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View Full Version : I didn't realize Bosh and Wade were playing this bad.



IKnowHoops
06-02-2013, 06:30 PM
Wade is averaging 12 points on 32 percent shooting in his last three games, Bosh just 6.3 points on 24 percent shooting in that same span.

kswissdaf
06-02-2013, 06:35 PM
wow cool

ManRam
06-02-2013, 06:38 PM
have you been under a rock :laugh:

archdevil84
06-02-2013, 06:44 PM
more threads

Minimal
06-02-2013, 06:45 PM
Bosh just went fully Jermaine O'Neal in this series

LayBraun
06-02-2013, 06:45 PM
And OP of the hero ball thread was telling people to "stop ignoring the stats"


uhhhhhhhhhhhhh were you talking to yourself bud?

IKnowHoops
06-02-2013, 07:07 PM
have you been under a rock :laugh:

I've watched every game, and even read a post by you saying you would take Bosh and Wade over George Hill and Hibbert right now. I knew by watching the games they were playing bad, but both are scoring less than I thought they were and there shooting percentages are surprisingly bad. As far as you saying what you did, and you not being under a rock this whole time. I wouldn't of expected you to say something so silly.

LongIslandIcedZ
06-02-2013, 07:16 PM
Their playing pretty bad, but I dont think the system is really doing them justice. Lebron dominates the ball, as he should. He gets guys open jump shots, really really well. I think if we saw Lebron get hurt or ejected tomorrow and Wade took over as the primary ball handler, we'd see him play much better. Lebron has a tendency to turn a lot of players into jumpshooters. It isnt a bad thing, it just is what it is. In the playoffs it seems Bosh only takes long jumpers, once again, as a result of Lebron being able to do whatever he wants with the ball. Bosh was a damn good player down low before the big 3. Miami isn't currently doing a great job at playing to Wade and Bosh's strengths. If your the Heat, would you sacrifice some of Lebron's game to get Wade and Bosh going?

Hawkeye15
06-02-2013, 07:18 PM
but, but, but, but, LeBron has a superteam, and if he doesn't win it all, he can't be mentioned with the greatest....


Wade has sucked all playoffs, Bosh is playing like a scared little girl against Hibbert, and Spo has suddenly morphed into Mike Brown, where the only thing he knows how to do is give the ball to Bron out top and pray good things happen.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 07:20 PM
I've watched every game, and even read a post by you saying you would take Bosh and Wade over George Hill and Hibbert right now. I knew by watching the games they were playing bad, but both are scoring less than I thought they were and there shooting percentages are surprisingly bad. As far as you saying what you did, and you not being under a rock this whole time. I wouldn't of expected you to say something so silly.

i think you misunderstood whatever i was saying. link?

if you're referencing what i think you are, my point is that wade and bosh proved over the season that they are superior players. we know what they are. what they are doing right now is not who they are. that's why we can't say "oh, he has wade and bosh" because "wade" and "bosh" in this series doesn't mean what we associate it to mean.

this series of course i'd take hibbert over them. he's been easily the second most-impacting player this series...arguably even more than lebron because of how miami is reacting to him.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 07:27 PM
wade is injured and is trying his hardest to play through it, he doesn't elevate well anymore and with hibbert in the middle its becoming difficult for him to find driving lanes, bosh on the other hand has no excuses.. i heard he was partying at a Indiana club the night before.

b@llhog24
06-02-2013, 07:27 PM
Their playing pretty bad, but I dont think the system is really doing them justice. Lebron dominates the ball, as he should. He gets guys open jump shots, really really well. I think if we saw Lebron get hurt or ejected tomorrow and Wade took over as the primary ball handler, we'd see him play much better. Lebron has a tendency to turn a lot of players into jumpshooters. It isnt a bad thing, it just is what it is. In the playoffs it seems Bosh only takes long jumpers, once again, as a result of Lebron being able to do whatever he wants with the ball. Bosh was a damn good player down low before the big 3. Miami isn't currently doing a great job at playing to Wade and Bosh's strengths. If your the Heat, would you sacrifice some of Lebron's game to get Wade and Bosh going?

Wade's injured and Hibbert is making Bosh his *****.

b@llhog24
06-02-2013, 07:28 PM
Bosh just went fully Jermaine O'Neal in this series

Lol I remember that.

ThunderousDemon
06-02-2013, 07:30 PM
He left Cleveland because he needed help to win a championship.

He has a team with the best record in the league and who also went on the second longest win streak in NBA history.

If that isn't a super-team then what the **** is one?

IKnowHoops
06-02-2013, 07:30 PM
Their playing pretty bad, but I dont think the system is really doing them justice. Lebron dominates the ball, as he should. He gets guys open jump shots, really really well. I think if we saw Lebron get hurt or ejected tomorrow and Wade took over as the primary ball handler, we'd see him play much better. Lebron has a tendency to turn a lot of players into jumpshooters. It isnt a bad thing, it just is what it is. In the playoffs it seems Bosh only takes long jumpers, once again, as a result of Lebron being able to do whatever he wants with the ball. Bosh was a damn good player down low before the big 3. Miami isn't currently doing a great job at playing to Wade and Bosh's strengths. If your the Heat, would you sacrifice some of Lebron's game to get Wade and Bosh going?

I disagree, Wade and Bosh have been more efficient since teaming up with Lebron. And still the only time D wade gets to the hole is when he cuts to the basket and Lebron hits him. Ive seen D Wade get the ball at the top of the key so many times this series and just not be able to do anything with it. Dribble left, dribble right, pickup dribble, pivot right, pivot left, pass it to someone who is further away from the basket, then the play starts over. And every time bosh goes to the whole he's getting his weak layup attempt pint. Or his jumper, which is the best part of his game is just off. Lebron makes Wade and Bosh better. They are just playing like trash man.

Hawkeye15
06-02-2013, 07:31 PM
He left Cleveland because he needed help to win a championship.

He has a team with the best record in the league and who also went on the second longest win streak in NBA history.

If that isn't a super-team then what the **** is one?

didn't his Cleveland roster have the best record? How does that mean anything, when those "awesome" players are playing hurt and sucking, or simply not showing up in Bosh? LeBron isn't a puppeteer. He can't make them play better.

IKnowHoops
06-02-2013, 07:33 PM
He left Cleveland because he needed help to win a championship.

He has a team with the best record in the league and who also went on the second longest win streak in NBA history.

If that isn't a super-team then what the **** is one?

Wade is averaging 12 points on 32 percent shooting in his last three games, Bosh just 6.3 points on 24 percent shooting in that same span.

What is so super about this?

ManRam
06-02-2013, 07:33 PM
went looking at how well a team or players do in any given POST SEASON you should probably just look at how good they were that POST SEASON.

who cares how good these guys were in the regular season. who cares how good bron's teams did in the regular season. all that matters is how well they play in the playoffs.

again, "regular season Wade" and "playoffs Wade" are not interchangeable things at all. pretending like they are the same thing is a joke.

ThunderousDemon
06-02-2013, 07:36 PM
I guess he needs to pack up and leave then if his team is going to digress when he needs them the most.

IKnowHoops
06-02-2013, 07:41 PM
This is what D Wade is thinking about on how to approach game 7.

"This time, when I wear my capris should I kill em with the black socks pulled up or do I go no socks on em again but this time wear my white Luis boat shoes just to keep it fresh?"

bucketss
06-02-2013, 07:41 PM
I guess he needs to pack up and leave then if his team is going to digress when he needs them the most.

isn't that what you wanted? so he could join the lakers 8)

ThunderousDemon
06-02-2013, 07:43 PM
isn't that what you wanted? so he could join the lakers 8)

Yes, who wouldn't want the best player to play for their team.

ThunderousDemon
06-02-2013, 07:44 PM
Things aren't going to get any better for the Heat next season.

zn23
06-02-2013, 07:44 PM
He left Cleveland because he needed help to win a championship.

He has a team with the best record in the league and who also went on the second longest win streak in NBA history.

If that isn't a super-team then what the **** is one?

Yes because Wade and Bosh played well in the regular season. Wade's PER went from 24.0 to 17.0 in the playoffs, he's been a disaster. He's been injured of course, but his basketball IQ has also decreased for some reason.

It's Cleveland all over again. Cleveland was a team that was built for regular season success, not post season.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 07:45 PM
btw i think things will be normal again if they get by the pacers, indiana for some reason turned bosh soft(even for his standards) miami also can't run their normal offense they made battier completely useless.

b@llhog24
06-02-2013, 07:46 PM
didn't his Cleveland roster have the best record? How does that mean anything, when those "awesome" players are playing hurt and sucking, or simply not showing up in Bosh? LeBron isn't a puppeteer. He can't make them play better.


went looking at how well a team or players do in any given POST SEASON you should probably just look at how good they were that POST SEASON.

who cares how good these guys were in the regular season. who cares how good bron's teams did in the regular season. all that matters is how well they play in the playoffs.

again, "regular season Wade" and "playoffs Wade" are not interchangeable things at all. pretending like they are the same thing is a joke.

:nod:

Sandman
06-02-2013, 07:47 PM
Omg omg omg wade is having a terrible vs the pacers he must be spending 1500 a week on coke and chillin with rhianna in south beach .

ThunderousDemon
06-02-2013, 07:57 PM
I hope they do lose though.

I want Lebron to come to the Lakers.

Maybe Jeanie Buss and Phil Jackson can entice Lebron to come to LA.

SportsFanatic10
06-02-2013, 08:00 PM
He left Cleveland because he needed help to win a championship.

He has a team with the best record in the league and who also went on the second longest win streak in NBA history.

If that isn't a super-team then what the **** is one?

in all fairness wade's injury is alot like okc losing westbrook. it changes everything, but the fact that wade's is of a different nature and he is able to attempt to play through it(but not very well at all) and actually be on the court makes things look worse for lebron. bosh is just in a funk at a very bad time(yes the matchup is terrible for him as well) and so are allen and battier making the heat a completely different team then they were entering the playoffs as a big time force.

ThunderousDemon
06-02-2013, 08:02 PM
in all fairness wade's injury is alot like okc losing westbrook. it changes everything, but the fact that wade's is of a different nature and he is able to attempt to play through it(but not very well at all) and actually be on the court makes things look worse for lebron. bosh is just in a funk at a very bad time(yes the matchup is terrible for him as well) and so are allen and battier making the heat a completely different team then they were entering the playoffs as a big time force.

It isn't going to get any easier for the Heat though, the Spurs are awaiting them if they win and they're hungry for a another championship.

SportsFanatic10
06-02-2013, 08:04 PM
It isn't going to get any easier for the Heat though, the Spurs are awaiting them if they win and they're hungry for a another championship.

oh i know, i certainly have my doubts about them having enough to beat the spurs if they win tomorrow. the heat normally can survive bosh's poor games that happen quite often and even the 3pt shooters going cold as long as wade is healthy enough to go ham with lebron. but without that, it's alot to overcome right now. like i said, wade's injury changes everything.

I Rock Shaqs
06-02-2013, 08:07 PM
6.3 points though?!!? Damn Bosh, cuz we know you not rebounding either!

Enemey
06-02-2013, 08:22 PM
Lets give the Pacers not some credit but all credit. Why is it that when wade plays IND he is injured? Wasn't he playing bad against them last year too in the playoffs? And this years regular season and post season? People were saying how if Bosh was healthy last year in the playoffs vs INDY it would've been a sweep but now he's playing and is hurting the team then anything else.

Hawkeye15
06-02-2013, 08:25 PM
Lets give the Pacers not some credit but all credit. Why is it that when wade plays IND he is injured? Wasn't he playing bad against them last year too in the playoffs? And this years regular season and post season? People were saying how if Bosh was healthy last year in the playoffs vs INDY it would've been a sweep but now he's playing and is hurting the team then anything else.

Wade has been pretty meh the entire playoffs dude. He is actually scoring more against the Pacers than he was against either previous opponent. Its obvious his knee is limiting him to being an average SG right now. Bosh has no excuses, he is being a huge vag, and just not asserting himself at all.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 08:26 PM
And the blame game begins.

Everybody is accountable except for Lebron right. :rolleyes:

amos1er
06-02-2013, 08:27 PM
Wade has been pretty meh the entire playoffs dude. He is actually scoring more against the Pacers than he was against either previous opponent. Its obvious his knee is limiting him to being an average SG right now. Bosh has no excuses, he is being a huge vag, and just not asserting himself at all.

:laugh:

So now Wade is just average. This is priceless.

SportsFanatic10
06-02-2013, 08:29 PM
Lets give the Pacers not some credit but all credit. Why is it that when wade plays IND he is injured? Wasn't he playing bad against them last year too in the playoffs? And this years regular season and post season? People were saying how if Bosh was healthy last year in the playoffs vs INDY it would've been a sweep but now he's playing and is hurting the team then anything else.

last year lebron and wade killed indy, combining to score 65 pts/game over the last 3 games of the series. wade had 41 in game 6. indy is good, but they aren't facing the same duel threat they had to last year.

SportsFanatic10
06-02-2013, 08:30 PM
:laugh:

So now Wade is just average. This is priceless.

you forgot to highlight the full sentence lol your tolling is priceless.

Kashmir13579
06-02-2013, 08:31 PM
And the blame game begins.

Everybody is accountable except for Lebron right. :rolleyes:

lmfao Lebron has been playing out of his mind for the most part

You don't have an agenda or anything..

Enemey
06-02-2013, 08:32 PM
Wade has been pretty meh the entire playoffs dude. He is actually scoring more against the Pacers than he was against either previous opponent. Its obvious his knee is limiting him to being an average SG right now. Bosh has no excuses, he is being a huge vag, and just not asserting himself at all.

And if the Heat advance to the finals and Wade plays great against the spurs all of a sudden he is healthy right? People think Heat will struggle against the spurs but watch Bosh comes back in that series. Bosh and Wade have been takin out of their game.

Hawkeye15
06-02-2013, 08:34 PM
:laugh:

So now Wade is just average. This is priceless.

I typically blow right by your posts, but I thought I would humor the board from your insignificant attempts

13.6-5-4.5 on a 49% true shooting percentage and PER of 17.

Pretty ****ing average dude.

Hawkeye15
06-02-2013, 08:35 PM
And if the Heat advance to the finals and Wade plays great against the spurs all of a sudden he is healthy right? People think Heat will struggle against the spurs but watch Bosh comes back in that series. Bosh and Wade have been takin out of their game.

If that happens, the Bucks, Bulls, and Pacers are simply the better defense....

Expect Wade and Bosh to continue to struggle. If they get by the Pacers, the Spurs do go small now and then, which might help Bosh, but Wade just looks like a shell of himself. He can't get into the paint to save his life, and we all know he has never been much of a shooter.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 08:41 PM
And the blame game begins.

Everybody is accountable except for Lebron right. :rolleyes:

does kobe deserve any blame for the lakers 2013 season?

Enemey
06-02-2013, 08:47 PM
If that happens, the Bucks, Bulls, and Pacers are simply the better defense....

Expect Wade and Bosh to continue to struggle. If they get by the Pacers, the Spurs do go small now and then, which might help Bosh, but Wade just looks like a shell of himself. He can't get into the paint to save his life, and we all know he has never been much of a shooter.

I agree with this that Bosh and Wade will continue to struggle against the Pacers but not against the spurs. Hibbert is always around the paint making life difficult for Wade.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 08:49 PM
I typically blow right by your posts, but I thought I would humor the board from your insignificant attempts

13.6-5-4.5 on a 49% true shooting percentage and PER of 17.

Pretty ****ing average dude.

What about his stellar defense that many Kobe bashers have claimed him to have over the years. lol

According to Hollinger, a per of 17 puts Wade right around what he considers a "solid second option". Which is what his role is to Lebron right?


Hollinger has set up PER so that the league average, every season, is 15.00, which produces sort of a handy reference guide:

A Year For the Ages: 35.0
Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0
Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5
Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0
Bona fide All-Star: 22.5
Borderline All-Star: 20.0
Solid 2nd option: 18.0
3rd Banana: 16.5
Pretty good player: 15.0
In the rotation: 13.0
Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
Definitely renting: 9.0
The Next Stop: DLeague 5.0

Love how when Wade is under performing, it's due to his knee. Yet when someone on Kobe's team under performs, it's because he is a ballhog. Also love how Kobe is never given a pass for playing injured, yet Wade is.

#hypocrisy

D-Leethal
06-02-2013, 08:50 PM
I don't think anyone can really put all that much blame on LeBron. He done everything you could ask out of a human being. His teammates are letting him down and the position-less basketball is getting exposed.

Pacerlive
06-02-2013, 09:14 PM
I don't think anyone can really put all that much blame on LeBron. He done everything you could ask out of a human being. His teammates are letting him down and the position-less basketball is getting exposed.

They built this team around Lebron. The three point shooting and small ball to enhance fast breaks and drives to the lane. Sorry but I don't feel bad for him because like Jordan (the gm) he has surrounded himself with friends which can't always be relied upon.

Make no mistake the big 3 built this not Riley. The small ball and the over the hill players have come back to haunt them.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:20 PM
does kobe deserve any blame for the lakers 2013 season?

Of course. He is on the team isn't he. Every teammate is accountable in some way. Difference between me and your Lebronite cohorts is that I don't try to pretend that Kobe is infallible.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 09:20 PM
And the blame game begins.

Everybody is accountable except for Lebron right. :rolleyes:

Everyone is accountable to varying degrees. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous. LeBron is playing very good basketball, better than everyone else in the playoffs. Could he be better? I think so. So he gets a little blame. Wade and Bosh have not played up to their normal standards. Of course any rational person assigning "blame" would give more of it to those who are underachieving.

Blame usually should be spread more widely than people are willing to do so, but you're going about it the wrong way as well.


:laugh:

So now Wade is just average. This is priceless.

Wade isn't "just average", but he certainly has been playing like it this series, has he not. In the short term, and over the course of time that matters right now, he has been "just average". You can't seriously suggest otherwise.

"Playoff Wade" is not the same as "Normal Wade". The same for Bosh. All that matters in a playoff series is how people play. Production. Those two aren't producing.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:21 PM
I don't think anyone can really put all that much blame on LeBron. He done everything you could ask out of a human being. His teammates are letting him down and the position-less basketball is getting exposed.

:rolleyes:

ManRam
06-02-2013, 09:24 PM
Of course. He is on the team isn't he. Every teammate is accountable in some way. Difference between me and your Lebronite cohorts is that I don't try to pretend that Kobe is infallible.

based on the 6 games so far, give a percentage of blame as to why this is going 7 to the following: wade, bosh, lebron, spoelstra, and "the supporting cast". (note, i'm aware i'm asking you to disregard crediting the pacers)

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:24 PM
Everyone is accountable to varying degrees. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous. LeBron is playing very good basketball, better than everyone else in the playoffs. Could he be better? I think so. So he gets a little blame. Wade and Bosh have not played up to their normal standards. Of course any rational person assigning "blame" would give more of it to those who are underachieving.

Blame usually should be spread more widely than people are willing to do so, but you're going about it the wrong way as well.



Wade isn't "just average", but he certainly has been playing like it this series, has he not. In the short term, and over the course of time that matters right now, he has been "just average". You can't seriously suggest otherwise.

"Playoff Wade" is not the same as "Normal Wade". The same for Bosh. All that matters in a playoff series is how people play. Production. Those two aren't producing.

How come when Kobe's teammates are under achieving it's because he is hogging the ball and not getting them involved. Yet when Lebron's teammates under achieve, it's their fault and not Lebron's.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 09:29 PM
How come when Kobe's teammates are under achieving it's because he is hogging the ball and not getting them involved. Yet when Lebron's teammates under achieve, it's their fault and not Lebron's.

I think it would be foolish to blame it all on "Kobe hogging".

Do you have a specific series in mind?

bucketss
06-02-2013, 09:30 PM
Of course. He is on the team isn't he. Every teammate is accountable in some way. Difference between me and your Lebronite cohorts is that I don't try to pretend that Kobe is infallible.

somewhat remember you saying awhile back kobe doesn't deserve any blame and that he carried the team to the playoffs by himself.

Hawkeye15
06-02-2013, 09:33 PM
I think it would be foolish to blame it all on "Kobe hogging".

Do you have a specific series in mind?

he never has anything specific in mind, outside of his agenda. Why ask?

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:38 PM
based on the 6 games so far, give a percentage of blame as to why this is going 7 to the following: wade, bosh, lebron, spoelstra, and "the supporting cast". (note, i'm aware i'm asking you to disregard crediting the pacers)

I would say the following...

25% Spoelstra

25% Bosh

20% Wade

15% Supporting cast

15% Lebron

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:39 PM
somewhat remember you saying awhile back kobe doesn't deserve any blame and that he carried the team to the playoffs by himself.

Really???

That sounds like a flat out lie to me.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 09:43 PM
Really???

That sounds like a flat out lie to me.

if i found something like that will you leave this forum?

LongIslandIcedZ
06-02-2013, 09:43 PM
I disagree, Wade and Bosh have been more efficient since teaming up with Lebron. And still the only time D wade gets to the hole is when he cuts to the basket and Lebron hits him. Ive seen D Wade get the ball at the top of the key so many times this series and just not be able to do anything with it. Dribble left, dribble right, pickup dribble, pivot right, pivot left, pass it to someone who is further away from the basket, then the play starts over. And every time bosh goes to the whole he's getting his weak layup attempt pint. Or his jumper, which is the best part of his game is just off. Lebron makes Wade and Bosh better. They are just playing like trash man.

I acknowledged that they are playing pretty terribly, I'm just saying I think there is a little bit more to it than they both decided to start sucking *** at the same time.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 09:44 PM
I would say the following...

25% Spoelstra

25% Bosh

20% Wade

15% Supporting cast

15% Lebron

subtract 10% from lebron and divide it amongst bosh and supporting cast.

Enemey
06-02-2013, 09:47 PM
based on the 6 games so far, give a percentage of blame as to why this is going 7 to the following: wade, bosh, lebron, spoelstra, and "the supporting cast". (note, i'm aware i'm asking you to disregard crediting the pacers)

I blame the coach, he is relying on Lebron James to do everything, score, defense and make plays for his teammates instead of putting Bosh down low, he is making Bosh into a jump shooter. The pacers are also chasing the supporting cast off the 3 point line esp Ray Allen

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:49 PM
if i found something like that will you leave this forum?

No, but I would give you props.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:51 PM
subtract 10% from lebron and divide it amongst bosh and supporting cast.

lol. Birdman and Haslem are having a great series. Isn't Birdman like 40/40 or something. Only Allen is really underachieving. I'd maybe consider taking 2% off Lebron and dividing it amongst only Bosh.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 09:52 PM
I would say the following...

25% Spoelstra

25% Bosh

20% Wade

15% Supporting cast

15% Lebron

so lebron is last on your "to-blame" list. so pardon people for not mentioning him right away when assessing blame. ;)

i just got done with arguing about how i don't think lebron was to blame in 2009 when we beat him. if asked, i would say that he of course deserves SOME blame. the thing is, it's just so much less than literally every one else on that team. dude when NOVA, and it wasn't good enough.

but i don't think there has ever been a time where a star player has literally no blood on their hands. it's just sometimes it's insignificant when compared to what else when wrong, like this series.

lebron is producing only slightly less this series than he did in the regular season. he's shooting 52% which is down from and absurd 56.5%, as expected. he's averaging 29-7-6 this series as compared to 28-7-7. he's playing like we should expect him to play. considering it's the league's best defense, i think that's OK.

wade is averaging 15-5-4 on 44% shooting. that's down big time from 21-5-5 on 52% shooting. bosh is at 11-4-1 this series on 41% shooting compared to 17-7-2 on 54% shooting.

allen is shooting 29% from three, and battier 13%...and now is basically a bench warmer because of it.


hard for me to understand why you're getting upset when people aren't focusing on lebron when they're talking about why this series is lost. he's doing what he normally does, and no one else really is (chalmers, haslem and birdman have had their moments, but have also all had completely off nights as well). you can't even really play the "he's not clutch" card either, because his clutch play won them games 1 and 5.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 09:53 PM
I think it would be foolish to blame it all on "Kobe hogging".

Do you have a specific series in mind?

No, I'm just remembering years of Kobe haters spewing their nonsense. I'm sure that there was a Kobe hater for every series honestly. This place is crawling with them. There is even a guy with the user name ballhog24. I mean come on, the hate for Kobe is ridiculous.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 09:57 PM
lol. Birdman and Haslem are having a great series. Isn't Birdman like 40/40 or something. Only Allen is really underachieving. I'd maybe consider taking 2% off Lebron and dividing it amongst only Bosh.

remember shane battier was suppose to be the best role player in the league.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 09:57 PM
I blame the coach, he is relying on Lebron James to do everything, score, defense and make plays for his teammates instead of putting Bosh down low, he is making Bosh into a jump shooter. The pacers are also chasing the supporting cast off the 3 point line esp Ray Allen

is he though? go back and watch the early parts of the last 3 games. they're doing everything they can early on to get other guys going. it just isn't working. and a certain point you have to put the ball in the best player in the world's hands.

you do know why they have bosh out on the perimeter, right? it's to help get hibbert out of the paint and hopefully open up the lanes. doing that is more important than trying to post bosh up down low. though, it isn't working terribly well. but they have no choice. they make a killing because they can get to the rim...they have to do everything they can to open up the lanes as much as possible.


the pacers are chasing them off the line, which is one of the 3 things i said they'd do, and why i thought it would go 7. but they still desperately have to try to open up the middle as much as possible. even if they go down trying.


heat in 6 or 7. i went with 7 to be bold.

indy's got the size. they play amazing defense and they play hard. i think they can run the heat role players off the 3 point line. when they aren't making threes, the heat are beatable, especially if wade isn't playing like a star.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 09:59 PM
No, I'm just remembering years of Kobe haters spewing their nonsense. I'm sure that there was a Kobe hater for every series honestly. This place is crawling with them. There is even a guy with the user name ballhog24. I mean come on, the hate for Kobe is ridiculous.

well yeah, the kobe-haters that bash him as incessantly as you do lebron tend to drop logic at the door when entering into an argument. no reason to worry about them; they have their minds made up. they look for things to support their emotionally-charged opinions, and ignore all the other facts.

you do realize that everything you accuse "kobe haters" of doing you could have accused "lebron haters" of a few years ago? right? you get why people throw a lot of "pot, meet kettle" stuff you, right?

;)

Chrisstyles
06-02-2013, 10:12 PM
Their playing pretty bad, but I dont think the system is really doing them justice. Lebron dominates the ball, as he should. He gets guys open jump shots, really really well. I think if we saw Lebron get hurt or ejected tomorrow and Wade took over as the primary ball handler, we'd see him play much better. Lebron has a tendency to turn a lot of players into jumpshooters. It isnt a bad thing, it just is what it is. In the playoffs it seems Bosh only takes long jumpers, once again, as a result of Lebron being able to do whatever he wants with the ball. Bosh was a damn good player down low before the big 3. Miami isn't currently doing a great job at playing to Wade and Bosh's strengths. If your the Heat, would you sacrifice some of Lebron's game to get Wade and Bosh going?

You are absolutely correct. Lebron has good teammates that don't always need him to produce everything. For example Mike Miller has turned into Steve Novak when he used to get a lot of rebounds and assists etc. I could go on and on about Heat players who are losing their abilities because of Lebron's dominance. (Not a knock on Lebron).
The Pacers are out coaching the Heat. Vogel is doing the old Russell and Auerbach Celtic trick against Chamberlain. Their letting Lebron score and get all his stats by playing him 1 on 1 on George and not letting his teammates get open. This limits his teammates from getting into the flow of the game and they struggle because of it.
This also allows Lebron to not be able to control the game and hes shooting and passing when the Pacers want him to shoot and pass.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 10:15 PM
so lebron is last on your "to-blame" list. so pardon people for not mentioning him right away when assessing blame. ;)

No I just don't pardon them for acting like he is not to blame at all. I believe I used the words infallible earlier.


i just got done with arguing about how i don't think lebron was to blame in 2009 when we beat him. if asked, i would say that he of course deserves SOME blame. the thing is, it's just so much less than literally every one else on that team. dude when NOVA, and it wasn't good enough.

He did a horrible job on his defensive assignment Rafer Alston who went off and was the difference maker in game 4. He could have chosen a more difficult defensive assignment, but in order to boast stellar offensive stats, he chose Rafer over Turk or Rashard. Leaving them to do their damage and on top of that, he let Rafer basically be the difference maker in a close game 4. Just because his offensive stats were outstanding, doesn't mean we should ignore his defensive ****ups which he sacrificed in order to put up those monster numbers in the first place.


but i don't think there has ever been a time where a star player has literally no blood on their hands. it's just sometimes it's insignificant when compared to what else when wrong, like this series.

Not saying that Lebron is ****ing up or underachieving at all. But when you are the top dog, a lot is expected of you and some might suggest that he should be getting more out of his teammates or that he could be doing better than just good. When you are the main guy, in theory, you should be the most accountable. Every other superstar is, why is Lebron always the guy who seems to avoid criticism. Even when he flops, the announcers or media doesn't ever make mention of it. They just praise him and shield him from any sort of criticism what so ever. Thats what really annoys me. It's this "Golden Boy" perception he has and the fact that the media has been over hyping him since day one that when he does make a mistake, they feel like they have to defend their "chosen one" because of all the earlier projections they made. lets not even get into the amount of endorsements and corporate sponsorship that goes into this overrhype in the name of profits.


lebron is producing only slightly less this series than he did in the regular season. he's shooting 52% which is down from and absurd 56.5%, as expected. he's averaging 29-7-6 this series as compared to 28-7-7. he's playing like we should expect him to play. considering it's the league's best defense, i think that's OK.

So now their the leagues best defense?

Aren't the truly great ones supposed to raise their game. Couldn't we fault Lebron for that alone. I know that many others have taken criticism for that...why not Lebron. Again, when you are the top dog, you should be the most accountable.


wade is averaging 15-5-4 on 44% shooting. that's down big time from 21-5-5 on 52% shooting. bosh is at 11-4-1 this series on 41% shooting compared to 17-7-2 on 54% shooting.

I agree that Bosh is playing like "Bosh Spice". He has been one of the biggest let downs. Couldn't Lebron as the "Great Leader" you all make him out to be motivate him to step up more? Just sayin. I remember many times when Kobe had a crappy team back in the mid 2000's, people saying that Kobe was a bad leader and motivator and that he should be getting more out of his teammates even though they were D-Leauge caliber except for Lamar Odom. Perhaps Lebron isn't using Wade effectively enough. As the leader of the team, it's on him to figure out how to get the most out of his top 5 wingman.


allen is shooting 29% from three, and battier 13%...and now is basically a bench warmer because of it.

Isn't Birdman having a career playoffs? What about Haslem? I figured them in to Allen and Battier's crappy shooting when I attributed 15% to supporting cast.


hard for me to understand why you're getting upset when people aren't focusing on lebron when they're talking about why this series is lost. he's doing what he normally does, and no one else really is (chalmers, haslem and birdman have had their moments, but have also all had completely off nights as well). you can't even really play the "he's not clutch" card either, because his clutch play won them games 1 and 5.

If he really was the god certain people make him out to be, he should be doing more...especially in the ECF. Why is it people can overrate him and compare him to Jordan, then when his team struggles, doing what is expected is all of the sudden enough. It wouldn't be for Jordan...or even Kobe for that matter. Thats all I'm saying.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 10:17 PM
well yeah, the kobe-haters that bash him as incessantly as you do lebron tend to drop logic at the door when entering into an argument. no reason to worry about them; they have their minds made up. they look for things to support their emotionally-charged opinions, and ignore all the other facts.

you do realize that everything you accuse "kobe haters" of doing you could have accused "lebron haters" of a few years ago? right? you get why people throw a lot of "pot, meet kettle" stuff you, right?

;)

Thats one way to look at it. Another is that pay back is a *****.

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-02-2013, 10:19 PM
but, but, but, but, LeBron has a superteam, and if he doesn't win it all, he can't be mentioned with the greatest....


Wade has sucked all playoffs, Bosh is playing like a scared little girl against Hibbert, and Spo has suddenly morphed into Mike Brown, where the only thing he knows how to do is give the ball to Bron out top and pray good things happen.

Stop making excuses for lebron his team is the most stacked in the league now because they are playing bad they suck? Lol I bet if it was Kobe you would blame it all on him or say his team is really stacked ha!

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-02-2013, 10:22 PM
Yes because Wade and Bosh played well in the regular season. Wade's PER went from 24.0 to 17.0 in the playoffs, he's been a disaster. He's been injured of course, but his basketball IQ has also decreased for some reason.

It's Cleveland all over again. Cleveland was a team that was built for regular season success, not post season.

Love it when people make up excuses to hype up lebron even more haha losers

bucketss
06-02-2013, 10:31 PM
Stop making excuses for lebron his team is the most stacked in the league now because they are playing bad they suck? Lol I bet if it was Kobe you would blame it all on him or say his team is really stacked ha!

usually most stacked teams don't have multiple key players playing like scrubs, did robert parish,mchale ever do this?

Hawkeye15
06-02-2013, 10:32 PM
Stop making excuses for lebron his team is the most stacked in the league now because they are playing bad they suck? Lol I bet if it was Kobe you would blame it all on him or say his team is really stacked ha!

where did I say they suck? I said his two "superstars" have insanely underperformed in these playoffs. Please, by all means, prove me wrong in that sentiment.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 10:35 PM
where did I say they suck? I said his two "superstars" have insanely underperformed in these playoffs. Please, by all means, prove me wrong in that sentiment.

ironically he will probably start making excuses why they are so bad(bosh avg 3 boards a game), wouldn't be surprised if he blamed lebron for them being so bad.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 10:37 PM
ironically he will probably start making excuses why they are so bad(bosh avg 3 boards a game), wouldn't be surprised if he blamed lebron for them being so bad.

Why wouldn't I. For years you all blamed Kobe for his teammates being bad by saying he was a horrible leader and a ball hog. I could easily argue the same for Lebron. Only he is more of a stat hog than a ball hog.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 10:38 PM
usually most stacked teams don't have multiple key players playing like scrubs, did robert parish,mchale ever do this?

Perhaps Larry Bird was a better leader.

OceanSpray
06-02-2013, 10:41 PM
No 2 superstars have been a bigger disappointment in the history of the NBA than Wade/Bosh. Both are outright atrocious. They should never get a contract anywhere the money they get.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 10:44 PM
No 2 superstars have been a bigger disappointment in the history of the NBA than Wade/Bosh. Both are outright atrocious. They should never get a contract anywhere the money they get.

Here is a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about earlier. A Lebronite who is blaming everything on Bosh and Wade. lol This guy make you all look bad. lol Sad thing is, there are a lot out there like him.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 10:47 PM
Why wouldn't I. For years you all blamed Kobe for his teammates being bad by saying he was a horrible leader and a ball hog. I could easily argue the same for Lebron. Only he is more of a stat hog than a ball hog.

no one blames kobe, gasol is the most disrespected two time champ ever, dwight is considered a clown by most of the league. i don't see when kobe got any blame for his teammates short comings, but he and lebron should try to not throw their team mates under the bus.

IKnowHoops
06-02-2013, 10:48 PM
And the blame game begins.

Everybody is accountable except for Lebron right. :rolleyes:

Saying its Lebron's fault right now is like saying it was D-wade's fault they lost to dallas in the finals. You don't think that Wade and or Bosh shoulder as much blame now as Lebron did for Dallas?

bucketss
06-02-2013, 10:49 PM
Perhaps Larry Bird was a better leader.


still doesn't explain how lebron turned the 3rd best shooting in league history into Aaron Afalao without the jumpshot, or are you blaming lebron for wades bad knees?

Chronz
06-02-2013, 10:50 PM
Here is a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about earlier. A Lebronite who is blaming everything on Bosh and Wade. lol This guy make you all look bad. lol Sad thing is, there are a lot out there like him.

Heaven forbid we actually hold the individual for his own play. Wade-Bron-Bosh have dominated before, they didn't suddenly play a completely different brand of basketball where no one has any chemistry, these guys are set in their roles and have struggled.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 10:51 PM
Here is a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about earlier. A Lebronite who is blaming everything on Bosh and Wade. lol This guy make you all look bad. lol Sad thing is, there are a lot out there like him.

minus the last statement, everything he said was the truth.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 10:55 PM
Saying its Lebron's fault right now is like saying it was D-wade's fault they lost to dallas in the finals. You don't think that Wade and or Bosh shoulder as much blame now as Lebron did for Dallas?

Lebron is the leader. Not D-Wade.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 10:56 PM
minus the last statement, everything he said was the truth.

lol

b@llhog24
06-02-2013, 10:58 PM
I typically blow right by your posts, but I thought I would humor the board from your insignificant attempts

13.6-5-4.5 on a 49% true shooting percentage and PER of 17.

Pretty ****ing average dude.

Thought it was only me.

jerellh528
06-02-2013, 11:01 PM
didn't his Cleveland roster have the best record? How does that mean anything, when those "awesome" players are playing hurt and sucking, or simply not showing up in Bosh? LeBron isn't a puppeteer. He can't make them play better.

but, but, but lebron is one of the all time most unselfish players who makes his teammates better.

IKnowHoops
06-02-2013, 11:16 PM
Lebron is the leader. Not D-Wade.

Doesn't matter. Lebron is doing his job as he has done all season. Bosh and Wade get paid like batman's. they are asked to play like robin's. There playing like Lois Lane. Can't believe your arguing this.

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-03-2013, 12:02 AM
usually most stacked teams don't have multiple key players playing like scrubs, did robert parish,mchale ever do this?

So when pau gasol and Andrew Bynum were clapping the bed, were they getting the blame or Kobe? Hypocrites!

bucketss
06-03-2013, 12:10 AM
So when pau gasol and Andrew Bynum were clapping the bed, were they getting the blame or Kobe? Hypocrites!

100% of the blame went to gasol, gasol is the most disrespected champion ever.. people call him soft every second, hell even kobe was caught calling gasol soft(kobe tried to deny it when chris paul told gasol LOOL)

seikou8
06-03-2013, 12:15 AM
kobe kobe KOBE KOBE KOBE KOBE KOBEKOBE KOBE WE GET IT MY GOD CAN TALK ABOUT TEAMS IN PLAYOFFS BITTER LAKER FANS ARE ANNOYING NOT EVERY HAS TO BE A KOBE VS LEBRON THREAD

jam
06-03-2013, 12:19 AM
Bosh is a skinny small forward trying to guard a 7'2" beast. Not happenin.'

Wade has the ego of a #1 option, with brandon roy's knees.

It's almost sad to see the heat crumble like this so quickly. I thought they had another 3 great seasons together as EC frontrunners even AFTER this season. It doesn't look that way now.