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ThunderousDemon
05-03-2013, 03:55 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9239537/2013-nba-playoffs-lebron-james-miami-heat-named-mvp-fourth

James averaged 26.8 points, 8.0 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 1.7 steals and one block in 76 games during his 10th season in the league. He shot career-best percentages from the field (.565) and 3-point range (.406) and ranked in the top 10 in scoring, assists, steals and field-goal percentage among those who have played in at least 70 games this season.

Last week, James also finished second in Defensive Player of the Year voting for the second time since 2009. He led the Heat to a franchise-best 66-16 finish, which included the best home record in team history and a 27-game win streak that was second-longest in NBA history behind the 33-game streak set by the 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers.

wow.

discuss

DodgerB24
05-03-2013, 03:55 PM
Well deserved.

KniCks4LiFe
05-03-2013, 03:58 PM
nothing to discuss. Great for him.

Becks2307
05-03-2013, 03:58 PM
Well deserved, this guy is ridiculous.

Aust
05-03-2013, 03:58 PM
For some reason I thought it was his 5th

KniCks4LiFe
05-03-2013, 04:01 PM
For some reason I thought it was his 5th

should have 5. Derrick Rose has 1.

ThunderousDemon
05-03-2013, 04:01 PM
Poor Durant, he has no control over being second.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-03-2013, 04:02 PM
I want to see if it's unanimous. It'd be a shame if it wasn't.

MonroeFAN
05-03-2013, 04:05 PM
it's such BS that rose won an MVP.

Congrats Bron, should be his 5th.

justinnum1
05-03-2013, 04:06 PM
:dance::clap::dance2::clap::dance:

D-Leethal
05-03-2013, 04:09 PM
Well deserved.

MVP comes out before COY?

blahblahyoutoo
05-03-2013, 04:09 PM
should have 5. Derrick Rose has 1.

yup, the rose mvp was almost as bs as the nash ones.

Jarvo
05-03-2013, 04:10 PM
:clap: should have been his 5th

MTL_123
05-03-2013, 04:12 PM
:dance: should have been his 5th tho

NeverSayNevur
05-03-2013, 04:16 PM
The best 2 way player the NBA has seen since Kobe in his prime

AlexTmz2
05-03-2013, 04:16 PM
well deserved.

justinnum1
05-03-2013, 04:16 PM
Could be the first unanimous winner

ThunderousDemon
05-03-2013, 04:16 PM
The best 2 way player the NBA has seen since Kobe in his prime

:hide:

naps
05-03-2013, 04:17 PM
Straight up BOSS. Question is can he touch Kareem on this award? Kareem won his 5th when he was 30 and one more after that. As it seems, James should comfortably be able to earn his 6th assuming he stays healthy for the rest of his prime.

Longhornfan1234
05-03-2013, 04:18 PM
King James joins an elite club.


Kareem: 6

Bill Russell: 5

Michael Jordan: 5

Wilt Chamberlain: 4


We're not worthy. He's a God. :worthy::worthy:

naps
05-03-2013, 04:20 PM
The best 2 way player the NBA has seen since Kobe in his prime

Might as well say the best two-way player ever. He has a very good case for it. He's been one of the top vote getters in the DPOY last 5 years, twice being 2nd in the ballot. And his versatility on defense adds more in the argument.

IKnowHoops
05-03-2013, 04:21 PM
The best 2 way player the NBA has seen since Kobe in his prime

Get rid of "2 way" and replace "Kobe" with "Jordan" and then you have it right. Or keep "2 way" if you like.

justinnum1
05-03-2013, 04:21 PM
Lebron is the best 2 way player since Jordan

DumDum
05-03-2013, 04:23 PM
best 2 way player since 2011-2012 lebron

bucketss
05-03-2013, 04:24 PM
lebron>jordan

DumDum
05-03-2013, 04:24 PM
they should have mailed it to him in Jan

bucketss
05-03-2013, 04:24 PM
;)

HeaTxRipZz
05-03-2013, 04:27 PM
COngrats to him....Well deserved for sure

Strumpy
05-03-2013, 04:29 PM
I knew him improved from 3-point range, but 40%??? That's ridiculous.

NYKnickFanatic
05-03-2013, 04:29 PM
Congrats to probably the greatest player to ever play the game. The man is a monster. Well deserved.

NYKnickFanatic
05-03-2013, 04:29 PM
lebron>jordan

Agreed.

mikekhelxD
05-03-2013, 04:31 PM
Can't complain about this.

NYKNYGNYY
05-03-2013, 04:35 PM
Totally came outta left field :rolleyes:

beliges
05-03-2013, 04:40 PM
Congrats to Bron Bron. Now all that is left for him to get to that all time legend status of the Magics, MJs and Kobes is another 2-3 titles. But with the state of the league right now, there is nothing stopping Bron from achieving that success. Will be interesting to see if he can get there.

JoeBlessU
05-03-2013, 04:47 PM
How exciting.. Lebron with another MVP and likely NBA title.. We can expect these same results for the next 5+ years, its like watching a bad re-run over and over and over and over. What a joke of a "sport".. more like a WWE match

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 04:52 PM
The best 2 way player the NBA has seen since Kobe in his prime

Based on the last season Kobe had I'd say he's still in his prime. Maybe not athletically/defensively but as an offensive player last year was better than many of his younger years.

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 04:53 PM
How exciting.. Lebron with another MVP and likely NBA title.. We can expect these same results for the next 5+ years, its like watching a bad re-run over and over and over and over. What a joke of a "sport".. more like a WWE match

Thanks for coming to a basketball forum to state how much of a joke it is. Do tell us more why don't you?

TheIlladelph16
05-03-2013, 04:53 PM
How exciting.. Lebron with another MVP and likely NBA title.. We can expect these same results for the next 5+ years, its like watching a bad re-run over and over and over and over. What a joke of a "sport".. more like a WWE match

I was waiting for you or Melo's butt buddy to show up to muck this thread up

DumDum
05-03-2013, 04:55 PM
How exciting.. Lebron with another MVP and likely NBA title.. We can expect these same results for the next 5+ years, its like watching a bad re-run over and over and over and over. What a joke of a "sport".. more like a WWE match

put a jersey on and play D on lebron for a whole game I bet you be singing a different tune

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 04:57 PM
The best 2 way player the NBA has seen since Kobe in his prime

since MJ in his prime really

Well deserved.

PleaseBeNice
05-03-2013, 04:58 PM
it's such BS that rose won an MVP.

Congrats Bron, should be his 5th.

Agreed.

PleaseBeNice
05-03-2013, 05:03 PM
How exciting.. Lebron with another MVP and likely NBA title.. We can expect these same results for the next 5+ years, its like watching a bad re-run over and over and over and over. What a joke of a "sport".. more like a WWE match
Go see a mental health doctor.

LayBraun
05-03-2013, 05:06 PM
Should have been 5 in a row. Regardless, 4 MVPs at age 28 is ridiculous.

Where does he rank with another ring and FMVP? Top 5 for me.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 05:08 PM
lebron>jordan

Amazing how this becomes less cringe worthy as time passes by.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 05:08 PM
Should have been 5 in a row. Regardless, 4 MVPs at age 28 is ridiculous.

Where does he rank with another ring and FMVP? Top 5 for me.

Cause you're not biased at all...

LeperMessiah
05-03-2013, 05:09 PM
should have 5. Derrick Rose has 1.

Such a travesty but it is what it is.

SteBO
05-03-2013, 05:11 PM
Words can't describe how much this man has improved since last year. He's unbelievable, and I'm truly blessed to have the man on my favorite team. I still can't believe it all.....

Congrats to 'Bron. Well deserved.

DumDum
05-03-2013, 05:13 PM
I used to think Rose was given his MVP. he had avg stats for a top 5 player in the game and He had a good team round him at the time and even today if he was playing but looking back at some the plays he made their no doubt in my mind Rose earn his MVP. lets Enjoy the MVPs lebron has and will get not stress the one he didn't get. We are lebron fans we are better than that

sammyvine
05-03-2013, 05:14 PM
Agreed.

lebron aint better than jordan

DumDum
05-03-2013, 05:14 PM
Words can describe how much this man has improved since last year. He's unbelievable, and I'm truly blessed to have the man on my favorite team. I still can't believe it all.....

Congrats to 'Bron. Well deserved.

+1

sammyvine
05-03-2013, 05:14 PM
Such a travesty but it is what it is.

how best record in the league...he was their best player so made it sense/

DumDum
05-03-2013, 05:15 PM
lebron aint better than jordan

give or take depends I think he's the best overall player in the last 30 + yrs but that's just me though

heyman321
05-03-2013, 05:16 PM
Best 2 way player since KG/Duncan in their primes.

LAKERMANIA
05-03-2013, 05:37 PM
yup, the rose mvp was almost as bs as the nash ones.

Almost? The Nash MVPs were the most BS MVP awards of all time

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 05:37 PM
Almost? The Nash MVPs were the most BS MVP awards of all time

maybe not of all time, would have to research that haha, but yeah, no way on earth Nash should ever have won an MVP.

DumDum
05-03-2013, 05:40 PM
great we going to question every MVP ever handed out now

sammid21
05-03-2013, 05:42 PM
Such a travesty but it is what it is.

SMH, for people saying LBJ shouldve won it over Rose. LBJ never got the defensive pressure due to having 2 other superstars. Rose had to fight thru double teams. Of course LBJs numbers are impressive, he has more room to work with than Jordan did. Jordan got triple teamed, LBJ cant because you'll leave Wade and Bosh open so logically teams let LBJ get his and try to shut down everyone else.

valade16
05-03-2013, 05:44 PM
Let's hope we don't start questioning MVPs otherwise Jordan might walk away with 10+...

KnicksorBust
05-03-2013, 05:45 PM
Words can't describe how much this man has improved since last year. He's unbelievable, and I'm truly blessed to have the man on my favorite team. I still can't believe it all.....

Congrats to 'Bron. Well deserved.

It's scary how good he is... all the physical gifts and size and now he can post-up and hit 3's? So much for the rest of us. :) He's going to pass Kareem in MVPs... the real test is if he can pass Jordan in rings. THAT is still up in the air.

numba1CHANGsta
05-03-2013, 05:48 PM
Lebron: 4 MVPS, 1 Championship

Kobe: 1 MVP, 5 Championships

The MVP award doesn't mean jack now a days

DumDum
05-03-2013, 05:54 PM
Lebron: 4 MVPS, 1 Championship

Kobe: 1 MVP, 5 Championships

The MVP award doesn't mean jack now a days

You mean rings don't matter for a Individuals career

JordansBulls
05-03-2013, 05:56 PM
Could be the first unanimous winner

Not sure how? Guys like Durant and Melo will get a vote or two. If MJ and Shaq didn't get unanimous when they led the league in the same numbers as Lebron and also even led in either scoring and steals or scoring and blocks, not sure what would make Lebron be unanimous with what KD did as well.

IKnowHoops
05-03-2013, 05:57 PM
Cause you're not biased at all... Do you have to be biased to think that? And if not, it just means that biased for Lebron really just means keeping it real.

JordansBulls
05-03-2013, 05:58 PM
it's such BS that rose won an MVP.

Congrats Bron, should be his 5th.

If you going by that then the criteria should have been the same all along and just give it to the best player that way a guy like MJ would have 9-10, Kareem 8-9, etc.

Avenged
05-03-2013, 05:59 PM
All of a sudden the MVPs don't mean anything anymore... all of a sudden.

DumDum
05-03-2013, 06:00 PM
All of a sudden the MVPs don't mean anything anymore... all of a sudden.

+1

FreakaNashur
05-03-2013, 06:04 PM
Good ***** homeboy

IKnowHoops
05-03-2013, 06:06 PM
maybe not of all time, would have to research that haha, but yeah, no way on earth Nash should ever have won an MVP.

I blame affirmative action.

SteBO
05-03-2013, 06:07 PM
Lebron: 4 MVPS, 1 Championship

Kobe: 1 MVP, 5 Championships

The MVP award doesn't mean jack now a days
Actually it does, considering one's an INDIVIDUAL award, and the other a TEAM award. But go on ahead and continue to push your ridiculous agenda. LeBron's better, that's that.....

IKnowHoops
05-03-2013, 06:08 PM
Let's hope we don't start questioning MVPs otherwise Jordan might walk away with 10+...

This. Jordan got the raw end too so, its all good. At the end of the day Lebron will have deserved more MVP's than he received just like Mike.

Slug3
05-03-2013, 06:19 PM
If you going by that then the criteria should have been the same all along and just give it to the best player that way a guy like MJ would have 9-10, Kareem 8-9, etc.

And honestly Jordan should have gotten more.

OceanSpray
05-03-2013, 06:24 PM
4th MVP, hope he finishes it strong this year and grabs that second ring. MVP doesn't mean anything to James at this point. As silly as it seems, rings is the ultimate symbol of a champion.

More-Than-Most
05-03-2013, 06:30 PM
Agreed he should have 5 and that rose MVP was ********... The sad part is he will likely get snubbed next year because he will put up a similar season to this but and it will get watered down. This guy should win the mvp every year and its not close.

mngopher35
05-03-2013, 06:32 PM
SMH, for people saying LBJ shouldve won it over Rose. LBJ never got the defensive pressure due to having 2 other superstars. Rose had to fight thru double teams. Of course LBJs numbers are impressive, he has more room to work with than Jordan did. Jordan got triple teamed, LBJ cant because you'll leave Wade and Bosh open so logically teams let LBJ get his and try to shut down everyone else.

I don't get this at all. His stats went down when he went to miami, which is the opposite of what your saying. Lebron was a hated player at the time, and tons of people were rooting against miami. It would have been very hard for him to win the MVP that year. The best player in the league doesn't always win the MVP, and Rose was a great player and story that year.

OceanSpray
05-03-2013, 06:36 PM
Haha, Rose only got the votes because everyone thought LeBron took the easy way out and hated that. If we were being fair, Rose wouldn't even come close. Look at how Rose's team is doing without him. Imagine if Cleveland didn't have LeBron... Oh wait! You know how it ends.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 06:39 PM
I don't get this at all. His stats went down when he went to miami, which is the opposite of what your saying. Lebron was a hated player at the time, and tons of people were rooting against miami. It would have been very hard for him to win the MVP that year. The best player in the league doesn't always win the MVP, and Rose was a great player and story that year.

There have been approximately 345 threads on this subject starting when Rose won it. It was one of the weaker MVP seasons in history, along with Iverson, Unseld, and Nash. Great story, LeBron was the bad guy nobody wanted to succeed, and that's that.

We can see that as good as Rose is, the real MVP of the Bulls is Thibs. His defense has even allowed them to stay in a high playoff seed minus Rose, and so many Chicago fans act as if because he doesn't have another perennial all star next to him, he doesn't have plenty of help to compete at the highest level.

OceanSpray
05-03-2013, 06:42 PM
There have been approximately 345 threads on this subject starting when Rose won it. It was one of the weaker MVP seasons in history, along with Iverson, Unseld, and Nash. Great story, LeBron was the bad guy nobody wanted to succeed, and that's that.

We can see that as good as Rose is, the real MVP of the Bulls is Thibs. His defense has even allowed them to stay in a high playoff seed minus Rose, and so many Chicago fans act as if because he doesn't have another perennial all star next to him, he doesn't have plenty of help to compete at the highest level.

To add to that, I find it amazing how Gibson, Noah, Boozer, and Deng are often unnoticed when it comes to Rose leading the team. I can name 10 other players who could probably achieve just as much, or more success than Rose on that squad.

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 06:42 PM
Okay enough blasting Rose more appreciating Bron. The Rose MVP argument has been beaten on too many occasions nothing is going to change that accept it, move on and appreciate Bron for what he's doing. Had the Heat gotten a better record to the Bulls in 2011 LeBron would have 5. They didn't Rose won the award despite not being a better player but guess what history has taught us that that exactly how the NBA MVP award works. Rose's team had a superior record with less help than Bron I think anyone rational minded NBA fan can appreciate that even though they think the award should have been Bron's.

Swashcuff
05-03-2013, 06:45 PM
To add to that, I find it amazing how Gibson, Noah, Boozer, and Deng are often unnoticed when it comes to Rose leading the team. I can name 10 other players who could probably achieve just as much, or more success than Rose on that squad.

You place Dwight on the 10-11 Heat and they probably win 60 games. That point makes absolutely no sense.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 06:47 PM
To add to that, I find it amazing how Gibson, Noah, Boozer, and Deng are often unnoticed when it comes to Rose leading the team. I can name 10 other players who could probably achieve just as much, or more success than Rose on that squad.

you replace Westbrook with Rose on the Thunder, they still win the west. Elite players are elite players. But at this point, LeBron has been the best player in the game for half a decade now.

VCaintdead17
05-03-2013, 07:07 PM
Belinelli snubbed YET AGAIN

Riodagoat
05-03-2013, 07:16 PM
Discuss what? This debate has been over several weeks ago.
Nobody was even close.

ThunderousDemon
05-03-2013, 07:22 PM
Discuss what? This debate has been over several weeks ago.
Nobody was even close.

RIO DA GOAT.

Ya son, dis b dat real shyt boy.

no wat I sayin. SHEEEEEET BOOOOOieEEEE!!!

zn23
05-03-2013, 07:43 PM
Well deserved.

LeBron should have 5 straight MVPs.

Rose was one of the worst MVP selections of all time. LeBron had a better year. When they met in the playoffs LeBron discredited him. Also look at what happened to the Cavs when he left... The team won 19 games. Yes he is that important to a team. They haven't recovered since.

zn23
05-03-2013, 07:46 PM
lebron>jordan


Congrats to probably the greatest player to ever play the game. The man is a monster. Well deserved.

LOL, stop before you embarrass yourselves.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 07:48 PM
lebron>jordan

How quickly they forget...

Cubby
05-03-2013, 07:54 PM
:laugh:

Rose always comes up somehow, some way.

If other posters were doing the same thing about LeBron, it gets deleted.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 07:57 PM
If Rose didn't have a significant impact, then explain why the **** our offensive ranks go from top ten with him all the way to the bottom without him?

Yeah, undeserving MVP my ****ing ***.

Bruno
05-03-2013, 07:57 PM
Might as well say the best two-way player ever. He has a very good case for it. He's been one of the top vote getters in the DPOY last 5 years, twice being 2nd in the ballot. And his versatility on defense adds more in the argument.

not better than MJ.

JordansBulls
05-03-2013, 08:00 PM
Might as well say the best two-way player ever. He has a very good case for it. He's been one of the top vote getters in the DPOY last 5 years, twice being 2nd in the ballot. And his versatility on defense adds more in the argument.

He is a good defender but being second in DPOY with the crop of defenders now in the league doesn't mean a hell of a lot when you are competing against prime Payton, Pippen, MJ, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Mutombo, Mourning. I know Marc Gasol or Serge Ibaka ain't winning DPOY in the 80's or 90's.

More-Than-Most
05-03-2013, 08:15 PM
not better than MJ.

Not Yet.... Will end up 1 and 2 when all is said and done. He could end up better than MJ and is already better than Kobe in my opinion.

Heediot
05-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Normally the media looks to give it to another player. James was just too good to pass up.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 08:27 PM
Do you have to be biased to think that? And if not, it just means that biased for Lebron really just means keeping it real.

If you think that if he retired immediately after that he'd be top 5, then somethings wrong.

Bruno
05-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Not Yet.... Will end up 1 and 2 when all is said and done. He could end up better than MJ and is already better than Kobe in my opinion.

he's peaked out higher than Kobe, but if he retired right now he wouldn't have had a better career. kobe has had a better career to date. he still has him in accolades and cumulative stats by a large margin. he'll probably catch kobe in overall career once he's matched him in years. but right now, no.

he won't pass MJ. he just doesn't have the storyline to get it done. the decision and the 2011 nba finals just won't allow it.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Also, I disagree with the premise that Nash didn't "deserve" his MVPs.

Clippersfan86
05-03-2013, 08:31 PM
Honestly if Lebron can win at least 3-4 rings.. he will likely go down as THE GOAT.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 08:32 PM
If Rose didn't have a significant impact, then explain why the **** our offensive ranks go from top ten with him all the way to the bottom without him?

Yeah, undeserving MVP my ****ing ***.

Lol who says Rose doesn't have a significant impact? He's just not in the D12/Bron/KD/Cp3 tier.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 08:33 PM
Honestly if Lebron can win at least 3-4 rings.. he will likely go down as THE GOAT.

Oh God.

mngopher35
05-03-2013, 08:38 PM
Come on guys, there is a long way to go before we compare his career to jordans. Lets let him enter the top 10 (comfortably) first.

phantasyyy
05-03-2013, 08:44 PM
Haha, Rose only got the votes because everyone thought LeBron took the easy way out and hated that. If we were being fair, Rose wouldn't even come close. Look at how Rose's team is doing without him. Imagine if Cleveland didn't have LeBron... Oh wait! You know how it ends.

If you don't consider that the easy way to get at title, that what else is there? At the time, I recall Wade was pretty much considered the next best player in the L, top 3 if anything (kobe). And thats not even adding in Chris bosh, and even though he gets clowned on, dude still was able to be a cornerstone for a franchise..


he's peaked out higher than Kobe, but if he retired right now he wouldn't have had a better career. kobe has had a better career to date. he still has him in accolades and cumulative stats by a large margin. he'll probably catch kobe in overall career once he's matched him in years. but right now, no.

he won't pass MJ. he just doesn't have the storyline to get it done. the decision and the 2011 nba finals just won't allow it.

Totally agree with bolded part. IMO he tarnished his legacy by having to join another superstar's team even though he became the best player on that team.. You just don't do that...GOAT? :confused:

zn23
05-03-2013, 08:53 PM
lebron>jordan


Not Yet.... Will end up 1 and 2 when all is said and done. He could end up better than MJ and is already better than Kobe in my opinion.

Well it's a possibility. He is the closest to MJ.

What will always hold LeBron back will those two awful finals performances. The first finals performance when his team got swept I gave him a pass cause he had a bad team and he was very young, like 21 or so.

But his 2nd finals performances against the Mavericks was so god awful, that it will always be one of those things holding back his legacy when it pertains to comparing himself to MJ. Cause MJ never performed that badly in the Finals. LeBron also doesn't have any excuses for that performance because he had Wade and Bosh on his team.

bucketss
05-03-2013, 08:53 PM
If you don't consider that the easy way to get at title, that what else is there? At the time, I recall Wade was pretty much considered the next best player in the L, top 3 if anything (kobe). And thats not even adding in Chris bosh, and even though he gets clowned on, dude still was able to be a cornerstone for a franchise..



Totally agree with bolded part. IMO he tarnished his legacy by having to join another superstar's team even though he became the best player on that team.. You just don't do that...GOAT? :confused:

staying in cleveland would have tarnished it even more - lol dude was never winning a championship there. by the time they can get proper pieces he would be starting his decline.

he looked for help because his team wasn't giving him that.. what truly tarnished his career and took him out of possibly being better than jordan was the 2011 finals performance.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 08:56 PM
not better than MJ.

Agreed, but isn't the idea getting less and less offensive to hear? He is 28, and while I had stated a couple years ago he had a 5% chance of catching Jordan, its growing man.

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 08:57 PM
Come on guys, there is a long way to go before we compare his career to jordans. Lets let him enter the top 10 (comfortably) first.

If the Heat win the title, and Bron wins Finals MVP, you don't think he jets straight into the top 10, comfortably? At age 28...

Bruno
05-03-2013, 09:01 PM
Agreed, but isn't the idea getting less and less offensive to hear? He is 28, and while I had stated a couple years ago he had a 5% chance of catching Jordan, its growing man.

yeah, less offensive. but i still come from the camp that he has to rack titles for it to even be a competition. it's still 6-1 in favor of MJ. that's a steep hill for a player who's gona be 29 within the year.

LBJ is an all-time great, no doubt about it. I just think that MJ has that perfect story-line that will be nearly impossibly to be eclipsed.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 09:02 PM
Agreed, but isn't the idea getting less and less offensive to hear? He is 28, and while I had stated a couple years ago he had a 5% chance of catching Jordan, its growing man.

Yep, up until this point MJ has always been better/on par with Bron (at the same age). At age 28 the comparisons shakes more towards Brons end of the spectrum.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jamesle01&y1=2013&p2=jordami01&y2=1992

At this point, he just needs the hardware to compare and 4-5 more years of elite status and then I think it becomes a legit debate.

Shammyguy3
05-03-2013, 09:06 PM
Haha, Rose only got the votes because everyone thought LeBron took the easy way out and hated that. If we were being fair, Rose wouldn't even come close. Look at how Rose's team is doing without him. Imagine if Cleveland didn't have LeBron... Oh wait! You know how it ends.

Except that this argument has no place for the discussion. We aren't comparing Lebron's value to CLE when Rose won the MVP in 2010/11. We're comparing Lebron's value to the Heat that year, not any previous seasons.

Plus, this year's Bulls is nowhere near the same roster as that Bulls team in 2010/11. That year, Boozer missed 23 games. Noah missed 34 games. Keith Bogans was the starter. There was no secondary ball handler. Kurt Thomas at age 38 played 1,178 minutes (almost 200 more than Omer Asik, who was a rookie). Nate Robinson wasn't there, Jimmy Butler wasn't there, Kirk Hinrich wasn't there.

Completely inaccurate to say "Look at the Bulls this year!" to discredit Rose's MVP campaign two seasons ago.

Well deserved.

LeBron should have 5 straight MVPs.

Rose was one of the worst MVP selections of all time. LeBron had a better year. When they met in the playoffs LeBron discredited him. Also look at what happened to the Cavs when he left... The team won 19 games. Yes he is that important to a team. They haven't recovered since.

The MVP has no bearing on what an individual does in previous seasons on different teams. It's only for that single season. If you want to discredit Rose's value and discredit him winning the MVP, bring up how Lebron was more valuable to the Heat winning than Rose was to the Bulls winning, and please only bring up the 2010/11 season.

mngopher35
05-03-2013, 09:09 PM
If the Heat win the title, and Bron wins Finals MVP, you don't think he jets straight into the top 10, comfortably? At age 28...

I do think gets into top 10, but I think there would be some reasonable fans who still have him borderline or just outside of top 10 (mostly due to longevity). Unanimously might have been a better word? I'm just saying at this moment he isn't in the top ten and is only a little more than halfway through his career (roughly). No need to start making those GOAT comparisons yet is all I'm saying.

ChildishGambino
05-03-2013, 09:10 PM
why does this have to be turned into a debate about Rose? Just appreciate the crazy season LeBron had.

THE MTL
05-03-2013, 09:16 PM
How exciting.. Lebron with another MVP and likely NBA title.. We can expect these same results for the next 5+ years, its like watching a bad re-run over and over and over and over. What a joke of a "sport".. more like a WWE match

You're a fool if u dont appreciate and understand greatness! This ain't no planned WWE match BS. It called watching the greatest basketball player on earth!

Hawkeye15
05-03-2013, 09:17 PM
I do think gets into top 10, but I think there would be some reasonable fans who still have him borderline or just outside of top 10 (mostly due to longevity). Unanimously might have been a better word? I'm just saying at this moment he isn't in the top ten and is only a little more than halfway through his career (roughly). No need to start making those GOAT comparisons yet is all I'm saying.

If the Heat win it all, and Bron is the Finals MVP, I can't see a possible reasonable case why he doesn't enter the top 10.

Facts:

4 MVP's (only Russell, Wilt, Jordan, and Kareem are with him)
5 statistical seasons that are in the top 12-15 ever.
2 championship
2 finals MVPs
7 all NBA 1st teams
5 all NBA defense 1st team

so many more I can list, but these are the jist

bucketss
05-03-2013, 09:22 PM
How exciting.. Lebron with another MVP and likely NBA title.. We can expect these same results for the next 5+ years, its like watching a bad re-run over and over and over and over. What a joke of a "sport".. more like a WWE match

i have a solution, why don't you just stop watching it?? i mean we can really use less nba trolls like you.

i don't think any other player can turn grown men into a menstruating female. smh.

LakersMaster24
05-03-2013, 09:30 PM
Congrats to Lebron well deserved.

However, if you think Lebron is already better or is going to be better than Jordan then you might as well tie yourself to a railroad track. Pathetic how much grown *** men can dick ride Lebron.

mngopher35
05-03-2013, 09:41 PM
If the Heat win it all, and Bron is the Finals MVP, I can't see a possible reasonable case why he doesn't enter the top 10.

Facts:

4 MVP's (only Russell, Wilt, Jordan, and Kareem are with him)
5 statistical seasons that are in the top 12-15 ever.
2 championship
2 finals MVPs
7 all NBA 1st teams
5 all NBA defense 1st team

so many more I can list, but these are the jist

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan. These are the guys I see in most people's top 10 and with a mix of accomplishments stats and longevity would all have an argument to be ahead of him.

I never got to see russell play and can only go off of the small amount of games I have seen and everything that has been written etc. To me he is number 10 and Lebron would surpass him, but I can totally understand someone disagreeing. Bird is currently at my number 9 position due to lack of longevity and Lebron would be right there with him to me. Once again it isn't totally obvious when these rankings are so subjective (some have bird top 5 so Lebron wouldn't even get close to them). Kobe is at 8 and I don't think Lebron would be ahead of him yet. So yes to me he would enter the top 10, at 9 or 10. This doesn't seem like a completely 100% obvious choice to me though, where almost everyone agrees (I guess I could be wrong though).

With that said it is still a long way from just entering the top 10 to making that push up to GOAT. At the end of the year let's see if they win and then discuss top 10 rankings. A few years down the road let's see if it is reasonable to start making comparisons to MJ. I just don't see the point in calling him the GOAT right now. If you want to claim he has a chance then go ahead. It is a very small chance, but it is not completely out of the question yet imo. There is just no need to go around saying Lebron is GOAT right now, so early in his career.

justinnum1
05-03-2013, 10:11 PM
Congrats to Lebron well deserved.

However, if you think Lebron is already better or is going to be better than Jordan then you might as well tie yourself to a railroad track. Pathetic how much grown *** men can dick ride Lebron.

It's ok bro. Kobe will be back.

ragee
05-03-2013, 10:19 PM
The best 2 way player the NBA has seen since Kobe in his prime

Kobe and duncan belongs in the same era and I consider Duncan a better two way player than Kobe...

Anyway, I hate Lebron but he deserves it... It should be unanimous because he was a beast in the regular season...

ThaDubs
05-03-2013, 10:22 PM
It's ok bro. Kobe will be back.

I think this was a joke.

naps
05-03-2013, 10:23 PM
not better than MJ.

Debatable. LeBron has better defensive ratings. And while Jordan was amazing on that end LeBron is more versatile. His length and strength allow him to defend taller power players which can't be said for Jordan. But like I said it's debatable and you can't go wrong with either.

EDIT: Bruno, In no way, form, or shape I didn't mean to say LeBron is better than Jordan already. He has to earn so many accolades to enter that discussion. What I was saying LeBron peak as a TWO way player is arguably the best. Just wanted to clear it up if there was any confusion lol.

ThaDubs
05-03-2013, 10:27 PM
Debatable. LeBron has better defensive ratings. And while Jordan was amazing on that end LeBron is more versatile. His length and strength allow him to defend taller power players which can't be said for Jordan. But like I said it's debatable and you can't go wrong with either.

This ^

Jordan's defensive numbers are somewhat deceiving if you're comparing him with LeBron on that end of the floor. While Jordan was a spectacular defensive player, LeBron's defensive numbers don't tell the whole story. LeBron is able to defend multiple positions because like you said he is long and extremely powerful. You could make a good case for both players.

naps
05-03-2013, 10:28 PM
he won't pass MJ. he just doesn't have the storyline to get it done. the decision and the 2011 nba finals just won't allow it.

I agree he won't pass MJ in terms of being the GOAT. But if he wins equal or more then how could you really argue against it? It doesn't seem plausible but who knows.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 10:41 PM
If Rose didn't have a significant impact, then explain why the **** our offensive ranks go from top ten with him all the way to the bottom without him?

Yeah, undeserving MVP my ****ing ***.

Lol who says Rose doesn't have a significant impact? He's just not in the D12/Bron/KD/Cp3 tier.

That's just pure ignorance, I'm sorry.

ThaDubs
05-03-2013, 10:47 PM
That's just pure ignorance, I'm sorry.

He's totally correct. The only guy you could argue doesn't belong on that list is D12.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 10:54 PM
That's just pure ignorance, I'm sorry.

Nah.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 10:56 PM
That's just pure ignorance, I'm sorry.

He's totally correct. The only guy you could argue doesn't belong on that list is D12.

Well explain why our offensive numbers take a complete nosedive when he's not playing? Hell, our team has BETTER offensive players now than when he won MVP. All you have to do is watch the games and see how inconsistent we are from game to game on the offensive end. The reason why that is is because Derrick Rose is the only guy who can effectively AND efficiently create not only for himself, but others as well. Not to mention, he takes the tough shots when plays break down and gets easy buckets when our team is struggling offensively. Not to mention he is a very good defender for his position.

Also, you can't ignore the fact that both Boozer and Noah missed damn near half of the season and never had any time to develop any chemistry. Oh, and Keith Bogans started, which pretty much gave Rose a double team most of the game due to Bogans's inability to do jack ****.

If you still think he didn't deserve it after he carried a team to the best record despite the team suffering from significant injuries, I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that you must hold some sort of bias.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 10:57 PM
It's amazing how one season off and people forget how good Derrick was.

Unreal.

ThaDubs
05-03-2013, 11:00 PM
It's amazing how one season off and people forget how good Derrick was.

Unreal.

I love Derrick Rose and Bulls are my second team (lots of family in Chicago and always loved the Bulls) so I have no bias against you or anything it's just my opinion man.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 11:00 PM
Well explain why our offensive numbers take a complete nosedive when he's not playing? Hell, our team has BETTER offensive players now than when he won MVP. All you have to do is watch the games and see how inconsistent we are from game to game on the offensive end. The reason why that is is because Derrick Rose is the only guy who can effectively AND efficiently create not only for himself, but others as well. Not to mention, he takes the tough shots when plays break down and gets easy buckets when our team is struggling offensively. Not to mention he is a very good defender for his position.

Also, you can't ignore the fact that both Boozer and Noah missed damn near half of the season and never had any time to develop any chemistry. Oh, and Keith Bogans started, which pretty much gave Rose a double team most of the game due to Bogans's inability to do jack ****.

If you still think he didn't deserve it after he carried a team to the best record despite the team suffering from significant injuries, I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that you must hold some sort of bias.

Skimmed through the post, realized we're not on the same page. I'm not talking about Derricks MVP, I'm talking about overall. He's not as good as KD/Bron/Dwight/Paul.

3RDASYSTEM
05-03-2013, 11:02 PM
Since some on here are speaking on how BRON left the CAVS to go join WADE's team check this out

MAGIC and BEAN's 5 rings shouldn't count since they didn't want to join CHI or CHA teams who wanted to draft them but they chose LA or back to school/overseas/next draft, same with ALCINDOR he wanted to leave BUCKS after BIG O retired and they fell off

BRON gets a pass for taking CAVS to ship round and then being a free agent and making wise choice to win now and later

so its like BRON learned from those so called winners 7yrs later and took advantage of it, boo hoo

and HAWK15 anytime you win 49 and 56games(sat out last 5) with a core of SNOW/MCKIE and you finish runner up yr before actual winning MVP following yr is no where near as bad as a NASH or ROSE type, NASH nor ROSE couldn't lead a more talented squad to FINALS trip, plus CHI had best record with the MVP out, PHI could barely crack 70pts when AI didn't play

I've said it over and over, had NASH/CP3 or any other PG in league history had to switch to SG and shoot 30-40x a game for they squad to compete they couldn't do it, AI could and did it for years and its only a handful of players of any position who can do it in history, no PG had AI's arsenal on OFF. end, he could run off screens and shoot/attack or just get anywhere on the court without a screen or play, and he was a ball hawk on defense, a gambling type but no different than the past league leaders in steals or blocks, its all a gamble, some are higher or lower pct, but its all a risk from shooting to passing to coaching, or is it not a gamble if you execute?

finishing 2nd to SHAQ and then beating out DUNCAN/SHAQ for MVP following year is nothing of awful at all, hell ROSE-NASH were not even close to being MVP's yr prior before winning it

ROSE had more MVP potential since he was ROY, but NASH was a backup to the player who some feel got robbed in 02-03' MVP races, KIDD who was also co ROY, with HILL

MVP's are ROY type allnba day 1 players, not 8-10yr later type players who came out of nowhere or developed

ROSE-NASH won because of the new age agenda for mvp criteria(similar to the PER-WS% poppycock)...the best player on the best team(w-l record), life of nba politics

numba1CHANGsta
05-03-2013, 11:04 PM
Actually it does, considering one's an INDIVIDUAL award, and the other a TEAM award. But go on ahead and continue to push your ridiculous agenda. LeBron's better, that's that.....

Theyre both TEAM awards, the best player from the best TEAM is chosen to be the MVP, the best INDIVIDUAL player in the NBA doesnt always win the MVP because of the team they have or what place they finish and that's that.....

And don't give me that argument of "well without LeBron the Heat are a .500 team" which you can say the same for any team when you take out their best player for Ex. Kobe, Rose, Rondo and Westbrook. Only reason why the Heat finished first is cuz of a weak conference and a bunch of bandwagon role players joining the Heat.

bucketss
05-03-2013, 11:07 PM
Theyre both TEAM awards, the best player from the best TEAM is chosen to be the MVP, the best INDIVIDUAL player in the NBA doesnt always win the MVP because of the team they have or what place they finish and that's that.....

And don't give me that argument of "well without LeBron the Heat are a .500 team" which you can say the same for any team when you take out their best player for Ex. Kobe, Rose, Rondo and Westbrook. Only reason why the Heat finished first is cuz of a weak conference and a bunch of bandwagon role players joining the Heat.

or maybe because they have two top 5 players on their team but what the hell do i know.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 11:09 PM
Well explain why our offensive numbers take a complete nosedive when he's not playing? Hell, our team has BETTER offensive players now than when he won MVP. All you have to do is watch the games and see how inconsistent we are from game to game on the offensive end. The reason why that is is because Derrick Rose is the only guy who can effectively AND efficiently create not only for himself, but others as well. Not to mention, he takes the tough shots when plays break down and gets easy buckets when our team is struggling offensively. Not to mention he is a very good defender for his position.

Also, you can't ignore the fact that both Boozer and Noah missed damn near half of the season and never had any time to develop any chemistry. Oh, and Keith Bogans started, which pretty much gave Rose a double team most of the game due to Bogans's inability to do jack ****.

If you still think he didn't deserve it after he carried a team to the best record despite the team suffering from significant injuries, I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that you must hold some sort of bias.

Skimmed through the post, realized we're not on the same page. I'm not talking about Derricks MVP, I'm talking about overall. He's not as good as KD/Bron/Dwight/Paul.

Actually, we are on the same page. The fact that we are much worse with a better team proves his impact.

Just because he isn't as good as those players (at this point he's better than Dwight) doesn't mean he doesn't have the same impact as those players. And our current deficiencies are masked by his ability to create for himself and everyone else at an elite level.. Any time a play breaks down, the current possession is lost because nobody can recover for our team.

Denying that his impact isn't on their level is asinine, especially since the four players you mentioned have another very good/elite player on their team.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 11:12 PM
Actually, we are on the same page. The fact that we are much worse with a better team proves his impact.

Just because he isn't as good as those players (at this point he's better than Dwight) doesn't mean he doesn't have the same impact as those players. And our current deficiencies are masked by his ability to create for himself and everyone else at an elite level.. Any time a play breaks down, the current possession is lost because nobody can recover for our team.

Denying that his impact isn't on their level is asinine, especially since the four players you mentioned have another very good/elite player on their team.

I said he's not in their tier, which is true. You called me ignorant for it, so therefore I doubt we're on the same page.

Also how can Rose be better than Dwight? Because Dwight played like **** (relative to what he normally produces) this year? Rose didn't even play.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 11:13 PM
It's amazing how one season off and people forget how good Derrick was.

Unreal.

I love Derrick Rose and Bulls are my second team (lots of family in Chicago and always loved the Bulls) so I have no bias against you or anything it's just my opinion man.

Well I'm sorry but it's wrong. Rose is the focal point of the offense. Without him, the offense is terribly inconsistent and thus our team isn't nearly enough to be a contender. He has no other ball handlers on the team to relieve him of the double teams and yet he still finds ways to score/help his teammates score.

If you want to keep your opinion, then so be it. But it is untrue.

Cubby
05-03-2013, 11:16 PM
Actually, we are on the same page. The fact that we are much worse with a better team proves his impact.

Just because he isn't as good as those players (at this point he's better than Dwight) doesn't mean he doesn't have the same impact as those players. And our current deficiencies are masked by his ability to create for himself and everyone else at an elite level.. Any time a play breaks down, the current possession is lost because nobody can recover for our team.

Denying that his impact isn't on their level is asinine, especially since the four players you mentioned have another very good/elite player on their team.

I said he's not in their tier, which is true. You called me ignorant for it, so therefore I doubt we're on the same page.

Also how can Rose be better than Dwight? Because Dwight played like **** (relative to what he normally produces) this year? Rose didn't even play.

I'm talking about impact. Value. You know, the V in MVP? He has the same impact as every one of those players. The Bulls can't hope to get out of the second round without him.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 11:29 PM
Since it seems as if skimming wasn't enough, I apologize for not taking your stance seriously. I'll answer your post in full though.


Well explain why our offensive numbers take a complete nosedive when he's not playing?

We're talking on/off court splits? Or for the duration of the season? I'll go with the latter. In any event we both know that a steady diet of Kirk at this stage of his career, Boozer Noah, Deng and *shudder* Nate Robinson wouldn't produce an elite offensive team. However they hung their hats on defense which more or less has remained elite. PGs have the least impact on a teams defense, so Rose absence at least on that end isn't really missed.


Hell, our team has BETTER offensive players now than when he won MVP. All you have to do is watch the games and see how inconsistent we are from game to game on the offensive end. The reason why that is is because Derrick Rose is the only guy who can effectively AND efficiently create not only for himself, but others as well. Not to mention, he takes the tough shots when plays break down and gets easy buckets when our team is struggling offensively. Not to mention he is a very good defender for his position.


Which players are you comparing? And the Bulls were always an inconsistent offensive team, their effort on D remains constant.


Also, you can't ignore the fact that both Boozer and Noah missed damn near half of the season and never had any time to develop any chemistry. Oh, and Keith Bogans started, which pretty much gave Rose a double team most of the game due to Bogans's inability to do jack ****.

Some of it is chemistry, some of it is inability. Deron/Cp3 are able to get players easier shots chemistry of not. I don't think that Deron is necessarily better than him but Cp3 sure as **** is. Only thing offensive wise Rose probably has on Cp3 is slashing.

Regardless my comparison as stated before is based on Rose removed from the Bulls (i.e who's the better player). If I'm starting from scratch I'd take Dwight, Bron, KD and Paul over him. Why? Because they've proven they can drag rosters devoid of talent to the playoffs and compete.


If you still think he didn't deserve it after he carried a team to the best record despite the team suffering from significant injuries, I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that you must hold some sort of bias.

I don't think he "deserved" it over Dwight, but the Magic didn't have a good enough record.

b@llhog24
05-03-2013, 11:30 PM
I'm talking about impact. Value. You know, the V in MVP? He has the same impact as every one of those players. The Bulls can't hope to get out of the second round without him.

Not true. He's a lesser player in similar role to all of them except Dwight. That doesn't equate to having the same impact.

naps
05-03-2013, 11:34 PM
Only reason why the Heat finished first is cuz of a weak conference

You might wanna take that back. Check Heat's record against WC. I just educated you. Be glad. You're welcome!

EDIT: Why do only Kobephiles (Not necessarily Lakers fans) always look for ridiculous reasons to discredit LeBron? Rhetorical question.

Chrisclover
05-03-2013, 11:39 PM
Well deserved

Slug3
05-03-2013, 11:48 PM
Theyre both TEAM awards, the best player from the best TEAM is chosen to be the MVP, the best INDIVIDUAL player in the NBA doesnt always win the MVP because of the team they have or what place they finish and that's that.....

And don't give me that argument of "well without LeBron the Heat are a .500 team" which you can say the same for any team when you take out their best player for Ex. Kobe, Rose, Rondo and Westbrook. Only reason why the Heat finished first is cuz of a weak conference and a bunch of bandwagon role players joining the Heat.

Do us all a favor and go check on the Heats record against the WC and report back to all of us please. When making an argument at least know your facts.

Shammyguy3
05-03-2013, 11:55 PM
Which players are you comparing? And the Bulls were always an inconsistent offensive team, their effort on D remains constant.

Regardless my comparison as stated before is based on Rose removed from the Bulls (i.e who's the better player). If I'm starting from scratch I'd take Dwight, Bron, KD and Paul over him. Why? Because they've proven they can drag rosters devoid of talent to the playoffs and compete.

I don't think he "deserved" it over Dwight, but the Magic didn't have a good enough record.

The Bulls in 2010/11 had the 11th best ORtg at 108.3 compared to this season's 23rd ranked 103.5
The Bulls were not an inconsistent offensive team in 2010/11, and that's because of Derrick Rose.

Kevin Durant has not proven to drag any team devoid of talent to the playoffs and had that team contend. Neither has CP3 or Dwight Howard, although CP3's the closest. No team can drag a team devoid of talent and make them instant contenders outside of Lebron James (Kevin Durant might be able to, but I don't think even he can do that). Just my opinion. The only player that fits that description to me is Lebron James (since you used the word "contend.")

I would've been 100% fine with Dwight winning the MVP in 2010/11 instead of Rose.

bucketss
05-04-2013, 12:00 AM
You might wanna take that back. Check Heat's record against WC. I just educated you. Be glad. You're welcome!

EDIT: Why do only Kobephiles (Not necessarily Lakers fans) always look for ridiculous reasons to discredit LeBron? Rhetorical question.

they're pissed lebron is going to surpass kobe rather easily aha.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2013, 12:07 AM
If you think that if he retired immediately after that he'd be top 5, then somethings wrong.

I feel you, but 4mvps puts him with Jordan, Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. And those may be the top 4. He has an argument. One he may not win, but none the less an argument, especially since MVP is the greatest individual achievement a player can have, and the fact that he did it faster than any of those other 4 says something about his dominance.

b@llhog24
05-04-2013, 12:10 AM
The Bulls in 2010/11 had the 11th best ORtg at 108.3 compared to this season's 23rd ranked 103.5
The Bulls were not an inconsistent offensive team in 2010/11, and that's because of Derrick Rose.

He's talking about on court lulls, but I'm aware of where the Bulls ranked in 2010/11. But he didn't make it clear as to whether he was referring to off court splits from that season or if he's talking about them not having Rose in the lineup at all, so I wasn't gonna go in depth until he clarified himself.



Kevin Durant has not proven to drag any team devoid of talent to the playoffs and had that team contend. Neither has CP3 or Dwight Howard, although CP3's the closest. No team can drag a team devoid of talent and make them instant contenders outside of Lebron James (Kevin Durant might be able to, but I don't think even he can do that). Just my opinion. The only player that fits that description to me is Lebron James (since you used the word "contend.")

Contend was probably a bad choice of words. In context, I'm referring to the individual. The dragging to the playoffs was an "either/or" thing not necessarily meaning that they had to occur at the same time. In KDs case, Westbrook was not a star in 010. So for me he carried/dragged them to the playoffs and while he got his *** shut down. In subsequent years he's proven he can raise his level of play in the playoffs.



I would've been 100% fine with Dwight winning the MVP in 2010/11 instead of Rose.

Likewise. He was very deserving.

b@llhog24
05-04-2013, 12:11 AM
I feel you, but 4mvps puts him with Jordan, Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. And those may be the top 4. He has an argument. One he may not win, but none the less an argument, especially since MVP is the greatest individual achievement a player can have, and the fact that he did it faster than any of those other 4 says something about his dominance.

I could see him anywhere from 6-10 after that (bumping DRob out of my personal top 10).

IKnowHoops
05-04-2013, 12:18 AM
If the Heat win it all, and Bron is the Finals MVP, I can't see a possible reasonable case why he doesn't enter the top 10.

Facts:

4 MVP's (only Russell, Wilt, Jordan, and Kareem are with him)
5 statistical seasons that are in the top 12-15 ever.
2 championship
2 finals MVPs
7 all NBA 1st teams
5 all NBA defense 1st team

so many more I can list, but these are the jist

And the most important fact of all. At his best, he and Jordan have been the best ever. A career is a career, but he's shown he is possibly the most dominant player ever for at least 4 seasons. That gets you top two in my book already but I understand the career argument. I go by who was the best at there best, and right now its either Jordan or Lebron.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2013, 12:27 AM
It's amazing how one season off and people forget how good Derrick was.

Unreal.

I do agree with you. Derrick roses ability has been forgotten. He is a straight beast. I hope he comes back like AP.

tredigs
05-04-2013, 12:27 AM
And the most important fact of all. At his best, he and Jordan have been the best ever. A career is a career, but he's shown he is possibly the most dominant player ever for at least 4 seasons. That gets you top two in my book already but I understand the career argument. I go by who was the best at there best, and right now its either Jordan or Lebron.

Just to choose 1, what makes his best better than Kareem's?

tredigs
05-04-2013, 12:30 AM
Do we know when the official votes come out? I want to see if he got it unanimously.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2013, 12:34 AM
I could see him anywhere from 6-10 after that (bumping DRob out of my personal top 10).

Respect, I also have DRob in my top 10.

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:35 AM
Why do people still debate whether or not James will be the second or GOAT? It's inevitable. No one in the current top 5 is a better player than James. Achievement wise, yes, they achieved more. Skillwise? No one except Jordan can match it.

tredigs
05-04-2013, 12:37 AM
Why do people still debate whether or not James will be the second or GOAT? It's inevitable. No one in the current top 5 is a better player than James. Achievement wise, yes, they achieved more. Skillwise? No one except Jordan can match it.
Because we know the history of the game and understand that this same statement has been said over and over again about said players. A player like Kareem would absolutely DECIMATE the competition in this era.

I take back my initial comment to IknowHoops though, I truly don't care about this debate right now.

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:38 AM
Because we know the history of the game and understand that this same statement has been said over and over again about said players. A player like Kareem would absolutely DECIMATE the competition in this era.

Who did Kareem go up again? Oh yeah, not much. Who were the great players during his prime? Oh yeah, not much. No competition, just 5-6 good players going at it.

Vinny642
05-04-2013, 12:39 AM
Bron Bron

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:40 AM
Because we know the history of the game and understand that this same statement has been said over and over again about said players. A player like Kareem would absolutely DECIMATE the competition in this era.

I take back my initial comment to IknowHoops though, I truly don't care about this debate right now.

Then don't quote. You always lose anyways. You try so hard to discredit LeBron every time you can and it just backlashes against you.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2013, 12:41 AM
Just to choose 1, what makes his best better than Kareem's?

I will choose the year he won 66 games with Cleveland. How you can take a team that without you, has the worst record in the NBA to the best record is just something no other player has done. I think offensively they both do what they want to out there, and defensively they are both very disruptive. The reason why I give it to Bron is his ability to make trash players more efficient than the better players they go against. He elevates his teammates better than Kareem and thats why I give him the edge. Its very close still though I do realise that. 36 pts a game and 15-16 boards is domination.

tredigs
05-04-2013, 12:44 AM
Who did Kareem go up again? Oh yeah, not much. Who were the great players during his prime? Oh yeah, not much. No competition, just 5-6 good players going at it.
Bro, you're one of the dumbest kids who posts on this site. There is a 0% chance you will ever be wrong in your mind, and a 0% chance that you actually learn from what is being taught to you. This is why you get called a troll for most of your posts.

What LBJ does is incredible, and among the best we've seen and very unique in his own right, but this level of dominance is not.

tredigs
05-04-2013, 12:44 AM
Who did Kareem go up again? Oh yeah, not much. Who were the great players during his prime? Oh yeah, not much. No competition, just 5-6 good players going at it.
Bro, you're one of the dumbest kids who posts on this site. There is a 0% chance you will ever be wrong in your mind, and a 0% chance that you actually learn from what is being taught to you or what people can learn from eachother. This is why you get called a troll for most of your posts.

What LBJ does is incredible, and among the best we've seen and very unique in his own right, but this level of dominance is not.

"Who did Kareem go up against. Oh yeah, not much". We have to assume that's just trolling.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2013, 12:44 AM
Because we know the history of the game and understand that this same statement has been said over and over again about said players. A player like Kareem would absolutely DECIMATE the competition in this era.

I take back my initial comment to IknowHoops though, I truly don't care about this debate right now.

Sometimes going at someone just ain't worth it. I completely understand. It won't get crazy with me again though. I respect your opinion now.

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:45 AM
I will choose the year he won 66 games with Cleveland. How you can take a team that without you, has the worst record in the NBA to the best record is just something no other player has done. I think offensively they both do what they want to out there, and defensively they are both very disruptive. The reason why I give it to Bron is his ability to make trash players more efficient than the better players they go against. He elevates his teammates better than Kareem and thats why I give him the edge. Its very close still though I do realise that. 36 pts a game and 15-16 boards is domination.

50 points, 25 rebounds was dominant as well. Do you honestly think a player will ever come close to those numbers? Oscar Robertson PLAYED with Wilt and Kareem. Look at those stats and how they drop year after year. Reason? They didn't get worse, the talent pool just increased. It's no coincidence that Jordan couldn't average those numbers. Why couldn't he? There's only one answer: Crappy competition. Overrated and completely inflated.

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:47 AM
Bro, you're one of the dumbest kids who posts on this site. There is a 0% chance you will ever be wrong in your mind, and a 0% chance that you actually learn from what is being taught to you or what people can learn from eachother. This is why you get called a troll for most of your posts.

What LBJ does is incredible, and among the best we've seen and very unique in his own right, but this level of dominance is not.

"Who did Kareem go up against. Oh yeah, not much". We have to assume that's just trolling.

Why is it you can't name 10 quality players? I can name you 20 quality players who would probably dominate that era. Who calls me a troll? Those 60 year old's who have you added on your contact list? Sorry, you're nostalgic memories need to fade away. Kareem dominating this era based off what? Players are stronger, faster, and smarter. What makes you think he'll be as dominant? Based off the fact that centers are liquidated because of the league?

IKnowHoops
05-04-2013, 12:48 AM
Bro, you're one of the dumbest kids who posts on this site. There is a 0% chance you will ever be wrong in your mind, and a 0% chance that you actually learn from what is being taught to you or what people can learn from eachother. This is why you get called a troll for most of your posts.

What LBJ does is incredible, and among the best we've seen and very unique in his own right, but this level of dominance is not.

"Who did Kareem go up against. Oh yeah, not much". We have to assume that's just trolling.

I'd be willing to say that his best is top 3 with Jordan and Kareem and its all arguable for who has had the highest level of dominance. That being said, he is in my top 3 because that is what is most important to me. The best at there best means the best to me.

For example: Bo Jackson is in my top 5 RB's of all time. Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, Walter Payton, Adrian Peterson, Jim Brown. In no order right here, but if I am a coach and I want to win a game. I'm taking one of these five above the rest. I'd take Bo Jackson without hesitation over LT, Marshall Faulk, Eric Dickerson etc.

Marcus Allen has the much better career than Bo, but Bo could come fresh off of a baseball game with no training camp and take Marcus's job and you got no complaints from anyone. Because he was better. Doesnt have a better resume or career, but he was better. Wrong or right, its how I process "The best".

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 12:53 AM
I'd be willing to say that his best is top 3 with Jordan and Kareem and its all arguable for who has had the highest level of dominance. That being said, he is in my top 3 because that is what is most important to me. The best at there best means the best to me.

Compare Usain Bolt's/Michael Phelps records to those of the past at the same event. Look at the time interval difference. If that isn't proof that athletes are far superior, I don't know what is. Tredigs is an absolute fool who doesn't understand that centers aren't as dominant because of how the game is played. If Wilt put up 50/25, why couldn't Jordan put up better numbers if he is regarded as the greatest? I mean there really is only one answers.. unless you're seriously suggesting Wilt was better. Oh yeah, Oscar Robertson admits to LeBron being better than Jordan. What can you conclude?

tredigs
05-04-2013, 12:53 AM
I will choose the year he won 66 games with Cleveland. How you can take a team that without you, has the worst record in the NBA to the best record is just something no other player has done. I think offensively they both do what they want to out there, and defensively they are both very disruptive. The reason why I give it to Bron is his ability to make trash players more efficient than the better players they go against. He elevates his teammates better than Kareem and thats why I give him the edge. Its very close still though I do realise that. 36 pts a game and 15-16 boards is domination.

Did not see this but it's one of his best cases for sure. If we were looking at Kareem on a team scale, all we have to do is see where they had the 2nd worst record the year they drafted him, and 2nd best record with him as a rookie. This following his college career/3 ships that was regarded as the best of all time. Right out of the gate he was a force of nature, and it lasted for about 15 straight years (10 peak).

Just responding because I saw that you took the time, but let's just leave this as a congratulatory thread for LBJ on our part and call it a day.

lavilevi23
05-04-2013, 12:55 AM
LeBron might end up as the G.O.A.T

Well deserved..!

Chronz
05-04-2013, 01:00 AM
Bro, you're one of the dumbest kids who posts on this site. There is a 0% chance you will ever be wrong in your mind, and a 0% chance that you actually learn from what is being taught to you. This is why you get called a troll for most of your posts.

What LBJ does is incredible, and among the best we've seen and very unique in his own right, but this level of dominance is not.
You can convince a genius of his faults, but an idiot will NEVER be wrong.

Shammyguy3
05-04-2013, 01:21 AM
He's talking about on court lulls, but I'm aware of where the Bulls ranked in 2010/11. But he didn't make it clear as to whether he was referring to off court splits from that season or if he's talking about them not having Rose in the lineup at all, so I wasn't gonna go in depth until he clarified himself.



Contend was probably a bad choice of words. In context, I'm referring to the individual. The dragging to the playoffs was an "either/or" thing not necessarily meaning that they had to occur at the same time. In KDs case, Westbrook was not a star in 010. So for me he carried/dragged them to the playoffs and while he got his *** shut down. In subsequent years he's proven he can raise his level of play in the playoffs.




Likewise. He was very deserving.

Ahh i gotcha


You can convince a genius of his faults, but an idiot will NEVER be wrong.

So true

naps
05-04-2013, 02:01 AM
Then don't quote. You always lose anyways. You try so hard to discredit LeBron every time you can and it just backlashes against you.

C'mon man. Tre is not against LeBron. He just states his opinion and tries to back it up. I have seen him defending LeBron against his haters tons of times. Tre is one of the best on this site.

sammyvine
05-04-2013, 02:11 AM
Haha, Rose only got the votes because everyone thought LeBron took the easy way out and hated that. If we were being fair, Rose wouldn't even come close. Look at how Rose's team is doing without him. Imagine if Cleveland didn't have LeBron... Oh wait! You know how it ends.

Get Over it. That was 2 years ago.
I'm sure your god lebron has gotten over it and he even took rose winning it well.
How long are you going to cry for because rose stole an MVP from lebron?

Davidgta1
05-04-2013, 02:15 AM
He'll have 8 by the time he's done

Pierre The Poet
05-04-2013, 02:51 AM
No argument here...he's the best

BKdoubleStacker
05-04-2013, 02:51 AM
Not surprising to see bucketss and naps in here baiting lakers fans while living on lebrons gentials

I dont know if ive ever seen 2 bigger biased bandwagoners in my life

absolutely annoying, lebron deserved it, now stop crying. Its funny how you guys are always attacking anyone who doesnt suck lebron off

Pierre The Poet
05-04-2013, 02:57 AM
50 points, 25 rebounds was dominant as well. Do you honestly think a player will ever come close to those numbers? Oscar Robertson PLAYED with Wilt and Kareem. Look at those stats and how they drop year after year. Reason? They didn't get worse, the talent pool just increased. It's no coincidence that Jordan couldn't average those numbers. Why couldn't he? There's only one answer: Crappy competition. Overrated and completely inflated.


At some point people gotta realize that it's impossible to compare, which just makes it a waste of time. There is no way of telling if someone like Lebron is better than Jordan, there's nothing real to measure it by...even measuring it by championships is unfair because everyone had different teammates and different opponents and a different path

BKdoubleStacker
05-04-2013, 03:02 AM
At some point people gotta realize that it's impossible to compare, which just makes it a waste of time. There is no way of telling if someone like Lebron is better than Jordan, there's nothing real to measure it by...even measuring it by championships is unfair because everyone had different teammates and different opponents and a different path

Jordan was filthy in the playoffs/finals, where the competition was much more fierce IMO

he went 6/6

while im not saying he needs to get 6 rings, what Jordan did was just legendary

DumDum
05-04-2013, 03:06 AM
Great PSD found a way to poop all over this Glorious occasion

amos1er
05-04-2013, 03:09 AM
Well deserved.

Still not in the class of Kobe, Magic, Bird, or MJ IMO. Note I said IMO so please take that for what it is...my opinion. Don't need to see globs of Hollinger stats as rebuttals...I won't respond.

amos1er
05-04-2013, 03:12 AM
You can convince a genius of his faults, but an idiot will NEVER be wrong.

Great quote.

DumDum
05-04-2013, 03:20 AM
Well deserved.

Still not in the class of Chamberlain,Magic, Bird, or MJ IMO. Note I said IMO so please take that for what it is...my opinion. Don't need to see globs of Hollinger stats as rebuttals...I won't respond.

I fix it for you ,your welcome

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-04-2013, 04:04 AM
well deserved. Durant has the best non-mvp season, which must be TOUGH!!

naps
05-04-2013, 04:56 AM
Oh yea, glad to see the true legends LeBron joins with his 4th MVP. Kareem, Jordan, Wilt, Russell. Most people have those 4 in their top 5. People, those who didn't see it before, can now see a clearer picture of where LeBron is heading to. I guess it's a good company.



Not surprising to see bucketss and naps in here baiting lakers fans while living on lebrons gentials

I dont know if ive ever seen 2 bigger biased bandwagoners in my life

absolutely annoying, lebron deserved it, now stop crying. Its funny how you guys are always attacking anyone who doesnt suck lebron off

Where the **** did I bait Lakers fans? Are you that hurt that LeBron is so good at basketball?

DaLakerz Rulz
05-04-2013, 07:48 AM
Stern rigged the MVP award again and you are all falling for it. What a joke.

RaiderLakersA's
05-04-2013, 09:02 AM
Predictable and boring. I expect nothing less for the next 4 years.

Swashcuff
05-04-2013, 09:26 AM
Bro, you're one of the dumbest kids who posts on this site. There is a 0% chance you will ever be wrong in your mind, and a 0% chance that you actually learn from what is being taught to you. This is why you get called a troll for most of your posts.

What LBJ does is incredible, and among the best we've seen and very unique in his own right, but this level of dominance is not.

Absolutely true. I have no idea why these dudes come to a forum if they believe that they can never be wrong about anything.

bucketss
05-04-2013, 09:36 AM
Predictable and boring. I expect nothing less for the next 4 years.

theres nothing boring about watching king james dominate the league and winning mvps, slap yo self!

Swashcuff
05-04-2013, 09:36 AM
Stern rigged the MVP award again and you are all falling for it. What a joke.

OMG I can't believe I fell for that. Please tell us more oh wise one.

justinnum1
05-04-2013, 09:37 AM
Stern rigged the MVP award again and you are all falling for it. What a joke.

:dance:

bucketss
05-04-2013, 09:55 AM
Stern rigged the MVP award again and you are all falling for it. What a joke.

LOL, is anyone surprised that this is coming from a laker fan(kobephile) lol you guys are so paranoid about king james, aha,

FlakeyFool
05-04-2013, 10:01 AM
Bosh

BklynKnicks3
05-04-2013, 10:12 AM
a flat out disgrace handing out mvps for a guy playing on a all star team. Saw it coming thoe

bucketss
05-04-2013, 10:14 AM
a flat out disgrace handing out mvps for a guy playing on a all star team. Saw it coming thoe

what happened to melo past three games?? lol i thought he was the 2nd best player in the league.. you would think he would be a little more of a factor for his team.

BklynKnicks3
05-04-2013, 10:18 AM
its called his shoulder in case u aint see. He came through when it mattered. If u look at any shooting slump Mlo ever had that was mroe then 1 game its always injury. Only now he cant afford to miss time its the playoffs

bucketss
05-04-2013, 10:21 AM
its called his shoulder in case u aint see. He came through when it mattered. If u look at any shooting slump Mlo ever had that was mroe then 1 game its always injury. Only now he cant afford to miss time its the playoffs

lol nice excuse.

BklynKnicks3
05-04-2013, 10:24 AM
facts u have a shoulder pulled out ur socket n lets see if u shooting touch is the same

Teeboy1487
05-04-2013, 10:24 AM
MVP equals being awarded to the best player on the best team. I'm glad Lebron is doing it justice, but I still hate the way MVP is handed out. I thought Lebron had a lot of help. He's valuable no question and the best on the planet, but it helps to have Wade, Bosh, and historic shooters in your back pocket making the game easier for him. This is a team award to me now. Trust me, it's not sour grapes Lebron *** lickers. I felt the same way when Dirk and Kobe won the award. I'm sure this will not be Lebron's last one either barring injury.

bucketss
05-04-2013, 10:37 AM
MVP equals being awarded to the best player on the best team. I'm glad Lebron is doing it justice, but I still hate the way MVP is handed out. I thought Lebron had a lot of help. He's valuable no question and the best on the planet, but it helps to have Wade, Bosh, and historic shooters in your back pocket making the game easier for him. This is a team award to me now. Trust me, it's not sour grapes Lebron *** lickers. I felt the same way when Dirk and Kobe won the award. I'm sure this will not be Lebron's last one either barring injury.

i think it always has been a team award.

BklynKnicks3
05-04-2013, 10:47 AM
who finished in 2nd?

DaLakerz Rulz
05-04-2013, 11:39 AM
Stern rigged the MVP award again and you are all falling for it. What a joke.

LOL, is anyone surprised that this is coming from a laker fan(kobephile) lol you guys are so paranoid about king james, aha,

?? I am not a Kobe fan at all. As long as the Lakers are successful I could care less who is on the team. But it has been documented and well established on PSD that David Stern has a large say in what goes on in the NBA in terms of the regular season, playoffs, and awards. Its not my fault if some ppl are too blind to see this.

Bruno
05-04-2013, 12:10 PM
Debatable. LeBron has better defensive ratings. And while Jordan was amazing on that end LeBron is more versatile. His length and strength allow him to defend taller power players which can't be said for Jordan. But like I said it's debatable and you can't go wrong with either.

EDIT: Bruno, In no way, form, or shape I didn't mean to say LeBron is better than Jordan already. He has to earn so many accolades to enter that discussion. What I was saying LeBron peak as a TWO way player is arguably the best. Just wanted to clear it up if there was any confusion lol.

i understand what you're sayin' :cheers:

Hawkeye15
05-04-2013, 12:24 PM
Stern rigged the MVP award again and you are all falling for it. What a joke.


Well deserved.

Still not in the class of Kobe, Magic, Bird, or MJ IMO. Note I said IMO so please take that for what it is...my opinion. Don't need to see globs of Hollinger stats as rebuttals...I won't respond.

never saw this coming.....

Get over it. LeBron will pass your boy, there is no stopping it. But you are more than welcome to live in the complete minority that hold onto the opinion that so few will.

R. Johnson#3
05-04-2013, 12:35 PM
For the past few years it's been debate-able if Lebron is the best player in the league. This year was the year where the debating ended. Lebron was absolutely incredible this year and as much as I hate him, I have to admit that there is no arguing the fact that he is now the best player in the NBA.

Yanks All Day
05-04-2013, 12:41 PM
For the past few years it's been debate-able if Lebron is the best player in the league. This year was the year where the debating ended. Lebron was absolutely incredible this year and as much as I hate him, I have to admit that there is no arguing the fact that he is now the best player in the NBA.

LeBron has clearly been the best player in the NBA for at least 5 years now.

tredigs
05-04-2013, 12:43 PM
For the past few years it's been debate-able if Lebron is the best player in the league. This year was the year where the debating ended. Lebron was absolutely incredible this year and as much as I hate him, I have to admit that there is no arguing the fact that he is now the best player in the NBA.

Well welcome to the ball game. Unfortunately it's standing room only at this point, being that it began in the last decade.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2013, 12:46 PM
For the past few years it's been debate-able if Lebron is the best player in the league. This year was the year where the debating ended. Lebron was absolutely incredible this year and as much as I hate him, I have to admit that there is no arguing the fact that he is now the best player in the NBA.

a debate amongst who? The consensus has called him the best player the last 3-4 years, and statistically and impact wise, its the last 5.

bucketss
05-04-2013, 01:46 PM
?? I am not a Kobe fan at all. As long as the Lakers are successful I could care less who is on the team. But it has been documented and well established on PSD that David Stern has a large say in what goes on in the NBA in terms of the regular season, playoffs, and awards. Its not my fault if some ppl are too blind to see this.

mvp is a media award meaning the media votes for who is mvp lol stern has absolutely no say, lol if you're saying stern rigs the voting system in favor of lebron, than i don't know what to say but i will say that theory is up there with lebron being on roids... i guess people got to make excuses to explain lebrons greatness.

tredigs
05-04-2013, 02:14 PM
mvp is a media award meaning the media votes for who is mvp lol stern has absolutely no say, lol if you're saying stern rigs the voting system in favor of lebron, than i don't know what to say but i will say that theory is up there with lebron being on roids... i guess people got to make excuses to explain lebrons greatness.

We mostly agree Bucketss but on this one I can't. There are mannnnnny athletes using steroids, basketball included, even many if not a slight majority of Olympians very likely do (most just know how to cycle to beat the test - which by ex-training and athlete insider accounts is apparently a running joke of how easy it is to do).

There is a virtual 0% chance that Stern has anything to do with the MVP voting (and why would he? benefits nothing), but it's all together possible Lebron cycles in certain illegal substances like innumerable others to get that edge.

smiddy012
05-04-2013, 03:41 PM
Jordan's defensive numbers are somewhat deceiving if you're comparing him with LeBron on that end of the floor. While Jordan was a spectacular defensive player, LeBron's defensive numbers don't tell the whole story. LeBron is able to defend multiple positions because like you said he is long and extremely powerful. You could make a good case for both players.

Just because Lebron can guard some centers, and MJ couldn't, that doesn't "arguably make" Lebron the better defender.

There is no valid, statistical argument that can be made for Lebron as the better defender over MJ, even when taking non-statistical context into account. In 87-88 MJ had 259 steals and 131 blocks, and the year before that he had 236/125. He was the first player ever to have 200+ steals and 100+ blocks. Lebron's two best seasons are at a mere 137/93 & 177/52 in comparison.

Sure the pace was faster back then, but that's ALL Lebron has going for him in this argument. Because if we look at physical measurables, Lebron's taller, longer, stronger, and more versatile. So obviously there is more to defending than just physical measurables. Specifically, MJ was more driven, more instinctive, and quicker on the defensive side of the ball. These three factors account for the gigantic gap in defensive stats between the two more than any others. There's a reason prime MJ is regarded as the best defending SG ever.


Haha, Rose only got the votes because everyone thought LeBron took the easy way out and hated that.

Ummmm... if joining the next best player in the league (at the time) isn't taking the easy way out, I don't know what is. It was an unprecedented move for a reason.


If we were being fair, Rose wouldn't even come close. Look at how Rose's team is doing without him. Imagine if Cleveland didn't have LeBron... Oh wait! You know how it ends.

The year Rose won MVP, Lebron was on the Heat, not the Cavs. Lebron's 09-10 Cavs actually beat out the Bulls for best record in the East, with only 1 top 20 player (not three). And that 1 top 20 player (Lebron) was awarded MVP.

The next season Rose's 10-11 Bulls beat out Miami for the best record in the East, with only 1 top 20 player (not three). And that 1 top 20 player (Rose) was awarded MVP.

Just like Lebron was more valuable to Cleveland in 09-10 than he was to Miami in 10-11, Rose was more valuable to Chicago in 10-11 than Lebron was to Miami in 10-11.

Not to mention, absolutely no one expected Rose, except perhaps Rose himself, to lead the (injury-riddled) Bulls to a better record than the big three's Heat, but thats exactly what happened. And don't forget, this was the same season where Lebron was having issues in the clutch, whereas Rose finished off defenses in the fourth as if it were clockwork.

None of this was actually addressed to OceanSpray btw, just the argument he is trying to validate. I've read enough from OceanSpray to understand that he is a simple fanboy.


All that said, I believe Lebron is the second best player ever, and that he obviously deserved this MVP.

DaLakerz Rulz
05-04-2013, 03:57 PM
mvp is a media award meaning the media votes for who is mvp lol stern has absolutely no say, lol if you're saying stern rigs the voting system in favor of lebron, than i don't know what to say but i will say that theory is up there with lebron being on roids... i guess people got to make excuses to explain lebrons greatness.

Its not an excuse its reality. Stern has control over the media just like he has control over games through the refs.

tredigs
05-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Its not an excuse its reality. Stern has control over the media just like he has control over games through the refs.

I heard he even had control over Lebron's dominance in high school, also Ronny Turiaf's dreams.

OceanSpray
05-04-2013, 04:11 PM
Just because Lebron can guard some centers, and MJ couldn't, that doesn't "arguably make" Lebron the better defender.

There is no valid, statistical argument that can be made for Lebron as the better defender over MJ, even when taking non-statistical context into account. In 87-88 MJ had 259 steals and 131 blocks, and the year before that he had 236/125. He was the first player ever to have 200+ steals and 100+ blocks. Lebron's two best seasons are at a mere 137/93 & 177/52 in comparison.

Sure the pace was faster back then, but that's ALL Lebron has going for him in this argument. Because if we look at physical measurables, Lebron's taller, longer, stronger, and more versatile. So obviously there is more to defending than just physical measurables. Specifically, MJ was more driven, more instinctive, and quicker on the defensive side of the ball. These three factors account for the gigantic gap in defensive stats between the two more than any others. There's a reason prime MJ is regarded as the best defending SG ever.



Ummmm... if joining the next best player in the league (at the time) isn't taking the easy way out, I don't know what is. It was an unprecedented move for a reason.



The year Rose won MVP, Lebron was on the Heat, not the Cavs. Lebron's 09-10 Cavs actually beat out the Bulls for best record in the East, with only 1 top 20 player (not three). And that 1 top 20 player (Lebron) was awarded MVP.

The next season Rose's 10-11 Bulls beat out Miami for the best record in the East, with only 1 top 20 player (not three). And that 1 top 20 player (Rose) was awarded MVP.

Just like Lebron was more valuable to Cleveland in 09-10 than he was to Miami in 10-11, Rose was more valuable to Chicago in 10-11 than Lebron was to Miami in 10-11.

Not to mention, absolutely no one expected Rose, except perhaps Rose himself, to lead the (injury-riddled) Bulls to a better record than the big three's Heat, but thats exactly what happened. And don't forget, this was the same season where Lebron was having issues in the clutch, whereas Rose finished off defenses in the fourth as if it were clockwork.

None of this was actually addressed to OceanSpray btw, just the argument he is trying to validate. I've read enough from OceanSpray to understand that he is a simple fanboy.


All that said, I believe Lebron is the second best player ever, and that he obviously deserved this MVP.

You are an idiot. I was alluding to the fact that Bulls maintained a high seed with Rose injured for a majority of the season. If LeBron was injured during his Cleveland days, he would never even make it to the playoffs. Rose is overrated. He's had a great team since the beginning of his career and has never received any criticism. How did LeBron exactly take the easy way out? He found a team that wanted to win. Why should he have chose a team that wouldn't have such chances? Look at Spurs, LAL, Boston, and plenty of other teams. How would you have expected LeBron to beat them by himself for an entire season? No, he decided that if you wanted to beat them, you have to find some firepower. Yet, you're calling me a fanboy when you put LeBron as the second GOAT. Makes sense, keep the hate going. There is no one in any generation of basketball who is more diverse than LeBron.

smiddy012
05-04-2013, 04:56 PM
You are an idiot. I was alluding to the fact that Bulls maintained a high seed with Rose injured for a majority of the season. If LeBron was injured during his Cleveland days, he would never even make it to the playoffs.

Yeah... thats why Lebron won the MVP twice in Cleveland... if you're just comparing MVP seasons to prove that Lebron was more valuable to Cleveland in 09-10 than Rose was to the Bulls in 10-11, I can agree with that. But in 10-11, Rose was more valuable to his team than Lebron was.


Rose is overrated. He's had a great team since the beginning of his career and has never received any criticism.

Rose has always had a "great" team around him? Well I suppose if you consider a quarter of the teams in the league to be great, then we can agree there.

All stars receive criticism, there's just been more hype and expectations for Lebron than any player ever. But he'll never be what he's been billed as (the next MJ).


How did LeBron exactly take the easy way out? He found a team that wanted to win. Why should he have chose a team that wouldn't have such chances?

None of the other all-time greats colluded to play with the other best player in the league. So relative to them, Lebron took the easy route.


Look at Spurs, LAL, Boston, and plenty of other teams. How would you have expected LeBron to beat them by himself for an entire season? No, he decided that if you wanted to beat them, you have to find some firepower.

Joining the other best player in the league, along with another top 15 player, isn't just "some firepower." There's a reason so many all-time greats pointed out that they never would've done what Lebron did after the decision.


Yet, you're calling me a fanboy when you put LeBron as the second GOAT. Makes sense, keep the hate going. There is no one in any generation of basketball who is more diverse than LeBron.

Well I would be a fanboy too if I didn't concede that I think Lebron is the second best ever, to me it's just common sense. But has he gone 24-0 in playoff series with HCA? Is he a better scorer, defender, or finisher than MJ? Backed by statistical research, the answer to all those questions in undeniably no.

naps
05-04-2013, 05:34 PM
Stern rigged the MVP award again and you are all falling for it. What a joke.

I bet you didn't say this when Kobe got the award in 2008 Or during that infamous Lakers-Kings playoffs? Did you? Pretty awesome how only kobe fans have problems with LeBron getting the award while everyone else if appreciating the man. Funny they can't say why he doesn't deserve it.

Here's what you can do instead crying, make a case for someone else other than LeBron for this award. I bet you would act you didn't see my post or even if you see it you won't do what I asked for.



For the past few years it's been debate-able if Lebron is the best player in the league. This year was the year where the debating ended. Lebron was absolutely incredible this year and as much as I hate him, I have to admit that there is no arguing the fact that he is now the best player in the NBA.

Hey man, wake up. It's not 2007.

heyman321
05-04-2013, 05:39 PM
For the past few years it's been debate-able if Lebron is the best player in the league. This year was the year where the debating ended. Lebron was absolutely incredible this year and as much as I hate him, I have to admit that there is no arguing the fact that he is now the best player in the NBA.

What's there to debate? He has been the best player the last 5-6 years.

mngopher35
05-04-2013, 05:48 PM
Well I would be a fanboy too if I didn't concede that I think Lebron is the second best ever, to me it's just common sense. But has he gone 24-0 in playoff series with HCA? Is he a better scorer, defender, or finisher than MJ? Backed by statistical research, the answer to all those questions in undeniably no.

That is at least debatable I think. I saw you use steals and blocks as your main backing for this in an earlier post, but that doesn't mean a ton. This year and 2011 Monta ellis was 2nd in steals. In 2010 Steph Curry (rookie) was 2nd in steals. Arenas and Baron Davis each got 2nd once or twice as well. Are these guys top defenders each year?

MJ was an amazing defender no doubt but I think there can at least be a discussion about each of their defensive impacts. Lebron is a more versatile defender, and a better help defender imo. He also has to guard the other teams main threat more often because Jordan had Pippen to take the hardest match ups. Lebron is a big reason that Miami's defense is so good and versatile without having a true anchor. Now I have only talked about Lebron here and not how good of a 1v1 defender Jordan was, or his ability to create steals and blocks etc. I am just trying to give some reasons why it could be a discussion. Giving steal and block numbers and then saying that's your statistical evidence why one player is better defensively just isn't a real analysis to me. Personally I think Jordan was a better 1v1 defender and Lebron a more versatile, better help defender.

dodie53
05-04-2013, 05:58 PM
well deserved

jerellh528
05-04-2013, 06:20 PM
Kinda thought KD shoulda got it, either way congrats to an amazing athlete and good player in Lebron.

BKdoubleStacker
05-04-2013, 06:30 PM
Oh yea, glad to see the true legends LeBron joins with his 4th MVP. Kareem, Jordan, Wilt, Russell. Most people have those 4 in their top 5. People, those who didn't see it before, can now see a clearer picture of where LeBron is heading to. I guess it's a good company.




Where the **** did I bait Lakers fans? Are you that hurt that LeBron is so good at basketball?

do you really want me to pull up your post history? all you ever do is defend the heat and lebron in such a disgusting biased manner while always attacking lakers and calling them kobephiles

learn reading comprehension. I said lebron deserved it. While I dont like him, I am reasonable and unbiased unlike you.

Next time add some substance to your arguments instead of petty one liners

Chronz
05-04-2013, 06:50 PM
You are an idiot. I was alluding to the fact that Bulls maintained a high seed with Rose injured for a majority of the season. If LeBron was injured during his Cleveland days, he would never even make it to the playoffs.

Yeah... thats why Lebron won the MVP twice in Cleveland... if you're just comparing MVP seasons to prove that Lebron was more valuable to Cleveland in 09-10 than Rose was to the Bulls in 10-11, I can agree with that. But in 10-11, Rose was more valuable to his team than Lebron was.


Rose is overrated. He's had a great team since the beginning of his career and has never received any criticism.

Rose has always had a "great" team around him? Well I suppose if you consider a quarter of the teams in the league to be great, then we can agree there.

All stars receive criticism, there's just been more hype and expectations for Lebron than any player ever. But he'll never be what he's been billed as (the next MJ).


How did LeBron exactly take the easy way out? He found a team that wanted to win. Why should he have chose a team that wouldn't have such chances?

None of the other all-time greats colluded to play with the other best player in the league. So relative to them, Lebron took the easy route.


Look at Spurs, LAL, Boston, and plenty of other teams. How would you have expected LeBron to beat them by himself for an entire season? No, he decided that if you wanted to beat them, you have to find some firepower.

Joining the other best player in the league, along with another top 15 player, isn't just "some firepower." There's a reason so many all-time greats pointed out that they never would've done what Lebron did after the decision.


Yet, you're calling me a fanboy when you put LeBron as the second GOAT. Makes sense, keep the hate going. There is no one in any generation of basketball who is more diverse than LeBron.

Well I would be a fanboy too if I didn't concede that I think Lebron is the second best ever, to me it's just common sense. But has he gone 24-0 in playoff series with HCA? Is he a better scorer, defender, or finisher than MJ? Backed by statistical research, the answer to all those questions in undeniably no.
Props for remaining level headed even tho his post began with "you are an idiot".

Inspiring

DaLakerz Rulz
05-04-2013, 06:50 PM
I bet you didn't say this when Kobe got the award in 2008 Or during that infamous Lakers-Kings playoffs? Did you? Pretty awesome how only kobe fans have problems with LeBron getting the award while everyone else if appreciating the man. Funny they can't say why he doesn't deserve it.

Here's what you can do instead crying, make a case for someone else other than LeBron for this award. I bet you would act you didn't see my post or even if you see it you won't do what I asked for.

Rigged. Its all rigged.

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:07 PM
brghgaah!!!!

Rigged!!!!

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:09 PM
Why do humans need water to survive?

Rigged.

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:09 PM
Why does it rain sometimes?

Rigged.

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:10 PM
Why do my eyes hurt when I stare at the sun?

Rigged.

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:11 PM
Why do leaves on trees change color in the fall?

Rigged.

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Why is everything so damn rigged?

Rigged.

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:12 PM
Why is it always rigged when it's rigged in the rigged for the rigged?

Rigged.

ThunderousDemon
05-04-2013, 07:13 PM
Rigged
i
g
g
e
d

ThaDubs
05-04-2013, 07:14 PM
:facepalm:

ThaDubs
05-04-2013, 07:16 PM
And thou art thy the for then the shall the thou thy.

Book of Stern 12:5

naps
05-05-2013, 02:31 AM
do you really want me to pull up your post history? all you ever do is defend the heat and lebron in such a disgusting biased manner while always attacking lakers and calling them kobephiles

learn reading comprehension. I said lebron deserved it. While I dont like him, I am reasonable and unbiased unlike you.

Next time add some substance to your arguments instead of petty one liners

Go bring up the history if you can. I call out the kobephiles every time they try to destroy threads by their unbelievable hatred toward LeBron and the Heat. Just like I called one out in this thread because he was said "Only reason why the Heat finished first is cuz of a weak conference (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?817585-Lebron-earns-his-fourth-MVP&p=26133020#post26133020)." Everyone is congratulating and appreciating the man for his greatness on this thread without any endeavor to discredit him except the kobephiles. They are saying stuff like "Stern has rigged this award for LeBron." I always bring substance in my posts, you don't. Tell me why you didn't quote your fellow Kobe fans when they were trying to imply LeBron didn't deserve it but you quoted me when I called out that very same person? Why don't you quote this (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?817585-Lebron-earns-his-fourth-MVP&p=26134790#post26134790) or this (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?817585-Lebron-earns-his-fourth-MVP&p=26137657#post26137657)? Oh wait you won't because they are from the same clan you are.
I'll defend LeBron as long as kobephiles are out there hating on the man like he murdered their families. Do you have any issue with that? If you do, idgaf!

TylerSL
05-05-2013, 10:05 AM
People who are claiming that this should be Lebron's 5th MVP are wrong. The say he should have won it over Rose, which is true Lebron should have won that MVP. But Dwyane Wade should have won the 2009 MVP (Lebron's first). Wade brought the Heat back to relevence and wont 43 games, compared to the 15 wins the year before. Wade's next best players on that team were Haslem and 2 rookies, Chalmers and Beasley. Wade actually had better statistics then Lebron that year as well, they just gave it to Lebron cuz the Cavs won 66 games. Without Wade that year, Miami would have struggled to even get 15 wins as they did in 08. I know the Cavs woulda been really bad without Lebron as we've seen, but if anything there value to their teams at that time were equally as high, but Wade had the better stats and less help, which is really sad to say.

After Wade shoulda won the MVP in 09, Lebron should have gone on to win the next 4 MVP's 2010-2013.

TylerSL
05-05-2013, 10:49 AM
And thou art thy the for then the shall the thou thy.

Book of Stern 12:5

ya someone else should be MVP :rolleyes:

LakersOrNothing
05-05-2013, 01:04 PM
Lebrons gonna surpass MJ and it aint even gonna be funny

YO wheres the wagon peeps?

Chronz
05-05-2013, 01:34 PM
People who are claiming that this should be Lebron's 5th MVP are wrong. The say he should have won it over Rose, which is true Lebron should have won that MVP. But Dwyane Wade should have won the 2009 MVP (Lebron's first). Wade brought the Heat back to relevence and wont 43 games, compared to the 15 wins the year before. Wade's next best players on that team were Haslem and 2 rookies, Chalmers and Beasley. Wade actually had better statistics then Lebron that year as well, they just gave it to Lebron cuz the Cavs won 66 games. Without Wade that year, Miami would have struggled to even get 15 wins as they did in 08. I know the Cavs woulda been really bad without Lebron as we've seen, but if anything there value to their teams at that time were equally as high, but Wade had the better stats and less help, which is really sad to say.

After Wade shoulda won the MVP in 09, Lebron should have gone on to win the next 4 MVP's 2010-2013.

Bron had better stats than Wade and more wins. Bron would have done more with that squad.

justinnum1
05-05-2013, 03:09 PM
Lebron got 120 out of 121 first place votes. Some knicks homer voted melo. LMAO.

Cano4prez
05-05-2013, 03:15 PM
Just like 2000

CHANGO
05-05-2013, 03:15 PM
Not Unanimous thanks to a vote for Melo... ****ing stupid.

zn23
05-05-2013, 03:20 PM
Lebron got 120 out of 121 first place votes. Some knicks homer voted melo. LMAO.

Seriously, he should get his voting rights taken away....

Hardaway Here
05-05-2013, 03:24 PM
I just want to know who thought Melo should get first over Durant let alone Lebron

b@llhog24
05-05-2013, 03:26 PM
DaLakersz Rule isn't a Kobephile.

bucketss
05-05-2013, 03:32 PM
lol damn lebron is getting closer and closer in accepting his baldness,

smiddy012
05-05-2013, 03:34 PM
Lebrons gonna surpass MJ and it aint even gonna be funny

YO wheres the wagon peeps?

When Lebron goes 24-0 in playoff series with HCA, he'll catch up to MJ. That's how funny it is.

Matter.
05-05-2013, 03:46 PM
As bad as the LeBron 2nd place vote, 5 voters didn't have Durant in their top 3.

DaLakerz Rulz
05-05-2013, 03:55 PM
DaLakersz Rule isn't a Kobephile.

I don't think my trolling was obvious enough so it went over peoples' heads. I'll try harder next time lol.

tredigs
05-05-2013, 04:06 PM
I don't think my trolling was obvious enough so it went over peoples' heads. I'll try harder next time lol.

Touche'!

lebsik
05-05-2013, 04:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO-70jg_a-0 - lebron named mvp

bucketss
05-05-2013, 04:17 PM
I don't think my trolling was obvious enough so it went over peoples' heads. I'll try harder next time lol.

nice save;) (y)

JasonJohnHorn
05-05-2013, 04:36 PM
http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/05/lebron-2013-mvp-award/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt3b

We all knew LBJ won the MVP award, but there was a chance that it was going to be the first ever unanimous selection. NBA.com released the voting today and LBJ missed it by one vote, though it is the biggest landslide in MVP voting ever. Shaq also pulled this off when he won the MVP award in 2000.

Rom NBA.com: "Rounding out the top five in voting are Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant (765 points), the New York Knicks' Carmelo Anthony, (475 points, one first-place vote), the Los Angeles Clippers' Chris Paul (289 points), and the Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant (184 points)."

FRom ESPN: "Others receiving votes: Tony Parker (86 points); Tim Duncan (65); James Harden (33); Russell Westbrook (9); Dwyane Wade (5); Stephen Curry (3); Kevin Garnett (1); David Lee (1); Ty Lawson (1); Marc Gasol (1); Joakim Noah (1)."

Melo it seems stole one vote away from LBJ. I thought CP3 might steal a couple.


ESPN has the all voting numbers: http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9244504/lebron-james-miami-heat-1-vote-shy-unanimous-mvp-honor



So three questions for you guys. Will LBJ break the record for most MVP awards? It stands at six from Kareem. Second question, are there any guys you thoughts deserved at least SOME votes that didn't show up? Third: Any guys get votes who you weren't expecting?

Odd fact, Curry received more MVP votes than Lee, though Lee was his teams' lone All-Star. I was surprised to see Garnett get a vote to be honest. There are three playoff teams without one player having received a vote: BK, Indy and ATL (all eastern conference teams). I would have liked to see Paul George get a vote, or maybe Horford, though it's hard to argue those guys above most of the guys who finished top 7 in voting.


EDIT: Why was this moved to the LBJ MVP thread. This point of this post was to discuss the other guys. Who got votes. Who didn't. And the likelihood of LBJ breaking the record?

pedrofan45
05-05-2013, 04:38 PM
Who the ******* voted for Melo?

bucketss
05-05-2013, 04:43 PM
brkylynknicks has a media vote?

STAT1
05-05-2013, 05:00 PM
Don't believe it. Link?

sunsfan88
05-05-2013, 05:01 PM
Lol which dumb** voted for Melo?

CP3 and Durant both have better cases than 'Melo.