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majmarcus
05-29-2013, 08:48 AM
My question is simple. Is it possible that if this Heat team win they could be atleast one of if not the most hated champions in league history? Sure they have supporters(Lebron followers mostly). But they also have a lot of detractors as well.

What successful team has been more disliked than the Heat???

I Rock Shaqs
05-29-2013, 09:05 AM
Gosh people make some stupid threads, go get some friends then talk about it with them.

BklynKnicks3
05-29-2013, 09:07 AM
a bunch of front runners who joined up and form a pre determined all star team to try and form a monopoly rather then EARN there accomplishments by going at each other like the other greats.

MonroeFAN
05-29-2013, 09:09 AM
what are you even trying to say here?

Edit : ah nevermind, I understand now. I'm not the biggest heat fan. I love Lebron, but Wade is easily the most hated player in the league at this point I would think.

Iron24th
05-29-2013, 09:12 AM
I don't hate the Heat, but I would prefer SA to win it all, because I have a ton of respect for Timmy, TP, Pop and their humble fanbase.

sixers247
05-29-2013, 09:12 AM
I'm with MonroeFan. I really, really like Lebron. But my dislike for Wade is starting to outway it lol

The Flash
05-29-2013, 09:12 AM
a bunch of front runners who joined up and form a pre determined all star team to try and form a monopoly rather then EARN there accomplishments by going at each other like the other greats.
May I ask your opinion on the Knicks?

ATX
05-29-2013, 09:16 AM
a bunch of front runners who joined up and form a pre determined all star team to try and form a monopoly rather then EARN there accomplishments by going at each other like the other greats.

Nothing is predetermined. They still had to come together as a team, and fight for Championships just like the stacked teams of the Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, and Celtics. Just too bad it didn't work out for the Knicks and the Lakers this year...So Miami must have ruined the league! Lmao, such a played out cop out to excuse "Your" team from failing again this year. Miami won the 2010 FA...It's 2013, get over it already. So if NY acuires another superstar this offseason to help Melo finaly win a ship, does that mean he wouldn't have earned it?

nycericanguy
05-29-2013, 09:17 AM
May I ask your opinion on the Knicks?

Your sig is hilarious!

Knicks just need better players around Melo, as much as I want to believe in them, I'm just not sure you can win with JR & FElton as your 2nd and 3rd options shooting 41% compared to Wade & Bosh, and heck even Ray Allen.

Maybe Shump takes a big step next year though.

ATX
05-29-2013, 09:25 AM
Your sig is hilarious!

Knicks just need better players around Melo, as much as I want to believe in them, I'm just not sure you can win with JR & FElton as your 2nd and 3rd options shooting 41% compared to Wade & Bosh, and heck even Ray Allen.

Maybe Shump takes a big step next year though.


I agree with you here. The Knicks are very close to being a championship team, and I don't know the Knicks cap situation, but I think Amnestying Amare and getting more talent around Melo is needed. If this worked and they won a Championship, I wouldn't go around crying about how the Knicks are a stacked team and the title shouldn't count, and that NY ruined the league. I'd think they earned it, and of course Melo needed more help, because TEAMS win ships, not an individual player.

xRipCity
05-29-2013, 09:26 AM
Knicks situation next year is dreadful, just ask Stephen A (lol).

Theyre in a bad situation financially and health wise and other east teams are on the up and up.

BklynKnicks3
05-29-2013, 09:28 AM
The Knicks are 1 one man team, who where supposed to be a 2 star team. They are a 2nd scorer a way and even if they ad that I cant honestly say that they are better then the miami heat all stars.
May I ask your opinion on the Knicks?

nycericanguy
05-29-2013, 09:31 AM
The Knicks are 1 one man team, who where supposed to be a 2 star team. They are a 2nd scorer a way and even if they ad that I cant honestly say that they are better then the miami heat all stars.

MIA will always have more talent than anyone else

But they are beatable, IND is just a solid all around team, and while I don't think they have enough talent to win, they are showing its possible.

BklynKnicks3
05-29-2013, 09:31 AM
the heat have 3 franchise players if melo can get passed them with 1 Legit all star Thats amazing to me since Durant westbrook and harden couldnt even do it. Everyone needs help to win but 3 guys who where franchise players all on the same team in their prime and to say thats earned smh
Nothing is predetermined. They still had to come together as a team, and fight for Championships just like the stacked teams of the Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, and Celtics. Just too bad it didn't work out for the Knicks and the Lakers this year...So Miami must have ruined the league! Lmao, such a played out cop out to excuse "Your" team from failing again this year. Miami won the 2010 FA...It's 2013, get over it already. So if NY acuires another superstar this offseason to help Melo finaly win a ship, does that mean he wouldn't have earned it?

BklynKnicks3
05-29-2013, 09:33 AM
can use amnesty twice we used it on billups
I agree with you here. The Knicks are very close to being a championship team, and I don't know the Knicks cap situation, but I think Amnestying Amare and getting more talent around Melo is needed. If this worked and they won a Championship, I wouldn't go around crying about how the Knicks are a stacked team and the title shouldn't count, and that NY ruined the league. I'd think they earned it, and of course Melo needed more help, because TEAMS win ships, not an individual player.

Rndy
05-29-2013, 09:43 AM
For me Heat will be viewed as a team of superstars that didn't have the competitive drive to make their own teams compete. They tried to act like their situation was the same as Boston. KG and Ray Allen weren't the same players when they came to Boston. They were just ending their prime when they all came together. Miami was just entering theirs it's not even close to the same situation.

And if Lebron leaves Miami to rejoin the Cavs I think it makes the situation even worse. Because just as one team starts aging he joins another team that has loaded up on talent while he's been gone.

As a team they're really good though got to give them that. Unlike NYK and Nets who tried to do similar things they actually got the players to do it. Their stars play defense while the other teams don't. NYK and BKN just took a short cut that didn't work.

Jenceman
05-29-2013, 09:47 AM
I feel like some Lakers teams were more hated than this current Heat team

ChicagoJ
05-29-2013, 09:50 AM
Most teams that are expected to win will have more people rooting against them than not. I'm pretty sure alot of people didn't want to see the bulls win championships after they had 3. There were a ton of jordan fans, but plenty that rooted against them. As for the heat, it comes down to how they were put together. It's the main reason why people root against them. As they win more titles, the hate will probably grow a little more. But, even with the haters there are still plenty of lebron fans in addition to heat fans.

king4day
05-29-2013, 09:56 AM
I don't think the Heat will be any more hated if they win. More respected probably.
The better question would be, IF Miami LOSES, where do they go from here?

k.smith904
05-29-2013, 09:57 AM
They (meaning Lebron, Wade, Bosh) will be viewed as they are.

The players who changed the champions' mantra from "you gotta beat the best to be the best" to "if you cant beat em, join em."

ATX
05-29-2013, 10:07 AM
can use amnesty twice we used it on billups

Oh ya, thanks. Forgot about that. He has 2 more years under contract right? I guess that makes it tough to add that second superstar that they will need. SHould be an interesting off-season for the Knicks, seeing how they look to add talent around Melo.

Max.This
05-29-2013, 10:14 AM
if they stop flopping, then they'd probably be more respected around the league. There are dozens upon dozens of clips of both wade and James flopping like hell. Not to mention Mario Chalmers acts like a fish out of water when theres a gust of wind. I have no beef with stars pairing up, but act like it on the court.

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 10:15 AM
Frontrunners who wanted to make winning chips as easy as they possibly could before even entering their prime.

Big Zo
05-29-2013, 10:31 AM
They (meaning Lebron, Wade, Bosh) will be viewed as they are.

The players who changed the champions' mantra from "you gotta beat the best to be the best" to "if you cant beat em, join em."

So what you're saying is the Heat invented free agency. Gotcha.

UPRock
05-29-2013, 10:34 AM
Knicks fans really really hate Miami.

koreancabbage
05-29-2013, 10:49 AM
I don't hate the Heat, but I would prefer SA to win it all, because I have a ton of respect for Timmy, TP, Pop and their SMALL fanbase.

fixed

ManRam
05-29-2013, 10:59 AM
a bunch of front runners who joined up and form a pre determined all star team to try and form a monopoly rather then EARN there accomplishments by going at each other like the other greats.

says the melo fan...

BklynKnicks3
05-29-2013, 10:59 AM
everyone i know thta is not a lebron fan boy hates the heat. You would think knicks fans would cheer for miami since pacers beat us but Every Knick fan i know is a die hard pacer fan right now I just ordered my Lance jersey hopefully series wont be over by the time i get it

SlimKid
05-29-2013, 10:59 AM
Gotta love it when someone hates a team then assumes everyone else hates them as well.

BklynKnicks3
05-29-2013, 11:00 AM
even if Amare is what he used to be he doesnt touch wades Level in fact Bosh is probabaly better so how can u compare.
says the melo fan...

archdevil84
05-29-2013, 11:04 AM
i'm not a lebron fan, i'm a wade fan :D and i stil love the heat even if they will lose this series (which i HOPE they do not, but they might if they continue to play like yesterday)

Muttman73
05-29-2013, 11:06 AM
Nothing is predetermined. They still had to come together as a team, and fight for Championships just like the stacked teams of the Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, and Celtics. Just too bad it didn't work out for the Knicks and the Lakers this year...So Miami must have ruined the league! Lmao, such a played out cop out to excuse "Your" team from failing again this year. Miami won the 2010 FA...It's 2013, get over it already. So if NY acuires another superstar this offseason to help Melo finaly win a ship, does that mean he wouldn't have earned it?

STOP

If the BULLS are stacked as you say at least they did it via the draft, ROSE, DENG, NOAH, BUTLER with minimal FA signings BOOZER and vet fill ins. They did not play the system and make a mockery of the league while feeding their endless egos.

nycericanguy
05-29-2013, 11:06 AM
Look, what MIA did is unprecedented. The top 2 players in the game have never come together and joined forces, let alone adding Chris Bosh and then Ray Allen.

The truth is barring injury they will be the clear cut favorites for the next several years. The only way another team can compete is if they have a magical Cinderella type run. But realistically, what MIA did, no other team will be able to duplicate. For example, right now, CP3 I'm sure would love to join Melo, but it's just not possible. Just like Howard would love to join Dwil, but it's not possible. other teams have tried but it's just damn near impossible to get 3 stars together in their prime.

MIA either got really lucky, or planned this joining forces thing way ahead of time.

Chronz
05-29-2013, 11:08 AM
A band of brothers who came together before it was too late. True students of the game who realized the mistakes of stars who waited too long before leaving decrepit franchises.

Wade isn't in his prime do can we stop acting like this is a case of Magic joining Kareem.

xRipCity
05-29-2013, 11:10 AM
If it wasn't for guys like Dwight and Melo, LeBron would still be the most hated player in the NBA. Their own selfish acts have helped ease the pressure on LeBron.

In all seriousness though, LeBron waited for some help for 7 seasons in Cleveland. The management is so terrible there that the best piece they could get him is Antawn Jamison. In 2007 he carried the team on his back, with arguably the worst supporting cast in the history of NBA finals. It is also important to note that he was never put out in a first round in the playoffs (something that has happened to Jordan)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not starting the GOAT debate here (Jordan is the GOAT...) but Jordan took 7 years to get his first ring, and it definitely came with the acquisition of Scottie Pippen, his wingman. You can't do it yourself. LeBron waited 7 seasons for management to get him a wingman, and they couldn't. So with his aspirations to be the GOAT he did what anyone would and went and got himself his own Scottie Pippen, in Dwyane Wade.

nycericanguy
05-29-2013, 11:10 AM
A band of brothers who came together before it was too late. True students of the game who realized the mistakes of stars who waited too long before leaving decrepit franchises.

Wade isn't in his prime do can we stop acting like this is a case of Magic joining Kareem.

well we're talking 3 years later now, Wade in 2010 was arguably the 2nd best player in the game, 3rd at worst.

But still, a 21/5/5/2 on 52% SG... let's not act like he's washed up... he's clearly not at 100% right now, but he's still a franchise player.

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 11:11 AM
says the melo fan...

Really now? Your going to compare the Heat team that was assembled to Melo, Amare and filler scrubs? Even if Amare was healthy and he and Melo actually fit together they were still nowhere near as good as the Heat.

Melo did the complete opposite, he went a worse team in the same conference to try and take the superfriends out. He went to a team who was a complete longshot to make some noise, LeBron went to a team people were saying would win 72 games in their first season. Just because Wade sucks 3 years later, doesn't mean LeBron didn't force his way to a team with hands down more talent than anyone else in the league.

koreancabbage
05-29-2013, 11:11 AM
STOP

If the BULLS are stacked as you say at least they did it via the draft, ROSE, DENG, NOAH, BUTLER with minimal FA signings BOOZER and vet fill ins. They did not play the system and make a mockery of the league while feeding their endless egos.

teams get stacked either way. The system is there and they played within the rules. Don't hate the players, hate the game. People are acting as if its the players faults that they could get together in free agency b/c, you know, its like against the rules or some kind of unwritten rule you can't do it.

People are just mad b/c the three players got together in Miami, and not their own team, and that Miami homer fans annoy the **** out of everyone in this forum. Additionally, no one really would really hate or care until Miami were talked about endlessly by ESPN or homer fans in forums.

siix
05-29-2013, 11:16 AM
For me Heat will be viewed as a team of superstars that didn't have the competitive drive to make their own teams compete. They tried to act like their situation was the same as Boston. KG and Ray Allen weren't the same players when they came to Boston. They were just ending their prime when they all came together. Miami was just entering theirs it's not even close to the same situation.

And if Lebron leaves Miami to rejoin the Cavs I think it makes the situation even worse. Because just as one team starts aging he joins another team that has loaded up on talent while he's been gone.

As a team they're really good though got to give them that. Unlike NYK and Nets who tried to do similar things they actually got the players to do it. Their stars play defense while the other teams don't. NYK and BKN just took a short cut that didn't work.

agreed

koreancabbage
05-29-2013, 11:20 AM
Really now? Your going to compare the Heat team that was assembled to Melo, Amare and filler scrubs like? Even if Amare was healthy and he and Melo actually fit together they were still nowhere near as good as the Heat.

Melo did the complete opposite, he went a worse team in the same conference to try and take the superfriends out. He went to a team who was a complete longshot to make some noise, LeBron went to a team people were saying would win 72 games in their first season. Just because Wade sucks 3 years later, doesn't mean LeBron didn't force his way to a team with hands down more talent than anyone else in the league.

so NY didn't assemble Amare and Melo together, who are premier players at their positions. right. It was an experiment that went wrong. just admit it. Melo wanted to play with Amare, who was coming off of one of his finest seasons, career wise, in NY. People were arguing that Amare > Bosh at that moment in time.

Only difference is that New York had no star player to begin with or cap space. Miami had a special opportunity b/c Wade was already with them. and the fact they were friends to begin. social media and interaction at its best.

Chronz
05-29-2013, 11:21 AM
A band of brothers who came together before it was too late. True students of the game who realized the mistakes of stars who waited too long before leaving decrepit franchises.

Wade isn't in his prime do can we stop acting like this is a case of Magic joining Kareem.

well we're talking 3 years later now, Wade in 2010 was arguably the 2nd best player in the game, 3rd at worst.

But still, a 21/5/5/2 on 52% SG... let's not act like he's washed up... he's clearly not at 100% right now, but he's still a franchise player.
Having 1 year left of peak play is why he had to find some one to anchor his career to. Dude knows it too, hes been awful these last 2 post seasons.

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 11:23 AM
A band of brothers who came together before it was too late. True students of the game who realized the mistakes of stars who waited too long before leaving decrepit franchises.

Wade isn't in his prime do can we stop acting like this is a case of Magic joining Kareem.

So basically Lebron wasn't the best player in the league and Wade wasn't argueably the #2 player in the league at the time of them pairing up??? Also Bosh a top 20 player in the league wasn't entering his prime...

It's your memory though so I guess you can remember them how you want to...

As for me I'll remember them as a bunch of top stars who came together to try and win some easy championships and afterwards jumped around on stage and said they would win 7 plus championships and I'm sure the youtube videos will still be around in case our memories fail us.

BklynKnicks3
05-29-2013, 11:26 AM
exactly what i dont get is how can u credit lebron for a ring if u can place about 5 to 10 players in his postion and they would win as well not to mention how small he came up vs dallas its 90% his fault he doesnt have 2 rings to be real nothing they are doing is impressive to sorry and I know iam not alone
So basically Lebron wasn't the best player in the league and Wade wasn't argueably the #2 player in the league at the time of them pairing up??? Also Bosh a top 20 player in the league wasn't entering his prime...

It's your memory though so I guess you can remember them how you want to...

As for me I'll remember them as a bunch of top stars who came together to try and win some easy championships and afterwards jumped around on stage and said they would win 7 plus championships and I'm sure the youtube videos will still be around in case our memories fail us.

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 11:26 AM
so NY didn't assemble Amare and Melo together, who are premier players at their positions. right. It was an experiment that went wrong. just admit it. Melo wanted to play with Amare, who was coming off of one of his finest seasons, career wise, in NY. People were arguing that Amare > Bosh at that moment in time.

Only difference is that New York had no star player to begin with or cap space. Miami had a special opportunity b/c Wade was already with them. and the fact they were friends to begin. social media and interaction at its best.

Even if Amare worked out, it was still a longshot that they would be able to compete with Miami. There is a giant talent gap between a core of Melo and Amare and a core of LeBron + Wade + Bosh. Of course guys were going to flock to teams with talent once Miami decided to raise the bar about 100 levels by teaming two of the 3 best players in the game with another all star.

nycericanguy
05-29-2013, 11:34 AM
Even if Amare worked out, it was still a longshot that they would be able to compete with Miami. There is a giant talent gap between a core of Melo and Amare and a core of LeBron + Wade + Bosh. Of course guys were going to flock to teams with talent once Miami decided to raise the bar about 100 levels by teaming two of the 3 best players in the game with another all star.

pretty much, if your coworker gets a brand new state of the art supercomputer and is able to work twice as fast, you're going to want the same to keep up. Heck even Lebron told Melo that he "better team up" if he wants to compete. That's how the whole CP3/Amare/Melo toast started.

but lets be real, even a prime, healthy Amare with Melo is no match compared to prime LBJ/Wade/Bosh.

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 11:35 AM
Boston showed the world that you could pair three players in the top 15 range and form a dominant, championship squad. Those guys were all past their prime all stars who nobody would even consider top 10 at the time. They proved thats enough to win a championship.

The Heat decided to take that into a whole another level, to make winning chips a virtual guarantee and making sure it got as easy as it possibly could. The best player in the world had to form a big 3 that trumped any big 3 in the league, talent wise, by a nautical mile. Honestly, it would be the equivalent of MJ leaving in 1990 and forcing his way to a team with Hakeem and another all star on it. That would actually be more understandable because MJ would be just about 30 where LeBron was 26 when he decided it was time to go ring chasing.

Tony_Starks
05-29-2013, 11:42 AM
To say the Heat are the "most hated" champs ever is a HUGE exaggeration. The Bad Boy Pistons were the most hated by far and it's not even close. Hell I could even argue people hated the Lakers winning more.

People are still salty over how they got together and there will always be jealousy but its not some kind of monumental unprecedented amount of hate. People love to hate on the champs, that just comes with the territory.

sep11ie
05-29-2013, 11:44 AM
I'll look at them as a whiny dirty team. The big 3 itself will be a disappointment. They couldn't do it themselves like they thought the 1st year.

nycericanguy
05-29-2013, 11:50 AM
To say the Heat are the "most hated" champs ever is a HUGE exaggeration. The Bad Boy Pistons were the most hated by far and it's not even close. Hell I could even argue people hated the Lakers winning more.

People are still salty over how they got together and there will always be jealousy but its not some kind of monumental unprecedented amount of hate. People love to hate on the champs, that just comes with the territory.

I'm not old enough to remember the Pistons, but I never hated the Lakers, and though I hated MJ when he played against NY, I loved to watch him win otherwise.

Then again, its probably more exciting to try to beat the bad guys, vs having them on your side.

As a Yankee fan the '96 team was so enjoyable to watch and follow, the 2009 team where they just went out and bought the best players? Not so much, no real connection to that team, it's not as fun to win when you're supposed to win and have an all star team.

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 11:55 AM
pretty much, if your coworker gets a brand new state of the art supercomputer and is able to work twice as fast, you're going to want the same to keep up. Heck even Lebron told Melo that he "better team up" if he wants to compete. That's how the whole CP3/Amare/Melo toast started.

but lets be real, even a prime, healthy Amare with Melo is no match compared to prime LBJ/Wade/Bosh.

Thats probably the worst part about it. After he felt the needed to form a superteam that trumped the rest of the league, he decided to pretty much laugh at the rest of the NBA and tell them all how easy it was gonna be for them to breeze through and win 7 rings.

'Now its gonna be easy' actually came out of his mouth during their preseason championship parade. How can anyone respect a frontrunner of that magnitude is beyond me. I appreciate Bron's greatness, but I will never be able to root for that guy.

ManRam
05-29-2013, 11:55 AM
Really now? Your going to compare the Heat team that was assembled to Melo, Amare and filler scrubs? Even if Amare was healthy and he and Melo actually fit together they were still nowhere near as good as the Heat.

Melo did the complete opposite, he went a worse team in the same conference to try and take the superfriends out. He went to a team who was a complete longshot to make some noise, LeBron went to a team people were saying would win 72 games in their first season. Just because Wade sucks 3 years later, doesn't mean LeBron didn't force his way to a team with hands down more talent than anyone else in the league.

Melo begged and forced his way to New York in an effort to form a trio with Amare and CP3. They made a pact. The Heat players didn't even ever do that.

His super team failed, LeBron's didn't. That's the only difference.

Don't act like they had different intentions. Melo was far more aggressive about it all too.

crnklyaddicted
05-29-2013, 11:57 AM
Anybody hating on the Heat sound ignorant, Did you guys notice it takes more than just adding talent ?? It takes chemistry something that the Lakers, Knicks don't have.. They tried to do the same as Miami and failed !!






the heat have 3 franchise players if melo can get passed them with 1 Legit all star Thats amazing to me since Durant westbrook and harden couldnt even do it. Everyone needs help to win but 3 guys who where franchise players all on the same team in their prime and to say thats earned smh

nycericanguy
05-29-2013, 11:59 AM
Melo begged and forced his way to New York in an effort to form a trio with Amare and CP3. They made a pact. The Heat players didn't even ever do that.

His super team failed, LeBron's didn't. That's the only difference.

Don't act like they had different intentions. Melo was far more aggressive about it all too.

Melo had to have known that NY couldn't afford CP3 if he came on board, and would have nothing left to trade, so I doubt that was the case.

Furthermore that was a reaction to MIA's big 3.

Other players want to win chips too you know, they aren't going to sit around watching MIA make a prime all star team and not want to have a chance to compete.

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 12:03 PM
Melo begged and forced his way to New York in an effort to form a trio with Amare and CP3. They made a pact. The Heat players didn't even ever do that.

His super team failed, LeBron's didn't. That's the only difference.

Don't act like they had different intentions. Melo was far more aggressive about it all too.

lol, Knicks didn't even have cap space, and outside of a drunken toast it was never even considered remotely likely to happen.

LeBron guaranteed himself, the best player in the league, to play on a team that trumped everyone else with talent by a wide margin. Did Melo go to NY hoping and praying CP3 would follow to form a big 3 that could compete with the super friends? Maybe, but it was a big time longshot from day 1 and was only even 'toasted' to and talked about as a reaction to LeBron making sure his team was lightyears ahead of the rest of the pack and even telling Melo 'you better team up with CP3' if you want a shot to compete.

Either way, how are you gonna say 'they made a pact' and the Heat players didn't just because CP3 had a drunken toast at Melo's wedding? CP3, Melo, Amare joining forces was out of CP3, Melo, Amare's control.

They couldn't make that 'pact' because they had no control over the situation and no power to execute it.

Chronz
05-29-2013, 12:09 PM
A band of brothers who came together before it was too late. True students of the game who realized the mistakes of stars who waited too long before leaving decrepit franchises.

Wade isn't in his prime do can we stop acting like this is a case of Magic joining Kareem.

So basically Lebron wasn't the best player in the league and Wade wasn't argueably the #2 player in the league at the time of them pairing up??? Also Bosh a top 20 player in the league wasn't entering his prime...

It's your memory though so I guess you can remember them how you want to...

As for me I'll remember them as a bunch of top stars who came together to try and win some easy championships and afterwards jumped around on stage and said they would win 7 plus championships and I'm sure the youtube videos will still be around in case our memories fail us.
Run that by me again because what you bolded doesn't correlate with your straw man argument

ManRam
05-29-2013, 12:19 PM
lol, Knicks didn't even have cap space, and outside of a drunken toast it was never even considered remotely likely to happen.

LeBron guaranteed himself, the best player in the league, to play on a team that trumped everyone else with talent by a wide margin. Did Melo go to NY hoping and praying CP3 would follow to form a big 3 that could compete with the super friends? Maybe, but it was a big time longshot from day 1 and was only even 'toasted' to and talked about as a reaction to LeBron making sure his team was lightyears ahead of the rest of the pack and even telling Melo 'you better team up with CP3' if you want a shot to compete.

Either way, how are you gonna say 'they made a pact' and the Heat players didn't just because CP3 had a drunken toast at Melo's wedding? CP3, Melo, Amare joining forces was out of CP3, Melo, Amare's control.

They couldn't make that 'pact' because they had no control over the situation and no power to execute it.

pact or not...we know what melo's intentions were, and he was far more hellbent to get it than anyone in miami appeared to be.


lebron went to go get help he never had. whatever. he wasn't blessed with that help like so many others of the all time greats were. who cares how he got on a great team?


the good thing for those who want to see him fail is that for the second time in a row now wade has played more like a role player than an all-star. this time it might cost them again. last year was even worse in this same exact series against the pacers; wade sucked and bosh didn't even play.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 12:39 PM
Melo begged and forced his way to New York in an effort to form a trio with Amare and CP3. They made a pact. The Heat players didn't even ever do that.

His super team failed, LeBron's didn't. That's the only difference.

Don't act like they had different intentions. Melo was far more aggressive about it all too.

Of course they had similar intentions...It was the only way for Melo to try and compete! After the superfriends got together "Melo-drama" began. Don't act like Melo and Lebron were in a race to get to a big 3, Lebron, Wade and Bosh teamed up so Melo realized he had to also.


And to your point about Melo being helbent on making it happen; at least he put his team in position to get something in return for him.

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 12:39 PM
Run that by me again because what you bolded doesn't correlate with your straw man argument

Wade was the 2nd best player in the league while Lebron was the best player in the league... LOL.

Also there clearly was no arguement just in your head since I said if you want to remember them that way you can as a band of brothers who came together (what a crock of crap).

I'll remember them as the #1 and #2 player in the league joining forces with another top tier talent who jumped around and gloated about how easy it would be to win 7 plus championships.

That's it :D

We can argue about it if you want though.

ManRam
05-29-2013, 12:45 PM
Of course they had similar intentions...It was the only way for Melo to try and compete! After the superfriends got together "Melo-drama" began. Don't act like Melo and Lebron were in a race to get to a big 3, Lebron, Wade and Bosh teamed up so Melo realized he had to also.


And to your point about Melo being helbent on making it happen; at least he put his team in position to get something in return for him.

this is always an argument i've found to be twisted.

lebron honored his contract and left when he had the right to. since when do we bash players for that? probably never ever before. he was a freaking free agent and people were crucifying him for leaving. yet, thousands have done it before him without anger.


melo didn't do it to do his team a favor :laugh2: don't act like he's a saint. he was just far more desperate.

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 12:46 PM
pact or not...we know what melo's intentions were, and he was far more hellbent to get it than anyone in miami appeared to be.


lebron went to go get help he never had. whatever. he wasn't blessed with that help like so many others of the all time greats were. who cares how he got on a great team?


the good thing for those who want to see him fail is that for the second time in a row now wade has played more like a role player than an all-star. this time it might cost them again. last year was even worse in this same exact series against the pacers; wade sucked and bosh didn't even play.

If they sucked so bad and it was all LBJ then maybe he shouldn't have joined the heat and stayed on the Cav's... If Wade and Bosh suck and are non factors in there championship run by what your saying he had a better squad on the cavs...

Guess he should have just stayed put by your logic.

ManRam
05-29-2013, 12:47 PM
If they sucked so bad and it was all LBJ then maybe he shouldn't have joined the heat and stayed on the Cav's... If Wade and Bosh suck and are non factors in there championship run by what your saying he had a better squad on the cavs...

Guess he should have just stayed put by your logic.

you have reading comprehension issues :laugh2:

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 12:49 PM
you have reading comprehension issues :laugh2:

Good one!

ManRam
05-29-2013, 12:53 PM
Good one!

you just completely missed my point :shrug:

of course he wasn't better off in cleveland. there was nothing there. i wouldn't ever say that, nor do i even remotely think that. :laugh2:

The Flash
05-29-2013, 01:06 PM
Problem would be a whole lot different if LeBron went to their team

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 01:12 PM
you just completely missed my point :shrug:

of course he wasn't better off in cleveland. there was nothing there. i wouldn't ever say that, nor do i even remotely think that. :laugh2:

No I understood your point I'm really just laughing at how you are making Wade and Bosh sound like nobody's in that post which is why I made that comment but I guess I didn't make that obvious enough when I said...



If Wade and Bosh suck and are non factors in there championship run by what your saying he had a better squad on the cavs...


Stop trying to make them sound like they are non factors and everything is on LBJ. I mean if you look at the roster aside from Wade and Bosh last year he did have a better squad on the Cavs so seriously just stop.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20130527/chris-bosh-miami-heat-indiana-pacers-eastern-conference-finals-2013/#ixzz2UhbSWeTx


(Below talking about last years playoff run)




Bosh's rebounding numbers aren't impressive (he's averaging just 3.3. per game in the Eastern finals), but Spoelstra says he and Battier rate highly in terms of box-outs and preventing their opponents from rebounding. The importance of Bosh became obvious when he was injured in Game 1 of the conference semifinals against Indiana one year ago. "When Chris went out our first year [2010-11] for two weeks, that's when everybody realized how important he was for us," said Spoelstra. "And that's why last year, when he went out the first game of Indiana, our first initial reaction -- everybody, collectively -- was like, 'We're in trouble.' Because he had that much of an effect on our team."

It was no exaggeration. They survived the series against the Pacers, but they probably would not have beaten the Celtics if Bosh had not returned in time.



At least Spo has a lick of sense and last years series against Boston did go to 7 games if Bosh was not around Lebron would still be searching for his 1st ring. It's sad to see you making these guys seem like none factors in this team up of superstars in last years championship run.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 01:13 PM
this is always an argument i've found to be twisted.

lebron honored his contract and left when he had the right to. since when do we bash players for that? probably never ever before. he was a freaking free agent and people were crucifying him for leaving. yet, thousands have done it before him without anger.


melo didn't do it to do his team a favor :laugh2: don't act like he's a saint. he was just far more desperate.

He may not have done it on purpose, but it was a consequence nonetheless.

And "Lebron honored his contract" :laugh: Sure didn't seem like it when he quit against the Celtics in the Playoffs.

Hoopsadvocate
05-29-2013, 01:18 PM
a bunch of front runners who joined up and form a pre determined all star team to try and form a monopoly rather then EARN there accomplishments by going at each other like the other greats.

Oh you mean like the Celtics did with KG, R Allen, and paul pierce in their primes as well? Or like the Lakers did with Wilt, J West, and Elgin Baylor or how they did now with Dwight (MVP candidate and 1st team all nba and all defense player the year before) Kobe (still 1st team all NBA and mvp candidate) and Pau/nash.

Or how the Knicks tried and failed miserably with their Amare, Melo combo. Talent doesnt = automatic accomplishment as none of the teams with the exception of the WIlt/West/Baylor combo and celtics won a championship. And then they only won it once.

So they had to have earned it if not they would simply all have won championships no problem for as long as they were together.



the heat have 3 franchise players if melo can get passed them with 1 Legit all star Thats amazing to me since Durant westbrook and harden couldnt even do it. Everyone needs help to win but 3 guys who where franchise players all on the same team in their prime and to say thats earned smh.

Precisly why knick fans and you yourself are looked at as whiney and bitter. You all claimed amare was better than bosh the first year and bash him all the time and now for the sake of your argument he is a franchise player? he led the raptors to 1 playoff appearence so by your definition of franchise player Pau gasol is also a franchise player and so is dany granger cause he was the best player on an indiana team last year or how about brandon jennings of the bucks ?

Your logic is terrible and you sound simply bitter.

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 01:24 PM
Problem would be a whole lot different if LeBron went to their team

To me that's not the problem it's more that he did something that I can't recall in all of sports history and that's a #1 and #2 player in the league taking paycuts not only to play together (with another top tier talent in Bosh) but to get some extra talent beyond themselves. The dancing around on stage and gloating about how many championships they would win just made things worse for themselves.

LoveMeOrHateMe
05-29-2013, 01:25 PM
I will remember the heat as dirty,cheating,flopping bastards! Yes that's because of wade and lebron!

The Flash
05-29-2013, 01:25 PM
Oh you mean like the Celtics did with KG, R Allen, and paul pierce in their primes as well? Or like the Lakers did with Wilt, J West, and Elgin Baylor or how they did now with Dwight (MVP candidate and 1st team all nba and all defense player the year before) Kobe (still 1st team all NBA and mvp candidate) and Pau/nash.

Or how the Knicks tried and failed miserably with their Amare, Melo combo. Talent doesnt = automatic accomplishment as none of the teams with the exception of the WIlt/West/Baylor combo and celtics won a championship. And then they only won it once.

So they had to have earned it if not they would simply all have won championships no problem for as long as they were together.




Precisly why knick fans and you yourself are looked at as whiney and bitter. You all claimed amare was better than bosh the first year and bash him all the time and now for the sake of your argument he is a franchise player? he led the raptors to 1 playoff appearence so by your definition of franchise player Pau gasol is also a franchise player and so is dany granger cause he was the best player on an indiana team last year or how about brandon jennings of the bucks ?

Your logic is terrible and you sound simply bitter.

Good post

The Flash
05-29-2013, 01:29 PM
To me that's not the problem it's more that he did something that I can't recall in all of sports history and that's a #1 and #2 player in the league taking paycuts not only to play together (with another top tier talent in Bosh) but to get some extra talent beyond themselves. The dancing around on stage and gloating about how many championships they would win just made things worse for themselves.
Get over it, the celebration was for the fans. It's always the same arguments and its always from the fans of the teams that had something to lose from that 2010 free agency. Recently it's laker fans who had it so well for so long they can't handle it now.

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 01:35 PM
Get over it, the celebration was for the fans. It's always the same arguments and its always from the fans of the teams that had something to lose from that 2010 free agency. Recently it's laker fans who had it so well for so long they can't handle it now.


You focused on my side arguement opposed to the #1 and #2 players in the league which has never been done in sports history joining together and taking paycuts (with Bosh) so they can slap even more talent onto that team to try and get some easy championships.

It's something that is unheard of in sports not just basketball unless you have an example before them doing this. I think that's what the bitterness was more over with fans but there gloating did not help win people over either.

Chronz
05-29-2013, 01:44 PM
If they sucked so bad and it was all LBJ then maybe he shouldn't have joined the heat and stayed on the Cav's... If Wade and Bosh suck and are non factors in there championship run by what your saying he had a better squad on the cavs...

Guess he should have just stayed put by your logic.

you have reading comprehension issues :laugh2:
cosign

Kids these days and their strawmens

JoeBlessU
05-29-2013, 01:47 PM
Problem would be a whole lot different if LeBron went to their team

I would rather root for a losing team than one with a guy who calls himself "the chosen one". That is the single douchiest tattoo in the NBA... Sorry, cant cheer for a guy who considers himself a god and looks at his fans as peasants

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 01:48 PM
If they sucked so bad and it was all LBJ then maybe he shouldn't have joined the heat and stayed on the Cav's... If Wade and Bosh suck and are non factors in there championship run by what your saying he had a better squad on the cavs...

Guess he should have just stayed put by your logic.

you have reading comprehension issues :laugh2:
cosign

Kids these days and their strawmens

Good custom quote cutting and paste very impressive :clap:

naps
05-29-2013, 01:56 PM
Damn, trolls are coming out with full force as if the world has come to an end. All these with a conference finals tied up 2-2. Imagine if they actually lose the series. I feel bad for these kids life, these are the ones with no friends and sitting in one corner of class with no one giving them slight attention. Hence, they spend hours in front of computer to get a better feel of life. Can't really blame them tbh.

Laidback_Scrapp
05-29-2013, 01:58 PM
Not really. There's more brokeback bandwagon heat riders than haters this year and unfortunately if they win its gunna get worse. Go spurs

JoeBlessU
05-29-2013, 01:58 PM
Damn, trolls are coming out with full force as if the world has come to an end. All these with a conference finals tied up 2-2. Imagine if they actually lose the series. I feel bad for these kids life, these are the ones with no friends and sitting in one corner of class with no one giving them slight attention. Hence, they spend hours in front of computer to get a better feel of life. Can't really blame them tbh.

LOL..Says the guy sitting and typing on a computer attempting desperately to defend a guy who has no idea u even exist.

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 02:05 PM
LOL..Says the guy sitting and typing on a computer attempting desperately to defend a guy who has no idea u even exist.

:laugh:

naps
05-29-2013, 02:14 PM
LOL..Says the guy sitting and typing on a computer attempting desperately to defend a guy who has no idea u even exist.

Who am I defending there? I didn't defend any player in my post. May be you did read my post and since I nailed it that you are one of those 9th graders in school with no friends, you got mad and said I was defending some player. Funny every time I see you post, it's about one specific player. Never seen you post anything else. Why so obsessed? I feel pity.

JoeBlessU
05-29-2013, 02:19 PM
Who am I defending there? I didn't defend any player in my post. May be you did read my post and since I nailed it that you are one of those 9th graders in school with no friends, you got mad and said I was defending some player. Funny every time I see you post, it's about one specific player. Never seen you post anything else. Why so obsessed? I feel pity.

U never see me post anything else because ur only in lebron threads, i post MN forums daily, good try tho

SteBO
05-29-2013, 02:19 PM
Really now? Your going to compare the Heat team that was assembled to Melo, Amare and filler scrubs? Even if Amare was healthy and he and Melo actually fit together they were still nowhere near as good as the Heat.

Melo did the complete opposite, he went a worse team in the same conference to try and take the superfriends out. He went to a team who was a complete longshot to make some noise, LeBron went to a team people were saying would win 72 games in their first season. Just because Wade sucks 3 years later, doesn't mean LeBron didn't force his way to a team with hands down more talent than anyone else in the league.
Oh what a crime.....

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-29-2013, 02:20 PM
a bunch of front runners who joined up and form a pre determined all star team to try and form a monopoly rather then EARN there accomplishments by going at each other like the other greats.

+1

Burgo
05-29-2013, 02:20 PM
LOL..Says the guy sitting and typing on a computer attempting desperately to defend a guy who has no idea u even exist.

Funny!

ghettosean
05-29-2013, 02:21 PM
Who am I defending there? I didn't defend any player in my post. May be you did read my post and since I nailed it that you are one of those 9th graders in school with no friends, you got mad and said I was defending some player. I feel pity.

Hey Naps did you notice that you joined PSD after JoeBlessU and you have more than 15 times the posts he does. If there's a troll in here and someone who sits in front of a computer all day it's not him dude but if saying that makes you feel happy and like a big man then just be happy dude!

Hey you have a ton more posts than me too but I'm sure you have friends and a life and an elephant and a pet giraffe too :D

JoeBlessU
05-29-2013, 02:23 PM
Hey Naps did you notice that you joined PSD after JoeBlessU and you have more than 15 times the posts he does. If there's a troll in here and someone who sits in front of a computer all day it's not him dude but if saying that makes you feel happy and like a big man then just be happy dude!

Hey you have a ton more posts than me too but I'm sure you have friends and a life and an elephant and a pet giraffe too :D

Thank You!..

sunnyice
05-29-2013, 02:24 PM
So do the heat haters think that a Lebron wade duo is better than a jordan pippen duo?

MyDRoseLikeDeng
05-29-2013, 02:36 PM
Although I respect the talent on the team, I dont respect and never will respect how they were constructed. I dont condone trading/signing of superstars to help you win titles and I definitely dont condone superstars hopping on another team to try to win titles. The teams that build the right way have it pay off for them eventually, as has been seen in the Spurs, and other teams will get to the mountain top as well including the Bulls and Thunder

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 02:40 PM
So do the heat haters think that a Lebron wade duo is better than a jordan pippen duo?

When they first teamed up you could argue they were above the talent level relative to their peers. LeBron was #1 guy in the NBA, Wade was 2 or 3 by pretty much all accounts.

As good as Scottie was, did anyone ever consider him a top 3 player?

Also, as a pair, MJ and Scottie complimented each other much better than Wade and LBJ do. Wade and LBJ are so smart and unselfish they make it work but their skills and weaknesses are pretty redundant and they are pretty close to the same player - its hard for them both to play to their peak simultaneously because of that.

D-Leethal
05-29-2013, 02:41 PM
Oh what a crime.....

Crime? No. Unprecedented way to expedite the process of winning rings and doing everything in your power to eliminate adversity out of the equation? Yes.

Lakers Ghost
05-29-2013, 02:42 PM
So basically Lebron wasn't the best player in the league and Wade wasn't argueably the #2 player in the league at the time of them pairing up??? Also Bosh a top 20 player in the league wasn't entering his prime...

It's your memory though so I guess you can remember them how you want to...

As for me I'll remember them as a bunch of top stars who came together to try and win some easy championships and afterwards jumped around on stage and said they would win 7 plus championships and I'm sure the youtube videos will still be around in case our memories fail us.

+1

SteBO
05-29-2013, 02:43 PM
Although I respect the talent on the team, I dont respect and never will respect how they were constructed. I dont condone trading/signing of superstars to help you win titles and I definitely dont condone superstars hopping on another team to try to win titles. The teams that build the right way have it pay off for them eventually, as has been seen in the Spurs, and other teams will get to the mountain top as well including the Bulls and Thunder
Name me the teams this past decade outside of San Antonio and maybe Detroit that won titles without trading for or signing superstars.

MyDRoseLikeDeng
05-29-2013, 02:45 PM
Name me the teams this past decade outside of San Antonio and maybe Detroit that won titles without trading for or signing superstars.

Thats the sad part about it, the league has become superficial so to speak. But soon the tide will turn again towards the other teams, with the rise of Golden State, OKC, Chicago, Memphis, Indiana, etc. But yes, for the past decade it has been about superstars teaming up

Hawkeye15
05-29-2013, 02:46 PM
every great team in history has its haters.

MyDRoseLikeDeng
05-29-2013, 02:46 PM
Dallas and Miami(first title) didnt really acquire superstars either btw unless Shaq counts but he wasnt the same player as his LA days

tr3ymill3r
05-29-2013, 03:03 PM
Gosh people make some stupid threads, go get some friends then talk about it with them.

Not sure if you know what you signed up for 1449 posts ago, but welcome to the forums.

eagles715
05-29-2013, 03:06 PM
The hate for LeBron is pretty laughable, honestly. We get it the guy did a TV show and left his team. That Cleveland team was horrendous. The 2nd best player was Delonte West for God's sake. He's been by far the best player on the floor for any team in the playoffs over the last 2 seasons. He's the reason they won last year and he'll be the reason again this year if they win. This team would not win without him and that's a fact. Without one of Wade or Bosh, I still think the Heat could win it all.

So if you want to bash him for wanting to win a championship, then bash him. But no one wins a Championship by themselves. LeBron will go down as one of the best ever regardless and how the Heat are remembered depends on what happens this year and over the next few years.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 03:23 PM
Oh you mean like the Celtics did with KG, R Allen, and paul pierce in their primes as well? Or like the Lakers did with Wilt, J West, and Elgin Baylor or how they did now with Dwight (MVP candidate and 1st team all nba and all defense player the year before) Kobe (still 1st team all NBA and mvp candidate) and Pau/nash.

First off, the situations you speak of are entirely different.

Allen/KG/Pierce were all 30 or older when they got together. They had all been doomed to mediocrity, or worse, in their previous situations and they were brought together through a series of trades during the draft, involving a stockpile of young assets and picks that the Celtics had gathered over the course of a couple of years.

This years Laker team is also very different. As you know, Kobe and Pau have been a dynamic duo in L.A. for quite a few years. They are now both past their primes as well. But when the Lakers traded for Dwight, they traded away Bynum who was 2nd team All-NBA the year before, it's not like they didn't give anything up. Nash is well past his prime as well and therefore does not fit the description of the BIG 3 joining in their primes either.

And finally, the old Lakers teams. I'm sure you thought you would get away with this one. Baylor and West were both drafted by the Lakers in '58 and '60 and Chamberlain didn't join the Lakers until he was 32 and his best days were behind him.


how the Knicks tried and failed miserably with their Amare, Melo combo.

Failed miserably eh? I mean, it's still up for debate how effective they would be together but given the success they had as a team despite a clear cut number 2 option on offense this year, it would be hard to argue that they would be much worse off with him healthy. That still doesn't even touch the amount of talent the Heat have.


they had to have earned it if not they would simply all have won championships no problem for as long as they were together.

That was the point though. Lebron even said, "Now it will be easy." They aren't earning their championships like the teams of the past have.


Precisly why knick fans and you yourself are looked at as whiney and bitter. You all claimed amare was better than bosh the first year and bash him all the time and now for the sake of your argument he is a franchise player?

Bosh has always been a franchise player. But the fact is that Amare outplayed Bosh in their first seasons with their new teams. Part of that is because Amare was his team's number 1, but regardless he was an MVP candidate that season until the huge trade.

Since then, Amare has been a walking injury and Bosh has been the third wheel on a Championship team...not hard to see why one is viewed more favorably now.


he led the raptors to 1 playoff appearence so by your definition of franchise player Pau gasol is also a franchise player and so is dany granger cause he was the best player on an indiana team last year or how about brandon jennings of the bucks ?

This is ridiculous. Jennings doesn't fit with these other guys by any definition. Pau was a franchise player in Memphis and Granger is, or at least was before his injury, a franchise player in Indiana.


Your logic is terrible and you sound simply bitter.

Pot, meet kettle.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 03:29 PM
When they first teamed up you could argue they were above the talent level relative to their peers. LeBron was #1 guy in the NBA, Wade was 2 or 3 by pretty much all accounts.

As good as Scottie was, did anyone ever consider him a top 3 player?

Also, as a pair, MJ and Scottie complimented each other much better than Wade and LBJ do. Wade and LBJ are so smart and unselfish they make it work but their skills and weaknesses are pretty redundant and they are pretty close to the same player - its hard for them both to play to their peak simultaneously because of that.

I was talking to one of my buddies about this last night.

It would have been interesting to see what Pippen would have been able to do had his career arch been the same as Wade's in terms of being the number 1 option at the beginning of his career.

JoeBlessU
05-29-2013, 03:40 PM
The hate for LeBron is pretty laughable, honestly. We get it the guy did a TV show and left his team. That Cleveland team was horrendous. The 2nd best player was Delonte West for God's sake. He's been by far the best player on the floor for any team in the playoffs over the last 2 seasons. He's the reason they won last year and he'll be the reason again this year if they win. This team would not win without him and that's a fact. Without one of Wade or Bosh, I still think the Heat could win it all.

So if you want to bash him for wanting to win a championship, then bash him. But no one wins a Championship by themselves. LeBron will go down as one of the best ever regardless and how the Heat are remembered depends on what happens this year and over the next few years.

Bosh would have signed with cleveland had lebron stayed.. If he could have won a title w/ just bosh why didnt he stay and avoid this image?..

I dont think anyone hates Lebron for what he does on the court (other than flopping of course)..Hes the best, by far. We hate him bcuz hes an arrogant piece of **** who thinks everything should go his way but whines when it doesn’t. We also hate him because he proclaims himself a god and insists he’s going to win 8 titles before he even has one. He has ZERO idea how to relate to fans (see his $$ comments this season) or be humble.. He hit the genetic lottery and thinks everyone should bow to him bcuz of it..thats why i hate him at least

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 03:46 PM
The hate for LeBron is pretty laughable, honestly. We get it the guy did a TV show and left his team. That Cleveland team was horrendous. The 2nd best player was Delonte West for God's sake. He's been by far the best player on the floor for any team in the playoffs over the last 2 seasons. He's the reason they won last year and he'll be the reason again this year if they win. This team would not win without him and that's a fact. Without one of Wade or Bosh, I still think the Heat could win it all.

So if you want to bash him for wanting to win a championship, then bash him. But no one wins a Championship by themselves. LeBron will go down as one of the best ever regardless and how the Heat are remembered depends on what happens this year and over the next few years.

Mo Williams, Big Z, Andy V, Antawn Jamison, J.J. Hickson and Shaq all say hi.

eagles715
05-29-2013, 03:58 PM
Mo Williams, Big Z, Andy V, Antawn Jamison, J.J. Hickson and Shaq all say hi. You're right my bad. But the players you named aren't really hurting my argument that that team was a joke.

ArmLaker
05-29-2013, 04:50 PM
I love how the Laker/Bulls/Knicks fans usually have similar if not the same views on everything. Imagine if all our franchises joined to make a super team

PG- Rose
SG- Kobe
SF- Melo
PF- Gasol
C- Howard
:drool:

Chronz
05-29-2013, 04:51 PM
Wade was the 2nd best player in the league while Lebron was the best player in the league... LOL.
Even if we agreed, what does that have to do with what you bolded?


Also there clearly was no arguement just in your head since I said if you want to remember them that way you can as a band of brothers who came together (what a crock of crap).
Why wouldn't I? They understand the history of the game and the limitations of being alone. They had already gone too long without support, why make the same mistakes of former older guys? Guys like Chuck or KG. KG wishes he could take back all those lost years, toiling around in Minny.



I'll remember them as the #1 and #2 player in the league joining forces with another top tier talent who jumped around and gloated about how easy it would be to win 7 plus championships.

That's it :D

We can argue about it if you want though.
I remember teams and players mostly for what they do on the court. How they played given their environment. Off court scandals and celebrations do little for me.

Chronz
05-29-2013, 04:53 PM
Mo Williams, Big Z, Andy V, Antawn Jamison, J.J. Hickson and Shaq all say hi.

Its sad that Delonte was arguably a better playoff performer than alot of them. It was a group I wish would have been coached differently.

knicksfan42
05-29-2013, 04:59 PM
Frontrunners who wanted to make winning chips as easy as they possibly could before even entering their prime.

Pretty much this.

Tony_Starks
05-29-2013, 05:13 PM
Better question is how will they be remembered if they lose to Indy or the Spurs...

RiceOnTheRun
05-29-2013, 06:24 PM
the heat have 3 franchise players if melo can get passed them with 1 Legit all star Thats amazing to me since Durant westbrook and harden couldnt even do it. Everyone needs help to win but 3 guys who where franchise players all on the same team in their prime and to say thats earned smh

Love the Knicks as much as anyone else, was honestly hoping they'd make it this year, but no chance you'd turn down an Amare, Chandler and Melo trade for Bron, Wade and Bosh if it were offered.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 06:44 PM
You're right my bad. But the players you named aren't really hurting my argument that that team was a joke.

Not really. That would make Delonte West the 7th best player on the team, a role that he would probably play on a contender today if he could keep his head together.

bucketss
05-29-2013, 06:48 PM
butt hurt knick fans all up in this thread.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 06:55 PM
Its sad that Delonte was arguably a better playoff performer than alot of them. It was a group I wish would have been coached differently.

Amen to that. I was just looking at some of the playoff numbers and the way Brown even distributed the minutes is putrid.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 06:57 PM
butt hurt knick fans all up in this thread.

Butthurt lol. According to everyone but us, we weren't supposed to be as good as we were.

You called us homers before the season and we were actually right. Other than wrong, what does that make you?

akesh99
05-29-2013, 07:24 PM
I agree with you here. The Knicks are very close to being a championship team, and I don't know the Knicks cap situation, but I think Amnestying Amare and getting more talent around Melo is needed. If this worked and they won a Championship, I wouldn't go around crying about how the Knicks are a stacked team and the title shouldn't count, and that NY ruined the league. I'd think they earned it, and of course Melo needed more help, because TEAMS win ships, not an individual player.

They already used the amnesty on Billups

ryang
05-29-2013, 07:49 PM
Surprised the knick fans aren't under there Rock. Oh wait they made it out the first round finally. There's no shutting them up now. The Heat will be viewed as a great team unless your on psd or the Internet. On here you've got people crying about how they ruined the league. Last I checked the eastern conference finals were deadlocked and we've got some pretty good basketball on our hands. Last year were you not entertained? Boston being up 3-2 headed back to Boston. They will be remembered as a team that somehow won mulitiple ships (hopefully) without being able to rebound the ball. Pretty good if you ask me.

Redrum187
05-29-2013, 07:51 PM
Having 1 year left of peak play is why he had to find some one to anchor his career to. Dude knows it too, hes been awful these last 2 post seasons.

I don't know what your measure for "mediocre" or "awesome" are, but I think it's ridiculous to call an average of: 20 pts 5 reb 5 ast 1 blk 1.7 stl on 46% fg and 72% ft shooting, "awful". Those are his stats in the last 35 playoff games (this post season and last). His career playoff stats are only slightly better in ppg but this has more to do with the addition of LeBron James and Chris Bosh as opposed to Wade playing like crap.

I'm open to hearing how his awful play is explained and illustrated from a non-statistical standpoint though.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 07:59 PM
Surprised the knick fans aren't under there Rock. Oh wait they made it out the first round finally. There's no shutting them up now. The Heat will be viewed as a great team unless your on psd or the Internet. On here you've got people crying about how they ruined the league. Last I checked the eastern conference finals were deadlocked and we've got some pretty good basketball on our hands. Last year were you not entertained? Boston being up 3-2 headed back to Boston. They will be remembered as a team that somehow won mulitiple ships (hopefully) without being able to rebound the ball. Pretty good if you ask me.

LOL see post #112...and change your diaper before tomorrow night.

DoMeFavors
05-29-2013, 08:01 PM
This makes me smile :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg720mch6BY

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 08:03 PM
I don't know what your measure for "mediocre" or "awesome" are, but I think it's ridiculous to call an average of: 20 pts 5 reb 5 ast 1 blk 1.7 stl on 46% fg and 72% ft shooting, "awful". Those are his stats in the last 35 playoff games (this post season and last). His career playoff stats are only slightly better in ppg but this has more to do with the addition of LeBron James and Chris Bosh as opposed to Wade playing like crap.

I'm open to hearing how his awful play is explained and illustrated from a non-statistical standpoint though.

check his playoff game log and you will see he has been anything but consistent.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 08:04 PM
This makes me smile :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg720mch6BY

because you're a heat fan?

ryang
05-29-2013, 08:04 PM
LOL see post #112...and change your diaper before tomorrow night.

Diaper ? Who's crying? Oh logical train of thought and knick fan don't mesh well. Ill be at that game Tomm and won't need a diaper.

KnickaBocka.44
05-29-2013, 08:06 PM
Diaper ? Who's crying? Oh logical train of thought and knick fan don't mesh well. Ill be at that game Tomm and won't need a diaper.

Didn't know you cried into diapers :confused: Logical train of FAIL for a Heat fan.

Swarley91
05-29-2013, 08:08 PM
A failure. 0 championships in three seasons, only title was in a shortened season and only counts as two thirds of a real one.

Redrum187
05-29-2013, 08:42 PM
check his playoff game log and you will see he has been anything but consistent.

"Inconsistency/consistency" and "horrible" are not synonymous. Chronz made a point to say his last two post seasons have been "awful." "Inconsistent" perhaps, but "awful?"

3ballbomber
05-29-2013, 08:56 PM
a bunch of front runners who joined up and form a pre determined all star team to try and form a monopoly rather then EARN there accomplishments by going at each other like the other greats.
sshhhh, you don't want to talk too much truth now.....they don't like that.

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 09:24 PM
Of course they had similar intentions...It was the only way for Melo to try and compete! After the superfriends got together "Melo-drama" began. Don't act like Melo and Lebron were in a race to get to a big 3, Lebron, Wade and Bosh teamed up so Melo realized he had to also.


And to your point about Melo being helbent on making it happen; at least he put his team in position to get something in return for him.

Or he could've gone what Rose and Durant did and stay put.


I will remember the heat as dirty,cheating,flopping bastards! Yes that's because of wade and lebron!

They're still better role models than your fav player.

ryang
05-29-2013, 10:31 PM
Didn't know you cried into diapers :confused: Logical train of FAIL for a Heat fan.

Figured diaper ment baby. Not that we r ****** on ourselfs. How would that make sence? You think Heat fans are scared right now? We're not.

ryang
05-29-2013, 10:32 PM
sshhhh, you don't want to talk too much truth now.....they don't like that.

Bosh? Going at it with Lebron or wade? Bosh isn't great. Wade is at the tail end of his career. Where do you guys make this stuff up at? Stop smoking.

ryang
05-30-2013, 12:29 AM
A failure. 0 championships in three seasons, only title was in a shortened season and only counts as two thirds of a real one.

Lmao. Wow. Some people are just sad.

RateSports
05-30-2013, 02:29 AM
Thats amazing to me since Durant westbrook and harden couldnt even do it.

Lol Durant, Westbrook and Harden were all under 24 when they lost. I wouldn't assume they would beat James, Wade and Bosh if they were in their primes (like LBJ currently is).


the heat have 3 franchise players. Everyone needs help to win but 3 guys who where franchise players all on the same team in their prime and to say thats earned smh

I highly doubt many would build a team around D Wade at this point... or Bosh. Isn't that what most teams do to "franchise" players?

People love to pretend that the Heat are some ridiculously overloaded team.


Some cite their record (66-16) which LBJ had in Cleveland (with high school ball players).
Some cite their all star appearances (even though Dwyane Wade is a shell of himself, no where near his prime and on hobbled knees).
Bosh had good years in Toronto but he is no world beater.
Honestly, the rest of their team is pretty average. Chalmers, Allen (at age 70), Battier, Haslem?




to say thats earned smh

They more than earned their title. They were under more scrutiny, hatred and criticism than any professional team in the history of sports. They won in spite of what people like you and people who love to hate thought. The whole LeBron hatred made me laugh personally. He clearly is a good, family man who donates a lot of money to charities and has ZERO off-court problems. No arrests, no negative press besides when he said "Take my talents to South Beach". If that makes someone a bad person, you need to go to a shrink or just overdose on something.


if melo can get passed them with 1 Legit all star Thats amazing to me

It wouldn't matter if Melo had 5 all stars on his team. He is not a team player. He eats the basketball..... and lots of donuts in the offseason ;)

amos1er
05-30-2013, 03:52 AM
The fact that 3 top ranked franchise players (still in their primes) all took paycuts to join forces is pretty weak IMO. If they are such great individual talents, then why game the system and not do it the old fashioned way like so many others before them. We have to hold this fact against Lebron, Wade, and Bosh when valuing the ring they won together.

jam
05-30-2013, 04:25 AM
Tough to say. Wade is a shell of his former self. Bosh has shown that he'll never be more than a complementary player. LeBron continues to improve but his rate of improvement can't match Wade's rate of decline, most likely.

Fortunately for the Heat, the EC is a weak conference. They don't have that much competition and should have a clear path to the NBA finals for years to come.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 04:54 AM
Tough to say. Wade is a shell of his former self. Bosh has shown that he'll never be more than a complementary player. LeBron continues to improve but his rate of improvement can't match Wade's rate of decline, most likely.

Fortunately for the Heat, the EC is a weak conference. They don't have that much competition and should have a clear path to the NBA finals for years to come.

You don't think that his lack of competition you speak of hurts Lebron's legacy at all. Isn't a warriors greatness measured by their opponents?

ATX
05-30-2013, 08:00 AM
A failure. 0 championships in three seasons, only title was in a shortened season and only counts as two thirds of a real one.

A failure? 2 Finals appearances, a title, and in the ECF so far this 3rd year is a failure? Interesting. ANd what if they win it this year, making it 3 finals appearances in 3 years with 2 rings? That is obviously not failure.


The fact that 3 top ranked franchise players (still in their primes) all took paycuts to join forces is pretty weak IMO. If they are such great individual talents, then why game the system and not do it the old fashioned way like so many others before them. We have to hold this fact against Lebron, Wade, and Bosh when valuing the ring they won together.

Same old sad sad sad song your singing...


Tough to say. Wade is a shell of his former self. Bosh has shown that he'll never be more than a complementary player. LeBron continues to improve but his rate of improvement can't match Wade's rate of decline, most likely.

Fortunately for the Heat, the EC is a weak conference. They don't have that much competition and should have a clear path to the NBA finals for years to come.

Clear path to the finals? I don't think that's very respectful to the Pacers, Bulls, and Knicks.


You guys can cry all you want about the Heat, but I hate to break it to you. All the tears in the world won't discredit the title they have won and any titles they may win in the future. I'll always count them, and so will any self respecting adult who see's the banners hanging from the rafters. But hey keep on crying, it makes you guys look like real bad *****!

The Flash
05-30-2013, 08:50 AM
So what's left to do here? 3 teams left, not too many Pacers or Spurs fans here...Our teams season was yet a waste again... Oh, here's an idea, let's all become trolls and hate on the Heat :). Good job trolls

The Flash
05-30-2013, 09:23 AM
The fact that 3 top ranked franchise players (still in their primes) all took paycuts to join forces is pretty weak IMO. If they are such great individual talents, then why game the system and not do it the old fashioned way like so many others before them. We have to hold this fact against Lebron, Wade, and Bosh when valuing the ring they won together.

Because often players are at the mercy of their Gms.Not all players are fortunate to find themselves in a perfect situation surrounded by talented and complimentary players. It's a team sport don't make it sound like its something else as stars need help if they want to win what's become the ultimate prize: a championship.Its like working for a company on a contract, and at the end of that contract another Fortune 500 company offers you a better job with better pay, better living conditions and better colleagues . Would you take it?

Badluck33
05-30-2013, 09:38 AM
My question is simple. Is it possible that if this Heat team win they could be atleast one of if not the most hated champions in league history? Sure they have supporters(Lebron followers mostly). But they also have a lot of detractors as well.

What successful team has been more disliked than the Heat???

they are a dirty team who can't figure out how to rebound.

mightybosstone
05-30-2013, 09:40 AM
This is an ignorant thread. All great teams are hated by other teams' fans. I loathed the Kobe/Shaq Lakers teams of the 2000s and I certainly was no fan of the Bulls in the 90s. Also, those Pistons teams were pretty much hated by everyone outside of Detroit in the 90s and I'm sure the entire league's fan base was split between the Lakers and Celtics in the 80s. The Heat will be no more hated than any other great team in league history.

ATX
05-30-2013, 09:40 AM
they are a dirty team who can't figure out how to rebound.

LMAO, now I've heard it all. "The Heat are a dirty team"...Coming from a Bulls fan, after what we've just witnessed in round 2. :laugh:

The Flash
05-30-2013, 09:42 AM
they are a dirty team who can't figure out how to rebound.

Stay humble

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 11:18 AM
Or he could've gone what Rose and Durant did and stay put.


Durant and Rose were still on their rookie contracts when Melo was traded, what are you trying to get at?

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 11:19 AM
This is an ignorant thread. All great teams are hated by other teams' fans. I loathed the Kobe/Shaq Lakers teams of the 2000s and I certainly was no fan of the Bulls in the 90s. Also, those Pistons teams were pretty much hated by everyone outside of Detroit in the 90s and I'm sure the entire league's fan base was split between the Lakers and Celtics in the 80s. The Heat will be no more hated than any other great team in league history.

The difference is that they are not a great team yet.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 11:36 AM
This is an ignorant thread. All great teams are hated by other teams' fans. I loathed the Kobe/Shaq Lakers teams of the 2000s and I certainly was no fan of the Bulls in the 90s. Also, those Pistons teams were pretty much hated by everyone outside of Detroit in the 90s and I'm sure the entire league's fan base was split between the Lakers and Celtics in the 80s. The Heat will be no more hated than any other great team in league history. I don't think it's an ignorant thread the OP's question is legit this is the 1st time in all of sports history (Hockey, Baseball, Football, soccer... etc etc) where a #1 player and a #2 in the league join forces with another max salary player and they all take paycuts to add even more talent to there team. There greatness is not why the bulk of people hate them there decisions to take the easiest way to a ring and call themselves champions... Aside from there gloating and cockiness to say they'll win 7 plus championships but the bulk of the hate came from the top 2 players in the game joining up taking paycuts to win some easy rings and again... Never been done ever!!! The hate that some have for this team goes beyond the others that you are mentioning in your examples and Lebron, Wade and Bosh are all pioneers for this sad precedent that they have set for the NBA.

This should be noted when discussing there legacies!

Heatcheck
05-30-2013, 11:45 AM
they are a dirty team who can't figure out how to rebound.

unlike the bulls right? or the pacers? stop being a follower

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 11:57 AM
I don't think it's an ignorant thread this is the 1st time in all of sports history (Hockey, Baseball, Football, soccer... etc etc) where a #1 player and a #2 in the league join forces with another max salary player and they all take paycuts to add even more talent to there team. There greatness is not why the bulk of people hate them there decisions to take the easiest way to a ring and call themselves champions... Aside from there gloating and cockiness to say they'll win 7 plus championships but the bulk of the hate came from the top 2 players in the game joining up taking paycuts to win some easy rings and again... Never been done ever!!! The hate that some have for this team goes beyond the others that you are mentioning in your examples and Lebron, Wade and Bosh are all pioneers for this sad precedent that they have set for the NBA.

This should be noted when discussing there legacies!

Sounds like something I would write. Well done sir. The reasons for hate towards Miami goes well beyond simply being the best team in the league.

To me its simple: The best player in the NBA wanted to make winning rings easy so he formed an all star team with his buddy who was 2nd/3rd best player in the NBA at the time along with another all star. After that they laughed at the rest of the league saying winning championships was going to be easy now. They told their Team USA buddies 'hey you guys better team up or else you got no shot at beating us!'. They set the precedent for superstar players to leave their squads unless they had superstar teammates. You saw it permeate throughout the league with Dwight, CP3, Melo and you see guys like Love doing the same. Miami set the bar and is now forcing other stars to search out their own superteam to have a shot to compete.

I know superstars have left their teams via FA throughout history, but has there EVER been the quantity of top notch superstars handcuffing their teams in such a short period that we see now and saw directly after 'The Decision'? I mean Dwight, CP3, Melo all within a year? Love doing the same now. Miami set the precedent that led to this. The days of superstars sticking with one team throughout their career is over unless they are lucky as hell like Durant. Everyone is going to search out their superteam, being a great team like Denver was and Clippers are isn't good enough anymore because the leap from 55 wins to Miami is huge. Playing on a 55 win team with another all star isn't good enough anymore. Playing in a small market that can't afford 3 max players isn't good enough anymore. Thats all because of the precedent Miami set.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 12:02 PM
Its not the first time superstars have left their teams in their prime, but IMO, its the first time we've seen it with this type of frequency, and the first time the FA decision revolves more around playing with another superstar over playing in a city you and your family want to move to. When Shaq left he wanted to make movies, he wasn't actively searching out a superteam like every superstar is now doing and will continue to do as long as the Miami dynasty is intact.

Heatcheck
05-30-2013, 12:07 PM
No one handcuffed anyone, they left when their contract was up. MELO handcuffed his team, DWIGHT handcuffed his team, Lebron took a team that was so bad that when he left they almost set the PRO SPORTS record for consecutive losses, to the ECF, and had done it 3 other times. No one talks about Bird and magic being drafted to allstar teams, or the fact the Bulls were actually able evaluate talent,
all that other intention **** you add is speculative and hilarious like when people say they "conspired in the back of limos", get over yourself.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 12:23 PM
No one handcuffed anyone, they left when their contract was up. MELO handcuffed his team, DWIGHT handcuffed his team, Lebron took a team that was so bad that when he left they almost set the PRO SPORTS record for consecutive losses, to the ECF, and had done it 3 other times. No one talks about Bird and magic being drafted to allstar teams, or the fact the Bulls were actually able evaluate talent,
all that other intention **** you add is speculative and hilarious like when people say they "conspired in the back of limos", get over yourself.

This is false Melo was straight forward with Denver he did not handcuff them at all he said these are my intentions for the future you can either keep me till my contract is up and enjoy the cap space or you can trade me now and aquire more talent for me but he was 100% honest about his future. D12 also said he wanted to leave he flip flopped a bit and even stayed longer because he did not want to be hated but he again was pretty straight forward with management and well Orlando will be relevant again because there rebuild will not be as bad since they got value for D12 and it's been enough time now to show that Denver is relevant again because of the assets they got back in the Melo deal all due to him being straight up with his franchise.

To say he handcuffed them is false they had options... They didn't have to trade him to NYK he just said after my contract is done that's where I'm signing. No cloak and dagger moves there.

When you look at Cav's and Raptors they were irrelivant since Miami aquired Bron and Bosh they got minimal assets back for these guys because they were not straight up and as a result the franchises suffered more than the others that you are mentioning above.

The Flash
05-30-2013, 12:28 PM
This is false Melo was straight forward with Denver he did not handcuff them at all he said these are my intentions for the future you can either keep me till my contract is up and enjoy the cap space or you can trade me now and aquire more talent for me but he was 100% honest about his future. D12 also said he wanted to leave he flip flopped a bit and even stayed longer because he did not want to be hated but he again was pretty straight forward with management and well Orlando will be relevant again because there rebuild will not be as bad since they got value for D12 and it's been enough time now to show that Denver is relevant again because of the assets they got back in the Melo deal all due to him being straight up with his franchise.

To say he handcuffed them is false they had options... They didn't have to trade him to NYK he just said after my contract is done that's where I'm signing. No cloak and dagger moves there.

When you look at Cav's and Raptors they were irrelivant since Miami aquired Bron and Bosh they got minimal assets back for these guys because they were not straight up and as a result the franchises suffered more than the others that you are mentioning above.
Melo forced his way to ny.Its really easy to forget when you're biased. We forgot about the Dwight debacle too,but you're still sour 3 years after James a free agent at the time took less money to sign with the Heat. But of course that's not something that Stoudamire , Melo and Deight would do.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 01:38 PM
Melo forced his way to ny.Its really easy to forget when you're biased. We forgot about the Dwight debacle too,but you're still sour 3 years after James a free agent at the time took less money to sign with the Heat. But of course that's not something that Stoudamire , Melo and Deight would do. Since you are claiming not to be biased and an expert on the situation how did he force himself to NYK??? Did he quit on his team and say I'm not playing anymore or did they ask him to sign an extention and he said no I'm signing with the Knicks when my contract is up. Beyond that he mentioned this to management in private originally so what exactly is your take on this?

Also is Denver still a playoff team? Did Denver make it just as far this year in the playoffs as they had with Melo when he was on the team. Denver did not suffer because of what he did they actually benifited from his honesty with the franchise but I think you are too biased to realize this. Also beyond that you never replied to my post a few pages back so please give me your take on the below quote.






To me that's not the problem it's more that he did something that I can't recall in all of sports history and that's a #1 and #2 player in the league taking paycuts not only to play together (with another top tier talent in Bosh) but to get some extra talent beyond themselves. The dancing around on stage and gloating about how many championships they would win just made things worse for themselves.





Get over it, the celebration was for the fans. It's always the same arguments and its always from the fans of the teams that had something to lose from that 2010 free agency. Recently it's laker fans who had it so well for so long they can't handle it now.




You focused on my side arguement opposed to the #1 and #2 players in the league which has never been done in sports history joining together and taking paycuts (with Bosh) so they can slap even more talent onto that team to try and get some easy championships.

It's something that is unheard of in sports not just basketball unless you have an example before them doing this. I think that's what the bitterness was more over with fans but there gloating did not help win people over either.

Just wondering what your response was to that?

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 01:56 PM
This is false Melo was straight forward with Denver he did not handcuff them at all he said these are my intentions for the future you can either keep me till my contract is up and enjoy the cap space or you can trade me now and aquire more talent for me but he was 100% honest about his future. D12 also said he wanted to leave he flip flopped a bit and even stayed longer because he did not want to be hated but he again was pretty straight forward with management and well Orlando will be relevant again because there rebuild will not be as bad since they got value for D12 and it's been enough time now to show that Denver is relevant again because of the assets they got back in the Melo deal all due to him being straight up with his franchise.

To say he handcuffed them is false they had options... They didn't have to trade him to NYK he just said after my contract is done that's where I'm signing. No cloak and dagger moves there.

When you look at Cav's and Raptors they were irrelivant since Miami aquired Bron and Bosh they got minimal assets back for these guys because they were not straight up and as a result the franchises suffered more than the others that you are mentioning above.

Whether he handcuffed his team or not, my original point was that all those handcuffs done were a direct result of the decision. Everyone went flocking to find a superteam, everyone wanted to leave their cheap owners who couldn't pay for a superteam, everyone wanted to a find a city they could entice and recruit stars to join to form a superteam. It became about everyone flocking to build a team capable of beating Miami. Miami set the precedent and were seeing the results. This stuff didn't happen nearly as much before, now its a regular occurrence for every impending star FA who isn't already on a superteam like Durant. Every single time a superstar is entering FA, theres gonna be Melodrama, CPdrama, Dwightmare all over again. Miami set the table for that. This was never a recurring theme in the NBA before 2010.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Whether he handcuffed his team or not, my original point was that all those handcuffs done were a direct result of the decision. Everyone went flocking to find a superteam, everyone wanted to leave their cheap owners who couldn't pay for a superteam, everyone wanted to a find a city they could entice and recruit stars to join to form a superteam. It became about everyone flocking to build a team capable of beating Miami. Miami set the precedent and were seeing the results. This stuff didn't happen nearly as much before, now its a regular occurrence for every impending star FA who isn't already on a superteam like Durant. Every single time a superstar is entering FA, theres gonna be Melodrama, CPdrama, Dwightmare all over again. Miami set the table for that. This was never a recurring theme in the NBA before 2010.

I agree with the heat big 3 were the pioneers of the superteams and everyone was trying to follow suit to compete with them but what I'm saying about the situation between Melo and Denver is that he did not handcuff his team he basically said when asked about an extention that he's not signing it and he's going to the Knicks at the end of the year... He did this as a heads up to his franchise to get value for him now while he's still there. When Brooklyn and other teams inquired they wanted a commitment from Carmelo that he was going to sign an extention and he said no he only wants to play for the knicks (was he supposed to lie to get Denver a better deal and leave Brooklyn afterwards?) and because of his honesty they got a damn good deal when they traded him away and they've been a playoff team since (It baffles me how he could have handled this better than he did). They did not get screwed over as bad as the other teams like the Cavs and Raps who have been bottom dwellers for a bit now. They are still not playoff teams (possibly next year for both) but basically I'm saying that Denver got way more assets back in the Melo deal and things worked out for them in the end (even if they were handcuffed).

To your point though all superstars wanted to form superteams after Miami got the top 2 players in the league to join with another all star and have them all take paycuts to grab even more talent and win some easy ships.

Heatcheck
05-30-2013, 02:13 PM
Whether he handcuffed his team or not, my original point was that all those handcuffs done were a direct result of the decision. Everyone went flocking to find a superteam, everyone wanted to leave their cheap owners who couldn't pay for a superteam, everyone wanted to a find a city they could entice and recruit stars to join to form a superteam. It became about everyone flocking to build a team capable of beating Miami. Miami set the precedent and were seeing the results. This stuff didn't happen nearly as much before, now its a regular occurrence for every impending star FA who isn't already on a superteam like Durant. Every single time a superstar is entering FA, theres gonna be Melodrama, CPdrama, Dwightmare all over again. Miami set the table for that. This was never a recurring theme in the NBA before 2010.

Because there was never a free agency class like that, youd have a shaq leave orlando, but that many "stars" never were available at once. and the key here wasnt cheap owners, it was poor front office moves....7 or 8 teams have won the title in like 30 years, not everyone knows how to build a team.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:14 PM
They will be remembered as the reason why gaming the system to form a super team ruined basketball and why they changed the new CBA to make sure it never happens again.

Proof is in the pudding, ratings are at an all time low because every rational fan knows just how unfairly stacked the Heat are compared to their competition.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:15 PM
I agree with the heat big 3 were the pioneers of the superteams and everyone was trying to follow suit to compete with them but what I'm saying about the situation between Melo and Denver is that he did not handcuff his team he basically said when asked about an extention that he's not signing it and he's going to the Knicks at the end of the year... He did this as a heads up to his franchise to get value for him now while he's still there when Brooklyn and other teams inquired they wanted a commitment from Carmelo that he was going to sign an extention and he said no he only wants to play for the knicks and because of his honesty they got a damn good deal when they traded him away and they've been a playoff team since. They did not get screwed over as bad as the other teams like the Cavs and Raps who have been bottom dwellers for a bit now. They are still not playoff teams (possibly next year for both) but basically I'm saying that Denver got way more assets back in the Melo deal and things worked out for them in the end (even if they were handcuffed).

To your point though all superstars wanted to form superteams after Miami got the top 2 players in the league to join with another all star and have them all take paycuts to grab even more talent and win some easy ships.

Great sig!!!

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:21 PM
They will be remembered as the reason why gaming the system to form a super team ruined basketball and why they changed the new CBA to make sure it never happens again.

Proof is in the pudding, ratings are at an all time low because every rational fan knows just how unfairly stacked the Heat are compared to their competition.

and the decision was a direct result of the boston celtics big three.. don't think we have ever seen that much talent on one team all joining at once, both wade and lebron struggled and lost to them in the playoffs, just look at how miami celebrated when they beat them in round 2 the following year it was like they won a championship.. i know what you're going to say, the celtics big three weren't in their prime blah blah blah, they were still superstars(if bosh is considered a superstar so are they) also they were built better superstar pf, scorer, and greatest shooter of all time *ghettosean voice*, when they were joining they had in their mind to win easier..

celtics started it, no celtics big three, wade/lebron don't join forces.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:21 PM
A warriors greatness is determined by his opponents. Lebron joined his rivals and eliminated the competition. How lame is that? A great athlete should thirst for challenge...not eliminate it all together.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 02:24 PM
Great sig!!!

Thanks it's pretty much my exact thoughts on Bron. Greatest player in the world right now but when it comes to competition... Well the sig says it all ;)

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:24 PM
I agree with the heat big 3 were the pioneers of the superteams

FALSE no celtics big three, miami big three would never exist. kobe would probably have 6 champinoships, lebron atleast one in cleveland and probably would have never lelft cleveland.. wade would probably went to chicago. why do think miami was so emotional when they beat them in 2011??

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 02:26 PM
and the decision was a direct result of the boston celtics big three.. don't think we have ever seen that much talent on one team all joining at once, both wade and lebron struggled and lost to them in the playoffs, just look at how miami celebrated when they beat them in round 2 the following year it was like they won a championship.. i know what you're going to say, the celtics big three weren't in their prime blah blah blah, they were still superstars(if bosh is considered a superstar so are they) also they were built better superstar pf, scorer, and greatest shooter of all time *ghettosean voice*, when they were joining they had in their mind to win easier..

celtics started it, no celtics big three, wade/lebron don't join forces.

Your measure of talent is pretty weak since you consider Jordan having more help than Lebron :facepalm:

So I can't really take you that seriously.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:27 PM
and the decision was a direct result of the boston celtics big three.. don't think we have ever seen that much talent on one team all joining at once, both wade and lebron struggled and lost to them in the playoffs, just look at how miami celebrated when they beat them in round 2 the following year it was like they won a championship.. i know what you're going to say, the celtics big three weren't in their prime blah blah blah, they were still superstars(if bosh is considered a superstar so are they) also they were built better superstar pf, scorer, and greatest shooter of all time *ghettosean voice*, when they were joining they had in their mind to win easier..

celtics started it, no celtics big three, wade/lebron don't join forces.

I'm sure if Lebron waited and did everything in his power to try to win a ring the old fashioned way first before joining forces it wouldn't be so cowardly and unfair. The Celtics were in the twilight of their careers when they joined forces. They actually gave a good faith effort before they decided to give up trying to be the alpha male to do it as a collective unit. Lebron was scared he wouldn't live up to the hype so he panicked and overcompensated way too much. Now it's the true fans of the sport who are suffering while only a few select fanboys are actually enjoying this abomination.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:28 PM
Your measure of talent is pretty weak since you consider Jordan having more help than Lebron :facepalm:

So I can't really take you that seriously.

:laugh: I can't believe he actually said that. These Lebronites will say anything. :laugh:

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 02:29 PM
FALSE no celtics big three, miami big three would never exist. kobe would probably have 6 champinoships, lebron atleast one in cleveland and probably would have never lelft cleveland.. wade would probably went to chicago. why do think miami was so emotional when they beat them in 2011??

Celtics were past there primes they were all in there 30's not there 20's like the heat and Wade and Bron where the best 2 players in the league at the time of them joining together. Your arguement is weak and does not compare to the 2 best players in the league joining together with Bosh and taking paycuts to gather even more talent sorry but I don't remember those events happening with the Celtics.

Weak!

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:31 PM
Thanks it's pretty much my exact thoughts on Bron. Greatest player in the world right now but when it comes to competition... Well the sig says it all ;)

Yup, I don't think these Lebonner lickers don't seem to realize just how much Lebron joining up with his rivals affects his legacy. They try to act like it won't weigh on anything and that he doesn't have one of the biggest advantages in this history of the sport in terms of both help and lack of competition. This should and will affect his legacy for sure.

D-Leethal
05-30-2013, 02:31 PM
and the decision was a direct result of the boston celtics big three.. don't think we have ever seen that much talent on one team all joining at once, both wade and lebron struggled and lost to them in the playoffs, just look at how miami celebrated when they beat them in round 2 the following year it was like they won a championship.. i know what you're going to say, the celtics big three weren't in their prime blah blah blah, they were still superstars(if bosh is considered a superstar so are they) also they were built better superstar pf, scorer, and greatest shooter of all time *ghettosean voice*, when they were joining they had in their mind to win easier..

celtics started it, no celtics big three, wade/lebron don't join forces.

Celtics were all over 30 and none of them were considered a top 10 player. They proved you could win a chip with three guys hovering around the top 15-20 range. LeBron felt he needed to emulate that big 3 except with the two best players in basketball and another all star. He took what the Celtics proved you could win with, and multiplied it by 10 to ensure he would do the same.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:32 PM
Your measure of talent is pretty weak since you consider Jordan having more help than Lebron :facepalm:

So I can't really take you that seriously.

you're still butt hurt that i refuse to polish jordans throne, to be perfectly honest i think jordan is a tad overrated, i hate kobe but he does some of jordans better than him, only difference is jordans athleticism is much greater,hand size, and the refs love him much more.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:32 PM
Celtics were past there primes they were all in there 30's not there 20's like the heat and Wade and Bron where the best 2 players in the league at the time of them joining together. Your arguement is weak and does not compare to the 2 best players in the league joining together with Bosh and taking paycuts to gather even more talent sorry but I don't remember those events happening with the Celtics.

Weak!

Yup, I forgot about taking paycuts. Good point. No superstar has ever had to do that before.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:33 PM
Celtics were all over 30 and none of them were considered a top 10 player. They proved you could win a chip with three guys hovering around the top 15-20 range. LeBron felt he needed to emulate that big 3 except with the two best players in basketball and another all star. He took what the Celtics proved you could win with, and multiplied it by 10 to ensure he would do the same.

100% accurate.

d00d
05-30-2013, 02:35 PM
the best thing we can all look forward to is the jersey burning that IS coming to Miami when the whore runs to the next superstar

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:36 PM
you're still butt hurt that i refuse to polish jordans throne, to be perfectly honest i think jordan is a tad overrated, i hate kobe but he does some of jordans better than him, only difference is jordans athleticism is much greater,hand size, and the refs love him much more.

And Lebron isn't :laugh:

There are a good amount of posters on this site and a few fan boy analysts such as Chris Broussard who are ready to crown Lebron as the GOAT. LMAO.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:37 PM
Celtics were all over 30 and none of them were considered a top 10 player. They proved you could win a chip with three guys hovering around the top 15-20 range. LeBron felt he needed to emulate that big 3 except with the two best players in basketball and another all star. He took what the Celtics proved you could win with, and multiplied it by 10 to ensure he would do the same.

of course they were considered top ten, pierce was arguably best at his position and so was garnet who finished top 5 in mvp votes. . idk why age matters, are you saying they didn't stack their team????

Tony_Starks
05-30-2013, 02:37 PM
Celtics "big 3" was a result of trades of past prime players. The only "collusion" that took place was between Danny and Kevin McHale.

I really don't care about what Miami did (even though it was kindof lame) but Im just saying it's not the same as the Celtics.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:37 PM
the best thing we can all look forward to is the jersey burning that IS coming to Miami when the whore runs to the next superstar

Most likely back to Cleveland now that Stern rigged the draft twice for them to entice Lebron to come back. No loyalty what so ever. That guy will go wherever he can chase rings. :pity:

nycericanguy
05-30-2013, 02:38 PM
HEAT are SUPPOSED to win, no one's going to marvel and give a ton of props to 3 superstars that decided to team up and get on stage jumping up and down celebrating and talking about how easily they will win 7 titles before even playing a single game.

They took the easiest route possible to win... I mean they haven't had titles handed to them, they still have to play the games and stay relatively healthy, but teaming up the best 2 players in the game along with arguably the best PF... come on, hard to really respect that. it's almost unfair what they did.

nycericanguy
05-30-2013, 02:38 PM
double

d00d
05-30-2013, 02:39 PM
I only hope that when this team disbands, they lower the 3 ****s on that same platform they introduced them with to jeers and fruits and vegetables pelted at them

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:39 PM
Celtics "big 3" was a result of trades of past prime players. The only "collusion" that took place was between Danny and Kevin McHale.

Exactly! This current Heat squads formation is truly an abomination. Don't know why the Lebronites on this site can't admit that? Maybe their Lebonners are clouding their judgement.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:40 PM
HEAT are SUPPOSED to win, no one's going to marvel and give a ton of props to 3 superstars that decided to team up and get on stage jumping up and down celebrating and talking about how easily they will win 7 titles before even playing a single game.

They took the easiest route possible to win... I mean they haven't had titles handed to them, they still have to play the games and stay relatively healthy, but teaming up the best 2 players in the game along with arguably the best PF... come on, hard to really respect that. it's almost unfair what they did.

:clap:

Preach!!!

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:40 PM
And Lebron isn't :laugh:

There are a good amount of posters on this site and a few fan boy analysts such as Chris Broussard who are ready to crown Lebron as the GOAT. LMAO.

lebron is over hyped, also no one says lebron is g.o.a.t, atleast not the majority of people.. i mean if it bothers you though there must be some truth to it?? personally if someone said melo was goat i wouldn't even take them seriously or waste my time debating it or discrediting about melo, but it seems that someone saying lebron is goat annoys you and even angers you, so there must be some truth/possibility? how many people were calling kobe goat before he even won finals mvp?

ManRam
05-30-2013, 02:41 PM
HEAT are SUPPOSED to win,

sounds like most of/all of jordan's, russell's, wilt's, kareem's championship teams.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:41 PM
HEAT are SUPPOSED to win, no one's going to marvel and give a ton of props to 3 superstars that decided to team up and get on stage jumping up and down celebrating and talking about how easily they will win 7 titles before even playing a single game.

They took the easiest route possible to win... I mean they haven't had titles handed to them, they still have to play the games and stay relatively healthy, but teaming up the best 2 players in the game along with arguably the best PF... come on, hard to really respect that. it's almost unfair what they did.

Almost unfair???

Lol. More like blatantly and undeniably unfair.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:42 PM
Celtics "big 3" was a result of trades of past prime players. The only "collusion" that took place was between Danny and Kevin McHale.

I really don't care about what Miami did (even though it was kindof lame) but Im just saying it's not the same as the Celtics.

if they were past their primes completely than wade must have been past his prime one year in the big 3 experiment.

nycericanguy
05-30-2013, 02:42 PM
sounds like most of/all of jordan's, russell's, wilt's, kareem's championship teams.

I think we all know those are completely different scenarios.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:43 PM
HEAT are SUPPOSED to win, no one's going to marvel and give a ton of props to 3 superstars that decided to team up and get on stage jumping up and down celebrating and talking about how easily they will win 7 titles before even playing a single game.

They took the easiest route possible to win... I mean they haven't had titles handed to them, they still have to play the games and stay relatively healthy, but teaming up the best 2 players in the game along with arguably the best PF... come on, hard to really respect that. it's almost unfair what they did.

they're suppose to win, but they were considered underdogs in the 2011 finals?

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:44 PM
sounds like most of/all of jordan's, russell's, wilt's, kareem's championship teams.

Russell I agree with and feel he is just as overrated if not a bit more that Lebron. Kareem was well past his prime when he was on those Laker teams. As for the Jordan comparision... :laugh:

Jordan didn't collude with his rivals to take less money and form the "New World Order/Justice League in Miami. Jordan is a real man and a true competitor...Lebron is a coward who took the easy way out and is scared of competition rather than thirsts for it.

d00d
05-30-2013, 02:45 PM
If Jordan had joined with Magic and Bird, noone would give a **** about Jordans ships. When it is all said and done, noone will give a **** about Lebron's one or two ships.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:45 PM
they're suppose to win, but they were considered underdogs in the 2011 finals?

Are you serious??? You really think they were considered underdogs in the 2011 finals??? WOW!!!

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:46 PM
Your measure of talent is pretty weak since you consider Jordan having more help than Lebron :facepalm:

So I can't really take you that seriously.

i really don't understand why you have to take personal shots, can you not quote me anymore if you're going to be so butt hurt?? honestly im surprised you didn't lace your comment with those sarcastic eye roles(though you did get the facepalm in there), i hope you know that you can easily ignore me if you don't like what i say about that alcoholic gambler.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:47 PM
Are you serious??? You really think they were considered underdogs in the 2011 finals??? WOW!!!

woops meant 2012 finals.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:47 PM
lebron is over hyped, also no one says lebron is g.o.a.t, atleast not the majority of people.. i mean if it bothers you though there must be some truth to it?? personally if someone said melo was goat i wouldn't even take them seriously or waste my time debating it or discrediting about melo, but it seems that someone saying lebron is goat annoys you and even angers you, so there must be some truth/possibility? how many people were calling kobe goat before he even won finals mvp?

At least you can admit Lebron is over hyped. It only bothers me because its not just a few fan boys who overrate him, it's beyond that now and it is all over the media. The overhype of Lebron James is a freakin epidemic.

nycericanguy
05-30-2013, 02:49 PM
woops meant 2012 finals.

I believe that's the only series in 3 years that MIA has not been favored in, that's saying something in itself.

And in that series it was virtually a tie on odds...

amos1er
05-30-2013, 02:49 PM
woops meant 2012 finals.

Really. Do I need to pull the odds on those too? How can a team with two top five players and a top 15 player possibly be an underdog in any situation? Especially to a green Thunder team who never sniffed a stage that big before in their barely out of adolescent lives.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:49 PM
If Jordan had joined with Magic and Bird, noone would give a **** about Jordans ships. When it is all said and done, noone will give a **** about Lebron's one or two ships.

so which one is bosh? bird or magic?

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:51 PM
Really. Do I need to pull the odds on those too? How can a team with two top five players and a top 15 player possibly be an underdog in any situation? Especially to a green Thunder team who never sniffed a stage that big before in their barely out of adolescent lives.

show me the vegas odds for the 2012 finals, don't embarrass yourself now:)

heres what most of the experts on espn that you love chose to win the 2012 finals.
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/matchup/_/teams/thunder-heat

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:53 PM
I believe that's the only series in 3 years that MIA has not been favored in, that's saying something in itself.

And in that series it was virtually a tie on odds...

most people were saying, who ever comes out west will win the championships easily.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-30-2013, 02:54 PM
HEAT are SUPPOSED to win, no one's going to marvel and give a ton of props to 3 superstars that decided to team up and get on stage jumping up and down celebrating and talking about how easily they will win 7 titles before even playing a single game.

They took the easiest route possible to win... I mean they haven't had titles handed to them, they still have to play the games and stay relatively healthy, but teaming up the best 2 players in the game along with arguably the best PF... come on, hard to really respect that. it's almost unfair what they did.

Yup, they ruined the integrity of the game.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-30-2013, 02:55 PM
Russell I agree with and feel he is just as overrated if not a bit more that Lebron. Kareem was well past his prime when he was on those Laker teams. As for the Jordan comparision... :laugh:

Jordan didn't collude with his rivals to take less money and form the "New World Order/Justice League in Miami. Jordan is a real man and a true competitor...Lebron is a coward who took the easy way out and is scared of competition rather than thirsts for it.

What this man said^

bucketss
05-30-2013, 02:56 PM
Yup, they ruined the integrity of the game.

we're trying to have a discussion, please don't ruin this thread with your cosigning and spam. please you pretty much ruin every thread you come into.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 02:56 PM
i really don't understand why you have to take personal shots, can you not quote me anymore if you're going to be so butt hurt?? honestly im surprised you didn't lace your comment with those sarcastic eye roles(though you did get the facepalm in there), i hope you know that you can easily ignore me if you don't like what i say about that alcoholic gambler.

You mad bro?

mngopher35
05-30-2013, 02:57 PM
sounds like most of/all of jordan's, russell's, wilt's, kareem's championship teams.

Yup, look at the people posting though.


Are you serious??? You really think they were considered underdogs in the 2011 finals??? WOW!!!

He probably meant 2012.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 03:00 PM
i really don't understand why you have to take personal shots, can you not quote me anymore if you're going to be so butt hurt?? honestly im surprised you didn't lace your comment with those sarcastic eye roles(though you did get the facepalm in there), i hope you know that you can easily ignore me if you don't like what i say about that alcoholic gambler.

Oh and for the record you came in firing personal shots not me...


and the decision was a direct result of the boston celtics big three.. don't think we have ever seen that much talent on one team all joining at once, both wade and lebron struggled and lost to them in the playoffs, just look at how miami celebrated when they beat them in round 2 the following year it was like they won a championship.. i know what you're going to say, the celtics big three weren't in their prime blah blah blah, they were still superstars(if bosh is considered a superstar so are they) also they were built better superstar pf, scorer, and greatest shooter of all time *ghettosean voice*, when they were joining they had in their mind to win easier..

celtics started it, no celtics big three, wade/lebron don't join forces.



I just... Well.... YOU MAD :D

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:00 PM
You mad bro?

are you done?

mngopher35
05-30-2013, 03:01 PM
Really. Do I need to pull the odds on those too? How can a team with two top five players and a top 15 player possibly be an underdog in any situation? Especially to a green Thunder team who never sniffed a stage that big before in their barely out of adolescent lives.

http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=277492

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19332621/nba-finals-thunder-favored-by-vegas-oddsmakers

You mean these odds that favored the thunder? I get that you love to say Lebron has never faced any competition, but it really isn't true. Durant, Westbrook, Harden are all top 10 players this year (not last, but everyone could tell they had talent) and had Ibaka plus role players as well. Many thought the thunder would win that series.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 03:02 PM
so which one is bosh? bird or magic?

Jordan (The GOAT) is the one who said it and he was making an analogy, not a direct comparison. Bosh is about as productive...if not more...than an old Bird minus the passing ability. Plus he looks like a bird. So I guess Jordan's analogy might hold true if he specified and said 90-92 Bird and Magic. Still would be extremely unfair to the rest of the league and the sport of basketball. They formed the dream team to win the gold in 1992...I think that was enough, they didn't need to try to chase rings as well.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:04 PM
http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=277492

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19332621/nba-finals-thunder-favored-by-vegas-oddsmakers

You mean these odds that favored the thunder? I get that you love to say Lebron has never faced any competition, but it really isn't true. Durant, Westbrook, Harden are all top 10 players this year (not last, but everyone could tell they had talent) and had Ibaka plus role players as well. Many thought the thunder would win that series.

me personally after game 1 when durant just completely outclassed lebron, i thought it was done.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 03:05 PM
http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=277492

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19332621/nba-finals-thunder-favored-by-vegas-oddsmakers

You mean these odds that favored the thunder? I get that you love to say Lebron has never faced any competition, but it really isn't true. Durant, Westbrook, Harden are all top 10 players this year (not last, but everyone could tell they had talent) and had Ibaka plus role players as well. Many thought the thunder would win that series.

They were probably factoring in Lebron's choke job from the prior year when they made those projections. The Thunder were practically even in the odds column according to vegas odds. Thunder were barely getting over acne..they were greener than the Jokers hair...not exactly slaying the dragon IMO. Especially with that super stacked team.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 03:09 PM
me personally after game 1 when durant just completely outclassed lebron, i thought it was done.

Thunder were talented and on a roll. But they were sooo young and inexperienced. Plus factor in Hardens disappearing act and they never really stood a chance.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:09 PM
They were probably factoring in Lebron's choke job from the prior year when they made those projections. The Thunder were practically even in the odds column according to vegas odds. Thunder were barely getting over acne..they were greener than the Jokers hair...not exactly slaying the dragon IMO. Especially with that super stacked team.

no they weren't why would they?? they did factor in how much they struggled with celtics/pacers, and the fact that wade looked like crap, and bosh was just coming back from injury. couple that with the dominate performances of the thunder against the spurs where they backdoor swept them, keep in mind spurs were on a big winning streak sweeping the first two series.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-30-2013, 03:10 PM
we're trying to have a discussion, please don't ruin this thread with your cosigning and spam. please you pretty much ruin every thread you come into.

Buckets, no one has discussions with you. All you get is *** whopping's in debates.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:11 PM
Thunder were talented and on a roll. But they were sooo young and inexperienced. Plus factor in Hardens disappearing act and they never really stood a chance.

how come you don't factor in youth and inexperience when you talk about lebrons 2007 finals?,

mngopher35
05-30-2013, 03:11 PM
They were probably factoring in Lebron's choke job from the prior year when they made those projections. The Thunder were practically even in the odds column according to vegas odds. Thunder were barely getting over acne..they were greener than the Jokers hair...not exactly slaying the dragon IMO. Especially with that super stacked team.

I am just showing they had the odds, and pointing out how good they were. Sure, you can say it is because they expected a james choke job, or you can notice they (vegas odds makers) had his over/under at 29.5 ppg. I get that you won't want to admit that the thunder team was very good.

I find it funny that those Celtics teams were past their prime and not a good reason to try and make a better team. Yet they somehow were such great competition for the lakers in 2010, and the thunder were not in 2012...

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 03:11 PM
and the decision was a direct result of the boston celtics big three.. don't think we have ever seen that much talent on one team all joining at once, both wade and lebron struggled and lost to them in the playoffs, just look at how miami celebrated when they beat them in round 2 the following year it was like they won a championship.. i know what you're going to say, the celtics big three weren't in their prime blah blah blah, they were still superstars(if bosh is considered a superstar so are they) also they were built better superstar pf, scorer, and greatest shooter of all time *ghettosean voice*, when they were joining they had in their mind to win easier..

celtics started it, no celtics big three, wade/lebron don't join forces.

Because all 3 of them had been in the league for 10 years and had never even been to a Finals. Wade and Lebron had been there individually before joining up with Bosh all before any of them had even sniffed their 30th birthday.

d00d
05-30-2013, 03:14 PM
lets just hope the Heat repeat what the Celtics did. One and done

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 03:22 PM
Because all 3 of them had been in the league for 10 years and had never even been to a Finals. Wade and Lebron had been there individually before joining up with Bosh all before any of them had even sniffed their 30th birthday.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

The only thing you left out is that Wade already won a championship and was the finals MVP but I forgive you ;)

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:25 PM
Because all 3 of them had been in the league for 10 years and had never even been to a Finals. Wade and Lebron had been there individually before joining up with Bosh all before any of them had even sniffed their 30th birthday.

my point is the celtics are pioneers for the whole superteam teaming up thing, ever since than every team is trying to one up them, lakers added gasol(weak try at it), and things started escalated and the 2010 free agency created a big opportunity for miami to stack up against the celtics.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 03:33 PM
if they were past their primes completely than wade must have been past his prime one year in the big 3 experiment.

Wade was the 2nd best player in the league behind Lebron when they joined forces so what are you trying to say here?

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 03:36 PM
my point is the celtics are pioneers for the whole superteam teaming up thing, ever since than every team is trying to one up them, lakers added gasol(weak try at it), and things started escalated and the 2010 free agency created a big opportunity for miami to stack up against the celtics.

**cough** **cough**


Celtics were past there primes they were all in there 30's not there 20's like the heat and Wade and Bron where the best 2 players in the league at the time of them joining together. Your arguement is weak and does not compare to the 2 best players in the league joining together with Bosh and taking paycuts to gather even more talent sorry but I don't remember those events happening with the Celtics.

Weak!

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:39 PM
**cough** **cough**

can you stop trolling?

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:40 PM
Wade was the 2nd best player in the league behind Lebron when they joined forces so what are you trying to say here?

if they were past their prime, than so was wade in year 2, year one was a wasted year anyways.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:41 PM
i don't understand how a team has two players in the top ten,(one of them arguably top 5) and still be considered past their prime.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 03:46 PM
my point is the celtics are pioneers for the whole superteam teaming up thing, ever since than every team is trying to one up them, lakers added gasol(weak try at it), and things started escalated and the 2010 free agency created a big opportunity for miami to stack up against the celtics.

Those situations aren't the same as the Heat though.

The Lakers had Shaq 3 years before they traded for Gasol in the same season that the Celtics 3 was assembled, so that wasn't really anything new; pairing Kobe with a top-shelf big man. Even then, that's still only 2 players, only one of which had to be acquired by the team.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:50 PM
Those situations aren't the same as the Heat though.

The Lakers had Shaq 3 years before they traded for Gasol in the same season that the Celtics 3 was assembled, so that wasn't really anything new; pairing Kobe with a top-shelf big man. Even then, that's still only 2 players, only one of which had to be acquired by the team.

miami took it up a notch, still the same.. and was inspired by the celtics. and that team was set up by west conf. teams that didn't care what happened in the east.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 03:53 PM
miami took it up a notch, still the same.. and was inspired by the celtics. and that team was set up by west conf. teams that didn't care what happened in the east.

Not the same. But you clearly won't come around.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 03:55 PM
miami took it up a notch, still the same.. and was inspired by the celtics. and that team was set up by west conf. teams that didn't care what happened in the east.

How is that the same teams trading for there stars compared to the top 2 players in the league taking paycuts to come together with Bosh so they can slap on extra talent in there.

The situations are not the same at all!

bucketss
05-30-2013, 03:57 PM
Not the same. But you clearly won't come around.

neither would you, they both stacked in order to make things easier, created an imbalance in the east where it was them than everyone else

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-30-2013, 03:58 PM
Buckets getting trained in here.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 03:59 PM
Not the same. But you clearly won't come around.

Dude I post the below quote and instead of responding to it he calls it trolling because he cannot debate this point so just don't bother he has his head up Lebrons ***hole and cannot be reasoned with.


Celtics were past there primes they were all in there 30's not there 20's like the heat and Wade and Bron where the best 2 players in the league at the time of them joining together. Your arguement is weak and does not compare to the 2 best players in the league joining together with Bosh and taking paycuts to gather even more talent sorry but I don't remember those events happening with the Celtics.

Weak!

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:01 PM
How is that the same teams trading for there stars compared to the top 2 players in the league taking paycuts to come together with Bosh so they can slap on extra talent in there.

The situations are not the same at all!

it really doesn't matter if it was a trade or not, they dictated where they were going to end up, now if garnet/allen had no choice in where they would be traded i would agree, but they did, garnett i believe had a no trade clause so it was pretty much like he was a free agent.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:02 PM
Dude I post the below quote and instead of responding to it he calls it trolling because he cannot debate this point so just don't bother he has his head up Lebrons ***hole and cannot be reasoned with.

more personal shots. good day sir.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:04 PM
also i don't understand why you are so mad about my opinion? you're clearly in love with discrediting lebron and have some agenda here smh.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:06 PM
Dude I post the below quote and instead of responding to it he calls it trolling because he cannot debate this point so just don't bother he has his head up Lebrons ***hole and cannot be reasoned with.

btw i already attacked those points, i don't like repeating myself but i think you already know my stance on those.

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 04:10 PM
it really doesn't matter if it was a trade or not, they dictated where they were going to end up, now if garnet/allen had no choice in where they would be traded i would agree, but they did, garnett i believe had a no trade clause so it was pretty much like he was a free agent.

Paycuts? Extra talent? any response to that???

Players can choose where they want to go and I don't think anyone had a problem with that but since there was supposed to be no cap room to sign 3 superstars like Lebron, Wade and Bosh which is why there was a whole uproar everywhere when this team was formed because it should not have happened but they decided to join together and take paycuts to get more talent to join with them.

This was not done with the celtics they did what they could with what they had and won and they were all in there 30's not in there 20's this is why there was 0% outrage when the celtics joined together more like ooo's and ahhhhh's and everyone wondering if they were going to win it all. If they bent the rules and took paycuts in there 20's to get extra talent to win some easy ships there would be close to much outrage (only close because they were not the 2 best players in the league joining together). The situations still are not the same to me... Teams have had 3 all stars before on there squad but never in sports history have 2 top players in the league joined together and on top of that took paycuts with another franchise player to form a superteam in this way.

Sorry the situations still do not compare to me... Like I said this is a pioneer move that has never been done in sports history unless you want to correct me

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-30-2013, 04:18 PM
Paycuts? Extra talent? any response to that???

Players can choose where they want to go and I don't think anyone had a problem with that but since there was supposed to be no cap room to sign 3 superstars like Lebron, Wade and Bosh which is why there was a whole uproar everywhere when this team was formed because it should not have happened but they decided to join together and take paycuts to get more talent to join with them.

This was not done with the celtics they did what they could with what they had and won and they were all in there 30's not in there 20's this is why there was 0% outrage when the celtics joined together more like ooo's and ahhhhh's and everyone wondering if they were going to win it all. If they bent the rules and took paycuts in there 20's to get extra talent to win some easy chips there would be close to much outrage (only close because they were not the 2 best players in the league joining together). The situations still are not the same to me... Teams have had 3 all stars before on there squad but never in sports history have 2 top players in the league joined together and on top of that took paycuts with another franchise player to form a superteam in this way.

Sorry the situations still do not compare to me... Like I said this is a pioneer move that has never been done in sports history unless you want to correct me

What a post. :clap:

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:20 PM
Paycuts? Extra talent? any response to that???

Players can choose where they want to go and I don't think anyone had a problem with that but since there was supposed to be no cap room to sign 3 superstars like Lebron, Wade and Bosh which is why there was a whole uproar everywhere when this team was formed because it should not have happened but they decided to join together and take paycuts to get more talent to join with them.

that is not true, miami had room for three max contracts, wade took a paycut for his good friend haslem, miami had the bird rights to wade so they could go over the cap to sign him, the extra money wasn't much they signed miller and the rest of the team was filled with scrubs for the minimum. so no, they were able to sign them all for the max without the paycuts.



This was not done with the celtics they did what they could with what they had and won and they were all in there 30's not in there 20's this is why there was 0% outrage when the celtics joined together more like ooo's and ahhhhh's and everyone wondering if they were going to win it all. If they bent the rules and took paycuts in there 20's to get extra talent to win some easy chips there would be close to much outrage (only close because they were not the 2 best players in the league joining together). The situations still are not the same to me... Teams have had 3 all stars before on there squad but never in sports history have 2 top players in the league joined together and on top of that took paycuts with another franchise player to form a superteam in this way.

Sorry the situations still do not compare to me

there were outrage, and celtics were really hated. i still don't see why it matters if they were 30+??? they were still top ten players, and at that time it was considered very shocking.

jam
05-30-2013, 04:24 PM
LOL, I don't care if it's "respectful" or not. It's the truth. Drose is a one man show. The pacers have one of the top 3 or 4 head coaches in the league, but their offense has been very inconsistent. Don't even get me started on the knicks. :)

The pacers have the best possibility of upending the heat over the next 3+ seasons, esp. if granger, george and hibbert can play well together. They even have a chance right now and it's not a remote chance.

But on paper, the bulls and knicks aren't a great match for the heat. The pacers, despite their less than stellar regular season record, and despite hibbert's poor start this season, are best poised to challenge the heat, because of their youth, their defense, their size, and offensive potential.

Let's see how quickly they grow up in this series. I'm rootin' for 'em! :)



A failure? 2 Finals appearances, a title, and in the ECF so far this 3rd year is a failure? Interesting. ANd what if they win it this year, making it 3 finals appearances in 3 years with 2 rings? That is obviously not failure.



Same old sad sad sad song your singing...



Clear path to the finals? I don't think that's very respectful to the Pacers, Bulls, and Knicks.


You guys can cry all you want about the Heat, but I hate to break it to you. All the tears in the world won't discredit the title they have won and any titles they may win in the future. I'll always count them, and so will any self respecting adult who see's the banners hanging from the rafters. But hey keep on crying, it makes you guys look like real bad *****!

ghettosean
05-30-2013, 04:43 PM
that is not true, miami had room for three max contracts, wade took a paycut for his good friend haslem, miami had the bird rights to wade so they could go over the cap to sign him, the extra money wasn't much they signed miller and the rest of the team was filled with scrubs for the minimum. so no, they were able to sign them all for the max without the paycuts.

So basically you admit that they all took paycuts to get extra talent that they should not have been able to sign otherwise... EXACTLY!!!



there were outrage, and celtics were really hated. i still don't see why it matters if they were 30+??? they were still top ten players, and at that time it was considered very shocking.



No they weren't top 10 players in the league sorry... They were all stars though in there 30's I'll give you that much. As for the hatred you speak of towards the Celtics it never existed and if it did and I'm wrong I don't remember it making world wide news sorry dude but this is a bunch of fluff.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:47 PM
So basically you admit that they all took paycuts to get extra talent that they should not have been able to sign otherwise... EXACTLY!!!




No they weren't sorry...

They were all stars though in there 30's I'll give you that much.

pierce and garnett were top ten players, garnett finshed top 5 in mvp voting that same year, also the paycuts weren't necessary, out side of the big three, that team was full of scrubs and thats including milller.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 04:47 PM
it really doesn't matter if it was a trade or not, they dictated where they were going to end up, now if garnet/allen had no choice in where they would be traded i would agree, but they did, garnett i believe had a no trade clause so it was pretty much like he was a free agent.

This couldn't be less true.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 04:56 PM
This couldn't be less true.

what?? garnett even refused to go to the celtics at first, it wasn't untill they got allen that garnet agreed to go there, he was completely in control.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 04:59 PM
pierce and garnett were top ten players, garnett finshed top 5 in mvp voting that same year, also the paycuts weren't necessary, out side of the big three, that team was full of scrubs and thats including milller.

The year they all got together, yeah, KG got some MVP votes because his acquisition was the most impactful for the Celtics as a team. But the year before that Pierce wasn't even on the All-Star team in the weak East and KG was a third-team all-NBA selection, and definitely not top 10 player.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 05:01 PM
what?? garnett even refused to go to the celtics at first, it wasn't untill they got allen that garnet agreed to go there, he was completely in control.

To an extent because he had a no trade clause. But he had rejected plenty of moves in the past as well and he was still under team control. If the T'Wolves didn't like what they were getting in return then they didn't have to make the deal, simple as that.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 05:14 PM
The year they all got together, yeah, KG got some MVP votes because his acquisition was the most impactful for the Celtics as a team. But the year before that Pierce wasn't even on the All-Star team in the weak East and KG was a third-team all-NBA selection, and definitely not top 10 player.

that was only because he was injured, everyone knew what he was capable of, he was an elite scorer. and garnett beasted in 2007, his team sucked but he went 22 and 12, so i can see why the coaches rewarded the winning teams, but you're not going to find a list any where they kept garnet out of the top ten.

OrangeCrush
05-30-2013, 05:16 PM
They won't be remembered like the great Laker or Celtics teams. They won't win as many rings imo.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 05:26 PM
Got to give Bucketts props. He is single-handedly attempting to defend Lebron against everyone in this thread. I'll give him and A for effort, but an F for defending such a weak position.

ATX
05-30-2013, 05:30 PM
Got to give Bucketts props. He is single-handedly attempting to defend Lebron against everyone in this thread. I'll give him and A for effort, but an F for defending such a weak position.

And what about you? Single handedly or with your BFF Illusionist going into EVERY SINGLE thread and getting right to your LeBron hating agenda. Such a hypocrite....................

bucketss
05-30-2013, 05:31 PM
Got to give Bucketts props. He is single-handedly attempting to defend Lebron against everyone in this thread. I'll give him and A for effort, but an F for defending such a weak position.

this is more about the celtics big three being the reason miami big three exits today.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 05:32 PM
this is more about the celtics big three being the reason miami big three exits today.

Yes, as I said before. A for effort, but F for weak argument.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 05:33 PM
that was only because he was injured, everyone knew what he was capable of, he was an elite scorer. and garnett beasted in 2007, his team sucked but he went 22 and 12, so i can see why the coaches rewarded the winning teams, but you're not going to find a list any where they kept garnet out of the top ten.

Who is they? And what arbitrary list should I look up? That year, there were 5 big men on the first and second teams. So according to the only list that matters, he was the 6th best PF/C in the league that year.

amos1er
05-30-2013, 05:38 PM
And what about you? Single handedly or with your BFF Illusionist going into EVERY SINGLE thread and getting right to your LeBron hating agenda. Such a hypocrite....................

This thread is about how the Heat will be viewed. Of course Lebron is going to be discussed. Duh!

And it seems that there are more than just me and Illusionist who disagree with you and your Lebron worshiping cohorts. In fact the majority of basketball fans agree that Lebron taking less money to form a super team was down right lame and should be taken into account when assessing his career accomplishments.

bucketss
05-30-2013, 05:48 PM
Who is they? And what arbitrary list should I look up? That year, there were 5 big men on the first and second teams. So according to the only list that matters, he was the 6th best PF/C in the league that year.

only list that matters??? so wade has been a top ten player only once in the miami big three era?? because that list says hes been 3rd team for the past two years. now, bosh also wasn't even been on any team dating back to his last year with toronto.

KnickaBocka.44
05-30-2013, 05:53 PM
only list that matters??? so wade has been a top ten player only once in the miami big three era?? because that list says hes been 3rd team for the past two years. now, bosh also wasn't even been on any team dating back to his last year with toronto.

Yeah, generally when big name players join forces at least one of them sees a drop in their numbers. The year before they got together Wade was first-team all-nba.