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View Full Version : Who got more help, Wade in 06 or LeBron this season?



sunsfan88
06-05-2013, 06:27 PM
Did Wade get more help from Shaq in the 2006 season than LeBron has gotten from Wade this year (regular season + playoffs)?

At the time, Shaq was an aging, injury prone player just like Wade is today. A lot of people back then talked about how Shaq was free loading off Wade...and a lot of people now say that Wade is free loading off LeBron.

And please, try to leave how the 2006 Finals were officiated out of this. If anything, just leave the 2006 Finals out of the comparison since this year's Finals has yet to begin so we don't know how Wade will play in it to compare to Shaq's performance in the 2006 Finals.

BklynKnicks3
06-05-2013, 06:31 PM
lebron has more help then anyone in nba history stop it idc what wade is avgin he is there and still demands attention. When heat lost to dallas where was wades help with lebron and his 17.8 ppg

bucketss
06-05-2013, 06:49 PM
lebron has more help then anyone in nba history stop it idc what wade is avgin he is there and still demands attention. When heat lost to dallas where was wades help with lebron and his 17.8 ppg

what about backing your claims up instead telling people to stop it?

Chronz
06-05-2013, 06:53 PM
Actually, up until the Finals, Shaq was dominating. He was the MVP of the Detroit series.

icon1914
06-05-2013, 06:59 PM
I'm not sure.... When you look at the fact the big three have not been really playing great, its a tough one... Wade had Shaq, Payton, Walker, Williams, and Posey.... James has Wade, Bosh, Chalmers, Birdman, and.... um.... Ray Allen... Not sure...

joshhorvath
06-05-2013, 07:06 PM
shouldnt the thread be "Who Got More Help: Wade with Shaq in 06 or Lebron with Wade & Bosh & Allen in '12?"

im sorry but having 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA... thats some pretty easy help.. Lebron cant win a championship by himself, he needs help, and always will need help. When people look back at Lebrons career, yes, they'll see him as one of the best players to ever play in the NBA, but, they'll also view him as a player who could not lead a team to a championship on his own, he needed help from other all star players.

d00d
06-05-2013, 07:10 PM
Wade in 06 had more help

The refs gave him a ship. LBJ gave him his 2nd and probably give him a 3rd

sunsfan88
06-05-2013, 07:13 PM
shouldnt the thread be "Who Got More Help: Wade with Shaq in 06 or Lebron with Wade & Bosh & Allen in '12?"

im sorry but having 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA... thats some pretty easy help.. Lebron cant win a championship by himself, he needs help, and always will need help. When people look back at Lebrons career, yes, they'll see him as one of the best players to ever play in the NBA, but, they'll also view him as a player who could not lead a team to a championship on his own, he needed help from other all star players.
Ray Allen and Chris Bosh are not top 20 players in the NBA. I can name 20 guys better than them in this league.

ThunderousDemon
06-05-2013, 07:15 PM
Ray Allen and Chris Bosh are not top 20 players in the NBA. I can name 20 guys better than them in this league.

Okay then.

Shlumpledink
06-05-2013, 07:26 PM
Wade, Shaq, and the Refs are the best trio ever in the history of sports.

PhillyFaninLA
06-05-2013, 07:32 PM
Personally I think if you take Wade and Shaq off of 06 and Lebron and Wade off of this year the 06 roster is better as whole with Mourning, Payton, and Walker, heck even Derek Anderson I think its quite a bit stronger than 2013. 06 was an older team but the team as a whole was very solid, this year Birdman being out for a game lead to them being destroyed where in 06 they could have lost any 1 player aside from Shaq or Wade and been ok.

The Ray Allen factor gets me to hedge a little but I think the 06 team was special and a strong team even without Shaq and Wade (I'm thinking 3 or 4 seed possible) and if you remove Lebron from 2013 you go from a title to 5 or 6 seed.

I will say I think this year is considerably better then last years Heat team.

PhillyFaninLA
06-05-2013, 07:33 PM
Wade, Shaq, and the Refs are the best trio ever in the history of sports.

Yuck, man those grapes are sour, why do you keep eating them

JordansBulls
06-05-2013, 07:37 PM
Heat were 4-5 without Wade in 2006. Heat were 5-1 without Lebron in 2013.

However in the playoffs I think Wade had more help overall, but then again the level of competition he faced was much greater. Had to beat two teams that won 60+ games without HCA. Heat thus far hadn't even played a team that even won 50 games.

ChitownBears22
06-05-2013, 07:40 PM
Regular season- LeBron (Wade was Healthy)
Playoffs- Wade (Because Wade hasn't been healthy, also because having Shaq present in a 7 game series really improves your chances of performing well)

Hawkize31
06-05-2013, 07:42 PM
Heat were 4-5 without Wade in 2006. Heat were 5-1 without Lebron in 2013.

However in the playoffs I think Wade had more help overall, but then again the level of competition he faced was much greater. Had to beat two teams that won 60+ games without HCA. Heat thus far hadn't even played a team that even won 50 games.

Wow, sample sizes of 9 and 6 games. Close the book on this thread.

ChitownBears22
06-05-2013, 07:43 PM
Wow, sample sizes of 9 and 6 games. Close the book on this thread.

That's what people like on this site. Advance stats and using vague data points. It makes making your point so much easier, and also makes it very easy to poke holes into.

MagicBucsSox
06-05-2013, 07:52 PM
shouldnt the thread be "Who Got More Help: Wade with Shaq in 06 or Lebron with Wade & Bosh & Allen in '12?"

im sorry but having 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA... thats some pretty easy help.. Lebron cant win a championship by himself, he needs help, and always will need help. When people look back at Lebrons career, yes, they'll see him as one of the best players to ever play in the NBA, but, they'll also view him as a player who could not lead a team to a championship on his own, he needed help from other all star players.
Who didn't exactly need help?

D-Leethal
06-05-2013, 07:57 PM
Who didn't exactly need help?

Everyone needed help, but LeBron went a step further than 'help' and made sure he had far and away the best supporting cast in the league.

This can't be a serious question though can it? There was a ton of trash on that '06 team including Jason Williams and Gary Payton's corpses, and Antoine Walker.

Delrayhc
06-05-2013, 08:19 PM
shouldnt the thread be "Who Got More Help: Wade with Shaq in 06 or Lebron with Wade & Bosh & Allen in '12?"

im sorry but having 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA... thats some pretty easy help.. Lebron cant win a championship by himself, he needs help, and always will need help. When people look back at Lebrons career, yes, they'll see him as one of the best players to ever play in the NBA, but, they'll also view him as a player who could not lead a team to a championship on his own, he needed help from other all star players.

Why is this such a stupid post? Oh yea..... Because pretty much every superstar that has a ring had help as well.

joshhorvath
06-05-2013, 08:44 PM
Why is this such a stupid post? Oh yea..... Because pretty much every superstar that has a ring had help as well.

but to the extent that James has? 1 player who will be going to the HOF in the very near future in Ray Allen, and 2 other superstars in Wade & Bosh who are in their primes. including other players that could be starters on other teams that signed for the vet minimum.. pretty much, the Heat in 06 had a tougher road to the finals then this years Heat.

2013 Miami Heat: If you sign with us, we'll guarentee you a championship.

bucketss
06-05-2013, 08:48 PM
people still spewing the "he didn't win a championship on is own" crap, jordan really got b-ball fans brain washed, btw believe it or not jordan didn't win it on his own either.

Heediot
06-05-2013, 08:50 PM
LeBron has more talent to work with. If he had the same level of talent with different skill sets, the heat team would be a truly dominant team.

bucketss
06-05-2013, 08:50 PM
but to the extent that James has? 1 player who will be going to the HOF in the very near future in Ray Allen, and 2 other superstars in Wade & Bosh who are in their primes. including other players that could be starters on other teams that signed for the vet minimum.. pretty much, the Heat in 06 had a tougher road to the finals then this years Heat.

2013 Miami Heat: If you sign with us, we'll guarentee you a championship.

no point in mentioning hall of fame with allen, its not like lebron played with allen his whole career, today allen is a shell of himself. wade is also not in his prime dude is 31 and declining fast.

Riodagoat
06-05-2013, 08:54 PM
For all the 10 year old lol-lebron-cant-win-by-himself, please give me one superstar who won it by himself? Or are you idiots just going to keep resorting to your vague generalities?

bucketss
06-05-2013, 08:56 PM
but to the extent that James has? 1 player who will be going to the HOF in the very near future in Ray Allen, and 2 other superstars in Wade & Bosh who are in their primes. including other players that could be starters on other teams that signed for the vet minimum.. pretty much, the Heat in 06 had a tougher road to the finals then this years Heat.

2013 Miami Heat: If you sign with us, we'll guarentee you a championship.

also to add if you're going to add allen and use the HOF card even though hes over the hill, why not mention peyton,mourning,shaq thats 3 hall of fame players.

bucketss
06-05-2013, 08:58 PM
For all the 10 year old lol-lebron-cant-win-by-himself, please give me one superstar who won it by himself? Or are you idiots just going to keep resorting to your vague generalities?

these guys are brainwashed bro, they think jordan is a basketball god and he won everything with a bunch scrubs, so they expect every superstar to win with scrubs.

ztilzer31
06-05-2013, 09:02 PM
Thread is designed to bash the Heat. Needs to be closed. This is the type of garbage that runs this website down.

gatkins11
06-05-2013, 09:20 PM
Wade in 06 had more help

The refs gave him a ship. LBJ gave him his 2nd and probably give him a 3rd

Exactly.

BklynKnicks3
06-05-2013, 09:44 PM
gave him ? wade had 43 in a huge game vs indiana and like 29 or 30 5 other times last year. Lebron fan boys are nuts the guy took a shortcut to win a chip and u guys just fish for credit
Wade in 06 had more help

The refs gave him a ship. LBJ gave him his 2nd and probably give him a 3rd

bucketss
06-05-2013, 09:46 PM
gave him ? wade had 43 in a huge game vs indiana and like 29 or 30 5 other times last year. Lebron fan boys are nuts the guy took a shortcut to win a chip and u guys just fish for credit

too bad this thread is about this season not last year.

koreancabbage
06-05-2013, 09:53 PM
but to the extent that James has? 1 player who will be going to the HOF in the very near future in Ray Allen, and 2 other superstars in Wade & Bosh who are in their primes. including other players that could be starters on other teams that signed for the vet minimum.. pretty much, the Heat in 06 had a tougher road to the finals then this years Heat.

2013 Miami Heat: If you sign with us, we'll guarentee you a championship.

everyone had help.

Jordan had pippen- both are top 50 players of all time

Kobe had Shaq - both are top 50 players of all time

Lebron has Wade and Bosh - Wade maybe top 100 but Bosh outta of the top 100.

People are definitely overrating Wade and Bosh to put Lebron down.

Just b/c Lebron has Wade and Bosh and Allen doesn't mean ****

lets put everything into context here. Wade Bosh and Allen aren't playing like they are at their peaks of their career. The way they are playing: Lebron has been the best player in every series followed by the other players on the other team as the best players in the series followed by Wade, Bosh and Allen.

what help has Lebron gotten from the rest of his teams really?

you keep projecting Wade's past career numbers and experience but its definitely not helping Miami at the moment. Same with Bosh. It has been Lebron every single series.

The more you say you don't care for what Lebron has done b/c of this so-called best supporting cast of all time, the more you are just hating him b/c he's not playing on your team.

bucketss
06-05-2013, 09:57 PM
everyone had help.

Jordan had pippen- both are top 50 players of all time

Kobe had Shaq - both are top 50 players of all time

Lebron has Wade and Bosh - Wade maybe top 100 but Bosh outta of the top 100.

People are definitely overrating Wade and Bosh to put Lebron down.

Just b/c Lebron has Wade and Bosh and Allen doesn't mean ****

lets put everything into context here. Wade Bosh and Allen aren't playing like they are at their peaks of their career. The way they are playing: Lebron has been the best player in every series followed by the other players on the other team as the best players in the series followed by Wade, Bosh and Allen.

what help has Lebron gotten from the rest of his teams really?

you keep projecting Wade's past career numbers and experience but its definitely not helping Miami at the moment. Same with Bosh. It has been Lebron every single series.

The more you say you don't care for what Lebron has done b/c of this so-called best supporting cast of all time, the more you are just hating him b/c he's not playing on your team.

lol exactly, i wonder if what ever allen and wade did earlier in their careers can somehow help miami today?? LOL both players are past their primes.

koreancabbage
06-05-2013, 10:00 PM
but to the extent that James has? 1 player who will be going to the HOF in the very near future in Ray Allen, and 2 other superstars in Wade & Bosh who are in their primes. including other players that could be starters on other teams that signed for the vet minimum.. pretty much, the Heat in 06 had a tougher road to the finals then this years Heat.

2013 Miami Heat: If you sign with us, we'll guarentee you a championship.

first, being a future HOF and is playing like **** is not really helping James. Kidd is going to the hall of fame but noone says Carmelo had a ton of help b/c he has a future HOF in Kidd playing with him.

2 other superstars who are playing like ****- Wade is past his prime, Bosh got manhandled by Indiana. Where is the help? It has seriously been Lebron all playoffs long.

what other players that could be starters on other teams???? Norris Cole? Battier? everyone on this team is a bench player for other good teams as well. lets not get ahead of ourselves. Battier wouldn't even be starting on this team if Miami had a decent center. Allen wasn't even a starter in Boston at the end.

Heat in 06 - have you watch Wade ?. non stop whistle after whistle. that was pretty easy for Wade in his prime when you have the refs on your side for the entire series.

where is the context. Noone has been playing well except Lebron. what help is there?

Heediot
06-05-2013, 10:19 PM
This is purely subjective on my part, but LeBron signed as a big 3 to cop out. He needed others to lean on to get over the mental hurdle (championship) that held him back in the playoffs. Once he got over that hurdle, now he plays more freely and less self-consciously (which takes him to a whole new level).

seikou8
06-05-2013, 10:27 PM
This is purely subjective on my part, but LeBron signed as a big 3 to cop out. He needed others to lean on to get over the mental hurdle (championship) that held him back in the playoffs. Once he got over that hurdle, now he plays more freely and less self-consciously (which takes him to a whole new level).

what mental hurdle he has always showed up in the playoffs sure he has some bad series but i agree with everything else

rex.reyesiii
06-05-2013, 10:34 PM
Is the question about Quantity or Quality?

If quantity, Wade 06, if Quality, Lebron today.

(unhealthy)Wade+Bosh > Shaq

that's if they are the help the OP had in mind.
I forgot the first message and just answered the thread title :D

Heediot
06-05-2013, 10:39 PM
what mental hurdle he has always showed up in the playoffs sure he has some bad series but i agree with everything else

The Pressure of winning a championship makes you play more timid, the more pressure the situation (especially deeper in the playoffs) the less naturally you'll play. Your thinking more than you should and not trusting the process.

He knew he had a guy like Wade who didn't have the same mental issues to help him overcome.

SportsFanatic10
06-05-2013, 10:53 PM
everyone had help.

Jordan had pippen- both are top 50 players of all time

Kobe had Shaq - both are top 50 players of all time

Lebron has Wade and Bosh - Wade maybe top 100 but Bosh outta of the top 100.

People are definitely overrating Wade and Bosh to put Lebron down.

Just b/c Lebron has Wade and Bosh and Allen doesn't mean ****

lets put everything into context here. Wade Bosh and Allen aren't playing like they are at their peaks of their career. The way they are playing: Lebron has been the best player in every series followed by the other players on the other team as the best players in the series followed by Wade, Bosh and Allen.

what help has Lebron gotten from the rest of his teams really?

you keep projecting Wade's past career numbers and experience but its definitely not helping Miami at the moment. Same with Bosh. It has been Lebron every single series.

The more you say you don't care for what Lebron has done b/c of this so-called best supporting cast of all time, the more you are just hating him b/c he's not playing on your team.

you can't be serious...

SportsFanatic10
06-05-2013, 10:54 PM
it's hard to say, definitely lebron on paper but that has been deceiving so far these playoffs.

naps
06-05-2013, 11:37 PM
This year's team is more talented than 2006; However, LeBron's supporting cast hasn't played what was expected from them so far in the post-season. 2006 played great overall up until finals and then Wade happened to take over in the finals while Shaq was not the Shaq of ECF (Detroit) anymore.

Hawkeye15
06-05-2013, 11:49 PM
paper help, or applicable, real help?

amos1er
06-06-2013, 02:00 AM
shouldnt the thread be "Who Got More Help: Wade with Shaq in 06 or Lebron with Wade & Bosh & Allen in '12?"

im sorry but having 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA... thats some pretty easy help.. Lebron cant win a championship by himself, he needs help, and always will need help. When people look back at Lebrons career, yes, they'll see him as one of the best players to ever play in the NBA, but, they'll also view him as a player who could not lead a team to a championship on his own, he needed help from other all star players.

This.

amos1er
06-06-2013, 02:10 AM
Are we talking about help from the refs? In that case i would say Wade in 2006. Bennett Salvatore was the real finals MVP that year. Wade's 2006 finals MVP is one of the most controversial in NBA history. 96 free throws in 6 games, an NBA record. Wade averaged 19 attempts in the final four games of the series (all won by Miami). All those games were decided by 3 points or less.

http://www.ericfolkerth.com/wheneftalks/files/archive-19.html

http://www.82games.com/game5refs.htm

http://www.82games.com/fouldraw.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTKxxsDuDas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6rl4-7YtXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJYlMdFGsw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aySGUzzxjGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFA5vSjvzGk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC9H66odmrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAZeuO2qEqE

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...rigged/page/12

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9180912AAkwnDO

WickedBadMan
06-06-2013, 03:22 AM
Wade had Shaq + Stern's referees, that series is the second shadiest in league history.

beasted86
06-06-2013, 03:29 AM
Actually, up until the Finals, Shaq was dominating. He was the MVP of the Detroit series.

You might want to go look that up. I'm pretty sure Wade was better than Shaq there too. Both efficiency and scoring.

amos1er
06-06-2013, 04:26 AM
Wade was Treated Differently (And it Made a Difference)
You can't come to any other conclusion, if you look at the facts. I've supplied some video evidence to that end. But some folks still insist on claiming that "there were probably just as many bad calls against the Heat."

That's possible. But I don't care to look it up, because I don't have to. I can just look at the stats to see how lopsided it was, and see that the video evidence supports the stats, which supports my conclusion: Wade was treated differently in this series. It may tick you off to hear this, but it's clearly the factual truth.

The best analysis of these facts is this from another blogger, named Will Davis, who has done some analysis of the playoffs, and free throw attempts.

First, Davis, like me, gives a disclaimer:

"I'm trying not to give-in to the conspiracy theory, and I won't. It wasn't rigged. Dallas would have won last night if they hadn't shot under 40% from the field. But I'm absolutely certain Miami would not have been close if they didn't get so much help."

Then, he delves right in to the facts:

"I've tracked down how many times Dwyane Wade went to the free throw line (attempts) and compared them to his season average and his average throughout the playoffs. I didn't include total team personal fouls because Miami didn't have much of a team. They had one guy that they relied on for everything, and that was Wade. Plus the whole Hack-a-Shaq strategy screws up overall personal foul numbers.

I compared Wade's numbers to Dirk's numbers. Dirk had a terrible series scoring-wise, but I wanted to show All-Star vs All-Star averages. It's not that Wade got more attempts than Dirk, but the overall picture the simple comparison helps create. All numbers are rounded up.

Overall Average FTA (free throw attempts):
Dirk fta average for the season: 8
Wade fta average for the season: 11
Dirk fta average for the playoffs excluding the Finals: 10
Wade fta average for the playoffs excluding the Finals: 9
Dirk fta average for the Finals: 9
Wade fta average for the Finales: 16 (an increase of 145%)

Total FTA for Playoffs (number of games in the series):
Dirk fta vs Memphis: 38 (4) San Antonio: 80 (7) Phoenix: 56 (6) Miami: 55 (6)
Wade fta vs Chicago: 48 (6) New Jersey: 53 (5) Detroit: 52 (6) Dallas: 97 (6) (+180%)

FTA per Finals Game:
Dirk: 6, 11, 12, 13, 5, and 8.
Wade: 10, 14, 18, 9, 25, and 21. (game 6 was a 200% increase in attempts from the season average, game 5 was +225%)

I think another big stat for key games 5 and 6 is where overall points were coming from. For game 6 44% of Wade's points came from free throws; game 5 it was 49%. That's almost 50% of your points for two games coming from officials (Wade also had 48% of points coming from the line in game 2, which Miami lost). Of course he had to make them, which he did and stands as a testament to his abilities... as a free throw shooter. Michael Jordan didn't need 50% of his points to come from the line, neither did Magic nor Bird.

Nor was wondering what the differece looked like between the previous series up to game 2, then from game 3 to game 6. Wade averaged 9.5 fta from the Eastern Conference Finals to game 2 of the Finals. Wade then averaged 18.25 fta for games 3 thru 6, an increase of 192%.

Wade took 28 shots from the floor in game 5, and took 25 free throw attempts. In game 6 Wade took 18 shot attempts from the floor, and 21 from the line. Game 5's fta for Wade matched the number of fta for the entire Dallas team.
--------------------------
Bob and Dan mentioned my blog around lunchtime yesterday. They don't really agree with me, because they're still pretty happy with how the season turned out. And I am too. Really. I swear. And they even said that maybe next week, they'd be willing to look at these issues more.

But then, Bob mentioned one more stat that caught my eye, along the lines of what Davis says here:

Wade had TWENTY MORE TOTAL FTAs in this series than Michael Jordan ever had in any championship series he played in.

Still think the video evidence is bogus?

It only points to the deeper reality supported by the stats:

Wade was treated differently.
And that made a huge difference in the series.

http://www.ericfolkerth.com/wheneftalks/files/archive-19.html

amos1er
06-06-2013, 04:31 AM
Martini Republic
NBA reaches WWF levels of un-credibilty
June 20th, 2006
After deciding game 5 of the NBA finals with a disputed call at the end of the game, the referees decided to end any questions regarding the credibility of the NBA by calling a foul when Dwayne Wade(sic) appeared to throw an arm into Dirk Nowitski.

Of course, they called a foul on Nowitski. And the foul was called with less than a minute to play, and the Heat leading by one point.

To be honest, I didn’t watch most of the game. I stopped watching after the second phantom foul in Wade’s favor (where Marquis Daniels didn’t touch him on a shot). It was just a bit much after the first phantom foul (where Wade flopped untouched after making a jumper) and the play where Devin Harris was whistled after Wade dropped a shoulder into him on a drive. Even Hubie Brown was aghast.

NBADraft.net
D-Wade: The Transcendent Super-human
...it's almost tragic that the shoddy officiating will overshadow Wade's truly amazing Finals performance. I want to extend my deepest apologies to Mavericks fans. No fan-base deserves to go though what they did these past four games. I've been a proponent of the "refs don't beat you, quit your whining" perspective, but this was like enduring the Don Denkinger Game from the 1985 World Series, only four times in a row. Unless you're a Miami Heat fan or one of Dwyane Wade's relatives, this is a bad day to be an NBA fan.

Joey Love's Blues & Beyond
What a series.... NOT !
There's probably more footage in the series of bad calls then you could probably gather in the entire season. Come on... Wade himself gets to the line 25 times... more than the entire Mavs team and you don't think the calls were one sided ? I'm trying not to breathe as I write this because I'm afraid I might be called for a foul on Wade ! Was that really a foul when Wade split Dirk and Devin Harris near the end of Game 5, no... Harris has been splitting defenders all season long getting knocked around in the process with no calls and Wade slips through with minimal contact if any and gets a call. This is the frickin' NBA not 4th grade pee-wee basketball !!! Dirk gets pounded all the time... Stackhouse gets a bloody nose... no call, Mavs players flying to the floor... no calls ????

SportsBiz
Cuban Slapped with $250,000 for Truth Talking
The phantom time out and phantom foul on Dwayne(sic) Wade at the end of the last game should have enraged anyone who wasn't a Heat fan. The still inexplicable suspension of Jerry Stackhouse only set Cuban up for the tirade he had in Miami at the end of game 5. It should make for great theatre for the last two games, if there are two and for that i suppose we should thank Stern. Perhaps he should thank Cuban instead of fining him for having an owner who cares enough about the performance of his team to actually argue a call.

The Scores Report
Refs win first title
Miami 95, Dallas 92 (Heat win series, 4-2)
I’ve played basketball for more than 20 years, and one thing is certain: there is nothing more frustrating (from an opponent’s perspective) than a ref giving calls to a good player who repeatedly throws himself into a defensive player. It’s almost like the officials have an incomplete checklist. Was there contact? Check. Is the offensive player a superstar? Check. Let’s send him to the line! Only the refs are forgetting the most important question: does the offensive player create the contact? The officials gave Game 5 to the Heat when, at the end of the game, they rewarded Dwayne(sic) Wade with two free throws on a phantom foul call on Dirk Nowitzki. Fast forward to the end of Game 6, 0:26 to play, Miami leading 91-90, Wade drives the ball, throws his arm out into a retreating Nowitzki, and Wade gets the call. Sure, the Mavs had a chance to tie at the buzzer, but that foul call put Dallas in a bad, bad position.


Selling Waves
More Hate
On the plus side (upside, perhaps, in honor of everybody’s favorite spineless color man?), at least the NBA’s officials for Game 6 maintained consistency in calling fouls against the Mavericks for swiping at the ball in Dwyane Wade’s hands and completely missing everything, for standing there when Wade threw his body into someone and flipped the ball over his head, and for getting in the way of Wade’s forearm. On the down side…well, isn’t the downside pretty obvious? (And that doesn’t even get into the fact that both games 5 and 6 essentially ended on phantom foul calls; whatever happened to letting the players decide the game?)

Seize the Means
The Basketball Blogs: Part II
I'll never watch the NBA again.

I'm a fan of the game--basketball, hoops, the roundball as they say--though I'm not necessarily a fan of the Mavericks or Heat. In truth friends, I'm a Celtics fan--the Celtics who suck a big time mightily, who have driven to near suicidal--so I could give a rat's *** who wins this year's finals. For the love of Pete, just let the games be good. And let Shaq's free-throws resemble tires heaved from a truck.

Yet after watching the refs hand--HAND, I say--Game 5 to the Heat in OT, on a phantom foul that sent D-Wade (who is truly, spectacularly gifted and needs no help) to the line with less than 2 seconds left, where--swish, swish--he calmly stole the game, well...let's just say I'm f*$*& disgusted and driven to drink.

Tomorrow, not a single paper (except maybe the ones in Dallas) will run in its sports pages the headline: The Mavs Were Jobbed! Yet the Mavs were jobbed. Big time. Capital J to the O to the double B, ED. Cheated. Screwed over by the zebras, and on national TV nonetheless. I guess Jesus was out skateboarding.


Unique LIke Everybody
Can a guy get some decent officiating around here?
For everything I said about FIFA officiating, NBA officiating is much, much worse. It got bad enough that I didn't even watch the second half of last night's game.

That upsets me more than it probably should, but sports fans are by nature irrational. See, I loved these playoffs. They made me giddy. I stayed up to watch every Suns game, even when they didn't end until 2am. The Mavericks and Spurs were awesome. The Suns and Mavericks was a non-stop joyfest. Wade, LeBron, and Carmelo were all in the playoffs together for the first time. Elton Brand finally got to play on the big stage. It was amazing.

The NBA Finals destroyed all that.

Look, I love Dwyane Wade. He is my favorite player to enter the league since Allen Iverson. But the Mavericks were utterly and totally jobbed by officials protecting Wade in this series. It was a disgraceful performance by the referees.

In game six, Wade personally shot as many free throws as the Mavs. He set a new Finals record for free throw attempts, which would be one thing if it was just a rough game where everyone was fouling and people went to the line a lot. But in fact, only one team went to the line a lot. Anyone watching that game cannot honestly say that only one team was aggressive, only one team was going to the basket, only one team was playing defense with its feet. After a full season of "the new Mavs," not one announcer claimed they had reverted. So how to explain the disparity?

http://www.ericfolkerth.com/wheneftalks/files/archive-19.html

pacman16
06-06-2013, 05:03 AM
give me a championship team with one star on it...... bulls? lakers? spurs? pervious heat? boston? etc etc
basketball is too much of a team oriented sport to be won by just 1 player alone.

and saying bosh and wade right now are top 20 players in the league now is a bit stiffy....

koreancabbage
06-06-2013, 06:56 AM
you can't be serious...

what? depending on what people think of him. i haven't given much thought of where Wade will land in all of NBA history as a player.

but he's definitely not top 50 of all time (yet - he still has a few productive years ahead of him but will it amount to more championships and siginificant career numbers?)

BklynKnicks3
06-06-2013, 10:02 AM
You lebron fans have some nerve even speakin about help. How quick u forgot if lebron does his job vs the mavs he already has 2 rings. Wade avg 26.5 lebron 17.8 smh. Wheres wades help?

Slade123
06-06-2013, 11:09 AM
shouldnt the thread be "Who Got More Help: Wade with Shaq in 06 or Lebron with Wade & Bosh & Allen in '12?"

im sorry but having 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA... thats some pretty easy help.. Lebron cant win a championship by himself, he needs help, and always will need help. When people look back at Lebrons career, yes, they'll see him as one of the best players to ever play in the NBA, but, they'll also view him as a player who could not lead a team to a championship on his own, he needed help from other all star players.

Oh you mean like when MJ needed help from Pippen and Rodman? MJ never won a chip without them.

BklynKnicks3
06-06-2013, 11:19 AM
mj won 3 without rodman he didnt win without pippen obv u need some kind of help
Oh you mean like when MJ needed help from Pippen and Rodman? MJ never won a chip without them.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 12:02 PM
lebron has more help then anyone in nba history stop it idc what wade is avgin he is there and still demands attention. When heat lost to dallas where was wades help with lebron and his 17.8 ppg

+1

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 12:07 PM
Wade, Shaq, and the Refs are the best trio ever in the history of sports.
^ and the 2010-2013 Heat.

what? depending on what people think of him. i haven't given much thought of where Wade will land in all of NBA history as a player.

but he's definitely not top 50 of all time (yet - he still has a few productive years ahead of him but will it amount to more championships and siginificant career numbers?)

Wade not a top 50 player :facepalm:

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 12:08 PM
You lebron fans have some nerve even speakin about help. How quick u forgot if lebron does his job vs the mavs he already has 2 rings. Wade avg 26.5 lebron 17.8 smh. Wheres wades help?

Well according to Buckets, Lebron tanked the finals and didn't want to try anymore because Wade was going to win finals mvp.

NYCkid12
06-06-2013, 12:11 PM
mj won 3 without rodman he didnt win without pippen obv u need some kind of help

Pippen was a top 50 player of all time......Kobe had one of the most dominant centers in the history of the game....

Players get killed all the time for not caring about winning and then a player makes a move for one reason and one reason only, to win multiple titles and he gets killed for it. He took less money than he could of to team up with two other all stars to win. Why is that a bad thing??

LeBron is one of the best player's of all time, I for one am going to appreciate this once in a generation type player.

NYCkid12
06-06-2013, 12:14 PM
^ and the 2010-2013 Heat.


Wade not a top 50 player :facepalm:

Of all time?? He's not

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 01:22 PM
You lebron fans have some nerve even speakin about help. How quick u forgot if lebron does his job vs the mavs he already has 2 rings. Wade avg 26.5 lebron 17.8 smh. Wheres wades help?

WOW!!! Great post here :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think every heat fan has forgotten that series (actually entire season) like it never existed. Also he would have had 2 rings on top of his 2nd best winning record in NBA history. People who says Lebron doesn't have much help need to get a reality check on his teammates.

NYCkid12
06-06-2013, 01:25 PM
WOW!!! Great post here :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think every heat fan has forgotten that series (actually entire season) like it never existed. Also he would have had 2 rings on top of his 2nd best winning record in NBA history. People who says Lebron doesn't have much help need to get a reality check on his teammates.

He absolutely does have help..

That being said, have Wade and Bosh been playing well in this playoffs? Bc if you think they're playing like top 20 players, you need a reality check.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 01:29 PM
Of all time?? He's not

FACEPALMMMMMMMMMMMMM. name 50 better players. What a stupid statement.

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 01:43 PM
He absolutely does have help..

That being said, have Wade and Bosh been playing well in this playoffs? Bc if you think they're playing like top 20 players, you need a reality check.

When I look at the question and compare Wades 06 team to this current roster I'm looking at the entire year (as the OP mentioned in his original post)...

Wade is not a top 20 player more like a top 5 and Bosh is in the top 20 (They are what they are when talking about help not just what have you done for me lately... Overall for the year that is what they are... If Lebron has an ankle injury and it effects his game in the playoffs he's still the best player in the world he's just playing injured). This is a team that has the 2nd best winning streak in NBA history... Not only does Lebron have help he has a historical amount of talent on this squad with 3 players who are top 20 in the league (Lebron and Wade top 2 At the time of joining forces) and they sign less than max to get even more guys.

Lebron has lots of help he signed a contract with his 2 buddies that would gaurantee him help.

Ebbs
06-06-2013, 01:50 PM
06 Wade with ease. That was a complete team

NYCkid12
06-06-2013, 01:50 PM
FACEPALMMMMMMMMMMMMM. name 50 better players. What a stupid statement.

Jordan
LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Robinson
Chamberlin
Magic
Malone
Abdul-Jabar
Oscar Robertsonson
Bird
Dr. J
Bill Russell
Walt Frazier
Moses Malone
Earl Monroe
Iisah Thomas
John Stockton
Jerry West
Charles Barkley
Elgin Baylor
Pete Marovich
Rick Barry
Dirk Niowitzki

Theres about 25 right off the top of my head and if I actually sat down to think about it I'm sure I am missing people

Just curious where does he rank on your list of top 50 of all time??

bucketss
06-06-2013, 02:02 PM
WOW!!! Great post here :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think every heat fan has forgotten that series (actually entire season) like it never existed. Also he would have had 2 rings on top of his 2nd best winning record in NBA history. People who says Lebron doesn't have much help need to get a reality check on his teammates.

lebron has help, its just exaggerated by kobephiles,jordan throne polishers and everyone else who is paranoid about lebrons greatness.

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 02:07 PM
lebron has help, its just exaggerated by kobephiles,jordan throne polishers and everyone else who is paranoid about lebrons greatness.

Are you talking about the Lebron who was outscored by his teammate Wade in his first finals with the heat? Yeah I'm exagerating and your not :facepalm: (pretty sure a fair amount of people thought Wade would get finals MVP if they won that series... lol)

Lebron is a great player no doubt I just think you are hiding the fact that he has the abundance of help that he does Wade was the 2nd best player when the formed and Bosh and Wade are still top 20... They all signed lower contracts to get even more help.

So just to make this clear to you Lebron is the best player in the league but he also has the most help talent wise by far... Possibly historically if you look at his 2nd best winning streak in NBA history for his squad.

Best player most help it's that simple!

Also you do not sound like a polishers for Lebrons ***, shaft and balls or a Lebronite... Not with amazing posts like that :rolleyes:

FYL_McVeezy
06-06-2013, 02:18 PM
shouldnt the thread be "Who Got More Help: Wade with Shaq in 06 or Lebron with Wade & Bosh & Allen in '12?"

im sorry but having 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA... thats some pretty easy help.. Lebron cant win a championship by himself, he needs help, and always will need help. When people look back at Lebrons career, yes, they'll see him as one of the best players to ever play in the NBA, but, they'll also view him as a player who could not lead a team to a championship on his own, he needed help from other all star players.

I am a Lebron hater just like the next man....but in all fairness...NO ONE wins a ring alone...everyone from Jordan to Magic to Bird to Shaq to Kobe needed help to win a ring.....now how you got about finding the help is a different story....

BklynKnicks3
06-06-2013, 02:18 PM
Jordan
LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Robinson
Chamberlin
Magic
Malone
Abdul-Jabar
Oscar Robertsonson
Bird
Dr. J
Bill Russell
Walt Frazier not better then wade or close
Moses Malone
Earl Monroe not better
Iisah Thomas
John Stockton
Jerry West wade is the 3rd best sg ever
Charles Barkley
Elgin Baylor
Pete Marovich not better id liek to hera the reason behind this one he was a bigtime losing player until he joined celtics as a role player and iam a fan of him
Rick Barry no
Dirk Niowitzki this one is close

Theres about 25 right off the top of my head and if I actually sat down to think about it I'm sure I am missing people

Just curious where does he rank on your list of top 50 of all time?? he is between top 20 and 25

bucketss
06-06-2013, 02:22 PM
Are you talking about the Lebron who was outscored by his teammate Wade in his first finals with the heat? Yeah I'm exagerating and your not :facepalm: (pretty sure a fair amount of people thought Wade would get finals MVP if they won that series... lol)

Lebron is a great player no doubt I just think you are hiding the fact that he has the abundance of help that he does Wade was the 2nd best player when the formed and Bosh and Wade are still top 20... They all signed lower contracts to get even more help.

So just to make this clear to you Lebron is the best player in the league but he also has the most help talent wise by far... Possibly historically if you look at his 2nd best winning streak in NBA history for his squad.

Best player most help it's that simple!

Also you do not sound like a polishers for Lebrons ***, shaft and balls or a Lebronite... Not with amazing posts like that :rolleyes:

he had prime wade for one year, btw this is about only this year, its no secret lebron has been carrying dead weight not very characteristic of a player who has the most help ever.

bucketss
06-06-2013, 02:23 PM
I am a Lebron hater just like the next man....but in all fairness...NO ONE wins a ring alone...everyone from Jordan to Magic to Bird to Shaq to Kobe needed help to win a ring.....now how you got about finding the help is a different story....

no no bro, didn't you hear? jordan won by himself, pippen = shawn marion (someone actually said this btw)

TheIlladelph16
06-06-2013, 02:28 PM
Whoever is saying Wade isn't Top 50 all-time is outta their damn minds here. He is for sure in the 20-30 range depending on how you weight peak vs. longevity.

This Heat team was the better regular season team compared to the '06 squad, but Wade/Bosh/RayRay have played like hot garbage for a huge chunk of these playoffs, especially against Indiana. Shaq beasted in the playoffs that year with Wade until the finals.

Side note: These threads are perfect for identifying posters I don't take seriously as human beings. So congrats GhettoSean, Illusionist, Amoser (still quoting youtube videos, bleacher report, and no name blogs as "proof" of something hahahahahahahaha) and BklynKnicks.

NYCkid12
06-06-2013, 02:29 PM
he is between top 20 and 25

you've never seen Walt Frazier play if you think DWade is better than him

bucketss
06-06-2013, 02:29 PM
btw wades all time rank isn't going to help them win this series.

NYCkid12
06-06-2013, 02:31 PM
you've never seen Walt Frazier play if you think DWade is better than him

Although I will admit after sitting down and looking at the names, I was wrong...Wade is probably top 50

bucketss
06-06-2013, 02:31 PM
you've never seen Walt Frazier play if you think DWade is better than him

the guy you're talking to once said wade is rodney stuckey if he didn't get foul calls. lmao

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 02:39 PM
he had prime wade for one year, btw this is about only this year, its no secret lebron has been carrying dead weight not very characteristic of a player who has the most help ever.

Yes and like I mentioned this year his team has the 2nd best winning streak in NBA history. Sounds like a player who's up there to have the most help ever to me since they made such an historical mark.

Do you not agree? Or are you just going to play possum somemore :D

bucketss
06-06-2013, 02:56 PM
Yes and like I mentioned this year his team has the 2nd best winning streak in NBA history. Sounds like a player who's up there to have the most help ever to me since they made such an historical mark.

Do you not agree? Or are you just going to play possum somemore :D

rockets won 22 in a row, is tmac even in the top ten greatest supporting cast ever? his team didn't even show up until feb. and now they have disappeared again for the playoffs.

amos1er
06-06-2013, 03:26 PM
Of all time?? He's not

:laugh:

How embarrassing for you. You should lose all rights to ever post on here for such a foolish statement.

amos1er
06-06-2013, 03:28 PM
Although I will admit after sitting down and looking at the names, I was wrong...Wade is probably top 50

Ya think. :rolleyes:

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 03:30 PM
rockets won 22 in a row, is tmac even in the top ten greatest supporting cast ever? his team didn't even show up until feb. and now they have disappeared again for the playoffs.

TMac was one of the greatest players in the league at the time and Yao was one of the greatest C's in the league beyond Shaq and possibly Duncan. I also don't know all the circumstances behind that streak like were the teams they were playing crap, hurt... etc. Anyway to your question does this mean TMac had the greatest supporting cast ever or top 10 no but he definately had a good supporting cast on his squad during this streak and on top of that I don't know the rest of the circumstances of that streak and there opponents.

Forgetting about Houston for a second...

At the begining of the year did everyone and I mean damn near every NBA fan think the Miami heat was the best team in the league the answer --> Yes

Does Lebron have 2 top 20 players on his squad and just added the best 3 point shooter ever to his team --> Yes

After they aquired Ray Allen and Richard Lewis (who have both players have been relied on to be the top scorers on there teams in the past)... After they aquired these guys did they get Chris Anderson who is a great defender --> Yes

Did Miami make a 3 consecutive trip to the NBA finals --> Yes

Did they get the 2nd best wining streak of all time in the NBA this year --> Yes

Sorry Bucketts but I could go on and on with this but I think you get at this point that the 2nd best winning record in the NBA is just icing on the cake for this team. Lebron without a doubt goes up there as having the most help all time and I don't know why you have an issue coming to terms with this honestly there are just too many examples to bring up on why he does.

Suck it up dude... He's the best player in the league today with the most help... PERIOD!

NYCkid12
06-06-2013, 03:35 PM
:laugh:

How embarrassing for you. You should lose all rights to ever post on here for such a foolish statement.

But then what would I do with my life????

Redskins10
06-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Yao didnt play during the streak you imbecile.

@ghettosean

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 03:44 PM
Yao didnt play during the streak you imbecile.

@ghettosean

I made it clear I did not know the full circumstances of the streak. Read the post but I'm sure your not an moron or a dumb*** with your reading skills

amos1er
06-06-2013, 03:48 PM
But then what would I do with my life????

Guess you could spend more time worshiping Lebron.

amos1er
06-06-2013, 03:50 PM
TMac was one of the greatest players in the league at the time and Yao was one of the greatest C's in the league beyond Shaq and possibly Duncan. I also don't know all the circumstances behind that streak like were the teams they were playing crap, hurt... etc. Anyway to your question does this mean TMac had the greatest supporting cast ever or top 10 no but he definately had a good supporting cast on his squad during this streak and on top of that I don't know the rest of the circumstances of that streak and there opponents.

Forgetting about Houston for a second...

At the begining of the year did everyone and I mean damn near every NBA fan think the Miami heat was the best team in the league the answer --> Yes

Does Lebron have 2 top 20 players on his squad and just added the best 3 point shooter ever to his team --> Yes

After they aquired Ray Allen and Richard Lewis (who have both players have been relied on to be the top scorers on there teams in the past)... After they aquired these guys did they get Chris Anderson who is a great defender --> Yes

Did Miami make a 3 consecutive trip to the NBA finals --> Yes

Did they get the 2nd best wining streak of all time in the NBA this year --> Yes

Sorry Bucketts but I could go on and on with this but I think you get at this point that the 2nd best winning record in the NBA is just icing on the cake for this team. Lebron without a doubt goes up there as having the most help all time and I don't know why you have an issue coming to terms with this honestly there are just too many examples to bring up on why he does.

Suck it up dude... He's the best player in the league today with the most help... PERIOD!

Surely the best post in the thread!!!

100% truth.

amos1er
06-06-2013, 03:59 PM
Oh and lets not forget that not only does Lebron have the most help, he also plays in a joke of a conference. So his path to the finals every year is always a cake walk. The disparity in talent between Lebron's Heat and the teams in today's modern eastern conference is rivaled only by Russells Celtics back in the sixties.

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 04:12 PM
Oh and lets not forget that not only does Lebron have the most help, he also plays in a joke of a conference. So his path to the finals every year is always a cake walk. The disparity in talent between Lebron's Heat and the teams in today's modern eastern conference is rivaled only by Russells Celtics back in the sixties.

I'll have to agree that the 1st 2 teams he faces were jokes pretty much (I love how much intensity Chicago played with though). Miami was just that much more talented that these squads there record in the league, there winning streak, there consectutive appearances in the finals all show this to be true and it's not just Lebron or else he would have done it every year in Cleveland It's the help he has now!!! I just don't understand why people get so defensive on admiting that he is the best player in the league with the most help.

I mean all 3 top players on the team took paycuts so they could even snatch up extra talent to make the team even deeper so they could snach up a Ray Allen, Richard Lewis or Chris Andreson if they were around. People who think Lebron doesn't have an abundance of help on his sqaud are delusional in my opinion.

LBJackpot
06-06-2013, 04:20 PM
Oh and lets not forget that not only does Lebron have the most help, he also plays in a joke of a conference. So his path to the finals every year is always a cake walk. The disparity in talent between Lebron's Heat and the teams in today's modern eastern conference is rivaled only by Russells Celtics back in the sixties.

Ya it sure has been a cakewalk going to 7 games in the past 2 ECF's including one being down 3-2 going into Boston.

The Thunder of the almighty Western Conference lost to the Heat in 5 games last year.

The Grizzlies just got swept in the WCF by the Spurs who are not considered some world beaters.

LBJackpot
06-06-2013, 04:23 PM
I'll have to agree that the 1st 2 teams he faces were jokes pretty much (I love how much intensity Chicago played with though). Miami was just that much more talented that these squads there record in the league, there winning streak, there consectutive appearances in the finals all show this to be true and it's not just Lebron or else he would have done it every year in Cleveland It's the help he has now!!! I just don't understand why people get so defensive on admiting that he is the best player in the league with the most help.

I mean all 3 top players on the team took paycuts so they could even snatch up extra talent to make the team even deeper so they could snach up a Ray Allen, Richard Lewis or Chris Andreson if they were around. People who think Lebron doesn't have an abundance of help on his sqaud are delusional in my opinion.

What you fail to realize mr. ghetto is that names dont mean jack ****. Its about production. You guys sound like that JordanBulls guy who uses old *** Shaq and Ben Wallace to diminish LeBron.

I want to know your thoughts on the Heat vs. Pacers series. Did the Heat play like a stacked team?

bucketss
06-06-2013, 04:34 PM
TMac was one of the greatest players in the league at the time and Yao was one of the greatest C's in the league beyond Shaq and possibly Duncan. I also don't know all the circumstances behind that streak like were the teams they were playing crap, hurt... etc. Anyway to your question does this mean TMac had the greatest supporting cast ever or top 10 no but he definately had a good supporting cast on his squad during this streak and on top of that I don't know the rest of the circumstances of that streak and there opponents.

why don't you look at the circumstances of the heat??




At the begining of the year did everyone and I mean damn near every NBA fan think the Miami heat was the best team in the league the answer --> Yes


relevance??


Does Lebron have 2 top 20 players on his squad and just added the best 3 point shooter ever to his team --> Yes

again with the "best 3point shooter ever" crap in an attempt to strengthen your arguement, was allen the best 3 point shooter in the league last year?? no so why does what he did in his prime matter?? was he even the best 3 point shooter on his own team this year?


After they aquired Ray Allen and Richard Lewis (who have both players have been relied on to be the top scorers on there teams in the past)... After they aquired these guys did they get Chris Anderson who is a great defender --> Yes

again relying on what players did in the past to make your point, please tell me when was the last time lewis was a player who contributed to a team? and everyone has a chris andersen on their team, hes a role player who plays like 10-15 mins a game.


Did Miami make a 3 consecutive trip to the NBA finals --> Yes

relevance?


Did they get the 2nd best wining streak of all time in the NBA this year --> Yes

why does this matter???


Sorry Bucketts but I could go on and on with this but I think you get at this point that the 2nd best winning record in the NBA is just icing on the cake for this team. Lebron without a doubt goes up there as having the most help all time and I don't know why you have an issue coming to terms with this honestly there are just too many examples to bring up on why he does.

all of your example were horrid, you're one of the most illogical posters on this forum.. seriously

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 04:34 PM
What you fail to realize mr. ghetto is that names dont mean jack ****. Its about production. You guys sound like that JordanBulls guy who uses old *** Shaq and Ben Wallace to diminish LeBron.

I want to know your thoughts on the Heat vs. Pacers series. Did the Heat play like a stacked team?

The heat had there 1st challange in the playoffs against the pacers Wade is hurt and so is Bosh yet they still made it to the NBA finals with the talent on this team.... I'll also add in that with the NAMES that I mentioned in the last game Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen were all the top scorers.....

Lebron, Wade and Bosh were all the top rebounders as well....

Lebron has help dude stop with this what have you done for me lately crap look at the season or since Miami has come together look at the big picture.

Again:

2 top 20 players in the game with the addtion of Ray Allen best 3 point shooter of all time, Richard Lewis and Chris Anderson

3 consecutive trips to the NBA finals

If Lebron didn't crap the bed in there 1st year they would probably have won back to back championships and if they won the championship in the 1st year there was a good chance Wade would have been finals MVP

and they got the 2nd best winning streak of all time in NBA history.

You want to talk production well it sounds like the last 3 years have been pretty productive to me what about you?

bucketss
06-06-2013, 04:37 PM
Oh and lets not forget that not only does Lebron have the most help, he also plays in a joke of a conference. So his path to the finals every year is always a cake walk. The disparity in talent between Lebron's Heat and the teams in today's modern eastern conference is rivaled only by Russells Celtics back in the sixties.

2nd,3rd, and 4th best players of the ECF played on the pacers, in most cases lebron is really the difference.

bucketss
06-06-2013, 04:39 PM
The heat had there 1st challange in the playoffs against the pacers Wade is hurt and so is Bosh yet they still made it to the NBA finals with the talent on this team.... I'll also add in that with the NAMES that I mentioned in the last game Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen were all the top scorers.....

Lebron, Wade and Bosh were all the top rebounders as well....

Lebron has help dude stop with this what have you done for me lately crap look at the season or since Miami has come together look at the big picture.

Again:

2 top 20 players in the game with the addtion of Ray Allen best 3 point shooter of all time, Richard Lewis and Chris Anderson

3 consecutive trips to the NBA finals

If Lebron didn't crap the bed in there 1st year they would probably have won back to back championships and if they won the championship in the 1st year there was a good chance Wade would have been finals MVP

and they got the 2nd best winning streak of all time in NBA history.

You want to talk production well it sounds like the last 3 years have been pretty productive to me what about you?

last game? why don't you mention the whole series? i think thats more relevant than the last game.

Becks2307
06-06-2013, 04:41 PM
Just because they are playing like **** it doesn't mean he doesn't have help. It's not like they arent playing.

bucketss
06-06-2013, 04:47 PM
Just because they are playing like **** it doesn't mean he doesn't have help. It's not like they arent playing.

if they're playing like ****, than they're not much help are they?

ghettosean
06-06-2013, 04:51 PM
why don't you look at the circumstances of the heat??


I am and I'm not looking at it from a what have you done for me lately perspective like you I'm looking at everything in it's entirity


relevance??

Since they were picked as a top team by damn near every fan in the league should show that they have the most talented roster in the league does it not?


again with the "best 3point shooter ever" crap in an attempt to strengthen your arguement, was allen the best 3 point shooter in the league last year?? no so why does what he did in his prime matter?? was he even the best 3 point shooter on his own team this year?

Hmmmmmmm you want to look at Ray Allen of last year to see how talented he is... Hmmmmmmmmm let me think oh I got it he was an integral part of the Boston Celtics taking the Miami heat to 7 games last year and now instead of facing them again he has joined there squad. Seems like another rival joining them would help them out a lot... Don't you think?



again relying on what players did in the past to make your point, please tell me when was the last time lewis was a player who contributed to a team? and everyone has a chris andersen on their team, hes a role player who plays like 10-15 mins a game.

Lewis has not stepped up as of yet but not really given the time to step up since there is so much talent standing between him and playing time. As for Lewis and Chris Andreson Lebron, Bosh and Wade all took pay cuts to ensure they could get players like this on there time when in fact the team technically shouldn't be able to afford them.




all of your example were horrid, you're one of the most illogical posters on this forum.. seriously
Bucketts all of your replies are pretty much one word responses, one liners or insults to say I'm an illogical poster especially coming from you is a pretty moronic response. Lebron, Wade and Bosh all top 20 players in the league with a fantastic supporting cast they have proven there worth through almost breaking the best regular NBA season record for wins in a row, almost winning back to back championships, his supporting cast constantly making the allstar team, one of his rivals that was crucial in taking them to 7 games in the ECF in 2012 joined his squad and they added on Chris Anderson and Richard Lewis and you still play possum like Lebron doesn't have an abundance of help. 3 max players take paycuts to get extra help and you don't think LBJ has a lot of help :facepalm:

What else can I say at this point except you just don't know basketball.

sunnyice
06-06-2013, 04:58 PM
How can you take these haters seriously when its their full time job to hate lebron without pay. These low life's dedicate their life on that. Just look at their sigs. They all took time to make or write something to diminish Lebrons greatness. How can someone take these guys seriously when they have something to say about lebron considering their sigs.

slaker619
06-06-2013, 04:58 PM
Wade in 06' because of all the supporting cast some great players there !

bucketss
06-06-2013, 05:05 PM
I am and I'm not looking at it from a what have you done for me lately perspective like you I'm looking at everything in it's entirity

no you're not, why don't you look if teams were injured, how many of those teams were below .500, and how many were on the road.



Since they were picked as a top team by damn near every fan in the league should show that they have the most talented roster in the league does it not?

so were the lakers, so no.


Hmmmmmmm you want to look at Ray Allen of last year to see how talented he is... Hmmmmmmmmm let me think oh I got it he was an integral part of the Boston Celtics taking the Miami heat to 7 games last year and now instead of facing them again he has joined there squad. Seems like another rival joining them would help them out a lot... Don't you think?
lmao i didn't know allen single handily pushed miami to 7 games, dude lost his starting job to bradley but unfortunately bradley was got injured, and btw allen avg. 11 points a game on horrendous shooting so he wasn't intergral part of that series, he was a shell of his former self.





Lewis has not stepped up as of yet but not really given the time to step up since there is so much talent standing between him and playing time. As for Lewis and Chris Andreson Lebron, Bosh and Wade all took pay cuts to ensure they could get players like this on there time when in fact the team technically shouldn't be able to afford them.

lewis and andersen took paycuts? both were considered minimum salary players, lewis is garbage seriously if you're going to say he wasn't given a chance than you don't watch heat games, im suprised you think someone would actually offer lewis more than the minimum WTF



Bucketts all of your replies are pretty much one word responses, one liners or insults to say I'm an illogical poster especially coming from you is a pretty moronic response. Lebron, Wade and Bosh all top 20 players in the league with a fantastic supporting cast they have proven there worth through almost breaking the best regular NBA season record for wins in a row, almost winning back to back championships, his supporting cast constantly making the allstar team, one of his rivals that was crucial in taking them to 7 games in the ECF in 2012 joined his squad and they added on Chris Anderson and Richard Lewis and you still play possum like Lebron doesn't have an abundance of help.

maybe you should stop with those sarcastic eye roles and maybe you will be treated with more respect??


What else can I say at this point except you just don't know basketball.

coming from the guy who thinks rashard lewis took a paycut? or is a even a good player anymore??, coming from the guy who keeps using players past accompaniments to judge them as a player today? im suprised you havent said battier is the best defender in the league, or juwan howard is a solid big man SMH

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 05:11 PM
:laugh:

How embarrassing for you. You should lose all rights to ever post on here for such a foolish statement.


Ya think. :rolleyes:

Yeah, what a god awful post.

bucketss
06-06-2013, 05:15 PM
3 lebron haters on this thread, all three of them have their sig space dedicated to lebron:laugh:

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 06:02 PM
Oh and lets not forget that not only does Lebron have the most help, he also plays in a joke of a conference. So his path to the finals every year is always a cake walk. The disparity in talent between Lebron's Heat and the teams in today's modern eastern conference is rivaled only by Russells Celtics back in the sixties.

This.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 06:07 PM
I'll have to agree that the 1st 2 teams he faces were jokes pretty much (I love how much intensity Chicago played with though). Miami was just that much more talented that these squads there record in the league, there winning streak, there consectutive appearances in the finals all show this to be true and it's not just Lebron or else he would have done it every year in Cleveland It's the help he has now!!! I just don't understand why people get so defensive on admiting that he is the best player in the league with the most help.

I mean all 3 top players on the team took paycuts so they could even snatch up extra talent to make the team even deeper so they could snach up a Ray Allen, Richard Lewis or Chris Andreson if they were around. People who think Lebron doesn't have an abundance of help on his sqaud are delusional in my opinion.
We need more posters like you.

3 lebron haters on this thread, all three of them have their sig space dedicated to lebron:laugh:

:dance2:

Spurs365
06-06-2013, 06:14 PM
Wade had a pretty good squad in 2006 with Jason Williams, Payton, Mourning, Posey, shaq, etc. But the talent that lebron has around him is undeniable. Wade, Bosh, Battier, Allen, Miller, Anderson, Chalmers, Lewis, etc. Everyone needs helps, but IMO lebron has a little more help.

bucketss
06-06-2013, 06:14 PM
We need more posters like you.


:dance2:

you will never catch me rocking a sig about kobe, that dude is irrelevant in the basketball world today.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-06-2013, 06:19 PM
you will never catch me rocking a sig about kobe, that dude is irrelevant in the basketball world today.

Why aren't you rocking a Heat sig? Have you still not come out of the closet as one??

smith&wesson
06-06-2013, 06:26 PM
shaq was a beast in miami the year they won. he started being injury prone after and was traded to phx where he was still pretty decent. but it was then when he trully started showing signs of slowing down.

bucketss
06-06-2013, 06:26 PM
Why aren't you rocking a Heat sig? Have you still not come out of the closet as one??

i never talk about the heat, usually im talking about lebron so what makes you think im an undercover heat fan? unlike you i can admit im a lebron fan, you on the other hand still can't admit its kobe first than the lakers.

sunnyice
06-06-2013, 06:48 PM
3 lebron haters on this thread, all three of them have their sig space dedicated to lebron:laugh:

Exactly. These clowns shouldn't be taken seriously.

LBJackpot
06-06-2013, 07:53 PM
I love the LeBron haters that hate him enough to actually use him as a sig. Its clear the dude owns your souls. Im considered a LeBron stan but its become pretty obvious his haters are more obsessed with him than his stans.

How many LeBron fans rock Kobe sigs? Probably very few because that would be embarrassing.

Edit: damn just saw you guys already said what I wanted to say lol

RiceOnTheRun
06-06-2013, 08:21 PM
Since they were picked as a top team by damn near every fan in the league should show that they have the most talented roster in the league does it not?

Hmmmmmmm you want to look at Ray Allen of last year to see how talented he is... Hmmmmmmmmm let me think oh I got it he was an integral part of the Boston Celtics taking the Miami heat to 7 games last year and now instead of facing them again he has joined there squad. Seems like another rival joining them would help them out a lot... Don't you think?

Lewis has not stepped up as of yet but not really given the time to step up since there is so much talent standing between him and playing time. As for Lewis and Chris Andreson Lebron, Bosh and Wade all took pay cuts to ensure they could get players like this on there time when in fact the team technically shouldn't be able to afford them.

Bucketts all of your replies are pretty much one word responses, one liners or insults to say I'm an illogical poster especially coming from you is a pretty moronic response. Lebron, Wade and Bosh all top 20 players in the league with a fantastic supporting cast they have proven there worth through almost breaking the best regular NBA season record for wins in a row, almost winning back to back championships, his supporting cast constantly making the allstar team, one of his rivals that was crucial in taking them to 7 games in the ECF in 2012 joined his squad and they added on Chris Anderson and Richard Lewis and you still play possum like Lebron doesn't have an abundance of help. 3 max players take paycuts to get extra help and you don't think LBJ has a lot of help :facepalm:

What else can I say at this point except you just don't know basketball.

#1 : Fans also picked the Lakers as most likely to win the NBA title this season, doesn't seem so smart eh? Face it, most NBA fans are mentally handicapped. Or, at least they act like they are.

#2 : Integral? The entire reason Ray left was because he felt unappreciated by the Celtics and they were basically planning on replacing him in the starting lineup.

#3 : You're faulting the big three for taking pay cuts? That's called being unselfish. Look at the Knicks. They trade half their team for Melo at 19m a year. Kobe on the Lakers. 30m salary. If he takes Lebron's salary of 17m, they cut off a significant amount of luxury tax and might even be able to sign another able bodied player and god knows they could've used that this season. Lebron could easily get the max today and in 2010 I'm pretty sure Bosh and Wade could have also. But they would have no depth whatsoever. This is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard someone say against them.

#4 : Nobody's talking about the past years. We're talking about this post-season and for the most crucial series, Bosh and Wade basically went MIA. Ray and Battier weren't hitting their shots and Birdman missed a crucial game six. Rashard Lewis hasn't done **** either. Bosh and Wade basically averaged together what Lebron did on his own up until game seven.

I don't get your whole thing against them taking paycuts. I sure as hell would appreciate it if Melo and Amare both took paycuts for us. Lord knows we could use another 10m in cap space. They sacrifice for the better of the tea, of course you wouldn't know anything about that.

bucketss
06-06-2013, 08:31 PM
As for Lewis and Chris Andreson Lebron, Bosh and Wade all took pay cuts to ensure they could get players like this on there time when in fact the team technically shouldn't be able to afford them.

What else can I say at this point except you just don't know basketball.

also gotta call you out on this, what do you mean they wouldn't be able to afford players like these?? those guys singed with miami for the veterans minimum, if you don't know .. you can offer as much of those kinds of contracts as you WANT to fill up your roster, so no the paycuts wade/bosh/lebron took have no impact on those guys, who doesn't know basketball now?

amos1er
06-07-2013, 02:58 AM
Lebron's tripple double's are one of the biggest illusions in sports. He stacks artificially high rebound numbers due to the fact that he doesn't play with a real center. As a result, his rebounding stats are great, but his teams rebounding is at the bottom of the league. His triple doubles are truly meaningless and I one could argue come at the cost of his teams success. Same goes with his assist totals as well. If he played with a true point guard they wouldn't be as high either. Is it really to his teams benefit for him to be a playmaker on offense and a rebounder on defense? Wouldn't it be more efficient for him to play more of a wing roll so that he could focus more on scoring and defense then just fill in the gaps where need be instead of building a team with a soft stretch 4 and 5 and a spot up shooing 1 in order to fill up his stat sheet? Of course this would hurt his stat totals, but wouldn't it give his team a better chance to win? Isn't that what it's all about...winning.

I've been saying for years that Lebron is nothing more than a regular season dynamo who can put up meaningless stats that don't really help his team all that much. This is great for winning regular season MVP's in the weak eastern conference, but bad for playoff basketball. No wonder he needed such a stacked team to win. He needed players that were good enough to pick up the slack so that he could win a title while putting up his precious stats which anyone smart can see are noting more than a mere mirage.

Slade123
06-07-2013, 09:58 AM
Of all time?? He's not

Yes, yes he is. And I hate Wade.

BklynKnicks3
06-07-2013, 12:39 PM
he would be but he gets them so he is not and his production has been crazy career wise. Lebron can never win a ring the legit way the way wade did and ya lebron fans hate it!
the guy you're talking to once said wade is rodney stuckey if he didn't get foul calls. lmao

Chitownhero1992
06-07-2013, 01:00 PM
Heat definitely have more help on their team this season...LBJ with Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier, Haslem, etc

LBJ has so many options to kick to on this team and that's why his assists are way over inflated.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-07-2013, 01:16 PM
Lebron's tripple double's are one of the biggest illusions in sports. He stacks artificially high rebound numbers due to the fact that he doesn't play with a real center. As a result, his rebounding stats are great, but his teams rebounding is at the bottom of the league. His triple doubles are truly meaningless and I one could argue come at the cost of his teams success. Same goes with his assist totals as well. If he played with a true point guard they wouldn't be as high either. Is it really to his teams benefit for him to be a playmaker on offense and a rebounder on defense? Wouldn't it be more efficient for him to play more of a wing roll so that he could focus more on scoring and defense then just fill in the gaps where need be instead of building a team with a soft stretch 4 and 5 and a spot up shooing 1 in order to fill up his stat sheet? Of course this would hurt his stat totals, but wouldn't it give his team a better chance to win? Isn't that what it's all about...winning.

I've been saying for years that Lebron is nothing more than a regular season dynamo who can put up meaningless stats that don't really help his team all that much. This is great for winning regular season MVP's in the weak eastern conference, but bad for playoff basketball. No wonder he needed such a stacked team to win. He needed players that were good enough to pick up the slack so that he could win a title while putting up his precious stats which anyone smart can see are noting more than a mere mirage.


Yes, yes he is. And I hate Wade.


Heat definitely have more help on their team this season...LBJ with Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier, Haslem, etc

LBJ has so many options to kick to on this team and that's why his assists are way over inflated.

+3

Chronz
06-07-2013, 01:19 PM
Rinse-Reuse-Recyle

+1

8kobe24
06-07-2013, 01:21 PM
Rinse-Reuse-Recyle

+1

PSD is going green.

BklynKnicks3
06-07-2013, 01:24 PM
this damn thread is blasphemy the guy took the biggest shortcut in history n u people bring up help. Wade bosh obv not healthy but defense still has to worry about them

Chronz
06-07-2013, 01:48 PM
defense still has to worry bout them .....

epic cast

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-07-2013, 02:03 PM
rinse-reuse-recyle

+1

: D