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View Full Version : Carmelo haters and their expectations..



smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 11:30 AM
please explain your hate for Carmelo ... I don't get it.

The next best player on that team is amare who has been nothing but injury prone since Melo got to New York. Tyson chandler does not look like the same player he was in Dallas. The 2nd best scroring option on the Knicks is a very inefficient jr smith..

Melo just took his crappy team to the 2nd round, with out much help. His team in Denver was better then the team around him currently. they lost to a bigger and tougher team in the pacers. Nothing to be ashamed of..

Melo is a good player , top 10 for sure. But name me a player who won it all himself ? We all know lebron sure as hell couldn't do it.. We discovered that durant can't even get out of the first round with out westy.. so whats with the expectations on Melo? Why the double standard?

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 11:31 AM
stupidity?

Kenny
05-19-2013, 11:34 AM
wooohooo another topic on Melo. The guy is doing something right to get all this attention as Chris Paul with his 16-24 playoff record gets a pass and he had better plaers then Melo does.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 11:35 AM
1 dimensional scorer

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 11:36 AM
1 dimensional scorer

I think your talking about Joe Johnson ;)

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 11:36 AM
1 dimensional scorer

dupe my fault

Sly Guy
05-19-2013, 11:38 AM
no player wins on their own, so it's kinda stupid. However, I think most of the hate come from either
a) not recognizing you need talent around your main guy to succeed.
b) hate for the NYC fan base that is projected onto their main guy.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 11:39 AM
1 dimensional scorer

So you hate him because he is a scorer? you dont like his rebounding for his position? Or are u blindly hating on the guy like a lot of others who are feeding in to this none sense?

you dont think he would go further with say maybe a d wade and chris bosh? or how bout if he had westy and harden ? with out those two durant didnt even get out of round 1 .. but melo in that situation is just a crappy one dimensional scorer ?.. my question is why the double standard?

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 11:40 AM
no player wins on their own, so it's kinda stupid. However, I think most of the hate come from either
a) not recognizing you need talent around your main guy to succeed.
b) hate for the NYC fan base that is projected onto their main guy.

I agree with this.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 11:44 AM
wooohooo another topic on Melo. The guy is doing something right to get all this attention as Chris Paul with his 16-24 playoff record gets a pass and he had better plaers then Melo does.


I'm a raptor fan. but I notice alot of hate on psd for the knicks and melo. it needs to be addressed.

in this league you have roles. Not everyone is lebron James and does everything. most players have roles. scorers, defensive stoppers, 3 point specialists, 6th men etc.

Never have I seen any one player win the big one with out other star caliber players. So I wanna know why dudes single out Carmelo for not being able to do it..

PhillyFaninLA
05-19-2013, 11:45 AM
I think sometimes people confuse hate and evualation. I have no hate for Melo but I wouldn't want him on the Sixers. He is an explosive dynamic offensive player, he is an elite scorer, he can hit the clutch shot. He often the reason for a clutch shot being needed by letting teams come back. He does not due the little things that you need to do to win championships, he is to selfish for that. He is a me first guy.

Not saying that with any hate towards the guy.


I have a serious questions for the TC, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this topic and why does this topic need to exsist with the other Melo topics?

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 11:47 AM
no player wins on their own, so it's kinda stupid. However, I think most of the hate come from either
a) not recognizing you need talent around your main guy to succeed.
b) hate for the NYC fan base that is projected onto their main guy.

pretty much, there are alot of posters who literally sit around waiting for bad Knicks news to post it.

There is a certain "miami heat fan" poster with well over 50k posts, and like 45k have been about the knicks.

Knicks were hated even when they were horrible and irrelevant. I don't get it either.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 11:47 AM
So you hate him because he is a scorer? you dont like his rebounding for his ?

you dont think he would go further with say maybe a d wade and chris bosh? or how bout if he had westy and harden ? with out those two durant didnt even get out of round 1 .. but melo in that situation is just a crappy one dimensional scorer ?.. my question is why the double standard?

There is no double standard. All those other guys face criticism as well. Melo is no martyr.

D1JM
05-19-2013, 11:48 AM
He's a chucker and doesn't pass the ball when his shots aren't falling in. Knicks look more dangerous to me when felton dominates the rock

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 11:54 AM
I think sometimes people confuse hate and evualation. I have no hate for Melo but I wouldn't want him on the Sixers. He is an explosive dynamic offensive player, he is an elite scorer, he can hit the clutch shot. He often the reason for a clutch shot being needed by letting teams come back. He does not due the little things that you need to do to win championships, he is to selfish for that. He is a me first guy.

Not saying that with any hate towards the guy.


I have a serious questions for the TC, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this topic and why does this topic need to exsist with the other Melo topics?

What am I trying to accomplish? Easy why the double standard ? If Melo had the supporting cast durant had or lebron has he can easily contend for the ship.

Also your evaluation is not an accurate one because I would easily take Melo over anyone on the 76ers. In fact I'd take him over any combination of three players on that team.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 11:56 AM
What am I trying to accomplish? Easy why the double standard ? If Melo had the supporting cast durant had or lebron has he can easily contend for the ship.

Also your evaluation is not an accurate one because I would easily take Melo over anyone on the 76ers. In fact I'd take him over any combination of three players on that team.
Except the 76ers made it out of the 1st RD last year while Melo couldn't. It's that kind of stuff that makes him an easy target.

When is the last time LeBron or Durant failed to get their team out of the 1st RD?

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 11:58 AM
The guy averaged 28.7 ppg 6.9 rpg & 2.6 apt this past season.

he as an elite scorer, a clutch finisher, but you don't want him on your team? Because he can't take a below average supporting cast past the 2nd round... Sure..

VCaintdead17
05-19-2013, 11:59 AM
He should try to be more like Lance

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 11:59 AM
Except the 76ers made it out of the 1st RD last year while Melo couldn't. It's that kind of stuff that makes him an easy target.

When is the last time LeBron or Durant failed to get their team out of the 1st RD?

First of all the 76ers and Knicks both had very different teams last season. So I don't k ow what this proves.

Also i find this pretty funny. if the 76ers made it out the first round it's a team effort ... But if the Knicks don't its melo's fault lol hahahahahaha this is hilarious. Again double standard.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:01 PM
The guy averaged 28.7 ppg 6.9 rpg & 2.6 apt this past season.

he as an elite scorer, a clutch finisher, but you don't want him on your team? Because he can't take a below average supporting cast past the 2nd round... Sure..
But he couldn't get his team out of the 1st RD 3 years straight.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:02 PM
First of all the 76ers and Knicks both had very different teams last seaso. So I don't k ow what this proves.

Also i find this prettyyou funny. if the 76ers made it out the first round it's a team effort ... But if the Knicks don't its melo's fault lol hahahahahaha this is hilarious. Again double standard.
76ers dont have a superstar they barely had an allstar I dont see the double standard

mdm692
05-19-2013, 12:02 PM
wooohooo another topic on Melo. The guy is doing something right to get all this attention as Chris Paul with his 16-24 playoff record gets a pass and he had better plaers then Melo does.
This>>> Any other post. CP3 overrated.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 12:02 PM
First of all the 76ers and Knicks both had very different teams last seaso. So I don't k ow what this proves.

Also i find this prettyyou funny. if the 76ers made it out the first round it's a team effort ... But if the Knicks don't its melo's fault lol hahahahahaha this is hilarious. Again double standard.

Nah he wants players like DWill and Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace on his team :laugh:

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:05 PM
Nah he wants players like DWill and Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace on his team :laugh:

Guys who play thru injuries, make clutch shots, and play defense. Check Check Check.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:05 PM
He should try to be more like Lance

A hot head ? Lance was very good this series no doubt. but your trolling is just proving my point.

ewing
05-19-2013, 12:05 PM
1 dimensional scorer

He is a multi- demnsional scorer if i have ever seen one. Melo can score from everywhere on the court, off the dribble, off the catch, off screens, facing up, posting up, in the screen roll. You name it

ThaDubs
05-19-2013, 12:06 PM
He was amazing in the regular season but he went completely ghost in the playoffs

mdm692
05-19-2013, 12:06 PM
Except the 76ers made it out of the 1st RD last year while Melo couldn't. It's that kind of stuff that makes him an easy target.

When is the last time LeBron or Durant failed to get their team out of the 1st RD?
I guess Rose and Noah being injured for the Bulls and Lin, Shumpert, Davis and Stoudemire for the Knicks doesn't count for anything.

PhillyFaninLA
05-19-2013, 12:07 PM
What am I trying to accomplish? Easy why the double standard ? If Melo had the supporting cast durant had or lebron has he can easily contend for the ship.

Also your evaluation is not an accurate one because I would easily take Melo over anyone on the 76ers. In fact I'd take him over any combination of three players on that team.

I didn't say he wasn't better than we had (learn to read), I said I don't want him. You don't win titles with players like him.

VCaintdead17
05-19-2013, 12:07 PM
A hot head ? Lance was very good this series no doubt. but your trolling is just proving my point.

Yeah but Lance

ewing
05-19-2013, 12:08 PM
I didn't say he wasn't better than we had (learn to read), I said I don't want him. You don't win titles with players like him.

And you are admitting to be a troll and to baiting in your response here. So you made this topic to rial people up, that is TOS violation.

No you actually do win titles with elite scorers. Most championship teams have one

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 12:08 PM
Guys who play thru injuries, make clutch shots, and play defense. Check Check Check.

This is all made up crap. Mostly by you and your partner in crime, DMF.


The real story. You couldnt beat half a team check, sorry. I mean un-check.

ThaDubs
05-19-2013, 12:08 PM
1 dimensional scorer

The last thing Carmelo is is a one dimensional scorer.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:09 PM
I guess Rose and Noah being injured for the Bulls and Lin, Shumpert, Davis and Stoudemire for the Knicks doesn't count for anything.

So were supposed to feel bad the Knicks weren't good enough to do better than a 7 seed? They earned that matchup and got smacked for it. As you can see the Bulls are a pretty tough team to beat even without Rose.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:10 PM
This is all made up crap. Mostly by you and your partner in crime, DMF.


The real story. You couldnt beat half a team check, sorry. I mean un-check.

Neither could you. Literally. You guys got swept.

ne3xchamps
05-19-2013, 12:10 PM
cool story bro. He's a offensive minded player who has to have the ball all the time. Melo will NEVER win a chip until he changes into a 2 way player and not shoot 30-40 times a game.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:11 PM
Guys who play thru injuries, make clutch shots, and play defense. Check Check Check.

Again with your double standard bs... those guys didnt even make it out the firs round and lost to a team whos three best players are injured. Crash plays through injuries? tell me the last time crash wasn't injured?

D.will has a better cast on his team and the nets were first round exit. Yet Melo gets all this hate.. You don't think Melo plays through injuries? Do you ever have anything to back up your claims?

This is why I made the thread. Posters who put little effort in to backing up there "evaluation" and simply attack a player or team are simply trolls. no need to even have a further discussion with you. This is what you are proving.

PhillyFaninLA
05-19-2013, 12:12 PM
No you actually do win titles with elite scorers. Most championship teams have one

Title teams have a MJ, Kobe, Lebron, etc....no team wins a championship with me first offensive minded defensive liabilities like Melo.

I'm talking about Melo specifically and you have to make if general to try and discredit or atler what I said.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:13 PM
Again with your double standard bs... those guys didnt even make it out the firs round and lost to a team whos three best players are injured. Crash plays through injuries? tell me the last time crash wasn't injured?

D.will has a better cast on his team and the nets were first round exit. Yet Melo gets all this hate.. You don't think Melo plays through injuries? Do you ever have anything to back up your claims?

This is why I made the thread. Posters who put little effort in to backing up there "evaluation" and simply attack a player or team are simply trolls. no need to even have a further discussion with you. This is what you are proving.
I'm not asking for sympathy for those guys unlike you. They aren't martyrs. Dwill didn't live up to expectations this year period. No excuses he should do better next year.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 12:15 PM
Neither could you. Literally. You guys got swept.

what half a team?!?!?! danny granger missing??? thats half a team????

This is why I say, dude shutup and stop talking, everytime you post you make yourself sound dumber and dumber

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:17 PM
what half a team?!?!?! danny granger missing??? thats half a team????

This is why I say, dude shutup and stop talking, everytime you post you make yourself sound dumber and dumber

Apparently you have selective amnesia. You missed the Bulls sweeping you guys this year. And I sound dumb? lol you dont even know about your own team.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:17 PM
No you actually do win titles with elite scorers. Most championship teams have one

most have two go to scorers

ewing
05-19-2013, 12:19 PM
Title teams have a MJ, Kobe, Lebron, etc....no team wins a championship with me first offensive minded defensive liabilities like Melo.

I'm talking about Melo specifically and you have to make if general to try and discredit or atler what I said.

Melo is not a bad defender (with the exception of game 6 last night the knicks D was very good for the playoffs- the problem was they couldn't score) and judging my the number of guys that followed him to NY and how this teammates jump to his aid against the Celts i'd say he is reasonable liked by his teammates

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:20 PM
Apparently you have selective amnesia. You missed the Bulls sweeping you guys this year. And I sound dumb? lol you dont even know about your own team.

I'm not insulting you.. But you really need to make better points. The bulls outed the nets with out rose and with deng and Noah being injured. The nets are a deeper team then the Knicks and didn't make the 2nd round can you explain to me why? The team tha eliminated them didn't even have their 3 best players healthy.. One didn't even play ..

Do you see 18 threads on d.will sucking the bag? This is what I mean by the double standard. I know your fully capable in having a normal discussion.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:24 PM
I'm not insulting you.. But you really need to make better points. The bulls outed the nets with out rose and with deng and Noah being injured. The nets are a deeper team then the Knicks and didn't make the 2nd round can you explain to me why? The team tha eliminated them didn't even have their 3 best players health.. One didn't even play ..

They also beat the Heat game 1 without Rose, Deng, Noah being injured on the road on the night LBJ recieved his MVP. Apparently they aren't as bad as you seem to think.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:24 PM
I'm not asking for sympathy for those guys unlike you. They aren't martyrs. Dwill didn't live up to expectations this year period. No excuses he should do better next year.

Sympathy? I'm asking what the double standard is. If you notice in my sig I'm a Toronto fan, why would I be looking for sympathy for a player on another team?

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 12:24 PM
People say Melo is one dimensional and all that, and at the same time compare him to what Durant & LBJ have done... those are the 2 best players in the game today. A pretty high standard for anyone to live up to.

and that being said, even those 2 couldn't do it alone, Durant would have lost to HOU had WB been out that whole series. He lost in 5 to MEM while shooting 42%.

LBJ needed not 1 but TWO other superstars to win his 1st title. He had a much better cast in CLE than what Melo has now and still couldn't win.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:24 PM
They also beat the Heat game 1 without Rose, Deng, Noah being injured on the road on the night LBJ recieved his MVP. Apparently they aren't as bad as you seem to think.

they didn't eliminate the heat did they ? Right...

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:25 PM
they didn't eliminate the heat did they ? Right...

The Heat are the best team in the NBA so no........

mvb815
05-19-2013, 12:25 PM
not melo's fault, anybody who wouldn't want melo on their team is lying or delusional. classic lebron in cleveland syndrome, the second best player on the team is JR SMITH come on people.

put a team around him

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:27 PM
not melo's fault, anybody who wouldn't want melo on their team is lying or delusional. classic lebron in cleveland syndrome, the second best player on the team is JR SMITH come on people.

put a team around him
LeBron had a worse supporting cast in CLE and never failed to get his team out of the 1st RD for 3 STRAIGHT YEARS

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:29 PM
cool story bro. He's a offensive minded player who has to have the ball all the time. Melo will NEVER win a chip until he changes into a 2 way player and not shoot 30-40 times a game.

Thank you, but wtf are you talking about ?

your entitled to your opinion and in fact of all the responses I like yours best saying that he isn't a two way player and puts up too many shots. These are actual reasons you are providing to back up your claim and I respect that.

Although I would have further discussed this with you if you didn't start your post with "cool story bro" clearly your baiting me so I'm just gonna move on. Have a good one.

mvb815
05-19-2013, 12:29 PM
LeBron had a worse supporting cast in CLE and never failed to get his team out of the 1st RD for 3 STRAIGHT YEARS

when lebron retires he has a chance to go down as the best to ever play the game, melo doesn't and doesn't deserve harsh criticism for not matching up to that plateau.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:32 PM
when lebron retires he has a chance to go down as the best to ever play the game, melo doesn't and doesn't deserve harsh criticism for not matching up to that plateau.

Never happened to Durant either or Dirk or Derrick Rose

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:33 PM
LeBron had a worse supporting cast in CLE and never failed to get his team out of the 1st RD for 3 STRAIGHT YEARS

so the best player in the world by far couldn't win a ship with a crappy supporting cast. Fled to Miami to play with other superstar talent, all star talent. now your giving him credit for not being a first round exit. This is classic psd stuff right here. I don't even think you know what a double standard is.

D1JM
05-19-2013, 12:33 PM
when lebron retires he has a chance to go down as the best to ever play the game, melo doesn't and doesn't deserve harsh criticism for not matching up to that plateau.

doubt it. the argument of lebron having to join forces with 2 other superstars in order to win. jordan didnt need to join forces with gary payton and charles barkley/ewing to win a championship

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 12:34 PM
Apparently you have selective amnesia. You missed the Bulls sweeping you guys this year. And I sound dumb? lol you dont even know about your own team.

Just to placate this stupidity (and increase my post count :D) when we played the Bulls....

Luol Deng - there
Kirk Hinrich - there
Joakim Noah - no minutes restrictions

any other dumb points you wanna make?

justinnum1
05-19-2013, 12:35 PM
He is a #2 option masquerading as a #1 option.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:35 PM
Just to placate this stupidity (and increase my post count :D) when we played the Bulls....

Luol Deng - there
Kirk Hinrich - there
Joakim Noah - no minutes restrictions

any other dumb points you wanna make?

Oh they were there when the BULLS ended your precious 13 game winning streak? I dont think so. FYI Jimmy Butler was an upgrade over Deng :laugh:

justinnum1
05-19-2013, 12:36 PM
doubt it. the argument of lebron having to join forces with 2 other superstars in order to win. jordan didnt need to join forces with gary payton and charles barkley/ewing to win a championship

Kids today dont even know who jordan is. I think jordan will go down as the best ever, but dont be surprised in 15 years when the kids today are saying lebron is the goat...

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 12:37 PM
I think sometimes people confuse hate and evualation. I have no hate for Melo but I wouldn't want him on the Sixers. He is an explosive dynamic offensive player, he is an elite scorer, he can hit the clutch shot. He often the reason for a clutch shot being needed by letting teams come back. He does not due the little things that you need to do to win championships, he is to selfish for that. He is a me first guy.

Not saying that with any hate towards the guy.


I have a serious questions for the TC, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this topic and why does this topic need to exsist with the other Melo topics?

exactly this. I don't think Melo is a winner. He plays for himself over his team. He is out of this world talented, but just doesn't understand how to play team basketball at the end of the day. His style worked at Cuse, because its college ball, and someone as talented as Melo can literally take over games at will. But it doesn't work like that in the NBA. He never lets the game come to him, he forces his game over all other facets. Meaning you live and die with Melo. When the good times are a rollin', he takes over and you win. When the bad times come in, he isn't changing his game, and you lose.

The thing with Melo has always been, he is an elite TALENT, but is he an elite PLAYER?

I don't think so. And I don't like him or hate him. Totally indifferent, and enjoy watching him as a basketball fan. Just my evaluation on him.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 12:39 PM
Kids today dont even know who jordan is. I think jordan will go down as the best ever,

I know. They're so disssrespectful

--Stephen A Smith

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 12:39 PM
not melo's fault, anybody who wouldn't want melo on their team is lying or delusional. classic lebron in cleveland syndrome, the second best player on the team is JR SMITH come on people.

put a team around him

Melo has been surrounded by good players in the past and still not done anything with them.

He has too many flaws. He regularly takes a ton of bad shots. He forces things when he should be passing the ball. His shooting is very inconsistent, as is his effort in general. On defense, he shows flashes of being great, but it never lasts long. He's also not much of a leader.

All of those opinions have nothing to do with him playing in New York either. He was the exact same way in Denver, and I'd have told you the same thing then, too. In my opinion, unless he either changes his game so that he's passing more and being more selective with his shots or he just gets on an incredible hot streak (a la Dirk and the Mavs a couple years ago), he will never win a championship as the main guy.

PhillyFaninLA
05-19-2013, 12:40 PM
not melo's fault, anybody who wouldn't want melo on their team is lying or delusional. classic lebron in cleveland syndrome, the second best player on the team is JR SMITH come on people.

put a team around him

I'm neither....I wouldn't want a selfish me first guy that is the type of guy you cannot win a title with.....what I mean is you put him on the Heat this year they don't win, the Lakers or Spurs of the recent past, the Bulls of the 90's...you do not win titles with someone like him.....unless its a team as stacked as the Olympic team then its just to much of a discrepency.....I'm neither lying or delusional but you are blindly loyal and unexcepting of views contrary to your own.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:41 PM
exactly this. I don't think Melo is a winner. He plays for himself over his team. He is out of this world talented, but just doesn't understand how to play team basketball at the end of the day. His style worked at Cuse, because its college ball, and someone as talented as Melo can literally take over games at will. But it doesn't work like that in the NBA. He never lets the game come to him, he forces his game over all other facets. Meaning you live and die with Melo. When the good times are a rollin', he takes over and you win. When the bad times come in, he isn't changing his game, and you lose.

The thing with Melo has always been, he is an elite TALENT, but is he an elite PLAYER?

I don't think so. And I don't like him or hate him. Totally indifferent, and enjoy watching him as a basketball fan. Just my evaluation on him.
exactly

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:42 PM
The Heat are the best team in the NBA so no........

doesn't matter. your manipulating each scenario. Also I don't even know what the bulls or nets have to do with this thread? Your confusing yourself by jumping all over the place and grasping for straws. If you have a point then make one. u saying the bulls swept the Knicks in the reg season and then defending the nets being outed by the same bulls proves absolutely nothing other then your confusion.


not melo's fault, anybody who wouldn't want melo on their team is lying or delusional. classic lebron in cleveland syndrome, the second best player on the team is JR SMITH come on people.

put a team around him

Exactly, put a team around him. pierce didn't win until he had kg and Allen. Lebron didn't win until he had wade and bosh and now Allen as well.

I'm not saying Melo is as good as lebron, but I am saying that one superstar ain't getting you a ship.


Never happened to Durant either or Dirk or Derrick Rose

It JUST happened to durant. He was outed with out westy. let west and harden play on the same team as Melo they become instant contenders too. Durant never did anything with out great talent around him.

justinnum1
05-19-2013, 12:42 PM
not melo's fault, anybody who wouldn't want melo on their team is lying or delusional. classic lebron in cleveland syndrome, the second best player on the team is JR SMITH come on people.

put a team around him

I wouldnt want melo on my team, certainly not as a #1 option. The guy is a big time choker. Maybe as a 2nd or 3rd option but even then, he is a black hole on offense, plays no D and he cant adapt his game. There is a reason he has failed as much as he has.

chi-townlove1
05-19-2013, 12:43 PM
Honestly I sit here and listen to you guys hate on Carmelo, Chris paul, Durant for their playoff performances and it just dazzles me at how derrick rose is so undervalued on this website. His consistent and strong playoff performances are so impressive, yet he gets underrated. Lebron couldn't even carry his team to the championship with little help. Why do you guys hate on Carmelo so much. I mean it is a team sport. It's not like Carmelo is the only good player on the Knicks, he has help. Durant has help. Rose has help. Chris paul has a ton of help. And obviously Lebron has the most help. But I truly don't get why the blame is put on one player. They can't win a championship by themselves.

mvb815
05-19-2013, 12:43 PM
doubt it. the argument of lebron having to join forces with 2 other superstars in order to win. jordan didnt need to join forces with gary payton and charles barkley/ewing to win a championship

how can you doubt he has a chance when you don't even know his ceiling? in the end it's not going to matter who joined his team, but how far they got with him leading. and chris bosh a superstar? that's laughable

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:44 PM
It JUST happened to durant. He was outed in the first round with out westy. let west and harden play on the same team as Melo they become instant contenders too. Durant never did anything with out great talent around him.
He was ousted in his 1st RD against the #1 seed Lakers who went on to the ship like 4 years ago. Dude was like 21. He never was ousted 3 YEARS IN A ROW.

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 12:45 PM
Honestly I sit here and listen to you guys hate on Carmelo, Chris paul, Durant for their playoff performances and it just dazzles me at how derrick rose is so undervalued on this website. His consistent and strong playoff performances are so impressive, yet he gets underrated. Lebron couldn't even carry his team to the championship with little help. Why do you guys hate on Carmelo so much. I mean it is a team sport. It's not like Carmelo is the only good player on the Knicks, he has help. Durant has help. Rose has help. Chris paul has a ton of help. And obviously Lebron has the most help. But I truly don't get why the blame is put on one player. They can't win a championship by themselves.

If you would have given Bron the same help that Rose or Melo had/has, they would have easily been a contender. If anything, these playoffs are showing how GREAT Thibs is, and hurting Rose.

justinnum1
05-19-2013, 12:45 PM
Honestly I sit here and listen to you guys hate on Carmelo, Chris paul, Durant for their playoff performances and it just dazzles me at how derrick rose is so undervalued on this website. His consistent and strong playoff performances are so impressive, yet he gets underrated. Lebron couldn't even carry his team to the championship with little help. Why do you guys hate on Carmelo so much. I mean it is a team sport. It's not like Carmelo is the only good player on the Knicks, he has help. Durant has help. Rose has help. Chris paul has a ton of help. And obviously Lebron has the most help. But I truly don't get why the blame is put on one player. They can't win a championship by themselves.

Rose choked mad hard in 2011. He shot like 10% in the 4th qtrs and missed a bunch of free throws late in games. He is right up there with melo when it comes to choking. Rose badly needs a 2nd option.

I think rose is a legit #1 whereas i think melo is a #2.

Lebron was a choker too in 2011, but he overcame that.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:48 PM
exactly this. I don't think Melo is a winner. He plays for himself over his team. He is out of this world talented, but just doesn't understand how to play team basketball at the end of the day. His style worked at Cuse, because its college ball, and someone as talented as Melo can literally take over games at will. But it doesn't work like that in the NBA. He never lets the game come to him, he forces his game over all other facets. Meaning you live and die with Melo. When the good times are a rollin', he takes over and you win. When the bad times come in, he isn't changing his game, and you lose.

The thing with Melo has always been, he is an elite TALENT, but is he an elite PLAYER?

I don't think so. And I don't like him or hate him. Totally indifferent, and enjoy watching him as a basketball fan. Just my evaluation on him.

I like your evaluation and reasoning. Only if you go back the guy you quoted and agreed with had a completely different evaluation.

I agree that Melo needs to adjust and allow the game to come to him i also agree that he is selfish to a fault. although other champions have had those problems as well. such as kobe bryant .. only he had incredible talent around him.

I also believe that if melo was playing with other super stars he would get further in the playoffs and maybe even win it all. but until he is in that position how can we determine if he is a winner or loser?


In any case. My point is has Melo ever had the team around him needed to contend?

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 12:48 PM
how can you doubt he has a chance when you don't even know his ceiling? in the end it's not going to matter who joined his team, but how far they got with him leading. and chris bosh a superstar? that's laughable

Yeah, and it isn't like Jordan didn't play with another Hall of Fame player for most of his career in Pippen or a ton of other very good players (Rodman, Kerr, etc.)

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:50 PM
He was ousted in his 1st RD against the #1 seed Lakers who went on to the ship like 4 years ago. Dude was like 21. He never was ousted 3 YEARS IN A ROW.

he also just got outed in round two just like Melo.. I'm sure the excuse is that westy was injured. which brings me back to the point of look at Melos team currently around him? why not consider this

mvb815
05-19-2013, 12:51 PM
I'm neither....I wouldn't want a selfish me first guy that is the type of guy you cannot win a title with.....what I mean is you put him on the Heat this year they don't win, the Lakers or Spurs of the recent past, the Bulls of the 90's...you do not win titles with someone like him.....unless its a team as stacked as the Olympic team then its just to much of a discrepency.....I'm neither lying or delusional but you are blindly loyal and unexcepting of views contrary to your own.


you're comparing him to jordan, bron, and kobe. these guys are among the best to play the game, melo is another superstar in the league. by not saying he's a number 1 option you're saying he isn't a top 30 player in the league right now, and that's ridiculous.

people of this forum need to realize there are other good players in the league that don't match up to elite status, but to deny their value is just dumb

D1JM
05-19-2013, 12:51 PM
how can you doubt he has a chance when you don't even know his ceiling? in the end it's not going to matter who joined his team, but how far they got with him leading. and chris bosh a superstar? that's laughable

chris bosh is underrated.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:52 PM
Yeah, and it isn't like Jordan didn't play with another Hall of Fame player for most of his career in Pippen or a ton of other very good players (Rodman, Kerr, etc.)

Exactly .. Also rodman is a hof player as well.

Plus he had grant, kukoc, Harper etc.

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 12:52 PM
In any case. My point is has Melo ever had the team around him needed to contend?

A few of the Denver teams should have been serious contenders and would have been if Melo was a more team-oriented player in my opinion. He got at least one of Iverson's best years and wasted it.

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 12:54 PM
Exactly .. Also rodman is a hof player as well.

Plus he had grant, kukoc, Harper etc.

Yeah, I thought Rodman might have been, but I wasn't sure. Point being of course that Jordan played on some really stacked teams and no one even acknowledges it.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 12:56 PM
A few of the Denver teams should have been serious contenders and would have been if Melo was a more team-oriented player in my opinion. He got at least one of Iverson's best years and wasted it.

And 2 of Billups best years, and Nene's best years, and a few of Camby and K-Mart's best years

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 12:58 PM
A few of the Denver teams should have been serious contenders and would have been if Melo was a more team-oriented player in my opinion. He got at least one of Iverson's best years and wasted it.

Add in Billups, Nene, Camby, and others, along with George Karl.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 12:59 PM
If you would have given Bron the same help that Rose or Melo had/has, they would have easily been a contender. If anything, these playoffs are showing how GREAT Thibs is, and hurting Rose.

wait what? Melo's best teams were in Denver in a much harder western conference at the time.

He had an older billups.. before that he had an older inverson who is probably even more selfish then melo. Nene? Birdman? Jr smith? This is a championship supporting cast to you? I disagree brother. good team, not a contender, specially not in the west at that time going up vs the spurs and lakers super teams.

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 12:59 PM
And 2 of Billups best years, and Nene's best years, and a few of Camby and K-Mart's best years

Yep, but it's easier to just ignore all of that and claim that he's never had good players around him so that he has some excuse for failing to achieve anything in the playoffs year after year.

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 12:59 PM
I like your evaluation and reasoning. Only if you go back the guy you quoted and agreed with had a completely different evaluation.

I agree that Melo needs to adjust and allow the game to come to him i also agree that he is selfish to a fault. although other champions have had those problems as well. such as kobe bryant .. only he had incredible talent around him.

I also believe that if melo was playing with other super stars he would get further in the playoffs and maybe even win it all. but until he is in that position how can we determine if he is a winner or loser?


In any case. My point is has Melo ever had the team around him needed to contend?

for an actual chip? I don't know. But for more than one push in the west, and one playoff series win out east?

YES

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:01 PM
Add in Billups, Nene, Camby, and others, along with George Karl.

Lol ya lets bet on that roster over pops and Duncan, Manu, Gino etc. or Phil and Kobe, pau, Bynum etc. c'mon hawk eye your better then this.

I get that Melo isn't your favourite player but lets not over play the talent he has played with. he has never been on what I call a super team. the lakers were a uper team. The celtics were a super team. The heat are a super team, the spurs were a super team, those are the teams that have been winning. It's what you need in the nba to win. We all know this by now

D1JM
05-19-2013, 01:02 PM
Yeah, and it isn't like Jordan didn't play with another Hall of Fame player for most of his career in Pippen or a ton of other very good players (Rodman, Kerr, etc.)


Exactly .. Also rodman is a hof player as well.

Plus he had grant, kukoc, Harper etc.

but they weren't considered top players at their position. ahead of rodman and grant you had malone, hakeem, barkley, ewing, alonzo, robinson, etc. how many PF's are better than bosh? bosh in most teams would be the #1 option.

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 01:03 PM
If you would have given Bron the same help that Rose or Melo had/has, they would have easily been a contender. If anything, these playoffs are showing how GREAT Thibs is, and hurting Rose.

LBJ's cast in CLE was much better than what Melo has now.

MO Williams before and with CLE was a much better, much more efficient all around player than JR ever was.

Jamison would have easily been NY's 2nd best player.

Hickson, Varejo, Shaq, & Z was a FAR superior front line than just Tyson and the 20 games NY got from Kmart.

People under estimate the team that LBJ had, they had consecutive 60 win seasons for a reason, even MIA hasn't done that.

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 01:03 PM
wait what? Melo's best teams were in Denver in a much harder western conference at the time.

He had an older billups.. before that he had an older inverson who is probably even more selfish then melo. Nene? Birdman? Jr smith? This is a championship supporting cast to you? I disagree brother. good team, not a contender, specially not in the west at that time going up vs the spurs and lakers super teams.

The west was certainly really difficult at the time, but those Denver teams should have done better than they did. Billups and Iverson may have been older, but they still were playing at a high level. Iverson had some of his most efficient years and a lot of assists there. And as others have said, Camby, Martin, and Nene all played very well then, too.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:04 PM
for an actual chip? I don't know. But for more than one push in the west, and one playoff series win out east?

YES

With out considering the competitors he faced ? I. Sorry but I disagree, the lakers and spurs were in there primes in those years and they were juggernauts. No one was coming out of the west but those two teams at that time or in those years

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:04 PM
for an actual chip? I don't know. But for more than one push in the west, and one playoff series win out east?

YES

With out considering the competitors he faced ? Sorry but I disagree, the lakers and spurs were in there primes in those years and they were juggernauts. No one was coming out of the west but those two teams at that time.

oak2455
05-19-2013, 01:05 PM
I think your talking about Joe Johnson ;)

that guy doesnt score , he just looks like he ate bad cheese

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 01:07 PM
Melo had DEN at 50+ wins year in and year out, he led an old, injury decimated Knicks team to 54 wins with JR as the 2nd guy.

the one year where he had a REALLY good cast in DEN they went to the ECF... but even then he didn't have another elite player with him.

Winning is not easy, LBJ even WITH Wade & Bosh didn't win in 2010.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:08 PM
A few of the Denver teams should have been serious contenders and would have been if Melo was a more team-oriented player in my opinion. He got at least one of Iverson's best years and wasted it.

Back this up please I'd love to know where you got that idea from. It's preposterous. the lakers and spurs were dynasties in the west at that time. Who was on Melos team that was gonna help him surpass those monsters? Old *** billups? Selfish and two years away from being removed from the league inverson? jr smith the chucker? Nene the finess big who's always injured? Birdman? Kmart?

ya they shoulda beat the spurs and lakers lmao

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 01:10 PM
that guy doesnt score , he just looks like he ate bad cheese

At least he doesn't look hungover :D

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 01:12 PM
Melo is far from a flawless player, but PSD does place enormously unrealistic expectations on him when you look at the players he has around him. And comparing him to LBJ & Durant, arguably the 2 top players in the game today, will make anyone look inferior.

oak2455
05-19-2013, 01:14 PM
At least he doesn't look hungover :D

drinking is soooooooooooooooooooooo much better than bad cheese:cheers:

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:15 PM
people will consider anything and everything as an excuse to defend their fav players and will use anything and everything to bash their least favourite players. This hurts the eyes of a poster who is indifferent. This has been proven to me time and time again in the nba forum.

and on that note we can close this thread it has served its purpose. Have a great long wknd kids.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 01:15 PM
Melo is far from a flawless player, but PSD does place enormously unrealistic expectations on him when you look at the players he has around him. And comparing him to LBJ & Durant, arguably the 2 top players in the game today, will make anyone look inferior.

when your considered a top-3 player you put yourself in this position. It doesn't help when you force your way to NYC and put the spot light on yourself like that.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:16 PM
Melo had DEN at 50+ wins year in and year out, he led an old, injury decimated Knicks team to 54 wins with JR as the 2nd guy.

the one year where he had a REALLY good cast in DEN they went to the ECF... but even then he didn't have another elite player with him.

Winning is not easy, LBJ even WITH Wade & Bosh didn't win in 2010.

Perfectly said! case and point. Backing up your claims. I like that. You must have capabilities others don't have around here lol .

Green_Monster
05-19-2013, 01:16 PM
He's not very efficient and doesn't pass enough.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:17 PM
when your considered a top-3 player you put yourself in this position. It doesn't help when you force your way to NYC and put the spot light on yourself like that.

I've never considered him to be that high. In fact up till this season psd had him outside the top ten

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 01:20 PM
when your considered a top-3 player you put yourself in this position. It doesn't help when you force your way to NYC and put the spot light on yourself like that.

Melo doesn't rank himself and he's never been viewed as a top 3 guy, have no idea where u are getting that from. Top 8 at best, most would have him top 10.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 01:21 PM
I've never considered him to be that high. In fact up till this season psd had him outside the top ten

Fact of the matter is he finished top-3 in the MVP voting this year and took a 1st place vote as well. The consensus was he was a top-3 player

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 01:22 PM
Melo doesn't rank himself and he's never been viewed as a top 3 guy, have no idea where u are getting that from. Top 8 at best, most would have him top 10.

He said he thinks he deserved the MVP vote he got instead of LeBron pretty sure thats saying he thinks he's a top-3 player.

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 01:22 PM
Back this up please I'd love to know where you got that idea from. It's preposterous. the lakers and spurs were dynasties in the west at that time. Who was on Melos team that was gonna help him surpass those monsters? Old *** billups? Selfish and two years away from being removed from the league inverson? jr smith the chucker? Nene the finess big who's always injured? Birdman? Kmart?

ya they shoulda beat the spurs and lakers lmao

Not saying that I expected them to beat the Lakers or Spurs, but they should have stood a chance and gotten past the first round more than they did (which could have been helped with better regular season performances, too).

You can hate on Billups and Iverson all you want, but just look up what they did. Billups was still giving 17 ppg and 5-6 apg while shooting 42% overall and 40% from 3 on top of his fantastic leadership and great defense. Iverson in 07-08 had 26.4 ppg, 7.1 apg, 2 spg, and had a 45.8 FG% (56.7 TS% and 48.8 eFG%). Those were great years that Melo wasted. Melo rolled over and died in an especially memorable 1st round series against the Lakers the one year. Never have I seen such a massive disparity in effort than watching Melo and Iverson in that series.

LayBraun
05-19-2013, 01:23 PM
Are you comparing Melos supporting cast to that of what Bron had in Cleveland?? Just stop

LayBraun
05-19-2013, 01:26 PM
By the way, you want to know why Melo has haters? Because he can't utilize the talent around him. He's what you call a chucker. When he's on, he's on. When he's off, he does nothing to help his team win games.

Great players help their teams win games when their offensive game is off. Melo doesn't do that.

JLynn943
05-19-2013, 01:26 PM
Perfectly said! case and point. Backing up your claims. I like that. You must have capabilities others don't have around here lol .

how the hell is that backing up anything? the only stat provided was that they won 50+ games. everything else was just descriptive. it just happened to agree with you is all. I'm not going to bother arguing with you beyond my last post (with actual evidence! :speechless:) if you're that stuck in your opinion that you think that that post was somehow substantive.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 01:27 PM
By the way, you want to know why Melo has haters? Because he can't utilize the talent around him. He's what you call a chucker. When he's on, he's on. When he's off, he does nothing to help his team win games.

Great players help their teams win games when their offensive game is off. Melo doesn't do that.

Exactly. He just keeps on chucking.

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 01:28 PM
With out considering the competitors he faced ? Sorry but I disagree, the lakers and spurs were in there primes in those years and they were juggernauts. No one was coming out of the west but those two teams at that time.

You can disagree all you want, but making it out of round 1 just once with the teams Melo had is embarrassing, and falls directly on his shoulders when you evaluate those rosters up and down.

kdspurman
05-19-2013, 01:33 PM
He was amazing in the regular season but he went completely ghost in the playoffs

Completely ghost? Sounds like a stretch

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:35 PM
how the hell is that backing up anything? the only stat provided was that they won 50+ games. everything else was just descriptive. it just happened to agree with you is all. I'm not going to bother arguing with you beyond my last post (with actual evidence! :speechless:) if you're that stuck in your opinion that you think that that post was somehow substantive.

Maybe you simply don't understand what a contender is . At that time the only true contenders in the west were the lakers and spurs.

I'm not hating on billups or iverson. But to pretend those guys were in their prime when playing with Melo is delusional to say the least. Those are the best players he ever got a chance to play with.

iversons last good season was with Melo. but you act like that's enough to beat a dynasty. Yes the spurs and lakers were that strong. that's how they won several rings each in that era. Delusional if you think Melos nuggets teams were contending at that time.

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 01:37 PM
The best pairing Melo had was when he was with Billups a good leader that actually could play. Also had Nene who had an actual offensive game as a big unlike the bigs he has now. George Karl is so much better than Woodson. Woodson is what he was last year an assistant coach.

YoungOne
05-19-2013, 01:38 PM
we dont hate melo, we just hate the fanboys who rate him as a top 5 player or anything similar stupid.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 01:39 PM
You can disagree all you want, but making it out of round 1 just once with the teams Melo had is embarrassing, and falls directly on his shoulders when you evaluate those rosters up and down.

please you act like he has had a Tmac career never getting out of the first round. He made it pretty far one yearin a very very strong wc

again your just going to ignore how good those teams were in the west at that time?

hmmm how far did pierce go with out kg and Allen ? Maybe he deserved as much hate as well..some of the reasoning in here can't even be defended. Your usually so articulate with your posts. But when it comes to a player u just don't like its simple and plain statements with no substance. weird and your a poster I respected. I will disagree all I want. Thank you for giving me the permission. Real coy of you

bucketss
05-19-2013, 01:42 PM
please explain your hate for Carmelo ... I don't get it.

The next best player on that team is amare who has been nothing but injury prone since Melo got to New York. Tyson chandler does not look like the same player he was in Dallas. The 2nd best scroring option on the Knicks is a very inefficient jr smith..

Melo just took his crappy team to the 2nd round, with out much help. His team in Denver was better then the team around him currently. they lost to a bigger and tougher team in the pacers. Nothing to be ashamed of..

Melo is a good player , top 10 for sure. But name me a player who won it all himself ? We all know lebron sure as hell couldn't do it.. We discovered that durant can't even get out of the first round with out westy.. so whats with the expectations on Melo? Why the double standard?

durant actually made it out the first round this year.

and also, melo only plays on one side of the court, hes a black hole and doesn't know when to stop shooting. mix that with his obnoxious homer fans i can see why people hate on him.

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 01:42 PM
For a guy that touches the ball as much as Melo, he should avg around 5 assists a game.

monzternipz12
05-19-2013, 01:44 PM
For a guy that touches the ball as much as Melo, he should avg around 5 assists a game.

What happened to you leaving PSD after the Bulls beat the Nets?

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 01:44 PM
durant actually made it out the first round this year.

and also, melo only plays on one side of the court, hes a black hole and doesn't know when to stop shooting. mix that with his obnoxious homer fans i can see why people hate on him.

yea well OKC was already up 3-0 when WB went down, after that they lost 2 straight and HOU very nearly won game 6 as well. If WB was out that whole series HOU likely wins.

bucketss
05-19-2013, 01:47 PM
i got called an idiot when i said this knicks team isn't better the the teams melo had in denver.

NYMetros
05-19-2013, 01:48 PM
They hate him cause he plays for NY.

bucketss
05-19-2013, 01:50 PM
yea well OKC was already up 3-0 when WB went down, after that they lost 2 straight and HOU very nearly won game 6 as well. If WB was out that whole series HOU likely wins.

idk about that, okc had to learn to play without westbrook on the fly. they would have still swept them if it wasn't for ibaka missing at point blank.

OceanSpray
05-19-2013, 01:55 PM
Melo struggled in the fourth quarter and had key turnovers that hurt the NYK. Shumpert brought them back and didn't get any shots at the fourth. Why is it that Melo continues to force shots when Shumpert was on fire? Melo isn't smart and doesn't understand how to play team ball. There's a reason why he's not winning. Don't even complain about his teammates.. James led his crappy Cavs team that was 5x worse than this squad.

justinnum1
05-19-2013, 01:57 PM
They hate him cause he plays for NY.

Yea, i'm sure thats the reason.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 01:58 PM
Yea, i'm sure thats the reason.

we're all sure thats the reason.

fingerbang
05-19-2013, 02:00 PM
The Knicks had a good year, Melo had a good year, they were never making it to the finals, it is what it is.

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 02:04 PM
please you act like he has had a Tmac career never getting out of the first round. He made it pretty far one yearin a very very strong wc

again your just going to ignore how good those teams were in the west at that time?

hmmm how far did pierce go with out kg and Allen ? Maybe he deserved as much hate as well..some of the reasoning in here can't even be defended. Your usually so articulate with your posts. But when it comes to a player u just don't like its simple and plain statements with no substance. weird and your a poster I respected. I will disagree all I want. Thank you for giving me the permission. Real coy of you

I am not ignoring how good the teams were. But to act like he didn't have a large amount of help is false. The point is, it WAS Melo's fault. He is not a star who makes anyone better, nor is a team player. Replace him with another top 10 player on those Denver teams, and I think they are even better.

Melo is the constant in all his teams problems. Despite having talent, and a great coach. Don't you see that?

Melo played with players that should have been the right mix, but despite that, he plays his game. And when the competition gets elite and sees great defenses (Indiana is the most recent example), that is a bad thing for his team, because it stops ball movement, stops players from moving, forces bad shots late in the clock, and hurts your defense, because when Melo starts to get frustrated, he ignores defense while trying to get his shot going.

Do you not see he is the constant? He had a really good roster for a few years in Denver. I am not neglecting the Spurs/Lakers, etc. What I am saying is, the Nuggets shouldn't have even HAD to see those teams early. They were more talented than a 6-8 seed. Melo was the problem, not the guy carrying a subpar team into the playoffs.

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 02:04 PM
we're all sure thats the reason.

maybe they dont like the fact that he gave his bag of weed to a teamate in 2003 so he wouldnt get in trouble, when he sucker punched a Knick player in 06, when he was part of no snitching and laughed about killing Larry Brown. The guy is a thug.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 02:08 PM
maybe they dont like the fact that he gave his bag of weed to a teamate in 2003 so he wouldnt get in trouble, when he sucker punched a Knick player in 06, when he was part of no snitching and laughed about killing Larry Brown. The guy is a thug.

wow, bringing up something TEN years ago. In his rookie year, even if true. How bitter are you?

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 02:10 PM
i got called an idiot when i said this knicks team isn't better the the teams melo had in denver.

But your not. You make good points. I'm speaking to the people who come here a scottch Melo but give everyone else in a similar situation a free pass. The double standard.

I have no problem with you saying that he needs to be more selfless, or that he can improve further as a defender, etc. because not one player cant improve in some area or another other then maybe lebron. What I have a problem with is the blind hate. Don't tell me he is a one dimensional player when he averages close to 7 rebounds per game.

A one dimensional player is Reggie Evans. He can only rebound. Kyle Korver who can only shoot threes, Jason kapono was another, Perkins who can only provide a post presence on d, these are one dimensional players.

To me when a team loses it falls on the team. Not one player. I can understand some blame being put on the leader. But not to the extent that psd has put on Carmelo. You look at the guys team and you come to the conclusion that, that team isn't good enough to contend plain and simple. not carmelo sucks, he can't take them there.

I'm sorry but who has taken a team equally as mediocre as today's Knicks to the finals?Ppl will say lebron. But to expect Melo to be as good as lebron says more about the poster then it does about melo

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 02:10 PM
wow, bringing up something TEN years ago. In his rookie year, even if true. How bitter are you?

should we forgive people for things they have done wrong? Sorry but its not as easy as that.

waveycrockett
05-19-2013, 02:12 PM
should we forgive people for things they have done wrong? Sorry but its not as easy as that.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 02:12 PM
should we forgive people for things they have done wrong? Sorry but its not as easy as that.

I know what kinda people hold on for decades. You dont have to be sorry to me dude (if that is your true gender :rolleyes:)

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 02:17 PM
maybe they dont like the fact that he gave his bag of weed to a teamate in 2003 so he wouldnt get in trouble, when he sucker punched a Knick player in 06, when he was part of no snitching and laughed about killing Larry Brown. The guy is a thug.

:laugh2: you don't know real thugs then. Real thugs pistol whip you, kidnap you, do a drive by on your mama house.. "on the road to riches and diamond rings, real ****** do real things"

Melo is just a ball player. was pretty immature at times, but a thug? Lol

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 02:18 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

waves you do have an awesome sig. I gotta give you credit there.

Tony_Starks
05-19-2013, 02:50 PM
I don't get the Melo hate either. His game has flaws but whose doesn't? Lebron used to settle for the jumper and choke in the clutch, Kobe used to not trust his teammates, J Kidd couldn't shoot to save his life, Dirk wouldn't rebound..... on and on. They made adjustments and got their chips.

I can see Melo doing the same thing, he's just paying his dues right now.

oak2455
05-19-2013, 03:16 PM
I don't get the Melo hate either. His game has flaws but whose doesn't? Lebron used to settle for the jumper and choke in the clutch, Kobe used to not trust his teammates, J Kidd couldn't shoot to save his life, Dirk wouldn't rebound..... on and on. They made adjustments and got their chips.

I can see Melo doing the same thing, he's just paying his dues right now.

it's just a few that troll , otherwise couldn't agree more

Sactown
05-19-2013, 03:32 PM
The Knicks didn't lose to a great tram tho... Indiana struggles to score 90 They also only had one all star as well and didn't have Granger.. Memo went Ghost it key games and deserves criticism... look at his asst to turn ratio and FG%

4milesperday
05-19-2013, 03:33 PM
Carmelo hater? There is nothing to hate about Carmelo, he's not a threat.

D-Leethal
05-19-2013, 03:33 PM
He's compared to and held to the same standard as guys he's not as good as. Same goes for the teams hes on. He's compared to LeBron and Durant and first class NBA stars when hes a second class star. His teams are compared to teams like Miami when his supporting cast isn't in the same stratosphere.

Wavey doesn't even hide his infatuation for the Knicks anymore.

Sactown
05-19-2013, 03:35 PM
He's compared to and held to the same standard as guys he's not as good as. Same goes for the teams hes on. He's compared to LeBron and Durant and first class NBA stars when hes a second class star. His teams are compared to teams like Miami when his supporting cast isn't in the same stratosphere.

Wavey doesn't even hide his infatuation for the Knicks anymore.

This has nothing to do with the Heat... they lost to the pacers a supposed lesser team because they went ghost
If anyone should be compared its him and PG

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 03:44 PM
I don't get the Melo hate either. His game has flaws but whose doesn't? Lebron used to settle for the jumper and choke in the clutch, Kobe used to not trust his teammates, J Kidd couldn't shoot to save his life, Dirk wouldn't rebound..... on and on. They made adjustments and got their chips.

I can see Melo doing the same thing, he's just paying his dues right now.

First off, why do people keep using the term "hate"?

Second, the players you mentioned DEVELOPED their weak spots. Melo is the same player today basically, as he was in year 2-3. Are we to expect in year 11 next season, that he will all of a sudden develop into a team player who is consistent night in and night out on both ends?

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 03:45 PM
He's compared to and held to the same standard as guys he's not as good as. Same goes for the teams hes on. He's compared to LeBron and Durant and first class NBA stars when hes a second class star. His teams are compared to teams like Miami when his supporting cast isn't in the same stratosphere.

Wavey doesn't even hide his infatuation for the Knicks anymore.

While I agree with you personally, the media, and many Knicks fans here and everywhere, will have you believe he DOES belong in the conversation with LeBron, Durant, Paul, and the real elites.

But I agree. You are basically setting yourself up for an interpreted bashfest if you start comparing Melo to the truly elite. It's not fair to him.

D-Leethal
05-19-2013, 03:50 PM
This has nothing to do with the Heat... they lost to the pacers a supposed lesser team because they went ghost
If anyone should be compared its him and PG

Knicks are dissected like they are the Heat, and they are not even close. That was my point. If Indiana lost you wouldn't here their team dissected like the Knicks are right now.

Knicks have obvious roster flaws that cause them to struggle with power teams. It was more than 'Melo going ghost'. Melo isn't good enough to NOT have a team capable of winning when he's off his game.

Scorers are going to struggle against elite defensive teams. Everyone remembers the double nickel game but don't even remember the playoff where MJ shot below 40% for entire playoff series vs the Knicks top defense. Knicks can't expect Melo to put the team on his back against defensive teams like Indiana, he needs a team capable of winning when hes shooting like crap. Kobe had that, MJ had that, they were able to win when they shot like crap, Knicks won't. I'm not saying Melo should be compared to MJ and Kobe so please save the nonsense. Just stating even the greatest shot like crap during playoff series, their teams were able to win anyway.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 03:51 PM
First off, why do people keep using the term "hate"?

Second, the players you mentioned DEVELOPED their weak spots. Melo is the same player today basically, as he was in year 2-3. Are we to expect in year 11 next season, that he will all of a sudden develop into a team player who is consistent night in and night out on both ends?

Because there was more then several threads made straight bashing the guy :confused:

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 03:58 PM
Because there was more then several threads made straight bashing the guy :confused:

meh, you can view a bash if you want, much of it is actual legit criticism. Besides, in order to be in the NBA forum, don't you have to weed through all the garbage? Every thread is a bash thread if you want to get technical....

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:00 PM
I am not ignoring how good the teams were. But to act like he didn't have a large amount of help is false. The point is, it WAS Melo's fault. He is not a star who makes anyone better, nor is a team player. Replace him with another top 10 player on those Denver teams, and I think they are even better.

Melo is the constant in all his teams problems. Despite having talent, and a great coach. Don't you see that?

Melo played with players that should have been the right mix, but despite that, he plays his game. And when the competition gets elite and sees great defenses (Indiana is the most recent example), that is a bad thing for his team, because it stops ball movement, stops players from moving, forces bad shots late in the clock, and hurts your defense, because when Melo starts to get frustrated, he ignores defense while trying to get his shot going.

Do you not see he is the constant? He had a really good roster for a few years in Denver. I am not neglecting the Spurs/Lakers, etc. What I am saying is, the Nuggets shouldn't have even HAD to see those teams early. They were more talented than a 6-8 seed. Melo was the problem, not the guy carrying a subpar team into the playoffs.

Ok so lets ignore how head lead teams to 50+ win seasons.
Lets also ignore the years he did go past the first round, and the one that he went far in a very strong wc
Lets also talk up his supporting cast even though we know they were inferior to the top teams in the west at that time.
Steve Nash (2time mvp) constantly was kicked out of the playoffs year after year in those same years with a stronger supporting cast in the same conference but doesn't get the same criticizm. Shouldn't the expectations be higher on a two time MVP?

Lets just focus on the years Melo wasn't able to pass the first round. Funny to me that this new improved Denver team (ranked as a higher seed mind you) were just eliminated in the first round once again. wouldn't the common denominator here be coach Karl?

I don't know any player that would be contending with jr smith as the 2nd best player on his team. So still I'm gonna disagree with you.

PhillyFaninLA
05-19-2013, 04:01 PM
meh, you can view a bash if you want, much of it is actual legit criticism. Besides, in order to be in the NBA forum, don't you have to weed through all the garbage? Every thread is a bash thread if you want to get technical....

Then site administration and NBA mods should do something about it....the other forums on this site aren't like that.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:07 PM
meh, you can view a bash if you want, much of it is actual legit criticism. Besides, in order to be in the NBA forum, don't you have to weed through all the garbage? Every thread is a bash thread if you want to get technical....

if your following the thread you would notice that I credit those who give constructive critisizm. This can honestly be done with any player. Name me the perfect player?

Notice how many Melo threads there are, also notice your comment about How much of it is legit critisizm. Clearly your bias to what's going on in the nba forum on this particular topic. if you thnk its a matter of fair critisizm then kudos to you for turning a blind eye.. You don't need to go in the threads. Click on nba forum and look at the amount of threads made to bash this one particular player. If you don't see it its cuz you don't wanna

how come there wasn't 12 threads made scorching durant ? Apparently he can't do **** with out Westbrook and harden. Double standars? Cuz Melo has never played with guys of that caliber in their prime..

and Melo ain't even as good as durant yet expectations on him are higher? I'm baffled by this.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:12 PM
Then site administration and NBA mods should do something about it....the other forums on this site aren't like that.

sure is. But they are human too.. And I imagine they do close a lot of ridiculous threads made in the nba forum lets not pretend like they don't.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:14 PM
meh, you can view a bash if you want, much of it is actual legit criticism. Besides, in order to be in the NBA forum, don't you have to weed through all the garbage? Every thread is a bash thread if you want to get technical....

there is a difference between hate and critizm. I can't even believe your pulling that card as if a lot of hate isn't spewed on psd about guys like Kobe and Melo. I'm just trying to show how ridiculous it is.

I just didn't think you would be on the other side of the fence on this. I'm not even a Melo fan, but I believe in evaluating fairly and using ALL of your knowledge. rather then just defending players you like and accepting the hate on players your not crazy about.

I have never seen a blast of threads going after one guy since lebron went to Miami.

Sactown
05-19-2013, 04:23 PM
there is a difference between hate and critizm. I can't even believe your pulling that card as if a lot of hate isn't spewed on psd about guys like Kobe and Melo. I'm just trying to show how ridiculous it is.

I just didn't think you would be on the other side of the fence on this. I'm not even a Melo fan, but I believe in evaluating fairly and using ALL of your knowledge. rather then just defending players you like and accepting the hate on players your not crazy about.

I have never seen a blast of threads going after one guy since lebron went to Miami.

Every player gets put on blast every once in awhile..

Nets fans are going crazy about this because they're trolls... ignore the trolls.. But let's not pretend like Melo didn't get outplayed by Paul George, and went MIA in most quarters..

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:25 PM
Every player gets put on blast every once in awhile..

Nets fans are going crazy about this because they're trolls... ignore the trolls.. But let's not pretend like Melo didn't get outplayed by Paul George, and went MIA in most quarters..

Paul George is a beast and is only going to get better. I have no problem with that statement, I agree
with you. That's not hate and that's not blasting, that is what I call truth.

Show me another player though, that gets blasted as much as Melo other then when lebron went to Miami? Maybe Kobe .. anyways I'm over this. the point was made.

Sactown
05-19-2013, 04:30 PM
Paul George is a beast and is only going to get better currently.I have no problem with that statement, I agree
with you.

Show me another player though, that gets blasted as much as Melo other then when lebron went to Miami? Maybe Kobe .. anyways I'm over this. the point was made.

Kobe and Wade get blasted every day, they're always compared and blasted, Lebron obviously is another one. Blake gets a lot of Heat, CP3 usually doesn't and Durant is so young he isn't going to get it for awhile. Rose is getting it for his injury status. Dwight has been getting hammered after his loss

Who deserves more?

KnickaBocka.44
05-19-2013, 04:30 PM
People want to talk about Melo's supporting casts being good enough in Denver but forget that every year he was missing at least one of the key contributors to his team due to injury.

2005-2006: Nene played 3 minutes all season. Reuben Patterson played only 30 games (was teams 3rd leading scorer, that says something in itself) and Voshon Lenard played only 12 games. There are 3 guys who would have been playing 20 minutes per game, if not for injury, gone. Result- First round exit to the Clippers


2006-2007: Kenyon Martin misses the whole season. Midseason blockbuster for Iverson happens, chaos insues. Result- Lose in first round to eventual Champion Spurs.

2007-2008: Nene played 16 games. Result- lose to Lakers in first round.

2008-2009: No major injuries. Result- Lose to Lakers in WCF

2009-2010: No Major injuries. Result- Lose to Jazz in first round

We all know what has happened to his supporting cast, injury-wise, since Melo has come to NY.

If you are going to argue that his supporting casts were decent, you also have to factor in the fact that they were almost always incomplete as well.

Sactown
05-19-2013, 04:34 PM
People want to talk about Melo's supporting casts being good enough in Denver but forget that every year he was missing at least one of the key contributors to his team due to injury.

2005-2006: Nene played 3 minutes all season. Reuben Patterson played only 30 games (was teams 3rd leading scorer, that says something in itself) and Voshon Lenard played only 12 games. There are 3 guys who would have been playing 20 minutes per game, if not for injury, gone. Result- First round exit to the Clippers


2006-2007: Kenyon Martin misses the whole season. Midseason blockbuster for Iverson happens, chaos insues. Result- Lose in first round to eventual Champion Spurs.

2007-2008: Nene played 16 games. Result- lose to Lakers in first round.

2008-2009: No major injuries. Result- Lose to Lakers in WCF

2009-2010: No Major injuries. Result- Lose to Jazz in first round

We all know what has happened to his supporting cast, injury-wise, since Melo has come to NY.

If you are going to argue that his supporting casts were decent, you also have to factor in the fact that they were almost always incomplete as well.

All teams face injuries.... it's part of the game, and isn't a good excuse.

You also chose to bold the WCF because it correlates to no significant injuries, but didn't bold then next one? Also his supporting cast was good enough this season to beat the pacers who HAD A SIGNIFICANT INJURY AND STILL WON

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:35 PM
Kobe and Wade get blasted every day, they're always compared and blasted, Lebron obviously is another one. Blake gets a lot of Heat, CP3 usually doesn't and Durant is so young he isn't going to get it for awhile. Rose is getting it for his injury status. Dwight has been getting hammered after his loss

Who deserves more?

see this is what I'm saying . Go in the nba forum and count the threads made TODAY about Melo. what Melo is not doing right, or that the Knicks made a mistake there's gotta be like 10 of them. Why because he couldn't take an injured plagued team to ecf's?

U wanna compare this hate to rose not playing due to him being cautious? Or compare this to d Howard getting his coach fired? Or compare it to lebron"decision" that's soooo not the same.

Sadds The Gr8
05-19-2013, 04:36 PM
I dont hate him I just don't think he's as good as his stans or the media thinks. This year he was a top 10 player but that's as far as I'll go.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:37 PM
All teams face injuries.... it's part of the game, and isn't a good excuse.

Wow lol ... Ok so the bulls lost to Miami. No excuse, that rose wasn't playing or that deng wasn't playing or that Noah was playing injured. Those are no excuses the bulls should have still won :laugh: unbelievable.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 04:40 PM
I dont hate him I just don't think he's as good as his stans or the media thinks.

I don't think he is either. Which is why the expectations on him are ridiculous. he just isn't on that level. But he is still a good player, and like any other player he def needs more help if the Knicks want to contend. They won't do it with an old broke down amare, a chucker in jr and Melo. That's not gonna get her done. Not to mention chandlers sub par performance in the playoffs. I think that whole team has to take some critisizm. If Melo took that team to the finals I would be shocked. Currently looking at that roster or lack there of I would say they over archived this season.

KnickaBocka.44
05-19-2013, 04:41 PM
All teams face injuries.... it's part of the game, and isn't a good excuse.

You also chose to bold the WCF because it correlates to no significant injuries, but didn't bold then next one? Also his supporting cast was good enough this season to beat the pacers who HAD A SIGNIFICANT INJURY AND STILL WON

They lost to an evenly matched Jazz team that season and I bolded it because it was a deep run in a very tough Conference. If you want to single out those 2 years then that at least shows that half the time when his supporting cast is healthy he is capable of leading a team past the first round, and deeper.

I'm not making excuses for him, I'm just putting the facts on the table. Name me a team that has made a deep run in the playoffs while missing key pieces.

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 04:46 PM
I really feel bad for Melo he has to take all the blame when he went to a team with 2 overpaid players thinking he would make another super team in the league and it back fired. He didnt have great talent in Denver but its better than NY. He lacks good talent around him this current Knicks team has a ton of guys that were on Denver except they are all aged. He has a guy making more than him that plays 20 games a year and another high paid player that only plays defense. He needs help.

Sactown
05-19-2013, 04:47 PM
Wow lol ... Ok so the bulls lost to Miami. No excuse, that rose wasn't playing or that deng wasn't playing or that Noah was playing injured. Those are no excuses the bulls should have still won :laugh: unbelievable.

They would of lost anyways, the injuries he posted are of role players, not half the team... It's expected that you'll lose at least 1 role player by the time the playoffs come around.. this season

Bulls (half the team)
Pacers (Granger)
Warriors (Curry suffered minor injuries, David Lee needs surgery)
Thunder (Westbrook)
Celtics (Rondo Sullinger)
Clippers (Blake Griffin)
Lakers (Kobe)
Spurs (Parker played through injuries)
Houston (Lin missed games in the playoffs)
Denver (Gallo)

that's 11 of 16 teams that I KNOW OF, And that's just playoffs, he brought up regular season stuff.. So no it's not an excuse

Sadds The Gr8
05-19-2013, 04:47 PM
I don't think he is either. Which is why the expectations on him are ridiculous. he just isn't on that level. But he is still a good player, and like any other player he def needs more help if the Knicks want to contend. They won't do it with an old broke down amare, a chucker in jr and Melo. That's not gonna get her done. Not to mention chandlers sub par performance in the playoffs. I think that whole team has to take some critisizm. If Melo took that team to the finals I would be shocked. Currently looking at that roster or lack there of I would say they over archived this season.

he gets criticism because he doesn't take his teams far and his production and efficiency drops in the playoffs. he's been outta the first round what...2/10 years? If his production didn't drop and he at least got outta the 1st round a good amount of times I don't think anyone would say anything...

SportsFanatic10
05-19-2013, 04:48 PM
So you hate him because he is a scorer? you dont like his rebounding for his position? Or are u blindly hating on the guy like a lot of others who are feeding in to this none sense?

you dont think he would go further with say maybe a d wade and chris bosh? or how bout if he had westy and harden ? with out those two durant didnt even get out of round 1 .. but melo in that situation is just a crappy one dimensional scorer ?.. my question is why the double standard?

in both those cases melo would no longer be the best player on his own team.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 04:49 PM
I really feel bad for Melo he has to take all the blame when he went to a team with 2 overpaid players thinking he would make another super team in the league and it back fired. He didnt have great talent in Denver but its better than NY. He lacks good talent around him this current Knicks team has a ton of guys that were on Denver except they are all aged. He has a guy making more than him that plays 20 games a year and another high paid player that only plays defense. He needs help.

Its the same with Brook Lopez. He needs help as well. He needs to improve as well. So no big deal.

D-Leethal
05-19-2013, 04:50 PM
Melo only lost one playoff series he was supposed to win in Denver, and only one playoff series he was supposed to win thus far in NY. When your bashing Melo's playoff record your basically bashing him for not winning as an underdog which is unfair.

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 04:51 PM
Deron atleast has 2 other scoring options in Brook and Joe, Melo has nobody that can help him.

D-Leethal
05-19-2013, 04:51 PM
I don't think there are 5 guys in this league capable of shouldering the load that Melo shouldered all year and carrying the roster Melo carried to 54 wins.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 04:53 PM
Deron atleast has 2 other scoring options in Brook and Joe, Melo has nobody that can help him.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

where was Joe in Game 7?

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 04:56 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

where was Joe in Game 7?

he was big and clutch in game 4 when he was trying to keep us from losing, 2 huge buckets. One bad game is not the series...and he had foot problems.

KnickaBocka.44
05-19-2013, 05:01 PM
he was big and clutch in game 4 when he was trying to keep us from losing, 2 huge buckets. One bad season is not the series...and he had foot problems.

Fixed.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 05:02 PM
he was big and clutch in game 4 when he was trying to keep us from losing, 2 huge buckets. One bad game is not the series...and he had foot problems.

this crap again :rolleyes: funny your guy has some BS foot problem waah waah waah all off season long like little *****es you and your girlfriend Waveycrockett. Tyson Chandler has a bulging disk issue and you have no problems with it.

BTW If Joe johnson cant come thru in game 7 dont bother using the word clutch at all and one bad game is the series SORRY ;)

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 05:08 PM
this crap again :rolleyes: funny your guy has some BS foot problem waah waah waah all off season long like little *****es you and your girlfriend Waveycrockett. Tyson Chandler has a bulging disk issue and you have no problems with it.

BTW If Joe johnson cant come thru in game 7 dont bother using the word clutch at all and one bad game is the series SORRY ;)

Tyson didnt show up once in the playoffs thats my thing. But like I said if he couldnt go he should have played. You can defend Tyson all you want he was never a first option guy that took his team anywhere. He will always be a role player. Joe took his team places.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 05:15 PM
Tyson didnt show up once in the playoffs thats my thing. But like I said if he couldnt go he should have played. You can defend Tyson all you want he was never a first option guy that took his team anywhere. He will always be a role player. Joe took his team places.

Thats your and your girlfriend's opinion. Just like you keep saying people's sig's are 4's :laugh: Pretty stupid but hey people are entitled to their opinions in this country.

TheNumber37
05-19-2013, 05:18 PM
Umm... He's actually a multi dimensional scorer, as he can score ANYWAY.

One dimensional scorer? see Nick Young.

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 05:22 PM
Thats your and your girlfriend's opinion. Just like you keep saying people's sig's are 4's :laugh: Pretty stupid but hey people are entitled to their opinions in this country.

You dont always have to defend your favorite teams players, are they your family? That is why its hard to take you seriously you will never admit when your players do wrong. You are a homer.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 05:23 PM
in both those cases melo would no longer be the best player on his own team.

not gonna argue with that. But are suggestingMelo would be unwilling to play with other talent ?? he showed he can, by playing along side a huge ego in Allan iverson

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 05:25 PM
Deron atleast has 2 other scoring options in Brook and Joe, Melo has nobody that can help him.

This only helps my argument right?

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 05:28 PM
there is a difference between hate and critizm. I can't even believe your pulling that card as if a lot of hate isn't spewed on psd about guys like Kobe and Melo. I'm just trying to show how ridiculous it is.

I don't disagree with that, I just don't get caught up in it. I ignore the trolls and idiots for the most part.


I just didn't think you would be on the other side of the fence on this. I'm not even a Melo fan, but I believe in evaluating fairly and using ALL of your knowledge. rather then just defending players you like and accepting the hate on players your not crazy about.

What side of the fence do you think I am on? I said he is a player I don't think you win with as a lead option. Melo is a me first type player. Supremely talented, but has a mental block that doesn't allow him to maximize his physical gifts.


I have never seen a blast of threads going after one guy since lebron went to Miami.

You can't honestly believe Melo even sniffs 1/100th of the bashing/hatred Lebron got dude. And if you do, you have a very, very short term memory.

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 05:28 PM
You dont always have to defend your favorite teams players, are they your family? That is why its hard to take you seriously you will never admit when your players do wrong. You are a homer.

Cmon DoMeFavors dont get pissed :shrug:. First you got angry at Hawkeye15 now you're getting angry at me. If your gonna insult other people's teams dont sit there in your bubble expecting posters not to smoke you back.

P.S. Dont think for a single moment anyone takes you seriously you little *****. ;)

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 05:29 PM
Melo only lost one playoff series he was supposed to win in Denver, and only one playoff series he was supposed to win thus far in NY. When your bashing Melo's playoff record your basically bashing him for not winning as an underdog which is unfair.

And my point continues to be, the Nuggets had the talent, if a real superstar was leading them, to be a much higher seed. Don't some of you see that? Melo IS the problem.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 05:33 PM
he gets criticism because he doesn't take his teams far and his production and efficiency drops in the playoffs. he's been outta the first round what...2/10 years? If his production didn't drop and he at least got outta the 1st round a good amount of times I don't think anyone would say anything...

saddy which year do you really believe that Melo had the supporting cast to beat LA? Or the spurs? The only series he really lost that you can critisize him for was vs the jazz which were a pretty dam good team at the time lead by Jerry Sloan.

If you look at his playoff averages they are pretty much on par with his season averages. obviously in a playoff series teams close in on him because he has no one to differ too.. that would effect any scorers %.

maybe I'm crazy but I don't think Carmelo is good enough to lead that Knicks team to the finals. I'd be shocked if he ever did. I don't even expect that of lebron but he did do it one year which is why he is lebron.

look at wade before he got Shaq. Look at wade before he got lebron and bosh? Was he taking his scrub team to the finals? At least Melo got far once in the west with denver and that's more then I can say about a lot of "star" players.

no ones getting to the finals with out a strong supporting cast.. I dunno why it's expected of him too.

DoMeFavors
05-19-2013, 05:34 PM
Woodson holds Knicks back aswell he is one of the worst coaches in the league

BigBlueCrew
05-19-2013, 05:42 PM
Woodson holds Knicks back aswell he is one of the worst coaches in the league

Is there anything else you wanna get out about the Knicks?.....

maybe Spike Lee bothers you?
the location of the Garden?

anything?

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 05:42 PM
And my point continues to be, the Nuggets had the talent, if a real superstar was leading them, to be a much higher seed. Don't some of you see that? Melo IS the problem.

no the nuggets did not have the talent to beat the lakers or spurs. Pleas explain to me where they did. We can compare rosters if you like by year. This is ridiculous for you to say Denver was good enough to beat those teams.

seeding is a result of your TEAMS record over an 82 game season. Not one guy. it makes a difference if your playing vs historically great teams or not. there are 29 other teams who couldn't go through those guys either. Lets count how many times Denver played vs those teams in the years they were in the playoffs.

If we're going to criticize wouldn't it be fair to criticize the team and the player based on the match up?i really never expected Denver to win and considered them favourites in any of their match ups.

D-Leethal
05-19-2013, 05:43 PM
And my point continues to be, the Nuggets had the talent, if a real superstar was leading them, to be a much higher seed. Don't some of you see that? Melo IS the problem.

IDK man, if Melo was in the East like LeBron was he would be getting top 3 seeds and going to the conference finals every year. The West was a different animal. He was winning 50+ games and getting 7 seeds. There was literally a year a 50 win team didn't even make the playoffs out West during that run. He would have been getting 2 seeds and playing the Washington Wizards like LeBron was instead of 7 seeds and playing the Spurs.

How much of a problem is he to continuously win 50+ games every year then and now? Problem of what? Nuggets had skilled defenders and great role players but they didn't have top flight talent besides Melo outside of the AI years, and we can all agree the AI-Melo duo was a very flawed pairing.

Based on George Karl's playoff resume you could easily argue HE is the problem there, hasn't seemed to change once Melo left.

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 05:49 PM
You can't honestly believe Melo even sniffs 1/100th of the bashing/hatred Lebron got dude. And if you do, you have a very, very short term memory.

not saying he is getting hated on like lebron, I said since lebron. Meaning from that point on. on psd it gets kinda out of hand .. I'm over it now. Your right ill ignore the trolls.

KnickaBocka.44
05-19-2013, 05:50 PM
You dont always have to defend your favorite teams players, are they your family? That is why its hard to take you seriously you will never admit when your players do wrong. You are a homer.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

KnickaBocka.44
05-19-2013, 05:55 PM
And my point continues to be, the Nuggets had the talent, if a real superstar was leading them, to be a much higher seed. Don't some of you see that? Melo IS the problem.

1 real superstar doesn't trump a dynastic team. The Spurs and Lakers were dynasties.

ChitownBears22
05-19-2013, 07:04 PM
I don't hate Melo, I hate idiots who overrate him. He is a scorer, that's it. Poor passer, mediocre defender, decent rebounder, not a leader, and the best number two option in the nba.

SportsFanatic10
05-19-2013, 07:09 PM
not gonna argue with that. But are suggestingMelo would be unwilling to play with other talent ?? he showed he can, by playing along side a huge ego in Allan iverson

i don't know the answer to that, but i'd say he probably wouldn't like playing with BETTER talent.

nycericanguy
05-19-2013, 07:18 PM
I don't hate Melo, I hate idiots who overrate him. He is a scorer, that's it. Poor passer, mediocre defender, decent rebounder, not a leader, and the best number two option in the nba.

#2 options don't lead their teams to 50+ wins year in and year out, #2 options don't win scoring titles, shoot 46% and get to the FT line close to 8x per game. Melo has as complete an offensive arsenal as almost any player... can shoot the 3, can post, good mid range game... and gets to the line.

#2 options are guys that are limited in some phase of their games but can still score, like Monta, who can score, but can't shoot the 3, and doesn't get to the FT line much.

sledge_mylez
05-19-2013, 07:25 PM
I dislike Melo because he is a punk. He sucker punched Collins back in 06 and didn't even stagger the dude.. then he proceeded to run away. I will never respect a man that does not stand and fight a battle he started.. Melo back peddled the length of the court to get away from Jarad Jefferies and Nate Robinson.

Besides the fact I don't respect him for that incident. He is an inefficient scorer. He had 8 assists in 6 games against the pacers. No truly ELITE player in this league averages less assists per game than Melo. Can the dude score?! Hell yes! But, the Knicks were the best this season when they were moving the ball. Melo is a black hole and doesn't deserve a pass. He is the definition of a volume scorer.

bucketss
05-19-2013, 07:38 PM
has anyone seen brklynknicks recently?

Sadds The Gr8
05-19-2013, 07:41 PM
saddy which year do you really believe that Melo had the supporting cast to beat LA? Or the spurs? The only series he really lost that you can critisize him for was vs the jazz which were a pretty dam good team at the time lead by Jerry Sloan.

If you look at his playoff averages they are pretty much on par with his season averages. obviously in a playoff series teams close in on him because he has no one to differ too.. that would effect any scorers %.

maybe I'm crazy but I don't think Carmelo is good enough to lead that Knicks team to the finals. I'd be shocked if he ever did. I don't even expect that of lebron but he did do it one year which is why he is lebron.

look at wade before he got Shaq. Look at wade before he got lebron and bosh? Was he taking his scrub team to the finals? At least Melo got far once in the west with denver and that's more then I can say about a lot of "star" players.

no ones getting to the finals with out a strong supporting cast.. I dunno why it's expected of him too.

06 he lost to the Clippers and they were the higher seed. Clips beat them easily in that series. And the Jazz series like you said, they could've won. You're exaggerating the quality of his teams. You're acting like he's had nothing but garbage but he's had some nice players to play with. Nothing spectacular, but still solid guys he should've been able to have more success with. I don't like the "he can't beat the Lakers/Spurs" excuse because nobody else got that excuse.

And his percentages fall off a cliff in the playoffs...he becomes way more inefficient.

Colts_4_life
05-19-2013, 07:45 PM
lol at Smith&Wesson knowing that they're homeless ny rappers.....I'm guessing you listen to boot camp click, ditc, pun, wu, tribe, jungle and etc.....However, can you just face the fact that Melo lost and call it a day.

D-Leethal
05-19-2013, 08:02 PM
06 he lost to the Clippers and they were the higher seed. Clips beat them easily in that series. And the Jazz series like you said, they could've won. You're exaggerating the quality of his teams. You're acting like he's had nothing but garbage but he's had some nice players to play with. Nothing spectacular, but still solid guys he should've been able to have more success with. I don't like the "he can't beat the Lakers/Spurs" excuse because nobody else got that excuse.

And his percentages fall off a cliff in the playoffs...he becomes way more inefficient.

That was the year Nene missed the entire season for his cancer and KMart got hurt in the playoffs and only played 2 games. Go check some of the guys that got heavy minutes during that playoff series. Clips won more games than the Nuggets that year so they were the better team regardless of Denver played in a ****** division and got the 3 seed. They only won 44 games that season, the team was in shambles all year.

You don't like the argument? What do you mean nobody else gets that excuse? I hear everybody get that excuse when they lose to different dynasty's.

arkanian215
05-19-2013, 08:17 PM
0

BklynKnicks3
05-19-2013, 08:31 PM
A man who almost beat pacers 1 on 5 in game 6 on the road. Only player who did anything was shump, 2nd best player in the nba and tru mvp of the league

VCaintdead17
05-19-2013, 08:34 PM
That was the year Nene missed the entire season for his cancer and KMart got hurt in the playoffs and only played 2 games. Go check some of the guys that got heavy minutes during that playoff series. Clips won more games than the Nuggets that year so they were the better team regardless of Denver played in a ****** division and got the 3 seed. They only won 44 games that season, the team was in shambles all year.

You don't like the argument? What do you mean nobody else gets that excuse? I hear everybody get that excuse when they lose to different dynasty's.


He should take pointers from Lance.

girlsluvBeyonce
05-19-2013, 08:42 PM
He be fine its melo we talking about

smith&wesson
05-19-2013, 09:41 PM
06 he lost to the Clippers and they were the higher seed. Clips beat them easily in that series. And the Jazz series like you said, they could've won. You're exaggerating the quality of his teams. You're acting like he's had nothing but garbage but he's had some nice players to play with. Nothing spectacular, but still solid guys he should've been able to have more success with. I don't like the "he can't beat the Lakers/Spurs" excuse because nobody else got that excuse.

And his percentages fall off a cliff in the playoffs...he becomes way more inefficient.

His teams were fine but Remember you could win 50 games in the west and still be an 8th seed which was the norm in the west at that time.

Like you said one year or two years the nuggets played vs teams they could beat. But the rest of the time the were outed by the lakers and spurs who each went on to win championships in those years. These were historically good teams.

My point is if your going to critisize a team and or players I think its fair to take in to consideration the match up they are going against.

if your second best scorer is jr smith its not hard for teams to close in on you in a playoff series. That would effect any scorers %.

bucketss
05-19-2013, 09:44 PM
A man who almost beat pacers 1 on 5 in game 6 on the road. Only player who did anything was shump, 2nd best player in the nba and tru mvp of the league

how many points did he have in the 4th?!?

Tony_Starks
05-19-2013, 09:52 PM
First off, why do people keep using the
term "hate"?

Second, the players you mentioned DEVELOPED their weak spots. Melo is the same player today basically, as he was in year 2-3. Are we to expect in year 11 next season, that he will all of a sudden develop into a team player who is consistent night in and night out on both ends?


How long did it take Lebron to develop a consistent post game and not settle for jumpers? Last year! That's what almost 9 years in?

I'm just saying Melo is not like miles away. If anything the criticism he takes this summer will probably make him come back better.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-19-2013, 10:04 PM
I'm a raptor fan. but I notice alot of hate on psd for the knicks and melo. it needs to be addressed.

in this league you have roles. Not everyone is lebron James and does everything. most players have roles. scorers, defensive stoppers, 3 point specialists, 6th men etc.

Never have I seen any one player win the big one with out other star caliber players. So I wanna know why dudes single out Carmelo for not being able to do it..

not really

broncofangene
05-19-2013, 10:17 PM
Ball stopper, complainer, doesn't pass, and more worried about being a tv star. I'm surprised he didn't shut it down after winning the scoring title.

Shkelqim
05-19-2013, 10:22 PM
I think he wants to win just has the wrong approach. It's like having the skills to be successful just unable to utilize them

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 10:35 PM
no the nuggets did not have the talent to beat the lakers or spurs. Pleas explain to me where they did. We can compare rosters if you like by year. This is ridiculous for you to say Denver was good enough to beat those teams.

seeding is a result of your TEAMS record over an 82 game season. Not one guy. it makes a difference if your playing vs historically great teams or not. there are 29 other teams who couldn't go through those guys either. Lets count how many times Denver played vs those teams in the years they were in the playoffs.

If we're going to criticize wouldn't it be fair to criticize the team and the player based on the match up?i really never expected Denver to win and considered them favourites in any of their match ups.

Where did I say they had the talent to beat the Spurs or Lakers? I said, they had the talent to avoid them early, yet underperformed, and their star was a major reason.

Question. Under what circumstance do you think Melo is a #1 option on a championship team?

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 10:37 PM
IDK man, if Melo was in the East like LeBron was he would be getting top 3 seeds and going to the conference finals every year. The West was a different animal. He was winning 50+ games and getting 7 seeds. There was literally a year a 50 win team didn't even make the playoffs out West during that run. He would have been getting 2 seeds and playing the Washington Wizards like LeBron was instead of 7 seeds and playing the Spurs.

How much of a problem is he to continuously win 50+ games every year then and now? Problem of what? Nuggets had skilled defenders and great role players but they didn't have top flight talent besides Melo outside of the AI years, and we can all agree the AI-Melo duo was a very flawed pairing.

Based on George Karl's playoff resume you could easily argue HE is the problem there, hasn't seemed to change once Melo left.

I disagree completely. Carmelo shows all the signs of being a superstar. He looks like it. Reputation fits. But the problem is, even when given talent, he is the one constant in his teams failures. Fact is, SO FAR (I will give him the benefit of the doubt that in year 11 he learns team ball), Carmelo Anthony is not a #1 option on a championship team, nor will he ever be.

That is my opinion. I don't think he is a winning type of player. Period.

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 10:39 PM
not saying he is getting hated on like lebron, I said since lebron. Meaning from that point on. on psd it gets kinda out of hand .. I'm over it now. Your right ill ignore the trolls.

Ok, I can agree with that to an extent, but do you not think a little of that has to do with the large number of NY fans that threw the Knicks down our throat going into both preseasons, and when they started so hot this year? Its pushback, whether you deem that right or wrong. For the record, LeBron went through more hate than any athlete I can remember.

And yeah dude, the only way to have any fun here is to avoid the idiots and the trolls. Now and then its fun to poke, but avoiding is the best option.

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 10:41 PM
I didn't think it was true but I looked it up. Melo kinda chokes in the playoffs. Every year except for 3 (so 3/10) his FG% in the playoffs was under 43% (minimum imo if you're going to be the go to guy on a playoff team, positions 1-3). He's a career 45.6% regular season shooter but that drops to 41.7% for his career. That's choking.

Also, just as a simple comparison, Joe Johnson shoots 44.2% overall in regular season play and his play dips in the playoffs as well. It's a pathetic 41.4%. He was also used as the primary scorer on most of those teams.

yes he does. It's because he can't feast on poor teams, and get into a hot groove where even good teams can't get in his way here and there. He sees elite defenses, who literally let him kill himself. If I am coaching Melo, its to make him get a tough catch out high, and force him to shoot long 2's, which he seems more than happy doing.

Hawkeye15
05-19-2013, 10:43 PM
How long did it take Lebron to develop a consistent post game and not settle for jumpers? Last year! That's what almost 9 years in?

I'm just saying Melo is not like miles away. If anything the criticism he takes this summer will probably make him come back better.

Last year? Nope. When do you think LeBron developed a jump shot?

Not far away? hahahaha. Let me know when Melo creates a shot for anyone but himself and guards 4 positions and shuts them down dude. And I won't even touch on shot selection, in which James takes an utter and complete dump on Melo.

setman2000
05-19-2013, 11:09 PM
2013 Playoffs: 40% FG 1.5 AST/G (WOW!) 6.5 REB/G

Any team that has Melo as it's best player will never win a title.

I LOVE being a hater!

koreancabbage
05-19-2013, 11:15 PM
i like Melo in the Olympics. that role fit him perfectly. pure scorer and doesn't have to worry about carrying a team.

Seems like Melo is destined to be a #2 to someone.

Beltrans Mole
05-19-2013, 11:23 PM
i like Melo in the Olympics. that role fit him perfectly. pure scorer and doesn't have to worry about carrying a team.

Seems like Melo is destined to be a #2 to someone.

How about giving Melo a consistent 2 scorer? Felton was our 2nd best offensive player....JR Smith wasn't consistent enough. If JR Smith played how he did in the reg. season, this would be a different series.

SouthSideRookie
05-20-2013, 01:27 AM
2013 Playoffs: 40% FG 1.5 AST/G (WOW!) 6.5 REB/G

Any team that has Melo as it's best player will never win a title.

I LOVE being a hater!
hey 8 total assists in the Pacers series :speechless:

I have no idea where the talk about Carmelo finally playing defense came from. He was terrible, no effort whatsoever. The Knicks' team defensive rotations as a whole were atrocious.

Btw for those saying Melo played great in game 6 and deserves no blame are completely ignoring the fact that he was a reason why they fell behind in the series in the first place.


How about giving Melo a consistent 2 scorer? Felton was our 2nd best offensive player....JR Smith wasn't consistent enough. If JR Smith played how he did in the reg. season, this would be a different series.

You Knick fans need to make up your minds. During the season all we kept hearing is how Woodson was COY, Grunwald was EOY, JR had finally figured it out, Melo's MVP season would carry over into the playoffs, the vet leadership of Kidd and Tyson would lead ya'll to the promise land etc.... Now we hear nothing but excuses for another early exit. Truth of the matter is the Knicks took advantage of a terrible conference to land a top seed(Rose Granger Bynum). No Rondo in the first round and no Granger for the Pacers. Hell IMO if Hill doesn't miss game 5 the series ends there.

No one can really use the excuse of Carmelo losing to the eventual champion anymore or going up against a tough conference. Pacers are a good team but if that is the team that stood in the way of you advancing then you weren't very good to begin with.

Many here tried telling your fanbase that a team led by Carmelo with JR as a second option would eventually crash and burn and fall way short. I don't know why it took some this long to realize that.

sammyvine
05-20-2013, 06:32 AM
what i like to know is why isnt cp3 getting called out?
he had a good team this year, jamal crawford, griffin, good becnh....yet he lost in the 1st round...

sammyvine
05-20-2013, 06:41 AM
While I agree with you personally, the media, and many Knicks fans here and everywhere, will have you believe he DOES belong in the conversation with LeBron, Durant, Paul, and the real elites.

But I agree. You are basically setting yourself up for an interpreted bashfest if you start comparing Melo to the truly elite. It's not fair to him.

what has paul done to be considered elite? his play off record is abysmal yet you glass over that. also the clippers team is pretty good so that can't be an excuse.

sammyvine
05-20-2013, 06:51 AM
Last year? Nope. When do you think LeBron developed a jump shot?

Not far away? hahahaha. Let me know when Melo creates a shot for anyone but himself and guards 4 positions and shuts them down dude. And I won't even touch on shot selection, in which James takes an utter and complete dump on Melo.

i agree with that lebron is a much smarter player. melo needs better teammates though...

you can bring in lebron, kobe, durant but they play with legit all stars...melo doesnt in new york bar chandler and i think he has regressed since winning in 2011, even if won Defensive player of the year,

jericho
05-20-2013, 08:10 AM
Except the 76ers made it out of the 1st RD last year while Melo couldn't. It's that kind of stuff that makes him an easy target.

When is the last time LeBron or Durant failed to get their team out of the 1st RD?

I know that by now somebody probably corrected you on this already........ But who was it that they faced in the first round again??? You have to conveniently forgot that they faced a bulls team with a D.Rose that got injured in the first game on the series no time for the bulls to adapt to play without him. That was a walk in the park for philly and you know that plus they had iggy the best perimiter defender the league has (no its not lebron)

nycericanguy
05-20-2013, 09:47 AM
No one can do it alone. Sports are funny sometimes, NY's 2nd and 3rd leading scorers went 4 for 22 in game 6. And while you have to credit IND's defense some, they missed a TON of open looks.

Aside from Shump's 3rd quarter spurt Melo literally had ZERO help all game.

If JR & Felton do even a half assed job and go 9 for 22 or so, we're looking at a game 7 at MSG... and NY is likely facing MIA in the ECF.

It is what is, no one outside of Melo really showed up for NY. Chandler disappeared, JR shot like 26% in the IND series. Felton who averaged 11ppg on 40% was really their 2nd best player, and that's saying something.

Dirk never gets all that praise if his teammates don't show up in 2010. Terry averaged 18ppg on 48%, and 44% from 3 that year in the playoffs, if JR does that this year NY is in the ECF and has a shot against MIA. Marion was 13 & 7 on 52%, Chandler was a 10 & 10 on 65% guy... His role players showed up in the playoffs... period.

For a guy like Melo to lead a team without a 2nd star, he needs his role players to well...play their roles and show up. NY will retool and bring in some more role players this summer... but i can't blame Melo for this series, JR & Chandler take the blame for me, those guys just didn't show up. Even Kidd, who had some of his best games against the elite teams this year, completely disappeared.

jericho
05-20-2013, 11:51 AM
They also beat the Heat game 1 without Rose, Deng, Noah being injured on the road on the night LBJ recieved his MVP. Apparently they aren't as bad as you seem to think.

lol You bring up the knicks/bulls regular season games but when they bring you the playoffs result with how that bulls team was you come up with this jajaja wow. Just please at least be consistent with your arguments. I hate Melo 2 i think he is a chucker and any team build around him will not win a title for the way that he plays (im also a knick fan) but man your argument is flawed like hell rite now you are just trolling instead of bringing something of value to the convo.

Heatcheck
05-20-2013, 12:22 PM
I think your talking about Joe Johnson ;)

both of them

blahblahyoutoo
05-20-2013, 01:26 PM
How about giving Melo a consistent 2 scorer? Felton was our 2nd best offensive player....JR Smith wasn't consistent enough. If JR Smith played how he did in the reg. season, this would be a different series.

blame it on the GM.
basically they reassembled the denver knicks. they did nothing out in the WC, what makes them think it will be successful in the EC? just because it's easier?
put a bunch of low talent, me-first type players that don't play defense together and you get the knicks.

benzni
05-20-2013, 01:28 PM
yawn. Forgot the Knicks forum expanded.

NYJ - NYY
05-20-2013, 01:30 PM
yawn. Forgot the Knicks forum expanded.

Don't like it then why comment, dick

Sactown
05-20-2013, 11:58 PM
blame it on the GM.
basically they reassembled the denver knicks. they did nothing out in the WC, what makes them think it will be successful in the EC? just because it's easier?
put a bunch of low talent, me-first type players that don't play defense together and you get the knicks.

I disagree They thought they had the right combination in seasoned vets and youngsters

Kidd and Chandler are gritty defensive team players who have won at the highest stage and great player coaches
Melo is the superstar and provides the offensive punch and creates for everyone else
JR. Smith is the gunslinger spark plug.
Shump is the energetic athletic wing defender
Amare is suppose to be the 2nd option
Novak is the 3pt specialist
K-Mart is a low post defender and season vet.

On paper it looks like a good team, you have the right amount of veterans to help guide the younger players, but the Knicks best shot IMO with this team was this year, and they fell apart in the 2nd round due to the lack of play from Melo and JR.

Tyson/Kmart/Kidd are all getting older and are probably hard to replace.. So idk...