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View Full Version : Which was the first team to really inverse its offense?



Chronz
05-07-2013, 06:57 PM
Traditional basketball was about bigs scoring inside, guards working on getting them the ball, and forwards doing alil of both.

But an inverse offense is obviously centered around bigmen shooting jumpers, guards posting up..... how many teams have done it and who came first?

Im not talking specifically about stretch bigs and slashing perimeter guys which are fairly common nowadays, but post play from your guards with bigmen who may not just rely on outside shots but can stretch it enough to make life easier for their post up guards....


I have a few teams in mind but I want to hear y'all out first.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-07-2013, 07:43 PM
Don't worry Chronz, Someone will answer you soon:)

ThunderousDemon
05-07-2013, 07:53 PM
:cricket:

Chronz
05-07-2013, 08:00 PM
Worry? Plz elaborate.

Kashmir13579
05-07-2013, 09:58 PM
Rasheed Wallace? Trailblazers?

I don't know.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-07-2013, 10:08 PM
:cricket:

:laugh:

JEDean89
05-07-2013, 10:14 PM
i don't think there are any teams that plan to do this because it pulls their bigs away from the offensive boards but there are definitely guards who post up and bigs who like the perimeter. andre miller is a decent post up guard. why westbrook, wall and rose aren't posting up with their size and athleticism is beyond me.

Chronz
05-07-2013, 10:22 PM
Westbrook has been posting up more and more over the years but prolly not enough to qualify.

Im talking more about a team like the GP-Perkins/Kemp connection. GP played alot down on the blocks with his center spacing it out for him.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-07-2013, 10:34 PM
How about you just tell us what teams did, instead of asking a question most people don't really care that much to think about? Your thread would probably get a little better discussion that way.

kdspurman
05-07-2013, 10:40 PM
For me, The Nuggets (Andre Miller) & Nets (Deron Williams) are the ones that come to mind when I think about that.

*Edit read it wrong, thought it was asking who does it now... Gotta rethink now :/

--23--
05-07-2013, 10:48 PM
Cassell/Ray/Tim Thomas/Glen Rice - Bucks
Billups/Rip/Wallace - Detroit
D-Will/Okur/Boozer - Utah... I don't know if Williams will qualify though.

TheNumber37
05-07-2013, 11:11 PM
Answer the questions individually to get your answer.
Who were the first bigs (6'10 and above) to have a legitimate jumper? Not a skyhook, nut a 15 footer facing up. A guards spot up and off the dribble shooting?

Who were the first guards to post up? Guards have been doing that for a while, Jerry west would back down a guy before shooting over the top... BUT as far as guards scoring from the post... who does this? There a guards who finish in the lane, but that can't be considered post play... Only Kobe, Wade, Joe Johnson (sometimes)...

I think for bigs, it's Dirk/KG
And for guards, it's MJ?

Bruno
05-08-2013, 02:10 AM
did robertson play with jump shooting big men post kareem? didn't he use his size in the post?

JEDean89
05-08-2013, 02:31 AM
Billups, Wallace is a good example

JEDean89
05-08-2013, 02:32 AM
Billups, Wallace is a good example

Bravo95
05-08-2013, 03:05 AM
Riley's Lakers? (Magic posting up, McAdoo/Worthy from midrange)

Greet
05-08-2013, 08:32 AM
Wow this is a very interesting question. But I don't know if there really is an offense that was truly ran to have bigs outside and guards in the post. Might end up that way on occasions, but not as a set run offense.

hornetsfansydne
05-08-2013, 08:47 AM
MJ's Bulls? He played in the post a lot but not sure about the bigs outside... This info is only coming from documentaries, I didn't follow the NBA when I grew up, too hard to watch games/highlights in Aus before the internet

archdevil84
05-08-2013, 08:55 AM
bosh shoots alot of jumpers :D

eugene
05-08-2013, 08:58 AM
Jordans' Bulls was the first team winning consecutive championships without having legitimate big... Both, Pippen and MJ were so universal that they could do all, post-up, play outside, shoot jumpers, etc.

elledaddy
05-08-2013, 09:05 AM
Old seattle from Ricky pierce,Gary Payton,Vincent askew to Derrick Mickey, Detlef Schrempf,Sam Perkins

JasonJohnHorn
05-08-2013, 10:14 AM
I think this has likely been happening almost as long as the league has been around. I've only been watching since the late 80's, but the Lakers (West and Goodrich) relied on two guards to do the bulk of their scoring and a SF. Not sure what those guys did in the post.

As for since I've been watching, the Pistons in 89/90 relied on two guards as well and didn't have any real low-post scorers. James Edwards works the post a bit, but Laimbeer was known as a three-point shooter who was great with the high pick-and-roll.

As for guards posting up, I think bigger guards have always done that to smaller guards. Magic did it, Jordan did it, Payton did it to smaller PGs, Kobe does it obviously.

Chronz
05-08-2013, 04:01 PM
Cassell/Ray/Tim Thomas/Glen Rice - Bucks
Billups/Rip/Wallace - Detroit
D-Will/Okur/Boozer - Utah... I don't know if Williams will qualify though.

Sam did have a nice post game, I remember those Bucks but you're thinking about Big Dog instead of Rice. They did look the same so I get the confusion, especially by that point when Rice got fat.

Chronz
05-08-2013, 04:02 PM
Riley's Lakers? (Magic posting up, McAdoo/Worthy from midrange)

Yeah, didn't it also seem like Magic lived in the post when KAJ retired?

Chronz
05-08-2013, 04:08 PM
I think this has likely been happening almost as long as the league has been around. I've only been watching since the late 80's, but the Lakers (West and Goodrich) relied on two guards to do the bulk of their scoring and a SF. Not sure what those guys did in the post.
They were mostly outside shooters tho, far from post oriented guys like GP, Cassell and the like. Maybe the early Frazier-Reed Knicks were comparable but I dont have much footage on them


As for since I've been watching, the Pistons in 89/90 relied on two guards as well and didn't have any real low-post scorers. James Edwards works the post a bit, but Laimbeer was known as a three-point shooter who was great with the high pick-and-roll.
Your right, cant believe I forgot about Dantley, prolly pound for pound the best post up player ever.


As for guards posting up, I think bigger guards have always done that to smaller guards. Magic did it, Jordan did it, Payton did it to smaller PGs, Kobe does it obviously.
The Bulls could fit that description, especially when they ran the Kukoc-Rodman lineup at 4/5.

JasonJohnHorn
05-08-2013, 05:57 PM
They were mostly outside shooters tho, far from post oriented guys like GP, Cassell and the like. Maybe the early Frazier-Reed Knicks were comparable but I dont have much footage on them


Your right, cant believe I forgot about Dantley, prolly pound for pound the best post up player ever.


The Bulls could fit that description, especially when they ran the Kukoc-Rodman lineup at 4/5.


I think generally team work with what they got. If they got a big that can shoot (Laimbeer, Perkins, Sabonis) they work with it, if they got a guard that can post up (Magic, Jordan, Payton, Kidd, Billups, Kobe) they work with it. If they have both, they work with that. The Pistons were the best example. Thomas was a drive-to-the-basket kind of scorer, Dumars was a shooter, neither were post player, but Laimbeer and Rodman back then used to shoot threes. Jordan was a post player.... great in the post (as he was driving and mid-range) but they didn't have the shooters in the post (though Kukoc could be used as such). It's not too often teams have the luxury of having both.

LAKERS 24/7
05-08-2013, 05:57 PM
the lakers after the shaq era inverted the triangle offense regularly by posting up kobe, luke walton, etc.. where the offense traditionally calls a big