PDA

View Full Version : Torts fired!



NYflightboy
05-29-2013, 01:08 PM
New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers 6m
BREAKING NEWS: The #NYR have relieved John Tortorella of his coaching duties...details to follow

teddygreen17
05-29-2013, 01:09 PM
Details to follow on http://****************.com/.

nyr2002nyr
05-29-2013, 01:09 PM
YESSSSSSSSSSS After hearing Hank saying a few things it had to happen

teddygreen17
05-29-2013, 01:09 PM
Been waiting for this. Now we can get a coach that knows what he is doing on offense so our power play doesn't like like Richards' skating this year.

https://www.facebook.com/nyrangers?hc_location=stream

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 01:14 PM
well, there you go. Nash better start producing like a beast now. And kreider betetr show up. And cally. And hagelin. And Stepan.

We will find out almost immediately if this really was due to Torts.

Now, who do we get to take his place?

bsi
05-29-2013, 01:14 PM
Thanks for helping us make the next step but your benchings and unwillingness to adjust on the fly sunk you. Hopefully we finally get someone who can draw up a working PP because if we do, we're as good as anyone in the league.

Toon88
05-29-2013, 01:15 PM
Great news I got sick and tired of seeing his dump the puck in the corners and go chase it. No offensive philosphy and his coaching of the power play alone would be enough to get you canned. So who are the options to replace him?

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 01:17 PM
Now who?

Toon88
05-29-2013, 01:19 PM
well, there you go. Nash better start producing like a beast now. And kreider betetr show up. And cally. And hagelin. And Stepan.

We will find out almost immediately if this really was due to Torts.

Now, who do we get to take his place?

On these boards someone mentioned the former coach of the Canucks. The way Tort handled Kreider this year was criminal. He should have plugged hin there and let him develop. We just lost a year of his development because of Torterella.

bsi
05-29-2013, 01:21 PM
Alain Vigneaut would be my first thought, however I don't really know of who is all available either. With guys like Richards, Nash, Lundqvist I'm assuming it'll be someone with experience but I keep hearing Dallas Eakins name come up as a young guy that teams want.

nyr2002nyr
05-29-2013, 01:23 PM
Ruff

bsi
05-29-2013, 01:37 PM
Ruff

I'm a little hesitant about Ruff really. I mean what's he really done lately? Not sure if he'd have better results here than he did in Buffalo. He's missed the playoffs in over half of his years in Buffalo. I know they went to the finals but that was ages ago.

Swift n Sil3nt
05-29-2013, 01:40 PM
On these boards someone mentioned the former coach of the Canucks. The way Tort handled Kreider this year was criminal. He should have plugged hin there and let him develop. We just lost a year of his development because of Torterella.

This day just couldn't get any better.

nyr2002nyr
05-29-2013, 01:44 PM
I'm a little hesitant about Ruff really. I mean what's he really done lately? Not sure if he'd have better results here than he did in Buffalo. He's missed the playoffs in over half of his years in Buffalo. I know they went to the finals but that was ages ago.

That was really the only time they even had a decent team

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 01:45 PM
Clearly Hank let the FO know where he stood on that situation

Swift n Sil3nt
05-29-2013, 01:46 PM
This is something I have been saying for a few years now. Thank you for putting us back on the map, but you were not going to put us over the hill. This is just truly fantastic.

I'd love to give Messier a shot, but I want someone that has experience and offensive expertise.

bsi
05-29-2013, 02:03 PM
I think Hanks comments definately sealed the deal here. It's the first time I've ever heard him even question whether he'd come back to the Rangers, and that's a strong statement right there.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 02:03 PM
When will Sather be held accountable? Never!

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 02:11 PM
I thank John for all he has done here. I never want to see anyone lose their job but I do totally agree with this move. I have explained over and over why I did not like what I saw from the team in terms of our offensive break out, our defensive system and our PP.

Now lets hope Slats finds somebody who is good at x and o's who can help with a new breakout and powerplay scheme.

liltedspop
05-29-2013, 02:13 PM
I'd expect Lindy Ruff to be named coach within a matter of days.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 02:16 PM
I'd prefer some fresh coaching talent to Ruff. We have time. No need to name a replacement right away unless we are 100% sure about the guy.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 02:23 PM
On one hand it is shocking but on the other hand I thought he was a few losses away from being fired with 15 games to go in the season so I'm not shocked. Torts did some good things but I felt we would be worse not better next season if a change was not made.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 02:32 PM
New York Rangers New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers
"I am very appreciative of what Torts has done here" - Glen Sather

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Sather: "I think he (Torts) was a little bit shocked."

New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers
"I would like to have it (Coaching Decision) over by the draft this year" - Glen Sather #NYR

Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord
Sather said for Rangers to reach goal of winning Cup, this was decision he felt he had to make.

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Sather: "Wasn't one thing.."

New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers
"This is the decision that I made...I think I made the right decision" - Glen Sather #NYR

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Sather: "Every coach has a shelf life."

New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers
"It wasn't one specific thing...it was more of a decision on how we get better and challenge for the Stanley Cup" - Glen Sather #NYR

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Sather said he made decision himself...after consultations

Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#NYR Sather on assistant coach Mike Sullivan: "We haven't made any further decisions."

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Assistant Mike Sullivan remains at this point...

New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers
"I think he (Chris Kreider) is going to be a good player here for a long time & hopefully becomes a great player. - Glen Sather #NYR

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Sather: "There's a lot of good coaches around with different qualities..."
Sather: "We plan on signing Henrik to a long-term contract...had nothing to do with this."

Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord
Sather: "We'll find the right guy." Won't discuss specifics of what he's looking for in new coach.
Seems to be a pause in info, either it's over or Slats needed a new cigar to chew on.

New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers
"I think if you are not in the Stanley Cup and not winning it your season hasn't been a success." - Glen Sather #NYR

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay

Sather: Not thinking about Richards situation at moment...


Steve Zipay Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay

Sather: "Can't predict what new coach's system will be like"

metswon69
05-29-2013, 02:36 PM
This stuns the **** out of me.

I thought Torts getting into the second round would have bought him another year.

MJL80
05-29-2013, 02:37 PM
Clearly Hank let the FO know where he stood on that situation

Exactly..,... Hank's reaction the other day regardng the extension "we'll see" meant that he wasn't signing crap if Torts was the coach of this team.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 02:38 PM
Slats says Hank did not play a roll but you never know. He could be protecting a private conversation.

Slats did say they plan to resign Hank to an extension.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 02:38 PM
Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord
Sather: "We'll find the right guy." Won't discuss specifics of what he's looking for in new coach.
Seems to be a pause in info, either it's over or Slats needed a new cigar to chew on.


I'm not as confident. Hasn't found one yet. Maybe he should take another crack at coaching himself.

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 02:41 PM
I'm not too sold on bringing in a young coach with little experience like some of you are saying. I am also not sold on Lindy Rupp.

I'd take Vigneault but after that I'm not sure who's even available. We need someone who has proven he can open the offense up.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 02:42 PM
I'm not as confident. Hasn't found one yet. Maybe he should take another crack at coaching himself.

If he was 20 years younger I would agree with you on Slats coaching himself. Coaching pro sports is like a 18 hour a day job nowadays. You are right Slats has not been great at picking coaches but his last two coaches have been good (not great). I would like to see Brian Leetch brought in to work on the PP.

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 02:42 PM
Slats says Hank did not play a roll but you never know. He could be protecting a private conversation.

Slats did say they plan to resign Hank to an extension.

Clearly he is not going to publicly say that one of his players requested that the coach be fired haha... I think anyone with half a brain can put 2 and 2 together here. Hank had something to do with this and IMO, Slats did the right thing by listening to Hank and ultimately firing Torts.

puckhead54
05-29-2013, 02:43 PM
My feelings are to consider the following 4 coaches even though the Rangers will have to ask permission to talk to 3 of them they are 1) Alain Vigneault - available
2) Willie Desjardins - Texas Stars
3) Dallas Eakins - Toronto Marlies
4) Bruce Cassidy - Providence Bruins
If the asking price is to much to talk to the bottom 3 then Vigneault is my choice

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 02:44 PM
Slats is in declining health and he is already getting up there in age. No shot he returns to the bench. People say Mike Keenan, but I highly doubt that too.

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 02:45 PM
Do you guys think that :

1: hank was serious about piossibly not re-signing

2: It was just about Torts

3: Hank will wait to re-sign until after Sather hires a new coach?

metswon69
05-29-2013, 02:47 PM
It's hard not to like Vigneault, that PP in Vancouver was always good and their goalie play wasn't sacrificed even with their more wide open style.

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 02:49 PM
I'm not gonna sit here and give vigneault 100% credit for that pp though... Look at their personnel.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 02:51 PM
It's hard not to like Vigneault, that PP in Vancouver was always good and their goalie play wasn't sacrificed even with their more wide open style.

Maybe we can get the Sedins, too? :D

I guess Tippet's the favorite?

metswon69
05-29-2013, 02:54 PM
Maybe we can get the Sedins, too? :D

I guess Tippet's the favorite?

Yeah i know :D but the Rangers have playmakers that obviously under performed with Torts.

Hopefully with a more wide open style some of those guys will look better on the PP.

metswon69
05-29-2013, 02:54 PM
Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl now

Sather said Lundqvist's comments didn't have anything to do with his decision to fire Tortorella. He stressed that it was his decision.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 02:55 PM
Slats is in declining health and he is already getting up there in age. No shot he returns to the bench. People say Mike Keenan, but I highly doubt that too.

I wasn't being serious about him coaching. That was a disaster.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 02:56 PM
Yeah i know :D but the Rangers have playmakers that obviously under performed with Torts.

Hopefully with a more wide open style some of those guys will look better on the PP.

Let's say they buy out Richards. Who's their playmaker?

metswon69
05-29-2013, 03:00 PM
Let's say they buy out Richards. Who's their playmaker?

Would still be Stepan, Brassard, and Callahan is underrated with the puck imo. Even Zukes could be more effective offensively with a newer style of play (if they bring him back)

Their PP was better as the season went on but they ran through the same problems in the playoffs they have through most of Tort's tenure.

I think that will change under a new coach.

beast023
05-29-2013, 03:02 PM
step brass zuc miller... or did u mean their playmaker making way too much money

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 03:07 PM
Would still be Stepan, Brassard, and Callahan is underrated with the puck imo. Even Zukes could be more effective offensively with a newer style of play (if they bring him back)

Their PP was better as the season went on but they ran through the same problems in the playoffs they have through most of Tort's tenure.

I think that will change under a new coach.

That's not a group that I feel very confident about. The only place Callahan really succeeded on the PP was in front of the net, he's by no means a playmaker. He's a physical north/south forward. Brassard looked great in his short time hear but he's barely over half a point per game scorer in his career. Maybe Stepan really steps up his game but he's never been much of a playmaker. AV had a Hart winner as well as his twin brother running the PP grouped with really good blueliners.

nyr2002nyr
05-29-2013, 03:09 PM
When will Sather be held accountable? Never!

I know it's sickening

oak2455
05-29-2013, 03:09 PM
YESSSSSSSSSSS After hearing Hank saying a few things it had to happen

I thought the same

onlythisfar41
05-29-2013, 03:18 PM
Clearly Hank let the FO know where he stood on that situation

Well we all knew this had to happen. I honestly didn't have as much of a problem with him as most Ranger fans do but I'm excited to see who we bring in and how hopefully the offense can be transformed.

beast023
05-29-2013, 03:26 PM
just a list of guys who don't currently have an nhl coaching job:
Scotty Bowman
Pat Quinn
Mike Keenan
Ron Wilson
Jacques Lemaire
Lindy Ruff
Marc Crawford
Terry Murray
Paul Maurice
Larry Robinson
Alain Vigneault
Guy Carbonneau
Dale Hunter
Guy Boucher

i know some of these guys are old or might not want to coach for us but just a list

metswon69
05-29-2013, 03:38 PM
That's not a group that I feel very confident about. The only place Callahan really succeeded on the PP was in front of the net, he's by no means a playmaker. He's a physical north/south forward. Brassard looked great in his short time hear but he's barely over half a point per game scorer in his career. Maybe Stepan really steps up his game but he's never been much of a playmaker. AV had a Hart winner as well as his twin brother running the PP grouped with really good blueliners.

I still think a change in philosophy will help their PP and just opening up their scoring more in general. Certainly better than 23rd in PP% the last 2 seasons. That was always Tort's bugaboo here.

The offense was stifled by their style of play. Not to say they will become an offensive juggernaut with a new coach but i think guys like Kreider, Hagelin, Richards (if he is still here) will be better.

This Rangers still need better personnel granted but some of their struggles was certainly on the coaching.

bsi
05-29-2013, 03:49 PM
Would still be Stepan, Brassard, and Callahan is underrated with the puck imo. Even Zukes could be more effective offensively with a newer style of play (if they bring him back)

Their PP was better as the season went on but they ran through the same problems in the playoffs they have through most of Tort's tenure.

I think that will change under a new coach.

Callahan is a good player but he never passes. Having said that we'll be better with a new system and hopefully a coach that builds up their players instead of tearing them down. DelZotto and McDonagh are capable of carrying a PP but they are nervous to make a mistake, a coach that lets them play will do a lot for our PP IMO. Same goes for Brassard, Nash, Stepan etc.

NYR_NYJ
05-29-2013, 03:53 PM
it was clear that Torts message ran stale this year. He had a nice tenure but he was also stubborn as a mule

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 03:56 PM
I still think a change in philosophy will help their PP and just opening up their scoring more in general. Certainly better than 23rd in PP% the last 2 seasons. That was always Tort's bugaboo here.

The offense was stifled by their style of play. Not to say they will become an offensive juggernaut with a new coach but i think guys like Kreider, Hagelin, Richards (if he is still here) will be better.

This Rangers still need better personnel granted but some of their struggles was certainly on the coaching.

They were 29th the year Renney was fired. They haven't been good since Jagr was killing it on the power play with Straka and Nylander. Great players run great power plays.

MJL80
05-29-2013, 04:10 PM
They were 29th the year Renney was fired. They haven't been good since Jagr was killing it on the power play with Straka and Nylander. Great players run great power plays.

I miss Nylander and Jagr are the PP...... that was awesome

NYSPORTS98
05-29-2013, 04:27 PM
Maybe we should check out Sather's resume without #11 and #99?

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 04:41 PM
How good was the Bruins PP in 2010 when they won? Everyone needs to stop focusing on the PP for a second. A coach can only do so much.

Torts was not fired solely because of our PP woes. Torts is gone because his system is not conducive to offense. He wants guys like Nash, Richards, and Gabby to be held accountable on the defensive end the same way a guy like Cally or Boyle is held accountable. It just does not make sense. The stars need to be put in position to score. Open things up and let guys like Stepan, Brassard (and possibly even Richards) create.

Torts coaches not to lose rather than to win. That is not how you get successful. He completely changed his style from when he was with Tampa. He did get us "over the hump" but he was too stubborn to make adjustments.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 05:50 PM
Reading a bit through the lines of Slats statements it looks like the players exit interviews may have influenced this decision. When he was asked about that he sidestepped the question instead of saying no. He said it was not just one thing. He also said it was not about the win/loss record and that all coaches have a shelf life. That also leads me to believe it was about the players.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 05:58 PM
Melrose just called Sather the luckiest GM in the league. He said he gets to live in the greatest city in the world and make a ton of money and he doesn't have to win. :laugh2:

metswon69
05-29-2013, 06:09 PM
Melrose just called Sather the luckiest GM in the league. He said he gets to live in the greatest city in the world and make a ton of money and he doesn't have to win. :laugh2:

We know Dolan isn't going to fire Slats. Look at the loyalty he's showed to Isaiah Thomas all those years while the Knicks stunk up the Garden night after night.

I think that's why Slats made the decision to can Torts because that style of hockey was getting harder and harder to win with and they only have so much of a window to do it.

J4K said it and its true. Torts coached not to lose and he was hesitant to play offensive oriented guys because he was all about defensive assignment hockey. You can do that with your lower line guys and your pairings on defense but you cant't strangle your top offensive guys all the time because they don't finish a check, block a shot, etc etc.

nyr1980
05-29-2013, 06:10 PM
I'd be all about some Marc Crawford. Know he's coaching in Switzerland and his stops in LA and DAL were unsuccessful, but he's an offensive coach, knows how to coach the PP and how to coach stars and let them play- namely guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Naslund, etc.


Also, whenever he's had goaltending and a good group of D-Men, his teams have been very good. I kind of give him a pass for LA cause no goaltending and DAL for no D.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 06:24 PM
We know Dolan isn't going to fire Slats. Look at the loyalty he's showed to Isaiah Thomas all those years while the Knicks stunk up the Garden night after night.

I think that's why Slats made the decision to can Torts because that style of hockey was getting harder and harder to win with and they only have so much of a window to do it.

J4K said it and its true. Torts coached not to lose and he was hesitant to play offensive oriented guys because he was all about defensive assignment hockey. You can do that with your lower line guys and your pairings on defense but you cant't strangle your top offensive guys all the time because they don't finish a check, block a shot, etc etc.

J4K said that Torts system doesn't work because he holds offensive players accountable for not playing defense. Think about that for a second.

I'm sorry but look how star forwards on recent cup teams play. Datsyuk and Zetterberg play INCREDIBLE defense. Crosby plays defense, Toews plays defense, Kopitar plays defense, Mike Richards plays defense, the whole Boston team takes care of their defensive responsibilities. They're all awesome backcheckers. Gaborik on the other hand didn't feel like doing that this year. Neither did Nash or Richards.

Boston would hold the puck in our end for a minute or two largely due to the fact that our forwards backchecked like crap in the series. Contrary to popular belief, Torts was pretty damn aggressive in that series. We consistently had a defender on the forecheck. It burned us big time in game two.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 06:34 PM
Looks like the players may have wanted him gone.


Stop coaching, Torts.

The Rangers fired John Tortorella as their head coach Wednesday afternoon with one year remaining on his contract after “multiple players,” including some “top guys,” wanted the fiery 53-year-old gone for good, according to a source.

General manager Glen Sather said in a conference call that Tortorella seemed “a little bit shocked” by his dismissal. It is unknown specifically which Rangers voiced their displeasure, but the frustration mounted high enough that Sather pulled the trigger after four-plus seasons.http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/tortorella-fired-head-coach-rangers-article-1.1357541

metswon69
05-29-2013, 06:52 PM
J4K said that Torts system doesn't work because he holds offensive players accountable for not playing defense. Think about that for a second.

I'm sorry but look how star forwards on recent cup teams play. Datsyuk and Zetterberg play INCREDIBLE defense. Crosby plays defense, Toews plays defense, Kopitar plays defense, Mike Richards plays defense, the whole Boston team takes care of their defensive responsibilities. They're all awesome backcheckers. Gaborik on the other hand didn't feel like doing that this year. Neither did Nash or Richards.

Boston would hold the puck in our end for a minute or two largely due to the fact that our forwards backchecked like crap in the series. Contrary to popular belief, Torts was pretty damn aggressive in that series. We consistently had a defender on the forecheck. It burned us big time in game two.

I never looked at Gabs as even an adequate defensive player. He was always a sniper, that was his thing. Sometimes guys are best played in their element and not what a coach wants to massage them to be. Certain guys get a reputation for being offensively minded.

There are players like that. Look at Jagr, Giroux, the Sedins, Kovalchuk, Moulson, etc etc.

As for Brad, i honestly think he just can't handle New York. Some guys aren't built for it. There were rumblings of that last season and certainly this year.

I am not saying that some of that isn't on Slats as well but this style of hockey was just too offensively challenged imo. Not just the PP but their overall style. The PP was just collateral damage and a symptom of a poor offensive team.

How many times was this team down 3-1 or 2-0 in the second period and you said to yourself "This game is over"? I know i did on plenty of occasions because there was little chance the Rangers would come back.

They won by grinding it out constantly trying to protect one goal leads. It just got incredibly frustrating to watch and they finally got burned by it against Boston (especially in game 3)

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 07:02 PM
I never looked at Gabs as even an adequate defensive player. He was always a sniper, that was his thing. Sometimes guys are best played in their element and not what a coach wants to massage them to be. Certain guys get a reputation for being offensively minded.

There are players like that. Look at Jagr, Giroux, the Sedins, Kovalchuk, Moulson, etc etc.

As for Brad, i honestly think he just can't handle New York. Some guys aren't built for it. There were rumblings of that last season and certainly this year.

I am not saying that some of that isn't on Slats as well but this style of hockey was just too offensively challenged imo. Not just the PP but their overall style. The PP was just collateral damage in that regard.

How many times was this team down 3-1 or 2-0 in the second period and you said to yourself "This game is over"? I know i did on plenty of occasions because in most instances there was little chance the Rangers would come back. Trying to protect one goal leads is constantly playing with fire.

My point being is that i would like to see more open hockey.

Giroux is a really good backchecker. At the end of the day they get away with it because they create offense. Well... Richards and Gaborik didn't create much offense this year. Gaborik didn't do any backchecking and Richards did very little. Backchecking doesn't hold you back offensively when you're not doing it.

Stepan played a good two way game this year, did that hold him back at all offensively?

I hear everyone's favorite phrase, "open it up". Sanchez supporters used it for years. Even when he threw 50 passes in the final game of the season against the Giants, Jets fans were still blaming Shotty for not "opening it up".

Nash had the puck on his stick all throughout the playoffs, had plenty of shooting opportunities. But he just didn't score. Torts can't jump on the ice and rip a corner for him. These players failed us offensively, that's why the Rangers didn't score a lot.

I'm tired of hearing how player x can't score in the system when player x has proved that he can score in that system in the past.

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 07:07 PM
J4K said that Torts system doesn't work because he holds offensive players accountable for not playing defense. Think about that for a second.

I'm sorry but look how star forwards on recent cup teams play. Datsyuk and Zetterberg play INCREDIBLE defense. Crosby plays defense, Toews plays defense, Kopitar plays defense, Mike Richards plays defense, the whole Boston team takes care of their defensive responsibilities. They're all awesome backcheckers. Gaborik on the other hand didn't feel like doing that this year. Neither did Nash or Richards.

Boston would hold the puck in our end for a minute or two largely due to the fact that our forwards backchecked like crap in the series. Contrary to popular belief, Torts was pretty damn aggressive in that series. We consistently had a defender on the forecheck. It burned us big time in game two.

Wait a second. I didn't say that guys like Nash and Gaborik should not be held accountable. I said that they can not have the same defensive responsibility that a guy like Callahan has. I believe that is fair. Of course Nash has to play defense, I never said he didn't.

As for your examples of star players that play solid/great defense (Crosby is too on and off imo) I'm sure you could just as easily list off guys that don't play as good of defense but their teams are still very good.

Torts handles guys like Cally, Dubi, and Prust a lot better than he handles Nash and Gaborik because he refuses to switch things around within the offense. The funny thing is that Torts had a ton of offensive fire power in TB and let those guys open things up. "safe is death" if I remember correctly.

As for his "aggressiveness" against Boston. Bringing the extra defender up to forecheck was a terrible idea and he was even too stubborn to stop doing that until midway through game 4. I don't consider that aggressive, I consider that to be stupid. We were playing Boston, a team that over the past 2 season we had good success against, and all of the sudden Torts decides he wants to change our style.

Listen, I have seen your posts in this forum as well as in the NHL forum and I am in complete agreement with the idea that Sather deserves to be canned and the idea that simply firing Torts does not make us a better team. I agree that we need more talent (especially on the back end). However, I think it was quite clear that Torts had lost the locker room and the Rangers needed to make a change.

J4KOP99
05-29-2013, 07:09 PM
Lastly, I also agree that "opening it up" does not mean much if the actual players can't capitalize. However, I think that a more "up & down" style would be better for this current roster. Maybe not last years team with Dubi, prust, etc... but now, we have a very different look.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 07:15 PM
Wait a second. I didn't say that guys like Nash and Gaborik should not be held accountable. I said that they can not have the same defensive responsibility that a guy like Callahan has. I believe that is fair. Of course Nash has to play defense, I never said he didn't.

As for your examples of star players that play solid/great defense (Crosby is too on and off imo) I'm sure you could just as easily list off guys that don't play as good of defense but their teams are still very good.

Torts handles guys like Cally, Dubi, and Prust a lot better than he handles Nash and Gaborik because he refuses to switch things around within the offense. The funny thing is that Torts had a ton of offensive fire power in TB and let those guys open things up. "safe is death" if I remember correctly.

As for his "aggressiveness" against Boston. Bringing the extra defender up to forecheck was a terrible idea and he was even too stubborn to stop doing that until midway through game 4. I don't consider that aggressive, I consider that to be stupid. We were playing Boston, a team that over the past 2 season we had good success against, and all of the sudden Torts decides he wants to change our style.

Listen, I have seen your posts in this forum as well as in the NHL forum and I am in complete agreement with the idea that Sather deserves to be canned and the idea that simply firing Torts does not make us a better team. I agree that we need more talent (especially on the back end). However, I think it was quite clear that Torts had lost the locker room and the Rangers needed to make a change.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but I do disagree with a lot of it. Torts wasn't mishandling Gaborik when he was scoring 40+ goals in a season. He certainly didn't mishandle Nash this year and he didn't mishandle Richards when he was in Tampa. However, when any of these guys fall short of their expectations he automatically gets all of the blame. It's crap.

I agree that bringing a defender on the forecheck was stupid but it's still an aggressive coaching tactic.

As far as Crosby goes, he backchecks his *** off and digs on the boards like a fourth liner. Complete two way player and it's part of the reason why they own puck posession. Same with t Red Wings, when Datsyuk and Zetterberg are on the ice they work their tails off to take the puck back from the other team.

Then you look at Richards, his offensive production was well below what was expected from him and he did dick to make up for that in other areas of his game.

Finally, do teams that have quit on their coach come back and win a series the way the Rangers came back against Washington?

metswon69
05-29-2013, 07:17 PM
Giroux is a really good backchecker. At the end of the day they get away with it because they create offense. Well... Richards and Gaborik didn't create much offense this year. Gaborik didn't do any backchecking and Richards did very little. Backchecking doesn't hold you back offensively when you're not doing it.

Stepan played a good two way game this year, did that hold him back at all offensively?

I hear everyone's favorite phrase, "open it up". Sanchez supporters used it for years. Even when he threw 50 passes in the final game of the season against the Giants, Jets fans were still blaming Shotty for not "opening it up".

Nash had the puck on his stick all throughout the playoffs, had plenty of shooting opportunities. But he just didn't score. Torts can't jump on the ice and rip a corner for him. These players failed us offensively, that's why the Rangers didn't score a lot.

I'm tired of hearing how player x can't score in the system when player x has proved that he can score in that system in the past.

Stepan is a good two way player there is a difference. It's like talking about Callahan.

Everytime i watched Giroux this year (my cousin lives in Philly so i go down there and watch the games pretty regularly), he was awful with his assignments. He played uninspired in the beginning of the season similarly to the way it seemed Gabs played.

I mean their PP% dropped every year Torts was here and they took a huge step back offensively this year in general. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that in a different style of hockey this team could be less offensively challenged.

They are solid defensively and at goalie, that's not gonna change even if they don't block as many shots or Henrik puts a .915 save % instead of a .925. I understand there is some sacrifice but like i said protecting the one goal lead really exposed them in the playoffs this year.

We saw it in game 3 versus Boston. That game essentially ended our season.

nyr2002nyr
05-29-2013, 07:29 PM
Giroux is a really good backchecker. At the end of the day they get away with it because they create offense. Well... Richards and Gaborik didn't create much offense this year. Gaborik didn't do any backchecking and Richards did very little. Backchecking doesn't hold you back offensively when you're not doing it.

Stepan played a good two way game this year, did that hold him back at all offensively?

I hear everyone's favorite phrase, "open it up". Sanchez supporters used it for years. Even when he threw 50 passes in the final game of the season against the Giants, Jets fans were still blaming Shotty for not "opening it up".

Nash had the puck on his stick all throughout the playoffs, had plenty of shooting opportunities. But he just didn't score. Torts can't jump on the ice and rip a corner for him. These players failed us offensively, that's why the Rangers didn't score a lot.

I'm tired of hearing how player x can't score in the system when player x has proved that he can score in that system in the past.

Giroux is a one way player nothing more.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 07:34 PM
Stepan is a good two way player there is a difference. It's like talking about Callahan.

Everytime i watched Giroux this year (my cousin lives in Philly so i go down there and watch the games pretty regularly), he was awful with his assignments. He played uninspired in the beginning of the season similarly to the way it seemed Gabs played.

I mean their PP% dropped every year Torts was here and they took a huge step back offensively this year in general. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that in a different style of hockey this team could be less offensively challenged.

They are solid defensively and at goalie, that's not gonna change even if they don't block as many shots or Henrik puts a .915 save % instead of a .925. I understand there is some sacrifice but like i said protecting the one goal lead really exposed them in the playoffs this year.

We saw it in game 3 versus Boston. That game essentially ended our season.

What was he doing specifically that would be deemed "protecting a lead"? Because they Rangers consistently struggled to score regardless of what the score was. The loss in game three also had a lot to do with Lundqvist mishandling the puck three times on a Boston shift that resulted in the goal that evened it up.

The Rangers were on pace to score 222 goals this year. They scored 226 last year. The offense was pretty much the same. The Rangers playoff scoring was insanely low last season, too. IIRC it was something like 2.05 goals per game.

metswon69
05-29-2013, 07:44 PM
What was he doing specifically that would be deemed "protecting a lead"? Because they Rangers consistently struggled to score regardless of what the score was. The loss in game three also had a lot to do with Lundqvist mishandling the puck three times on a Boston shift that resulted in the goal that evened it up.

The Rangers were on pace to score 222 goals this year. They scored 226 last year. The offense was pretty much the same. The Rangers playoff scoring was insanely low last season, too. IIRC it was something like 2.05 goals per game.

It was 2.17 GPG in the playoffs and i never said their offense wasn't better in the second half of the season. Their PP was and so was their offense in general.

They went from 30th in the league at one point of the season in GPG to 16th but a lot of that had to do with the trade. It still doesn't explain why Gaborik and a host of other decent offensive players struggle in Tort's system. Even the tertiary guys mentioned in years prior like Dubi, Prust, Boyle, etc etc have seen their offensive numbers nosedive.

And granted Lundqvist made a costly mistake but again what was the score in that game? 1-0 through almost 2 and a quarter periods. It's always the same **** when watching the Rangers. It's always protected a one goal lead, playing tied through 2 periods, or grinding it out hoping to tie a game usually down by 1.

I know we weren't going to blow out Boston but there was zero chance the Rangers would have had a game like game 2 for the Bruins where they dominated almost every minute after Nash tied it up early in the second.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 07:51 PM
It was 2.17 GPG in the playoffs and i never said their offense wasn't better in the second half of the season. Their PP was and so was their offense in general.

They went from 30th in the league at one point of the season in GPG to 16th but a lot of that had to do with the trade. It still doesn't explain why Gaborik and a host of other decent offensive players struggle in Tort's system. Even the tertiary guys mentioned in years prior like Dubi, Prust, Boyle, etc etc have seen their offensive numbers nosedive.

And granted Lundqvist made a costly mistake but again what was the score in that game? 1-0 through almost 2 and a quarter periods. It's always the same **** when watching the Rangers. It's always protected a one goal lead, playing tied through 2 periods, or grinding it out hoping to tie a game usually down by 1.

I know we weren't going to blow out Boston but there was zero chance the Rangers would have had a game like game 2 for the Bruins where they dominated almost every minute after Nash tied it up early in the second.

Gaborik doesn't struggle in Torts offense. That's a giant myth. He struggles when he's not healthy. Between 2009 and 2012 he was third out of all NHL players in goals scored and that included 2010-11 where he struggled with injuries. He has 3 40+ goal seasons in his career and two of them were under Torts. What do you guys base this stuff off of?

MJL80
05-29-2013, 08:22 PM
Messier!!!!!!!!!! LOL

IAmARanger18
05-29-2013, 08:36 PM
Late to the thread but here are my thoughts.

Hank has been upset with Tortorella, so bash Sather all you want, but the man is smart, does he want the best goalie in the world to leave his team to keep a decent coach? No, This pretty much locks up the fact that Hank will sign an extension, and do you blame him? No, he was tired of the team giving him 1 goal a game to lose a game 2-1 or have to shutout a team 1-0 because Torts wants all his forwards playing defense. This was a smart move and the furthest thing from a mistake.

The offense will open up now as it should, time for guys like Kreider and Nash to be let loose like they need to be, no more crying or benching players if they miss a back check in the zone. Whoever comes in and I personally hope it's Vignault or whatever his name is from Vancouver, this team will be much better. To much talent on this team to struggle like we did. now just let Sullivan go also.

metswon69
05-29-2013, 08:46 PM
Gaborik doesn't struggle in Torts offense. That's a giant myth. He struggles when he's not healthy. Between 2009 and 2012 he was third out of all NHL players in goals scored and that included 2010-11 where he struggled with injuries. He has 3 40+ goal seasons in his career and two of them were under Torts. What do you guys base this stuff off of?

He did this year. I don't think that's all on health. I think that's partially to do with Tort's system and how he rubs a lot of players the wrong way.

I am not suggesting they are going to be some kind of prolific offense with a new coach but there has to be greener pastures offensively with a different style of hockey.

Mr.Wiskers
05-29-2013, 08:51 PM
Here’s an (updated) list of available NHL coaching*candidates
Mike Halford May 22, 2013, 5:53 PM EDT
11 Comments

AP
With the Canucks having severed ties with Alain Vigneault, there are now three NHL head-coaching opportunities available: Vancouver, Dallas and Colorado.

And there are about five times the number of potential applicants.

Without further ado, let’s take a look at the coaching candidate landscape.

Lindy Ruff: Has been mentioned for pretty much every job that’s come available. The most experienced candidate in the field — at the time of his dismissal in Buffalo, he sat 12th on the all-time wins list (571). But for all that experience, no Stanley Cup.

Alain Vigneault: He and Ruff are the only two Jack Adams winners since 2004 that are currently unemployed. List of accolades for Vigneault is long, and he’s posted at least a .610 winning percentage in each of the last five years. But for all that winning, no Stanley Cup.

Willie Desjardins: The head coach of Dallas’ AHL affiliate in Texas, Desjardins is well-regarded and won the American League’s coach of the year award in 2013.

Mark Reeds: A bit of a darkhorse candidate (first mentioned as a possibility for the Vancouver job by Sportsnet’s Nick Kypreos), Reeds is currently serving as one of Paul MacLean’s assistants in Ottawa. A former NHLer, Reeds joined the Sens after a successful career coaching OHL Owen Sound.

Paul Maurice: The former Carolina and Toronto bench boss recently left his post with KHL Metallurg, and could be eying a return to the NHL.

Patrick Roy: As you may have read on this very site, Roy is reportedly close to signing on to coach his former club, the Colorado Avalanche. The knock against Roy is that he’s temperamental — but he has done a solid job coaching QMJHL Quebec, never finishing with less than a .564 winning percentage.

Dave Tippett: One of the most successful NHL coaches over the last 10 years, Tippett currently finds himself in limbo with the Coyotes. He’s reportedly in meetings with GM Don Maloney about his future with the club — his contract expires in June — and, earlier this week, told Fox Sports Arizona that the plan is to “just stay in a holding pattern until the end of June and see how things work out.”

Dallas Eakins: With his Toronto Marlies now eliminated from Calder Cup contention, Eakins — one of the American League’s best coaches over the last few years — looks like a guy ready to make the jump to the NHL. “I’m fully aware there’s been some coaching changes and there’s opportunities out there,” Eakins said, per the Globe and Mail’s James Mirtle. “Will we look at them? Absolutely.”

Others: Scott Arniel (former Columbus coach, currently with AHL Chicago), John Hynes (head coach AHL Wilkes-Barre/Scranton), Mark French (head coach AHL Hershey), Mike Kitchen (former St. Louis coach, currently a Blackhawks assistant), Guy Boucher (former Tampa Bay head coach).

MJL80
05-29-2013, 08:51 PM
seriously.... Alain Vigneault PLEASE!!!

Mr.Wiskers
05-29-2013, 09:00 PM
By Anthony Riccobono | May 29 2013 3:32 PM
One of the most controversial head coaches in sports is without a job, as the New York Rangers have fired John Tortorella. He led the team to four playoff appearances in five seasons, but the Rangers second-round loss to the Boston Bruins this year wasn’t enough to save his job.

Reuters
John Tortorella led the Rangers to the playoffs in three straight seasons.

Sponsored Link
Pre-Owned Volkswagen Cars For Sale
With Tortorella gone, one of the most coveted head coaching positions is now open. Who are the top candidates to lead New York next season?

Lindy Ruff



With over 15 years of experience as an NHL head coach, Ruff will be one of the leading candidates to replace Tortorella. Before being fired by the Buffalo Sabres this past season, Ruff had taken the club to three Conference Finals and one Stanley Cup in his long tenure. Ruff spent parts of three seasons as a player with the Rangers in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. According to John Vogl of The Buffalo News, Ruff wants to coach in the Big Apple.

Alain Vigneault

In Vigneault, the Rangers have a chance to hire a coach that has had an incredible amount of regular season success, of late. The head coach led the Vancouver Canucks to five straight first-place finishes in the Northwest Division, before being fired a week ago. Vigneault’s teams underachieved in the last two playoffs, though, losing in the first round both times and being swept in 2013.


Dave Tippett

His current team isn’t looking to get rid of him, but Tippett could end up atop the Rangers’ wish list. The contract of the Phoenix Coyotes head coach expires at the end of June, and he could be looking to go elsewhere. Coyotes general manager Don Maloney has stated that he wants Tippett back, but the coach could look to find success on a bigger stage. He led Phoenix to the Stanley Cup Playoffs in three of his four seasons with the club, before missing the postseason this year.

Mark Messier

Messier may be a longshot candidate, considering he has never coached a game in the NHL, but he might have an outside chance of landing the gig. He knows the team as well as any candidate after becoming New York’s special assistant to president and general manager Glen Sather in 2009. The Hall of Famer was, however, the head coach for Team Canada at the 2010 Deutschland Cup and 2010 Spengler Cup.

Mr.Wiskers
05-29-2013, 09:14 PM
I just read an article on Alain Vigneault on CanucksArmy.com by Thomas Dance dated 03/11/13 titled The Pros and Cons of Alain Vigneault. Found it interesting but it was about 3 pages long. Take a look!

NYSPORTS98
05-29-2013, 09:31 PM
Rangers make it to the conference finals for the first time in two decades and the coach who brought them there is gone during a strike shortened season. What bs

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 09:34 PM
He did this year. I don't think that's all on health. I think that's partially to do with Tort's system and how he rubs a lot of players the wrong way.

I am not suggesting they are going to be some kind of prolific offense with a new coach but there has to be greener pastures offensively with a different style of hockey.

Oh come on. He's fine here for several seasons and all of a sudden its Torts fault? This is delusional. You mentioned our tertiary scorers, Boyle was one of them. Go check out Boyle's career, Torts is the only coach that he's played a full season under and you're actually blaming his system for a drop in production. How the hell can Torts be responsible for a drop in his production when it's the only system he's ever produced in. Go check out the careers of the other players you listed. Stop playing the blame game.

metswon69
05-29-2013, 10:35 PM
Oh come on. He's fine here for several seasons and all of a sudden its Torts fault? This is delusional. You mentioned our tertiary scorers, Boyle was one of them. Go check out Boyle's career, Torts is the only coach that he's played a full season under and you're actually blaming his system for a drop in production. How the hell can Torts be responsible for a drop in his production when it's the only system he's ever produced in. Go check out the careers of the other players you listed. Stop playing the blame game.

I don't think the team responded to Torts as well this year. At least certainly the first incarnation didn't before the trade. Gabs wasn't very good 2 years ago either, injuries aside. He had two amazing seasons and 2 so so ones.

And i don't see why Boyle under a new offensive system couldn't score more. Not to say he's a perennially 20-25 goal scorer but he should be able to have more than 13 over his last 130 regular season games.

Prust was better offensively this year in Montreal and Dubinsky has 20 points in 29 games this year.

Anisimov also had his highest goals per shot percentage this year and by quite a bit.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 11:03 PM
Prust, Dubi, and Anisimov all got bigger offensive roles...

Prust and Dubi's best years are still under this coach. Dubi had 2 goals, two!!!!

The point stands, Gaborik has has had 3 40+ goal seasons and two of them came under this suposed offensively incompetent coach. You wanna talk about that some more?

LA wouldn't even give Boyle starts before he got here.

If you think a team that has Nash, Stepan, and callahan is going to be a good offensive team you're in for a rude awakening. This is a league average scoring team on paper and that's exactly how they performed this year.

Mr.Wiskers
05-29-2013, 11:21 PM
Reality is we let go 2 key gritty role players in Prust and Mitchell( also a good face-off) to replace them with Halpern and Pyatt. And when we didn't have a good PK early in the season we had to trade for Powe and at the end of the season we desperately tried to add grit and we traded for Dorsett. Yes Halpern has good speed but guys like Pyatt and Dorsett don't have the speed of Prust and Mitchell, and Asham doesn't have the versatility that Scott brought( RW/D). His style of play calls for using all 4 lines and we didn't have a consistent 4 lines to march out there. Not to mention that our greatest need was another d-man which we never got.

But beyond going into the numbers, the team just got tired of Torts bull**it---a guy like that doesn't last--he wears on people and when you're winning you tolerate it cause you're winning but when you're losing people just say ***** off.

metswon69
05-29-2013, 11:22 PM
Prust, Dubi, and Anisimov all got bigger offensive roles...

Prust and Dubi's best years are still under this coach. Dubi had 2 goals, two!!!!

The point stands, Gaborik has has had 3 40+ goal seasons and two of them came under this suposed offensively incompetent coach. You wanna talk about that some more?

LA wouldn't even give Boyle starts before he got here.

If you think a team that has Nash, Stepan, and callahan is going to be a good offensive team you're in for a rude awakening. This is a league average scoring team on paper and that's exactly how they performed this year.

That's my point though. Bigger offensive roles in a better offensive system.

Dubi still had 20 points in 29 games. What did he have the year before 34 points in 77 games? The point remains a lot of these guys regressed offensively.

That's fine but let's not forget that Gaborik had 2 of his 3 worst offensive seasons with the Rangers as well. I never insinuated he was incompetent. He's a good coach who has a Stanley Cup on his resume but i still think his antics/rants/etcs all began to fall on deaf ears towards the end. Not until they shook this team up midseason did they start playing better.

Again i am not expecting this team to become the Pittsburgh Penguins offensively all of a sudden but i still they can be better than a below to league average offense. And i certainly think someone can come in here and help this putrid PP.

NYR_NYJ
05-29-2013, 11:31 PM
I think it just came down to the players not responding to the coach. That's why they were so inconsistent all year.

Let all hope they only get better.

Mr.Wiskers
05-29-2013, 11:33 PM
Wait, wait, wait---Dubi had 20pts in 29 gms and his supposite replacement Pyatt had 11pts in 48 gms.
Prust replacement Halpern only had 1pt. In 30 gms. And Mitchell who had 20pts in 47 gms was replaced by Powe who had what 1-2 pts for us.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 11:33 PM
That's my point though. Bigger offensive roles in a better offensive system.

Dubi still had 20 points in 29 games. What did he have the year before 34 points in 77 games? The point remains a lot of these guys regressed offensively.

That's fine but let's not forget that Gaborik had 2 of his 3 worst offensive seasons with the Rangers as well. I never insinuated he was incompetent. He's a good coach who has a Stanley Cup on his resume but i still think his antics/rants/etcs all began to fall on deaf ears towards the end. Not until they shook this team up midseason did they start playing better.

Again i am not expecting this team to become the Pittsburgh Penguins offensively all of a sudden but i still they can be better than a below to league average offense. And i certainly think someone can come in here and help this putrid PP.

Gaborik has had much worse seasons where instead of playing though injuries, he didn't play at all. You don't have careers years in a system that prevents scoring.

fingerbang
05-29-2013, 11:37 PM
People act like Torts tells his players not to score. Its a bunch of bs. We were league average this year, not dead last like some would make it out to be.

Mr.Wiskers
05-29-2013, 11:42 PM
NYR_NYJ, you are exactly right, its what most of us are saying his act has grown on people especially his own players. No one wanted to play for him. The funny thing was I think Avery was the 1st to say it on Twitter about 2 months ago. And you know he got the info from somebody on the team.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 11:59 PM
The team could ignore Torts poor record in the playoffs. They could ignore how he disrespected some Rangers players in the media. They could ignore that he was disrespectful to Sam Rosen (one of the nicest guys around) and other media members. They could ignore the stone age breakout system. They could ignore that the PP scheme has been horrible. They could ignore a team that has above average talent playing at a mediocre level. They could ignore the 2-3 NHL players who were not ever Rangers publicly saying Torts was a horrible coach in the last 3 weeks.

What they could not ignore is that the players on the team who say all the right things in the media but behind closed doors said they had enough of Torts. Many of us saw that in their play and on their faces all season.

nyr1980
05-30-2013, 12:18 AM
Very good coach, just lost the room.

metswon69
05-30-2013, 01:04 AM
^^^ That's another big part of it too.

If they hadn't made that trade, this team presumably wouldn't have made the playoffs. I mean what do you do have a revolving door of personnel because players have a short leash with Torts and vice versa?

NYSPORTS98
05-30-2013, 07:09 AM
I think it just came down to the players not responding to the coach. That's why they were so inconsistent all year.

Let all hope they only get better.

Respectfully, what team is consistent with this much change? Several free agents were lost during the offseason, several more roster positions changed with the Nash trade, no training camp, a short season and then 5 new guys are added and subtracted at the trade deadline. Not to mention, Staal went out. With so much change, how could they be anything but inconsistent?

If the Richards signing was fully endorsed by Torts and he benched all that cash, I believe that may have been his downfall. Otherwise, the guy had a massive roster overhaul a year removed from competing for the President's trophy. He deserved at least another year as this organization has seen its best hockey since 1994 under Torts. Besides Torts, it's been pretty miserable as a Rangers fan for almost two decades.

nyr2002nyr
05-30-2013, 08:18 AM
Rangers make it to the conference finals for the first time in two decades and the coach who brought them there is gone during a strike shortened season. What bs

he lost that locker room buddy

oak2455
05-30-2013, 08:37 AM
I kinda agree with 98 but the other side was his reign was running thin.... I just think Torts was killing some of the offensive players on this team .... Go get Scotty "100 yr old" Bowman lol.... Seriously get a good two way coach with more assistants than one

puckhead54
05-30-2013, 10:13 AM
The team could ignore Torts poor record in the playoffs. They could ignore how he disrespected some Rangers players in the media. They could ignore that he was disrespectful to Sam Rosen (one of the nicest guys around) and other media members. They could ignore the stone age breakout system. They could ignore that the PP scheme has been horrible. They could ignore a team that has above average talent playing at a mediocre level. They could ignore the 2-3 NHL players who were not ever Rangers publicly saying Torts was a horrible coach in the last 3 weeks.

What they could not ignore is that the players on the team who say all the right things in the media but behind closed doors said they had enough of Torts. Many of us saw that in their play and on their faces all season.

Sly you hit on it the real reason is disrespect of Sam Rosen no one should stand for that.:D

aanddann
05-30-2013, 10:24 AM
i think im over the torts bashing/defending at this point. its over and done, why bother. as nervous as i am for what the future holds, i actually feel the most optimistic about the team as i have in a few years. this year with Nash made my expectations rise, but i kind of saw the issues with the lack of mid-lineup depth coming.

as far as future coaches go, i think its hard to just flat out say, 'vigneault', or 'tippett' or whoever. it's so much more complicated than that. if a new coach comes in and sets up a totally new system, it'd be tough to expect a meteoric rise in year one. players would have to totally buy in and grasp everything pretty quickly. you see it in football all the time, new defensive/offensive coordinator comes in, that facet of the football team generally struggles a bit for a year or so.

if the rangers want to maintain what they have while adding a little more leniency and offensive creativity, then Ruff is probably your guy. hes a less stubborn, fiery tortorella. hes stern, but not at the expense of his team.

if you want to really amp up the offensive side of the game, Vigneault is probably your guy. given what he did in Vancouver, i think he could win it all with us. he had massive injury issues and a goalie controversy with the Nucks. we have a superior goalie, a very solid defense, and honestly, plenty of offensive talent. we add one or two guys and hopefully let some of the kids play, he could pull it off.

Tippett is absurdly talented as a coach too. and considering what hes done in Phx riding really only Doan and Mike Smith makes you wonder what he could do with our talent. that said, he runs a team based off of mid-range talent and you'd have to question his adaptability. can he do what Torts couldnt and change his style to reflect his personnel? Not sure.

I think given our team you've gotta figure Vigneault is the best suited for the job, but watch, Sather will just let Jim Schoenfeld take over or something ridiculous.

Toon88
05-30-2013, 12:05 PM
i think im over the torts bashing/defending at this point. its over and done, why bother. as nervous as i am for what the future holds, i actually feel the most optimistic about the team as i have in a few years. this year with Nash made my expectations rise, but i kind of saw the issues with the lack of mid-lineup depth coming.

as far as future coaches go, i think its hard to just flat out say, 'vigneault', or 'tippett' or whoever. it's so much more complicated than that. if a new coach comes in and sets up a totally new system, it'd be tough to expect a meteoric rise in year one. players would have to totally buy in and grasp everything pretty quickly. you see it in football all the time, new defensive/offensive coordinator comes in, that facet of the football team generally struggles a bit for a year or so.

if the rangers want to maintain what they have while adding a little more leniency and offensive creativity, then Ruff is probably your guy. hes a less stubborn, fiery tortorella. hes stern, but not at the expense of his team.

if you want to really amp up the offensive side of the game, Vigneault is probably your guy. given what he did in Vancouver, i think he could win it all with us. he had massive injury issues and a goalie controversy with the Nucks. we have a superior goalie, a very solid defense, and honestly, plenty of offensive talent. we add one or two guys and hopefully let some of the kids play, he could pull it off.

Tippett is absurdly talented as a coach too. and considering what hes done in Phx riding really only Doan and Mike Smith makes you wonder what he could do with our talent. that said, he runs a team based off of mid-range talent and you'd have to question his adaptability. can he do what Torts couldnt and change his style to reflect his personnel? Not sure.

I think given our team you've gotta figure Vigneault is the best suited for the job, but watch, Sather will just let Jim Schoenfeld take over or something ridiculous.

I vote for Vigneault. If he has any offensive philosophy then that is the direction we have to go. I got so tired of watching dump the puck hockey. Any kind of offense will open up Stepan, Krieder, Nash, J.T Miller. The Rangers power play was horrible it was tough to even watch it.

bsi
05-30-2013, 12:08 PM
Respectfully, what team is consistent with this much change? Several free agents were lost during the offseason, several more roster positions changed with the Nash trade, no training camp, a short season and then 5 new guys are added and subtracted at the trade deadline. Not to mention, Staal went out. With so much change, how could they be anything but inconsistent?

If the Richards signing was fully endorsed by Torts and he benched all that cash, I believe that may have been his downfall. Otherwise, the guy had a massive roster overhaul a year removed from competing for the President's trophy. He deserved at least another year as this organization has seen its best hockey since 1994 under Torts. Besides Torts, it's been pretty miserable as a Rangers fan for almost two decades.

Torts was a part of those changes, he was being consulted as to what he wanted in a roster from the GM. There's no way Sather trades Gaborik on his own this year, that came from Torts. While the trade seems to have worked in our favour, there's not too many teams parting with players who are capable of scoring 40+ goals, it's part of the reason we have a revolving door when it comes to players, we have players who want to play and then the coach barks at them all the time until they are mentally beaten and their progress regresses. I'm happy the coaching change was made because both Nash and Kreider were about to travel down the same road as Gaborik did, the same road that Richards, Dubinsky and DelZotto all did before him. We have a good team, a good young team and we just need someone to show support to the young players and mould them into a team. I think the change had to be made for the good of the young players on this team.

J4KOP99
05-30-2013, 12:46 PM
Do we all agree that no matter who the new coach is, we still need some additions to this roster? Depth was an issue this year and with Staal admitting that his eyesight may never be the same, we MUST add a top 4 defender. Hell, we should have added a top4 D-man last year but it never happened.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-30-2013, 12:56 PM
Do we all agree that no matter who the new coach is, we still need some additions to this roster? Depth was an issue this year and with Staal admitting that his eyesight may never be the same, we MUST add a top 4 defender. Hell, we should have added a top4 D-man last year but it never happened.

Every season we want to improve the roster but almost all teams have some flaws. Boston beat us with 3 rookie defensemen that never played in the playoffs before. Before those players the Bruins were playing Wade Redden who Rangers fans had major issues with. We did not lose based on lack of depth in my opinion. We lost because their hearts were just not in it. Even in elimination games I did not see the hunger or fire in them.

rhymeratic
05-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Give the job to Messier. It is time.

fingerbang
05-30-2013, 01:33 PM
Every season we want to improve the roster but almost all teams have some flaws. Boston beat us with 3 rookie defensemen that never played in the playoffs before. Before those players the Bruins were playing Wade Redden who Rangers fans had major issues with. We did not lose based on lack of depth in my opinion. We lost because their hearts were just not in it. Even in elimination games I did not see the hunger or fire in them.

One of those rookies has a shot that's twice as good as any Ranger player.

Do you really think this roster competes with the four teams that are still in the playoffs? The Pens have two Hart winners, a Norris candidate, and a handful of guys that can score 30 goals in a season. Realistically Nash might be the only Ranger that scores 30+ next year.

NYSPORTS98
05-30-2013, 09:39 PM
he lost that locker room buddy

Like the early 90's teams, the talent in the locker room wouldn't have faired better with anybody at the helm.

nyr2002nyr
05-30-2013, 09:50 PM
Like the early 90's teams, the talent in the locker room wouldn't have faired better with anybody at the helm.

I totally disagree. Nor did mike Keenan as nutty as he was try to make messier a 3rd line grinder and Kovalev a back checking Mucker. You have to as put a system in place to who you have not force players to play a style they cannot. Maybe he would have made 99 play on the checking line

NYSPORTS98
05-30-2013, 10:09 PM
I totally disagree. Nor did mike Keenan as nutty as he was try to make messier a 3rd line grinder and Kovalev a back checking Mucker. You have to as put a system in place to who you have not force players to play a style they cannot. Maybe he would have made 99 play on the checking line

Might want to do a history check. The early 90's team (91) ended up in first place and lost the Penguins. Like that team, we recognize this team isn't that talented. In 1991, the Rangers finished in last place yet the coach still kept his job. Did Keenan lose the locker room? Like Torts, the Keenan team wasn't that good until changes occurred.

IAmARanger18
05-30-2013, 11:01 PM
I vote for Vigneault. If he has any offensive philosophy then that is the direction we have to go. I got so tired of watching dump the puck hockey. Any kind of offense will open up Stepan, Krieder, Nash, J.T Miller. The Rangers power play was horrible it was tough to even watch it.

This! Stay away from Ruff please.

nyr1980
05-30-2013, 11:55 PM
Every season we want to improve the roster but almost all teams have some flaws. Boston beat us with 3 rookie defensemen that never played in the playoffs before. Before those players the Bruins were playing Wade Redden who Rangers fans had major issues with. We did not lose based on lack of depth in my opinion. We lost because their hearts were just not in it. Even in elimination games I did not see the hunger or fire in them.

Their lack of depth is in one place and in one way- forwards and scoring. Bottom line is there has not been enough scoring, be it primary, secondary, or chip-in from the guys up front. However, finding another secondary guy and opening it up could solve a good deal of that. They still need more from the bottom six. More goals from 3rd line and some more quality minutes from the 4th. Need to add to that group.

But you have to like their D. Hopefully Staal comes back well enough, develop Moore and McIlrath, let Del Zotto and McDonagh skate, and if you get Sauer back it's gravy.

nyr2002nyr
05-30-2013, 11:57 PM
Might want to do a history check. The early 90's team (91) ended up in first place and lost the Penguins. Like that team, we recognize this team isn't that talented. In 1991, the Rangers finished in last place yet the coach still kept his job. Did Keenan lose the locker room? Like Torts, the Keenan team wasn't that good until changes occurred.

I don't need a history check. What I said was accurate. He coached his players to what they did best. He didn't try and make all 4 lines the same. He didn't want people dong things they werent comfortable doing. He didn't put Beuk on the pp nor did he ask Zubov To try be a stay at home d man. He put them into positions where they could be successful for the skill set they have. Could Torts do that? Maybe but he never made the adjustment. And along the way he pissed people off with his @hole dramatics,publicly embarrassed players and lost the locker room.

NYSPORTS98
05-31-2013, 08:52 AM
I don't need a history check. What I said was accurate. He coached his players to what they did best. He didn't try and make all 4 lines the same. .

The Devils have done that for years and the Bruins do the same. The only difference is the Bruins had better players. As far as a history lesson, Keenan burns bridges everywhere and embarrassed players often with non-stop benchings and ridicule of his players. The team fell apart in '93 unlike the team this year. Keenan kept his job.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 09:04 AM
The Devils have done that for years and the Bruins do the same. The only difference is the Bruins had better players. As far as a history lesson, Keenan burns bridges everywhere and embarrassed players often with non-stop benchings and ridicule of his players. The team fell apart in '93 unlike the team this year. Keenan kept his job.

The reason they are both short term coaches.......That being said it was never my point. My point was he didnt ask players to play out of the style of game they play. He didnt try to make all 4 lines the same style

nyr1980
05-31-2013, 11:52 AM
I think both of you guys are in need of a history lesson.

Roger Nielson coached the 91-92 team, got fired mid-season in 92-93. He was replaced by Ron Smith, who was replaced by Keenan for 93-94. Keenan then left for the Blues that summer.

Keenan only coached them for 1 season.

nyr2002nyr
05-31-2013, 12:56 PM
I think both of you guys are in need of a history lesson.

Roger Nielson coached the 91-92 team, got fired mid-season in 92-93. He was replaced by Ron Smith, who was replaced by Keenan for 93-94. Keenan then left for the Blues that summer.

Keenan only coached them for 1 season.


I knew Keenan only coached 1 year it was never my point. He is missing what i am saying about make them play a style they are not suited to as players

IAmARanger18
06-01-2013, 12:03 AM
I don't get why some fans want Gretzky, do they forget how bad of a coach he was for the Coyotes years ago?

nyr2002nyr
06-01-2013, 11:36 PM
I don't get why some fans want Gretzky, do they forget how bad of a coach he was for the Coyotes years ago?

Amen!

NYSPORTS98
06-01-2013, 11:40 PM
Bruins maul Penguins in game 1. Wonder if the Pens will be looking for a new coach soon.

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 12:06 AM
Bruins maul Penguins in game 1. Wonder if the Pens will be looking for a new coach soon.

If they lose that series, it's not out of the question. If you think about it, since they won their cup in '09, they have really underachieved- they've had the 2 best players in the world and won 3 playoff series, to this point, in the last 3 seasons- exactly the same as the Rangers. Their window is closing too, and they know it, which is why they made all those moves at the deadline. Crosby will get another concussion eventually, and Malkin may leave next summer. They should've won another by now.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 11:01 AM
If they lose that series, it's not out of the question. If you think about it, since they won their cup in '09, they have really underachieved- they've had the 2 best players in the world and won 3 playoff series, to this point, in the last 3 seasons- exactly the same as the Rangers. Their window is closing too, and they know it, which is why they made all those moves at the deadline. Crosby will get another concussion eventually, and Malkin may leave next summer. They should've won another by now.

Maybe the team which returned 11 of 12 forwards from their Stanley Cup team is really good and it's not the coach?

nyr1980
06-02-2013, 11:13 AM
Maybe the team which returned 11 of 12 forwards from their Stanley Cup team is really good and it's not the coach?

Oh, I can agree with that. Boston is the leagues best team on defense, very good in goal, well coached, and while not quite as talented as Pitt up front, they are just as deep if not deeper, and certainly bigger than Pitt is. An excellent team that is among the elite in the league.

But Pittsburgh has underachieved, and I do believe their window is shrinking as their cap considerations increase, and Crosby's injury concerns persist.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 12:38 PM
If a bunch of Pitt players including stars like Crosby, Malkin and Letang told their GM that their coach had gone too far disrespecting them as people and players their coach would be gone as well. I have not seen the Pitt coach be disrespectful to many people.

Besides having a disappointing season Torts wore out his welcome. It is that simple. He was disrespectful to too many people including players and media. It is very hard to get people to respect you if you are often disrespectful to other people.

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 04:28 PM
If a bunch of Pitt players including stars like Crosby, Malkin and Letang told their GM that their coach had gone too far disrespecting them as people and players their coach would be gone as well. I have not seen the Pitt coach be disrespectful to many people.

Besides having a disappointing season Torts wore out his welcome. It is that simple. He was disrespectful to too many people including players and media. It is very hard to get people to respect you if you are often disrespectful to other people.

Belicheck, Parcells, Coughlin etc do the same thing. This Rangers team isn't as talented as last seasons team b/c of the roster and not the coach. Not to mention, the Bruins just toyed with the Penguins physically.

metswon69
06-02-2013, 04:37 PM
Belicheck, Parcells, Coughlin etc do the same thing. This Rangers team isn't as talented as last seasons team b/c of the roster and not the coach. Not to mention, the Bruins just toyed with the Penguins physically.

Parcells and Coughlin deal with the media and the players much better than Torts ever did and although they had their adversaries in the locker room, they also had a ton of guys who would jump through hoops for them as coaches.

When do you hear Belichick call out his own players in the media btw? Everytime i hear him after a loss he always puts the blame on himself first.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-02-2013, 04:42 PM
Belicheck, Parcells, Coughlin etc do the same thing. This Rangers team isn't as talented as last seasons team b/c of the roster and not the coach. Not to mention, the Bruins just toyed with the Penguins physically.

The coaches you named are not nearly as disrespectful of people in my opinion but my opinion and your opinion does not matter. What matters is the NY Rangers players opinions. The Players spoke up and a change was made.

IAmARanger18
06-02-2013, 05:16 PM
As bad as this will be I think Ruff becomes the next coach, but I hope not

NYSPORTS98
06-02-2013, 05:46 PM
The coaches you named are not nearly as disrespectful of people in my opinion but my opinion and your opinion does not matter. What matters is the NY Rangers players opinions. The Players spoke up and a change was made.

Bill Parcells told L.T. to fly down to New Orleans and send back the real #56. What player was that?

Parcells & Belicheck used to have live hitting on Friday's before the game.

Parcells dumped trash on his player at halftime, etc, etc, etc.

If in fact the Rangers players did speak up, this team has more problems than I realized. That indicates a very soft bunch and like the late 80's and early '90's, massive changes are needed.

NYR_NYJ
06-02-2013, 09:11 PM
Respectfully, what team is consistent with this much change? Several free agents were lost during the offseason, several more roster positions changed with the Nash trade, no training camp, a short season and then 5 new guys are added and subtracted at the trade deadline. Not to mention, Staal went out. With so much change, how could they be anything but inconsistent?

If the Richards signing was fully endorsed by Torts and he benched all that cash, I believe that may have been his downfall. Otherwise, the guy @"had a massive roster overhaul a year removed from competing for the President's trophy. He deserved at least another year as this organization has seen its best hockey since 1994 under Torts. Besides Torts, it's been pretty miserable as a Rangers fan for almost two decades.

nI agree it was miserable for a long time but His record was not any better then Renney. We barley made the playoffs every year except last year. He was a good coach but this team was done listening to him and that was clear by their effort. Being inconsistent because of changes is one thing but they didn't show at times and that's not because of new players.

nyr2002nyr
06-02-2013, 09:23 PM
Bill Parcells told L.T. to fly down to New Orleans and send back the real #56. What player was that?

Parcells & Belicheck used to have live hitting on Friday's before the game.

Parcells dumped trash on his player at halftime, etc, etc, etc.

If in fact the Rangers players did speak up, this team has more problems than I realized. That indicates a very soft bunch and like the late 80's and early '90's, massive changes are needed.

You need to get the "torts did no wrong" "everyone else is to blame" "he got a raw deal" blinders off man.

NYSPORTS98
06-03-2013, 05:19 AM
nI . We barley made the playoffs every year except last year. He was a good coach but this team was done listening to him and that was clear by their effort. Being inconsistent because of changes is one thing but they didn't show at times and that's not because of new players.

How can a team with so many new faces during a strike shortened season stop listening? When did any of them have time to listen let alone not listen? When the team battles back from 0-2 against Washington I'm not sure how anybody can claim the coach lost the locker room. When the shots are practically even in the Boston series and the team wins in overtime, I'm not sure how the coach lost the locker room.

Want to blame the coach for the lack of talent? Com'on people, the roster isn't that good. Besides MDZ and Nash, does this team have a legit first line of offense and defense? Everybody is a 2nd or 3rd liner with many lacking in the both the physical and offensive department.

Ironically, Boston radio had a fan chime in prior to the series claiming the Rangers aren't that good. The fan said they, to paraphrase, they have a goalie who stands on his head just enough for them to get a worse draft pick and add another mediocre talent. The caller nailed.

They need a #1 center, #1 offensive defenseman, more speed, some better shooters, etc. When it's primarily a roster of mediocre, nice players, I'm not sure how any coach is supposed to win or take the blame when it loses.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-03-2013, 11:44 AM
You do not think the players themselves telling management they need a new coach is a coach that has lost his team? I can see a debate on many issues be it talent or system but I think the players made their view clear in this case.

We have to remember that the players are a team and they are friends. The players will talk when the coach leaves the locker room and away from the ice if they feel something is not right.