PDA

View Full Version : Remember When People Were Talking About How Superior The Heat Were?



Clippersfan86
06-01-2013, 10:59 PM
During that 27 game win streak and even in the last 3 seasons in general people talk about the Heat as if they are head and shoulders above the league, talk about dynasty.... yet why do they get pushed to 7 game series every year? Looks to me like the Pacers are the better all around team TBH. Lettuce Discuss.

Riodagoat
06-01-2013, 11:01 PM
Remember when people were talking about the Clippers getting to the Finals? Discuss.

effen5
06-01-2013, 11:01 PM
Spurs are the best team in the league

ManRam
06-01-2013, 11:03 PM
said all year that the talk about them being the most "stacked" team ever is bogus.

after bosh and wade they never really ever had anything more than most contenders throw out there 4-8/9...and now that bosh and wade are playing like bench warmers...yikes.

dodie53
06-01-2013, 11:03 PM
bosh and wade are crap right now

WITZ
06-01-2013, 11:04 PM
Not 5 ,not 6 , not 7 :laugh: looks like their team peaked after their 1st one. Wade looks like a shell of himself and Bosh averaging 3 rebounds for the series is downright horrible.

Big Zo
06-01-2013, 11:05 PM
The Heat have never won a game 7 before. : /

waveycrockett
06-01-2013, 11:07 PM
The HEAT are just too small and too old. Indiana should have had this series wrapped up already but they play very low IQ basketball.

waveycrockett
06-01-2013, 11:09 PM
Bosh needs to get out of Miami or the HEAT need to trade him. He is such an awful fit for that team.

ManRam
06-01-2013, 11:10 PM
it's been so bad that i think people actually would let lebron off the hook a little...and that says something.

JC_
06-01-2013, 11:10 PM
During that 27 game win streak and even in the last 3 seasons in general people talk about the Heat as if they are head and shoulders above the league, talk about dynasty.... yet why do they get pushed to 7 game series every year? Looks to me like the Pacers are the better all around team TBH. Lettuce Discuss.

Heat have never been the team a lot of people think they are. All those people who complain every night are just making excuses because they are scared and stupid. The Heat as a team have worked the hardest in the league IMO to put themselves in the finals the past 3 years. The reason they win games against teams like the Pacers is because of their mentality to not give up.

DamnGoat
06-01-2013, 11:11 PM
I think they'll still win this series, but get beaten pretty easily by the Spurs.

They've always been pretty overrated anyway IMO and if Wade is slowing down & Bosh plays like this, they won't be the team to beat much longer, if at all.

JordansBulls
06-01-2013, 11:12 PM
said all year that the talk about them being the most "stacked" team ever is bogus.

after bosh and wade they never really ever had anything more than most contenders throw out there 4-8/9...and now that bosh and wade are playing like bench warmers...yikes.

Sorry disagree. Teams get taken to the limit no matter who you are at times. Boston got taken to limit twice in the same playoffs. Lakers in the 80's in the West got taken to limit 3 series. Lakers in 2000 got taken to limit twice to name a few and all to teams clearly inferior.

Hawkeye15
06-01-2013, 11:13 PM
Remember when everyone said LeBron had a superteam, with a top 5 and 15 player?


Yeah, not so much.

JC_
06-01-2013, 11:13 PM
Bosh needs to get out of Miami or the HEAT need to trade him. He is such an awful fit for that team.

lol there are maybe 3 teams in the league that can make Bosh struggle and unfortunately the Heat have played 2 of them this postseason.

kozelkid
06-01-2013, 11:13 PM
I think they'll still win this series, but get beaten pretty easily by the Spurs.

They've always been pretty overrated anyway IMO.

Gotta agree here. There is no way the Heat can get away with Wade struggling this bad against a team with as much firepower as the Spurs. With Indiana it can work cause their offense is weak and a Miami still can is great defensively. But that won't be enough when you got three elite offensive players and and a supporting cast of shooting studs.

waveycrockett
06-01-2013, 11:14 PM
lol there are maybe 3 teams in the league that can make Bosh struggle and unfortunately the Heat have played 2 of them this postseason.

This is hardly the 1st time we've seen Bosh struggle in the playoffs with the HEAT.

ManRam
06-01-2013, 11:14 PM
Sorry disagree. Teams get taken to the limit no matter who you are at times. Boston got taken to limit twice in the same playoffs. Lakers in the 80's in the West got taken to limit 3 series. Lakers in 2000 got taken to limit twice to name a few and all to teams clearly inferior.

you disagree with my comment about how 4-8 the heat aren't really all that better than other teams?

or that wade and bosh have played like bench warmers?

or that they're the most stacked team ever? (because if it's that, i'll point you to a myriad of teams with 6-8 HOFers on it...or 3/5s of the All-NBA 1st team...


or what?

i'm confused. because you said nothing that has anything to do with my post.

b@llhog24
06-01-2013, 11:15 PM
Remember when people were talking about the Clippers getting to the Finals? Discuss.

Lmao. :laugh:

ManRam
06-01-2013, 11:15 PM
I think they'll still win this series, but get beaten pretty easily by the Spurs.

They've always been pretty overrated anyway IMO and if Wade is slowing down & Bosh plays like this, they won't be the team to beat much longer, if at all.

Still think Indy is a much tougher match up. San Antonio has a good defense, but it's not this good. San Antonio has decent size, but it totally pales in comparison to Indy's size and strength.

Not saying the Heat will win, I'm just saying it will be a completely different challenge.

waveycrockett
06-01-2013, 11:16 PM
Gotta agree here. There is no way the Heat can get away with Wade struggling this bad against a team with as much firepower as the Spurs. With Indiana it can work cause their offense is weak and a Miami still can is great defensively. But that won't be enough when you got three elite offensive players and and a supporting cast of shooting studs.

The Spurs defense isn't nearly as good as the Pacers tho. The Pacers have a ton of BIG bodies to throw at LBJ like George, West, Hansbrough, Young. Other than Kawhi Leonard Spurs have nobody. You think LBJ is playing great this series this is nothing. Even more imporant Spurs dont have guys who can rebound like Indy.

SportsFanatic10
06-01-2013, 11:17 PM
wade's injury is what is making them vulnerable right now.

kozelkid
06-01-2013, 11:19 PM
Sorry disagree. Teams get taken to the limit no matter who you are at times. Boston got taken to limit twice in the same playoffs. Lakers in the 80's in the West got taken to limit 3 series. Lakers in 2000 got taken to limit twice to name a few and all to teams clearly inferior.

Perhaps, but the way Miami has been playing is concerning. Frankly, Wade has been trash for the entire postseason and Bosh is playing like a sixth man rather than an elite pf that he is expected to be.

It's one thing if this was simply a bad series for Wade, but the fact that he appears to be playing this bad for the entire postseason makes one wonder if he can step up come finals time. Lebron has done a fantastic job of carrying this team, but there is no way that that will be enough against the Spurs. Point is, if Wade continues to be a no-show, I'd be surprised if the series goes past 5 games. And I've been one who has thought Miami would win it easily this year.

RiceOnTheRun
06-01-2013, 11:20 PM
They are superior. When they show up.

Bosh goes 1-10 and Wade 3-11 or something like that. Let's say Bosh hits 3 more jumpshots and Wade makes a single three. Bam, that's 9 points back in there, that would've kept the game close and the pressure on Indiana.

and that's only with them shooting less than 40%

kozelkid
06-01-2013, 11:22 PM
The Spurs defense isn't nearly as good as the Pacers tho. The Pacers have a ton of BIG bodies to throw at LBJ like George, West, Hansbrough, Young. Other than Kawhi Leonard Spurs have nobody. You think LBJ is playing great this series this is nothing. Even more imporant Spurs dont have guys who can rebound like Indy.

You're underrating the Spurs BIG time here. This isn't the same Spurs as the last few years. Duncan has played like a dpoy candidate, Splitter is no slouch either. And by the way, David West is a terrible defender so I have no idea what you're talking about. I digress.

Unlike the previous few seasons where Spurs were at best an above average defensive team (with a D-rating at around 10-12th in the league), they have been elite this season with a D-rating ranked 3rd in the league. Couple that with an elite offensive team/gameplan who are great at spacing the floor and passing the rock, and you got big problems for Miami's D. This offense should be even more deadly than Dallas's was a few years ago.

smiddy012
06-01-2013, 11:23 PM
Don't count the Heat out until they're out... They are still very capable of dominating game 7 and then the Spurs afterwards.

JordansBulls
06-01-2013, 11:25 PM
Perhaps, but the way Miami has been playing is concerning. Frankly, Wade has been trash for the entire postseason and Bosh is playing like a sixth man rather than an elite pf that he is expected to be.

It's one thing if this was simply a bad series for Wade, but the fact that he appears to be playing this bad for the entire postseason makes one wonder if he can step up come finals time. Lebron has done a fantastic job of carrying this team, but there is no way that that will be enough against the Spurs. Point is, if Wade continues to be a no-show, I'd be surprised if the series goes past 5 games. And I've been one who has thought Miami would win it easily this year.

I agree. But truth be told teams who are the favorite that get taken to the limit is because the 2nd best player and even 3rd best player don't play that well for the series.

kdspurman
06-01-2013, 11:27 PM
You're underrating the Spurs BIG time here. This isn't the same Spurs as the last few years. Duncan has played like a dpoy candidate, Splitter is no slouch either. And West is hardly a defender.

Unlike the previous few seasons where Spurs were at best an above average defensive team (with a D-rating at around 10-12), they have been elite this season with a D-rating at around 3. Couple that with an elite offensive team/gameplan who are great at spacing the floor and passing the rock, and you got big problems for Miami's D. This offense should be even more deadly than Dallas's was a few years ago.

A lot of people have underrated the Spurs on the defensive end this year for whatever reason. Like I keep saying, their starting 5 man unit was ranked the best defensive unit in the league, and they've been the best defensive team in the playoffs. (3rd best in the regular season)

The general theory seems to be "because the Spurs don't play as physical as Indy does" they're not as good defensively. Not taking into consideration they foul the least of any team in the league, and Pop has done a masterful job during this run of making the other team very uncomfortable on the offensive end.

And as you said, they're offense is still very good. They will make Miami's defense work harder than Indy is. Now granted Miami will do the same to them. I just think people are discounting the Spurs defense big time. Last year I could understand, but this year I can only guess people are just basing off of last year.

kozelkid
06-01-2013, 11:28 PM
I agree. But truth be told teams who are the favorite that get taken to the limit is because the 2nd best player and even 3rd best player don't play that well for the series.

Sure, but again, Wade has been **** for the entire postseason. Even worse than last postseason. If this doesn't signify a decline/injury, I don't know what does.

This is not the same as when Wade struggled against the Bulls for a series in the 2011 ECF only to play like a finals MVP in the finals. That's the point. Frankly, it might be too late to change gameplan, but this is a case where Miami really is wasting Bosh's talents by keeping him as merely a floor spacer. Maybe it's drastic, but they need to find to get Bosh more in the paint and the rock more. We've seen Bosh still play like an elite big whenever Wade was out and he was the 2nd option. It just seems that at this point, Bosh would be more productive as the second option than Wade currently is.

Jarvo
06-01-2013, 11:28 PM
Lmaooo! PSD

JordansBulls
06-01-2013, 11:30 PM
Sure, but again, Wade has been **** for the entire postseason. Even worse than last postseason. If this doesn't signify a decline/injury, I don't know what does.

This is not the same as when Wade struggled against the Bulls for a series in the 2011 ECF only to play like a finals MVP in the finals. That's the point. Frankly, it might be too late to change gameplan, but this is a case where Miami really is wasting Bosh's talents by keeping him as merely a floor spacer. Maybe it's drastic, but they need to find to get Bosh more in the paint and the rock more. We've seen Bosh still play like an elite big whenever Wade was out and he was the 2nd option. It just seems that at this point, Bosh would be more productive as the second option than Wade currently is.

I think they are just playing Bosh at the wrong position. He is much smaller than Hibbert and thus not able to rebound over him. That is what happens when he plays Center. Move him back to PF and the team has a much better flow. I honestly think having Joel Anthony at Center helps more in this series.

ManRam
06-01-2013, 11:32 PM
A lot of people have underrated the Spurs on the defensive end this year for whatever reason. Like I keep saying, their starting 5 man unit was ranked the best defensive unit in the league, and they've been the best defensive team in the playoffs. (3rd best in the regular season)

The general theory seems to be "because the Spurs don't play as physical as Indy does" they're not as good defensively. Not taking into consideration they foul the least of any team in the league, and Pop has done a masterful job during this run of making the other team very uncomfortable on the offensive end.

And as you said, they're offense is still very good. They will make Miami's defense work harder than Indy is. Now granted Miami will do the same to them. I just think people are discounting the Spurs defense big time. Last year I could understand, but this year I can only guess people are just basing off of last year.

The Spurs are a great defensive team, but I think they're great in a vastly different way. That's the only thing. I'm not trying to slight them, and I get that offensively they are vastly superior than Indy...but still. I think the Hibbert factor is just so outrageously and almost unbelievably huge. Duncan is a great defender and Splitter has nice size...but Hibbert is impacting this series so incredibly much. Take him out of the picture, like the Spurs series would, and I think things become a lot different.

I might be underrating the Spurs (this is coming from a person that likes and always roots for the Spurs out West), but at the very, very least it's such a different match up. And different right now is something the Heat probably are chomping at the bit for.

It's all about match ups some times, and I refuse to think that the Spurs match up better...even though they very well could be more talented and much deeper :shrug:

kozelkid
06-01-2013, 11:36 PM
The Spurs are a great defensive team, but I think they're great in a vastly different way. That's the only thing. I'm not trying to slight them, and I get that offensively they are vastly superior than Indy...but still. I think the Hibbert factor is just so outrageously and almost unbelievably huge. Duncan is a great defender and Splitter has nice size...but Hibbert is impacting this series so incredibly much. Take him out of the picture, like the Spurs series would, and I think things become a lot different.

I might be underrating the Spurs (this is coming from a person that likes and always roots for the Spurs out West), but at the very, very least it's such a different match up. And different right now is something the Heat probably are chomping at the bit for.

It's all about match ups some times, and I refuse to think that the Spurs match up better...even though they very well could be more talented and much deeper :shrug:

You have a point defensively. But I think that offensively they bring an equally tough mismatch. Heat's D predicates on quick rotations. If there is any team with elite ball movement/shooting/spacing/discipline that could break through that defense, it's the Spurs' offense. The way they are playing offensively reminds me so much of Dallas's offense a few seasons ago.

Only difference is that instead of relying on an inconsistent Barea or Terry, they have all-NBA caliber perimeter players in Parker and Manu.

Jarvo
06-01-2013, 11:40 PM
I
A lot of people have underrated the Spurs on the defensive end this year for whatever reason. Like I keep saying, their starting 5 man unit was ranked the best defensive unit in the league, and they've been the best defensive team in the playoffs. (3rd best in the regular season)

The general theory seems to be "because the Spurs don't play as physical as Indy does" they're not as good defensively. Not taking into consideration they foul the least of any team in the league, and Pop has done a masterful job during this run of making the other team very uncomfortable on the offensive end.

And as you said, they're offense is still very good. They will make Miami's defense work harder than Indy is. Now granted Miami will do the same to them. I just think people are discounting the Spurs defense big time. Last year I could understand, but this year I can only guess people are just basing off of last year.

:dance: we're in so idc what ppl think

TheLegend
06-01-2013, 11:40 PM
I think they are just playing Bosh at the wrong position. He is much smaller than Hibbert and thus not able to rebound over him. That is what happens when he plays Center. Move him back to PF and the team has a much better flow. I honestly think having Joel Anthony at Center helps more in this series.

Has it occurred to u that perhaps the HeAt do not have anyone to guard Hibbert???

ManRam
06-01-2013, 11:41 PM
You have a point defensively. But I think that offensively they bring an equally tough mismatch. Heat's D predicates on quick rotations. If there is any team with elite ball movement/shooting/spacing/discipline that could break through that defense, it's the Spurs' offense. The way they are playing offensively reminds me so much of Dallas's offense a few seasons ago.

Only difference is that instead of relying on an inconsistent Barea or Terry, they have all-NBA caliber perimeter players in Parker and Manu.

I know I'm totally ignoring the offensive side of things. I tell myself that, but I still can't get myself past the Hibbert effect.

I very well could not be thinking logically, but seeing Hibbert destroy two different offenses in succession now (NYK and MIA) has me drinking his kool aid way too much.

jerellh528
06-01-2013, 11:41 PM
Remember when everyone said LeBron had a superteam, with a top 5 and 15 player?


Yeah, not so much.

It is a super-team, regular season wise.

*Superman*
06-01-2013, 11:42 PM
Remember when people said the Spurs would win the Finals this year?

Yeah, I don't.

jerellh528
06-01-2013, 11:45 PM
Lol people letting lebron off the hook, but crucify any other superstar that would be in this position.

waveycrockett
06-01-2013, 11:54 PM
You're underrating the Spurs BIG time here. This isn't the same Spurs as the last few years. Duncan has played like a dpoy candidate, Splitter is no slouch either. And by the way, David West is a terrible defender so I have no idea what you're talking about. I digress.

Unlike the previous few seasons where Spurs were at best an above average defensive team (with a D-rating at around 10-12th in the league), they have been elite this season with a D-rating ranked 3rd in the league. Couple that with an elite offensive team/gameplan who are great at spacing the floor and passing the rock, and you got big problems for Miami's D. This offense should be even more deadly than Dallas's was a few years ago.

David West is a huge body. I guess we can agree to disagree about David West defense but he is huge and LeBron can't just run over him and Chris Bosh stands no chance of posting him up. He does a great job of funneling traffic to Hibbert. The HEAT should be able to bottle up Tony Parker the same way they've done to Derrick Rose.

BALLER R
06-01-2013, 11:56 PM
Lol people letting lebron off the hook, but crucify any other superstar that would be in this position.

Not all his fault. I want the Pacers to win and yes there were things he could of done better. But he was carrying this team for most of the game tonight.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-01-2013, 11:59 PM
A few were saying the Heat were on a different level. But that team that won 27 straight games isn't even close to this team. Wade and Bosh have been a non-factor.

b@llhog24
06-02-2013, 12:04 AM
Not all his fault. I want the Pacers to win and yes there were things he could of done better. But he was carrying this team for most of the game tonight.

He's probably not paying attention.

Khri
06-02-2013, 12:05 AM
Remember when people were talking about the Clippers getting to the Finals? Discuss.

Goat post.

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 12:05 AM
The HEAT should be able to bottle up Tony Parker the same way they've done to Derrick Rose.

Why? Derrick Rose doesn't play next a Tim Duncan nor a Manu Ginobili. With Bulls, they only have to double-team Rose (or Nate this year) and no other player could make the D pay by collapsing the D. With the Spurs, you have ANOTHER elite creator in Manu. Not to mention, again, an elite cast of shooters for spacing.

It's not even comparable between the two teams as far as ability to create offense.

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 12:08 AM
Why? Derrick Rose doesn't play next a Tim Duncan nor a Manu Ginobili. With Bulls, they only have to double-team Rose (or Nate this year) and no other player could make the D pay by collapsing the D. With the Spurs, you have ANOTHER elite creator in Manu. Not to mention, again, an elite cast of shooters for spacing.

It's not even comparable between the two teams as far as ability to create offense.

Come on people cant really be this naivete. The Spurs are Tony Parker and 4 other interchangeable guys around him at all times including Duncan and Manu. That entire team runs off TP. You stop him you cut off the Head.

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 12:10 AM
Come on people cant really be this naivete. The Spurs are Tony Parker and 4 other interchangeable guys around him at all times including Duncan and Manu. That entire team runs off TP. You stop him you cut off the Head.

LOL.

I might need to sig this because calling an ALL-NBA big man and a top 5 SG "interchangeable guys" is pretty comical stuff.

But please, continue explaining to me how three players with nearly identical USG%'s are part of an offense that is clearly run through ONE guy.

ManRam
06-02-2013, 12:12 AM
Come on people cant really be this naivete. The Spurs are Tony Parker and 4 other interchangeable guys around him at all times including Duncan and Manu. That entire team runs off TP. You stop him you cut off the Head.

Manu, maybe, because he's had one of his worst, if not his worst, seasons since he was a rookie. Duncan has been special this year and is not an interchangeable piece.

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 12:16 AM
Manu, maybe, because he's had one of his worst, if not his worst, seasons since he was a rookie. Duncan has been special this year and is not an interchangeable piece.

Honestly, it's not much worse than his previous few seasons. If anything, you should judge his last season with a grain of salt given the sample size..

And again, their USG%'s are all nearly identical. Parker's role is not even close to as much responsibility as what Rose does in Chicago, and that's a big a reason why their offense is elite and Chicago's isn't. And why shutting one of three is not enough (not to mention easier said than done given that Rose was far less prepared and experienced for a deep playoff run two years ago than Parker probably is this season).

Laidback_Scrapp
06-02-2013, 12:17 AM
they beat boston last yr in game 7...but i dont really count that either

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 12:20 AM
Manu, maybe, because he's had one of his worst, if not his worst, seasons since he was a rookie. Duncan has been special this year and is not an interchangeable piece.

I'm not saying Duncan is a scrub by any means he's still a good player. His defense is still among the best among bigs but other than TP all those guys on offense are interchangeable parts. All you have to is look at the Spurs record without Duncan to know that. Tim Duncan is NOT a guy who can beat you by himself for more than a few possessions anymore. Manu definitely cant. It's all about TP and Pop's system of unselfish/High IQ basketball. I'm not disparaging Duncan by any means just acknowledging the reality. And they dont have the ingredients on defense to do what the Pacers have done to Miami obviously.

sep11ie
06-02-2013, 12:22 AM
it's been so bad that i think people actually would let lebron off the hook a little...and that says something.

I'm so proud of T-Mac being in the finals I may do a McGrady sig myself.... Oh wait....

naps
06-02-2013, 12:23 AM
Remember when you (not people) were talking about how great Blake "DunK Only" Griffin was so great? Remember when you were talking about how great the clippers were?

Clippersfan86
06-02-2013, 12:25 AM
Remember when people were talking about the Clippers getting to the Finals? Discuss.

Remember when that never happened but you pulled it out of your *** because you were butthurt? Show me these people that said the Clippers would be in the finals. Nice projection though. The reason this is relevant is because of the sheer volume of people hyping the Heat. I laugh at the thought that people were throwing around the word "dynasty" at various times.

RLundi
06-02-2013, 12:29 AM
Lots of mad people in this thread.

I still think the Heat will win, but I'm not sure of their superiority anymore. Bosh and Wade can't continue playing this bad, can they? I expect them to turn it around for the Finals (hopefully because I don't want a short series).

But it looks like this Heat dynasty will not be a dynasty at all and was a gross miscalculation. Bron can't do it by himself; I just never thought with Wade and Boss that he'd have to.

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 12:30 AM
Honestly, it's not much worse than his previous few seasons. If anything, you should judge his last season with a grain of salt given the sample size..

And again, their USG%'s are all nearly identical. Parker's role is not even close to as much responsibility as what Rose does in Chicago, and that's a big a reason why their offense is elite and Chicago's isn't. And why shutting one of three is not enough (not to mention easier said than done given that Rose was far less prepared and experienced for a deep playoff run two years ago than Parker probably is this season).

Who said anything about USG%? Parker is the engine that drives that team which is where the comparison was made. Obviously POP preaches the opposite of a ball dominant offense.

bucketss
06-02-2013, 12:30 AM
let me guess, when the heat win you will go back to saying "not impressive they are too stacked"

LAKobeBryant
06-02-2013, 12:30 AM
defence > offence

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 12:35 AM
Who said anything about USG%? Parker is the engine that drives that team which is where the comparison was made. Obviously POP preaches the opposite of a ball dominant offense.

Which is why simply "shutting down" Parker will not stop the Spurs offense. Bulls could only wish to have a player alongside Rose who can create his own shot as efficiently as Manu and off the dribble might I add. Bulls could only wish to have the elite shooting cast that Spurs do. Bulls could only wish they have the elite post threat of a Tim Duncan.

Shutting down Parker is not nearly as detrimental to the Spurs as it was for the Bulls. Not even close. And again, I don't expect them to shut him down in the first place like with Rose because unlike Rose, Parker is far more prepared and experienced for this stage. Whereas Rose was battling injuries and exhausted cause he had no experience in pacing himself for such a long season like Parker knows.

BradHolt4CYoung
06-02-2013, 12:37 AM
They are still a win away from making the finals 3 years in a row. IDK how many teams in NBA history have done that.

Teeboy1487
06-02-2013, 12:38 AM
Bosh needs to get out of Miami or the HEAT need to trade him. He is such an awful fit for that team.

He makes too much money for the production he is giving. The Heat need to trade him this summer.

naps
06-02-2013, 12:42 AM
Lol people letting lebron off the hook, but crucify any other superstar that would be in this position.

Except LeBron is playing 1 on 5 on both ends. Do you watch the games? GTFO!

Clippersfan86
06-02-2013, 12:42 AM
They are still a win away from making the finals 3 years in a row. IDK how many teams in NBA history have done that.

They will still go down as one of the great squads (all their years combined). I'm not saying they aren't the best team or not a great team. Although I have no doubt that if they were in the west they would not be heading to 3 straight finals. Indiana is the only team that gives them trouble outside of Chicago who's in terrible shape health wise the last two years. In the west teams would beat them to a pulp and drain them by the time they got to the conference finals.

Nonetheless they SHOULD be the favorites, are the best team and are great. My thing is some people talk about them like they are the 98 Bulls.. and like I said the word dynasty has been thrown around an awful lot with them.

Clippersfan86
06-02-2013, 12:43 AM
BTW... I think Wade should be traded before Bosh. Wade is NEVER healthy, is a year older and is a bit redundant with Lebron playstyle wise. Inside out of Lebron+Bosh+ a defensive center or better playmaking PG would be great.

naps
06-02-2013, 12:45 AM
They are still a win away from making the finals 3 years in a row. IDK how many teams in NBA history have done that.

Well, when they make it there or even win it all, these same people are gonna say they were too stacked! What can you expect from kids these days?

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 12:47 AM
Which is why simply "shutting down" Parker will not stop the Spurs offense. Bulls could only wish to have a player alongside Rose who can create his own shot as efficiently as Manu and off the dribble might I add. Bulls could only wish to have the elite shooting cast that Spurs do. Bulls could only wish they have the elite post threat of a Tim Duncan.

Shutting down Parker is not nearly as detrimental to the Spurs as it was for the Bulls. Not even close. And again, I don't expect them to shut him down in the first place like with Rose because unlike Rose, Parker is far more prepared and experienced for this stage. Whereas Rose was battling injuries and exhausted cause he had no experience in pacing himself for such a long season like Parker knows.

Parker getting into the Lane and wreaking Havoc on the PnR is the entire catalyst for the Spurs offense. You dont need to look at his USG% to see that. Just a working pair of eyes. If Harrison Barnes can do it with good effect as a rookie imagine with LeBron can do. The HEAT can be a nightmare for PG's if they want to shut them down. If Heat can stop the PnR they will be in great shape to run away with the series because I dont think the defensively the Spurs can do much against them on the other end.

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 12:49 AM
Parker getting into the Lane and wreaking Havoc on the PnR is the entire catalyst for the Spurs offense. You dont need to look at his USG% to see that. Just a working pair of eyes. The HEAT can be a nightmare for PG's if they want to shut them down.

That's fine. You STILL haven't disputed the fact that the Spurs have a multi-dimensioned offense that can find other ways to score BESIDES through Parker.

Clippersfan86
06-02-2013, 12:50 AM
Well, when they make it there or even win it all, these same people are gonna say they were too stacked! What can you expect from kids these days?

No... people will just say they play in the east which is shockingly getting WORSE than it already was. Outside of Indiana who is a challenge to any of the top 5 teams in the NBA? Maybe the Knicks if they are hitting their 3's and the Bulls if they are healthy... so we are talking about 4 legitimately good teams in the east. In the west the 8 seed could probably push Miami to 6-7 games. I have no doubt Rockets or Warriors would push the Heat for example.

Of the top 6 teams in the NBA record wise only one was in the east, that was Miami. 5 teams had a point differential of 5+ and 4 were in the west. Basically by the time they get to the finals the last two years they are pretty well rested for the most part. Which is why I think Spurs are going to take them in 5-6 games this year. Spurs are the ones well rested while Miami fights for it's life in the conference finals.

Put any of the top 5 teams in the west into the eastern conference and they likely make a couple finals appearances over the next 5 years.

odiz
06-02-2013, 12:52 AM
you disagree with my comment about how 4-8 the heat aren't really all that better than other teams?

or that wade and bosh have played like bench warmers?

or that they're the most stacked team ever? (because if it's that, i'll point you to a myriad of teams with 6-8 HOFers on it...or 3/5s of the All-NBA 1st team...


or what?

i'm confused. because you said nothing that has anything to do with my post.

Please point out some teams that had 8 HOFers on them...

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 12:52 AM
That's fine. You STILL haven't disputed the fact that the Spurs have a multi-dimensioned offense that can find other ways to score BESIDES through Parker.

They have great shooters who depend on parker sucking in the entire defense. Like I said if Harrison Barnes was able to make life tough for TP imagine what LeBron will do. And even if the Heat cant stop TP it's just going to be a very high scoring game. The Spurs dont have the pieces to stop LeBRon.

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 12:56 AM
They have great shooters who depend on parker sucking in the entire defense. Like I said if Harrison Barnes was able to make life tough for TP imagine what LeBron will do.

They also have an incredibly efficient wing who can CREATE his own offense. They can try to make TP's life tough, but they will need to find a way to stop Manu. Again, as I alluded in my first post, if Wade continues to struggle and Bosh continues to play like a sixth man (i.e. inconsistently), that will NOT be enough offense to make it pass the Spurs. Even if Lebron gives Parker trouble, because you CANNOT rely on consistently holding Spurs in the 80s or 90s. That'll work against offensive inept teams like Chicago or Indiana, but not against SAS.

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 01:01 AM
They also have an incredibly efficient wing who can CREATE his own offense. They can try to make TP's life tough, but they will need to find a way to stop Manu. Again, as I alluded in my first post, if Wade continues to struggle and Bosh continues to play like a sixth man (i.e. inconsistently), that will NOT be enough offense to make it pass the Spurs. Even if Lebron gives Parker trouble.
WHO? I seriously hope your not talking about Manu. He is a shell of himself. Dude is shooting 38% from the Field this postseason. He is not even their best SG anymore Danny Green is and neither Green nor Kawhi Leonard can create for themselves against guys like Wade or Battier at an efficient clip

barreleffact
06-02-2013, 01:07 AM
Remember when everyone said LeBron had a superteam, with a top 5 and 15 player?


Yeah, not so much.

You must be Wilt because you have an incredible reach there. Regardless of current level of play, they WERE top tier players. Let's not imply they are scrubs here.

JC_
06-02-2013, 01:09 AM
This is hardly the 1st time we've seen Bosh struggle in the playoffs with the HEAT.

That's why I said there are like 3 teams in the league that can cause Bosh to struggle and they've played 2 this postseason. Meaning, he struggles against a few teams no matter what year it is.

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 01:10 AM
WHO? I seriously hope your not talking about Manu. He is a shell of himself. Dude is shooting 38% from the Field this postseason. He is not even their best SG anymore Danny Green is and neither Green nor Kawhi Leonard can create for themselves against guys like Wade or Battier at an efficient clip

True, but Manu has also been matched against two great perimeter defenders in Klay Thompson and then Tony Allen. Besides that, Manu can still dribble and create for others. which is still enough to beat Miami's trap or at least moreso than what Bulls were capable against Miami two years.

Once again, if you think trapping Parker will be enough to stem the Spur's offense, you are underestimating them in a bad, bad way.

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 01:15 AM
True, but Manu has also been matched against two great perimeter defenders in Klay Thompson and then Tony Allen. Besides that, Manu can still dribble and create for others. which is still enough to beat Miami's trap or at least moreso than what Bulls were capable against Miami two years.

Once again, if you think trapping Parker will be enough to stem the Spur's offense, you are underestimating them in a bad, bad way.

The funny thing is watching Manu you can tell he doesn't have his legs under him and he wont get them back this postseason or maybe ever again. And I watched the Warriors do just that to great effect with perimeter defenders not nearly as good as what the Heat or Pacers have.

JC_
06-02-2013, 01:18 AM
In the west the 8 seed could probably push Miami to 6-7 games. I have no doubt Rockets or Warriors would push the Heat for example.

Put any of the top 5 teams in the west into the eastern conference and they likely make a couple finals appearances over the next 5 years.

Heat could sweep both the Rockets and Warriors... they beat OKC last year in what? 5 games? The Heat struggle against big teams/aggressive, not teams that play the same kind of style as them. Pacers could probably beat those teams in 5 games as well (if they play the way they are playing right now). A healthy Bulls team could do the same. Knicks are the Knicks, I won't comment on how they'd do because they would probably choke.

kozelkid
06-02-2013, 01:21 AM
The funny thing is watching Manu you can tell he doesn't have his legs under him and he wont get them back this postseason or maybe ever again. And I watched the Warriors do just that to great effect with perimeter defenders not nearly as good as what the Heat or Pacers have.

And in spite of that, Spurs' offense has still been producing. Both, against GSW's perimeter D and Memphis's elite D that is maybe, maybe a notch below Indiana's. Hell, we haven't even gotten to Duncan yet who can very easily give as much trouble to Miami in the paint offensively as Hibbert has already been doing.

Clippersfan86
06-02-2013, 01:23 AM
Heat could sweep both the Rockets and Warriors... they beat OKC last year in what? 5 games? The Heat struggle against big teams/aggressive, not teams that play the same kind of style as them. Pacers could probably beat those teams in 5 games as well (if they play the way they are playing right now). A healthy Bulls team could do the same. Knicks are the Knicks, I won't comment on how they'd do because they would probably choke.

Bogut+Lee would eat Miami alive too. GS definitely has the size to bother Miami. Asik is also a bruiser similar to Vujevic who destroyed Miami this year. OKC has less physicality in the paint and size than Houston and GS.

amos1er
06-02-2013, 01:30 AM
There are a lot of reason's that they could be underachieving. Coaching, injuries, stat hogging...etc. But what I do know is (and vegas odds agree) that the Heat are the heavy favorites to win it all because they have by far the most stacked team in the league. It should be a cake walk for them to win it all even with Wade and Bosh not at 100%. Anything less than a title this year would be one of the greatest failures in sports history.

PrettyBoyJ
06-02-2013, 01:31 AM
It's the LeBron Factor. He's makes that team better than they really are.. Unhealthy Wade, Aging role players, and Chris bosh is their biggest player. LeBron masks their flaws

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 01:35 AM
And in spite of that, Spurs' offense has still been producing. Both, against GSW's perimeter D and Memphis's elite D that is maybe, maybe a notch below Indiana's. Hell, we haven't even gotten to Duncan yet who can very easily give as much trouble to Miami in the paint offensively as Hibbert has already been doing.

GSW lost that series due to alot of inexperience and an ability to hold a lead. Their defense was fine. They out played the Spurs the majority of that series. Once Curry ran out of gas it was a done deal. Hibbbert has to play 40+ minutes of high intensity basketball on both ends for the Pacers to have a chance against Miami. Duncan cant do that at this stage and he hasnt this postseason even in close games. He plays his usual 30 minutes. His gas tank clearly was on E when he was pushed to far against GSW.

JC_
06-02-2013, 01:38 AM
Bogut+Lee would eat Miami alive too. GS definitely has the size to bother Miami. Asik is also a bruiser similar to Vujevic who destroyed Miami this year. OKC has less physicality in the paint and size than Houston and GS.

Lee has been injured most of the postseason and Bogut is good but he would be nowhere near as effective as Hibbert is right now.

goingfor28
06-02-2013, 01:43 AM
In the west the 8 seed could probably push Miami to 6-7 games. I have no doubt Rockets or Warriors would push the Heat for example.

Put any of the top 5 teams in the west into the eastern conference and they likely make a couple finals appearances over the next 5 years.

Heat could sweep both the Rockets and Warriors... they beat OKC last year in what? 5 games? The Heat struggle against big teams/aggressive, not teams that play the same kind of style as them. Pacers could probably beat those teams in 5 games as well (if they play the way they are playing right now). A healthy Bulls team could do the same. Knicks are the Knicks, I won't comment on how they'd do because they would probably choke.

:laugh2: that last line. Well done sir!

KingPosey
06-02-2013, 02:20 AM
The Heat are only head and shoulders above everyone else if their big fellas are playing superstar ball. Wade is obviously slowed by injury. What's not to get?

amos1er
06-02-2013, 02:23 AM
It's the LeBron Factor. He's makes that team better than they really are.. Unhealthy Wade, Aging role players, and Chris bosh is their biggest player. LeBron masks their flaws

100% False.

Kobe's teammates PER's and Winshares per/48 all increase while playing with him over playing without him. And Lebrons teammates PER's and Winshares/48 decrease while playing with him.

waveycrockett
06-02-2013, 08:14 AM
100% False.

Kobe's teammates PER's and Winshares per/48 all increase while playing with him over playing without him. And Lebrons teammates PER's and Winshares/48 decrease while playing with him.

LMAO nobody in there right mind with a working set of eyes believes LeBron makes his teammates worse while Kobe's makes his better.

Clippersfan86
06-11-2013, 11:45 PM
Parker 6 pts. Manu 7. Duncan 12. Spurs 113-77 anyways. Miami was badly overrated by many. Sure they may still win the series but people were acting like they were clearly the best team.

koreancabbage
06-11-2013, 11:49 PM
100% False.

Kobe's teammates PER's and Winshares per/48 all increase while playing with him over playing without him. And Lebrons teammates PER's and Winshares/48 decrease while playing with him.

again, Kobe's win share is not even that great to begin with!

ztilzer31
06-12-2013, 12:02 AM
Parker 6 pts. Manu 7. Duncan 12. Spurs 113-77 anyways. Miami was badly overrated by many. Sure they may still win the series but people were acting like they were clearly the best team.

Uh they were clearly the best team in the regular season... They literally coasted to the best record in the NBA.

Supreme LA
06-12-2013, 12:08 AM
Remember when Leboners started making excuses?

The reason Wade & Bosh aren't playing to their ability is because Lebron's style of play pretty much dictates how the offense is run. He basically has the ball in his hands on almost every possession. This has less to do with the Heat having a "Super Team" because they obviously do, and more to do with Lebron's game. It's in his control to get the best out of his team.

The Heat have the best roster in all of the NBA. I couldn't imagine a better complement of players around Lebron. Stop with the excuses as to why they aren't winning a title this year.

championships
06-12-2013, 12:10 AM
3rd worse *** whoopin in Finals history .. well done super team.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 12:25 AM
3rd worse *** whoopin in Finals history .. well done super team.

Yea it's a flat out embarrassment. Sorry but the hands down best team doesn't get slaughtered like that in the finals. Coasting during the regular season is great and all but doesn't mean they are clearly the best. Indiana pushed them to their limits and now SA has them on the ropes. If SA goes up 3-1 in San Antonio which is probable.. Miami is toast.

carlthack
06-12-2013, 12:35 AM
I've been saying all year, and during their 27 game winning streak, that the Heat are over-rated and its easy to go on a winning streak when youre playing weak Eastern conference teams. I said just wait until they had to play a tough team from the West. And here we are.

Big Zo
06-12-2013, 12:35 AM
3rd worse *** whoopin in Finals history .. well done super team.

Made the playoffs the last week of the season. Well done, LA super team.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 12:38 AM
I've been saying all year, and during their 27 game winning streak, that the Heat are over-rated and its easy to go on a winning streak when youre playing weak Eastern conference teams. I said just wait until they had to play a tough team from the West. And here we are.

All along most of people with logic said the Spurs and Grizzlies were their nightmare matchups. Same with Indy who pushed them to 7 and Bulls who even without Rose+injured key guys competed almost every game. The fact that there are 4-5 teams that have a legit chance to beat Miami in a series means they aren't the legendary team people talk about. You think the Bulls, Celtics or Lakers dynasty teams had 4-5 teams that COULD beat them in a series and push them every time? Nope.

Bartlee23
06-12-2013, 12:40 AM
Uh they were clearly the best team in the regular season... They literally coasted to the best record in the NBA.

So by your logic Chicago had the best record a couple years recently and can you remind me how many championships they won? It was only a matter of time to where teams can figure out how to play Miami. Don't get me wrong they are a great team but with the age and health of the team their window has begun to close. If they don't win this year that's one championship for the "big three" with healthy teams looking to compete next year making their chances harder.

Chronz
06-12-2013, 01:03 AM
You mean when they were last healthy?

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 01:11 AM
You mean when they were last healthy?

Is Wade ever healthy anymore though? He always seems to have lingering injuries. Nobody else is listed as injured for the Heat.

TRF929
06-12-2013, 01:31 AM
What I remember is the better "TEAM" lost in the ECF, so there's no reason to get a big head about the Spurs play. We'll just have to wait and see what happens Thursday. If its a close game, I pull for the spurs winning if its a 10+ point win I'd say its the Heat.

numba1CHANGsta
06-12-2013, 01:44 AM
Heat fans are too cocky :)

Tony_Starks
06-12-2013, 01:48 AM
Countdown to when everybody makes Spo the scapegoat....

kobe4thewinbang
06-12-2013, 06:45 AM
The Heat have never won a game 7 before. : /Huh? Yes, they have.

valade16
06-12-2013, 10:46 AM
I think the biggest problem with this whole debate is the idea that they're either good or they're not. There is SO MUCH more to it than that.

A team can be talented and not good, and a team can be good but not very talented.

The Heat clearly have the talent. LBJ is the best player in the world. Everyone talks about how Wade and Bosh have lost it but their PERs for the season were 24 and 20. They have Ray Allen, Mario Chalmers, Udonis Haslem, Mike Miller, Joel Anthony, and Rashard Lewis, who are all legitimate NBA players. On top of all that, they also have Chris Anderson, who had a 17.4 PER during the season.

I don't care who you are, a team with 3 20+ PER players, and a collection of quality role players around them that goes 7 deep is a talented roster. I mean, if everyone here had to pick one roster to start a team with, how many people are legitimately going to pick teams besides the Heat? At worst they'd be the 3rd most selected team...

So now the question is, why are they not playing very good right now?

hugepatsfan
06-12-2013, 11:02 AM
Remember when Leboners started making excuses?

The reason Wade & Bosh aren't playing to their ability is because Lebron's style of play pretty much dictates how the offense is run. He basically has the ball in his hands on almost every possession. This has less to do with the Heat having a "Super Team" because they obviously do, and more to do with Lebron's game. It's in his control to get the best out of his team.

The Heat have the best roster in all of the NBA. I couldn't imagine a better complement of players around Lebron. Stop with the excuses as to why they aren't winning a title this year.

I actually agree with this to a certain extent. A lot of players struggle to get their offense going as solely spot up players. I don't think Lebron or any player in the NBA having the ball all the time is good for the rest of the team's offense. That's why SA's offense is so effective IMO - everyone touches it and runs plays, even guys that aren't stars. That gets the role players going. But on the other hand, Lebron is so awesome with the ball in his hands that it's worth it to sacrifice some of the effectiveness of the role players so he can go off. It's about finding that balance between maximizing the effectiveness of the best player in the world but also getting the rest of the team going. I don't think Spo does a good job of coming up with offensive strategies that do that.

Chronz
06-12-2013, 11:18 AM
I actually agree with this to a certain extent. A lot of players struggle to get their offense going as solely spot up players. I don't think Lebron or any player in the NBA having the ball all the time is good for the rest of the team's offense. That's why SA's offense is so effective IMO - everyone touches it and runs plays, even guys that aren't stars. That gets the role players going. But on the other hand, Lebron is so awesome with the ball in his hands that it's worth it to sacrifice some of the effectiveness of the role players so he can go off. It's about finding that balance between maximizing the effectiveness of the best player in the world but also getting the rest of the team going. I don't think Spo does a good job of coming up with offensive strategies that do that.
Rubbish, you ask Spurs players and they will tell you TP dominates the ball immensely, its why Pop brings Manu (another ball heavy player) off the bench. Heat should seriously consider this with Bron-Wade, now that Wade is no longer the explosive athlete, his ball dominance doesn't really help the team or Bron. THATS the reason they aren't playing as well as they have, I mean, Wade doesn't just become a bum simply because Bron is handling the ball, Bron has handled the ball more in the past and that didn't stop Wade from tearing it up. Even last year when he was injured he could at least have moments of stardom, tho that may have had more to do with the injections he was able to take for those injuries.

So no, anyone trying to blame synergy between the stars will have to look at Wade before they speak of Bron. Its not his job to preserve the athleticism of his supporting players.

The Big-3 have been together for years, there is no reason for them to all of sudden forget how to play together, it certainly has nothing to do with style of play unless your saying that the cast is so different now

Chronz
06-12-2013, 11:23 AM
So now the question is, why are they not playing very good right now?

Maybe the other team is better and thus forcing them to play worse?

If you're asking why havent they played well all postseason, well, couldn't it be as simple as injuries or immense decline?


You showed us the regular season stats but that ignores the variance in Wade's play this year, want to guess what his best stretch of the season was? It was during the streak, he was at his most productive during that run, that it coincided with the Heats best run isnt surprising either, nor is the fact that Wade was at his healthiest back then. Sadly he got injured right before the playoffs (again).

Bosh is hurt but its the kind of "hurt" that you should be expected to play through. No excuses for him or Bron struggling, but Wades massive decline isn't helping any. I think the Heat are wrong for trying to get him going instead of getting him out of the best lineups.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-12-2013, 11:24 AM
Remember when everyone said LeBron had a superteam, with a top 5 and 15 player?


Yeah, not so much.

Let's not act like Lebron is superman out there right now. Wade is playing just as well as Lebron right now.

^ I didn't know this was an old thread.

rocket
06-12-2013, 11:28 AM
The Heat are still going to win the series. You guys need to realize that the Heat aren't going to win every game, yes I know they got smashed but they have been down before.

sep11ie
06-12-2013, 11:34 AM
you disagree with my comment about how 4-8 the heat aren't really all that better than other teams?

or that wade and bosh have played like bench warmers?

or that they're the most stacked team ever? (because if it's that, i'll point you to a myriad of teams with 6-8 HOFers on it...or 3/5s of the All-NBA 1st team...


or what?

i'm confused. because you said nothing that has anything to do with my post.

Has JB ever posted anything that makes sense?

jimm120
06-12-2013, 11:36 AM
During that 27 game win streak and even in the last 3 seasons in general people talk about the Heat as if they are head and shoulders above the league, talk about dynasty.... yet why do they get pushed to 7 game series every year? Looks to me like the Pacers are the better all around team TBH. Lettuce Discuss.


This is a BS topic, mo.

Yes, the goal is to win 3+ championships but the purpose of grouping together is for the heat to be a serious contender for the final's every year. And guess what, ....


...this team has been together 3 years and 3 consecutive years it's been to the finals.

That was the purpose. And on top of it all, it's not just get to the finals but also have a chance to win it. They lost in 6 to Dallas and seem competitive against the spurs.


I hate the heat but topics like this are ridiculous in the sense that just because he didn't win it all he sucked or they sucked. Bs. They built the team to get the the finals and be serious contenders. They've done just that. 3 straight finals appearances, competitive in all 3 finals. 1 win so far...possibly 2 if they can win it this year

Hangtime
06-12-2013, 11:39 AM
What cost the Pacers the series in the last round was the turnovers. What cost the Spurs game 2 was turnovers. Miami makes you pay when you carelessly hand the ball to them and allows them to get out in transition. This is totally what Miami does best. They get their rhythm going and those shooters are nailing everything.

Wade is obviously hurt just like he was last series. Pack the paint and turn Lebron into a jump shooter and facilitator. Bosh is ineffective again.

Even with that said I say Miami wins game 4 because the Spurs won't have that kind of hot shooting night and Parker's status is in the air. Spurs win game 5 and Heat goes back to Miami down 2-3.

ChicagoJ
06-12-2013, 11:48 AM
The Heat are still going to win the series. You guys need to realize that the Heat aren't going to win every game, yes I know they got smashed but they have been down before.

I don't know who will win the series, but I'm pretty sure the heat will bounce back. Things change so much from game to game.

Clippersfan86
06-12-2013, 11:48 AM
Jim it IS championship or bust for this team and the players feel the same. Getting to the finals in the east isnt a big deal when your only challenge is the young Pacers and the Bulls without Rose the last two playoffs. In the west they might not even get to the WCF if they had to play the Spurs or Grizzlies.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 11:53 AM
This is a BS topic, mo.

Yes, the goal is to win 3+ championships but the purpose of grouping together is for the heat to be a serious contender for the final's every year. And guess what, ....


...this team has been together 3 years and 3 consecutive years it's been to the finals.

That was the purpose. And on top of it all, it's not just get to the finals but also have a chance to win it. They lost in 6 to Dallas and seem competitive against the spurs.


I hate the heat but topics like this are ridiculous in the sense that just because he didn't win it all he sucked or they sucked. Bs. They built the team to get the the finals and be serious contenders. They've done just that. 3 straight finals appearances, competitive in all 3 finals. 1 win so far...possibly 2 if they can win it this year

The second LeBron said they were going to win 7 titles and 'it was gonna be easy' he set the bar at Championship or bust. Making the Finals in an extremely weak East is not good enough, and thats not what they signed up for. LeBron is being compared to the greatest player or all time, he cannot go 1-2 with this superteam and 1-3 overall with 3 dreadful individual performances.

kdspurman
06-12-2013, 11:53 AM
Rubbish, you ask Spurs players and they will tell you TP dominates the ball immensely, its why Pop brings Manu (another ball heavy player) off the bench. Heat should seriously consider this with Bron-Wade, now that Wade is no longer the explosive athlete, his ball dominance doesn't really help the team or Bron. THATS the reason they aren't playing as well as they have, I mean, Wade doesn't just become a bum simply because Bron is handling the ball, Bron has handled the ball more in the past and that didn't stop Wade from tearing it up. Even last year when he was injured he could at least have moments of stardom, tho that may have had more to do with the injections he was able to take for those injuries.

So no, anyone trying to blame synergy between the stars will have to look at Wade before they speak of Bron. Its not his job to preserve the athleticism of his supporting players.

The Big-3 have been together for years, there is no reason for them to all of sudden forget how to play together, it certainly has nothing to do with style of play unless your saying that the cast is so different now that

To a certain degree yes I would agree. But many times before he gets the ball he does a good job of moving without the ball. A lot of times he will bring it up, and give it up to Green or Leonard at the 3 point line and do the "loop" play where he runs around 3 screens and comes back to get the ball, or he'll reverse if he doesn't have space. Of course he runs the P&R a lot, but I think that's what makes him tough to guard is the amount of energy he expends moving without the ball. The defenses are so dialed in on him at times, so his ability to be effective even without the ball is something that's proven very effective.

I agree with everything you said though. There are numbers out there that support the argument, and have shown Miami has been at its best with Wade & Bosh not on the court with Lebron. Obviously if Bosh is hitting that jump shot it changes those numbers, but when he's not hitting, and not even trying to play aggressive, really what good is he out there? I think it's too late to make that sort of drastic change and bench Wade, nor do I think Wade would welcome the move. So they will just need to play through it at this point. ( I think at least)

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 12:04 PM
LeBron's has more talent around him than any star in the NBA. His teammates not playing up to their talent level is a whole nother story. LeBron is as guilty as anyone for not showing up in the Finals so why is he getting a pass while blame shifts to his teammates? Its not like he's carrying them like he did against Indy. Spurs stars aren't playing up to their talent level either. LeBron is not getting it done, plain and simple. Its not like the Spurs Big 3 is 'just too much' for LeBron to deal with by himself, they have all been no shows too. Manu is basically the Heat's second best player behind Mike Miller.

Chronz
06-12-2013, 12:08 PM
But many times before he gets the ball he does a good job of moving without the ball. A lot of times he will bring it up, and give it up to Green or Leonard at the 3 point line and do the "loop" play where he runs around 3 screens and comes back to get the ball, or he'll reverse if he doesn't have space. Of course he runs the P&R a lot, but I think that's what makes him tough to guard is the amount of energy he expends moving without the ball. The defenses are so dialed in on him at times, so his ability to be effective even without the ball is something that's proven very effective.
Yeah but still, Bron shares the ball with D-Wade, Id say hes a more ball reliant player than any other perimeter guy TP spends the most of his time with. Thats my sole point. I dont get into the argument of whos hogging the ball too much because I think both players are doing whats best for their team to win. Given the success they have had to get to the Finals, I think they deserve some leeway here.



I agree with everything you said though. There are numbers out there that support the argument, and have shown Miami has been at its best with Wade & Bosh not on the court with Lebron. Obviously if Bosh is hitting that jump shot it changes those numbers, but when he's not hitting, and not even trying to play aggressive, really what good is he out there? I think it's too late to make that sort of drastic change and bench Wade, nor do I think Wade would welcome the move. So they will just need to play through it at this point. ( I think at least)

Whats sad is that Wade is playing aggressively, its just not leading to anything. Whereas Bron is trying to defer to a fault and Bosh is hoping one of his stars gets its going because thats the only way hes going to get going himself.

Its an odd trinkle down effect with this team IMO

PhillyFaninLA
06-12-2013, 12:15 PM
The Heat are still going to win the series. You guys need to realize that the Heat aren't going to win every game, yes I know they got smashed but they have been down before.

The Heat are the best team in the game and I honestly think games like last night don't phase them. Regardless of the Parker injury I don't think Spurs win the series. The Heat are a weird team, I don't think you can beat them when they want to play, and they will want to play 4 times in this series. I'd be stunned if they lose the next game.

kdspurman
06-12-2013, 12:37 PM
Yeah but still, Bron shares the ball with D-Wade, Id say hes a more ball reliant player than any other perimeter guy TP spends the most of his time with. Thats my sole point. I dont get into the argument of whos hogging the ball too much because I think both players are doing whats best for their team to win. Given the success they have had to get to the Finals, I think they deserve some leeway here.


Whats sad is that Wade is playing aggressively, its just not leading to anything. Whereas Bron is trying to defer to a fault and Bosh is hoping one of his stars gets its going because thats the only way hes going to get going himself.

Its an odd trinkle down effect with this team IMO

Agreed... It's harder when they're not getting out in the open court, that's where the game becomes easy for them together. Wade has had 2 pretty solid 1st halves, and then was not very involved in the game in both 2nd halves.

Byronicle
06-12-2013, 12:45 PM
Remember when everyone said LeBron had a superteam, with a top 5 and 15 player?


Yeah, not so much.

wade was a top 5 and bosh was a top 15 before joining the Heat. Remember when Heat got Shane Battier and everybody was all about that? or this season when they got Ray Allen? and then in the playoffs this year with Birdman's play?

if Heat were winning this series, everybody will be complaining how stacked the Heat are. Thing is people are going to jump and jump off the bandwagon with this team and make excuses because that is what the foundation of this team was based on

also Lebron is playing like the next MJ. Its not just Bosh and Wade playing below their personal levels

Byronicle
06-12-2013, 12:48 PM
Remember when everyone was on the Heat bandwagon saying they are a shoe in to win the championship?

The Heat are a great team. They are stacked. They just don't play as a team and they don't want it as bad. If I lost a game, I would be pissed. LeBron at the press conference after game 1 seemed light hearted.

todu82
06-12-2013, 12:49 PM
The series isn't over yet but if you ask me The Heat peaked to early and may have got worn out vs. Indiana.

NFLNBA
06-12-2013, 01:00 PM
The Heat are a stacked team....LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Allen, Chalmers,Miller, Lewis, Birdman, Cole ect ect they are a great team and only lack a talented 7 footer. Name a deeper bench then that! The biggest difference i see right now playing against the Spurs is they play with more ball movement and chemistry. They are coached better and have best big man in this series. Spurs big 3 are all older but still getting it done. To be quite honest its shocking to see how the heat dont sweep through the playoffs. They played a bulls team with no Rose, Deng, and Hinrich and that was still a tough series and they get taken to 7 games against a team without its best player in Granger. Lebron has games where he disappears like last night and Wade just is a hit and miss player now i think from riding Lebron so long maybe?

This series is not over by any means especially if Parker is done for series!!!! But i want the Spurs to knock them done so all the old Celtic fans who became Heat fans would all become irrelevant again.

lol, please
06-12-2013, 02:17 PM
During that 27 game win streak and even in the last 3 seasons in general people talk about the Heat as if they are head and shoulders above the league, talk about dynasty.... yet why do they get pushed to 7 game series every year? Looks to me like the Pacers are the better all around team TBH. Lettuce Discuss.
And then the Warriors beat them at home exposing them. :laugh2:

nycericanguy
06-12-2013, 02:35 PM
So the Heat are only "stacked" if everyone plays well?

Was Wade not arguably the best SG in the NBA this year putting up over 21/5/5 on 52% with a 24 PER?

Was Bosh not a top 5 PF averaging 17 & 7 with a 20 PER?

Just because those 2 guys haven't played great doesn't mean MIA doesn't have great talent... Lebron is supposed to make players better around him? How about the fact that he has turned Bosh into Frye this postseason?

Ridiculous, and it's not like they don't have a ton of good role players too... Chalmers, Allen, Miller, Haslem, Birdman, Cole, Battier... those are all good NBA role players.

The Heat are absolutely stacked, aside from the big 3 they even got Mike Miller who was a very good player back then to sign for less... the Heat didn't want any competition for titles... they wanted it easy... period.

But talent alone doesn't always win titles...

Big Zo
06-12-2013, 02:43 PM
Why don't I ever see this stupid *** thread when they win?

BigCityofDreams
06-12-2013, 02:48 PM
Why don't I ever see this stupid *** thread when they win?

You know why it's the same reason not every Heat fan comes out when they lose. Both sides have fans that hide when things get rough.

Chronz
06-12-2013, 02:57 PM
So the Heat are only "stacked" if everyone plays well?

Was Wade not arguably the best SG in the NBA this year putting up over 21/5/5 on 52% with a 24 PER?

Was Bosh not a top 5 PF averaging 17 & 7 with a 20 PER?

Just because those 2 guys haven't played great doesn't mean MIA doesn't have great talent... Lebron is supposed to make players better around him? How about the fact that he has turned Bosh into Frye this postseason?

Ridiculous, and it's not like they don't have a ton of good role players too... Chalmers, Allen, Miller, Haslem, Birdman, Cole, Battier... those are all good NBA role players.

The Heat are absolutely stacked, aside from the big 3 they even got Mike Miller who was a very good player back then to sign for less... the Heat didn't want any competition for titles... they wanted it easy... period.

But talent alone doesn't always win titles...
Theres just one problem chief, the Heat have been together 3 years. Has Wade ever looked this bad in any of the prior playoff runs? Bosh too. Has the lack of athleticism ever been this apparent? How is that on Bron?

The only thing Bron should be responsible for is his own poor play because its obvious hes deferring to Wade to a fault, not the other way around. If anything he should eliminate Wade but Spo lacks the stones and Wade lacks the selflessness, hes already gone on the record, disapproving of Bron trying to take the Cleveland route.

FOBolous
06-12-2013, 02:59 PM
i, for one, thinks there's nothing wrong with the Heat. They're as dominating as they were in the regular season...it's just that people underrated, and is still underrating, San Antonio. The fact that, with San Antonio winning, people are talking about about what's wrong with Miami instead of talking about how good San Antonio is proves this.

San Antonio is THE most dominating team of the 2000s right next to the LA Lakers. for the majority of the 2000s, if it wasn't the Lakers winning the championship...it was San Antonio. San Antonio right now is what the Lakers would have looked like if Kobe and Shaq stayed together. San Antonio has arguably the league's best coach, the best PF in history, one of the league's best 6th man, and one of the league's 5 best PG. between their core players...they have 3 championships, 4 conference titles , and 9 division titles. their conference titles and division titles is nothing to scoff at either. they won the conference title playing in the league's best conference and the division title in the league's toughest division (Texas triangle anyone?)

so no...there's nothing wrong with Miami. San Antonio is just too good. What we're witnessing right now is the equivelent of Magic Johnson's Lakers versus Michael Jordan's Bulls in 1991...an aging, but battle tested, team versus a young, upstart, talented team. the only difference is that this time around...it looks like the aging, battle tested team is winning.

AlexTmz2
06-12-2013, 03:00 PM
Some of you are making it seem like if the Spurs are the champions already. This is a 7 game series and in no way are the Miami Heat done. They are the current champions FYI. Please stop making all these bash threads against the heat, its getting old. They're in the FINALS! They are a great team and have the best player on the planet. Stop hating so much on the Heat please.

This coming from a humble/die hard Spurs fan btw...

Go Spurs Go! :win:

RaiderLakersA's
06-12-2013, 03:02 PM
During that 27 game win streak and even in the last 3 seasons in general people talk about the Heat as if they are head and shoulders above the league, talk about dynasty.... yet why do they get pushed to 7 game series every year? Looks to me like the Pacers are the better all around team TBH. Lettuce Discuss.

The Pacers are at home, watching the Finals just like you and I. You can't be the better team if you're not playing well into June.

nycericanguy
06-12-2013, 03:04 PM
Theres just one problem chief, the Heat have been together 3 years. Has Wade ever looked this bad in any of the prior playoff runs? Bosh too. Has the lack of athleticism ever been this apparent? How is that on Bron?

The only thing Bron should be responsible for is his own poor play because its obvious hes deferring to Wade to a fault, not the other way around. If anything he should eliminate Wade but Spo lacks the stones and Wade lacks the selflessness, hes already gone on the record, disapproving of Bron trying to take the Cleveland route.

I didn't say this was all on Bron... SAS is a better TEAM... they might not have as much talent, but they play better together.

Wade is clearly playing hurt, and of course players decline, Lebron can't have guys in their prime around him at all times. But Bosh & Wade are still stars, a postseason below their standard's doesn't change that.

I mean Duncan & Manu are clearly in decline as well... they are not fast or athletic.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 03:05 PM
i, for one, thinks there's nothing wrong with the Heat. They're as dominating as they were in the regular season...it's just that people underrated, and is still underrating, San Antonio. The fact that, with San Antonio winning, people are talking about about what's wrong with Miami instead of talking about how good San Antonio is proves this.

San Antonio is THE most dominating team of the 2000s right next to the LA Lakers. for the majority of the 2000s, if it wasn't the Lakers winning the championship...it was San Antonio. San Antonio right now is what the Lakers would have looked like if Kobe and Shaq stayed together. San Antonio has arguably the league's best coach, the best PF in history, one of the league's best 6th man, and one of the league's 5 best PG. between their core players...they have 3 championships, 4 conference titles , and 9 division titles. their conference titles and division titles is nothing to scoff at either. they won the conference title playing in the league's best conference and the division title in the league's toughest division (Texas triangle anyone?)

so no...there's nothing wrong with Miami. San Antonio is just too good. What we're witnessing right now is the equivelent of Magic Johnson's Lakers versus Michael Jordan's Bulls in 1991...an aging, but battle tested, team versus a young, upstart, talented team. the only difference is that this time around...it looks like the aging, battle tested team is winning.

This stuff started against the 49 win Pacers. Its not just a Spurs thing. Indy is a very good team, smoked my Knicks, but they had no business taking the Heat to 7 games with the talent deficit and lack of depth on that squad.

tredigs
06-12-2013, 03:05 PM
Remember when everyone said LeBron had a superteam, with a top 5 and 15 player?


Yeah, not so much.

Exactly. Still a fine cast, but not up to last years par in these playoffs.

Though the easy counter right now is, "remember when Lebron wasn't guarded like he was Dwight Howard from the perimeter and still hit 41% from range?". Like Wade and Bosh, he truly is playing scared/tight ball. Hell even through the rest of these playoffs he was hitting his 3's at close to 40%. But now that it's the finals he's been given WIDE OPEN looks wherever he wants it and he just can't do it. It's so odd to watch.

I'm expecting a big bounce back game from him, though I thought the same about last night.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 03:07 PM
Exactly. Still a fine cast, but not up to last years par in these playoffs.

Though the easy counter right now is, "remember when Lebron wasn't guarded like he was Dwight Howard from the perimeter and still hit 41% from range?". Like Wade and Bosh, he truly is playing scared/tight ball. Hell even through the rest of these playoffs he was hitting his 3's at close to 40%. But now that it's the finals he's been given WIDE OPEN looks wherever he wants it and he just can't do it. It's so odd to watch.

I'm expecting a big bounce back game from him, though I thought the same about last night.

I thought the same the game before that too, at least scoring wise. I bet on him scoring over 28 in game 2 and he drops like 17 with nearly all of it coming in garbage time. It really is very odd to watch though, I wasn't around for Wilt Chamberlain but from what I have read its probably something similar. He really is something of an anomaly when it comes to his Finals performances compared to his peak performances though.

Chronz
06-12-2013, 04:08 PM
I thought the same the game before that too, at least scoring wise. I bet on him scoring over 28 in game 2 and he drops like 17 with nearly all of it coming in garbage time. It really is very odd to watch though, I wasn't around for Wilt Chamberlain but from what I have read its probably something similar. He really is something of an anomaly when it comes to his Finals performances compared to his peak performances though.

Haters were wrong about Wilt.

Chronz
06-12-2013, 04:14 PM
I mean Duncan & Manu are clearly in decline as well... they are not fast or athletic.
Which is why San Antonio didn't rely on them to the same degree they used to. Miami on the other hand saw its best performance this season during the brief moment that Wade was healthy, this season. Its a great loss that Bron and Bosh should theoretically overcome, they arent and because of that they deserve some blame, but the play of Wade all post season has had a much more damaging effect to their title run.

You truly underrate the effect the sudden loss of a superstar has on a team. Saying they are still stars doesn't do the downgrade justice. FYI, statistically speaking, Wade hasn't even been an All-Star these playoffs.

Dade County
06-12-2013, 04:20 PM
During that 27 game win streak and even in the last 3 seasons in general people talk about the Heat as if they are head and shoulders above the league, talk about dynasty.... yet why do they get pushed to 7 game series every year? Looks to me like the Pacers are the better all around team TBH. Lettuce Discuss.

Its do to the script... And it seems to be working; the one thing the League didn't want was for the HEAT to just dominate everyone, this would have made fans of other teams feel like the NBA was a big joke. 3 Stars coming together on one team.

So from the beginning the league took control over this team ( or should I say Lbj " HEAT vs Dallas Finals"). The HEAT winning rings, can't be perceived as easy. So the entertainment begins, the HEAT win some games they loss some games, life goes on.

I hoped I helped you out OP.

tredigs
06-12-2013, 04:26 PM
Haters were wrong about Wilt.

Mostly, but he's had his share of ghost-modes in Finals games. Eg, no reason not to shoot in the 2nd half of a Finals game 7 against Boston. I don't think I ever watched tape of that game so I don't know the exact scenario, but it's pretty inexcusable on its face.

BigCityofDreams
06-12-2013, 04:36 PM
Mostly, but he's had his share of ghost-modes in Finals games. Eg, no reason not to shoot in the 2nd half of a Finals game 7 against Boston. I don't think I ever watched tape of that game so I don't know the exact scenario, but it's pretty inexcusable on its face.

When it comes to guys like Bron, Wilt, and Manning I think there are situations when the opposing team can get them off their game. I think they are so much better physically than their counterparts that the only way to stop them is to get into their head.

Chronz
06-12-2013, 04:39 PM
Mostly, but he's had his share of ghost-modes in Finals games. Eg, no reason not to shoot in the 2nd half of a Finals game 7 against Boston. I don't think I ever watched tape of that game so I don't know the exact scenario, but it's pretty inexcusable on its face.

Ive only seen the 2nd half which doesn't tell us much about the ebbs and flow of the game but from everything Ive read, Wilt was complying with the system and what his coach asked of him. I dont know off hand how much time he missed but that injury played a minor role. What gets lost is that Wilt still played well within the confines of hisrole (he outrebounded and outshot Russ in the 4th despite the injury IIRC).

Some blame should fall on Wilt but to say its inexcusable makes it sound likes hes the number 1 guy whos at fault. Hes not ,that was Butch

The guy was to Wilt what D'Antoni has been to Dwight, only compounded because he still favored some post/isolation play, only it came at the expense of Wilt and in favor of a broken down Elgin.

D-Leethal
06-12-2013, 04:44 PM
Haters were wrong about Wilt.

I'd be interested to hear your take on how they were wrong/what they were wrong about. I am not going to pretend I've done much more than watch the Willis Read game of the 1970 finals, game 7 in 1969 vs the Celtics and read Bill Simmons book (which is obviously biased towards Russell and against Wilt). But it seems his tendency to play well below his peak in the biggest moments seems well documented. It just seems so odd to watch LeBron dominate any team in his path with ease and than hit a roadblock when he reaches the Finals for the second time, on a favored team, with HCA. Based on what I've read, it was similarly odd to watch Wilt do the same.

tredigs
06-12-2013, 04:56 PM
Ive only seen the 2nd half which doesn't tell us much about the ebbs and flow of the game but from everything Ive read, Wilt was complying with the system and what his coach asked of him. I dont know off hand how much time he missed but that injury played a minor role. What gets lost is that Wilt still played well within the confines of hisrole (he outrebounded and outshot Russ in the 4th despite the injury IIRC).

Some blame should fall on Wilt but to say its inexcusable makes it sound likes hes the number 1 guy whos at fault. Hes not ,that was Butch

The guy was to Wilt what D'Antoni has been to Dwight, only compounded because he still favored some post/isolation play, only it came at the expense of Wilt and in favor of a broken down Elgin.

All reasonable enough, but at a certain point - aka the 2nd half of a finals game 7 - (assuming he was healthy enough), you just have to take the reigns and understand what's best for your team if you're the leader/best in the world. I'll watch the tape of that one sometime this week.

RaiderLakersA's
06-12-2013, 05:35 PM
Its do to the script... And it seems to be working; the one thing the League didn't want was for the HEAT to just dominate everyone, this would have made fans of other teams feel like the NBA was a big joke. 3 Stars coming together on one team.

So from the beginning the league took control over this team ( or should I say Lbj " HEAT vs Dallas Finals"). The HEAT winning rings, can't be perceived as easy. So the entertainment begins, the HEAT win some games they loss some games, life goes on.

I hoped I helped you out OP.

I'm betting the conspiracy theorists are nodding in accord.

RaiderLakersA's
06-12-2013, 05:35 PM
Dupe

Chronz
06-12-2013, 05:49 PM
I'd be interested to hear your take on how they were wrong/what they were wrong about. I am not going to pretend I've done much more than watch the Willis Read game of the 1970 finals, game 7 in 1969 vs the Celtics and read Bill Simmons book (which is obviously biased towards Russell and against Wilt). But it seems his tendency to play well below his peak in the biggest moments seems well documented. It just seems so odd to watch LeBron dominate any team in his path with ease and than hit a roadblock when he reaches the Finals for the second time, on a favored team, with HCA. Based on what I've read, it was similarly odd to watch Wilt do the same.

Lots of similarities in their careers, especially in how they were judged and perceived, but Wilt was dealt the worst hand of anyone.

The Lakers-Celtics series is usually the one people cling to but having HCA and being favored shouldn't be the end all tell all in these sort of things. Im hoping you agree because there is some value in coaching, experience and chemistry.

The Celtics dominated these areas, whats more is that, even tho the Lakers had HCA, the Celtics were still the better regular season team. They did sport superior efficiency differentials/srs, its like when an old battle tested veteran doesn't want to take the regular season seriously anymore or lacks the mojo to go all out for the full 82 but come the post season, that know-how and ability still exists, sorta like the Celtics of recent memory that always seemed to raise it up a notch beyond their regular season trends. Thats what I picture those Russel Celtics to be.

Then theres Butch, Ill just say one thing about him that should let you know why I leave Wilt off the hook for getting him canned "We can throw the ball to Wilt, and he will score, but mannn is that an ugly offense to watch".

Forgive the quotations, its prolly not an exact quote word for word but he said something to that effect. He literally had the best player in the game, the ONLY guy who has actually experienced what it takes to beat Russell's then Celtics, and the dunce relegates him to a 3rd option afterthought, puts him behind Elgin in terms of touches, they were butting heads over the offensive gameplan all year.

I would agree that the Lakers had more talent at the top, but what good is that talent if its not being optimally utilized? This was the reason Butch was fired and why the first thing his replacement tried to do (before Wilt got injured) is feature Wilt ahead of Elgin.

Shkelqim
06-12-2013, 09:22 PM
It's because the Heat show up when they want too, they lose desire at certain points in a series. But even if they go 7 games, I'll take the Heat against any team.

Hawkeye15
06-12-2013, 10:12 PM
It is a super-team, regular season wise.

Not really. One constant in LeBron's regular season teams. They win a ton of games, despite roster help. When the playoffs start, by all means, prove to me that the Heat have this ridiculously stacked roster, as many claim.

They have 3 awesome players, and a bunch of guys who have roles. Small roles. When 2/3 of those awesome players decide to join the role players in production, do we still have a super team?

Rhetorical question...

Bruno
06-12-2013, 10:33 PM
a lot of attention being paid to wade not being himself or being on a superstar level in these finals, but what about Parker? The spurs are also dealing with a star suddenly not able to bring his usual impact. back-to-back mediocre at best game from Tony Parker in games two and three following the injury strain.

In fact, Wade has been statistically better than Tony Parker through the first three games. Wade has an average game score of 10.5, Parker 9.5 through three games.

LeBron deserves all the criticism for his own play. and forget what he's doing or not doing to make his teammates better, what is he doing himself? Putting up a true-shooting percentage of .441%, taking 54 shots to score 50 points, putting up 16.5 points per game and getting outplayed by Danny Green ain't gona cut it if you're the reigning MVP, leading the favorite to win the title. the wonderful rebound numbers don't get the attention they deserve when he's struggling to crack the 20 point mark each game.

he needs to get his house in order and he needs to believe in his jumper and ability to spread the floor. he's getting out smarted by Pops defensive scheme and only his jumper will get him out of this mess pop has created for him. LBJ is much improved and can hit that jumper necessary to space the floor for his team. will he? will he bring that fire and hit those jumpers we've seen him do plenty of times in lesser series? he's gona have to. make no mistake about it, here in Finals 2013 the one achilles in LBJs game dating back to his youth will be the reason why he does or does not conquer this defensive scheme. LBJs jumper on full display and under the microscope here in finals 2013. I think he has the ability. will he make it happen? story of the season/chapter in his legacy.

TheNumber37
06-12-2013, 10:40 PM
Not 1... Not 2... OKay maybe 1.

RaiderLakersA's
06-13-2013, 12:20 AM
Heat are still the favorites to win it all...until they don't. I still think they are going to catch lightning in a bottle and win the next 2 to make a series of it going back to Miami. Says so on page 3 of the script.

naps
06-14-2013, 12:46 AM
During that 27 game win streak and even in the last 3 seasons in general people talk about the Heat as if they are head and shoulders above the league, talk about dynasty.... yet why do they get pushed to 7 game series every year? Looks to me like the Pacers are the better all around team TBH. Lettuce Discuss.

Yeah...

Dade County
06-14-2013, 12:56 AM
I'm betting the conspiracy theorists are nodding in accord.

HEAT had on their Black jersey's tonight... This is code for series over (lol); ask OKC about game 2 last Finals.

Rigged *** league...smh

Hawkize31
06-14-2013, 01:12 AM
Not 1... Not 2... OKay maybe 1.

This probably isn't the first time you've been a little premature.