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View Full Version : NBA should allow high school players to enter the draft: BUY/SELL



B.JenningsMVP
05-06-2013, 05:21 PM
I was having a convo with my friend on this topic.
I said high school players should have the right to enter but he disagreed.


What do you guys think? Should they or should they not, and why?

kobe4thewinbang
05-06-2013, 05:35 PM
They changed it for a reason. Too many pups with no education or skills.

TeamSeattle
05-06-2013, 05:36 PM
They should change it back to 2 or three years of college, it breeds better fundamentals. So I'd have to disagree on age of 18 eligibility.

TheBlackHole
05-06-2013, 05:55 PM
No, it should be 4 years in college first. When you are 18-19 years old, you are still a kid. Majority of high school ball players and alot of one and done players are not ready and haven't had the proper coaching when they enter the NBA. I feel more rookies and second & third year players used to be alot better when most players stayed in college 3-4 years.

VendettaRed07
05-06-2013, 05:57 PM
No more one and dones.

They should give players a choice. Either go directly into the NBA, or go to college for 2 or 3 years. Will be best for both parties. That way players who CAN go directly into the NBA can, and college teams when they land a top prospect don't loose them and have to restock every year. Would make the tournament more interesting too with big stars having to come back at least once

VendettaRed07
05-06-2013, 06:02 PM
No, it should be 4 years in college first. When you are 18-19 years old, you are still a kid. Majority of high school ball players and alot of one and done players are not ready and haven't had the proper coaching when they enter the NBA. I feel more rookies and second & third year players used to be alot better when most players stayed in college 3-4 years.

The most dominant player in our league was drafted straight out of college. And since we've forced kids to start going to college, its not like rookies have gotten any better. If anything draft classes have been worse. so I never understood that logic.

18 year olds aren't kids. They are adults, they should be allowed to work in a field that they are completely qualified and capable of working in. They are missing out on millions of dollars they might never make back

kobe4thewinbang
05-06-2013, 06:06 PM
18 year olds aren't kids. They are adults, they should be allowed to work in a field that they are completely qualified and capable of working in. They are missing out on millions of dollars they might never make backOr they might flush out and have nothing to fall back on. I agree with VendettaRed07.

jon32
05-06-2013, 06:10 PM
I wouldnt mind them having an " exceptional player " rule or somthing.

JPS
05-06-2013, 06:15 PM
They should be allowed, but each team should have a d league team to send most of them to.

Jamiecballer
05-06-2013, 06:21 PM
definitely not. the quality of both leagues (NCAA and NBA) has suffered a lot already with the one and dones.

Rivera
05-06-2013, 06:23 PM
I think baseball.has it right

bowieinspace
05-06-2013, 06:34 PM
They should make high school kids qualify for something. The McDonald's game comes to mind. If you play well in a game of that sort in high school, then go. Lebron, melo?, rose. If not you have to go through college. Just my thoughts.

SMH!
05-06-2013, 06:37 PM
They should make high school kids qualify for something. The McDonald's game comes to mind. If you play well in a game of that sort in high school, then go. Lebron, melo?, rose. If not you have to go through college. Just my thoughts.

well what if, say Lebron just had a really bad game at the Mcdonalds game even though he is ready and dominated high school, just one bad game, so he wouldnt be allowed to enter?

bowieinspace
05-06-2013, 06:42 PM
Then go to college and learn how to not f up in big games!

Haha

Asik's better
05-06-2013, 06:54 PM
They should have at least 2 to 3 years in college and some sort of education. That way if they don't make it, at least they have something to fall back on.

gaughan333
05-06-2013, 07:00 PM
I like the way baseball does it.

BenFrank
05-06-2013, 07:02 PM
If I was a highly scouted Highschool basketball player, I would go overseas make some money and enjoy the night life till i'm eligible for the nba draft

In my opionion, if u have the talent to play they should let u play.. ( Lebron, KG, Howard, ) I feel if the sport was more White/American dominant they would have never changed the rule to force kids to go to college..

but as soon as these kids start going oversea's, they gone change the rule back to 18

P.S. this is not up for a race debate.. it was just my opinion

gaughan333
05-06-2013, 07:06 PM
They should have at least 2 to 3 years in college and some sort of education. That way if they don't make it, at least they have something to fall back on.

2 to 3 years of college doesn't give you anything to fall back on. And lets please stop pretending like these kids get any real education when they are forced to go to college. They should be allowed to make their own decision. If they flop, sucks for them, such is life. Luckily they'll have the $ from their rookie contracts to fall back on.

gaughan333
05-06-2013, 07:08 PM
If I was a highly scouted Highschool basketball player, I would go overseas make some money and enjoy the night life till i'm eligible for the nba draft

In my opionion, if u have the talent to play they should let u play.. ( Lebron, KG, Howard, ) I feel if the sport was more White/American dominant they would have never changed the rule to force kids to go to college..

but as soon as these kids start going oversea's, they gone change the rule back to 18

P.S. this is not up for a race debate.. it was just my opinion

Care to elaborate?

TopsyTurvy
05-06-2013, 07:11 PM
I prefer the way soccer selects talent. Money flows from professional organizations, through academies, all the way down to the family as early as the player exhibits talent and the rights to the player are secured at a very early time (the parity lies in the maximum players can earn). Players are then given the right to choose where they want to play and develop and then resold to teams around the world. Prefer a draft, fine - but I'm talking about the development of professionals from the age of 15.

Professional soccer players on an international stage are not exploited for dollars by being required to play as an amateur (except at the early teenage level), they are reared as master tradesmen in a given profession and supported from a very early age to be successful at both sport and life. Collegiate sports (in the American sense) are an anachronistic establishment set on making dollars for the establishments they represent often while ignoring their athletes all together (changing grades for elegibility, bribing player's family and agents to offer some sort of compensation beyond a farse of an education).

The system is in need of massive reform. Call a spade a spade and build a network to support these players from the very early formative years with income and the life lessons needed to guide them to a career in professional sports.

JC_
05-06-2013, 07:12 PM
Certain guys don't need College to get them ready for the NBA (Lebron James). I think there should be some kind of non-basketball testing to gauge whether a player is mature enough to be in the league. The truly remarkable athletes are usually pretty smart and should get the chance to be drafted out of highschool IMO.

Asik's better
05-06-2013, 07:13 PM
2 to 3 years of college doesn't give you anything to fall back on. And lets please stop pretending like these kids get any real education when they are forced to go to college. They should be allowed to make their own decision. If they flop, sucks for them, such is life. Luckily they'll have the $ from their rookie contracts to fall back on.
Yeah I'm sure players like Robert swift are enjoying all that money to fall back on. Oh wait....

Lake_Show2416
05-06-2013, 07:14 PM
they should make it either 2 years of college or allow the players to come straight from high school, the 1 year thing is a joke, players go for 1 semester than forget about school, its meaningless

JC_
05-06-2013, 07:20 PM
I prefer the way soccer selects talent. Money flows from professional organizations, through academies, all the way down to the family as early as the player exhibits talent and the rights to the player are secured at a very early time (the parity lies in the maximum players can earn). Players are then given the right to choose where they want to play and develop and then resold to teams around the world.



I think if the NBA started a program to groom guys with immense talent it would be awesome.

BKLYNpigeon
05-06-2013, 07:24 PM
heres what they should do...

They should have a committee of all 30 NBA General Managers to take a vote on a player to allow him to come to the NBA. you need at least 25 votes to get to enter the draft as a high school player. otherwise you have to play overseas or 2-3 years in college.

If a Rare talent like Kobe, Lebron, Garnett etc. comes around you cant deny them from coming to the NBA when they are already better then half of the players.

Ty_Lawson
05-07-2013, 05:13 PM
There is so many players out there that you don't need to draft for next few years..so no, first finish your college then go pro, then we would be able to see players like Wiggins playing vs players McLemore and see true value of those players ;)

kingkenny01
05-07-2013, 05:31 PM
I believe they should have a committee made of former nba gms and scouts, all players in high school who are interested in entering the nba must apply to the committee. If the player has more than 75% chance of being in the lottery they can enter the draft, everyone else must wait two year to be drafted. This allows the lebron james, dwight howard, Kevin Garnett type players to not waste time in college, while teams will also get more finished products with players who stay two plus years .

odiz
05-07-2013, 05:34 PM
It should either be 3-4 years of college or allow them to leave right out of high school. What is the point of going to college for a year?

odiz
05-07-2013, 05:37 PM
heres what they should do...

They should have a committee of all 30 NBA General Managers to take a vote on a player to allow him to come to the NBA. you need at least 25 votes to get to enter the draft as a high school player. otherwise you have to play overseas or 2-3 years in college.

If a Rare talent like Kobe, Lebron, Garnett etc. comes around you cant deny them from coming to the NBA when they are already better then half of the players.

That wouldnt work at all. If there was a guy like Lebron entering the draft all the teams who didnt have the #1 pick would vote against him to keep him out of the league for another year and in hopes of getting the #1 pick and drafting him themselves in the future.

odiz
05-07-2013, 05:39 PM
What they could do is make a rule where high school players can only be picked in the lottery. So a high school player chooses a college and enters the draft. If they get picked in the first 14 picks they go to the NBA if not they head to the college that they chose. This allows the elite talents to go straight to the NBA.

Ty_Lawson
05-07-2013, 05:46 PM
What aboud they can only get drafted to D-League team if they are out of HS??

Nats_vcu-Okc35
05-07-2013, 05:51 PM
How about kids enter the draft out of high school or get a degree? Allows for kids to graduate in three years if they are motivated to do so, and can then leave after their junior year. If they drop out, they are held out of the draft for a year.

Kids out of high school are on the same rookie wage scale, but are approaching their first real max contract when their peer group is graduating and getting their rookie contracts.

Helps to protect prodigies, developmental players, risk for teams, universities reps. as educational institutuions, the NBA and NCAA continuity year to year.

raiderposting
05-07-2013, 06:02 PM
They should be allowed straight out of high school its ********. No other person is forced to go to college. 1. One year of college they won't learn **** anyway. Even if you make it 2-3 years you're delusional if you don't know they get away with mostly not doing ****. They get passed anyway and/or have people do their work for them. 18 to 21 isn't that different. If at 18 they would be waisting their money at 21 they would still be idiots with their money.

JWO35
05-07-2013, 06:15 PM
Either Come straight out of HS or be forced to play college basketball for 2yrs...

1-800-STFU
05-07-2013, 06:23 PM
Free Choice.

Wanna leave? Leave. Go to college? Go to college. Leave after 1 year? Then leave.

We are in no position to tell other people what is good for them, let them make their own decisions about their own lives.

BALLER R
05-07-2013, 06:34 PM
Why can I join the Army at 18 but can't play in the NBA.

AWC713
05-07-2013, 06:34 PM
They changed it for a reason. Too many pups with no education or skills.

so going to kentucky for a year helps with their education? no.

what SHOULD be done...is yes, you can go pro if your 18...but if you decided to go to college, you have to stay for at least 3 years.

this way, college basketball isnt ruined, any players can actually DEVELOP

rhd420
05-07-2013, 06:37 PM
How about kids enter the draft out of high school or get a degree? Allows for kids to graduate in three years if they are motivated to do so, and can then leave after their junior year. If they drop out, they are held out of the draft for a year.

Kids out of high school are on the same rookie wage scale, but are approaching their first real max contract when their peer group is graduating and getting their rookie contracts.

Helps to protect prodigies, developmental players, risk for teams, universities reps. as educational institutuions, the NBA and NCAA continuity year to year.

The NCAA is another branch of the NBA D League already - simply put if kids can DIE for their country at 17 in the military, they can play for the NBA - it does not by no means guarantee them a spot in the league but heck if a team is crazy enough to draft them why not?

Why should one limit the ability for some one to earn a living collecting a pay check, the simple fact is IF the current NBA CBA had it in the deal where they can cut players just like the NFL, then absolutely they would do it, this is more a player's association decision

This is not a developing physical nature of the human body like the NFL, the kids in high school can play ball in the league if they wanted to physically but how well is the question. You can't say hey there isn't proof - Kobe, KG and Howard ... heck Moses I think as well all out of High School

NBA should STOP pretending they are protecting the youth, they just want to protect their older players and profit margins and keep the kids in college to play ball, really a 1 year plan? Don't pretend a scholarship is worth that to a kid

Teeboy1487
05-07-2013, 06:48 PM
First, I think the college rule should be increased to 2 years instead of 1. However, high school players should be allowed to be drafted, but it should be mandatory that they spend a year in the d-league first.

LayBraun
05-07-2013, 06:52 PM
You should have the choice to go right to the NBA and if you choose otherwise you should have to at least play 2 years in college

Jamiecballer
05-07-2013, 06:52 PM
They should be allowed straight out of high school its ********. No other person is forced to go to college. 1. One year of college they won't learn **** anyway. Even if you make it 2-3 years you're delusional if you don't know they get away with mostly not doing ****. They get passed anyway and/or have people do their work for them. 18 to 21 isn't that different. If at 18 they would be waisting their money at 21 they would still be idiots with their money.
i think you might be missing one key component here. this is about an age issue, not a going to college issue. thus they aren't being "forced to go to college".

gaughan333
05-07-2013, 06:52 PM
Yeah I'm sure players like Robert swift are enjoying all that money to fall back on. Oh wait....

If you can't manage money...that's your problem, attending college does not fix that. If you wanna force the kids to take some sort of financial classes before the NBA, that may work, making them attend 1 year of college does nothing. Way to ignore the rest of the argument.

KnickaBocka.44
05-07-2013, 06:54 PM
I think it should be the same as football which allows a player to enter the draft after they are 2 years removed from high school.

gaughan333
05-07-2013, 06:54 PM
They should be allowed straight out of high school its ********. No other person is forced to go to college. 1. One year of college they won't learn **** anyway. Even if you make it 2-3 years you're delusional if you don't know they get away with mostly not doing ****. They get passed anyway and/or have people do their work for them. 18 to 21 isn't that different. If at 18 they would be waisting their money at 21 they would still be idiots with their money.

They aren't really forced to go to college. They can go play somewhere else, or take a year off. I think the NBA only forces them to wait 1 year from graduating. (I could be off here). Regardless, I agree with your overall point.

StriveGreatness
05-07-2013, 06:58 PM
Free Choice.

Wanna leave? Leave. Go to college? Go to college. Leave after 1 year? Then leave.

We are in no position to tell other people what is good for them, let them make their own decisions about their own lives.

This is the way I see it.

raiderposting
05-07-2013, 06:58 PM
i think you might be missing one key component here. this is about an age issue, not a going to college issue. thus they aren't being "forced to go to college".

18 or 19. No difference

Jamiecballer
05-07-2013, 07:06 PM
18 or 19. No difference

i'm not sure what you are trying to say. they don't have to go to college. they can do anything they want with their time until they reach the required age. you made it sound like they had no choice.

raiderposting
05-07-2013, 07:07 PM
i'm not sure what you are trying to say. they don't have to go to college. they can do anything they want with their time until they reach the required age. you made it sound like they had no choice.

They have no choice to come to the nba anyway what's the point of having to wait to 19? Mentally they haven't even matured.

Nats_vcu-Okc35
05-07-2013, 07:08 PM
The NCAA is another branch of the NBA D League already - simply put if kids can DIE for their country at 17 in the military, they can play for the NBA - it does not by no means guarantee them a spot in the league but heck if a team is crazy enough to draft them why not?

Why should one limit the ability for some one to earn a living collecting a pay check, the simple fact is IF the current NBA CBA had it in the deal where they can cut players just like the NFL, then absolutely they would do it, this is more a player's association decision

This is not a developing physical nature of the human body like the NFL, the kids in high school can play ball in the league if they wanted to physically but how well is the question. You can't say hey there isn't proof - Kobe, KG and Howard ... heck Moses I think as well all out of High School

NBA should STOP pretending they are protecting the youth, they just want to protect their older players and profit margins and keep the kids in college to play ball, really a 1 year plan? Don't pretend a scholarship is worth that to a kid

You quoted me, but were you responding to what I wrote?

Jamiecballer
05-07-2013, 07:11 PM
They have no choice to come to the nba anyway what's the point of having to wait to 19? Mentally they haven't even matured.

any semi professional experience where they aren't pampered and treated like kings would be valuable in helping them to mature. having said that i'd like to point out that i'm not arguing for one year, i think it should be 3 years, or i guess 21 years of age. the kids wouldn't like it but i think they'd be better off long term.

raiderposting
05-07-2013, 07:35 PM
any semi professional experience where they aren't pampered and treated like kings would be valuable in helping them to mature. having said that i'd like to point out that i'm not arguing for one year, i think it should be 3 years, or i guess 21 years of age. the kids wouldn't like it but i think they'd be better off long term.

Again at 21 if they were dumb ****s they would still be the same especially if they hang out with the same crowd.

LongWayFromHome
05-08-2013, 12:57 AM
Buy:

The current rule has ruined college basketball. Dropping the age limit would massively reduce 1 and dones in college.

It is on the player if he made a bad decision. Our country is supposed to be based on freedom. People shouldn't need the government to tell them what is good for them or not and these kids don't need the league trying to "protect" them from bad decisions.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-08-2013, 01:21 AM
They changed it for a reason. Too many pups with no education or skills.

This.

NBA doesn't need uneducated bums who spend 5 years in the league underachieving because they never developed the skills. Then have them get into selling drugs because they weren't exposed to college education. I do think they need to increase it to 2 years at least.

iFYouSeekAmy
05-08-2013, 01:40 AM
I'm a college basketball fan, so of course I would like players to stay at least 2 or maybe 3 years. March Madness would get more interesting if so

c.c.
05-08-2013, 11:54 AM
These guys are trying to get paid! If they spent 4 years in college and got hurt they senior year, you guys are not gonna pay them all those millions they missed out on. The NBA, NCAA, or you guys don't care about these guys life and families. Its all entertainment with y'all and business with the NBA.

Triple_Ocho
05-08-2013, 12:18 PM
I think another option would be to transform the D-League into a legit minor league system... Right now it is guys who can't make an NBA roster cuz they just aren't good enough. If these kids want to skip college, they should go to the D-League for a year or 2 till they have some experience with an NBA type schedule. I would love to see the D-League become more like the MLB's farm system

Stinkyoutsider
05-08-2013, 12:20 PM
Youth system...

They should be allowed to enter the draft if they want. Expand the D-League by a few more teams or have each NBA team also have a reserve team where young players and the 13th thru 15th player on each team play on. If a team wants to draft an 18 year old then, he goes to the D-League team automatically and stays there for 2 years.

This would hurt the college game some but some of these players don't even want to go to college and would rather be a pro right out of high school.

For players who want an education, they can choose to go to college and play in the NCAA.

No harm done, just giving players more options to develop if their dream is the NBA and don't want to go to college.

FYL_McVeezy
05-08-2013, 12:21 PM
Yes they should.....

At the end of the day the top prospect all want to go to the NBA.....that's it...

why make them go school for 1 season when they are just gonna leave w/o a degree anyways? What is the point of going to college w/o obtaining a degree?

That's their choice to make to chase the millions w/o an education to fall back on....

Triple_Ocho
05-08-2013, 12:44 PM
The NCAA is another branch of the NBA D League already - simply put if kids can DIE for their country at 17 in the military, they can play for the NBA - it does not by no means guarantee them a spot in the league but heck if a team is crazy enough to draft them why not?

Why should one limit the ability for some one to earn a living collecting a pay check, the simple fact is IF the current NBA CBA had it in the deal where they can cut players just like the NFL, then absolutely they would do it, this is more a player's association decision

This is not a developing physical nature of the human body like the NFL, the kids in high school can play ball in the league if they wanted to physically but how well is the question. You can't say hey there isn't proof - Kobe, KG and Howard ... heck Moses I think as well all out of High School

NBA should STOP pretending they are protecting the youth, they just want to protect their older players and profit margins and keep the kids in college to play ball, really a 1 year plan? Don't pretend a scholarship is worth that to a kid

I understand your point but I have a differing opinion. Employers everywhere have the right to set minimum qualifications for employees. It doesnt matter what the type of employment may be either (Athletes, doctors, legal professionals, etc.)

I do think you are absolutely right about the NBA protecting it's players and trying to turn a profit. Thats what alll businesses are about, making money... The NBA wants to put the best quality products on the floor. The health of each NBA franchise is a reflection on the NBA front offices. They want every team to make money, not lose it on some kid straight outta high school who wasnt ready. For every Kobe, KG, Dwight, and Moses Malone, you will find Korleone Young, Jonathon Bender, Leon Smith, Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, Ousmane Cisse, James Lang, etc... I dont blame the NBA for not wanting their franchises to risk a financial loss on a kid who has no experience outside of a high school gym.

In my opinion, the NBA should add another year to their minimum requirements for joining the league.

rhd420
05-08-2013, 02:05 PM
They aren't really forced to go to college. They can go play somewhere else, or take a year off. I think the NBA only forces them to wait 1 year from graduating. (I could be off here). Regardless, I agree with your overall point.

I am just waiting for a High School kid to challenge this system in a court of law and win, basically what is the 1 year extra going to do for the player - growth, skills, etc? The funny part is some truly believe a scholarship is worth something to kids who want to turn pro, really a 1 year scholarship will develop them in maturity and knowledge - yeah right

Since the NBA already set the standard prior to the ruling allowing Malone, KG, Kobe, O'Neal .. the list is extensive, somebody must have paid some serious coin (NCAA) for the NBA do adapt this rule. Man, I would have loved to see the coverage of LeBron and Kobe if they were forced to go to college

JEbin
05-08-2013, 02:24 PM
I am just waiting for a High School kid to challenge this system in a court of law and win, basically what is the 1 year extra going to do for the player - growth, skills, etc? The funny part is some truly believe a scholarship is worth something to kids who want to turn pro, really a 1 year scholarship will develop them in maturity and knowledge - yeah right

Since the NBA already set the standard prior to the ruling allowing Malone, KG, Kobe, O'Neal .. the list is extensive, somebody must have paid some serious coin (NCAA) for the NBA do adapt this rule. Man, I would have loved to see the coverage of LeBron and Kobe if they were forced to go to college

The NBA is covered by an exemption from antitrust law. Basically, what this means is that the NBA Players Association and the NBA League Offices are allowed to come to an agreement that would otherwise violate some anti-trust law.

In this case, the NBAPA and the League have agreed, under the terms of their collective bargaining agreement, to "group boycott" players under 19 years of age (CBA Section VI(A)(2)). Since the NBAPA is a certified union, bargaining on behalf of its union members, a normally per se illegal activity (the group boycott) is allowed.

It unfortunately will not go to court (players who want to play out of HS like Brandon Jennings will just have to go play overseas). Nothing will change unless the NBAPA bargains for it in the next CBA.

TopsyTurvy
05-08-2013, 02:28 PM
The fundamental problem has nothing to do with the age of the player, it's their compensation and when they are entitled to it. The problem is there is a system in place to exploit premier talent and nothing done to prevent it beyond saying to a top-tier prospect, "go play overseas and don't sign an extended contract or you won't be coming back to the NBA anytime soon."

Collegiate athletics at the semi-professional (top) level are not even scholastic in nature - they are a business and have been for decades.

Kobe2324
05-08-2013, 02:41 PM
i understand why they do it, but i disagree, if your 18 years old which makes you an adult, and a team thinks your NBA ready that should be your choice to make that deicision, if it's a bad one it was your choice in the first place, if it's a good one that you added one year to your playing career and had one less year of struggling through life (for certain circumstances)

JEbin
05-08-2013, 02:47 PM
i understand why they do it, but i disagree, if your 18 years old which makes you an adult, and a team thinks your NBA ready that should be your choice to make that deicision, if it's a bad one it was your choice in the first place, if it's a good one that you added one year to your playing career and had one less year of struggling through life (for certain circumstances)

As a moral argument, I agree with this. I think NCAA football has exploited its athletes for far too long.

As far as the legality of this arrangement goes, there's nothing that can be done to challenge it unless the supreme court is ready to overturn a century of precedent on the matter.

2-ONE-5
05-08-2013, 02:50 PM
Yeah I'm sure players like Robert swift are enjoying all that money to fall back on. Oh wait....

i always use him as an example too. if he didnt have a good All-American game he would have went to college like he should have anyway.

macc
05-08-2013, 03:08 PM
At 18 you're old enough to go out and die for your country, I would think you would be old enough to play a "game" called basketball professionally. I think there is a bigger liability on the teams/owners/coaches who play these "kids" before they are ready. I don't see a problem with drafting a hs player. If they need more coaching then send them to the D league. As a professional/responsible organization you would "hope" they would realize this and treat their players accordingly.

Ultimately I don't think college is needed in life. Alot of times college is a waste of time. I think the one and done rule is stupid because ultimatelly what is the point? Someone tell me what the point of going to college for one year is. You're not getting a degree in one year. So explain what the reasoning behind the one and done is?

In saying this....to play devils advocate to myself. The NBA is a business. As owners they have the right to state the requirements to work there. If the requirements are one year of college then so be it. They have the right as business owners to set that standard. I may not agree with it, but who cares what I think. I'm not the one running the business.

rhd420
05-09-2013, 12:57 PM
The NBA is covered by an exemption from antitrust law. Basically, what this means is that the NBA Players Association and the NBA League Offices are allowed to come to an agreement that would otherwise violate some anti-trust law.

In this case, the NBAPA and the League have agreed, under the terms of their collective bargaining agreement, to "group boycott" players under 19 years of age (CBA Section VI(A)(2)). Since the NBAPA is a certified union, bargaining on behalf of its union members, a normally per se illegal activity (the group boycott) is allowed.

It unfortunately will not go to court (players who want to play out of HS like Brandon Jennings will just have to go play overseas). Nothing will change unless the NBAPA bargains for it in the next CBA.

And the NBAPA will never do that because it's protecting the current NBA players and well it's more self preservation for them. Not necessarily a lawyer but according to many, since there was a example set for years prior to the agreement (KG, Malone, Tmac, Kobe) a good lawyer can overturn and sue the NBA for the ruling

Since I do understand the union, it could be said the same unlawfully agreeing to terms by the league itself to agreeing to the deal and thus making it void.

By all means, I do think that there are MANY kids who truly need the maturity before entering ANY profession, college is not the only venue, the military is another and I'd be more willing as a employer to hire a person with no college experience out of the military than one who has limited college experience or in that case a degree that is useless in the field that I'm looking for.

JEbin
05-09-2013, 01:07 PM
And the NBAPA will never do that because it's protecting the current NBA players and well it's more self preservation for them. Not necessarily a lawyer but according to many, since there was a example set for years prior to the agreement (KG, Malone, Tmac, Kobe) a good lawyer can overturn and sue the NBA for the ruling

Since I do understand the union, it could be said the same unlawfully agreeing to terms by the league itself to agreeing to the deal and thus making it void.

By all means, I do think that there are MANY kids who truly need the maturity before entering ANY profession, college is not the only venue, the military is another and I'd be more willing as a employer to hire a person with no college experience out of the military than one who has limited college experience or in that case a degree that is useless in the field that I'm looking for.

Precedent doesn't matter when it comes to a CBA. Each subsequent agreement stands on its own, the terms of previous agreements do not legally matter. The fact that in the past the NBA allowed players to enter the draft out of high school is irrelevant.

Like many have mentioned, yourself included, the NBAPA is in a way protecting current NBA players by delaying the arrival of rookies until they are 19. This further justifies/legitimizes the union's agreement to the age limit (a CBA can only be overturned regarding antitrust violations if the agreement was not bargained for in good faith). Again, you have to realize that labor unions and management are exempt from antitrust laws in this bargaining process. That is why there was talk about decertifying the union during the last lockout. This would have made the NBA subject to antitrust laws.

Lastly, the age mandate isn't a college mandate. Players do not have to go to college on that year off, but it does help with their draft prospects.

I don't have strong feelings either way regarding the age limitation in the NBA, but it is a stone cold fact that such a limitation is 100% legal and cannot be challenged in the courts.

Shammyguy3
05-09-2013, 01:36 PM
Or they might flush out and have nothing to fall back on. I agree with VendettaRed07.

And how is even a bachelor's degree going to help them fall back on anything, exactly? I have countless friends that have graduated now, and can't find a job in their respective fields and will end up asking their acquaintances for jobs at the local grocery store and/or be a teller at CHASE Bank. It's ridiculous... NOT to mention, if they flush out their careers they will ALWAYS have the opportunity to return to school and then get that degree. Say they become paraplegic due to a horrendous injury playing their freshman year in college. They'll never play in the NBA... they missed out on MILLIONS of dollars. And now, what do they have to fall back on?

If you have that injury after already being drafted in the NBA, you're guaranteed that rookie contract and are set for a life time. After the injury, you collect the checks and can then go back and get a degree or do whatever you need to do. Your argument is a ****** one.


I think another option would be to transform the D-League into a legit minor league system... Right now it is guys who can't make an NBA roster cuz they just aren't good enough. If these kids want to skip college, they should go to the D-League for a year or 2 till they have some experience with an NBA type schedule. I would love to see the D-League become more like the MLB's farm system

I agree with this. I feel that players coming out of high school SHOULD have the opportunity to be drafted, immediately. They should also have the opportunity to go to college any amount of years they want to and then come out if they feel they can't improve their stock position and get more guaranteed money (Mitch McGary is a good example here, not so sure why he returned because financially it doesn't make sense).

But, transforming the D-league into a minor league system will be difficult. It will directly go against the NCAA... which i'm okay with. It would just be difficult. Perhaps something like this:

Any player drafted immediately after high school is sent to that team's developmental league for a year BUT gets paid their rookie contract. After that season, they then make the NBA roster. Think of it as a freshman year in college without the player getting exploited and not risking losing out on millions of dollars.

2-ONE-5
05-09-2013, 03:25 PM
And how is even a bachelor's degree going to help them fall back on anything, exactly? I have countless friends that have graduated now, and can't find a job in their respective fields and will end up asking their acquaintances for jobs at the local grocery store and/or be a teller at CHASE Bank. It's ridiculous... NOT to mention, if they flush out their careers they will ALWAYS have the opportunity to return to school and then get that degree. Say they become paraplegic due to a horrendous injury playing their freshman year in college. They'll never play in the NBA... they missed out on MILLIONS of dollars. And now, what do they have to fall back on?

If you have that injury after already being drafted in the NBA, you're guaranteed that rookie contract and are set for a life time. After the injury, you collect the checks and can then go back and get a degree or do whatever you need to do. Your argument is a ****** one.



I agree with this. I feel that players coming out of high school SHOULD have the opportunity to be drafted, immediately. They should also have the opportunity to go to college any amount of years they want to and then come out if they feel they can't improve their stock position and get more guaranteed money (Mitch McGary is a good example here, not so sure why he returned because financially it doesn't make sense).
But, transforming the D-league into a minor league system will be difficult. It will directly go against the NCAA... which i'm okay with. It would just be difficult. Perhaps something like this:

Any player drafted immediately after high school is sent to that team's developmental league for a year BUT gets paid their rookie contract. After that season, they then make the NBA roster. Think of it as a freshman year in college without the player getting exploited and not risking losing out on millions of dollars.

for starters McGary is far frfom being good enough to play in the NBA right now, he couldnt even crack the starrting lineup most the year on a team with no good bigs. However I understand your point but my counter has always been that Id rather see a guy like McGary go back to school and improve his game for the long term so he is good enough to get a 2nd contract.

rhd420
05-10-2013, 12:12 PM
Precedent doesn't matter when it comes to a CBA. Each subsequent agreement stands on its own, the terms of previous agreements do not legally matter. The fact that in the past the NBA allowed players to enter the draft out of high school is irrelevant.

Like many have mentioned, yourself included, the NBAPA is in a way protecting current NBA players by delaying the arrival of rookies until they are 19. This further justifies/legitimizes the union's agreement to the age limit (a CBA can only be overturned regarding antitrust violations if the agreement was not bargained for in good faith). Again, you have to realize that labor unions and management are exempt from antitrust laws in this bargaining process. That is why there was talk about decertifying the union during the last lockout. This would have made the NBA subject to antitrust laws.

Lastly, the age mandate isn't a college mandate. Players do not have to go to college on that year off, but it does help with their draft prospects.

I don't have strong feelings either way regarding the age limitation in the NBA, but it is a stone cold fact that such a limitation is 100% legal and cannot be challenged in the courts.

I get "why" but legalities should also include if it was a detriment to the business and if there were prior examples of "success" to the league. NOW that being said, much like Maurice Clarrett and Mike Williams in 2004 when he won - still bombed in the NFL, but not suing the players association but in this care with Clarrett suing the league


NEW YORK -- A federal judge opened the door for Ohio State sensation Maurice Clarett and teenage football stars to turn pro, declaring Thursday that an NFL rule barring their eligibility violates antitrust law and "must be sacked."

U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin said legal issues are so clearly in Clarett's favor a trial is unnecessary. The NFL said it will appeal, and it will probably try to block the ruling before the April draft.

Clarett sued the league last year to challenge its 1990 rule that a player must be out of high school three years to enter the draft.

"I was pleased that the rule was brought down," Clarett said at a news conference. "It gives kids an opportunity to choose."

Clarett's lawyer, Alan Milstein, called it a "total victory." He said the star running back was "thrilled" and would speak at a news conference in New York later Thursday.

I understand there are ways to get around it but to say legalities and 100% doesn't mean it can't be overturned successfully because in the NBA, there are still players right out of HS and in the sports legality world, it's been challenged and overturned. NOW if it was a John Elway out of HS and into the pros and being successful it might hold more validity.

da ThRONe
05-10-2013, 12:33 PM
Let's make them stay 7years in school.

This is all nonsense. College is overrated and there's no tangible proof that even suggest that college positively impact players.

tkshy
05-10-2013, 12:39 PM
They should have to graduate from college. They should have to take financial planning. There is a reason 70% end up broke. Instead of paying them in college maybe put money into a retirement fund or something. Its crazy how we create millionaires with no education and then wonder why they act a fool. Yes there are exceptions, so I could see stealing an idea from a previous post about one HS exception per year. Have it if he is taken in the top 3 otherwise off to learn you go. We need to focus teaching these kids fundamentals of basketball on the court and the fundamentals of life of the court.

We sometimes confuse the game of basketball with the business of basketball. These young players go from HS student to millionaire athletes. Lets give them a chance to succeed at life, not just use them while they can play and just forget them.

LakersIn5
05-10-2013, 12:56 PM
Or they might flush out and have nothing to fall back on. I agree with VendettaRed07.

even players that go to college can have nothing to fall back on. if its their destiny then its their destiny.

JEbin
05-10-2013, 01:13 PM
I get "why" but legalities should also include if it was a detriment to the business and if there were prior examples of "success" to the league. NOW that being said, much like Maurice Clarrett and Mike Williams in 2004 when he won - still bombed in the NFL, but not suing the players association but in this care with Clarrett suing the league



I understand there are ways to get around it but to say legalities and 100% doesn't mean it can't be overturned successfully because in the NBA, there are still players right out of HS and in the sports legality world, it's been challenged and overturned. NOW if it was a John Elway out of HS and into the pros and being successful it might hold more validity.

You know that Clarrett and Williams actually lost that case, right? The court of appeals for the 2nd Circuit reversed and the Supreme Court concurred with the court of appeals and denied certiorari. The opinion for the 2nd circuit was actually written by Judge Sotomayor, who is now a Supreme Court justice.

The NBA's CBA won't be successfully challenged unless the Supreme Court is willing to overturn 100+ years of precedent going back to coal miners/construction workers unions, etc.

Here is the Clarrett decision if you'd like to read it: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6869763862944787702&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

An important quote: "Once a majority of employees vote to unionize and elect a representative, individual employees no longer possess the right to negotiate with the employer. The union representative is charged with the responsibility of seeking the best overall deal for employees, which often means that some employees or prospective employees may fare worse than they would in a competitive market free from restraints." (emphasis is mine)

It'll clarify things for you if you read it through.

Edit: I'm not sure what you mean by "it might be challenged and overturned". The only way to challenge this would be to show that the union representative bargained in bad faith, and this is an incredibly difficult thing to prove. In Twombley v. Bell Atlantic, the court set the standard for such a finding. "A smoking gun", the court said, is not good enough. Even if everything points towards it being a bad faith negotiation, the plaintiff has to find actual documentation of such actions. In other words, even if everything points to corruption, there would have to be physical proof (recordings of bad faith negotiations, written communications, etc.).

da ThRONe
05-10-2013, 01:31 PM
Guys going broke shouldn't even be a talking matter. Plenty of 3 and 4 year athletes go broke. It's not the league responsibility to handle players finances.

faridk89
05-10-2013, 01:36 PM
Not sure why these guys have to go to school to be able to play in the NBA? Will they be better players coming into the NBA if they play college ball, yes.

But the point still stands, what kind of league makes guys go to college for a year before being able to get drafted?

rhd420
05-10-2013, 01:42 PM
1. The labor policy favoring collective bargaining may potentially be given pre-eminence over the antitrust laws where the restraint on trade primarily affects only the parties to the collective bargaining relationship.

2. Federal labor policy is implicated sufficiently to prevail only where the agreement sought to be exempted concerns a mandatory subject of collective bargaining.

3. The policy favoring collective bargaining is furthered to the degree necessary to override the antitrust laws only where the agreement sought to be exempted is the product of bona fide arm's-length bargaining.


The NBA's CBA won't be successfully challenged unless the Supreme Court is willing to overturn 100+ years of precedent going back to coal miners/construction workers unions, etc.

Given the economic situation currently, there can be a legal case denying ones opportunity to be eligible to work and if that was the case, 100+ years ago as well certain laws have changed as well and if that was the case one can also argue the change of the "athlete". While I understand players will be "grand fathered", if your a kid who want to go into the league and have parents who have the means to assemble a legal team - dollars if not just exposure to the rule would be questioned as well as the validity of the CBA and the unions in general

Never a big "Union" guy since my background is more so small business so any lawsuit or failures by Unions ie Walmart puts a little smile on my face. If this is about Capitalism and guys like Kobe and LeBron are successful now, why fundamentally should any court of law deny any person who meets a qualification for a job over legal working age? Just a thought

JEbin
05-10-2013, 01:52 PM
1. The labor policy favoring collective bargaining may potentially be given pre-eminence over the antitrust laws where the restraint on trade primarily affects only the parties to the collective bargaining relationship.

2. Federal labor policy is implicated sufficiently to prevail only where the agreement sought to be exempted concerns a mandatory subject of collective bargaining.

3. The policy favoring collective bargaining is furthered to the degree necessary to override the antitrust laws only where the agreement sought to be exempted is the product of bona fide arm's-length bargaining.


The NBA's CBA won't be successfully challenged unless the Supreme Court is willing to overturn 100+ years of precedent going back to coal miners/construction workers unions, etc.

Given the economic situation currently, there can be a legal case denying ones opportunity to be eligible to work and if that was the case, 100+ years ago as well certain laws have changed as well and if that was the case one can also argue the change of the "athlete". While I understand players will be "grand fathered", if your a kid who want to go into the league and have parents who have the means to assemble a legal team - dollars if not just exposure to the rule would be questioned as well as the validity of the CBA and the unions in general

Never a big "Union" guy since my background is more so small business so any lawsuit or failures by Unions ie Walmart puts a little smile on my face. If this is about Capitalism and guys like Kobe and LeBron are successful now, why fundamentally should any court of law deny any person who meets a qualification for a job over legal working age? Just a thought

1. Prospective employees are parties to the collective bargaining relationship.

2. All it takes is the parties agreeing to put a term in the CBA to make it a "mandatory subject of collective bargaining".

3. See my point regarding Twombley v. Bell Atlantic. Although the law requires a good-faith, arm's length negotiation, it's impossible to prove otherwise based merely upon adverse results. It requires concrete evidence of corruption.

Point 3 is probably the only challenge I could see being successful, but it would require some real stupidity on the part of the NBAPA or the League to leave any concrete evidence of bad-faith negotiations. I mentioned this above, in my other post as well, before you brought it up.

I recognize the merit of your arguments, but it would require decertification of the players union and the players would have to operate as independent contractors (which is never going to happen).

JEbin
05-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Not sure why these guys have to go to school to be able to play in the NBA? Will they be better players coming into the NBA if they play college ball, yes.

But the point still stands, what kind of league makes guys go to college for a year before being able to get drafted?

They don't have to go to college for that year (although most do). It's an age restriction (players must be 19 years old), not a college mandate.

NYCkid12
05-10-2013, 02:14 PM
Free Choice.

Wanna leave? Leave. Go to college? Go to college. Leave after 1 year? Then leave.

We are in no position to tell other people what is good for them, let them make their own decisions about their own lives.

Let me ask you this, if you graduated from high school...would you be able to become a teacher or professor? would the majority of financial firms hire you??

The answer is no because you don't meet the requirements to apply for the job...I take the same stance with the NBA...they make rules that they think makes there league the best and most competitive and ultimately marketable

So to answer your question, we are in no position to tell them what to do...They are free to do what they want...but that doesn't mean they can join the league whenever they want....just like with every other job there are rules/requirements

JEbin
05-10-2013, 03:19 PM
Let me ask you this, if you graduated from high school...would you be able to become a teacher or professor? would the majority of financial firms hire you??

The answer is no because you don't meet the requirements to apply for the job...I take the same stance with the NBA...they make rules that they think makes there league the best and most competitive and ultimately marketable

So to answer your question, we are in no position to tell them what to do...They are free to do what they want...but that doesn't mean they can join the league whenever they want....just like with every other job there are rules/requirements

Yea, though we live in a nanny state, it shouldn't go this far. We all know people who blow their wages foolishly (albeit, probably not millions of dollars).

The question of whether the league CAN do this has been answered above (by me :) ).

The question remaining is SHOULD the league do this? Let's not kid ourselves into believing the league has the kids' best interests in mind. They don't. The NBAPA is protecting the older players and the Owners are looking after their pocketbooks. One year of college doesn't help these kids with understanding finances.

If you're all worried about these players bowling their money, the agents and managers are the ones who should be scrutinized.

cubfan23
05-10-2013, 03:25 PM
They should have at least 2 to 3 years in college and some sort of education. That way if they don't make it, at least they have something to fall back on.

This...there are too many greedy *** ***** kids...i actually love seeing kids who thought they were ready straight from high school come to the NBA and see them fail miserably. Serves them right. I'd say 2 yrs at least but I don't think it'll ever happen.

JEbin
05-10-2013, 04:40 PM
This...there are too many greedy *** ***** kids...i actually love seeing kids who thought they were ready straight from high school come to the NBA and see them fail miserably. Serves them right. I'd say 2 yrs at least but I don't think it'll ever happen.

Just because they're blowing more money than the average fool shouldn't factor into the discussion. How many kids skip out on higher education to work for minimum wage and blow it on stupid things? Unless you're ready to make secondary education mandatory for the general population, I just don't understand the reasoning.

Again, more attention needs to be paid to the characters who influence these "kids" while they're still in High School.

rhd420
05-13-2013, 02:42 PM
They should have at least 2 to 3 years in college and some sort of education. That way if they don't make it, at least they have something to fall back on.

You want to tell the thousands of college graduates who completed at least a 2 year degree and have no job where to fall back to? Just talked to a great gal at Hooters who got her 4 year degree at USC in Pre-Med.

Backstabber
05-13-2013, 07:28 PM
Why shouldn't the NBA pay for the development of their players? Why should the development be paid for by the players that the NBA wish to recruit? Why force the players into unpaid labor? MLB pays for the development of their players, and you don't have to go to college to play soccer, tennis or golf.

I think the real reason is the NCAA wants a free work force (they have no real intent on educating players), and the NBA want free development of players.

I really hope there is a real push for blue chip recruits to go over seas and get paid, that would add a ton of risk for the NCAA and the NBA.

Backstabber
05-13-2013, 07:33 PM
Let me ask you this, if you graduated from high school...would you be able to become a teacher or professor? would the majority of financial firms hire you??

The answer is no because you don't meet the requirements to apply for the job...I take the same stance with the NBA...they make rules that they think makes there league the best and most competitive and ultimately marketable

So to answer your question, we are in no position to tell them what to do...They are free to do what they want...but that doesn't mean they can join the league whenever they want....just like with every other job there are rules/requirements

LOL, you act like you need a degree in entomology to play basketball. The reason the league set the entry rule at 19 is so they don't have to pay for the development of their players. They want to reduce risk. You're right though as long as the NBA is the premere league it will stay that way, but there are leagues around the world that have different rules. What the NBA needs is competition.