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View Full Version : If the league rigged the lottery, who would they rig it for this year?



bholly
05-15-2013, 12:48 AM
Every year, no matter who moves up in the lottery, there's some storyline that fans (and particularly PSD-type fans) claim makes it 'completely obvious' that the lottery was rigged by the league to help whatever team it wants to help.

Last year it was helping the Hornets as part of a new ownership deal, in 2011 it was compensating the Cavs for losing LBJ (and the sick kid at the lottery thing) and helping the soon-relocating Nets, in 2010 it was helping the Wizards' new ownership (and the widow at the lottery thing), in 2008 and 2003 it was helping teams get hometown stars, etc.

My problem is that often these things only really seem to become completely obvious after the fact.

So this year I want people's beliefs about who the NBA will rig the lottery for before the lottery, which takes place next week.

Vote for the two teams that you think the league would be most likely to rig the lottery for, if it rigged the lottery.
You can vote for only one team if you like, but you can't vote for more than two. Really I don't think I can stop you, but if you vote for more than two you can't then claim you were right if your team moves up.

Update to clarify for people who don't believe the lottery is rigged: the question is a hypothetical in which the league rigs the lottery - so even if you don't believe they actually do rig it, you should be pretending they do and deciding which teams are the most likely to have it rigged for them (ie have the rigged storyline or deal or whatever that is most likely to influence the league), not just voting for whoever you think is most likely to win based on the non-rigged lottery odds.


To get you started, here are some possible storylines for each team. Note that I don't believe these myself, and don't want to argue about them, they're just the typical sort of 'rigged' storylines.
Feel free to put forward your own storylines, too, because these were just off the top of my head and I'm certain I would've missed some.

Orlando Magic
Compensation for giving up Dwight to the NBA's glamour team.

Charlotte Bobcats
High pick to help MJ as owner, especially with likely rebranding coming up.
Never won the lottery despite many awful records.
Possibly make the franchise more valuable for future relocation if Sacto falls through.

Cleveland Cavaliers
More compensation for LBJ, trying to build around Kyrie's star and help storyline of getting LBJ back.

Phoenix Suns
Compensation for Nash.
Compensation for missing LAL pick when NBA put LAL in the playoffs.

New Orleans Pelicans
New ownership deal, previously owned by league, compensation for CP3, help with rebranding.

Sacramento Kings
Part of possible upcoming relocation/ownership deals.
Never won the lottery despite many bad records.

Detroit Pistons
New ownership, historically big team.

Washington Wizards
New ownership, help build around Wall's star.
Possibility of (college) home-town Porter.

Minnesota Timberwolves
Never won a lottery despite many bad records, perception of being rigged against.

Portland Trail Blazers (goes to Charlotte if drops out of top 12)
Compensation for injuries (Oden, Roy, etc).

Philadelphia 76ers
New ownership, historically big team, compensation for Bynum and facilitating Dwight trade.

Toronto Raptors (goes to OKC if not in top 3)
Keep pick from OKC, part of Bosh compensation.
Possibility of home-town Bennett.
Relatively big market.

Dallas Mavericks
Help big market and big-money revenue-sharing luxury-tax-happy owner with rebuild.

Utah Jazz
Compensation for sending Deron to relocating Nets, and for missing playoffs to LAL.

Guppyfighter
05-15-2013, 12:53 AM
No matter what, it's a conspiracy. Unless the Bobcats win. No one wants the Bobcats to win.

Plague
05-15-2013, 12:55 AM
All the conspiracy theorists thought New Orleans would get the #1 pick last year and they did! I don't think they would give it to them 2 seasons in a row.

If I was too pick a conspiracy I will pick Sacramento only if the Maloofs trade to the local Sacramento group before the lottery draw. No way does the NBA give it to a Maloof owned team.

mrblisterdundee
05-15-2013, 01:25 AM
They should rig it for Portland. We promise to pick a player with knee problems ;)

Auseranami
05-15-2013, 01:33 AM
I feel like they'd give the raptors the 4th pick so it goes to the thunder

bholly
05-15-2013, 01:47 AM
I feel like they'd give the raptors the 4th pick so it goes to the thunder

Raptors can't get 4th. You either move up to 1, 2, 3, or you stay where you are or slide up to 3 spots (if teams behind you move up).

Dade County
05-15-2013, 01:48 AM
Next year it's going to Orlando.

Kyben36
05-15-2013, 01:59 AM
for me I hope to see Sacramento win, posiblity of a sale and then top pick rasing the price would be really interesting.

mdm692
05-15-2013, 02:11 AM
If things go like they have been the past couple years(Cavs and Hornets getting #1 overall after losing LBJ and CP3) then the top 3 picks this year will be

1 Orlando
2 Phoenix
3 Philadelphia

mdm692
05-15-2013, 02:12 AM
They should rig it for Portland. We promise to pick a player with knee problems ;)

With the horrible medical staff they have Nerlens Noel is their guy xD.

sunsfan88
05-15-2013, 03:12 AM
Even though I'm a Suns fan, I wouldn't be mad if the Bobcats won it. They deserve it considering that they have been crappy for so long and yet have never got the #1 overall pick in their franchise history.

shen
05-15-2013, 01:59 PM
Stern wants Kings to stay in Seattle and if Owners vote that way Stern will give Kings #1 pick.

shen
05-15-2013, 01:59 PM
With the horrible medical staff they have Nerlens Noel is their guy xD.

Olshey kicked the med staff to the curb and is updating everything. If only we had him a couple years ago:(

bleedprple&gold
05-15-2013, 02:08 PM
Great thread! Just goes to show that you can make-up a story line for whoever you want as to why they got the number 1 pick. Shut up the conspiracists before they even start!

Having said that I could see Orlando (because they have the best chance more than anything else) following the trend of Cleveland getting the number 1 pick after Lebron left, and Hornets getting the number 1 pick after CP3 left (but I don't necessarily think it was rigged to come out like that).

But then again if they would just televise the damn picks then we could know for sure that it wasn't rigged. The fact that they are unwilling to do that, and all we see is an envelope come out of room where they could be doing God knows what in there does make me question the whole process.

Hawkeye15
05-15-2013, 02:14 PM
No matter what, it's a conspiracy. Unless the Bobcats win. No one wants the Bobcats to win.

or the Wolves..

LongIslandIcedZ
05-15-2013, 02:14 PM
I dont necessarily believe its rigged, but if Orlando or Sacramento win it, I would listen to the argument.

mdm692
05-15-2013, 02:18 PM
or the Wolves..
I want the Wolves to win next year if that means anything to you :).

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2013, 02:36 PM
Next year it's going to Orlando.

If Orlando wins this year, it will only add to the fact that the NBA is rigged at times.

tredigs
05-15-2013, 02:47 PM
I like this thread idea, but an option for, "I don't believe the NBA is rigged" would offset those who are just picking the Magic because they technically have the highest odds of winning.

futureman
05-15-2013, 02:50 PM
The Kings haven't been sold yet and the league has an extensive history of giving teams who haven't been sold the 1st pick. New Orleans and Washington. But they can go with the team that lost the biggest star like they have a solid history of doing also. Cleveland being the most recent one.

Whoever thinks the draft isn't rigged needs to wake up.

Snakeyestx
05-15-2013, 02:52 PM
*IF* ?

Sacramento... just waiting for the confirmation of the Seattle move to cement that assumption.

Here's a more viable IF for ya.

If they actually televised the lottery drawing, people would question it less. Last year was an absolute joke when they showed the room, the balls, and the machine, before the drawing but the drawing was untelevised in itself.

tredigs
05-15-2013, 03:12 PM
*IF* ?

Sacramento... just waiting for the confirmation of the Seattle move to cement that assumption.

Here's a more viable IF for ya.

If they actually televised the lottery drawing, people would question it less. Last year was an absolute joke when they showed the room, the balls, and the machine, before the drawing but the drawing was untelevised in itself.

Well, every team involved has a representative there in the room. They also have auditors and a couple random media members from various organizations that they change every year.

The reason it's not televised is because the draft is a highly anticipated event that would lose the majority of its muster if they aired the prolonged and boring ping pong drawing. Essentially, they'd lose ratings and it would be boring. The credibility is very clearly obvious to anyone who actually spends 3 hours studying the probability in the draft format and its reasoning outside of Youtube conspiracy videos.


Here's a primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery


1990–present: Weighted lottery system

In 1990, the NBA changed the format of the lottery to give the team with the worst record the best chance of landing the first pick. For the 11 non-playoff teams that season, the team with the worst record would have 11 chances (out of 66) to obtain the first pick, the second worst would have 10 chances, and so on. Similarly to the previous system, this weighted lottery system was also used only to determine the first three picks, while the rest of the teams selected in reverse order of their win-loss records.
Despite the weighted odds, the Orlando Magic managed to win the lottery in 1993 with only 1 chance to obtain the first pick as they were the best non-playoff team in the previous season. In October 1993, the NBA modified the lottery system to give the team with the worst record a higher chance to win the draft lottery and to decrease the better teams' chances to win. The new system increased the chances of the worst team obtaining the first pick in the draft from 16.7 percent to 25 percent, while decreasing the chances of the best non-playoff team from 1.5 percent to 0.5 percent.
In the new system, 14 numbered table tennis balls were used. Then, a four-digit combination from the 14 balls were drawn to determine the lottery winner. Prior to the draft, the NBA assigned 1000 possible combinations to the non-playoff teams. The process was then repeated to determine the second and third pick.[1] The table below shows the lottery chances and the probabilities for each team to win the first pick in the weighted lottery system in 1993 and 1994 Draft.

Kashmir13579
05-15-2013, 03:15 PM
It is rigged..

I'm pretty sure of it..

Chitownhero1992
05-15-2013, 03:26 PM
It'll go to the Magic...look in the past Cavs lose LBJ get Kyrie, Hornets lose Paul get Davis...it'll go to the Magic to get Noel and build for their future

Hawkeye15
05-15-2013, 03:33 PM
I want the Wolves to win next year if that means anything to you :).

in the Wiggins draft? I would love the Wolves to win that draft.

ManRam
05-15-2013, 03:37 PM
i get why some people believe in ref conspiracies.

but the draft is essentially 100% rig-proof NOW. it has to be one of the more prevalent conspiracy theories out there that is based in exactly zero proof. most have little to no proof, but the only evidence there is for the current format is "OMG the Bulls got Rose". the way it's set up is essentially rig-proof.

matt800
05-15-2013, 03:38 PM
I think the Kings will pick higher than they are projected to be. Probably top 3. I wouldn't be surprised to see Portland get a higher pick than projected too, or at least luck out with a "steal." The way Lillard was hyped all year, I wouldn't be surprised to see the league give them another good player to make Lillard and Portland more marketable. Also could be seen as compensation for the years of injuries, and major talent lost to them.

mdm692
05-15-2013, 04:09 PM
in the Wiggins draft? I would love the Wolves to win that draft.

No. In the regular season so we can have that Minny pick :p.

topdog
05-15-2013, 04:10 PM
I'm a conspiracy theorist who picked NOLA to win it last year (and Cleveland the year before). As I said then, a lot of these proposed "every lottery team has a reason for it to be 'rigged' for them" are just silly and this year there is no answer just random chance.

JoeBlessU
05-15-2013, 04:14 PM
i get why some people believe in ref conspiracies.

but the draft is essentially 100% rig-proof NOW. it has to be one of the more prevalent conspiracy theories out there that is based in exactly zero proof. most have little to no proof, but the only evidence there is for the current format is "OMG the Bulls got Rose". the way it's set up is essentially rig-proof.

How is it rig-proof now? ur saying there is no evidence to suggest it is other than derrick rose..

-How about Kyrie irving..2.8% chance of winning year after Lebron leaves, they win it.
-Lebron to his hometown cavaliers..You can say they had the highest % to win it at 22.5% but there was a 77.5% they didnt land him, of course they did
-D-Rose as u mentioned..1.7% chance of landing him

Those are just a few examples but to say it is rig proof is naive and exactly what david stern wants people to think. I do not think the draft is rigged every year, more rigged when a cant miss prospect needs to go to a market that is stalling..ie lebron, d-rose, Kyrie, Yao, anthony davis etc..

urban85disciple
05-15-2013, 04:25 PM
i get why some people believe in ref conspiracies.

but the draft is essentially 100% rig-proof NOW. it has to be one of the more prevalent conspiracy theories out there that is based in exactly zero proof. most have little to no proof, but the only evidence there is for the current format is "OMG the Bulls got Rose". the way it's set up is essentially rig-proof.

How? How is a lottery that's run by the NBA, not televised in anyway, and overseen by those connected with the NBA 100% rig-proof? That's like saying the government is 100% honest.

Anyway, my two picks are the Kings and Sixers. You really can't put Magic, Bobcats, and Cavs up there because they favorites to win it anyway. How is it a conspiracy if one of the top-favored teams win a lottery that's designed for them to win it already?? Otherwise, I would've chose SAC and ORL.

The Kings will most likely win a top-3 selection to facilitate a purchase. The NBA desperately wants the Maloofs out the league and could do this to make it a more attractive purchase. That's my pick.

The Sixers, on the other hand, are a top-5 market that desperately needs a superstar. This isn't the draft for that but I can see the new owners being compensated for the Bynum situation. There's a ton of potential revenue in Philly that's not being realized because of a bad team.

The other conspiracies just don't make sense. NO and CLE were already taken care of; there's absolutely no reason to rig it for PHX, ORL, CHA, WAS, DET, or MIN; and finally, I'm would put cash $$$ on Toronto winning the Wiggins draft next year. The NBA desperately needs him in Canada much more than anyplace else. They only need to miss the playoffs.

king4day
05-15-2013, 04:26 PM
i get why some people believe in ref conspiracies.

but the draft is essentially 100% rig-proof NOW. it has to be one of the more prevalent conspiracy theories out there that is based in exactly zero proof. most have little to no proof, but the only evidence there is for the current format is "OMG the Bulls got Rose". the way it's set up is essentially rig-proof.

While true, they really do need to air it live in some way. Or at the very least, air the drawings afterwards (even though it could lead to tape editing).

king4day
05-15-2013, 04:29 PM
How is it rig-proof now? ur saying there is no evidence to suggest it is other than derrick rose..

-How about Kyrie irving..2.8% chance of winning year after Lebron leaves, they win it.
-Lebron to his hometown cavaliers..You can say they had the highest % to win it at 22.5% but there was a 77.5% they didnt land him, of course they did
-D-Rose as u mentioned..1.7% chance of landing him

Those are just a few examples but to say it is rig proof is naive and exactly what david stern wants people to think. I do not think the draft is rigged every year, more rigged when a cant miss prospect needs to go to a market that is stalling..ie lebron, d-rose, Kyrie, Yao, anthony davis etc..

Don't forget Anthony Davis and the Hornets to entice the new buyer.

king4day
05-15-2013, 04:32 PM
I picked Charlotte. If the lottery is in fact rigged, then it's important to get the weak attendance teams some help. Charlotte should/coulda had it last year. They can't have another year where they get another low player that is hit or miss. They need at least a top 2 pick this time around.

I don't buy that the Cavs or Hornets get it simply because they have their franchise players now.
Realistically, the Suns or Raptors, along with Charlotte and Orlando would be my bet. None of those teams have a player to truly build around.

As a Suns fan, I'd rather wait a year and hope to get a high pick then. We've never seen a team win the lottery back to back years.

urban85disciple
05-15-2013, 04:36 PM
I do think its hilarious that Charlotte never wins the first pick; 2005 draft was sad. Could've had Paul or Deron but had to settle for Felton at #5. Could've had Bynum (instead of Felton) or Granger but took Sean May.

MagicBucsSox
05-15-2013, 04:39 PM
Next year it's going to Orlando.

I'm pray

urban85disciple
05-15-2013, 04:41 PM
I picked Charlotte. If the lottery is in fact rigged, then it's important to get the weak attendance teams some help. Charlotte should/coulda had it last year. They can't have another year where they get another low player that is hit or miss. They need at least a top 2 pick this time around.

I don't buy that the Cavs or Hornets get it simply because they have their franchise players now.
Realistically, the Suns or Raptors, along with Charlotte and Orlando would be my bet. None of those teams have a player to truly build around.

As a Suns fan, I'd rather wait a year and hope to get a high pick then. We've never seen a team win the lottery back to back years.

Charlotte "lost" the lottery last year and got the #2 pick. Its a little funny how the only team that moved up in the lottery last year just happened to be the Hornets. This year its gonna be:

1. SAC
2. CHA
3. ORL

Or any combination of the above.

NYKalltheway
05-15-2013, 04:44 PM
Orlando, Pistons or 76ers.

Orlando because they tend to win the lottery when there's a potential franchise big man available (Noel?)

Pistons just because they are on the rise and the league might feel they need a push to become relevant.

76ers, just because I feel the league wants to give a push to the Eastern Conference (long shot)

KnickaBocka.44
05-15-2013, 04:53 PM
i get why some people believe in ref conspiracies.

but the draft is essentially 100% rig-proof NOW. it has to be one of the more prevalent conspiracy theories out there that is based in exactly zero proof. most have little to no proof, but the only evidence there is for the current format is "OMG the Bulls got Rose". the way it's set up is essentially rig-proof.

Bulls got Rose, Cavs got Lebron, Durant went to the Sonics, who had already been sold and moved to a location closest to his home of all teams in the lottery OKC. It's not proof, but there is a pretty strong correlation.

After the Rose draft the Clippers and Wizards won the rights to Griffin and Wall, respectively. It's worth noting that there was no real "superstar" player movement during these years.

Then after the 2010 Draft the Heat formed their big 3, and Cleveland got Kyrie as compensation in 2011. Chris Paul got dished and the Hornets got The Brow as compensation in 2012.

The trends don't point to an exact reason why the league might fix the draft, but over the last 10 years more than half of the situations make you wonder if it could be true.

YoungOne
05-15-2013, 04:54 PM
can I bet on the no. 1 pick somewhere?? cause I had new orleans last year..

Guppyfighter
05-15-2013, 04:56 PM
Bulls got Rose, Cavs got Lebron, Durant went to the Sonics, who had already been sold and moved to a location closest to his home of all teams in the lottery OKC. It's not proof, but there is a pretty strong correlation.

After the Rose draft the Clippers and Wizards won the rights to Griffin and Wall, respectively. It's worth noting that there was no real "superstar" player movement during these years.

Then after the 2010 Draft the Heat formed their big 3, and Cleveland got Kyrie as compensation in 2011. Chris Paul got dished and the Hornets got The Brow as compensation in 2012.

The trends don't point to an exact reason why the league might fix the draft, but over the last 10 years more than half of the situations make you wonder if it could be true.

I can't believe you actually used the word correlation here. I am not sure you actually know what that means. Speculation based on no evidence is not the same as correlation, even if you perceive a pattern.

A correlation can be proven.

Plus, the way they do the lottery is literally rig proof. It would take some ocean eleven ********.

Shkelqim
05-15-2013, 05:04 PM
Easy Magic win. They need everything they can get, Sixers in 3rd.

RLundi
05-15-2013, 05:34 PM
Well, every team involved has a representative there in the room. They also have auditors and a couple random media members from various organizations that they change every year.

The reason it's not televised is because the draft is a highly anticipated event that would lose the majority of its muster if they aired the prolonged and boring ping pong drawing. Essentially, they'd lose ratings and it would be boring. The credibility is very clearly obvious to anyone who actually spends 3 hours studying the probability in the draft format and its reasoning outside of Youtube conspiracy videos.


Here's a primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery

I'm not saying it's rigged, but this is a major reach and sounds like you're making excuses. Who knows why it's not televised, but I assure you it's not because of ratings or the boring process.

KnickaBocka.44
05-15-2013, 05:36 PM
I can't believe you actually used the word correlation here. I am not sure you actually know what that means. Speculation based on no evidence is not the same as correlation, even if you perceive a pattern.

A correlation can be proven.

Plus, the way they do the lottery is literally rig proof. It would take some ocean eleven ********.

I may have been incorrect in saying a "strong" correlation. But correlation is observed, not proven. You can determine a level of correlation for literally anything that has variables, from no correlation to 100%.

Furthermore, they don't pull the ping pong balls in front of anyone anymore so who knows what they're up to behind the scenes.

tredigs
05-15-2013, 05:37 PM
How is it rig-proof now? ur saying there is no evidence to suggest it is other than derrick rose..

-How about Kyrie irving..2.8% chance of winning year after Lebron leaves, they win it.
-Lebron to his hometown cavaliers..You can say they had the highest % to win it at 22.5% but there was a 77.5% they didnt land him, of course they did
-D-Rose as u mentioned..1.7% chance of landing him

Those are just a few examples but to say it is rig proof is naive and exactly what david stern wants people to think. I do not think the draft is rigged every year, more rigged when a cant miss prospect needs to go to a market that is stalling..ie lebron, d-rose, Kyrie, Yao, anthony davis etc..

There was also New Jersey's 4.4% chance in 2000 to get #1 - which they did, and got Kenyon Martin. Or the Bucks 6% chance at #1 in 2005 where they got Bogut. Toronto's 8.8% chance at #1 the following year where they took Bargnani.

A star going to his home city means nothing. If they're going to be great, they'll be great and be loved by their city regardless of where they grew up. I'd have to look up the wikipedia of half the Warriors to know what city they were born in. Who cares?

Going even further to show instances where "well, OF COURSE the team with the best chance at getting Lebron got him!" as more examples of potential rigging is just funny to me.

For all that think it is rigged, I would love to see a few scenarios that you can come up with where this is possible (given all the ridiculous provisions we know exist to 'seemingly' negate this possibility)? And don't pretend that just because the thing is not televised it is not extremely well documented by media, auditors, all team representatives, etc. Unless of course every team and the media are also all in on the conspiracy ("not every year just some!", I know).

Celticsfan2007
05-15-2013, 05:38 PM
I could easily see the Kings getting the #1 pick due to their pending sale to new owners.

tredigs
05-15-2013, 05:44 PM
I may have been incorrect in saying a "strong" correlation. But correlation is observed, not proven. You can determine a level of correlation for literally anything that has variables, from no correlation to 100%.

Furthermore, they don't pull the ping pong balls in front of anyone anymore so who knows what they're up to behind the scenes.
Where did you hear/read this? Source?

Everything I've read on the draft points to that being untrue. Every lottery team has representation in the room, plus a rotating media member.

Sandman
05-15-2013, 05:49 PM
Where did you hear/read this? Source?

Everything I've read on the draft points to that being untrue. Every lottery team has representation in the room, plus a rotating media member.
Who knows. The biggest fix people point to is Ewing and that was done on camera.

JasonJohnHorn
05-15-2013, 06:24 PM
I don't get the impression like the league would care about any of those teams enough to rig it for them.

The Pelicans were supposedly part of the deal: "We'll buy the team if it comes with the number one pick." The league was in possession of the team and wanted it moved. This isn't the case with Detroit or SAC. They have buyers.

Most other teams I don't think the league care about seeing them do well. It wouldn't be Detroit because when Detroit was winning the officials fawking killed them all the time. It would be a waste on the Raptors so long as Coangelo is still there and none of the other teams have much going on.

xk4
05-15-2013, 06:30 PM
If rigging has helped a few struggling teams sell tickets, oh well. None of them have won titles because of it.

A #1 pick can help put you in the right direction, but it's up to the staff to add players and create a winning culture. Bad teams stay bad because they are mismanaged and spend most of their time firing coaches.

NYK|NYY
05-15-2013, 06:37 PM
The "Lottery is Fixed!" is my favorite "Probably not true but if it came out to be true I would not be surprised" type of conspiracy. The coincidences have been hilariously suspicious at times.

SACNYY
05-15-2013, 06:43 PM
It's rigged. Stern is the biggest crook in sports. I hate that troll.

Guppyfighter
05-15-2013, 06:44 PM
I feel like everyone is stupid by choice sometimes. This being one of these things.

tr3ymill3r
05-15-2013, 06:52 PM
Here is how you will all be able to finally tell that the NBA is rigged. Wiggins will be a one and done at Kansas and Seattle will be able to get him to restart the Super Sonics.

Guppyfighter
05-15-2013, 07:14 PM
Here is how you will all be able to finally tell that the NBA is rigged. Wiggins will be a one and done at Kansas and Seattle will be able to get him to restart the Super Sonics.

No.

Supersonics/Kings suck. They will get a high chance at a pick.

Every team has a rig story.

NJrockPD
05-15-2013, 07:40 PM
It's hard for me to answer this question because although I DO think the NBA is rigged I don't know exactly what their end goal is. If it is to make all of the teams as profitable as possible then they may help certain teams that are hemorrhaging money. Otherwise they would want to help the big market teams who could increase their profits the most by bringing in a big name. My other question is who is the consensus #1 pick in this years NBA draft. If Trey Burke is the guy then they aren't going to help a team with another star PG like the Cavs and if it's Noel then forget teams like the Kings or the Jazz who don't need a big. Due to the amount of variables I have two lists of possible lottery winners after getting some financial info from FORBES.com list of "The NBA's Most Valuable Teams".

If the NBA wants all of it's teams to be more profitable:

1.

#15 Portland Trail Blazers
Value: $457 million
Loss: $10 million

The Trail Blazers stumbled on the court last year, finishing with a record of 28-38, after three straight playoff appearances. Fans still flocked to the Rose Garden as the team had the second-highest attendance in the NBA, averaging 20,496 fans per game. The Rose Garden is one of the few NBA arenas without a naming rights deal. Team president Chris McGowan hopes to have one secured over the next year in a deal worth $2.5 million annually. Team owner Paul Allen, one of the wealthiest men in the world (net worth: $15 billion), owns the Rose Garden after buying the building out of bankruptcy in 2007.

Adding Nerlens Noel to a starting five that already includes Aldridge, Lillard, Batum, and Matthews would be nice. On a roster with budding stars like Aldridge and Lillard a slight boost might help billionaire Paul Allen gain back some of that $10 million he lost in 2012. A team that is ranked #15 in value and had the second highest attendance in NBA should not lose that much money. Maybe the NBA gives a second chance to draft a star after they missed so badly in 2007.

2.

#29 Charlotte Bobcats
Value: $315 million
Loss: $13 million

The Bobcats posted a record of 7-59, the worst winning percentage in the history of the NBA. Their average attendance at Time Warner Cable Arena was 14,750, third-lowest in the league. Followers on television also remained scarce, as the Bobcats average cable rating on SportSouth was 0.82, ahead of only the Nets. The team did manage to cash in on its iconic Hall of Fame owner last year when it inked a one-of-a-kind deal with Presbyterian Healthcare, a Bobcats founding partner, that combines arena sponsorship with an endorsement deal with Michael Jordan.

When I talked about teams hemorrhaging money earlier that was a comment aimed directly at the Charlotte Bobcats. They are terrible year after year but with Walker, Sessions, Kidd-Gilchrist, Gordon, and Henderson they do have some talent on the roster. If the NBA is sick of the embarrassment and wants to help out their meal ticket for nearly two decades (Michael Jordan), then maybe they send Noel to a team that could do some damage with a spark. A $13 million loss in 2012 is horrific and they are historically terrible so it's no surprise that they are one of the least profitable teams in the NBA. If the league wants every team to turn a profit they must help this glorified college team play up to the NBA level.

3.

#26 Minnesota Timberwolves
Value: $364 million
Loss: $4.5 million

The Timberwolves are in an extremely competitive market for selling suites and sponsorships, going against the newer Xcel Energy Center and Target Field. Prior to the start of the 2012-13 season the Timberwolves announced they were going to decrease the number of suites in the Target Center from 56 to 40 as the team leased just 32 of the arena's suites last season. The team is converting six of the suites to expand its Club Cambria from 128 seats to 208. The club has been sold out the past two seasons at a cost of $4,644, which includes tickets and food.

The T-Wolves did not turn a profit last year, but with arena renovations they look to gain approximately $371,520 from the Club Cambria alone this year. Kevin Love is already a star and Ricky Rubio has international fame so this team should be very profitable. If the NBA thinks that Rubio's international fame can help the Timberwolves turn a profit they could give the #1 pick in the Lottery to them, which might also entice Love to stick around and silence all of the trade talk that surrounded him in 2012. Rubio, Love, and the top pick in the draft could push Minnesota into playoff contention in 2013.
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Big(ger) Markets need to make Big(er) Profits.:


#5 Dallas Mavericks
Value: $685 million
Profit: $13 million

The Mavericks sold out an NBA-best 432 straight regular season games heading into the 2012-13 season. Credit 12 straight playoff appearances and the popularity of 11-time All-Star Dirk Nowitzki, as well as Mark Cuban, who markets his franchise harder than any other owner in pro sports. The Mavs have consistently lost money under Cuban thanks to high payrolls that triggered the luxury tax. But last year's $2.7 million bill was the lowest of the past 7 years.

A Mark Cuban, big money team with an international star in Dirk Nowitzki, that is two years removed from an NBA Championship sounds like a good home for the #1 overall pick. A guy like Noel could play solid defense like Chandler did during their championship run opening up Dirk to focus more on his strength, which is scoring points. Top 5 most valuable team in the NBA made $13 millon in profit, while having a disappointing season. This season the Mavs missed the playoffs for the first time since 2000, maybe the NBA helps them get back there with the #1 pick overall in the 2013 draft. They would welcome Noel or Burke so they might not need the top spot, but I expect them to be up there.


#16 Cleveland Cavaliers
Value: $434 million
Profit: $19 million

The Cavaliers went 21-45 during the 2011-12 season and saw attendance plummet 21%, to an average of just 15,900 per game at Quicken Loans Arena. It was the team's second season since LeBron James left, but the first they could not use James to entice season ticket holders (James left the Cavs in July 2010 after fans already had purchased season tickets). For the 2012-13 campaign, the team plans on introducing a reconfigured scorer's table intended to increase the amount of television exposure courtside advertisers get by at least 15% which should help boost revenue.


Kyrie Irving has become a NBA star, Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson are very nice pieces, but they still need more to improve on last year's sub 30 win season. Zeller slowly adjusting to the NBA and Varejao was often injured last season so maybe the addition of a guy like Noel would be enough to boost them into the weak eastern conference playoff picture. Cleveland tasted success in the Lebron years and with the flashes of greatness from Irving they may be able to entice their James fan ticket holders to keep coming out if they see a few more wins. The #1 overall pick would help Irving and continue the profits that will apparently plummet if James fans don't re-up on their season tickets soon. $19 million in profit is nice and if the top pick in the 2013 draft will help to at least maintain those numbers then NBA would have a good reason to rig the lottery in Cleveland's favor.


#20 Philadelphia 76ers
Value: $418 million
Loss: $0.8 million

The 76ers had the biggest per game attendance jump in the NBA last season at 19% in their first year under the new ownership group led by billionaire Joshua Harris. The team reached the second round of the playoffs for the first time since 2003 before falling to the Boston Celtics. The team rolled the dice in August trading for oft-injured, franchise center Andrew Bynum, who was in the last year of his contract with the Lakers. Injuries have kept Bynum sidelined this season, but the team has doubled its season ticket base this season after the trade and strong 2012 playoff run.

Philly fans are some of the most passionate, loyal, and at times down right brutal in professional sports. After making the playoffs two seasons ago and acquiring Andrew Bynum from the Lakers they had a very bright future. When the 76ers had the biggest attendance jump in the NBA it was to be expected, but the lack of wins certainly surprised people. Philly is a big sports town, unfortunately for the NBA the fans enjoy watching teams that win so the $0.8 million loss makes sense. The thing that confuses me is a big(ger) market like Philadelphia that happens to be a major sports town is home to a team that is in the bottom half of the NBA's most valuable teams. Maybe giving them a big like Noel to replace Bynum could help them get back the playoff caliber team we saw two years ago. If that happens with the young team the have in place I see big profits in their future.

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#11 Sacramento Kings
Value: $525 million
Profit: $2.6 million

The Maloof family is on the verge of selling the Kings to Microeam's move to Oklahoma) for two seasons and then move into a new, $490 million arena. The soft CEO Steve Ballmer and hedge fund manager Chris Hansen for $525 million (plus a relocation fee expected to be at least $50 million that will be paid to the NBA). The Kings have been trying for years to replace their antiquated arena to no avail and flirted with a move to Anaheim's Honda Center in 2011. If the deal goes through, Ballmer and Hansen will move the Kings to Seattle where they will play in KeyArena (formerly the home of the SuperSonics prior to the team will pay $290 million of the arena's cost and operate it. The Kings had the fourth lowest attendance last season and are once again near the bottom after a playoff drought that stretches to 2006.

As you may have seen above the Kings owners are looking to spend big money to move the team. The NBA is going to benefit from this move, but can the new owners be sure they will get a return on their big investment? Maybe the NBA scratches their back and gives them a potential star in the form of the #1 pick in the NBA draft? The Kings are loaded with talent in my opinion and as we have already seen with the Thunder a location change is much easier when your team is winning games. If the #1 pick helps to smooth the transition to a new arena, while also making a financially successful team more successful maybe Sacramento beats the "odds" and wins the lottery.



#27 New Orleans Hornets "Pelicans"
Value: $340 million
Profit: $3.3 million

Tom Benson, who has owned the NFL's New Orleans Saints since 1985, bought the Hornets from the NBA in April, 2012 for $340 million. Benson also extended the team's lease at the New Orleans Arena through the 2024 season. As part of that agreement, the state of Louisiana, which owns the arena, will provide $50 million of upgrades for such things as additional premium seating that will generate more revenue for Benson. The new lease eliminates all exit options for the team and the current attendance benchmarks. In addition, the lease reduces the state's financial obligations to the team. The previous agreement required the Louisiana Stadium and Exposition District to pay up to $7.9 million annually to the Hornets. That obligation will drop to $2.8 million annually, with the money used in ways that could generate revenue for the district.

The Pelicans were previously owned by the NBA and had last years #1 overall pick in Anthony Davis. I would be surprised to see them "win" again, but it seems too fitting for a new team to have the top pick. Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel would be a nightmare for opposing offenses trying to get to the basket and who knows maybe this could have been part of the sales pitch to Tom Benson. We are talking about the NBA here so nothing would really shock me. I see it going down like this:



Benson: Hello.
NBA: Hello Mr. Benson.
Benson: So, I already own a sub .500 team in a more successful league. Why should I buy the Hornets from you guys for $300 million dollars?
NBA: Well to start you have Eric Gordon.
Benson: Yeah when he can get on the court. Who thought up the Hornets name? It's stupid. Not tough at all.
NBA: We're not sure who thought of the name, but back to Eric Gordon. He ended the 2012 season pretty strong and he's still only 24.
Benson: Can I get CP3 back?
NBA: No.
Benson: Why would you make that trade? He was the only cool thing about the Hornets. I hate hornets.
NBA: We know. We know. Well you have last years #1 overall pick in Anthony Davis.
Benson: Well he's pretty good, but he's got that goofy unibrow. Not cool like birds. I really like birds.
NBA: Yeah, umm birds are pretty cool. What about Anthony's basketball skills we think he could be a star in our league.
Benson: Yeah that's true. He was certainly the top prospect in last year's draft. I agree with the pick that you guys made.
NBA: Your welcome (NBA reps giggle). We got really lucky winning the lottery last year (NBA reps ROTFL).
Benson: Settle down guys I'm a busy man. Davis is nice, but he's missing a couple of key attributes.
NBA: Like what?
Benson: He's not fierce, graceful, fearless, energetic, and charismatic like Chris Paul or a Pelican.
NBA: What if we help you to get another fierce, energetic, bird . . . man type player?
Benson: I don't want Chris Andersen.
NBA: No. What we're saying is you can pick your own star to team with Davis and Gordon in the upcoming draft.
Benson: Isn't there a lottery? I don't want to get in trouble again, if you remember I own the Saints.
NBA: Forget the lottery we'll rig it like we always do and don't worry about getting in trouble, we're the NBA we do whatever we want.
Benson: Besides the talent I really just don't like the team name or colors either.
NBA: You can change them!
Benson: You've got yourself a deal! You are looking at the new owner of the New Orleans Pelicans!
NBA: Did you say the Pelicans? Sure if that's what you want, but the price just went up to $340 million.


Longest post ever.

bklynny67
05-15-2013, 07:53 PM
Great thread! Just goes to show that you can make-up a story line for whoever you want as to why they got the number 1 pick. Shut up the conspiracists before they even start!

Having said that I could see Orlando (because they have the best chance more than anything else) following the trend of Cleveland getting the number 1 pick after Lebron left, and Hornets getting the number 1 pick after CP3 left (but I don't necessarily think it was rigged to come out like that).

But then again if they would just televise the damn picks then we could know for sure that it wasn't rigged. The fact that they are unwilling to do that, and all we see is an envelope come out of room where they could be doing God knows what in there does make me question the whole process.

Not true. Literally everyone was saying last yr that New Orleans would get the number 1 pick, regardless of their record, and they did. People been saying that long before the season was over too.

bholly
05-15-2013, 08:09 PM
I like this thread idea, but an option for, "I don't believe the NBA is rigged" would offset those who are just picking the Magic because they technically have the highest odds of winning.

I actually had that, but took it out because I didn't want to become exclusively a "is the lottery rigged or not?" argument (but feel free to keep fighting that fight - I 100% agree with you on it).

What I wanted was the relative strength of the rigged storylines or the relative likelihood of each team benefiting from rigging if it was rigged, not the likelihood of it being rigged at all or who's the most likely to win.

That's why I worded the question the way I did and added "if they rigged the lottery" to it - so that those who don't think it's rigged can still put themselves in the hypothetical and vote for who they think would be most likely to benefit from any rigging - not for who they think is most likely to win.

jon32
05-15-2013, 08:12 PM
Just let Toronto have him.........He's gonna end up leaving whatever franchise he goes to anyways as soon as he can to play for his hometown team ( hopefully ).....

Sandman
05-15-2013, 08:26 PM
It's hard for me to answer this question because although I DO think the NBA is rigged I don't know exactly what their end goal is. If it is to make all of the teams as profitable as possible then they may help certain teams that are hemorrhaging money. Otherwise they would want to help the big market teams who could increase their profits the most by bringing in a big name. My other question is who is the consensus #1 pick in this years NBA draft. If Trey Burke is the guy then they aren't going to help a team with another star PG like the Cavs and if it's Noel then forget teams like the Kings or the Jazz who don't need a big. Due to the amount of variables I have two lists of possible lottery winners after getting some financial info from FORBES.com list of "The NBA's Most Valuable Teams".

If the NBA wants all of it's teams to be more profitable:

1.


Adding Nerlens Noel to a starting five that already includes Aldridge, Lillard, Batum, and Matthews would be nice. On a roster with budding stars like Aldridge and Lillard a slight boost might help billionaire Paul Allen gain back some of that $10 million he lost in 2012. A team that is ranked #15 in value and had the second highest attendance in NBA should not lose that much money. Maybe the NBA gives a second chance to draft a star after they missed so badly in 2007.

2.


When I talked about teams hemorrhaging money earlier that was a comment aimed directly at the Charlotte Bobcats. They are terrible year after year but with Walker, Sessions, Kidd-Gilchrist, Gordon, and Henderson they do have some talent on the roster. If the NBA is sick of the embarrassment and wants to help out their meal ticket for nearly two decades (Michael Jordan), then maybe they send Noel to a team that could do some damage with a spark. A $13 million loss in 2012 is horrific and they are historically terrible so it's no surprise that they are one of the least profitable teams in the NBA. If the league wants every team to turn a profit they must help this glorified college team play up to the NBA level.

3.


The T-Wolves did not turn a profit last year, but with arena renovations they look to gain approximately $371,520 from the Club Cambria alone this year. Kevin Love is already a star and Ricky Rubio has international fame so this team should be very profitable. If the NBA thinks that Rubio's international fame can help the Timberwolves turn a profit they could give the #1 pick in the Lottery to them, which might also entice Love to stick around and silence all of the trade talk that surrounded him in 2012. Rubio, Love, and the top pick in the draft could push Minnesota into playoff contention in 2013.
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Big(ger) Markets need to make Big(er) Profits.:



A Mark Cuban, big money team with an international star in Dirk Nowitzki, that is two years removed from an NBA Championship sounds like a good home for the #1 overall pick. A guy like Noel could play solid defense like Chandler did during their championship run opening up Dirk to focus more on his strength, which is scoring points. Top 5 most valuable team in the NBA made $13 millon in profit, while having a disappointing season. This season the Mavs missed the playoffs for the first time since 2000, maybe the NBA helps them get back there with the #1 pick overall in the 2013 draft. They would welcome Noel or Burke so they might not need the top spot, but I expect them to be up there.



Kyrie Irving has become a NBA star, Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson are very nice pieces, but they still need more to improve on last year's sub 30 win season. Zeller slowly adjusting to the NBA and Varejao was often injured last season so maybe the addition of a guy like Noel would be enough to boost them into the weak eastern conference playoff picture. Cleveland tasted success in the Lebron years and with the flashes of greatness from Irving they may be able to entice their James fan ticket holders to keep coming out if they see a few more wins. The #1 overall pick would help Irving and continue the profits that will apparently plummet if James fans don't re-up on their season tickets soon. $19 million in profit is nice and if the top pick in the 2013 draft will help to at least maintain those numbers then NBA would have a good reason to rig the lottery in Cleveland's favor.



Philly fans are some of the most passionate, loyal, and at times down right brutal in professional sports. After making the playoffs two seasons ago and acquiring Andrew Bynum from the Lakers they had a very bright future. When the 76ers had the biggest attendance jump in the NBA it was to be expected, but the lack of wins certainly surprised people. Philly is a big sports town, unfortunately for the NBA the fans enjoy watching teams that win so the $0.8 million loss makes sense. The thing that confuses me is a big(ger) market like Philadelphia that happens to be a major sports town is home to a team that is in the bottom half of the NBA's most valuable teams. Maybe giving them a big like Noel to replace Bynum could help them get back the playoff caliber team we saw two years ago. If that happens with the young team the have in place I see big profits in their future.

--------------------------------------------------------------------




As you may have seen above the Kings owners are looking to spend big money to move the team. The NBA is going to benefit from this move, but can the new owners be sure they will get a return on their big investment? Maybe the NBA scratches their back and gives them a potential star in the form of the #1 pick in the NBA draft? The Kings are loaded with talent in my opinion and as we have already seen with the Thunder a location change is much easier when your team is winning games. If the #1 pick helps to smooth the transition to a new arena, while also making a financially successful team more successful maybe Sacramento beats the "odds" and wins the lottery.




The Pelicans were previously owned by the NBA and had last years #1 overall pick in Anthony Davis. I would be surprised to see them "win" again, but it seems too fitting for a new team to have the top pick. Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel would be a nightmare for opposing offenses trying to get to the basket and who knows maybe this could have been part of the sales pitch to Tom Benson. We are talking about the NBA here so nothing would really shock me. I see it going down like this:



Benson: Hello.
NBA: Hello Mr. Benson.
Benson: So, I already own a sub .500 team in a more successful league. Why should I buy the Hornets from you guys for $300 million dollars?
NBA: Well to start you have Eric Gordon.
Benson: Yeah when he can get on the court. Who thought up the Hornets name? It's stupid. Not tough at all.
NBA: We're not sure who thought of the name, but back to Eric Gordon. He ended the 2012 season pretty strong and he's still only 24.
Benson: Can I get CP3 back?
NBA: No.
Benson: Why would you make that trade? He was the only cool thing about the Hornets. I hate hornets.
NBA: We know. We know. Well you have last years #1 overall pick in Anthony Davis.
Benson: Well he's pretty good, but he's got that goofy unibrow. Not cool like birds. I really like birds.
NBA: Yeah, umm birds are pretty cool. What about Anthony's basketball skills we think he could be a star in our league.
Benson: Yeah that's true. He was certainly the top prospect in last year's draft. I agree with the pick that you guys made.
NBA: Your welcome (NBA reps giggle). We got really lucky winning the lottery last year (NBA reps ROTFL).
Benson: Settle down guys I'm a busy man. Davis is nice, but he's missing a couple of key attributes.
NBA: Like what?
Benson: He's not fierce, graceful, fearless, energetic, and charismatic like Chris Paul or a Pelican.
NBA: What if we help you to get another fierce, energetic, bird . . . man type player?
Benson: I don't want Chris Andersen.
NBA: No. What we're saying is you can pick your own star to team with Davis and Gordon in the upcoming draft.
Benson: Isn't there a lottery? I don't want to get in trouble again, if you remember I own the Saints.
NBA: Forget the lottery we'll rig it like we always do and don't worry about getting in trouble, we're the NBA we do whatever we want.
Benson: Besides the talent I really just don't like the team name or colors either.
NBA: You can change them!
Benson: You've got yourself a deal! You are looking at the new owner of the New Orleans Pelicans!
NBA: Did you say the Pelicans? Sure if that's what you want, but the price just went up to $340 million.


Longest post ever.
nobody will like this post because of the NBA rigged context, but I thought it was a decent read at least

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2013, 09:37 PM
Whoever wins, they'll make it a conspiracy. Someone will say 'He'll rig it for the Magic'. Next thing you know, the Cavs win and they'll flip flop saying 'I knew the Cavs were going to get the 1st pick! It's rigged'.

Even then, people say that it's rigged because X team wins the lottery, despite having like a top 5 chance to win anyways. Even if it's done live, people will still make claims it's rigged.

topdog
05-15-2013, 09:40 PM
Anything can be rigged, especially with computers. A live show with actual ping pong balls (that can be sold for profit as "commemorative") would help the credibility. Such a show would be no less entertaining than the current "and the computer says..."

People have to remember that talent is a factor in whether or not rigging is probable. Are you going to rig the lottery with zero franchise-changers? You're not really doing anyone a favor there and that's how I feel about this year.

P.S. Not generally into conspiracies but this has become just too fishy to me. Look back at my posts from last year - I said that if NOLA didn't get Davis then it was not rigged months before the lottery.

mjt20mik
05-15-2013, 09:45 PM
Orlando if it was rigged

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2013, 09:46 PM
Anything can be rigged, especially with computers. A live show with actual ping pong balls (that can be sold for profit as "commemorative") would help the credibility. Such a show would be no less entertaining than the current "and the computer says..."

People have to remember that talent is a factor in whether or not rigging is probable. Are you going to rig the lottery with zero franchise-changers? You're not really doing anyone a favor there and that's how I feel about this year.

P.S. Not generally into conspiracies but this has become just too fishy to me. Look back at my posts from last year - I said that if NOLA didn't get Davis then it was not rigged months before the lottery.

It's not done with computers though. It's basically the ping pong balls get picked with team representatives as witnesses. Then it goes to an envelop where it's revealed. No computers in play.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-15-2013, 09:51 PM
If the current system was rigged we would've known a long time ago.

Sandman
05-15-2013, 09:58 PM
It's not done with computers though. It's basically the ping pong balls get picked with team representatives as witnesses. Then it goes to an envelop where it's revealed. No computers in play.
This is how :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX1kMlG8c7Y

Obviously not conclusive at all, just had to put it out there because its the thing conspiracy theorists point to the most.

The rhythm definitely looks bunked up.. 1, 2, 3, whack, 5, 6, 7.

I'm sure if you really wanted to you could rig ping pong balls. You would just need to weight them differently.

Again doesn't mean ****. Just don't think that witnesses necessarily mean **** either.

topdog
05-15-2013, 10:07 PM
It's not done with computers though. It's basically the ping pong balls get picked with team representatives as witnesses. Then it goes to an envelop where it's revealed. No computers in play.

Sorry for the confusion - meant to say that the computer age makes any number of things possible as far as tampering and using some sort of identifier that an auditor wouldn't detect by usual means.

tredigs
05-15-2013, 10:09 PM
This is how :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX1kMlG8c7Y

Obviously not conclusive at all, just had to put it out there because its the thing conspiracy theorists point to the most.

The rhythm definitely looks bunked up.. 1, 2, 3, whack, 5, 6, 7.

I'm sure if you really wanted to you could rig ping pong balls. You would just need to weight them differently.

Again doesn't mean ****. Just don't think that witnesses necessarily mean **** either.

Pause it at 45 seconds. The envelope directly above the one he grabs (NY's) is also bent. The fact that people are surprised at all that hard/thin envelopes would bend at the corners being tossed around like that is foolish in and of itself. But having that 2nd bent envelope directly above it in the same spot (obviously meaning they hit the same corner at the same time) just destroys that 1985 Fix argument on its face.

As far as weighting the balls differently, that makes no sense if you think about it for 5 seconds. How would that ensure what balls fly into the slot at the right time with so many balls in there smashing into each other? The physics of that are impossible to predict, weight distributed differently or not.

Sandman
05-15-2013, 10:10 PM
Pause it at 45 seconds. The envelope directly above the one he grabs (NY's) is also bent. The fact that people are surprised at all that hard/thin envelopes would bend at the corners being tossed around like that is foolish in and of itself. But having that 2nd bent envelope directly above it in the same spot (obviously meaning they hit the same corner at the same time) just destroys that 1985 Fix argument on its face.

As far as weighting the balls differently, that makes no sense if you think about it for 5 seconds. How would that ensure what balls fly into the slot at the right time with so many balls in there smashing into each other? The physics of that are impossible to predict, weight distributed differently or not.

I'm only 25 so this one dates me a little bit, but I just showed this one to my dad and he said in '85 the rumor was that the Knicks envelope was in the freezer and Stern grabbed the cold one. :laugh:

Sandman
05-15-2013, 10:11 PM
As far as weighting the balls differently, that makes no sense if you think about it for 5 seconds. How would that ensure what balls fly into the slot at the right time with so many balls in there smashing into each other? The physics of that are impossible to predict, weight distributed differently or not.
to predict exactly, yes, but you could definitely fudge with %s, which I definitely believe the NBA does.

If Donaghy can bet games or give info based on referee tendencies, then it can't be something the league doesn't realize it is doing.

hugepatsfan
05-15-2013, 10:12 PM
Miami

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2013, 10:23 PM
This is how :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX1kMlG8c7Y

Obviously not conclusive at all, just had to put it out there because its the thing conspiracy theorists point to the most.

The rhythm definitely looks bunked up.. 1, 2, 3, whack, 5, 6, 7.

I'm sure if you really wanted to you could rig ping pong balls. You would just need to weight them differently.

Again doesn't mean ****. Just don't think that witnesses necessarily mean **** either.

All that shows me is that even if people witness the lottery live, they'll still ***** and think the draft if fixed if it doesn't go their way.

Everyone complains saying 'if it's not rigged, show it live'. NBA has shown the lottery live before and yet we still here the conspiracies.

At some point, people just want something to complain about.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2013, 10:25 PM
Sorry for the confusion - meant to say that the computer age makes any number of things possible as far as tampering and using some sort of identifier that an auditor wouldn't detect by usual means.

I suppose it's possible that it's rigged, but people ***** about anything. People say that if they want to prove it's not fixed, show it live. I can guarantee that if they show it live, we won't stop hearing about the complaints about a fixed lottery.

People just like to complain, so the NBA can't really do anything to prove that they are doing it cleanly. Not that they have to prove themselves clean considering no one has actually proved they are tampering with the lottery.

Sandman
05-15-2013, 10:26 PM
All that shows me is that even if people witness the lottery live, they'll still ***** and think the draft if fixed if it doesn't go their way.

Everyone complains saying 'if it's not rigged, show it live'. NBA has shown the lottery live before and yet we still here the conspiracies.

At some point, people just want something to complain about.

qft

I think that's what the spirt of the thread was -- hey you conspiracy theorists, if its rigged tell me how ahead of time and not after.

NYK|NYY
05-15-2013, 10:42 PM
The only real evidence for the rigging of the draft is the suspicious coincidences when some team (insert name here) wins the lottery. If you put thought into it , they might not even be coincidences at all. But just a perception that's dictated around the context of the draft and the teams in it:

Any team that wins the lottery is usually a team that -needs- to win it, that's why they are in the lottery~ (There are always smart teams that have suckered a bad team into giving them their draft picks. See: Knicks) Every time a team wins the lottery can possibly be argued "they desperately needed that number 1 pick!" When in reality you could probably spin that about any team that wins the lottery. (Usually)

Now teams that are around say 12/13/14/ lottery odds, have the lowest chances of winning. But if these teams ever DO win, it feels like some sort of miracle so, naturally, are reaction is that it must be fixed.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-15-2013, 10:49 PM
qft

I think that's what the spirt of the thread was -- hey you conspiracy theorists, if its rigged tell me how ahead of time and not after.

I've been wanting to make this thread too really.

Past drafts, I've looked at the threads and look at what people think before the draft. Lord and behold, once the actual results are out, those same people quickly say 'I knew it was rigged!' despite their predictions being off. Same with people who are furious that their team didn't win the draft.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
05-15-2013, 10:50 PM
If its rigged hopefully hennigan was wise enough to secure next year first from stern and not this year ...

topdog
05-15-2013, 11:28 PM
I suppose it's possible that it's rigged, but people ***** about anything. People say that if they want to prove it's not fixed, show it live. I can guarantee that if they show it live, we won't stop hearing about the complaints about a fixed lottery.
People just like to complain, so the NBA can't really do anything to prove that they are doing it cleanly. Not that they have to prove themselves clean considering no one has actually proved they are tampering with the lottery.

It doesn't really take away any of the concerns, but I think it would improve perception since there are connotations we automatically connect to closed doors and backroom deals as it were.

bholly
05-15-2013, 11:40 PM
to predict exactly, yes, but you could definitely fudge with %s, which I definitely believe the NBA does.

I don't think that's really true, at least in any significant sort of way. Even if they could **** with the ball weights or whatever, the motion of the balls is so extremely complex that it's essentially beyond prediction or control - particularly given the guy who says when to take a ball is 15 feet away and with his back to the machine (Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/story?id=1384345)).

And that's IF they could tamper with the balls. To do that they'd have to be in on it with Smartplay (who make the lottery machines and balls, as well as doing things like powerball lottery draws, and would be making a huge risk for that business by rigging it, not to mention the risk of criminal charges), and with the auditors who weigh, size, and certify the balls (in the link above they were from Ernst and Young, but I don't know if they always are - but either way, they'd also be taking a huge risk by rigging it).

In short it would require several groups of people to take extremely large risks to rig it without the teams knowing, so it's extremely unlikely - and it's even less likely that the teams would agree to rigging it (and, moreover, that that many people could keep it a secret all this time).

It's just so difficult to rig, and so unlikely that they would or even could pull it off, that without any significant statistical evidence of lottery oddities (and there is none - a handful of mildly odd results isn't nearly enough), then you have to be pretty crazy or completely statistically illiterate to believe that they rig it.

Guppyfighter
05-15-2013, 11:43 PM
Not true. Literally everyone was saying last yr that New Orleans would get the number 1 pick, regardless of their record, and they did. People been saying that long before the season was over too.

Every team was said over and over again. Except the Raptors. No one would think it's rig if the Raps got it.

Guppyfighter
05-15-2013, 11:44 PM
I don't think that's really true, at least in any significant sort of way. Even if they could **** with the ball weights or whatever, the motion of the balls is so extremely complex that it's essentially beyond prediction or control - particularly given the guy who says when to take a ball is 15 feet away and with his back to the machine (Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/story?id=1384345)).

And that's IF they could tamper with the balls. To do that they'd have to be in on it with Smartplay (who make the lottery machines and balls, as well as doing things like powerball lottery draws, and would be making a huge risk for that business by rigging it, not to mention the risk of criminal charges), and with the auditors who weigh, size, and certify the balls (in the link above they were from Ernst and Young, but I don't know if they always are - but either way, they'd also be taking a huge risk by rigging it).

In short it would require several groups of people to take extremely large risks to rig it without the teams knowing, so it's extremely unlikely - and it's even less likely that the teams would agree to rigging it (and, moreover, that that many people could keep it a secret all this time).

It's just so difficult to rig, and so unlikely that they would or even could pull it off, that without any significant statistical evidence of lottery oddities (and there is none - a handful of mildly odd results isn't nearly enough), then you have to be pretty crazy or completely statistically illiterate to believe that they rig it.

You are right when you say it's not true.

People think this is ocean 11.

Sandman
05-15-2013, 11:44 PM
I don't think that's really true, at least in any significant sort of way. Even if they could **** with the ball weights or whatever, the motion of the balls is so extremely complex that it's essentially beyond prediction or control - particularly given the guy who says when to take a ball is 15 feet away and with his back to the machine (Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/story?id=1384345)).

And that's IF they could tamper with the balls. To do that they'd have to be in on it with Smartplay (who make the lottery machines and balls, as well as doing things like powerball lottery draws, and would be making a huge risk for that business by rigging it, not to mention the risk of criminal charges), and with the auditors who weigh, size, and certify the balls (in the link above they were from Ernst and Young, but I don't know if they always are - but either way, they'd also be taking a huge risk by rigging it).

In short it would require several groups of people to take extremely large risks to rig it without the teams knowing, so it's extremely unlikely - and it's even less likely that the teams would agree to rigging it (and, moreover, that that many people could keep it a secret all this time).

It's just so difficult to rig, and so unlikely that they would or even could pull it off, that without any significant statistical evidence of lottery oddities (and there is none - a handful of mildly odd results isn't nearly enough), then you have to be pretty crazy or completely statistically illiterate to believe that they rig it.

So its an independent company that does the lottery? I think that could dispel some worries. That would be a different from a closed door or backroom deal like somebody else said.

bholly
05-15-2013, 11:45 PM
It doesn't really take away any of the concerns, but I think it would improve perception since there are connotations we automatically connect to closed doors and backroom deals as it were.

I agree with this. We'll never completely stop hearing about it, no matter what they do, but it would help. I don't think they should show it live - because they're right, the current format makes for far far better television - but I have no idea why they don't make the footage available online or whatever afterwards. I don't see any downside. Worst case is that it'll give the crazies footage where they can make things out of nothing (like every other conspiracy theory) - but that's no worse than now.

Vinny642
05-15-2013, 11:51 PM
There is no Davis in this draft so I dont think the Pelicans would even keep the first pick, they already talked about trading down if they do

but I think if there was a conspiracy it would be the Magic

bholly
05-15-2013, 11:53 PM
So its an independent company that does the lottery? I think that could dispel some worries. That would be a different from a closed door or backroom deal like somebody else said.

Yup. An independent company provides all the equipment (Smartplay, the company that does a lot of major powerball lotteries and what not), another independent auditing firm (previously, and possibly still, Ernst and Young, one of the biggest ones there is) checks out all the equipment and makes sure it's all fair and legit, each team's combinations are assigned to the teams beforehand (and written up on a big board where everyone can see them the whole time), and then they all (along with a rep from each team and some lawyers) watch as a guy puts the balls in the machine, and then a guy with his back turned and a stopwatch tells them when to take each ball out.
It does happen in a closed off room to prevent interference and prevent the results from getting out before the broadcast. I understand the connotations a closed room has for people, implicating the possibility of backroom deals and whatever - but once you understand how many people are there and what actually happens that's pretty hard to believe.

tredigs
05-16-2013, 12:37 AM
Your NBA iz rigged player profile:

Favorite TV Show: The X Files.

Favorite films include but are not limited to: Eagle Eye, The Bourne series and Angels & Demons.

Their favorite book is alleged to be The Da Vinci Code. Of course, they skipped the reading and just watched the movie.

They also believe global warming is a hoax and that the Earth is both hollow and inhabits an Alien race. IQ is 96.

ManRam
05-17-2013, 12:39 PM
people bringing up how the lottery might have been rigged in the 80s when they picked envelopes could be on to something.

but that's irrelevant now.

i get why the thing not being aired on live TV is unsettling, but that doesn't mean it's rigged. it's done for good reason, and each team has representatives there watching as well as various independent third part representatives. no team is going to be OK with the league letting a different team pick ahead of them. it once again caters to the "if it takes so many people to be in on the rigging, why hasn't a single person once said 'this was rigged and here is why'".

a third party firm, Ernst & Young, oversees it all. the firm is worth more money than the nba (about 25 billion according to my in depth research at wikipedia). imagine how hard it would be for the NBA to make the bigger heads there hush hush. it's one of the 10th largest private companies in the US.

the only way you could conceivably rig it is weighted balls. there are only 14 balls in there, and they're recycled back in after each 4-ball combo is drawn (three times total). if they're put right back in there, and they're weighted to give a team the top pick, wouldn't the same, or at least similar, combinations pop up each time? i think that would be suspicious if, let's say the bulls during rose's draft, keep getting their combo to pop up.


it's just an idiotic thing to rig. once again, the damage it would do would far outweigh the positives. we're not dealing with the mob here; they're not able to/haven't started killing off people. the number of people needed to keep hush would be significant. the money it would probably cost that to happen would be too.

Sandman
05-17-2013, 12:51 PM
it's just an idiotic thing to rig. once again, the damage it would do would far outweigh the positives. we're not dealing with the mob here; they're not able to/haven't started killing off people. the number of people needed to keep hush would be significant. the money it would probably cost that to happen would be too.
Are you sure? Stern knows where the bodies are buried.. ;)

FYL_McVeezy
05-17-2013, 01:37 PM
I actually don't know what Stern is up to this season as far as the lotto....I am not sure if the lotto is rigged when there is no franchise-changing player available in that particular season.....

But I am almost sure Kings or Orlando wins the Wiggins sweepstakes next season

urban85disciple
05-17-2013, 01:55 PM
For everybody saying its not rigged because the positives don't outweigh the risks: Bernie Madoff, Enron, Worldcom, Waste Management, QWest, Tyco, Satyam... I could go on, but point is people will do anything for money. I know for a fact that "independent" auditors mean absolutely nothing if a specific outcome is desired and the auditors are willing to risk being compensated heavily.

No one can say for certain that the NBA lottery is or isn't rigged. And really, who cares? The only people it really affects are the millionaire and billionaire owners. I actually believe it is rigged in year's where it absolutely needs to be (85 Knicks, 2003/2011 Cavs, 2012 Hornets).

And for people who don't believe weighted ping pong balls make a difference:
1980 PA Lottery Scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Pennsylvania_Lottery_scandal)

Edit: I'm really interested to see if the Kings win the lottery this year (1, 2, or 3) and the Raptors win next year.

Goose17
05-17-2013, 02:48 PM
Great idea for a thread. Hate the conspiracy B.S

My guess? They rig it for Orlando and then have Bynum sign with them (also part of the rig) along with a trade involving a good scorer, Danny Granger maybe? Then the finals next year will be Lakers (w/D12 and Kobe) vs Orlando (w/Bynum and Granger). It will be like a revenge match for Orlando and Bynum... that's only after they knock Miami out of the conference finals in a rivalry series that will tie in with the revelation of Wade using HGH which we'll discover through the new testing policies, it's during that offseason that Lebron reveals himself to be half-cyborg and then busts out a really nasty guitar solo with Joe Satriani and Slash as backups.


Plausible. Yes?

tredigs
05-17-2013, 02:56 PM
For everybody saying its not rigged because the positives don't outweigh the risks: Bernie Madoff, Enron, Worldcom, Waste Management, QWest, Tyco, Satyam... I could go on, but point is people will do anything for money. I know for a fact that "independent" auditors mean absolutely nothing if a specific outcome is desired and the auditors are willing to risk being compensated heavily.

No one can say for certain that the NBA lottery is or isn't rigged. And really, who cares? The only people it really affects are the millionaire and billionaire owners. I actually believe it is rigged in year's where it absolutely needs to be (85 Knicks, 2003/2011 Cavs, 2012 Hornets).

And for people who don't believe weighted ping pong balls make a difference:
1980 PA Lottery Scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Pennsylvania_Lottery_scandal)

Edit: I'm really interested to see if the Kings win the lottery this year (1, 2, or 3) and the Raptors win next year.

Very fair post and I was interested to see that Penn Lottery case. I would assume that this makes sense if it's the type of machine where you have to reach a certain height for the ball to be chosen, and if there is only 1 combination of numbers that were needed (as was the case in that Penn lotto machine and lottery). However, in the NBA draft 4 balls are chosen for EACH team (that correlate to a bunch of 4 digit codes that are randomly assigned and placed on a board for each team to see throughout the draft. Whoever has the highest odds gets 25% of those codes and on downwards). Obviously, if it was a situation where only certain balls were weighted to reach the height to be chosen (ala the Penn lottery where only 4's and 6's could be chosen and the result was 666), then this pattern would be ridiculously obvious after the 7th ball or so. Being that there's 50+ balls chosen in total, these I'm sure these owners and auditors would be keen to something being up.

Also, if I'm not mistaken the balls are weighed directly in front of the representatives by the 3rd party auditors right before they're placed in.

The thing that makes little sense to me aside from it being seemingly impossible to rig, is the fact that giving the Bulls - an already decent team who had a down year due to injury after hitting the 2nd round in the playoffs the year prior, and were consistently the #1 or 2 team in attendance prior to Rose getting there - does not add up. People like to play the "that's where they grew up" card, but how does this make any sense? Are you telling me Lebron is less popular if he ends up going to Denver that year instead of Cleveland, or Rose to the Heat or Knicks (the #1 and #5 in that draft)? Of course not. And the NBA as a whole is no better off for it either.

The issue with companies like Enron is that they are not run in any way similar to a professional sports league with 30 different owners who are all battling one another. The money all went straight to the top at Enron, so exploiting people to make more of it was not a conflict of interest in their crooked minds (so long as they don't get caught).

Vinny642
05-17-2013, 03:09 PM
Weighted ping pong balls doesnt mean anything though... because each team has a bunch of solutions that could get them the pick. Each team needs a four number combo

urban85disciple
05-17-2013, 03:17 PM
^The hometown argument isn't to benefit the player, its to the benefit of the team(s). Cleveland became a much more popular team with Lebron there which increased ticket sales dramatically.

In regards to money, the league is crippled by smaller market teams. Anything they can do to increase the profits of those team would benefit the league as a whole. Could you imagine the Cavs without Lebron getting any type of television deal?

Enron is exactly like a pro sports league: team owners = shareholders. Most of the money made from the "Association" stays in the "Association," teams are separate corporate entities each with their own Federal tax IDs and everything. They're financially responsible for their own well-being in a sense.

Edit: How do we know the combos each team receives isn't already known prior to the lottery? Only one teams combo needs to hit for it to be rigged. In 2012 the Hornets were the only team in the lottery to "win." The Cavs could've been the only team rigged to win in 2011. Remember, if a team wins the lottery but their numbers, or a combo they own, hits again the balls are dropped and redrawn. We have no idea how many times that happens.

Don't get it twisted I don't really believe in conspiracies (9/11, WTC, etc.) but the NBA has shown to be so greedy and corrupt I don't doubt it a bit they'd try something like this. What risk do they have as an organization? They have no competition.

KingPosey
05-17-2013, 03:36 PM
I can't believe you actually used the word correlation here. I am not sure you actually know what that means. Speculation based on no evidence is not the same as correlation, even if you perceive a pattern.

A correlation can be proven.

Plus, the way they do the lottery is literally rig proof. It would take some ocean eleven ********.
No you don't know what a correlation is I'm pretty sure.

Mikeleafs
05-17-2013, 03:52 PM
Either OKC(Toronto's pick) or CLE.

tredigs
05-17-2013, 03:55 PM
^The hometown argument isn't to benefit the player, its to the benefit of the team(s). Cleveland became a much more popular team with Lebron there which increased ticket sales dramatically.

In regards to money, the league is crippled by smaller market teams. Anything they can do to increase the profits of those team would benefit the league as a whole. Could you imagine the Cavs without Lebron getting any type of television deal?

Enron is exactly like a pro sports league: team owners = shareholders. Most of the money made from the "Association" stays in the "Association," teams are separate corporate entities each with their own Federal tax IDs and everything. They're financially responsible for their own well-being in a sense.

Edit: How do we know the combos each team receives isn't already known prior to the lottery? Only one teams combo needs to hit for it to be rigged. In 2012 the Hornets were the only team in the lottery to "win." The Cavs could've been the only team rigged to win in 2011. Remember, if a team wins the lottery but their numbers, or a combo they own, hits again the balls are dropped and redrawn. We have no idea how many times that happens.

Don't get it twisted I don't really believe in conspiracies (9/11, WTC, etc.) but the NBA has shown to be so greedy and corrupt I don't doubt it a bit they'd try something like this. What risk do they have as an organization? They have no competition.

I realize it's a benefit to the team and that's what you're saying. My response is, "no ****". They would benefit any team they went to dramatically, regardless of what city they grew up in.

If it's a case of rigging it for small market teams, how hypocritical is it to bring up D. Rose and the "hometown" argument given that they are far from a small market and were thriving in ticket sales more so than all other teams in the NBA year after year? They already had a major TV contract, so that doesn't fly either.

Comparing shareholders to NBA owners is incorrect. The Green Bay Packers fans who can buy stock in their organization (only team in US sports who does this I believe) are shareholders in an equal vein to Enron shareholders. League owners are more like a "board", if anything. Either way the analogy isn't exactly the same; sports leagues are unique organizations.

As for rigging the balls for particular #'s, like I said previously, that would be blatantly obvious that certain #'s kept on coming up over and over and over again and draw red flags from owners that were desperate to have X pick to get X player. If it's a conspiracy, every NBA owner, the auditors, whatever media members are invited every year, and Stern are all in on it. Not likely to say the least.

Goose17
05-17-2013, 03:59 PM
If it's a conspiracy, every NBA owner, the auditors, whatever media members are invited every year, and Stern are all in on it. Not likely to say the least.

This is the part that people seem to miss. If it's a conspiracy, you would need to have almost a hundred different people involved to actually pull it off without anyone finding out.

arkanian215
05-17-2013, 04:26 PM
0

Shlumpledink
05-17-2013, 04:44 PM
Lakers/Heat. The league is only rigged to help the Lakers/heat. I have studied the internet very closely for the past 12 years and have found that this is the overwhelming opinion. The Heat are the newcomers to the NBA rigging, but anything they do that is positive can be easily dismissed! So the Lakers and the Heat will get the first 3 picks of the nba draft. Book it.

Guppyfighter
05-17-2013, 04:49 PM
No you don't know what a correlation is I'm pretty sure.

" statistical relationship between two random variables or two sets of data."

Yeah, what he posted was not a correlation.

urban85disciple
05-17-2013, 08:22 PM
I realize it's a benefit to the team and that's what you're saying. My response is, "no ****". They would benefit any team they went to dramatically, regardless of what city they grew up in.

If it's a case of rigging it for small market teams, how hypocritical is it to bring up D. Rose and the "hometown" argument given that they are far from a small market and were thriving in ticket sales more so than all other teams in the NBA year after year? They already had a major TV contract, so that doesn't fly either.

When did I bring up Rose?


Comparing shareholders to NBA owners is incorrect. The Green Bay Packers fans who can buy stock in their organization (only team in US sports who does this I believe) are shareholders in an equal vein to Enron shareholders. League owners are more like a "board", if anything. Either way the analogy isn't exactly the same; sports leagues are unique organizations.

This is wrong. First, the Packers aren't in the NBA last time I checked. Second, team owners are nothing like a board. They own a business. Each team is a business. Those business are "invested" in the league. Selling a team is essentially the same as selling your shares. I'm not sure if you know what a comparison is. Sports teams are unique organizations.


As for rigging the balls for particular #'s, like I said previously, that would be blatantly obvious that certain #'s kept on coming up over and over and over again and draw red flags from owners that were desperate to have X pick to get X player. If it's a conspiracy, every NBA owner, the auditors, whatever media members are invited every year, and Stern are all in on it. Not likely to say the least.

All you need is one outcome in three draws. Would a drawing of 1-7-12-14, 2-4-7-12, and
3-7-11-14 seem suspicious enough to someone to question the lottery?

--23--
05-17-2013, 08:27 PM
It's rigged if Orlando or Sacramento wins it lol

tredigs
05-17-2013, 09:37 PM
When did I bring up Rose?



This is wrong. First, the Packers aren't in the NBA last time I checked. Second, team owners are nothing like a board. They own a business. Each team is a business. Those business are "invested" in the league. Selling a team is essentially the same as selling your shares. I'm not sure if you know what a comparison is. Sports teams are unique organizations.



All you need is one outcome in three draws. Would a drawing of 1-7-12-14, 2-4-7-12, and
3-7-11-14 seem suspicious enough to someone to question the lottery?

I thought you mentioned Rose for Chi, but looking back I see you didn't. That's one that we hear in this rigging nonsense all the time, though. And I think you mentioned something about rigging it for home team players - which would be implying him. And you did mention Ewing to the Knicks. Same hypocrisy there when your argument is that they rig it to lift up small markets. Make up your mind.

Team owners are very much like a corporate board in sole sense that they each have a vote in many of the biggest decisions that the league has to make (IE the vote for whether or not the Kings can be sold to Seatle). The last I checked, AT&T did not have a vote in whether or not Sprint can sell itself off to another investor. The owners are indeed running their own organization as a part of the greater association, which makes them CEO's, not stock holders. And them making the most money possible for their personal team is paramount to them, that I can guarantee (hence me saying they are unique and not like either). There are no stock holders in the NBA (owners or otherwise) - the only stock holders are Green Bay fans (yes, in the NFL - not NBA) who own shares.

You just listed 7 different balls that could come up. I can't even follow how you're rigging that in this theoretical.

Max.This
05-18-2013, 01:21 AM
Come on people, just take a step back and think about it. NBA is a business, the question is why wouldn't they rig it to generate views, and more profits for themselves? Do they even care about fairness, cause last I checked, that didn't put food on the table....

Guppyfighter
05-18-2013, 03:14 AM
Come on people, just take a step back and think about it. NBA is a business, the question is why wouldn't they rig it to generate views, and more profits for themselves? Do they even care about fairness, cause last I checked, that didn't put food on the table....

It's a good question. Why risk losing billions of dollars to improve the business end of one team when all teams stand to gain a financial increase from winning the lottery, not just the team it would be rigged for.

So, in your conclusion, they'd risk billions of dollars (while trying to have the process verified by law firms) to improve one team's standing, even though it would equally improve every team.

It's a business, why would they care about one team.

todu82
05-18-2013, 07:34 AM
Sacramento especially when you consider all the news surrounding that team as of late.

ManRam
05-18-2013, 09:33 AM
For everybody saying its not rigged because the positives don't outweigh the risks: Bernie Madoff, Enron, Worldcom, Waste Management, QWest, Tyco, Satyam... I could go on, but point is people will do anything for money. I know for a fact that "independent" auditors mean absolutely nothing if a specific outcome is desired and the auditors are willing to risk being compensated heavily.

No one can say for certain that the NBA lottery is or isn't rigged. And really, who cares? The only people it really affects are the millionaire and billionaire owners. I actually believe it is rigged in year's where it absolutely needs to be (85 Knicks, 2003/2011 Cavs, 2012 Hornets).

And for people who don't believe weighted ping pong balls make a difference:
1980 PA Lottery Scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Pennsylvania_Lottery_scandal)

Edit: I'm really interested to see if the Kings win the lottery this year (1, 2, or 3) and the Raptors win next year.

this is fair. but if the league has been rigging it for 30+ years now, and not one shred of legit evidence exists...well.....

your 1980 lottery argument is weak for a few reasons. 1. they weigh the balls in front of all the reps and all the third parties. 2. the balls are inspected by all those same people 3. those guys got busted. no one could pull that off now.

sure, it shows that people try to do it, but it also shows how the NBA tries to prevent it and how easy people get caught.

THE MTL
05-18-2013, 11:28 AM
I can see it going to Orlando since they just lost Howard. Or Sacramento, it looks like the NBA loves them since they blocked the move to Seattle eventhough Seattle's offer was 75 million more.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-18-2013, 11:45 AM
I don't think it matters. By all accounts this draft class is terrible

pd1dish
05-18-2013, 11:58 AM
Great thread! Just goes to show that you can make-up a story line for whoever you want as to why they got the number 1 pick. Shut up the conspiracists before they even start!

Having said that I could see Orlando (because they have the best chance more than anything else) following the trend of Cleveland getting the number 1 pick after Lebron left, and Hornets getting the number 1 pick after CP3 left (but I don't necessarily think it was rigged to come out like that).

But then again if they would just televise the damn picks then we could know for sure that it wasn't rigged. The fact that they are unwilling to do that, and all we see is an envelope come out of room where they could be doing God knows what in there does make me question the whole process.

I have no idea if they already do something like this, but if they are unwilling to televise the process, then they need to allow one representative from each team to be in the room while the picking process is going on. this would quiet the conspiracy theorists, but like you said, it causes even me to question the process as well with the way things currently are.

anyways, i would pick Charlotte or Orlando. giving the pick to Charlotte makes sense. they have been horrible for so long and it would help protect Jordan's legacy if they got better. and helping Jordan succeed can only help make the NBA better. i chose Orlando because, like others said, the last 2 years were teams who had just lost a superstar so it could be compensation for Dwight.

ManRam
05-18-2013, 12:13 PM
I have no idea if they already do something like this, but if they are unwilling to televise the process, then they need to allow one representative from each team to be in the room while the picking process is going on. this would quiet the conspiracy theorists, but like you said, it causes even me to question the process as well with the way things currently are.

they do . if you've read a lot of the posts defending the draft lottery, you'd also see that not only does every team have a rep there, but they have independent 3rd party reps there too.

gatkins11
05-18-2013, 03:11 PM
Hopefully Dallas but that's not happening. Lol.

urban85disciple
05-18-2013, 06:43 PM
this is fair. but if the league has been rigging it for 30+ years now, and not one shred of legit evidence exists...well.....

your 1980 lottery argument is weak for a few reasons. 1. they weigh the balls in front of all the reps and all the third parties. 2. the balls are inspected by all those same people 3. those guys got busted. no one could pull that off now.

sure, it shows that people try to do it, but it also shows how the NBA tries to prevent it and how easy people get caught.

How is an example of an event that actually happened a weak argument? My only point was to prove that weighing ping pong balls does actually affect the outcome because someone said it didn't work. They also weren't easily caught. It was actually the opposite; their greed caused them to get caught (and leaking tips in bars), otherwise they would've gotten away with it no problem. The balls are only inspected for accuracy by the witnesses. They are weighed by an official.

Its impossible to say no one could pull this off with the tech we have now. And last time I checked people still cheat, rob, and steal by any means necessary, successfully.

Also, when has anyone said they've rigged the lottery for 30+ years? The lottery has only existed since 1985.

urban85disciple
05-18-2013, 06:56 PM
they do . if you've read a lot of the posts defending the draft lottery, you'd also see that not only does every team have a rep there, but they have independent 3rd party reps there too.

1. Every team does not have a rep at the lottery, just the lottery teams.
2. None of the reps weigh the balls, they only watch them inserted into the machine(s) in numerical order.
3. People need to read this article: http://www.nba.com/features/inside_lottery_050524.html
(http://www.nba.com/features/inside_lottery_050524.html). A witness detailed the 2005 nba draft lottery. Notice something weird with the numbers? The #14 ball came up in every single drawing even the 11-12-13-14 which doesn't count. Not one person thought that was suspicious.

I'm still not saying the draft is rigged but it very well could be.

ManRam
05-18-2013, 07:34 PM
1. Every team does not have a rep at the lottery, just the lottery teams.
2. None of the reps weigh the balls, they only watch them inserted into the machine(s) in numerical order.
3. People need to read this article: http://www.nba.com/features/inside_lottery_050524.html
(http://www.nba.com/features/inside_lottery_050524.html). A witness detailed the 2005 nba draft lottery. Notice something weird with the numbers? The #14 ball came up in every single drawing even the 11-12-13-14 which doesn't count. Not one person thought that was suspicious.

I'm still not saying the draft is rigged but it very well could be.

1. well yeah. that's what i meant. why should other teams have reps there? they have nothing at stake
2. i've read countless times that they observe the weighing of the balls. i'll try to find a link. i could be wrong. my point stands though about it though. if they're weighting the balls, wouldn't the subsequent drawings be the same/similar. wouldn't that turn some heads?
3. a ping pong ball coming up three times in a row doesn't mean **** :laugh2: sure, it's highly improbable. but it's possible to happen by chance. there's a 28.57% chance it's drawn each drawing of 4 balls. the odds it's drawn all three combinations in a row is 2.20%. there have been how many draft lotteries now? like 20+? it's gonna happen.

BSF101
05-19-2013, 01:06 AM
I voted for the Magic and the Pelicans really?

bholly
05-19-2013, 01:24 AM
A witness detailed the 2005 nba draft lottery. Notice something weird with the numbers? The #14 ball came up in every single drawing even the 11-12-13-14 which doesn't count. Not one person thought that was suspicious.



3. a ping pong ball coming up three times in a row doesn't mean **** :laugh2: sure, it's highly improbable. but it's possible to happen by chance. there's a 28.57% chance it's drawn each drawing of 4 balls. the odds it's drawn all three combinations in a row is 2.20%. there have been how many draft lotteries now? like 20+? it's gonna happen.

It was 4 times in a row, but the point stands. Odds of 14 coming up 4 times in a row are ~0.666%. Odds of any number coming up 4 times in a row (because what's so special about 14?) are ~9%. Let's not get too worked up.

joshhorvath
05-19-2013, 01:45 AM
i believe this year the Kings will gain the #1 pick, as a way of the NBA aplogzing for the whole relocation thing and making sacramento relavent again.

Next year, with the projected #1 to be a Canadian from southern Ontario, i fully expect and anticipate the Raptors winning the lottery. It'll bring a superstar to Toronto, Wiggins is Canadian and it'll make Toronto relavent in the NBA

Vinny642
05-19-2013, 02:58 AM
The Kings will get 7th pick like every year

Phenomenonsense
05-19-2013, 11:46 AM
I think that there is a decent shot that it is rigged, but I also believe that, if it is indeed rigged, every lottery team has some input as to how it is rigged for each team and why. The only way to keep something like this quiet when there are that many parties involved is if everyone has a stake in what is happening in that room.

bholly
05-20-2013, 08:45 PM
The poll closes in a few hours (that was the only way to get it to close before the lottery), so get any last minute votes in.
I'm very happy with the turnout so far, and looking forward to the lottery.

amos1er
05-20-2013, 09:00 PM
Orlando easily based on the trend we have seen over the past years. Cleveland loses their best player and they get the number one pick. NOH loses their best player and they get the number one pick. Orlando loses their best player...

Heediot
05-20-2013, 09:30 PM
They'll rig it so Orlando wins just so they can make a claim that its not rigged. Some team like Cleveleand really won.

tr3ymill3r
05-20-2013, 09:53 PM
If the Bobcats get the pick, but then change their name back to the Hornets, do they still get to keep the pick since it should be the Bobcats pick?

Ty Fast
05-21-2013, 12:07 AM
kings

Raps18-19 Champ
05-21-2013, 12:12 AM
Most people saying Orlando/Kings. If neither one win 1st, we'll still hear the theories. I can bet if Cleveland wins, we'd here some theories. Same with Hornets.

Also, find it funny that if a team that has like 15-25% chance of winning the pick, it's automatically assumed by people to be rig, despite them having a sizable chance of actually winning.

bholly
05-21-2013, 04:47 AM
Poll is now closed, and the lottery is in about 12 hours. The results of the poll are pretty clear, with three rough tiers of teams:

Tier 1:
Orlando Magic (55 votes, 42.3% of voters)
Sacramento Kings (42, 32.3%)

Tier 2:
New Orleans Pelicans (12, 9.2%)
Charlotte Bobcats (11, 8.5%)
Toronto Raptors (9, 6.9%)
Cleveland Cavaliers (8, 6.2%)
Detroit Pistons (6, 4.6%)

Tier 3:
Phoenix Suns (3, 2.3%)
Philadelphia 76ers (3, 2.3%)
Dallas Mavericks (2, 1.5%)
Utah Jazz (1, 0.8%)
Portland Trail Blazers (1, 0.8%)
Minnesota Timberwolves (0, 0%)
Washington Wizards (0, 0%)

Note that I didn't bother removing everyone who voted three times, because it would take forever to check everyone, but I did take out the big bad ***** who voted for everyone.

Orlando and Sacto are the hot favorites for getting it rigged for them, with the Dwight and ownership angles presumably the drivers there. The lottery (if fair) gives a 31.3% chance of one of these teams winning the lottery. It'd be interesting to see if the rigged theorists consider 31.3% as evidence if it hits.
Overall, Sacramento have roughly a 25.2% chance of moving up - again, a substantial number even without rigging.

The second tier has a total chance of 49.3% of getting the top spot, meaning it's almost as likely as not.
None of them had even 10% of voters thinking they were one of the two most likely teams to get it rigged for them, although I suspect some of them will still be 'so obvious' after the fact if they move up, especially to the top spot - particularly NOH and Toronto (if they get Bennett).

The third tier has a total chance of 19.4% of getting the top spot, and it looks like a decent number of the votes for them were just hopeful home-team votes. I think even the most ardent rigged theorists would probably have a hard time arguing one of these as evidence if they got lucky.

Can't wait for the lottery.

urban85disciple
05-21-2013, 10:07 AM
Most people saying Orlando/Kings. If neither one win 1st, we'll still hear the theories. I can bet if Cleveland wins, we'd here some theories. Same with Hornets.

You do realize that there are 3 winners, right? So, the Kings winning the lottery could mean a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd pick. And the whole purpose of this thread is so nobody can go back and say "I told you Cleveland would win" but voted for Orlando and Charlotte.


Also, find it funny that if a team that has like 15-25% chance of winning the pick, it's automatically assumed by people to be rig, despite them having a sizable chance of actually winning.

I actually agree with the this. How would it be rigged for Orlando if Orlando has a ~25% chance of winning the first pick already? I think the poll shouldn't have included the top(or bottom?) 3 teams.

Vinny642
05-21-2013, 10:21 AM
I dont see it rigged if the Magic win it since they have the best chance anyway

ManRam
05-21-2013, 10:31 AM
this whole thread proves exactly why using "the league is rigged because so-and-so got the pick" isn't an argument at all. we already have excuses made for essentially all the teams involved. we're actively seeking reasons to justify out conspiracy theories.

NYKnickFanatic
05-21-2013, 12:03 PM
Orlando will clearly win that ****. No question about it. Praise Jesus, I love God.

bholly
05-21-2013, 07:04 PM
I actually agree with the this. How would it be rigged for Orlando if Orlando has a ~25% chance of winning the first pick already? I think the poll shouldn't have included the top(or bottom?) 3 teams.

I understand what you're saying, but I left Orlando (and others) in for a few reasons.
For one thing, if I started making poll decisions based on lottery odds then that'd encourage voters to consider lottery odds when voting - when what I actually wanted was to find out the most convincing rigged storylines regardless of odds. I think that worked (as evidenced by how many votes Sacto got, despite being quite far down the list).
Secondly, if the league were rigging the lottery, they could still rig it for the team with the best odds. Orlando have the best odds of winning, but their most likely spot (with a 35.7% chance) is 4th. Their average pick, based on the lottery odds, should be 2.6. I think them winning wouldn't be evidence of rigging in itself, which I think is what you mean, because 25% is a really high chance without rigging, but that doesn't mean they can't be rigged for and couldn't be part of broader evidence across many drafts.
Thirdly, and probably most importantly, if exclude Orlando (or anyone else), then if they win we get everyone saying 'it was obvious, and I would've voted for them if I could', and at the same time had 50 more votes spread amongst other teams making at least a few of them 'obvious' if they hit. It was better to include Orlando and allow everyone two votes than to just exclude them.

StriveGreatness
05-21-2013, 07:06 PM
Pistons are gonna win it

sneak
05-21-2013, 07:07 PM
Stern wants Kings to stay in Seattle and if Owners vote that way Stern will give Kings #1 pick.

What?

detzfish
05-21-2013, 07:08 PM
I used to think it was rigged but I doubt it now since a case could really be made for every team. If Cleveland wins it everyone will say LeBron is headed back to a core of Irving waiters Thompson and Noel. Would be damn good

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-21-2013, 07:41 PM
this whole thread proves exactly why using "the league is rigged because so-and-so got the pick" isn't an argument at all. we already have excuses made for essentially all the teams involved. we're actively seeking reasons to justify out conspiracy theories.

I don't think they know that. I mean, it is the NBA forum we're talking about here.

ManRam
05-21-2013, 07:52 PM
the other thing i don't get from the OP is all this "compensation" talk.

since when do people who think this **** believe stern is some merciful person? i mean, i don't even think he's a merciful person, and i don't buy into most of the conspiracy talk. why would he bother rigging things just to please fans or teams? he's not dumb. the only way i'd buy into rigging is if the financial gains from it were astronomical. they'd never rig anything, and risk getting exposed, just to "compensate" something.

bholly
05-21-2013, 08:14 PM
^Haha, that's a good point I never thought about - especially because the people who think it's rigged tend to be bigger Stern haters than anyone. I assume a lot of the time they sort of justify it by convincing themselves it was part of some explicit agreement made before (or as part of) the deal they're getting compensated for - like with Orlando trading Dwight or NOH trading CP3 - but I don't see how they think that works with the Cavs after losing LBJ or whatever. Maybe they think he wants to keep the currently-profitable franchises profitable? But yeah, obviously there's just about no way the actual reward for rigging it exceeds the risk.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-21-2013, 08:30 PM
Surprised that no one has made the uninformative post yet saying that OKC will win it because of what happened yesterday.

lamzoka
05-21-2013, 08:33 PM
why cant they just broadcast the lottery live? like the megamillions or powerball

bholly
05-21-2013, 08:40 PM
why cant they just broadcast the lottery live? like the megamillions or powerball

I think it's a few things. Firstly, I think the reverse order thing make for better television, while the actual lottery picks #1 then #2 then #3.
Secondly, the lottery itself is boring watching - unless you memorize all your team's 4-digit lottery combinations (which is as many as 250 for Orlando) then you're just going to be seeing a bunch of meaningless numbers and then waiting for them to tell you which team it is.
Thirdly, it's additionally boring and hard to schedule because not every draw counts - if a team has already been picked, then if one of their combinations comes up again they just redraw. You could have a bunch of meaningless draws, which makes it boring, and more importantly makes it really hard to schedule into a live television show.

I don't know why they don't make the footage available afterwards, but it makes total sense that they don't do it live - they want to make good television and get the advertising revenue.

YoungOne
05-21-2013, 08:43 PM
I have the kings, but not as sure about that as last year where I picked NO...

FYL_McVeezy
05-21-2013, 08:48 PM
I have the kings, but not as sure about that as last year where I picked NO...

kings or magic for me...

lamzoka
05-21-2013, 08:52 PM
man no luck for the cats lol
nerlen noels happy as hell he's not going to charlotte lol

YoungOne
05-21-2013, 08:52 PM
bobcats will never get it :D

lamzoka
05-21-2013, 08:54 PM
I think it's a few things. Firstly, I think the reverse order thing make for better television, while the actual lottery picks #1 then #2 then #3.
Secondly, the lottery itself is boring watching - unless you memorize all your team's 4-digit lottery combinations (which is as many as 250 for Orlando) then you're just going to be seeing a bunch of meaningless numbers and then waiting for them to tell you which team it is.
Thirdly, it's additionally boring and hard to schedule because not every draw counts - if a team has already been picked, then if one of their combinations comes up again they just redraw. You could have a bunch of meaningless draws, which makes it boring, and more importantly makes it really hard to schedule into a live television show.

I don't know why they don't make the footage available afterwards, but it makes total sense that they don't do it live - they want to make good television and get the advertising revenue.

that explains it all

sunsfan88
05-21-2013, 08:54 PM
Bill crap, Suns get screwed again...Washington better not get a top 2 pick.

YoungOne
05-21-2013, 08:55 PM
lol cavs again...

sunsfan88
05-21-2013, 08:55 PM
Unbelievable....the Cavs again...

FYL_McVeezy
05-21-2013, 08:55 PM
Cavs get #1 pick AGAIN?!?!? :laugh:

lamzoka
05-21-2013, 08:56 PM
cavs gonna be a scary team in 2 years. noels + irving and lebron

Raps18-19 Champ
05-21-2013, 08:56 PM
So Cavs win and the theories have been foiled based on the results. I can't wait for the new theories!

Heediot
05-21-2013, 08:57 PM
They'll rig it so Orlando wins just so they can make a claim that its not rigged. Some team like Cleveleand really won.

Boom! Got the rig part to Orlando wrong though.

FYL_McVeezy
05-21-2013, 08:58 PM
cavs gonna be a scary team in 2 years. noels + irving and lebron

:laugh:

lamzoka
05-21-2013, 08:58 PM
-

bholly
05-21-2013, 08:59 PM
Exclusive video of the actual drawing on NBA.com. Finally!

YoungOne
05-21-2013, 09:05 PM
Exclusive video of the actual drawing on NBA.com. Finally!

I like it!

tredigs
05-21-2013, 09:05 PM
This is a shot straight to the baby maker for draft conspirators.

lamzoka
05-21-2013, 09:11 PM
Exclusive video of the actual drawing on NBA.com. Finally!

i was just watching it, that **** was making no sense to me

bholly
05-21-2013, 09:11 PM
The results:

Tier 1:
Orlando Magic (55 votes, 42.3% of voters) - Down 1 spot
Sacramento Kings (42, 32.3%) - Down 1

Tier 2:
New Orleans Pelicans (12, 9.2%) - Down 1
Charlotte Bobcats (11, 8.5%) - Down 2
Toronto Raptors (9, 6.9%) - Stayed
Cleveland Cavaliers (8, 6.2%) - Up 2
Detroit Pistons (6, 4.6%) - Down 2

Tier 3:
Phoenix Suns (3, 2.3%) - Down 1
Philadelphia 76ers (3, 2.3%) - Stayed
Dallas Mavericks (2, 1.5%) - Stayed
Utah Jazz (1, 0.8%) - Stayed
Portland Trail Blazers (1, 0.8%) - Stayed
Minnesota Timberwolves (0, 0%) - Stayed
Washington Wizards (0, 0%) - Up 5

So both the premiere 'rigged' teams slipped down a spot. One tier 2 team moved up two spots, and another tier two team with more votes moved down 2 spots.
The big winner - Washington - had literally zero legitimate votes for their rigged storyline.

And on top of that, the actual drawing was broadcast and looked legit.

Tough tough year for the rigged conspiracy.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-21-2013, 09:24 PM
i was just watching it, that **** was making no sense to me

Basically, each team is given 4 number combinations (some teams have more combinations that others) and when that number is drawn, the team who owns that 4 number combination gets the pick. So when they yell out something like "3 5 6 12", whoever was assigned that pick gets it. The number combinations are assinged based on best odds (Orlando) then goes one. So Orlando got "1 2 3 4", "1 2 3 5", etc or whatever combination then it goes on from there. Since Orlando got the worst record, they had 250 different combinations while worst team got like 8 different combinations.

bholly
05-21-2013, 09:38 PM
Basically, each team is given 4 number combinations (some teams have more combinations that others) and when that number is drawn, the team who owns that 4 number combination gets the pick. So when they yell out something like "3 5 6 12", whoever was assigned that pick gets it. The number combinations are assinged based on best odds (Orlando) then goes one. So Orlando got "1 2 3 4", "1 2 3 5", etc or whatever combination then it goes on from there. Since Orlando got the worst record, they had 250 different combinations while worst team got like 8 different combinations.

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure they assign the combinations to teams randomly, rather than give them out in an ordered fashion. Otherwise Orlando, for example, would have 250 of the 286 combinations with 1 in it and they'd be open to the accusation that the league could weight the 1 ball or whatever and make it more likely Orlando won. By randomizing, the balls are spread out evenly across the teams and you don't get that chance.

Not sure if you were suggesting they assign them in an ordered way, or just giving two examples of combinations, but worth pointing out anyway.

BSF101
05-21-2013, 09:38 PM
The Cavs were the last team I expected to get the number one pick.

lamzoka
05-21-2013, 09:47 PM
Basically, each team is given 4 number combinations (some teams have more combinations that others) and when that number is drawn, the team who owns that 4 number combination gets the pick. So when they yell out something like "3 5 6 12", whoever was assigned that pick gets it. The number combinations are assinged based on best odds (Orlando) then goes one. So Orlando got "1 2 3 4", "1 2 3 5", etc or whatever combination then it goes on from there. Since Orlando got the worst record, they had 250 different combinations while worst team got like 8 different combinations.


Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure they assign the combinations to teams randomly, rather than give them out in an ordered fashion. Otherwise Orlando, for example, would have 250 of the 286 combinations with 1 in it and they'd be open to the accusation that the league could weight the 1 ball or whatever and make it more likely Orlando won. By randomizing, the balls are spread out evenly across the teams and you don't get that chance.

Not sure if you were suggesting they assign them in an ordered way, or just giving two examples of combinations, but worth pointing out anyway.


i think im just gonna stick to watching the lottery on ESPN.

bholly
05-21-2013, 09:50 PM
^Yup. Haha, like I said earlier, it's much better television!

Raps18-19 Champ
05-21-2013, 10:19 PM
Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure they assign the combinations to teams randomly, rather than give them out in an ordered fashion. Otherwise Orlando, for example, would have 250 of the 286 combinations with 1 in it and they'd be open to the accusation that the league could weight the 1 ball or whatever and make it more likely Orlando won. By randomizing, the balls are spread out evenly across the teams and you don't get that chance.

Not sure if you were suggesting they assign them in an ordered way, or just giving two examples of combinations, but worth pointing out anyway.

Yea, I was jsut giving 2 examples of combinations.

ManRam
05-22-2013, 08:59 AM
So both the premiere 'rigged' teams slipped down a spot. One tier 2 team moved up two spots, and another tier two team with more votes moved down 2 spots.
The big winner - Washington - had literally zero legitimate votes for their rigged storyline.

And on top of that, the actual drawing was broadcast and looked legit.

Tough tough year for the rigged conspiracy.

i was amazed that no one on my twitter mentioned a conspiracy, and i (obviously) follow a ton of magic fans.

nice to see a blow to the arguments. however, we know that compelling evidence rarely can alter what people who believe in conspiracies (harmless ones or not) think.

king4day
05-22-2013, 09:59 AM
I'm thrilled that it was aired. I'd much rather know it's real and that my team does in fact have a chance to win it than to have doubt.

BklynKnicks3
05-22-2013, 10:03 AM
shocked cavs aint get votes lebrons next all star team is forming right in time for his 2nd shortcut

BklynKnicks3
05-22-2013, 10:04 AM
i was watching the draft with like 7 poeople we where all saying here comes the 3rd of lebrons next big 3

ManRam
05-22-2013, 10:16 AM
shocked cavs aint get votes lebrons next all star team is forming right in time for his 2nd shortcut

why would the nba want lebron back in cleveland?

NYJ - NYY
05-22-2013, 10:29 AM
why would the nba want lebron back in cleveland?

for "the comeback"

ManRam
05-22-2013, 10:31 AM
for "the comeback"

i'd imagine they'd prefer him in NY/LA/CHI than making a comeback in cleveland

NYJ - NYY
05-22-2013, 10:36 AM
i'd imagine they'd prefer him in NY/LA/CHI than making a comeback in cleveland

sterns out after this year.. who knows maybe small market with a big story makes sense :shrug:

edit: by me saying sterns out maybe the association doesnt always go for the bigger markets

urban85disciple
05-22-2013, 10:42 AM
I still believe the draft is rigged in certain years but the excuses from these "radical" conspiracy theorists are hilarious. The Cavs won to prepare for Lebron's comeback? I'm sorry but Kyrie, Waiters, Noel, and Thompson are not enough to make Lebron return to Cleveland. I can admit that I didn't see the Cavs or Wiz winning this at all. All I can say is that someone really hates the Bobcats.

Btw, did anybody see how pissed Keith Smart was when the pulled the Kings' card? He just knew he was gonna be in the top 3.

BklynKnicks3
05-22-2013, 11:14 AM
Lebron will be big anywhere Those teams ny chi la will make there money regardless. I thought he was going to the cavs before the lottery now iam almost certain
i'd imagine they'd prefer him in NY/LA/CHI than making a comeback in cleveland