PDA

View Full Version : sox looking for upgrade over salty?



grandsalami
05-01-2013, 02:25 PM
“With Saltalamacchia, I’ve heard this from executives of other teams: They say they think that the Red Sox will be looking for an upgrade at that position, possibly even before the trade deadline at some point. They feel like, given the money that they’re paying him, he’s got to perform better than how he’s been performing at the beginning of this year.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/05/01/buster-olney-on-mm-red-sox-could-be-looking-for-an-upgrade-over-jarrod-saltalamacchia-at-catcher/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

ryan lavarnway?

TragicallyHip
05-01-2013, 02:48 PM
There aren't many realistically attainable upgrades over Salty, IMO. Key word, attainable.

RedSoxtober
05-01-2013, 03:03 PM
"They say they think..." is code for "I talked to a guy in another FO who doesn't think much of Salty... and I gotta meet a deadline..." I'm not much of a Salty fan but consider these numbers:

Career: .238/.303/.419
2011: .238/.288/.450
2012: .222/.288/.454
2013: .232/.321/.435

His 2013 numbers are not much to talk about BUT they are right in line with what he's done for his career and for his days in a Sox uniform. Rivals might think that they should get more for their money (they're right) but the dude splitting time with David Ross is exactly what he's always been. His HRs tend to come in little bunches so 3HR in April is not too far off. On the positive side his BB rate is up, ultimately producing a career best 101 OPS+.

I don't love the numbers but Salty is having, by his standards, a banner year and to have expected something different was to go searching for fool's gold. I guess what I mean to say by all this is that the performance has not caught the Sox by surprise no matter what unnamed source someone "quoted" in an article.

While I like Lavarnway's potential, Farrell didn't give him a chance in his brief chance last weekend. Lavarnway is hitting pretty well at PAW (.313/.433/.438) and has thrown out 44% of base stealers yet could not find his way into the game even to PH during a four game set with HOU that the Sox won by 4+ runs each day. All that speaks volumes to what they consider his readiness.

bagwell368
05-01-2013, 03:06 PM
I'm not fan of Salty for a number of reasons, but either you go for a better glove or a better bat. Better at both? That's killer expensive.

I think Ross should get 1/5 of the job from Salty - IE whichever pitcher is working least well with Salty. It would help the D, and getting less of a load might keep Salty's bat fresher in the 2nd half.

At the deadline I'd making inquires of Cleveland. But be prepared to walk away unhappy on that....

bagwell368
05-01-2013, 03:08 PM
All that speaks volumes to what they consider his readiness.

Or it speaks to the Manager not wanting to mess with the wa/sangfroid of the team for the sake of one game.

RedSoxtober
05-01-2013, 03:10 PM
Interesting read on Lavarnway from ProJo...


All that, however, doesn’t mean there was nothing encouraging about the move. It was clear from the start that Lavarnway was serving as a roster placeholder, but the catcher earned that brief promotion because of a solid start with the PawSox — one that, he said, has him “getting back to being myself at the plate.”

The implication, obviously, is that there was a time when Lavarnway wasn’t feeling like himself. It wasn’t just the stretch run of 2012, when he struggled mightily at the major-league level. It was a tough stretch that lasted most of the season, even as he managed to hit .295 with a .376 on-base percentage at Pawtucket.

Lavarnway characterized the problem as an inability to make adjustments in the middle of an at-bat.

“When I’m at my best, I am my own best hitting coach. I can make pitch-to-pitch adjustments during the at-bat and not have to come back to the dugout and waste an at-bat,” Lavarnway said.

That wasn’t the case last year.

“It was the first time that that had ever happened,” he said. “I was in unknown territory. I was searching for something and trying something new every day. There was no continuity.”

What sparked Lavarnway’s turnaround? A visit from his past, carefully logged on the computer of hitting coach Dave Joppie.

“I have a data base of stuff, with midseason and end-of-season evaluations,” said Joppie, whose work with Lavarnway dates all the way back to the fall instructional league in 2009. “I actually pulled those up off my computer, printed them out, gave them to him, sat down with him and we went through it step by step.”
“We busted out what he had had in the logs of his computer from 2010, 2011 — what we were working on then, how we had progressed,” Lavarnway said. “He had taken notes, and that was helpful to see what I was thinking when I was at my best a couple of years ago and trying to get back into it.”

Lavarnway has gotten back to the same pregame routine he used with Joppie when he started his breakout 2011 season in Portland. He’s also found a way to straddle the line of, in his own words, “being aggressive and being disciplined in my approach at the same time.”

Joppie views that as simply being prepared to hit right away.

“Probably the biggest thing with him is making sure he has the mindset of being ready to hit when he steps in the box, right from the 0-0 count,” Joppie said. “That’s something that he has done, instead of feeling his way through an at-bat, especially the first one. It allows him to be in position to recognize pitches better.”

Case in point: Lavarnway’s first at-bat for the PawSox on Monday night. Instead of settling into the game and the at-bat, Lavarnway got a first pitch up in the zone and lined it into center for a base hit.

-Lavigne43-
05-01-2013, 05:38 PM
Salty to me is a pretty bad defensive player. If you're bad defensive catcher you better put up good offensive numbers. The last two years he has put up average offensive production at best. Most of his production comes from homeruns, and without looking it up it seems to me they come in short stretches with the bulk of games he's not much of a factor.

bagwell368
05-01-2013, 08:22 PM
Interesting read on Lavarnway from ProJo...

That's what I kept saying last year. He's not himself at the plate and he's getting too much coaching - let him relax.

Salty at his best can be good defensively (if that arm is on that is), but at his worst he's bad. Lavarnway is already a steadier defensive catcher than Salty.

AI
05-01-2013, 08:27 PM
Please lord, let this be true.

Celtic AL
05-02-2013, 01:20 AM
Im all for trading Salty. But Who's really out there tho for an upgrade?

mooz
05-02-2013, 08:32 AM
Im all for trading Salty. But Who's really out there tho for an upgrade?

I wouldn't say the upgrade comes necessarily from trading Salty for a better catcher. It's more addition by subtraction. Trading Salty for a prospect or maybe a bullpen piece and allowing Lavarnaway to take his spot would be an instant improvement in my mind. Lavarnaway would get to learn from a very good game caller in Ross and even with a straight platoon, Lavarnaway would hopefully get enough reps to stay in rhythm. It would also likely help Ross's bat as well. I think the defensive improvement goes without saying. As some have already mentioned, Salty is far too inconsistent defensively.

Nomar
05-02-2013, 10:57 AM
Please take him out of my life

todu82
05-02-2013, 12:56 PM
Hope this is true. Catching is a weak spot for this team.

BGeer091
05-02-2013, 01:01 PM
Im really just whatever on this. I never thought Salty was going to be an amazing catcher. I think he's pretty average. I hate that he strikes out a lot. I look around the league at potential replacement catcher's and i don't see a clear upgrade. Maybe Brian McCann? I don't know if he is really available though. I'm personally ok with finishing the season with Salty, or Lavarnway. I'd prefer it be Lavarnway though. I think their defense is pretty much the same. I think Lavarnway is a better hitter though. Even with the success it's supposed to be a bridge year... Why not let the young guy get more MLB at bats.

As far as trading Salty i'm not sure we can get to much for him. Maybe at best we could get a high ceiling prospect who needs a change of scenery?

bagwell368
05-02-2013, 01:11 PM
Nobody is dealing us a killer catcher at anything near a sane price. We could get a journeyman w/o much cost or trouble, but it won't help us unless we have an injury.

We've got 3 kids that might make it over the next few years including Lavarnway. We'll be looking there. If that fails to give us the right guy, than there is always FA to shoot for before 2014 and beyond.

BGeer091
05-02-2013, 01:20 PM
Yeah I agree. Vazquez is really starting to look like a legit catching spec. I know he doesn't hit for average either but he gets on base. His defense at catcher is probably gold glove material. Wait does that phrase even mean anything anymore lol.

IglesiasIgnited
05-03-2013, 03:18 AM
I know this will never happen, but I would love to see the Red Sox trade for Buster Posey! He would fit in perfectly.

bagwell368
05-03-2013, 06:00 AM
I know this will never happen, but I would love to see the Red Sox trade for Buster Posey! He would fit in perfectly.

And in an associated dream I get Jenny Dell, and $150M lottery ticket....

MG956
05-03-2013, 06:37 AM
I know this will never happen, but I would love to see the Red Sox trade for Buster Posey! He would fit in perfectly.

We don't need Posey, when we get Stanton we are going to convert him to catcher.

BGeer091
05-03-2013, 01:03 PM
Isn't Posey locked up too? So he's not going anywhere.

bagwell368
05-05-2013, 06:02 AM
Isn't Posey locked up too? So he's not going anywhere.

What a ridiculous contract, they'll be as sorry as Minny for handing out a massive deal to a catcher.

bruins>habs
05-05-2013, 05:04 PM
We don't need Posey, when we get Stanton we are going to convert him to catcher.

Are you being serious?

ruckus16969
05-05-2013, 06:44 PM
are you being serious?

lol

BGeer091
05-06-2013, 10:37 AM
What a ridiculous contract, they'll be as sorry as Minny for handing out a massive deal to a catcher.

Has their really been a ridiculous contract that has ever worked out? I mean like has any of the these long term 120+ contracts ever paid off??

Nomar
05-06-2013, 10:50 AM
Has their really been a ridiculous contract that has ever worked out? I mean like has any of the these long term 120+ contracts ever paid off??

Matt Holiday's probably will. There's one right off the top of my head. There's definitely some more.

mooz
05-06-2013, 11:38 AM
Matt Holiday's probably will. There's one right off the top of my head. There's definitely some more.

Manny's worked out pretty well for us. I believe that was for $100 mil not 120 but his production from 2001-2007 certainly justified the contract regardless of how much of a headache he was at the end of it. We've been trying to replace his production since.

BGeer091
05-06-2013, 12:15 PM
Manny's worked out pretty well for us. I believe that was for $100 mil not 120 but his production from 2001-2007 certainly justified the contract regardless of how much of a headache he was at the end of it. We've been trying to replace his production since.

He's the only one I thought of lol. I just didn't want to sound like a homer. Amazing production for us and 2 rings!? Hell yeah I'd say that was worth every penny. Not to mention the flip in the outfield, and cutting off that throw of Damon haha.

AI
05-06-2013, 02:50 PM
Matt Holiday's probably will. There's one right off the top of my head. There's definitely some more.

I vote that Matt Holliday's name be banned from being mentioned in this forum.

Every single time I see his name I think of what could have been. :sigh:

RedSoxtober
05-06-2013, 02:58 PM
Manny's worked out pretty well for us. I believe that was for $100 mil not 120 but his production from 2001-2007 certainly justified the contract regardless of how much of a headache he was at the end of it. We've been trying to replace his production since.

Manny was $160M/8yrs. If you check out his B-A page the salaries are listed at the bottom. His actual pay in a Sox uniform was in the $135M-140M. The missing income is in the form of deferred compensation of around $2M-3M/yr for a decade or so.

mooz
05-07-2013, 02:56 PM
Manny was $160M/8yrs. If you check out his B-A page the salaries are listed at the bottom. His actual pay in a Sox uniform was in the $135M-140M. The missing income is in the form of deferred compensation of around $2M-3M/yr for a decade or so.

Oh ok, sorry about that. I don't know why I thought it was only $100 mil, I knew he was paid an average of $20 mil per and obviously it was longer than 5 years haha.

BGeer091
05-12-2013, 05:33 PM
Hopefully either Salty can snap out of his horrid start to the season, or Lavarnway comes up and hits. With Ross on the d.l we really need Lavarnway to steal the catchers job from Salty. I'm a big salty fan but damn he's gotta stop stikeing out and hit! My hopes is that Lavarnway sees like 3 games with Ross out and that he lights it up offensively. Then when Ross comes back salty can either be moved or dl to give Lavarnway a shot. Is that wishful thinking?

RedSoxtober
05-13-2013, 09:16 AM
Hopefully either Salty can snap out of his horrid start to the season, or Lavarnway comes up and hits. With Ross on the d.l we really need Lavarnway to steal the catchers job from Salty. I'm a big salty fan but damn he's gotta stop stikeing out and hit! My hopes is that Lavarnway sees like 3 games with Ross out and that he lights it up offensively. Then when Ross comes back salty can either be moved or dl to give Lavarnway a shot. Is that wishful thinking?

Yes. Compare Salty's numbers to his career. k-rate is pretty much in line with what he's done in the past and his slash is better than his norm. In fact, it's the best line of his career. What you characterize as a "horrid start" cannot have been a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention, ESPECIALLY the guys who signed him.

Crucis
05-14-2013, 04:47 AM
Hopefully either Salty can snap out of his horrid start to the season, or Lavarnway comes up and hits. With Ross on the d.l we really need Lavarnway to steal the catchers job from Salty. I'm a big salty fan but damn he's gotta stop stikeing out and hit! My hopes is that Lavarnway sees like 3 games with Ross out and that he lights it up offensively. Then when Ross comes back salty can either be moved or dl to give Lavarnway a shot. Is that wishful thinking?


What's this horrid start to which you refer? Salty's offensive numbers aren't all that bad.

His slash line is .263/.333/.495 with an OPS of 0.828, which seems quite respectable to me.

If you want to rip his defense, rip away. But all in all, it seems to me that there's not all that much to complain about in Salty's offense.

BGeer091
05-14-2013, 09:02 AM
Well he may have a .263 etc line.. He's poor with runners in scoring position a .179. Thats pathetic. To many times when we need a hit or a run he strikes out. That's horrid to me. He hasn't hit on the road at all. I'll admit his been hitting at home. Well hitting when people aren't in scoring position. You can hit .300 all year but if your not scoring or knocking in runs what good are you. Salty is just not producing runs. Maybe im just expecting to much out of him. In the middle of writing this I went back and studied his numbers a bit more. He's produced 20 runs in 29 games. It's not elite numbers, but it's not as poor as I originally thought. Perhaps when he strikes out with runners on its seems end of the world to me.

I really like Salty but I just want to give Lavarnway a shot. I hope Salty does well for us obviously, I just can't stand the horrible w/ris numbers.

mooz
05-14-2013, 09:46 AM
Well, looks like Lavarnaway will at least get a small shot to prove himself at the major league level with David Ross being placed on the 7 day concussion DL. Lavarnaway was called up to replace him.