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View Full Version : Are the Stages set for Lebron James to fail



Kyben36
06-06-2013, 04:38 PM
this is a serious question and it arose from the idea of a previous post about whether Wade in 06 or lebron today has more help. and this got me thinking, are the stages set no matter what happens for Lebrons name to be tarnished,

on one hand, If Lebron wins his second tittle, people will still and always look at it as he could have never done it without Wade, without wade he has not got the help he needs to beat a team like (insert the name of the finals team of that year). Lebron never could do it without a #2 who is also top 10 in the league

on the other hand, if lebron cant complete the goal of getting his 2nd tittle, the questions arise of whether or not he can carry a team and be that player some people think he is, an MJ type player who can just carry a team from the clutches of defeat and will them to win. the claim will be without a healthy wade, lebron never would have won his first tittle in the first place. and determent to the idea that he is in fact better than a guy like Kobe, or like MJ.

so the question is, is it a loose loose scenario for Lebrons image whether or not he wins or looses to the spurs in this years finals.

greg_ory_2005
06-06-2013, 04:43 PM
Nobody can win a title on their own. The greatest players of all time still had help. If they happen to lose, it would be because the other guys didn't pull their weight.

ManRam
06-06-2013, 04:45 PM
of course...it's lebron. the stage is always set up for him to fail.

i can't recall an athlete in my lifetime who's image/legacy/perception hinged so much on every single game he plays. he's in such a microscope. there's no middle ground for most: it's either "fail" or "success"

it's not lose-lose per se, but it's definitely win-lose and nothing in between

slaker619
06-06-2013, 05:00 PM
Great debate, but feel can go either way because you look at the greats that couldn't win a ring.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 05:05 PM
Media has and always will be stupid. And they are where 95% of fans get their opinions.

LeBron James will go down as an all-time great no matter what the media wants to use as an excuse to why he was great.

The stage is set for the media to get ratings.

MarkieMark48
06-06-2013, 05:38 PM
If the heat don't win this series Lebron is still an nba champion so he will get criticized, but not to the extent he has before

4milesperday
06-06-2013, 06:00 PM
If the heat don't win this series Lebron is still an nba champion so he will get criticized, but not to the extent he has before

My friend was so sure Heat will lose game 7 that he was already poking fun at James. Said Lebron's phone only ring once...




He's a Knicks fan.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 06:02 PM
My friend was so sure Heat will lose game 7 that he was already poking fun at James. Said Lebron's phone only ring once...



He's a Knicks fan.

Did you ask him if Melo even needs a phone?

Munkeysuit
06-06-2013, 06:05 PM
Fail? I think we all know that no matter what Lebron James does with his career from here on out will NOT EVER be considered failure. Heat can fall to the Spurs and they still win, Lebron still wins and so does his legacy...how many players have reached the Finals 3 years straight? 4 times total? how many players in the history of the NBA can even say they have played in the Finals?
Failure (when it pertains to Lebron) is all in the past...we are now seeing the result of those failures...a more mature and experienced individual as well as more dominant and successful basketball player.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 06:12 PM
Lebron not winning this year would be the biggest disaster in sports history.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 06:14 PM
Lebron not winning this year would be the biggest disaster in sports history.

Really, not Tom Brady going 18-1 and that loss being in the Super Bowl to a 9-7 wildcard team? Hmmmm your sports history must mean from June 2013-July 2013.

smith&wesson
06-06-2013, 06:23 PM
he will go down as one of the best all time. regardless of anyones individual perception of him.

fact of the matter is no one wins alone. you win or lose with a team and every best player on a championship team had a championship roster around him.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 06:24 PM
Really, not Tom Brady going 18-1 and that loss being in the Super Bowl to a 9-7 wildcard team? Hmmmm your sports history must mean from June 2013-July 2013.

The Heat failing this year would just top that by a smidge. The Pats were a little overrated.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 06:27 PM
The Heat failing this year would just top that by a smidge. The Pats were a little overrated.

18-0 and lost to a 9-7 wildcard team. At least the HEAT would lose to a team that has won 50 games in a season for the past 10+ years, who are a veteran team that has been here before, and has one of the best coaches ever.

Yeah BB and Brady losing is way worse. Hell Tiger Woods fall from grace has been worse to watch. How can you be mad at a team for going to three straight finals and losing to another great Vet team.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 06:29 PM
Better yet. Lakers losing to the Celtics in 08 and Celtics losing to the Lakers in 10 seem worse. Nothing worse than losing to a historic rival.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 06:40 PM
18-0 and lost to a 9-7 wildcard team. At least the HEAT would lose to a team that has won 50 games in a season for the past 10+ years, who are a veteran team that has been here before, and has one of the best coaches ever.

Yeah BB and Brady losing is way worse. Hell Tiger Woods fall from grace has been worse to watch. How can you be mad at a team for going to three straight finals and losing to another great Vet team.

The Giants actually proved to everyone they were the better team moving forward. So losing to them wasn't as bad as people make it seem.

That's just it, they have cake walked to the finals three years running. Do you know why? It's because they have a top three team all time, and the weakest competition anyone could ask for. The core of the three Spurs are not as good as they used to be, maybe parker. If they somehow beat the Heat, it will be a glorious day for non bandwagon fans.

smith&wesson
06-06-2013, 06:41 PM
aside from wade & bosh (who are playing like crap mind you) lebron has a washed up allen, washed up battier, washed up lewis, washed up haslem, chalmers, cole & birdman.

I would say pippen was better than wade is now in all 6 years the bulls won.
I would say rodmans rebounding and defence were way more important than what bosh is offering.
I would take kukoc in the years the bulls won over ray allen & battier put together right now.
I would take grant over haslem
I would take longley over birdman
I would take kerr over chalmers
I would take harper over cole

Jordan needed the help too, and had a better supporting cast than lebron ever did.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 06:43 PM
aside from wade & bosh (who are playing like crap mind you) lebron has a washed up allen, washed up battier, washed up lewis, washed up haslem, chalmers, cole & birdman.

I would say pippen was better than wade is now in all 6 years the bulls won.
I would say rodmans rebounding and defence were way more important than what bosh is offering.
I would take kukoc in the years the bulls won over ray allen & battier put together right now.
I would take grant over haslem
I would take longley over birdman
I would take kerr over chalmers
I would take harper over cole

Jordan needed the help too, and had a better supporting cast than lebron ever did.

Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone on the HEAT is in their prime

RiceOnTheRun
06-06-2013, 06:45 PM
I'm sorry, but are you ****ing kidding me? LeBron basically carried the Heat through the entirety of the last series and most of the way to that point. At this point, Wade needs Lebron and not the other way around. I love Wade and completely respect him as a player, but throw in any top 10 SG in his place and Lebron does just as well. If anything, Bron needs Bosh more than he does Wade. His specific skillset of a jump-shooting big is something nobody other than maybe Dirk and a few others have.

So all in all, if they win, it's clear Lebron was the Batman on this team. If they lose, his legacy's gonna take a big hit but there's no shame in losing to one of the greatest organizations the sport has seen.

RiceOnTheRun
06-06-2013, 06:47 PM
The Giants actually proved to everyone they were the better team moving forward. So losing to them wasn't as bad as people make it seem.

That's just it, they have cake walked to the finals three years running. Do you know why? It's because they have a top three team all time, and the weakest competition anyone could ask for. The core of the three Spurs are not as good as they used to be, maybe parker. If they somehow beat the Heat, it will be a glorious day for non bandwagon fans.

Please. All the bandwagon fans are rooting for the Spurs. Last week it was for the Pacers and the week before it was the Bulls.

Top three team all time? I thought Lebron was a choker and Wade was a flopper, but they're top 3 all time? Wow, things change on the bandwagon real quick.

I'm by no means a Heat fan but I do appreciate their game and it'd just be delightful for me to see all the REAL bandwagoners' hopes and dreams get crushed.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 06:54 PM
Please. All the bandwagon fans are rooting for the Spurs. Last week it was for the Pacers and the week before it was the Bulls.

Top three team all time? I thought Lebron was a choker and Wade was a flopper, but they're top 3 all time? Wow, things change on the bandwagon real quick.

I'm by no means a Heat fan but I do appreciate their game and it'd just be delightful for me to see all the REAL bandwagoners' hopes and dreams get crushed.

You obviously don't know what bandwagon means. Lebron and Wade are both floppers yes, but it only adds to how it helps them in games. Lebron is the best player in the world and has the best supporting cast in the nba. How is that not unfair to every other team?

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 06:58 PM
You obviously don't know what bandwagon means. Lebron and Wade are both floppers yes, but it only adds to how it helps them in games. Lebron is the best player in the world and has the best supporting cast in the nba. How is that not unfair to every other team?

I would like to see statistical proof he has the best supporting cast. From what I have seen in the playoffs he is carrying the team with little help from Wade or Bosh.

And what does flopping have to do with anything. Flopping has been in the league forever, and several championship teams in the past have utilized flopping to get an edge. Why is it sooooooo bad now? Oh that is right, because it isn't the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls, Knicks, ETC doing it on the championship stage right now.

Chronz
06-06-2013, 07:00 PM
Always.

Chronz
06-06-2013, 07:03 PM
I would like to see statistical proof he has the best supporting cast. From what I have seen in the playoffs he is carrying the team with little help from Wade or Bosh.
I know his response.

They are on "cruise control".

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:06 PM
I know his response.

They are on "cruise control".

Makes sense.

RiceOnTheRun
06-06-2013, 07:08 PM
You obviously don't know what bandwagon means. Lebron and Wade are both floppers yes, but it only adds to how it helps them in games. Lebron is the best player in the world and has the best supporting cast in the nba. How is that not unfair to every other team?

Bandwagon (v.) ; The act of dogmatically following a particular point of view or repeatedly responding in a particular way because it is fashionable, despite its logical merit.

Gee I wonder how many people actually want the Spurs to win because they like the Spurs. I could've sworn just a month ago people were calling for a Lakers upset. :confused:

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 07:09 PM
I would like to see statistical proof he has the best supporting cast. From what I have seen in the playoffs he is carrying the team with little help from Wade or Bosh.

And what does flopping have to do with anything. Flopping has been in the league forever, and several championship teams in the past have utilized flopping to get an edge. Why is it sooooooo bad now? Oh that is right, because it isn't the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls, Knicks, ETC doing it on the championship stage right now.

Just because the Heat players are in a minor funk doesn't mean it changes who they are. No other championship team flops are much and you guys. You made this league into a joke.

*Superman*
06-06-2013, 07:12 PM
The Mac will conquer all.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:13 PM
Just because the Heat players are in a minor funk doesn't mean it changes who they are. No other championship team flops are much and you guys. You made this league into a joke.

Minor funk? Wade is averaging 13 points in the playoffs, which have been going on for a while now. That is not a minor funk.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 07:13 PM
Bandwagon (v.) ; The act of dogmatically following a particular point of view or repeatedly responding in a particular way because it is fashionable, despite its logical merit.

Gee I wonder how many people actually want the Spurs to win because they like the Spurs. I could've sworn just a month ago people were calling for a Lakers upset. :confused:

;a party, cause, movement, etc., that by its mass appeal or strength readily attracts many followers:

^ Cute post big three Heat fans.(most of PSD).

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 07:15 PM
Minor funk? Wade is averaging 13 points in the playoffs, which have been going on for a while now. That is not a minor funk.
Ok..... Before that he was averaging 21/5/5/2. Wade is the best number two option in the league, While Bosh is the best third option.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:16 PM
;a party, cause, movement, etc., that by its mass appeal or strength readily attracts many followers:

^ Cute post big three Heat fans.(most of PSD).

Does a Lakers fan really want to talk about bandwagon fans?

Kevj77
06-06-2013, 07:16 PM
I always thought the help arguement against a player was stupid. Most of the time you see it used against Kobe on the NBA forum mainly because Kobe fans like to throw out the 5 rings arguement. I've been a NBA fan since the early 80s and I can tell you that Magic, Bird, Isiah Thomas, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe all had a lot of help it is no knock on Lebron none of these other players did it alone.

The closest to doing it alone was Hakeem.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:17 PM
Ok..... Before that he was averaging 21/5/5/2. Wade is the best number two option in the league, While Bosh is the best third option.

Kobe Bryant is the best number two option in the league. Number 2 option to Shaq, number 2 to Gasol/Odom

RiceOnTheRun
06-06-2013, 07:18 PM
;a party, cause, movement, etc., that by its mass appeal or strength readily attracts many followers:

^ Cute post big three Heat fans.(most of PSD).

Not a Heat fan. I follow them because they make big news and I support them because I personally like Lebron and his story. But the only people I ever want to see kick the Heat's *** would be the Knicks and since they're out, I support the Heat.

Most fans I've seen are ones that hate Lebron and blindly support whatever team they're going up against on a given night. If that's not bandwagoning then I don't know what is.

dtmagnet
06-06-2013, 07:20 PM
Last I checked, the Spurs are a very good team. Sometimes you lose to good teams.

RiceOnTheRun
06-06-2013, 07:23 PM
Ok..... Before that he was averaging 21/5/5/2. Wade is the best number two option in the league, While Bosh is the best third option.

Russell Westbrook 23/5/7.5 is the best second option if you consider him that.

Then there's Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, I don't know who you consider the second option in that tandem but both are better than Wade.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:26 PM
If the HEAT sweep the Spurs is LeBron the best player of all time? Nope. It is just one year in a long career.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 07:27 PM
Does a Lakers fan really want to talk about bandwagon fans?Sure?? We might have some stupid bandwagon fans(only because LA/LA county is so big), but we have the most loyal fans as well. I joined this site in our lowest point of the season.


Kobe Bryant is the best number two option in the league. Number 2 option to Shaq, number 2 to Gasol/OdomMaybe to Shaq, but Kobe was super young and Almost every other player in the world would be a number two to Shaq. Gasol/Odom??????? Are you high?


Not a Heat fan. I follow them because they make big news and I support them because I personally like Lebron and his story. But the only people I ever want to see kick the Heat's *** would be the Knicks and since they're out, I support the Heat.

Most fans I've seen are ones that hate Lebron and blindly support whatever team they're going up against on a given night. If that's not bandwagoning then I don't know what is.

You just called yourself a huge bandwagon fan and don't even know it:facepalm:

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 07:28 PM
Russell Westbrook 23/5/7.5 is the best second option if you consider him that.

Then there's Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, I don't know who you consider the second option in that tandem but both are better than Wade.

Almost all Heat fans had Wade ranked above both Westbrook and Parker this year. They even claimed him over Kobe, who was a top 4 player.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:29 PM
Almost all Heat fans had Wade ranked above both Westbrook and Parker this year. They even claimed him over Kobe, who was a top 4 player.

I would like to see proof of this. Without it you are just another liar on PSD.

sunnyice
06-06-2013, 07:32 PM
AFAIK LA has the most bandwagon fans. LA fans boo their own team when they lose. That is just pathetic. And Im not talking about these year. Kobe and his teammates got boo'ed when they lost to OKC last year and The Mavs. Sad..

RiceOnTheRun
06-06-2013, 07:34 PM
You just called yourself a huge bandwagon fan and don't even know it:facepalm:

I support Lebron because he came from a very tough family situation and succeeded regardless. I can relate to that on a personal level and he has an amazing game, it has nothing to do with the success of the Heat, trust me.


Almost all Heat fans had Wade ranked above both Westbrook and Parker this year. They even claimed him over Kobe, who was a top 4 player.

Idgaf what Heat fans say. Or any fans for that matter. During the 2012-13 season, Russell Westbrook was better all around than Wade. That's what matters.

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:34 PM
AFAIK LA has the most bandwagon fans. LA fans boo their own team when they lose. That is just pathetic. And Im not talking about these year. Kobe and his teammates got boo'ed when they lost to OKC last year and The Mavs. Sad..

It is a pathetic group of fans. Funny how many Cowboy fans are Lakers fans and Lakers fans are Cowboy fans. Wonder why?

smith&wesson
06-06-2013, 07:36 PM
Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone on the HEAT is in their prime

ive fallen to your sarcasm before, i know better this time :laugh:

ChitownBears22
06-06-2013, 07:37 PM
ive fallen to your sarcasm before, i know better this time :laugh:

My sarcasm is sadly the opinion of quite a few posters on this site.

smith&wesson
06-06-2013, 07:38 PM
Not cool when posters start attacking a fan base when the discussion has nothing to do with the fan base at all. Stereotyping a group of people doesn’t validate any points at all.

smith&wesson
06-06-2013, 07:40 PM
My sarcasm is sadly the opinion of quite a few posters on this site.

true.

LBJackpot
06-06-2013, 08:00 PM
Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone on the HEAT is in their prime

Just like how Shaq and Ben Wallace were in their primes when they played with LeBron in Clevland lol

lakersfan01
06-06-2013, 08:02 PM
Lebron is carrying the Heat for the second season in a row. Stop it with the Lebron envy.

Delrayhc
06-06-2013, 08:02 PM
I would like to see statistical proof he has the best supporting cast. From what I have seen in the playoffs he is carrying the team with little help from Wade or Bosh.

And what does flopping have to do with anything. Flopping has been in the league forever, and several championship teams in the past have utilized flopping to get an edge. Why is it sooooooo bad now? Oh that is right, because it isn't the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls, Knicks, ETC doing it on the championship stage right now.

Just because the Heat players are in a minor funk doesn't mean it changes who they are. No other championship team flops are much and you guys. You made this league into a joke.

And you make this forum a joke everytime you post.

AsfanSince99
06-06-2013, 08:10 PM
LaBron will still be seen as a champion whether Heat win or lose this series.

I rooted for him to lose in his 1st season w the Heat, but now I'm over that. I hope he wins his 2nd ring. He's by far the best in the game. Heat in 7.