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Mishmin
05-15-2013, 10:11 PM
From arguably the best draft class in history, many players' careers are now either over or winding down. There is one player whose career sits alone on top, but how would you rank the rest of the best players' careers? Your top 10 in order.

http://nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/1996.html

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-15-2013, 10:17 PM
Any list that doesn't have this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2t8Ba0nyXI) in first and this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbEQfmwh-fg) in second is wrong.

Realism aside...
1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Iverson
4. Allen
5. Can be a few different guys tbh

Jarvo
05-15-2013, 10:49 PM
Kobe
Iverson
Nash
Allen

Really don't care.

Mishmin
05-15-2013, 11:02 PM
Iverson over Nash? Maybe a higher pinnacle but Nash had a better career to me.

Jarvo
05-15-2013, 11:04 PM
Iverson over Nash? Maybe a higher pinnacle but Nash had a better career to me.

Iverson my fav player ever lol so I'm kind of bias but still think he did do better until you know...

Mishmin
05-15-2013, 11:29 PM
I'll get the ball rolling.

1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Iverson
4. Ray
5. Derek Fisher
6. Antoine Walker
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Jarmaine Oneal
9. Marcus Camby
10. Zydrunas

Honorable mention- Peja

Guys like Walker, Marbury, Oneal had all-star appearances, but I got to put Fishers rings over them.

Almost leaning toward Ray Allen's CAREER over Iverson's.

SeoulBeatz
05-15-2013, 11:40 PM
I'll get the ball rolling.

1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Iverson
4. Ray
5. Derek Fisher
6. Antoine Walker
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Jarmaine Oneal
9. Marcus Camby
10. Zydrunas

Honorable mention- Peja

Guys like Walker, Marbury, Oneal had all-star appearances, but I got to put Fishers rings over them.

Almost leaning toward Ray Allen's CAREER over Iverson's.

i can pretty much agree with this. seeing fisher that high kinda bothers me though.

luzxkm
05-15-2013, 11:49 PM
Maybe a higher pinnacle but Nash had a better career to me.http://www.gqtt.info/5j1.jpg

OaklandsFinest
05-16-2013, 12:00 AM
1. Kobe
2. Iverson
3. Ray Allen
4. Nash
5. Marbury
6. O'Neal
7. Walker
8. Rahim
9. Peja
10. Camby

mightybosstone
05-16-2013, 12:35 AM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Ray Allen
4. Allen Iverson
5. Peja Stojakovic
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Derek Fisher
8. Marcus Camby
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Antoine Walker

You guys aren't giving Peja nearly enough credit for the career he had. It's overshadowed in a draft with Allen and Nash, but Peja is one of the greatest, deadliest shooters in NBA history. His peak in Sacramento on those excellent early 2000s Kings teams was far better than guys like O'Neal, Marbury and Walker. I also have to include Fisher, who wasn't as good of an overall player as the three guys behind him, but made a name for himself as one of the greatest role players of all time. And I give Camby the edge over inefficient, off court cancers like Marbury and Walker because he was one of the best defensive centers of the last 20 years and was such a huge part of that New York team which shocked the world in 99.

bagwell368
05-16-2013, 06:48 AM
Iverson my fav player ever lol so I'm kind of bias but still think he did do better until you know...

I find that sad. Seriously.

BTW OP, this draft class is not arguably the best ever. 1984 blows it away:

Jordan
Hakeem
Stockton
Barkley
Thorpe/Willis/Robertson/Perkins

That's the best player ever, and 3 other guys in the top 15.

bagwell368
05-16-2013, 06:51 AM
And I give Camby the edge over inefficient, off court cancers like Marbury and Walker because he was one of the best defensive centers of the last 20 years and was such a huge part of that New York team which shocked the world in 99.

Right. Marbury is to be avoided at all costs. Walker is one of the most idiotic offensive players of all time.

PhillyFaninLA
05-16-2013, 09:20 AM
Any list that doesn't have this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2t8Ba0nyXI) in first and this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbEQfmwh-fg) in second is wrong.

Realism aside...
1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Iverson
4. Allen
5. Can be a few different guys tbh


This is about opinions not fact....opinions cannot be wrong, so someone else could have someone else 2, not sure anyone else would have someone different for 1 but still , this is about opinoins and not facts so don't be so smug and act like if you disagree with me you cannot be right.

mightybosstone
05-16-2013, 09:44 AM
I find that sad. Seriously.

BTW OP, this draft class is not arguably the best ever. 1984 blows it away:

Jordan
Hakeem
Stockton
Barkley
Thorpe/Willis/Robertson/Perkins

That's the best player ever, and 3 other guys in the top 15.

Agreed. I also think you have to credit the 2003 draft, although it's not close to the same discussion as 1984. The 2003 draft has four likely locks for the Hall of Fame, several other All-Star caliber players and a TON of quality rotational guys who are still in the league like Pietrus, Collison, Ridnow, Diaw, Outlaw, Delfino, Perkins, Barbosa, Blake, Bogans, Bonner and Korver. That's an insanely deep draft.

Chronz
05-16-2013, 12:28 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Ray Allen
4. Allen Iverson
5. Jermaine O'Neal
6. Peja Stojakovic
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Marcus Camby
9. Derek Fisher
10. Antoine Walker

todu82
05-16-2013, 12:41 PM
Top 5:

1) Kobe
2) Nash
3) Iverson
4) Allen
5) O'neal

mjt20mik
05-16-2013, 12:58 PM
I'll get the ball rolling.

1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Iverson
4. Ray
5. Derek Fisher
6. Antoine Walker
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Jarmaine Oneal
9. Marcus Camby
10. Zydrunas

Honorable mention- Peja

Guys like Walker, Marbury, Oneal had all-star appearances, but I got to put Fishers rings over them.

Almost leaning toward Ray Allen's CAREER over Iverson's.

This

Kashmir13579
05-16-2013, 12:58 PM
What a draft class that was..

DallasTrilla23
05-16-2013, 01:41 PM
1.Bryant
2. Nash
3. Iverson
4.Allen
5.O'Neal
6.Peja
7.Camby
8.Marbury
9.Fisher
10.Ilgauskas

rhd420
05-16-2013, 02:08 PM
here's another "RANK" thread

For consistency sake, there needs to be a basis and not just "opinion" and preference

Do you go 1. Championships, 2. Stats, 3. Wins, 4. Awards 5. Longevity then you would get it statistically consistent?

You can't keep these treads up on "well I saw him and eyeball" or "his attitude knocks his rank down", those are all opinions

BranWingss
05-16-2013, 04:33 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Allen Iverson
4. Ray Allen
5. Jermaine O'Neal
6. Peja Stojakovic
7. Marcus Camby
8. Derek Fisher
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Antoine Walker

odiz
05-16-2013, 04:54 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Ray Allen
4. Allen Iverson
5. Peja Stojakovic
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Derek Fisher
8. Marcus Camby
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Antoine Walker

You guys aren't giving Peja nearly enough credit for the career he had. It's overshadowed in a draft with Allen and Nash, but Peja is one of the greatest, deadliest shooters in NBA history. His peak in Sacramento on those excellent early 2000s Kings teams was far better than guys like O'Neal, Marbury and Walker. I also have to include Fisher, who wasn't as good of an overall player as the three guys behind him, but made a name for himself as one of the greatest role players of all time. And I give Camby the edge over inefficient, off court cancers like Marbury and Walker because he was one of the best defensive centers of the last 20 years and was such a huge part of that New York team which shocked the world in 99.

Definitely agree on Peja. He put up the numbers he did on genuine title contenders. Out of all the players from this draft only Iverson, Kobe and Peja can say they were the first scoring option on a true contender. His 2004 season was ridiculous: 24 points on 48% shooting while taking 7 3s, 1.9 TOs and 40 mins per game.

BenFrank
05-16-2013, 04:59 PM
Guess I'll take a stab at it

1 - Kobe Bryant
2 - Allen Iverson
3 - Steve Nash
4 - Ray Allen
5 - Derek Fisher ( Hate this guy )
6 - Marcus Camby
7 - Peja Stojakovic
8 - Stephon Marbury
9 - Jermaine O'Neal
0 - Kerry Kittles

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-16-2013, 05:49 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Ray Allen
4. Allen Iverson
5. Jermaine O'Neal
6. Peja Stojakovic
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Marcus Camby
9. Derek Fisher
10. Antoine Walker

We got ourselves a winner.

I find it crazy how Kobe outlasted most of these guys by multiple years, and he's still at it...I hope.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-16-2013, 06:38 PM
This is about opinions not fact....opinions cannot be wrong, so someone else could have someone else 2, not sure anyone else would have someone different for 1 but still , this is about opinoins and not facts so don't be so smug and act like if you disagree with me you cannot be right.

The fact that you thought that I was serious:laugh2:

Mr_Jones
05-16-2013, 06:58 PM
Fisher actually is up there, oddly enough.. There were a few guys that were solid for a few years in their career, but then completely fell off statistically. And they never accomplished anything after that.

JasonJohnHorn
05-16-2013, 08:26 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Ray Allen
4. Allen Iverson
5. Jermaine O'Neal
6. Peja Stojakovic
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Marcus Camby
9. Derek Fisher
10. Antoine Walker


The first four are spot on. That is how I would rank them. After that I don't think it matters much. For me personally, would have rather had the career Fisher had than any of the other guys on the list. Five rings is pretty impressive, even if you didn't have any All-Star game appearances, though I have a lot of respect for Camby.

KingPosey
05-16-2013, 08:54 PM
All you guys have Peja waaaaaay too low, but I've noticed for some it's so you can dick ride a player you like.

KingPosey
05-16-2013, 08:56 PM
This is about opinions not fact....opinions cannot be wrong, so someone else could have someone else 2, not sure anyone else would have someone different for 1 but still , this is about opinoins and not facts so don't be so smug and act like if you disagree with me you cannot be right.

I hate when people say that. An opinion can ABSOLUTELY be wrong, it's dumb to think otherwise.

b@llhog24
05-16-2013, 09:00 PM
Peja is mad underrated.

pd7631
05-16-2013, 09:23 PM
Fisher actually is up there, oddly enough.. There were a few guys that were solid for a few years in their career, but then completely fell off statistically. And they never accomplished anything after that.

No, he's really not. All he's done is ride the coattails of Shaq and Kobe his entire career. He's not a good distributor, he's not a good shooter, and he doesn't score. He belongs nowhere in the top 10 of this list, unless we're grading the best floppers and wide open corner 3 shooters.

1. Kobe
2. AI
3. Nash
4. Allen
5. Camby
6. O'Neal
7. Walker
8. Peja
9. Marbury
10. Big Z


Players that I'd put ahead of fisher....

Abdur-Rahim
Kittles
Malik Rose


I guess that'd put Fisher at 14.

b@llhog24
05-16-2013, 09:25 PM
No, he's really not. All he's done is ride the coattails of Shaq and Kobe his entire career. He's not a good distributor, he's not a good shooter, and he doesn't score. He belongs nowhere in the top 10 of this list, unless we're grading the best floppers and wide open corner 3 shooters.

1. Kobe
2. AI
3. Nash
4. Allen
5. Camby
6. O'Neal
7. Walker
8. Peja
9. Marbury
10. Big Z


Players that I'd put ahead of fisher....

Abdur-Rahim
Kittles
Malik Rose


I guess that'd put Fisher at 14.

Career

pd7631
05-16-2013, 09:31 PM
Career

He was never good, ever. I don't care how many years he played, he's still a stiff.

b@llhog24
05-16-2013, 09:41 PM
He was never good, ever. I don't care how many years he played, he's still a stiff.

No I think he sucks as well. Shoots I dislike the guy more than Kobe, but he's had a heck of a career accolades wise based on his talent level.

Chronz
05-16-2013, 09:47 PM
No, he's really not. All he's done is ride the coattails of Shaq and Kobe his entire career. He's not a good distributor, he's not a good shooter, and he doesn't score. He belongs nowhere in the top 10 of this list, unless we're grading the best floppers and wide open corner 3 shooters.

Players that I'd put ahead of fisher....

Abdur-Rahim
Kittles
Malik Rose


I guess that'd put Fisher at 14.

What about longevity and winning/intangibles?

There are also some of us who would much rather have a championship caliber role player above an immensely flawed franchise player. Shareef couldn't defend with any sort of respectability required from his position, thats a huge drawback when building a team.

pd7631
05-16-2013, 09:49 PM
No I think he sucks as well. Shoots I dislike the guy more than Kobe, but he's had a heck of a career accolades wise based on his talent level.

What accolades?

pd7631
05-16-2013, 09:55 PM
What about longevity and winning/intangibles?

There are also some of us who would much rather have a championship caliber role player above an immensely flawed franchise player. Shareef couldn't defend with any sort of respectability required from his position, thats a huge drawback when building a team.


And who did Abdur-Rahim have to help him achieve team success? He had no help. Fisher had Kobe/Shaq/Pau/Bynum...etc.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim would've been a more valuable role player on a quality team in his worst season, than Derek Fisher would've been in his best season.

You can't call Derek Fisher a better player or say he had a better career because he had the fortune of playing on stacked teams.

tredigs
05-16-2013, 10:11 PM
And who did Abdur-Rahim have to help him achieve team success? He had no help. Fisher had Kobe/Shaq/Pau/Bynum...etc.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim would've been a more valuable role player on a quality team in his worst season, than Derek Fisher would've been in his best season.

You can't call Derek Fisher a better player or say he had a better career because he had the fortune of playing on stacked teams.

6+ more years of longevity than Shareef - including being in the playoffs each of those seasons (4 as a starter, all as a 20+ mpg player) and winning 2 championships in that time is fairly significant one-up.

His leadership can't just go unnoticed, either. Being President of the Players Association for some time goes a way to further that. By virtually any measure his career was greater than Shareef's, despite not being the better individual player. Much of that was his luck in the draft class, but he made the most of it and outlasted Rahim significantly.

mightybosstone
05-17-2013, 01:22 AM
We got ourselves a winner.

I find it crazy how Kobe outlasted most of these guys by multiple years, and he's still at it...I hope.
Actually, I was just noticing how impressive it is that so many of these guys are still in the league and contributing for good basketball teams at their ages. And Kobe actually had a year or two on most of those guys since he skipped college altogether. Although he's clearly regressed the least of the players on this list and his longevity is nothing short of astounding.

Peja is mad underrated.
:nod: Anyone who places him lower than seventh on their list is extremely misinformed, and I personally think he's fifth. We're about to do another all-time re-draft, and I'm extremely intrigued to see where guys like him go, because I had him last time and he was incredibly valuable in my playoff run.

Bravo95
05-17-2013, 06:14 AM
Bryant
Nash
Iverson
Allen
Stojakovic
Camby
Marbury
O'Neal
Walker
Fisher

Bravo95
05-17-2013, 06:20 AM
Shareef couldn't defend with any sort of respectability required from his position, thats a huge drawback when building a team.
Hawks once had Shareef, Big Dog Robinson and Jason Terry. Some of the laziest defense you'd ever see. :pity:

MonroeFAN
05-17-2013, 09:11 AM
I fail to see how Steve Nash had a better career than Allen Iverson.

lol @ suggesting that Ray Allen was better as well.

Bryant
Iverson
Nash
Allen
O'Neal
Camby
Marbury
who cares

Patman
05-17-2013, 09:30 AM
:nod: Anyone who places him lower than seventh on their list is extremely misinformed, and I personally think he's fifth. We're about to do another all-time re-draft, and I'm extremely intrigued to see where guys like him go, because I had him last time and he was incredibly valuable in my playoff run.


It's so sad that his back gave out so early, the guy was an absolute beast in the 2004 season. 24/6/2 on 62 TS% 43% from 3PT while taking nearly 7 a game. Loved watching him, such a pure stroke and quick release and he was so good at creating space of the ball.

C_Mund
05-17-2013, 10:14 AM
I'm pretty surprised that people would put Marbury higher than JO on this list. Steph was definitely an elite talent and an explosive scorer but before O'Neal had his knees go out he was the best player on potentially the best team in the NBA.

3RDASYSTEM
05-17-2013, 10:14 AM
Iverson over Nash? Maybe a higher pinnacle but Nash had a better career to me.


This is how American sport watchers have been brainwashed, especially the non players

how can someone have a higher pinnacle and not be better and he did it for over a decade? and the other player was a backup turned starter and finally caught up or reached a certain level with the other player who was still playing at his highest pinnacle?

if NASH-KOBE were so good or great or greatest why were they backup guards for yrs? its really funny how the non players cant comprehend this basic bball standard set decades ago by the best players, they start rather straight out of highschool or JUCO or overseas

its funny how a backup player can be viewed differently when trying to elevate a certain player, NASH is the same player to me that was a backup to KIDD, and same with KOBE who was a backup to JONES

reason why I keep saying the same thing is because last I checked the truth always stays you know...the same

IVERSON was the best individual player in that draft, he went from carrying a G'TOWN avg talent team to a nba avg talent team for a decade plus and didn't pull off media drama type trade or get help rant, they did it to him with the practice playoff rant and the eventual trade that he never wanted to happen

no other player, including NASH-KOBE would have taken that 01' sixers squad to FINALS, they weren't individually good enough nor impact wise, NASH has won 2 league mvps and still no FINALS show with best record or top 3 in league

IVERSON would have won 60 games with that avg team he had in 01' but he sat out last 5(56 wins)

Swashcuff
05-17-2013, 10:24 AM
I fail to see how Steve Nash had a better career than Allen Iverson.

lol @ suggesting that Ray Allen was better as well.

Bryant
Iverson
Nash
Allen
O'Neal
Camby
Marbury
who cares

1 more MVP higher career winning % and ran some of th best defenses of all time. Love my dude A.I. but if someone ranks Nash ahead of he they're completely within their rights.

3RDASYSTEM
05-17-2013, 10:34 AM
What about longevity and winning/intangibles?

There are also some of us who would much rather have a championship caliber role player above an immensely flawed franchise player. Shareef couldn't defend with any sort of respectability required from his position, thats a huge drawback when building a team.

playing long has to due with health and staying alive right and also being a solid player at something on the court right?

so FISH was solid but he was not on SAR gamewise level at any time in his career

I always thought SAR was nice just not the hyped up type that he was coming out, too young but that's what a LA(didn't he got to CAL?) market will do for you, see KOBE for proof

Well if SAR couldn't defend then you couldn't run offense thru FISH for stretches of the game unless you count him getting wide open shots from the coaching of PHIL and the play of SHAQ then on to KOBE-PAU, you could easily run the O thru SAR allday

FISH has had the better(longer) career for what its worth, but he wasn't the better individual player via eye test

intangibles are from the coach, for proof check RILEY-PHIL-POP-BROWN-DALY resume,they instill it in the entire team, the leaders buy into it making the others follow no doubt

another overrated term over used by the non players

its all about game and impact which is displayed on hardwood

players who have played ball at any level know what im speaking about,easily

hugepatsfan
05-17-2013, 11:10 AM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Ray Allen
4. Allen Iverson
5. Jermaine O'Neal
6. Peja Stojakovic
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Marcus Camby
9. Derek Fisher
10. Antoine Walker

I'd switch Camby and Marbury. Maybe Walker over Fisher too. Other than that, great list.

PHX2daDEATH
05-17-2013, 11:16 AM
to me this draft class doesn't compare to 84's..the title count is 8 to 5 by the top 5 picks in each draft, but still its a close second.. Think Philly would pick Bryant if it had to do it all over again? How could 13 teams miss it seriously..i think back then, there was a fear of HS players because nobody had done it since Moses Malone. Kevin Garnett slipped to number 5 because he didn't go to college but didn't make a big rookie splash so there was still skepticism in 96'. Compare Iverson and Kobe's pedigrees and reputations at the time..the brawl incident, the fact that Kobe had a basketball in his hands from the time he was born..

1 Kobe (13)
2. Nash (15)
3. Iverson (1)
4. R. Allen (4)
5. D. Fisher (24)
6. M. Camby (2)
7. P. Stojakovic (14)
8. A. Walker (6)
9. S.Marbury (5)
10. J. O'Neal
11.Z Illgauskas
12. T.Delk
13. E.Dampier
14. K. Kittles
15. L. Wright.

Lucky.
05-17-2013, 01:09 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. Ray Allen
4. Allen Iverson
5. Peja Stojakovic
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Marcus Camby
8. Derek Fisher
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Antoine Walker

Chronz
05-17-2013, 02:40 PM
And who did Abdur-Rahim have to help him achieve team success? He had no help. Fisher had Kobe/Shaq/Pau/Bynum...etc.
Are you saying winning plays no factor at all? Like I said, some of think of this from a team building point of view. Shareef may have been the better individual, but this is a sport where 1 player influences the rest. I would rather have a championship caliber role player (like a Battier in his prime) over a flawed franchise guy.



Shareef Abdur-Rahim would've been a more valuable role player on a quality team in his worst season, than Derek Fisher would've been in his best season.
Maybe but its not really something thats set in stone, the value of a player like Shareef comes from his bulk scoring, you take that away and your "PF" is basically a guy who lacks any sort of interior toughness while being an iffy rebounder/defender all around. Thats not my idea of a role player I'd want around my stars, particularly with bigmen being so important to defense. If I had to envision Shareef contributing big on a winning team, it would be as a 6th man where his scoring can still be utilized and his lack of defense be less of a factor. Like an old McAdoo, only unlike Bob, Shareef wasn't as great at his peak. Im sure there are other ways you could build a contender with Shareef playing at a higher level than Fish, but I think it would be harder to do so.

For the sake of argument, can you construct a team where Shareef is the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best player while contending?


You can't call Derek Fisher a better player or say he had a better career because he had the fortune of playing on stacked teams.
I didn't, I said hes a player I would rather build a TEAM with, someone who (IMO) would have a greater impact on most championship caliber teams than Shareef ever could. Fish seals any leaks on a championship team, hes the guy you want to close.

Shareef is the guy you get if you want the Charlotte Bobcats to have a shot at the playoffs maybe (hopefully) some day.

Perhaps he could have been a solid 3rd guy and that potential is greater than Fish, but IMO, those teams are much harder to find and build around. Ideally you'd want Reef as a 6th man, which is what he became once he left Vancouver/Atlanta.

Chronz
05-17-2013, 03:19 PM
I'd switch Camby and Marbury. Maybe Walker over Fisher too. Other than that, great list.
You could prolly tell already but to get this out there anyways,

My stance on Number 1-2 option type guys vs peripheral players goes like this;

If as the number 1 option, he is an inefficient scorer/bad defender then its going to be harder to build a winner around him. The hope is that you can find a much better star to supplant him or bring out the best in him individually.
(This sorta happened with the Celtics, when Pierce eventually emerged as the superior player, only Walker didn't improve, he got worse over time)

So, if that efficiency problem isn't alleviated by him becoming a 2nd option, then you have to keep going down the totem pole until you have that player at his rightful spot in the hierarchy.

(Walker was either unwilling or unable to do so with Pierce alongside him, then struggled in Dallas despite being much more of an afterthought.)


The problem is, once you get to third option territory, the amount of "Touches" a guy like Walker gets can get pretty shallow, downright microscopic if you need him to be a 4th option or so.

And this is where the rest of his game has to be worth keeping, because you're essentially turning a big time scorer into more of a typical role player and if I just need someone to fill a role, Id much rather he be a guy fit for the job than an overqualified ninny.


Like Antoine Walker may be better suited to lead an anemic offense to moderate success. But Shane Battier is the kind of guy who can you playing at an elite efficiency level on both ends. D-Fish was like that at one point, he was literally the difference making glue for that 01 Lakers team. Their success with/out him on both ends was night and day. Antoine Walker doesn't strike me as a guy Id want as my 3rd option. How Miami won a ring with him is a testament to the teams overall depth and talent at the top. He could blow up every now and then, but I prefer consistency. James Posey meant more to the Heat than Walker did IMO, and thats kind of why I would have Battier/Fisher ahead of Walker/Shareef types.



That said, Walker is borderline for me, had his ups and downs, hate his stats but Im prolly downplaying his intangibles, always seemed like such a leader during the playoffs and Im not sure what to make of his defense. Bad reputation but I cant recall him being a totally liability during his prime. Foggy memory and I havent looked into his stats so Ill just give him the benefit of the doubt and peg him as average.




Off Topic
Its odd, how hard so many of these multifaceted players like Walker/Odom/Manning/Coleman are to rate. They leave the impression that they could have done more with those skills, or maybe I didn't fully appreciate those skills because they were wasted on the wrong teams.

In Walker's case, how do you ignore the Dallas fiasco? Championship caliber cast that he failed to mesh with, in fact straight destroyed their chemistry. They lost alot by taking in Walker.

Chronz
05-17-2013, 03:29 PM
playing long has to due with health and staying alive right and also being a solid player at something on the court right?
Of course, thats why it matters.


so FISH was solid but he was not on SAR gamewise level at any time in his career
That has nothing to do with LONGEVITY tho.


Well if SAR couldn't defend then you couldn't run offense thru FISH for stretches of the game unless you count him getting wide open shots from the coaching of PHIL and the play of SHAQ then on to KOBE-PAU, you could easily run the O thru SAR allday
Yea but thats the beauty of Fisher, he made a decent impact without having the ball run through him. If SAR gets less touches in a role similar to Fisher's, I dont think the team would do as well because you would be marginalizing a flawed player whos main value is his scoring.



FISH has had the better(longer) career for what its worth, but he wasn't the better individual player via eye test

If basketball were a 1 on 1 game, this would be all thats required. Its not tho


intangibles are from the coach, for proof check RILEY-PHIL-POP-BROWN-DALY resume,they instill it in the entire team, the leaders buy into it making the others follow no doubt
another overrated term over used by the non players

Your proof came up short, intangibles are still an individual quality, its not like having a good coach will somehow make or break your intangibles. If a player is bad defensively, is a bad passer/shooter, or something , there are repercussions that go beyond his own statline, these are known as intangibles.




its all about game and impact which is displayed on hardwood
Of course, what you have to learn is how to convince people that you know what it is you think you're watching.


players who have played ball at any level know what im speaking about,easily
Not convinced, you seem to struggle understanding things that are very basic NBA principles. You're completely ignorant when it comes to statistical findings, so from that starting point, I would NOT trust your eyes.

jerellh528
05-17-2013, 04:11 PM
Kobe



Nash
Iverson
Allen

Oneal
Stojakovic
Marbury
Walker

chitownredbulls
05-17-2013, 04:38 PM
I'll get the ball rolling.

1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Iverson
4. Ray
5. Derek Fisher
6. Antoine Walker
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Jarmaine Oneal
9. Marcus Camby
10. Zydrunas

Honorable mention- Peja

Guys like Walker, Marbury, Oneal had all-star appearances, but I got to put Fishers rings over them.

Almost leaning toward Ray Allen's CAREER over Iverson's.

Fisher is a "role" player....you cannot put him that high on the list....yeah he got rings but he wouldn't have if the number 1 guy on the list wasn't on his team.....he's been blessed to be in the right place at the right time but to put him that high on the list is ridiculous....don't get me wrong, he's a good defender n can hit open shots but sucks...he can only play with Kobe alongside backcourt because Kobe does everything else n all he needs to do is run to the corner n catch n shoot......he sucked on the warriors, jazz, and thunder....