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View Full Version : Torterella Needs To Go



Toon88
05-21-2013, 10:24 PM
Had enough of his brand of hockey. It lacks creativity and scoring punch. Its all dump the puck into the opponents board and go fight for it, No players in front of the net. The powr play is nonexistent. I don't think there is a team in the league with a worst run power play. There is no spacing when they skate up ice. It is always 3 Rangers bunched together getting in each other way and bringing defensemen right along in the same area. If it wasn't for Lundquist they wouldn't even make the playoffs.

im_cruzin
05-21-2013, 10:36 PM
Another coach takes this talent to the cup, too much of it!

nyr2002nyr
05-22-2013, 08:27 AM
Had enough of his brand of hockey. It lacks creativity and scoring punch. Its all dump the puck into the opponents board and go fight for it, No players in front of the net. The powr play is nonexistent. I don't think there is a team in the league with a worst run power play. There is no spacing when they skate up ice. It is always 3 Rangers bunched together getting in each other way and bringing defensemen right along in the same area. If it wasn't for Lundquist they wouldn't even make the playoffs.


Him and Slats! The guy makes great trades and is one of the worst ever at signing free agents its awful how these contracts have hampered us. This team has a small window and with these 2 its not getting any better make a move now. Bring in Ruff to coach and find a new GM

bsi
05-22-2013, 10:27 AM
No worries everyone, this is the end of the road for Torts.

mikel816
05-22-2013, 01:59 PM
I have no problem with Slats. I actually think he's done a great job. But Torts needs to go. I was never a fan of his. He was championed as being an offensive and power play guru but this team has been carried by its D and Lundqvist. I honestly believe and have since the change that if Tom Renney had had this much talent that he would have taken them to the cup.

fingerbang
05-22-2013, 02:12 PM
I have no problem with Slats. I actually think he's done a great job. But Torts needs to go. I was never a fan of his. He was championed as being an offensive and power play guru but this team has been carried by its D and Lundqvist. I honestly believe and have since the change that if Tom Renney had had this much talent that he would have taken them to the cup.

Sather is as much to blame as anyone. He's had 13 years and a lot of resources to build a championship team and a well coached, mistake free hockey team, that had a lot of luck got him into the ECF just once.

Sather hasn't built a real contender. Even if Torts pulled some coaching magic out of his *** and the Rangers got through Boston, would it be reasonable to expect the Rangers to get past Pittsburgh?

There's a lot a similarity between the Knicks and Rangers. The Knicks fans expect a championship even though they don't have the best team in the Eastern Conference. Same could be said about the Rangers.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-22-2013, 02:57 PM
I'd be fine with Slats and Gorton staying but we do need other changes.

NYSPORTS98
05-22-2013, 03:24 PM
The Rangers are playing the same style the Devils have played for years. Not to mention, the team who is kicking the Rangers tail right now from Boston.

NYR_NYJ
05-22-2013, 03:34 PM
No worries everyone, this is the end of the road for Torts.

No way. Hes getting a pass because of the Lockout IMO

nyr2002nyr
05-22-2013, 03:35 PM
I was going to list the bad Slats signing here but i didnt have enough room. Carry on that is all

nyr2002nyr
05-22-2013, 03:40 PM
No way. Hes getting a pass because of the Lockout IMO

He better not get a pass

bsi
05-22-2013, 04:32 PM
With regards to Slats, I'm definately on the fence on this one because he has been able to dig himself out of holes he's got himself into and ended up coming out smelling like roses, however I think that if he ends up having to buy out Richards this year, the Dolans will be wanting to replace him because between Richards, Redden and Drury he's cost that family a lot of money with long term deals that might not have needed to be signed.
Also someone mentioned Tom Renney but he would have done the same or less, they are almost carbon copies of each other with regards to style of play, less aggressive to his players but still a defense first mentality. I don't know why Tortorella can't change his game plan, it's painfully obvious it's not working anymore, it's become too predictable and teams have built plans to compete against NY. Tortorella never used this system in Tampa. My biggest concern now is that he's too stubborn to change his philosophy when it doesn't work, I always thought that he'd adjust when it became obvious it wasn't working but apparently he's gonna go down with the ship. I think with the influx of new talent ie Brassard, Moore, Kreider, Miller, McIlrath(soon), Clowe(maybe) we need a new coach and for all those reasons he must go this year. Tortorella is a much better coach than this, he's proven himself to adapt before I just have no idea why he won't do it now.
Now, since we have a brutal PP maybe since Alain Vigneaut is rumoured to be leaving Vancouver we could add him to the staff here, I think he'd be a good help to that unit. I'm sure there's other coaches as good or maybe better but I do know that he plays the type of system that everyone here seem to want.

NYSPORTS98
05-22-2013, 05:45 PM
No way. Hes getting a pass because of the Lockout IMO

He should get a pass. This team has

- no offensive defenseman
- no legit #1 center
- Staal (who many love) is out
- Kreider and Miller are still a year away
- Hagelin is basically Darren Turcotte

This team needs the young players to develop to add some significant pieces. Otherwise, it's not the coach as much as these players aren't that good. Count how many players actually have a hard shot. (3?)

Toon88
05-22-2013, 05:53 PM
Him and Slats! The guy makes great trades and is one of the worst ever at signing free agents its awful how these contracts have hampered us. This team has a small window and with these 2 its not getting any better make a move now. Bring in Ruff to coach and find a new GM

I think Slats geta pass because he's gotten the talent in here. If the coach can't coach them up then its back to the coach. Torterella has had enough talent come in here to get the Rangers deeper in the playoffs. Slats got him his guy from Tampa is Richards and he has been a mild bust. Now even Tort ain't playing. Totrt also does not know how to deal with players its his way of the highway. He ran Gaborik out of town, sent Krieder down last year and the same to J.T Miller. Another coach would be utilizing those guys talent instead of burying them.

Toon88
05-22-2013, 05:57 PM
I have no problem with Slats. I actually think he's done a great job. But Torts needs to go. I was never a fan of his. He was championed as being an offensive and power play guru but this team has been carried by its D and Lundqvist. I honestly believe and have since the change that if Tom Renney had had this much talent that he would have taken them to the cup.

It is painful to watch the Rangers go on the power play. I put that all on Tort and his arrogance. I can see him saying there is nothing wrong with my PPL. Who are the coaches that might be available to get this team to the next level?

NYR_NYJ
05-22-2013, 11:17 PM
I loved the Turcotte comparison. Lol.

runnermjr1296
05-23-2013, 09:24 AM
No worries everyone, this is the end of the road for Torts.

I don't agree I think he gets a pass because of the strike but I also think if they start out slow next season he's gone, but yours is one opinion that I respect so please tell me why you think so and name me a possible replacement.
And let me say this regardless of everyone screaming about his "style of play" they are not winning any races to the puck and I don't think that is in his "style of play". Believe me I know the power play stinks but 2 things,, I think we really miss Clowe there,and damn they are so friggin slow!!! every pass is telegraphed,the goalie and D have so much time to move with the puck and know which direction its coming from. The power play should be bang bang bang,every time it is they score.

bsi
05-23-2013, 09:52 AM
I don't agree I think he gets a pass because of the strike but I also think if they start out slow next season he's gone, but yours is one opinion that I respect so please tell me why you think so and name me a possible replacement.
And let me say this regardless of everyone screaming about his "style of play" they are not winning any races to the puck and I don't think that is in his "style of play". Believe me I know the power play stinks but 2 things,, I think we really miss Clowe there,and damn they are so friggin slow!!! every pass is telegraphed,the goalie and D have so much time to move with the puck and know which direction its coming from. The power play should be bang bang bang,every time it is they score.

My biggest concern with Tortorella right now is that he doesn't adjust anymore. I really think he's tired of it all too, and I think he's gonna be the guy that takes the fall not Sather, and he probably should. Why is it that after his whole time here he hasn't been able to put a PP together, something that would guarantee his style of play would benefit this team. Without a PP his system stinks because what are you defending for? Usually teams that do that defend until they get a PP, make hay on the PP and go back to locking the game down. Right now he's defending for the sake of defending, if we had a good PP that got a goal a game it would work.

I mean, I can watch their games and realize that a lot of the reason we're not getting the puck out in a way that benefits us is because our forwards are too low and we're allowing the D to either have time to decide what to do with it when it comes to the line, or we're allowing them time to pinch and hold it in. The only way we get it out now is to chip it out and then it comes right back in, a lot of times before we can even get a line change. Push the forwards closer to the D, make them think twice about getting burned by Nash, Hagelin, Zuccarello etc's speed I guarantee you we'll either get a smoother breakout or more odd man rushes/breakaways. Also, a lot of Boston's offense is generated from the blueline.

As for replacements there was a whole staff got let go in Vancouver that I'd hire in a heartbeat to replace this staff. The problems in Vancouver come down to the GM not getting a Luongo deal done, having that issue hang over them all year and not getting a good player in return and Kesler's injuries. If we want our PP to thrive those are the guys to do it.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-23-2013, 01:32 PM
My biggest concern with Tortorella right now is that he doesn't adjust anymore. I really think he's tired of it all too, and I think he's gonna be the guy that takes the fall not Sather, and he probably should. Why is it that after his whole time here he hasn't been able to put a PP together, something that would guarantee his style of play would benefit this team. Without a PP his system stinks because what are you defending for? Usually teams that do that defend until they get a PP, make hay on the PP and go back to locking the game down. Right now he's defending for the sake of defending, if we had a good PP that got a goal a game it would work.

I mean, I can watch their games and realize that a lot of the reason we're not getting the puck out in a way that benefits us is because our forwards are too low and we're allowing the D to either have time to decide what to do with it when it comes to the line, or we're allowing them time to pinch and hold it in. The only way we get it out now is to chip it out and then it comes right back in, a lot of times before we can even get a line change. Push the forwards closer to the D, make them think twice about getting burned by Nash, Hagelin, Zuccarello etc's speed I guarantee you we'll either get a smoother breakout or more odd man rushes/breakaways. Also, a lot of Boston's offense is generated from the blueline.

As for replacements there was a whole staff got let go in Vancouver that I'd hire in a heartbeat to replace this staff. The problems in Vancouver come down to the GM not getting a Luongo deal done, having that issue hang over them all year and not getting a good player in return and Kesler's injuries. If we want our PP to thrive those are the guys to do it.

In bold is a good and important point. We pack in 4-5 guys below the circles in front of Lundy. It does help in some ways but the negatives outweigh the positives in the long run.

QUBobcats550
05-24-2013, 01:17 AM
I think Slats geta pass because he's gotten the talent in here. If the coach can't coach them up then its back to the coach. Torterella has had enough talent come in here to get the Rangers deeper in the playoffs. Slats got him his guy from Tampa is Richards and he has been a mild bust. Now even Tort ain't playing. Totrt also does not know how to deal with players its his way of the highway. He ran Gaborik out of town, sent Krieder down last year and the same to J.T Miller. Another coach would be utilizing those guys talent instead of burying them.

Well said. Sather has provided the talent to win, Torts just hasn't been able to put it all together.

QUBobcats550
05-24-2013, 01:29 AM
He should get a pass. This team has

- no offensive defenseman
- no legit #1 center
- Staal (who many love) is out
- Kreider and Miller are still a year away
- Hagelin is basically Darren Turcotte

This team needs the young players to develop to add some significant pieces. Otherwise, it's not the coach as much as these players aren't that good. Count how many players actually have a hard shot. (3?)

We have offensive defensemen in Del Zotto and Stralman, but I think it all comes back to Tort's system. How do we know Kreider and Miller are a year away? We barely get a chance to see them play at a consistent rate without Torts sending them to the 4th line or making them a healthy scratch. Just let them play and learn from firsthand experience. I feel like Torts is only stunting their development.

nyr2002nyr
05-24-2013, 08:22 AM
I think Slats geta pass because he's gotten the talent in here. If the coach can't coach them up then its back to the coach. Torterella has had enough talent come in here to get the Rangers deeper in the playoffs. Slats got him his guy from Tampa is Richards and he has been a mild bust. Now even Tort ain't playing. Totrt also does not know how to deal with players its his way of the highway. He ran Gaborik out of town, sent Krieder down last year and the same to J.T Miller. Another coach would be utilizing those guys talent instead of burying them.


Slats should be fired on the bad contracts alone he has given out and cost the team $$$$


Besides i havent forgiven him for signing TROTTIER

NYSPORTS98
05-25-2013, 01:09 PM
We have offensive defensemen in Del Zotto and Stralman, but I think it all comes back to Tort's system. nt.

Respectfully, neither has much of a shot, can qb the pp or worry any opponent when skating the puck up ice. Their offensive ceiling is considerably lower than a legit offensive defenseman.

bsi
05-25-2013, 05:03 PM
I think McDonagh has taken over as our PP quarterback really.

notoriousbig21
05-25-2013, 08:24 PM
I think Torts wrote his ticket outta here when he left hamirlik out on the ice after a whistle and hamirlik proceeded to turn the puck over twice on the next shift leading to the go ahead goal

bsi
05-25-2013, 08:43 PM
Torts punched his ticket with his inability to generate anything on the PP. Special Teams are important in playoffs and our PK wasn't good and our PP was terrible. His whole tenure here he's had a bad PP.

NYSPORTS98
05-25-2013, 08:53 PM
Torts punched his ticket with his inability to generate anything on the PP. Special Teams are important in playoffs and our PK wasn't good and our PP was terrible. His whole tenure here he's had a bad PP.

Punched his ticket? The team has zero offensive defenseman with a shot and all have medicore breakout passes. The Team was quite miserable for a decade plus. This is the first time the team has shown any consistency despite roster with quite a few players hyped well beyond their ability.

bsi
05-25-2013, 09:08 PM
Punched his ticket? The team has zero offensive defenseman with a shot and all have medicore breakout passes. The Team was quite miserable for a decade plus. This is the first time the team has shown any consistency despite roster with quite a few players hyped well beyond their ability.

How does a guy not have a decent powerplay when he has these players over the course of the season.
Nash, Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, Zuccarello, Brassard, Boyle McDonagh, Moore, DelZotto? I can guarantee that Mike Babcock, Paul MacLean, Joel Quinnville, etc etc all would have made a decent powerplay with some of those players. He's had ample time to get a decent powerplay going and it took him until tonight to get Boyle to plant himself in front of the net, he had a giant man with good hands to put in front and he never did until tonight. Imagine Mike Babcock putting Holmstrom on the side wall. I've been someone who has defended Tortorella because I blamed the team for being lazy, and that's still true but nothing is going to change without changing the coach, we're gonna be looking at the same thing this time next year. This team was favoured by many to win the cup, that's laughable now.

The guy took Brad Richards and reduced him to nothing, Richards has never had a year in his life like he did this year. On a team that was struggling to score he replaced Brad Richards with Michael Haley. Looking at Hendrik and hearing his comments post game the last couple weeks it's become apparent he's getting tired carrying this team.

NYSPORTS98
05-25-2013, 09:20 PM
How does a guy not have a decent powerplay when he has these players over the course of the season.
Nash, Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, Zuccarello, Brassard, Boyle McDonagh, Moore, DelZotto? I can guarantee that Mike Babcock, Paul MacLean, Joel Quinnville, etc etc all would have made a decent powerplay with some of those players. He's had ample time to get a decent powerplay going and it took him until tonight to get Boyle to plant himself in front of the net, he had a giant man with good hands to put in front and he never did until tonight. Imagine Mike Babcock putting Holmstrom on the side wall. I've been someone who has defended Tortorella because I blamed the team for being lazy, and that's still true but nothing is going to change without changing the coach, we're gonna be looking at the same thing this time next year. This team was favoured by many to win the cup, that's laughable now.

The guy took Brad Richards and reduced him to nothing, Richards has never had a year in his life like he did this year. On a team that was struggling to score he replaced Brad Richards with Michael Haley.

Brad Richards sucked and isn't half the player he was in Tampa. That's Torts fault? None of those names mentioned can work a pp and none besides Nash has a legit shot. Listen to the post game. The Bruins runs basically the same system yet have contributions from the young backline. Who shot the puck with any authoirty on the Rangers backline? We heard the same nonsense when the early 90's teams were grossly overrated. Few Rangers won the battle on the boards, Staal and Clowe didn't even play while Hagelin and DelZotto were hopeless. Oh yeah, and Richards was the worst on the roster. He was pathetic and that's not the coach. He couldn't pass, shoot, skate or do anything.

Want a new coach? How will these players beat the Bruins on the boards? Who shoots the puck from the point? Who has a shot? The defenseman can barley skate out of their own end let alone threaten an opponent offensivley.

bsi
05-25-2013, 09:43 PM
Brad Richards sucked and isn't half the player he was in Tampa. That's Torts fault? None of those names mentioned can work a pp and none besides Nash has a legit shot. Listen to the post game. The Bruins runs basically the same system yet have contributions from the young backline. Who shot the puck with any authoirty on the Rangers backline? We heard the same nonsense when the early 90's teams were grossly overrated. Few Rangers won the battle on the boards, Staal and Clowe didn't even play while Hagelin and DelZotto were hopeless. Oh yeah, and Richards was the worst on the roster. He was pathetic and that's not the coach. He couldn't pass, shoot, skate or do anything.

Want a new coach? How will these players beat the Bruins on the boards? Who shoots the puck from the point? Who has a shot? The defenseman can barley skate out of their own end let alone threaten an opponent offensivley.

Our entire issue here with the breakout as I've stated before is that our forwards are pretty much beside our D-men, they are too low in our end and when our D get the puck the either have to rim it around the boards, high off the glass or go back the other way with it. The battles we lost in this series weren't on the walls, we lost this series because we didn't force their D to make mistakes at our blueline, they had it easy, they didn't have any pressure and they had plenty of time to make a play when it came to the line. We also had a terrible powerplay, I don't care who is running the team, a blind man could make a powerplay with any combination of Nash, Brassard, Stepan, Richards, Moore, Callahan, Zuccarello, Boyle, DelZotto and McDonagh on the ice. There's no problem with the talent.

With regards to the Richards is terrible stuff. Marian Gaborik was terrible in NY too, he was being benched, shoved down the lines of the roster as well and he leaves and becomes a scoring threat the first game he plays again with Columbus and continues to be one until years end. I guarantee if Richards leaves here he'll be back to his old self. Tortorella's system of defense first relies on a working PP, you can't defend all night and expect to win if you don't score on your PP. For that reason I'm done with him. His system is one that will work, but he needs a PP for it to be successful otherwise you're just trapped in your end all night for no reason.

NYSPORTS98
05-25-2013, 09:59 PM
Our entire issue here with the breakout as I've stated before is that our forwards are pretty much beside our D-men, they are too low in our end and when our D get the puck the either have to rim it around the boards, high off the glass or go back the other way with it. The battles we lost in this series weren't on the walls, we lost this series because we didn't force their D to make mistakes at our blueline, they had it easy, they didn't have any pressure and they had plenty of time to make a play when it came to the line. We also had a terrible powerplay, I don't care who is running the team, a blind man could make a powerplay with any combination of Nash, Brassard, Stepan, Richards, Moore, Callahan, Zuccarello, Boyle, DelZotto and McDonagh on the ice. There's no problem with the talent.

With regards to the Richards is terrible stuff. Marian Gaborik was terrible in NY too, he was being benched, shoved down the lines of the roster as well and he leaves and becomes a scoring threat the first game he plays again with Columbus and continues to be one until years end. I guarantee if Richards leaves here he'll be back to his old self. Tortorella's system of defense first relies on a working PP, you can't defend all night and expect to win if you don't score on your PP. For that reason I'm done with him. His system is one that will work, but he needs a PP for it to be successful otherwise you're just trapped in your end all night for no reason.

Gaborik was terrible too? SO was Luc Robataille, so was Bure, so was Gomez, so was Drury, so was Holik, so was Redden, etc. Name the player on the roster with a decent shot from the point. Have you heard the coach on WFAN with Francessa claiming the team is missing a shot from the point? He said it three times in three interviews. Who passes well at the point? Heck, this offense has passed like shiat on the PP for a decade b/c the only talent they had was Jagr (who the fed non-stop b/c nobody else could shoot the puck). The team has grinders who can't shoot and shooters who can't grind (some can barely shoot the puck with any velocity). Where is the legit banger on the backline along with a legit skater and legit shot from the point. It's a medicore team with a goalie who stands on his head and stole a series from a Washington team who dominated the series often. Not to mention, the great Ovechkin missed the net non-stop for the 2nd playoff in a row.

As far as forcing the Bruins defenseman. Who can even carry the puck up with consistency? How many forwards win on the boards? What team are you watching? That was a Bruins team which punished a Canucks team in the finals a few years back and practically the entire team returned. What makes this 6th place team so special besides the goalie? Outside of our Columbus connection of Nash and Brassard, the Rangers roster/system hasn't produced much offensive talent for any coach to maximize. Let alone a Brad Richards who doesn't do anything (skate, pass, shoot, hit, etc. He holds the puck too long and loses it). That's not the coach and opening up the game isn't suddenly going to make this guy fly around the ice.

nyr2002nyr
05-26-2013, 01:50 AM
Punched his ticket? The team has zero offensive defenseman with a shot and all have medicore breakout passes. The Team was quite miserable for a decade plus. This is the first time the team has shown any consistency despite roster with quite a few players hyped well beyond their ability.

Yeah I think he got himself fired and IMO its a good move.

nyr2002nyr
05-26-2013, 01:55 AM
Our entire issue here with the breakout as I've stated before is that our forwards are pretty much beside our D-men, they are too low in our end and when our D get the puck the either have to rim it around the boards, high off the glass or go back the other way with it. The battles we lost in this series weren't on the walls, we lost this series because we didn't force their D to make mistakes at our blueline, they had it easy, they didn't have any pressure and they had plenty of time to make a play when it came to the line. We also had a terrible powerplay, I don't care who is running the team, a blind man could make a powerplay with any combination of Nash, Brassard, Stepan, Richards, Moore, Callahan, Zuccarello, Boyle, DelZotto and McDonagh on the ice. There's no problem with the talent.

With regards to the Richards is terrible stuff. Marian Gaborik was terrible in NY too, he was being benched, shoved down the lines of the roster as well and he leaves and becomes a scoring threat the first game he plays again with Columbus and continues to be one until years end. I guarantee if Richards leaves here he'll be back to his old self. Tortorella's system of defense first relies on a working PP, you can't defend all night and expect to win if you don't score on your PP. For that reason I'm done with him. His system is one that will work, but he needs a PP for it to be successful otherwise you're just trapped in your end all night for no reason.

The collapsing d he loves to play makes me sick to watch and it kills us trying to get out of the zone. Torts seems to want all the lines to be the same he wants grinders and so much so he makes 40 goal snipers play like one.


This says it all


marc savard ‏@MSavvy91 23 May
Tortorella should get fired right after the game he has ruined all of his players confidence

bsi
05-26-2013, 05:15 AM
Gaborik was terrible too? SO was Luc Robataille, so was Bure, so was Gomez, so was Drury, so was Holik, so was Redden, etc. Name the player on the roster with a decent shot from the point. Have you heard the coach on WFAN with Francessa claiming the team is missing a shot from the point? He said it three times in three interviews. Who passes well at the point? Heck, this offense has passed like shiat on the PP for a decade b/c the only talent they had was Jagr (who the fed non-stop b/c nobody else could shoot the puck). The team has grinders who can't shoot and shooters who can't grind (some can barely shoot the puck with any velocity). Where is the legit banger on the backline along with a legit skater and legit shot from the point. It's a medicore team with a goalie who stands on his head and stole a series from a Washington team who dominated the series often. Not to mention, the great Ovechkin missed the net non-stop for the 2nd playoff in a row.

As far as forcing the Bruins defenseman. Who can even carry the puck up with consistency? How many forwards win on the boards? What team are you watching? That was a Bruins team which punished a Canucks team in the finals a few years back and practically the entire team returned. What makes this 6th place team so special besides the goalie? Outside of our Columbus connection of Nash and Brassard, the Rangers roster/system hasn't produced much offensive talent for any coach to maximize. Let alone a Brad Richards who doesn't do anything (skate, pass, shoot, hit, etc. He holds the puck too long and loses it). That's not the coach and opening up the game isn't suddenly going to make this guy fly around the ice.

Tortorella summed it up himself.
"I think one of the big things in this series is I could not -- and it does, it falls on me -- itís a big part of my job to get your top players to play consistently, and I couldnít do that," Tortorella said.
You're assuming Brad Richards is done, I guarantee he isn't. Maybe Rick Nash is done too, or Derek Stepan is done, or Ryan Callahan is done too because none of them played well this series. Not one of our skilled forwards outside of Brassard had anything to add offensively this series. The only two forwards that flourished under Torts this post season were Boyle and Brassard.

On the hot stove they were discussing this last night and one of them said that the Rangers needed a new coach because Tortorella was unable to coach the top guys on the team, he was able to coach the Brian Boyles and the Taylor Pyatt's of the team but was unable to keep his top players playing at a top level. This is his biggest problem. Rick Nash is a bigger window into this problem than Richards, there's nothing wrong with his skill level, zero, he's young, he's big, he's fast, he can shoot and yet he's not used in a way that benefits him. You mentioned Jagr before well guess what we have a Jagr type right now, his name is Rick Nash and he's being misused in a way that makes him less effective than Brian Boyle. Figure that one out.

NYSPORTS98
05-26-2013, 08:52 AM
Tortorella summed it up himself.
"I think one of the big things in this series is I could not -- and it does, it falls on me -- it’s a big part of my job to get your top players to play consistently, and I couldn’t do that," Tortorella said.
You're assuming Brad Richards is done, I guarantee he isn't. Maybe Rick Nash is done too, or Derek Stepan is done, or Ryan Callahan is done too because none of them played well this series. .


How did the Rangers coaches post 1994 do in the playoffs? How many years in a row did the team miss the playoffs? Besides everybody begging Jagr to take every shot on the PP, who else displayed any offensive competence on the PP with coaches besides Torts? None did.

Torts has finally brought some stability to an otherwise unstable organization. Without Lundy, the team doesn't even make the playoffs. The rest of the team isn't that good. It's no different than the Vanbiesbrouck years when Johnny stood on his head and the forwards were eclipsed by the Washington defense. It was no different in this series or the Devils series last season. The forwards, who shouldn't even need a coach to complete a pass during a power play, are medicore/poor (especially against larger opponents (a la Ottawa in the playoffs last year). The defenseman add ziltch to the rush and none have a shot. No coach or scheme is going to change that. The team doesn't have a #1 center, #1 go to offensive defenseman, really no banger on the backline (which is why Dylan was drafted), etc.

bsi
05-26-2013, 08:56 AM
How did the Rangers coaches post 1994 do in the playoffs? How many years in a row did the team miss the playoffs? Besides everybody begging Jagr to take every shot on the PP, who else displayed any offensive competence on the PP with coaches besides Torts? None did. Torts has finally brought some stability to an otherwise unstable organization. Without Lundy, the team doesn't even make the playoffs. The rest of the team isn't that good. It's no different than the Vanbiesbrouck years when Johnny stood on his head and the forwards were eclipsed by the Washington defense. It was no different in this series or the Devils series last season. The forwards, who shouldn't even need a coach to complete a pass during a power play, are medicore/poor (especially against larger opponents (a la Ottawa in the playoffs last year). The defenseman add ziltch to the rush and none have a shot. No coach or scheme is going to change that. The team doesn't have a #1 center, #1 go to offensive defenseman, really no banger on the backline (which is why Dylan was drafted), etc.

LUNDQVIST brought stability to an otherwise unstable franchise, not Tortorella, under this system without Lundqvist we're in the toilet.Granted the team we had last year fit the mold of our system, more bottom six than top 6, but this year the coach had to adjust and he didn't. Our forwards aren't mediocre. There's not too many teams that wouldn't trade forwards with us in the league, it's the same reason many predicted us to win the cup. We started the season with Nash, Gaborik, Richards. Two multiple 30 goals scorers and a consistant 70 point guy who was up until he got to NY the premier powerplay QB in the league. The problem is that our forwards aren't being used to their full potential. Our skilled forwards are being made to play like 3rd liners and shot blockers, made to collapse down low so far that a breakout is pretty near impossible as you are now below the forwards and the D forcing us to dump it out and have the other team gain possesion again.
We had one period where the team was allowed to take chances and it was our best period we had all playoffs, game 4 third period. Our D were activated, our forwards were cheating a bit and we held on to the puck more instead of dumping it. Unfortunately as soon as that game was over we went back into our collapse.

NYSPORTS98
05-26-2013, 09:41 AM
LUNDQVIST brought stability to an otherwise unstable franchise, not Tortorella, under this system without Lundqvist we're in the toilet., it's the same reason many predicted us to win the cup. We started the season with Nash, Gaborik, Richards. Two multiple 30 goals scorers and a consistant 70 point guy who was up until he got to NY the premier powerplay QB in the league.

See Vanbiesbrouck in net with Bernie Nicholls and Mike Gartner. The team had little else as does this team.



The problem is that our forwards aren't being used to their full potential. Our skilled forwards are being made to play like 3rd liners and shot blockers, .

Regardless of system, how come they can't pass or shoot then? Sure, they can make a few plays on the rush but who can set up a play in the offensive zone? Who wants to shoot the puck? Where is the offensive defenseman? Heck, I've seen this guys in warm ups and the shot power is comical. Most can't even snap the biscuit on a pass let alone a shot. It's not the coach.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-26-2013, 11:29 AM
I agree it is definitely time to make a change. Torts did some good things here but his time has come. I look at it like a lawn mower spark plug. When he replaced the other spark plug we got some better results but as time went on that spark plug declined to where it sputters 5 years later and it now needs to be changed.

BSI spoke about our breakout. That has been obvious to me for a while. Other teams break out as a unit with speed and score goals on the rush. Almost everything is up the boards. So when other teams adjust to that we need to adjust as well just like the Bruins players do. We break out 1-2 people at a time and our main goal is to start our offense from behind the goal line not on the rush. We look to score goals more often than not on broken plays instead of well executed breakouts. As a football analogy we are a team that is fine rushing the ball 50 times a game for 3 yards at a time with no long passing game. It is a very conservative offense that will only score 1-2 goals a game usually.

On the other end our defense often packs 5 guys below the face off dots. Somebody equated it to the rope a dope defense that an older former champ used to use once his skills had eroded a bit. I look at it in a different way. Again to use a football analogy I look at it as a team that drops 8 guys in coverage and only rushes 3 guys. We leave therefore give the QB all sorts of time to look over the field till eventually the defense breaks. In our case we leave the other teams point men too wide open. The Rangers skaters have to skate 20-40 feet to get to them.

This week I saw 3 current/former players from other teams rip Torts and call for him to be fired. I have never seen any other teams players do that before. I was really surprised by that but if they can see what happens we as fans should also see what is happening. Torts has made a system that is safe safe safe but not effective. We will not give up a lot of goals but it makes our margin of mistakes so slim that the other team is almost always in every game as well. This game is about speed. This game is about teamwork. This game is about fun. Our players do not have those qualities in this system. They know it is not working and you can see they lack confidence.

If anyone has had a job with a horribly rude boss you might understand what it is like to be under Torts at times. I do not like Larry Brooks so I was okay when he treated Brooks badly but that disrespect was not called for when it came to long time Ranger announcer Sam Rosen. Nor Pat Leonard of the Daily News.

I'm not trying to demonize Torts. I think Torts has some positives as well as his negatives. I think he did some good things for this organization. I thank him for that and I wish him well but it is time for a change. I'm 100% excited before every new season. If Torts is still here next season I doubt I will have that annual excitement.

fingerbang
05-26-2013, 12:11 PM
He shouldn't be fired. The team's expectations before the start of the season were all built on the belief that Gaborik, Nash, and Richards would play well.

nyr1980
05-26-2013, 12:48 PM
It's not Torts. And at the risk of sounding as if I'm making excuses for the guy, the loss of depth from the Nash trade and losing Prust, Feds, and Miller to FA last summer hurt them. No training camp hurt them, especially when you consider how well Torts teams have been conditioned, and not being able to do that was a detriment. Having to break in new guys w/o camp hurt them.

Richards and Gaborik were not good this year. That happens. Richards skill has eroded some, though I believe there is still some good hockey there. I believe Richards will be bought out, but I don't think he is finished and has 1-2 nice seasons left in him. Torts was right when he said Richards not playing during the lockout hurt him.

Younger guys didn't develop, namely Kreider. I don't think Torts mismanaged him. 48 game season where they were up and down, he couldn't run him out there like I believe he would have in a full 82-game season. A kid like him needs minutes, and Torts was not in a position to give them to him.

No true offensive defenseman who can run a PP, plus no heavy shot anywhere on this team hurts them.

Hagelin is not a top-6. Very good third liner, but not a top six.

Top six should look like Stepan and Brassard down the middle, with Nash, Callahan, Kreider and someone else rounding out the wings. Really impressed with Brassard. Showing why he's a former high first rounder. Lots of upside there still. Not a huge fan of Zuccarello. Nice skill, but he won't ever produce enough points.

I do think Torts needs to open it up some more though. With an excellent group of defenseman and the worlds best goalie, he can afford to play more aggressively on the offensive side.

All in all, team needs another goal scorer, which I believe is in house with Kreider, another centerman, which I believe is in-house with Miller, who I think will be a nice two-way guy, and a defenseman for the PP.

It's not Torts, roster is missing pieces.

nyr1980
05-26-2013, 12:59 PM
They also need to make some adjustment as far as coaching goes on the PP. I think Sullivan is excellent at coaching the D, but he couldn't coach a PP to save his life.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-26-2013, 01:09 PM
We can keep changing players year after year but as long as we play this ridiculously easy to defend breakout system, 6 goalie defensive system, and no clue PP system we will never ever ever win the cup in my opinion.

I also think Torts drains guys over time. NHL players from other teams see it and have spoken out this week about it. I see it. I thank Torts for his time. I think he did some good things but his time has come to move in. Most coaches in the NHL do not last forever. Most NHL coaches have shelf lives. Torts easily falls in to that category in my opinion.

nyr1980
05-26-2013, 01:31 PM
Torts also has a year left on his deal. They're not going to eat the money. He gets a pass for having a great season last year and having this year somewhat fouled up because of a lockout.

I get the talk regarding Torts. On a level it is justified. It's frustrating to see a team with high expectations back slide. But he's not getting the axe.

It's a moot point. He'll get the last year on his deal.

fingerbang
05-26-2013, 01:32 PM
I can understand the frustration with the power play but it's not all coaching. The Rangers don't have a decent shot from the point. People joke about Torts playing Girardi on the point but the real joke is that he's probably their most reliable shooter. The Rangers just don't have a good shooter that they can set up one timers for.

Here's the list of shots for defenseman from this year:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20132ALLDADALL&sort=shots&viewName=summary

Here's last year:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20132ALLDADALL&sort=shots&viewName=summary

McDonagh's the only Ranger to crack the top 30 and he did it this year. We've all seen his shot, we know it's not deadly.

Remember when Jagr sniped corners on the power play? Does Nash do that?

Gaborik's gone, Richards will most likely be bought out, who will the Rangers rely on for power play production? Brassard and Boyle I guess. :laugh2:

bsi
05-26-2013, 01:39 PM
Regardless of system, how come they can't pass or shoot then? Sure, they can make a few plays on the rush but who can set up a play in the offensive zone? Who wants to shoot the puck? Where is the offensive defenseman? Heck, I've seen this guys in warm ups and the shot power is comical. Most can't even snap the biscuit on a pass let alone a shot. It's not the coach.

DelZotto made one mistake in the middle of the game and he was planted on the bench for the rest of the 2nd, there's no way he's gonna take some more chances rushing the puck or trying to pinch on a play after being singled out. This was in a game where we didn't have ANY extra defensemen and was probably the reason we had Hamrlik out there for the double give away. I'm sorry but if Torts is gonna bench someone for taking a chance then I guess the message is to not take chances. All of those things you're talking about are part of Torts game plan, not the players. Brad Richards or Rick Nash never had any problems setting up plays before, this system doesn't suit their style and if Tortorella won't adjust to the players he has instead of trying to ship players in and out then it's painfully obvious for the reasons you just pointed out and the reasons I've pointed out that his time has run out. We can't continue to waste years of our elite goalie and continue to fail, the Rangers as a franchise owe it to Hendrik for all that he does to try and make this team a cup contender. Something has to change, we've changed our roster twice for Torts and that didn't work, it's now time to change the coach.

bsi
05-26-2013, 01:47 PM
I can understand the frustration with the power play but it's not all coaching. The Rangers don't have a decent shot from the point. People joke about Torts playing Girardi on the point but the real joke is that he's probably their most reliable shooter. The Rangers just don't have a good shooter that they can set up one timers for.

Here's the list of shots for defenseman from this year:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20132ALLDADALL&sort=shots&viewName=summary

Here's last year:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20132ALLDADALL&sort=shots&viewName=summary

McDonagh's the only Ranger to crack the top 30 and he did it this year. We've all seen his shot, we know it's not deadly.

Remember when Jagr sniped corners on the power play? Does Nash do that?

Gaborik's gone, Richards will most likely be bought out, who will the Rangers rely on for power play production? Brassard and Boyle I guess. :laugh2:

While it's helpful to have a boomer on the point for a PP it's not necessary if you set up right. I can figure out to put Boyle in front of the net 2 years ago, why did it take Tortorella this long to finally do that? If the goalie can't see the shot he is gonna have a hard time stopping it, whether it's a 100mph or a 85mph shot it doesn't matter. and we have a 6'7 guy with good hands sitting at the top of the circle or in behind the net cycling the puck, it doesnt' make sense at all. Secondly we have plenty of guys we can use for a one timer cross ice in Nash, Zuccarello, Brassard and Stepan. The PP doesn't always have to work from a booming shot from the point, it is the simplest way to run a PP but it's not the only way, the coach never adjusted his PP to his players, he was trying to adjust his players to his PP, that's his biggest fault and the reason we don't have the same roster 2 years in a row.

fingerbang
05-26-2013, 01:55 PM
While it's helpful to have a boomer on the point for a PP it's not necessary if you set up right. I can figure out to put Boyle in front of the net 2 years ago, why did it take Tortorella this long to finally do that? If the goalie can't see the shot he is gonna have a hard time stopping it, whether it's a 100mph or a 85mph shot it doesn't matter. and we have a 6'7 guy with good hands sitting at the top of the circle or in behind the net cycling the puck, it doesnt' make sense at all. Secondly we have plenty of guys we can use for a one timer cross ice in Nash, Zuccarello, Brassard and Stepan. The PP doesn't always have to work from a booming shot from the point, it is the simplest way to run a PP but it's not the only way, the coach never adjusted his PP to his players, he was trying to adjust his players to his PP, that's his biggest fault and the reason we don't have the same roster 2 years in a row.

You don't have to have a big shot from the point but you have to make up for it somewhere else. The Rangers don't have a slick playmaker. Overall, the Rangers are a very bad passing team. If the team can't move the puck around without botching passes the best bet is to just get the puck to the point and try to clean up rebounds. But if you don't have a player that can consistently put the puck on net from the point you're ****ed.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-26-2013, 01:55 PM
Torts also has a year left on his deal. They're not going to eat the money. He gets a pass for having a great season last year and having this year somewhat fouled up because of a lockout.

I get the talk regarding Torts. On a level it is justified. It's frustrating to see a team with high expectations back slide. But he's not getting the axe.

It's a moot point. He'll get the last year on his deal.

Throwing away 60 million in salaries to save Torts 1 year of salary is a bad way to go in my opinion. Guys like Nash and Lundy do not have a lot of prime years left. I think the results we get under Torts coaching will decline not get better at this point. I view Torts coaching as a fruit that was once ripe but has started to rot. It will continue to rot and get worse the longer he stays in my opinion. He is as stubborn and petulant as any coach we have ever had. He has had parts of 5 seasons here. He is not going to change his breakouts or defensive system. I say it is time to give somebody else a chance.

As far as a hard shot from the point goes we have brought in guys with hard shots from the point in the past under Torts. It did not improve our PP dramatically and they were let go. John Moore has a hard shot. 1 game we were told he would be running our power play. Then the next game he was off the power play.

nyr1980
05-26-2013, 02:06 PM
I don't think the money on his deal, whatever it is, should be or is the reason to keep him around, primarily. It's a part of it, but all in all, I think he's done enough to take one more crack with this team moving forward.

You can't put Richards on him. He's flourished in this system before. I think the system didn't work as well this year due to personnel issues- lost depth, no camp, etc.

I will agree that Torts needs to open things up some more. As I said, his goal tending and defensemen allow for it.

And it's not just a boomer from the point, but a true shooter and trigger man for the PP.

fingerbang
05-26-2013, 02:09 PM
Throwing away 60 million in salaries to save Torts 1 year of salary is a bad way to go in my opinion. Guys like Nash and Lundy do not have a lot of prime years left. I think the results we get under Torts coaching will decline not get better at this point. I view Torts coaching as a fruit that was once ripe but has started to rot. It will continue to rot and get worse the longer he stays in my opinion. He is as stubborn and petulant as any coach we have ever had. He has had parts of 5 seasons here. He is not going to change his breakouts or defensive system. I say it is time to give somebody else a chance.

As far as a hard shot from the point goes we have brought in guys with hard shots from the point in the past under Torts. It did not improve our PP dramatically and they were let go. John Moore has a hard shot. 1 game we were told he would be running our power play. Then the next game he was off the power play.

John Moore is 22 and has never shot the puck more than 64 times in a season. He's young and still figuring it out.

You look at the pieces that the Rangers have and it's not really a surprise that they don't have a good power play. The freakin Islanders have Tavares, Streit, and Visnovsky. What do the Rangers have going for them?

nyr1980
05-26-2013, 02:17 PM
Seems like they miss the net an awful lot too. Del Zotto especially. He has a nice shot, but he's wide with it way too often.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-26-2013, 02:31 PM
A different shot at the point is not going to change the very predictable and ineffective breakout system, the 6 goalie defensive strategy, the power play scheme, or how Torts personality effects the players over time. We have had hard shots (McCabe, Kotalik) on the PP back there before. Our seasons do not come down to a guy shooting 99 mph on the PP vs a guy shooting 97 mph. I have been a diehard fan for almost 40 years. I have had hope even in years we did not make the playoffs. If we just rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic but keep the same captain steering the ship 2013-2014 will be the first season ever that I will have no hope.

bsi
05-26-2013, 02:34 PM
At about the 3:16 mark in the video they talk about the Rangers situation, I agree with them. Having said that I think I've said my piece, everyone is welcome to disagree but I guess we can all have opinions it really doesn't mean a hill of beans as to what the GM or Owners will do this summer. Cheers

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynightincanada/hotstove/video/#id=2387618530

fingerbang
05-26-2013, 02:48 PM
A different shot at the point is not going to change the very predictable and ineffective breakout system, the 6 goalie defensive strategy, the power play scheme, or how Torts personality effects the players over time. We have had hard shots (McCabe, Kotalik) on the PP back there before. Our seasons do not come down to a guy shooting 99 mph on the PP vs a guy shooting 97 mph. I have been a diehard fan for almost 40 years. I have had hope even in years we did not make the playoffs. If we just rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic but keep the same captain steering the ship 2013-2014 will be the first season ever that I will have no hope.

Kotalik and McCabe's careers were basically over when they joined the Rangers. There's a bunch of teams in this league that have players that play exceptionally well from the point and the Rangers aren't one of them. You can't win the derby if you don't have the best horses. You're not going to have a great power play if don't have players that play well on the power play.

If someone approached you and told you that you could choose any team in the NHL to coach but you'd only be evaluated based on how good your power play was, where would the Rangers rank? I don't know about you guys but the Rangers would probably be the last team that I would choose.

Sather hasn't assembled a skilled team full of playmakers. It's a grind it out team.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-26-2013, 03:03 PM
Kotalik and McCabe's careers were basically over when they joined the Rangers. There's a bunch of teams in this league that have players that play exceptionally well from the point and the Rangers aren't one of them. You can't win the derby if you don't have the best horses. You're not going to have a great power play if don't have players that play well on the power play.

If someone approached you and told you that you could choose any team in the NHL to coach but you'd only be evaluated based on how good your power play was, where would the Rangers rank? I don't know about you guys but the Rangers would probably be the last team that I would choose.

Sather hasn't assembled a skilled team full of playmakers. It's a grind it out team.

Their careers may have been near the end but they could still shoot rockets from the point. There is no denying that. It still did not make our PP great. Our season does not only come down to shooting a shot hard from the point. There have been some great PP point men through history that did not shoot a hard slapshot.

The Rangers are the last team you would choose? The Rangers have a lot more offensive talent than many teams over the years. Based only on talent available for the PP I would have chosen the Rangers around 5th before the season. Gabs, Richards, Nash alone had a ton of PP points in their careers. I would have chosen Torts around 30th as a PP coach. He does not even draw up his own plays so how can we even judge how to evaluate him as a PP coach?

This is a team that was favored to win the cup by several ex players and coaches before the season. The players Slats gets for the team are players they decide as a group would help the team. That group includes the coach.

Cups do not come only down to the most talented team wins every season. Talent is a factor but not the only factor. Other factors include coaching, teamwork, luck, effort, and the effectiveness of the teams systems among the other factors. We have had a good deal of talent. Maybe not the most but we are far from the least talented team in the NHL. If it is only about talent and the record is only about the talent level then why keep Torts? If he is not a factor in the winning or losing why not try another guy?

NYRangers4Life
05-26-2013, 03:11 PM
It was a disappointing end to the season for sure. As a lifelong fan it always sucks to have the season end like this, but we are Rangers fans so we have grown accustomed to it.

I like Torts a bunch, but his system has run its course and we are in desperate need of a new approach. This defensive first minded scheme won't work with the players we have and it showed this year. He is force-feeding it to his players and when they don't buy into it (Gaborik) you get shipped off. Gabby was NEVER that type of player, nor is Nash. We have skilled players with offensive talent but we are neutering them under Torts style of hockey. How he treated Kreider, Miller and even Hagelin with his PP comments was just horrible. You don't call your players out in public.

We have an inactive defense and it showed. We employ a sit back on the blue line mentality and when one of our D get the puck they are indecisive. Look at last night with Mac and the ENG by Campbell....Mac should have shot the puck immediately. We have an extra attacker, Campbell was pressing, there is a possibility that the puck ends up on a Rangers stick and behind Rask. No, instead Mac holds on to it and we get scored on. Frustrating!

Hamrlik?!? WTF!! We should have had Stu or Gilroy in instead. They couldn't have done any worse.

Torts is too proud and possesses too much of an ego to let this team play up to their capabilities.

fingerbang
05-26-2013, 03:45 PM
Their careers may have been near the end but they could still shoot rockets from the point. There is no denying that. It still did not make our PP great. Our season does not only come down to shooting a shot hard from the point. There have been some great PP point men through history that did not shoot a hard slapshot.

The Rangers are the last team you would choose? The Rangers have a lot more offensive talent than many teams over the years. Based only on talent available for the PP I would have chosen the Rangers around 5th before the season. Gabs, Richards, Nash alone had a ton of PP points in their careers. I would have chosen Torts around 30th as a PP coach. He does not even draw up his own plays so how can we even judge how to evaluate him as a PP coach?

This is a team that was favored to win the cup by several ex players and coaches before the season. The players Slats gets for the team are players they decide as a group would help the team. That group includes the coach.

Cups do not come only down to the most talented team wins every season. Talent is a factor but not the only factor. Other factors include coaching, teamwork, luck, effort, and the effectiveness of the teams systems among the other factors. We have had a good deal of talent. Maybe not the most but we are far from the least talented team in the NHL. If it is only about talent and the record is only about the talent level then why keep Torts? If he is not a factor in the winning or losing why not try another guy?

Yea but Gaborik and Richards didn't play well. Every decision that the players make isn't pre-determined by the coaching staff. Richards is free to make good plays on the power play if he wants to.

I'm talking about talent specifically relating to the power play. It's not there.

bsi
05-26-2013, 05:43 PM
Brad Richards has been blamed for everything that's wrong with this team and it's far from his fault. He's never been a fast hockey player. He's relied on his smarts, puck moving ability and his powerplay abilities. The guy has been the premier PP guy in the league until he reunited with Tortorella again. That's a fact. So what's changed? Has Brad Richards just all of a sudden forgotten what to do? Or is it that the setup that is used in NY is not condusive to using Richards, Nash, Gaborik,Stepan, Callahan, Brassard etc all to the best of their abilities? Why do all these guys struggle on the PP? I could see if it was one of them but they all struggle. The PP setup is flawed bottom line. Most teams in the NHL would love to have those players to pick from on the PP. Add to that Tortorella claims Hagelin "stinks on the powerplay" but to be honest, everyone stinks on his powerplay so maybe it's not Hagelin either.

nyr2002nyr
05-26-2013, 06:39 PM
Torts also has a year left on his deal. They're not going to eat the money. He gets a pass for having a great season last year and having this year somewhat fouled up because of a lockout.

I get the talk regarding Torts. On a level it is justified. It's frustrating to see a team with high expectations back slide. But he's not getting the axe.

It's a moot point. He'll get the last year on his deal.


What does the money for 1 guy a coach matter when it may cost you a season of total payroll. Besides Glen Sather has been throwing money out the window for years with awful contracts. I honestly think BOTH must go not just one. As a GM he has been allowed to long of a leash and most would have felt the ax by now for the $$ mistakes he has made. Eveyone always says "well he won before with his system" he never win playing this way he won by riding on the back of 3-4 really gifted offensive players. Not sure if you guys remember any of those games but it was not a grinding effort like he has done with the Rangers. Hate to say it but he is good at turning things around quickly but it doesn't last long like Mike Keenan players end up not liking him and he loses a locker room quickly. A coach should always coach to his players best attributes not force them to play like grinders. Who the hell wins with 4 lines of grinders

Mr.Wiskers
05-26-2013, 07:10 PM
It's time for Torts to go, his system s*cks, he doesn't allow his players to create--the moment someone makes a mistake he benches them, and on top of that he burrades his own players in public.

shtimp7
05-26-2013, 08:58 PM
Kotalik and McCabe's careers were basically over when they joined the Rangers. There's a bunch of teams in this league that have players that play exceptionally well from the point and the Rangers aren't one of them. You can't win the derby if you don't have the best horses. You're not going to have a great power play if don't have players that play well on the power play.

If someone approached you and told you that you could choose any team in the NHL to coach but you'd only be evaluated based on how good your power play was, where would the Rangers rank? I don't know about you guys but the Rangers would probably be the last team that I would choose.

Sather hasn't assembled a skilled team full of playmakers. It's a grind it out team.

torts is well suited for a low budget small market team. he'll take your scrappy 3-4th line players and assemble a team full of grit that can grind all season and chip in some weird goals. when its playoff time every team grinds and the ones with superstars are the ones that advance (except ovechkin lol).
we started this season with a top 5 team talent-wise (nash, gabs, richards, HENRIK, girardi, staal).

its so obvious that our stars can never make anything happen when torts forces the dump and chase style. in my eyes, the only guy who's stepped outside the system a bit has been brassard. kid takes his time, holds onto the puck and uses his brain and skill.
the other guys have bought so much into torts' system that they play mindlessly. there's no room to use their natural skills.

metalbest
05-26-2013, 10:04 PM
After a disappointing regular season that was way to lack luster at times, and a disappointing playoff run, I can say that I can see way to big of a problem for our team. Everyone that watches our games should come back with the same conclusions.

First, without Hank, our team is probably a 9th to 12th place team. If you watch the series against Boston again and you don't say how the heck does Boston get so many great (and I mean cringe worthy) scoring chances? I don't know what series you watched. Yet somehow, the king can amazingly stop most of them. There were occasional soft goals scored, but those will go in. All the hall of fame greats have let softies in, I hope you are all thankful for the fact he is our tender (while praying that he re-ups with the rangers this offseason so we don't go into next offseason worried he may leave).

Which brings me to point number two. Our defense has become worse. We are sitting even deeper and waiting for trouble. When this system works, it works because your D jumps on the puck as soon as its loose. Your D doesn't allow multiple scoring chances and require multiple highlight reel saves in order to keep the game close. Most importantly your D can clear the zone and be strong on the puck. Sadly, we have taken a step back this year in that department.

Which brings me to point number three. The offense does exactly the opposite of what we allow talented teams do to us. Which is we battle on the boards and hope for a good bounce to get the chip in goal. We grind, we don't shoot, and we don't play with skill. We make soft passes and we easily allow the other teams D to leave the zone most of the time. How many times did we have that cringe worthy scoring chance against Boston? Maybe 3 times that I can remember. Boston had more than that with one trip into our zone sometimes.

Which brings me to my conclusion. I believe Torts must either change his style to fit our team, or he must be replaced. To look at the talent he has, and to see what that talent produced, it just doesn't make sense. The system did not work at all for us against Boston. It would not have worked against an even more talented team in Pittsburgh. It would definitely have failed against a team like LA, who has a goaltender equally capable of stealing the game as Hank, plus a much more skill accommodating offensive scheme. If we faced a good goaltender like Quick, I would venture to say we would have the chance of being shut out every game we played in a playoff series. Maybe we sneak a few by, but we could barely get one past Rask, who is not an elite tender.

I think Torts was very good for our team the last couple years, but I believe he has been used to his potential. Although I felt the same way about Tom Coughlin before the took the Giants to two super bowl championships. The major difference between him and Torts (so far), Coughlin changed up his style for his players. He became more player friendly while remaining a hardliner on issues that are important to a team. Torts has shown (to this point) that he is unwilling to change for the good of his team. He will not, or at least to this point has not been willing to change his style to fit our players.

I am very excited about the future of this team. As long as our young players are given their chances to shine and our team is given the offensive scheme it deserves. If Torts is the coach for years to come, I hope he is willing to pull a Coughlin. If he isn't, I am very afraid that my excitement may turn to the complete disappointment that I currently feel after this horrible showing against Boston.

Anyone who thinks Torts is doing great, that's fine, its your opinion and you are welcome to it. I ask you to honestly stack our team up against Boston, did this series go the way you would have expected? I was honestly excited for this series. It was two grinding teams that had skill players that play the same style. We had the edge with Hank over Rask. To me that was the difference, we win most the time. Yet what happened? This grind it out team in Boston grinded it out with a huge advantage in the skill department and picked us apart every game of the series. Without Hank, we were outscored by 5 goals a game. Once I came to that conclusion I realized that its not the skaters we have on the ice that were that much worse then Boston. Its the system that failed. Its the coach that failed.

Here's to a good offseason and a strong next season. Hopefully ending in a more uplifting manner if you know what I mean. Let's Go Rangers!

NYSPORTS98
05-26-2013, 10:57 PM
Anyone who thinks Torts is doing great, that's fine, its your opinion and you are welcome to it. I ask you to honestly stack our team up against Boston, did this series go the way you would have expected?

I thought the young Boston defensemen would make more mistakes. Otherwise, the Boston forwards did exactly what I thought they would do and have done for a few years now.

For those who want to see this team open up the offense, keep in mind what this Bruins team did to the high flying Canucks in the finals 2 short years ago. They mauled them on the boards too.

nyr1980
05-26-2013, 11:28 PM
People overlook the fact that Torts turned guys like St.Louis, Richards, and Dan Boyle into NHLers.

He's also a guy who has been a very successful coach on the offensive side of things.

Coached the Sabres PP in early 90's when it was lethal. Same with Tampa during their run.

He does need to let go of his style with this team and move back to his offensive ways. But good coaches adapt. He's not had success by accident. He needs to reassess his approach.

nyr2002nyr
05-27-2013, 10:28 AM
People overlook the fact that Torts turned guys like St.Louis, Richards, and Dan Boyle into NHLers.

He's also a guy who has been a very successful coach on the offensive side of things.

Coached the Sabres PP in early 90's when it was lethal. Same with Tampa during their run.

He does need to let go of his style with this team and move back to his offensive ways. But good coaches adapt. He's not had success by accident. He needs to reassess his approach.

He turned those guys into nhlers? That is laughable.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-27-2013, 11:56 AM
I respectfully disagree that he made those players. Did he teach St Louis to be one of the quickest skaters in the NHL with great vision? If so why doesn't he teach all the Rangers players the same thing. I think that is being a bit unfair to guys that spent decades working towards a goal.

Here is the rub. If you give credit for the good players than you have to give blame for the bad players. Same thing for wins and loses. If you give credit for the wins than you have to give blame for the losses.


71% of Ranger fans say Torts must go.

fingerbang
05-27-2013, 12:33 PM
Brad Richards has been blamed for everything that's wrong with this team and it's far from his fault. He's never been a fast hockey player. He's relied on his smarts, puck moving ability and his powerplay abilities. The guy has been the premier PP guy in the league until he reunited with Tortorella again. That's a fact. So what's changed? Has Brad Richards just all of a sudden forgotten what to do? Or is it that the setup that is used in NY is not condusive to using Richards, Nash, Gaborik,Stepan, Callahan, Brassard etc all to the best of their abilities? Why do all these guys struggle on the PP? I could see if it was one of them but they all struggle. The PP setup is flawed bottom line. Most teams in the NHL would love to have those players to pick from on the PP. Add to that Tortorella claims Hagelin "stinks on the powerplay" but to be honest, everyone stinks on his powerplay so maybe it's not Hagelin either.

Brad Richards developed his awesome drop pass it out of the zone play. Hes failed to step up and lead the power play big time. I don't agree with his benching but he's still been **** on the power play.

People say certain guys don't play well in Torts system, it's a giant load of ********. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that Gaborik can't play in this system. Meanwhile Gaborik had two of his best three seasons of his career playing under Torts. Didn't see Stepan complaining. Brassard played the best 25 game stretch of his career here. Nash had a great year too. Torts doesn't tell you not to score but he will hold his players accountable which is generally considered to be a good thing. Torts knows this isn't a high powered offense so he has to do whatever he can to limit mistake. The Rangers are built to win 2-1 or 3-2.

The last time the Rangers had a good power play was when they had a group of great finesse passers - Jagr, Straka, Nylander. This current team doesn't have that or a good shot from the point. They really don't have the makings of a good power play.

nyr1980
05-27-2013, 12:42 PM
Of course I don't believe he "made St. Louis fast and gave him great instinct and vision." I'm not trying to take anything away from the work those guys did.

But all those guys I've mentioned have said that themselves to some degree in that they credit Torts with showing them how to be pros. - And don't ask for links or articles- it's out there and I've seen it and so have some of you. I believe St. Louis said it in his acceptance speech when he won the Hart Trophy.

Sly- reason I say you can't blame him specifically for Richards' season- and only this season- is due to the fact that I believe Richards was not in the kind of game shape and level of sharpness we've become accustomed to from him over his career due to him not playing during the lock out. I believe that hurt him. Tremendously.

And I didn't say Torts should not necessarily go. Merely that with all things considered, i.e. 1st in Conference and trip to conference finals last season, no camp/shortened schedule this season, plus his own credentials as a 3 time Adams finalist and 1-time winner, Stanley Cup winner, and a guy who has won a championship at all levels he's coached, plus having a year left on his deal, he will more than likely have the opportunity to coach into next season.

If he went, I would not be upset by it, but I believe a guys with his resume has a right to be considered a great coach, and with that being said, I definitely agree that changes need to come from him and he needs to tailor his style and approach to fit this team.

Team in 11-12 was a fit for his style. Team in '13 was not, he tried to go that way again as he had no camp or practice time with new faces to really effectively alter it, and it did not work. You guys don't think he sees that? Say what you want, but he's not stupid and he knows what he is working with and I believe he sees the need for adjustment. But what did you want him to do, completely implement a new system with new bodies and no time to do it? Please. That is disastrous coaching. I believe he can adjust and sees the need to.

I do blame him for not getting better results. But I think the lockout was a huge factor. So much change and no time to work with it is a factor that can't be understated, IMO.

fingerbang
05-27-2013, 12:57 PM
71% of Ranger fans say Torts must go.

71% of Rangers fans demand a Stanley Cup from a team that isn't even the best in their own conference. Torts is the best coaching hire Sather has ever made. Renney was dumb luck and anything before that was a giant disaster. Blame cigar guy.

nyr1980
05-27-2013, 12:59 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if Torts goes, who is his replacement?

I know Lindy Ruff is the popular name out there, not sure how I feel about that.

fingerbang
05-27-2013, 01:07 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if Torts goes, who is his replacement?

I know Lindy Ruff is the popular name out there, not sure how I feel about that.

Lindy Ruff would fit right in. He's made a career out of coaching teams that were almost good enough to win it all.

nyr1980
05-27-2013, 01:18 PM
Lindy Ruff would fit right in. He's made a career out of coaching teams that were almost good enough to win it all.

My feeling on Lindy as well. Good coach, but always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

SLY WILLIAMS
05-27-2013, 02:29 PM
We do not need to go with a NHL coach that has been recently fired. I'd like to speak to Detroit and Scotty Bowman. See if they know of any good assistant that they feel are ready especially if a guy has experience with a good offensive break out system or PP scheme.

nyr1980
05-27-2013, 02:59 PM
Agree with you on that Sly. If they do move on a new coach, wouldn't shock me to see them get a guy who is not an established NHL coach. Who is the guy from the Toronto Marlies. He's pretty high on people's lists.

Mr.Wiskers
05-27-2013, 03:04 PM
its so obvious that our stars can never make anything happen when torts forces the dump and chase style. in my eyes, the only guy who's stepped outside the system a bit has been brassard. kid takes his time, holds onto the puck and uses his brain and skill.
the other guys have bought so much into torts' system that they play mindlessly. there's no room to use their natural skills.
My thoughts exactly Shtimp. Give Torts a couple of more weeks, he'll kill brassards game too/ or at least his confidence.

Mr.Wiskers
05-27-2013, 03:07 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Sather steps down due to health reasons and Messier becomes the President and GM, brings in his own people.

nyr1980
05-27-2013, 03:22 PM
its so obvious that our stars can never make anything happen when torts forces the dump and chase style. in my eyes, the only guy who's stepped outside the system a bit has been brassard. kid takes his time, holds onto the puck and uses his brain and skill.
the other guys have bought so much into torts' system that they play mindlessly. there's no room to use their natural skills.
My thoughts exactly Shtimp. Give Torts a couple of more weeks, he'll kill brassards game too/ or at least his confidence.

There is validity to that for sure. The lineup this year was very different than the lineup in 11-12 as far as the forwards were concerned. My point though is that, had Torts had a camp and preseason and an 82-game schedule, he could have altered the system to his players some more and not been essentially forced to stick with that which he used in 11-12. But he didn't really have that as a viable option given the lockout and turnover on the roster. I think he'd have opened it up some for the forwards, played a guy like Kreider more, and not have had to rely so heavily on his strengths, namely Hank and the defensemen.

This system is not an exact duplicate of the system he played in Tampa when he won the cup. He allowed those guys more freedom cause he could- He was able to make those adjustments and had the talent to do it. There is talent enough with this team to open it up amongst the forwards, but there has to be time to put that in place. Time he did not have this season. Plus, lack of any real success and fighting for a spot all through the season forced him to play, in his eyes at least, his "top" guys a ton and shorten his bench, tinker with lines, and stick with what most of his guys knew, namely the style of play from 11-12.

I am tired of the bench shortening and line juggling. He does that way too much, I'll give you that. Like to see him just relax, roll 4 lines more often, let these guys play their roles and keep guys together, rather than spending so much time moving guys to try and find a spark. Don't forget that Torts is an offensive coach in trade and was an offensive player as a minor leaguer. He built the system that they played to fit the strengths which were: Hank in goal, a good group of defensemen, and forwards who are responsible and block shots.

Now, that make up has changed. There is more skill than there was in 11-12.

Also, I can't wholly blame him for wanting to play with this new group through this season with a system that worked so well in 11-12.

bsi
05-27-2013, 04:10 PM
There is validity to that for sure. The lineup this year was very different than the lineup in 11-12 as far as the forwards were concerned. My point though is that, had Torts had a camp and preseason and an 82-game schedule, he could have altered the system to his players some more and not been essentially forced to stick with that which he used in 11-12. But he didn't really have that as a viable option given the lockout and turnover on the roster. I think he'd have opened it up some for the forwards, played a guy like Kreider more, and not have had to rely so heavily on his strengths, namely Hank and the defensemen.

This system is not an exact duplicate of the system he played in Tampa when he won the cup. He allowed those guys more freedom cause he could- He was able to make those adjustments and had the talent to do it. There is talent enough with this team to open it up amongst the forwards, but there has to be time to put that in place. Time he did not have this season. Plus, lack of any real success and fighting for a spot all through the season forced him to play, in his eyes at least, his "top" guys a ton and shorten his bench, tinker with lines, and stick with what most of his guys knew, namely the style of play from 11-12.

I am tired of the bench shortening and line juggling. He does that way too much, I'll give you that. Like to see him just relax, roll 4 lines more often, let these guys play their roles and keep guys together, rather than spending so much time moving guys to try and find a spark. Don't forget that Torts is an offensive coach in trade and was an offensive player as a minor leaguer. He built the system that they played to fit the strengths which were: Hank in goal, a good group of defensemen, and forwards who are responsible and block shots.

Now, that make up has changed. There is more skill than there was in 11-12.

Also, I can't wholly blame him for wanting to play with this new group through this season with a system that worked so well in 11-12.

There's no valid reason that he can't change his system on the fly, these aren't house league players, most coaches adjust mid playoff series if things aren't going their way. Torts did did it for one period, activating the D and hanging on to the puck instead of dumping it going back to his "safe is death" Tampa days, and it was our best period of the series and the next game we're all back in front of the net, that's where he lost me. He could have stuck with that the next game but chose to go back to his old system.

NYSPORTS98
05-27-2013, 04:17 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Sather steps down due to health reasons and Messier becomes the President and GM, brings in his own people.

Steps down from playing golf everyday? The guy has it pretty easy and prostate surgery isn't a necessarily a death sentence. It's a cake job.

bsi
05-27-2013, 04:27 PM
Brad Richards developed his awesome drop pass it out of the zone play. Hes failed to step up and lead the power play big time. I don't agree with his benching but he's still been **** on the power play.

People say certain guys don't play well in Torts system, it's a giant load of ********. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that Gaborik can't play in this system. Meanwhile Gaborik had two of his best three seasons of his career playing under Torts. Didn't see Stepan complaining. Brassard played the best 25 game stretch of his career here. Nash had a great year too. Torts doesn't tell you not to score but he will hold his players accountable which is generally considered to be a good thing. Torts knows this isn't a high powered offense so he has to do whatever he can to limit mistake. The Rangers are built to win 2-1 or 3-2.

The last time the Rangers had a good power play was when they had a group of great finesse passers - Jagr, Straka, Nylander. This current team doesn't have that or a good shot from the point. They really don't have the makings of a good power play.

This is a high powered offsense if it was run by someone else. You said yourself that Gaborik had 40 goals here, Callahan is a potential 30 goal guy, Nash is at the very least a 35 goal scorer. Richards had 91 points 2 years before getting here on a non playoff team and 77 points in 72 the year before he came and was pretty near a point a game guy until he got here, all the while being one of the highest point producing players in the league on the PP. There's lots of power in the offense, there's little pop to their leader's system. There's no other coach in the league other than him that would expect these guys to block shots and come down in their end so low they can't break out. There's not one coach in the league that would do something so inane as to expect Rick Nash to chip the puck out and watch it land in the hands of the opposing team, there's not one other coach that would do that to a Rick Nash. Can you imagine Renney asking Jagr to do any of these things? He just never had to, that whole PP we had then had free reign to be creative and make mistakes, this one is chastised and berated when it makes one. This team has plenty of offense, Nash, Richards,Stepan, Brassard, Callahan,Zuccarello, Kreider etc etc are all offensive minded players being forced to play defensive hockey. The only guys that should be playing this way are Hagelin, Boyle, Dorsett, Asham, Powe and Pyatt. The rest should be freed from their coaches leash. Saying this team doesn't have offensive players is a scapegoat of a statement, it puts the blame on the players rather than the one telling them how to play. This coach can't adjust to his personel so he's no good to us.

nyr1980
05-27-2013, 04:31 PM
Maybe, but what do you think his reasoning was for not doing that? I agree that with this make up, he needs to run more like he did in Tampa. I think he can and he wants to. I'm guessing he felt that if he went away from what they've played last 3-4 seasons, they'd have struggled more than they had- Devil you know is better then the Devil you don't. Now, you can beat him up for not moving away from that style sooner and it is fair. But I think the reason why he didn't is obvious. He didn't feel it would work consistently or he didn't feel he could successfully integrate it with the newer guys and guys struggling enough to where it would be effective.

I agree he should have pushed different buttons then he did. I agree that this season they underachieved. I agree that it is the coaches responsibility to get the most out of his players and he did not do that this year. But I believe he can, with some adjustments, do it again.

Maybe it's all just wishful thinking on my behalf though and he's run his course here. Who knows for sure anyway?

Again though, I think the discussion is moot. Despite what most Ranger fans might want, it seems likely he'll be back for the last year of his deal.

fingerbang
05-27-2013, 04:45 PM
This is a high powered offsense if it was run by someone else. You said yourself that Gaborik had 40 goals here, Callahan is a potential 30 goal guy, Nash is at the very least a 35 goal scorer. Richards had 91 points 2 years before getting here on a non playoff team and 77 points in 72 the year before he came and was pretty near a point a game guy until he got here, all the while being one of the highest point producing players in the league on the PP. There's lots of power in the offense, there's little pop to their leader's system. There's no other coach in the league other than him that would expect these guys to block shots and come down in their end so low they can't break out. There's not one coach in the league that would do something so inane as to expect Rick Nash to chip the puck out and watch it land in the hands of the opposing team, there's not one other coach that would do that to a Rick Nash. Can you imagine Renney asking Jagr to do any of these things? He just never had to, that whole PP we had then had free reign to be creative and make mistakes, this one is chastised and berated when it makes one. This team has plenty of offense, Nash, Richards,Stepan, Brassard, Callahan,Zuccarello, Kreider etc etc are all offensive minded players being forced to play defensive hockey. The only guys that should be playing this way are Hagelin, Boyle, Dorsett, Asham, Powe and Pyatt. The rest should be freed from their coaches leash. Saying this team doesn't have offensive players is a scapegoat of a statement, it puts the blame on the players rather than the one telling them how to play. This coach can't adjust to his personel so he's no good to us.

The "system" didn't hold Gaborik back when he was pumping in 40+ goals. Why was it a problem this year?

Stepan, Brassard, and Nash played fine in Torts "system" this year. Gaborik and Richards stunk. You're team isn't that good offensively if two of your top three offensive players have bad seasons.

He can't adjust to personnel? Stepan had a career year. Nash had the puck on his stick on breakouts constantly. Brassard had the best 25 game stretch of his career.

nyr2002nyr
05-27-2013, 07:24 PM
71% of Rangers fans demand a Stanley Cup from a team that isn't even the best in their own conference. Torts is the best coaching hire Sather has ever made. Renney was dumb luck and anything before that was a giant disaster. Blame cigar guy.

Muckler!!! Ok I was kidding

Trottier!!! Yup still kidding

nyr2002nyr
05-27-2013, 07:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Sather steps down due to health reasons and Messier becomes the President and GM, brings in his own people.

I'm crossing my fingers this happens

nyr2002nyr
05-27-2013, 07:28 PM
There is validity to that for sure. The lineup this year was very different than the lineup in 11-12 as far as the forwards were concerned. My point though is that, had Torts had a camp and preseason and an 82-game schedule, he could have altered the system to his players some more and not been essentially forced to stick with that which he used in 11-12. But he didn't really have that as a viable option given the lockout and turnover on the roster. I think he'd have opened it up some for the forwards, played a guy like Kreider more, and not have had to rely so heavily on his strengths, namely Hank and the defensemen.

This system is not an exact duplicate of the system he played in Tampa when he won the cup. He allowed those guys more freedom cause he could- He was able to make those adjustments and had the talent to do it. There is talent enough with this team to open it up amongst the forwards, but there has to be time to put that in place. Time he did not have this season. Plus, lack of any real success and fighting for a spot all through the season forced him to play, in his eyes at least, his "top" guys a ton and shorten his bench, tinker with lines, and stick with what most of his guys knew, namely the style of play from 11-12.

I am tired of the bench shortening and line juggling. He does that way too much, I'll give you that. Like to see him just relax, roll 4 lines more often, let these guys play their roles and keep guys together, rather than spending so much time moving guys to try and find a spark. Don't forget that Torts is an offensive coach in trade and was an offensive player as a minor leaguer. He built the system that they played to fit the strengths which were: Hank in goal, a good group of defensemen, and forwards who are responsible and block shots.

Now, that make up has changed. There is more skill than there was in 11-12.

Also, I can't wholly blame him for wanting to play with this new group through this season with a system that worked so well in 11-12.

That is the problem I don't think he would have altered it at all. He forces players who aren't a certain style to play his way and only his way. Honestly I think the game has passed him by some

NYR_NYJ
05-27-2013, 09:16 PM
He didn't change anything to adjust to what Boston was doing.

They did exactly what the Devils did last year Cycle the hell out of the puck and pump shots from the point, because all 5 guys are below the dots trying to block shots.
I don't Want Nash and Richards or those types blocking shots it's a waste of their talent and energy.

runnermjr1296
05-28-2013, 08:32 AM
A Lot of these discussions remind me of Tom Coughlin before he won his two super bowl's with the GIANTS.

NYSPORTS98
05-28-2013, 10:11 AM
A Lot of these discussions remind me of Tom Coughlin before he won his two super bowl's with the GIANTS.

+1 - great analogy :)

nyr2002nyr
05-28-2013, 10:16 AM
A Lot of these discussions remind me of Tom Coughlin before he won his two super bowl's with the GIANTS.

Except that year they almost missed the "playoffs" and then won it all THAT year

NYSPORTS98
05-28-2013, 09:09 PM
2 game 7 wins away from the final four including the last four stanley cup winners (Pitt, Boston, Chicago, LA)

bsi
05-29-2013, 10:39 AM
2 game 7 wins away from the final four including the last four stanley cup winners (Pitt, Boston, Chicago, LA)

Without Lundqvist we'd have been out 4 straight the first series. The guy literally drug us to game 7 vs Boston and we barely beat Ottawa last year and that was on the back of Lundqvist as well.

bsi
05-29-2013, 10:51 AM
The "system" didn't hold Gaborik back when he was pumping in 40+ goals. Why was it a problem this year?

Stepan, Brassard, and Nash played fine in Torts "system" this year. Gaborik and Richards stunk. You're team isn't that good offensively if two of your top three offensive players have bad seasons.

He can't adjust to personnel? Stepan had a career year. Nash had the puck on his stick on breakouts constantly. Brassard had the best 25 game stretch of his career.


Stepan is in his 3rd season, he's supposed to progress, this was supposed to be his best season to date. Brassard is new here, the same thing will happen to him if Tortorella isn't let go as happened to Gaborik, Richards and finally Nash in the playoffs, he'll be on him so much that he'll be nervous to make a mistake. It's what happens to everyone eventually. Tortorella has a shelf life with players and it's well past due. His scapegoats include DelZotto two years ago, Dubinsky last year, Gaborik and Richards this year....who's next year, my guess Stepan or Nash since they were our two top scoring players this year. Maybe it'll be Brassard? One thing is for sure, he'll have someone to kick around and blame his exit from the playoffs if he's still here because it's easy to point the finger when your job is on the line. He's already admitted to the fact he didn't coach his top players well, I don't even know why you are defending him because the man said it himself and I quote...

“It’s a big part of my job to get your top players to play consistently, and I couldn’t do that. We tried, and so I need to take some responsibility and try to get them in those spots to help us here. I thought that hurt us a little bit.”

Even he knows where the problem lies.

nyr2002nyr
05-29-2013, 12:42 PM
Sounds like Hank is having second thoughts about staying on! this could make the decision on Torts easier as it sounds like it has a lot to do with him

NYflightboy
05-29-2013, 01:07 PM
Good news guys. He's been fired!!! About time!

SLY WILLIAMS
05-29-2013, 02:18 PM
Good news guys. He's been fired!!! About time!

With that news I think we will close this thread and continue the discussion in the fired thread.