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DreamShaker
06-04-2013, 03:14 AM
Grant Hill retiring recently prompted me to ponder his, and others, HOF cred. While there is no doubt Hill was a HOF talent, injuries put a huge damper on his career, as it has so many. Nonetheless I am going to list Hill, and a number of others, and I ask you to say yes or no to them being HOFers.
We must also consider international and college careers since the HOF is not just NBA.

The suspects:

Grant Hill
Dikembe Mutombo
Alonzo Mourning
Tim Hardaway
Vince Carter
Chauncey Billups
Chris Webber
Yao Ming
Tracy McGrady
Ben Wallace
Vlade Divac

JEDean89
06-04-2013, 03:17 AM
i think almost all those guys are HOFers. Not first ballot or anything but most of them will likely be inducted. maybe not yao and ben wallace but the other guys probably.

waveycrockett
06-04-2013, 03:21 AM
Hill is a no for me. Once he left Detroit his HOF resume ended. He has been just a "pretty good" player since Detroit

Chronz
06-04-2013, 03:22 AM
Grant Hill - YES (College+Olympic success) Solid NBA Career, TREMENDOUS during his prime
Dikembe Mutombo - Yes (Humanitarian, epic defeat of a #1 seed, DPOY's etc) May not look like much but when the guy is this great of a human being, he will get the nod.

Alonzo Mourning - Similar to Deke only with more individual success in a shorter prime.
Tim Hardaway - No
Vince Carter - Yes
Chauncey Billups - Hes halfway in already
Chris Webber - Prolly should get in for what the Fab5 meant + All-Star career, dont know if he has the rep
Yao Ming - Hes already in
Tracy McGrady - No, he should but Lacks the rep and team success. Hes borderline because hes had an odd career filled with highs and lows.

Chronz
06-04-2013, 03:22 AM
Hill is a no for me. Once he left Detroit his HOF resume ended. He has been just a "pretty good" player since Detroit
NBA HOF or BBALL HOF?

PhillyFaninLA
06-04-2013, 04:00 AM
Based on what he did in the NBA alone he is a HOF'er...he showed that even with the injuries he was better than almost every player ever...I would probably put him somewhere in the 30's in alltime NBA players...considering he had a great college career he should be a lock

PhillyFaninLA
06-04-2013, 04:03 AM
NBA HOF or BBALL HOF?

The NBA HOF does not exist (what I mean is seperatly from other basketball in a literal sense)...its the basketball HOF not NBA so entire basketball body of work is considered.

Heck an international player or coach we have never heard of or a woman's college player that is a phenom needs to considered...its called The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame

PhillyFaninLA
06-04-2013, 04:07 AM
The suspects:

Grant Hill - lock
Dikembe Mutombo - lock
Alonzo Mourning - could go either way but I'd probably give him a vote
Tim Hardaway - not special, just good
Vince Carter - no, not even close, he was a highlight reel that if he played with the exact same career 20 years earlier would not be considered
Chauncey Billups - no, he was a nice player but far from special
Chris Webber - considering his college career (minus that timeout) maybe but I would not vote for him
Yao Ming - not enough years, he could have been
Tracy McGrady - no, highly overrated by a lot of people, he was an all star not a hall of famer
Ben Wallace - no, he was a great defender and I wouldn't be bothered if he got in but he woudln't get my vote
Vlade Divac - I wouldn't vote for him but I think he may sneak in

waveycrockett
06-04-2013, 04:17 AM
The NBA HOF does not exist (what I mean is seperatly from other basketball in a literal sense)...its the basketball HOF not NBA so entire basketball body of work is considered.

Heck an international player or coach we have never heard of or a woman's college player that is a phenom needs to considered...its called The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame

I forgot the NBA doesn't have it's own HOF. In that case yes with combined college/olympic success. If it were strictly an NBA HOF like the NFL has then he would be on the outside looking in.

JJ_JKidd
06-04-2013, 06:01 AM
Grant Hill retiring recently prompted me to ponder his, and others, HOF cred. While there is no doubt Hill was a HOF talent, injuries put a huge damper on his career, as it has so many. Nonetheless I am going to list Hill, and a number of others, and I ask you to say yes or no to them being HOFers.
We must also consider international and college careers since the HOF is not just NBA.

The suspects:

Grant Hill
Dikembe Mutombo
Alonzo Mourning
Tim Hardaway
Vince Carter
Chauncey Billups
Chris Webber
Yao Ming
Tracy McGrady
Ben Wallace
Vlade Divac

Grant Hill - not that much convinced.
Dikembe Mutombo - YES. international impact, spreading the game worldwide.
Alonzo Mourning - YES. life threathening kidney ailment, still managed to play. inspired others.
Tim Hardaway - NO, unless he was the one who really revolutionized the crossover (?).
Vince Carter - Is reinventing or reviving the dunk contest a contribution to the game? If yes, then he is IN.
Chauncey Billups - YES.
Chris Webber - DO NOT KNOW
Yao Ming - YES. same as Deke.
Tracy McGrady - NO.
Ben Wallace - YES.
Vlade Divac - YES. one of the first international stars.


In determining whose IN or OUT let us all please remember their contribution to the game.

Hellcrooner
06-04-2013, 09:48 AM
Grant Hill retiring recently prompted me to ponder his, and others, HOF cred. While there is no doubt Hill was a HOF talent, injuries put a huge damper on his career, as it has so many. Nonetheless I am going to list Hill, and a number of others, and I ask you to say yes or no to them being HOFers.
We must also consider international and college careers since the HOF is not just NBA.

The suspects:

Grant Hill yes ( ncaa and fiba)
Dikembe Mutombo Yes one of the best defenders ever
Alonzo Mourning dont think so
Tim Hardaway dont think so
Vince Carter no
Chauncey Billups probably yep
Chris Webber yep
Yao Ming of course, but maybe as a contributor
Tracy McGrady dont think so
Ben Wallace yes, defense
Vlade Divac of course
.

macc
06-04-2013, 10:10 AM
To the people who say no to T-Mac. I take it you're all children or just very young because if you had a clue you would realize it's a very easy yes he's going to make it.

The guy dominated in the NBA for a decade. With a couple years around that decade having very good numbers. With all his injuries post 30 he struggled but from age 18-28 he dominated.

If you're telling me a decade straight of dominating in the NBA (one point being arguablly the best player in the league) doesn't get you into the HOF then I question your basketball knowledge.

The sad thing is you have people saying yes to Ben Wallace but no to T-Mac. It's laughable really.

PhillyFaninLA
06-04-2013, 10:12 AM
To the people who say no to T-Mac. I take it you're all children or just very young because if you had a clue you would realize it's a very easy yes he's going to make it.

The guy dominated in the NBA for a decade. With a couple years around that decade having very good numbers. With all his injuries post 30 he struggled but from age 18-28 he dominated.

If you're telling me a decade straight of dominating in the NBA (one point being arguablly the best player in the league) doesn't get you into the HOF then I question your basketball knowledge.


I'm not so young and you are not providing contrary evidence just ranting like a child. You seem to crying because people disagree with your view.

There was no season he was the best or even second or third best player in the league.

There is a difference between an all star and hall of famer. He wasn't well rounded and he wasn't truly special.

2-ONE-5
06-04-2013, 11:21 AM
kinda surpised how many people dont realize that Yao is already in.

JerseyPalahniuk
06-04-2013, 11:24 AM
I forgot the NBA doesn't have it's own HOF. In that case yes with combined college/olympic success. If it were strictly an NBA HOF like the NFL has then he would be on the outside looking in.

LOL. Do other countries play NFL? Otherwise they would also have a "football" hall of fame as well.

PhillyFaninLA
06-04-2013, 11:25 AM
kinda surpised how many people dont realize that Yao is already in.

He is? I had no idea.

LAKERS 24/7
06-04-2013, 11:27 AM
I'm not so young and you are not providing contrary evidence just ranting like a child. You seem to crying because people disagree with your view.

There was no season he was the best or even second or third best player in the league.

There is a difference between an all star and hall of famer. He wasn't well rounded and he wasn't truly special.

:rolleyes:

Swashcuff
06-04-2013, 11:31 AM
kinda surpised how many people dont realize that Yao is already in.

I once argued this with a guy, damn that was a long argument and damn that guy was hard headed. Yao is basically a lock, his contributions to the game of basketball and worldwide impact is matched by a select few.

Hellcrooner
06-04-2013, 11:35 AM
To the people who say no to T-Mac. I take it you're all children or just very young because if you had a clue you would realize it's a very easy yes he's going to make it.

The guy dominated in the NBA for a decade. With a couple years around that decade having very good numbers. With all his injuries post 30 he struggled but from age 18-28 he dominated.

If you're telling me a decade straight of dominating in the NBA (one point being arguablly the best player in the league) doesn't get you into the HOF then I question your basketball knowledge.

The sad thing is you have people saying yes to Ben Wallace but no to T-Mac. It's laughable really.



Ive been watching for 28 years thanks.

Tmacs case is around the same than Kiki Vandewheges.

May happen, or may not.

Swashcuff
06-04-2013, 11:38 AM
To the people who say no to T-Mac. I take it you're all children or just very young because if you had a clue you would realize it's a very easy yes he's going to make it.

The guy dominated in the NBA for a decade. With a couple years around that decade having very good numbers. With all his injuries post 30 he struggled but from age 18-28 he dominated.

If you're telling me a decade straight of dominating in the NBA (one point being arguablly the best player in the league) doesn't get you into the HOF then I question your basketball knowledge.

The sad thing is you have people saying yes to Ben Wallace but no to T-Mac. It's laughable really.

Chronz is probably the 2nd oldest poster on PSD and T-Mac's one of his most favourite players ever I mean look at his sig he has a man crush on him, he knows T-Mac's game and accomplishments better than many of the biggest T-Mac lovers, even he said its unlikely.

He didn't dominate the league for a decade that's LeBron James, Shaq, Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, KG type territory, T-Mac isn't quite in that realm.

2-ONE-5
06-04-2013, 11:50 AM
I once argued this with a guy, damn that was a long argument and damn that guy was hard headed. Yao is basically a lock, his contributions to the game of basketball and worldwide impact is matched by a select few.

i actually thought he was already in, he would have been in 2012 however i just read he asked for his induction to be put on hold in 2011 bcuz he thought it was too soon. Regardless he will be in as an ambassador for the game not as a player which is why he was nominated so fast.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6913115/yao-ming-asks-basketball-hall-fame-put-nomination-hold

Pistol_Pete
06-04-2013, 01:16 PM
Personally, I'd probably only pick Yao (for global contribution) and Mutombo (for defense play and humanitarian efforts). But, look at the list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_in_the_Naismith_Memorial_Basketbal l_Hall_of_Fame) of people who are already in. Based on that, it looks like just about everyone on this list is getting in.

Bravo95
06-04-2013, 01:38 PM
Grant Hill - Yes, people bought FILAs.
Dikembe Mutombo - Yes
Alonzo Mourning - Yes
Tim Hardaway - No
Vince Carter - Close but I'll say yes.
Chauncey Billups - Yes
Chris Webber - Yes
Yao Ming - Yes
Tracy McGrady - No, but I wouldn't be mad if he did.
Ben Wallace - Yes
Vlade Divac - Yes

tr3ymill3r
06-04-2013, 01:43 PM
all of them get in if it's just basketball HOF

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2013, 01:46 PM
i think almost all those guys are HOFers. Not first ballot or anything but most of them will likely be inducted. maybe not yao and ben wallace but the other guys probably.

Yao is a shoe in. Ben has more achievements than some guys in the hall.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2013, 01:47 PM
Everyone but Hardaway is getting in

Chronz
06-04-2013, 01:48 PM
The NBA HOF does not exist (what I mean is seperatly from other basketball in a literal sense)...its the basketball HOF not NBA so entire basketball body of work is considered.

Heck an international player or coach we have never heard of or a woman's college player that is a phenom needs to considered...its called The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame
I know it doesn't exist breh. Im asking him for his criteria because it seemed like hes the one who either wasn't aware of the current criteria or simply didn't like their chances regardless.

ThaDubs
06-04-2013, 02:55 PM
Grant Hill - Yes.
Dikembe Mutombo - Yes.
Alonzo Mourning - Yes.
Tim Hardaway - No. Amazing player in his prime to go with a devastating crossover but not HOF caliber.
Vince Carter - Probably. Unstoppable scorer in his prime and even a little bit when he was on the Nets.
Chauncey Billups - Maybe. Terrific defender and beast with the Pistons.
Chris Webber - Possibly. Great guy and a great commentator, I'll be very happy for him if he makes HOF.
Tracy McGrady - Maybe. One of my favorite players ever and when he was on the Magic he was doing unbelievable stuff. He led the league in scoring twice iirc. I think he's HOF caliber.
Ben Wallace - Possibly. Terrible scorer but his defense and rebounding was impeccable.
Vlade Divac - Probably not. Good scorer and rebounder and he was beast with the Kings and Lakers. One of the best passing centers I've seen but not really HOF caliber.

PhillyFaninLA
06-04-2013, 03:00 PM
I know it doesn't exist breh. Im asking him for his criteria because it seemed like hes the one who either wasn't aware of the current criteria or simply didn't like their chances regardless.

breh, really....really

wow why should I care what you say when you say breh and needed to be corrected.

lamzoka
06-04-2013, 03:13 PM
Grant Hill.............NO
Dikembe Mutombo............Yes
Alonzo Mourning...........Yes
Tim Hardaway...........Yes
Vince Carter...........NO
Chauncey Billups...........Yes
Chris Webber...........Yes
Yao Ming...........NO
Tracy McGrady...........NO
Ben Wallace...........NO
Vlade Divac...........NO

macc
06-04-2013, 03:13 PM
I'm not so young and you are not providing contrary evidence just ranting like a child. You seem to crying because people disagree with your view.

There was no season he was the best or even second or third best player in the league.

There is a difference between an all star and hall of famer. He wasn't well rounded and he wasn't truly special.



You sir are an idiot. From 2002-2004 he was arguabally the best player in the NBA. The debate was between him and Kobe with him having the better overall numbers.

You say he wasn't a well rounded player and not special. This is laughable. If he wasn't well rounded then how was he averaging 25-32ppg 5.5-8 rpg and 5.5-6 apg & 1-2 spg and a block?

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself, THEN post. Look up the numbers and see for yourself. You can bring up the fact that his teams struggled in the playoffs when in reality his team was always the underdog and lower rated seed except when he was on Houston and was a 5 seed vs a 6th seed. The one year T Mac carried Orlando on his back and almost knocked off the #1 seeded (on to be champion)Detroit Pistons in the first round of the playoffs.

So once again. He will easily be in the HOF. If he's not a first ballot he'll be a 2nd ballet. He was a true superstar in his prime and extrememly explosive. People just forget because his last productive season was in 09.

Slug3
06-04-2013, 03:14 PM
.Grant Hill retiring recently prompted me to ponder his, and others, HOF cred. While there is no doubt Hill was a HOF talent, injuries put a huge damper on his career, as it has so many. Nonetheless I am going to list Hill, and a number of others, and I ask you to say yes or no to them being HOFers.
We must also consider international and college careers since the HOF is not just NBA.

The suspects:

Grant Hill yes ( ncaa and fiba)
Dikembe Mutombo Yes one of the best defenders ever
Alonzo Mourning dont think so
Tim Hardaway dont think so
Vince Carter no
Chauncey Billups probably yep
Chris Webber yep
Yao Ming of course, but maybe as a contributor
Tracy McGrady dont think so
Ben Wallace yes, defense
Vlade Divac of course

How can you put Mutumbo but no Zo? Zo was probably just as good on the defensive end but had double the points average for his career.

macc
06-04-2013, 03:31 PM
Think about this.

T Mac won 2 scoring titles, 6 all star teams, 7 all NBA teams (2 first team), finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 6 times. He's even posted a PER over 30, only 7 players in NBA HISTORY have had a PER that high. He carried the Magic to the playoffs 3 years in a row where his next two best players were Mike MIller and Darrel Armstrong.

Chris Mullen made it to the HOF last year and he wasn't nearly as dominate as a player in his prime.

There may be a debate whether he's a first ballet/sec ballet ect, but he's getting in. Once again, it's laughable if you think otherwise.

Rivera
06-04-2013, 03:34 PM
The suspects:

Grant Hill
yes
Dikembe Mutombo
yes
Alonzo Mourning
yes
Tim Hardaway
no
Vince Carter
yes
Chauncey Billups
no
Chris Webber
yes
Yao Ming
yes
Tracy McGrady
no
Ben Wallace
no
Vlade Divac yes

LongWayFromHome
06-04-2013, 04:21 PM
Grant Hill - yes
Dikembe Mutombo - yes
Alonzo Mourning - yes
Tim Hardaway - close
Vince Carter - no
Chauncey Billups - no
Chris Webber - close
Yao Ming - yes
Tracy McGrady - he has to be. right?
Ben Wallace - no
Vlade Divac - yes

I wish there was an NBA HOF that was very exclusive. But the truth is there isn't and the Basketball HOF isn't exclusive at all.

PS - I think Carter won't get in. But if Reggie's in Carter should be too.

LongWayFromHome
06-04-2013, 04:27 PM
Here is the basketball modification of the "Keltner list" which is sort of the litmus test for the baseball HOF:


1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in basketball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in basketball?

2. Was he the best player on his team?

3. Was he the best player in basketball at his position?

4. Did he have an impact on a number of NBA Finals or Conference Finals?

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

6. Is he the very best (eligible) basketball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win an NBA title?

14. What impact did the player have on basketball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Was his college and/or international career especially noteworthy?

15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

Chronz
06-05-2013, 01:51 PM
breh, really....really

wow why should I care what you say when you say breh and needed to be corrected.

Dont know what you are talking about broseph. Corrected about what? Care about facts?

Chronz
06-05-2013, 01:55 PM
Think about this.

T Mac won 2 scoring titles, 6 all star teams, 7 all NBA teams (2 first team), finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 6 times. He's even posted a PER over 30, only 7 players in NBA HISTORY have had a PER that high. He carried the Magic to the playoffs 3 years in a row where his next two best players were Mike MIller and Darrel Armstrong.

Chris Mullen made it to the HOF last year and he wasn't nearly as dominate as a player in his prime.

There may be a debate whether he's a first ballet/sec ballet ect, but he's getting in. Once again, it's laughable if you think otherwise.
Yea but Mullin had a pretty good college career and he was an Olympian. These things stand out more than Tmac having a far superior stretch of NBA ball. At least it seems that way based on their historical selections.

Trust, nobody is saying Tmac wasn't among the best to ever play when he was healthy, but a HOF career is more than just what the individual did, it involves a certain amount of luck.

Its twisted logic I know, for some reason we show more respect to children who succeed in the NCAA against other children, but completely ignore a teenager producing impressively against grown men in the NBA.

RLundi
06-05-2013, 03:48 PM
breh, really....really

wow why should I care what you say when you say breh and needed to be corrected.

Wow. Just wow.

b@llhog24
06-05-2013, 11:22 PM
Wow. Just wow.

Lol. Same thing I was thinking.