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View Full Version : Tony Parker is best PG in NBA. Period.



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harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:01 AM
His career resume, film and current dominance speaks for itself.

I'm thoroughly convinced he's beyond every other PG in the NBA. He has completely separated himself.

natelpete
05-28-2013, 11:02 AM
I can agree with that.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:04 AM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.

Becks2307
05-28-2013, 11:05 AM
yep. Im really beginning to see it. Cp3 has held that title for too long without anything to show for it.

Yes we can all see how great Cp3 is and how he helps his team but his playoff record to this point especially when compared to Parker is just a no brainer.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:05 AM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.

He swept LeBron in the Finals on the way to his Finals MVP in 2007.

NYCkid12
05-28-2013, 11:05 AM
Agreed, best PG in the NBA for few years now

ColtsSpursTerps
05-28-2013, 11:07 AM
For the playoffs there's no other PG right now I'd take on my team over TP

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:07 AM
He swept LeBron in the Finals on the way to his Finals MVP in 2007.

Not the same LeBron. That one's best supporting player was a guy who did the funky business with his mother

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:07 AM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.

The amount of screens they run for him, and the amount of sets where Parker is moving a ton without the ball, there's no way Lebron guards him the majority of games. Maybe every now and then. If Miami advances of course.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:10 AM
"The amount of screens they run for him, and the amount of sets where Parker is moving a ton without the ball, there's no way Lebron guards him the majority of games. Maybe every now and then. If Miami advances of course"

LeBron has the length and lateral quickness where he can afford to go under to contest a jumper or over to chase down a layup

NYCkid12
05-28-2013, 11:10 AM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.

In your opinion, who is the best PG in the league?

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 11:12 AM
Paul is great and gives you the stats we all like to see but Parkers impact and ability to take over a game is far greater then Paul or anyother PG in the league

sammyvine
05-28-2013, 11:12 AM
cp3 is overrated

bad team or not he is on....his record is abysmal. Never been the past the 2nd round

Even Melo has! Clippers had the team to go further, and they failed.

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:13 AM
"The amount of screens they run for him, and the amount of sets where Parker is moving a ton without the ball, there's no way Lebron guards him the majority of games. Maybe every now and then. If Miami advances of course"

LeBron has the length and lateral quickness where he can afford to go under to contest a jumper or over to chase down a layup

I think it's probably accurate that Tony Allen is a better perimeter defender than Lebron. Lebron is obviously bigger, and more athletic, but the amount of misdirection, backdoor, off screen picks (sometimes) before Parker even gets the ball are all very taxing on defenders.

Like I said, if Miami advances, Lebron might guard him in crunch time, or in key moments of the game, but I highly doubt they do it the majority of the game.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:15 AM
In your opinion, who is the best PG in the league?

I still cannot dethrone Chris Paul. Yes Tony Parker controls the game better, but Popovich does a great job creating a system that brings out the best of Parker.

Paul is a better defender, creator, and is better in isolation. Parker is a better pick and roll guy.

torocan
05-28-2013, 11:15 AM
Love CP3. He's a great PG.

Unfortunately Tony Parker is criminally under-rated by many. I find it amazing that some people (fans) don't slot him as a top 3 PG when in my mind he's clearly been a contender for #1 spot for many years.

Tony Parker > Cp3, or at worst equivalent in terms of skillset. All that said in terms of record, Tony Parker is the best PG in the NBA, hands down. End of discussion.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:17 AM
Like I said, if Miami advances, Lebron might guard him in crunch time, or in key moments of the game, but I highly doubt they do it the majority of the game.

This is accurate, I like to compare this situation to the Heat/Bulls series with Rose.

NYCkid12
05-28-2013, 11:19 AM
I still cannot dethrone Chris Paul. Yes Tony Parker controls the game better, but Popovich does a great job creating a system that brings out the best of Parker.

Paul is a better defender, creator, and is better in isolation. Parker is a better pick and roll guy.

I think they are probably about even in all those categories. Except, I think the isolation skills of Paul are overrated. One aspect of the Clippers that was an obvious weakness this season was there half court offense. Some of that blame goes to Del Negro but a bulk of that has to go on Paul. For a guy who is so good at creating shots, why were they so bad in a half court set?

I think Parker doesn't get the credit because he's in San Antonio and doesn't have the flash that Paul does. People don't realize that this has been Tony Parker's team for past 3 years, no longer Duncan's offense.

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:21 AM
This is accurate, I like to compare this situation to the Heat/Bulls series with Rose.

Only difference with using the Rose comparison is Miami was able to collapse on Rose because the Bulls did not have perimeter shooters.

Westbrook36
05-28-2013, 11:22 AM
I think they are probably about even in all those categories. Except, I think the isolation skills of Paul are overrated. One aspect of the Clippers that was an obvious weakness this season was there half court offense. Some of that blame goes to Del Negro but a bulk of that has to go on Paul. For a guy who is so good at creating shots, why were they so bad in a half court set?

I think Parker doesn't get the credit because he's in San Antonio and doesn't have the flash that Paul does. People don't realize that this has been Tony Parker's team for past 3 years, no longer Duncan's offense.

No real post offense from Blake/Jordan?

mightybosstone
05-28-2013, 11:25 AM
I think Parker had become a top 10 guy in the league, and I'd probably give him the No. 2 spot for point guards fairly easily, but I'm not ready to place him ahead of Paul. If you swapped Paul on this Spurs team, could they have the same amount of success? I believe they would. But if you put Parker on the Clippers with that dysfunction and terrible coach, would they be as successful? Perhaps, but I'm less confident about it.

It's unfair to knock Paul for his lack of postseason success and praise Parker for his when you consider the talent and coaching around them.

NYCkid12
05-28-2013, 11:29 AM
No real post offense from Blake/Jordan?

Tony Parker has made Tiago Splitter an effecient and productive player, I think Blake is more talented offensively than Splitter.

Also, the weak offensive game of Blake is exaggerated big time. I'm not saying he has top post moves in the game, but he's definitely not a liability in the post like people make him out to be.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:30 AM
I think Parker had become a top 10 guy in the league, and I'd probably give him the No. 2 spot for point guards fairly easily, but I'm not ready to place him ahead of Paul. If you swapped Paul on this Spurs team, could they have the same amount of success? I believe they would. But if you put Parker on the Clippers with that dysfunction and terrible coach, would they be as successful? Perhaps, but I'm less confident about it.

It's unfair to knock Paul for his lack of postseason success and praise Parker for his when you consider the talent and coaching around them.

It's all hypothetical. Remember the PG position has a lot to do with making your teammates better. Tony Parker is the best driving PG in the NBA. He makes HIS TEAMMATES better.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:30 AM
I think Parker doesn't get the credit because he's in San Antonio and doesn't have the flash that Paul does. People don't realize that this has been Tony Parker's team for past 3 years, no longer Duncan's offense.

I agree with this too, as a lot of the opinions made in the NBA are based on hype.

I'm not saying I'm right. I like Chris Paul over Tony Parker because I believe his skillset is better than Parker's.

As far as the Spurs, yes Tony is driving the team. But you have a great team there. The defense is one of the best. Defensive specialists in guys like Leonard and Splitter are undervalued in their contribution to the team's winning. The team is smart with the shots they take, and has great perimeter shooting in guys like Green, Diaw, Bonner, Ginobli, and other guys can knock em down too. Tim still has an unstoppable post game. They have one of the best coaches in the history of basketball.

When you look at the Clips, you have a much different scenario. Griffin has an improving jumpshot but it is still nowhere near reliable. So the 4-5 are still restricted with 5-10 feet of the basket. This does more than people think to the flow of the game, and causes real problems. They have a deep bench, but a lot of injuries really hurt them. They never had a shooting guard who was anything other than a three point specialist, and their small forward was essentially Matt Barnes, a guy who is average at best. Their coach was just fired.

NYCkid12
05-28-2013, 11:30 AM
I think Parker had become a top 10 guy in the league, and I'd probably give him the No. 2 spot for point guards fairly easily, but I'm not ready to place him ahead of Paul. If you swapped Paul on this Spurs team, could they have the same amount of success? I believe they would. But if you put Parker on the Clippers with that dysfunction and terrible coach, would they be as successful? Perhaps, but I'm less confident about it.

It's unfair to knock Paul for his lack of postseason success and praise Parker for his when you consider the talent and coaching around them.

There was a lot of talent on that Clipper team, the coaching is not even close. But talent wise it's not that far off.

NYCkid12
05-28-2013, 11:33 AM
I agree with this too, as a lot of the opinions made in the NBA are based on hype.

I'm not saying I'm right. I like Chris Paul over Tony Parker because I believe his skillset is better than Parker's.

As far as the Spurs, yes Tony is driving the team. But you have a great team there. The defense is one of the best. Defensive specialists in guys like Leonard and Splitter are undervalued in their contribution to the team's winning. The team is smart with the shots they take, and has great perimeter shooting in guys like Green, Diaw, Bonner, Ginobli, and other guys can knock em down too. Tim still has an unstoppable post game. They have one of the best coaches in the history of basketball.

When you look at the Clips, you have a much different scenario. Griffin has an improving jumpshot but it is still nowhere near reliable. So the 4-5 are still restricted with 5-10 feet of the basket. This does more than people think to the flow of the game, and causes real problems. They have a deep bench, but a lot of injuries really hurt them. They never had a shooting guard who was anything other than a three point specialist, and their small forward was essentially Matt Barnes, a guy who is average at best. Their coach was just fired.

They did have Caron Butler at the 3 but I get your point.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 11:33 AM
cp3 is overrated

bad team or not he is on....his record is abysmal. Never been the past the 2nd round

Even Melo has! Clippers had the team to go further, and they failed.

Place Parker on CP3s teams and they don't advance either, what's the point?

ManRam
05-28-2013, 11:34 AM
the lack of defense still bothers me a little, but it's getting slightly better as time goes on.


making these threads after one monster game usually are poor ideas. catching a lot of people being prisoners of the moment. he was phenomenal last night, and really good all series long. but the two prior series he was pretty meh.

chris paul was great in his first round loss. i think he has had one of the 2-3 best individual series of any player thus far :shrug:, even though his team lost. team success matters, but you still have to be able to differentiate it.


i'm still taking paul, but it's closer than usual for me.

like MBS said, you have to consider the talent surrounding these two teams. the clippers won 2 games, and Paul had a 2.1 Estimated Wins Added and 1.3 Win Shares. that's remarkable. maybe he should have looked for his own shot more, but he wasn't at all the reason they lost. griffin was pretty bad. crawford was a liability. deandre was even more of one. billups, odom, butler, hill, hollins etc. were useless.


i firmly believe if you swap the two this season we're looking at the same results.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:34 AM
They did have Caron Butler at the 3 but I get your point.

Yes but he was injured or basically non-existent for much of the season

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:35 AM
Stop saying swap Paul and Parker to different teams. Paul cannot do what Tony does. So why bring it up?

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 11:36 AM
Paul is a better shooter, way better passer and much better defender than Parker. Place him on the Spurs and they're likely a better team, so why is Parker getting so much love because of his team success? Parker is great no doubt, criminally underrated by many but to state that he's the best because of his team success is inaccurate IMO.

koreancabbage
05-28-2013, 11:37 AM
He swept LeBron in the Finals on the way to his Finals MVP in 2007.

well HE didn't sweep Lebron. Enough with the talk of players beating other players.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 11:37 AM
Stop saying swap Paul and Parker to different teams. Paul cannot do what Tony does. So why bring it up?

Parker can't do what Paul has done.

ManRam
05-28-2013, 11:37 AM
Stop saying swap Paul and Parker to different teams. Paul cannot do what Tony does. So why bring it up?

and tony can't do A LOT of what Paul can :shrug:

jaji10
05-28-2013, 11:39 AM
yup, very very much under rated.. duncan is duncan.. but spurs is led by TP for a few years now.. and he's doing a heck of a job..

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:39 AM
and tony can't do A LOT of what Paul can :shrug:

Yes, that's the point. It's useless to say switch positions because they both bring different skillsets to the team. The system would be different in SA if Paul was there. Because they would design it around Paul.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:40 AM
and tony can't do A LOT of what Paul can :shrug:

Yes, that's the point. It's useless to say switch positions because they both bring different skillsets to the team. The system would be different in SA if Paul was there. Because they would design it around Paul.

koreancabbage
05-28-2013, 11:40 AM
also, 2 words: gregg popovich.

tony parker isn't your prototypical PG but he is in that role for that team. as a pure PG, he's not the best but he's a darn good player. he's being used very effectively (i.e. doesn't need to be used as a prototypical PG) and this team was built around Parker and Duncan.

Though I would take him over any PG right now in the playoffs. dude's been awesomely great.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:40 AM
Paul is a better shooter, way better passer and much better defender than Parker. Place him on the Spurs and they're likely a better team, so why is Parker getting so much love because of his team success? Parker is great no doubt, criminally underrated by many but to state that he's the best because of his team success is inaccurate IMO.

This is a little exaggerated, but accurate.

koreancabbage
05-28-2013, 11:40 AM
also, 2 words: gregg popovich.

tony parker isn't your prototypical PG but he is in that role for that team. as a pure PG, he's not the best but he's a darn good player. he's being used very effectively (i.e. doesn't need to be used as a prototypical PG) and this team was built around Parker and Duncan.

Though I would take him over any PG right now in the playoffs. dude's been awesomely great.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:40 AM
Paul is a better shooter, way better passer and much better defender than Parker. Place him on the Spurs and they're likely a better team, so why is Parker getting so much love because of his team success? Parker is great no doubt, criminally underrated by many but to state that he's the best because of his team success is inaccurate IMO.

This is a little exaggerated, but accurate.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:43 AM
also, 2 words: gregg popovich.

Those 2 words are the reason the Spurs are in the finals

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:44 AM
Paul is a better shooter, way better passer and much better defender than Parker. Place him on the Spurs and they're likely a better team, so why is Parker getting so much love because of his team success? Parker is great no doubt, criminally underrated by many but to state that he's the best because of his team success is inaccurate IMO.

Even with all that said about Paul, I'm not so sure about that. Parker's ability to get in the paint and move so well without the ball in the half court are things that aren't necessarily Paul's strong suit, yet they're depended on highly in the Spurs offense.

If you just watch Parker when he doesn't have the ball the amount of cuts, and down screens that are set for him, he expends a ton of energy even when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. Paul has never been that kind of guy, cause he always has the ball.

BALLER R
05-28-2013, 11:44 AM
Everyone looks at the flashiest guys that's why he doesn't get enough respect. If Spurs win a championship this year your looking at the Finals MVP.

BALLER R
05-28-2013, 11:46 AM
People acting like Parker isn't a main reason why the Spurs are in the Finals.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:48 AM
Even with all that said about Paul, I'm not so sure about that. Parker's ability to get in the paint and move so well without the ball in the half court are things that aren't necessarily Paul's strong suit, yet they're depended on highly in the Spurs offense.


Yes but Paul is one of the best at creating his own shot in isolation. Sometimes in a possession Parker receives up to three screens before a shot goes up, which... is great and efficient... but if we're talking sheer skillset this is a counter-argument

KingPosey
05-28-2013, 11:51 AM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.for like 3 plays In The game, probably does well, but everyone points at the box score and acts like he shut him down for 40 minutes.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:52 AM
I think the general consensus on the debate is that Paul could do what Parker does, and not the other way around, as far as pure skill.

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:52 AM
Yes but Paul is one of the best at creating his own shot in isolation. Sometimes in a possession Parker receives up to three screens before a shot goes up, which... is great and efficient... but if we're talking sheer skillset this is a counter-argument

But the Spurs system does not require strong isolation play. It's not about skillset, it's about what the system calls for. I don't think anyone would disagree in thinking Parker could play iso ball and get by his defender whenever he needed to in most cases. But that's not how the Spurs operate.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 11:54 AM
But the Spurs system does not require strong isolation play. It's not about skillset, it's about what the system calls for. I don't think anyone would disagree in thinking Parker could play iso ball and get by his defender whenever he needed to in most cases. But that's not how the Spurs operate.

Correct but the forum was created to argue best point guards. When I look at a player, I look at what he brings to the table, not what his team does.

ManRam
05-28-2013, 11:54 AM
i hate arguing against Parker because i hate much of the logic out there that slams these non-"true" or "pure" PGs. i think in today's NBA what parker does is as conducive to winning as what the most pass-first PG in the league does, if not more.

i do think paul's game is just more well-rounded, and not really because he's a better passer really.

Knick_Fever
05-28-2013, 11:55 AM
He's definitely playing at an mvp level right now. He's saving his best for the finals though, shredding the defense at will.

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:56 AM
I think the general consensus on the debate is that Paul could do what Parker does, and not the other way around, as far as skill.

But that's just it... Parker is in a system where he doesn't have to do what Paul does. He has had some great individual games, but the team relies on ball movement, & open shots. That's why Green, Leonard, and Bonner for that matter have been such key pieces on this team. It's why Splitter is shooting 61% from the field in the playoffs and gets so many open looks around the rim. It's why that mid range shot is there 90% of the time for Duncan.

The Spurs offense/system in a way as great as it is, probably takes away what Parker is capable of doing in other teams systems. It's a double edged sword. But it's what's best for the team

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:56 AM
The Spurs prefer an athletic PG capable of playing off ball. Chris Paul is neither of these. He does not play off ball. He is not nearly as athletic as Parker. Tony can change direction laterally much faster than Paul. Plus his first step would leave Paul in the dust. Also, Parker's body control and finish at the rim is much better.

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:57 AM
Correct but the forum was created to argue best point guards. When I look at a player, I look at what he brings to the table, not what his team does.

Well, I've already said I'd give the slight nod to Paul. My thing is trying to sort of swap player A with player B argument..

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 11:58 AM
Parker can't do what Paul has done.

like win multiple rings and a finals MVP...?

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:59 AM
I also want to say, Parker has evolved his game. He now is lethal from mid range.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:02 PM
Even with all that said about Paul, I'm not so sure about that. Parker's ability to get in the paint and move so well without the ball in the half court are things that aren't necessarily Paul's strong suit, yet they're depended on highly in the Spurs offense.

If you just watch Parker when he doesn't have the ball the amount of cuts, and down screens that are set for him, he expends a ton of energy even when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. Paul has never been that kind of guy, cause he always has the ball.

Who is to say with the best floor general in the NBA on the floor that the Spurs offensive dynamic would not change? Pop knows better than anyone how to work with the players he has in order to get the best results, who is to say that he couldn't shake things up a bit with Paul on board, he has the players at his disposal to do so and Paul knows a thing or two about running an efficient offense.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:03 PM
like win multiple rings and a finals MVP...?

Has Parker played with the greatest PF in the history of the NBA, a top 5 6th man all time (top 20 SG easily) and a top 3 coach all time?

If he did then that argument would be valid.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:06 PM
The Spurs prefer an athletic PG capable of playing off ball. Chris Paul is neither of these. He does not play off ball. He is not nearly as athletic as Parker. Tony can change direction laterally much faster than Paul. Plus his first step would leave Paul in the dust. Also, Parker's body control and finish at the rim is much better.

You created this forum, yet argue using the Spurs system, and not truly comparing the two point guards. Also your two last statements are outrageous. If you ever watch Tony Parker, you know his best move is his crossover. It isn't fancy, but it is very quick, and his footwork is uncanny. With this move, he generally has lots more room to work with then the normal point guard. Paul could guard it.

Yes Tony has made some very acrobatic shots in his day, but I see Paul to be the better athlete and finisher at the rim. He doesn't do it as often as Parker, and usually he only takes open looks, but his ability to get to the rim with a variety of moves and ability to finish there is extremely rare in a point guard.

Paul would beat Parker 1 on 1. But that's not a valid argument

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:07 PM
If Parker dominates the Finals and wins as the main man this argument is over. At that point the conversation moves to is Parker the best player in the NBA.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:07 PM
The Spurs prefer an athletic PG capable of playing off ball. Chris Paul is neither of these. He does not play off ball. He is not nearly as athletic as Parker. Tony can change direction laterally much faster than Paul. Plus his first step would leave Paul in the dust. Also, Parker's body control and finish at the rim is much better.

But yet still this past season Parker shot 66% at the rim and Paul shot 72%.... interesting isn't it. To say that Paul isn't nearly as athletic as Tony.... Get real. He isn't as quick but so is 95% of the other PGs in the league doesn't mean he isn't nearly as athletic. He is stronger than Parker, is more explosive and in the speed department is in the upper 3rd in the league among PGs.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:08 PM
You created this forum, yet argue using the Spurs system, and not truly comparing the two point guards. Also your two last statements are outrageous. If you ever watch Tony Parker, you know his best move is his crossover. It isn't fancy, but it is very quick, and his footwork is uncanny. With this move, he generally has lots more room to work with then the normal point guard.

Yes Tony has made some very acrobatic shots in his day, but I see Paul to be the better athlete and finisher at the rim. He doesn't do it as often as Parker, and usually he only takes open looks, but his ability to get to the rim with a variety of moves and ability to finish there is extremely rare in a point guard

No. Parker is more athletic than Paul. He's quicker.

Knick_Fever
05-28-2013, 12:10 PM
I also want to say, Parker has evolved his game. He now is lethal from mid range.

His shot selection and defense are vastly improved as well. But something that you dont hear people talk enough about is his movement w/out the ball. I cant count how many times he was found lingering behind the defense for a layup.

koreancabbage
05-28-2013, 12:11 PM
No. Parker is more athletic than Paul. He's quicker.

he's more agile and quicker but that doesn't he's more athletic than Paul.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:12 PM
If Parker dominates the Finals and wins as the main man this argument is over. At that point the conversation moves to is Parker the best player in the NBA.

No. Parker is more athletic than Paul. He's quicker.

Your statements get more and more ridiculous.

Knick_Fever
05-28-2013, 12:13 PM
No. Parker is more athletic than Paul. He's quicker.

He's definitely quicker, probably the quickest in the league. Good health obviously being the reason this year.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:14 PM
he's more agile and quicker but that doesn't he's more athletic than Paul.

It means a lot. Basketball is a non contact sport. To be able to move more swiftly and explosively matter in a sport like this. Especially for perimeter players where strength is not as important. You can't just grab a hold of Parker if you are stronger. That's a foul.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:15 PM
It was one thing to say best point guard, but even if he wins the finals, he will not be the best player in the NBA. The best player on the best team is as good as a title Tony Parker can get

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 12:16 PM
But yet still this past season Parker shot 66% at the rim and Paul shot 72%.... interesting isn't it. To say that Paul isn't nearly as athletic as Tony.... Get real. He isn't as quick but so is 95% of the other PGs in the league doesn't mean he isn't nearly as athletic. He is stronger than Parker, is more explosive and in the speed department is in the upper 3rd in the league among PGs.

I honestly think those 2 are very debatable, but again a matter of opinion from all ends.

Knick_Fever
05-28-2013, 12:16 PM
he's more agile and quicker but that doesn't he's more athletic than Paul.

Depends which measuring tactic you use. In terms of finishing, yes. Remember that and-1 against the warriors? That was more athleticism than luck.

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 12:17 PM
Has Parker played with the greatest PF in the history of the NBA, a top 5 6th man all time (top 20 SG easily) and a top 3 coach all time?

If he did then that argument would be valid.

blah blah blah

hes leading his team to another ring, wheres Paul?

RaiderFaithful
05-28-2013, 12:17 PM
I feel like every time Tony Parker has a good game this thread comes back he's a nice player but isn't the best

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:18 PM
It was one thing to say best point guard, but even if he wins the finals, he will not be the best player in the NBA. The best player on the best team is as good as a title Tony Parker can get

Tony Parker had a strong MVP case before he was injured in February. He has proven he can sustain excellent play.

Now the real season starts. If he is by far the best player on the court against the Heat then he makes a titanic case.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:19 PM
blah blah blah

hes leading his team to another ring, wheres Paul?

Neither Paul nor Parker will be celebrating a title this year unfortunately. Let's not overhype this, the Heat are a better team and are in a better situation to win it this year then last.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:20 PM
No. Parker is more athletic than Paul. He's quicker.

Quicker doesn't make you more athletic it makes you quicker that's one aspect of athleticism and the difference really isn't that great.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Everyone keeps talking about Parker winning a ring. He won't win one this year. Leonard can guard LeBron (attempt). Who guards Wade/Bosh and the barrage of three pointers?

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Who is to say with the best floor general in the NBA on the floor that the Spurs offensive dynamic would not change? Pop knows better than anyone how to work with the players he has in order to get the best results, who is to say that he couldn't shake things up a bit with Paul on board, he has the players at his disposal to do so and Paul knows a thing or two about running an efficient offense.

Oh yea, it's certainly possible. But I think what Parker does for this team gets overlooked. I also am not sure how Paul would handle Pop getting in his face or benching him. There's just no way of knowing who would do what if situations were different.

What I believe, is Parker is the best PG for this Spurs team from a player perspective, but also as a teammate (except if you're Brent Barry) and as a person.

Longhornfan1234
05-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Rondo is the best PG. How quickly people forgot.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:22 PM
blah blah blah

hes leading his team to another ring, wheres Paul?

Paul George could be doing the same does that make him better than Durant?

This is a TEAM sport where is your contextual understanding of that. They sure won't be there without TD (the real MVP of the Spurs). Paul's 2nd best player was a no show this post season due to injury and his 6th man played even worse than Manu, he also didn't have a Kawhi or most importantly coach Pop in his corner. Are you just going to ignore all that. Get real.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:24 PM
Oh yea, it's certainly possible. But I think what Parker does for this team gets overlooked. I also am not sure how Paul would handle Pop getting in his face or benching him. There's just no way of knowing who would do what if situations were different.

What I believe, is Parker is the best PG for this Spurs team from a player perspective, but also as a teammate (except if you're Brent Barry) and as a person.

Perfectly IMO. He has always done what coaches has asked of him (to a fault IMO) don't really see why he couldn't deal with the best in the business. I understand your POV but I think Paul would have just as much success or even more with such a great supporting cast as Parker would tbh.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:24 PM
Paul George could be doing the same does that make him better than Durant?

This is a TEAM sport where is your contextual understanding of that. They sure won't be there without TD (the real MVP of the Spurs). Paul's 2nd best player was a no show this post season due to injury and his 6th man played even worse than Manu, he also didn't have a Kawhi or most importantly coach Pop in his corner. Are you just going to ignore all that. Get real.

So I guess Magic isn't that good. He had just as much help as Parker.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:24 PM
http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/chris-paul-vs-tony-parker-1931028/

an ongoing debate on this very subject on another website. lol

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Popm1PvCTX4

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:30 PM
So I guess Magic isn't that good. He had just as much help as Parker.

And Magic was a better passer, scorer, rebounder, defender and clutch player than Parker was. In many aspects much better. Unlike Parker Magic was always the best player on his championship teams (rookie year was debatable but he's as close to it as you get).

Take a look at Parker the individual. What does he do THAT much better than Paul to make him THAT much better of a player?

Parker is in a MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHh better situation for winning and he's doing just that. He's an all star and a top 5 PG you'd expect that much of him.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:33 PM
Tony Parker wins. Chris Paul does not win. Paul doesn't even make noise in the playoffs. Forget the rings, he can't even make it to the conference finals.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:34 PM
Tony Parker wins. Chris Paul does not win. Paul doesn't even make noise in the playoffs. Forget the rings, he can't even make it to the conference finals.

The SPURS win. This is a TEAM sport I don't know if you are capable of understanding that.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 12:35 PM
Tony Parker wins. Chris Paul does not win. Paul doesn't even make noise in the playoffs. Forget the rings, he can't even make it to the conference finals.

This is not always the best argument, as we have tried to explain for 6 pages on this forum, yet you still can't comprehend

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:40 PM
The SPURS win. This is a TEAM sport I don't know if you are capable of understanding that.

You play to win.

ManRam
05-28-2013, 12:41 PM
blah blah blah

hes leading his team to another ring, wheres Paul?

is paul george now a better player than kevin durant because he led his team further?

Sadds The Gr8
05-28-2013, 12:42 PM
Did people just forget that Stephen Curry was taking this man's lunch last series before he rolled his ankle? Parker is great at what he does, but he's not close to Paul when it comes to defense and playmaking. The only advantage I'd give Parker is scoring, and that's mainly because of his mentality. I think Paul could score as much as him but he chooses not to (I hate that because Paul being an aggressive scorer along with his great passing in NO was what made me like him)

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:42 PM
You play to win.

You play as a TEAM.

ManRam
05-28-2013, 12:43 PM
You play to win.

no ****.

and some players are on teams that are more adept to doing so than others, and often that's entirely out of their individual control/.


i don't get how this concept of "not everyone is on similarly talented teams, nor does every player have an equal opportunity for team success" is such a hard one to grasp :laugh2:

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 12:46 PM
no ****.

and some players are on teams that are more adept to doing so than others, and often that's entirely out of their individual control/.


i don't get how this concept of "not everyone is on similarly talented teams, nor does every player have an equal opportunity for team success" is such a hard one to grasp :laugh2:

Rings matter. 3 rings and possibly 4 in a few weeks is too much for 0 to overcome.

Sadds The Gr8
05-28-2013, 12:49 PM
Sometimes I wonder if some of you people even watch the full games and see what each player does, or just tune into the 4th quarter/last 5 mins and see who won...

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 12:58 PM
Sometimes I wonder if some of you people even watch the full games and see what each player does, or just tune into the 4th quarter/last 5 mins and see who won...

Not even that.... highlights on SportsCenter

Hangtime
05-28-2013, 01:03 PM
Tony Parker has Pop for a coach
CP3 has Del Negro

Parker has Duncan. An old Duncan at that, but they been together for years
Cp3 has a athletic one dimensional Griffin who got served by Randolph even before he got hurt.

What you have around you makes all the difference in the world and also the teams you face in the playoffs. Let's not act like those things don't matter.

Shlumpledink
05-28-2013, 01:08 PM
Parker doesn't get enough credit for his team's success

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 01:23 PM
Parker doesn't get enough credit for his team's success

Bingo. It's always somebody else's play.

R. Johnson#3
05-28-2013, 01:25 PM
Parker doesn't get enough credit for his team's success

Shabam!

Although Parker was unconscious last night and I don't think anyone can take the credit away from him.

Pakman
05-28-2013, 01:26 PM
Meh its debatable I guess

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 01:28 PM
Neither Paul nor Parker will be celebrating a title this year unfortunately. Let's not overhype this, the Heat are a better team and are in a better situation to win it this year then last.

how are they in a better sitaution than SA? Spurs are getting rest now which is the most imoprtant thing for them. I expect Miami to go maybe even 7 with Indy. Spurs are just as good as Miami as team, it shouldnt surprise anyone if they win it all

C-Wick925
05-28-2013, 01:34 PM
Period.

TheNumber37
05-28-2013, 01:41 PM
I'd love to see Parker outside of the Spur's system. Like, as Indiana's PG.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 01:48 PM
I'd love to see Parker outside of the Spur's system. Like, as Indiana's PG.

He's in the system that he's in. Don't worry about the hypothetical.

MikefromMars
05-28-2013, 01:51 PM
Parker leads the Spurs to a sweep over the Griz and Paul is eliminated in the first round. One is already a Hall of Famer and the other is still trying to do anything worth remembering...

waveycrockett
05-28-2013, 01:58 PM
He plays in a great system but if he played for the pistons or hornets he would not look any where near this good. Pop makes the game easy

LAKobeBryant
05-28-2013, 02:02 PM
Cp3 can get to same spot as their in almost every year if he had a low post scorer. Especially arguably the best player to ever play the PF spot. But cp3 and Parker arent far apart from each other currently, I give cp3 slit edge still.

MikefromMars
05-28-2013, 02:06 PM
He plays in a great system but if he played for the pistons or hornets he would not look any where near this good. Pop makes the game easy

You know buckets don't just go in the hoop because of coaching... You know Pop doesn't push a button and make Parker perform a crossover or acrobatic layup... You know it's not easy to dominate points in the paint when you're small by NBA standards... I mean, yes he has GREAT coaching, but he still has to do the work.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 02:07 PM
Chris Paul is not a superstar

waveycrockett
05-28-2013, 02:07 PM
He plays in a great system but if he played for the pistons or hornets he would not look any where near this good. Pop makes the game easy

You know buckets don't just go in the hoop because of coaching... You know Pop doesn't push a button and make Parker perform a crossover or acrobatic layup... You know it's not easy to dominate points in the paint when you're small by NBA standards... I mean, yes he has GREAT coaching, but he still has to do the work.

That has nothing to do with TP playing in a great system

3RDASYSTEM
05-28-2013, 02:41 PM
His career resume, film and current dominance speaks for itself.

I'm thoroughly convinced he's beyond every other PG in the NBA. He has completely separated himself.

If basing this on past couple seasons as MVP candidate then maybe....clearly he could always play but had to work on consistent j which has improved

basically every dog has its day and people will overreact and get caught up in the 'now'

he's like the lil wayne of nba, been around forever before claiming he was the 'best'

makes for a cool story but he's been top 10 since 07', top 5 past two yrs but not a top 3 player in the league

never has been and never will be

think about it he's 30yrs old and is just now considered by ROSE to be a top 3 player, poppycock

mightybosstone
05-28-2013, 02:45 PM
It's all hypothetical. Remember the PG position has a lot to do with making your teammates better. Tony Parker is the best driving PG in the NBA. He makes HIS TEAMMATES better.
And Paul doesn't? Forget hypotheticals for a second. Chris Paul is statistically a better player than Tony Parker, and that's not even that close. And to say he doesn't make his teammates better when he's always near the top of every assist category and we constantly see him make phenomenal passes every game is totally ludicrous.


There was a lot of talent on that Clipper team, the coaching is not even close. But talent wise it's not that far off.
But it's young talent versus veteran talent. Blake Griffin may seem like a better No. 2 option than Tim Duncan, but I'd much rather have Duncan on my squad because of his defense, his basketball IQ, his perimeter shooting and his veteran leadership. And all of the young supporting guys on the Spurs have clear, concise roles that they play to perfection. The talent maybe somewhat similar, but the Spurs are just a smarter, superior run team from the top down.

mightybosstone
05-28-2013, 02:48 PM
You know buckets don't just go in the hoop because of coaching... You know Pop doesn't push a button and make Parker perform a crossover or acrobatic layup... You know it's not easy to dominate points in the paint when you're small by NBA standards... I mean, yes he has GREAT coaching, but he still has to do the work.

And yet Paul is statistically a more dominant player.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 02:55 PM
And yet Paul is statistically a more dominant player.

Who cares about stats? Most people who make a living talking about basketball use their eyes. Their eyes say Parker is the best in the league.

mightybosstone
05-28-2013, 03:00 PM
Who cares about stats? Most people who make a living talking about basketball use their eyes. Their eyes say Parker is the best in the league.
Really? Mine don't. I see Parker as a phenomenal, Hall of Fame caliber basketball player who makes those around him better and has a knack for getting to the rim at will. But Paul is in another class. He'll go down as one of the 3-5 greatest PGs in the history of the NBA. Also, anyone with eyes could tell which team is better coached, better constructed and has better teammates.

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 03:04 PM
is paul george now a better player than kevin durant because he led his team further?

no, im not talking aobut a 3rd year players whose just making his mark. we're talking about 2 veterans who have been around a while; onehas been underrated for years while the other has seem to become overrated. Parker has been the Spurs most improtant player for the last 3 years at least, without him where they be this year?

SteBO
05-28-2013, 03:04 PM
Parker's without question top 5......arguably top 3 when factoring the health of another PG. But I still think CP3 is the best PG in the NBA still. He's been able to do more with less imo. In no way a knock on Tony Parker, who's an indisputable HOF'er.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 03:06 PM
Really? Mine don't. I see Parker as a phenomenal, Hall of Fame caliber basketball player who makes those around him better and has a knack for getting to the rim at will. But Paul is in another class. He'll go down as one of the 3-5 greatest PGs in the history of the NBA. Also, anyone with eyes could tell which team is better coached, better constructed and has better teammates.

My eyes tell me that Paul cannot have enough impact on the game to take his team deep into the playoffs. How can you be a top 3-5 PG ever and not single-handedly (if you must) elevate your team?

Look at Duncan in 2003, he took a lottery team to the championship and won. That is what all time top 3 greatness can do.

More-Than-Most
05-28-2013, 03:10 PM
People are so silly.

CP3 is better at almost everything when compared to parker but parker is the best individual player because he has a genius coach with a great all around team????

Note- How did CP3 play in the first round before being Eliminated?

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 03:17 PM
People are so silly.

CP3 is better at almost everything when compared to parker but parker is the best individual player because he has a genius coach with a great all around team????

Note- How did CP3 play in the first round before being Eliminated?

A player is not defined by his skillset. You cannot isolate certain things and go X, Y, Z. Players are the sums of their parts. His heart, his will, his on court impact is what defines a player.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-28-2013, 03:20 PM
Ugh, why does the NBA forum have to make a player that was pretty underrated before and make him overrated? I'd still take Chris Paul over him and if Rose was fully healthy he could probably be ahead of him as well.

mightybosstone
05-28-2013, 03:22 PM
My eyes tell me that Paul cannot have enough impact on the game to take his team deep into the playoffs. How can you be a top 3-5 PG ever and not single-handedly (if you must) elevate your team?
You should look at Paul's postseason number in 07-08, 10-11 and this year and tell me he's not doing enough to elevate his team. And I'll never forget that series in 10-11 when he completely willed that inferior New Orleans team to six games against the Lakers. That team was complete trash, Paul was clearly hurt and he still played out of his ****ing mind at a level I've rarely ever seen players reach.


Look at Duncan in 2003, he took a lottery team to the championship and won. That is what all time top 3 greatness can do.
First off, Duncan has nothing to do with this conversation. Secondly, point guards and big men are two completely different conversations, because big men have far more of an impact on the defensive end of the floor than point guards do and they're much easier to build around. And finally, I think it's funny that you rip Parker's talent in the same thread that you praise him.

People are so silly.

CP3 is better at almost everything when compared to parker but parker is the best individual player because he has a genius coach with a great all around team????

Note- How did CP3 play in the first round before being Eliminated?
I can't tell what side of the argument you're trying to take, but I can tell you that Paul played unbelievably in that series against Memphis. He put up 23/6/4/2 on 53% shooting while Griffin was pathetic and the second best player in that series was probably Matt freaking Barnes. So while he may have some talent around him in LA, that talent certainly did not play up to it in that playoff series.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 03:42 PM
I don't care about numbers and I never will.

Parker is still better.

ddhulett
05-28-2013, 03:44 PM
I couldn't agree more with this.

Parker is the type of player every team would want, he can play the court so well as far as breaking down the defense and working within the system. Good shooter who takes smart shots and plays great defense.

We all love the Nash, Kidd, Stockton, CP3, DWilliams type PG but the only guy that has a chamionship is Kidd and he didn't even win it when he carried the team he was more of a role player.

mightybosstone
05-28-2013, 03:48 PM
I don't care about numbers and I never will.

Parker is still better.

Hahaha..... What a joke. You completely refuse to use stats as a way to judge sports when sports themselves are entirely based upon stats. Why do you think they keep score at all? If a team scored fewer points, but it looked like they played better, does that team deserve to win the game? No. So it goes with player comparisons. I don't care if you think Parker looks better in games. Not only would I disagree, but statistically, he's an inferior basketball player and it's not close.

mightybosstone
05-28-2013, 03:50 PM
I couldn't agree more with this.

Parker is the type of player every team would want, he can play the court so well as far as breaking down the defense and working within the system. Good shooter who takes smart shots and plays great defense.

We all love the Nash, Kidd, Stockton, CP3, DWilliams type PG but the only guy that has a chamionship is Kidd and he didn't even win it when he carried the team he was more of a role player.

Yeah, but the thing that separates Parker from those guys is they never played with a player as talented as Tim Duncan or a coach as amazing as Greg Poppovich.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 03:51 PM
Harry. You had a good initial argument but you've blown things out of proportion with your profound love for Tony Parker. He is reportedly single (not with Eva Longoria anymore, for whatever crazy reason, cause she's a dime) so why don't you go nightclubbing with him and protect him?

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 04:06 PM
Robert Horry >>>>>>>>>>> Tim Duncan

7>>>>4

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 04:11 PM
I couldn't agree more with this.

Parker is the type of player every team would want, he can play the court so well as far as breaking down the defense and working within the system. Good shooter who takes smart shots and plays great defense.

We all love the Nash, Kidd, Stockton, CP3, DWilliams type PG but the only guy that has a chamionship is Kidd and he didn't even win it when he carried the team he was more of a role player.

This thread is about Tony Parker not Tony Allen, Parker is not a great defender. He isn't even top 10 among PGs in that aspect.

Bledsoe, Lowry, Paul, Holiday, Bradley, Westbrook, Conley, George Hill, John Wall, Rubio, Rondo are all better off the top of my head and that's exclusive of Rose who is also better than Parker is on that end if the floor.

Sadds The Gr8
05-28-2013, 04:28 PM
Robert Horry >>>>>>>>>>> Tim Duncan

7>>>>4

Derek Fisher >>>>>> Parker

Brendan Haywood >>>>> Dwight

JJ Barea >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Derrick Rose

Cubby
05-28-2013, 04:29 PM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.

LeBron can't shut down any of the elite PGs in this league. He can't keep up for more than a few minutes.

*Superman*
05-28-2013, 04:30 PM
Can't believe he was on the trading block for awhile.

ManRam
05-28-2013, 04:35 PM
no, im not talking aobut a 3rd year players whose just making his mark. we're talking about 2 veterans who have been around a while; onehas been underrated for years while the other has seem to become overrated. Parker has been the Spurs most improtant player for the last 3 years at least, without him where they be this year?

what, besides team success, leads you to think paul is overrated?

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 04:35 PM
Robert Horry >>>>>>>>>>> Tim Duncan

7>>>>4

no but TP>CP

ManRam
05-28-2013, 04:36 PM
A player is not defined by his skillset. You cannot isolate certain things and go X, Y, Z. Players are the sums of their parts. His heart, his will, his on court impact is what defines a player.

is this hawk harrelson?

#TWTW

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 04:39 PM
Adam Morrison is clearly better than LeBron James. 2>1

Darko Milicic is also better than Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, and Carmelo Anthony.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 04:39 PM
is this hawk harrelson?

#TWTW

Are players not the sum of their parts? Don't isolate their games. A player is not his jumper. He's not his rebounding. He's not his passing. He's not his defense. He's everything that makes up his on court impact.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 04:43 PM
no but TP>CP

Dude you have provided absolutely nothing to the debate I am having a hard time believing you're being serious I honestly thing you're trolling us all.

xRipCity
05-28-2013, 04:47 PM
Dude you have provided absolutely nothing to the debate I am having a hard time believing you're being serious I honestly thing you're trolling us all.

have been thinking this for awhile now

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 04:51 PM
have been thinking this for awhile now

Thinking may be the wrong word because when your argument is based on team success it's clear that much thought really hasn't gone into it

TheIlladelph16
05-28-2013, 04:51 PM
Lol this guy has got to be a dupe

#TWTW

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 04:55 PM
what, besides team success, leads you to think paul is overrated?

thats really all that matters for superstars. Melo gets ripped for it why cant Paul?

TheIlladelph16
05-28-2013, 05:08 PM
thats really all that matters for superstars. Melo gets ripped for it why cant Paul?

Well CP3 has performed in the playoffs quite well despite his team's failures. Melo is more hit or miss in that regard. CP3 in the playoffs >>>>>>>> Melo in the playoffs.

b@llhog24
05-28-2013, 05:11 PM
Lmao, no he isn't. Top 3 probably.

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 05:13 PM
thats really all that matters for superstars. Melo gets ripped for it why cant Paul?

Melo gets ripped because of his fan base. Not for not getting further in the post season, he get ripped BY FAR more for his chucking ways, unwillingness to pass, lazy defense and inconsistent play. None of those things are an issue with Paul.

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 05:36 PM
Dude you have provided absolutely nothing to the debate I am having a hard time believing you're being serious I honestly thing you're trolling us all.

sorry im not giving u some crazy 5 paragraph adavanced stat response. I like TP's game better, i think he impacts the game more, i think he was top 3 in MVP before going donw this year. All i hear is Parkers success is bcuz of his team and coach, well ya gotta be a good player to succeed, not just anyone can do it espcially not on his level. You take Paul and ill take the rings

Avenged
05-28-2013, 05:57 PM
He's definitely up there. Top 3 for sure, case for #2. 1 is a stretch but I have no big issue with anyone thinking so.

More-Than-Most
05-28-2013, 06:59 PM
You should look at Paul's postseason number in 07-08, 10-11 and this year and tell me he's not doing enough to elevate his team. And I'll never forget that series in 10-11 when he completely willed that inferior New Orleans team to six games against the Lakers. That team was complete trash, Paul was clearly hurt and he still played out of his ****ing mind at a level I've rarely ever seen players reach.


First off, Duncan has nothing to do with this conversation. Secondly, point guards and big men are two completely different conversations, because big men have far more of an impact on the defensive end of the floor than point guards do and they're much easier to build around. And finally, I think it's funny that you rip Parker's talent in the same thread that you praise him.

I can't tell what side of the argument you're trying to take, but I can tell you that Paul played unbelievably in that series against Memphis. He put up 23/6/4/2 on 53% shooting while Griffin was pathetic and the second best player in that series was probably Matt freaking Barnes. So while he may have some talent around him in LA, that talent certainly did not play up to it in that playoff series.

CP3 is not just better he is far better than Parker.... That is the side I am taking

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 07:15 PM
sorry im not giving u some crazy 5 paragraph adavanced stat response. I like TP's game better, i think he impacts the game more, i think he was top 3 in MVP before going donw this year. All i hear is Parkers success is bcuz of his team and coach, well ya gotta be a good player to succeed, not just anyone can do it espcially not on his level. You take Paul and ill take the rings

Parker or Jerry West who's better?

2-ONE-5
05-28-2013, 08:37 PM
see now your just continuing to be childish.

IversonIsKrazy
05-28-2013, 08:40 PM
Parker does exactly what the team needs. In games that they can't score, he will score at will. When everyone is hot from the 3, it is because he is dishing out 12+assists that game. He understands what his team needs that particular game and fulfills that need greatly.

What makes him so hard to guard is that he never plays Hero ball, he runs through about 4 screens before he gets the ball after giving it up, followed by 1 or 2 P&R's. So patient. It can be argued as top PG of the game, but nonetheless he is great and his resume is undeniable.

b@llhog24
05-28-2013, 08:57 PM
CP3 is not just better he is far better than Parker.... That is the side I am taking

So true, it's funny that the very same posters who assert that stats aren't everything don't understand that particular phrase applies to Cp3 more so than any other player even with his ridiculous stats. His impact goes far beyond his statlines. See the NOLA after he left.


Parker or Jerry West who's better?

Parker, cuz he gats dose rwings!

JJ_JKidd
05-28-2013, 09:29 PM
His career resume, film and current dominance speaks for itself.

I'm thoroughly convinced he's beyond every other PG in the NBA. He has completely separated himself.

I thought it was Paul? Or D Will? Just because TP is in the Finals again that people are saying this? SMH

Swashcuff
05-28-2013, 09:37 PM
see now your just continuing to be childish.

Im not you say all that matters for superstars is rings by that argument Parkershould be better than West shouldn't he? They both had great casts so its fair.

b@llhog24
05-28-2013, 09:50 PM
Off of my trolling shtick, I'm wondering if Tony actually cracks the top 50 player list with 4 rings and possibly two FMVP.

Avenged
05-28-2013, 10:29 PM
Off of my trolling shtick, I'm wondering if Tony actually cracks the top 50 player list with 4 rings and possibly two FMVP.

Just goes to show how underrated he is if you have to wonder with that resume.

galamabx
05-28-2013, 10:33 PM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system.http://www.gmum.info/5j1.jpg

b@llhog24
05-28-2013, 10:44 PM
Just goes to show how underrated he is if you have to wonder with that resume.

Depends on how you rate your players. In technicality he was a role player for two of those rings and the third best player for 3rd one and had stacked team for the 4th; although he's undoubtedly the best player on that roster in my mind. It's like the argument that's used against Kobe, but on steroids.

chi-townlove1
05-28-2013, 10:48 PM
People so soon forget how good derrick rose actually is. It's ok, his rise to stardom will be here once again soon enough.

kdspurman
05-28-2013, 11:02 PM
Off of my trolling shtick, I'm wondering if Tony actually cracks the top 50 player list with 4 rings and possibly two FMVP.

I'm sure it's not something he'll lose sleep about either way. He's come a long way from a 19 year old kid, just now sort of coming into his own these past couple seasons. People will rate him where they rate him, but at the end of the day he's had a pretty nice NBA career thus far.

waveycrockett
05-28-2013, 11:52 PM
Anybody who seriously thinks Tony Parker is the best PG in the game is legitamately out of their mind. SPURS fans are excused I can't blame you guys you got a helluva PG but he got a huge break in that the best PG in the west injured his knee in round 1.

harryharrison
05-28-2013, 11:55 PM
I can't remember the last time somebody with a major impact on a Finals series that they won got this much dismissal. At the very least he's the 2nd best PG in the league.

Think about it? Could Melo, Iverson, McGrady, Carter, etc. ever win Finals MVP and then just fade away?

b@llhog24
05-28-2013, 11:56 PM
I'm sure it's not something he'll lose sleep about either way. He's come a long way from a 19 year old kid, just now sort of coming into his own these past couple seasons. People will rate him where they rate him, but at the end of the day he's had a pretty nice NBA career thus far.

Nah Tony is a boss like that. Lol. I meant when we do the rankings at the end of the season. It's something I'll be mulling over in my head in the days to come. I think there are at least 50 players who've played in the Nba were better at their peak/primes than him as well. However it's harder to argue that from career standpoint.

bullishsince87
05-28-2013, 11:58 PM
Tony parker was/is the best pg this season/postseason, but you can make alot of cases for other players as well like Rose, Cp3, Rondo, Curry, Westbrook for having the "best pg" title. I think people are just caught up in the moment right now.

JJ_JKidd
05-28-2013, 11:59 PM
People so soon forget how good derrick rose actually is. It's ok, his rise to stardom will be here once again soon enough.

That would be the day! Everyone misses the D Rose of old. Hope the return dont happen in 2014-2015 season lol.

waveycrockett
05-29-2013, 12:06 AM
I can't remember the last time somebody with a major impact on a Finals series that they won got this much dismissal. At the very least he's the 2nd best PG in the league.

Think about it? Could Melo, Iverson, McGrady, Carter, etc. ever win Finals MVP and then just fade away?

Think about it if Melo, Iverson, Mcgrady played with a top 5 player of all time and the best PF ever and the best coach of this generation would they have a good shot at a finals mvp? Probably yes.

harryharrison
05-29-2013, 12:14 AM
Think about it if Melo, Iverson, Mcgrady played with a top 5 player of all time and the best PF ever and the best coach of this generation would they have a good shot at a finals mvp? Probably yes.

Parker didn't win Finals MVP by playing bad.

Jarvo
05-29-2013, 12:18 AM
Oh now folks want to give parker his props because The Spurs are going back to The Finals smh only time Spurs players get props, Now people are seeing CP3 is overrated.

harryharrison
05-29-2013, 12:22 AM
Oh now folks want to give parker his props because The Spurs are going back to The Finals smh only time Spurs players get props, Now people are seeing CP3 is overrated.

This. The Spurs are only relevant for about a month during the year. It's during the Conference Finals, NBA Finals and then until the parade. Then everybody goes back to talking about how good McGrady was or how cool LeBron's jam was.

JJ_JKidd
05-29-2013, 12:25 AM
Oh now folks want to give parker his props because The Spurs are going back to The Finals smh only time Spurs players get props, Now people are seeing CP3 is overrated.

Not to mention the Blake Griffin best PF in the game talks that have now shifted along the lines of "Tim Duncan still the best PF...." Lol @ media as well for promoting the more entertaining (but unproven) and "fun to watch" Lob City against the boring but proven Spurs system.

meloman1592
05-29-2013, 12:28 AM
I'll still take chris paul, derrick rose and westbrook over him. His resume is great but I dont look at the win loss thing all the time. I just watch who has GAME and Parker isn't as good as those other guys to me

MR.TRIPDUB
05-29-2013, 12:39 AM
All i can say is that for a top point guard, cp3 teams have always been irrelevant in playoffs, which is BIG cause a point guard's duty is to lead the team. Is his leadership questionable?

xRipCity
05-29-2013, 01:00 AM
All i can say is that for a top point guard, cp3 teams have always been irrelevant in playoffs, which is BIG cause a point guard's duty is to lead the team. Is his leadership questionable?

Plausible, but I don't think his teams are built for the long haul.

krest213
05-29-2013, 01:25 AM
bout time my spurs. getting rec. and parker for sure.. don't forget MAnu

Chrisclover
05-29-2013, 03:05 AM
good point

He swept LeBron in the Finals on the way to his Finals MVP in 2007.

amos1er
05-29-2013, 03:07 AM
He is the most veteran savy pg for sure...but not the best...that would be CP3.

sunnyice
05-29-2013, 04:02 AM
He is the most veteran savy pg for sure...but not the best...that would be CP3.

I take Parker over CP3.

CP3 got swept by TP last year.

jerellh528
05-29-2013, 04:12 AM
All i can say is that for a top point guard, cp3 teams have always been irrelevant in playoffs, which is BIG cause a point guard's duty is to lead the team. Is his leadership questionable?

I've always read and heard that cp3 was an amazing leader. I think he has just had bad luck with teams or coaches.

kdspurman
05-29-2013, 08:30 AM
Nah Tony is a boss like that. Lol. I meant when we do the rankings at the end of the season. It's something I'll be mulling over in my head in the days to come. I think there are at least 50 players who've played in the Nba were better at their peak/primes than him as well. However it's harder to argue that from career standpoint.

Yea I mean the 50 greatest players list has some great players on it, and Tony is just now sort of coming into his own. I think if he can maintain this level of play for another 3-4 years, it'd really help his case in the big picture in terms of where he ranks.

But he's said before he doesn't care where people rank him, and he plays for fans & his teammates, etc... You know, the "Spur" thing to say lol

blams
05-29-2013, 08:33 AM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.

He swept LeBron in the Finals on the way to his Finals MVP in 2007.
That was the worst finals team in nba history. Lebron carried them.

3RDASYSTEM
05-29-2013, 09:05 AM
That was the worst finals team in nba history. Lebron carried them.

The 2nd worst

IVERSON easily had the worst offensive support cast,they both had team d scheme

xRipCity
05-29-2013, 09:21 AM
Yeah, I said earlier LeBron's next best player was probably the guy who played around and got a triple double with his mother

blams
05-29-2013, 09:40 AM
That was the worst finals team in nba history. Lebron carried them.

The 2nd worst

IVERSON easily had the worst offensive support cast,they both had team d scheme
No chance

Quinnsanity
05-29-2013, 09:44 AM
The thing about LeBron guarding TP in crunch time is that it's almost wasted since the Spurs can just as easily run their offense through Manu. Honestly I'd rather have LeBron roaming around creating turnovers.

xRipCity
05-29-2013, 10:04 AM
The thing about LeBron guarding TP in crunch time is that it's almost wasted since the Spurs can just as easily run their offense through Manu. Honestly I'd rather have LeBron roaming around creating turnovers.

The Heat can also play Battier or Cole extended minutes who are both defensive specialists.

People watched the Spurs dominate the Grizzlies (who can't shoot 3s), or defend Tony Parker.

Can we all go back to the series before? They almost got put out by the Warriors, really thanks to a Stephen Curry ankle turn, they moved on. A healthy David Lee would have also made that series interesting.

You can argue that the Warriors just matched up well with the Spurs, but come on seriously? LeBron is a solid 5 inches taller and 100 lbs heavier then Steph Curry and is running the offense.

The Heat have one of the best defenses and offenses. They have the best player by a longshot in our generation in LeBron. Ok so Leonard attempts to guard him. Who guards Wade? LeBron's drive and kick to their 3 point specialists has been key to their 49-6 record over the past 55, and the Spurs looked awful defending the 3 ball against the Warriors.

It will be a good series, but I think the Pacers, who don't even have Danny Granger, stand a better chance of knocking off the Heat. The combo of David West (who creats foul problems) and Hibbert is a real problem for the Heat. The Spurs only offer Tim Duncan (who is better then both those guys) in this situation. Paul George is more of an offensive threat then Leonard. Parker is much better then George Hill, no question, but Norris Cole/LeBron can do a decent job of quieting him down.

kdspurman
05-29-2013, 10:27 AM
The Heat can also play Battier or Cole extended minutes who are both defensive specialists.

People watched the Spurs dominate the Grizzlies (who can't shoot 3s), or defend Tony Parker.

Can we all go back to the series before? They almost got put out by the Warriors, really thanks to a Stephen Curry ankle turn, they moved on. A healthy David Lee would have also made that series interesting.

You can argue that the Warriors just matched up well with the Spurs, but come on seriously? LeBron is a solid 5 inches taller and 100 lbs heavier then Steph Curry and is running the offense.

The Heat have one of the best defenses and offenses. They have the best player by a longshot in our generation in LeBron. Ok so Leonard attempts to guard him. Who guards Wade? LeBron's drive and kick to their 3 point specialists has been key to their 49-6 record over the past 55, and the Spurs looked awful defending the 3 ball against the Warriors.

It will be a good series, but I think the Pacers, who don't even have Danny Granger, stand a better chance of knocking off the Heat. The combo of David West (who creats foul problems) and Hibbert is a real problem for the Heat. The Spurs only offer Tim Duncan (who is better then both those guys) in this situation. Paul George is more of an offensive threat then Leonard. Parker is much better then George Hill, no question, but Norris Cole/LeBron can do a decent job of quieting him down.

False...

Even before the ankle turn, Pop putting Kawhi on Klay and Green on Curry both made significant differences. The Grizz are a far better defensive team than Miami and Tony Allen though not as big, is a better perimeter defender than Lebron.

The Spurs looked bad defending the 3 in the first 2 games, but once they made their adjustments.... Well you can go look up the 3 point shooting for GS in games 3-6.

Danny Green will guard Wade, and the way Wade has looked as of late, it might not be too challenging.

The thing about the Spurs, their offense is so fluid, and unpredictable at times and hard to game plan against., because it's not based on 1 guy all the time, or iso ball. Miami, well obviously Lebron is a handful and when their shooters are on, they're impossible to defend.

But if it is Spurs/Heat, the way the Spurs/Pop have adjusted to these previous series and making them uncomfortable with what they want to do, they have a pretty good chance at having success.

I know Miami's offense was on of the best, but in this series? They haven't really looked good except for game 3. And you say Spurs only offer Duncan? 1 of Miami's biggest weakness when guarding the pick and roll is guarding the roll man. (it's been well documented throughout these playoffs) Tiago Splitter rolls to and finishes around the basket as well as anyone at his position.

You're watching the games, but you're not seeing what's happening.

Jarvo
05-29-2013, 10:47 AM
All I'm saying nobody want to hear it now giving props to The Spurs because IF they lose or how they lose people will take back their words, Parker been a Top 3 PG and one of the best players in The NBA but gets overshadow because Spurs arent "flashy" and label as "boring" but year in and year have a good record in the season and goes to the playoffs as in CP3 who is the "Best PG by far" gets bounced out the playoffs with a team with "more talent" never gets it done. So what does that say?

xRipCity
05-29-2013, 10:57 AM
False...

Even before the ankle turn, Pop putting Kawhi on Klay and Green on Curry both made significant differences. The Grizz are a far better defensive team than Miami and Tony Allen though not as big, is a better perimeter defender than Lebron.

The Spurs looked bad defending the 3 in the first 2 games, but once they made their adjustments.... Well you can go look up the 3 point shooting for GS in games 3-6.

Danny Green will guard Wade, and the way Wade has looked as of late, it might not be too challenging.

The thing about the Spurs, their offense is so fluid, and unpredictable at times and hard to game plan against., because it's not based on 1 guy all the time, or iso ball. Miami, well obviously Lebron is a handful and when their shooters are on, they're impossible to defend.

But if it is Spurs/Heat, the way the Spurs/Pop have adjusted to these previous series and making them uncomfortable with what they want to do, they have a pretty good chance at having success.

I know Miami's offense was on of the best, but in this series? They haven't really looked good except for game 3. And you say Spurs only offer Duncan? 1 of Miami's biggest weakness when guarding the pick and roll is guarding the roll man. (it's been well documented throughout these playoffs) Tiago Splitter rolls to and finishes around the basket as well as anyone at his position.

You're watching the games, but you're not seeing what's happening.

I was waiting for Kdspurman to debate my claims about the Spurs. This will be fun.

Yes Tony Allen is a better perimeter defender than LeBron. People undervalue length on defense though. Tony Allen is 6'4. LeBron can afford to go under a screen to catch up and contest, or contest three pointers.

I will agree that the way the Spurs switched their defensive roles with Golden State helped a ton. But you are looking at guys on Golden State who rely solely on taking jumpers and cannot out-muscle their defenders to get to the rim. Paul George and Leonard both roughly weigh 220, and LeBron weighs nearly 250, and because of the difference, you saw (an attempt) in game 4 and success in game 3 in the post for LeBron. What is the answer to that for the Spurs? How will they defend the drive and kick, and who can defend the shooting prowess of Chris Bosh, and even Haslem when he's on? And I'm just waiting for Ray Allen to start hitting the open ones.

The Heat are too much of a handful offensively because LeBron can beat his man at will, and create open shots for teammates. The Spurs are a good defensive team, but it is near impossible to stop these guys.

kdspurman
05-29-2013, 11:24 AM
I was waiting for Kdspurman to debate my claims about the Spurs. This will be fun.

Yes Tony Allen is a better perimeter defender than LeBron. People undervalue length on defense though. Tony Allen is 6'4. LeBron can afford to go under a screen to catch up and contest, or contest three pointers.

I will agree that the way the Spurs switched their defensive roles with Golden State helped a ton. But you are looking at guys on Golden State who rely solely on taking jumpers and cannot out-muscle their defenders to get to the rim. Paul George and Leonard both roughly weigh 220, and LeBron weighs nearly 250, and because of the difference, you saw (an attempt) in game 4 and success in game 3 in the post for LeBron. What is the answer to that for the Spurs? How will they defend the drive and kick, and who can defend the shooting prowess of Chris Bosh, and even Haslem when he's on? And I'm just waiting for Ray Allen to start hitting the open ones.

The Heat are too much of a handful offensively because LeBron can beat his man at will, and create open shots for teammates. The Spurs are a good defensive team, but it is near impossible to stop these guys.

I will say, Lebron will always have a mis match with just about anyone guarding him.

Unfortunately, it is a team game, and in a way, it might be better to let Lebron get his, and stop the other guys. I mean we've seen games where Lebron does great, but his teammates don't show up. So it really depends on what kind of game plan the Spurs would use. (they used a similar method against Amare against he Suns letting him go nuts and keeping everyone else in check) But that'd be up to the coaching staff. We've seen Miami struggle to win when Lebron goes off & no one else steps up. Wade hasn't looked like himself consistently, and Bosh has just been horrible. (13 rebounds in 4 games of the ECF for the starting center???) But, of course if they get going, it's a different story.

I will say, the problems you are describing for the Spurs, you could say the same for Miami. The Spurs have the same kind of sharp shooters Miami does. The same drive and kick problems you see us defending, are the same problems teams have when dealing with Parker. Now he obviously doesn't have the size Lebron does, but he gets in the paint at will. (Spurs lead the league in assist per game, they move the ball better than any team) Miami gets bailed out by so many teams for not moving the ball or making them work enough defensively. Teams start rushing and trying to play into Miami's kind of game. I don't think the Spurs would fall into that trap.

Another thing you might be overlooking, the Spurs starting 5 ranked as the best defensive unit in the league for most of the regular season (they only played 31 games together). They are very good, and very disciplined.

I think it's fair to say, both teams will have trouble guarding each other. The Heat (if they advance) have not seen a team as disciplined as the Spurs or a team that moves the ball like them, or dealing with spot up shooters. Not to mention the fact that this would be a favorable matchup for Duncan to do work in the post after not having much success there yet with some of the matchups he's seen.

For the Spurs, they haven't played anyone with Lebron's athleticism, and the Heat's ability to get out and run and try and really disrupt the Spurs offense. (Miami tends to gamble a lot defensively, and it works many times) Nor have they had to be concerned with the spot up shooters the Heat have.

In essence, these 2 teams are pretty similar. The big difference is Miami is a little more predictable in the half court set (& just cause they're predictable doesn't mean it can be stopped) than the Spurs, & the Spurs are better defensively this post season.

xRipCity
05-29-2013, 11:32 AM
I will say, Lebron will always have a mis match with just about anyone guarding him.

Unfortunately, it is a team game, and in a way, it might be better to let Lebron get his, and stop the other guys. I mean we've seen games where Lebron does great, but his teammates don't show up. So it really depends on what kind of game plan the Spurs would use. (they used a similar method against Amare against he Suns letting him go nuts and keeping everyone else in check) But that'd be up to the coaching staff. We've seen Miami struggle to win when Lebron goes off & no one else steps up. Wade hasn't looked like himself consistently, and Bosh has just been horrible. (13 rebounds in 4 games of the ECF for the starting center???) But, of course if they get going, it's a different story.

I will say, the problems you are describing for the Spurs, you could say the same for Miami. The Spurs have the same kind of sharp shooters Miami does. The same drive and kick problems you see us defending, are the same problems teams have when dealing with Parker. Now he obviously doesn't have the size Lebron does, but he gets in the paint at will. (Spurs lead the league in assist per game, they move the ball better than any team) Miami gets bailed out by so many teams for not moving the ball or making them work enough defensively. Teams start rushing and trying to play into Miami's kind of game. I don't think the Spurs would fall into that trap.

Another thing you might be overlooking, the Spurs starting 5 ranked as the best defensive unit in the league for most of the regular season (they only played 31 games together). They are very good, and very disciplined.

I think it's fair to say, both teams will have trouble guarding each other. The Heat (if they advance) have not seen a team as disciplined as the Spurs or a team that moves the ball like them, or dealing with spot up shooters. Not to mention the fact that this would be a favorable matchup for Duncan to do work in the post after not having much success there yet with some of the matchups he's seen.

For the Spurs, they haven't played anyone with Lebron's athleticism, and the Heat's ability to get out and run and try and really disrupt the Spurs offense. (Miami tends to gamble a lot defensively, and it works many times) Nor have they had to be concerned with the spot up shooters the Heat have.

In essence, these 2 teams are pretty similar. The big difference is Miami is a little more predictable in the half court set (& just cause they're predictable doesn't mean it can be stopped) than the Spurs, & the Spurs are better defensively this post season.

I agree with the teams being similar. I'd still give a slight edge to the Heat, because of personnel, but you can't doubt the powers of Popovich.

I'm going to stand by the Heat winning in 6 or 7, which is probably the general consesus; regardless it will be a great series and a fun one to watch. If anything what the Pacers have done should be promising for the Spurs.

And I'm sure the Spurs are hoping it goes 7 so they get a fatigued team

kdspurman
05-29-2013, 11:46 AM
I agree with the teams being similar. I'd still give a slight edge to the Heat, because of personnel, but you can't doubt the powers of Popovich.

I'm going to stand by the Heat winning in 6 or 7, which is probably the general consesus; regardless it will be a great series and a fun one to watch. If anything what the Pacers have done should be promising for the Spurs.

And I'm sure the Spurs are hoping it goes 7 so they get a fatigued team

Oh yea, I think Miami would be and should be the favorites if they advance, I just don't think it's like an overwhelming favorite scenario.

If it goes 7, it could mean Miami is fatigued, or in rhythm. The whole rust vs rest theory. But I know for sure one guy who could use the rest is D-Wade...

Can't discount Indy though, I know everyone is sort of getting caught up in a potential Miami/San Antonio finals. Indy has a legitimate shot to win.

Swashcuff
05-29-2013, 12:08 PM
All I'm saying nobody want to hear it now giving props to The Spurs because IF they lose or how they lose people will take back their words, Parker been a Top 3 PG and one of the best players in The NBA but gets overshadow because Spurs arent "flashy" and label as "boring" but year in and year have a good record in the season and goes to the playoffs as in CP3 who is the "Best PG by far" gets bounced out the playoffs with a team with "more talent" never gets it done. So what does that say?

Tell me something. You place Tony Parker in Paul's shoes how far does he take his teams? Does he make Blake Griffin healthy? Does he make his coach competent? Does he make Jamal Crawford not play like a pansie? What does he do? Don't forget that in the NBA talent doesn't equate to production. Blake has all the talent in the world if he doesn't get on the floor do you really expect CP3 to beat teams on his own?

Seriously answer me the simple question. Tony Parker in Chris Paul's shoes, how far does he get you?

ManRam
05-29-2013, 12:23 PM
thats really all that matters for superstars. Melo gets ripped for it why cant Paul?

i don't rip melo because of team success.

i rip him because of his flaws and his one-dimensional game.


plus, CP3 performs AMAZINGLY in the playoffs. Melo, not so much.

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 03:59 PM
All i can say is that for a top point guard, cp3 teams have always been irrelevant in playoffs, which is BIG cause a point guard's duty is to lead the team. Is his leadership questionable?

If you had to point to one player/reason that the Clippers lost this year, you really think Cp3 was the best answer?


I take Parker over CP3.

CP3 got swept by TP last year.

I guess Mike Conley was better than TP when the Grizz swept the Spurs? As an 8th seed no less.


Yea I mean the 50 greatest players list has some great players on it, and Tony is just now sort of coming into his own. I think if he can maintain this level of play for another 3-4 years, it'd really help his case in the big picture in terms of where he ranks.

But he's said before he doesn't care where people rank him, and he plays for fans & his teammates, etc... You know, the "Spur" thing to say lol

As he should. But it'll be a fun debate when the polls come around. Lol


The 2nd worst

IVERSON easily had the worst offensive support cast,they both had team d scheme

Except the Sixers played better D.


False...

Even before the ankle turn, Pop putting Kawhi on Klay and Green on Curry both made significant differences. The Grizz are a far better defensive team than Miami and Tony Allen though not as big, is a better perimeter defender than Lebron.

The Spurs looked bad defending the 3 in the first 2 games, but once they made their adjustments.... Well you can go look up the 3 point shooting for GS in games 3-6.

Danny Green will guard Wade, and the way Wade has looked as of late, it might not be too challenging.

The thing about the Spurs, their offense is so fluid, and unpredictable at times and hard to game plan against., because it's not based on 1 guy all the time, or iso ball. Miami, well obviously Lebron is a handful and when their shooters are on, they're impossible to defend.

But if it is Spurs/Heat, the way the Spurs/Pop have adjusted to these previous series and making them uncomfortable with what they want to do, they have a pretty good chance at having success.

I know Miami's offense was on of the best, but in this series? They haven't really looked good except for game 3. And you say Spurs only offer Duncan? 1 of Miami's biggest weakness when guarding the pick and roll is guarding the roll man. (it's been well documented throughout these playoffs) Tiago Splitter rolls to and finishes around the basket as well as anyone at his position.

You're watching the games, but you're not seeing what's happening.

Tony is a better perimeter defender than Bron, but Bron is better overall (at least when he's fully engaged). That being said, it looks like Bron is going to have to pull out some inhumane efforts to get pass the Pacers, and with Dwade playing like Joe Johnson, I don't think the Heat are going to feature him on Tony that much.

2-ONE-5
05-29-2013, 04:02 PM
i don't rip melo because of team success.

i rip him because of his flaws and his one-dimensional game.


plus, CP3 performs AMAZINGLY in the playoffs. Melo, not so much.

so amazing they were swept by the Spurs last year and out in the 1st this year

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 04:06 PM
All I'm saying nobody want to hear it now giving props to The Spurs because IF they lose or how they lose people will take back their words, Parker been a Top 3 PG and one of the best players in The NBA but gets overshadow because Spurs arent "flashy" and label as "boring" but year in and year have a good record in the season and goes to the playoffs as in CP3 who is the "Best PG by far" gets bounced out the playoffs with a team with "more talent" never gets it done. So what does that say?

Paul and Tony aside, you actually think that:

Willie Green, Chauncey, Jamal Crawford, Caron Butler, Barners and Bledsoe are a better supporting cast than Leonard, Danny Green, Manu, Neal, Patty, Borner, Diaw? and let's not even talk about the Big men, the coaching advantage, chemistry, and intangible value.

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 04:07 PM
so amazing they were swept by the Spurs last year and out in the 1st this year

Exactly. The Clippers were swept.

MR.TRIPDUB
05-29-2013, 09:43 PM
If you had to point to one player/reason that the Clippers lost this year, you really think Cp3 was the best answer?.

You're right i should blame all those other players, coaches in every team he played for.

I'm sick of these cp3 excuses. If you're a top 3 player, then WIN! At least be relevant.
Stockton, kidd, payton, just on the top of my head who were top pgs who make their team better. With cp3 the only one who seems to get better is himself and make his teamates look mediocre. Those guys aren't even top 5 talent.

harryharrison
05-29-2013, 09:54 PM
You're right i should blame all those other players, coaches in every team he played for.

I'm sick of these cp3 excuses. If you're a top 3 player, then WIN! At least be relevant.
Stockton, kidd, payton, just on the top of my head who were top pgs who make their team better. With cp3 the only one who seems to get better is himself and make his teamates look mediocre. Those guys aren't even top 5 talent.

Exactly. If CP3 is such a traditional and pure PG why do his teammates get all the blame. His job is to make everybody better. He's not supposed to be the star. He doesn't play combo guard.

He's a PG. People overrate him so much. He brings the ball up the court and can pass. Yay. He's 5'11"

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 09:58 PM
You're right i should blame all those other players, coaches in every team he played for.

Lmao you're acting as if he ever had a roster to do such damage. Coach? The best coach he's had since being in the Nba was Byron Scott.


I'm sick of these cp3 excuses. If you're a top 3 player, then WIN! At least be relevant.


That's like saying someone isn't allowed to be excused from reaching to work late if there was a flash flood. You're ignoring circumstances.


Stockton, kidd, payton, just on the top of my head who were top pgs who make their team better. With cp3 the only one who seems to get better is himself and make his teamates look mediocre. Those guys aren't even top 5 talent.

Cp3 aside, compare those rosters and come back to me.

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 09:59 PM
Exactly. If CP3 is such a traditional and pure PG why do his teammates get all the blame. His job is to make everybody better. He's not supposed to be the star. He doesn't play combo guard.

He's a PG. People overrate him so much. He brings the ball up the court and can pass. Yay. He's 5'11"

All this said and he's still better than Tony. Sucks huh?

harryharrison
05-29-2013, 10:02 PM
All this said and he's still better than Tony. Sucks huh?

He's not better than Tony. Parker MAKES Tiago Splitter. Why is Bonner open for 3's? Why is Duncan open for mid range jumpers? Why do Duncan and Splitter get lost on screens?

It's all because of Parker.

Jarvo
05-29-2013, 10:05 PM
Tell me something. You place Tony Parker in Paul's shoes how far does he take his teams? Does he make Blake Griffin healthy? Does he make his coach competent? Does he make Jamal Crawford not play like a pansie? What does he do? Don't forget that in the NBA talent doesn't equate to production. Blake has all the talent in the world if he doesn't get on the floor do you really expect CP3 to beat teams on his own?

Seriously answer me the simple question. Tony Parker in Chris Paul's shoes, how far does he get you?

I don't think CP3 is a leader, And Parker would take that team atleast pass the 1st round.

Jarvo
05-29-2013, 10:07 PM
Paul and Tony aside, you actually think that:

Willie Green, Chauncey, Jamal Crawford, Caron Butler, Barners and Bledsoe are a better supporting cast than Leonard, Danny Green, Manu, Neal, Patty, Borner, Diaw? and let's not even talk about the Big men, the coaching advantage, chemistry, and intangible value.

Well alot of people make him up to be so damn good he could make them better right? Hell Parker makes Spiltter looks good.

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 10:08 PM
He's not better than Tony. Parker MAKES Tiago Splitter. Why is Bonner open for 3's? Why is Duncan open for mid range jumpers? Why do Duncan and Splitter get lost on screens?

It's all because of Parker.

Because Pop is a genius. His systems (notice there's an "S" there to denote plural) have been able to consistently produce results long before Tony came into his own. The constant wasn't Duncan's, Manu's or Tony's dominance, it's Pop.

b@llhog24
05-29-2013, 10:09 PM
Well alot of people make him up to be so damn good he could make them better right? Hell Parker makes Spiltter looks good.

Except I asked who YOU thought had the superior roster support. People think that Timmy isn't even top 10, do you?

harryharrison
05-29-2013, 10:13 PM
Because Pop is a genius. His systems (notice there's an "S" there to denote plural) have been able to consistently produce results long before Tony came into his own. The constant wasn't Duncan's, Manu's or Tony's dominance, it's Pop.

The coach doesn't play.

ARMIN12NBA
05-29-2013, 11:01 PM
Parker really has one of the more fully polished and multifaceted offensive repertoires of any player in the league. He has incredible awareness, which makes his decision-making so potent on dribble-drives and just orchestrating the offensive attack from the top. Except for his mediocre and inconsistent three point shot, he truly has everything offensively from great footwork, high intelligence, very good midrange, and penetration with highly effective finishing abilities.

Jarvo
05-29-2013, 11:25 PM
Except I asked who YOU thought had the superior roster support. People think that Timmy isn't even top 10, do you?

He's top 10 but how people hold Paul so high he should be able to pull his team far and he doesnt people rag on Melo all the time but Paul gets a pass, Nah.

b@llhog24
05-30-2013, 12:04 AM
The coach doesn't play.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/3/30/You_don't_say.png


He's top 10 but how people hold Paul so high he should be able to pull his team far and he doesnt people rag on Melo all the time but Paul gets a pass, Nah.

Melo gets ripped because of Knick fans and because he himself plays bad when the lights are brightest. It's like blaming Duncan for losing in 02 when his supporting cast is the ones who underperformed.

Snapshot
05-30-2013, 01:46 AM
I wanna address all this hyporcritical nonsense I been reading this whole thread...1st off how is it that the Spurs success is due to Coach Pops brilliance, yet when they have come up short the past 6 years, a few in which they had the best rec in the west/league and were the favs, he doesnt get any blame, it then turns into they were too "old" and ran out of steam? Obvisously he's a great coach but come on and lets give some of the players credit, specifically this year, TP...he has been phenomenal and is the main reason why the Spurs are in the position they are in this year..not Pop, its only so much he can do from the sidelines.

As for the dubious distinction that CP3 is the best PG in the league...lies. He hasnt been that since the 08' season tbh...he's been consistently top 3 since then but never the best. In my mind he's the Carmelo of PG's, sure he'll take u to the PO's and lead u to a 50 win season but with him at the helm ur destined for failure, regardless of who u put around him. His game just doesnt make for winning basketball, and 2 of the 5 years he made the PO's he didnt show up, 09' he took the most abuse ive ever witnessed a superstar take when he had an old Chancey Billups make a mockery of him and was ousted in 5, and lead his team to get blown out by 50 in one of the games lmao. Didnt show up again in 12' either tbh.

If he's the best PG as many claim he has to win, period...LB was better than Kobe for a number of years but wasnt giving the edge due to him not getting it done when it counted, and had to settle for being viewed as the 2nd best player in the NBA even tho his "stats" said he was the best, well CP3 is no diff in this case, until he wins he'll never be hands down the best PG in the league regardless of what his stats say.

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 09:14 AM
I don't think CP3 is a leader, And Parker would take that team atleast pass the 1st round.

But yet the coaches see him as the best leader in the NBA. :shrug:

Now tell me who's opinion should I take some dude who can formulate an argument as to what makes Parker a better basketball player than Paul or the coaches in the NBA?

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 09:21 AM
I have a question for all those saying that Parker is better because his team wins more than Pauls, if the Clippers some how pick up Iggy and Dwight Howard in the off season and win it all with Paul as their 2nd best player (Dwight being 1st) but Tony Parker has a career year averaging 26 and 8 and wins MVP but gets knocked out in the first round due to Duncan being injured who would you think is the better player?

Becks2307
05-30-2013, 10:32 AM
All this Chris Paul talk is good and everything, but when you think about how he is ranked, its ridiculous he hasn't done better.

Steve Nash took his teams further (more consistently) than Chris Paul did, with an inferior roster in some cases.

Kidd, Payton, Thomas, Stockton all lead their teams to the finals. CP3 has to get there.

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 10:46 AM
All this Chris Paul talk is good and everything, but when you think about how he is ranked, its ridiculous he hasn't done better.

Steve Nash took his teams further (more consistently) than Chris Paul did, with an inferior roster in some cases.

Kidd, Payton, Thomas, Stockton all lead their teams to the finals. CP3 has to get there.

What cases? Nash played with Dirk, Amare, Joe Johnson, Finley and Marion. Every single season he has gotten out of the first round he had a healthy all star on his roster.

The year he had Blake healthy he made it to the second to get beaten by the better coached team, the next year he got out he lost to the Spurs in 7 when Duncan was still hands down the best two way PF and Manu was arguably their 2nd best player still.

Idiots are running around this thread saying Paul never got out of the first round and he never did anything of relevance but how can you do that when your teammates are lacking? He made West a better player, he made that Peja a better player, he made Tyson Chandler (Chandler always credits Paul for him understanding offense way better than he ever did) and he was the engine that took his team forward. Who has Parker made better, Parker isn't the passer Paul is, isn't the shooter he isn't, isn't the defender he is, isn't the rebounder he is, isn't the ball handler he is, isn't the leader he is etc etc etc but his TEAM is a better team so that's all that matters and he's better. I don't get it.

No one in this entire thread has been able to say what Parker does to make him the by PG in the NBA, all they're saying is what his team has done. By that notion Manu is better than Harden this season right?

Jarvo
05-30-2013, 10:47 AM
But yet the coaches see him as the best leader in the NBA. :shrug:

Now tell me who's opinion should I take some dude who can formulate an argument as to what makes Parker a better basketball player than Paul or the coaches in the NBA?

I mean you can take the coaches opinion but it doesnt mean I'm wrong if he was such a good leader he would've helped pulled his team out the 1st rounf and wouldnt have such a big ego. I just think be's overrated jist by how folks talk about him on here.

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 10:55 AM
I mean you can take the coaches opinion but it doesnt mean I'm wrong if he was such a good leader he would've helped pulled his team out the 1st rounf and wouldnt have such a big ego. I just think be's overrated jist by how folks talk about him on here.

Jordan is seen as the greatest leader ever by many, he had the without question the biggest ego ever. :shrug: Having an ego is a good thing for some star players.

You're right it doesn't mean you're wrong because that's your opinion but it also doesn't make you right in any way shape or form. The ones who actually interact with a player and know much more about the game than we do says something don't you think that would be more telling?

Paul has gotten out of the first round. TWICE. Where has Tony ever pulled his team? He won FMVP in a Finals where Duncan was in cruise control. He was seen his team's 2nd/3rd best player that year and damn near every year since he's come into his own. He has never been asked to shoulder the type of load that Paul has and based on his skill set doesn't show the ability to do so either (never known as the type of player to make those around him better while Paul is known as the best in the business in that regard especially with the decline of Steve Nash).

All I am asking is what skills, ability, evidence does Parker possess that makes him a better basketball player than Paul? Because he's a winner. Manu is a bigger winner that doesn't make him better than Harden right now.

Jarvo
05-30-2013, 10:56 AM
What cases? Nash played with Dirk, Amare, Joe Johnson, Finley and Marion. Every single season he has gotten out of the first round he had a healthy all star on his roster.

The year he had Blake healthy he made it to the second to get beaten by the better coached team, the next year he got out he lost to the Spurs in 7 when Duncan was still hands down the best two way PF and Manu was arguably their 2nd best player still.

Idiots are running around this thread saying Paul never got out of the first round and he never did anything of relevance but how can you do that when your teammates are lacking? He made West a better player, he made that Peja a better player, he made Tyson Chandler (Chandler always credits Paul for him understanding offense way better than he ever did) and he was the engine that took his team forward. Who has Parker made better, Parker isn't the passer Paul is, isn't the shooter he isn't, isn't the defender he is, isn't the rebounder he is, isn't the ball handler he is, isn't the leader he is etc etc etc but his TEAM is a better team so that's all that matters and he's better. I don't get it.

No one in this entire thread has been able to say what Parker does to make him the by PG in the NBA, all they're saying is what his team has done. By that notion Manu is better than Harden this season right?


We know he got out the 1st round before but cmon he is overrated by saying he 's the best PG and no ones close, Not saying you said it but alot of folks on here say it.

d00d
05-30-2013, 10:57 AM
He's a great player who thrives in an even better system. Wouldn't say he's the best.

Wait till LeBron guards him in the finals.

Heat will lose in 6 to pacers

Jarvo
05-30-2013, 11:00 AM
Jordan is seen as the greatest leader ever by many, he had the without question the biggest ego ever. :shrug: Having an ego is a good thing for some star players.

You're right it doesn't mean you're wrong because that's your opinion but it also doesn't make you right in any way shape or form. The ones who actually interact with a player and know much more about the game than we do says something don't you think that would be more telling?

Paul has gotten out of the first round. TWICE. Where has Tony ever pulled his team? He won FMVP in a Finals where Duncan was in cruise control. He was seen his team's 2nd/3rd best player that year and damn near every year since he's come into his own. He has never been asked to shoulder the type of load that Paul has and based on his skill set doesn't show the ability to do so either (never known as the type of player to make those around him better while Paul is known as the best in the business in that regard especially with the decline of Steve Nash).

All I am asking is what skills, ability, evidence does Parker possess that makes him a better basketball player than Paul? Because he's a winner. Manu is a bigger winner that doesn't make him better than Harden right now.

He's a leader and make people around him better, Yes Paul is a better shooter but calling out Blake saying he's soft??? Even though he is you just dont comeout amd say that & I don't think he deserves to act like a diva with an ego thay big. MJ and Paul are wayyyy different.

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 11:11 AM
Kidd,

Clippers vs the Early 00s East? The only team that stops them from making it to the finals TBH would be A.I.'s 76ers because of their D. I mean seriously where is the context do you really think that Clippers team can't beat those East teams in those years?


Payton,

Best example of them all.

First time Payton lead his team to the finals was at the age of 27. How old is Chris Paul now? 27. Difference Payton has Kemp, Schrempf, Hawkins and Sam Perkins all healthy and producing. Who did Paul have this year? Jamal Crawford and Matt Barnes, Blake came into the playoffs hurt and got even worse during the series. None of the guys you mentioned to could take that team to the finals. Hell PEAK LeBron couldn't do that out West. None of those guys you mentioned would even get the Clippers out of the first round against that Memphis team.


Thomas,

Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Vinnie Johnson, Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn. End of discussion.


Stockton all lead their teams to the finals. CP3 has to get there.

If by lead you mean Stockton brought the ball up the floor then yeah he surely lead the Jazz but in terms of being the teams best player and carrying them anywhere, that distinction belonged to Karl Malone. By the way how old was Stockton by the time he made it to the finals? He was 34 and WAY past his prime. Hornacek and Malone was shouldering the scoring load while Stockton PnRed the hell out of the basketball.

So really are you going to say that Stockton that was much better because he lead his team to the finals when he was 7 years Paul's senior the first time he got there and he wasn't even his team's 2nd option on offense? Paul has always been his teams #1 option on offense in the post season during his prime. None of the other PGs we're speaking of here outside of Isiah can say that. Not Parker, Nash, Payton, Stockton, etc

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 11:16 AM
He's a leader and make people around him better, Yes Paul is a better shooter but calling out Blake saying he's soft??? Even though he is you just dont comeout amd say that & I don't think he deserves to act like a diva with an ego thay big. MJ and Paul are wayyyy different.

Didn't Kobe call out Pau? Does that make Kobe less of a leader? Chris Paul is the type of person that wants to win at ALL costs and this is a man's league if you can't take criticism from your own then get out. Of course Paul and MJ are way different but you said leaders don't have ego but Jordan had the greatest ego of them all so essentially that's a moot point.

You do realize you are YET to say what makes Parker a better basketball player than Paul and you keep dodging it every time I ask you. Any reason for that?

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 11:17 AM
We know he got out the 1st round before but cmon he is overrated by saying he 's the best PG and no ones close, Not saying you said it but alot of folks on here say it.

Do you think Tony Parker is overrated as well? Because at least 4 people in this thread have said that he's the best PG and no one else is close but that doesn't seem to rub you the wrong way. Double standard much?

2-ONE-5
05-30-2013, 11:22 AM
damn theres a lot of excuses being made for Paul in here

Swashcuff
05-30-2013, 11:27 AM
damn theres a lot of excuses being made for Paul in here

And yet you can't provide a reason as to why Parker is better. His team is better? That's an excuse as well since he is seldom even the best player on his team and in some cases wasn't even the 2nd best.

What does Parker do that makes him better than Paul? Win. Wow what great, holistic reasoning that really tells you all you need to know about a player's ability, skill and production doesn't it.

Jarvo
05-30-2013, 12:36 PM
Didn't Kobe call out Pau? Does that make Kobe less of a leader? Chris Paul is the type of person that wants to win at ALL costs and this is a man's league if you can't take criticism from your own then get out. Of course Paul and MJ are way different but you said leaders don't have ego but Jordan had the greatest ego of them all so essentially that's a moot point.

You do realize you are YET to say what makes Parker a better basketball player than Paul and you keep dodging it every time I ask you. Any reason for that?


I just said he's far better as a leader and he shows up big when the Spurs need a W and I don't think Parker is the beat PG I'm a Spurs fan but still think Rondo is the best, CP3 just falls to number 3 behind him and Parker has to show me more.

harryharrison
05-30-2013, 01:27 PM
Parker has more impact on the game than Paul. That's why he is better.

b@llhog24
05-30-2013, 04:17 PM
What cases? Nash played with Dirk, Amare, Joe Johnson, Finley and Marion. Every single season he has gotten out of the first round he had a healthy all star on his roster.

The year he had Blake healthy he made it to the second to get beaten by the better coached team, the next year he got out he lost to the Spurs in 7 when Duncan was still hands down the best two way PF and Manu was arguably their 2nd best player still.

Idiots are running around this thread saying Paul never got out of the first round and he never did anything of relevance but how can you do that when your teammates are lacking? He made West a better player, he made that Peja a better player, he made Tyson Chandler (Chandler always credits Paul for him understanding offense way better than he ever did) and he was the engine that took his team forward. Who has Parker made better, Parker isn't the passer Paul is, isn't the shooter he isn't, isn't the defender he is, isn't the rebounder he is, isn't the ball handler he is, isn't the leader he is etc etc etc but his TEAM is a better team so that's all that matters and he's better. I don't get it.

No one in this entire thread has been able to say what Parker does to make him the by PG in the NBA, all they're saying is what his team has done. By that notion Manu is better than Harden this season right?


Jordan is seen as the greatest leader ever by many, he had the without question the biggest ego ever. :shrug: Having an ego is a good thing for some star players.

You're right it doesn't mean you're wrong because that's your opinion but it also doesn't make you right in any way shape or form. The ones who actually interact with a player and know much more about the game than we do says something don't you think that would be more telling?

Paul has gotten out of the first round. TWICE. Where has Tony ever pulled his team? He won FMVP in a Finals where Duncan was in cruise control. He was seen his team's 2nd/3rd best player that year and damn near every year since he's come into his own. He has never been asked to shoulder the type of load that Paul has and based on his skill set doesn't show the ability to do so either (never known as the type of player to make those around him better while Paul is known as the best in the business in that regard especially with the decline of Steve Nash).

All I am asking is what skills, ability, evidence does Parker possess that makes him a better basketball player than Paul? Because he's a winner. Manu is a bigger winner that doesn't make him better than Harden right now.


Clippers vs the Early 00s East? The only team that stops them from making it to the finals TBH would be A.I.'s 76ers because of their D. I mean seriously where is the context do you really think that Clippers team can't beat those East teams in those years?



Best example of them all.

First time Payton lead his team to the finals was at the age of 27. How old is Chris Paul now? 27. Difference Payton has Kemp, Schrempf, Hawkins and Sam Perkins all healthy and producing. Who did Paul have this year? Jamal Crawford and Matt Barnes, Blake came into the playoffs hurt and got even worse during the series. None of the guys you mentioned to could take that team to the finals. Hell PEAK LeBron couldn't do that out West. None of those guys you mentioned would even get the Clippers out of the first round against that Memphis team.



Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Vinnie Johnson, Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn. End of discussion.



If by lead you mean Stockton brought the ball up the floor then yeah he surely lead the Jazz but in terms of being the teams best player and carrying them anywhere, that distinction belonged to Karl Malone. By the way how old was Stockton by the time he made it to the finals? He was 34 and WAY past his prime. Hornacek and Malone was shouldering the scoring load while Stockton PnRed the hell out of the basketball.

So really are you going to say that Stockton that was much better because he lead his team to the finals when he was 7 years Paul's senior the first time he got there and he wasn't even his team's 2nd option on offense? Paul has always been his teams #1 option on offense in the post season during his prime. None of the other PGs we're speaking of here outside of Isiah can say that. Not Parker, Nash, Payton, Stockton, etc


Didn't Kobe call out Pau? Does that make Kobe less of a leader? Chris Paul is the type of person that wants to win at ALL costs and this is a man's league if you can't take criticism from your own then get out. Of course Paul and MJ are way different but you said leaders don't have ego but Jordan had the greatest ego of them all so essentially that's a moot point.

You do realize you are YET to say what makes Parker a better basketball player than Paul and you keep dodging it every time I ask you. Any reason for that?


Do you think Tony Parker is overrated as well? Because at least 4 people in this thread have said that he's the best PG and no one else is close but that doesn't seem to rub you the wrong way. Double standard much?


And yet you can't provide a reason as to why Parker is better. His team is better? That's an excuse as well since he is seldom even the best player on his team and in some cases wasn't even the 2nd best.

What does Parker do that makes him better than Paul? Win. Wow what great, holistic reasoning that really tells you all you need to know about a player's ability, skill and production doesn't it.

:burn: Swash went HAM in this thread. Lol

SportsFanatic10
05-30-2013, 06:37 PM
without reading through this thread, i'm sure the people thinking parker is the best are just prisoners of the moment. he is great though and one of the best but i think it's pretty clear he's not better than paul or westbrook and rose for that matter.

kdspurman
05-30-2013, 07:15 PM
without reading through this thread, i'm sure the people thinking parker is the best are just prisoners of the moment. he is great though and one of the best but i think it's pretty clear he's not better than paul or westbrook and rose for that matter.

I understand Paul, but I think there is a legit argument for him over Westbrook and Rose.

But I agree, I think people get caught up in what's happening. The other side of that is, before his injury late in the season, he was playing at a very high level, so what he's doing now with more eyes on him, people are starting to see what he can do.

Overall, I wish that weren't the case and we can just enjoy and appreciate what he's doing. But that's the world we live in. After every playoff game, everything is made into a big deal and magnified so much that sometimes it's hard to just appreciate what's actually happening without comparing players, or rating teams, etc...

Snapshot
05-30-2013, 07:24 PM
What cases? Nash played with Dirk, Amare, Joe Johnson, Finley and Marion. Every single season he has gotten out of the first round he had a healthy all star on his roster.

The year he had Blake healthy he made it to the second to get beaten by the better coached team, the next year he got out he lost to the Spurs in 7 when Duncan was still hands down the best two way PF and Manu was arguably their 2nd best player still.

Idiots are running around this thread saying Paul never got out of the first round and he never did anything of relevance but how can you do that when your teammates are lacking? He made West a better player, he made that Peja a better player, he made Tyson Chandler (Chandler always credits Paul for him understanding offense way better than he ever did) and he was the engine that took his team forward. Who has Parker made better, Parker isn't the passer Paul is, isn't the shooter he isn't, isn't the defender he is, isn't the rebounder he is, isn't the ball handler he is, isn't the leader he is etc etc etc but his TEAM is a better team so that's all that matters and he's better. I don't get it.

No one in this entire thread has been able to say what Parker does to make him the by PG in the NBA, all they're saying is what his team has done. By that notion Manu is better than Harden this season right?

U just dont know how stupid u sound do u? U 1st say his teammates are "lacking", but then u go on to name ALL STAR teammates he has played with...hilarious. Now the real funny thing is u say he made his teammates better, but ironically their best years were w/o him as their floor leader, it was with someone else, with the exception of maybe West, and even then the only reason he scored more with Paul was bcuz he had a bigger offensive role and took more shots, his FG% has basically stayed the same since leaving NOH.

CP3 played with an ALL STAR/ALL NBA TEAM PF, a sixth MOY candidate, and a bunch of savvy veterans yet couldnt even get em past the Grizz with HCA...to show u how much he sucks as a leader, Curry, w/o his lone ALL STAR and 2nd best player led his team past a 3rd seed, alll the while not having HCA, and gave the Spurs wayyyy more comp than the Grizz did (the team that made mintz meat of CP3's team)....its pretty sad tbh.

MR.TRIPDUB
05-30-2013, 09:08 PM
Lmao you're acting as if he ever had a roster to do such damage. Coach? The best coach he's had since being in the Nba was Byron Scott.



That's like saying someone isn't allowed to be excused from reaching to work late if there was a flash flood. You're ignoring circumstances.



Cp3 aside, compare those rosters and come back to me.

For what, so you can make more excuses? I told you, im sick of it.

But for the record i do think he is the most talented pg today but overated as a basketball player.

Super.
05-30-2013, 11:14 PM
CP3 is still better.

Parker has a far superior supporting cast and better coach

Becks2307
05-30-2013, 11:30 PM
Clippers vs the Early 00s East? The only team that stops them from making it to the finals TBH would be A.I.'s 76ers because of their D. I mean seriously where is the context do you really think that Clippers team can't beat those East teams in those years?



Best example of them all.

First time Payton lead his team to the finals was at the age of 27. How old is Chris Paul now? 27. Difference Payton has Kemp, Schrempf, Hawkins and Sam Perkins all healthy and producing. Who did Paul have this year? Jamal Crawford and Matt Barnes, Blake came into the playoffs hurt and got even worse during the series. None of the guys you mentioned to could take that team to the finals. Hell PEAK LeBron couldn't do that out West. None of those guys you mentioned would even get the Clippers out of the first round against that Memphis team.



Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Vinnie Johnson, Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn. End of discussion.



If by lead you mean Stockton brought the ball up the floor then yeah he surely lead the Jazz but in terms of being the teams best player and carrying them anywhere, that distinction belonged to Karl Malone. By the way how old was Stockton by the time he made it to the finals? He was 34 and WAY past his prime. Hornacek and Malone was shouldering the scoring load while Stockton PnRed the hell out of the basketball.

So really are you going to say that Stockton that was much better because he lead his team to the finals when he was 7 years Paul's senior the first time he got there and he wasn't even his team's 2nd option on offense? Paul has always been his teams #1 option on offense in the post season during his prime. None of the other PGs we're speaking of here outside of Isiah can say that. Not Parker, Nash, Payton, Stockton, etc

Just to show you the logic here:

Isn't it odd that ALL of these hall of famers have been able to do it, yet Cp3 (for whatever reason) can't?
Look at how you justified all of their finals appearances, so is Cp3 just a coincidence? thats a bit too convenient for me. Granted things could change in the future, but I dont see him getting to the finals soon.

You talk about the Clippers vs the early 00s East - its all hypotheticals, i dont get what this has to do with the argument.

No one gives Melo an excuse (and rightly so) So how come EVERY year people defend Cp3?

Look, no one is doubting Cp3's talent but if he keeps losing like this, doesn't it mean something? He cant just be the unluckiest player of all time.

Isn't it crazy that - Nash, Rondo, Williams, Westbrook, Parker, Rose

have ALL made it further than Paul?

I mean at a certain point it isn't a coincidence anymore. It's not even like Cp3's teams are that bad - they should have DEF beaten the Grizz last year and done better this year (despite the injuries)

Let's not act like Cp3 is playing with Lebron's Cavs.

edit - Ps Im from Trinidad too lol

sportsfan222
05-30-2013, 11:41 PM
derrick rose is the best pg in nba when healthy.

parker u can make an argument is 2.

chris paul is vastly overated. the guy puts up great fantasy numbers, but chokes in playoffs consistently. the fact that people think he is not only top pg in nba, but also a top 3 player in entire nba, and yet people will still make excuses for him when he chokes is laughable.

parker is awesome though and is carrying this spurs team throughout the playoffs, but a healthy rose is better.

and for the people who are going to say that parkers team is awesome, etc, this is a perfect example of people overrating players to make their argument.

the spurs are a very well coached team, and have lots of very solid players, but aside from parker, no one else on that team is a star.

duncan is still very good, but lets be real, this is not tim duncan from the early 2000s, hes 37 years old. still very good, but not a superstar anymore. ginobili, green, leonard, splitter, bonner, etc, all very good guys who fill their roles perfectly, but without parker, that team is not in the nba finals today.

chris paul has plenty of talent in los angeles, but he does not play well come playoff time, and everyone elses play falters when his does.

Swashcuff
05-31-2013, 01:15 AM
U just dont know how stupid u sound do u? U 1st say his teammates are "lacking", but then u go on to name ALL STAR teammates he has played with...hilarious.

Paul made David West and all star and made Tyson Chandler a better offensive player (even Tyson himself has said this on more than a few occasions). Peja was on his last legs and because of Paul he played outside of his ability at that stage of his career.


Now the real funny thing is u say he made his teammates better, but ironically their best years were w/o him as their floor leader, it was with someone else, with the exception of maybe West, and even then the only reason he scored more with Paul was bcuz he had a bigger offensive role and took more shots, his FG% has basically stayed the same since leaving NOH.

West's best years (two time all star) was with Paul. Tyson Chandler's best offensive season was with Paul Peja had the 2nd best ORTG and the highest 3FG% (best season he's ever had from the 3 TBH) of his career WITH Paul despite being on his last legs, literally.

You're really going to sit here and state that Paul doesn't make those around him better? Really?


CP3 played with an ALL STAR/ALL NBA TEAM PF

Where was that PF against the Grizzlies? Or I know on the BENCH INJURED. What happens most teams when their 2nd best player is injured and cannot play? They lose. What on earth did you expect for Paul to invoke the spirit of Michael Jordan and turn into the best player of all time and lead his team to the promise land. Get real.


, a sixth MOY candidate,

They played against the best defense in the West with the best 2 guard defender in the game. Really expected anything of Crawford?


and a bunch of savvy veterans yet couldnt even get em past the Grizz with HCA...

Savvy what? You mean hobbled Chauncey, pussyfied Odom and Grant I don't know if I have much life left in me Hill? Those veterans? Barnes and Butler played well (Barnes was exceptional and was his team's 2nd best player in that series). When your 2nd best player in a series is Matt Barnes who far do you expect to reach?


to show u how much he sucks as a leader, Curry, w/o his lone ALL STAR and 2nd best player led his team past a 3rd seed, alll the while not having HCA, and gave the Spurs wayyyy more comp than the Grizz did (the team that made mintz meat of CP3's team)....its pretty sad tbh.

Here is what, there is this word called CONTEXT go look it up in the dictionary. Learn the meaning then get back to me. The Warriors played against a Nuggets team missing their number 1 scorer and an injured Faried the playing field was basically leveled, not to mention the fact that it was NOT Curry alone (unlike the Clipps where Paul was basically there by himself), it was Thompson, Jack, Landry, Barnes AND Bogut (started playing like a top 5 C for a stretch) contributing on different nights. Who did Paul have contributing on different nights? Matt Barnes. Really?

Dude if you know anything about ball and understanding how to assess it you'd actually look at the games understand them and realize there is more to the game that just saying he had this guy and he had that guy you'd be able to assess game situations. Do you think the Spurs get pass the Grizzlies without a healthy Duncan? If you don't then how on Earth is an inferior team in the Clippers with a much worst coach supposed to?

Swashcuff
05-31-2013, 01:50 AM
Just to show you the logic here:

Isn't it odd that ALL of these hall of famers have been able to do it, yet Cp3 (for whatever reason) can't?

Do what? Not many of those guys you brought up were first or 2nd options on their teams. Some of their teams had multiple all stars who made the team with and without them. Made all NBA teams with and without them. That's a huge difference.


Look at how you justified all of their finals appearances, so is Cp3 just a coincidence? thats a bit too convenient for me. Granted things could change in the future, but I dont see him getting to the finals soon.

Recent history has thought us in the West that you need historically good teams to make it to the finals. The Thunder, Spurs, Lakers and Mavs are the only teams to rep the West in the finals in over a decade. Lets look at those teams.

Thunder - Durant = Best SF in the West and top 3 player in the league when he made it to the finals. All NBA 1st team player. Russell Westbrook All NBA 2nd teamer. James Harden of the the top 5 best 6th man seasons we've ever seen. Serge Ibaka 2nd in the NBA in DPOY voting Thabo top 5 perimeter defender. Historically speaking that's a damn good team, hell by today's standards that's a GREAT team. Look at it.

Spurs - Tim Duncan top 8 player all time and even in 2013 he was the best big man in the entire NBA. Top 15-20 SG ever in Manu and one of the most clutch players ever (Parker seldom asked to carry clutch burden in years gone by for the Spurs). Tony Parker consistently a top 5-7 PG in the NBA for the past 6 or so years. Bowen, Horry, Leonard, DRob etc. Most importantly however Manu, Parker, DUNCAN together for so long all being coached by a top 3 coach all time.

Lakers - Kobe, Shaq, Pau, Odom (not the prepussy days), Bynum and of course Phil. Don't really need to say anymore.

Mavs - Dirk (top 25 player all time) had a supporting cast in 2011 with a top 10 player at every position. Dirk (best PF), Chandler (top 10 C), Kidd (top 10 PG), Terry (top 10 SG) and Marion (top 10 SF) as well as 3-4 other solid role players. Coached by damn good coach who had a great rep for years.

Now in comparison what has Paul had? Nash had peak Amar'e, peak Marion, peak Raja, peak Barbosa, Q-Rich, Joe Johnson, peak Diaw etc etc etc. He couldn't make the finals.


You talk about the Clippers vs the early 00s East - its all hypotheticals, i dont get what this has to do with the argument.

Stating that JKidd made the finals and Paul hasn't is where that hypothetical comes into play. I mean seriously do you think that Nets team makes it to the finals in the West in the years in which Paul played? They struggle to make the post season much less the finals. This is where we apply context and not blanketly look at a TEAMs accomplishments but rather what they did to get there. The way they were abused in the Finals was testament to the calibre of play they possessed. The 8th seed out west made a better showing for themselves than Kidd's Nets.

I mean be honest with yourself bro, do you really think Kidd making the finals in his NJ years is anything to boast about when you consider the level of competition? You place CP3 on those same teams do you think they are better? Do you think he makes the finals? I bet you answer yes on both counts.


No one gives Melo an excuse (and rightly so) So how come EVERY year people defend Cp3?

I really don't see ANYONE stating Melo isn't the best SF in the game because he hasn't made the finals. People say he isn't the best SF in the game because he just isn't on Bron's level. No one is.

I've seen on MANY occasions people state that Melo's help wasn't good enough to help him get to the finals and they are absolutely right. That's not an excuse that's fact. They said it about this year's Knicks didn't they? How its a fact when its in Melo's favour but an excuse when its in CP3s?


Look, no one is doubting Cp3's talent but if he keeps losing like this, doesn't it mean something? He cant just be the unluckiest player of all time.

Look at the history of the game there have been many players more unlucky than CP3. Garnett is one. Don't you find it funny that only when he got support he made it out of round one? Suddenly Garnett is seen as a top 20 player as he became a winner (got a good coach and a finals calibre supporting cast) but when he was with the Wolves he was just another loser.

Garnett was better on the Wolves than he was on the Celts but many didn't understand this because they never understood context


Isn't it crazy that - Nash, Rondo, Williams, Westbrook, Parker, Rose

Nash. I already spoke on that. He played with Dirk, Finley, Johnson, Stoudemire and Marion. Nuff said.

Rondo 4th best player on his finals team. Not really a good example.

Williams - he made it further than CP3 in the year in which GS upset the Mavs (had this not happened he probably would not have made it out of the 2nd round) and was the 3rd best player on his team. Boozer and Okur both made their 1st all star teams and were better overall and more valuable to their teams. How much further has he made it since he was his team's best player? Same record as CP3 and got knocked out by the Bulls this year with Johnson and Brook at his side.

Westy played with the best 6th man since prime Manu and the best SF in the game. On many occasions he was his team's 3rd best player, on every occasions Paul was his teams best player.

Parker (aka the luckiest of them all) - Plays for the winningest organization in all of the major leagues over the last 15 years with the best PF ever at the front. Is there any comparison there? Place Paul in his shoes and they still have 4 or maybe even 5+ titles already.

Rose - only player other than Paul and Nash to make it past the 2nd round as his teams best player. Best example out. Would say its because of the weak east but I know better than that. Those Bulls were good in either conference. No knock on Rose for that.


I mean at a certain point it isn't a coincidence anymore. It's not even like Cp3's teams are that bad - they should have DEF beaten the Grizz last year and done better this year (despite the injuries)

Now ask yourself this simple question. Is Chris Paul the reason why his team didn't get pass the Grizzlies either year or was injuries, poor coaching and a poor 2nd option the reason why?


Let's not act like Cp3 is playing with Lebron's Cavs.

LeBron's Cavs were an equal team to the Clippers with a broken Blake.


edit - Ps Im from Trinidad too lol

Damn we've both been around so long and didn't even know that. Nice to meet you haha.

As the best PG in the game should CP3 have taken his team further? Maybe, can he get there without ample help? Hell no. Stockton was the best in the game for many years at the PG position (look at the 1st team all NBA awards he's gathered) but he only made it to the finals as a 34 year old despite playing with who was then the best PF of all time (and still is in the minds of many) Karl Malone. Do we say that Isiah is better than Stockton? More success doesn't make you better. It makes you more successful.

JordansBulls
05-31-2013, 08:12 AM
Well if he can get another finals mvp it would put him in rare class. Only Magic has more than 1 finals mvp as a PG.

harryharrison
05-31-2013, 10:45 AM
Well if he can get another finals mvp it would put him in rare class. Only Magic has more than 1 finals mvp as a PG.

Exactly. People are acting a good supporting case gets you a Finals MVP. That's ridiculous. A 2nd Finals MVP would make it a non debate.

KingPosey
06-02-2013, 10:32 AM
If Parker dominates the Finals and wins as the main man this argument is over. At that point the conversation moves to is Parker the best player in the NBA.

lol

KingPosey
06-02-2013, 10:39 AM
And Magic was a better passer, scorer, rebounder, defender and clutch player than Parker was. In many aspects much better. Unlike Parker Magic was always the best player on his championship teams (rookie year was debatable but he's as close to it as you get).

Take a look at Parker the individual. What does he do THAT much better than Paul to make him THAT much better of a player?

Parker is in a MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHh better situation for winning and he's doing just that. He's an all star and a top 5 PG you'd expect that much of him.
Over their careers Parker has easily had the better situation, but right now, he is not in a muuuuuuuuch better situation to win, that Clipper team was loaded this season, and deep. This Spurs team is old, not deep, but has savvy smart veteran leadership,coaching, smarts, theyre a well oiled machine.

But he is not in a MUUUUUUUUUCH better situation as far as this last season.

Agent00
06-02-2013, 01:30 PM
Are you sure, I'd say Shaq was the best pg of all time :p Naaw but really, I think CP3 is alongside with parker

kdspurman
06-02-2013, 07:43 PM
Over their careers Parker has easily had the better situation, but right now, he is not in a muuuuuuuuch better situation to win, that Clipper team was loaded this season, and deep. This Spurs team is old, not deep, but has savvy smart veteran leadership,coaching, smarts, theyre a well oiled machine.

But he is not in a MUUUUUUUUUCH better situation as far as this last season.

The Spurs have had one of the best bench's in the league the past 2 years, what do you mean not deep?

xRipCity
06-03-2013, 11:05 AM
The Spurs have had one of the best bench's in the league the past 2 years, what do you mean not deep?

This x1000

Pop is best at using players to their best skillsets and for this reason the bench is very deep

Joshtd1
06-03-2013, 02:27 PM
I love Parker..but honestly, I think CP3 is still the best PG in the NBA. He's the only one I would take over Parker..right now anyway. I think if CP3 was on this team, with the system Pop runs (pick and roll dominant) CP3 would be just as successful, if not more.

calmunderfireKO
06-07-2013, 12:52 AM
Tony Parker is flat out getting it done. Jalen Rose said it best, "I'm gonna make sure he gets some love".

I know ESPN is ESPN, but EVERY guy there says Parker is the best PG in the league. Like a no brainer.

He keeps playing like this and the convo moves to is he the best player in the NBA.

Swashcuff
06-07-2013, 12:53 AM
Tony Parker is flat out getting it done. Jalen Rose said it best, "I'm gonna make sure he gets some love".

I know ESPN is ESPN, but EVERY guy there says Parker is the best PG in the league. Like a no brainer.

He keeps playing like this and the convo moves to is he the best player in the NBA.

I smell a HappyHarrison dupe

jam
06-07-2013, 02:50 AM
It's VERY close. TP by a hair.


Over their careers Parker has easily had the better situation, but right now, he is not in a muuuuuuuuch better situation to win, that Clipper team was loaded this season, and deep. This Spurs team is old, not deep, but has savvy smart veteran leadership,coaching, smarts, theyre a well oiled machine.

But he is not in a MUUUUUUUUUCH better situation as far as this last season.

TrueFan420
06-07-2013, 03:16 AM
Sorry but Parker isn't better than Paul. If they switched the spurs would be even better. Parker is great and this is not a slight to him but Paul is a better player.