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sammyvine
05-21-2013, 10:35 AM
Did anybody watch it just now...

Thought it was a pretty decent debate. For once Bayless wasnt trolling too much and was paying Lebron compliments.
Broussard is a huge Lebron home but he made interesting points about Mourning and Pippen having resentment towards Jordan

Riodagoat
05-21-2013, 10:50 AM
I missed it. Maybe someone nice enough might upload it on YouTube soon.

Jarvo
05-21-2013, 10:52 AM
Lebron can beat Jordan one on one.

4milesperday
05-21-2013, 10:58 AM
I bet you Jordan can't push Bron around like he does defenders during his time...The closest thing to a great defender during Jordan era was Gary Payton. As much as people claim the NBA was more physical back then, it was only one team that was actually physical, the Pistons.

sammyvine
05-21-2013, 10:59 AM
I bet you Jordan can't push Bron around like he does defenders during his time...The closest thing to a great defender during Jordan era was Gary Payton. As much as people claim the NBA was more physical back then, it was only one team that was actually physical, the Pistons.

like Broussard said, lebron is physical and bigger but jordan has the will to win.

koreancabbage
05-21-2013, 11:14 AM
like Broussard said, lebron is physical and bigger but jordan has the will to win.

but to pipe in, the will to win is really overrated as it is really based on teammates, circumstances, and tons of luck. Not saying Jordan's feat and accomplishments were nothing but a lot of things had to go right for him to win as well.

Rain City
05-21-2013, 11:24 AM
I bet you Jordan can't push Bron around like he does defenders during his time...The closest thing to a great defender during Jordan era was Gary Payton. As much as people claim the NBA was more physical back then, it was only one team that was actually physical, the Pistons.

NY Knicks

ManRam
05-21-2013, 11:24 AM
like broussard said, lebron is physical and bigger but jordan has the will to win.

twtw!

Lo Porto
05-21-2013, 11:34 AM
For years, you've been told how great MJ is and never shown his flaws. Just for take the time to watch these please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

sammyvine
05-21-2013, 11:37 AM
For years, you've been told how great MJ is and never shown his flaws. Just for take the time to watch these please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

Of course he had flaws...who said he didn't? no individual doesn't have flaws in their profession lol.

pacofunk64
05-21-2013, 11:56 AM
LBJ would take MJ 1 on 1 but so what.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-21-2013, 11:58 AM
Lebron can beat Jordan one on one.

This is sarcasm right?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-21-2013, 12:00 PM
LBJ would take MJ 1 on 1 but so what.

:facepalm:

PleaseBeNice
05-21-2013, 12:12 PM
LBJ would win one on one vs ANYONE (disregarding extreme height differences) . Easy for me to say.

PhillyFaninLA
05-21-2013, 12:14 PM
NY Knicks

Oakley and Ewing....man they where something

SwatTeam
05-21-2013, 12:16 PM
What's first take?

Pierzynski4Prez
05-21-2013, 12:19 PM
Oakley and Ewing....man they where something

It was more than just those 2. Mason, Starks, Xavier, Charles Smith just to name a few more.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-21-2013, 12:19 PM
What's first take?

It comes on before 2nd take.

ghettosean
05-21-2013, 12:29 PM
Lebron can beat Jordan one on one.


And the award for smoking the most crack goes to this guy!

ghettosean
05-21-2013, 12:30 PM
NY Knicks

You beat me to this post!

Pierzynski4Prez
05-21-2013, 12:36 PM
This really is a pointless discussion. We can all assume Lebron will win at least a couple more titles in his career, but until he actually does so, the argument clearly belongs to MJ.

I'm not saying Lebron can't/won't top him, but at the moment this discussion is just:horse: for the next few years. Just give LBJ the time before you start debating who is the GOAT. He has 1 freaking ring, MJ won 6 in 8 years, there is nothing to compare at the moment, 5 years from now If LBJ has 6, then sure he should probably be viewed as the superior player.

Stinkyoutsider
05-21-2013, 12:43 PM
I don't think Jordan was ever defended by a guy with Lebron's size and athleticism? I don't think there was anyone who was 6'8", 260, and could get up and down the court like a point guard so it would be interesting to see who would win the matchup.

As far as I'm concerned, I would still take MJ in a one on one matchup. People forget how crafty Jordan was as a player and how he analyzed everyone's game. Picked them apart in film then put that knowledge to use on the court.

For example, I think it was Jordan who talked about Lebron going left and taking jumpers. Kobe used that same info during the all-star game, which normally wouldn't matter since it's just an exibition game, but he used this strategy near the end of the game where the level of play was high. I was surprised that Lebron was doing exactly what Jordan said in the press about going left and not going all the way to the basket.

SwatTeam
05-21-2013, 12:46 PM
It comes on before 2nd take.

Is this thE show where they talk about different types of cold pizza?

Pierzynski4Prez
05-21-2013, 12:49 PM
Is this thE show where they talk about different types of cold pizza?

They used to. Now its warm pizza.

Dade County
05-21-2013, 01:56 PM
Unless the government releases a youth wonder drug, this matchup will never happen...Soooo

Jarvo
05-21-2013, 02:00 PM
This is sarcasm right?

This is one on one not a playoff game nor an team game.

tredigs
05-21-2013, 02:09 PM
I bet you Jordan can't push Bron around like he does defenders during his time...The closest thing to a great defender during Jordan era was Gary Payton. As much as people claim the NBA was more physical back then, it was only one team that was actually physical, the Pistons.

Having the toughest paint presence in NBA history with all the elite defensive bigs aside, this is a joke. Joe Dumars, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson, and obviously Rodman + Pippen + Jordan himself. There were PLENTY of others as well. Plus, if you have ever played ball you realize how much harder ISO defense can be in the post when somebody is allowed to hand-check you. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think it was more physical on average. They were allowed to get away with much harder fouls that today would be flagrants and/or ejections regularly. Like all sports including football, for better or worse it was a much more aggressive league back then.

All that said, I think defensive schemes are better now. You just need to do yourself a favor and go back and rewatch some tape if you think GP was "the closest thing to a great defender" and aren't 100% trolling.

Jarvo
05-21-2013, 02:10 PM
And the award for smoking the most crack goes to this guy!

I guess lol but I don't know why it seems so crazy that Lebron or even Kobe can beat him one on one, You guys act like if MJ is some kind of God and can't get beat in a game foh.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-21-2013, 02:12 PM
And the award for smoking the most crack goes to this guy!
Lmao. This

This is one on one not a playoff game nor an team game.

Proves my point more dummy. Jordan would rip Lebron to shreds 1v1.

tredigs
05-21-2013, 02:13 PM
I don't think Jordan was ever defended by a guy with Lebron's size and athleticism? I don't think there was anyone who was 6'8", 260, and could get up and down the court like a point guard so it would be interesting to see who would win the matchup.

As far as I'm concerned, I would still take MJ in a one on one matchup. People forget how crafty Jordan was as a player and how he analyzed everyone's game. Picked them apart in film then put that knowledge to use on the court.

For example, I think it was Jordan who talked about Lebron going left and taking jumpers. Kobe used that same info during the all-star game, which normally wouldn't matter since it's just an exibition game, but he used this strategy near the end of the game where the level of play was high. I was surprised that Lebron was doing exactly what Jordan said in the press about going left and not going all the way to the basket.
I'm failing to see why 1v1 is even a discussion regardless of who would win. This is team pro basketball we're talking about, right? Could Lebron guard Shaq?

tredigs
05-21-2013, 02:21 PM
Also, I tried to watch a full "First Take" episode for the first time in my life last week.

It'll be the last. Some of the worst analysis you can find anywhere. There are bleacher reports that put these guys to shame. And annoying as all ****. I was hoping to see they were a part of these mass ESPN layoffs today.

Jarvo
05-21-2013, 02:33 PM
Lmao. This


Proves my point more dummy. Jordan would rip Lebron to shreds 1v1.

You're a dumbass

TopsyTurvy
05-21-2013, 02:36 PM
Also, I tried to watch a full "First Take" episode for the first time in my life last week.

It'll be the last. Some of the worst analysis you can find anywhere. There are bleacher reports that put these guys to shame. And annoying as all ****. I was hoping to see they were a part of these mass ESPN layoffs today.

The whole show is scripted. Everything argued is bullet points on a prompter, and often not even written by the analysts themselves. It's what ESPN has become. :(

Kobe2324
05-21-2013, 02:40 PM
for one the only player that would have a chance of beating jodan would be Kobe and I dont give him much of a chance either, anyone who thinks Lebron would beat Jordan clearly never seen Jordan play or perhaps the only time you did was when he was wearing a wizards jersey and the guy was still really good then

ztilzer31
05-21-2013, 02:46 PM
Illusionist was also the one who said that Jordan was the second most athletically gifted player of all time next to Lebron.... Even though Jordan's own trainer has said multiple times that Jordan wasn't even the most athletically gifted player of his era (Barkley). Honestly if you listen to Illusionist talk about Jordan you can tell he never watched him play.

Shlumpledink
05-21-2013, 02:53 PM
I don't buy Pippen having resentment to Jordan. He has always defended Jordan when talking about his all time great status. He was one of the main ones saying Jordan is better than Kobe Bryant. Pippen loves Jordan. If he thinks Lebron is better than Jordan that is saying something.

3RDASYSTEM
05-21-2013, 02:58 PM
like Broussard said, lebron is physical and bigger but jordan has the will to win.

How can you measure a players will to win over the next?

Iverson had the will plus the physical toughness(he though bball was soft) and mental competitiveness just like JORDAN(see DALY quote)

like didn't JORDAN's initial will get taken by his 1st rd and playoff exits before he finally found the perfect will to win in 91'? where was this 'will' that couldn't win a damn game against C's getting swept out, and him crying after 3 straight ECF loses? its so funny how this guy had the will 7-8yrs later in nba career but didn't prior

they all have a will, especially when you're as individually good as BRON

BRON took a CAVS squad to 07' Finals right? didn't he will his team thru DET? BRON is the bigger better version and AI is the smaller size better version, now im just speaking on purely hardwood and eye test game

3RDASYSTEM
05-21-2013, 03:04 PM
for one the only player that would have a chance of beating jodan would be Kobe and I dont give him much of a chance either, anyone who thinks Lebron would beat Jordan clearly never seen Jordan play or perhaps the only time you did was when he was wearing a wizards jersey and the guy was still really good then

So you have come to the conclusion that the only player who can beat JORDAN is his own poorman clone?

wow, its plenty of players who would beat JORDAN 1 on 1, IVERSON would he just too short at 5'10''

DREXLER,WILKINS,MELO,BRON and others would all give it to JORDAN 1 on 1, make it take it

JORDAN would win but of course he'd lose some also, his will wouldn't mean anything, the best bigger player usually wins 1 on 1

if JORDAN couldn't stop SMITH-MILLER-WILKINS-DREXLER in team game matchup how in the world is he going to stop these guys 1 on 1 make it take it?

TheIlladelph16
05-21-2013, 03:06 PM
I dislike the comparisons this early in Lebron's career because we have a solid 8-10 years left of him playing (barring injury of course). His true legacy is not yet defined and won't be for at least 5 years. Very premature discussion if we are pitting him against the GOAT.

I will say though... is it really THAT ludicrous to some people to say that Lebron has a decent shot at beating Jordan in a 1 v. 1? I think it would be a very sick matchup, and would probably be close to evenly split if they played say 10 games.

3RDASYSTEM
05-21-2013, 03:10 PM
And the award for smoking the most crack goes to this guy!

He's smoking crack because he said BRON can beat JORDAN 1 on 1?

he didn't say MUGSY or ADAM M. then I could see where ya coming from

its plenty of players who could and would beat JORDAN 1 on 1, why does 6 rings out of 15yrs make you a 1 on 1 automatic winner? JORDAN would get his *** owned by DREXLER 1 on 1(unless they let JORDAN hack and foul away), just looked how they matched up in live games 5 on 5

Sandman
05-21-2013, 03:20 PM
For years, you've been told how great MJ is and never shown his flaws. Just for take the time to watch these please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4
"Rule changes rigged the game in 1991"
1990-91
• Penalties for flagrant fouls increased such that an infraction is penalized by two free throw attempts and possession of the ball out-of-bounds. The offender may also be ejected if there is no apparent effort to play the ball and/or, in the official’s judgment, the contact was of such an excessive nature that an injury could have occurred. Ejected players will be automatically fined $250.
• :00.3 must expire on the clock when a ball is inbounded and then hit instantly out-of-bounds
• :00.3 is needed on the clock to catch the ball and shoot it into the basket whether the shot is made or not.
• :00.3 must expire on the clock when a player gets possession of a missed free throw and immediately requests a timeout.
• :00.1 is needed on the clock to tip the ball in the basket whether the shot is made or not.
1991-92
• If a player suffers a laceration or wound where bleeding occurs, game officials will stop play and remove the injured player from the game. The player is then allowed to return after receiving appropriate medical attention.

:confused:

OceanSpray
05-21-2013, 03:35 PM
Stop with this "will" garbage. That's just a simple answer for those who can't honestly find a reason to explain something.

MrfadeawayJB
05-21-2013, 03:36 PM
This show is becoming ****ing trash

Lo Porto
05-21-2013, 03:43 PM
I guess lol but I don't know why it seems so crazy that Lebron or even Kobe can beat him one on one, You guys act like if MJ is some kind of God and can't get beat in a game foh.

Exactly. Jordan was great. He wasn't a god. Another could be better.

blahblahyoutoo
05-21-2013, 03:53 PM
It was more than just those 2. Mason, Starks, Xavier, Charles Smith just to name a few more.

lol @ charles "feel free to stuff the **** outta me 5x in a row in the paint" smith.

OceanSpray
05-21-2013, 03:58 PM
Michael Jordan is overrated. His biggest competition at his position during his reign was Drexler.. Seriously? Who else did this guy even play when they were on their PEAK? Magic/Bird were not in their peak. The best player Jordan played at that time was Barkley/Hakeem.

Jabears85
05-21-2013, 04:36 PM
I guess lol but I don't know why it seems so crazy that Lebron or even Kobe can beat him one on one, You guys act like if MJ is some kind of God and can't get beat in a game foh.

Have you not heard the news!? He is.....the God of Basketball

Jordan = GOAT

Jabears85
05-21-2013, 04:39 PM
Michael Jordan is overrated. His biggest competition at his position during his reign was Drexler.. Seriously? Who else did this guy even play when they were on their PEAK? Magic/Bird were not in their peak. The best player Jordan played at that time was Barkley/Hakeem.

HA thanks for that. Sides hurt so much from laughter i dont have to go to the gym anymore. Here let me count

1

2

3

4

5

SIXXXXXXXXXXX! rings

TheNumber37
05-21-2013, 04:42 PM
Anyone ever see Kobe post up Lebron and regularly get the better of him?
Well, Jordan was stronger and better at it.

OceanSpray
05-21-2013, 04:42 PM
HA thanks for that. Sides hurt so much from laughter i dont have to go to the gym anymore. Here let me count

1

2

3

4

5

SIXXXXXXXXXXX! rings

If that's your response, I think I proved my point in regards to the fanbase of Jordan.

TheIlladelph16
05-21-2013, 04:45 PM
Michael Jordan is overrated. His biggest competition at his position during his reign was Drexler.. Seriously? Who else did this guy even play when they were on their PEAK? Magic/Bird were not in their peak. The best player Jordan played at that time was Barkley/Hakeem.

People tend to look at Jordan with rose colored glasses and put him on some mythical, unattainable pedestal for sure, but I could not disagree more with you. He is very clearly the best player of all-time. I'm not sure how you can overrate someone like that.

OceanSpray
05-21-2013, 04:46 PM
Anyone ever see Kobe post up Lebron and regularly get the better of him?
Well, Jordan was stronger and better at it.

What exactly did you mean by get better?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=bryanko01

LeBron's record against Kobe.

OceanSpray
05-21-2013, 04:48 PM
People tend to look at Jordan with rose colored glasses and put him on some mythical, unattainable pedestal for sure, but I could not disagree more with you. He is very clearly the best player of all-time. I'm not sure how you can overrate someone like that.

That's because you don't know the meaning of overrated. He's not God and that's what people make it out to be. He lost and lost in the playoffs before he won anything. 6/6 in the finals, congrats. Charles Barkley, Hakeem, and maybe Karl Malone were the best competition MJ ever had. Bird and Magic were past their prime when MJ started winning.

natelpete
05-21-2013, 04:50 PM
This really is a pointless discussion. We can all assume Lebron will win at least a couple more titles in his career, but until he actually does so, the argument clearly belongs to MJ.

I'm not saying Lebron can't/won't top him, but at the moment this discussion is just:horse: for the next few years. Just give LBJ the time before you start debating who is the GOAT. He has 1 freaking ring, MJ won 6 in 8 years, there is nothing to compare at the moment, 5 years from now If LBJ has 6, then sure he should probably be viewed as the superior player.

I think the debate here is based on who would win in a game of one on one, not who has had the best career so far.

smiddy012
05-21-2013, 04:54 PM
Obviously not many posters here are 30+ years old. MJ's greatness was something you had to see for yourself, otherwise you are clueless. So I'm not going to try to explain what the color orange looks like to a bunch of blind kids, that would be pointless.

smiddy012
05-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Michael Jordan is overrated. His biggest competition at his position during his reign was Drexler.. Seriously? Who else did this guy even play when they were on their PEAK? Magic/Bird were not in their peak. The best player Jordan played at that time was Barkley/Hakeem.

As opposed to losing against Dirk and beating a young Durant?

smiddy012
05-21-2013, 04:58 PM
That's because you don't know the meaning of overrated. He's not God and that's what people make it out to be. He lost and lost in the playoffs before he won anything. 6/6 in the finals, congrats. Charles Barkley, Hakeem, and maybe Karl Malone were the best competition MJ ever had. Bird and Magic were past their prime when MJ started winning.

This is the same guy who has both Lebron and Kobe above MJ... I'm sure he knows what he's talking about.

Dade County
05-21-2013, 05:12 PM
HA thanks for that. Sides hurt so much from laughter i dont have to go to the gym anymore. Here let me count

1

2

3

4

5

SIXXXXXXXXXXX! rings

WHY not respond to his post about Jordan competition, at his position (SG) and league wide?

tredigs
05-21-2013, 05:46 PM
That's because you don't know the meaning of overrated. He's not God and that's what people make it out to be. He lost and lost in the playoffs before he won anything. 6/6 in the finals, congrats. Charles Barkley, Hakeem, and maybe Karl Malone were the best competition MJ ever had. Bird and Magic were past their prime when MJ started winning.

Haha oh you're cute --

Yes - Barkley + Kevin Johnson (+ Majerlie), Hakeem, Malone + Stockton, Drexler (funny that you're scoffing at a SG capable of 25/7/7 on efficiency), Shaq + Penny (a team who actually beat Chi the year MJ was fresh back from baseball right before the playoffs, but got swept the following year by 'em), Zo + Hardaway (think: The good Deron Williams + peak D. Howard with a better offensive game), Kemp + Payton (+ Schrempf), Magic + Worthy's Lakers when they were both still VERY much elite (Magic putting up 22/8/13 en route to the finals against Chi), Ewing + Starks (along with Anthony Mason + Oakley killing anyone who entered the paint), and let's not forget that they did finally handle the Bad Boy Pistons with Zeke + Rodman + Laimbeer + Dumars (swept 'em in the ECF the year after these Pistons won the finals).

Those Bulls beat all of those teams. That honestly ***** all over what Lebron has faced in the Eastern Conference to this point. Your bball knowledge is embarrassing.

tredigs
05-21-2013, 05:52 PM
WHY not respond to his post about Jordan competition, at his position (SG) and league wide?

Reggie/Clyde/Mitch Richmond not to mention all around talents + defensive stoppers like Alvin Robertson and Joe Dumars are elite talents at the SG position during his time. They tried plenty of SF's an PG's like GP as well. Never really mattered what you tried or what juggernauts were waiting in the paint. Killed pretty much everyone.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2013, 05:53 PM
Michael Jordan is overrated. His biggest competition at his position during his reign was Drexler.. Seriously? Who else did this guy even play when they were on their PEAK? Magic/Bird were not in their peak. The best player Jordan played at that time was Barkley/Hakeem.

He isn't overrated as a player at all. Best there was. A player can only play against what he was given, and don't act like he didn't play against the Bad Boys, a great Lakers team to win his first chip, and face the Jazz/Sonics/Suns, and plenty of great teams during his reign. Best stats of all time, in the hand check era, and a tenacious defender, as good as any wing in history at times.

AsiandudePH
05-21-2013, 05:58 PM
Y'know how online games are updated to make it balance and fair for every character? Well, the NBA changed rules to make it fair for everyone going up against the Bulls, particularly against Jordan. A whole book was dedicated just to stopping Jordan.

I'm not discounting LeBron's skills, he's a great player and future hall of fame. But to discount MJ and to say he's overrated? I mean, have you watched his games, especially those NON-HIGHLIGHT ones? MJ is a the greatest and will always be until surpassed by somebody. Unfortunately that somebody aint LeBron. Maybe in the future, but presently no.

And one on one players can win against another iso player in the NBA pound for pound imo. They're ALL that good.

LAKobeBryant
05-21-2013, 06:05 PM
Lebron can beat Jordan one on one.

All you need is a post game and a mid range snot to be the best one on one player thats why Kobe and Jordan are the best 1 on 1 players.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-21-2013, 06:10 PM
Lebron is the better player than Kobe. But I think Kobe's game is more comparable to Jordan.

TheIlladelph16
05-21-2013, 06:25 PM
Lebron is the better player than Kobe. But I think Kobe's game is more comparable to Jordan.

100% this. It's an odd comparison to me as they had very different skill sets. Kobe and Jordan are far more comparable in terms of style of play.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-21-2013, 06:29 PM
Anyone ever see Kobe post up Lebron and regularly get the better of him?
Well, Jordan was stronger and better at it.

+1

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-21-2013, 06:32 PM
He's smoking crack because he said BRON can beat JORDAN 1 on 1?

he didn't say MUGSY or ADAM M. then I could see where ya coming from

its plenty of players who could and would beat JORDAN 1 on 1, why does 6 rings out of 15yrs make you a 1 on 1 automatic winner? JORDAN would get his *** owned by DREXLER 1 on 1(unless they let JORDAN hack and foul away), just looked how they matched up in live games 5 on 5
Failure all over the place.

He isn't overrated as a player at all. Best there was. A player can only play against what he was given, and don't act like he didn't play against the Bad Boys, a great Lakers team to win his first chip, and face the Jazz/Sonics/Suns, and plenty of great teams during his reign. Best stats of all time, in the hand check era, and a tenacious defender, as good as any wing in history at times.

What your stance on the topic of MJ V LBJ 1v1?

--23--
05-21-2013, 06:47 PM
Man I'm sick off these debates I dealt with it during Kobe prime years and it's quite boring now. It's like every 10-15 years some guy will be compared to Jordan, while the youth fans discredit the greats of the past.

Just shut up and enjoy the game of basketball & players.

NYKalltheway
05-21-2013, 06:56 PM
I bet you Jordan can't push Bron around like he does defenders during his time...The closest thing to a great defender during Jordan era was Gary Payton. As much as people claim the NBA was more physical back then, it was only one team that was actually physical, the Pistons.

:facepalm:

Jarvo
05-21-2013, 06:59 PM
He's smoking crack because he said BRON can beat JORDAN 1 on 1?

he didn't say MUGSY or ADAM M. then I could see where ya coming from

its plenty of players who could and would beat JORDAN 1 on 1, why does 6 rings out of 15yrs make you a 1 on 1 automatic winner? JORDAN would get his *** owned by DREXLER 1 on 1(unless they let JORDAN hack and foul away), just looked how they matched up in live games 5 on 5

THANK YOU!! Jordan is the best player ever, But to say no one could beat him in a game is ****ing dumb! This is 1 on 1 not 5 on 5 and to give Jordan advantage because of rings or "will power" is dumb. It's one on one!! PSD I tel ya!

Hangtime
05-21-2013, 07:07 PM
Haha oh you're cute --

Yes - Barkley + Kevin Johnson (+ Majerlie), Hakeem, Malone + Stockton, Drexler (funny that you're scoffing at a SG capable of 25/7/7 on efficiency), Shaq + Penny (a team who actually beat Chi the year MJ was fresh back from baseball right before the playoffs, but got swept the following year by 'em), Zo + Hardaway (think: The good Deron Williams + peak D. Howard with a better offensive game), Kemp + Payton (+ Schrempf), Magic + Worthy's Lakers when they were both still VERY much elite (Magic putting up 22/8/13 en route to the finals against Chi), Ewing + Starks (along with Anthony Mason + Oakley killing anyone who entered the paint), and let's not forget that they did finally handle the Bad Boy Pistons with Zeke + Rodman + Laimbeer + Dumars (swept 'em in the ECF the year after these Pistons won the finals).

Those Bulls beat all of those teams. That honestly ***** all over what Lebron has faced in the Eastern Conference to this point. Your bball knowledge is embarrassing.

You totally forgot to mention those 98 Pacers squad. Taking them the limit.

Hangtime
05-21-2013, 07:10 PM
Reggie/Clyde/Mitch Richmond not to mention all around talents + defensive stoppers like Alvin Robertson and Joe Dumars are elite talents at the SG position during his time. They tried plenty of SF's an PG's like GP as well. Never really mattered what you tried or what juggernauts were waiting in the paint. Killed pretty much everyone.
Crazy *** Vernon "mad max" Maxwell.

tredigs
05-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Crazy *** Vernon "mad max" Maxwell.


You totally forgot to mention those 98 Pacers squad. Taking them the limit.
Yeah you're right - damn near 60 win team and Reggie + Rik always brought it. Left out a couple.

Point being, the late 80's + 90's comp was ridiculously good and for some of these kids to try to discount it is high comedy.

ztilzer31
05-21-2013, 08:31 PM
He isn't overrated as a player at all. Best there was. A player can only play against what he was given, and don't act like he didn't play against the Bad Boys, a great Lakers team to win his first chip, and face the Jazz/Sonics/Suns, and plenty of great teams during his reign. Best stats of all time, in the hand check era, and a tenacious defender, as good as any wing in history at times.

I think he's overrated. Mainly because he's credited like he was the only good player on those Bulls teams. Also sure there were great teams back then, but teams didn't have the depth they have now. They didn't have second rotations that could keep you in games against great players.

tredigs
05-21-2013, 08:44 PM
I think he's overrated. Mainly because he's credited like he was the only good player on those Bulls teams. Also sure there were great teams back then, but teams didn't have the depth they have now. They didn't have second rotations that could keep you in games against great players.

What??? First of all, who exactly doesn't acknowledge Pippen as an amazing all around offensive player and one of the top 3 wing defenders in history? He ranks inside the top 30 ever on most All Time lists - including PSD's. Rodman's another guy who ranks right around 50th all time for most people.

Phil is also majorly credited for the success of that team, as well as key role players throughout their time like Horace Grant, Kerr, Kukoc, etc. I've never seen people deny the dominance of the Bulls teams, not just MJ.

You can very well think he's overrated, but I can't get behind that line of reasoning.

tredigs
05-21-2013, 08:44 PM
DP'd

amos1er
05-21-2013, 09:22 PM
Ya I saw it. Skip really put that Lebroniac Broussard in his place.

The thing that annoyed me most was when Broussard said that Lebron didn't need to match Jordan ring for ring to surpass him...what a joke...don't know how that guy still has a job.

sammyvine
05-22-2013, 06:14 AM
Ya I saw it. Skip really put that Lebroniac Broussard in his place.

The thing that annoyed me most was when Broussard said that Lebron didn't need to match Jordan ring for ring to surpass him...what a joke...don't know how that guy still has a job.

I don't get that as well
if Lebron was on the Knicks or Cavs and won 4 or even 3 rings with them then that would be a legit argument...but he needs to win at least 4 rings to better than Jordan especially playing with all stars in bosh and wade, plus a great bench

stawka
05-22-2013, 08:16 AM
He doesn't need to match Jordan ring for ring. If that was the case, if Kobe were to win his next ring he should be 1A/1B with Jordan? If he wins another 2 is he the GOAT? Not to mention Bill Russell and the old Robert Horry argument. As pathetic as your biased posts seem, I pray that you really are not as stupid as you make yourself out to be

LeBron will be further up the ranks than Kobe ever was when he retires - hate it or love it, that's the point blank truth. Now stop hating, STFU and watch some Playoff basketball you sour fairies

fredv
05-22-2013, 08:22 AM
The thing with Jordan is that he has became such a legend, that his myth is bigger than the player he was.

It seems improbable for people who grew up thinking Jordan is the GOAT to possibly seeing someone better than him.

His legend is too big to be surpassed.

Thats why I only listen to people who really saw him (Jordan) play regularly. Because they aren't drunk on his myth.

ManningToTyree
05-22-2013, 08:24 AM
You can't even compare the talent of the eastern conference then to now. There were 3-4 championship caliber teams that never got a ring because of Jordan. Not to mention the Jazz and sonics out west. To say Lebrons level of competition is greater seems far fetched.

As far as one on one we will never know. If they are both in their prime I'm taking Jordan but it could go either way.

BklynKnicks3
05-22-2013, 09:54 AM
Oakley and Ewing....man they where something

I think lebron is the better player can do more, more complete its just sad that he can never be greater or touch jordans accomplishments by joining the heat into a setup all star team. I dont care if he gets 8 rings jordans where more impressive, the no show vs dallas will also always taint him he lost to dirk with a much better team while jordans resume is perfect in the finals and he probably would have won 2 more if he didnt retire. I thinks he will go back to cavs to a loaded cavs team with kyrie in his prime and the rest of their team developed right in time for wade to be 33 or 34. Perfect timing for another lebron shortcut

Ebbs
05-22-2013, 11:25 AM
Who the **** cares about 1 on 1

Lo Porto
05-22-2013, 11:36 AM
The thing with Jordan is that he has became such a legend, that his myth is bigger than the player he was.

It seems improbable for people who grew up thinking Jordan is the GOAT to possibly seeing someone better than him.

His legend is too big to be surpassed.

Thats why I only listen to people who really saw him (Jordan) play regularly. Because they aren't drunk on his myth.

JordansBulls
05-22-2013, 11:38 AM
Jordan 24-0 in series with HCA, Lebron is 12-3. MJ 14-0 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and Lebron is 2-3 vs 50+ win teams. Jordan 2 gold medals, while Lebron has 2 bronze medals. Jordan turned a franchise that never won into a dynasty, while Lebron joined forces with a proven winner who won a title as the man. Jordan never played with a player that won league or finals mvp, while Lebron played with Shaq and Dwyane Wade. Not to mention that Jordan was never down in a series where he had HCA from the beginning of the series. He was only down 0-1 in series. Lebron was down 1-2 and 2-3 in series with HCA even while having another superstar on his team.

Time for me to stop hating on Lebron. But I think he may be Jordan #2 just not as good as the original but close enough.

As for the topic, I don't use just rings when rating which is why guys like Gretzky and Ruth are my GOAT's in Hockey and Baseball despite not having the most rings. I compare the whole package.

Jordan didn't need 11 rings because he was on a completely different level than Russell statistically (and also Russell won 25 series to get 11 rings, MJ had to win 24 series to just get 6 rings, so the situation was not comparable here.)

MJ didn't need to average 50 ppg like Wilt because he was on a completely different level than Wilt in terms of accolades/titles (at least 100% more of the important accolades/titles - MVP's/FMVP's/titles etc.).

Lebron, however, cannot possibly be on another level from Jordan statistically
(he may end up being as good (right now MJ is #1 all time in PER in the season and playoffs and #1 all time in WS/PER 48 minutes in the season and playoffs) if he keeps up current/similar production in the regular and postseasons for another 6-8 years; it would be a marginal difference, however, unlike Russell/MJ).
Lebron also cannot amass enough accolades/titles to put himself on another level from MJ (5 MVP's, 10-11 top 3 MVP finishes, 6 FMVP's, 6 titles, defensive recognition etc.), so he would have to differentiate himself some other way - namely, statistically - but as we've seen, he really can't do that either. So yeah, he does have to basically match or exceed Jordan in all of these areas (accolades/titles, production, defensive impact), since it's unlikely that he can do enough in one of those categories to completely shatter what Jordan did in that category so as to make his sum total case for GOAT stronger overall.

Few people really grasp the enormity of what Jordan accomplished.

So to me things if the debate ever got close, MJ going 24-0 in series with HCA and always winning as the man and not having anyone on his teams who won league or finals mvp and also taking a franchise that never won before prior to him arriving and turning it into a dynasty is what I would consider a tie breaker sort to speak.

Remember the HCA, Taking an organization that never won before, etc only matters if the players are close to the same level.
So Isiah Thomas doing it on the Pistons doesn't mean much when comparing him to Magic Johnson or Larry Bird, but in comparison to someone like Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, etc it does.





Edit:

Seriously, without a star player a front office can't do much about that anyway.

And GOAT isn't just about titles, otherwise Russell would be the unquestionable GOAT, it isn't just about stats, because that would most likely mean Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT and it is also not just about the combination of stats and titles, because in that way Michael Jordan & Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would be the front runners. GOAT is also about the story behind, the way a player get to the stats and the titles, how a player approaches the challenges ahead of him, how a player is not afraid of taking responsibility for his words. That is the reason why a Larry Bird is mentioned with those others players despite the fact his stats and numbers of titles are inferior, that is the reason Magic Johnson is up there with those players. And most importantly is that the reason Michael Jordan is the GOAT in most people's mind.

It is the way Jordan fought for the championship, how he never gave up even when his teammates let him down (and they let him down a lot even in championship years, especially 1991). People always act like the Jordan Bulls were a really stacked team, but Phil Jackson was a rookie coach when he joined the Bulls (and nobody knew whether the TPO would really work out), Pippen and Grant were no were near elite players in their first couple of seasons (Pippen wasn't even considered an All-NBA player in 1991!). And later as Dennis Rodman joined the Bulls he was leaving the Spurs, because they couldn't control him and he didn't really contribute that much (the 96 Spurs had even a higher SRS than the 95 Spurs). People act like Rodman joined the Bulls in his prime, while he was already on a decline at the age of 34. The guy missed a lot of games in the first two seasons with the Bulls and those Bulls still won 72 and 69 games. Jordan never gave up, he wanted to win really badly and he done so. The Bulls with Jordan won everytime the title when they were supposed to win.
Compare that to James, who lost with a team with the best record twice in row too early in the playoffs. Yes, the team had flaws, but the 1991 Bulls for example had similar flaws. And I most certainly don't accept a player as GOAT when he is promising a championship to a team (and even saying he will not stop trying until he reached that goal) and then leaving without the title.

James is a great player, no matter what, he is the best player in the league right now, but as I said GOAT isn't just that. Joining the 2nd best player in the league and taking a borderline Top10 player with him will hurt his case. If we just look at PER, the #1, #2 and #4 from last season will join forces next season, that never happened before. And while the Celtics with Russell were stacked, they had never the #1 and #2 player in the league at the same time.

TheLegend
05-22-2013, 12:34 PM
I guess lol but I don't know why it seems so crazy that Lebron or even Kobe can beat him one on one, You guys act like if MJ is some kind of God and can't get beat in a game foh.

I mean no disrespect, but just wondering, how old are you?


If u wasnt really old enough to watch MJ play then of course you just wouldn't know

TheLegend
05-22-2013, 12:48 PM
Obviously not many posters here are 30+ years old. MJ's greatness was something you had to see for yourself, otherwise you are clueless. So I'm not going to try to explain what the color orange looks like to a bunch of blind kids, that would be pointless.

This is what I'm realizing, you can tell by some of the statements that some of these guys are teens. They have no clue how young and idiotic they look. Not even worth arguing with some of the statements, I just read it SMH.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 12:52 PM
HA thanks for that. Sides hurt so much from laughter i dont have to go to the gym anymore. Here let me count

1

2

3

4

5

SIXXXXXXXXXXX! rings

Let me chime in my 1 1/2 cents of nothing since you see to get a hard on with rings to validate a players career

food for thought i'll do the dishes

11 Bill Russell

Boston Celtics

1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69

10 Sam Jones

Boston Celtics

1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69

8 John Havlicek

Boston Celtics

1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69, 1973-74, 1975-76

8 Tom Heinsohn

Boston Celtics

1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65

8 K.C. Jones

Boston Celtics

1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66

8 Tom Sanders

Boston Celtics

1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69

7 Robert Horry

Houston Rockets

1993-94, 1994-95


Los Angeles Lakers

1999-00, 2000-01, 2001-02


San Antonio Spurs

2004-05, 2006-07

7 Jim Loscutoff

Boston Celtics

1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64

7 Frank Ramsey

Boston Celtics

1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64

6 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Los Angeles Lakers

1979-80, 1981-82, 1984-85, 1986-87, 1987-88


Milwaukee Bucks

1970-71

6 Bob Cousy

Boston Celtics

1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63

6 Michael Jordan

Chicago Bulls

1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98

6 Scottie Pippen

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 12:56 PM
People tend to look at Jordan with rose colored glasses and put him on some mythical, unattainable pedestal for sure, but I could not disagree more with you. He is very clearly the best player of all-time. I'm not sure how you can overrate someone like that.

the best ever or most decorated?

I can name individual players who had equal or more 'game' on hardwood, but add the media hype to it and I don't have a chance to make a case for no player except for a small chosen few

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 12:58 PM
Anyone ever see Kobe post up Lebron and regularly get the better of him?
Well, Jordan was stronger and better at it.

Well lets see after 10yrs of BRON being in the league I have seen BEAN post him up like 3x a game, and mostly late in games when BEAN has the ball and BRON ends up guarding him to close the game out

so I don't understand how it took you to figure that JORDAN was 2x more naturally stronger than BEAN

JORDAN shattered the backboard with 1 hand dunk, and im talking about the skinny come fly with me JORDAN version

a mirrorimage replica can never trump the authentic right? next

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Ya I saw it. Skip really put that Lebroniac Broussard in his place.

The thing that annoyed me most was when Broussard said that Lebron didn't need to match Jordan ring for ring to surpass him...what a joke...don't know how that guy still has a job.

so how come JORDAN doesn't need 12 or 11 or 10 to surpass RUSS?

it works the same way with BRON

TheIlladelph16
05-22-2013, 01:16 PM
Jordan 2 gold medals, while Lebron has 2 bronze medals.

:confused:

Pretty sure Lebron has 2 Gold Medals


the best ever or most decorated?

I can name individual players who had equal or more 'game' on hardwood, but add the media hype to it and I don't have a chance to make a case for no player except for a small chosen few

He was the best player ever and probably the most individually decorated player as well.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 01:17 PM
He isn't overrated as a player at all. Best there was. A player can only play against what he was given, and don't act like he didn't play against the Bad Boys, a great Lakers team to win his first chip, and face the Jazz/Sonics/Suns, and plenty of great teams during his reign. Best stats of all time, in the hand check era, and a tenacious defender, as good as any wing in history at times.


best is such how you view something right? SAM PERK don't hit that 3 they are swept out and basically did get swept out, it was really like the old grandpa handing the keys to his young and hungry grandson

LA was old and injured 91', MAGIC is who he was from day 1 so im sure he had a hell of a series from individual standpoint, its what he does but its a lot diff. with no ALCINDOR-WORTHY and you have to rely on VLADE and PERKINS

couldn't beat the badboys for **** and got just completely selfchecked in 4th qtr crunchtime

if it wasn't for STERN putting the smackdown on that rabid DET defense then they would have beat him everytime until age finally did'em in like to LA

He faced that basically same SONIC squad that choked it out against NUGGS right?
MALONE was biggest choke artist of his era right?

JORDAN handled his biz but not on a level where the media has it out to be

its like this 6 6 6 thing is really what put him over the top, 6 wins 6 rings 6 mvps

Now watch the new no 6 get his fair share of rings

in hand check era where they helped him out(see 88-90 seasons) to ease the toughness of the D

some of the best stats of alltime

he beat some tough teams but that expansion really made it easy to pull off that 72 win season

Good defender when focused just like any other player

JORDAN got away with grabbing slapping and all types of **** that would get called on any other player

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 01:22 PM
:confused:

Pretty sure Lebron has 2 Gold Medals



He was the best player ever and probably the most individually decorated player as well.


off eye test plus playing I feel IVERSON has just as much or more game than JORDAN

lets just take away the rings and Gatorade and space jam and go off eye test

he's no better than AI when speaking on actual game displayed on hardwood

he was just 6'4'' and AI was 5'10''

when you say best, the best player will always win a game in a series

JORDAN didn't do that but BIRD claimed he was GOD disguised as JORDAN

talk about hype, he was GOD but couldn't take that series to the wire?

you win

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 01:33 PM
I don't get that as well
if Lebron was on the Knicks or Cavs and won 4 or even 3 rings with them then that would be a legit argument...but he needs to win at least 4 rings to better than Jordan especially playing with all stars in bosh and wade, plus a great bench

How come BRON taking that CAVS squad to 07' Finals don't count?

how come JORDAN couldn't take that BULLS squad to Finals app. in BRON-AI type fashion before PIPP 'developed' into allstar?

that's why I know BRON-AI-HAKEEM are some of the best-top impact players of alltime,no rings needed

HORACE GRANT is equal to SHAQ and DUNCAN as a player because he matches they 4 rings(psd geniuses)

SLATER MARTIN is equal to BEAN because he matches his 5 rings and even one upped him by doing it with the MINNY LAKERS, he was a legendary LAKER before BEAN

TheLegend
05-22-2013, 01:53 PM
off eye test plus playing I feel IVERSON has just as much or more game than JORDAN

lets just take away the rings and Gatorade and space jam and go off eye test

he's no better than AI when speaking on actual game displayed on hardwood

he was just 6'4'' and AI was 5'10''

when you say best, the best player will always win a game in a series

JORDAN didn't do that but BIRD claimed he was GOD disguised as JORDAN

talk about hype, he was GOD but couldn't take that series to the wire?

you win

Put the pipe down dude. Jordan over Iverson by a landslide kid.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-22-2013, 01:58 PM
off eye test plus playing I feel IVERSON has just as much or more game than JORDAN

lets just take away the rings and Gatorade and space jam and go off eye test

he's no better than AI when speaking on actual game displayed on hardwood

he was just 6'4'' and AI was 5'10''

when you say best, the best player will always win a game in a series

JORDAN didn't do that but BIRD claimed he was GOD disguised as JORDAN

talk about hype, he was GOD but couldn't take that series to the wire?

you win

good god, just stop posting.

TheIlladelph16
05-22-2013, 04:38 PM
Sorry dude.

AI is one of my favorite players of all-time who I'll defend to the death, but to even put his name in the same sentence as Jordan in a GOAT discussion is ludicrous. Top 20-30 player of all-time for sure imo... where he falls exactly in that range is subjective depending on what people value more in a player.

Sandman
05-22-2013, 04:42 PM
Sorry dude.

AI is one of my favorite players of all-time who I'll defend to the death, but to even put his name in the same sentence as Jordan in a GOAT discussion is ludicrous. Top 20-30 player of all-time for sure imo... where he falls exactly in that range is subjective depending on what people value more in a player.
Not saying I agree, but he was saying give Iverson + 8" to go from 5-10 to 6-6.. I think thats a healthy debate.

TheIlladelph16
05-22-2013, 04:49 PM
Not saying I agree, but he was saying give Iverson + 8" to go from 5-10 to 6-6.. I think thats a healthy debate.

Yeah I kinda understood what he was getting at, even though it's terribly difficult to find the point of his posts sometimes. If Iverson was 6'6"..... Idk what that would mean actually. His entire style of play might be completely different. He wouldn't have to play with reckless abandon and a chip on his shoulder as the small guy among the trees. He could possibly be better for sure though.

I just typically don't like hypothetical debates. We can only measure a player for what he actually was, not an enhanced mythical version.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 05:05 PM
Failure all over the place.


What your stance on the topic of MJ V LBJ 1v1?

I think the failure is you have never competed in any sports let alone bball for that matter

to say BRON can beat JORDAN 1 on 1 is failure all over the place?
to say MUGSY and ADAM would get destroyed and shouldn't be compared to JORDAN 1 on 1 is a failure?
its not plenty of players who could beat JORDAN 1 on 1? did you just watch JORDAN games growing up and no other player?

now reply with another fail of a quote

now I see why you get destroyed on here by basically everyone

TheLegend
05-22-2013, 05:13 PM
Not saying I agree, but he was saying give Iverson + 8" to go from 5-10 to 6-6.. I think thats a healthy debate.

Even of Iverson is 6'6", its no debate. His attitude and mentality takes him out of the discussion.

Look, there's a lot of basketball players that can avg. 30 ppg and put- up Jordanesque numbers, but there is something to be said for the mental part of the game. U are fooling yourself if u think heart, passion, and will doesn't mean something. Jordan's competive nature was unmatced, his killer instinct and fire was unparalleled. He wanted to dominate and was never satisfied with just a few championships. When Jordan had 4 championships he was more hungrier than the next superstar who didnt have any.

You can tell by some of the comments that a lot of you are teenagers. Because if you ever watched Jordan from the start of his career then you would know he was the GOAT CLEARLY! stop looking at YouTube vids of MJ and thinking you saw him play.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 05:16 PM
Yeah I kinda understood what he was getting at, even though it's terribly difficult to find the point of his posts sometimes. If Iverson was 6'6"..... Idk what that would mean actually. His entire style of play might be completely different. He wouldn't have to play with reckless abandon and a chip on his shoulder as the small guy among the trees. He could possibly be better for sure though.

I just typically don't like hypothetical debates. We can only measure a player for what he actually was, not an enhanced mythical version.

Im saying that IVERSON played like he was 6'6'' and up on the hardwood, he didn't play like he was under 6ft

im not trying to say if he was 6'6'', that's what makes his game so much more legit

he could outshoot JORDAN from anywhere, preNBA

that's the tricky thing with IVERSON, he never improved nothing in nba, he had all that top notch from the freakish athlete part to the highly supreme skilled all combined into a under 6ft player at G'TOWN,JORDAN didn't have that nor a **** load of other players but he did have athletic part of it, its probably only a handful Guard wise with that type of combo(most just have 1 or the other but not both at supreme level), its what made BRON so damn scary coming out of HS, he had 25ft range on his scouting report, now combine that with his unreal freakish athleticism

JORDAN had to work on his 3pt shot and sharpen his jumper in nba

IVERSON had all that and could play above the rim at G'TOWN

and should we even question the mental and physical toughness or competiveness of both? to me its a wash

they were both top flight at that but IVERSON thought bball was soft and loved football over bball

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 05:21 PM
Sorry dude.

AI is one of my favorite players of all-time who I'll defend to the death, but to even put his name in the same sentence as Jordan in a GOAT discussion is ludicrous. Top 20-30 player of all-time for sure imo... where he falls exactly in that range is subjective depending on what people value more in a player.



“He’s an incredible player, one of the top 10 in history,” former Pistons coach Chuck Daly told a visitor before Iverson ignited and torched Detroit’s defense for game-high totals of 37 points and 15 assists in a 2005 game at Wachovia Center


I feel just like DALY without relying on DALY's quote, remember now this the same DALY that coached the original dream team and beat BIRD-MAGIC-JORDAN all In they 'psd prime'


Chuck Daly, on a mission to stop the high-scoring Iverson, delved into his formidable memory bank and searched for a scheme that might help. He found it in a dusty old folder bearing a familiar name.

Michael Jordan.

A little retro-strategy by an old master has spiced up this first-round series between Daly's Orlando Magic and the Philadelphia 76ers. In Game 3 Thursday night in Philadelphia, the 76ers will have to come up with an answer for Daly's latest masterpiece -- the "Iverson Rules."

Magic coach Chuck Daly is using the type of defense on Iverson that he used to implement against Michael Jordan

"They deserve to win this series," said Magic coach Chuck Daly, who watched Iverson score 30 or more points in three of four games in the series. "This was Allen Iverson's show. He scored 37 points on 14-of-27 shooting and he is such a tough competitor. I don't think you '''(the media)''' realize all the things he does."

sammyvine
05-22-2013, 05:21 PM
will any basketball player ever have a bigger brand than ''jordan brand'' and all the shoes, clothing etc....
maybe kobe?

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 05:39 PM
good god, just stop posting.

so sensitive and catchy feelings aint we

now peep game and watch what im speaking on and maybe you can use your own advice and stop posting

http://youtu.be/Vx9tvsFeTLQ - JORDAN college

http://youtu.be/mKYFukp8g8M - IVERSON college

now tell me from the eye test that I should stop posting? do you even play ball and have a impact when you play? I know I do

http://youtu.be/MJa7z6ru7kU - IVERSON at 18yrs old

http://youtu.be/aT5P5O8LkmY - Same exact killer game preNBA, like I said you are who you are until hype is involved

http://youtu.be/TDZuh_vzPlc - unreal explosiveness preNBA

now go watch his nba career highlights and I guarantee you he played the same exact style, just like all the other nba players do until hype(rings) get involved in the 'best' player debate

Now you stop reacting like you grew up with this JORDAN guy

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 05:47 PM
Put the pipe down dude. Jordan over Iverson by a landslide kid.

Check the vids I posted and then put the meth/acid/molly and whatever new invented caveman drug that's out there down and never do'em again

by a landslide, child please

JORDAN was just taller/bigger player

IVERSON could do whatever he wanted on the court, he had better skill coming out so how would he not end with better skill?

why do people get so offensive when its so obvious, game film don't lie

valade16
05-22-2013, 05:56 PM
3RDASYSTEM - What does it matter how good Iverson was in college compared to Jordan in college? You don't judge on who got there fastest or who had more potential or who was better earlier. You judge who was the best.

I mean, Andrew Wiggins was better in 6th grade than Iverson was, does that mean Wiggins is now better than Iverson? No, because you compare the players at their best...

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 06:00 PM
Even of Iverson is 6'6", its no debate. His attitude and mentality takes him out of the discussion.

Look, there's a lot of basketball players that can avg. 30 ppg and put- up Jordanesque numbers, but there is something to be said for the mental part of the game. U are fooling yourself if u think heart, passion, and will doesn't mean something. Jordan's competive nature was unmatced, his killer instinct and fire was unparalleled. He wanted to dominate and was never satisfied with just a few championships. When Jordan had 4 championships he was more hungrier than the next superstar who didnt have any.

You can tell by some of the comments that a lot of you are teenagers. Because if you ever watched Jordan from the start of his career then you would know he was the GOAT CLEARLY! stop looking at YouTube vids of MJ and thinking you saw him play.

first off his attitude and mental is no diff. than JORDAN, both killer attitude/mental but only diff. is IVERSON never choked a mate in practice(KERR) or slap-punch a player in the refs face and not get a tech or ejected(JORDAN vs MILLER), talk about attitude probs

the late great DALY said IVERSON was the closest to JORDAN mental competitive level on that rookie special show back then

IVERSON was forced to score 30 and shoot 30x because of playing with MCKIE/SNOW, JORDAN was in similar position when they called him a ballhog, but I looked at'em both scoring with purpose to win, lack of another reliable scorer or two, its reason why IVERSON fg pct was so low, he had to overshoot for lack of weapons

if heart passion and will mean something tell me where IVERSON slacked to JORDAN in those areas? you are really fooling yourself, IVERSON was just 5'10'' which hurt him, its a big mans league no matter what pundits say

once upon a time before he had those 4 rings he was hungry and getting his *** swept out and crying to STERN about that physical D that shut his *** down in crunchtime-4th qtr(isn't that JORDAN's lane?taking over the game right?)

you're right some of these teens need to fall back and not comment(especially if they don't play ball at all), but im not in that group so I know what im talking about

its the reason why I posted IVERSON-JORDAN college mix so you can see it for yourself, the game film don't lie so don't try and knock youtube, they showing highlights of the actual game on the hardwood, you know the 'eye test' factor

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 06:20 PM
3RDASYSTEM - What does it matter how good Iverson was in college compared to Jordan in college? You don't judge on who got there fastest or who had more potential or who was better earlier. You judge who was the best.

I mean, Andrew Wiggins was better in 6th grade than Iverson was, does that mean Wiggins is now better than Iverson? No, because you compare the players at their best...

college vs 6th grade

you do realize that SHAQ at LSU was the same at ORL-LA right? just heavier

JORDAN was a scorer/athlete, he just played with WORTHY-PERK in college but as soon as he got to NBA rookie yr what did he do? 28ppg score

IVERSON was combo guard at G'TOWN and what did he do rookie nba yr, basically 24 and 8(basically ROSE mvp numbers)

now in 6th grade WIGGINS was probably taller than AI but from bball standpoint that's about only advantage he had

wow 6th grade vs sophomore in college next step nba , wow

when you reach for straws I guess you gotta reach deep

6th grade vs college/nba, wow

more you look at it my way,the more clear the meaning of 'game-impact' means

players have the same game day1 nba, that's them at they best, not when they start winning rings

you think SHAQ became alltime legend to me because he won a 3peat? I thought he was that when I saw 5guys swarm him in ncaa tourney, and then it carried on to the nba(triple teams)

you think BRON dropped from my alltime status because he lost in 11' finals but destroyed the league for 7yrs prior with a Finals app. playing with basically AI type talent? do you think he got that status back just because he won the ring in 12'? no his game is his game, nothing can take away from that

game is game, impact is impact, day 1

at their best is some agend media type **** to fit your criteria

I don't have one, I just tell you whos the best of the best,eye test

valade16
05-22-2013, 06:29 PM
college vs 6th grade

you do realize that SHAQ at LSU was the same at ORL-LA right? just heavier

JORDAN was a scorer/athlete, he just played with WORTHY-PERK in college but as soon as he got to NBA rookie yr what did he do? 28ppg score

IVERSON was combo guard at G'TOWN and what did he do rookie nba yr, basically 24 and 8(basically ROSE mvp numbers)

now in 6th grade WIGGINS was probably taller than AI but from bball standpoint that's about only advantage he had

wow 6th grade vs sophomore in college next step nba , wow

when you reach for straws I guess you gotta reach deep

6th grade vs college/nba, wow

more you look at it my way,the more clear the meaning of 'game-impact' means

Your condescension aside, you're still wrong.

Jordan was crazy talented even in college. His Junior year he won:

Wooden award
Naismith award
USBWA player of the year
UPI player of the year
sporting news player of the year
Rupp trophy
NABC player of the year
Consensun 1st team All-American
AP Player of the year

Even the year before he was a consensus 1st team All-American.

What exactly are you saying? Your point is rambling and incoherent. Your thoughts asinine, and your delivery juvenile.

Come back when you have a point besdies "Iverson has good youtube highlight films"...

Sandman
05-22-2013, 06:49 PM
Even of Iverson is 6'6", its no debate. His attitude and mentality takes him out of the discussion.

Look, there's a lot of basketball players that can avg. 30 ppg and put- up Jordanesque numbers, but there is something to be said for the mental part of the game. U are fooling yourself if u think heart, passion, and will doesn't mean something. Jordan's competive nature was unmatced, his killer instinct and fire was unparalleled. He wanted to dominate and was never satisfied with just a few championships. When Jordan had 4 championships he was more hungrier than the next superstar who didnt have any.

You can tell by some of the comments that a lot of you are teenagers. Because if you ever watched Jordan from the start of his career then you would know he was the GOAT CLEARLY! stop looking at YouTube vids of MJ and thinking you saw him play.

Agreed on all points, but all that was said was game (which I take to be more offensive than defensive), not will, diligence, determination or drive. Practice? We talkin bout practice? No that guy could never come close to MJ if he was 8ft tall. But he could have been just as crazy to watch.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-22-2013, 07:15 PM
3rdasystem is a bottom 5 poster on psd.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 07:46 PM
Your condescension aside, you're still wrong.

Jordan was crazy talented even in college. His Junior year he won:

Wooden award
Naismith award
USBWA player of the year
UPI player of the year
sporting news player of the year
Rupp trophy
NABC player of the year
Consensun 1st team All-American
AP Player of the year

Even the year before he was a consensus 1st team All-American.

What exactly are you saying? Your point is rambling and incoherent. Your thoughts asinine, and your delivery juvenile.

Come back when you have a point besdies "Iverson has good youtube highlight films"...

Exactly so now you know JORDAN had the same game preNBA,jus like IVERSON, just like SHAQ,just like WILT, just like ALCINDOR, just like BARKLEY(he improved 3pt shot later in phx) and so on and on

JORDAN was who he was just like IVERSON was and so on to the nba hardwood

appreciate the JORDAN ncaa accolades

I recall the media experts in SI said that IVERSON got robbed of ncaa player of yr, he had them ranked like top 6 that yr with avg nba role players in JUNK YARD DOG and that other avg big man

game is game, JORDAN didn't have more game than IVERSON

what could JORDAN do that AI couldn't do better? dunk a ball?

see what I mean when you take away the hype(rings-commericals) and just look at the hardwood game-impact

youtube highlights didn't come from the actual games they played?

so If I posted JORDAN vs UTAH 98' when he hit that shot it wont count cause its on 'youtube'?

damn those IVERSON youtube vids must bring back chills of actual killer 'game'




Juvenile talk? game is game, all I said is they had the same style game since ncaa and IVERSON was just as good or better individually(juvenile league) since my talk is so juvenile....it all starts from day1 in nba, not 10yrs later to figure out how good a player is, its right there in your face, can you not comprehend that like the rest


its like when I have this type of convo debate with people who play or ex players they all understand but maybe not agree with all,but most do agree

but on here everytime I speak same exact thing all you non players get so offensive and now I understand

its okay not to understand that players usually have the same exact game/style when they enter the league

like JORDAN at UNC like AI at G'TOWN like VINCE at UNC like SHAQ at LSU like BEAN coming straight out of HS like BRON straight out of HS like BIRD out of INDIANA ST. like MAGIC out of MICH ST.

what did BRON do his first 5yrs in league that he hasn't done his past 5 game-style wise? he played the same way before he entered the league or were you sleeping under a rock when he entered draft? same with MAGIC same with IVERSON

have you ever played ball before?

now do you understand since what im saying is so asinine and rambling and incoherent

why is understanding the impact and game of a player so hard to decipher instantly? how come JORDAN is such a different player by winning 6 out of 8yrs but nothing his first 6yrs? why those 6yrs don't count or even the WIZ stint where they didn't make a playoff app., or why don't those first 6yrs take away from how dominant he was on hardwood? because it doesn't, he was who he was before the stupid double 3peat...just like BRON didn't fall off in 11' only to reclaim his spot in 12', he was who he was

damn this cant be that difficult to grab a hold of

not saying they should have won it all but JORDAN should have made the playoffs, like he should have won a game against any early career playoff opp. because he is the 'greatest' right

not the best individual player but the greatest individual player, like how BEAN is the greatest laker of alltime(had WILT-ALCINDOR-SHAQ been drafted by la it wouldn't be close whos the best or greatest laker)

naps
05-22-2013, 07:55 PM
It would be close. Could go either way really. LeBron has the physical advantage though.

And one 1 one winning doesn't make anyone a better player by any means. Could Shaq guard someone like Nate Robinson? Exactly. And that "Will" to win **** is so overblown it drives most people crazy. Everybody wants to win and all superstars try but it all depends on how good your team is and how skillful you are.

naps
05-22-2013, 08:00 PM
college vs 6th grade

you do realize that SHAQ at LSU was the same at ORL-LA right? just heavier

JORDAN was a scorer/athlete, he just played with WORTHY-PERK in college but as soon as he got to NBA rookie yr what did he do? 28ppg score

IVERSON was combo guard at G'TOWN and what did he do rookie nba yr, basically 24 and 8(basically ROSE mvp numbers)

now in 6th grade WIGGINS was probably taller than AI but from bball standpoint that's about only advantage he had

wow 6th grade vs sophomore in college next step nba , wow

when you reach for straws I guess you gotta reach deep

6th grade vs college/nba, wow

more you look at it my way,the more clear the meaning of 'game-impact' means

players have the same game day1 nba, that's them at they best, not when they start winning rings

you think SHAQ became alltime legend to me because he won a 3peat? I thought he was that when I saw 5guys swarm him in ncaa tourney, and then it carried on to the nba(triple teams)

you think BRON dropped from my alltime status because he lost in 11' finals but destroyed the league for 7yrs prior with a Finals app. playing with basically AI type talent? do you think he got that status back just because he won the ring in 12'? no his game is his game, nothing can take away from that

game is game, impact is impact, day 1

at their best is some agend media type **** to fit your criteria

I don't have one, I just tell you whos the best of the best,eye test

Man, why do I always feel like skipping your posts? May be you can make your posts a little more organized? They look like a zillion of sperms under a microscope like you can never count them.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 08:27 PM
Man, why do I always feel like skipping your posts? May be you can make your posts a little more organized? They look like a zillion of sperms under a microscope like you can never count them.

Man why you always act like you cant understand basic *** bball posts?????

follow me on this basic ****


why don't you understand that IVERSON's hardwood game-impact was better and no less than JORDAN's

you know like how BRON took that 07' team to Finals is equivalent to AI's 01' run

I saw BRON drop like 25 straight and I saw AI drop like 19 straight pts and carried teams further than they should have went but it was the impact-hardwood game that made them so damn good

IVERSON had it way more difficult being damn near a foot shorter than BRON but still willing to shoot 30x for his team to compete

now how many sperms is that right there? keep count for me, I appreciate it

how come you nerds reply with disses and no substance to refute what im saying

im saying everything that actually happened on hardwood,where the games are played and shown via youtube if you missed it live

Redskins10
05-22-2013, 09:32 PM
Is that all they ever talk about on first take? I swear they've been talking about Jordan/Lebron one on one for the last 5 years.

Redskins10
05-22-2013, 09:34 PM
Btw Lebron can beat Jordan one on one. Obviously I won't say he would because no one knows for sure but he certainly has a chance. All of you acting like it's some absurd feat are either severe Lebron haters or extremely deluded.

dalton749
05-22-2013, 10:15 PM
in 100 games lebron wins 55

jordan tied charlie sheen and his dad 5-5 in a 2 on 1 lol

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 10:21 PM
3rdasystem is a bottom 5 poster on psd.

Says the bottom 5 poster

Hawkeye15
05-22-2013, 10:31 PM
are we now comparing Iverson, lucky to be top 40 ever, to the GOAT?

Pierzynski4Prez
05-22-2013, 10:38 PM
Sadly we are. We're all idiots here except for 1 genius.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 10:41 PM
are we now comparing Iverson, lucky to be top 40 ever, to the GOAT?

Show me your best player list

not greatest or most media hyped

im talking you watching the game on tv or in the stands and can say he's the best player, I don't care on what level from HS to JUCO to NCAA to overseas to NBA and so on

I'll be shocked if you can name 10 players who had better hardwood game plus impact on the court

top 40 is funny

name me any other player in history of nba who could have done anything with 7yrs of MCKIE/SNOW as your core mates

now that's even funnier than him being top 40

SHAQ called him a mini me version of himself and AI's top 40?

a coach who coached(DALY) and beat several players who im sure would make your so called top 5-10 list quoted him being a top 10 player in history of the game

top 40 is super funny

and no we are not comparing a lucky to be top 40 vs the goat

we are comparing game vs game, its why I posted those vids and Im sure after watching you probably see same thing I been saying since my inception on psd

its why everybody on here cant comprehend natural 'game'

they rely on PER/WS and all this other science to determine where a player ranks

NJrockPD
05-22-2013, 10:43 PM
Lebron can beat Jordan one on one.

Jordan is 51 years old right? If LeBron can't beat Jordan one on one this debate is a moot point as to who the better player is.


I bet you Jordan can't push Bron around like he does defenders during his time...The closest thing to a great defender during Jordan era was Gary Payton. As much as people claim the NBA was more physical back then, it was only one team that was actually physical, the Pistons.

No one can push Bron around because no one can touch/ breathe on Lebron without getting a technical foul. A good example is when Nate Robinson almost got called for a Technical 2 for grazing James in the opened court. Let's keep in mind Lebron is 6'8" 270 while Nate is 5'9" and 190 so its pretty embarrassing to think of the beating he would take if people could physically go after him like players did against Jordan. Also how old are you because there were plenty of good defenders in Jordan's era. The NBA doesn't allow players to play defense anymore.


but to pipe in, the will to win is really overrated as it is really based on teammates, circumstances, and tons of luck. Not saying Jordan's feat and accomplishments were nothing but a lot of things had to go right for him to win as well.

So Jordan's feats are overrated because of teammates, circumstances, and tons of luck. LBJ came into the league as the most hyped player ever. He luckily went to his hometown team, which just added to his already immense popularity. He had teams built around him for years, but he couldn't do it by himself. So he assembled a team that was bound to win. It was filled with young superstars that were so sure they would win that they boldly claimed to win what 7 championships in a row. In 1996-97 the NBA's average ppg per team was 96.9, the year after that it was 95.6, in 1999 is was down to 91.6 ppg. Since Lebron has been on in the NBA those numbers have been at or closer to 100 ppg, much higher than in the Jordan Era. LBJ has teamed up with 2 stars so his teammates are AT LEAST as good as Jordan's, he plays in an era that benefits scorers especially ones that drive to the hoop because if there is any contact you get an additional free throw so the circumstances for LeBron are much better than they were for Jordan, and finally I don't know what luck befitted Jordan, but the evil NBA machine is just as helpful to LBJ as it was to Jordan. Lebron gets every call Jordan would have gotten from officials and more because the rules of the game have changed so much.

Just to prove a point watch these videos.

Lebron James mix - King of Flop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZpGKC62qvs

Michael Jordan the greatest of all time vs Old School Real Defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adusCcba89o

Read the summary below too and go to 6:00 in with the Pippen interview. The defensive specialist says you can't play defense like I did anymore.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 10:56 PM
Sadly we are. We're all idiots here except for 1 genius.

It has to be me since I've been called all types of names on here so I would have to be that '1' also

they say a genius is close to insane as it can get right?

its funny how this debate happens all the time until the non players get involved and cant understand basic bball talk, and events that actually happened

it should be a new rule to where only people who actually play can post on here

Pierzynski4Prez
05-22-2013, 11:00 PM
i wish I knew bball talk

is it like this

with one half sentence at a time

and each sentence is a new paragraph

where the only thing to back up our comments is our word on the eye test

Hawkeye15
05-22-2013, 11:07 PM
Show me your best player list

not greatest or most media hyped

im talking you watching the game on tv or in the stands and can say he's the best player, I don't care on what level from HS to JUCO to NCAA to overseas to NBA and so on

I'll be shocked if you can name 10 players who had better hardwood game plus impact on the court

top 40 is funny

name me any other player in history of nba who could have done anything with 7yrs of MCKIE/SNOW as your core mates

now that's even funnier than him being top 40

SHAQ called him a mini me version of himself and AI's top 40?

a coach who coached(DALY) and beat several players who im sure would make your so called top 5-10 list quoted him being a top 10 player in history of the game

top 40 is super funny

and no we are not comparing a lucky to be top 40 vs the goat

we are comparing game vs game, its why I posted those vids and Im sure after watching you probably see same thing I been saying since my inception on psd

its why everybody on here cant comprehend natural 'game'

they rely on PER/WS and all this other science to determine where a player ranks

Iverson is somewhere in my late 30's.

He had absolutely nowhere near the impact Jordan did, nor the impact a bunch of other players had.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-22-2013, 11:12 PM
One time his 76ers team won over 50 games. 1 time.

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 11:31 PM
One time his 76ers team won over 50 games. 1 time.


7yrs with your sidekick-robin as MCKIE-SNOW(your choice to pick 1)

now how in the hell did he win 49 games and 56(sat out final 5) with that 7yr core? that's a miracle

he inherited those 2 players who combined were avg a whopping 5-6ppg

this is too funny once it sinks in the avg rosters he had

if BRON and CP3 had weak rosters before switching squads then imagine what AI had in PHI for 10yrs

he went from that core to KTHOMAS to IGGY-KORVER, just pathetic management

3RDASYSTEM
05-22-2013, 11:34 PM
Iverson is somewhere in my late 30's.

He had absolutely nowhere near the impact Jordan did, nor the impact a bunch of other players had.

STERN actually wanted him to be JORDAN

its why IVERSON was a rebel, he didn't want to wear suits, its documented

on the court it was nowhere near? you must be thinking of NIKE-BIGMAC-GATORADE-HANES-SPACEJAM


game is right on cue, advantage IVERSON

see the vid preNBA, they had same style game before even coming to league and displayed it once they arrived, why is that so hard to wrap your genius brain around?

JORDAN was just taller

he didn't have more skill
he didn't have more athletic ability(AI could play pro in 3 sports)
he didn't have more natural talent
he wasn't mentally or physically tougher,just taller-bigger player
his will wasn't stronger(AI did prison time in HS,didnt play no sports senior yr)
neither were scared of no pressure in game situation, both embraced the big shot

now whats left to measure a players game? the hardwood

Pierzynski4Prez
05-22-2013, 11:37 PM
7yrs with your sidekick-robin as MCKIE-SNOW(your choice to pick 1)

now how in the hell did he win 49 games and 56(sat out final 5) with that 7yr core? that's a miracle

he inherited those 2 players who combined were avg a whopping 5-6ppg

this is too funny once it sinks in the avg rosters he had

if BRON and CP3 had weak rosters before switching squads then imagine what AI had in PHI for 10yrs

he went from that core to KTHOMAS to IGGY-KORVER, just pathetic management

Care to back this up for us really quick

no youtube videos or eye test now

this is purely statistical

ill wait

amos1er
05-23-2013, 12:05 AM
Haha oh you're cute --

Yes - Barkley + Kevin Johnson (+ Majerlie), Hakeem, Malone + Stockton, Drexler (funny that you're scoffing at a SG capable of 25/7/7 on efficiency), Shaq + Penny (a team who actually beat Chi the year MJ was fresh back from baseball right before the playoffs, but got swept the following year by 'em), Zo + Hardaway (think: The good Deron Williams + peak D. Howard with a better offensive game), Kemp + Payton (+ Schrempf), Magic + Worthy's Lakers when they were both still VERY much elite (Magic putting up 22/8/13 en route to the finals against Chi), Ewing + Starks (along with Anthony Mason + Oakley killing anyone who entered the paint), and let's not forget that they did finally handle the Bad Boy Pistons with Zeke + Rodman + Laimbeer + Dumars (swept 'em in the ECF the year after these Pistons won the finals).

Those Bulls beat all of those teams. That honestly ***** all over what Lebron has faced in the Eastern Conference to this point. Your bball knowledge is embarrassing.

Just took a **** all over Oceanspray. lulz. Seriously, I can't believe that guy is comparing Lebron to Jordan. Cute was a good way to describe it.

OceanSpray
05-23-2013, 02:03 AM
Tredigs, you're such a fail at everything. Jordan is 1-10 or something in the playoffs without Pippen. What kind of GOAT can't win 2 playoff games without Pippen? I don't care who you're going up against, LeBron carried a completely scrub team to the finals. You need 12 games to reach the finals, LeBron did it. It's not a coincidence that many NBA legends believe LeBron is the best. Sorry, Jordan is overrated. His team was far superior against the teams he played against. Remember when Jordan punched Miller and Miller was ejected? NBA needed someone to carry the league because it wasn't up there in comparison to MLB and NFL. Jordan was that guy who elevated the sport and NBA did a great job covering his mishaps. I cannot call someone GOAT when they couldn't win 2 playoff games without Pippen.

OceanSpray
05-23-2013, 02:04 AM
Just took a **** all over Oceanspray. lulz. Seriously, I can't believe that guy is comparing Lebron to Jordan. Cute was a good way to describe it.

Come back next year when Kobe plays again. You and Illusionist are pathetic.

OceanSpray
05-23-2013, 02:05 AM
Jordan is 51 years old right? If LeBron can't beat Jordan one on one this debate is a moot point as to who the better player is.



No one can push Bron around because no one can touch/ breathe on Lebron without getting a technical foul. A good example is when Nate Robinson almost got called for a Technical 2 for grazing James in the opened court. Let's keep in mind Lebron is 6'8" 270 while Nate is 5'9" and 190 so its pretty embarrassing to think of the beating he would take if people could physically go after him like players did against Jordan. Also how old are you because there were plenty of good defenders in Jordan's era. The NBA doesn't allow players to play defense anymore.



So Jordan's feats are overrated because of teammates, circumstances, and tons of luck. LBJ came into the league as the most hyped player ever. He luckily went to his hometown team, which just added to his already immense popularity. He had teams built around him for years, but he couldn't do it by himself. So he assembled a team that was bound to win. It was filled with young superstars that were so sure they would win that they boldly claimed to win what 7 championships in a row. In 1996-97 the NBA's average ppg per team was 96.9, the year after that it was 95.6, in 1999 is was down to 91.6 ppg. Since Lebron has been on in the NBA those numbers have been at or closer to 100 ppg, much higher than in the Jordan Era. LBJ has teamed up with 2 stars so his teammates are AT LEAST as good as Jordan's, he plays in an era that benefits scorers especially ones that drive to the hoop because if there is any contact you get an additional free throw so the circumstances for LeBron are much better than they were for Jordan, and finally I don't know what luck befitted Jordan, but the evil NBA machine is just as helpful to LBJ as it was to Jordan. Lebron gets every call Jordan would have gotten from officials and more because the rules of the game have changed so much.

Just to prove a point watch these videos.

Lebron James mix - King of Flop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZpGKC62qvs

Michael Jordan the greatest of all time vs Old School Real Defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adusCcba89o

Read the summary below too and go to 6:00 in with the Pippen interview. The defensive specialist says you can't play defense like I did anymore.

MJ averaged more FT's per game than LeBron has.. What are you talking about? MJ is the master of getting calls.

tredigs
05-23-2013, 04:28 AM
Sometimes I've gotta wonder if many of the younger bucks understand just how good Jordan was defensively. There's a lot of people who think he was the toughest defender in the league - and that's playing alongside Pippen + Rodman and against guys like David Robinson, Ewing and Hakeem.

tredigs
05-23-2013, 04:45 AM
Gotta get a good laugh at this OceanSpray kid and the comment of "I don't care who you're playing against he couldn't win as a kid without Pippen!" when we're talking about the peak Bird/Parish/McHale Championship Celtics squads and peak Bad Boy Pistons that obviously handled MJ and a weak cast. I'd put money on either of those squads to win the ship this year in this NBA if Wade is not in max form (which he obviously isn't). If he was, it would be a battle.

bootleg42
05-23-2013, 05:17 AM
I bet you Jordan can't push Bron around like he does defenders during his time...The closest thing to a great defender during Jordan era was Gary Payton. As much as people claim the NBA was more physical back then, it was only one team that was actually physical, the Pistons.

ONLY the Pistons were physical back then?????

You forget the 90's Knicks that actually once caused Scottie Pippen to ask to be seated because he had migraines from getting close-lined all day???

You forget enforcers like Charles Oakley, Dale and Antonio Davis, Dennis Rodman, Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo, Anthony Mason and slightly lesser guys like PJ Brown, Otis Thorpe, Horace Grant, etc. And of course there were legendary defenders like Hakeem Olajuwon, Gary Payton, David Robinson, Alonzo Mourning, Scottie Pippen and, yes, Michael Jordan.

sammyvine
05-23-2013, 05:29 AM
if lebron joined the bucks...will all these ''heat fans'' still support the heat?

sammyvine
05-23-2013, 05:30 AM
Tredigs, you're such a fail at everything. Jordan is 1-10 or something in the playoffs without Pippen. What kind of GOAT can't win 2 playoff games without Pippen? I don't care who you're going up against, LeBron carried a completely scrub team to the finals. You need 12 games to reach the finals, LeBron did it. It's not a coincidence that many NBA legends believe LeBron is the best. Sorry, Jordan is overrated. His team was far superior against the teams he played against. Remember when Jordan punched Miller and Miller was ejected? NBA needed someone to carry the league because it wasn't up there in comparison to MLB and NFL. Jordan was that guy who elevated the sport and NBA did a great job covering his mishaps. I cannot call someone GOAT when they couldn't win 2 playoff games without Pippen.

So Lebron is the GOAT?
Howcome Lebron hasnt won so far without Wade and Bosh?

sammyvine
05-23-2013, 05:32 AM
Come back next year when Kobe plays again. You and Illusionist are pathetic.

Your not a heat fan, your a lebron fan....
I don't take ''stans'' seriously as they will make their player look good no matter what, hence a lot of things you say.
Lebron is flawless to you, the GOAT with 1 ring, whilst Jordan doesnt match up.
Like i said, your not a basketball fan, your a Lebron fan.

sammyvine
05-23-2013, 05:33 AM
Show me your best player list

not greatest or most media hyped

im talking you watching the game on tv or in the stands and can say he's the best player, I don't care on what level from HS to JUCO to NCAA to overseas to NBA and so on

I'll be shocked if you can name 10 players who had better hardwood game plus impact on the court

top 40 is funny

name me any other player in history of nba who could have done anything with 7yrs of MCKIE/SNOW as your core mates

now that's even funnier than him being top 40

SHAQ called him a mini me version of himself and AI's top 40?

a coach who coached(DALY) and beat several players who im sure would make your so called top 5-10 list quoted him being a top 10 player in history of the game

top 40 is super funny

and no we are not comparing a lucky to be top 40 vs the goat

we are comparing game vs game, its why I posted those vids and Im sure after watching you probably see same thing I been saying since my inception on psd

its why everybody on here cant comprehend natural 'game'

they rely on PER/WS and all this other science to determine where a player ranks

Jordan > Iversen...
All NBA players/coaches who actually are paid to play the game/analyse the game/coach the game also agree.
I'll take Barkley and Magic comments over yours.

JordansBulls
05-23-2013, 08:19 AM
Tredigs, you're such a fail at everything. Jordan is 1-10 or something in the playoffs without Pippen. What kind of GOAT can't win 2 playoff games without Pippen? I don't care who you're going up against, LeBron carried a completely scrub team to the finals. You need 12 games to reach the finals, LeBron did it. It's not a coincidence that many NBA legends believe LeBron is the best. Sorry, Jordan is overrated. His team was far superior against the teams he played against. Remember when Jordan punched Miller and Miller was ejected? NBA needed someone to carry the league because it wasn't up there in comparison to MLB and NFL. Jordan was that guy who elevated the sport and NBA did a great job covering his mishaps. I cannot call someone GOAT when they couldn't win 2 playoff games without Pippen.

In 1990 the Bulls without Pippen won game 4 on the road against Barkley's Sixers in a blowout despite Philly having a higher SRS rating than the Bulls that year.
In 1997 the Bulls won game 5 of the ECF with Pippen playing 7 minutes.

Point is is that Jordan could win without Pippen, but you aren't beating all time great teams like the '86 Celtics or '87 Celtics without having a decent cast around you.

Bulls would have still probably been 1-9 against the 85 Bucks, 86 Celtics and 87 Celtics if you added Prime Pippen to those Bulls teams. Hell the Bucks in the mid 80's swept a prime Celtics team a championship caliber team without HCA.

Pippen didn't do anything to make the Bulls successfull he came in as a role player on that team. Was coming off the bench and averaged 8 ppg and 4 rpg.

In the playoffs in 1988 that year MJ averaged 36/7/5/2/1 on 53% FG
In the playoffs in 1988 that year Pippen averaged 10/5/2/1/1 on 47% FG

In the first round that season in 1988 MJ averaged

MJ vs. Cleveland, 1988: 45 ppg/5 reb/5 ast/53% FG

Pippen vs Cleveland, 1988: 11 ppg/5 reb/2 ast/47% FG




In 1989 the two teams the Bulls upset MJ did this:

MJ vs. Cleveland, 1989: 40 pts/6 reb/8 ast/52% FG
Pippen vs Cleveland, 1989 15 pts/9 reb/4 ast/40% FG


MJ vs. NY, 1989: 37 pts/10 reb/9 ast/55% FG
Pippen vs NY, 1989: 15 pts/7 reb/5 ast/58% FG


Usually it's the youngins that bring up the "he's 1-9 without Pippen" argument because it throws away all context. MJ came to a losing franchise...not just a losing team...a losing franchise that had never won anything. The owner didn't know how to win. The GM (who left a year or two later) didn't know how to win. The coach (Kevin Loughery -- one of 3 coaches MJ had in his first 3 seasons) didn't know how to win, the fans (who averaged about 5,000 at the Stadium) didn't know how to win and the players (only one of whom had ever won a championship -- Sam Vincent, as a bench warmer on the 86 Celtics) didn't know how to win.

Tough to turn a whole ORGANIZATION around. Jordan came in producing from the start. People always bring up that Bird won 61 games his first season. That's great but although the C's had a losing record the year prior, they weren't a losing franchise. Auerbach knew what he was doing. The coaching staff knew what they were doing. And the players knew what they were doing. A little known fact -- Jordan's rookie year >> Bird's rookie year.

LB 21.3 pts, 4.5 asts, 10.4 rebs, 1.7 stls, 0.6 blks on 47 fg%
MJ 28.2 pts, 5.9 asts, 6.5 rebs, 2.4 stls, 0.8 blks on 52 fg%

Jordan produced more by a wide margin. He didn't win his first year because the ORGANIZATION wasn't ready yet.

That's a microcosm for his first few years. All this "he's 1-9 without Pippen" means nothing when he was holding it down for years as the only weapon the Bulls had offensively and defensively. How do you think Pippen and Grant had so much time to develop? He went out there and took his lumps every night even though he was severely out manned. No complaints. No threats to the front office that he wanted to be traded. Just business every night.

It took Pippen YEARS to develop into what he became. He had raw talent and work ethic, but he was soft as tissue paper in the beginning. That's why Detroit and New York made a concerted effort to attack him physically. Every year from 1988 through 1993, either the Pistons or the Knicks would come after what they thought was the weak link of the Bulls. How did he go from Charmin to steel? And how did he have so much time to develop without facing the burden of "superstar expectations"?

Because of Jordan. Jordan stood up for him against the Pistons and the Knicks. Jordan took the weight of expectations every night allowing Pippen and Grant to slide out the side door to avoid the crush of media. Jordan kept that team afloat as Scottie went from being soft to inconsistent to more consistent to probably the most versatile player in the league. If Pippen played his first few years somewhere else, he doesn't become the same player. Pippen had the talent and the work ethic, but Jordan gave him that toughness that helped the Bulls win championships.

Let's reverse the roles. Imagine if Pippen was drafted to the Bulls in 1984 and Jordan wasn't drafted until 1987. How many winning seasons would Pippen have without Jordan? Remember, he's playing against Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, Isiah's Pistons, etc. How many playoff games do they win? Let's add in the fact that Pippen would have had to deal with superstar expectations (something he struggled with as late as 1994 -- remember the sit-down incident?). Imagine soft, fragile Pippen dealing with loss after loss after loss and having to explain himself to the Chicago media after every failure. Not the 1994 All-World Pippen...I'm talking about the first few years version of Pippen. He would have folded like an armchair. By the time Jordan arrives in 1987, Pippen is on his way out either by his own desires or the team's.

By the time Pippen took over the team in 1994, he had already been through his rites of passage. Finally pushed the Pistons, Knicks, Sixers, etc back. Won 3 titles. Been to the Dream Team. That Bulls team had everyone back and added Kukoc (who btw, won game 3 against New York on a last second shot despite Pippen's "distraction". Who knows what would have happened had that game gone to overtime.) They had, for the most part, grown up together for years.

What they did was amazing but DIFFERENT than what was accomplished before. It's like MJ started a company from scratch and built it into an empire. The company is flushed with cash and has a great worldwide reputation. Jordan the CEO steps down and Pippen (his assistant) takes over and keeps the business afloat until MJ un-retires. This is a great accomplishment, but IT'S NOT THE SAME AS STARTING THE BUSINESS FROM SCRATCH. Pippen had cash, reputation, a proven "system" and he retained all the financial advisors that MJ hired to keep the business afloat. You're telling me that Pippen could have done this from the start? 1987 Pippen could have built this empire? Or did he learn the ropes from Jordan?

That's what we mean when we say Jordan helped Scott Pippen become SCOTTIE PIPPEN.

No more "Jordan was 1-9 without Pippen". It's complete Bull*****.

Jordan was playing in the 80's against stacked and loaded teams in the East. When MJ went to the Bulls the Bulls had the 2nd worst record in the league before he came. He went to an organization that was known for losing and known for not having many fans.
MJ took the team from the bottom to the top and built a dynasty.

When Pippen got the Bulls it was known as a winning franchise already and everyone on the team was in there primes.

Also when Pippen led the Bulls in 1994 the Hawks with no star player was the #1 seed.
Not to mention that Pippen was 3rd on the team in Win Shares in the playoffs in 1994 and was 3rd behind Grant in 1992 and 1993.

If you want to know, Bulls were the #1 seed in 1998 thru the first 35 games that Pippen missed during the season and this with a 35 year old leading the team.


Pippen was a 8 ppg and 4 rpg player a game as a rookie including coming off the bench and who finished 9th on the team in Win Shares PER 48 minutes, 7th in Win Shares and 7th in PER in 1988.


Jordan turned a franchise and city around. A city that averaged 6000 fans, and turned a franchise that never won anything prior to him arriving into a dynasty. Not to mention was undefeated in series with HCA at 24-0 and 14-0 against 50+ win teams. Lebron turned the Cavs around, but Wade already had provided the Heat franchise a title, so going to win with someone who got it done already as the man is never going to help his argument in a comparison with MJ. Not to mention had lost 3 years in a row with HCA and it is not like Lebron has superior stats. Jordan is #1 all time in PER in the Season and playoffs and #1 all time in WS/PER 48 minutes in the season and playoffs.

JordansBulls
05-23-2013, 08:26 AM
MJ averaged more FT's per game than LeBron has.. What are you talking about? MJ is the master of getting calls.

Lebron averages 8.6 FTA, while MJ averages 8.2 FTA

Jordan 24-0 in series with HCA, Lebron is 12-3. MJ 14-0 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and Lebron is 2-3 vs 50+ win teams (if you prorate Indiana in 2012). Jordan 2 gold medals, while Lebron has 2 bronze medals. Jordan turned a franchise that never won into a dynasty, while Lebron joined forces with a proven winner who won a title as the man. Jordan never played with a player that won league or finals mvp, while Lebron played with Shaq and Dwyane Wade. Not to mention that Jordan was never down in a series where he had HCA from the beginning of the series. He was only down 0-1 in series. Lebron was down 1-2 and 2-3 in series with HCA even while having another superstar on his team.

When Lebron takes an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving and turns them into a dynasty and wins the titles without having a guy who got it done as the man and doesn't have any bronze medals in the olympics and also is undefeated in series with HCA then we can talk.

What kind of GOAT has bronze medals with superstars on his team? What kind of guy is below .500 in series vs 50+ win teams at 1-3 while another guy is 14-0 against 50+ win teams? What kind of guy who has 2 other allstars on his team loses to a team with 1 allstar in the finals and gets outplayed by Jason Terry a guy off the bench?

Simmo
05-23-2013, 08:43 AM
oh gee, can't believe we are still debating whether Jordan is the GOAT.

it is like a religious person trying to justify that their god is better than the other 2,000!

koreancabbage
05-23-2013, 08:49 AM
i love how the posters above are actually comparing W-L records in different scenarios in a sport which is based on a team sport. what an overrated and not-useful tool to use at all.

Sandman
05-23-2013, 09:36 AM
They should have 1 on 1s or 2-2 or 3-3 round robins or something at All Star Weekend instead of the dunk contest and everything else they got going on.

Just think if it was 2 on 2 or 3 on 3, and it was up to the players to pick their own teams. That would spark rivalries and **** too it would be amazing.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 01:07 PM
i wish I knew bball talk

is it like this

with one half sentence at a time

and each sentence is a new paragraph

where the only thing to back up our comments is our word on the eye test

Lmfao!

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 01:09 PM
Tredigs, you're such a fail at everything. Jordan is 1-10 or something in the playoffs without Pippen. What kind of GOAT can't win 2 playoff games without Pippen? I don't care who you're going up against, LeBron carried a completely scrub team to the finals. You need 12 games to reach the finals, LeBron did it. It's not a coincidence that many NBA legends believe LeBron is the best. Sorry, Jordan is overrated. His team was far superior against the teams he played against. Remember when Jordan punched Miller and Miller was ejected? NBA needed someone to carry the league because it wasn't up there in comparison to MLB and NFL. Jordan was that guy who elevated the sport and NBA did a great job covering his mishaps. I cannot call someone GOAT when they couldn't win 2 playoff games without Pippen.

Lebron couldn't win a single finals game without Wade. See what I did there?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 01:12 PM
Sometimes I've gotta wonder if many of the younger bucks understand just how good Jordan was defensively. There's a lot of people who think he was the toughest defender in the league - and that's playing alongside Pippen + Rodman and against guys like David Robinson, Ewing and Hakeem.
This. These 15-20 year old kids have no clue what they're talking about. Some one even said the Lebron would stop Jordan every play while blowing past Jordan on offence :facepalm:.

if lebron joined the bucks...will all these ''heat fans'' still support the heat?
Nope. Heat fans used to be Cav fans, so they would be Buck fans next.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 01:14 PM
Lebron averages 8.6 FTA, while MJ averages 8.2 FTA

Jordan 24-0 in series with HCA, Lebron is 12-3. MJ 14-0 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and Lebron is 2-3 vs 50+ win teams (if you prorate Indiana in 2012). Jordan 2 gold medals, while Lebron has 2 bronze medals. Jordan turned a franchise that never won into a dynasty, while Lebron joined forces with a proven winner who won a title as the man. Jordan never played with a player that won league or finals mvp, while Lebron played with Shaq and Dwyane Wade. Not to mention that Jordan was never down in a series where he had HCA from the beginning of the series. He was only down 0-1 in series. Lebron was down 1-2 and 2-3 in series with HCA even while having another superstar on his team.

When Lebron takes an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving and turns them into a dynasty and wins the titles without having a guy who got it done as the man and doesn't have any bronze medals in the olympics and also is undefeated in series with HCA then we can talk.

What kind of GOAT has bronze medals with superstars on his team? What kind of guy is below .500 in series vs 50+ win teams at 1-3 while another guy is 14-0 against 50+ win teams? What kind of guy who has 2 other allstars on his team loses to a team with 1 allstar in the finals and gets outplayed by Jason Terry a guy off the bench?

What a post :clap: Everyone forgets about Lebron having two bronze medals. What a disgrace.

TheIlladelph16
05-23-2013, 01:29 PM
What a post :clap: Everyone forgets about Lebron having two bronze medals. What a disgrace.

Ah so let's just ignore his two Gold Medals as well. You are seriously pathetic.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 01:37 PM
Ah so let's just ignore his two Gold Medals as well. You are seriously pathetic.
You mean the Two Kobe had to step into for a guaranteed Gold?

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 01:39 PM
So Lebron is the GOAT?
Howcome Lebron hasnt won so far without Wade and Bosh?

Well with that logic then Jordan isn't the GOAT till he wins a Chip without Rodman/Grant and Scottie Pippen.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 01:41 PM
Ah so let's just ignore his two Gold Medals as well. You are seriously pathetic.

http://youtu.be/-J1NkZcekSc
My favorite part is 1:28

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 01:48 PM
What a post :clap: Everyone forgets about Lebron having two bronze medals. What a disgrace.

Well maybe he'd have a gold in 2004 if he played more than 13 mins a game instead of Allen "overrated" Iverson.

Also maybe if your hero Kobe wasn't busy dealing with a rape charge, and not playing for his second straight Olympics (what a competitor).

I love how these Lebron haters just try to throw things out without any context. There's a lot of reasons we didn't win in 2004 and Lebron is not one of them. Not to mention he was 20 years old.

I also like it how people just ignore how awful Lebron's teams were. Jordan would not of won a chip on those Cavs teams. He was not the one man army LBJ is. The Bulls were not one of the worst teams int he history of basketball once Jordan left. In fact they were still pretty damn good without Jordan. It's not even comparable, but all these dumb Lakers fans/Lebron Haters don't look into context...

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 01:55 PM
I swear you idiots don't even watch games. You just spew out wiki information. Were any of you old enough to even remember the Olympics? LBJ, DWade, and Carmelo Anthony were on the bench the whole damn time. Maybe you should watch games before you have dumb comments about them.

TheIlladelph16
05-23-2013, 01:56 PM
You mean the Two Kobe had to step into for a guaranteed Gold?

You mean the gold medals when Lebron played better:confused: Bc he played better in both Olympics.

You said it was a disgrace that Lebron has 2 Bronze medals. Well one that's simply ****ing stupid because he not only has 2 bronze medals, but he also has 2 Gold.

Kobe only has 3 rings.... what a disgrace. (see what I did there? I ignored things that actually happened to make an ultimately stupid point). PS: I'm not Amoser so I won't find your Youtube videos to be valid proof of anything other than a basketball game occurred.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 01:56 PM
Well maybe he'd have a gold in 2004 if he played more than 13 mins a game instead of Allen "overrated" Iverson.

Also maybe if your hero Kobe wasn't busy dealing with a rape charge, and not playing for his second straight Olympics (what a competitor).

I love how these Lebron haters just try to throw things out without any context. There's a lot of reasons we didn't win in 2004 and Lebron is not one of them. Not to mention he was 20 years old.

I also like it how people just ignore how awful Lebron's teams were. Jordan would not of won a chip on those Cavs teams. He was not the one man army LBJ is. The Bulls were not one of the worst teams int he history of basketball once Jordan left. In fact they were still pretty damn good without Jordan. It's not even comparable, but all these dumb Lakers fans/Lebron Haters don't look into context...

Don't forget about his second bronze. How does one lose vs terrible Euro competition two times in a row. Kobe/Jordan would never let that happen.

Kobe had problems in 2004, but when he had to get it done in 08, he did so in stunning fashion. Kobe saved us vs spain.

The Heat without Lebron right now are still in the running to get out of the east, so your point is invalid.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 02:00 PM
You mean the last gold medal when Lebron played better:confused:

You said it was a disgrace that Lebron has 2 Bronze medals. Well one that's simply ****ing stupid because he not only has 2 bronze medals, but he also has 2 Gold.

Kobe only has 3 rings.... what a disgrace. (see what I did there? I ignored things that actually happened to make an ultimately stupid point). PS: I'm not Amoser so I won't find your Youtube videos to be valid proof of anything other than a basketball game occurred.

That's beacause Kobe cruised it until the final showdown. If Kobe was absent from that game Spain wins gold, and Lebron is stuck with two bronze medals and a silver.

You're right Lebron does have two gold medals, but he could only get them with Kobe/Durant on the team. Coincidence? I think not.

The goods
05-23-2013, 02:07 PM
Last I checked basketball was 5 on 5 who cares about 1 on 1?

What makes LeBron so great isn't his isolation games, its his passing, and getting everyone involved a lot like Magic.

TheIlladelph16
05-23-2013, 02:08 PM
That's beacause Kobe cruised it until the final showdown. If Kobe was absent from that game Spain wins gold, and Lebron is stuck with two bronze medals and a silver.

You're right Lebron does have two gold medals, but he could only get them with Kobe/Durant on the team. Coincidence? I think not.

Kobe could only get a gold medal with Lebron/Durant on the team. Coincidence? Nah not at all.

Why would I praise a guy for coasting the entire Olympics only to try hard in one game? Idk about you, but I like my favorite players to actually, ya know, give a ****.

Chronz
05-23-2013, 02:09 PM
That's beacause Kobe cruised it until the final showdown. If Kobe was absent from that game Spain wins gold, and Lebron is stuck with two bronze medals and a silver.

You're right Lebron does have two gold medals, but he could only get them with Kobe/Durant on the team. Coincidence? I think not.

So where does Duncan's Bronze fit into all this? Is Durant > Duncan because hes always tasted gold?

Can Vince Carter and KG get some recognition for their Gold here?

Why does MJ get a pass for playing against competition that was looking to get their autographs rather than make a statement?

TheLegend
05-23-2013, 02:15 PM
Check the vids I posted and then put the meth/acid/molly and whatever new invented caveman drug that's out there down and never do'em again

by a landslide, child please

JORDAN was just taller/bigger player

IVERSON could do whatever he wanted on the court, he had better skill coming out so how would he not end with better skill?

why do people get so offensive when its so obvious, game film don't lie

Ok, well why doesn't Iverson resume compare to Jordan's??? Iverson has zero titles. I'm confident you can put Jordan on any team or organization coming out of college and he's going to win at least two titles. You trying to compare a guy that doesn't compare, and in the process look like a complete dummy doing so. Sometimes you are better off not posting. this is no debate, CLEARLY. You are referring to you tube videos for knowledge and you think u watched Jordan play because of some vids u seen. lol

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 02:15 PM
Don't forget about his second bronze. How does one lose vs terrible Euro competition two times in a row. Kobe/Jordan would never let that happen.

Kobe had problems in 2004, but when he had to get it done in 08, he did so in stunning fashion. Kobe saved us vs spain.

The Heat without Lebron right now are still in the running to get out of the east, so your point is invalid.

Yeah Kobe had problems. He was busy getting the only stat he'll ever beat LBJ in. Rape charges.

Where was he in 2000? Where was Shaq? There were like 5-10 players that year that didn't even do the Olympics.

You're right the Heat are a very good team, and they would be good without Lebron. Just like the Bulls were a really good team, and were still good without Jordan. Both teams weren't even close to as good without them.

You also forget that Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant both had one of the greatest basketball coaches in NBA history. Of course this is all LBJ's fault in your mind. It's his fault he didn't play minutes on a ****** Olympics team. It's his fault the best players in America were too big headed to play for their country. It's his fault he never had a great coach in the NBA. It's his fault that he didn't have a team that was able to draft Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen in the same round. It's his fault that he didn't get drafted by a top market where free agents would want to go.

You realize Kobe would of been off the Cavs instantly if he was there? **** 2 bad years in LA (that were literally his fault) and he was demanding a trade from one of the best franchises in sports history... This doesn't go through your brain though. In your mind LBJ is an ******* for doing the same thing Kobe tried and failed at doing. The only difference is LBJ didn't blow up the team before he left. He was the team, and he left.

LBJ doesn't miss the playoffs though. He gave Cleveland all he had in those years, and the best players they could get for him was Fat Shaq, and a guy who reportedly boned his mom...

It's just never ending stupidity, and like always you Lakers fans are the ring leaders...

Jayrich28
05-23-2013, 02:25 PM
Well with that logic then Jordan isn't the GOAT till he wins a Chip without Rodman/Grant and Scottie Pippen.

Well there is alot wrong with that statement. Jordan was a bull before those guys existed. Second grant and pippen were drafted and mike waited for those guys to develop to help him win even if it ment losing a few more times to boston or detroit to get there. The difference btw him and lbj mike was patient and overcame while lebron gave up after a few loses and skip town (totally understandable) but his chance at being truely better was going to another mvps team and winner to chase rings. The one thing about that it gives youth a bad example that when things get tough you get the hell out of dodge. these guys now want everything the easy way.

dalton749
05-23-2013, 02:27 PM
watch these: micheal jordan; the mythical creature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

ROY 2 MVP Braun
05-23-2013, 02:34 PM
For years, you've been told how great MJ is and never shown his flaws. Just for take the time to watch these please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmlfiMDUTQ4

i stopped watching after "stern helped jordan" haha sterns pants get wet when lebrons names mentioned

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 02:34 PM
Well there is alot wrong with that statement. Jordan was a bull before those guys existed. Second grant and pippen were drafted and mike waited for those guys to develop to help him win even if it ment losing a few more times to boston or detroit to get there. The difference btw him and lbj mike was patient and overcame while lebron gave up after a few loses and skip town (totally understandable) but his chance at being truely better was going to another mvps team and winner to chase rings. The one thing about that it gives youth a bad example that when things get tough you get the hell out of dodge. these guys now want everything the easy way.

This is just dumb.

Who the hell was LBJ suppose to wait to develop? They just surrounded him with a bunch of garbage/old/bad players. They had bad drafts. It's not even that they weren't able to draft allstars. They failed at drafting even mediocre role players.

Plus this is the disadvantage that today's small markets have. It's hard to have a franchise when you can't sign top tier free agents, and you have dumb *** people making stupid decision in your front office. You have to strike gold like OKC did, or you're screwed.

mngopher35
05-23-2013, 02:36 PM
Well there is alot wrong with that statement. Jordan was a bull before those guys existed. Second grant and pippen were drafted and mike waited for those guys to develop to help him win even if it ment losing a few more times to boston or detroit to get there. The difference btw him and lbj mike was patient and overcame while lebron gave up after a few loses and skip town (totally understandable) but his chance at being truely better was going to another mvps team and winner to chase rings. The one thing about that it gives youth a bad example that when things get tough you get the hell out of dodge. these guys now want everything the easy way.

I'm sorry but there is just no comparison, yours is just as wrong as his. You say Mike was patient and waited for them to develop but who could Lebron have waited for? There was nothing like that with the Cavs, they were over the cap with not much talent.

Pippen and Grant were on the team his 4th year in the league, and they won a title his 7th. Lebron gave the Cavs 7 years to find him help and the best they could offer was Mo williams. So by year 5 or 6 with the Bulls Jordan knew there was something there at least and in his 7th year they lost 2 games total in the playoffs (mostly due to jordan of course, but still had help finally). That is just completely different than what that Cleveland team was like. There really isn't a comparison in the two situations at all, unless you think Mo Williams is similar to Pippen somehow.

dalton749
05-23-2013, 02:37 PM
This is just dumb.

Who the hell was LBJ suppose to wait to develop? They just surrounded him with a bunch of garbage/old/bad players. They had bad drafts. It's not even that they weren't able to draft allstars. They failed at drafting even mediocre role players.

Plus this is the disadvantage that today's small markets have. It's hard to have a franchise when you can't sign top tier free agents, and you have dumb *** people making stupid decision in your front office. You have to strike gold like OKC did, or you're screwed.

lol i was about to compare the okc situation to what he said.
would kd leave okc because he has to wait for them to develop? no, neither would jordan

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 02:42 PM
Kobe could only get a gold medal with Lebron/Durant on the team. Coincidence? Nah not at all.

Why would I praise a guy for coasting the entire Olympics only to try hard in one game? Idk about you, but I like my favorite players to actually, ya know, give a ****.

Oh he gave a **** alright. He won us a gold for "giving a ****". Watch that video I posted.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 02:47 PM
So where does Duncan's Bronze fit into all this? Is Durant > Duncan because hes always tasted gold?

Can Vince Carter and KG get some recognition for their Gold here?

Why does MJ get a pass for playing against competition that was looking to get their autographs rather than make a statement?

I do hold Duncan responsible for the Bronze as well, everyone on that team gets a nick on their career accomplishments in my book.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 02:48 PM
Oh he gave a **** alright. He won us a gold for "giving a ****". Watch that video I posted.

No one wants to watch your dumb video. We all watched the actually Olympics. We don't look at 3 min clips to determine how good a player is. Would you like for me to make a video of Kobe Air balls and bricks? Because that video would be 10 hours long.

Gotta love most missed shots in the history of the NBA.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 02:52 PM
I do hold Duncan responsible for the Bronze as well, everyone on that team gets a nick on their career accomplishments in my book.

And Kobe gets a pass because he was busy fighting a rape case? Rape=Ok. Bronze Medals=Bad.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 02:52 PM
Yeah Kobe had problems. He was busy getting the only stat he'll ever beat LBJ in. Rape charges.

Where was he in 2000? Where was Shaq? There were like 5-10 players that year that didn't even do the Olympics.

You're right the Heat are a very good team, and they would be good without Lebron. Just like the Bulls were a really good team, and were still good without Jordan. Both teams weren't even close to as good without them.

You also forget that Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant both had one of the greatest basketball coaches in NBA history. Of course this is all LBJ's fault in your mind. It's his fault he didn't play minutes on a ****** Olympics team. It's his fault the best players in America were too big headed to play for their country. It's his fault he never had a great coach in the NBA. It's his fault that he didn't have a team that was able to draft Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen in the same round. It's his fault that he didn't get drafted by a top market where free agents would want to go.

You realize Kobe would of been off the Cavs instantly if he was there? **** 2 bad years in LA (that were literally his fault) and he was demanding a trade from one of the best franchises in sports history... This doesn't go through your brain though. In your mind LBJ is an ******* for doing the same thing Kobe tried and failed at doing. The only difference is LBJ didn't blow up the team before he left. He was the team, and he left.

LBJ doesn't miss the playoffs though. He gave Cleveland all he had in those years, and the best players they could get for him was Fat Shaq, and a guy who reportedly boned his mom...

It's just never ending stupidity, and like always you Lakers fans are the ring leaders...

What a terrible ramble of nothing.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 02:54 PM
What a terrible ramble of nothing.

It's for intelligent people. Sorry, if I wasn't so lazy I'd make a pop up book version for you and the rest of Laker nation.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 02:55 PM
And Kobe gets a pass because he was busy fighting a rape case? Rape=Ok. Bronze Medals=Bad.

Only you and a few other clowns think Kobe Bryant a world class superstar would have to rape some **** because he's unable to get girls on his won. Get your head out of your ***.

ghettosean
05-23-2013, 02:57 PM
So where does Duncan's Bronze fit into all this? Is Durant > Duncan because hes always tasted gold?Can Vince Carter and KG get some recognition for their Gold here?

Why does MJ get a pass for playing against competition that was looking to get their autographs rather than make a statement?

(for the bolded) Maybe his career is just starting so who knows....

As for MJ not sure if they were lining up for MJ's autograph in 84 when he won gold at a Young age of 21 though he was the leading scorer of that gold medal game and the leader of the squad so maybe afterwards ;)

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 02:57 PM
Only you and a few other clowns think Kobe Bryant a world class superstar would have to rape some **** because he's unable to get girls on his won. Get your head out of your ***.

I think Kobe has the personality of a bath mat, so yes it's very possible.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 02:59 PM
(for the bolded) Maybe his career is just starting so who knows....

As for MJ not sure if they were lining up for MJ's autograph in 84 when he won gold at a Young age of 21 though he was the leading scorer of that gold medal game and the leader of the squad so maybe afterwards ;)

The level of competition in basketball back then isn't even comparable to what it is now. Jordan, Barkley, and all those guys from the dream team are the reason we have so many international players now.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 03:02 PM
No one wants to watch your dumb video. We all watched the actually Olympics. We don't look at 3 min clips to determine how good a player is. Would you like for me to make a video of Kobe Air balls and bricks? Because that video would be 10 hours long.

Gotta love most missed shots in the history of the NBA.

How was the Final game won then? Keep reaching in your bag of empty tricks.

ghettosean
05-23-2013, 03:14 PM
The level of competition in basketball back then isn't even comparable to what it is now. Jordan, Barkley, and all those guys from the dream team are the reason we have so many international players now.

Barkley wasn't on the team in 84...

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 03:16 PM
For the record. U.S. Vs Spain

Kobe 5-10 17 pts 2 steals 2 assists 1 block 2 Reb
Lebron 8-13 19 pts 1 steal 4 assists 2 blocks 7 Reb

Lebron had a very obvious better olympics as well. He was by far the best player on that team, and any non Lakers fan that watched the olympics. Also he was able to be a leader on a team full of Alpha's. That Olympics proves LBJ's greatness a lot more than Kobe's. I hate to break it to you.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 03:22 PM
Barkley wasn't on the team in 84...

The dream team wasn't in 84.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 03:29 PM
For the record. U.S. Vs Spain

Kobe 5-10 17 pts 2 steals 2 assists 1 block 2 Reb
Lebron 8-13 19 pts 1 steal 4 assists 2 blocks 7 Reb

Lebron had a very obvious better olympics as well. He was by far the best player on that team, and any non Lakers fan that watched the olympics. Also he was able to be a leader on a team full of Alpha's. That Olympics proves LBJ's greatness a lot more than Kobe's. I hate to break it to you.

IDK what game you're talking about kid. In the gold game, Wade and Kobe Carried team USA. Kobe put the game away.

TheIlladelph16
05-23-2013, 03:32 PM
Oh he gave a **** alright. He won us a gold for "giving a ****". Watch that video I posted.

I'm well aware of what he did as I watched the game. In your own words, he cruised until the final game. That is not a player who gives a ****. I'll take the guy who busted his *** game in and game out, over the guy who gets to pick and choose when he shows up to play. Lebron was better over the course of both Olympics they played in together.

Your logic is astoundingly terrible. Also, yet again: Youtube videos are proof of nothing. Give me stats to backup your opinion to go along with the video if you want to be taken seriously.

ghettosean
05-23-2013, 03:46 PM
(for the bolded) Maybe his career is just starting so who knows....

As for MJ not sure if they were lining up for MJ's autograph in 84 when he won gold at a Young age of 21 though he was the leading scorer of that gold medal game and the leader of the squad so maybe afterwards ;)




The level of competition in basketball back then isn't even comparable to what it is now. Jordan, Barkley, and all those guys from the dream team are the reason we have so many international players now.



Barkley wasn't on the team in 84...




The dream team wasn't in 84.



The dream team wasn't in 84.

:facepalm:

Jordan won his 1st gold in 84 in the olympics... I clearly said this in the post you responded too

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 04:20 PM
:facepalm:

Jordan won his 1st gold in 84 in the olympics... I clearly said this in the post you responded too

I said that the dream team era raised the level of basketball internationally, and guys like Barkley and Jordan are the reason international basketball is so much better now.

I don't know wtf you're arguing with me about, but you should learn to read.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 04:21 PM
I'm well aware of what he did as I watched the game. In your own words, he cruised until the final game. That is not a player who gives a ****. I'll take the guy who busted his *** game in and game out, over the guy who gets to pick and choose when he shows up to play. Lebron was better over the course of both Olympics they played in together.

Your logic is astoundingly terrible. Also, yet again: Youtube videos are proof of nothing. Give me stats to backup your opinion to go along with the video if you want to be taken seriously.

Kobe didn't need to be in sprint mode. When **** got real in the gold game, Kobe took over, not your god Bron. Kobe was still the best player in the world at that time.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 04:24 PM
IDK what game you're talking about kid. In the gold game, Wade and Kobe Carried team USA. Kobe put the game away.

That's because you don't live in what I like to call reality.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 04:26 PM
Kobe didn't need to be in sprint mode. When **** got real in the gold game, Kobe took over, not your god Bron. Kobe was still the best player in the world at that time.

I'll reword this for you illadelphia.

"I have no stats to back up my arguments only highlight videos. My entire knowledge from basketball comes from watching youtube and I have no idea what I'm talking about". -Illusionist248

No Kobe wasn't. Literally at no point was Kobe the guaranteed "best in the world". Especially after this Olympics where Coach K called LBJ the best player he ever coached (which Coach K coached Jordan and Kobe). Your talking about right after Miami's Championship, and during the Olympics wher LEBRON not Kobe was the talk of the town. You literally are completely wrong. You live in your Laker bubble. No one. Literally no one with a brain considered Kobe the best player in the world at this time. NO ONE BUT YOU AND OTHER DUMB LAKER FANS.

tredigs
05-23-2013, 04:40 PM
I'll reword this for you illadelphia.

"I have no stats to back up my arguments only highlight videos. My entire knowledge from basketball comes from watching youtube and I have no idea what I'm talking about". -Illusionist248

No Kobe wasn't. Literally at no point was Kobe the guaranteed "best in the world". Especially after this Olympics where Coach K called LBJ the best player he ever coached (which Coach K coached Jordan and Kobe). Your talking about right after Miami's Championship, and during the Olympics wher LEBRON not Kobe was the talk of the town. You literally are completely wrong. You live in your Laker bubble. No one. Literally no one with a brain considered Kobe the best player in the world at this time. NO ONE BUT YOU AND OTHER DUMB LAKER FANS.
???

Coach K definitely never said that about Lebron. He said he was "the most unique player ever" and that he was Team USA's best player in the 2012 run (that yeah, Kobe was on, but the real debate between the two was in '08).

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 04:44 PM
???

Coach K definitely never said that about Lebron. He said he was "the most unique player ever" and that he was Team USA's best player in the 2012 run (that yeah, Kobe was on, but the real debate between the two was in '08).

He actually said he was the best player now. Either way I was wrong, but you get the point.

ghettosean
05-23-2013, 04:46 PM
I said that the dream team era raised the level of basketball internationally, and guys like Barkley and Jordan are the reason international basketball is so much better now.

I don't know wtf you're arguing with me about, but you should learn to read.

:facepalm:

What you wrote is there for all to see in your response to my post it's quoted but whatever...

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 04:49 PM
:facepalm:

What you wrote is there for all to see in your response to my post it's quoted but whatever...

Is that you hiding your face because you look like a dumb ***?

TheIlladelph16
05-23-2013, 04:49 PM
I'll reword this for you illadelphia.

"I have no stats to back up my arguments only highlight videos. My entire knowledge from basketball comes from watching youtube and I have no idea what I'm talking about". -Illusionist248


Bingo.

ghettosean
05-23-2013, 04:55 PM
Is that you hiding your face because you look like a dumb ***?

Nope it's me feeling bad for you but if putting me down to make yourself sound like a big man and feel good about yourself have at it... LOL... Cause your a very special person.... :laugh:

Again your post is there for all to see ;) One page back.

Try and get one last saucey remark in before the day is out you special little guy.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 05:19 PM
Nope it's me feeling bad for you but if putting me down to make yourself sound like a big man and feel good about yourself have at it... LOL... Cause your a very special person.... :laugh:

Again your post is there for all to see ;) One page back.

Try and get one last saucey remark in before the day is out you special little guy.

lol. Ztilzer is a terrible poster. Don't worry about that guy.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 05:59 PM
lol. Ztilzer is a terrible poster. Don't worry about that guy.

Sorry for constantly proving you wrong, and dumb. This is like the 4th time this week you said something completely ********, and got destroyed in an argument with someone because you lack facts.

This is the Lakers fans strat in arguing against LBJ.

1. Challenge his accolades.
2. Once he gets an accolade it doesn't count because he didn't do it on the team that drafted him.
3. Show Kobe making an incredibly difficult shot (normally after 4 or 5 bricks you happen not to post).

Look at your posts man. You don't have one good rebuttal towards any of my arguments and I have completely rebuffed everything you've said.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 06:17 PM
Nope it's me feeling bad for you but if putting me down to make yourself sound like a big man and feel good about yourself have at it... LOL... Cause your a very special person.... :laugh:

Again your post is there for all to see ;) One page back.

Try and get one last saucey remark in before the day is out you special little guy.

I read the post.

This is what happened... You mentioned the 84 Olympics. I said the level of competition of international basketball has increased substantially ever since the dream team with Barkley and Jordan.

Point being international teams are 10x better now then they were in Jordan's era.

Now do you see why you face palming like I'm the idiot is kind of ridiculous when you clearly have no idea what my point was, and I apparently have to spell it out for you.

amos1er
05-23-2013, 06:25 PM
:facepalm:

What you wrote is there for all to see in your response to my post it's quoted but whatever...

Ya, I quoted one of his foolish statements in my sig for a few months. He leaves some real gems behind sometimes whenever he tries to convey a thought about his mancrush for Lebron. All you can really do is laugh.

amos1er
05-23-2013, 06:27 PM
Sorry for constantly proving you wrong, and dumb. This is like the 4th time this week you said something completely ********, and got destroyed in an argument with someone because you lack facts.

This is the Lakers fans strat in arguing against LBJ.

1. Challenge his accolades.
2. Once he gets an accolade it doesn't count because he didn't do it on the team that drafted him.
3. Show Kobe making an incredibly difficult shot (normally after 4 or 5 bricks you happen not to post).

Look at your posts man. You don't have one good rebuttal towards any of my arguments and I have completely rebuffed everything you've said.

Lulz...Not really...all I see you do is state the same crap over and over again no matter what valid points anyone brings up.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 06:27 PM
Ya, I quoted one of his foolish statements in my sig for a few months. He leaves some real gems behind sometimes whenever he tries to convey a thought about his mancrush for Lebron. All you can really do is laugh.

Yes your sig that accused Lebron of using steroids because you're ridiculously desperate to make Kobe look better than LBJ in any way possible.

For the record I hate Lakers fans more than I like LBJ. Would you like to add to the actual argument I can beat 2 dumb Lakers fans at the same time...

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 06:29 PM
Lulz...Not really...all I see you do is state the same crap over and over again no matter what valid points anyone brings up.

How bout you argue my valid points instead of just coming in talking **** with nothing important to say?

amos1er
05-23-2013, 06:44 PM
How bout you argue my valid points instead of just coming in talking **** with nothing important to say?

Kobe was the MVP of team USA in the Gold medal game. Thats really not debatable. Even Tredigs put your little misquote from coach K to rest. Your only argument is Lebron padding his stats against completely inferior teams that would likely not even be able to win 5 games in an NBA season. No one is impressed when an NBA player goes overseas and puts up monster numbers against significantly weaker opponents. So why are you so impressed when Lebron did it so the scrub Olympic teams of 2008? When team USA faced their toughest competition in their darkest hour, coach K turned to the Mamba and he got the job done. With some help from D-Wade of course...want to give credit where it was due.

I believe coach K said that he needed to unleash the mamba if I remember correctly.

amos1er
05-23-2013, 06:44 PM
Yes your sig that accused Lebron of using steroids because you're ridiculously desperate to make Kobe look better than LBJ in any way possible.

For the record I hate Lakers fans more than I like LBJ. Would you like to add to the actual argument I can beat 2 dumb Lakers fans at the same time...

You don't say. :rolleyes:

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 06:58 PM
Kobe was the MVP of team USA in the Gold medal game. Thats really not debatable. Even Tredigs put your little misquote from coach K to rest. Your only argument is Lebron padding his stats against completely inferior teams that would likely not even be able to win 5 games in an NBA season. No one is impressed when an NBA player goes overseas and puts up monster numbers against significantly weaker opponents. So why are you so impressed when Lebron did it so the scrub Olympic teams of 2008? When team USA faced their toughest competition in their darkest hour, coach K turned to the Mamba and he got the job done. With some help from D-Wade of course...want to give credit where it was due.

I believe coach K said that he needed to unleash the mamba if I remember correctly.

Yeah he said that because he'd been playing like ****. Sure Kobe turned it on for one game. While LBJ played consistently great throughout the entire Olympics like he always does.

amos1er
05-23-2013, 07:00 PM
Yeah he said that because he'd been playing like ****. Sure Kobe turned it on for one game. While LBJ played consistently great throughout the entire Olympics like he always does.

Ya, Lebron did play consistently great throughout the entire Olympics...against high school level competition.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-23-2013, 08:22 PM
Sorry for constantly proving you wrong, and dumb. This is like the 4th time this week you said something completely ********, and got destroyed in an argument with someone because you lack facts.

This is the Lakers fans strat in arguing against LBJ.

1. Challenge his accolades.
2. Once he gets an accolade it doesn't count because he didn't do it on the team that drafted him.
3. Show Kobe making an incredibly difficult shot (normally after 4 or 5 bricks you happen not to post).

Look at your posts man. You don't have one good rebuttal towards any of my arguments and I have completely rebuffed everything you've said.

What arguments? It's like talking to a 12 year old about basketball. You're in the bottom 10 poster list for a reason.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 08:35 PM
What arguments? It's like talking to a 12 year old about basketball. You're in the bottom 10 poster list for a reason.

Blah blah blah. You have nothing factual to say. Just give up man. Now you're just throwing insults because you don't know what to do. Because you just got ****in spanked in this argument. Go back to your Laker bubble where you belong. Where Kobe is the best player in the NBA.

3RDASYSTEM
05-23-2013, 08:53 PM
Blah blah blah. You have nothing factual to say. Just give up man. Now you're just throwing insults because you don't know what to do. Because you just got ****in spanked in this argument. Go back to your Laker bubble where you belong. Where Kobe is the best player in the NBA.

Same thing I said about him and others on here

everytime I post a quote of substance its like they all get shell shocked

im thinking to myself how can you have a solid debate or trade dialogue and its a '2 word reply' or 3 letter reply

and then they got the balls to call someone a 12 yr old

had BRON been drafted by a 55-60win team and rode the bench for 3yrs I wouldn't look at BRON as the same player I have him now

he's way too good

BEAN was backing up JONES on LA but starting on the WEST allstar team and dummies and fiens go crazy everytime they see him make a allnba 1st, he's been overranked since his inception, congrats laker nation

talk about overkill overhype

3RDASYSTEM
05-23-2013, 09:00 PM
Yeah Kobe had problems. He was busy getting the only stat he'll ever beat LBJ in. Rape charges.

Where was he in 2000? Where was Shaq? There were like 5-10 players that year that didn't even do the Olympics.

You're right the Heat are a very good team, and they would be good without Lebron. Just like the Bulls were a really good team, and were still good without Jordan. Both teams weren't even close to as good without them.

You also forget that Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant both had one of the greatest basketball coaches in NBA history. Of course this is all LBJ's fault in your mind. It's his fault he didn't play minutes on a ****** Olympics team. It's his fault the best players in America were too big headed to play for their country. It's his fault he never had a great coach in the NBA. It's his fault that he didn't have a team that was able to draft Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen in the same round. It's his fault that he didn't get drafted by a top market where free agents would want to go.

You realize Kobe would of been off the Cavs instantly if he was there? **** 2 bad years in LA (that were literally his fault) and he was demanding a trade from one of the best franchises in sports history... This doesn't go through your brain though. In your mind LBJ is an ******* for doing the same thing Kobe tried and failed at doing. The only difference is LBJ didn't blow up the team before he left. He was the team, and he left.

LBJ doesn't miss the playoffs though. He gave Cleveland all he had in those years, and the best players they could get for him was Fat Shaq, and a guy who reportedly boned his mom...

It's just never ending stupidity, and like always you Lakers fans are the ring leaders...


I riddle this to the BEAN fiens all the time on why he wanted out and why he was a backup guard

they can never reply but they always reply to the rape ****

talk about overranked, JETER of the nba, book it

3RDASYSTEM
05-23-2013, 09:03 PM
This. These 15-20 year old kids have no clue what they're talking about. Some one even said the Lebron would stop Jordan every play while blowing past Jordan on offence :facepalm:.

Nope. Heat fans used to be Cav fans, so they would be Buck fans next.

Well I know for a fact BRON can or has a chance against any G/F 1 on 1, and I listed other players who would give JORDAN a run for his money and beat him if they played best of 10 or 20 over a stretched out period

basing it off how you fiens look at JORDAN then RUSS would never lose 1 on 1, 11 rings in 13yrs trumps 6 out of 15yrs

3RDASYSTEM
05-23-2013, 09:05 PM
What arguments? It's like talking to a 12 year old about basketball. You're in the bottom 10 poster list for a reason.


Its no arguing what actually happened

what I said about BEAN happened

whats there to argue?

Riodagoat
05-23-2013, 09:29 PM
So when Lebron plays great in the Olympics, the competition is considered junior HS team but when it's Kobe that plays good against the same team, all of a sudden he's the greatest player in the history of the NBA.

And people wonder why Laker fans are one of the most hated fanbase in this sport.

Chronz
05-23-2013, 09:36 PM
I do hold Duncan responsible for the Bronze as well, everyone on that team gets a nick on their career accomplishments in my book.
A nick sounds about right, kind of like how Kobe takes a nick for those 3 air balls as a teen. One of those, who gives a **** moments right....

Its not as if KG is actually better than Duncan because he has a gold Medal to Duncans Bronze.... amirite?

Serious question, would Kobe and no Duncan would have changed the outcome?

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 10:13 PM
So when Lebron plays great in the Olympics, the competition is considered junior HS team but when it's Kobe that plays good against the same team, all of a sudden he's the greatest player in the history of the NBA.

And people wonder why Laker fans are one of the most hated fanbase in this sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg8jHuad-_0

Go to about 2 mins in and listen it's hilarious at about 4 mins it calls the Lakers the dumbest fans in sports... He's completely right.

NJrockPD
05-23-2013, 10:30 PM
Tredigs, you're such a fail at everything. Jordan is 1-10 or something in the playoffs without Pippen. What kind of GOAT can't win 2 playoff games without Pippen? I don't care who you're going up against, LeBron carried a completely scrub team to the finals. You need 12 games to reach the finals, LeBron did it. It's not a coincidence that many NBA legends believe LeBron is the best. Sorry, Jordan is overrated. His team was far superior against the teams he played against. Remember when Jordan punched Miller and Miller was ejected? NBA needed someone to carry the league because it wasn't up there in comparison to MLB and NFL. Jordan was that guy who elevated the sport and NBA did a great job covering his mishaps. I cannot call someone GOAT when they couldn't win 2 playoff games without Pippen.

It must be fun to be 12 years old and think you know everything about basketball.

whitemamba33
05-23-2013, 11:38 PM
lol. I bet my buddy $5 that if I clicked on the last page of this thread there would be somebody hating on Kobe in it.

"It's LBJ and Jordan, nobody is talking about Kobe" he said.

"The world doesn't revolve around Kobe", he continued.

Then I clicked.

Thank you guys. Obviously it's pretty pathetic that this turned into a Kobe-hate thread, but at least the PSD forums are predictably horrible enough that I can safely bet on them.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 11:49 PM
lol. I bet my buddy $5 that if I clicked on the last page of this thread there would be somebody hating on Kobe in it.

"It's LBJ and Jordan, nobody is talking about Kobe" he said.

"The world doesn't revolve around Kobe", he continued.

Then I clicked.

Thank you guys. Obviously it's pretty pathetic that this turned into a Kobe-hate thread, but at least the PSD forums are predictably horrible enough that I can safely bet on them.

Hmm I wonder who turned the conversation towards Kobe.. Could you take a guess?

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 11:49 PM
You mean the Two Kobe had to step into for a guaranteed Gold?

HMM crazy. One of the same 3 people it always is.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 11:50 PM
It must be fun to be 12 years old and think you know everything about basketball.

It must be fun to not know anything about basketball and post dumb troll comments like this.

ztilzer31
05-23-2013, 11:53 PM
Crazy an MJ Vs LBJ argument and a bunch of dumb Laker fans chime in their Kobe argument. It's really just sad. It must tear you up inside that only Lakers fans think Kobe is in the league of Jordan, and LBJ.

whitemamba33
05-23-2013, 11:54 PM
Hmm I wonder who turned the conversation towards Kobe.. Could you take a guess?

Don't really care who did. Somebody did, and other people were dumb enough to buy into it.

Anyways, i'm happy. Thank you guys for being you.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-24-2013, 11:29 AM
A nick sounds about right, kind of like how Kobe takes a nick for those 3 air balls as a teen. One of those, who gives a **** moments right....

Its not as if KG is actually better than Duncan because he has a gold Medal to Duncans Bronze.... amirite?

Serious question, would Kobe and no Duncan would have changed the outcome?

You're talking about of your *** dude.

So losing in the Olympics is irrelevant?

Idk Maybe, if Kobe played with an all star team vs weak comp, I don't see how he wouldn't make a difference?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-24-2013, 11:32 AM
It must be fun to be 12 years old and think you know everything about basketball.

He and Ztilzer both.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-24-2013, 11:32 AM
Crazy an MJ Vs LBJ argument and a bunch of dumb Laker fans chime in their Kobe argument. It's really just sad. It must tear you up inside that only Lakers fans think Kobe is in the league of Jordan, and LBJ.

How dare you put the name Lebron and Jordan in the same sentence. Jordan was light years above Lebron.

ztilzer31
05-24-2013, 12:03 PM
How dare you put the name Lebron and Jordan in the same sentence. Jordan was light years above Lebron.

No he wasn't, and you wouldn't know because you didn't ever watch him play.

Chronz
05-24-2013, 02:20 PM
You're talking about of your *** dude.
So thats what agreeing with you feels like?


So losing in the Olympics is irrelevant?
Show me where I said that strawman, god you suck at debating. LOL do you even know the definition of the word nick? Its like a ding. Dings arent irrelevant, but they are minor details.



Idk Maybe,
Good to see you admit to not knowing, a minute ago you were speaking with much more conviction. Its sad that you dont know how much of a team game basketball is.


if Kobe played with an all star team vs weak comp, I don't see how he wouldn't make a difference?
Of course you cant envision it, you're focused on names and not games, how they mesh and such. Rule number 1, its about the sum of the parts more than the collection of All-Star selections.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-24-2013, 02:56 PM
So thats what agreeing with you feels like?


Show me where I said that strawman, god you suck at debating. LOL do you even know the definition of the word nick? Its like a ding. Dings arent irrelevant, but they are minor details.



Good to see you admit to not knowing, a minute ago you were speaking with much more conviction. Its sad that you dont know how much of a team game basketball is.


Of course you cant envision it, you're focused on names and not games, how they mesh and such. Rule number 1, its about the sum of the parts more than the collection of All-Star selections.

You're trying to compare an air ball to losing in the Olympics. How stupid do you sound.

Yes its a "NICK" a "small dent" into their career accomplishments. Get it now? Anything less than a gold in Olympic basketball is a failure.

IMO Kobe would have been the difference. I just don't see him losing to a college level team. No one took control of that team as the leader, their fault. I hardly doubt Kobe wouldn't at least try.

nastynice
05-24-2013, 03:05 PM
I think lebron wade and bosh all taking paycuts to play with each other makes it kinda hard to compare the two. I mean, what would jordan play like if he had hakeem and magic with him? Its hard to say. Lebron either goes from a severly more crappy team to jordans bulls (cavs), or a severly more stacked team (heat) than his bulls. It makes it hard to really compare them across the board.

Chronz
05-24-2013, 03:15 PM
You're trying to compare an air ball to losing in the Olympics. How stupid do you sound.
Apparently enough to get you into flame mode, which didn't take long. And Im comparing the historical significance of it, yes. Its a minor detail because nobody would dare blame Duncan for that Bronze same way no one would say **** about Kobe's air balls.


Yes its a "NICK" a "small dent" into their career accomplishments. Get it now? Anything less than a gold in Olympic basketball is a failure.
What makes you think I didn't get it when my last post says:

do you even know the definition of the word nick? Its like a ding. Dings arent irrelevant, but they are minor details.

Get it? LMFAO

To some degree anything less than a championship in the NBA is a failure but the context of that failure is what matters. Who cares about failures that result in minor dings? I've given you several examples of inferior players who were Olympic winners, guys like Kidd, VC, KG. Why would I crucify Duncan for not following in their footsteps? Exactly, I dont, its a MINOR ding, one that barely registers on the legacy radar. When it comes to TEAM achievements, NBA accomplishments are of so much more importance than a rare event that the US wasn't putting much importance on.


IMO Kobe would have been the difference. I just don't see him losing to a college level team. No one took control of that team as the leader, their fault. I hardly doubt Kobe wouldn't at least try.
Except that we did have leaders. And these weren't College level teams LMFAO, do you even know why the Dream Team started? Its because our College kids couldn't keep up (that and they chose the wrong kids), that was decades ago.

You have to be dumber than rocks to think International competition has stagnated since then.

LOL at the line, " Kobe wouldn't at least try", as if Duncan just laid down and accepted defeat. Kobephiles are the worst cancer on this board by far. Learn the game plz, your idol is not infallible, he doesn't guarantee victory against the best teams in a single game the same way he doesn't guarantee success vs the Charlotte Bobcats. Kobe on that team wins Bronze just the same, that team wasn't built for International success.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-24-2013, 05:35 PM
Apparently enough to get you into flame mode, which didn't take long. And Im comparing the historical significance of it, yes. Its a minor detail because nobody would dare blame Duncan for that Bronze same way no one would say **** about Kobe's air balls.


What makes you think I didn't get it when my last post says:

do you even know the definition of the word nick? Its like a ding. Dings arent irrelevant, but they are minor details.

Get it? LMFAO

To some degree anything less than a championship in the NBA is a failure but the context of that failure is what matters. Who cares about failures that result in minor dings? I've given you several examples of inferior players who were Olympic winners, guys like Kidd, VC, KG. Why would I crucify Duncan for not following in their footsteps? Exactly, I dont, its a MINOR ding, one that barely registers on the legacy radar. When it comes to TEAM achievements, NBA accomplishments are of so much more importance than a rare event that the US wasn't putting much importance on.


Except that we did have leaders. And these weren't College level teams LMFAO, do you even know why the Dream Team started? Its because our College kids couldn't keep up (that and they chose the wrong kids), that was decades ago.

You have to be dumber than rocks to think International competition has stagnated since then.

LOL at the line, " Kobe wouldn't at least try", as if Duncan just laid down and accepted defeat. Kobephiles are the worst cancer on this board by far. Learn the game plz, your idol is not infallible, he doesn't guarantee victory against the best teams in a single game the same way he doesn't guarantee success vs the Charlotte Bobcats. Kobe on that team wins Bronze just the same, that team wasn't built for International success.

You once again make an air ball = losing to an inferior team in the Olympics. In no way shape or form is your example making the slightest sense.

Why shouldn't Duncan be held somewhat responsible for losing in the Olympics, because you said so? Duncan was one of the main guys so he would get more blame as to a role player like Kidd.
Ohhh, so now USA did try in that competition and let other teams beat them down because of how irrelevant the event is:laugh2: Wow.

International teams are not as good as you would like to believe. The Current Heat would beat up every team out there. Don't be mad because you were never accepted as a Laker fan growing up. So Kobe would have made no difference? Kobe won us Gold vs Spain in the 08 finals. I think he would have done his thing in 04 if he played.

3RDASYSTEM
05-24-2013, 05:46 PM
You once again make an air ball = losing to an inferior team in the Olympics. In no way shape or form is your example making the slightest sense.

Why shouldn't Duncan be held somewhat responsible for losing in the Olympics, because you said so? Duncan was one of the main guys so he would get more blame as to a role player like Kidd.
Ohhh, so now USA did try in that competition and let other teams beat them down because of how irrelevant the event is:laugh2: Wow.

International teams are not as good as you would like to believe. The Current Heat would beat up every team out there. Don't be mad because you were never accepted as a Laker fan growing up. So Kobe would have made no difference? Kobe won us Gold vs Spain in the 08 finals. I think he would have done his thing in 04 if he played.

That 04 medal was strictly coaching

BROWN was thinking he was in nba and still trying to pound the ball and run half court style

he had BRON-WADE-AI and other fast athletes at his disposal

J THOMPSON or MIKE K should have been coaching that squad, at least they would have maximized the talents of WADE-BRON-AI on court at same time, that's GOLD medal allday everyday, coaching happens to matter somewhat also in OLYMPICS

imagine if COACH K had that 04' roster, despite all the withdrawals at last second(see BEAN) and no practice or nothing like what it is today getting ready

but oh well they still failed according to U.S. standards,thank STERN for the redeem team

Hawkeye15
05-24-2013, 05:48 PM
That 04 medal was strictly coaching

BROWN was thinking he was in nba and still trying to pound the ball and run half court style

he had BRON-WADE-AI and other fast athletes at his disposal

J THOMPSON or MIKE K should have been coaching that squad, at least they would have maximized the talents of WADE-BRON-AI on court at same time, that's GOLD medal allday everyday, coaching happens to matter somewhat also in OLYMPICS

imagine if COACH K had that 04' roster, despite all the withdrawals at last second(see BEAN) and no practice or nothing like what it is today getting ready

but oh well they still failed according to U.S. standards,thank STERN for the redeem team

we also decided to send a ton of terrible shooters to the Olympics, knowing the defenses would just pack it in on us.

3RDASYSTEM
05-24-2013, 05:50 PM
Ya, Lebron did play consistently great throughout the entire Olympics...against high school level competition.


This is why I know you don't have a clue about bball and for damn sure never picked up a ball and made a practice layup

BRON has been killing NBA comp for the past 10yrs with 4MVP's to add(robbed for a 5th)

last we both checked isn't the nba the highest so called bball level in the world?

now I would post his numbers but you would say half of the nba are dleague-ncaa players during his tenure, you know something of that stupid *** nature

3RDASYSTEM
05-24-2013, 05:53 PM
we also decided to send a ton of terrible shooters to the Olympics, knowing the defenses would just pack it in on us.

exactly that's why you have to utilize the speed of WADE-BRON-AI

MARBURY-AI could hit 3's but it was coming from half court and not run and gun wide open style

once again they had BRON-AI-WADE, that's serious speed

just imagine how HEAT are built now,this is OLYMPIC squad 3x more dangerous in open court if ran right way

Hawkeye15
05-24-2013, 05:55 PM
exactly that's why you have to utilize the speed of WADE-BRON-AI

MARBURY-AI could hit 3's but it was coming from half court and not run and gun wide open style

once again they had BRON-AI-WADE, that's serious speed

just imagine how HEAT are built now,this is OLYMPIC squad 3x more dangerous in open court if ran right way

But speed didn't work against that slow down, pack the lane defense. Those games are why we completely re-tooled how we evaluate the teams we send. You need shooters to bust zones, to open up lanes for our superior athletes. Bron wasn't much of a shooter yet, at all, Wade has never really been a great shooter, AI and Starbury had problems, and we didn't have any stretch bigs. The team was poorly constructed, and poorly coached.

3RDASYSTEM
05-24-2013, 06:04 PM
You once again make an air ball = losing to an inferior team in the Olympics. In no way shape or form is your example making the slightest sense.

Why shouldn't Duncan be held somewhat responsible for losing in the Olympics, because you said so? Duncan was one of the main guys so he would get more blame as to a role player like Kidd.
Ohhh, so now USA did try in that competition and let other teams beat them down because of how irrelevant the event is:laugh2: Wow.

International teams are not as good as you would like to believe. The Current Heat would beat up every team out there. Don't be mad because you were never accepted as a Laker fan growing up. So Kobe would have made no difference? Kobe won us Gold vs Spain in the 08 finals. I think he would have done his thing in 04 if he played.

So now BEAN won gold against college level competition also since BRON dominated that same type right?

BEAN shot those airballs as a ****ing backupguard that's why he didn't get no media or peer heat, JONES/VAN EXEL didn't show up so they went and crossed they fingers to hope that the backupguard developed some 'clutchness' after being in allstar game but backing up the I guess better individual player JONES, show me or name me a top 10 player of alltime in any sport that was a backup and I will call you a lie,best of alltime, the 10 best, not greatest like how you try to rank your nba drafted foster child BEAN

no backup player will ever get media knocked for shooting airballs in regular or playoff season because the starters failed and they supposed to deliver when it counts more crucial,go check its well documented thru history

that's why I know hype at its finest...thanks to LA/NYC markets and the fiens that follow suit

that's why I been saying its not a ****ing big deal to be a backupguard and then convert to a fulltime starter

How stupid is HARRIS or any coach in nba history dumb enough not to play the 2nd best SG of alltime lesser than JONES and VAN EXEL combined at any time in his career, for goodness sake he is the 2nd best alltime SG right, I mean greatest

he couldn't even beat out JONES in training camp after demanding to be traded there, shunning HORNETS/NETS

2 teams I bet the house on he would start day1 fulltime,not yr4

3RDASYSTEM
05-24-2013, 06:12 PM
But speed didn't work against that slow down, pack the lane defense. Those games are why we completely re-tooled how we evaluate the teams we send. You need shooters to bust zones, to open up lanes for our superior athletes. Bron wasn't much of a shooter yet, at all, Wade has never really been a great shooter, AI and Starbury had problems, and we didn't have any stretch bigs. The team was poorly constructed, and poorly coached.

but they didn't practice or do nothing at all with that 04' team

that team could have created turnovers and all of that what we see of past 2 teams, that's all im saying

of course it was poorly constructed, and the coaching followed

the talent was there to compete if THOMPSON or COACH K was running the show

but we pretty much both agree with diff views but come to same outlook

AI and MARBURY could hit open 3's, especially playing in a style that fits they game, WADE-BRON-AI would have been a problem if given the keys to press and play off instincts-reaction-pressing-gambling

they were running halfcourt style with speed-athletes, that's recipe for disaster, even at the ymca

playing a motion movement type offense is better than throw it to DUNCAN and let him decide, this aint SA this is a super allstar squad

MARION-JEFFERSON-ODOM is more athletes along with a young dynamic AMARE

ODOM-BOOZER were the 15-18ft stretch shooters, which would have been perfect for that super fast pace they could have instilled with turnovers galore,then run the pick and pop type plays

but your right like I stated on about how poorly constructed the squad was, borderline travesty(across the board)

when something is patched up and put out like this squad was you most def. have to go with the strength of the core, which was fast pace force the issue over halfcourt slow down style

Chronz
05-24-2013, 06:38 PM
You once again make an air ball = losing to an inferior team in the Olympics. In no way shape or form is your example making the slightest sense.
Equal as in exactly the same? Not at all, just both in the same realm of frivolity. What would I care where you rank such measures?


Why shouldn't Duncan be held somewhat responsible for losing in the Olympics, because you said so?
Usually when people want to assign blame for losing, they assign it to the players most responsible. So WHY should I blindly blame Duncan?


Duncan was one of the main guys so he would get more blame as to a role player like Kidd.
Good, you're at least attempting to apply context. Except Kidd won more than just the medals you recently remember. Go ahead and google the 2000 Olympics.

Secondly, notice the 2 conflicting arguments you have for Duncan and Kidd/Bron. When it comes to Duncan, he takes most of the blame because he was a main head, but when it comes to Kidd/LeBron, being a "role player" isnt as forgivable as it was for the other.

Essentially, you're saying everyone takes the brunt of the blame equally, only the main heads take the most blame, regardless of how they actually performed. I know you want to put Kobe on this infallible pedestal but he does not guarantee success on his own, I would hope you would have learned how much of a team game this is by now but you're clearly in denial.




Ohhh, so now USA did try in that competition and let other teams beat them down because of how irrelevant the event is:laugh2: Wow.
Can you run this one by me one more time? What are you insinuating that Im saying?


International teams are not as good as you would like to believe.
False, YOU said they were Collegiate level, but the very reason pros were allowed to compete in the first place was because of the very failure of those Collegeiates. NOW it takes our best team building to compete. We will always have the edge in individual talent, but only a certifiable lame would conclude thats all that matters in winning and losing.



The Current Heat would beat up every team out there.
I would hope so, thats a TEAM that has been acclimated to each others presence for awhile. I'd wager several NBA teams could run the gauntlet against International competition but that conversation gets dicey when you have International players on those very same pro teams. Thats why in 04 I said, if we would have just sent the Pistons, we would have dominated. But they had guys like Okur playing for them so basically we should just upgrade whatever team won the chip or something. After that disaster is when Team USA began planting the seeds that led up to developing the kind of team chemistry needed to win. Contrary to your belief, we didn't win gold just because we added Kobe (and Kidd for that matter).


Kobe won us Gold vs Spain in the 08 finals. I think he would have done his thing in 04 if he played.
You named 1 game. The tournament consists of SEVERAL games, many of which could end your stay. Would you rely on the consistency of 1 man(particularly a streaky shooter like Kobe), to carry you through a single game elimination tourney? Team USA doesn't build teams that way, they dont just rely on any 1 guy because they have more than just 1 player available to them. Despite absolutely no chemistry, we have the talent to compete with anyone, but thats not to say we ignore it entirely. Team USA changed its methods because they recognized the importance of stability and chemistry (the kind the International squads had). To their credit, they recognized it back after the debacle in 2002.

The original Redeem team was suppose to be :
Kidd, Kobe, Tmac, Jermaine, Duncan
Ray Allen, Iverson, Brand, Odom among others. That team (minus Kobe) obliterated the warmup to the Olympics (Tourney of Americas), including several wins against Argentina. That squad had EVERYTHING, and they were just getting started but then the injuries mounted.

Tmacs back flared up during FIBA play, they plagued him into the regular season that saw his team finish with like 19 wins. Kobe was going through the trial or had that injured shoulder or something. Some players backed out for security reasons regarding 9-11.

Whatever the reason, by the Olympics, the team that had practiced together was gone, in their place was a wishy washy blend of inferior talents and redundant skillsets. The exact opposite of how you win international basketball.

04 was the result of bad luck and poor team decisions.

Chronz
05-24-2013, 06:41 PM
That 04 medal was strictly coaching

BROWN was thinking he was in nba and still trying to pound the ball and run half court style

he had BRON-WADE-AI and other fast athletes at his disposal

J THOMPSON or MIKE K should have been coaching that squad, at least they would have maximized the talents of WADE-BRON-AI on court at same time, that's GOLD medal allday everyday, coaching happens to matter somewhat also in OLYMPICS

imagine if COACH K had that 04' roster, despite all the withdrawals at last second(see BEAN) and no practice or nothing like what it is today getting ready

but oh well they still failed according to U.S. standards,thank STERN for the redeem team

You're just saying this because you dont want AI to get the blame. Which is fine, but trying to win by only running and gunning is the mistake Team USA made in 06. They mixed it up much more than that by 08 and onto today.

Now they run some semi respectable plays and they trap with less gambles too. In short, they have all grown to become a TEAM.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-24-2013, 07:20 PM
Equal as in exactly the same? Not at all, just both in the same realm of frivolity. What would I care where you rank such measures?


Usually when people want to assign blame for losing, they assign it to the players most responsible. So WHY should I blindly blame Duncan?


Good, you're at least attempting to apply context. Except Kidd won more than just the medals you recently remember. Go ahead and google the 2000 Olympics.

Secondly, notice the 2 conflicting arguments you have for Duncan and Kidd/Bron. When it comes to Duncan, he takes most of the blame because he was a main head, but when it comes to Kidd/LeBron, being a "role player" isnt as forgivable as it was for the other.

Essentially, you're saying everyone takes the brunt of the blame equally, only the main heads take the most blame, regardless of how they actually performed. I know you want to put Kobe on this infallible pedestal but he does not guarantee success on his own, I would hope you would have learned how much of a team game this is by now but you're clearly in denial.




Can you run this one by me one more time? What are you insinuating that Im saying?


False, YOU said they were Collegiate level, but the very reason pros were allowed to compete in the first place was because of the very failure of those Collegeiates. NOW it takes our best team building to compete. We will always have the edge in individual talent, but only a certifiable lame would conclude thats all that matters in winning and losing.



I would hope so, thats a TEAM that has been acclimated to each others presence for awhile. I'd wager several NBA teams could run the gauntlet against International competition but that conversation gets dicey when you have International players on those very same pro teams. Thats why in 04 I said, if we would have just sent the Pistons, we would have dominated. But they had guys like Okur playing for them so basically we should just upgrade whatever team won the chip or something. After that disaster is when Team USA began planting the seeds that led up to developing the kind of team chemistry needed to win. Contrary to your belief, we didn't win gold just because we added Kobe (and Kidd for that matter).


You named 1 game. The tournament consists of SEVERAL games, many of which could end your stay. Would you rely on the consistency of 1 man(particularly a streaky shooter like Kobe), to carry you through a single game elimination tourney? Team USA doesn't build teams that way, they dont just rely on any 1 guy because they have more than just 1 player available to them. Despite absolutely no chemistry, we have the talent to compete with anyone, but thats not to say we ignore it entirely. Team USA changed its methods because they recognized the importance of stability and chemistry (the kind the International squads had). To their credit, they recognized it back after the debacle in 2002.

The original Redeem team was suppose to be :
Kidd, Kobe, Tmac, Jermaine, Duncan
Ray Allen, Iverson, Brand, Odom among others. That team (minus Kobe) obliterated the warmup to the Olympics (Tourney of Americas), including several wins against Argentina. That squad had EVERYTHING, and they were just getting started but then the injuries mounted.

Tmacs back flared up during FIBA play, they plagued him into the regular season that saw his team finish with like 19 wins. Kobe was going through the trial or had that injured shoulder or something. Some players backed out for security reasons regarding 9-11.

Whatever the reason, by the Olympics, the team that had practiced together was gone, in their place was a wishy washy blend of inferior talents and redundant skillsets. The exact opposite of how you win international basketball.

04 was the result of bad luck and poor team decisions.

You're lost then.

So who was responsible for them losing in 04?

You're really just proving my point more, Jason kidd had a bigger role in 2000, where he and a few other lead Usa to Gold. They had an inferior team to the 2004 team, but still won gold. Then come the next Olympics where Duncan, Lebron and others couldn't win it. Why do they get a pass? Lebron might have gotten a for that pass, but failed once again in 2006. How are we going to brush this off as nothing, and according to you "in the realm of a ****ing air ball":rolleyes:

I was more proving the point that compared to how stacked the USA always is, other teams are basically college level.7-10 players on every team besides USA wouldn't last one year in the NBA.



Team USA was never in trouble in any games besides the championship game. Why would Kobe go full force when team USA cruised in every game? We had Problems with one team and in one game. Guess who should up and decided to put America on his back? Even our coach said it was Kobe time.

I don't care what excuses you got for that team. No way Team usa should have lost to a team whos top three plays are Manu,Delfino,Oberto. The 2004 Olympic team was a complete disaster.

3RDASYSTEM
05-24-2013, 07:30 PM
You're just saying this because you dont want AI to get the blame. Which is fine, but trying to win by only running and gunning is the mistake Team USA made in 06. They mixed it up much more than that by 08 and onto today.

Now they run some semi respectable plays and they trap with less gambles too. In short, they have all grown to become a TEAM.

AI gets the blame for PHI and in DEN and him and DUNCAN take blame in OLYMPICS in my book, but at same time im not blind to the fact that he had MCKIE/SNOW for 7yrs out of 10 and BRON-WADE on bench in OLYMPICS not getting utilized

I stated in earlier posts that you go with strength of a core which was run and gun full court press over slow court style

good try with the AI ******** blame game, he gets the same blame that BRON got in CLE....psd genius you

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-24-2013, 07:45 PM
AI gets the blame for PHI and in DEN and him and DUNCAN take blame in OLYMPICS in my book, but at same time im not blind to the fact that he had MCKIE/SNOW for 7yrs out of 10 and BRON-WADE on bench in OLYMPICS not getting utilized

I stated in earlier posts that you go with strength of a core which was run and gun full court press over slow court style

good try with the AI ******** blame game, he gets the same blame that BRON got in CLE....psd genius you

Are you American?

Chronz
05-24-2013, 09:44 PM
You're lost then.
Says the guy who thought J-Kidd only won a Gold Medal as a "role player" lmfao. Stop bickering over frivolities you know so little about.


So who was responsible for them losing in 04?
Sure, first tell me if you even saw those games.


You're really just proving my point more, Jason kidd had a bigger role in 2000, where he and a few other lead Usa to Gold. They had an inferior team to the 2004 team, but still won gold. Then come the next Olympics where Duncan, Lebron and others couldn't win it. Why do they get a pass? Lebron might have gotten a for that pass, but failed once again in 2006. How are we going to brush this off as nothing, and according to you "in the realm of a ****ing air ball":rolleyes:
Can you substantiate any of your claims, What do you mean inferior team? A minute ago you couldn't even recall that J-Kidd was on that team, now you expect me to believe you have a firm handle on replacement value? LMFAO

And they get a pass because they werent the ones at fault. Why should I place any emphasis on something you yourself have very limited knowledge about? Stick with NBA talk bro, at least then you can hide your lack of knowledge.


I was more proving the point that compared to how stacked the USA always is, other teams are basically college level.7-10 players on every team besides USA wouldn't last one year in the NBA.
You have a really bad way of trying to prove a point. Facts are, they werent college level teams, they were far tougher than that.



Team USA was never in trouble in any games besides the championship game. Why would Kobe go full force when team USA cruised in every game? We had Problems with one team and in one game. Guess who should up and decided to put America on his back? Even our coach said it was Kobe time.
Except that in 2004, Kobe would have to go full force, he wouldn't have the sustained team excellence around him that year.


I don't care what excuses you got for that team. No way Team usa should have lost to a team whos top three plays are Manu,Delfino,Oberto. The 2004 Olympic team was a complete disaster.
Well why would anyone care what a man who leaves no room for context thinks? LOL if you wish to debate feel free, but dont expect anyone to take your opinion seriously when you consider how thoroughly exposed you've been.

3RDASYSTEM
05-24-2013, 10:46 PM
Are you American?

Have you ever competed in any organized sport?

No im not an AMERICAN, i'm an AVENGER

JordansBulls
05-24-2013, 11:29 PM
This thread is getting dumb now.