Idk who told this dude to take 3's but lastnight when he was in the post I think he always scored.

nycericanguy
06-07-2013, 10:29 AM
Alot is being made about Bosh's 3 pt attempts, but he's 15 for 35 from 3 this postseason!

I don't think anyone should have a problem with him taking 2-3 per game is he's hitting them at 43%!

There are only so many points and rebounds to go around... LBJ & Wade are both very good rebounders, and with Bosh playing outside as a "stretch", his rebounds are of course going to go down.

LongWayFromHome
06-07-2013, 10:39 AM
http://i.imgur.com/yOFfs8I.jpg

This.

Muttman73
06-07-2013, 10:45 AM
He always looks like he wants to cry ...

ewing
06-07-2013, 11:04 AM
Bosh was always overrated

mvb815
06-07-2013, 12:06 PM
people in miami don't know about bosh's inside game, me personally would rather see him drive it then shoot 3s, i don't care what clip he's shooting at

archdevil84
06-07-2013, 12:15 PM
Alot is being made about Bosh's 3 pt attempts, but he's 15 for 35 from 3 this postseason!

I don't think anyone should have a problem with him taking 2-3 per game is he's hitting them at 43%!

There are only so many points and rebounds to go around... LBJ & Wade are both very good rebounders, and with Bosh playing outside as a "stretch", his rebounds are of course going to go down.

its not only that he is missing half of them. its that theres much better 3 point shooters on that team with that role. Bosh is a very good mid range shooter. When he makes those mid range jumpers thats when he spreads the floor the best for james and wade and thus allowing them to drive and kick to their most lethal 3 point shooters like mike miller and ray allen

d00d
06-07-2013, 12:19 PM
It's amazing. It's like watching two completely different players. I'm checking out some of his games on the Raps, and man, it's just insane how different he looks.

he said it himself, he just wants to chill. he got a max deal and decided he reached the pinnacle

RaiderLakersA's
06-07-2013, 12:20 PM
Life is not a video game. You can't have all of the best talent on one team and expect that everyone will play at beast mode. Not without a great coach/scheme and a great facilitator. We see it happen with the Olympics squad, but somehow people forget the message and lessons learned. There is only one ball.

LeBron is a phenomenally gifted player, but he's not yet at Magic Johnson's level when it comes to taking GREATS and making them work as a cohesive unit. Bosh needs to find his inner Worthy. And as for D. Wade, if he truly is injured, why not try to play like Cooper? Dominate the defense and nail that occasional 3 when needed, if you don't have the vitality to dominate both sides of the court?

I'm sure Bosh will figure it out and help make this series worth watching.

colinskik
06-07-2013, 12:26 PM
But the real thing is, can Bosh recover his old form? or is that dead and buried?

I think he can. Look at his numbers when both Wade and Lebron sat out at the end of the season. If he was told to play with that mindset for an entire year on a squad where he’s the no.1 or no.2 option, then he gets even more comfortable re-adapting to that role.

I would really like to see a team with him and one other star who complement each other’s games.

Chitownhero1992
06-07-2013, 12:59 PM
Bosh has always been the jump shooter, overrated player in my mind ever since his days in Toronto. If he actually used his size and length and went inside they may do damage but it'll never happen.

kenzo400
06-07-2013, 01:11 PM
I still don't understand why he went to Miami. I get it's to win, but that just seems like such an illogical choice. Why would a player want to limit himself like that in his prime? If you can average 25 and 12 and be the main offensive option on a team, why would you refuse that? Winning is important but it's pointless if you cannot do all that you are capable of because of your role.

kenzo400
06-07-2013, 01:12 PM
Bosh has always been the jump shooter, overrated player in my mind ever since his days in Toronto. If he actually used his size and length and went inside they may do damage but it'll never happen.

No he hasn't. If you look at the points spread he would usually get at least half his point from inside the paint off put backs, drives etc..

0nekhmer
06-07-2013, 01:27 PM
As a raptor fan, bosh is nowhere close to his days in t.o. He used to blow past guys with the faceup game. A pump fake, or a jab cross and would look to dunk it with power. He even said it himself a couple of weeks ago "i'm sacrificing my ego for the sake of the team" if you all forgot already.

MDD
06-07-2013, 01:40 PM
Yeah but with wade and lebron being better scores going to the basket makes him a catch and shoot player.

He plays more like a limited sf than a Center or Pf that's why he struggle on the team with lebron and wade .

dtmagnet
06-07-2013, 03:54 PM
In Toronto when he was on the low post he could get a bucket or 2 free throws nearly every time.

CostanzaNumba0
06-07-2013, 04:14 PM
Bosh is now a 7 foot above average jumpshooter, he sucks. He went from batman to catwoman.

justinnum1
06-07-2013, 04:17 PM
Bosh is now a 7 foot above average jumpshooter, he sucks. He went from batman to catwoman.

He was never batman.

CostanzaNumba0
06-07-2013, 04:27 PM
He was never batman.

He wasn't batman in toronto? hmm

24 and 12 on 52% shooting isn't a featured guy? reality check

justinnum1
06-07-2013, 04:34 PM
He wasn't batman in toronto? hmm

24 and 12 on 52% shooting isn't a featured guy? reality check

He is not leading a team to a title. He is a 2nd option.

DoMeFavors
06-07-2013, 05:23 PM
Bosh during an interview in 2010 before free agency he said he wanted to be the man on whatever team he went to and the team to be built around him.

FOXHOUND
06-07-2013, 05:41 PM
Most definitely, but his role has also been adapted each year leading into this current transformation. The first year of the Miami Heat big three was the most balanced, but each year they have altered their style to fit better around LeBron in his ball dominating form, which is his best form. Now while this makes sense, as he is their best player, I feel that balance has shifted too far into that direction this year and the Heat are now paying for it.

They've become more like LeBron's Cleveland team in style each year, and that's not a good thing. Better for LeBron's individual stats, worse for team balance and the productivity of Wade and more so Bosh.

calmunderfireKO
06-07-2013, 05:45 PM
Most definitely, but his role has also been adapted each year leading into this current transformation. The first year of the Miami Heat big three was the most balanced, but each year they have altered their style to fit better around LeBron in his ball dominating form, which is his best form. Now while this makes sense, as he is their best player, I feel that balance has shifted too far into that direction this year and the Heat are now paying for it.


They've become more like LeBron's Cleveland team in style each year, and that's not a good thing. Better for LeBron's individual stats, worse for team balance and the productivity of Wade and more so Bosh.


That's why I created the thread of should LeBron move to power forward because he is at this point in many people's opinions just too ball dominant. Not ball hogging, but ball dominant. It's not like LeBron jacks, he doesn't. He just always has the ball.

I think looking back on it, it was a overreaction thread, but at the same time, the system is too LeBron heavy. Bosh has been effected. He's more than a stretch 5.

FOXHOUND
06-07-2013, 05:55 PM
That's why I created the thread of should LeBron move to power forward because he is at this point in many people's opinions just too ball dominant. Not ball hogging, but ball dominant. It's not like LeBron jacks, he doesn't. He just always has the ball.

I think looking back on it, it was a overreaction thread, but at the same time, the system is too LeBron heavy. Bosh has been effected. He's more than a stretch 5.

So much more, and I think you can make a great case for him being the best scoring big man in the NBA currently. In his last year in Toronto he led the NBA in back to the basket FG%, not sure how many people know that. I only learned that after they signed in Miami, and that was displayed amongst the information that offseason. He can score at an extremely high level as a post player, face up player and as a knock down mid range shooter. He's only being allowed to use that third skill, and least important of the three, on any sort of consistent basis.

I think the long term move to center has badly affected Bosh. He's not a center and the beating inside he has taken all year has no doubt fatigued him. The only teams he played at center last year were Boston and OKC. Boston had KG at center, who isn't a center. OKC had Perkins and Ibaka playing center, and while Perkins is a center he certainly isn't a low post player by any means.

Miami got too cute going after Ray Allen, they should have focused on grabbing a center.

amos1er
06-07-2013, 06:01 PM
Of course Bosh's game had gone down since teaming up with "The Chosen One". Every player that has played along side Lebron has seen a significant reduction in all their stats including their PER and WS/48. Of course Lebron still posts stellar individual stats, but the teams overall stats are down. hmmmm could it be that Lebron's stats come at the expense of his teammates and also the teams overall success? One might look into that one a bit more before so hastily comparing him with with all time greats like Kobe, Magic, Jordan, and Bird. All of them put up great stats while leading their teams to victory, not leading themselves to regular season MVP's at the expense embarrassing playoff upsets.

DiscoHayes
06-07-2013, 06:13 PM
He's ok playing with lebron makes him better at the few skills he was weak in playing with the raptors. It's kinda of funny him seeing at the top of the key at the end of the game but everyone has to admit that was a sweet pass

FOXHOUND
06-07-2013, 06:20 PM
Of course Bosh's game had gone down since teaming up with "The Chosen One". Every player that has played along side Lebron has seen a significant reduction in all their stats including their PER and WS/48. Of course Lebron still posts stellar individual stats, but the teams overall stats are down. hmmmm could it be that Lebron's stats come at the expense of his teammates and also the teams overall success? One might look into that one a bit more before so hastily comparing him with with all time greats like Kobe, Magic, Jordan, and Bird. All of them put up great stats while leading their teams to victory, not leading themselves to regular season MVP's at the expense embarrassing playoff upsets.

I think there's some truth in here. With the risk of starting a Kobe vs LeBron debate in the middle of another thread not focused on either, I'll say one difference I've noticed between them that applies to the thread.

For years all Kobe has told Pau to do was to post up, use his size, strength and skill inside and has literally begged him at times to shoot more as he knows he's capable of more with his talent. Look at this year, where at a point Kobe told Pau to post up on the block, ignore other commands and wait there for the ball so he can use his strengths instead of D' Antoni turning him into crap as a spot up shooter and 3 point shooter.

That's a pretty stark contrast with LeBron, who has now gotten completely comfortable in Miami and many times a game this postseason has waved off Wade into the corner so he can ISO from behind the 3 point line and drive to a clear lane. Or how he waves out Bosh as well to clear out and go stand for a possible spot up jumper. I have never seen LeBron really work to get a player to play to THAT players strengths, it's much more on figuring out how those players can adjust to fit to his strengths better. It's about clearing out and waiting for a drive and kick, or working the PnR or PnP game. If it's a role player who specializes in those things already then yeah, they'll get better playing with LeBron who is great at setting those opportunities up.

That's all I wanna say on that, let's all try to avoid a Kobe/LeBron outbreak lol.

amos1er
06-07-2013, 06:25 PM
How nice of you to come out and play with us Justin :)

I would have never thought he would have the nerve to show his face after last night. lol

D-Leethal
06-07-2013, 06:25 PM
He is not leading a team to a title. He is a 2nd option.

He can be the #1 option without being the best player. Throw Bosh on the Pacers, bring West off the bench and throw a guy like Jarret Jack on their bench thats a team Bosh would be the #1 option and would be a title contender.

I do agree he's best suited as a #2 but you could design a contender with him as your go to scoring threat.

amos1er
06-07-2013, 06:27 PM
I think there's some truth in here. With the risk of starting a Kobe vs LeBron debate in the middle of another thread not focused on either, I'll say one difference I've noticed between them that applies to the thread.

For years all Kobe has told Pau to do was to post up, use his size, strength and skill inside and has literally begged him at times to shoot more as he knows he's capable of more with his talent. Look at this year, where at a point Kobe told Pau to post up on the block, ignore other commands and wait there for the ball so he can use his strengths instead of D' Antoni turning him into crap as a spot up shooter and 3 point shooter.

That's a pretty stark contrast with LeBron, who has now gotten completely comfortable in Miami and many times a game this postseason has waved off Wade into the corner so he can ISO from behind the 3 point line and drive to a clear lane. Or how he waves out Bosh as well to clear out and go stand for a possible spot up jumper. I have never seen LeBron really work to get a player to play to THAT players strengths, it's much more on figuring out how those players can adjust to fit to his strengths better. It's about clearing out and waiting for a drive and kick, or working the PnR or PnP game. If it's a role player who specializes in those things already then yeah, they'll get better playing with LeBron who is great at setting those opportunities up.

That's all I wanna say on that, let's all try to avoid a Kobe/LeBron outbreak lol.

Great assessment. The numbers back this up as well. All of Lebron's running mates over the years have had career lows while playing along side him. While Kobe's running mates have had career years. Heck, even Smush Parker looked like a decent starting pg thanks to Kobe.

dee279
06-07-2013, 06:30 PM
Can i have your attention please? Will the real Chris Bosh please stand up. I repeat. Will the real Chris Bosh pleasee stand up.....

I think we might have a problem here.

amos1er
06-07-2013, 06:31 PM
So much more, and I think you can make a great case for him being the best scoring big man in the NBA currently. In his last year in Toronto he led the NBA in back to the basket FG%, not sure how many people know that. I only learned that after they signed in Miami, and that was displayed amongst the information that offseason. He can score at an extremely high level as a post player, face up player and as a knock down mid range shooter. He's only being allowed to use that third skill, and least important of the three, on any sort of consistent basis.

I think the long term move to center has badly affected Bosh. He's not a center and the beating inside he has taken all year has no doubt fatigued him. The only teams he played at center last year were Boston and OKC. Boston had KG at center, who isn't a center. OKC had Perkins and Ibaka playing center, and while Perkins is a center he certainly isn't a low post player by any means.

Miami got too cute going after Ray Allen, they should have focused on grabbing a center.

But then Lebron's rebounding stats would be affected, and we can't have that now can we. Lebron has to win his way or nothing...while putting up huge stats that don't really help the teams chances to win at all. Having a good rebounding center would surely help the Heats chances of winning, but they conflict with Lebron's stat and MVP quest so they had to find another way. Grabbing the best three point sniper of all time in Ray Allen not only helps the Heats three point shooting, it helps Lebron's assist totals as well. Therefore Ray Allen is approved by "King James" himself to play under the "Lebron System". The "Lebron System" may not be the best formula for winning championships, but it sure makes for some great PER totals and regular season MVP awards.

Pacerlive
06-07-2013, 06:43 PM
He can be the #1 option without being the best player. Throw Bosh on the Pacers, bring West off the bench and throw a guy like Jarret Jack on their bench thats a team Bosh would be the #1 option and would be a title contender.

I do agree he's best suited as a #2 but you could design a contender with him as your go to scoring threat.

Meh.

We have tried that with Jermaine Oneal and it didn't work at least per brawl. Bosh is good but most title contenders have a bruiser down low and he isn't that guy. We certainly couldn't afford that squad you mentioned too so Bosh to me is a rhythm guy. He needs his touches to be affective on the boards but he is just a scoring threat and that is not enough for a big man to be a number one option on a team. He has to help his team in other ways and that is exactly what Bosh doesn't do which is why he is a glaring 17 million weakness on the Heat.