PDA

View Full Version : Dominique Wilkins and Clyde Drexler Dominated 90s why wouldn't lebron and durant



A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 03:20 AM
Can someone explain this too me so since Wilkins and Drexler went up against hand checking this means they would average 35 in topdays era eweven though it is clear cut that Lebron and Durant are better scorers then both and prove to me handchecking is a big advantage when players in the 80s and 90s scored more points as a team im waiting

Oj&mayonnaise
05-26-2013, 03:24 AM
what is the question ?

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 03:26 AM
what is the question ?

My question is tis prove to me that hand checkin really is a big advantage when it comes to superstars and explain to me why Lebron and Durant wouldn't dominate the 90's. Because wilkins and drexler dominated the 90s and they aren't as good of scorers Lebron and Wade

bagwell368
05-26-2013, 06:28 AM
Wilkins dominated? Really? Volume scorer that won nothing and didn't make his team better? Better sample please.

odiz
05-26-2013, 07:46 AM
Wilkins dominated? Really? Volume scorer that won nothing and didn't make his team better? Better sample please.

Wilkins shot right at 47% during his prime. I dont know if you can say he was a volume scorer.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-26-2013, 12:27 PM
Both guys were very good players but not the dominant players of their eras.

I would guess they had very few 1st all NBA team awards between them.

Why didn't you say Michael Jordan or Larry Bird?

Chronz
05-26-2013, 12:31 PM
Wilkins dominated? Really? Volume scorer that won nothing and didn't make his team better? Better sample please.

Still a great player

Lets not get caught up in acting like every player had to be Larry Bird

JasonJohnHorn
05-26-2013, 01:09 PM
I believe Drexler and Wilkens would have both put up better numbers in today's league. Drexler at his peek, in my opinion, was as good as Kobe during the Lakers 3-peat and re-peat.

Peopel underrate Drexler because he only won one championship. You look at his numbers and you realize he was a better all-around player than Kobe. He was a better rebounder, a better playmaker and his FG% was higher (though Kobe had a higher FT and 3p percentage). The thing with Drexler is that he was more of a facilitator and he played on a team with a great PG (Terry Porter) so he didn't handle the ball as much as Kobe did. You put Drexler on those Lakers teams and they win just as many rings (if not more) and with a LOT less drama.

Drexler was one of the best shooter guards of all time. People really under value him just as they often undervalue players who don't feel the need to score 4 more points in a game even if it means taking 6 more shots. For some reason people think 30/5/5 is better than 26/6/6 even if the guy who got thirty was 13/30 while the guy with 26 was 13/26. It's just the way people think.


As for Durant and LBJ. They would have dominated in the late 80's and early 90's as well. LBJ has so much bulk, it was just unheard of at the time for a wing player. He would have barreled through any defence. As for Durant, he's a great shooter so he doesn't rely strictly on cutting to the basket.


Anybody who thinks that LBJ and Durant wouldn't play at an MVP level in any generation of the NBA doesn't know the game very well. These guys are AMAZING talents.


And anybody who thinks Nique is better than Durant or LBJ never watched the guy play. He was great, but he was a high volume shooter. They ran a lot of plays for him. He needed plays run for him to score and be effective. He was more like Melo in that way (though the two are very different players).

Now if Wade was playing back then... he'd be ranked below Jordan and Drexler for sure... I think Wade is a better all around player than Miller and Dumar and likely Richmond as well, but I think Wade's ranking would be more in line with those guys during that era.


But yeah, LBJ and Durant are MVP candidates in any season.

bagwell368
05-26-2013, 01:57 PM
Still a great player

Lets not get caught up in acting like every player had to be Larry Bird

Absolutely. But I've had a decades long dislike of volume scorers that don't put effort into D, and either don't pass or rebound as well as they ought given their talent.

Wilkins is a top 25 all time talent that effectively played at a much lower level - below 75th, if not 100th.

As for 47% in his prime, his eFG% and ORtg were not that great, and his assists were pitiful given how much time he held the ball, and don't be blaming his teammates, he played on a number of teams with good/very good percentage shooters in the #4 and #5. He is 16th all time in FGM, but 9th in FGA (and considering the high percentage of dunks he took, don't be claiming he was some perimeter #3). He never finished in the top 10 in ORtg or DRtg in any any yaer. He's 8th all time in Usage %, but has a horrid 2.5 TOV and 2.5 APG - 1 to 1 ratio.

Toss in his DRtg%, which was below average, and that title of "human highlight film" refers to his abilities in certain areas, but doesn't testify to his overall mettle and playing you know - the game of basketball as a 5 on 5 proposition...

To an ex-player and coaches eye, he's just a forerunner of the ESPN dunk/block/steal culture - as if basketball can be even partially described by those things.

OceanSpray
05-26-2013, 01:59 PM
The OP is trying to prove whether or not you think Drexler/Wilkins is better than Durant/James. Clearly Durant/James are better and if Drexler/Wilkins were some of the top players of that era, why wouldn't James/Durant dominate? I can't think of any reason. Muggsy averaged 12 PPG.. Are you saying he woulda scored 20 PPG in today's era?

bagwell368
05-26-2013, 02:03 PM
The OP is trying to prove whether or not you think Drexler/Wilkins is better than Durant/James. Clearly Durant/James are better and if Drexler/Wilkins were some of the top players of that era, why wouldn't James/Durant dominate? I can't think of any reason. Muggsy averaged 12 PPG.. Are you saying he woulda scored 20 PPG in today's era?

Out of these 4, I rank them (peak):

James
Durant
Drexler
Wilkins

OceanSpray
05-26-2013, 02:18 PM
Out of these 4, I rank them (peak):

James
Durant
Drexler
Wilkins

Same, but the difference between James/Durant from Drexler is huge. If Drexler was the best SG at that time and probably one of Jordan's biggest foes, what makes people think James/Durant wouldn't succeed? I don't think Drexler is better than James/Durant so what makes Jordan's era immortal?

slaker619
05-26-2013, 02:29 PM
I doubt this would ever happen, but would be crazy!

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 02:32 PM
I believe Drexler and Wilkens would have both put up better numbers in today's league. Drexler at his peek, in my opinion, was as good as Kobe during the Lakers 3-peat and re-peat.

Peopel underrate Drexler because he only won one championship. You look at his numbers and you realize he was a better all-around player than Kobe. He was a better rebounder, a better playmaker and his FG% was higher (though Kobe had a higher FT and 3p percentage). The thing with Drexler is that he was more of a facilitator and he played on a team with a great PG (Terry Porter) so he didn't handle the ball as much as Kobe did. You put Drexler on those Lakers teams and they win just as many rings (if not more) and with a LOT less drama.

Drexler was one of the best shooter guards of all time. People really under value him just as they often undervalue players who don't feel the need to score 4 more points in a game even if it means taking 6 more shots. For some reason people think 30/5/5 is better than 26/6/6 even if the guy who got thirty was 13/30 while the guy with 26 was 13/26. It's just the way people think.


As for Durant and LBJ. They would have dominated in the late 80's and early 90's as well. LBJ has so much bulk, it was just unheard of at the time for a wing player. He would have barreled through any defence. As for Durant, he's a great shooter so he doesn't rely strictly on cutting to the basket.


Anybody who thinks that LBJ and Durant wouldn't play at an MVP level in any generation of the NBA doesn't know the game very well. These guys are AMAZING talents.


And anybody who thinks Nique is better than Durant or LBJ never watched the guy play. He was great, but he was a high volume shooter. They ran a lot of plays for him. He needed plays run for him to score and be effective. He was more like Melo in that way (though the two are very different players).

Now if Wade was playing back then... he'd be ranked below Jordan and Drexler for sure... I think Wade is a better all around player than Miller and Dumar and likely Richmond as well, but I think Wade's ranking would be more in line with those guys during that era.


But yeah, LBJ and Durant are MVP candidates in any season.

I could make an arguement since wilkins was able to get at the rim at will that LBJ would do the same since he is more athletic and a better shooter and has a much better post game I could make a Legit arguement that Lebron would average 29/8/8 in the 90s
Durant 31/5/8
Im just saying since Lebron and Durant are better scorers then both why would hand checking all of a sudden effect their game when both are freak of natures

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 02:33 PM
Same, but the difference between James/Durant from Drexler is huge. If Drexler was the best SG at that time and probably one of Jordan's biggest foes, what makes people think James/Durant wouldn't succeed? I don't think Drexler is better than James/Durant so what makes Jordan's era immortal?

Thank you if anyone actually watched wilkins play you will see that al; he did was drive to the rim he is actually quiet similar to Lebron but lebron is a lot more stronger and craftier

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-26-2013, 02:39 PM
Dupalicious.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 02:40 PM
LeBron and Durant are better than either. Both would dominate any era they played in.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 02:56 PM
LeBron and Durant are better than either. Both would dominate any era they played in.

So you agree with me that the 90s defense as a whole is overrated because of the knicks and the bad boys

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 02:57 PM
So you agree with me that the 90s defense as a whole is overrated because of the knicks and the bad boys

Of course. They put on hard fouls, sure, but the paint was wide open, and they didn't have the scouting knowledge and specialists like they do now. The defense now is better than yesterday. And it will continue to get better, which is why rule changes happen.

OceanSpray
05-26-2013, 03:01 PM
Of course. They put on hard fouls, sure, but the paint was wide open, and they didn't have the scouting knowledge and specialists like they do now. The defense now is better than yesterday. And it will continue to get better, which is why rule changes happen.

I'm so glad we have an intelligent basketball mind instead of idiots out there. They seem to think Jordan's era played in a war zone or something.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 03:02 PM
Of course. They put on hard fouls, sure, but the paint was wide open, and they didn't have the scouting knowledge and specialists like they do now. The defense now is better than yesterday. And it will continue to get better, which is why rule changes happen.

Ow wow a Jordan Fanatic Agreeing with me thats a first

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 03:03 PM
I'm so glad we have an intelligent basketball mind instead of idiots out there. They seem to think Jordan's era played in a war zone or something.

Did you no jordan Averaged like 10 FTA a game against the Bad boys lol
How can they be called a great defensive team if the fouled on pretty much so every posession almost

OceanSpray
05-26-2013, 03:06 PM
Did you no jordan Averaged like 10 FTA a game against the Bad boys lol
How can they be called a great defensive team if the fouled on pretty much so every posession almost

Funny part was they scored more. When I mentioned that, they said because they were better scorers too.. How are you the best defenders and best scorers at the same time? It contradicts itself. How does MJ average more free throws if they were great defenders.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 03:06 PM
Did you no jordan Averaged like 10 FTA a game against the Bad boys lol
How can they be called a great defensive team if the fouled on pretty much so every posession almost

The Pistons were a very good defensive team, but the league in general is what I am speaking of. They would still be a top 5 defense in today's game, but yes, the defenses today are better. Simply put. People confuse all those hard hits, and fights for tougher defense, while ignoring that on a possession by possession basis, todays defense is better. How many times did we see Jordan just go straight down the pipe with no resistance? That doesn't happen nearly as often anymore.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 03:09 PM
fun fact. The 04' Pistons gave up around 8 points per 100 possessions LESS than those Bad Boy Pistons.

tredigs
05-26-2013, 03:38 PM
My question is tis prove to me that hand checkin really is a big advantage when it comes to superstars and explain to me why Lebron and Durant wouldn't dominate the 90's. Because wilkins and drexler dominated the 90s and they aren't as good of scorers Lebron and Wade

Someone's drunk posting...

A couple things. (1) It is overwhelming opinion by basketball fans that Lebron and KD would crush it in any era. Those who think differently are in the minority and almost guaranteed to be wrong. Their game easily translates, and so far in this thread nobody has disagreed with that. (2) The best of Drexler + Wilkins were both very good to elite and would be comparable to the impact of Melo and peak Ray Allen or slightly weaker Kobe in this era, but these were not "dominating" top-5 players like LBJ/Wade/Durant and the fact that they only have 1 ring between them both (when Clyde was with Hakeem and MJ was playing baseball) isn't a fluke.

In Jordan's era Lebron/Kobe/Durant would fight with Jordan/Barkley/Robinson/Shaq/Hakeem/Malone/Pippen/Bird/Magic, etc. as the best players in 'X' year. But not Nique and really not even Drexler outside of a couple seasons.

Point is, plenty of those players would crush it in today's league and vice versa.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 03:40 PM
fun fact. The 04' Pistons gave up around 8 points per 100 possessions LESS than
those Bad Boy Pistons.

Just imagine what lebron would've done

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-26-2013, 03:41 PM
Of course. They put on hard fouls, sure, but the paint was wide open, and they didn't have the scouting knowledge and specialists like they do now. The defense now is better than yesterday. And it will continue to get better, which is why rule changes happen.
You would take a dupe seroious Hawk, Come on bro...

Ow wow a Jordan Fanatic Agreeing with me thats a first

Hawkeye is a Lebron fan, not Jordan.

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-26-2013, 04:06 PM
The OP is trying to prove whether or not you think Drexler/Wilkins is better than Durant/James. Clearly Durant/James are better and if Drexler/Wilkins were some of the top players of that era, why wouldn't James/Durant dominate? I can't think of any reason. Muggsy averaged 12 PPG.. Are you saying he woulda scored 20 PPG in today's era?

Your sig just proves that MJ was the best.

OceanSpray
05-26-2013, 04:19 PM
Someone's drunk posting...

A couple things. (1) It is overwhelming opinion by basketball fans that Lebron and KD would crush it in any era. Those who think differently are in the minority and almost guaranteed to be wrong. Their game easily translates, and so far in this thread nobody has disagreed with that. (2) The best of Drexler + Wilkins were both very good to elite and would be comparable to the impact of Melo and peak Ray Allen or slightly weaker Kobe in this era, but these were not "dominating" top-5 players like LBJ/Wade/Durant and the fact that they only have 1 ring between them both (when Clyde was with Hakeem and MJ was playing baseball) isn't a fluke.

In Jordan's era Lebron/Kobe/Durant would fight with Jordan/Barkley/Robinson/Shaq/Hakeem/Malone/Pippen/Bird/Magic, etc. as the best players in 'X' year. But not Nique and really not even Drexler outside of a couple seasons.

Point is, plenty of those players would crush it in today's league and vice versa.

Did you really compare Drex to Kobe? Lmao. It's a misconception that Jordan's era were so much better. They weren't quicker, faster, nor stronger. Have you seen a PG of Westbrook in Jordan's era? He would destroy PG's of that era because of his explosiveness. I don't care what you say because it's clear you're a nostalgic fan who can't let go of the past.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 04:34 PM
Actually I am a monster Jordan fan. Favorite player of all time, hands down. Bird is next. I simply understand that I am now watching a top 5 player ever by the time he is done in LeBron.

tredigs
05-26-2013, 04:36 PM
Looks like we have an idiot here. Did you really compare Drex to Kobe? Lmao. It's a misconception that Jordan's era were so much better. They weren't quicker, faster, nor stronger. Have you seen a PG of Westbrook in Jordan's era? He would destroy PG's of that era because of his explosiveness. I don't care what you say because it's clear you're a nostalgic fan who can't let go of the past.

Just like Nash and Tony Parker destroyed this era's PG's with their size and explosive athleticism, right? As for the rest of the post, re-read what I wrote and comprehend what I'm saying or stfu and go troll elsewhere. You truly bring nothing to a debate other than mindless beating off of all things LBJ. Realize that in dismissing Clyde (a guy I said was lesser in impact than Kobe) you're laughing off a SG capable of 27/6/8 on 50% from the field with solid D and a WS/48 on par with prime Kobe. You don't know anything about basketball before 2004 (or now, for that matter), and that's fine, but you'd do better to learn about it before trying to call out those who do.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 04:37 PM
Just imagine what lebron would've done

Well, the greatest would have dominated any era. So by that definition, imagine what Jordan would do in the no hand check era...

tredigs
05-26-2013, 04:48 PM
(2) The best of Drexler + Wilkins were both very good to elite and would be comparable to the impact of Melo and peak Ray Allen or slightly weaker Kobe in this era, but these were not "dominating" top-5 players like LBJ/Wade/Durant and the fact that they only have 1 ring between them both (when Clyde was with Hakeem and MJ was playing baseball) isn't a fluke.

In Jordan's era Lebron/Kobe/Durant would fight with Jordan/Barkley/Robinson/Shaq/Hakeem/Malone/Pippen/Bird/Magic, etc. as the best players in 'X' year. But not Nique and really not even Drexler outside of a couple seasons.

Point is, plenty of those players would crush it in today's league and vice versa.

I'll take out my insult and leave it at this. I won't bother responding to your failures next time.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-26-2013, 04:52 PM
Lebron and Durant could definately give Jordan trouble. But everytime you talk about Jordan in this site, he suddenly turns to some god that Lebron and Durant can't challege despite Jordan being in tough battles with players who are not as good/similarly good as Lebron or Durant.

KingPosey
05-26-2013, 05:05 PM
Clyde has always been waaaay underrated because of a man named MJ

Longhornfan1234
05-26-2013, 05:29 PM
Clyde has always been waaaay underrated because of a man named MJ

Lol no... he underachieved while playing alongside a stacked team during his prime.

OceanSpray
05-26-2013, 05:30 PM
I'll take out my insult and leave it at this. I won't bother responding to your failures next time.

The best of Drexler. Hmm, so the best of T-Mac means he's LeBron. Good one. If you're going to compare one season to a career, at least use a better example.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 05:33 PM
The best of Drexler. Hmm, so the best of T-Mac means he's LeBron. Good one. If you're going to compare one season to a career, at least use a better example.

how old are you? Just curious as to whether you watched Drexler or not. He wasn't quite as good as Kobe, but he was better than Melo for instance. A star player no doubt.

Wilkins, was more of a one dimensional player. Volume scorer who didn't really impact winning.

tredigs
05-26-2013, 06:01 PM
The best of Drexler. Hmm, so the best of T-Mac means he's LeBron. Good one. If you're going to compare one season to a career, at least use a better example.

Hahah OK I will try to clear this up once and for all. Is that what I said, or is that the exact opposite of what I said? Way to fail in new ways, you continually impress us. My whole point is that there was only a couple select seasons where Drexler could truly be compared with the very best of MJ's era, but that in those seasons his production value was around peak Ray Allen (and actually he was better than peak Ray Allen) or a slightly lesser version of Kobe. I'm not talking about his entire career, and that is the point. Now go put your dunce cap back on or by all means actually contribute something to the thread by offering up more comparable SG's from this era that you can compare Drexler with?...

Edit - - I'm also curious along with Hawk how old you are. You seem to think that the 90's were some era with unathletic+slow players that just could not hack it in today's league. The whole premise behind that is pretty hilarious when you think about the fact that Cp3 is the leagues best PG along with Tony Parker. And some of the top up and comers like Stephen Curry are less athletic then plenty of the junior college players I'll play in open gym. It wasn't exactly a fluke that Stockton still had the best assist% in the NBA when he retired from the NBA at age 40 in 2003 - about a decade past his peak. Athleticism is far from the most crucial component of being an elite player, but the 80's+90's still had it in droves.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 06:55 PM
Hahah OK I will try to clear this up once and for all. Is that what I said, or is that the exact opposite of what I said? Way to fail in new ways, you continually impress us. My whole point is that there was only a couple select seasons where Drexler could truly be compared with the very best of MJ's era, but that in those seasons his production value was around peak Ray Allen (and actually he was better than peak Ray Allen) or a slightly lesser version of Kobe. I'm not talking about his entire career, and that is the point. Now go put your dunce cap back on or by all means actually contribute something to the thread by offering up more comparable SG's from this era that you can compare Drexler with?...

Edit - - I'm also curious along with Hawk how old you are. You seem to think that the 90's were some era with unathletic+slow players that just could not hack it in today's league. The whole premise behind that is pretty hilarious when you think about the fact that Cp3 is the leagues best PG along with Tony Parker. And some of the top up and comers like Stephen Curry are less athletic then plenty of the junior college players I'll play in open gym. It wasn't exactly a fluke that Stockton still had the best assist% in the NBA when he retired from the NBA at age 40 in 2003 - about a decade past his peak. Athleticism is far from the most crucial component of being an elite player, but the 80's+90's still had it in droves.

the age thing isn't as relevant now, if you are a student of the game. mightybosstone is like 26, but he simply watched a **** ton of old tape/games to form some opinions, along with researching the numbers, era's, etc.

But yeah, for the most part, those who act like the 80's and 90's were a bunch of stiffs are young fans who are trying like hell to paint a picture for the modern guys, and their first idol. My first basketball idol is long out of the sport, and a complete idiot. I really think when you get past that first stage, you start to appreciate the game more.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Someone's drunk posting...

A couple things. (1) It is overwhelming opinion by basketball fans that Lebron and KD would crush it in any era. Those who think differently are in the minority and almost guaranteed to be wrong. Their game easily translates, and so far in this thread nobody has disagreed with that. (2) The best of Drexler + Wilkins were both very good to elite and would be comparable to the impact of Melo and peak Ray Allen or slightly weaker Kobe in this era, but these were not "dominating" top-5 players like LBJ/Wade/Durant and the fact that they only have 1 ring between them both (when Clyde was with Hakeem and MJ was playing baseball) isn't a fluke.

In Jordan's era Lebron/Kobe/Durant would fight with Jordan/Barkley/Robinson/Shaq/Hakeem/Malone/Pippen/Bird/Magic, etc. as the best players in 'X' year. But not Nique and really not even Drexler outside of a couple seasons.

Point is, plenty of those players would crush it in today's league and vice versa.

Thank you for agreeing with me my question is why do people make it seem like handchecking is such a big deal when in fact they aeraged more points in the 80s and 90s and please dont tell me it was because of college because Jordan didn't start dominating until he came into the NBA when you compare his College career to his NBA career he was much better in the NBA. And I understand that there was dominate players back then but weren't none of those players in the 90s better then KD, Lebron, and Kobe

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:04 PM
Just like Nash and Tony Parker destroyed this era's PG's with their size and explosive athleticism, right? As for the rest of the post, re-read what I wrote and comprehend what I'm saying or stfu and go troll elsewhere. You truly bring nothing to a debate other than mindless beating off of all things LBJ. Realize that in dismissing Clyde (a guy I said was lesser in impact than Kobe) you're laughing off a SG capable of 27/6/8 on 50% from the field with solid D and a WS/48 on par with prime Kobe. You don't know anything about basketball before 2004 (or now, for that matter), and that's fine, but you'd do better to learn about it before trying to call out those who do.

I personally think clyde is top 30 honestly but I will admit that I think Wade was the better player at his peak Just saying but I will say Drexler is one of the most underrated players of all time you even have people saying scottie was better

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:05 PM
Thank you for agreeing with me my question is why do people make it seem like handchecking is such a big deal when in fact they aeraged more points in the 80s and 90s and please dont tell me it was because of college because Jordan didn't start dominating until he came into the NBA when you compare his College career to his NBA career he was much better in the NBA. And I understand that there was dominate players back then but weren't none of those players in the 90s better then KD, Lebron, and Kobe

Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq. All currently better than the 3 you named all time. Don't act like there wasn't awesome competition in that era.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:08 PM
Well, the greatest would have dominated any era. So by that definition, imagine what Jordan would do in the no hand check era...

I think Jordan wouldve averaged around 32/5/5 with 2 steals and 0.8 blacks he was a great player but lets not sit here and act like dude is some type of god. Ow did you no Wilkins career high in the 90s was 30 so what wouldwilkins have done in the 2000s average 35 lol. Even though he isn't a better scorer then Lebron or Kobe or durant and yes
KD>Wilkins and Drexler and this is coming from a dude that watched them both play

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:10 PM
Hahah OK I will try to clear this up once and for all. Is that what I said, or is that the exact opposite of what I said? Way to fail in new ways, you continually impress us. My whole point is that there was only a couple select seasons where Drexler could truly be compared with the very best of MJ's era, but that in those seasons his production value was around peak Ray Allen (and actually he was better than peak Ray Allen) or a slightly lesser version of Kobe. I'm not talking about his entire career, and that is the point. Now go put your dunce cap back on or by all means actually contribute something to the thread by offering up more comparable SG's from this era that you can compare Drexler with?...

Edit - - I'm also curious along with Hawk how old you are. You seem to think that the 90's were some era with unathletic+slow players that just could not hack it in today's league. The whole premise behind that is pretty hilarious when you think about the fact that Cp3 is the leagues best PG along with Tony Parker. And some of the top up and comers like Stephen Curry are less athletic then plenty of the junior college players I'll play in open gym. It wasn't exactly a fluke that Stockton still had the best assist% in the NBA when he retired from the NBA at age 40 in 2003 - about a decade past his peak. Athleticism is far from the most crucial component of being an elite player, but the 80's+90's still had it in droves.

Im a die hard Ray Allen fan but even I will admit Drexler was better the problem he had was he was to unselfish of a player

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:11 PM
I think Jordan wouldve averaged around 32/5/5 with 2 steals and 0.8 blacks he was a great player but lets not sit here and act like dude is some type of god. Ow did you no Wilkins career high in the 90s was 30 so what wouldwilkins have done in the 2000s average 35 lol. Even though he isn't a better scorer then Lebron or Kobe or durant and yes
KD>Wilkins and Drexler and this is coming from a dude that watched them both play

No basketball player is a god, but Jordan's complete dominance and numbers make him very, very hard to catch. LeBron's career needs to go near perfect for him to have a chance.

I already alluded to the fact that Wilkins doesn't even belong in the conversation with these guys. I find it interesting anyone would even list him in this debate, when there were a lot of better players to use instead.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:15 PM
Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq. All currently better than the 3 you named all time. Don't act like there wasn't awesome competition in that era.

I disagree Hakeem is not a better overall player then Lebron and Shaq isn't even a better overall player then Lebron I will admit that shaq was a dominate force and I will admit outside of wilt He was the Most dominate center but that doesn't make him a better overall player Lebron is an overall better scorer better passer better shooter Better defender. Now I will admit Hakeem has a really good case I think he is one of the most underrated centers sometimes He might be the greatest Defensive center that ever lived since he has the most blocks in history and he is top 10 in steals. But even him I wouldn't say is a better overall player then Lebron Lebron can play ever position he is a great ofensive force and defensive force and he is very unselfish thats why I will give him the edge on both Hakeem and Shaq(even though Shaq has more championships, but like I said thats a team accomplishment.
Ow yea
Kareem G.C.O.A.T

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:18 PM
No basketball player is a god, but Jordan's complete dominance and numbers make him very, very hard to catch. LeBron's career needs to go near perfect for him to have a chance.

I already alluded to the fact that Wilkins doesn't even belong in the conversation with these guys. I find it interesting anyone would even list him in this debate, when there were a lot of better players to use instead.

Im sorry but if you are talking about basketball strictly I think Kareem has a much better case he dominated highschool, college, and the NBA and Dude went up against a lot more competetion then what MJ faced in the 90s and the centers he dominated against were just as good if not better then the 90s but at the same time I will say you cant fault the players who were born at a different time. But I still say it's not always about who you played with it should also be about who you played against

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:23 PM
Im sorry but if you are talking about basketball strictly I think Kareem has a much better case he dominated highschool, college, and the NBA and Dude went up against a lot more competetion then what MJ faced in the 90s and the centers he dominated against were just as good if not better then the 90s but at the same time I will say you cant fault the players who were born at a different time. But I still say it's not always about who you played with it should also be about who you played against

I am not concerned with high school and college basketball in an NBA forum discussion.

You are underrating the competition of yesterday. Is it because you want to push a LeBron agenda? I don't know, but you are severely underrating the players from the past.

And yes, if Kobe, LeBron, and Durant stopped playing right now, they are behind Hakeem, Shaq, Jordan (all 3 will most likely end up behind him anyways), Magic, and Duncan.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:23 PM
I disagree Hakeem is not a better overall player then Lebron and Shaq isn't even a better overall player then Lebron I will admit that shaq was a dominate force and I will admit outside of wilt He was the Most dominate center but that doesn't make him a better overall player Lebron is an overall better scorer better passer better shooter Better defender. Now I will admit Hakeem has a really good case I think he is one of the most underrated centers sometimes He might be the greatest Defensive center that ever lived since he has the most blocks in history and he is top 10 in steals. But even him I wouldn't say is a better overall player then Lebron Lebron can play ever position he is a great ofensive force and defensive force and he is very unselfish thats why I will give him the edge on both Hakeem and Shaq(even though Shaq has more championships, but like I said thats a team accomplishment.
Ow yea
Kareem G.C.O.A.T

Jordan is the best player to ever play in the NBA. Prove otherwise. Good luck. Stats will absolutely destroy any argument you can come up with, as will MJ's success.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:27 PM
I am not concerned with high school and college basketball in an NBA forum discussion.

You are underrating the competition of yesterday. Is it because you want to push a LeBron agenda? I don't know, but you are severely underrating the players from the past.

And yes, if Kobe, LeBron, and Durant stopped playing right now, they are behind Hakeem, Shaq, Jordan (all 3 will most likely end up behind him anyways), Magic, and Duncan.

No im not I believe that the 90s had great players but when it comes to overall Quality of the perimiter players now I think the are better now when it goes for big men you got me

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:28 PM
I am not concerned with high school and college basketball in an NBA forum discussion.

You are underrating the competition of yesterday. Is it because you want to push a LeBron agenda? I don't know, but you are severely underrating the players from the past.

And yes, if Kobe, LeBron, and Durant stopped playing right now, they are behind Hakeem, Shaq, Jordan (all 3 will most likely end up behind him anyways), Magic, and Duncan.

You have people that feel Kobe is ahead of Shaq because of Longevity which is kind of lame IMO

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:33 PM
You have people that feel Kobe is ahead of Shaq because of Longevity which is kind of lame IMO

Shaq had awesome longevity. Kobe will never pass him.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 07:37 PM
Shaq had awesome longevity. Kobe will never pass him.


Tell that to stephen A smith he said Kobe is ahead of shaq because of better longevity if thats the case
Duncan> Hakeem which is arguble I like Duncan better but Hakeem has a really strong case IMO

NYKalltheway
05-26-2013, 07:39 PM
Anyone saying that Drexler is inferior to Kobe, Lebron or Durant should stop acting as if they understand basketball. You could argue equal when it comes to Kobe overall, but for the rest, they're quite off and much different players.

The thread's point is useless. If Drexler played today with his supreme athleticism and a 2000s version of him rather than 80s/90s (which should apply backwards to the other players and not use "oh he's so muscular" since we're talking about different eras and talent comparison comes first), then people would call him the GOAT because he'd make a joke out of this era and win a bucket of championships.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:43 PM
No im not I believe that the 90s had great players but when it comes to overall Quality of the perimiter players now I think the are better now when it goes for big men you got me

well, you can split it up anyway you like. Fact is, there were just as many great players back then, as there are now.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:44 PM
Anyone saying that Drexler is inferior to Kobe, Lebron or Durant should stop acting as if they understand basketball. You could argue equal when it comes to Kobe overall, but for the rest, they're quite off and much different players.

The thread's point is useless. If Drexler played today with his supreme athleticism and a 2000s version of him rather than 80s/90s (which should apply backwards to the other players and not use "oh he's so muscular" since we're talking about different eras and talent comparison comes first), then people would call him the GOAT because he'd make a joke out of this era and win a bucket of championships.

are you being serious haha? Clyde "you might be the most wide open player in history, but I don't see you cause I dribble with my head down"? Look, he was an all timer, but not of the caliber of Kobe, LeBron, or Durant.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 07:45 PM
Tell that to stephen A smith he said Kobe is ahead of shaq because of better longevity if thats the case
Duncan> Hakeem which is arguble I like Duncan better but Hakeem has a really strong case IMO

if I were to meet SAS, he wouldn't get a word from me, he would get a backhand and a challenge to a duel, english style. The man is an idiot.

NYKalltheway
05-26-2013, 08:04 PM
are you being serious haha? Clyde "you might be the most wide open player in history, but I don't see you cause I dribble with my head down"? Look, he was an all timer, but not of the caliber of Kobe, LeBron, or Durant.

He could jump the highest of all 3 (Kobe, Lebron, Durant) - (athletic ability + factoring in he was from a previous era, major +++ )
He could penetrate with as much ease as Lebron, yet he didn't play with cleared lanes so that's a +
He could pass at a greater rate than all 3, with Lebron being the closest to him.

To say that he was inferior to Kobe is a sign that you haven't seen him play or that you're biased. To say that Lebron/Durant after 10/5 years can be considered greater than Kobe and Drexler is actually a bit funny :D

Hawkeye15
05-26-2013, 08:06 PM
He could jump the highest of all 3 (Kobe, Lebron, Durant)
He could penetrate with as much ease as Lebron, yet he didn't play with cleared lanes so that's a +
He could pass at a greater rate than all 3, with Lebron being the closest to him.

To say that he was inferior to Kobe is a sign that you haven't seen him play or that you're biased. To say that Lebron/Durant after 10/5 years can be considered greater than Kobe and Drexler is actually a bit funny :D

You think Drexler didnt' play with clear lanes, and could pass like LeBron? The dude stared at the ball half the time he dribbled.

Drexler was a great player, but by no means is he is Kobe, LeBron, or Durant's class.

NYKalltheway
05-26-2013, 08:23 PM
You think Drexler didnt' play with clear lanes, and could pass like LeBron? The dude stared at the ball half the time he dribbled.

Drexler was a great player, but by no means is he is Kobe, LeBron, or Durant's class.

Pkay you keep mentioning one 'fun fact' about Drexler which doesn't mean anything. The guy was an amazing passer, had eyes everywhere and could kill you at any moment. You're comparing Kevin Durant to Drexler??? The same Durant that lost in 5 to Zach freaking Randolph with home court advantage? (if you wanna go that way)

Drexler was a top 5-10 player in the 90s(depending on if you rate bigs over guards). That alone speaks for his quality.

b@llhog24
05-26-2013, 08:32 PM
are you being serious haha? Clyde "you might be the most wide open player in history, but I don't see you cause I dribble with my head down"? Look, he was an all timer, but not of the caliber of Kobe, LeBron, or Durant.

Here's a couple more gems by this guy:


I see Wade as a lesser version of Drexler so Hakeem + Wade for me. Can't think of how Kobe can coexist with David Robinson. The Admiral hasn't really succeeded with slashers like Kobe.


What's crazy and why is it one of the worst posts? Kobe didn't really share the ball (until his 5th year in the NBA) and David Robinson is a much different player to Shaq. He's a better 'teammate' than Hakeem but Kobe is mr anti-chemistry. And if you wanna be simplistic and strict, David Robinson only won when he had a 'twin tower' star next to him, not a slasher like Kobe. Sure Kobe polished his game and added a killer fadeaway, but he's much more selfish than Wade and Davrd Robinson never played with a player like Kobe, while Hakeem has played with a similar player to Wade and actually won.


Mind is not blown. Hakeem and Wade have both won with a similar player to the other. David Robinson on the other hand no.

And a team with Hakeem and Wade is more "buildable" than Kobe-DRob. If you can't see why, then I suggest you take a look at both Wade's and Kobe's careers.

P.S: Drexler was on par with Michael Jordan at some point in his career, Wade cannot be put on the same level, sorry to disappoint you. Just get a time machine back to the early 90s and you'll see what I'm saying.
Just because some fans feel that he didn't deliver in terms of championships during his prime, it doesn't mean he wasn't a superstar and a top 5 player. Tougher era, harder game for guards (rules change- guards were literally beaten up every game whereas now they are unguardable) and less publicity.

NYKalltheway
05-26-2013, 08:36 PM
nvm..

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 09:16 PM
He could jump the highest of all 3 (Kobe, Lebron, Durant) - (athletic ability + factoring in he was from a previous era, major +++ )
He could penetrate with as much ease as Lebron, yet he didn't play with cleared lanes so that's a +
He could pass at a greater rate than all 3, with Lebron being the closest to him.

To say that he was inferior to Kobe is a sign that you haven't seen him play or that you're biased. To say that Lebron/Durant after 10/5 years can be considered greater than Kobe and Drexler is actually a bit funny :D

Lol if lebron saw Clyde in his prime he would laugh lebron is a better scorer defender passer and you can argue shooter. I will admit Clyde is underrated but he is not no Lebron or Kevin Durant in my opinion, but to be fair I will admit it's to early to judge KD but based off of what I've seen from Clyde I just hink KD is much more dominate

NYKalltheway
05-26-2013, 09:24 PM
can someone who doesn't think the orange ball is a fruit reply?

TheLegend
05-26-2013, 10:28 PM
Can someone explain this too me so since Wilkins and Drexler went up against hand checking this means they would average 35 in topdays era eweven though it is clear cut that Lebron and Durant are better scorers then both and prove to me handchecking is a big advantage when players in the 80s and 90s scored more points as a team im waiting

Its clear cut Bron and Durant are better scorers than Wilkins and drexler ? Lol you clearly didn't watch Wilkins play.

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 10:33 PM
Its clear cut Bron and Durant are better scorers than Wilkins and drexler ? Lol
you clearly didn't watch Wilkins play.

Are you serious Lebron is a better shooter Post player Driving is a wash And durant is a better scorer then both theres no reason for me to explain why Durant is a better scorer then wilkins anybody that watched wilkins no he wasn't all that of a shooter and he wasn't all that of a post player SMDH

NYKalltheway
05-26-2013, 10:43 PM
Are you serious Lebron is a better shooter Post player Driving is a wash And durant is a better scorer then both theres no reason for me to explain why Durant is a better scorer then wilkins anybody that watched wilkins no he wasn't all that of a shooter and he wasn't all that of a post player SMDH


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4

entertain us... Lebron a better post player than Nique? Lebron didn't even know what the post was until last January...

A Black Prophet
05-26-2013, 10:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4

entertain us... Lebron a better post player than Nique? Lebron didn't even know what the post was until last January...

SMDH one whole series really I was just watching that game 10 mins ago doesn't prove **** Wow he did turn around fade aways thats like me saying look Kobe better post player then Hakeem. Lebron is much better at posting down low compared to Wilkins are you not watching the game right now SMDH.

bagwell368
05-26-2013, 11:19 PM
Pkay you keep mentioning one 'fun fact' about Drexler which doesn't mean anything. The guy was an amazing passer, had eyes everywhere and could kill you at any moment. You're comparing Kevin Durant to Drexler??? The same Durant that lost in 5 to Zach freaking Randolph with home court advantage? (if you wanna go that way)

Drexler was a top 5-10 player in the 90s(depending on if you rate bigs over guards). That alone speaks for his quality.

Stop.

Durant is a better player than Drexler. Drexler never had a year as good as Durant this year.

Wilkins is inferior to all 3 other players by a large margin, he has no argument to weasel out of last place.

Bron is better than the other 3.

NYKalltheway
05-26-2013, 11:30 PM
Stop.

Durant is a better player than Drexler. Drexler never had a year as good as Durant this year.



1988, 1989, 1992 > any Durant season so far

also consider-> Clyde Drexler:


I really enjoyed the era I played in. Obviously the money would be better in this era. In this era in the era of no hand checking, my eyes light up when I think about that. I drove to the basket more than any player in the history of the game, probably. Woooooh. I would have loved it.

b@llhog24
05-26-2013, 11:52 PM
Yea 39% in the playoffs. Beastly.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2013, 12:01 AM
Pkay you keep mentioning one 'fun fact' about Drexler which doesn't mean anything. The guy was an amazing passer, had eyes everywhere and could kill you at any moment. You're comparing Kevin Durant to Drexler??? The same Durant that lost in 5 to Zach freaking Randolph with home court advantage? (if you wanna go that way)

Drexler was a top 5-10 player in the 90s(depending on if you rate bigs over guards). That alone speaks for his quality.

I have to be honest, I always considered you an intelligent poster, but you are really ******** the bed on this one. Durant is easily better. As is Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Paul, and some others from this generation.

NYKalltheway
05-27-2013, 12:41 AM
It's too early to compare Durant with guys like Drexler. I don't think you understand the capacity of Drexler's game, you've probably saw him a few times compared to other late 80s, early 90s stars given Portland's small market status in terms of the NBA and you got used to watching everyone these days.

If you compare Drexler and Lebron statistically, per 36 minutes, you'll find that Drexler is not as far behind. If you watched games back then, you'd notice that Drexler and other stars were rested in the 3rd and 4th quarters when the margin was great. Nowadays we see lots of stats padding. Another thing is that back in the day, if you were fouled on missed shot, your stat line would read 0-1. Today it reads 0-0 and you just hit your free throws. Don't remember when this was changed, somewhere in early 90s iirc. Guess who loses from that?

27.6 ppg for Lebron shooting 4 more shots and 3 more free throws than Drexler, who has 21.3 ppg and his career is over, so decline is measured as well which is unknown for Lebron as of now.
Assists and rebounds are pretty much a wash, with Lebron having an advantage of a few decimals. Also happens that Drexler was a SG while Lebron a SF who has played lots of PF lately. Drexler fouled like a normal player (3.2 pf), while Lebron is rarely called for fouls (1.7 pf). Blocks are pretty much the same despite height and size difference. Same as turnovers.

Don't even wanna talk about rule difference and the star treatment Lebron gets while Drexler was mostly on the other end of those calls. And most importantly don't wanna mention the competition each player had faced. Drexler beat Magic Johnson in his prime (+ another time in his last good season) while Lebron couldn't go past Rondo. (extreme example, but I like it :D )

I'm saying all this not because I think that statistically (which i don't give a rat's *** about as they lack basketball context) Drexler is not as inferior as some might suggest to Lebron James. If you use basketball logic and no bias when using those stats, you'll understand that they aren't far off statistically. Then you have the posiiton difference.

The game is different, back then you had more intense defense for the exterior players while the interior players were beating each other up and you're comparing apples to oranges. I'm not going to go further to talk about how overrated Lebron James, especially in all time rank lists, so I'll leave it here.

OceanSpray
05-27-2013, 12:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4

entertain us... Lebron a better post player than Nique? Lebron didn't even know what the post was until last January...

You couldn't be more wrong than these last few posts. Durant is one of the greatest scorers easily. Dominique was a great scorer but never to this extent. Durant's TS% is the scary part in that because he's excellent in almost all areas. Durant's offensive arsenal is much greater than Dominique. His length and height will dominate any era.

OceanSpray
05-27-2013, 12:50 AM
It's too early to compare Durant with guys like Drexler. I don't think you understand the capacity of Drexler's game, you've probably saw him a few times compared to other late 80s, early 90s stars given Portland's small market status in terms of the NBA and you got used to watching everyone these days.

If you compare Drexler and Lebron statistically, per 36 minutes, you'll find that Drexler is not as far behind. If you watched games back then, you'd notice that Drexler and other stars were rested in the 3rd and 4th quarters when the margin was great. Nowadays we see lots of stats padding. Another thing is that back in the day, if you were fouled on missed shot, your stat line would read 0-1. Today it reads 0-0 and you just hit your free throws. Don't remember when this was changed, somewhere in early 90s iirc. Guess who loses from that?

27.6 ppg for Lebron shooting 4 more shots and 3 more free throws than Drexler, who has 21.3 ppg and his career is over, so decline is measured as well which is unknown for Lebron as of now.
Assists and rebounds are pretty much a wash, with Lebron having an advantage of a few decimals. Also happens that Drexler was a SG while Lebron a SF who has played lots of PF lately. Drexler fouled like a normal player (3.2 pf), while Lebron is rarely called for fouls (1.7 pf). Blocks are pretty much the same despite height and size difference. Same as turnovers.

Don't even wanna talk about rule difference and the star treatment Lebron gets while Drexler was mostly on the other end of those calls. And most importantly don't wanna mention the competition each player had faced. Drexler beat Magic Johnson in his prime (+ another time in his last good season) while Lebron couldn't go past Rondo. (extreme example, but I like it :D )

I'm saying all this not because I think that statistically (which i don't give a rat's *** about as they lack basketball context) Drexler is not as inferior as some might suggest to Lebron James. If you use basketball logic and no bias when using those stats, you'll understand that they aren't far off statistically. Then you have the posiiton difference.

The game is different, back then you had more intense defense for the exterior players while the interior players were beating each other up and you're comparing apples to oranges. I'm not going to go further to talk about how overrated Lebron James, especially in all time rank lists, so I'll leave it here.

Overrated? Stat padding? Tougher defense? Is that why they scored more at a higher % in that era? The fact that you say James is overrated must be a joke. He's already an obvious top 5 player and has been light years above everyone; just like Jordan. Star treatment, hmm, reminds me of Jordan. James is a better rebounder, passer, scorer, and simply everything Drexler had. If you intend on refuting that, you're mistaken.

NYKalltheway
05-27-2013, 12:53 AM
You couldn't be more wrong than these last few posts. Durant is one of the greatest scorers easily. Dominique was a great scorer but never to this extent. Durant's TS% is the scary part in that because he's excellent in almost all areas. Durant's offensive arsenal is much greater than Dominique. His length and height will dominate any era.

George Gervin and Alex English say hello. Don't see their names in any (or most) top 20-30 list.



Overrated? Stat padding? Tougher defense? Is that why they scored more at a higher % in that era? The fact that you say James is overrated must be a joke. He's already an obvious top 5 player and has been light years above everyone; just like Jordan. Star treatment, hmm, reminds me of Jordan. James is a better rebounder, passer, scorer, and simply everything Drexler had. If you intend on refuting that, you're mistaken.



can someone who doesn't think the orange ball is a fruit reply?

basically this

Longhornfan1234
05-27-2013, 12:55 AM
Lol if lebron saw Clyde in his prime he would laugh lebron is a better scorer defender passer and you can argue shooter. I will admit Clyde is underrated but he is not no Lebron or Kevin Durant in my opinion, but to be fair I will admit it's to early to judge KD but based off of what I've seen from Clyde I just hink KD is much more dominate

Drexler is not underrated. He underachieved. He had more help than most stars in their prime.

OceanSpray
05-27-2013, 12:55 AM
George Gervin and Alex English say hello. Don't see their names in any (or most) top 20-30 list.







basically this

Basically this? You went from Dominique to Gervin and English? Good one, way to change the comparisons. James isn't an obvious top 5 player? Haha, okay, keep it up.

NYKalltheway
05-27-2013, 01:05 AM
Dude, who cares about the TS%? Can you use basketball terms to make an argument? You give me TS% and all that crap, I'll give you more names. Oh here's another. Adrian Dantley.

OceanSpray
05-27-2013, 01:10 AM
Dude, who cares about the TS%? Can you use basketball terms to make an argument? You give me TS% and all that crap, I'll give you more names. Oh here's another. Adrian Dantley.

Cause you don't know what it means? You turned your argument from Nique to English/Gervin when you realized how silly your post was. Then you pretend that you're right. You've turned this from a Nique vs Durant to a Durant vs NBA scorers. Get your head checked, you're not thinking correctly. Don't even bring James in.. He's lightyears above Drex.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2013, 01:35 AM
Dude, who cares about the TS%? Can you use basketball terms to make an argument? You give me TS% and all that crap, I'll give you more names. Oh here's another. Adrian Dantley.

did great players cease to exist post 1995 to you?

A Black Prophet
05-27-2013, 02:30 PM
Alex English is another underrated scorer you could make the case that he was probably a better overall scorer then Bernard

NYKalltheway
05-27-2013, 03:34 PM
did great players cease to exist post 1995 to you?

Not at all. But I can't consider someone as great as someone else, when he's playing in a league that makes cotton look hard.

A Black Prophet
05-27-2013, 03:40 PM
Not at all. But I can't consider someone as great as someone else,
when he's playing in a league that makes cotton look hard.

Wtf
So based off your logic since Lebron and Durant hasn't faced handcheckins that means every one that came before them are better then them based off that Logic Miller>Kobe

NYKalltheway
05-27-2013, 03:53 PM
Wtf
So based off your logic since Lebron and Durant hasn't faced handcheckins that means every one that came before them are better then them based off that Logic Miller>Kobe

Not really but suit yourself. I'm not gonna go over the self-evident.

A Black Prophet
05-27-2013, 03:57 PM
Not really but suit yourself. I'm not gonna go over the self-evident.

I take it you have no evidence to back up your claim so your just going to sit here and bring up hand checking thats it well be my guess

NYKalltheway
05-27-2013, 04:14 PM
I take it you have no evidence to back up your claim so your just going to sit here and bring up hand checking thats it well be my guess

You guessed wrong. I say you are 14-18 years old and have been listening/watching to too much ESPN and TNT and whatever other channels there are.

A Black Prophet
05-27-2013, 04:20 PM
You guessed wrong. I say you are 14-18 years old and have been listening/watching to too much ESPN and TNT and whatever other channels there are.

Atleast I actually watched these players play on a day to day basis and atleast im not a 90s nut hugger that cant accept the fact that Lebron and Durant are better scorers then wilkins and drexler

Laidback_Scrapp
05-27-2013, 05:01 PM
My memory may be fuzzy but don't remember nique or Clyde dominating the 90s. Maybe the 80s but I'm pretty sure mj shaq Hakeem sir Charles pippen etc dominated the 90s. And what is the damn question? Lebron n Durant> nique & clyde

bagwell368
05-27-2013, 06:10 PM
George Gervin and Alex English say hello. Don't see their names in any (or most) top 20-30 list.

As is proper as neither one of them could play D worth a damn, or at least were disinterested. This from a 55 year old that thinks the best hoops were played in the 80's.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2013, 06:13 PM
Not at all. But I can't consider someone as great as someone else, when he's playing in a league that makes cotton look hard.

such a fallacy. The league is tougher now. The defenses are better now. I am not alluding to the players today being better than yesterday, simply saying you are dead wrong in your stance.

Drexler is beneath Wade and Kobe at the SG position.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2013, 06:16 PM
George Gervin and Alex English say hello. Don't see their names in any (or most) top 20-30 list.


Neither guarded anyone. Ever. Two sides of the floor. And English played on a team with a frantic pace. For instance, one season in his high 20's per game average, the Nuggets were #1 in pace at 111 possessions per 48 minutes. The Rockets led the NBA this year with 96. That is a HUGE difference, and the reason for his, and many old timers, inflated per game numbers when comparing.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2013, 06:18 PM
My memory may be fuzzy but don't remember nique or Clyde dominating the 90s. Maybe the 80s but I'm pretty sure mj shaq Hakeem sir Charles pippen etc dominated the 90s. And what is the damn question? Lebron n Durant> nique & clyde

Jordan beat his Portland team in the early 90's. Clyde's peak came from 87-93. so it did stretch that gap. But yeah, I see where you getting fuzzy, it was right around the border of the decade. Had to check to make sure.

NYKalltheway
05-28-2013, 03:45 AM
Neither guarded anyone. Ever. Two sides of the floor. And English played on a team with a frantic pace. For instance, one season in his high 20's per game average, the Nuggets were #1 in pace at 111 possessions per 48 minutes. The Rockets led the NBA this year with 96. That is a HUGE difference, and the reason for his, and many old timers, inflated per game numbers when comparing.

Not disagreeing that the game is slower now, but the difference is that it's easier to drive in the paint now and there's more players who can drive and less than can stop them. So it sort of balances each other out.

Defenses are not tougher now, defenses were tough in the early 2000s if you wanna talk post-Golden Era. There are probably more defensive options, but having cleared lanes, no handchecking and defensive 3 in the key cannot be ignored. Calling defenses tougher is laughable when you factor the rule changes.


And there's no universe where Wade > Drexler.

NYKalltheway
05-28-2013, 03:46 AM
As is proper as neither one of them could play D worth a damn, or at least were disinterested. This from a 55 year old that thinks the best hoops were played in the 80's.

Never implied they should warrant top 30. The comparison was with Durant. Don't think he's more defense oriented than Gervin...

bagwell368
05-28-2013, 05:27 AM
Never implied they should warrant top 30. The comparison was with Durant. Don't think he's more defense oriented than Gervin...

Out of the gate, Durant wasn't much of a defender. Did you bother to watch him the last two years, or was your mind already made up? His D was by an order of magnitude better than Gervin or English.

bagwell368
05-28-2013, 05:36 AM
And there's no universe where Wade > Drexler.

Wade is a better shooter, has more APG, even though he plays at a slower pace. Wade is better in the regular season and in the playoffs career wise. Now of course, Wade hasn't hit his decline yet, so we'll have to wait around on that, but at peak? Wade > Drexler. If you like/use PER, Wade toasts Clyde in that too.

I like Clyde. He's a clear HOF, but, he's not as great as you make out.

A Black Prophet
05-30-2013, 04:53 PM
Wade is a better shooter, has more APG, even though he plays at a slower pace. Wade is better in the regular season and in the playoffs career wise. Now of course, Wade hasn't hit his decline yet, so we'll have to wait around on that, but at peak? Wade > Drexler. If you like/use PER, Wade toasts Clyde in that too.

I like Clyde. He's a clear HOF, but, he's not as great as you make out.

I was trying to argue that with him he said well they went against handchecking lol lol :clap: