PDA

View Full Version : Is JVG really an elite coach?



Cracka2HI!
06-02-2013, 06:52 PM
I didn't know much about basketball when he was still coaching 6 years ago. What kind of coach is he? What makes him great if you think he is? Do you think he will still have what it takes to be an elite coach after so much time away?

LayBraun
06-02-2013, 06:54 PM
He's a whole hell if a lot better than Del Negro and PJ C so I hope that answers your question lol.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 06:58 PM
better than the guys he'd potentially be replacing.

but he ain't no SVG

Chronz
06-02-2013, 08:51 PM
There are only 2 elite coaches in the NBA ranks (the 2 that have all da ringz)

JVG is that notch beneath them but its a pretty significant gap in a field where pretty much all other coaches are replaceable (imo) . So dont expect miracles but you should never expect failure from him either. He has a BEAUTIFUL track record for getting his teams to improve leaps and bounds defensively. Unlike other defensive oriented coaches (including his bro), he doesn't grind and wear on you, his players (particularly his stars) have respected him, so you can hire him in any situation and he will help build the foundation for the long haul if need be.


better than the guys he'd potentially be replacing.

but he ain't no SVG

Hes come a long way since the days when he benched D-Wade but hes still has a way to go as a long term leader/motivator, and I dont trust his adjustments one bit.

The Master of Panic has (to some degree, which JVG hasnt) lost the respect of every HOF Center he ever coached. Dwight, Shaq, ZO. JVG is beloved by his stars during his playing days. I dont recall his players or opposing coaches ever questioning his strategy the way they have for Stan.


Look at Thibs todays, thats what the JVG school of coaching (+Morey's genius work) can do for a coach as cerebral as Thibs.

D-Leethal
06-02-2013, 08:53 PM
His offense is very basic and isolation heavy. He relies on his top guns and puts the ball in their hands and puts the onus on them to produce results. He is a great motivator and will get his teams to defend but I laugh everytime I hear Knicks fans complain about Woodson and than go praise JVG. JVG is a Woodson clone.

king4day
06-02-2013, 10:21 PM
I thought it was a joke when NY first hired him. Next thing you know, they're in the finals and an elite team. I always felt he was better than his brother but it's hard to tell. They might be more similar than some think.

OceanSpray
06-02-2013, 10:42 PM
He was much better than his brother. He may sound silly at times but he's a really great coach.

IndiansFan337
06-02-2013, 11:31 PM
I think it would be hard to claim that after he has been away for so long. He was a very good coach with NYK and Houston during the 90's and 2000's.

c.c.
06-02-2013, 11:43 PM
He was cool when he was in Houston, I would prefer him than Mchale right now.

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 11:47 PM
His offense is very basic and isolation heavy. He relies on his top guns and puts the ball in their hands and puts the onus on them to produce results. He is a great motivator and will get his teams to defend but I laugh everytime I hear Knicks fans complain about Woodson and than go praise JVG. JVG is a Woodson clone.
JVG is kind of like a poor mans Phil Jackson. He doesn't take a bad job or coach bad teams so we will never know how good he truly is. He quit the Knicks after Ewing retired and basically quit in HOU after Yao was injured.

LongWayFromHome
06-03-2013, 02:54 AM
He's a whole hell if a lot better than Del Negro and PJ C so I hope that answers your question lol.

The OP asked:
-What kind of coach is he?
-What makes him great if you think he is?
-Do you think he will still have what it takes to be an elite coach after so much time away?

How did what you said answer his questions?

Chronz
06-03-2013, 03:45 AM
JVG is kind of like a poor mans Phil Jackson. He doesn't take a bad job or coach bad teams so we will never know how good he truly is. He quit the Knicks after Ewing retired and basically quit in HOU after Yao was injured.
He did quit in NY, but it was after like 6 seasons and having some pretty good success (taking an 8th seed to the Finals isnt too shabby).

But Houston? To my knowledge he was simply replaced and had wanted to come back to Houston.

Bruno
06-03-2013, 03:48 AM
ive always been a fan.

waveycrockett
06-03-2013, 04:28 AM
JVG is kind of like a poor mans Phil Jackson. He doesn't take a bad job or coach bad teams so we will never know how good he truly is. He quit the Knicks after Ewing retired and basically quit in HOU after Yao was injured.
He did quit in NY, but it was after like 6 seasons and having some pretty good success (taking an 8th seed to the Finals isnt too shabby).

But Houston? To my knowledge he was simply replaced and had wanted to come back to Houston.

In Hou he battled with management at the end. Basically was asking to get fired/quit.

And taking the 8th seed to the finals in NYK is misleading. Look at that postseason in context. #1 seed Miami and #8 Knicks had played each other previous 2 seasons and split. Same with Pacers/Knicks in ECF We are not talking a big upsets at all. With basically the same rosters. It was a 50 game season so cream did not rise to the top that year. Alot of misleading records that year and JVG took a long time before he finally let Camby off the bench. JVG was notoriously bad at developing and playing young players which was what Camby was at the time. Knicks took off when JVG unleashed him in playoffs

Chronz
06-03-2013, 04:40 AM
In Hou he battled with management at the end. Basically was asking to get fired/quit.
You sure your not confusing him for Adelman? I maintain that he wanted to come back and never quit in Houston. You mentioned something about leaving cuz of Yao but he loved coaching Yao, definitely didn't expect him to stay down with injuries thats for sure.


And taking the 8th seed to the finals in NYK is misleading. Look at that postseason in context. #1 seed Miami and #8 Knicks had played each other previous 2 seasons and split. We are not talking a big upset at all. With basically the same rosters. It was a 50 game season so cream did not rise to the top that year. Alot of misleading records and JVG took a long time before he finally let Camby off the bench. JVG was notoriously bad at developing and playing young players which was what Camby was at the time. Knicks took off when JVG unleashed him in playoffs
Good point about Camby, he was relying on Ewing abit much but thats somewhat a result of their affinity for each other, he loves his stars. Still, I disagree about the 8th seed run being misleading. The NY-MIA rivalry was epic, but I dont see how the Knicks prior success detracts from the accomplishment, if anything it makes JVG look even better. The Knicks were by no means in their league anymore (talent wise anyways). 50 games of being that much more efficient (MIA was top 9 in O and D rating) is a sign of superiority. The teams that struggled the most during the lockout were the fat teams, I dont know who exactly was most out of shape, but its fair to say a team like the Heat (with Riley and Mourning around) weren't the type to slack off physically. They came out the gates and dominated, Mourning had a career year.

KnickaBocka.44
06-03-2013, 12:24 PM
In Hou he battled with management at the end. Basically was asking to get fired/quit.

And taking the 8th seed to the finals in NYK is misleading. Look at that postseason in context. #1 seed Miami and #8 Knicks had played each other previous 2 seasons and split. Same with Pacers/Knicks in ECF We are not talking a big upsets at all. With basically the same rosters. It was a 50 game season so cream did not rise to the top that year. Alot of misleading records that year and JVG took a long time before he finally let Camby off the bench. JVG was notoriously bad at developing and playing young players which was what Camby was at the time. Knicks took off when JVG unleashed him in playoffs

This is very debatable. The idea that Camby was buried on the bench is unfounded. He played 20 minutes per game that season and while it is easy to say that his insertion into the lineup had an impact on their success that postseason, Ewing was still playing through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Larry Johnson was declining steeply at that point and honestly, no one on that team past the first 8 players had any business being on the court at any time by that point in their careers.

The Knicks actually went through pretty major changes before that season also. They lost Starks and Oakley who were huge contributors to the team on the floor and even more-so as a part of their identity. They also lost Chris Mills who was a very good role player off the bench the previous year.

Van Gundy also didn't have much access to young talent while he was on the Knicks outside of Camby so I am not sure why you say he was horrible at developing young talent. You can't really blame him for not starting him over Ewing either.

kenzo400
06-03-2013, 12:26 PM
I kind of like SVG more. I know JVG is a legendary coach but he is too one sided. I really don't think he is versatile enough to work with any roster.

blahblahyoutoo
06-03-2013, 01:28 PM
not a very good coach IMO.
i do find myself agreeing with him more often than not over his commentary.

waveycrockett
06-03-2013, 02:30 PM
This is very debatable. The idea that Camby was buried on the bench is unfounded. He played 20 minutes per game that season and while it is easy to say that his insertion into the lineup had an impact on their success that postseason, Ewing was still playing through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Larry Johnson was declining steeply at that point and honestly, no one on that team past the first 8 players had any business being on the court at any time by that point in their careers.

The Knicks actually went through pretty major changes before that season also. They lost Starks and Oakley who were huge contributors to the team on the floor and even more-so as a part of their identity. They also lost Chris Mills who was a very good role player off the bench the previous year.

Van Gundy also didn't have much access to young talent while he was on the Knicks outside of Camby so I am not sure why you say he was horrible at developing young talent. You can't really blame him for not starting him over Ewing either.

JVG developed a reputation for not liking rookies/young players for the way he handled Camby, John Wallace, McCarty and at the end Lavar Postell. I remember one time to spite the media he let Lavar Postell play 40 minutes because they had criticized his development of him. Camby also had recieved a few DNP's from JVG when he was traded after playing 30 mins per game in TOR.

Utd7
06-03-2013, 08:32 PM
I think like a lot of coaches it's dependent upon him having the right players to implement his system. But his record shows he's a pretty good coach. Very knowledgeable about the game too with his commentary.

Cracka2HI!
06-04-2013, 01:00 AM
The OP asked:
-What kind of coach is he?
-What makes him great if you think he is?
-Do you think he will still have what it takes to be an elite coach after so much time away?

How did what you said answer his questions?

LOL! That's exactly what I thought.

Chronz
06-04-2013, 03:33 AM
JVG developed a reputation for not liking rookies/young players for the way he handled Camby, John Wallace, McCarty and at the end Lavar Postell. I remember one time to spite the media he let Lavar Postell play 40 minutes because they had criticized his development of him. Camby also had recieved a few DNP's from JVG when he was traded after playing 30 mins per game in TOR.

He sorta did it with Stromile Swift too, except it proved to be the right call. So as a tactician, I think hes made some progress since his first stint in NY. When he first got to Houston, he made giving it to Yao a priority, Yao has credited JVG among a few others for his development as a scorer. Pounding the mentality into him. Then when Tmac showed up, he adapted to an initially failed attempt to force feed Yao, eventually he allowed Tmac to take reign of the offense. He was able to tell that Yao was not yet ready for the heavy burden and refit the offense around a perimeter attack with a secondary post play and the team took off.

Hes got some adaptability to him thats for sure.

FOBolous
06-04-2013, 10:05 AM
let's just say....Thibs learned everything he knows from JVG. He was JVG's assistant for the longest time and JVG was his mentor.