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View Full Version : IF OKC loses to Memphis, does it MAKE KD look worse, or RWB look better?



Sactown
05-12-2013, 02:40 AM
If OKC loses to Memphis, who does to affect more?

KD stock drops

RWB stock rises

KD stock drops as much as RWB stock rises

Neither stock drops nor raises, we knew who they were before this series.


P.S. I'm not saying OKC is going to lose to Memphis, but was just interested on peoples opinions

Hellcrooner
05-12-2013, 02:42 AM
neither.

Sactown
05-12-2013, 02:44 AM
neither.

Did you see this coming? Has KD been better or worse than you thought?

Vinny642
05-12-2013, 02:44 AM
Westbrook look better

b@llhog24
05-12-2013, 02:45 AM
It's Westbrooks fault. Get with the program.

Hellcrooner
05-12-2013, 02:48 AM
Did you see this coming? Has KD been better or worse than you thought?

did i see it coming that a team CANNOT win with only one " star" nowdays specially if they play against a real TEAM ORIENTED team?

:rolleyes:

Sactown
05-12-2013, 02:50 AM
did i see it coming that a team CANNOT win with only one " star" nowdays specially if they play against a real TEAM ORIENTED team?

:rolleyes:

OKC struggled against Houston which I don't consider a REAL TEAM ORIENTED TEAM...

I'm asking if you projected the drop off to be of this magnitude, but sure, you can sit on your high horse.

More-Than-Most
05-12-2013, 02:54 AM
Both. I did not see the both option but its both.... Westbrook is underrated and KD is a bit overrated. He is great but not in the league of the King

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 02:55 AM
A little of both it shows that kd can't do it by himself n that maybe Westbrook is actually the better player on that team. Still think kd is 2nd to Lebrons for best player but it makes you wonder

Sactown
05-12-2013, 02:57 AM
Both. I did not see the both option but its both.... Westbrook is underrated and KD is a bit overrated. He is great but not in the league of the King

Yeah I agree with this, I definitely didn't think KD had as many holes in his game as he does, and I didn't think Westbrook had this type of impact on everyone else game, or the mentality of the team

ThaDubs
05-12-2013, 02:57 AM
Westbrook is worse without KD and vice versa so I guess neither?

tredigs
05-12-2013, 02:58 AM
I don't think many people expected OKC to beat Memphis. Even with Westbrook it would have been a tough fight, but one they would have won.

Durant's putting up 33/9/6 on >60% TS% and leading the playoffs in PER and Win Shares. Carrying his team night after night. What's surprising is the drop off from Kevin Martin and Serge offensively. With Martin it's worse as he does exactly nothing else in a basketball game but score. Even getting fairly open looks, their confidence just is not there.

It should definitely highlight to those who did not get it how important Westbrook is, though.

Sactown
05-12-2013, 03:01 AM
I don't think many people expected OKC to beat Memphis. Even with Westbrook it would have been a tough fight, but one they would have won.

Durant's putting up 33/9/6 on >60% TS% and leading the playoffs in PER and Win Shares. Carrying his team night after night. What's surprising is the drop off from Kevin Martin and Serge offensively. With Martin it's worse as he does exactly nothing else in a basketball game but score. Even getting fairly open looks, their confidence just is not there.

It should definitely highlight to those who did not get it how important Westbrook is, though.

Alright, so your opinion is, that you think Westbrook had a bigger impact on everyone else's game than most would of thought.

bigmac8675
05-12-2013, 03:02 AM
It makes Memphis and Lionel Hollins look good... thats about it IMO.

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 03:03 AM
I always wondered why the hell does Westbrook take most of the shots and kd just let's him do him. I used to dislike Westbrook but once I started looking at him as their best option then it all made sense. Okc is his team not durant

tredigs
05-12-2013, 03:09 AM
Alright, so your opinion is, that you think Westbrook had a bigger impact on everyone else's game than most would of thought.

Well, the dropoff between him and Reggie Jackson is massive, and KD + Ibaka are no longer seeing the easy cuts for dunks that they got with Westbrook there. KD's good enough that he's taking over some extra playmaking duties and still scoring with the same efficiency, but everybody else is taking a hit.

I think it's more than just Westbrook himself, though. It's a different offense that they just might not be comfortable learning on the fly, and Martin + Ibaka are just flat struggling more than they should with or without Russell. With Ibaka it's more understandable because he's seeing less dunks from Westbrook's slashes, but Martin was shooting 33% even in the two games Westbrook was in. So basically he's just dropped the ball on their team and now KD is left with no #2.


I always wondered why the hell does Westbrook take most of the shots and kd just let's him do him. I used to dislike Westbrook but once I started looking at him as their best option then it all made sense. Okc is his team not durant

lmao @ this.

naps
05-12-2013, 03:09 AM
Neither. KD is doing what one man can do but it's just not enough with Westy being out. Westy is a major part of OKC's success so ofcourse his void is gonna be felt.

Chronz
05-12-2013, 03:10 AM
Had them pegged from the start, KD is quite possibly the best scorer of all time, not having Westbrook around allowed him to showcase that ability, but it also compounds a minor shortcoming. Hes not a brilliant all-around playmaker that can create quality looks nonstop. About the only thing I got right this PS, hoping the Pacers can salvage my post season earnings.

Without RWB, they dont have the talent to match opposing teams, but KD has more than upped his game, he shouldn't get **** for this. Hes having a Jerry West/Wilt Chamberlain moment (only the initiated get that reference), expecting him to carry a team to victory is expecting damn near the unprecedented

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 03:14 AM
Well, the dropoff between him and Reggie Jackson is massive, and KD + Ibaka are no longer seeing the easy cuts for dunks that they got with Westbrook there. KD's good enough that he's taking over some extra playmaking duties and still scoring with the same efficiency, but everybody else is taking a hit.

I think it's more than just Westbrook himself, though. It's a different offense that they just might not be comfortable learning on the fly, and Martin + Ibaka are just flat struggling more than they should with or without Russell. With Ibaka it's more understandable because he's seeing less dunks from Westbrook's slashes, but Martin was shooting 33% even in the two games Westbrook was in. So basically he's just dropped the ball on their team and now KD is left with no #2.



lmao @ this.

It's true. If kd had westbrooks motor and willingness to shoot he would avg 40 easily and would win MVP every year of his career

YoungOne
05-12-2013, 03:18 AM
nobody said the thunder are better just without westbrook, but I think they would be better if they had given that max money to harden instead or another player of max money caliber.

Chronz
05-12-2013, 03:24 AM
It's true. If kd had westbrooks motor and willingness to shoot he would avg 40 easily and would win MVP every year of his career
Did you just say average 40 easily?
As if scoring 40 is something that can be attained with such effort?

Win MVP every year of his career? As if the award was based solely on the individual?


Are you 12?

JC_
05-12-2013, 03:37 AM
Durant is an amazing scorer but the other parts of his game aren't really anywhere near his scoring ability.. I think pretty much everyone knew this already and we also knew that Westbrook is a special player who has crazy athleticism.. yes Westbrook has shot them out of a game before but IMO he's the x factor. I guess it just makes OKC look weaker than we thought it might be without Westbrook, which has a lot to do with the other guys on the team not doing much to fill the void.

zn23
05-12-2013, 03:50 AM
I don't think it makes KD look worse. But it clearly shows how important RWB is to this team. You have morons like Skip Bayless calling him Westbrick and blaming him for the Thunder failures. When it should have been obvious to anyone who was watching the Thunder after the ASG that RWB has been that teams best player.

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 03:52 AM
Did you just say average 40 easily?
As if scoring 40 is something that can be attained with such effort?

Win MVP every year of his career? As if the award was based solely on the individual?


Are you 12?

Do you know anything about basketball? Doesn't sound like it.

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 03:57 AM
Had them pegged from the start, KD is quite possibly the best scorer of all time, not having Westbrook around allowed him to showcase that ability, but it also compounds a minor shortcoming. Hes not a brilliant all-around playmaker that can create quality looks nonstop. About the only thing I got right this PS, hoping the Pacers can salvage my post season earnings.

Without RWB, they dont have the talent to match opposing teams, but KD has more than upped his game, he shouldn't get **** for this. Hes having a Jerry West/Wilt Chamberlain moment (only the initiated get that reference), expecting him to carry a team to victory is expecting damn near the unprecedented

First you say kd best scorer of all time possibly now u disagree with me about him avg 40 handily??? Make up ya mind homeslice

SteveZissou
05-12-2013, 03:58 AM
Is it really that difficult to understand. Durant needs westbrook....or more so a second superstar level talent. The argument isn't whether Westbrook is a superstar Talent. He is. Its more the tendency of how Westbrook gets into taking poor shot selections to soon in the shot clock that make you scratch your head like, " why the hell did he rush that."
JC_ hit the nail on the head. The loss of Westbrook just shows how weak the thunder team is overall with one superstar. Ibaka is a decent Starter but no superstar.
Do you guys honestly believe that Westbrook would be faring any better if it were Durant that was the one thats injured

Chronz
05-12-2013, 04:09 AM
First you say kd best scorer of all time possibly now u disagree with me about him avg 40 handily??? Make up ya mind homeslice
You must think scoring is solely about your point total. Thats sad


Do you know anything about basketball? Doesn't sound like it.
Said the guy who thinks MVP is solely about the individual

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 04:22 AM
You must think scoring is solely about your point total. Thats sad


Said the guy who thinks MVP is solely about the individual

We're talking points period not total offense & only one person wins MVP not the whole team

sep11ie
05-12-2013, 04:46 AM
did i see it coming that a team CANNOT win with only one " star" nowdays specially if they play against a real TEAM ORIENTED team?

:rolleyes:

wTf, yew wouldent be sayin that if a GAsoL wasNot oN the gRizzz!?!?

sammyvine
05-12-2013, 04:57 AM
thunder still won't win with westbrook although they are better with him

westbrook takes shots away from durant most of the times, isnt as efficient, meaning they will lose games against the better teams when it matters.

i think durant would have been better with harden.

Shlomi
05-12-2013, 05:48 AM
i think that durant is the best player in the world, and that wesbtrook is the best PG in the past year, but the players around them...and the couch...is just not enough

Kevj77
05-12-2013, 06:09 AM
Yeah I agree with this, I definitely didn't think KD had as many holes in his game as he does, and I didn't think Westbrook had this type of impact on everyone else game, or the mentality of the teamOf course he did. A player that can be a primary ball handler, attack the rim, create his own shot and draw a double team will always have a huge impact.

How many players are there that can do all that?

GoferKing_
05-12-2013, 06:53 AM
It would mean that Memphis is better than OKC.

Iron24th
05-12-2013, 06:59 AM
It makes KD worse, I thought he was a better leader.

Shlomi
05-12-2013, 07:00 AM
Of course he did. A player that can be a primary ball handler, attack the rim, create his own shot and draw a double team will always have a huge impact.

How many players are there that can do all that?

Westbrook is A player that very resembles Jordan in his Explosiveness, this combination of power, speed, and flexibility that he brings to the game is amazing.

RLundi
05-12-2013, 07:26 AM
Skip Bayless is gonna be sucking on some serious crow.

tr3ymill3r
05-12-2013, 07:48 AM
Where is the box to vote for the Ibaka stock dropping along with RWB stock rising. It's not fair to judge the Thunder this post season based on everything that has happened, but it sure does appear as if they messed their team up without realizing it. They thought Ibaka, Westbrook and Durant could be a big 3, but Ibaka is the same player with Westbrook, Durant and Harden as he is with just Durant. I think this series should finally show that Ibaka isn't the player or on par with the others and not a superstar like they thought. Westbrook is definitely going to look like a hero, but I think the lack of production and lack of improvement needs to fall on Ibaka. As a Rockets fan, thank you for Harden.

LeperMessiah
05-12-2013, 08:42 AM
We're talking about the SECOND best player in the NBA losing stock?

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 08:56 AM
It makes KD worse, I thought he was a better leader.

How idiotic is this? I mean really? Is this not a team game? If KD's teammates are playing horribly how on earth can you expect him to be a better leader. Bill Russell a player who many consider as the greatest leader ever would have a hard time making that team any better than they currently are in place of KD. You're only as strong as your weakest link and right now the Thunder have a bunch of weak links.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 09:04 AM
We're talking about the SECOND best player in the NBA losing stock?

Dwight Howard was the 2nd best player in the league two seasons ago. Now he's out of most people's top 10 while still in the prime of his career. It happens.

tr3ymill3r
05-12-2013, 09:06 AM
Serge Ibaka needs to take more of the blame, they gave up Harden for you.

time4change
05-12-2013, 09:08 AM
I don't think many people expected OKC to beat Memphis. Even with Westbrook it would have been a tough fight, but one they would have won.

Durant's putting up 33/9/6 on >60% TS% and leading the playoffs in PER and Win Shares. Carrying his team night after night. What's surprising is the drop off from Kevin Martin and Serge offensively. With Martin it's worse as he does exactly nothing else in a basketball game but score. Even getting fairly open looks, their confidence just is not there.

It should definitely highlight to those who did not get it how important Westbrook is, though.


Thank god someone else has taken notice to Durant. He really has been impressive.

JasonJohnHorn
05-12-2013, 09:36 AM
I think the person it will hurt the most is Scott Brooks. Yes, Westbrook is an amazing player, and yes, losing him is a huge deal, but at the same time they are playing a team who traded away their leading scorer and got a defender back in his place. Memphis is healthy, but they are also the fifth seed who beat a team that was injured.

I won't fault anybody in OKC should they lose, but I think Brooks is the one most deserving of the heat if they do. Kevin Martin and Ibaka are both solid offensive options that he needs to exploit. The problem though is that they really didn't have the depth to handle a loss at PG. They don't have a lot of "ball handlers" on the team. KD has gotten better at that over the course of this year, but he's not where LBJ is or where Jordan was. A vet PG backing up Westbrook would have been nice, and I mean a vet that was playing with them all year and wasn't almost 40 (not offense to Fisher, who I have great respect for, but he's not what he once was).


Their GM should have gotten a better back-up PG, and Brooks should be able to generate enough offence between Martin and Ibaka, but... it's a tough situation.

Iron24th
05-12-2013, 09:38 AM
How idiotic is this? I mean really? Is this not a team game? If KD's teammates are playing horribly how on earth can you expect him to be a better leader. Bill Russell a player who many consider as the greatest leader ever would have a hard time making that team any better than they currently are in place of KD. You're only as strong as your weakest link and right now the Thunder have a bunch of weak links.

Give all the weapons okc have to Lebron and see what happens, there is much more difference between those two players than people think.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 09:44 AM
Give all the weapons okc have to Lebron and see what happens, there is much more difference between those two players than people think.

Are you drunk? What weapons? Westbrook and Durant made Ibaka an effective scorer and Martin has been playing like garbage (one of the most inconsistent shooters in the game Orr his entire career). Do you call those weapons?

LeBron also is a different type of player in terms of the fact that his playmaking is about as equal to his scoring ability. As someone earlier said KD is a great scorer but the other aspects of his game aren't on that level.

You give prime Kobe those "weapons" what happens?

KnicksorBust
05-12-2013, 09:50 AM
Doesn't change anything for me. I'm still of the opinion that Westbrook is not an ideal PG for Durant. He's so damn talented that they make it work but I still say they should have tried to flip WB-Ibaka for Howard and held on to Harden. I said it then and now it's even more obvious how right I was.

The fact that Kevin Martin and Ibaka aren't getting it done is more a slight at the Reggie Jackson/Derek Fisher debacle than anything else. Obviously when you drop from an All-Star to bench players the team will take a hit. I'm still not counting out Durant. They win Game 4 and they get homecourt back.

MTL_123
05-12-2013, 09:59 AM
I think Kd's stock goes down a bit because even tho hes putting up great numbers their not winning. Kinda shows he cant really lead the team.And plus he has really good players on his team.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 10:04 AM
I think Kd's stock goes down a bit because even tho hes putting up great numbers their not winning. Kinda shows he cant really lead the team.And plus he has really good players on his team.

So strength of opponent has nothing to do with that? The horrible play of his teammates have nothing to do with that?

I ask you this simple question. Did Wade's stock go down when the Heat lost to the Mavs in 2011 despite him having one of the greatest Final runs we've ever seen in a win or a loss. This is a TEAM sport, no matter who you have around you if they're not performing you're going not going to play well.

You're trying to learn a new offense on the fly against the best defensive in the West. How does that reflect on KD's leadership in a negative way?

blastmasta26
05-12-2013, 10:51 AM
Doesn't change my opinion of KD at all, I always knew he was capable of performing like this. I also felt like one of the few who understood Westbrook's value to the team. But overall, this situation makes Westbrook seem more important and makes the Harden decision look worse.

Also, Durant is doing all he can in this series, and still scoring at a high level despite the rest of the team playing relatively poorly. Memphis is a great team that won't lose to one man. Look at last series, Chris Paul is obviously a great facilitator yet he couldn't get enough out of the rest of his team. Durant has improved as a play maker, but he can't suddenly make his teammates great scorers by himself.

KD is in a Cleveland LeBron type situation right now, and even LeBron lost a playoff series to the Magic while playing incredibly well.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 10:53 AM
Doesn't change my opinion of KD at all, I always knew he was capable of performing like this. I also felt like one of the few who understood Westbrook's value to the team. But overall, this situation makes Westbrook seem more important and makes the Harden decision look worse.

Also, Durant is doing all he can in this series, and still scoring at a high level despite the rest of the team playing relatively poorly. Memphis is a great team that won't lose to one man. Look at last series, Chris Paul is obviously a great facilitator yet he couldn't get enough out of the rest of his team. Durant has improved as a play maker, but he can't suddenly make his teammates great scorers by himself.

KD is in a Cleveland LeBron type situation right now, and even LeBron lost a playoff series to the Magic while playing incredibly well.

Chris Paul is seen by many as one of the best leaders in the NBA with better support than KD currently has (well before Blake got injured) and even he couldn't get pass them. What does leadership have to do with your teammates playin poorly is beyond me.

THE MTL
05-12-2013, 11:13 AM
It makes Westbrook look better in the eyes of the media and his criticizers. Westbrook is underrated and while his NBA rank is consistently in the Top 10, ppl dont respect him like he is a top 10 NBA player. Westbrook is always criticized because he takes shots away from Durant, not a true PG, should get traded for a pure PG like Rondo, etc. etc.

Now ppl know his value which is something true fans knew all along.

waveycrockett
05-12-2013, 11:17 AM
What Durant is doing is nothing short of amazing. His legend is growing. I am concerned how WB will bounce back from his injury since he relies so much on his athleticism.

ManRam
05-12-2013, 11:19 AM
i'd say the last one in the poll, but i don't think everyone does truly get how important and great westbrook is. maybe he should shoot 2-4 times less a game, but that's the only bad he brings to the table. 10% of bad doesn't outweigh 90% of good.


so i voted for RWB's stock rises. i don't think KD will get cavs style lebron-treatment here (fair or not).

KingPosey
05-12-2013, 12:05 PM
It's kind of unfair to KD, that team just doesn't have enough on either end without Westy. He is so important on either end and KD can't possibly cover what they're missing. That team just doesn't look near as good on paper without him.

KingPosey
05-12-2013, 12:06 PM
What Durant is doing is nothing short of amazing. His legend is growing. I am concerned how WB will bounce back from his injury since he relies so much on his athleticism.

As far as I know it's mainly his MCL, that's much easier to come back from, it shouldn't be a problem what so ever.

waveycrockett
05-12-2013, 12:07 PM
I think alot of people myself included overrated Ibaka. I expected him to take the next step this year and be that low post presence they need on on offense. That Jeff Green trade for a useless Perkins is looking awful right now.

waveycrockett
05-12-2013, 12:08 PM
As far as I know it's mainly his MCL, that's much easier to come back from, it shouldn't be a problem what so ever.

That's true but as VC has stated when you play above the rim your knees take a pounding. This could be just the beginning. I'm sure he will be fine and adapt but it's definitely a situation to watch next year.

time4change
05-12-2013, 12:22 PM
Chris Paul is seen by many as one of the best leaders in the NBA with better support than KD currently has (well before Blake got injured) and even he couldn't get pass them. What does leadership have to do with your teammates playin poorly is beyond me.

How many times has he deferred to a teammate only for them to miss a wide open shot or turn the ball over.

Trinidad
05-12-2013, 12:43 PM
They win this series with James Harden.

jacquewho?
05-12-2013, 12:46 PM
I think KD's stock goes down a little bit. I'd have to look at numbers and other stats, but I feel like, in comparison to when LeBron was with the Cavs, that LeBron took a less talented team farther than KD did if he were to lose this series.

Btw i'm not a LeBron lover by any means. I'm trying to compare the two in the superstar realm.

WHODAT8o8
05-12-2013, 01:03 PM
KD's doing all he can to carry this squad. He always sets them up for easy looks and thhey always dick it. Ibakas been playing like **** on offense and his confidence is really going down. Hes not hitting that consistent mid range jumper that he usually has been in the regular season. Martins been wildly inconsistent like he has been this whole year and perk on offense, well its perk. Reggie jackson has stepped in nicely for RW but isnt the same. If anything both RW and KDs stock has gone up. What more can KD do to better help this team? Shoot 100% from the field? I feel like its LeBron all over again, nobody really helping him out.

IgglesFanInCO
05-12-2013, 01:12 PM
KD looks exactly like he has been, the only thing thats been exposed is the rest of the Thunder squad

The only thing that looks terrible now is the Harden trade

tredigs
05-12-2013, 01:14 PM
KD looks exactly like he has been, the only thing thats been exposed is the rest of the Thunder squad

The only thing that looks terrible now is the Harden trade
Seeing how pathetic they look as a team right now relative to their dominant contender form with Westbrook makes the decision to keep RWB over Harden look "terrible"? Not sure I follow that.

Or if you just mean that they should've kept both as long as possible and did whatever they could to keep the trio going forward and actually pay some luxury tax? There I'm with you.

ArmLaker
05-12-2013, 01:44 PM
Are you drunk? What weapons? Westbrook and Durant made Ibaka an effective scorer and Martin has been playing like garbage (one of the most inconsistent shooters in the game Orr his entire career). Do you call those weapons?

LeBron also is a different type of player in terms of the fact that his playmaking is about as equal to his scoring ability. As someone earlier said KD is a great scorer but the other aspects of his game aren't on that level.

You give prime Kobe those "weapons" what happens?

Give prime Kobe those weapons and he'll win championships. By the way, who says he's still not in his prime? Have you seen him play at all this year?

Chronz
05-12-2013, 01:54 PM
Chris Paul is seen by many as one of the best leaders in the NBA with better support than KD currently has (well before Blake got injured) and even he couldn't get pass them. What does leadership have to do with your teammates playin poorly is beyond me.

Blake entered the playoffs injured and I don't see the superior roster, maybe somewhat comparable but CP3 would have killed to have a defense that could suppress Memphis to the degree that Durant's team has. That's without mentioning that our talent tends to go ghost come playoff time (DJ mainly).

Chronz
05-12-2013, 01:55 PM
Give prime Kobe those weapons and he'll win championships. By the way, who says he's still not in his prime? Have you seen him play at all this year?

So you think Kobe is still in his prime? Do you not care about defense?

Chronz
05-12-2013, 01:58 PM
We're talking points period not total offense
No WE aint, Im talking about the totality of a players scoring ability. Thinking a player who scores more pts is a better scorer is grade 1 level basketball insight.


& only one person wins MVP not the whole team
Its still INFLUENCED by the TEAM. Get it yet? Learn your history

ChiSox219
05-12-2013, 02:00 PM
I don't see how this helps Westbrook stock. Everyone, even his detractors, know Westbrook is a talented player and integral to the Thunder's success. The criticism has always been that Durant needed more touches because he's a far better player than Westbrook and if you didn't believe that before, Durant's Jordanesque playoffs should have convinced you by now.

petersmagic12
05-12-2013, 02:02 PM
We're talking points period not total offense & only one person wins MVP not the whole team

My answer neither happens, Durant is doing his best out there but hes just one man. When your serge, and martin go a combined 12 for 34 that is not going to get it done. I believe that OKC still has a shot at wining this series. They just need a total team effort to make up for westbrooks absence. We all know Durant will bring it the rest of the team just has to show up. Martin , Ibaka, and Jackson. Need to fill the void and Ive been impressed with Reggie jacksons contributions and less impresed with martins and Ibaka's. You really see how much the harden trade hurt them in this type of situation.

40 is a little hard to accomplish even if Durant had more of a willing ability to shoot. Defenses would adjust and you have to believe that that he would have off nights here and there. I like the way Durant plays now if he scored 40 a night they would be in the same spot and he would probably be more tired anyway. Hes a team player and that's part of who he is.

MVP maybe an individual award but it is not based on how many points you score for your team. If that was the case Durant would have won MVP 3 times already. Hence the 3 scoring titles he already posses.The award is about the value to the person on the team and how much success it leads too. You can be the leagues highest scorer but your team can be a below 500 team theres no way you can get MVP. And do not say it cant happen I can mention Tracy Mcgrady and the orlando magic. SO MVP is about way more then individual scoring and individual stats. Its about who can lead their team to victory against all odds.

ArmLaker
05-12-2013, 02:54 PM
How is Kobe still not in his prime? Carrying an injured Lakers squad into the playoffs and having his best assists year ever? Still right up there in scoring. Still great defense all at the age of 34-35? I'm probably going to piss off a lot of supporters and even some Laker fans as well by saying Kobe Bryant to me is still the greatest player in the NBA today. I don't let some number(his age) cloud my opinion on his performances night in and night out, or let it be the deciding factor if he's "past his prime" lool. I don't know if you follow football(soccer as people call it here) but there is a popular saying, it goes......Form is temporary, class is permanent. Kobe is pure class.

Losoway
05-12-2013, 02:56 PM
durant all the way . if westbrook was healthy guarantee they sweep the grizzzles

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 07:03 PM
No WE aint, Im talking about the totality of a players scoring ability. Thinking a player who scores more pts is a better scorer is grade 1 level basketball insight.


Its still INFLUENCED by the TEAM. Get it yet? Learn your history

If that's how you feel brah. I've been playin ball longer than half the league. So even tho I respect it, ya opinion means nothing to me.

Laidback_Scrapp
05-12-2013, 07:08 PM
I understand what your saying and your right leading the league in scoring doesn't make an MVP. I'm just saying as efficient as he is if he took as many shots as rwb takes a game he WOULD avg 40 adjustments or not. Either it's off long range threes or going to the rack and getting fouls. But maybe I'm giving him too much credit

Iron24th
05-12-2013, 09:06 PM
Are you drunk? What weapons? Westbrook and Durant made Ibaka an effective scorer and Martin has been playing like garbage (one of the most inconsistent shooters in the game Orr his entire career). Do you call those weapons?

LeBron also is a different type of player in terms of the fact that his playmaking is about as equal to his scoring ability. As someone earlier said KD is a great scorer but the other aspects of his game aren't on that level.

You give prime Kobe those "weapons" what happens?

Imo martin, ibaka, collison, perkins are solid players who are effectives in different areas, Lebron or prime Kobe would do a much better job of using them.

Baller1
05-12-2013, 09:16 PM
It makes them both look better.

Durant gets to put up Jordan/Lebron numbers, while the team loses because they're missing a top 7 NBA player.

seikou8
05-12-2013, 09:25 PM
How is Kobe still not in his prime? Carrying an injured Lakers squad into the playoffs and having his best assists year ever? Still right up there in scoring. Still great defense all at the age of 34-35? I'm probably going to piss off a lot of supporters and even some Laker fans as well by saying Kobe Bryant to me is still the greatest player in the NBA today. I don't let some number(his age) cloud my opinion on his performances night in and night out, or let it be the deciding factor if he's "past his prime" lool. I don't know if you follow football(soccer as people call it here) but there is a popular saying, it goes......Form is temporary, class is permanent. Kobe is pure class.

neither do i but he is not the player in the game or top3 at this point kobe bryant defense isn't what it was in his prime

NYG+Braves
05-12-2013, 09:29 PM
I love how everyone completely discredits memphis. im sorry but they play the right way and have a great team. Whos to say they would of won the series with RWB. Give memphis aome dam credit ppl. jesus

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 09:34 PM
Blake entered the playoffs injured and I don't see the superior roster, maybe somewhat comparable but CP3 would have killed to have a defense that could suppress Memphis to the degree that Durant's team has. That's without mentioning that our talent tends to go ghost come playoff time (DJ mainly).

Everyone enters the playoffs injured but even an injured Blake is better than current Ibaka, at least he was able to stay on the floor and contribute. Look at Martin and Ibaka they've gone ghost this post season as well.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 09:36 PM
Give prime Kobe those weapons and he'll win championships. By the way, who says he's still not in his prime? Have you seen him play at all this year?

Kobe would win Championships with Kevin Martin and Ibaka? :laugh:

He barely scraped into the post season with Dwight, Pau and Nash and got embarrassed with Malone, Shaq and the Glove. Championships? :laugh2:

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 09:38 PM
How many times has he deferred to a teammate only for them to miss a wide open shot or turn the ball over.

So basically you want Durant to turn into Kobe Bryant? How far did that get his team when Smush was his 2nd option? This is a TEAM game Durant is not a PG he can't carry out the duties of Westbrook and himself on his own dude NEEDS help.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 09:45 PM
Imo martin, ibaka, collison, perkins are solid players who are effectives in different areas, Lebron or prime Kobe would do a much better job of using them.

Have you watched Kendrick Perkins play over the last 3 seasons? The only thing he's done at a decent level is defend the post individually and even that has been so so. Collision is nothing more than a decent role player, Martin? Really what would Kobe do with him? Haven't you realized that without Westbrook Ibaka is failing hard. If you watched the Thunder play on a semi consistent basis you'd know why.

Prime Kobe you struggle to get this team out of the 1st round. LeBron (way less selfish player) however would stand a way better chance.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 09:45 PM
They win this series with James Harden.

They also win with Russell Westbrook. Point?

NYG+Braves
05-12-2013, 09:51 PM
They also win with Russell Westbrook. Point?

How do u know this to be a fact? memphis is dam good and i think they can beat anyone. including a okc team who has RWB

ArmLaker
05-12-2013, 10:02 PM
Kobe would win Championships with Kevin Martin and Ibaka? :laugh:

He barely scraped into the post season with Dwight, Pau and Nash and got embarrassed with Malone, Shaq and the Glove. Championships? :laugh2:

Take a look at our squads in those mid 00s. Kevin Martin and Serge Ibaka would have been starting in those teams NO competition. I could use the same argument for Durant last year when he lost the NBA Finals WITH Harden, WB, and Ibaka. What does that say about him? Kobe took decent teams to the NBA Finals 3 years running winning two of them against arguably better overall teams ie the 2010 Celtics. Don't kid yourself buddy it hurts me too that AI hasn't won much in his career seeing as I'm a fan of his as well, but don't take it all out on Kobe.

seikou8
05-12-2013, 10:02 PM
How do u know this to be a fact? memphis is dam good and i think they can beat anyone. including a okc team who has RWB

okc would win in 6 in my opinion if okc had russ Memphis is good but lets not overate them. mike conley would not get the looks he could now and grizzles would have to change the whole gamelan with a another top 10 player on the floor

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 10:04 PM
How do u know this to be a fact? memphis is dam good and i think they can beat anyone. including a okc team who has RWB

Interesting that you'd take offense to my point and not the other poster's. any particular reason for that? Do you think Harden would fair better against the Grizzlies perimeter D than Westy and put them over the top. The other poster said something as if its fact don't see you quoting him. Fact is with Westy they're a more seasoned playoff team and a better overall team than the Grizz. I made an assumption yes but I was following in the same mold as the other poster.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-12-2013, 10:05 PM
Can't expect Durant to do much with a depleted roster. Westbrook has always been a superstar.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 10:08 PM
Take a look at our squads in those mid 00s. Kevin Martin and Serge Ibaka would have been starting in those teams NO competition. I could use the same argument for Durant last year when he lost the NBA Finals WITH Harden, WB, and Ibaka. What does that say about him? Kobe took decent teams to the NBA Finals 3 years running winning two of them against arguably better overall teams ie the 2010 Celtics. Don't kid yourself buddy it hurts me too that AI hasn't won much in his career seeing as I'm a fan of his as well, but don't take it all out on Kobe.

Kobe took? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Kobe fail to get out of the 1st round without Gasol? He didn't "take" anyone anywhere. He needed HELP just like any other player. He didn't take the Lakers to the finals 3 years in a row, that's like saying KD took the Thunder to the finals last year.

The Thunder also lost to a team that would have handed the Lakers a whopping as well.

Take it out on Kobe :laugh: dude Kobe is one of my favorite players to ever grace the hardwood it's the idiotic things his fans say that save me scratching my head.

Swashcuff
05-12-2013, 10:10 PM
Can't expect Durant to do much with a depleted roster. Westbrook has always been a superstar.

No according to some posters if he was a better leader he'd be able to turn into Magic Johnson and MJ rolled up into one and become the greatest facilitator and scorer to ever play the game, making Martin make open 3s and having Ibaka move better without the basketball finding himself better scoring opportunities deep in the paint. He's a poor leader.

NYG+Braves
05-12-2013, 10:32 PM
Interesting that you'd take offense to my point and not the other poster's. any particular reason for that? Do you think Harden would fair better against the Grizzlies perimeter D than Westy and put them over the top. The other poster said something as if its fact don't see you quoting him. Fact is with Westy they're a more seasoned playoff team and a better overall team than the Grizz. I made an assumption yes but I was following in the same mold as the other poster.

Ive only read posts on the last page. so ur post is one i seen. Im not taking offense to anything. I just dont see a reason whh ppl under value memphis so bad. They remind me so much of the piston teams in the 2000s. i just think memphis can beat anyone no matter who they face. Will they? who knows,but they def get no respect .

LAcowBOMBER
05-12-2013, 10:44 PM
It would make KD look worse, but it shouldn't affect anyone's opinion of RWB either way because we don't know how he would have played

gaughan333
05-12-2013, 10:48 PM
SSS - hard to adjust after something like this. I don't form an opinion about either, it is what it is. My opinion of memphis also stays the same. I always found them to be formidable

LakersIn5
05-12-2013, 10:52 PM
Have you watched Kendrick Perkins play over the last 3 seasons? The only thing he's done at a decent level is defend the post individually and even that has been so so. Collision is nothing more than a decent role player, Martin? Really what would Kobe do with him? Haven't you realized that without Westbrook Ibaka is failing hard. If you watched the Thunder play on a semi consistent basis you'd know why.

Prime Kobe you struggle to get this team out of the 1st round. LeBron (way less selfish player) however would stand a way better chance.

kwame
odom
kd
sasha
smush

kd would struggle to win 40+ wins with that team.

perkins
ibaka
prime kobe
thabo
jackson

would have still be down 1-2 to memphis. but prime kobe would accomplish what kd is doing but kd wont be able to accomplish what prime kobe did.

ArmLaker
05-12-2013, 11:02 PM
My point exactly, just that AI dude doesn't believe it. Makes you wonder has Kobe really been under the radar his entire career. Kobe with this Thunder squad would have spanked the crap outta Memphis right now. Btw, Kobe is always "prime" so yeah

Vinny642
05-12-2013, 11:26 PM
RWB will be underrated always just because he shoots a lot

Lake_Show2416
05-12-2013, 11:31 PM
"They r who we thought they were" - Dennis Green

girlsluvBeyonce
05-13-2013, 02:04 AM
durant drops if okc loses and melo pushes the knicks to the next round

DallasTrilla23
05-13-2013, 05:01 AM
If you had asked this question about the Houston series then it probably would of made more sense because I thought this series was gonna be tough for the thunder anyways. I don't think it'll impact anyone's view of durant.

Iron24th
05-13-2013, 05:28 AM
Have you watched Kendrick Perkins play over the last 3 seasons? The only thing he's done at a decent level is defend the post individually and even that has been so so. Collision is nothing more than a decent role player, Martin? Really what would Kobe do with him? Haven't you realized that without Westbrook Ibaka is failing hard. If you watched the Thunder play on a semi consistent basis you'd know why.

Prime Kobe you struggle to get this team out of the 1st round. LeBron (way less selfish player) however would stand a way better chance.

You're biased, you hate kobe, we got this.

Some posters disagree with you in this thread for a reason.

Swashcuff
05-13-2013, 08:10 AM
kwame
odom
kd
sasha
smush

kd would struggle to win 40+ wins with that team.

perkins
ibaka
prime kobe
thabo
jackson

would have still be down 1-2 to memphis. but prime kobe would accomplish what kd is doing but kd wont be able to accomplish what prime kobe did.

The other poster said that Kobe would spank this Memphis team. Do you agree?

Swashcuff
05-13-2013, 08:12 AM
You're biased, you hate kobe, we got this.

Some posters disagree with you in this thread for a reason.

:laugh2: from the moment you disagree with the Kobephiles on this forum you become a hater but the countless occasions in which you defend him way better than they do is ignored. Have you taken a look at the posters who have disagreed with me? All Kobephiles.

Heediot
05-13-2013, 10:54 AM
People are over-reacting. He's a top player, no doubt. However, replace him with any top 10-15 Pg and the thunder make it to WCF and possibly Finals.

Every team will be worse off losing a max-money star player. It doesn't take rocket science to know that.

SlimKid
05-13-2013, 11:05 AM
Even if it should effect his stock - which it probably shouldn't at this point - it won't. KD lives under a different set of rules when it comes to criticism. It's been this way for some time now and it's not going to suddenly change.

Baller1
05-13-2013, 12:01 PM
Hahaha, Kobe wouldn't have even got by Houston with that Thunder squad.

Redskins10
05-13-2013, 01:07 PM
If anything it shows how terrible Ibaka and Martin are without Westbrook.

Chronz
05-13-2013, 01:51 PM
Everyone enters the playoffs injured but even an injured Blake is better than current Ibaka, at least he was able to stay on the floor and contribute. Look at Martin and Ibaka they've gone ghost this post season as well.
Blakes athletic based game suffers more from injury but if we are comparing the squad outside of Blake/RWB, I would still much rather have Martin and Ibaka, their struggles don't seem as glaring as our 6thman no show and lack of a single quality big. We played smaller and our defensive numbers fell as a result. That's a bigger 2-way loss imo

Blitzbolt
05-13-2013, 02:24 PM
If anything it shows how terrible Ibaka and Martin are without Westbrook.I see almost everyone blaming them but Ibaka is playing vs two great bigs and Martin gets to Play VS Tony Allen.

Just like the like Clippers the Grizzlies are playing a box and 1 zone defense let KD and CP3 Score 40 a night but shut down all the others.

Ibaka is playing great right now on both ends he is getting open and getting good looks he just keep missing them.It has nothing to do with Westy.

Cal827
05-13-2013, 02:25 PM
Makes Ibaka look worse. He has to learn to hit a shot

Durant has Been playing his heart out.

Westbrook is needed for this team to win it all. Even if they somehow get past the Grizz, the will get killed by San Antonio or Golden State.

JordansBulls
05-13-2013, 03:39 PM
OKC wasn't going to be any comp to Miami if they ended up getting thru the west especially without Westbrook, so it is better for a team like Memphis to make it. Actually a Memphis vs Indiana would be pretty cool for the franchises in the finals. I know the ratings would be atrocious though.

Iron24th
05-13-2013, 03:53 PM
:laugh2: from the moment you disagree with the Kobephiles on this forum you become a hater but the countless occasions in which you defend him way better than they do is ignored. Have you taken a look at the posters who have disagreed with me? All Kobephiles.

It works from both sides, only people disagreeing with us are Kobe haters :rolleyes:

Swashcuff
05-13-2013, 04:00 PM
It works from both sides, only people disagreeing with us are Kobe haters :rolleyes:

I love and I completely disagree with you. Try again.

b@llhog24
05-13-2013, 04:01 PM
It works from both sides, only people disagreeing with us are Kobe haters :rolleyes:

Whatever you're trying to imply; I'm almost certain you're doing it wrong.

Burkey3472
05-13-2013, 04:35 PM
I wouldn't say Durant's stock has gone down, he's still the 2nd best player in the league (and did people really think he was on Lebrons level). The guy just needs help and that's what Westbrook is for. Who would you replace him with anyway......Paul (maybe, but just lost in the 1st round), Carmelo (he hasn't played well in the playoffs at all, can't really vault him), Kobe (major injury, so no), Dwight (down year because of injuries, so no), Wade (injuries)?

If anything it just gives a slight bump to Westbrook, people might stop bashing on him about taking so many shots. The truth is, he needs to take his shots because outside of those two they really don't have any great scorers. Martin can score but struggles to create his shot on a consistent basis and Ibaka has really shown flaws offensively in the playoffs without Westbrook.

Showtime Steve
05-13-2013, 05:07 PM
RWB looks better. I still say RWB needs his own team but I was wrong in saying he was ttrying to take over team. KD has gotten so use to playing with an aggressive RWB thAt it seems he has lost that aggressive take over mode. I doubt he regains it in time this year. Almost seems like RWB has spoiled him.

Shlomi
05-13-2013, 05:55 PM
I wouldn't say Durant's stock has gone down, he's still the 2nd best player in the league (and did people really think he was on Lebrons level).

durant is better then lebron

Baller1
05-13-2013, 06:25 PM
durant is better then lebron

Haha.

Iron24th
05-13-2013, 06:30 PM
I love and I completely disagree with you. Try again.

Really? What a surprise...

Iron24th
05-13-2013, 06:32 PM
Whatever you're trying to imply; I'm almost certain you're doing it wrong.

Your username and your answer speak for you.

b@llhog24
05-13-2013, 06:34 PM
Your username and your answer speak for you.

Your logic speaks for you, and it doesn't say much.

Iron24th
05-13-2013, 06:38 PM
Your logic speaks for you, and it doesn't say much.

:yawn:

b@llhog24
05-13-2013, 06:40 PM
:yawn:

Exhibit A.

mngopher35
05-13-2013, 06:42 PM
I think that Durant has stayed pretty much the same in peoples minds (second best player). I do think there were some who blamed westbrook too much, or said that he was hurting the thunder etc. I think his rating probably has gotten a little better to some.

kenzo400
05-13-2013, 07:26 PM
OKC needs a better coach. The guy has made his career of the insane amount of talent on the team. There are never any plays run. It's all a 1 on 1 game and so far it has worked very well because the team has 2 of top 10 scorers and probably second best player in the league in Durant.

ArmLaker
05-13-2013, 09:42 PM
Haha.

Your input is irrelevant, just like the Sonics.

Purple_n_Gold
05-13-2013, 10:26 PM
It shuts people up who have said the thunder would be better without Westbrook. Westbrook is as important as anybody on this team. I don't know if you say his stock has risen, just might show people what his stock has been at. As far as Durant there is definitely no reason for his stock to drop whatsoever, in fact maybe raise it a little bit. He has absolutely carried this Thunder team with little help. IMO easily the most dominant player in these playoffs so far. Had some big misses the other night, but its gonna happen when you have to do it all. He has been sensational these playoffs I would just like to see his confidence a little higher. When you are leading your team you can't sulk over missed FTs or shots you miss. The end of the last game his body language was terrible. I know he was down on himself, but gotta just know you'll come out and dominate the next game.

girlsluvBeyonce
05-13-2013, 10:45 PM
It's looks like Westbrook runs OKC

mrblisterdundee
05-13-2013, 11:06 PM
I don't think it will make either look any worse or better than they already did. Both players feed off of each other very well, and the team is significantly diminished without either.

Laidback_Scrapp
05-14-2013, 02:01 AM
It's looks like Westbrook runs OKC

+1 that's what I'm tryna tell some of these phuckboys on here and now look at them down 3-1.

b@llhog24
05-14-2013, 02:27 AM
+1 that's what I'm tryna tell some of these phuckboys on here and now look at them down 3-1.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

sunsfan88
05-14-2013, 02:59 AM
The poll makes it seem as if we are talking about the stock market and the economy...jeez bro this is basketball.

Hangtime
05-14-2013, 09:20 AM
Westbrook and Durant playing together and this OKC team wouldn't be down 3-1 right now. Durant is doing about everything he can to pick up the slack against one of the best defenses in the league. How do you think Westbrook would fair without Durant in the lineup? Anybody really think the result would be any different?

Superstar tandems usually work to a team's advantage as long as they are compatible. And it lifts pressure off the other guys. I don't think this OKC team was beating Miami with both guys healthy anyways. So many of you would be back criticizing Westbrook anyways for their failure to win a title again.

blahblahyoutoo
05-14-2013, 11:47 AM
the problem behind this premise (and using the games where RW is out as proof) is that you've taken away a very good bball player in RW (not necessarily a good pg) from the team and replaced him with a sub (not even sure who they start as pg now).

if you replace RW with a good/decent pass first pg like jkidd/nash in their prime, then you can begin to see a difference in KD's game and team success in OKC.

nycericanguy
05-14-2013, 11:50 AM
the problem behind this premise (and using the games where RW is out as proof) is that you've taken away a very good bball player in RW (not necessarily a good pg) from the team and replaced him with a sub (not even sure who they start as pg now).

if you replace RW with a good/decent pass first pg like jkidd/nash in their prime, then you can begin to see a difference in KD's game and team success in OKC.

Nash & Kidd in their prime were hall of fame MVP type players, a long way away from good or decent.

I think this is just showing how much you need a 2nd star in general, OKC struggled to get past even HOU once Westbrook went down.

It kind of makes me realize NY is going to need a 2nd legit scorer to help Melo. Even Durant can't do it alone and he has a better supporting cast even w/o Westbrook.

NYKnickFanatic
05-14-2013, 11:53 AM
Good thing Westbrook is reliable and durable, because Durant would be lost without him.

OceanSpray
05-14-2013, 12:11 PM
Why deal with all the mathematics? When all goes wrong, blame RWB.

OceanSpray
05-14-2013, 12:16 PM
Nash & Kidd in their prime were hall of fame MVP type players, a long way away from good or decent.

I think this is just showing how much you need a 2nd star in general, OKC struggled to get past even HOU once Westbrook went down.

It kind of makes me realize NY is going to need a 2nd legit scorer to help Melo. Even Durant can't do it alone and he has a better supporting cast even w/o Westbrook.

kD has a better supporting cast without wb than melo? Chandler is better than ibaka. Jr smith better than martin. Felton better than any other player durant has asides from wb

Bookey
05-14-2013, 12:21 PM
This thread makes zero sense. Of course they would struggle without Westbrook, as any team would struggle without such an important piece of their team. With that being said if it was Durant injured and Westbrook playing this series would be over instead of 3-1.

nycericanguy
05-14-2013, 12:24 PM
kD has a better supporting cast without wb than melo? Chandler is better than ibaka. Jr smith better than martin. Felton better than any other player durant has asides from wb

Ibake & Chandler are different players, but they are equal at best. Ibaka is a great shotblocker and is an offensive threat and can even hit the 3 now. Chandler is a bigger body and a better rebounder, but all in all I'd take Ibaka over him. He's just too limited on offense.

NO way in hell is JR better than Kmart. Kmart is a legit EFFICIENT 20ppg scorer if given the shot attempts and minutes. Better FG%, 3ptfg%, better FT shooter. JR has never sniffed the numbers Kmart has put up in his career.

JR will give you better rebounding but that's about it.

Felton gets trashed on PSD as the worst starting PG in the NBA... now he's better than any player on OKC besides Durant & WB? No sorry, Martin & Ibaka are better, and Reggie Jackson has played just as well as Felton this postseason.

TN_ballz
05-14-2013, 12:33 PM
It will make him look like a forward trying to play guard. He's a shooter, not a facilitator. KD has the sweetest stroke in the league and Westbrook is a quick tempo, aggressive guard. They are very differeny players, but make each other better. Neither of them will look any better or worse. Also, I don't care what KD says, he's getting worn down carrying so much of a load.

blahblahyoutoo
05-14-2013, 12:49 PM
Nash & Kidd in their prime were hall of fame MVP type players, a long way away from good or decent.

I think this is just showing how much you need a 2nd star in general, OKC struggled to get past even HOU once Westbrook went down.

It kind of makes me realize NY is going to need a 2nd legit scorer to help Melo. Even Durant can't do it alone and he has a better supporting cast even w/o Westbrook.

my point is you are dropping off from WB, a top 15 player, to reggie jackson, basically a rookie.
not a fair comparison. give him a legit starter like rubio or devin harris and then pass judgment.

ManRam
05-14-2013, 12:52 PM
Why deal with all the mathematics? When all goes wrong, blame RWB.

KD must be sad that his eternal scapegoat can't be the scapegoat this time

todu82
05-14-2013, 01:07 PM
Option 2. It'll make Westbrook look a lot better.

utl768
05-14-2013, 01:08 PM
shows how valuable westbrook is

Stinkyoutsider
05-14-2013, 01:08 PM
I think Westbrook's stock rises slightly. Everyone knew what kind of player he is but I think a lot of fans are forgetting that they're playing the Grizzlies. I think the Grizzlies defense is going to give any team they face serious trouble...

The role players for the Thunder are really letting them down though (Martin and Ibaka). No one expected much from Perkins but Ibaka's jump shooting has been horrible and Martin looks like the player we all expected (just a jump shooter).

dee279
05-14-2013, 01:53 PM
I think it falls on the GM, the players, and the coach more then it does on KD. Their GM gave up Jeff Green for Perkins. Then kept Serge/Perkins and gave up James Harden. That put basically all the scoring on KD and RW. They had no plan set for an injury because Maynor was also let go. A player who could have ran the offense. KD is basicaly the only player on that team that can score consistently, and their is no one who can really set up the offense. The coach should try to play more to the strengths of the other players instead of just making KD do everything because he is not that guy. The players are definitely dropping the ball more so then the coach though. I will say it like this, Westbrook is definitely missed, but i do not think it shows KD is overrated. It does show that westbrook was very much undervalued by alot of people. Not saying he is underrated, but undervalued.

b@llhog24
05-14-2013, 03:07 PM
Ibake & Chandler are different players, but they are equal at best. Ibaka is a great shotblocker and is an offensive threat and can even hit the 3 now. Chandler is a bigger body and a better rebounder, but all in all I'd take Ibaka over him. He's just too limited on offense.

They play essentially the same role, except Chandler is better at it than Ibaka.


NO way in hell is JR better than Kmart. Kmart is a legit EFFICIENT 20ppg scorer if given the shot attempts and minutes. Better FG%, 3ptfg%, better FT shooter. JR has never sniffed the numbers Kmart has put up in his career.


He hasn't been that way for about 3 seasons. Shoots I never heard any Knick fan say Kmart was better than JR in the SMOY threads.


JR will give you better rebounding but that's about it.

Felton gets trashed on PSD as the worst starting PG in the NBA... now he's better than any player on OKC besides Durant & WB? No sorry, Martin & Ibaka are better, and Reggie Jackson has played just as well as Felton this postseason.

So if PSD says it, then it must be true? Players that are better than Felton on OKC excluding KD and Westbrook (who doesn't play): Thabo, Serge, Kmart and maybe Collison depending on how big of a believer you are in intangible worth/minute loads.

Pistol_Pete
05-14-2013, 03:39 PM
If they lose, which history says they will, it'll probably be a drop for KD and a bump for Westbrook. But you have to remember, OKC is playing this series with 1/3 of their top players from last year. I think we've all seen how good Harden is. That's a bit of a moot point since he's gone, but still, they didn't get nearly the quality in return for him. Then add in Westbrook. That's big loss to overcome, even if Durant averaged 40 a game.

tredigs
05-14-2013, 04:09 PM
If they lose, which history says they will, it'll probably be a drop for KD and a bump for Westbrook. But you have to remember, OKC is playing this series with 1/3 of their top players from last year. I think we've all seen how good Harden is. That's a bit of a moot point since he's gone, but still, they didn't get nearly the quality in return for him. Then add in Westbrook. That's big loss to overcome, even if Durant averaged 40 a game.

I still don't see how it's a knock on KD to lose a series that they really should lose, especially with how great he's been as a whole against a team with 3 All Defensive team members. But I'm glad that the naysayers of Westbrook have to eat some crow right now.

topdog
05-14-2013, 09:22 PM
It makes Presti look worse. He's been lauded for this great team he built, but it has minimal offensive talent and the Serge and Perkins decisions become more questionable.

3RDASYSTEM
05-14-2013, 09:44 PM
It doesn't make KD look bad nor better or RUSS

its called having a equal or sidekick allstar/allnba type to go to war with but In KD case not having him makes it tougher

I told you guys he will now feel a IVERSON type effect but he has better players overall easily, 10-27 is what BCHUCK shot with MCKIE/SNOW, and he was 5'10'' not 6'10'' getting JORDAN rules not just doubled like KD is getting from MEM

MEM can challenge for West crown if fully healthy so its no big deal at all that they are on the cusp of West Finals app. especially since OKC has a major major piece missing and now KD has entered AI territory where he has to shoot 30-40x for his team to have a shot, and I mean that sincerely

KD has to go into AI mode and shoot 30x at high pct, its easy right since his PER and WS% is off the charts?

I bet now KD falls off because of the new digital age format, not at all in my book, just more pressure

its why I rank AI so high on best players ever list, its hard to drag MCKIE-SNOW then go to IGGY-KORVER, that's a tough task for any top 10 player ever, or 20

its even more disrespect for any top player to play with a support group that avg. for they youth yrs