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View Full Version : Rangers players made it clear to Sather coach’s act was wearing thin



SLY WILLIAMS
05-30-2013, 11:48 AM
Glen Sather said yesterday the decision to fire John Tortorella was his. The reality is the players made the decision for the club president and general manager.

The Rangers players had had enough of the coach and they said so during their exit meetings on Monday. Sources have confirmed Sather had no intention of dismissing Tortorella in the wake of the team’s second-round elimination by the Bruins until a critical mass of players informed the GM that the coach’s overbearing personality had become a roadblock to success.


We’re told that though there were no ultimatums issued by the players, the overwhelming sentiment was that Tortorella had become the problem rather than the solution for the Rangers, who are now going on 20 years and 19 seasons since their last Stanley Cup in 1994.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/players_made_thin_clear_to_sather_cOsHma3Fr70r6KKl lcqh1K?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Rangers


John Tortorella may have lost support of NY Rangers players, but it was his poor record that got him fired

You didn’t have to do anything but watch the Rangers in the playoffs to see that in the end they wanted to play for John Tortorella about as much as Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks wanted to play for Mike D’Antoni at the end. When that happens the coach gets fired the way Tortorella got fired on Wednesday by Glen Sather, who apparently will be at Madison Square Garden after even the Dolans are gone.

John Tortorella has a Stanley Cup on his resume. So do a lot of guys who never acted as if they invented hockey. In New York, over four-and-a-half seasons coaching the Rangers, he missed the playoffs once on the last day of the regular season, lost in the first round twice, nearly got swept in the second round this year, one year after making it to the Eastern Conference finals.

Even if you watched the guy from the outside you have to know that none of this ever stopped Tortorella – to borrow a great line from the movie “All About Eve” – from acting as if he were the piano that wrote the concerto.


This isn’t about the way Tortorella occasionally treated reporters just trying to do their jobs, perhaps thinking at the Garden you could treat the media any way you wanted to and still get carried around the room on your bosses’ shoulders. Isn’t about the way he sometimes demanded they only address him with questions. No, this was about the guy’s record, and about the way it ended for his team after they managed to finish strong against the Capitals.

And the way it ended was with what should have been a sweep by the Bruins in the second round of the playoffs. The Knicks and their star, Anthony, looked a lot better in their second-round series against the Pacers than Henrik Lundqvist and the rest of Tortorella’s players looked against Boston. If the Bruins goalie, Tuukka Rask, doesn’t trip all over himself in a big moment in Game 4, the Rangers’ season doesn’t even make it to Memorial Day weekend. Maybe that is why Lundqvist, before he said goodbye for the summer, sounded as enthusiastic about Tortorella as Carmelo did about D’Antoni in the end.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/lupica-cold-reality-torts-record-put-ice-article-1.1358256?localLinksEnabled=false

bsi
05-30-2013, 12:01 PM
That's why Brassard was the only one really playing at a high level, Torts hadn't worn on him yet, but he would have just like Dubinsky, Gaborik, DelZotto, Richards etc etc. It was the right time for a change.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-30-2013, 12:16 PM
That's why Brassard was the only one really playing at a high level, Torts hadn't worn on him yet, but he would have just like Dubinsky, Gaborik, DelZotto, Richards etc etc. It was the right time for a change.

I remember us having some discussions about Torts and the team earlier in the season. I have been impressed that you kept an open mind and did not ignore what we were seeing on the ice.

I personally know how hard it is to show up to work every day with a boss that can be overbearing and disrespectful. Torts had positives and negatives but in the end the negatives snowballed to a place that the players lost faith.

fingerbang
05-30-2013, 12:51 PM
When did he lose the locker room exactly? Because they got off to an awful start this season. Did he somehow rub them the wrong way during the offseason when he was not in contact with the team? Or was the trip to the ECF the last straw for the players?

I was wrong about this team, they are soft, mentally soft. I don't see how you can be confident going forward.

metalbest
05-30-2013, 08:05 PM
How could you ask if Torts lost the team during the offseason or after the ECF? If you can't tell Gabs asked out of this organization because of Torts (with his tweet that's for sure now), and that all the negative reinforcement throughout the season became more of a negative feeling then a positive one I don't know what you are looking at.

Torts screaming and yelling at you when you are the number one team in the conference is acceptable to the players for a couple reasons. You are winning. This means that Torts isn't yelling as much because there isn't as many negative things as positive for him to pick on. This also means that the players picked each other up and kept pushing forward because they believed they were the best. Its always easier to deal with distractions when you are winning. When you are losing, they become even worse.

Gabs becoming Torts' whipping boy didn't help at all, I believe this was the beginning of the end. A lot of the players really liked Gabs. He was one of the pieces that got them to the ECF last year. As I said in a thread on if Gabs would be traded or not (before he was obviously) Nash became Torts favorite because he is the big bodied star that Torts loves. Someone strong on the puck who is not a finesse player. Gabs quickly found the dog house and wasn't coming out because Torts no longer needed Gabs to score for him. Although I believe Torts was wrong there, wouldn't it be so much nicer right now to have Gabs still? Imagine the different team we would be with both Gabs and Nash under a coach that actually tried to create offense. I'm sure Gabs wasn't keeping it a secret from the plalyers on the team that he left because of Torts. I'm also 100% sure that was the beginning of the decline for Torts with his players.

I think the final straw was Torts saying that Hags "stinks" on the PP. I don't know about you, but I was watching that and going.... "What did he just say? Was he serious? Did he just think out loud? Wow, what a bad coaching decision." I don't know about you, but I think half way through his rant he realized he was an idiot. Watch the clip, don't you see it in his face? That oh my god what did I just say in a fit of rage type look. He lets the media push his buttons, he gets pissed off before he starts talking with them because he doesn't want to do the interviews but he has to. So he pisses and moans and pouts like a baby.

Which is hilarious for us, until he degrades a player to the national media in a way that should be kept in house. I have seen college teams walk out on a coach for doing some of the same stuff. I remember reading an article about pro players doing this to a coach when the coach lost their respect. To say they are mentally soft is in my eyes incorrect. To say they were fed up with constant degrading and negative reinforcement would be more appropriate. One last point on this topic, if I am playing for Torts, and he makes the comments he made about Hags to the national media and I am Hags teammate, as soon as I pick my jaw up off the floor I am knocking Torts off. That's just me, but a team is a team. You never disrespect a teammate, as a player or a coach. Especially outside the locker room. If I was your teammate or coach and I told the world you stink, would you want me to be your teammate/coach any longer?

So are the Rangers players soft? No. Are they mentally soft? No. Am I confident in them playing better next year under a new coach and new system? Absolutely. And I am proud to say I am a fan of each and every one of those players. As always, Let's Go Rangers!

fingerbang
05-30-2013, 09:03 PM
It doesn't add up. It's not like the Rangers started to struggle midway through the season. They started underachieving the second the puck was dropped game 1 of the regular season.

We officially have a team full of prima donnas that tune out a coach that developed a system that won thm the prince of wales trophy.

Ovechkins done it for years. Maybe the players can start blaming the refs next.

Torts whipped this team into shape last year. Apparently those days are over.

I get it though, it's more comfortable to put all the blame on one guy and fire him. It's a lot harder to look in the mirror.

NYSPORTS98
05-30-2013, 09:37 PM
Soft Rangers players have to look in the mirror.

nyr2002nyr
05-30-2013, 09:45 PM
It doesn't add up. It's not like the Rangers started to struggle midway through the season. They started underachieving the second the puck was dropped game 1 of the regular season.

We officially have a team full of prima donnas that tune out a coach that developed a system that won thm the prince of wales trophy.

Ovechkins done it for years. Maybe the players can start blaming the refs next.

Torts whipped this team into shape last year. Apparently those days are over.

I get it though, it's more comfortable to put all the blame on one guy and fire him. It's a lot harder to look in the mirror.

They are pros so they need to take some of the blame as well. That being said NOBODY wants to work for an @sshole ever. He lost the locker room and it wasn't with one event it was an accumulation of things.

fingerbang
05-30-2013, 10:32 PM
They are pros so they need to take some of the blame as well. That being said NOBODY wants to work for an @sshole ever. He lost the locker room and it wasn't with one event it was an accumulation of things.

Players hated playing for Bowman but they sucked it up and did it.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 08:05 AM
Players hated playing for Bowman but they sucked it up and did it.

Odd i never saw Bowman act like a ******* everyday and publicly take shots at his players. He had more class then that

NYSPORTS98
05-31-2013, 08:48 AM
Odd i never saw Bowman act like a ******* everyday and publicly take shots at his players. He had more class then that

Ever hear of Bill Parcells?

- side note. For those loving Kreider (and yes, I like him a lot), are we to blame Torts for his miserable performances in Hartford too?

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 09:05 AM
Ever hear of Bill Parcells?

- side note. For those loving Kreider (and yes, I like him a lot), are we to blame Torts for his miserable performances in Hartford too?

Bill "The Professional quitter" Parcells yeah i might have head that name

NYSPORTS98
05-31-2013, 09:53 AM
Bill "The Professional quitter" Parcells yeah i might have head that name

like Scotty Bowman, apparently you aren't aware of the rest.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 12:58 PM
like Scotty Bowman, apparently you aren't aware of the rest.

Except they won rings.....Try another comparison

NYSPORTS98
05-31-2013, 02:37 PM
Except they won rings.....Try another comparison

Is it that hard to follow along? The coaches, Bowman, Parcells & Keenan all won championships and all ridiculed their players as often, if not more than Torts. None of them got canned coming off successful seasons. Oh, and Torts won a Cup too.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 02:52 PM
Is it that hard to follow along? The coaches, Bowman, Parcells & Keenan all won championships and all ridiculed their players as often, if not more than Torts. None of them got canned coming off successful seasons. Oh, and Torts won a Cup too.


Obviously following the topic is hard for you. ONCE AGAIN they as coaches didnt ask people to play outside of themselves. Did Bowman ask Mario to play checking line center? Did Bowman ask Ulf to play soft d? NO he didnt try to change who they were as players what they did do as coaches was put his players in the best spot to help the team doing what they did best TORTS DID NOT

Bowman wasnt nearly as bad as Torts was. Torts was not only an *** to players he was the same way to media and everyone else.

And if you want to talk big tuna the NFL forum is that way ----->

SLY WILLIAMS
05-31-2013, 03:05 PM
If this team was full of guys like Sean that had repeated problems with other coaches I would wonder about this.

If this was a group of guys that did not give a guy a chance I would wonder about this.

If this was a coach that was respectful to everybody I would wonder about this.

I respect these players. I think they stood up when somebody had to otherwise we would have had another lost season next season. Several days before this happened I said if a change was not made I would have no hope going in to a new season for the first time in my life. I could see there were major problems. I think many of us could. Some defended the situation for a long time but finally realized a changed had to be made. That is part of professional sports.

fingerbang
05-31-2013, 03:10 PM
Obviously following the topic is hard for you. ONCE AGAIN they as coaches didnt ask people to play outside of themselves. Did Bowman ask Mario to play checking line center? Did Bowman ask Ulf to play soft d? NO he didnt try to change who they were as players what they did do as coaches was put his players in the best spot to help the team doing what they did best TORTS DID NOT

Bowman wasnt nearly as bad as Torts was. Torts was not only an *** to players he was the same way to media and everyone else.

And if you want to talk big tuna the NFL forum is that way ----->

With the exception of Richards who got demoted to the fourth line for his poor play, who was really playing outside of their skillset?

This team is full of two-way forwards and defenseman. That's what Sather and co have been drafting.

NYSPORTS98
05-31-2013, 03:15 PM
Obviously following the topic is hard for you. ONCE AGAIN they as coaches didnt ask people to play outside of themselves. Did Bowman ask Mario to play checking line center? Did Bowman ask Ulf to play soft d? NO he didnt try to change who they were as players what they did do as coaches was put his players in the best spot to help the team doing what they did best TORTS DID NOT

Bowman wasnt nearly as bad as Torts was. Torts was not only an *** to players he was the same way to media and everyone else.

And if you want to talk big tuna the NFL forum is that way ----->


Besides Richards, who stunk at everything and had to be benched, what players were told to play outside themselves?

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 03:37 PM
With the exception of Richards who got demoted to the fourth line for his poor play, who was really playing outside of their skillset?

This team is full of two-way forwards and defenseman. That's what Sather and co have been drafting.


So you dont think its the reason Gaborik is gone?

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 03:38 PM
Not to mention i was Torts biggest supporter. But he lost it in many ways.

fingerbang
05-31-2013, 03:46 PM
So you dont think its the reason Gaborik is gone?

I think Gaborik was a combination of him coming off an injury, him most likely playing through a new/re-aggravated injury, not playing well, and finally, being lazy. There were times this year when Gaborik would just float behind an opposing player and not even try to backcheck. Asking a player like Gaborik to backcheck a little bit is not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole either. It's hockey 101. We all dogged Ovechkin when that xbox controller gif came out. Well that's what Gaborik was doing this year. He played defense for us up until this year. Maybe the injury made him hesitant. It's not like he exploded in Columbus either. He wasn't the same player he was last year when he was there.

fingerbang
05-31-2013, 03:48 PM
It's like everyone that underachieved did so because of Torts and now that he's gone everything is going to be ok. That's delusional.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 03:55 PM
I think Gaborik was a combination of him coming off an injury, him most likely playing through a new/re-aggravated injury, not playing well, and finally, being lazy. There were times this year when Gaborik would just float behind an opposing player and not even try to backcheck. Asking a player like Gaborik to backcheck a little bit is not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole either. It's hockey 101. We all dogged Ovechkin when that xbox controller gif came out. Well that's what Gaborik was doing this year. He played defense for us up until this year. Maybe the injury made him hesitant. It's not like he exploded in Columbus either. He wasn't the same player he was last year when he was there.

yeah and remember when Gab was sent to the 4th line for 1 whole shift

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 04:12 PM
#NYR forwards Ryan Callahan and Carl Hagelin both underwent successful surgeries to repair torn labrums in their left shoulders

SLY WILLIAMS
05-31-2013, 04:24 PM
Not to mention i was Torts biggest supporter. But he lost it in many ways.

BSI defended the coaching for a long time also but he saw what was going on during the season and in the playoffs. He seems to have changed his mind as well.

The Devils had several coaches during a time they won multiple cups. Coaching is usually not a lifetime position. Most coaches have shelf lives. It was time for a change. Before the change was even made 71% of the NY Ranger fans said it was time for a change in coaches (NY Daily News Poll)

NYSPORTS98
05-31-2013, 04:36 PM
#NYR forwards Ryan Callahan and Carl Hagelin both underwent successful surgeries to repair torn labrums in their left shoulders

Blame Torts.

Add two more to the injury list including Staal and Clowe. Meanwhile, none of the defenseman have a shot, any speed when skating the puck up ice, none can work the PP, etc. Must be Torts and nothing to do with the Bruins returning 11 out of 12 forwards from their Stanley Cup team while Rangers replaced how many forwards from last season's team?

fingerbang
05-31-2013, 04:39 PM
BSI defended the coaching for a long time also but he saw what was going on during the season and in the playoffs. He seems to have changed his mind as well.

The Devils had several coaches during a time they won multiple cups. Coaching is usually not a lifetime position. Most coaches have shelf lives. It was time for a change. Before the change was even made 71% of the NY Ranger fans said it was time for a change in coaches (NY Daily News Poll)

This is also the same fanbase that scapegoated Sandis Ozolinsh for the 2005-06 playoff loss because he deflected a puck into the net in a series where the Rangers were outscored 17-4. They chanted Ozo and booed him every time he touched the puck.

But hey, if we listened to what the fans thought Sather would have been fired about 7 times by now.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 05:55 PM
Blame Torts.

Add two more to the injury list including Staal and Clowe. Meanwhile, none of the defenseman have a shot, any speed when skating the puck up ice, none can work the PP, etc. Must be Torts and nothing to do with the Bruins returning 11 out of 12 forwards from their Stanley Cup team while Rangers replaced how many forwards from last season's team?


Wahhhhhhh they fired my favorite coach give it a break.

metswon69
05-31-2013, 06:39 PM
Is it that hard to follow along? The coaches, Bowman, Parcells & Keenan all won championships and all ridiculed their players as often, if not more than Torts. None of them got canned coming off successful seasons. Oh, and Torts won a Cup too.

There was also a ton of players who jumped through walls for Bill Parcells conversely. Bill was great at managing personalities on a case by case basis. Torts wasn't. You hear it in his press conferences, his interviews, and lord knows what it sounds like everyday dealing with him in practice.

I am not suggesting coddling guys is the correct answer either but there has to be something to a locker room full of guys not wanting a coach there when he has a winning pedigree like Torts has.

I think Sly said it right, every coach has his shelf life, and when you have to overhaul your roster in an individual season to get a team to respond, that's an indication of a bigger problem.

Slats deserves blame here too. He's made some bad personnel moves over the years and honestly he shouldn't be here through the next coaching change when that eventually comes up.

metswon69
05-31-2013, 08:55 PM
That said, the Rangers on paper are as talented as their record suggests. They aren't the Bruins, Pens, Blackhawks, Kings but i think they are there with the next group of quality teams. That's why Tort's influence to me is overstated.

He didn't take a rag tag bunch of guys nobody expected anything out of and propel them into the playoffs. They were a bottom echelon playoff team this year (that underachieved in the first half) and last year although not a 1 seed on paper, they had good talent and played well on both sides of the ice. It also obviously helps to have an all world goaltender.

My biggest problem with Torts was his short leash with young talent and more specifically how sparingly young guys were used. I watch a lot of other hockey teams give their young players time to grow, make mistakes, and still get valuable playing time. Even when the Rangers were going good in 2011-2012, we saw little of that. How do you incorporate those guys without giving them much needed playing time?

NYSPORTS98
05-31-2013, 09:08 PM
Wahhhhhhh they fired my favorite coach give it a break.

Yeah we know, the roster is destined for a dynasty but the coach held them back. :rolleyes:

mikel816
05-31-2013, 09:57 PM
IMO coaches like Torts have shorter shelf lives. As a person who's had coaches who constantly scream and yell, it does wear thin and it starts to lose meaning. Coaches like Torts tend to succeed early after taking over for quiter less abrasive coaches because the players need a change in pace kick in the butt, but it only lasts so long. IMO coaches that can manage their own emotions and frustrations are better suited to coach for a longer time.

mikel816
05-31-2013, 10:01 PM
Knowing Torts coaching style and personality means the next coach should be the exact opposite whoever it is. Also I still feel that Renney never had the level of talent that Torts had to play with and was just as successful. As far as Sather I feel like he's been a much better GM since the lost season and has given Torts all the talent in the world to get the job done and he didn't.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 10:34 PM
There was also a ton of players who jumped through walls for Bill Parcells conversely. Bill was great at managing personalities on a case by case basis. Torts wasn't. You hear it in his press conferences, his interviews, and lord knows what it sounds like everyday dealing with him in practice.

I am not suggesting coddling guys is the correct answer either but there has to be something to a locker room full of guys not wanting a coach there when he has a winning pedigree like Torts has.

I think Sly said it right, every coach has his shelf life, and when you have to overhaul your roster in an individual season to get a team to respond, that's an indication of a bigger problem.

Slats deserves blame here too. He's made some bad personnel moves over the years and honestly he shouldn't be here through the next coaching change when that eventually comes up.

Slats doesn't deserve to have the job now. But somehow he never gets any blame its amazing

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 10:37 PM
Yeah we know, the roster is destined for a dynasty but the coach held them back. :rolleyes:

Never said that. I think we all honestly liked torts. I think he is a decent coach. He is not the only one to blame. It has to fall on him,players and slats combined. But truth is it was his last year people's maters and obviously fans were growing tired of him. If he got his last year I would have been ok with it. I'm also ok with him being relieved of his duties as we look forward to a fresh start.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 10:40 PM
That said, the Rangers on paper are as talented as their record suggests. They aren't the Bruins, Pens, Blackhawks, Kings but i think they are there with the next group of quality teams. That's why Tort's influence to me is overstated.

He didn't take a rag tag bunch of guys nobody expected anything out of and propel them into the playoffs. They were a bottom echelon playoff team this year (that underachieved in the first half) and last year although not a 1 seed on paper, they had good talent and played well on both sides of the ice. It also obviously helps to have an all world goaltender.

My biggest problem with Torts was his short leash with young talent and more specifically how sparingly young guys were used. I watch a lot of other hockey teams give their young players time to grow, make mistakes, and still get valuable playing time. Even when the Rangers were going good in 2011-2012, we saw little of that. How do you incorporate those guys without giving them much needed playing time?

The last part of this is correct. You play the young talent early and often let them get the feet wet and the growing pains out of the way sooner rather then later

bsi
06-01-2013, 02:37 AM
That said, the Rangers on paper are as talented as their record suggests. They aren't the Bruins, Pens, Blackhawks, Kings but i think they are there with the next group of quality teams. That's why Tort's influence to me is overstated.

He didn't take a rag tag bunch of guys nobody expected anything out of and propel them into the playoffs. They were a bottom echelon playoff team this year (that underachieved in the first half) and last year although not a 1 seed on paper, they had good talent and played well on both sides of the ice. It also obviously helps to have an all world goaltender.

My biggest problem with Torts was his short leash with young talent and more specifically how sparingly young guys were used. I watch a lot of other hockey teams give their young players time to grow, make mistakes, and still get valuable playing time. Even when the Rangers were going good in 2011-2012, we saw little of that. How do you incorporate those guys without giving them much needed playing time?

All they needed was a functioning powerplay to beat the Bruins and they didn't play well at that, so saying "they aren't the Bruins" might be true but they played poorly and pretty much the only thing holding them back from a series win was the PP, something this coaching staff has struggled with since day one. As I said before his system was fine as long as he had a PP to back it up, he didn't so it was destined to fail.

NYSPORTS98
06-01-2013, 03:41 PM
My biggest problem with Torts was his short leash with young talent and more specifically how sparingly young guys were used.

Which is exactly what Tom Coughlin does for the Giants and Belicheck plus does in the NFL. Torts did win a Cup and have been pretty successful in NY despite the many roster changes.

How ironic - Torts was praised last season and less than a year later is questioned on his handling of young players. Meanwhile, Richards is the old vet who got benched. Go figure

metswon69
06-01-2013, 03:54 PM
Nvm..

metswon69
06-01-2013, 04:07 PM
Which is exactly what Tom Coughlin does for the Giants and Belicheck plus does in the NFL. Torts did win a Cup and have been pretty successful in NY despite the many roster changes.

How ironic - Torts was praised last season and less than a year later is questioned on his handling of young players. Meanwhile, Richards is the old vet who got benched. Go figure

So what's the insinuation that the Rangers had minimal talent and he propelled them to the playoffs? The Rangers are as talented as their record suggests they are. If we are speaking of Bill Parcells didn't he say it best when he said "You are what your record says you are".

Call it what you want but Torts lost that locker room and they needed massive overhauls at the trade deadline to even get this team to respond. They were on thin ice (17-15-3) that night against Pittsburgh when Clowe, Brassard, and Moore came into town.

Torts also won a cup with a different system in Tampa Bay and a team that averaged 3 goals a game.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/TBL/2004.html

metswon69
06-01-2013, 04:13 PM
All they needed was a functioning powerplay to beat the Bruins and they didn't play well at that, so saying "they aren't the Bruins" might be true but they played poorly and pretty much the only thing holding them back from a series win was the PP, something this coaching staff has struggled with since day one. As I said before his system was fine as long as he had a PP to back it up, he didn't so it was destined to fail.

Bruins have some elements the Rangers wish they had like offensive depth (with the ability to put Jagr on their 3rd line), a massive shot from the point on the PP (Chara), one of the best faceoff men in the league in Bergeron. Their depth in general was pretty obvious during the series given they were down their top 3 defensemen and it didn't seem to affect them one bit.

That's why i don't put the Rangers in that category of those teams.

jpfunk86
06-02-2013, 11:03 AM
When Push comes to shove it came down to Hank or Tortarella, seems like a no brainer to me.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 12:49 PM
When Push comes to shove it came down to Hank or Tortarella, seems like a no brainer to me.

I agree with you but by the reports I suspect it was far from Hank alone.

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 01:04 PM
Coaches have a course, coaches of the personality like Torts have a shorter one, and he ran it. It doesn't make Torts a bad coach. I admit I was a bit surprised, figured he'd be back. Did not know all season that he'd lost them until the Gaborik trade, which to me was a red flag. Other indicators were there. I ignored them in the hopes they'd turn it around. They did not. Then all the comments on break up day made it obvious. I was surprised it was that extreme and he got fired, but it was the right move.

Coaches run their course.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 01:09 PM
Coaches have a course, coaches of the personality like Torts have a shorter one, and he ran it. It doesn't make Torts a bad coach. I admit I was a bit surprised, figured he'd be back. Did not know all season that he'd lost them until the Gaborik trade, which to me was a red flag. Other indicators were there. I ignored them in the hopes they'd turn it around. They did not. Then all the comments on break up day made it obvious. I was surprised it was that extreme and he got fired, but it was the right move.

Coaches run their course.

Coaches do have a course but it varies based on their players. This team is full of a bunch of *******. Their true colors showed when they sold out a guy that's taken the team farther than they've ever been before. This is not a team that's going to win a cup. They don't have it. They're not talented enough and they're mentally weak.

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 01:15 PM
That may well be the case. But they weren't responding. I like Torts a lot. Achieved a lot with this team, and I think they really suffered due to the lock out.

But we all agree they underachieved, and that there were flaws with both the roster and approach, and someone needs to answer for that, and you can't fire a roster full of players.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 01:28 PM
So what's the insinuation that the Rangers had minimal talent and he propelled them to the playoffs? The Rangers are as talented as their record suggests they are. If we are speaking of Bill Parcells didn't he say it best when he said "You are what your record says you are".

Call it what you want but Torts lost that locker room and they needed massive overhauls at the trade deadline to even get this team to respond. They were on thin ice (17-15-3) that night against Pittsburgh when Clowe, Brassard, and Moore came into town.

Torts also won a cup with a different system in Tampa Bay and a team that averaged 3 goals a game.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/TBL/2004.html

So if the Rangers have minimal talent and are what their record says they are, who cares if the coach lost part of the locker room? IMO, Torts is the scapegoat as this roster isn't nearly as talented as some believe it is (especially with all the roster changes).

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 01:30 PM
Is the new guy going to take them to the conference finals? Probably not. They had finally developed an identity and now it's gone. These players don't have the balls to realize their own failures. Go look at the key players on this team and look at their production in the playoffs. They have no one to blame but themselves. Callahan has 24 points in 59 playoff games. The lists goes on. Now they get to hide behind the idea that their coach held them back. It's a loser mentality.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 01:34 PM
I would have got a 4.0 in college if I didn't "tune out" my professors. :laugh2: The fact that we as fans accept this **** from a group of players that produce **** in the playoffs is a big joke. They aren't winning ****.

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 01:41 PM
They don't have minimal talent, nor mediocre, but not elite either.
If Boston, Pitt, Chicago, and LA are elite, the Rangers are in the next level below, with Vancouver, Detroit, Washington, San Jose, and St. Louis. Results aside, those are the top 10 teams in the league.

They need to upgrade the forwards. Top-6 needs to produce more goals, and maybe add another winger for secondary scoring, unless you think Hags is that guy, which I personally don't.

Then they need to improve the bottom-6. Need a few more goals there. A player in the mold of Chris Neil or Rich Peverly would be ideal. Someone who plays the traditional 3rd line role, but can pot 12-15 goals.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 01:56 PM
http://qkme.me/3uorx1

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 02:05 PM
http://qkme.me/3uorx1

Nice!

Would agree to an extent. As of now, it's Nash, Step, and Cally. But that group may well grow to include Hags, Brass, and Hags. Jury is out on those three names still. Zuccs too, but I think the lack of size and finishing ability will hurt those two.

Richards may have a bounce back year in him. But who knows if he'll be around.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 02:09 PM
Nice!

Would agree to an extent. As of now, it's Nash, Step, and Cally. But that group may well grow to include Hags, Brass, and Hags. Jury is out on those three names still. Zuccs too, but I think the lack of size and finishing ability will hurt those two.

Richards may have a bounce back year in him. But who knows if he'll be around.

As of now, the only good offensive player I can name is Nash and he sucked donkey balls in the playoffs. Stepan had a career year with him but I can only hope he repeats. Callahan is a really good player but that's because of his two way game. He's good for 25 goals but he's a ****** passer.

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 02:21 PM
I neglected to mention Kreider and Miller, who both have nice offensive ability in their games. Kreider in particular. He could be a 40-goal guy.

Miller I think could be a 25-goal, 60-point player.

Cally is a junk passer, but his 2-way game, leadership, physicality, and that he's a 25-30 goal, 50-60 point guy makes him a top-6.

I think Step is excellent. Very good 2-ways. Can go 20-25 goals, and close to a point-per-game. Brass won't score a ton of goals, but lots of skill and can really make plays and distribute it.

Key is the unproven guys of Kreider, Miller, And to a lesser extent Hags and Zuccs. All those guys have nice offensive ability, it's just a question of what they're gonna produce, how consistently, and will they be liabilities in other areas. Remains to be seen, but a lot of potential for offense there.

I think regardless that they need to find another body for the wing on 2nd or 3rd line that's either gonna score 25, or provide size, grit, and 15 goals.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 02:35 PM
Sather should fire Ken Gernander because Miller and Kreider didn't do **** in the minors, either.

In all seriousness, Miller and Kreider are nice prospects but being a good skater doesn't necessarily correlate to offense.

The Ranger's big gun is Rick Nash and he's been outside of the top 30 in points more than he's been in it over the course of his career. 2013-14 Rangers: Let's open it up!!!

metswon69
06-02-2013, 03:26 PM
So if the Rangers have minimal talent and are what their record says they are, who cares if the coach lost part of the locker room? IMO, Torts is the scapegoat as this roster isn't nearly as talented as some believe it is (especially with all the roster changes).

From the article it seemed like he lost more than "part" of the locker room and more specifically the Rangers best player. This team was dead in the water before that trade and was in jeopardy of not making the playoffs. Don't you think a portion of that came from the players tuning out Torts?


The Rangers players had had enough of the coach and they said so during their exit meetings on Monday. Sources have confirmed Sather had no intention of dismissing Tortorella in the wake of the team’s second-round elimination by the Bruins until a critical mass of players informed the GM that the coach’s overbearing personality had become a roadblock to success.

You can't convince me the Rangers PP is this bad and that having a more offensive system can't make them better at putting the puck in the net. Whether its a better offensive system or just having a coach that players respond to better, i think it will certainly make a difference.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 03:40 PM
From the article it seemed like he lost more than "part" of the locker room and more specifically the Rangers best player. This team was dead in the water before that trade and was in jeopardy of not making the playoffs. Don't you think a portion of that came from the players tuning out Torts?

You can't convince me the Rangers PP is this bad and that having a more offensive system can't make them better at putting the puck in the net. Whether its a better offensive system or just having a coach that players respond to better, i think it will certainly make a difference.

I agree with you. If you go back to threads even in the first month of the season you will see posts from me saying there is something really wrong with what I'm seeing. That it was not about talent. I could see it on the players faces. They did not believe in what they were doing or show confidence in the system. These guys have dreamed of being NHL players all their lives. They are naturally born competitors. For them to put such low effort in to some games showed me very soon that there was a major problem. I believe the team may have played better in the regular season and in the playoffs if they coached themselves. Ditto for the PP may have been better if they coached it themselves.

Relationships on and off the ice are tough. Sometimes things which on their one can be overlooked build up over years to the point where something small can break the camels back. I think that is what happened here. I think 2-3 years of resentment was built up and then after the season ended the players just told Slats that is enough. We need a change.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 04:01 PM
From the article it seemed like he lost more than "part" of the locker room and more specifically the Rangers best player. This team was dead in the water before that trade and was in jeopardy of not making the playoffs. Don't you think a portion of that came from the players tuning out Torts?

.

Name the roster changes from the end of last season to the end of this season. Torts is the scapegoat and now that we know both Cally and Hagelin had torn labrums (along with no Staal or Clowe out). The decision is even a bigger joke.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 04:08 PM
I agree with you. If you go back to threads even in the first month of the season you will see posts from me saying there is something really wrong with what I'm seeing. That it was not about talent. I could see it on the players faces. They did not believe in what they were doing or show confidence in the system. These guys have dreamed of being NHL players all their lives. They are naturally born competitors. For them to put such low effort in to some games showed me very soon that there was a major problem. I believe the team may have played better in the regular season and in the playoffs if they coached themselves. Ditto for the PP may have been better if they coached it themselves.

Relationships on and off the ice are tough. Sometimes things which on their one can be overlooked build up over years to the point where something small can break the camels back. I think that is what happened here. I think 2-3 years of resentment was built up and then after the season ended the players just told Slats that is enough. We need a change.

2-3 years of resentment. You gotta be kidding me. They came into this season after winning the east the year before. :laugh2:

I would LOVE to hear when exactly the players tuned him out. They got off to a ****** start? Did they tune him out during the lockout? Did they tune him out after they finished the season strong? Did they tune him out after coming back in the Washington series? Or did they "tune him out" when they lost to Boston and ran ou tof excuses?

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 04:09 PM
Name the roster changes from the end of last season to the end of this season. Torts is the scapegoat and now that we know both Cally and Hagelin had torn labrums (along with no Staal or Clowe out). The decision is even a bigger joke.

Tortorella's the reason why it took Kreider so long to be a ppg player at the college level. Completely suffocates offense.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 04:12 PM
Name the roster changes from the end of last season to the end of this season. Torts is the scapegoat and now that we know both Cally and Hagelin had torn labrums (along with no Staal or Clowe out). The decision is even a bigger joke.

That's your opinion. I can see you like the no nonsense type of coaches but i hate to break it to you, a lot of players don't. Players don't like being called out in the media, having their ice time significantly curtailed because of one bad shift, and the constant barrage of ******** Torts threw around.

When you lose Hank you know there is a problem because Hank was one of Tort's most vocal supporters in the beginning. A "critical mass of players" seems to suggest the team's best players had gotten tired of Torts. Look i am not suggesting Slats isn't part of the problem (because he is) and neither am i suggesting that they will become the Chicago Blackhawks offensively when they dump Torts but this offense has to be better if they want to do more than just get into the playoffs.

Winning these 1-0, 2-1 grind it out hockey games caught up to them. It's always about Hank clinging to a 1 goal lead and honestly i am sure he was sick of it as well, that probably played into being non committal about re-signing.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 04:19 PM
That's your opinion. I can see you like the no nonsense type of coaches but i hate to break it to you, a lot of players don't. Players don't like being called out in the media, having their ice time significantly curtailed because of one bad shift, and the constant barrage of ******** Torts threw around.

When you lose Hank you know there is a problem because Hank was one of Tort's most vocal supporters in the beginning. A "critical mass of players" seems to suggest the team's best players had gotten tired of Torts. Look i am not suggesting Slats isn't part of the problem (because he is) and neither am i suggesting that they will become the Chicago Blackhawks offensively when they dump Torts but this offense has to be better if they want to do more than just get into the playoffs.

Winning these 1-0, 2-1 grindout hockey games caught up to them. It's always about Hank clinging to a 1 goal lead and honestly i am sure he was sick of it as well.

I can tell you have ignored the roster changes. Funny how the coaches style practically won the President's trophy last year and suddenly a lesser roster needs to be coddled b/c they aren't as talented. The coach is the scapegoat

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 04:21 PM
Tortorella's the reason why it took Kreider so long to be a ppg player at the college level. Completely suffocates offense.

It's Tort's fault Kreider struggled in Hartford too.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 04:23 PM
It's Tort's fault Kreider struggled in Hartford too.

He's the reason why Nash didn't do dick in the playoffs, too. How can Nash produce when he knows that Torts was mean to Sam Rosen that one time?

metswon69
06-02-2013, 04:24 PM
I can tell you have ignored the roster changes. Funny how the coaches style practically won the President's trophy last year and suddenly a lesser roster needs to be coddled b/c they aren't as talented. The coach is the scapegoat

I didn't ignore the roster changes. They sacrificed some of their defensive style for offense, which i am sure came from the COACH as well. Torts i am sure was part of the decision to bring in Nash and he knew subsequently they would lose guys like Anisimov, Fedetenko, Prust, Dubi etc etc because of the salary cap. Obviously even Tortorella realized this team needed more offense to compete.

They were supposed to be better offensively with Nash, Richards, and Gaborik to start the season. What does Torts get a pass there too? At one point in the season this team had the worst GPG in hockey with those 3 players mentioned.

Do none of their offensive and PP woes fall on Tortorella?

And just because you keep saying he's a scapegoat doesn't make him one.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 04:29 PM
2-3 years of resentment. You gotta be kidding me. They came into this season after winning the east the year before. :laugh2:

I would LOVE to hear when exactly the players tuned him out. They got off to a ****** start? Did they tune him out during the lockout? Did they tune him out after they finished the season strong? Did they tune him out after coming back in the Washington series? Or did they "tune him out" when they lost to Boston and ran ou tof excuses?

I'm not kidding at all. Sometimes teams succeed despite building resentments. That is what the book the Bronx Zoo was all about. The Yankees winning the World Series despite huge ego power struggles on the team in 1977. They could have been building resentments for the last 4 years and finally enough was enough. Sometimes the last straw that breaks the camels back is the lightest straw.

The players also could have won last season in spite of the coach not because of him. It is pretty ironic that you keep giving the former coach all the credit for everything positive but the players all the blame for anything negative.

Gabs scores 40 is because of Torts but when Gabs and others Rangers cant score it is on the players.

The team wins games and playoff series it is because of Torts but when the team does not win its on the players.

If the players on this team are so bad why did Torts say we should compete for a cup before this season?

The guy wore out his welcome. That is not unusual for coaches. He probably could have been fired earlier in the season if Avery did not save his job with his tweet. I think the players on this team know how the coach treats them 10000000 times better than you or I do.

Torts was a great coach who had an awesome break out system, a great PP system, and treated everybody with respect is a statement I have not seen any players or people in the media make.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 04:33 PM
I'm not kidding at all. Sometimes teams succeed despite building resentments. That is what the book the Bronx Zoo was all about. The Yankees winning the World Series despite huge ego power struggles on the team in 1977. They could have been building resentments for the last 4 years and finally enough was enough. Sometimes the last straw that breaks the camels back is the lightest straw.

The players also could have won last season in spite of the coach not because of him. It is pretty ironic that you keep giving the former coach all the credit for everything positive but the players all the blame for anything negative.

Gabs scores 40 is because of Torts but when Gabs and others Rangers cant score it is on the players.

The team wins games and playoff series it is because of Torts but when the team does not win its on the players.

If the team was so bad why did Torts say we should compete for a cup before this season?

The guy wore out his welcome. That is not unusual for coaches. He probably could have been fired earlier in the season if Avery did not save his job with his tweet. I think the players on this team know how the coach treats them 10000000 times better than you or I do.

Torts was a great coach who had an awesome break out system, a great PP system, and treated everybody with respect is a statement I have not seen any players or people in the media make.

I don't give Torts credit for Marian's 40 goals. I bring it up to discredit this bs myth about Marian not being able to produce in Tort's "system".

I don't expect players to say good things about him days after selling him out...

You're probably right though, the players blocked shots all the way to the #1 seed and it was all in spite.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 04:34 PM
And just because you keep saying he's a scapegoat doesn't make him one.

Just b/c you say he lost the locker room (which was drastically changed from fa, trades and injuries during a strike shortened season) doesn't mean he did.

Oh, and besides passing the biscuit to Jagr, the Rangers PP has been clueless for years.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 04:39 PM
Just b/c you say he lost the locker room (which was drastically changed from fa, trades and injuries during a strike shortened season) doesn't mean he did.

Oh, and besides passing the biscuit to Jagr, the Rangers PP has been clueless for years.

The reports certainly indicate he did. That's more than you have for your argument whether you believe it's an excuse or not.

I noticed you didn't address having those 3 players and their offense being the worst in the league but i am sure Gabs and Richards having their worst offensive seasons since joining the league is all on those players too right?

Not that Tortorella has had problems with offense, the PP, and players getting tired of his shtick since he's been here or anything though? :rolleyes:

There is culpability on both ends but to suggest it's all on the players is ludicrous imo.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 04:45 PM
I don't give Torts credit for Marian's 40 goals. I bring it up to discredit this bs myth about Marian not being able to produce in Tort's "system".

I don't expect players to say good things about him days after selling him out...

You're probably right though, the players blocked shots all the way to the #1 seed and it was all in spite.


The players played hard last season because they are competitors and they were motivated. They may have been motivated by the coach or they may have been self motivated. In either case they decided that a change was needed at coach after this season. They know the situation better than I do. They know the situation better than you do. We are not in the locker room. We are not there during practices. The players are there. I have never looked at this team and seen a bunch of trouble makers. You do not like their decision. I feel like it was the best move for the team.

fingerbang
06-02-2013, 04:51 PM
The players played hard last season because they are competitors and they were motivated. They may have been motivated by the coach or they may have been self motivated. In either case they decided that a change was needed at coach after this season. They know the situation better than I do. They know the situation better than you do. We are not in the locker room. We are not there during practices. The players are there. I have never looked at this team and seen a bunch of trouble makers. You do not like their decision. I feel like it was the best move for the team.

I don't see trouble makers either. I just see a group of players that aren't mentally tough enough to meet unreasonable expectations.

If Hank really sold Torts out he's a moron. The "system" turned one of the best goalies in the league into THE BEST goalie in the league and a potential hall of famer. If he was playing for a run and gun coach he'd be getting shelled.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 05:12 PM
The reports certainly indicate he did. That's more than you have for your argument whether you believe it's an excuse or not.

I noticed you didn't address having those 3 players and their offense being the worst in the league but i am sure Gabs and Richards having their worst offensive seasons since joining the league is all on those players too right?

Not that Tortorella has had problems with offense, the PP, and players getting tired of his shtick since he's been here or anything though? :rolleyes:

There is culpability on both ends but to suggest it's all on the players is ludicrous imo.


Gabby flooded the net under Torts. Richards was awful. Nash lost the battles and was shut down.

Those who beleive the locker room was lost, b/c some paparazzi hack writer hinted about it, name a team who battles back to make the playoffs and wins a series after trailing when the coach lost the room. Teams quit when the coach loses the room and this team never quit. They simply weren't talented enough.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 05:44 PM
Gabby flooded the net under Torts. Richards was awful. Nash lost the battles and was shut down.

Those who beleive the locker room was lost, b/c some paparazzi hack writer hinted about it, name a team who battles back to make the playoffs and wins a series after trailing when the coach lost the room. Teams quit when the coach loses the room and this team never quit. They simply weren't talented enough.

Oh so it's a hack writer when "a critical mass of the locker room" wanted Torts out? Not that it could be true or anything? That it automatically has to be dissent from the New York media on a coach they didn't like or some kind of fabrication to get people to believe that was the real reason behind his firing when you think it wasn't.

Come on really?

It was obvious in their play through the first 36 games that they were limp and dead. That first incarnation of the team should have been better than 17-15-3 and their lack of response to the coach was pretty evident. Gabs had 9 goals, Richards was awful, and they were basically carried by Hank, Stepan, and Nash throughout most of that portion of the season.

It took bringing in 3 guys who were essential to that late run to turn a lot of it around. That said, even with that aforementioned late run, they still almost missed the playoffs.

NYY09
06-02-2013, 05:46 PM
Last years "success" really only masks possible problems if you factor in the prior year and the current one and give it perspective. The year before last the team barely made the playoffs, same goes for the year before (if i remember correctly) and the same problem this year.

Look, last year was nice but its clearly an outlier. Something that one can attribute luck, top players performing as such (Cally netted 30 and Gabs 40 with Richards playing more like himself) and a Vezina goalie, so yeah, last year was a year of great convergences and it kind of showed what the limits were of the team when almost everything went well; and it still fell short.

Changes were made, team had no identity, clearly couldnt be the same as last years and they had to fix it on the fly where odds arent in your favor. Shortened season, added pressure that brings added frustrations and so on... Mix in injuries and top guys playing like bottom ones and yeah, no **** the season was doomed. Watching them play many a night like they could care less and you knew something wasn't right, and that crap showed up fairly early too....

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 06:18 PM
It was obvious in their play through the first 36 games that they were limp and dead. That first incarnation of the team should have been better than 17-15-3 and their lack of response to the coach was pretty evident. Gabs had 9 goals, Richards was awful, and they were basically carried by Hank, Stepan, and Nash throughout most of that portion of the season.

It took bringing in 3 guys who were essential to that late run to turn a lot of it around. That said, even with that aforementioned late run they almost missed the playoffs.


Yeah, they weren't that good after losing all that grit in free agency and the Nash trade. They brought in not three but five guys around the deadline in "Clowe, Brassard, Moore, Zukes and Dorsett. That had no #1 center, no banger on the backline, no offensive defenseman, etc. They aren't that good and anybody thinking a coaching change is the difference doesn't recognize the Bruins roster, let alone the Rangers roster.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 06:22 PM
Yeah, they weren't that good after losing all that grit in free agency and the Nash trade. They brought in not three but five guys around the deadline in "Clowe, Brassard, Moore, Zukes and Dorsett. That had no #1 center, no banger on the backline, no offensive defenseman, etc. They aren't that good and anybody thinking a coaching change is the difference doesn't recognize the Bruins roster, let alone the Rangers roster.

Zukes was a part of the team last season and Dorsett didn't play till the 1st round of the playoffs. I was talking about players on the ice they hadn't had experience with during that regular season run. Stepan certainly played like a #1 center btw this year (44 points in 48 games, +25 rating). He was probably their MVP aside from Henrik.

Again to believe the Rangers can't be better offensively with a more wide open coach makes zero sense to me. They still have 4 good assignment defensemen (if Staal comes back healthy) and an amazing goaltender but their offense and PP need work.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 06:59 PM
Zukes was a part of the team last season and Dorsett didn't play till the 1st round of the playoffs. I was talking about players on the ice they hadn't had experience with during that regular season run this season. Stepan certainly played like a #1 center btw this year (44 points in 48 games, +25 rating). He was probably their MVP aside from Henrik.

Again to believe the Rangers can't be better offensively with a more wide open coach makes zero sense to me. They still have 4 good assignment defensemen (if Staal comes back healthy) and an amazing goaltender but their offense and PP need work.

Where was Richards & Nash come playoff time? While Callahan is driving to the net Nash appeared to have zero ambition in driving to the net. Where was Stepan in the playoffs? Lets' face it, Brassard and Zukes dominated the action in the Caps series.

Speaking of offense, how is it the Rangers were neck and neck in shots with Boston besides game 3 and the coach lost the lock room?

Could the Rangers open it up? Sure, and if anybody ever watched the pre-game skate around it's almost impossible to find a decent shot besides Nash. Maybe Lundy will face 70 shots per night b/c the front 5 aren't blocking shots. Not sure who is capable on skating the puck up with any authority or working the blue line on a PP. Let's allow Darren Turcotte, I mean Carl Hagelin, to skate freely without backchecking. Maybe he can wear figure skates b/c his offensive awareness and shot are comical when not sprinting up ice. Heck, he treats the puck like break pad and slows down to a crawl.

Sure, open it up. The large and fast Penguins just got slammed into the boards by the Bruins so I'm sure the smaller and slower Rangers will prevail. Seriously? They aren't that good.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 07:08 PM
Where was Richards & Nash come playoff time? While Callahan is driving to the net Nash appeared to have zero ambition in driving to the net. Where was Stepan in the playoffs? Lets' face it, Brassard and Zukes dominated the action in the Caps series.

Speaking of offense, how is it the Rangers were neck and neck in shots with Boston besides game 3 and the coach lost the lock room?

Could the Rangers open it up? Sure, and if anybody ever watched the pre-game skate around it's almost impossible to find a decent shot besides Nash. Maybe Lundy will face 70 shots per night b/c the front 5 aren't blocking shots. Not sure who is capable on skating the puck up with any authority or working the blue line on a PP. Let's allow Darren Turcotte, I mean Carl Hagelin, to skate freely without backchecking. Maybe he can wear figure skates b/c his offensive awareness and shot are comical when not sprinting up ice. Heck, he treats the puck like break pad and slows down to a crawl.

Sure, open it up. The large and fast Penguins just got slammed into the boards by the Bruins so I'm sure the smaller and slower Rangers will prevail. Seriously? They aren't that good.

I don't know, how come they couldn't score more than 1 goal in that game or more than 2 goals only once in that entire series? It's always the same **** with the Rangers. They don't score then it's about Lundqvist sitting on a 1 goal lead, being tied into the third period, or the Rangers scrambling down by one. Can you remember the last time the Rangers were down 4-1 or 3-0 and came back? It's been freaking ages it feels like and you can turn the game off most of the time when they are down 3-1 because there is next to zero chance they win that hockey game.

I think you are drastically overstating how much influence Torts has. Del Zotto, Girardi, Staal (when healthy), and McDonagh play quality defense in front of Lundqvist and that isn't going to all of a sudden stop under a new coach. It's not like Lundqvist is going to go from saving 92-93% of shots to barely 90%. His play and their defense will take somewhat of a hit in a new more open system but if it makes them better offensively so be it.

I think you want a system that encourages guys like Stepan, Callahan, Nash, Richards (if he is still here), Kreider, etc etc to be more productive with the puck.

That Penguin/Bruins series is not obviously over btw.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 07:17 PM
The teams playoff scoring was a joke not only this season but last season as well. Last season we did make it to the ECF but lets be realistic we won a first round series in 7 games by a goal. This season we went 7 games again in the first round as well. If Lundy was not one of the best goalies I doubt we win the opening series vs the Sens last season nor the opening series vs the Caps this season. If Rask does not pull some really strange bonehead moves in game 4 we would have been swept by the Bruins.

Torts playoff win/loss record as NY Rangers coach was not good at 18wins-25losses.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 07:33 PM
This is a roundabout hindsight argument anyway. The only way we are going to know whether it benefits them next year is what new personnel are brought in and who coaches this team.

I hope it's Vigneault to be honest.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 07:39 PM
I don't know, how come they couldn't score more than 1 goal in that game or more than 2 goals only once in that entire series? It's always the same **** with the Rangers. They don't score then it's about Lundqvist sitting on a 1 goal lead, being tied into the third period, or the Rangers scrambling down by one. Can you remember the last time the Rangers were down 4-1 or 3-0 and came back? It's been freaking ages it feels like and you can turn the game off most of the time when they are down 3-1 because there is next to zero chance they win that hockey game.

I think you are drastically overstating how much influence Torts has. Del Zotto, Girardi, Staal (when healthy), and McDonagh play quality defense in front of Lundqvist and that isn't going to all of a sudden stop under a new coach. It's not like Lundqvist is going to go from saving 92-93% of shots to barely 90%. His play and their defense will take somewhat of a hit in a new more open system but if it makes them better offensively so be it.

I think you want a system that encourages guys like Stepan, Callahan, Nash, Richards (if he is still here), Kreider, etc etc to be more productive with the puck.

That Penguin/Bruins series is not obviously over btw.

We saw a Rangers team last season which launched 3-4 lines non-stop at opponents, wore them down, and won games. They lost that ability this season. They regained some of it at the deadline.

The defense needs a legit offensive weapon. These are nice defenseman yet none come close to resembling a Mike Green from Washington. Heck, they can't equate multiple players to resemble a Mike Green. None of them skate well up ice, pass on a PP let alone blast a shot. I'm buying that Torts system doesn't allow skaters to skate fast, pass or shoot the puck hard.

Yeah, the Penguins/Bruins series is obviously not over but the Bruins system did push the Rangers around, just pushed the Pens around last night and physically annihilated the wide open Vancouver Canucks to win the Cup two short years ago. They returned 11 out of 12 forwards while the Ranger disassembled many of their lines. Meanwhile, a very slow, finesse Richards did nothing.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 07:42 PM
The teams playoff scoring was a joke not only this season but last season as well. Last season we did make it to the ECF but lets be realistic we won a first round series in 7 games by a goal. This season we went 7 games again in the first round as well. If Lundy was not one of the best goalies I doubt we win the opening series vs the Sens last season nor the opening series vs the Caps this season. If Rask does not pull some really strange bonehead moves in game 4 we would have been swept by the Bruins.

Torts playoff win/loss record as NY Rangers coach was not good at 18wins-25losses.

The Rangers missed the playoffs for half of Brian Leetch's career. Let's not get hung up on Torts record when the team itself missed the playoffs about 50% of the time over the past 20 years.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 08:05 PM
We saw a Rangers team last season which launched 3-4 lines non-stop at opponents, wore them down, and won games. They lost that ability this season. They regained some of it at the deadline.

The defense needs a legit offensive weapon. These are nice defenseman yet none come close to resembling a Mike Green from Washington. Heck, they can't equate multiple players to resemble a Mike Green. None of them skate well up ice, pass on a PP let alone blast a shot. I'm buying that Torts system doesn't allow skaters to skate fast, pass or shoot the puck hard.

Yeah, the Penguins/Bruins series is obviously not over but the Bruins system did push the Rangers around, just pushed the Pens around last night and physically annihilated the wide open Vancouver Canucks to win the Cup two short years ago. They returned 11 out of 12 forwards while the Ranger disassembled many of their lines. Meanwhile, a very slow, finesse Richards did nothing.

I agree they need personnel change as well. We've been screaming for an offensive defensemen for how many years now? I want a guy who can handle the PP from the point or at least have a booming shot to get the guys in front more active. I also still think they need more offensive depth. Those last 2 lines are abysmal offensively since trading off Dubi, Anisimov, etc etc but coaching can fix some of that. There is no need for this team to continually be among the bottom ranked teams in the league on the PP.

I am also hoping McIlrath can be that pounding presence defensively that they need (they still rely too much on their top 2 pair). McIlrath and Moore should change some of that next year. I also think they need to incorporate some of these young guys offensively to see if they are worth playing every game. Not with the retreads like Haley, Newbury, Bickel, Eminger (who were both playing 4th line wing), Mitchell, Ferriero, Segal, etc etc they have played this year and in previous seasons.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 08:21 PM
The Rangers missed the playoffs for half of Brian Leetch's career. Let's not get hung up on Torts record when the team itself missed the playoffs about 50% of the time over the past 20 years.

What the team did 10 years ago never mind 20 years ago is not very relevant. Those were clearly much different teams. The team Torts took over from Tom Renney had made the playoffs every season since the lockout. In fact the only season we did not make the playoffs since the lockout was under Torts.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 08:58 PM
What the team did 10 years ago never mind 20 years ago is not very relevant. Those were clearly much different teams. The team Torts took over from Tom Renney had made the playoffs every season since the lockout. In fact the only season we did not make the playoffs since the lockout was under Torts.

then a losing playoff record with a team with minimal talent shouldn't even be mentioned considering this roster.

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 09:20 PM
Their aren't 10 defensemen in the league like Mike Green offensively. However, I don't think McDonagh or Del Zotto has reached their height offensively. Torts style limited them. Particularly McD. Staal is better offensively than he's shown, Girardi has had a 10-goal season previously, and Moore is still a kid very much developing who was drafted for his skating and offense.

The group of defensemen are a strength, and represent one of the top-5 corps of defensemen in the league. 2 are already all-stars, and McD and MDZ may one day get there. There is offense there. That group shouldn't be broken up.

nyr2002nyr
06-02-2013, 09:33 PM
What the team did 10 years ago never mind 20 years ago is not very relevant. Those were clearly much different teams. The team Torts took over from Tom Renney had made the playoffs every season since the lockout. In fact the only season we did not make the playoffs since the lockout was under Torts.

He has a bromance with torts is all I can guess at this point.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 10:09 PM
He has a bromance with torts is all I can guess at this point.

It's more like a veteran hockey fan that recognizes what talent is and isn't both at the NHL level and in the minors. I'll try teaching you what you can't seem to recognize. ;)

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 10:14 PM
Their aren't 10 defensemen in the league like Mike Green offensively. However, I don't think McDonagh or Del Zotto has reached their height offensively. Torts style limited them. Particularly McD. Staal is better offensively than he's shown, Girardi has had a 10-goal season previously, and Moore is still a kid very much developing who was drafted for his skating and offense.

The group of defensemen are a strength, and represent one of the top-5 corps of defensemen in the league. 2 are already all-stars, and McD and MDZ may one day get there. There is offense there. That group shouldn't be broken up.

None can skate, shoot or pass even remotely close to Zubov nor can any put a player into the boards like Beukeboom. Staal is a poor man's Beukeboom while the rest are all a poor man's Kevin Lowe. I like McD but the rest have youth on their sides while I don't see a ton of upside. The group needs a legit scorer/skater and a banger. Love McIlrath but we will see how he develops and I still have my eyes on Mr. Norneau.

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 10:37 PM
None can skate, shoot or pass even remotely close to Zubov nor can any put a player into the boards like Beukeboom. Staal is a poor man's Beukeboom while the rest are all a poor man's Kevin Lowe. I like McD but the rest have youth on their sides while I don't see a ton of upside. The group needs a legit scorer/skater and a banger. Love McIlrath but we will see how he develops and I still have my eyes on Mr. Norneau.

No, there's no huge body like Beukeboom, and no huge shot, I'll give you that.
Careful comparing guys to Zubov though. It's unfair- Zubov may be a HOF'r one day. But Staal is a way better than Beuks was. And Beuks was a 1st round pick when he was drafted and played a long time. There is skill back there. Staal and MDZ are very good skaters, the latter with nice offensive ability, and McD and Moore are excellent skaters who have yet to really reach their ceiling. Best hockey still in front of those two.

Staal is an all-star. Beuks was never in that class.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 10:41 PM
No, there's no huge body like Beukeboom, and no huge shot, I'll give you that.
Careful comparing guys to Zubov though. It's unfair- Zubov may be a HOF'r one day. But Staal is a way better than Beuks was. And Beuks was a 1st round pick when he was drafted and played a long time. There is skill back there. Staal and MDZ are very good skaters, the latter with nice offensive ability, and McD and Moore are excellent skaters.

Staal is an all-star. Beuks was never in that class.

This..

Bruisers are all well and good but give me the defensemen that are also smart, good with the backcheck, pick their spots to hit, and play good assignment hockey.

I don't know where none of their defensemen can't skate comes from either.

fingerbang
06-03-2013, 12:41 AM
It's not just a booming shot, they need a player than can get pucks through traffic and hit the net consistently. A good point man can get 200 shots on net in season. Someone on the Rangers has to step up and be that guy or they have to go get one. The Rangers have no choice but to run the power play through a defenseman because they really don't have skilled passers down low. On top of that, Rick Nash didn't really snipe corners.

I get that people want Brian Leetch to coach the power play but we have to remember that Brian Leetch was really ****ing good and could do things with the puck that these players can't.

metswon69
06-03-2013, 03:03 AM
It's not just a booming shot, they need a player than can get pucks through traffic and hit the net consistently. A good point man can get 200 shots on net in season. Someone on the Rangers has to step up and be that guy or they have to go get one. The Rangers have no choice but to run the power play through a defenseman because they really don't have skilled passers down low. On top of that, Rick Nash didn't really snipe corners.

Well the Rangers seem to pass up on guys like that. The last guy i remember they tried that with was McCabe and he wasn't particularly good when they brought him here. I even thought a guy like Sheldon Souray would have been an upgrade this past offseason. He could provided a quality shot from the point on the PP.

But expecting a Mike Green like NYSports is mentioning is obviously unrealistic when talking about the guys we have.

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 05:01 AM
No, there's no huge body like Beukeboom, and no huge shot, I'll give you that.
Careful comparing guys to Zubov though. It's unfair- Zubov may be a HOF'r one day. But Staal is a way better than Beuks was. And Beuks was a 1st round pick when he was drafted and played a long time. There is skill back there. Staal and MDZ are very good skaters, the latter with nice offensive ability, and McD and Moore are excellent skaters who have yet to really reach their ceiling. Best hockey still in front of those two.

Staal is an all-star. Beuks was never in that class.

The backline has skill. Losing Sauer, Erixon and Staal for long periods has lessened an otherwise deep pool of talent. Talent which appeared/appears to be loaded with 2nd line defenseman.

Now, Zubov might be a HOF player but, like I said
None can skate, shoot or pass even remotely close to Zubov We talk about how these guys are pretty good offensively yet a system held them back. I say, "wait", who is "remotely" close to Zubov? I don't see any speed, agility to navigate through opponents, thread the needle on a pass, QB the PP or launch a rocket. None of these guys need to be Zubov but when none of them have a equal or close to equal attribute, I'm not sure how we can consider any of them "pretty good offensively". McD is good yet I'm shocked DelZotto's offensive abilities are so mediocre.

As far as Staal. He might be an all-star but none of these opponents skate into the Rangers end with their heads up like when Beukeboom played on the Rangers first line of defense.

Maybe Dylan will provide a bit of what's missing. Love the kid yet wondering where his ceiling is. Hoping for a rich man's Ken Daneyko with Norneau being the same. His lack of balance during some of his latest fights does concern me. Is he legit or just a kid who was always bigger than the other guy? Love him but a bit concerned.

fingerbang
06-03-2013, 10:31 AM
Well the Rangers seem to pass up on guys like that. The last guy i remember they tried that with was McCabe and he wasn't particularly good when they brought him here. I even thought a guy like Sheldon Souray would have been an upgrade this past offseason. He could provided a quality shot from the point on the PP.

But expecting a Mike Green like NYSports is mentioning is obviously unrealistic when talking about the guys we have.

McCabe's career was over when he joined the Rangers. He didn't find any work after his time here. MDZ was supposed to step up and be our guy but he's failed offensively.

I don't "expect" Mike Green, but I expect somebody decent on the blueline. Just look at our own division

Pens have Letang
Islanders have Streit and Visnovsky
Devils play Kovalchuk and Zidlicky
Flyers play Giroux and Timmonen

We play Dan Girardi, MDZ, and Richards and they've all been stinking it up. The Rangers can barely string more than 2 or 3 passes together before making a bad one and turning it over.

nyr1980
06-03-2013, 11:45 AM
Power play has issues. But I don't think it's lack of talent. These guys haven't been properly coached for sure, so that's where it needs to start.

Again, not a roster that is "elite" talent wise. But not mediocre either. Raw materials are there for them to be better offensively and on the power play, provided you bring in a coaching staff that can get that out of them. Roster is far from a mess. One or two of the right additions up front and they're potentially very deep and dangerous, provided the right coach is selected and the younger guys are able to develop.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-03-2013, 11:53 AM
LOL as crazy as it sounds a good college team might score more powerplay goals than 2 in 35 tries or whatever the stat was at one point. :)

nyr2002nyr
06-03-2013, 11:56 AM
It's more like a veteran hockey fan that recognizes what talent is and isn't both at the NHL level and in the minors. I'll try teaching you what you can't seem to recognize. ;)

But oddly enough you are the only one who is on that side of the fence .

nyr1980
06-03-2013, 11:59 AM
Agreed Sly. Honestly, if you look at their offensive struggles, the majority of the "missing" goals are from the PP. Fix that, and their in much better shape.

nyr2002nyr
06-03-2013, 12:03 PM
No, there's no huge body like Beukeboom, and no huge shot, I'll give you that.
Careful comparing guys to Zubov though. It's unfair- Zubov may be a HOF'r one day. But Staal is a way better than Beuks was. And Beuks was a 1st round pick when he was drafted and played a long time. There is skill back there. Staal and MDZ are very good skaters, the latter with nice offensive ability, and McD and Moore are excellent skaters who have yet to really reach their ceiling. Best hockey still in front of those two.

Staal is an all-star. Beuks was never in that class.


We need to stop comparing the current team to that of one from 20 years ago. The game has changed a ton

fingerbang
06-03-2013, 12:23 PM
Power play has issues. But I don't think it's lack of talent. These guys haven't been properly coached for sure, so that's where it needs to start.

Again, not a roster that is "elite" talent wise. But not mediocre either. Raw materials are there for them to be better offensively and on the power play, provided you bring in a coaching staff that can get that out of them. Roster is far from a mess. One or two of the right additions up front and they're potentially very deep and dangerous, provided the right coach is selected and the younger guys are able to develop.

The power play has below average talent of it. No doubt about it. All you have to do is look around the league and see what other teams have. I said this once before and 'll say it again, Rick Nash is the only big gun on this team and he's been outside of the top 30 in points more than he's been in it over the course of his career. Furthermore, he excels on the rush, not when he's stationary.

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 12:31 PM
But oddly enough you are the only one who is on that side of the fence .

If you believe the few who post on this site is a microcosm of the fan base . . . .

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 12:33 PM
We need to stop comparing the current team to that of one from 20 years ago. The game has changed a ton

Then how did the Bruins win the cup two years ago while the Kings had a miserable PP?

SLY WILLIAMS
06-03-2013, 12:47 PM
If you believe the few who post on this site is a microcosm of the fan base . . . .

71% of fans in a NY Daily News poll said the coach should be fired before he was fired. That is a much larger reflection of the fan base than this board.

More important than the fans on this board or in the poll apparently the players agreed. The players know what goes on behind the scenes. Us fans do not.

bsi
06-03-2013, 12:48 PM
So basically what I'm reading is some people saying "we have no skill" and others "Our coach won't properly use our high skilled players" and you know what? You can debate this all you want but we won't know the answer until the next coach gets a season in. Unfortunately I think we got rid of some players that maybe didn't need gettin rid of, but on the plus side we got younger so I guess what I'm tryin to say is that we're gonna have to sit back and see how it goes the next couple years. Tortorella has enough time to make a cup champ out of this team and he had the full support of the GM, the next coach will have to be given the same time frame before he's deemed a success or failure.

fingerbang
06-03-2013, 12:50 PM
In his last two seasons in Columbus, Nash failed to score more than 20 power play points.

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 02:40 PM
71% of fans in a NY Daily News poll said the coach should be fired before he was fired. That is a much larger reflection of the fan base than this board.



And 100% of the media called it a surprise move. The fickle fans would jump on any bandwagon yet likely wouldn't recognize a puck if it hit them in the head.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-03-2013, 03:08 PM
And 100% of the media called it a surprise move. The fickle fans would jump on any bandwagon yet likely wouldn't recognize a puck if it hit them in the head.

You keep moving the goal posts. You said that we do not represent the fan base so I showed you a greater percentage of the fan base. You did not mention the media. Why would the media matter in regards to what Rangers fans believe about the change?

The media did not expect it because Slats did not give any clue it was coming and Torts had signed an extension. The media also did not know at that point the players were going to tell management a change needed to be made although some in the media did allude to it after Lundys comments.

nyr1980
06-03-2013, 03:16 PM
The move was a surprise due to the revelation that Torts had lost at least a portion of the room. Though their were indicators of this, no comments surfaced in season. It was kept quiet, which says that the players were at least professional about it.

nyr2002nyr
06-03-2013, 03:19 PM
You keep moving the goal posts. You said that we do not represent the fan base so I showed you a greater percentage of the fan base. You did not mention the media. Why would the media matter in regards to what Rangers fans believe about the change?

The media did not expect it because Slats did not give any clue it was coming and Torts had signed an extension. The media also did not know at that point the players were going to tell management a change needed to be made although some in the media did allude to it after Lundys comments.

He changes the criteria with each post going back a week

metswon69
06-03-2013, 03:28 PM
The move was a surprise due to the revelation that Torts had lost at least a portion of the room. Though their were indicators of this, no comments surfaced in season. It was kept quiet, which says that the players were at least professional about it.

This.

But i remember hearing on WFAN, Ranger fans calling in having said Torts lost the room. It wasn't some kind of shocker and a lot of us on this board we're talking about it too. This team was just going through the motions at times. They couldn't sustain any consistent success, they would lose to teams like the last place Florida Panthers after winning 2 or 3 games in a row.

Every time we thought they were going to gain some momentum, it was quickly shot down until they made those trades.

nyr1980
06-03-2013, 04:48 PM
This.

But i remember hearing on WFAN, Ranger fans calling in having said Torts lost the room. It wasn't some kind of shocker and a lot of us on this board we're talking about it too. This team was just going through the motions at times. They couldn't sustain any consistent success, they would lose to teams like the last place Florida Panthers after winning 2 or 3 games in a row.

Every time we thought they were going to gain some momentum, it was quickly shot down until they made those trades.

I missed that. I Live in Michigan. But you're right. Indicators were there. It was kept quiet as far as the media and out of the room.

He ran his course. Bottom line. Now we know why.

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 06:11 PM
You keep moving the goal posts. You said that we do not represent the fan base so I showed you a greater percentage of the fan base. You did not mention the media. Why would the media matter in regards to what Rangers fans believe about the change?



Did you hear Francesa shut down the phones today b/c the fans/callers were so lost? This move was idiotic

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 06:13 PM
This.

But i remember hearing on WFAN, Ranger fans calling in having said Torts lost the room. It wasn't some kind of shocker and a lot of us on this board we're talking about it too. This team was just going through the motions at times. They couldn't sustain any consistent success, they would lose to teams like the last place Florida Panthers after winning 2 or 3 games in a row.

Every time we thought they were going to gain some momentum, it was quickly shot down until they made those trades.

They weren't successful b/c they weren't that good. I guess you need to follow hockey for a long while to recognize what's missing and it wasn't the coach.

metswon69
06-03-2013, 07:26 PM
They weren't successful b/c they weren't that good. I guess you need to follow hockey for a long while to recognize what's missing and it wasn't the coach.

They had depth issues but there was something more to the fact that they were 17-15-3 when they made that trade.

My opinion as it is of others on this board was the system had something to do with it and more likely the lack of response to the coach.

I am not saying they were a 2 or 3 seed but they shouldn't have been on the outside of the playoffs looking in before they made that trade.

nyr2002nyr
06-03-2013, 09:24 PM
Did you hear Francesa shut down the phones today b/c the fans/callers were so lost? This move was idiotic


Not as idiotic as you defending him at this point man.

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 09:36 PM
Not as idiotic as you defending him at this point man.

You must be young if you believe this team is talented and the coach deserved to be replaced.

nyr2002nyr
06-03-2013, 10:19 PM
You must be young if you believe this team is talented and the coach deserved to be replaced.

As par for the course you are wrong again. I liked torts and again not all the blame should fall on him. Slats seems to never take any no matter what happens and it's total crap. But a changed was needed. If they didn't I would have been "OK" with it as well but what's done is done man. All we can do is go forward

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 10:53 PM
As par for the course you are wrong again. I liked torts and again not all the blame should fall on him. Slats seems to never take any no matter what happens and it's total crap. But a changed was needed. If they didn't I would have been "OK" with it as well but what's done is done man. All we can do is go forward

The only one who took the blame was the coach in case you missed it. His roster was stripped during a strike shortened season. With games practically every other night, what new system did any coach implement? Oh, and he won a playoff series while losing to the Bruins who just manhandled the Penguins. Had Torts lost the locker room, the team wouldn't have battled back against Washington.

metswon69
06-03-2013, 11:59 PM
^^^ Could have just been that the team assembled after the deadline was better than Washington too.

The Caps are choke artists in the playoffs even with all that offensive talent they have.

nyr2002nyr
06-04-2013, 12:29 AM
The only one who took the blame was the coach in case you missed it. His roster was stripped during a strike shortened season. With games practically every other night, what new system did any coach implement? Oh, and he won a playoff series while losing to the Bruins who just manhandled the Penguins. Had Torts lost the locker room, the team wouldn't have battled back against Washington.

He lost the locker room because the locker room itself said so

Don't think for one minute slats made that trade without torts having say in it.

They battle back and tried because they are pro. But they obviously had enough of his act As did the fans,media and FO man.

nyr1980
06-04-2013, 12:37 AM
Torts molded the team around what he inherited:

1) An elite goalie.
2) A good group of defensemen that only got better as guys like MDZ and McD came along.
3) Not much offense up front.

However, the roster evolved and changed, and he didn't. His personnel moved away from that and he didn't accommodate it, and in the process, his style and personality just got old for the guys on the team. That's really all.

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 09:09 AM
He lost the locker room because the locker room itself said so

Don't think for one minute slats made that trade without torts having say in it.

They battle back and tried because they are pro. But they obviously had enough of his act As did the fans,media and FO man.

(of course, the NY fans and media have been right the dozen times Coughlin lost the Giants, right?) :rolleyes:

That's such B.S. The team, with little playoff experience, almost won the President's trophy and lost to a veteran Devils team in the conference finals. During a strike shortened season, the first place team was disassembled. Without a camp and new faces, how the heck can any coach or GM determine what they have? They can't and it was quite obvious the Rangers lost the play on the boards non-stop despite some nice stats from Nash and Stephan. Moving forward, they added 5 new faces to a lineup so they could make the playoffs and defeated the hottest team in the NHL after trailing 0-2 in the series. That's not losing the locker room.

With so many new faces and games practically every other night, what coach has the time to implement anything new let along understand what type of roster he has? Torts is the scape goat and the players haven't been together long enough to make any accusations b/c they lost to a Bruins team that is annihilating the Penguins.

Any coach that lost a locker room would see his team collapse, not make the playoffs and not come back from 0-2 deficit to the hottest team in the NHL. That's not a lost locker room as much as a few NHL players, whom all sound like they are attending a funeral when eliminated any year, and some fans jumping to conclusions which don't make any sense in the first place. The ONLY way to determine the capabilities of this roster is to get a new coach and put the same team on the ice. Otherwise, if changes occur, the fans and the players should shut up b/c the coach (and almost any coach) knows more than the fans and players despite the bandwagon of guesswork b/c a team, which isn't as talented as the Bruins, lost.

nyr2002nyr
06-04-2013, 09:27 AM
(of course, the NY fans and media have been right the dozen times Coughlin lost the Giants, right?) :rolleyes:

That's such B.S. The team, with little playoff experience, almost won the President's trophy and lost to a veteran Devils team in the conference finals. During a strike shortened season, the first place team was disassembled. Without a camp and new faces, how the heck can any coach or GM determine what they have? They can't and it was quite obvious the Rangers lost the play on the boards non-stop despite some nice stats from Nash and Stephan. Moving forward, they added 5 new faces to a lineup so they could make the playoffs and defeated the hottest team in the NHL after trailing 0-2 in the series. That's not losing the locker room.

With so many new faces and games practically every other night, what coach has the time to implement anything new let along understand what type of roster he has? Torts is the scape goat and the players haven't been together long enough to make any accusations b/c they lost to a Bruins team that is annihilating the Penguins.

Any coach that lost a locker room would see his team collapse, not make the playoffs and not come back from 0-2 deficit to the hottest team in the NHL. That's not a lost locker room as much as a few NHL players, whom all sound like they are attending a funeral when eliminated any year, and some fans jumping to conclusions which don't make any sense in the first place. The ONLY way to determine the capabilities of this roster is to get a new coach and put the same team on the ice. Otherwise, if changes occur, the fans and the players should shut up b/c the coach (and almost any coach) knows more than the fans and players despite the bandwagon of guesswork b/c a team, which isn't as talented as the Bruins, lost.

Some of the reason we had new players is because of him HELLO

puckhead54
06-04-2013, 10:53 AM
We can speculate all we want, come up to with our own opinions and that's all it is our own opinion, we can agree or disagree with what was done but the bottom line is Everything you hear about Torts is heresay. Believe only when you here it from the horses mouth. I have yet to hear one player come out publicly and say anything bad about the coach everything is 3rd party and do you honestly believe that some of the media wasn't putting their own spin on what was actually said. With that said it's time to move on unless someone has a Pulitzer prize winning quote from the players about Torts. Also name a coach in any sport in any city that 100% of the people like. It's ALWAYS easier to get rid of the coach than a whole team.

nyr2002nyr
06-04-2013, 11:25 AM
We can speculate all we want, come up to with our own opinions and that's all it is our own opinion, we can agree or disagree with what was done but the bottom line is Everything you hear about Torts is heresay. Believe only when you here it from the horses mouth. I have yet to hear one player come out publicly and say anything bad about the coach everything is 3rd party and do you honestly believe that some of the media wasn't putting their own spin on what was actually said. With that said it's time to move on unless someone has a Pulitzer prize winning quote from the players about Torts. Also name a coach in any sport in any city that 100% of the people like. It's ALWAYS easier to get rid of the coach than a whole team.

The players will never come out and say it and they shouldnt its not something the media should ever hear from them. Unlike how he has done things. That being said you are correct its time to move on

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 12:46 PM
We can speculate all we want, come up to with our own opinions and that's all it is our own opinion, we can agree or disagree with what was done but the bottom line is Everything you hear about Torts is heresay. Believe only when you here it from the horses mouth. I have yet to hear one player come out publicly and say anything bad about the coach everything is 3rd party and do you honestly believe that some of the media wasn't putting their own spin on what was actually said. With that said it's time to move on unless someone has a Pulitzer prize winning quote from the players about Torts. Also name a coach in any sport in any city that 100% of the people like. It's ALWAYS easier to get rid of the coach than a whole team.

+1

IMO, the guy loved his team and should be have granted at least one more year considering all the changes. It's not like the team quit.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-04-2013, 12:55 PM
The players are showing they are class acts by not saying anything publicly. That has made me respect them even more. Some things should only be said behind closed doors or kept in the locker room not to the media. This shows me we have a good group of guys not a bunch of divas.

metswon69
06-04-2013, 01:16 PM
+1

IMO, the guy loved his team and should be have granted at least one more year considering all the changes. It's not like the team quit.

They were on the verge of it before that trade and bringing in Zukes.

metswon69
06-04-2013, 01:16 PM
Dupe..

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 01:19 PM
They were on the verge of it before that trade and bringing in Zukes.

and they are on the verge of defeating the Bruins a few games too. The team NEVER quit so these cockadoodle theories of losing the locker room are just that.

NYY09
06-04-2013, 01:57 PM
and they are on the verge of defeating the Bruins a few games too. The team NEVER quit so these cockadoodle theories of losing the locker room are just that.

You know, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive, they are pro athletes... Look, I'm not say I agree one way or the other but everyone is so polarized its comical. When people say "he lost the locker room" its doesnt necessarily mean everyone tuned the guy out to the point where they stopped playing, they are pros after all, it might just mean they didn't fully "buy in" and that's not how you win anything.

Yes, they made the playoffs and even came back from an 0-2 hole but that in no way is mutually exclusive to Torts not losing the room. Yeah the team put in the effort, because of something called pride and professionalism, but to think it was because of Torts and not in spite of him is silly. Fact is we'll never know and to speculate this hard is useless.

No one knows who was displeased with Torts and there probably weren't any ultimatums thrown around but obviously it came to the point where Sather felt that its better going into the preseason with a new voice cuz clearly the old one had run its course. Did Torts deserve it? Who knows... but it is what it is.

fingerbang
06-04-2013, 02:12 PM
People can look at the situation any way they won't to. I have a hard time backing players when they "tune out" a coach less than a year after achieving the #1 seed and making it all the way to the conference finals.

According to media speculation, the players were against him about a month into the season. How does that happen?

At the end of the day Sather's the big winner. He fired a succesful coach but can deflect all of the blame because he can hide behind the idea that the players made the decision for him.

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 02:18 PM
You know, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive, they are pro athletes... Look, I'm not say I agree one way or the other but everyone is so polarized its comical.


Giants lost - "Coughlin lost the team" how many times?

Texeria went 0-8 in his return - "he's done" Yankee fans had meltdown just yesterday


Rangers go to conference finals "we're gonna win the Cup next year"

Rangers lose "Coach lost the team".

It's the same bi-polar NY fans led by the nose by the fickle media. They can't figure out what the problem is so they let the media lead them around.


The coach is forced to speak to the media, unlike the NFL coaches, for many, many games. B/c the coach didn't pamper the media, the sensitive believe it's disrespectful. Had the coach treated the media with kid gloves, the fans would think it was a choke job. Either way, it doesn't appear the fans can handle the realization that the roster didn't match up.

Oh yeah, if we had another coach and he opened the game . . . yada yada . . . we would have seen more goals during the regular season and blindsided when those skating lanes close down and evaporate come playoff time. (side note: after the trade deadline, which team scored the most goals? According to an article, it was the Rangers (must have been despite the coach, right?)

The Bruins were a lot better and a different coach wouldn't have led them to victory, in fact ,a lesser coach wouldn't have defeated the Hot Caps.

nyr2002nyr
06-04-2013, 03:08 PM
+1

IMO, the guy loved his team and should be have granted at least one more year considering all the changes. It's not like the team quit.


If he "LOVED" his team he has a awful way of showing it

nyr2002nyr
06-04-2013, 03:09 PM
The players are showing they are class acts by not saying anything publicly. That has made me respect them even more. Some things should only be said behind closed doors or kept in the locker room not to the media. This shows me we have a good group of guys not a bunch of divas.


Exactly unlike how he did them

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 03:14 PM
If he "LOVED" his team he has a awful way of showing it

If you ever listened to the interviews or watched the videos you would understand. Those who played sports understand the love/hate relationship with a coach they sometimes hate yet would run through a wall for.

Here's a link which proves my point. He defended his team often and the Haglin comments were mostly laughter with the media. The fickle media who lead the fans by the nose by focusing on the words and the context. http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2013/05/29/best-of-tortorella-ny-rangers-fire-coach-john-tortorella/

nyr2002nyr
06-04-2013, 03:18 PM
If you ever listened to the interviews or watched the videos you would understand. Those who played sports understand the love/hate relationship with a coach they sometimes hate yet would run through a wall for.

Here's a link which proves my point. He defended his team often and the Haglin comments were mostly laughter with the media. The fickle media who lead the fans by the nose by focusing on the words and the context. http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2013/05/29/best-of-tortorella-ny-rangers-fire-coach-john-tortorella/


Those who played sports hahahahahahah you are a funny guy. These comments were so funny Hags was pissed over them. Answer me this are you really Torts?

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Those who played sports hahahahahahah you are a funny guy. These comments were so funny Hags was pissed over them. Answer me this are you really Torts?

If I was Torts I would treat you like he treated the fickle media. He ran out of patients trying to educate an otherwise uneducated media who writes stories to a pretty uneducated fan base. Hags stinks on the PP yet Torts put him right on the PP the following game. A lot of coaches use these techniques while the sensitive in the crowd will never understand it.

NYY09
06-04-2013, 03:44 PM
Giants lost - "Coughlin lost the team" how many times?

Texeria went 0-8 in his return - "he's done" Yankee fans had meltdown just yesterday


Rangers go to conference finals "we're gonna win the Cup next year"

Rangers lose "Coach lost the team".

It's the same bi-polar NY fans led by the nose by the fickle media. They can't figure out what the problem is so they let the media lead them around.


The coach is forced to speak to the media, unlike the NFL coaches, for many, many games. B/c the coach didn't pamper the media, the sensitive believe it's disrespectful. Had the coach treated the media with kid gloves, the fans would think it was a choke job. Either way, it doesn't appear the fans can handle the realization that the roster didn't match up.

Oh yeah, if we had another coach and he opened the game . . . yada yada . . . we would have seen more goals during the regular season and blindsided when those skating lanes close down and evaporate come playoff time. (side note: after the trade deadline, which team scored the most goals? According to an article, it was the Rangers (must have been despite the coach, right?)

The Bruins were a lot better and a different coach wouldn't have led them to victory, in fact ,a lesser coach wouldn't have defeated the Hot Caps.

I know what you're saying and most of its true, the only thing that i saw this year that annoyed the life outta me is when the team just seemed like they were disengaged and not giving a total effort. So yeah, you can say the talent wasn't there and all but imagine what this team, with its shortage in talent, could have done if they all bought in and played with intensity and focus....

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 04:09 PM
I know what you're saying and most of its true, the only thing that i saw this year that annoyed the life outta me is when the team just seemed like they were disengaged and not giving a total effort. So yeah, you can say the talent wasn't there and all but imagine what this team, with its shortage in talent, could have done if they all bought in and played with intensity and focus....

They couldn't win the boards battle. They finally started scoring after the trade deadline b/c they won some board battles. Clowe going down hurt the team. Boston has a few Clowes out there. What's the solution when so few players have legit shots, the board battles are being lost too often, nobody regardless of system can pass the puck on the blue line and let's be honest, nobody could budge that Bruins fourth line or Lucic (especially without Staal). The Rangers couldn't physical compete and, ironically, the Rangers of last season won games by launching 3/4 lines non-stop and wearing teams down. Now they only had 2.5 lines minus Staal and Clowe.

IMO, Torts deserved another year. Get the guy some depth as the Rangers proved they could win with his system. It might not be the most popular system but what's the real solution? Does anybody really want to Hagelin, Kreider & company try to turn these games into shootouts against teams who lay back and burn them non-stop of the transition game?

Two plus decades ago I drooled over a lineup which featured starts like Bernie Nicholls & Mike Gartner. They had kids named Tony Amonte, Doug Weight, Darren Turcotte, Miller, Mullen etc. They featured Brian Leetch and James Patrick at the point. Wanna fight? They had Troy Mallette, Kris King, some kid named Domi and later added Joe Kocur. In net, they didn't have one goalie, they had two in Richter and Vanbiesbrouck. A year later, made some moves for a guy named Messier. Add in the names Graves and Kovalev too. I though they would be awesome for a decade and guess what happened to all these names mentioned above? They were annihilated come playoff time. It was only years later when, despite being in first place, the Rangers made a ton of moves to win the board battle. This 2013 version, couldn't win the board battle and the names/abilities of those wearing the Rangers sweater of yesteryear (who were annihilated) still look more impressive than this bunch. That's not on the coach and, IMO, there wasn't much in that locker room to lose in the first place.

NYY09
06-04-2013, 05:22 PM
They couldn't win the boards battle. They finally started scoring after the trade deadline b/c they won some board battles. Clowe going down hurt the team. Boston has a few Clowes out there. What's the solution when so few players have legit shots, the board battles are being lost too often, nobody regardless of system can pass the puck on the blue line and let's be honest, nobody could budge that Bruins fourth line or Lucic (especially without Staal). The Rangers couldn't physical compete and, ironically, the Rangers of last season won games by launching 3/4 lines non-stop and wearing teams down. Now they only had 2.5 lines minus Staal and Clowe.

IMO, Torts deserved another year. Get the guy some depth as the Rangers proved they could win with his system. It might not be the most popular system but what's the real solution? Does anybody really want to Hagelin, Kreider & company try to turn these games into shootouts against teams who lay back and burn them non-stop of the transition game?

Two plus decades ago I drooled over a lineup which featured starts like Bernie Nicholls & Mike Gartner. They had kids named Tony Amonte, Doug Weight, Darren Turcotte, Miller, Mullen etc. They featured Brian Leetch and James Patrick at the point. Wanna fight? They had Troy Mallette, Kris King, some kid named Domi and later added Joe Kocur. In net, they didn't have one goalie, they had two in Richter and Vanbiesbrouck. A year later, made some moves for a guy named Messier. Add in the names Graves and Kovalev too. I though they would be awesome for a decade and guess what happened to all these names mentioned above? They were annihilated come playoff time. It was only years later when, despite being in first place, the Rangers made a ton of moves to win the board battle. This 2013 version, couldn't win the board battle and the names/abilities of those wearing the Rangers sweater of yesteryear (who were annihilated) still look more impressive than this bunch. That's not on the coach and, IMO, there wasn't much in that locker room to lose in the first place.

Again, I think you're right but I also think that its a combination of both. Yes, the team lacked depth when the season started and yes the lack of a training camp/preseason hurt them with the player turnover but it's still on the coach to figure it out even if its on the fly. Not saying it was all his fault, but just like the players, he should have been better and we know that in this situation its easier to change the coach than the players.

The trouble is that somewhere along the way, because its NY, shorthened season, expectations built on last year and all that nonsense, it turned into the perfect storm of what can go wrong did go wrong. Should Torts have been given one more year? in theory, yes but aside from that I think mostly everyone was ready for a change. I for one welcome it because I saw last year as a tremendous outlier where everything went their way and they still couldn't win a cup so yeah, 'tis high time for a reshuffle.

metswon69
06-04-2013, 06:05 PM
and they are on the verge of defeating the Bruins a few games too. The team NEVER quit so these cockadoodle theories of losing the locker room are just that.

They didn't quit after the trade. Hey look you can say what you want but there is no way that first incarnation of the team makes the playoffs with Gaborik having 9 goals through 35 games and their poor play out of Richards. Clowe, Zukes, Moore, and Brassard made a world of difference to this team down the stretch of the year.

The first 35 games they scored 74 goals (and were last in the league in GPG)

Over their last 13 games of the season they scored 52.

I am sure a good portion of that lackadaisical play had something to do with the players not responding to the coach. When Callahan isn't finishing checks and effort is being questioned, that suggests the locker room is lost.

nyr2002nyr
06-04-2013, 06:22 PM
If I was Torts I would treat you like he treated the fickle media. He ran out of patients trying to educate an otherwise uneducated media who writes stories to a pretty uneducated fan base. Hags stinks on the PP yet Torts put him right on the PP the following game. A lot of coaches use these techniques while the sensitive in the crowd will never understand it.


Wak wak wak wak. You sound like Charlie browns teacher. Ok we get it you are right and the other 99% are wrong feel better

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 06:25 PM
Wak wak wak wak. You sound like Charlie browns teacher. Ok we get it you are right and the other 99% are wrong feel better

Easy there Charlie Brown

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 06:26 PM
They didn't quit after the trade. Hey look you can say what you want but there is no way that first incarnation of the team makes the playoffs with Gaborik having 9 goals through 35 games and their poor play out of Richards. Clowe, Zukes, Moore, and Brassard made a world of difference to this team down the stretch of the year.

The first 35 games they scored 74 goals (and were last in the league in GPG)

Over their last 13 games of the season they scored 52.

Yes, and for the (blank) time, they lost the battle of the boards.

metswon69
06-04-2013, 07:02 PM
Yes, and for the (blank) time, they lost the battle of the boards.

That's not the sole reason. I know it and you know it.

And if it was about the system and acclimating guys into it, why did it take Moore, Brassard, and Clowe to play at a high level in no time? Why did the Rangers only start playing motivated hockey after the trade?

Why were there rumblings from early on in the season that players were not giving max effort?

All these questions go ignored or are explained by "they lost the battle on the boards" or "they didn't have enough guys like Jeff Beukeboom"

I agree depth was an issue but with Callahan, Nash, Gabs, Richards, Stepan, Hagelin there is zero reason why they should have been last in the league in goals scored up to the trade.

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 07:19 PM
That's not the sole reason. I know it and you know it.

And if it was about the system and acclimating guys into it, why did it take Moore, Brassard, and Clowe to play at a high level in no time? Why did the Rangers only start playing motivated hockey after the trade?

b/c they become complimentary players. The cockadoodle about "start playing motivated" is nonsense as the added parts aided the whole team dynamic which was lost during the offseason. Why do you think they made the trade for Clowe and Dorsett?

Why were there rumblings from early on in the season that players were not giving max effort?

Oh please . . . more cockadoodle.

All these questions go ignored or are explained by "they lost the battle on the boards" or "they didn't have enough guys like Jeff Beukeboom"

yeah, that's hockey and something the Rangers played all last season and Bruins defeated the Canucks with a year earlier. The game is won on the boards just as the NFL won on the LOS. Fantasy stats amount to nothing without the dirty work.



I agree depth was an issue but with Callahan, Nash, Gabs, Richards, Stepan, Hagelin there is zero reason why they should have been last in the league in goals scored up to the trade.

Last sentence indicates exactly what I'm talking about. The Rangers wore out teams last season with a rotation of 3/4 lines all game long. The depth was gone and those two lines didn't wear out anybody. None of those names besides Cally (a smaller Graves) hits anybody. Oh by the way, Nash and Stepan did score.

metswon69
06-04-2013, 07:31 PM
Last sentence indicates exactly what I'm talking about. The Rangers wore out teams last season with a rotation of 3/4 lines all game long. The depth was gone and those two lines didn't wear out anybody. None of those names besides Cally (a smaller Graves) hits anybody.

There is no "cockadoodle" as you like to call it. They played like **** and look unmotivated throughout the season. When Callahan isn't finishing checks in games against the last place Florida Panthers, that rings a bell to me.

When do we know Callahan not to finish out every shift and every hit?

You make it sound like that's the only way to get offense is through aggressive defensive hockey. It's not.

That team as great of a regular season they had last year also had the same issues getting any offense from those bottom two lines. For all the great PK work and great defense they played, the one remaining issue was "Who is going to score the puck?" especially from those aforementioned lines in regards to tertiary scoring.

They got so desperate as to bring up Kreider a week after finishing the NCAA Frozen Four. That's a team that knows its limitations offensively.

I just don't buy that this team should have been worse offensively from last year going into this season.

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 08:13 PM
You make it sound like that's the only way to get offense is through aggressive defensive hockey. It's not.


You make is sound like the Rangers don't dump the puck non-stop behind the net in an attempt to maul and tire out the opponents. They always dump the puck, circle, dump it, work the boards, etc non-stop. That's their offense and the SAME OFFENSE the Bruins use. You make it sound like you don't watch the games very closely

That team as great of a regular season they had last year also had the same issues getting any offense from those bottom two lines. For all the great PK work and great defense they played, the one remaining issue was "Who is going to score the puck?" especially from those aforementioned lines in regards to tertiary scoring.

Yeah, besides the Kings, practically everybody's offense was shut down in the playoffs last season. It sure would help if a Rangers defenseman could QB the PP with some authority or blast a shot on occasion. Can any skate the puck up with any speed? The opponent sends one forward after a defenseman and drops four players. With no defenseman wining a one on one battle nor skating the puck up and no threatening shot it's basically 4 on 3 the whole game with the Rangers at a disadvantage.

They got so desperate as to bring up Kreider a week after finishing the NCAA Frozen Four. That's a team that knows its limitations offensively.

They added a big body who did ok. What happened to that guy? He was miserable in Hartford. What happened?

I just don't buy that this team should have been worse offensively from last year going into this season.

That's b/c you don't recognize what's happened on the boards last year and what was missing from the boards until the trade deadline this year. Not to mention, team dynamics don't appear to register either considering all the changes on the roster. What team had this many changes and was successful? Meanwhile, some still don't buy into Clowe wasn't brought in for his goal scoring. He was brought in for something else. That something else was missing in the Boston series. What was it?

metswon69
06-04-2013, 08:24 PM
That's b/c you don't recognize what's happened on the boards last year and what was missing from the boards until the trade deadline this year. Not to mention, team dynamics don't appear to register either considering all the changes on the roster. What team had this many changes and was successful? Meanwhile, some still don't buy into Clowe wasn't brought in for his goal scoring. He was brought in for something else. That something else was missing in the Boston series. What was it?

It was but it's not the sole reason why they all of a sudden became an offensive juggernaut at the end of the regular season. I understand board play and being physical is important but so is being able to score, something of which the Rangers weren't doing to start the season with the personnel to do so (at least more efficiently than last in the league).

The Rangers still had enough of a core talent to hang around the playoff picture. I think that was pretty evident even when they were struggling. I am just saying that the first incarnation of that team was listless and probably wouldn't have made the playoffs. They carried no momentum and every game was a struggle to score goals, sometimes against the crappiest of competition.

Clowe was brought in to be our Lucic, unfortunately the two concussions did him in.

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 08:33 PM
It

The Rangers still had enough of a core talent to hang around the playoff picture. I think that was pretty evident even when they were struggling. I am just saying that the first incarnation of that team was listless and probably wouldn't have made the playoffs. They carried no momentum and every game was a struggle to score goals, sometimes against the crappiest of competition.


Hang around the playoff picture against who? Defeat the Bruins who are knocking the snot out of the Penguins? Seriously??????

Clowe was brought in to be our Lucic, unfortunately the two concussions did him in.

Clowe was NOT brought in to be a first line player. You seriously think he was brought in for that?

metswon69
06-04-2013, 08:52 PM
Clowe was NOT brought in to be a first line player. You seriously think he was brought in for that?

Hang around the playoff picture with the Winnipegs, Philadelphias, New Jersey and Buffalos of the world for the last playoff spot/spots. Even the first incarnation of that team had enough talent to do that.

That's the player he was most compared to and although he didn't score like that, his toughness/grit, board play, and physical nature is why the Rangers wanted him.

Lucic wasn't playing great this year anyway. He was a healthy scratch in 2 games this year at the end of the season due to his poor play. He was also not scoring like he had in the previous 2 seasons.

NYSPORTS98
06-04-2013, 09:06 PM
Hang around the playoff picture with the Winnipegs, Philadelphias, New Jersey and Buffalos for the last playoff spot/spots. Even the first incarnation of that team had enough talent to do that.

.

Got it

Well, like I said, a lot of roster changes. In the end, they finished one point behind Washington. In the end, the final four are the last four Stanley Cup champions and without changes I don't see the Rangers getting any closer. Then again, changes will indicate a coach can only do so much with this group. Sather gets another pass.

puckhead54
06-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Enough already :horse: lets move on what was said is said and what was done is done. Can someone please start an interesting new thread and stop this bickering nonsense.

nyr1980
06-05-2013, 11:32 AM
Enough already :horse: lets move on what was said is said and what was done is done. Can someone please start an interesting new thread and stop this bickering nonsense.

Here Here!

Bottom line- Shi**y hand for Torts with lockout, no camp, loss of 5 of his top 10 forwards, etc. You can argue you whether he lost the room or not, but his team underachieved, and that's on him. Love the guy and he'll find another gig. Fair or not, time to move on.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-05-2013, 02:45 PM
We barely changed our top 6. Nash was the only change for most the year. That is not a huge amount of change. Some new guys on the 3rd and 4th line (who barely play) were not an excuse for this team. The LA Kings had way more changes last season including major trades in the off season and during the season plus a coach being fired and still won the cup. All teams had to deal with the lockout not just us. The lockout is not an excuse for this team. With 40 plus games, 60 or more practices and 12 playoff games the team did not have an excuse not to be on the same page. Actually they were on the same page. They just did not believe in the page.

I agree this topic has been beat to death. I do not close the thread because I want you guys to have the freedom to speak about the team freely. I do hope it dies a natural death soon, lol. :)

fingerbang
06-05-2013, 03:25 PM
We barely changed our top 6. Nash was the only change for most the year. That is not a huge amount of change. Some new guys on the 3rd and 4th line (who barely play) were not an excuse for this team. The LA Kings had way more changes last season including major trades in the off season and during the season plus a coach being fired and still won the cup. All teams had to deal with the lockout not just us. The lockout is not an excuse for this team. With 40 plus games, 60 or more practices and 12 playoff games the team did not have an excuse not to be on the same page. Actually they were on the same page. They just did not believe in the page.

I agree this topic has been beat to death. I do not close the thread because I want you guys to have the freedom to speak about the team freely. I do hope it dies a natural death soon, lol. :)

The top six wasn't changed much but the bottom six was a major problem for the Rangers. Before the trade the rangers were only rolling two lines that could score and that was a problem. The Rangers desperately needed to get JT Miller out of the lineup because he contributed nothing offensively.

I think the lockout was a problem for Richards, his conditioning wasn't there. He's a veteran and that's on him.

Gaborik stunk this year. Played belew his expectations in Columbus, too.

Nash+Richards+Gaborik turned into Nash but only in the regular season+unhealthy Gaborik+below average Brad.

If you told me Gaborik and Richards would play like ****, Nash would only play well during regular season, and the bottom six would struggle, I wouldn't predict an ECF appearance.

NYSPORTS98
06-07-2013, 10:50 PM
So do the Penguins need more offense being they scored two goals in four games against the Bruins? Nice job Sather.

MJL80
06-08-2013, 07:59 AM
So do the Penguins need more offense being they scored two goals in four games against the Bruins? Nice job Sather.

Maybe Dan Bylsma gets axed this week and we make a run at him!!!!!!!!!!!

MJL80
06-08-2013, 08:00 AM
Maybe Dan Bylsma gets axed this week and we make a run at him!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblog/bylsma_would_become_rangers_top_SGkkrpqomyN4fsFR70 KHpN#axzz2VYqAs2VS

NYSPORTS98
06-08-2013, 09:06 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblog/bylsma_would_become_rangers_top_SGkkrpqomyN4fsFR70 KHpN#axzz2VYqAs2VS

Larry Brooks is such an (blank). Go hire the coach who couldn't lead his team to 3 goals in 14 periods against the Bruins with two of the best players in the league. Maybe Torts will end up in Jersey, Phiily or the Island too.

fingerbang
06-08-2013, 12:37 PM
Because Dan isn't gong to say mean things to Larry.

nyr2002nyr
06-08-2013, 02:25 PM
Larry Brooks is such an (blank). Go hire the coach who couldn't lead his team to 3 goals in 14 periods against the Bruins with two of the best players in the league. Maybe Torts will end up in Jersey, Phiily or the Island too.

Mario would never hire someone who acts like that

NYSPORTS98
06-08-2013, 07:57 PM
Mario would never hire someone who acts like that

Who is Mario from Jersey, Philly or the Island?

nyr2002nyr
06-08-2013, 08:20 PM
Who is Mario from Jersey, Philly or the Island?

My mistake sir for some reason I must have thought I saw Pitt. But you do agree in what I said dont you?

nyr1980
06-08-2013, 10:10 PM
Maybe Dan Bylsma gets axed this week and we make a run at him!!!!!!!!!!!

While I think it would be a huge mistake for Pittsburgh to fire Bylsma, you can't argue that that team has underachieved.

A second round loss to MTL, who they were markedly better than in 09-10, followed by back to back 1st round losses in 10-11 & 11-12, and now, despite winning two rounds, a VERY poor showing in the ECF this season. You can give him a pass somewhat on the loss to TB in 10-11 as he had neither Crosby nor Malkin, but still. This year especially with huge deadline acquisitions of Iginla, Morrow, and Murray, and no Finals berth. Very disappointing.

A very good coach, IMO, but having the two best players in the world over the full sum of the last 5 seasons, plus a very good supporting cast, and only 1 cup to show for it is underachieving. Surely there are people within that organization who are saying something close to that.