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View Full Version : So what makes Memphis so much better than Indiana?



elledaddy
05-10-2013, 01:15 PM
It seems like just about everybody on sports TV and many posters on here, think that Memphis brand of basketball has the best chance to beat Miami. I strongly disagree but thats not what I want to discuss.

My question is, what makes Memphis ANY different/better then the Pacers? They were almost identical in ALL major team categories during the season.
- Points - Ind 94.7( +4) / Memphis 93.4 ( + 4.1)
- Pts Allowed - Ind 90.7( 2nd NBA) / Memp 89.3( 1st NBA)
- Opp FG% - Ind - 42% ( 1st NBA) / Memph 43% ( 3rd NBA)
- Reb per - Ind 45.9( + 5, 1st NBA) / Memph 42.7 ( +3.6, 11th NBA)
- Ast - Ind - 20.3( 27th NBA) / Memph - 20.7 ( 24th NBA)
- TOs - Ind - 14.5 ( 22nd NBA) / Memph - 13.2 ( 5th NBA)

Etc, etc............. You can see that they are almost equal on paper.

It's also said that Memph has " bodies" to throw at Mia. Well I count 3, maybe 4
Prince,Allen,Pondexter, I also counted Arthur.....

On the Pacers, I counted 5( possibly 7)
George,Stepenson,Green,Handsbrough,Young and just a little West,Pendergraph......

I think they are basically even or close enough at every position BUT George is the best player of both teams. Now even though I think the KNICKS are the best team to beat Miami( and beat Ind in the process), Im curious to know why Memphis is getting all this love when I believe Indiana is actually better at
doing what Memphis do than even Memphis.


Im being open minded, please explain WHY IS MEMPHIS BETTER THAN THE PACERS.

ChitownBears22
05-10-2013, 01:26 PM
They play in the west......that will be the media logic.

In actuality that isnt the case Indiana is better imo.

kduce
05-10-2013, 01:28 PM
Honestly, I think it has to due with the run they made when they seemed to come out of nowhere and how well they played in the playoffs even without Rudy. I think they are viewed as a tight knit team who have been working together to get better the last few years.

I think Indiana is a good team, but I think most people view them in the playoffs last year as a fluke more then the idea that they worked hard and deserved it. I think they have a good shot and are a much better team this year tho for sure. If they do well this year and keep up a high level of play then I think the confidence and view of them will change.

koreancabbage
05-10-2013, 01:33 PM
I think they are about the same. Just probably Memphis has the better big men IMO.

I would take ZBo and Gasol over Hibbert and West any day of the week. And thats probably why the media believes Memphis has a better chance.

Doesn't matter though, I don't believe Miami will see either of them - NY beats Pacers in 7 games and SA comes out of the West as my prediction.

Aapox
05-10-2013, 01:45 PM
As the above poster said, the front line. I also think Conley is a better PG than Collison and they have more consistent players than Indiana. With that said, Indiana sure has a good team with a lot of talent.

Chronz
05-10-2013, 01:46 PM
Etc, etc............. You can see that they are almost equal on paper.
I think people have more respect for Memphis because their already superior "paper argument" got even better when they traded the chucker away.

Both teams shot a low% all year, winning games on the offensive glass. But the Grizz O ranked higher because they did a much better job limiting turnovers (27th vs 8th in to%).

Defensively the the Pacers hold a slight edge, its just a matter of how you think those differences translate vs the Heat.

Would you want a team to build a wall at the rim the way the Pacers do, or a more gambling approach that focuses on forcing turnovers and committing more fouls in the process.

Subjectively, I do think Memphis has more flexibility with how they want to defend.

I think Hibbert+George are a better tandem to slow Bron down, but Memphis can sick TA+Tay+Pondexter at Wade AND Bron with the DPOY behind them. Z-Bo is the weak link, Miami can prolly exploit him better but the Grizz have options behind him that change the game defensively.

In short, people just dont trust the Indiana offense.

AWC713
05-10-2013, 01:46 PM
Guy above me said it best...Hibbert/West is a very good big-man combo, but Gasol is the best center in the game, and ZBO is playing like a top 3 PF...i'll take Gasol/ZBO over Hibbert West any day.

Conley is an immensely better PG than G. Hill/ D.J Augustine...he's a lockdown defender, can hit 3's at a high rate, can penetrate the D and dish out, and he's also a very good passer.

They also have a ton of defensive minded players that can wreck havoc...tony allen is the best wing defender in the league. tayshaun is lanky and can more than hold his own.

all in all the grizzles are deeper, imo...i believe the pacers depth will be their downfall in the end.

dhopisthename
05-10-2013, 01:47 PM
cause they won 56 games against in the western coference while the pacers only won 49 in a weaker east. aka the pacers played teams with a combined win record of .486 while the grizzlies played teams with a record of .506 and the grizzlies still won 7 more games

Raps18-19 Champ
05-10-2013, 01:49 PM
Logic.

SoFreshNsoClean
05-10-2013, 01:50 PM
Guy above me said it best...Hibbert/West is a very good big-man combo, but Gasol is the best center in the game, and ZBO is playing like a top 3 PF...i'll take Gasol/ZBO over Hibbert West any day.

Conley is an immensely better PG than G. Hill/ D.J Augustine...he's a lockdown defender, can hit 3's at a high rate, can penetrate the D and dish out, and he's also a very good passer.

They also have a ton of defensive minded players that can wreck havoc...tony allen is the best wing defender in the league. tayshaun is lanky and can more than hold his own.

all in all the grizzles are deeper, imo...i believe the pacers depth will be their downfall in the end.

^^^

Hawkeye15
05-10-2013, 01:54 PM
I think they are close, but Memphis takes care of the ball much better, and Indiana's offense comes and goes. But they are similar teams.

Laidback_Scrapp
05-10-2013, 01:55 PM
ZBo & Marc Gasol.... N that's that

xxplayerxx23
05-10-2013, 01:56 PM
Because Indy doesn't have granger.

shep33
05-10-2013, 01:59 PM
The Grizz are better at basketball than the Pacers.

shep33
05-10-2013, 02:01 PM
Marc > Hibbert
Zbo >West
Prince < George
Allen > any SG on Indy
Conley > Hill

Memphis bench > Indy's bench

CHANGO
05-10-2013, 02:05 PM
That's an easy question.

They defend, they rebound.

Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph can answer that question.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-10-2013, 02:06 PM
I think they are close, but Memphis takes care of the ball much better, and Indiana's offense comes and goes. But they are similar teams.

What this man said.

specialiststeve
05-10-2013, 02:09 PM
I really like both teams but do think Memphis has the "edge" and only by an edge.

PG - Conley > Hill ...... Not much of an argument here.
SG - Allen = Stephenson...........I like both but Allen's experience in the playoffs may be a difference but we will call it a push.
SF - George>Prince....again not much of an argument here.
PF - Randolph = West......I see both as old school boys who just get it done.
C - Gasol > Hibbert......Gasol is just great and likely the best C in NBA - Hibbert can be good and he can disappear.

Starters = Memph 2 to 1 on "better players" with 2 "pushes"

Bench

Memphis - Bayless, Pondexter, Davis, Arther >Indy - Augustine, Green, Young, Hansborough, Mahinimi

I think Memphis bench is more explosive, flexible and better defensively.

So in conclusion Memphis has a slight edge in starters and bench ----- therefore are "thought of" as a better team. This from a Wolves fan. :)

elledaddy
05-10-2013, 02:14 PM
Guy above me said it best...Hibbert/West is a very good big-man combo, but Gasol is the best center in the game, and ZBO is playing like a top 3 PF...i'll take Gasol/ZBO over Hibbert West any day.

Conley is an immensely better PG than G. Hill/ D.J Augustine...he's a lockdown defender, can hit 3's at a high rate, can penetrate the D and dish out, and he's also a very good passer.

They also have a ton of defensive minded players that can wreck havoc...tony allen is the best wing defender in the league. tayshaun is lanky and can more than hold his own.

all in all the grizzles are deeper, imo...i believe the pacers depth will be their downfall in the end.



While I respect your opinion,I have to disagree with the bold above. While I would say that Gasol is a better all around Center than Hibbert, the same can be said about West compared to ZBO. Zbo is a HORRIBLE defensive player. The only reason he doesnt get severly criticized is A. because he's playing in Memphis( ppl dont get to watch him to much nationally) and B. everybody pays to much attention to how bad Amare is at playing D. I think that West can do everything ZBO does inside plus he has the superior jumpshot and defensive prowess out of the two. It's a wash with the bigs IMO.


The second bold. Im sorry but Toney Allen is NOT a better wing defender than Paul George. The sheer size advantage that George has cant be overlooked.


The 3rd bold. I know it's ur opinion so I will not say you are wrong about the bench depth. Biut I would like to know what have you seen to make you think that Memphis bench is better then Indy.

raiderposting
05-10-2013, 02:16 PM
Mike Conley>>>george hill
Tony Allen>>>lance Stephenson
Prince<<<<<Paul George
Zbo>>>David west
Mar gasol>>>>Roy Hibbert

That's what makes the grizz better. I got the grizz beating the heat anyway.

elledaddy
05-10-2013, 02:18 PM
I really like both teams but do think Memphis has the "edge" and only by an edge.

PG - Conley > Hill ...... Not much of an argument here.
SG - Allen = Stephenson...........I like both but Allen's experience in the playoffs may be a difference but we will call it a push.
SF - George>Prince....again not much of an argument here.
PF - Randolph = West......I see both as old school boys who just get it done.
C - Gasol > Hibbert......Gasol is just great and likely the best C in NBA - Hibbert can be good and he can disappear.

Starters = Memph 2 to 1 on "better players" with 2 "pushes"

Bench

Memphis - Bayless, Pondexter, Davis, Arther >Indy - Augustine, Green, Young, Hansborough, Mahinimi

I think Memphis bench is more explosive, flexible and better defensively.

So in conclusion Memphis has a slight edge in starters and bench ----- therefore are "thought of" as a better team. This from a Wolves fan. :)



definitely not equal

koreancabbage
05-10-2013, 02:41 PM
While I respect your opinion,I have to disagree with the bold above. While I would say that Gasol is a better all around Center than Hibbert, the same can be said about West compared to ZBO. Zbo is a HORRIBLE defensive player. The only reason he doesnt get severly criticized is A. because he's playing in Memphis( ppl dont get to watch him to much nationally) and B. everybody pays to much attention to how bad Amare is at playing D. I think that West can do everything ZBO does inside plus he has the superior jumpshot and defensive prowess out of the two. It's a wash with the bigs IMO.


The second bold. Im sorry but Toney Allen is NOT a better wing defender than Paul George. The sheer size advantage that George has cant be overlooked.


The 3rd bold. I know it's ur opinion so I will not say you are wrong about the bench depth. Biut I would like to know what have you seen to make you think that Memphis bench is better then Indy.

Randolph doesn't have to be a defensive beast in order for Memphis to win. Think about it, other than SA with Timmy, noone really matchs up in the front court other than Indiana maybe. Gasol is a really good defender, on and off the ball, much more than Hibbert or West. Randolph is worse defensively but is greater offensively than West and he scores inside, where Bosh can play against West but he will have difficulty with Randolph, and West is better on defense than offense. Its not a wash when you have the best defender in Gasol of the 4 and the better offensive players in Randolph and Gasol on Memphis.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2013, 02:43 PM
I think people have more respect for Memphis because their already superior "paper argument" got even better when they traded the chucker away.

Both teams shot a low% all year, winning games on the offensive glass. But the Grizz O ranked higher because they did a much better job limiting turnovers (27th vs 8th in to%).

Defensively the the Pacers hold a slight edge, its just a matter of how you think those differences translate vs the Heat.

Would you want a team to build a wall at the rim the way the Pacers do, or a more gambling approach that focuses on forcing turnovers and committing more fouls in the process.

Subjectively, I do think Memphis has more flexibility with how they want to defend.

I think Hibbert+George are a better tandem to slow Bron down, but Memphis can sick TA+Tay+Pondexter at Wade AND Bron with the DPOY behind them. Z-Bo is the weak link, Miami can prolly exploit him better but the Grizz have options behind him that change the game defensively.

In short, people just dont trust the Indiana offense.

very true as well

TheIlladelph16
05-10-2013, 02:57 PM
Because they are better at the game of basketball and have a superior record in a far superior conference. Not much explaining needs to be done beyond that.

The Grizz have been my "darkhorse" team since before the season, and they simply got better by trading away Rudy.

2-ONE-5
05-10-2013, 03:01 PM
Memphis won 57 games in the West for starters. They are a more experienced team and their big men are better, much much better on O too.

ChiTownPacerFan
05-10-2013, 03:06 PM
Since everybody seems to think it's common knowledge that Conley is WAY better than George Hill, can someone explain why? They're similar offensive players, but Hill shot a higher percentage from two and from three this year. Conley is definitely an elite defensive player, but Hill is an extremely good defensive player as well. Conley did average a couple more assists per game, but that's more about the offensive system than anything else. Indiana's offense just doesn't create a lot of assist opportunities for PGs.

I don't know who is better (I honestly think they're just about dead even), but the argument can clearly be made for Hill.

MonroeFAN
05-10-2013, 03:18 PM
Something about Indiana appears to be different this season. They just aren't as hungry.

Edit: man, come on... Mike Conley is a much better player. The few more APG is not a systematic thing, it's a 'being a point guard' thing. George Hill is an average shooting guard.

ChiTownPacerFan
05-10-2013, 03:35 PM
Something about Indiana appears to be different this season. They just aren't as hungry.

Edit: man, come on... Mike Conley is a much better player. The few more APG is not a systematic thing, it's a 'being a point guard' thing. George Hill is an average shooting guard.

Still didn't answer the question. What basketball skills does he possess that make him a better point guard/player? As far as not "being a point guard", Hill had a higher assist to turnover margin.

Blitzbolt
05-10-2013, 04:10 PM
The Stats lie the Pacers play in the EAST they got to play WAS, Bobcats,Detroit ,sixers Bucks ect....While Memphis did it in the West.

Put the Grizzlies in the East and they would give up 85 points a game.The strength of schedule is to BIG to not look at.

Blitzbolt
05-10-2013, 04:14 PM
Also ZBO is not good defender we all know that but he is number 3 rebounds!!!You miss a shot ZBO is gonna get it.

Kashmir13579
05-10-2013, 04:15 PM
I think they are close, but Memphis takes care of the ball much better, and Indiana's offense comes and goes. But they are similar teams.

Bingo.

Blitzbolt
05-10-2013, 04:19 PM
I love the Pacers they are the Grizz of the East and we are the Pacers of the West.

Last year the Pacers got all they glory by the Media yet we had almost the same team so fighting about this is dumb.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2013, 04:28 PM
Memphis won 57 games in the West for starters. They are a more experienced team and their big men are better, much much better on O too.

to be fair, they are very similar in both offensive and defensive ratings. Memphis is 6th in SRS, Indiana 9th. Indiana is 1st in defense, Memphis 2nd. Memphis is 17th in offense, Indiana 20th.

But as I said earlier, turnover margin heavily favors Memphis, and a good point Chronz made was, they ousted their chucker, so there is a stronger ability to keep their offense from being so up and down.

Minimal
05-10-2013, 04:29 PM
I would say they are pretty much identical teams, but the way media/fans sees it is simply because Memphis has more chance to compete with the Heat.
Indiana lost to Heat last year without Bosh, so that gives a minus for them. Memphis is a great team with great bigs (better than Indiana ones) who can damage the Heat in the post (Miami weakness), which exactly what happened in the last couple of years. Besides that I think they have a really great ball movement and shot selection which makes a huge difference.
So Memphis is seen to be the biggest challenge for the Heat, therefore they are seen as "better" team.

Sadds The Gr8
05-10-2013, 04:43 PM
Memphis is better at 4 positions....not by much, but still.

IversonIsKrazy
05-10-2013, 06:50 PM
Gasol/Zbo >>>> Hibbert/West.

Shlumpledink
05-10-2013, 06:57 PM
Memphis has bigger names, the media doesn't catch onto things too quickly. Indiana might actually be the superior team. Maybe they're discounted because they are playing without danny granger, and he is the only name on the pacers that the media recognizes. Paul George is a year or two from getting his dues from the media. If he were more known he might be the defensive player of the year.

Hangtime
05-10-2013, 10:11 PM
I would say they are pretty much identical teams, but the way media/fans sees it is simply because Memphis has more chance to compete with the Heat.
Indiana lost to Heat last year without Bosh, so that gives a minus for them. Memphis is a great team with great bigs (better than Indiana ones) who can damage the Heat in the post (Miami weakness), which exactly what happened in the last couple of years. Besides that I think they have a really great ball movement and shot selection which makes a huge difference.
So Memphis is seen to be the biggest challenge for the Heat, therefore they are seen as "better" team.
Very good point. We already saw Pacers vs Heat. And Bosh wasn't even playing. And Indy is without Granger as well. So more people anticipate what a Griz/Heat matchup would look like.

goingfor28
05-10-2013, 10:33 PM
the media. grizz have zbo and gasol, thats it. clipps got beat bad bc they had no one who could guard those two, especially once blakes ankle was hurt.
but they both can step back and hit a mid range J, and are excellent at boxing out and grabbing boards, and both seem to encourage contact. they wont be an easy out

Twins Fanatic
05-10-2013, 10:54 PM
They play in the west son, would easy be the 2 seed in the east.

b@llhog24
05-11-2013, 12:07 AM
Cause Marc Gasol is a bad bad man.