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View Full Version : ESPN: Blake Griffin Can't Wait To Be Great



Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:05 PM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9239322/los-angeles-clippers-forward-blake-griffin-thinks-night-day-how-become-truly-great

For the few remaining people that actually like or respect Griffin pretty epic read and worth a read, Clippers fan or not. Some bulletin points.

- Huge Kobe fan, admires his work ethic.

- Wants to be great immediately just like the fans want and has to remind himself that it takes time.

- Is bummed at how quickly people turned on him and talks about some of the hateful messages he receives from fans.


Just a well written piece. ESPN does a few of these a year on star players that are surprisingly good. Mostly great quotes but one in particular troubled me. He said he wants to be MORE of a facilitator than he is and sometimes him and CP3 debate about it. He needs to understand we don't need a second PG, especially with a passer as great as CP3. We need a 20/10 guy who plays good defense. I can't help but feel we badly need a top tier coach who specializes with big men to get him working on the right things.

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:06 PM
He's definitely not heading in the right direction.

Jarvo
05-03-2013, 04:09 PM
Been saying it Blake is mad overrated just the truth.

Monta is beast
05-03-2013, 04:09 PM
Honestly I think he is what he is. As bad as Clippers fans want to think he's the next great player, he is what he is.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:11 PM
Been saying it Blake is mad overrated just the truth.

Most legit analysts of basketball agree he's become UNDERRATED if anything. Numbers have declined due to WAY less minutes, less shots, less touches, less usage. He's become underrated because people act like he's not even a top 20 player anymore because his raw numbers are down. His PER 36 numbers are 21/10/4/1.5 on great efficiency and improved defense, so not sure how you can be "overrated". Still raw and nowhere near his prime is more like it.

MTL_123
05-03-2013, 04:13 PM
hes gonna have to wait a long time. Hes sooooo overrated

He115ing
05-03-2013, 04:16 PM
And everyone else is waiting for him to stop flopping so much.

blahblahyoutoo
05-03-2013, 04:19 PM
Been saying it Blake is mad overrated just the truth.

yup, he's the 2010's version of shawn kemp.

and ppl turned on him because of his scowl and his flopping.

Minimal
05-03-2013, 04:20 PM
Can't wait to be great?
Great players have full package: great skills and athletism.
Griffin has only 1 part of that package and yet to develop the other one. (same goes for Dwight)
Griffin has to mature and start improving his skills if he wants to become great.
Hate this guy to say the truth.

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:22 PM
The guy had 2 rebounds in 30+ minutes in a crucial playoff loss.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:23 PM
Can't wait to be great?
Great players have full package: great skills and athletism.
Griffin has only 1 part of that package and yet to develop the other one. (same goes for Dwight)
Griffin has to mature and start improving his skills if he wants to become great.
Hate this guy to say the truth.

Griffin's "skillset" is actually amazing and rare. The issue is more his fundamentals and mental toughness. How does a PF average about 4 assists a game in 32 minutes a game with no skills? Dribble the ball the length of the court, cross two people over and finish the fastbreak against multiple defenders with no skills? Skills aren't his problem.

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:26 PM
The guy had 2 rebounds in 30+ minutes in a crucial playoff loss.
.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:26 PM
He's definitely not heading in the right direction.

Based on wat?

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:27 PM
based on his declining production?

Per 36 numbers are completely useless, he's either declining, or his coaches don't trust him, or he's injury prone.

Take your pick.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:30 PM
LOL at the extremes people are going to. You guys do know that being overrated and underrated isn't a critique, you can be overrated and still be the best player in the game.

Phenomenonsense
05-03-2013, 04:30 PM
Having that determination might make him great. Can he consistently hit that post move step back fade-away? Can he improve his defensive timing? Many players can be great, and it takes more than just wanting it as bad as players like Kobe. Are you intelligent enough to play the heady game without being too intelligent, to the point that you overthink everything and think yourself out of your game? Does a shot one day just click in your body and make sense? He needs luck too.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:30 PM
based on his declining production?

I'll let Chronz deal with you because if you believe his game has declined you're an idiot who just checks a boxscore quite frankly. Blake's minutes for example were down a ridiculous 6 per game. Not sure if you understand how many that is in an NBA game. As I said.. his PER 36 numbers were

21 ppg
10 rpg
4 apg
1.5 spg
1 bpg

Great efficiency, improved defense, PER of 22+, WS/48 right there in the top 10. That's only adjusted to 36 minutes too. If he played an even more ideal 38 minutes a game or so the numbers would be better.

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:31 PM
based on his declining production?

Per 36 numbers are completely useless, he's either declining, or his coaches don't trust him, or he's injury prone.

Take your pick.

go ahead and let chronz deal with me.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:32 PM
based on his declining production?

Per 36 numbers are completely useless, he's either declining, or his coaches don't trust him, or he's injury prone.

Take your pick.
I dont trust your ability to interpret stats.

Saying per minute/per possession stats are useless is a testament to your inability to do so. Ill trust ACTUAL statisticians when it comes to STATS that you very much. Good try tho

LMFAO coaches dont trust him...... what a joke of an argument.

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:32 PM
so, basically you have nothing to say?

I didn't say that it had to be about the coaches, I said take your pick. For whatever reason, he's not the guy.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:32 PM
LOL at the extremes people are going to. You guys do know that being overrated and underrated isn't a critique, you can be overrated and still be the best player in the game.

Although in Blake's specific case people confuse "overhyped" and "overrated". People are mad because Blake is always in the media but that doesn't mean his actual game is overrated.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:33 PM
go ahead and let chronz deal with me.
He did a good enough job himself, any thoughts on his stats?

sep11ie
05-03-2013, 04:34 PM
Blake is the new Monta...

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:35 PM
yeah, i already shared it with you. Per 36 numbers are useless, his actual numbers have gone down every year. He's a former #1 overall pick, if injuries aren't to blame, then he's not being trusted. Minutes don't just magically go away 3 years into a young and bright career.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:35 PM
so, basically you have nothing to say?

I didn't say that it had to be about the coaches, I said take your pick. For whatever reason, he's not the guy.

Look as Chronz can attest to, I'm also pretty poor with stats and even I understand the value of minute adjusted stats. It's idiotic to look at a star like Blake who's playing very little minutes compared to other all stars... and take his raw numbers in without context. Blake's shooting less, playing way less, getting less touches etc.. no **** his numbers will be down. The only category he's actually declined in, even per minute is rebounding but I feel that's in large part to his increased effort on the defensive end and in the playmaking department.

It's harder to crash the boards when you're shooting jumpers more, passing from the high post to wide open 3's (which usually bounce long) and when you're using that energy for D. Only player in the game I think that can focus his energy in ALL facets without a drop off is Lebron who's probably got the most insane stamina of any athlete ever.

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:36 PM
I'm not saying he's over-rated, or under-rated... I said he's heading in the wrong direction if he wants to be a star.

Do you disagree? his per 36 numbers aren't going to win him any MVP trophies.

Sorry for starting an argument, i'm not trying to troll, just don't really see the point in arguing actual stats with potential stats.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:36 PM
so, basically you have nothing to say?
If thats what you got out of it, why should I trust you over actual statisticians? You're the one going against the grain here. Per possession/per minute metrics are what ACTUAL statisticians use as a barometer to put players on an equal playing field.


I didn't say that it had to be about the coaches, I said take your pick. For whatever reason, he's not the guy.

That you included it is what was laughable, I dont have to pick from your limited examples. I KNOW the real reason. Which is that we are deeper than before and he didn't have to log so many minutes.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:37 PM
Blake is the new Monta...

How so?

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:38 PM
If thats what you got out of it, why should I trust you over actual statisticians? You're the one going against the grain here. Per possession/per minute metrics are what ACTUAL statisticians use as a barometer to put players on an equal playing field.


That you included it is what was laughable, I dont have to pick from your limited examples. I KNOW the real reason. Which is that we are deeper than before and he didn't have to log so many minutes.

Then he IS NOT heading in the right direction, is he?

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:40 PM
I'm not saying he's over-rated, or under-rated... I said he's heading in the wrong direction if he wants to be a star.

Do you disagree? his per 36 numbers aren't going to win him any MVP trophies.

Sorry for starting an argument, i'm not trying to troll, just don't really see the point in arguing actual stats with potential stats.

Blake's already a star. Even most of his detractors here admit he's a legit all star, maybe borderline superstar. He's already in the 10-15 range in terms of top players in the game. He's a 3 time all star in 3 years and is likely to be on an All NBA team for the 2nd year in a row.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:40 PM
Sorry for starting an argument, i'm not trying to troll, just don't really see the point in arguing actual stats with potential stats.
They are both actual stats. You would have to be a moron to think Blake as a rookie is better than Blake now on the pretense of his basic (aka old school) stats.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:41 PM
Then he IS NOT heading in the right direction, is he?
Depends on who you're asking, if you ask the laymen they would prolly say no, if you ask ACTUAL statisticians that work in the business, they would tell you he is. So why should I side with the amateurs ?

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:43 PM
ya know, I'm wrong.

Sorry.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:43 PM
His statistical production is far more conducive to winning, so why would that be heading the wrong way?

Sactown
05-03-2013, 04:43 PM
Then he IS NOT heading in the right direction, is he?

I agree with you, his minutes have gone down, probably due to the fact that his team has added talent each season, but his minutes are down to 32 a game, which isn't a lot for your supposed star studded player. Also his advanced numbers have gone up, but it's also easier to be more effective when you play less minutes, so how much has he improved?

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:46 PM
His statistical production is far more conducive to winning, so why would that be heading the wrong way?

This is 100 percent right and I've struggled myself to grasp this concept. I too get selfish sometimes and miss the big stat lines where he would drop 25/10 consistently as a rookie but that hasn't proven conducive to winning, especially with the roster we have in place. When CP3 was out for 3 straight weeks or w/e... Blake was putting up HUGE Lebron like numbers for a 7 or 8 game stretch yet we only won like 3 of those games. When Blake's dominating like that it means other guys aren't carrying any of the load 9 times out of 10.

Sactown
05-03-2013, 04:47 PM
His statistical production is far more conducive to winning, so why would that be heading the wrong way?

He hasn't statistically gotten much better over his 3 seasons

His per has gone up by .5, and his shooting #'s going up could be credited to him having CP3 and taking less shots per game.

His rebounding is down since his rookie season

His assists # are up, but so are his turnover%...

Nothing over the past 3 years is a great indicator of real growth.. that's all he's saying.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:49 PM
Also his advanced numbers have gone up, but it's also easier to be more effective when you play less minutes, so how much has he improved?
Thats actually false, all the studies Ive seen have shown very little correlation, if anything, playing more (so long as its not to an absurd degree) help your production.

His improvements have mostly come from his floor game, defensive ability and freethrow and outlet shooting.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:50 PM
I agree with you, his minutes have gone down, probably due to the fact that his team has added talent each season, but his minutes are down to 32 a game, which isn't a lot for your supposed star studded player. Also his advanced numbers have gone up, but it's also easier to be more effective when you play less minutes, so how much has he improved?

I'm not speaking for everybody but personally I can tell you what I've observed improvement wise.

1. His jumper is noticeably better. Still shaky but some games he's just on fire with it and will hit 3-4 in a row which we never saw from rookie Griffin really.

2. Although in the playoffs it's been atrocious his defense was MUCH better this year and there were stretches in the season where surprisingly he was our most solid defender. Not necessarily "best" but most solid in the sense that he was always solid or above average, never terrible, never elite really.

3. His free throw shooting was about 70 percent the second half of the season and finished at 67 percent after being a horrendous 52 percent last year or w/e.

4. His post game didn't improve a lot really but it improved a tad bit.


Thing is people forget Blake went from Olympics training camp to torn Meniscus holding him out up until training camp. He lost 6 weeks of time which just so happened to be when he would have been soaking up the Olympics experience AND had a couple weeks to work out by himself and with Hakeem which he scheduled. He had to cancel with Hakeem due to knee injury.

Sactown
05-03-2013, 04:51 PM
Thats actually false, all the studies Ive seen have shown very little correlation, if anything, playing more (so long as its not to an absurd degree) help your production.

His improvements have mostly come from his floor game, defensive ability and freethrow and outlet shooting.

Are you disagreeing that have the best play making PG in the league on your team wouldn't help your TS%? And even if his improved production isn't a product of his minutes, he still hasn't improved leaps and bounds like you would like to see...

DumDum
05-03-2013, 04:53 PM
all he does is dunk ....... no I'm not guy. He's young give him some time if he plays half as long as Timmy does he be real good by then

Sactown
05-03-2013, 04:54 PM
I'm not speaking for everybody but personally I can tell you what I've observed improvement wise.

1. His jumper is noticeably better. Still shaky but some games he's just on fire with it and will hit 3-4 in a row which we never saw from rookie Griffin really.

2. Although in the playoffs it's been atrocious his defense was MUCH better this year and there were stretches in the season where surprisingly he was our most solid defender. Not necessarily "best" but most solid in the sense that he was always solid or above average, never terrible, never elite really.

3. His free throw shooting was about 70 percent the second half of the season and finished at 67 percent after being a horrendous 52 percent last year or w/e.

4. His post game didn't improve a lot really but it improved a tad bit.


Thing is people forget Blake went from Olympics training camp to torn Meniscus holding him out up until training camp. He lost 6 weeks of time which just so happened to be when he would have been soaking up the Olympics experience AND had a couple weeks to work out by himself and with Hakeem which he scheduled. He had to cancel with Hakeem due to knee injury.

The problem is, he's been in the league for 4 seasons, and has played 3.

You generally want to see great improvement during a players 3rd season, Blake Griffon simply isn't on pace to be the super-star player we all hoped for.. He was compared to Tim Duncan when entering the league, nothing so far has shown that he'd live up to the type of potential.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:54 PM
Are you disagreeing that have the best play making PG in the league on your team wouldn't help your TS%? And even if his improved production isn't a product of his minutes, he still hasn't improved leaps and bounds like you would like to see...

Who said he improved leaps and bounds? Do you know what 3 of Blake's summers have entailed?

Broken knee cap, no workout at all. Lockout, no training camp. Then torn Meniscus. He hasn't quite frankly had much time to work on his game due to the terrible timing of his injuries seemingly every summer. Nobody said he improved leaps and bounds. I personally give players around 4-5 seasons before labeling them a full on disappointment or bust. For a raw, athlete based PF like Blake.. I don't think we can expect him to make a huge leap by year 3. Especially when we's had an average of 8 new players on his team in 3 straight seasons. He's had to endure TONS of rapid changes in his time here. Zero stability on the roster.

When we lock up CP3 and add more long term pieces he can settle in.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:57 PM
The problem is, he's been in the league for 4 seasons, and has played 3.

You generally want to see great improvement during a players 3rd season, Blake Griffon simply isn't on pace to be the super-star player we all hoped for.. He was compared to Tim Duncan when entering the league, nothing so far has shown that he'd live up to the type of potential.

Comparing his rookie year to Duncan does not mean in general he's been compared to him. Duncan is the GOAT PF and a top 10 player all time so it's idiotic to use him as the measuring stick. Even myself, the biggest Blake homer of all time said he has a CHANCE to be a top 5 PF all time if he works hard and stays healthy because his skillset/work ethic is that great. I would never say he will be THE GOAT PF and a top 10 player all time though.

Besides why compare the most NBA ready player of all time to a far more raw PF with a different game?

Sactown
05-03-2013, 04:57 PM
Who said he improved leaps and bounds? Do you know what 3 of Blake's summers have entailed?

Broken knee cap, no workout at all. Lockout, no training camp. Then torn Meniscus. He hasn't quite frankly had much time to work on his game due to the terrible timing of his injuries seemingly every summer. Nobody said he improved leaps and bounds. I personally give players around 4-5 seasons before labeling them a full on disappointment or bust. For a raw, athlete based PF like Blake.. I don't think we can expect him to make a huge leap by year 3. Especially when we's had an average of 8 new players on his team in 3 straight seasons. He's had to endure TONS of rapid changes in his time here. Zero stability on the roster.

When we lock up CP3 and add more long term pieces he can settle in.
The problem is, you can't keep giving the excuse of injuries... honestly, do you see Blake Griffen as the centerpiece of a title team? I don't see him as the 1st option of a multiple time winning franchise.. I see him as a great 2nd piece.. When he was drafted he was expected to be the next Duncan

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 04:57 PM
No surprise Blake is a big Kobe fan and admires his work ethic. He himself is one of the hardest workers in the league today. He could average 30 and 15 with elite D and people will still hate on him arguing with the ignoramuses who hate on him really don't make sense at all.

Sactown
05-03-2013, 04:58 PM
Comparing his rookie year to Duncan does not mean in general he's been compared to him. Duncan is the GOAT PF and a top 10 player all time so it's idiotic to use him as the measuring stick. Even myself, the biggest Blake homer of all time said he has a CHANCE to be a top 5 PF all time if he works hard and stays healthy because his skillset/work ethic is that great. I would never say he will be THE GOAT PF and a top 10 player all time though.

Besides why compare the most NBA ready player of all time to a far more raw PF with a different game?

I bring up Tim Duncan because that's the name I often heard. But right now, I don't see Griffon on pace to beat out Malone, Barkley, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, C-Webb..

He was drafted to be the next great PF, and that's not what we're seeing.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 04:59 PM
The problem is, you can't keep giving the excuse of injuries... honestly, do you see Blake Griffen as the centerpiece of a title team? I don't see him as the 1st option of a multiple time winning franchise.. I see him as a great 2nd piece.. When he was drafted he was expected to be the next Duncan

I do think eventually Blake will be an undisputed 1st option, superstar on the Clippers who should win 1 title at least with Blake+CP3 if they build right. CP3 may always be our most important player but Blake can be the 1st option on a title contender in the future in his prime, yes. Multiple time winner is the tricky part because Lebron is still in his prime and much like Jordan will likely deny many guys like Griffin the chance at a ring.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 04:59 PM
He hasn't statistically gotten much better over his 3 seasons
Agreed, he has yet to take a monster leap. Thats not the same as saying hes going BACKWARDS. Which is what the laymen would wish to believe.


His per has gone up by .5, and his shooting #'s going up could be credited to him having CP3 and taking less shots per game.

PER going up at all despite his usage going down is rare accomplishment considering its a usage driven stat, and his rebounding has declined because hes a better positional defender (something PER ignores altogether), so I'll gladly take the slight dropoff in individual rebounding for enhanced team results.
And CP3 actually suppresses his stats so you're not doing yourself any favors there. The usage decrease should help a players efficiency, but that hes doing it by taking more outside shots to accommodate his teammates is still impressive.


His rebounding is down since his rookie season
I would love for his rebounding to increase, but not at the expense of improved team defensive principles. As a rook he rarely helped off his man, now hes blitzing ball handlers and we are using his athleticism in our defensive system alot more. The results have been well worth the payoff.


His assists # are up, but so are his turnover%...
You say that as if its not showing a growth in his floor game. Per36 he averaged the same amount of turnovers his rookie year as he does now, only hes added more assists. Overall all the passing efficiency metrics say its worth the payoff.


Nothing over the past 3 years is a great indicator of real growth.. that's all he's saying.
LOL no he said quite the opposite, hes made some gradual growth with regards to his own metrics, tremendous growth with regards to his defense and intangibles. Meaning, hes become more of a winner while improving his own metrics. Thats FAR from going in the "wrong direction". Dont speak for him when his words are self evident.

sneak
05-03-2013, 05:00 PM
Who said he improved leaps and bounds? Do you know what 3 of Blake's summers have entailed?

Broken knee cap, no workout at all. Lockout, no training camp. Then torn Meniscus. He hasn't quite frankly had much time to work on his game due to the terrible timing of his injuries seemingly every summer. Nobody said he improved leaps and bounds. I personally give players around 4-5 seasons before labeling them a full on disappointment or bust. For a raw, athlete based PF like Blake.. I don't think we can expect him to make a huge leap by year 3. Especially when we's had an average of 8 new players on his team in 3 straight seasons. He's had to endure TONS of rapid changes in his time here. Zero stability on the roster.

When we lock up CP3 and add more long term pieces he can settle in.

Besides the superstar calls helping him, we all have to wait to see if his body can hold up. His little out side elbow pop is going down. If he can add more to his game, not lose cp3, and have his body hold up, he'll have a chance.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 05:01 PM
I bring up Tim Duncan because that's the name I often heard. But right now, I don't see Griffon on pace to beat out Malone, Barkley, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, C-Webb..

He was drafted to be the next great PF, and that's not what we're seeing.

Who was the last PF to come into the league and average 20/10 their first 3 years, make all star team 3 straight years? Tim Duncan. Blake's career IS off to an all time great start in terms of PF's. Beating those guys out is far from guaranteed... but he's got the talent and work ethic to at least have a shot at the 4/5 guys I think.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 05:02 PM
Besides the superstar calls helping him, we all have to wait to see if his body can hold up. His little out side elbow pop is going down. If he can add more to his game, not lose cp3, and have his body hold up, he'll have a chance.

The superstar calls that have him shooting just 5 free throws per game and being near the top in the league in techs? Blake is not babied by refs. They seem to personally hate his guts.

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 05:02 PM
I bring up Tim Duncan because that's the name I often heard. But right now, I don't see Griffon on pace to beat out Malone, Barkley, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, C-Webb..

He was drafted to be the next great PF, and that's not what we're seeing.

Really? I can't remember hearing or seeing that anywhere. I remember when he actually got on the floor he exceeded all that was expected of him. Don't remember it being said that he was to become the next great PF. I remember a lot of that with Greg Oden at the C not Griffin at the PF.

Sactown
05-03-2013, 05:02 PM
Agreed, he has yet to take a monster leap. Thats not the same as saying hes going BACKWARDS. Which is what the laymen would wish to believe.


PER going up at all despite his usage going down is rare accomplishment considering its a usage driven stat, and his rebounding has declined because hes a better positional defender (something PER ignores altogether), so I'll gladly take the slight dropoff in individual rebounding for enhanced team results.
And CP3 actually suppresses his stats so you're not doing yourself any favors there. The usage decrease should help a players efficiency, but that hes doing it by taking more outside shots to accommodate his teammates is still impressive.


I would love for his rebounding to increase, but not at the expense of improved team defensive principles. As a rook he rarely helped off his man, now hes blitzing ball handlers and we are using his athleticism in our defensive system alot more. The results have been well worth the payoff.


You say that as if its not showing a growth in his floor game. Per36 he averaged the same amount of turnovers his rookie year as he does now, only hes added more assists. Overall all the passing efficiency metrics say its worth the payoff.


LOL no he said quite the opposite, hes made some gradual growth with regards to his own metrics, tremendous growth with regards to his defense and intangibles. Meaning, hes become more of a winner while improving his own metrics. Thats FAR from going in the "wrong direction". Dont speak for him when his words are self evident.

I never said he was going the wrong direction, I was saying, he hasn't grown leaps and bounds to show that he could lead a team to a ring as the main guy.. I don't see that out of him, at the end of his career I don't think I'm going to hear his name next to

Barkley
Malone
Garnett
Dirk
Duncan..

That's what I'm saying, his expectations after his first year were of that caliber.. that's my argument.

Also your argument of becoming a "winning player" hasn't there been reports of issues with his maturity?? Because his team is winning with increased talent each year, doesn't mean he's grown into a winner.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 05:02 PM
Are you disagreeing that have the best play making PG in the league on your team wouldn't help your TS%? And even if his improved production isn't a product of his minutes, he still hasn't improved leaps and bounds like you would like to see...
Well TS% also reflects your free throw shooting ability, hardly doubt CP3 has made Blake a better FT shooter. And Im saying CP3 stunts his OVERALL statistical output, if you want to credit him for any marginal improvement in efficiency, then you have to acknowledge his presence when discussing usage drivven metrics like PER.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 05:06 PM
I never said he was going the wrong direction
I never said you did, I said "HE DID", that was in response to your line : "Thats all HE was saying"



Also your argument of becoming a "winning player" hasn't there been reports of issues with his maturity??
Yes, just as there has been for CP3. Just as there have been reports of great locker room chemistry, whats your point? Im talking about the intangibles on the hardwood that matter more to the bottom line.


Because his team is winning with increased talent each year, doesn't mean he's grown into a winner.

Agreed, thank goodness that's not my argument. Rather everything I detailed in the post.

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 05:06 PM
Chronz and Clippersfan I don't watch the Clippers as much as you guys (matter of a fact this season I've watched them play even less than I did in Blake's 1st two seasons) why do you guys think we've seen a dip in his rebounding #s on both sides of the ball this season?

Sadds The Gr8
05-03-2013, 05:07 PM
Very disappointed in him. I thought hed have elite offensive production with a deadly face-up game, and elite rebounding by now. I don't think he's overrated anymore as he's been getting critiqued a lot in the media, but yea...I expected him to be better than he is right now aftter seeing his rookie season.

Longhornfan1234
05-03-2013, 05:12 PM
BG and CP3 are both overrated. Average stats in this year's playoffs. Wetting the bed like last year.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 05:14 PM
Hes let me down in terms of his progress, I was hoping for a Derrick Rose caliber leap.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 05:15 PM
BG and CP3 are both overrated. Average stats in this year's playoffs. Wetting the bed like last year.

Average? Blake has below average stats these playoffs. CP3 has been godly.

Wetting the bed? Pretty sure its impossible to wet the bed when your team overachieved

Chronz
05-03-2013, 05:19 PM
Chronz and Clippersfan I don't watch the Clippers as much as you guys (matter of a fact this season I've watched them play even less than I did in Blake's 1st two seasons) why do you guys think we've seen a dip in his rebounding #s on both sides of the ball this season?
Help and recover skills are still lacking, that wasn't a problem with his rebounding in the past because he rarely helped, hes like Cliff Robinson in that respect, Cliffy was a better rebounder in his youth, but became a MUCH better defender in his later days, Blake is good at the initial defense, but not a strong rebounder when combining the 2. I guess he needs to do a better job of tracking rebounds on the fly rather than just boxing out.

DallasTrilla23
05-03-2013, 05:26 PM
yup, he's the 2010's version of shawn kemp.

and ppl turned on him because of his scowl and his flopping.

I'd take Kemp over Blake any day of the week.

Longhornfan1234
05-03-2013, 05:26 PM
Average? Blake has below average stats these playoffs. CP3 has been godly.

Wetting the bed? Pretty sure its impossible to wet the bed when your team overachieved

21/6 is GODLY? STOP IT. CP3 has home court and down 3-2. Averaging 6 assist doesn't cut it.

Sactown
05-03-2013, 05:27 PM
Hes let me down in terms of his progress, I was hoping for a Derrick Rose caliber leap.

This is all my argument was, he hasn't progressed like you see most Superstar players by their 3rd season

jerellh528
05-03-2013, 05:27 PM
Can't wait to be great?
Great players have full package: great skills and athletism.
Griffin has only 1 part of that package and yet to develop the other one. (same goes for Dwight)
Griffin has to mature and start improving his skills if he wants to become great.
Hate this guy to say the truth.

Same goes for someone else we all know. ;)

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 05:28 PM
21/6 is GODLY? STOP IT. CP3 has home court and down 3-2. Averaging 6 assist doesn't cut it.

Here I was thinking all this time that this was a basketball forum. How on earth did I end up on the tennis forum. I really thought this was a TEAM sport. Thanks for correcting me.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 05:28 PM
The problem is, he's been in the league for 4 seasons, and has played 3.

You generally want to see great improvement during a players 3rd season, Blake Griffon simply isn't on pace to be the super-star player we all hoped for..

While I agree with this.


He was compared to Tim Duncan when entering the league, nothing so far has shown that he'd live up to the type of potential.

Not sure where you're getting the Timmy D comparisons from.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 05:32 PM
Swash he used to leave his man a lot on D to crash the boards, similar to what Lee and Love still do. Now he's actually defending so not able to cheat off his man as much anymore. Of course with that increased energy on D his motor on the boards is gonna be weaker too. Offensive board drop is from him playing from high post more and not being in position to crash the glass.

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 05:32 PM
21/6 is GODLY? STOP IT. CP3 has home court and down 3-2. Averaging 6 assist doesn't cut it.

A post season PER of 27.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=4&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=120&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48) for a PG is Godly.

slaker619
05-03-2013, 05:34 PM
If he really puts in that work, I can see it......#TIME

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 05:37 PM
Like Swash said rookie Blake Griffin broke all expectations people had. I personally expected 18 and 8 at best. Nobody called him the next great PF, he just se2 the bar for that.

valade16
05-03-2013, 05:40 PM
Average? Blake has below average stats these playoffs. CP3 has been godly.

Wetting the bed? Pretty sure its impossible to wet the bed when your team overachieved

Overachieved? They are possibly about to get knocked out in the 1st round. By Overachieve did you mean to say you didn't think they'd even make the playoffs?!

As for Blake Griffin, yeah I think he's a douche, completely overhyped, got a BS dunk title for jumping the license plate of a Kia, etc. etc...

But the dude can straight Ball. He is a damn fine player and anyone who can't see that is letting their hate get in the way of their analysis.

John Walls Era
05-03-2013, 05:50 PM
Wants to be great immediately just like the fans want and has to remind himself that it takes time.

So he wants things handed to him? Why doesn't he just work hard for it.

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 05:52 PM
So he wants things handed to him? Why doesn't he just work hard for it.

Reading comprehension severely lacking. Where in that does he say he wants things handed to him?

sep11ie
05-03-2013, 06:44 PM
I've never seen a fan of a team make so many threads knowing there will be nothing but bashing..

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 06:57 PM
LOL at the extremes people are going to. You guys do know that being overrated and underrated isn't a critique, you can be overrated and still be the best player in the game.

to be fair, even before last season, he was top 10 in ESPN rankings, and the media tends to rank him as an elite player many times. He has a chance to be special, I thought the curve would have been sharper after seeing his rookie season and his ball handling ability however. He won't ever dominate like LeBron for instance, but he could end up having a 8-9 year all NBA type prime I believe. I still think he gets labeled overrated because it's obvious the NBA is dying for him to be the next posterboy, and he is thrown down our throats relentlessly.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 06:59 PM
yeah, i already shared it with you. Per 36 numbers are useless, his actual numbers have gone down every year. He's a former #1 overall pick, if injuries aren't to blame, then he's not being trusted. Minutes don't just magically go away 3 years into a young and bright career.

his minutes have dropped as his team got better is why. He has risen each year in efficiency, and impact statistically. But it's not a huge curve, just a steady one. I think that is why many say he is overrated. He is thrown at us, the basketball public, as a superstar, when he hasn't taken that big step yet.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:08 PM
Hawkeye you think if Rose had let's say Love added to his team he would of blown up as much his MVP year? Blake's now "Robin" instead of Batman. I'm sure if Blake was the best player on the Clippers still he would be putting up 24-25 ppg. He regularly scores 15-20 in first halves before being benched a lot of the second half or getting no touches. When he attacks he's dominant.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:15 PM
Actually not even comparable because CP3 dominates the ball more than anybody in the NBA probably. Blake went from having the ball in his hands nonstop to going multiple possessions in a row without even touching the ball.

Riodagoat
05-03-2013, 07:18 PM
To me, he's basically a Dwight Howard 2.0
Very athletic and a great finisher but no post-up game and can not get his own shot on a consistent basis.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 07:20 PM
Hawkeye you think if Rose had let's say Love added to his team he would of blown up as much his MVP year? Blake's now "Robin" instead of Batman. I'm sure if Blake was the best player on the Clippers still he would be putting up 24-25 ppg. He regularly scores 15-20 in first halves before being benched a lot of the second half or getting no touches. When he attacks he's dominant.

That isn't what I mean. I am talking as far as impact. And furthermore, yes, I thought after Blake's rookie year, he was 1-2 years tops from being a top 2-4 player, which would have bumped CP3. I have no doubt that CP3 is encroaching on Blake's numbers to some degree, but that doesn't mean his individual development shouldn't have been on a higher curve.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:28 PM
That isn't what I mean. I am talking as far as impact. And furthermore, yes, I thought after Blake's rookie year, he was 1-2 years tops from being a top 2-4 player, which would have bumped CP3. I have no doubt that CP3 is encroaching on Blake's numbers to some degree, but that doesn't mean his individual development shouldn't have been on a higher curve.

I agree his impact is behind the other guys who blew up like Rose and that comes down purely to mentality. If you read this article he says multiple times he doesn't want to be THE guy. Not what Clippers fans want to hear going forward TBH. Even new stars like Curry and Paul George WANT to be the man and that's what we need from Blake. Ideally I'd like the balance of Griffin and CP3 to be similar to Brand and Cassell in 06 where Brand was the 20/10 horse every night but Cassell ran the show and took over in the clutch.

CP3 can be the closer but Blake needs to be more aggressive in the way of scoring and stop trying to play PG.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:29 PM
Also beyond CP3 don't forget we have a lot ball stoppers and players that burn up possessions. Caron Butler, Jamal Crawford and even Chauncey Billups have all become main pieces for our team and ALL of them regularly take away better possessions from Blake.

sneak
05-03-2013, 07:38 PM
The superstar calls that have him shooting just 5 free throws per game and being near the top in the league in techs? Blake is not babied by refs. They seem to personally hate his guts.

Blake superstar call = not calling offensive fouls on him.
As for the techs, he can become a cry baby.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:40 PM
Blake superstar call = not calling offensive fouls on him.
As for the techs, he can become a cry baby.

I agree he deserves the techs... but it also proves they don't baby him. Also what offensive fouls? The calls missed when he gets hammered are 10 times more numerous than the occasional poster dunk that you call an offensive foul. Bottom line is he's not liked among refs and gets away with less than pretty much anybody else. Players on poster dunks have ALWAYS used the offhand to shield. Pull up Vince Carter's dunk mix. Pull up Jordan's. Pull up Kemp's.

Heediot
05-03-2013, 07:43 PM
The problem is, you can't keep giving the excuse of injuries... honestly, do you see Blake Griffen as the centerpiece of a title team? I don't see him as the 1st option of a multiple time winning franchise.. I see him as a great 2nd piece.. When he was drafted he was expected to be the next Duncan

This is your claim. No experts compared his game to Duncan.

If he makes the HOF (at this pace, a pretty good chance) that's more than enough to warrant being the first overall pick.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 07:44 PM
21/6 is GODLY? STOP IT.
Stop what? Yes its godly when you consider A) Efficiency, B) Opponent, C) his best sidekick has been his backup.

Maybe you should stop using 2 numbers as a barometer for statistical supremacy.


CP3 has home court and down 3-2.
Having Home court isn't as important as having HELP.


Averaging 6 assist doesn't cut it.
You do know what an assist is right? The OTHER player has to make the shot for it to register. So I agree, those OTHER guys need to start hitting their shots.

Chronz
05-03-2013, 07:47 PM
Overachieved? They are possibly about to get knocked out in the 1st round. By Overachieve did you mean to say you didn't think they'd even make the playoffs?!
They? Im talking about 1 player and the effect hes had on his team.
He said CP3 wet the bed this year AND the last, thats what I'm contesting and by overachieve I mean exactly that. If CP3 doesn't play this brilliantly, we are already out of the playoffs and last year we wouldn't have gotten past the Grizz without him stepping up and playing through injury.

For example, if the Lakers would have pushed the Spurs to 6, they would have overachieved IMO.

sneak
05-03-2013, 07:49 PM
I agree he deserves the techs... but it also proves they don't baby him. Also what offensive fouls? The calls missed when he gets hammered are 10 times more numerous than the occasional poster dunk that you call an offensive foul. Bottom line is he's not liked among refs and gets away with less than pretty much anybody else. Players on poster dunks have ALWAYS used the offhand to shield. Pull up Vince Carter's dunk mix. Pull up Jordan's. Pull up Kemp's.

Hey, just how I see it. Like I said before, he has a chance to become great. But he is not there yet. And he has a lot of work to do to get there. But fighting the refs, will be the death of a wanna be GREAT one.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:51 PM
This is your claim. No experts compared his game to Duncan.

If he makes the HOF (at this pace, a pretty good chance) that's more than enough to warrant being the first overall pick.

Good post. I want to see where people said he would be the next Duncan lol. What I DO remember is most people thinking Beasley would be the better player. Like I said.. I had him as an 18 and 8 at best player as a rookie so when he came out and put up 22.5/12/4 I was blown away and caught off guard.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:51 PM
Hey, just how I see it. Like I said before, he has a chance to become great. But he is not there yet. And he has a lot of work to do to get there. But fighting the refs, will be the death of a wanna be GREAT one.

I agree going after refs is a big problem.

Blitzbolt
05-03-2013, 07:52 PM
I seen him for 2 playoff series and he has DONE nothing to impact the game last year Evans and Martin help him out but this year he has no help and it looks like he took a step backwards.

He has 0 impact on the game sometimes I wish the Clipps would just give him more touches because CP3 is just a beast.

Heediot
05-03-2013, 07:56 PM
I seen him for 2 playoff series and he has DONE nothing to impact the game last year Evans and Martin help him out but this year he has no help and it looks like he took a step backwards.

He has 0 impact on the game sometimes I wish the Clipps would just give him more touches because CP3 is just a beast.

He needs to step up his play in the playoffs no doubt. Also it may be possible that the Grizz bigs are just a bad match-up for him.

You are right the Clippers REALLY miss KMart/Evans for this series.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 07:59 PM
I seen him for 2 playoff series and he has DONE nothing to impact the game last year Evans and Martin help him out but this year he has no help and it looks like he took a step backwards.

He has 0 impact on the game sometimes I wish the Clipps would just give him more touches because CP3 is just a beast.

Huh? He was averaging 21 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg in the first 4 games vs the Grizzlies last year prior to his knee injury. You expect him to have the same averages against the best frontcourt in basketball? Of course he will be slowed some but what you're remembering is him being injured twice in the playoffs two years in a row against your team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_b6Hrz1Wuk

Watch this again, maybe you'll remember. He was flat out DOMINANT. 30/5/7/2/2.

John Walls Era
05-03-2013, 08:00 PM
Reading comprehension severely lacking. Where in that does he say he wants things handed to him?

I'm a Blake Basher.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:01 PM
This year no doubt Memphis has locked him up pretty good but doesn't mean he isn't a great player. Just means Memphis huge, dominant frontcourt is just a bad matchup for him and they obviously are.

Blitzbolt
05-03-2013, 08:08 PM
This is big boy basketball and Griffin is not a big boy yet.

I told you Griffin was not gonna survive this series injury free moths ago.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:11 PM
This is big boy basketball and Griffin is not a big boy yet.

I told you Griffin was not gonna survive this series injury free moths ago.

He got injured during practice... lol. Not from "big boy basketball" against your team.

Blitzbolt
05-03-2013, 08:16 PM
He got injured during practice... lol. Not from "big boy basketball" against your team.One way or another Bigs don't survive us we don't bluff we play with injury's.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:17 PM
One way or another Bigs don't survive us we don't bluff we play with injury's.

That's awesome, grats to your team for not bluffing.

Heediot
05-03-2013, 08:24 PM
IF KMart and Evans were around, I think Blake plays better in the series. DJ is a lil' ****** getting punked and pretty much worthless. KMart and Evans don't back down, and bring that grit and energy. KMart wouldn't give Gasol easy jumpers as DJ did. KMart is one of the best perimeter defending big men in the league. Blake would be able to switch off of whoever Mart and Evans can give fits to and play his game. He getting worn down defensively, and its effecting his over-all game.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Kmart played good defense but he's replaceable. His attitude was poor and he refused to come off the bench when called and got into it with teammates, that's why he got let go. Odom's defense is at least comparable when he's not in foul trouble. The big loss was Zbo stopper Reggie Evans. He's maybe the only more physical, hungrier PF in the game than Zbo so he shut him down whenever he was on the floor. I said all year long we HAD to bring him back and was furious when we traded him for peanuts. Now we see how bad we could have used his D on Zbo, rebounding and physicality. The guy had like 3 or 4 20 rebound games off the bench this year..

Heediot
05-03-2013, 08:31 PM
Kmart played good defense but he's replaceable. His attitude was poor and he refused to come off the bench when called and got into it with teammates, that's why he got let go. Odom's defense is at least comparable when he's not in foul trouble. The big loss was Zbo stopper Reggie Evans. He's maybe the only more physical, hungrier PF in the game than Zbo so he shut him down whenever he was on the floor. I said all year long we HAD to bring him back and was furious when we traded him for peanuts. Now we see how bad we could have used his D on Zbo, rebounding and physicality. The guy had like 3 or 4 20 rebound games off the bench this year..

Yeah he's replaceable, but I'm pretty sure he'd make Gasol work for his J and force more difficult looks at least for this series. I think we miss him for this series, not really overall.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 08:32 PM
I agree his impact is behind the other guys who blew up like Rose and that comes down purely to mentality. If you read this article he says multiple times he doesn't want to be THE guy. Not what Clippers fans want to hear going forward TBH. Even new stars like Curry and Paul George WANT to be the man and that's what we need from Blake. Ideally I'd like the balance of Griffin and CP3 to be similar to Brand and Cassell in 06 where Brand was the 20/10 horse every night but Cassell ran the show and took over in the clutch.

CP3 can be the closer but Blake needs to be more aggressive in the way of scoring and stop trying to play PG.

If he truly doesn't have the desire to be the man, it means he doesn't want to fulfill his potential. Sad.

Heediot
05-03-2013, 08:32 PM
I was big on DJ because he had a good work ethic, but I only have 20% faith in him.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 08:33 PM
I seen him for 2 playoff series and he has DONE nothing to impact the game last year Evans and Martin help him out but this year he has no help and it looks like he took a step backwards.

He has 0 impact on the game sometimes I wish the Clipps would just give him more touches because CP3 is just a beast.

So you have watched him like 10 times? Cool, I will start judging players like that too....

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:33 PM
Yeah he's replaceable, but I'm pretty sure he'd make Gasol work for his J and force more difficult looks at least for this series. I think we miss him for this series, not really overall.

Fair enough and no doubt he would have helped in SOME way. At the very least to put the Grizzlies players on their ***** with hard fouls. BTW I have 0 percent faith in DJ. He's dead to me the way fat Baron Davis was. Unless he suddenly reaches his potential this summer I want his *** off my team at all costs. If we have to take back a bad contract to get rid of the mental midget who's attitude is a cancer, do it.

Blitzbolt
05-03-2013, 08:35 PM
So you have watched him like 10 times? Cool, I will start judging players like that too....10 times in the playoffs>200 regular season games.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 08:36 PM
So you have watched him like 10 times? Cool, I will start judging players like that too....

Keep in mind, this is a guy who believes that the best player in the Nba is Chris Bosh.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:37 PM
If he truly doesn't have the desire to be the man, it means he doesn't want to fulfill his potential. Sad.

Maybe it was my poor translation but here's the quote from the article I'm referencing, tell me what you think.


"Somebody tried to say last year, 'Man, you went from Batman to Robin real quick,' " Griffin says, smiling. "But honestly, to me, it was like, 'Batman and Robin always saved the day.'

"It's not about being the man. I just want to be a winner, and CP is going to help me be a winner.

"If I'm starting this business, I want to bring in this CEO who's been successful in other businesses. I want him on my team, because that's how my company will grow." Do they see eye-to-eye on everything? No. There are arguments over how the Clippers should play. There is frustration and friction from time to time.

Griffin had to change his game to play with Paul, and vice versa. But overall, they have a great relationship.

"When I feel I'm playing at my best, I'm facilitating," Griffin says. "I like having the ball in the post -- not because I need to score every time, but because I like to make plays from there.



Like I said I don't want to hear this kind of PC answer bullcrap from a young superstar. I WANT him to dominate and say he wants to run this team and carry the scoring load.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:38 PM
10 times in the playoffs>200 regular season games.

:confused:

Heediot
05-03-2013, 08:39 PM
10 times in the playoffs>200 regular season games.
:lol:

You judge him for his performance 10X vs. 1 opponent? That's a pretty weak sample to judge his over-all game.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 08:41 PM
10 times in the playoffs>200 regular season games.

not so much, but you have long proved that your theory on ranking players is ridiculous.

Blitzbolt
05-03-2013, 08:42 PM
Who cares if you drop 20 and 10 on the regular season if you don't preform in the playoffs??

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:44 PM
Who cares if you drop 20 and 10 on the regular season if you don't preform in the playoffs??

Nobody is denying that the playoffs are more important but when ranking or assessing a player you need to factor all of it. 10 or 11 games vs 200 games is a HUGE disparity.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 08:45 PM
Maybe it was my poor translation but here's the quote from the article I'm referencing, tell me what you think.


"Somebody tried to say last year, 'Man, you went from Batman to Robin real quick,' " Griffin says, smiling. "But honestly, to me, it was like, 'Batman and Robin always saved the day.'

"It's not about being the man. I just want to be a winner, and CP is going to help me be a winner.

"If I'm starting this business, I want to bring in this CEO who's been successful in other businesses. I want him on my team, because that's how my company will grow." Do they see eye-to-eye on everything? No. There are arguments over how the Clippers should play. There is frustration and friction from time to time.

Griffin had to change his game to play with Paul, and vice versa. But overall, they have a great relationship.

"When I feel I'm playing at my best, I'm facilitating," Griffin says. "I like having the ball in the post -- not because I need to score every time, but because I like to make plays from there.



Like I said I don't want to hear this kind of PC answer bullcrap from a young superstar. I WANT him to dominate and say he wants to run this team and carry the scoring load.

Yep, I don't like hearing that honestly. If he is going to live up to his talent, he needs to have a much more aggressive mindset, and strive to be the greatest he can be.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 08:46 PM
Who cares if you drop 20 and 10 on the regular season if you don't preform in the playoffs??

And here I was thinking that performance actually matter.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 08:49 PM
Who cares if you drop 20 and 10 on the regular season if you don't preform in the playoffs??

It's just funny coming from a fan of a team who has done literally nothing in their history. Not quite sure how to peg you, outside you stated many times that Chalmers is better than Irving, which is hilarious.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:51 PM
Yep, I don't like hearing that honestly. If he is going to live up to his talent, he needs to have a much more aggressive mindset, and strive to be the greatest he can be.

Agree and sadly if he thinks this is the right way, we can't expect it to change. His last hope is a hardass coach like Jerry Sloan or SVG who will FORCE him to become mentally tougher and more aggressive. Somebody that will punish him if he doesn't attack more. If we hire another pushover coach like VDN that allows Blake to play how he's comfortable the prediction of eventually being a 25 ppg player in his prime won't happen. He will become Carlos Boozer 2.0.

Sactown
05-03-2013, 09:21 PM
The problem is, he's been in the league for 4 seasons, and has played 3.

You generally want to see great improvement during a players 3rd season, Blake Griffon simply isn't on pace to be the super-star player we all hoped for..

While I agree with this.


He was compared to Tim Duncan when entering the league, nothing so far has shown that he'd live up to the type of potential.

Not sure where you're getting the Timmy D comparisons from.

After his Rookie Season he had been the first player since Tim D to post such insane numbers... it was brought up pretty often...

AND as I've stated, I never expected him to pass Tim D, but I did expect more improvement

Jarvo
05-03-2013, 09:21 PM
Ehh give me Lemarcus, Bosh & Ibaka instead of him.

Blitzbolt
05-03-2013, 09:27 PM
It's just funny coming from a fan of a team who has done literally nothing in their history. Not quite sure how to peg you, outside you stated many times that Chalmers is better than Irving, which is hilarious.I never talk about my team or players they have DONE NOTHING Tallen and Prince have rings but the rest have done NOTHING and I'm the first to tell that to people.

Gasol just won DPOY do you think I care?winning playoffs games/series its what matters.

The Memphis Grizzlies suck and that's a fact I'm not afraid to admit that.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 09:30 PM
After his Rookie Season he had been the first player since Tim D to post such insane numbers... it was brought up pretty often...

AND as I've stated, I never expected him to pass Tim D, but I did expect more improvement

Yea his numbers in category xyz was the first since Duncan. But I meant gamewise. He plays nothing like Timmy.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 09:31 PM
I never talk about my team or players they have DONE NOTHING Tallen and Prince have rings but the rest have done NOTHING and I'm the first to tell that to people that.

Gasol just won DPOY do you think I care?winning playoffs games/series its what matters.

You need to get laid or something man.

Source
05-03-2013, 10:01 PM
His game is built for the regular season. He has came up small in the playoffs twice now, and it just shows how meaningless his numbers in the regular season are if he can't translate it into the playoffs, where it actually matters.

ThaDubs
05-03-2013, 10:12 PM
Griffin tends to be underrated because people look at him as overrated. I think he's a great player, but he has definitely slowed down since his rookie year.

ThaDubs
05-03-2013, 10:13 PM
His game is built for the regular season. He has came up small in the playoffs twice now, and it just shows how meaningless his numbers in the regular season are if he can't translate it into the playoffs, where it actually matters.

He was/is playing with his worst ever ankle sprain in the playoffs iirc.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 11:01 PM
Dubs Griffin is playing with a moderate to severe HIGH ANKLE sprain. The same exact injury that kept Tony Parker out over 3 weeks at the end of the season. For Blake to even be playing through it like this for ANY amount of minutes is incredible.

kdspurman
05-03-2013, 11:53 PM
Dubs Griffin is playing with a moderate to severe HIGH ANKLE sprain. The same exact injury that kept Tony Parker out over 3 weeks at the end of the season. For Blake to even be playing through it like this for ANY amount of minutes is incredible.

Tony's wasn't a high ankle sprain I don't believe, but a grade 2 ankle sprain. High ankle sprains are definitely a tough one to play through if at all. Especially for someone like Blake who relies on explosiveness.

nytunnelvision
05-04-2013, 12:04 AM
I hope CP3 leaves the Clips and Blake gets to see if he is really up for the task of being a bigger facilitator. CP3 deserves a team that appreciates his game and knows how to play off him better ala David West

ThaDubs
05-04-2013, 12:12 AM
Nobody likes playing with hurt ankles period, but it's a whole different thing when you're playing with a hurt ankle while matched up with Zach Randolph.

ThaDubs
05-04-2013, 12:14 AM
Looks like Clips and Rockets could be done.

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:37 AM
LOL at the extremes people are going to. You guys do know that being overrated and underrated isn't a critique, you can be overrated and still be the best player in the game.

He was projected to be the next great PF and he's clearly not that player. He's overrated in that sense and that is not false.

Clippersfan86
05-04-2013, 12:43 AM
He was projected to be the next great PF and he's clearly not that player. He's overrated in that sense and that is not false.

Projected by who? BTW he is the next great PF. He's a 20/10/3, 3 time all star, 2 time All NBA team for his career in 3 seasons.

HeaTxRipZz
05-04-2013, 12:55 AM
I don't think Blake is overrated. A year or 2 ago I would have agreed but seeing him improve in the areas he needed to I can't hate. I loved how he took the different things he learned in the Olympics from Melo and used it like the step back jumper

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:58 AM
I don't think Blake is overrated. A year or 2 ago I would have agreed but seeing him improve in the areas he needed to I can't hate. I loved how he took the different things he learned in the Olympics from Melo and used it like the step back jumper

That he hits 20% of the time.. That's actually the only move he knows when he's stuck dribbling. The guy seriously needs to stop the dunking act and start learning the fundamentals. He's quicker and more athletic than Randolph, there's no reason he can't dominate him.

Chronz
05-04-2013, 01:02 AM
He was projected to be the next great PF and he's clearly not that player. He's overrated in that sense and that is not false.

Show me these projections, Im pretty sure people were wondering if his lack of length and lack of shooting to offset it would rear its ugly head.

Hes a great PF but not the best.

Chronz
05-04-2013, 01:03 AM
That he hits 20% of the time.. That's actually the only move he knows when he's stuck dribbling. The guy seriously needs to stop the dunking act and start learning the fundamentals. He's quicker and more athletic than Randolph, there's no reason he can't dominate him.
Randolph has a wider base, people develop their games according to their body types

Jarvo
05-04-2013, 01:03 AM
Projected by who? BTW he is the next great PF. He's a 20/10/3, 3 time all star, 2 time All NBA team for his career in 3 seasons.

Slow your role there cowboy lol

HeaTxRipZz
05-04-2013, 01:04 AM
That he hits 20% of the time.. That's actually the only move he knows when he's stuck dribbling. The guy seriously needs to stop the dunking act and start learning the fundamentals. He's quicker and more athletic than Randolph, there's no reason he can't dominate him.

I do agree he needs to learn more than just dunks but we could say that about so many other young PFs of the past.(Amare comes to mind) Hopefully he's smart enough to learn it before injuries and age take over because he would be a beast if he spends a summer learning under Hakeem

VikesTwinsWolve
05-04-2013, 01:04 AM
Love>Blake

HeaTxRipZz
05-04-2013, 01:05 AM
^ If only Love could stay healthy. Been a fan since his college days but he has got to find a way to stay healthy lol

Swashcuff
05-04-2013, 09:15 AM
Reading through this thread makes me even happier that I place Blitzbolt on my ignore list. Truly one of PSDs worst posters. :puke:

D-Leethal
05-04-2013, 09:28 AM
Show me these projections, Im pretty sure people were wondering if his lack of length and lack of shooting to offset it would rear its ugly head.

Hes a great PF but not the best.

You serious? You need people to pull up articles from 5 years ago stating the #1 overall pick was projected to be one of the leagues next great players.

He said 'he was projected to be the next great PF'

You said: 'hes great but not the best'

Who said hes the best?

Sometimes your offensive skillset matters more than your efficiency stats. He has an extremely limited repertoire and only has 1 or 2 ways he can create a shot. You need 'proof' for that too?

lakerboy
05-04-2013, 12:28 PM
Most legit analysts of basketball agree he's become UNDERRATED if anything. Numbers have declined due to WAY less minutes, less shots, less touches, less usage. He's become underrated because people act like he's not even a top 20 player anymore because his raw numbers are down. His PER 36 numbers are 21/10/4/1.5 on great efficiency and improved defense, so not sure how you can be "overrated". Still raw and nowhere near his prime is more like it.

The problem with Blake isn't really the stat numbers. He is getting better I am sure in rebounding, scoring, et al.

The problem with Blake is the way he is getting those numbers. He is still doing it the same way (athletically). He hasn't really developed any kind of smooth post up game like a Gasol or Duncan. He is looking more and more like Josh Smith and Kenyon Martin down there.

kdspurman
05-04-2013, 12:32 PM
Yep, I don't like hearing that honestly. If he is going to live up to his talent, he needs to have a much more aggressive mindset, and strive to be the greatest he can be.

+1... He has the physical abilities. But there's more to it than that.

Clippersfan86
05-04-2013, 12:57 PM
I re-read it from start to finish and I believe I may have read it incorrectly. He isn't saying in general he wants his main role to be a passer. He's saying basically he wants more touches down low to make plays. CP3 dominates 20+ seconds of our shotclocks and rookie Blake got touches every single possession and I think he wants that kind of control again. Although still it's not an ideal mindset. He needs to focus more on cutting, deep post catches, crashing the glass.

Clippersfan86
05-04-2013, 12:57 PM
Oh and set better screens Blake! That opens up EVERYTHING on offense.

Lakers Ghost
05-04-2013, 01:01 PM
he will be waiting his whole life... never going to happen.

Chronz
05-04-2013, 01:11 PM
You serious? You need people to pull up articles from 5 years ago stating the #1 overall pick was projected to be one of the leagues next great players.

He said 'he was projected to be the next great PF'

You said: 'hes great but not the best'

Who said hes the best?
Read his post, he said hes clearly not what he was projected to become. Its a matter of deduction, if being one of the best isn't enough for him, then obviously he expected alot more. Thats simply not what I remember, so yea I want to see these projections. Some people here were comparing/Projecting a Duncan-esque curve, I dont remember ANY of that kind of talk so yea, I need some links. Got any?



Sometimes your offensive skillset matters more than your efficiency stats.
Dont know what you're trying to say here. They go hand in hand but Id much rather he be efficient than have an abundance of low% moves. If he could just get an outlet jumpshot, I would be more than happy with him as a player. If he expands his game further than that then more power to him, so long as they are effective moves that he can rely on and not something that really takes away from his power game.


He has an extremely limited repertoire and only has 1 or 2 ways he can create a shot. You need 'proof' for that too?
Well yea, 1 or 2 ways sounds like a made up number. What matters most for him is his health, when hes good he has a good feel for the basket, but because hes so undersized, he really needs his ups when trying out his new low post moves.

D-Leethal
05-04-2013, 04:26 PM
Read his post, he said hes clearly not what he was projected to become. Its a matter of deduction, if being one of the best isn't enough for him, then obviously he expected alot more. Thats simply not what I remember, so yea I want to see these projections. Some people here were comparing/Projecting a Duncan-esque curve, I dont remember ANY of that kind of talk so yea, I need some links. Got any?


Dont know what you're trying to say here. They go hand in hand but Id much rather he be efficient than have an abundance of low% moves. If he could just get an outlet jumpshot, I would be more than happy with him as a player. If he expands his game further than that then more power to him, so long as they are effective moves that he can rely on and not something that really takes away from his power game.


Well yea, 1 or 2 ways sounds like a made up number. What matters most for him is his health, when hes good he has a good feel for the basket, but because hes so undersized, he really needs his ups when trying out his new low post moves.

2 is a made up number, my point is that hes easily checked and doesn't have many ways to counteract great defense. Thats going to prevent him from scoring in big moments until he gets a knock down jumper and a better 1 on 1 repertoire. Most games, especially in the playoffs, come down to the ability to beat your man 1 on 1 late in the game, and Blake does not have that ability to succeed very often in those situations. Thats where your repertoire matters and the alley oop dunks and shots from within 3 feet that bump your efficiency stats are irrelevant.

Your not going to get those dunks and easy buckets in crunch time, your going to have to score against a stationary defender in half court sets. Blake is pedestrian in those situations regardless of his ability to get easy buckets off PG play.

Even if you take too many tough contested shots throughout the course of a season, the ability to actually hit those shots turns out to be key. Every champion has a guy who's pretty elite in that category. Dirk, Bron/Wade/Bosh, Pierce, Kobe, TP/Manu and it goes back as far as you want to go. Sometimes your % taking tough contested shots proves to be more valuable than your overall %, because when you microanalyze the game in crunch time, where games are won or lost, your usually going to have to score tough contested shots. Something tells me when Blake is well defended, his % relative to other elite players is not very good.

The ability to create a shot is very valuable and needs to be accounted for even if theres no stat that represents that ability.

Chronz
05-04-2013, 04:47 PM
Read his post, he said hes clearly not what he was projected to become. Its a matter of deduction, if being one of the best isn't enough for him, then obviously he expected alot more. Thats simply not what I remember, so yea I want to see these projections. Some people here were comparing/Projecting a Duncan-esque curve, I dont remember ANY of that kind of talk so yea, I need some links. Got any?


Dont know what you're trying to say here. They go hand in hand but Id much rather he be efficient than have an abundance of low% moves. If he could just get an outlet jumpshot, I would be more than happy with him as a player. If he expands his game further than that then more power to him, so long as they are effective moves that he can rely on and not something that really takes away from his power game.


Well yea, 1 or 2 ways sounds like a made up number. What matters most for him is his health, when hes good he has a good feel for the basket, but because hes so undersized, he really needs his ups when trying out his new low post moves.

2 is a made up number, my point is that hes easily checked and doesn't have many ways to counteract great defense. Thats going to prevent him from scoring in big moments until he gets a knock down jumper and a better 1 on 1 repertoire. Most games, especially in the playoffs, come down to the ability to beat your man 1 on 1 late in the game, and Blake does not have that ability to succeed very often in those situations. Thats where your repertoire matters and the alley oop dunks and shots from within 3 feet that bump your efficiency stats are irrelevant.

Your not going to get those dunks and easy buckets in crunch time, your going to have to score against a stationary defender in half court sets. Blake is pedestrian in those situations regardless of his ability to get easy buckets off PG play.

Even if you take too many tough contested shots throughout the course of a season, the ability to actually hit those shots turns out to be key. Every champion has a guy who's pretty elite in that category. Sometimes your % taking tough contested shots proves to be more valuable than your overall %, because when you microanalyze the game in crunch time, where games are won or lost, your usually going to have to score tough contested shots.
We view the game in fundamentally different ways, I dont buy that the game comes down to those tight situations. To me this screams of the stuff people were saying about Rudy Gay being worth keeping. The Grizz are much better now that their offense is more efficient and doesnt
rely on his low % "diversity". Their offense doesn't bog down the way it used to.

Facts are, you can win games with a dreadful offense if your defense is good enough, so boiling wining and losing down to such a simplistic stance doesn't make much sense to me.

Like I said, if he gets more if a repertoire then good, so long as it doesn't take away from his/the teams overall efficiency I'm all for it, who wouldn't want that? But thats not the only way to improve your offensive game. Strengthening your already strong facets is another, but he must get some semblance of an outlet jumper for our teams offense to thrive and to open up his drives. I wish he would cut the over dribbling crap out tho.

jerellh528
05-04-2013, 04:48 PM
I don't know why people say "all he does is dunk" dunking is like the epitome of what you want your big man to be doing. It means your at the rim and constantly finish with authority. If all you do is dunk, the should say you have a knack for getting to the rim, which IMO is a good thing. If he was like lma or love and just shot jumpers that's when you should be worried about your big. Dunking is like the highest % shot there is lol.