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Hardaway Here
05-30-2013, 10:06 AM
LeBron, David West, and Lance Stephenson all fined for flops in previous game.
http://www.nba.com/official/?ls=iref:nbahpts

Fines on both sides but the majority will still only notice flopping when the Clippers and Miami do it. It's sad there isn't one team in the league without floppers. There isn't one game that doesn't have flopping. It's part of the NBA. It's annoying as hell and a lot of times unnecessary, but it's there regardless people might as well stop complaining.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 10:09 AM
I think its pretty clear Indiana's flopping was in retaliation to Miami. Just look at their flopping antics in games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 10:09 AM
Man I really hope a reporter brings this up to LeBron after telling the world he doesn't flop.

king4day
05-30-2013, 10:14 AM
Lebron's gonna have to sell his house to afford that penalty :(

BALLER R
05-30-2013, 10:19 AM
I think its pretty clear Indiana's flopping was in retaliation to Miami. Just look at their flopping antics in games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2.

This seems to be the case.

Slug3
05-30-2013, 10:20 AM
I think its pretty clear Indiana's flopping was in retaliation to Miami. Just look at their flopping antics in games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2.

The good ole "eye for an eye". So you are now saying it is ok for Indy ti flop cause Miami was doing it. Is there where we are starting to head to now?

ManRam
05-30-2013, 10:23 AM
I think its pretty clear Indiana's flopping was in retaliation to Miami. Just look at their flopping antics in games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2.

retaliatory flopping?

you're reaching...



and GOOD. that lebron/west double flop was terrible.

BALLER R
05-30-2013, 10:23 AM
The good ole "eye for an eye". So you are now saying it is ok for Indy ti flop cause Miami was doing it. Is there where we are starting to head to now?

He never said that though don't start trouble man it's too early. What that is stating is that Indiana started over exaggerating the flops because miami always flops. Maybe it was more strategic in a way of calling out the refs for calling them so they did it too to bring attention to it.

Also surprised Battier didn't get fined.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 10:23 AM
The good ole "eye for an eye". So you are now saying it is ok for Indy ti flop cause Miami was doing it. Is there where we are starting to head to now?

Not really saying its OK, but when close to 5 guys on one team are flopping around like fish out of water on a nightly basis and getting an advantage for it, you need to even things out. At some point you need to retaliate and give them a taste of their own medicine or your gonna watch yourself give up points everynight due to the other teams successful flops.

D1JM
05-30-2013, 10:25 AM
i am happy both lebron and west got fined for flopping. that was some bad acting from the both of them

SteBO
05-30-2013, 10:26 AM
I think its pretty clear Indiana's flopping was in retaliation to Miami. Just look at their flopping antics in games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2.


This seems to be the case.
Now we're here justifying Indiana's flopping.....great. That said, the fines were warranted on both sides.

NYKnickFanatic
05-30-2013, 10:27 AM
They actually fined LeBron? Shocking.

2-ONE-5
05-30-2013, 10:28 AM
about time

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 10:30 AM
retaliatory flopping?

you're reaching...



and GOOD. that lebron/west double flop was terrible.

The flopping from Indy was pretty much non existent in games 1 and 2 while Miami was doing what they do. The flopping became a major talking point with reporters pounding them for questions, trying to get Vogel fined again, trying to get them to call out Miami on their flopping. Games 3 and 4 Indy was flopping just as bad.

I don't think its much of a reach, but I understand you are LeBron's #1 flop apologist here and will go at length to defend his flopping antics.

jmoney23
05-30-2013, 10:30 AM
Did they ever issue fines to Wade and Battier?

Shmontaine
05-30-2013, 10:31 AM
i'd much rather see fouls be assessed towards the next game for all offenders of flopping. that's really the only way to curb this. actual in-game consequences. not pocket-change fines that players will gladly pay for a chance to swing a game...

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 10:32 AM
Now we're here justifying Indiana's flopping.....great. That said, the fines were warranted on both sides.

Not justifying it, but trying to understand out why a team who hasn't been known to flop all year, including games 1 and 2, outside of maybe 1 guy (Lance) suddenly starting flopping their balls off in the 2 games after the Heat were getting a ton of public acknowledgement for their flopping antics.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 10:33 AM
i'd much rather see fouls be assessed towards the next game for all offenders of flopping. that's really the only way to curb this. actual in-game consequences. not pocket-change fines that players will gladly pay for a chance to swing a game...

Prigioni actually got a foul called on him in the last series for a mega flop. I wish they would do that more. Even a technical would be nice.

ManRam
05-30-2013, 10:33 AM
Not really saying its OK, but when close to 5 guys on one team are flopping around the fish out of water on a nightly basis and getting an advantage for it, you need to even things out. At some point you need to retaliate and give them a taste of their own medicine.

this is insinuating that the pacers never flop. which is an utter joke.

people and their selective memories. most everyone in the league flops. lebron and wade do it, but so does everyone else. most people who hate the heat or those two just let their selective memories run rampant.

EVERYONE FLOPS. Dwight Howard, again, is the only guy I've never seen flop.



lance stephenson has flopped NUMEROUS times. this is the one i remember best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw4VQbh8yjA


david west flopped simultaneously with lebron. you can't say he only did it because lebron did.

paul george:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIakK6AhQao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrSQ2_AhtUg

tyler hansbrough loves to embellish and flop.



the "it's OK because they're only doing it because the heat do it" thing is a joke.

the heat might do it more than some teams (and less than others, like the clippers and spurs), but they get focused on the most because, well, they're better than those other teams.

29$JerZ
05-30-2013, 10:41 AM
:laugh2: at LeBron

Penalty for flopping won't affect anyone until you start risking suspension for it rather than only losing money.
The 1 or 2 calls you can get from it are worth more than whatever money you lose.

SteBO
05-30-2013, 10:53 AM
Not justifying it, but trying to understand out why a team who hasn't been known to flop all year, including games 1 and 2, outside of maybe 1 guy (Lance) suddenly starting flopping their balls off in the 2 games after the Heat were getting a ton of public acknowledgement for their flopping antics.
I'm not going to sit here and say Miami doesn't have floppers, but I gotta say I don't really care who is or isn't "known" to flop. The reality is that the Pacers in fact DO flop no more, no less than other teams. The only reason you and so many selective viewers like to pinpoint the Heat so much is because people don't like them and Indiana isn't a team that many "fans" are aware of. They aren't showcased anywhere near as much.....but any rational fan will tell you that Lance Stephenson and David West have flopped plenty this year and in this series. But no, let's just kill LeBron and Heat for it.....

ManRam
05-30-2013, 10:55 AM
The flopping from Indy was pretty much non existent in games 1 and 2 while Miami was doing what they do. The flopping became a major talking point with reporters pounding them for questions, trying to get Vogel fined again, trying to get them to call out Miami on their flopping. Games 3 and 4 Indy was flopping just as bad.

I don't think its much of a reach, but I understand you are LeBron's #1 flop apologist here and will go at length to defend his flopping antics.

i just wish you would be fair and consistent with your flop-criticisms :shrug:


my only point is that people single guys out here. there are far more egregious floppers, but people discuss lebron ad nauseum because they dislike him...not because he actually is the worst there is. he does it too much, for sure...but he's just one of 30-40 guys who does it too much.

the heat do it too much, and it's annoying. but it's a league-wide problem.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 10:56 AM
this is insinuating that the pacers never flop. which is an utter joke.

people and their selective memories. most everyone in the league flops. lebron and wade do it, but so does everyone else. most people who hate the heat or those two just let their selective memories run rampant.

EVERYONE FLOPS. Dwight Howard, again, is the only guy I've never seen flop.



lance stephenson has flopped NUMEROUS times. this is the one i remember best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw4VQbh8yjA


david west flopped simultaneously with lebron. you can't say he only did it because lebron did.

paul george:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIakK6AhQao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrSQ2_AhtUg

tyler hansbrough loves to embellish and flop.



the "it's OK because they're only doing it because the heat do it" thing is a joke.

the heat might do it more than some teams (and less than others, like the clippers and spurs), but they get focused on the most because, well, they're better than those other teams.

Come on dude. Those Paul George vids were reaching big time. First one he clearly banged knees with LeBron and lost his balance, how is that a flop? I don't think it justified a foul but it wasn't a flop because he fell out of bounds and got a call. The second one he sold a charge when Melo lowered his shoulder and tried to barrel into him which is illegal. You want to call that a flop fine, but you will never hear me call a legitimate charge a flop. If you want to go that route every charge drawn in this league is a flop.

I am talking getting grazed on a shoulder by a 5'10 PG and flying around like a fish out of water flops that LeBron is famous for. That Blake is famous for. The flops that are truly embarrassing to watch as a basketball fan. The flops from some physically imposing monsters and superstar talents. Not drawing a charge when a much stronger guy tries to barrel through you. During these playoffs LeBron has had multiple disgraceful flops nearly every game and hes getting called out on them live during game action.

You can pretend the only reason everyone calls out the flops of Miami are because of their success but the Clippers got the same treatment all season long. So did Brooklyn. Whats your reasoning for that? People hate on these teams because its clear flopping is a part of the game plan, its not just one outlier like Ginobili, its 4-5 guys on the team including the team stars (not so much BK - thats reserved for Evans and Wallace).

Those teams are the ringleaders of the flopping brigade, and Miami having the best player in the world on their team carrying the torch is the reason they get the majority of the flack. The same way a teams best player gets the majority of the blame when things go wrong, the best players/teams in the league are going to get the majority of the blame when flopping becomes and epidemic.

ManRam
05-30-2013, 10:58 AM
:laugh2: at LeBron

Penalty for flopping won't affect anyone until you start risking suspension for it rather than only losing money.
The 1 or 2 calls you can get from it are worth more than whatever money you lose.

i always felt fines were the wrong way to go about it. it's especially the wrong way to go about it because they really are hesitant to do so. it seems like they fined a few guys early in the season then stopped caring about it basically until now.

let refs call techs for egregious flops. i'm not talking about a guy falling a little more dramatically than normal while actually truly being fouled. i'm talking legit flops - where a player tries to turn NOTHING into something. the problem with that is that the refs already have an impossible job to do. adding this would probably be as inconsistent as anything else already is.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 11:02 AM
If the Clippers were still in the playoffs, I'm sure there would be quite a few Blake/CP3 threads too.

ManRam
05-30-2013, 11:04 AM
Come on dude. Those Paul George vids were reaching big time. First one he clearly banged knees with LeBron and lost his balance, how is that a flop? I don't think it justified a foul but it wasn't a flop because he fell out of bounds and got a call. The second one he sold a charge when Melo lowered his shoulder and tried to barrel into him which is illegal. You want to call that a flop fine, but you will never hear me call a legitimate charge a flop. If you want to go that route every charge drawn in this league is a flop.

I am talking getting grazed on a shoulder by a 5'10 PG and flying around like a fish out of water flops that LeBron is famous for. That Blake is famous for. The flops that are truly embarrassing to watch as a basketball fan. The flops from some physically imposing monsters and superstar talents. Not drawing a charge when a much stronger guy tries to barrel through you. During these playoffs LeBron has had multiple disgraceful flops nearly every game and hes getting called out on them live during game action.

You can pretend the only reason everyone calls out the flops of Miami are because of their success but the Clippers got the same treatment all season long. So did Brooklyn. Whats your reasoning for that? People hate on these teams because its clear flopping is a part of the game plan, its not just one outlier like Ginobili, its 4-5 guys on the team including the team stars (not so much BK - thats reserved for Evans and Wallace).

Those teams are the ringleaders of the flopping brigade, and Miami having the best player in the world on their team carrying the torch is the reason they get the majority of the flack. The same way a teams best player gets the majority of the blame when things go wrong, the best players/teams in the league are going to get the majority of the blame when flopping becomes and epidemic.

I'm going to keep note of this post the next time you lose your **** when LeBron barely embellishes a play in which he's legitimately fouled. Because it certainly wouldn't be the first time you've done that.

My point stands: every team has floppers, every team has egregious floppers. It's a league-wide problem. People who pretend like only 3 or 4 guys do it or only 1 or 2 teams are going to find me arguing against them :shrug:

lakerfan85
05-30-2013, 11:04 AM
Now we're here justifying Indiana's flopping.....great. That said, the fines were warranted on both sides.

That's not what he was implying at all.. If Miami is gonna be allowed to flop and get away with it most times why can't the Pacers try as well?? Quit being a homer!

lakerfan85
05-30-2013, 11:06 AM
i'd much rather see fouls be assessed towards the next game for all offenders of flopping. that's really the only way to curb this. actual in-game consequences. not pocket-change fines that players will gladly pay for a chance to swing a game...

I agree..

lakerfan85
05-30-2013, 11:07 AM
I'm going to keep note of this post the next time you lose your **** when LeBron barely embellishes a play in which he's legitimately fouled. Because it certainly wouldn't be the first time you've done that.

My point stands: every team has floppers, every team has egregious floppers. It's a league-wide problem. People who pretend like only 3 or 4 guys do it or only 1 or 2 teams are going to find me arguing against them :shrug:

I disagree!! Please list every flopper per team.. Thanks..

sep11ie
05-30-2013, 11:09 AM
I can't wait till we have flagrant flop fouls.

xRipCity
05-30-2013, 11:11 AM
You know what is worse then flopping?

The move Kevin Durant (and some others) do when being handchecked. The "swing under defender's arms and shoot" move. It is an automatic foul, and for Durant, he averages 1.81 points from 2 and 2.715 points from 3 when he successfully pulls off the move.

IT. ISN'T. BASKETBALL. He used it in many clutch situations to automatically get to the free throw line.

JiffyMix88
05-30-2013, 11:12 AM
I can't wait till we have flagrant flop fouls.

lmao!

xRipCity
05-30-2013, 11:12 AM
i'd much rather see fouls be assessed towards the next game for all offenders of flopping. that's really the only way to curb this. actual in-game consequences. not pocket-change fines that players will gladly pay for a chance to swing a game...

this statement is PERFECT and should be in every newspaper by tomorrow!

JiffyMix88
05-30-2013, 11:13 AM
You know what is worse then flopping?

The move Kevin Durant (and some others) do when being handchecked. The "swing under defender's arms and shoot" move. It is an automatic foul, and for Durant, he averages 1.81 points from 2 and 2.715 points from 3 when he successfully pulls off the move.

IT. ISN'T. BASKETBALL. He used it in many clutch situations to automatically get to the free throw line.

They need to keep their hand off his body then... Pretty simple concept.

lakerfan85
05-30-2013, 11:13 AM
You know what is worse then flopping?

The move Kevin Durant (and some others) do when being handchecked. The "swing under defender's arms and shoot" move. It is an automatic foul, and for Durant, he averages 1.81 points from 2 and 2.715 points from 3 when he successfully pulls off the move.

IT. ISN'T. BASKETBALL. He used it in many clutch situations to automatically get to the free throw line.

I think they changed that to where you only shoot free throws if you're in the penalty..

xRipCity
05-30-2013, 11:15 AM
I can't wait till we have flagrant flop fouls.

These will be reviewed of course and be on a scale of 1-6. Each number represents how many fouls you start with next game. A flagrant flop 1 will be an embellishment of a foul and 6 will be when Casper pushes you over and you will automatically be fouled out for your next game

SteBO
05-30-2013, 11:15 AM
That's not what he was implying at all.. If Miami is gonna be allowed to flop and get away with it most times why can't the Pacers try as well?? Quit being a homer!
Now you're justifying it......

xRipCity
05-30-2013, 11:16 AM
I think they changed that to where you only shoot free throws if you're in the penalty..

Yes but how often in a late game situation NOWADAYS is a game not in the penalty?

xRipCity
05-30-2013, 11:17 AM
They need to keep their hand off his body then... Pretty simple concept.

Wow... tell any retired NBA player that and they'd ask you what you've been smoking. Especially against a guy like Durant.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 11:18 AM
Leaders of the pack are going to get the blame. Furthermore, the best teams and best players in said pack are going to get the majority of the blame.

I understand flopping is a problem across the league, but IMO its mostly a problem on an individual basis. Most teams have flopping outliers, most of them are crappy role players or Euros. Clips and Miami have a widespread problem that starts at the top of both teams. They are the only teams you can truly say have the same 4-5 guys who consistently flop like little girls on a nightly basis. 4-5 guys who are KNOWN floppers (Clips probably closer to 3 or 4 with Reggie gone). They are the only teams you can say set the flopping tone from the top with the team leaders and superstars. Not to mention they are high profile star-studded teams. Thats why they get called out the most.

You think people are gonna start complaining about Omri Casspi flopping on the 20 win Cavs or something?

colinskik
05-30-2013, 11:21 AM
Iím hesitant to even post this because it sounds like more bias posting Ö but it really is the way I interpreted these plays.

The Lebron Ė West double flop, I canít see how that isnít all on Lebron. He elbowed his way into West and fell on the floor like a ragdoll, while West simply stumbled back, arms in the air. Didnít even technically flop to the ground.

Same goes with the Stevenson ďflop.Ē So Ray Allen gives him a slight elbow to the chest, he overreacts slightly but doesnít flop to the floor. This should be a no call. These arenít the typical types of flops, and I certainly donít think they warrant fines.

Shmontaine
05-30-2013, 11:24 AM
this statement is PERFECT and should be in every newspaper by tomorrow!

Why thank you..

to put it in perspective:

$5K fine for lebron = 0.0285% of his $17,545,000 NBA salary for this year.

That equivalent of a person who makes $75K a year being fined $21.37 for unethical behavior/cheating/gaining an unfair advantage in the workplace.

so not only does this mean nothing, it means less for the biggest stars than it does for other players who don't make as much. would you care about a $20 fine if it meant making a sale based off of inside information?

justinnum1
05-30-2013, 11:26 AM
Awesome

xRipCity
05-30-2013, 11:28 AM
Why thank you..

to put it in perspective:

$5K fine for lebron = 0.0285% of his $17,545,000 NBA salary for this year.

That equivalent of a person who makes $75K a year being fined $21.37 for unethical behavior/cheating/gaining an unfair advantage in the workplace.

so not only does this mean nothing, it means less for the biggest stars than it does for other players who don't make as much. would you care about a $20 fine if it meant making a sale based off of inside information?

You sir are a scholar. This is the point I have been trying to make in many other threads.

Even though the fines continue to increase, 10k, 15k, 30k, etc. It still means nothing. It is still pocket change. If these flops counted as fouls to LeBron, they would be worth way more to the Pacers in the game and also monetarily. Pacers would pay hundreds of thousands or millions to have LeBron foul out of a game at this point in the series.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 11:29 AM
the heat might do it more than some teams (and less than others, like the clippers and spurs), but they get focused on the most because, well, they're better than those other teams.

Which is why they should do it less than other teams. They are already the best team, why do they have to compromise their integrity?

justinnum1
05-30-2013, 11:32 AM
the heat might do it more than some teams (and less than others, like the clippers and spurs), but they get focused on the most because, well, they're better than those other teams.

Which is why they should do it less than other teams. They are already the best team, why do they have to compromise their integrity?

Other teams are doing it and getting away with it. In a playoff game, if it costs 5k to get an extra possession or some free throws its worth it.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 11:32 AM
I don't think its realistic to think refs are gonna be able to call a flop in the middle of a game. Its gotta be the most difficult sport to officiate by far already. It would be nice, but its not realistic and it would be too much to ask of the referees. Thats one thing ManRam and I can agree on.

Slug3
05-30-2013, 11:35 AM
That's not what he was implying at all.. If Miami is gonna be allowed to flop and get away with it most times why can't the Pacers try as well?? Quit being a homer!

I think it's that when its Miami every shouts "flop flop flop". But now people are saying when Indy does it that it's ok cause Miami is doing and and then just turn a blind eye. In reality it should not be ok for any team.

Slug3
05-30-2013, 11:37 AM
Other teams are doing it and getting away with it. In a playoff game, if it costs 5k to get an extra possession or some free throws its worth it.

You mean how Paul George did it in game one to Wade to get 3 FTs in OT?

Shmontaine
05-30-2013, 11:41 AM
You mean how Paul George did it in game one to Wade to get 3 FTs in OT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb44Ew22Oxg

??? please explain the flop? or did he not get hit on the elbow there?

MonroeFAN
05-30-2013, 11:42 AM
Detroit has no floppers. Probably why we don't win any games.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 11:43 AM
I think people have to stop holding all flops as equals. Drawing a charge, kicking a leg out on a 3, embellishing legitimate contact a little bit, little guys being sent flying by big guys shouldn't be held to the same standard as completely manufacturing contact that wasn't there or a 6'8 260lber getting ragdolled after a shoulder brush from a 5'10 midget point guard. Flops are flops, but there are certain flops that are outrageous and embarrassing to the game (i.e Tony Allen, LeBron with Augustin, the CP3 flop he got fined for etc..) and certain flops that you can give a pass to (pretty much every drawn charge, a little Paul Pierce shoulder jerk to sell contact etc..).

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 11:47 AM
Other teams are doing it and getting away with it. In a playoff game, if it costs 5k to get an extra possession or some free throws its worth it.

You're missing the point; not that I'm surprised, since it has to do with integrity.

Heatcheck
05-30-2013, 11:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb44Ew22Oxg

??? please explain the flop? or did he not get hit on the elbow there?

he touched his hand after the shot, cmon

Minimal
05-30-2013, 11:51 AM
Thats great. Only I don't know why they didn't fine Wade for flopping.

Heatcheck
05-30-2013, 11:54 AM
no that is the point...their on top so any excuse people jump on any excuse they can find to detract merit, forget that the whole league does it and since no one is going to list all the examples of, or breakdown film to show the actual bad calls and how they more or less even out, people can make whatever statement they want and get a bunch of people to cosign

Shmontaine
05-30-2013, 11:56 AM
he touched his hand after the shot, cmon

he hit his elbow on the shot... that was the foul. it had nothing to do with the hand. you can see wade talking about on the sideline in the clip..

Heatcheck
05-30-2013, 11:58 AM
he didnt even reach him until the ball was OUT of his hand.

colinskik
05-30-2013, 12:04 PM
he didnt even reach him until the ball was OUT of his hand.

He hit his hand on the shot. Anytime a shot misses like that, it’s almost always because the shooter was hit on the arm while shooting. There should be no debating this point. It’s Wade’s fault for even coming close to him on that type of shot.

--23--
05-30-2013, 12:09 PM
:speechless: About time.



Other teams are doing it and getting away with it. In a playoff game, if it costs 5k to get an extra possession or some free throws its worth it.

This comment is why i think the flop rules are meaningless and would not be effective until they make some harsh punishments.

Pacerlive
05-30-2013, 12:14 PM
I doubt LeBron gets fined if one he didn't make those comments before the game AND if David didn't co-flop with him.

Stephenson shouldn't have been fined IMO since who doesn't pull there head back if someone throws an elbow at your head. IF he had gone to floor and covered his face then i would be ok with a large fine but this wasn't a Tony Allen moment.

Lakers Ghost
05-30-2013, 12:24 PM
finally Miami gets fined for something. wtf is wrong with the league whe the best player in the league is flopping.

Htownballa1622
05-30-2013, 12:28 PM
I doubt LeBron gets fined if one he didn't make those comments before the game AND if David didn't co-flop with him.

Stephenson shouldn't have been fined IMO since who doesn't pull there head back if someone throws an elbow at your head. IF he had gone to floor and covered his face then i would be ok with a large fine but this wasn't a Tony Allen moment.

Yes, Stephenson should have been fined. He flopped a couple of times

kdspurman
05-30-2013, 12:50 PM
the heat might do it more than some teams (and less than others, like the clippers and spurs), but they get focused on the most because, well, they're better than those other teams.

I don't think it has to do with them being better or anything, I think it's just the focus being on Lebron, Wade, & Bosh. Just like if Kobe flopped or had a few bad ones (with his team struggling this year) the focus would be on him, and the outcry would be there from the fans too.

I think the big named guys will always have more of the spotlight on them.

Flopping used to be if you get hit, or in there's contact, you fall or sell it. Nowadays, it just seems guys do it with little-to no contact at times. Those are the ones that are bad lol.

29$JerZ
05-30-2013, 12:59 PM
i always felt fines were the wrong way to go about it. it's especially the wrong way to go about it because they really are hesitant to do so. it seems like they fined a few guys early in the season then stopped caring about it basically until now.

let refs call techs for egregious flops. i'm not talking about a guy falling a little more dramatically than normal while actually truly being fouled. i'm talking legit flops - where a player tries to turn NOTHING into something. the problem with that is that the refs already have an impossible job to do. adding this would probably be as inconsistent as anything else already is.

The whole suspension aspect of punishment wouldn't translate very well into practice.
The fine is a decent start to attempting some solution to this problem but its far from a good idea.
Imo the best way to see flopping severely reduced is to have a 4th ref monitor the game via Television/replay and inform the other refs if it was a flop or not. It would make the game slightly longer but that would be the best way to fairly call out these flops.

blahblahyoutoo
05-30-2013, 01:16 PM
The whole suspension aspect of punishment wouldn't translate very well into practice.
The fine is a decent start to attempting some solution to this problem but its far from a good idea.
Imo the best way to see flopping severely reduced is to have a 4th ref monitor the game via Television/replay and inform the other refs if it was a flop or not. It would make the game slightly longer but that would be the best way to fairly call out these flops.

agreed. need a ref or even a team of technicians manning a booth full of TV screens and instant access to replays from different camera angles.

blahblahyoutoo
05-30-2013, 01:18 PM
Why thank you..

to put it in perspective:

$5K fine for lebron = 0.0285% of his $17,545,000 NBA salary for this year.

That equivalent of a person who makes $75K a year being fined $21.37 for unethical behavior/cheating/gaining an unfair advantage in the workplace.

so not only does this mean nothing, it means less for the biggest stars than it does for other players who don't make as much. would you care about a $20 fine if it meant making a sale based off of inside information?

the point of the fine is not so much to hurt them financially, but also as a means to publicly shame them.
no one wants the reputation of being a flopper, and this is the way to announce them officially as floppers.

Shmontaine
05-30-2013, 01:24 PM
the point of the fine is not so much to hurt them financially, but also as a means to publicly shame them.
no one wants the reputation of being a flopper, and this is the way to announce them officially as floppers.

i guess my point is that the league can public shame a person for flopping at the same time they assess a personal foul towards the next game. those are real consequences. not name calling and dime-taking..

JC_
05-30-2013, 01:25 PM
I don't think its realistic to think refs are gonna be able to call a flop in the middle of a game. Its gotta be the most difficult sport to officiate by far already. It would be nice, but its not realistic and it would be too much to ask of the referees. Thats one thing ManRam and I can agree on.

Refs need to be better than they are. No offense to any of the older people on this site but these NBA refs are old as hell, it's suspect to have some of these guys still ref'ing. Yes, they are experienced and will do what Stern and co wants them to do but ****, I bet there are very talented refs out there that aren't so old and a lot quicker.

Regarding the OP, I'm pretty sure Lebron wouldn't have gotten fined if he hadn't done that flopping interview. Hibbert has flopped a bunch of times this series but he's stayed out of drama so there's no flopping spotlight on him.

JC_
05-30-2013, 01:31 PM
One thing that is pretty funny about this is all of the people posting and hyping up that pic because Lebron flopped ended up getting David West fined and he is now considered a flopper. I can imagine how angry West probably got when he heard he was being fined lol.

Teeboy1487
05-30-2013, 01:36 PM
I'm still amazed Battier did not make this list. He's been the worst of them all to me.

Max.This
05-30-2013, 01:39 PM
There should be more people on that list. Lebron should get fined for just looking plain stupid on that flop. David west atleast stayed on his feet .

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 01:46 PM
Refs need to be better than they are. No offense to any of the older people on this site but these NBA refs are old as hell, it's suspect to have some of these guys still ref'ing. Yes, they are experienced and will do what Stern and co wants them to do but ****, I bet there are very talented refs out there that aren't so old and a lot quicker.

Regarding the OP, I'm pretty sure Lebron wouldn't have gotten fined if he hadn't done that flopping interview. Hibbert has flopped a bunch of times this series but he's stayed out of drama so there's no flopping spotlight on him.

I have stated a bunch of times here I think the age of the refs is a big problem. The game passes players by, coaches by, announcers by, and it also passes officials by. I completely agree with you there. These long time refs are also on bigger power trips, they want to be noticed, they want to make the statement calls, they want to remind everyone they are the boss. I think with younger, hungrier, and humbler referees some of that stuff would go away.

But I mean, how can they really expect guys who are pushing 70 to be on point with these calls that happen in a blink of an eye?

ManRam
05-30-2013, 02:02 PM
Which is why they should do it less than other teams. They are already the best team, why do they have to compromise their integrity?

they're not obligated to play in a more pure way than any other team just because they're good.

like 'bron said, the league does nothing to stop it and lots of players take advantage of it, why shouldn't they? it was a weird comment because he denies he flops :laugh2: but his points remains. if the league isn't doing anything to stop it, and you can gain an advantage doing it, why not?

it's terrible. i hate it as much as you hate it, but it is what it is...and it's a widespread, league problem. and until something seriously is done to curb it it's going to keep happening like it has for decades now. it's happening with higher frequency now because players have evolved this way.

SteBO
05-30-2013, 02:10 PM
I'm still amazed Battier did not make this list. He's been the worst of them all to me.
Stephenson, West, and LeBron's flopping antics were way more blatant but I'm kinda surprised too. No doubt Battier's been the worst of all of them in this series, but he's so crafty about it to the point it always looks like he's being tossed around (he kinda is, but he exaggerates a ton). Not many other players in the league can hide it was well he can considering he's under the eye of professional NBA officials. As fans like you and me however, it's pretty clear.

Heatcheck
05-30-2013, 02:14 PM
finally Miami gets fined for something. wtf is wrong with the league whe the best player in the league is flopping.

the best player in the league has been a flopper since jordan

Cali4rnia
05-30-2013, 02:17 PM
Money isnt a huge factor its the image that will ruin them. It's sad to be known as flopper (cheater).

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:26 PM
The good ole "eye for an eye". So you are now saying it is ok for Indy ti flop cause Miami was doing it. Is there where we are starting to head to now?

that guy is a big time hater, even though he may deny it.

Tony_Starks
05-30-2013, 02:31 PM
Stevenson was begging for his flop fine. Lebron and West had a flop-off. Lebron should've been fined more because he was clearly the winner....

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 02:33 PM
they're not obligated to play in a more pure way than any other team just because they're good.

like 'bron said, the league does nothing to stop it and lots of players take advantage of it, why shouldn't they? it was a weird comment because he denies he flops :laugh2: but his points remains. if the league isn't doing anything to stop it, and you can gain an advantage doing it, why not?

it's terrible. i hate it as much as you hate it, but it is what it is...and it's a widespread, league problem. and until something seriously is done to curb it it's going to keep happening like it has for decades now. it's happening with higher frequency now because players have evolved this way.

You're right, it's wrong of me to expect these guys to play the game the right way. I'm being completely serious when I say this too. I suppose I would like to think that if I were Lebron, or had the respect of so many people I would try and make the game better instead of worse. The league would like him even more then.

I don't know the whole thing is just so frustrating as a life-long fan of the NBA. After the last game I honestly thought about quitting watching basketball...two different times. It's just so sad (and I mean in the way a 5 year old feels when he gets his favorite toy stolen) that the best player, and team, in the league is contributing more than almost anyone to the biggest problem in the league. And it's just as sad to see people be able to get behind it and excuse them.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 02:34 PM
that guy is a big time hater, even though he may deny it.

How can you use the term hater when there are so many obvious reasons to dislike the guy? Hating him is almost justified by now if you look past his box scores.

tr3ymill3r
05-30-2013, 02:37 PM
LeBron has no right to question, complain or argue the 6th foul he received after that awful acting job, he needs to call Shaq so he can teach him his acting moves.

Supreme LA
05-30-2013, 02:49 PM
the best player in the league has been a flopper since jordan

Please. MJ never threw his own body to the ground after a play where contact was never made.

Hardaway Here
05-30-2013, 02:52 PM
I find it funny that people actually stated that Pacers only flopped because the Heat flopped. That makes no damn sense. If that isn't just blind hate I don't know what is. Like I said in the opening post. Every team has floppers and every game has floppers. To only say one team does it and only decide to condemn one team for it is just ridiculous.

Supreme LA
05-30-2013, 02:55 PM
You're right, it's wrong of me to expect these guys to play the game the right way. I'm being completely serious when I say this too. I suppose I would like to think that if I were Lebron, or had the respect of so many people I would try and make the game better instead of worse. The league would like him even more then.

I don't know the whole thing is just so frustrating as a life-long fan of the NBA. After the last game I honestly thought about quitting watching basketball...two different times. It's just so sad (and I mean in the way a 5 year old feels when he gets his favorite toy stolen) that the best player, and team, in the league is contributing more than almost anyone to the biggest problem in the league. And it's just as sad to see people be able to get behind it and excuse them.

I totlly agree. I get disappointed when I realize that kids are actually watching these guys and will probably incorporate flopping as part of their games now. It never bothered when guys would take a hit at the center of the chest and just drew a charge by exaggerating a little bit but when the superstars of today are throwing their bodies on the floor after little or no contact it really says something about the state of the game and something we definitely need to remedy quick. That kind of flopping has no part in the game.

Supreme LA
05-30-2013, 03:01 PM
I find it funny that people actually stated that Pacers only flopped because the Heat flopped. That makes no damn sense. If that isn't just blind hate I don't know what is. Like I said in the opening post. Every team has floppers and every game has floppers. To only say one team does it and only decide to condemn one team for it is just ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Lol.

Slug3
05-30-2013, 03:09 PM
You can't be serious. Lol.

I am not sure what you mean by this? Are you saying that only Miami flops or something? I have seen many Laker players flop as well.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 03:13 PM
I am not sure what you mean by this? Are you saying that only Miami flops or something? I have seen many Laker players flop as well.

Miami and the Clips are the only two teams that have 4-5 bonafide, every-night floppers and the only two teams where the superstars are the ones leading the flop brigade. Every team has flopping outliers, crappy role players trying to get an edge, Euro's using the soccer flop etc...

But Miami and Clips are leading the pack as far as superstars flopping their balls off and having widespread floppers all over the lineup. They are the only two teams you see beasts of physical specimens turn into ballerinas when touched on the shoulder by a midget point guard. They are the worst of the worst. They are holding the torch.

ATX
05-30-2013, 03:20 PM
Nothing left to root for for Knicks/Lakers/Bulls fans, so then what to do?? GO back to doing what they do best and hate on the Heat in every concievable way possible....Going to the ends of their imaginations to discredit the reigning Champs...Day in, day out.

STAT1
05-30-2013, 03:31 PM
It's sad that flopping, regardless of who does it, is taking away from the actual sport itself. It's what reporters are asking about, ESPN headlines, fans discussions, etc. it's sickening. It'll probably be a player attribute on NBA 2k14.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:46 PM
How can you use the term hater when there are so many obvious reasons to dislike the guy? Hating him is almost justified by now if you look past his box scores.

its not really justified, hes a great role model with no criminal past, most of the people who hate him hate him for petty things a female would complain about.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 03:52 PM
its not really justified, hes a great role model with no criminal past, most of the people who hate him hate him for petty things a female would complain about.

So characteristics such as loyalty, humility, and integrity should just be overlooked? Those are masculine traits that Lebron is missing, nothing feminine about calling him out on that and not respecting him as a person because of it.

sunnyice
05-30-2013, 03:55 PM
You know what is worse then flopping?

The move Kevin Durant (and some others) do when being handchecked. The "swing under defender's arms and shoot" move. It is an automatic foul, and for Durant, he averages 1.81 points from 2 and 2.715 points from 3 when he successfully pulls off the move.

IT. ISN'T. BASKETBALL. He used it in many clutch situations to automatically get to the free throw line.

Kobe also loves that move. Lebron should learn that move.

29$JerZ
05-30-2013, 04:04 PM
Nothing left to root for for Knicks/Lakers/Bulls fans, so then what to do?? GO back to doing what they do best and hate on the Heat in every concievable way possible....Going to the ends of their imaginations to discredit the reigning Champs...Day in, day out.

No one is discrediting the HEAT.
They are the defending champs and have the best player in the NBA.
They also have quite the collection of floppers.
That's pretty much all that is being said

STAT1
05-30-2013, 04:12 PM
You know what is worse then flopping?

The move Kevin Durant (and some others) do when being handchecked. The "swing under defender's arms and shoot" move. It is an automatic foul, and for Durant, he averages 1.81 points from 2 and 2.715 points from 3 when he successfully pulls off the move.

IT. ISN'T. BASKETBALL. He used it in many clutch situations to automatically get to the free throw line.
Seriously? That's worse than flopping? Haha ok.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-30-2013, 04:15 PM
They only included Lebron in the fine to make it seem fair. The league would never punish Lebron and the Flopping Heat.

Shmontaine
05-30-2013, 04:22 PM
its not really justified, hes a great role model with no criminal past, most of the people who hate him hate him for petty things a female would complain about.

guess it's too much to ask to not insult posters who may not like lebron or the heat, right?

dtmagnet
05-30-2013, 04:30 PM
But not for Wade's obvious flop?

natelpete
05-30-2013, 04:33 PM
I think its pretty clear Indiana's flopping was in retaliation to Miami. Just look at their flopping antics in games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2.

I like how it can be excused when the Pacers do it, but the Heat are all going when they do it.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:37 PM
So characteristics such as loyalty, humility, and integrity should just be overlooked? Those are masculine traits that Lebron is missing, nothing feminine about calling him out on that and not respecting him as a person because of it.

theres no loyalty in basketball, team always trade players .. without even consulting them, and they say its a business,humility i would agree, he got humbled in the 2011 finals ever since i don't think he has been as much of a douchebag, still no reason to hate, but hey its basketball they are paid millions we should be allowed to irrationally hate them.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:39 PM
guess it's too much to ask to not insult posters who may not like lebron or the heat, right?

i didn't insult him, but if you took offense i guess it applies to you.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 04:45 PM
theres no loyalty in basketball, team always trade players .. Without even consulting them, and they say its a business,humility i would agree, he got humbled in the 2011 finals ever since i don't think he has been as much of a douchebag, still no reason to hate, but hey its basketball they are paid millions we should be allowed to irrationally hate them.

lol

Celticsfan2007
05-30-2013, 05:25 PM
The saddest part about flopping in todays NBA, is the fact that it takes away so much attention from the actual game of basketball.

Look at all the news headlines today. It's not about the Pacers vs. Heat, but about one players flop vs. the other.

The game of basketball doesn't deserve this.

t_money25
05-30-2013, 05:26 PM
I'm loving the negative attention the Heat is getting here on PSD. I guess if you can't beat em, just hate on them lol......Lets GO Heat!!!

amos1er
05-30-2013, 05:31 PM
Lebron and Wade are way too good to be such big floppers.

Teeboy1487
05-30-2013, 05:57 PM
I don't why people are making this a personal issue because I think Lebron is a great person with unquestioned humility by the way he carries himself. My issue with him relies in the flopping. I hate flopping especially coming from a player of his caliber. It's the reason I always hated watching Reggie Miller. Don't get me started on Vlade Divac. I don't hate Lebron at all. I wish the flopping would stop. That goes for Battier, West and Stephenson as well. All the flopping is killing the games for me. I only watch the 4th quarters.