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View Full Version : Monta Ellis and Larry Sanders were Physically Seperated After Game Three



Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 06:00 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/monta-ellis-larry-sanders-had-reportedly-separated-engaging-175044303.html

time4change
05-09-2013, 06:04 PM
Hopefully this is Monta leaving Milwaukee.

smith&wesson
05-09-2013, 06:04 PM
I give sanders props for standing up and trying to be a leader. These are possitive things he is saying to his team. trying to get their focus on the series rather then free agency next season.

imo ellis is as good as gone. probably jennings too. oh well they both over rated.

smith&wesson
05-09-2013, 06:04 PM
Hopefully this is Monta leaving Milwaukee.

+1

OceanSpray
05-09-2013, 06:08 PM
Ellis is like a lesser version of Allen Iverson. Hard headed, can only score, and ballhogs.

smith&wesson
05-09-2013, 06:11 PM
Ellis is like a lesser version of Allen Iverson. Hard headed, can only score, and ballhogs.

only iverson was probably 100000000000 x better. he actually took his team to the finals.

KingPosey
05-09-2013, 06:16 PM
I guess Sanders was trying to "be a leader", but he also could have just played better. I also dot think the time to call Monta out for being selfish, is the one game where he ony takes like 9 shots.

If anyone else on that team could have scored 10 points maybe their guards wouldn't have to shoot every single time they saw day light. I bet it was every bit as frustrating for Monta and AJ, to know if they didn't score 80 ppg they couldn't win. And I don't like either of them.

shep33
05-09-2013, 06:17 PM
Really where are they going with Monta anyways? Sanders is the guy they need to keep. Talk about dynamic frontcourts, Sanders + Erysan + Hensen is solid

DumDum
05-09-2013, 06:19 PM
pat Riley can get make it happen discount !

ManRam
05-09-2013, 06:45 PM
they gotta get monta the hell up outta there.

i preemptively feel bad for whoever signs monta ellis

Blitzace137
05-09-2013, 06:50 PM
Both Jennings and Ellis are losing players imo. The Bucks should start re-building with Sanders and Erysan

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 07:28 PM
they gotta get monta the hell up outta there.

i preemptively feel bad for whoever signs monta ellis

Same here. Unless its the Spurs (Pop would turn him back into year 3 efficient tough D playing Monta) I really don't think he'd add any great value to any team if he's logging major minutes.

Baller1
05-09-2013, 07:31 PM
Bye Monta.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 07:32 PM
Both Jennings and Ellis are losing players imo. The Bucks should start re-building with Sanders and Erysan

Don't see guys with the talent level of Monta or Jennings being losing players. They just need the right coaching/leadership and support and you'd see them flourish. They're too good to be losers they're just not fit to cornerstones of quality teams.

I mean seriously place Jennings next to LeBron in Cleveland instead of Mo Will and he makes the all star team as well.

lol, please
05-09-2013, 07:35 PM
I want to see Monta Ellis on the Lakers.

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 07:36 PM
Don't see guys with the talent level of Monta or Jennings being losing players. They just need the right coaching/leadership and support and you'd see them flourish. They're too good to be losers they're just not fit to cornerstones of quality teams.

I mean seriously place Jennings next to LeBron in Cleveland instead of Mo Will and he makes the all star team as well.

Jennings is worse than Monta Ellis. And that's difficult to be.

Absolutely crazy how bad Brandon Jennings is honestly.

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 07:37 PM
I want to see Monta Ellis on the Lakers.

Me too, on a max deal preferably.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 07:45 PM
Jennings is worse than Monta Ellis. And that's difficult to be.

Absolutely crazy how bad Brandon Jennings is honestly.

And that couldn't be more wrong. Is he worse than Monta? Maybe. Is he that bad? Hell no. Speaks volumes to your talent evaluation of rather lack of. Jennings has shown the ability to be an extremely solid defender, plus 3 point shooter, quality passer and has the ability to score in great volumes when needed. It's his mental that isn't quite there. If he gets that right he'd consistently remain in the top 10-15 pg conversation.

lol, please
05-09-2013, 07:46 PM
Jennings is a top 10 PG? I've heard it all now.

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 07:50 PM
What's crazier is that he said he is a good passer and plays good defense.

Every PG that plays against the Bucks goes off on Jennings.

mdm692
05-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Ellis to Sacramento(I saw that rumor somewhere), Evans and Jennings to Dallas.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Jennings is a top 10 PG? I've heard it all now.

No one alluded to such if that's what you got from my post you lack reading comprehension. I said if Jennings got his head right he'd remain in the top 10-15 meaning 10 through 15 conversation. I never said he's a top 10 PG. If I said Marc Gasol is in the conversation for best C in the league does that mean I said he's the best C in the league?

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Bucks were thirteen points better a game with Jennings off the court. :laugh2:

Nine points better on defense and four points better on offense.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 08:00 PM
What's crazier is that he said he is a good passer and plays good defense.

Every PG that plays against the Bucks goes off on Jennings.

Damn you dudes really don't know how thread don't you. Guess I should break it down for you.

I said Jennings showed the ability to be solid on D. That's a fact. Here's (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1071) some evidence for ya.


Second Team - Brandon Jennings, Milwaukee
Don't laugh. While the book on Jennings was that he was too slight to be anything but a liability on defense, I've been impressed when I've seen him play and his numbers are strong across the board. In particular, Jennings' dMult of .864 (meaning opposing point guards produced at 86.4 percent of their usual rate against the Bucks) is tops among the point guards I considered.


As a passer Brandon Jennings this *** season had 4.5 assists for every bad pass (passing turnover) he had this season. Among PGs this past season he ranks in the upper 3rd in that regard. He also has a passing rating of 9.4, conversely Step Curry this pass season had a 3.6 assist to bad pass ratio and a passing rating of 9.0 (both below average). You watch Curry play more than probably any other PG in the league right? Do you think he's a good passer? I'm quite certain at if you watch Jennings play half as much as you watched Curry you'd say the same.

I watched Jennings play a decent amount of times in his time in the NBA and every time I watch him play it screams that this guy still needs to learn to play the game the right way and take advantage of all his talents. If you really think he's as bad as you're alluding to you need to do a lot more watching.

lol, please
05-09-2013, 08:02 PM
@ swashcuff saying he is in the conversation is implying that you think his ceiling surpasses that of the 10th best PG in the league. I say it's not even close. If you say Marc Gasol is in the conversation for top 5 C, then yes, you think he maybe can be, the best at the position, even if you are going by potential. By that rational Ellis has the potential to be a top 8 PG. Am I right?

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 08:06 PM
Bucks were thirteen points better a game with Jennings off the court. :laugh2:

Nine points better on defense and four points better on offense.

Didn't I have a discussion with you about stats and understanding how to use them? According to 82games.com (the same site you got your info from) the Rockets are better with Harden off the floor than on. Last season the Thunder were better with Harden on the floor than they were with both Westbrook and Durant. What does that say about those numbers and understanding how to put them into context?

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 08:08 PM
Jennings hasn't worked on lateral movement, on ball defense, rotations, or when to swtich all four years he has been in the league. Any improvement in any of these categories would be small and he'd still be awful at it.

Jennings is an awful passer. Assist's don't show it. But the Bucks are better at passing when he is off the floor. By two percent.


Curry on the other hand makes his team better with his passing. Warriors assisted rate goes to 59 to 55 with Curry off.

I suggest you actually watch the game or pay attention to his choices. There is a reason why the offense is four points better with him off the floor, which is a worse rate than Ellis' despite him scoring more efficiently than Ellis.

TrueFan420
05-09-2013, 08:09 PM
Both Jennings and Ellis are losing players imo. The Bucks should start re-building with Sanders and Erysan

Put either on a team where they don't have to do everything and can a 3rd option and people will call them very good winning players. Everybody on the bucks are losing players.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 08:10 PM
@ swashcuff saying he is in the conversation is implying that you think his ceiling surpasses that of the 10th best PG in the league. I say it's not even close. If you say Marc Gasol is in the conversation for top 5 C, then yes, you think he maybe can be, the best at the position, even if you are going by potential. By that rational Ellis has the potential to be a top 8 PG. Am I right?

Dude seriously? I did NOT say Jennings is in the conversation I said that if he gets his mental right he'd remain in that conversation. You're assuming that me saying that he can one day get into the conversation for top 10 through 15 means that I think he's top 10. You're WRONG!

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 08:10 PM
Ellis is a better PG than Jennings.

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 08:11 PM
Put either on a team where they don't have to do everything and can a 3rd option and people will call them very good winning players. Everybody on the bucks are losing players.

Larry Sanders was the best defensive player in the league this year or at the very least top three.

He is not a loser. Nor is Reddick, nor was Tobias (traded), nor is Ilyasova.

lol, please
05-09-2013, 08:11 PM
Ellis is obviously better than Jennings, which means that if jennings can one day be a top 10-15 PG, then Ellis ceiling is even higher.

Tony_Starks
05-09-2013, 08:17 PM
Sanders gets no props for that. If you're going to call someone out then be man enough to say who you're talking about or pull them to the side. I'm sure he had no complaints when they were hitting game winners to get them in the playoffs.

@Swashcuff you must not have learned there's absolutely no speaking positively about B Jennings on PSD. Or Monta, they're both on the list.

KingPosey
05-09-2013, 08:18 PM
Dude seriously? I did NOT say Jennings is in the conversation I said that if he gets his mental right he'd remain in that conversation. You're assuming that me saying that he can one day get into the conversation for top 10 through 15 means that I think he's top 10. You're WRONG!

While I liked some of your stats for your argument, by saying he could "REMAIN in the conversation" you are
Absolutely ARE saying he "IS in the conversation". You would have to be saying he is in that area in order for him to REMAIN in that area, by definition.

Jarvo
05-09-2013, 08:21 PM
Hey The Spurs will take Monta :dance: & I really don't see all the hate he gets yeah he is a chucker but saying all that wow lol, To me he's a smaller version of Melo.

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 08:23 PM
Sanders gets no props for that. If you're going to call someone out then be man enough to say who you're talking about or pull them to the side. I'm sure he had no complaints when they were hitting game winners to get them in the playoffs.

@Swashcuff you must not have learned there's absolutely no speaking positively about B Jennings on PSD. Or Monta, they're both on the list.

uh, if you take away all the Bucks game winners they'd still be in the playoffs. If you take off Ellis and Jennings, they wouldn't have needed to be in the position of needing a game winner.

This is obviously a thing that's been building up for a while. Ellis and Jennings are not good players and players don't like playing with them.

Lee earlier in the year made fun of Ellis. Won't talk about his experience, but you don't make fun of players that you liked playing with.

Guppyfighter
05-09-2013, 08:23 PM
Hey The Spurs will take Monta :dance: & I really don't see all the hate he gets yeah he is a chucker but saying all that wow lol, To me he's a smaller version of Melo.

Knick fans should be upset about this comment.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 08:32 PM
Jennings hasn't worked on lateral movement, on ball defense, rotations, or when to swtich all four years he has been in the league. Any improvement in any of these categories would be small and he'd still be awful at it.

Why not reply to the facts?

He showed EXCELLENT defensive instincts, was active in the passing lane contrary to your ignorant belief he actual displayed good lateral movement. He was also a solid on ball defender. I have a question how do you know that he hasn't worked on these aspects of his game when you clearly don't watch him play?


Jennings is an awful passer. Assist's don't show it. But the Bucks are better at passing when he is off the floor. By two percent.

LMFAO how foolish does that sound? Assists don't show that Jennings is decent passer but the Bucks assists % when Jennings goes off the floor does. How could you even think that makes any sense? That defeats the point you attempted to make.


Curry on the other hand makes his team better with his passing. Warriors assisted rate goes to 59 to 55 with Curry off.

My dude here's what I'd like for you to do for me. Learn to understand statistics and how to use them holistically when attempting to ascertain a player's value or lack there of before you continue attempting to use stats which you don't understand how to properly use them.

Didn't I school you before on this very topic?

Let me help you understand what this stat means since you clearly don't. Its basic common sense tbh. Hopefully you'd see that. If there is a player who creates a lot of offense for himself and is rarely assisted (Jennings 37%) where are there is a player who tends to play off the ball a bit more/efficiently (Curry 41%) its only logical that you'd see a higher % of assists when said player is on the floor as compared to the one who assisted.

These things are basic common sense. Same goes for Westbrook. Only someone who doesn't know Jack about basketball would say he's not a good passer and really averages 5 assists a game and not 7-8.

If you STILLLLLLLLLL can't wrap you mind around this this is all I would leave you with. When Rose was on the floor in his MVP season his team's %ast was 58% when he went off it was 64%. What does that say about Derrick Rose as a passer? It doesn't say Jack. It says that when Derrick Rose goes to the bench there is no one to break down opposing defenses and as a result his team would need to pass more in order to get easier buckets. It was evident with the Bulls play last season (quickly turning into one of the best passing teams in the league with an offense predicated on ball movement).

These things should be basic common sense sadly it doesn't seem so.


I suggest you actually watch the game or pay attention to his choices. There is a reason why the offense is four points better with him off the floor, which is a worse rate than Ellis' despite him scoring more efficiently than Ellis.

What's the reason for James Harden's team being basically the same offensively with him on or off the floor despite the fact that was the best playmaker and second best scorer at the SG position this past season.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 08:35 PM
While I liked some of your stats for your argument, by saying he could "REMAIN in the conversation" you are
Absolutely ARE saying he "IS in the conversation". You would have to be saying he is in that area in order for him to REMAIN in that area, by definition.

Okay since the word remain seems to be confusing some peeps I'll break it down even further for you. I said if Jennings CAN work on his mental (meaning that he improves as a player) that he'd be a top 10-15 PG and remain in that conversation. I didn't mean that he IS there now I mean that once he improves he'd get there and remain there.

Sorry for any confusion.

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 08:37 PM
Ellis is obviously better than Jennings, which means that if jennings can one day be a top 10-15 PG, then Ellis ceiling is even higher.

Where did I say that Ellis isn't better than Jennings?

Tony_Starks
05-09-2013, 08:38 PM
Brandon Jennings and Monta both have game guys. I'm sorry most of you are missing it.

Hopefully one day soon they'll be on good enough teams to be recognized....

iFYouSeekAmy
05-09-2013, 08:40 PM
poor asandhu23- hopefully he will get back to this thread in about 6 weeks to defend Monta Ellis ;)

Swashcuff
05-09-2013, 08:48 PM
Brandon Jennings and Monta both have game guys. I'm sorry most of you are missing it.

Hopefully one day soon they'll be on good enough teams to be recognized....

Don't think a certain Warrior "fan" remembers their last team to finish with .500 + record and the role Monta played on that team. Monta is one of those players that can't fit in on contribute greatly on any team in the league (eg Iggy, Manu, Marc Gasol etc) he needs the right variables in place to be successful. While that's a MAJOR knock on him and Jennings both it doesn't make them bad players. Like I said place today's Jennings on 09 Cavs team and he'd be the all star and no Mo Williams.

VCaintdead17
05-09-2013, 08:50 PM
Monta could be a good sixth man for a team like Memphis

GiantsSwaGG
05-09-2013, 09:00 PM
Ellis is a better PG than Jennings.

:facepalm:

GiantsSwaGG
05-09-2013, 09:00 PM
Ellis is a cancer/thug

Teams should stay away from this bum

RJ_56
05-09-2013, 09:02 PM
Monta would excel as a 6th man. But honestly after the all star break he was actually decent. He's not as bad of a shooter for his career as this year and half in Milwaukee showed. Brandon is a little harder to predict because he is such a hot/cold player. He's only 23 and he could still reach his full potential with the right situation. He just frustrates us bucks fans because his idol is Iverson and he tries too much to mimic his game.

LeperMessiah
05-09-2013, 09:07 PM
Ellis is like a lesser version of Allen Iverson. Hard headed, can only score, and ballhogs.

yupp

Minimal
05-09-2013, 09:34 PM
Both Jennings and Ellis are chuckering bricklaying ballhogs (Ellis to a lesser extent). Sanders did a good thing to help them remember that.

NYCkid12
05-09-2013, 09:39 PM
Brandon Jennings and Monta both have game guys. I'm sorry most of you are missing it.

Hopefully one day soon they'll be on good enough teams to be recognized....

I'm assuming when you say they're both good players that you agree there worth what they will probably get this off season , which is probably pretty close to a max contract

And I'm sorry I can't say they're worth that when they have to be in the right situation to be productive

A max contract guy should excel in almost any situation and make players around him more productive because of his play... I don't see that from either of those guys

That being said I know max contracts are given to players who don't deserve it all the time, and I do agree with you that in the right situation (2nd or preferably 3rd option) on a team where they are not the main focus they can be productive... Unfortunately I don't see them as being guys who will be okay with no being the focal point of an offense

KingPosey
05-09-2013, 09:56 PM
Both Jennings and Ellis are chuckering bricklaying ballhogs (Ellis to a lesser extent). Sanders did a good thing to help them remember that.

I guess. He said it after a game in which Monta didn't even take 10 shots.

JasonJohnHorn
05-09-2013, 10:21 PM
I honestly don't see this as a big deal. Its the playoffs. Tempers and emotions are high. Nobody likes losing. Guys get intense. Shaq and Kobe had run ins and they still won championships together (not that Ellis and Sanders are are Kobe and Shaq's level). This happens. I've played basketball with good friends, just pick-up games, that mean nothing, and tempers can flare even then. Imagine you are getting paid millions of dollars to do this and you are getting embarrassed by LBJ and Wade on your homecourt. Things like this are going to happen.

Maybe Ellis leaves, maybe he doesn't. Who knows. Regardless, I doubt this incident will have any bearing on what he chooses to do.

When you play a physical sport like this, these things are more common than you think. I mean Shaq and Chuck got into a fist fight with each other on the floor before, and they are great friends (or so it seems).

Hell, MVP and Kobe went at each other in the playoffs and as soon as the season was over MWP signed up to play WITH Kobe. And I think we all know how much bad blood existed between Rodman and the Bulls before Jordan, Pippen and Rodman got together to post the best record in league history to kick of three titles in a row.

TheNumber37
05-09-2013, 10:29 PM
Monta is a 6th man

I bet he lands in Orlando or Detroit...
Mil should do whatever they can to Sign and trade both Jennings and Ellis.
BJ for Milsap?

Asik's better
05-09-2013, 10:48 PM
Would rate Jennings ahead of Ellis. If I'm the bucks, I would keep BJ and dump Ellis. It's no coincidence that currys playing his best b-ball after Ellis was traded. The man is poison.

TrueFan420
05-10-2013, 12:23 AM
Would rate Jennings ahead of Ellis. If I'm the bucks, I would keep BJ and dump Ellis. It's no coincidence that currys playing his best b-ball after Ellis was traded. The man is poison.

It has more to do with curry finally getting to have the ball in his hands and playing off of it all the time.

Blitzace137
05-10-2013, 12:45 AM
Put either on a team where they don't have to do everything and can a 3rd option and people will call them very good winning players. Everybody on the bucks are losing players.

This I agree with only way I wouldn't consider them a losing type players is if they were placed in the right system and were the third option. I called them losing players because they can't be the number one or two option of any serious contenders.

Blitzace137
05-10-2013, 12:47 AM
Would rate Jennings ahead of Ellis. If I'm the bucks, I would keep BJ and dump Ellis. It's no coincidence that currys playing his best b-ball after Ellis was traded. The man is poison.

Except Jennings was no better before or after Ellis came to the Bucks. They both need to go to teams where there better fits. I think Jennings paired with Dirk in Dallas might be a good fit.

DreamShaker
05-10-2013, 12:55 AM
I want to see Monta Ellis on the Lakers.

So does everyone else. Besides Lakers fans. Lol.

NYCkid12
05-10-2013, 09:23 AM
Monta is a 6th man

I bet he lands in Orlando or Detroit...
Mil should do whatever they can to Sign and trade both Jennings and Ellis.
BJ for Milsap?

I hope to God not LOL

Jarvo
05-10-2013, 09:36 AM
Knick fans should be upset about this comment.

They are though got love for Monta and Melo but how arent they different?? Only thing Melo is taller both are chuckers but Monta is always shooting.