PDA

View Full Version : 2013 MLB Draft Discussion



Pages : [1] 2

AI
04-30-2013, 03:49 PM
Thought this deserved it's own thread, all draft discussion should go in here.

Here's what Conor Glassey of BA had to say about "What to expect in the 1st round"


With the seventh overall pick, the Red Sox hold their highest choice since 1993 when the team drafted Trot Nixon out of New Hanover High in Wilmington, N.C. Itís unlikely to happen, but the sense is the Red Sox would love for Loganville High (Grayson, Ga.) outfielder Clint Frazier to fall to their pick. He grew up down the street from Red Sox scout Tim Hyers, and itís easy to envision Frazier hitting moonshots over the Green Monster and being a fan favorite in Boston for his fiery red hair and blue collar style of play.

Nomar
04-30-2013, 03:51 PM
My top 7 as of April 30th:

Frazier
Gray
Appel
Bryant
Manaea
Stanek
Wilson

AI
04-30-2013, 04:22 PM
I know Appel and Gray won't fall to us so I'm hoping one or Frazier or Bryant does.

-Lavigne43-
04-30-2013, 05:18 PM
Appel and Gray are going to be the first two picks unless something drastic happens. Law said on the radio a couple weeks ago that they were looking a lot at Bryant and Moran. He thinks they will be picked before us though, Rockies and Indians are supposed to be really interested in them.

I'm probably overrating them, but I want Frazier or Meadows simply because I want the highest ceiling possible with this pick. We have the depth in the system to try and hit a homerun and not go with the safe pick. None of the other pitchers around our pick excite me that much. They seem too similar to pitchers that are normally available later in the first round in other years. A ton can still change though, I hope someone else can emerge and thicken up the top of the draft.

AI
04-30-2013, 05:24 PM
Pretty much agree with everything you just said Lav. Would prefer Frazier or Bryant over Meadows, but if we end up with Meadows then I'll be happy with that too. I don't know, but Stanek and Manaea don't really intrigue me.

Nomar
04-30-2013, 05:58 PM
If we take Moran I will be pissed. He has minimal power and his defense at 3rd apparently is lacking as he projects as a 1B. He would need to hit .300 and walk a lot to be worth much at 1B, which is a lot to ask for. Bryant is miles ahead of him as a hitter and should be fine defensively at 1B if he ends up there. Literally anyone I've read we have interest in would make me happy other than Moran.

Also I think Meadows' ceiling is lower than what most people think as of right now. Monster Frazier fan though.

Nomar
04-30-2013, 06:08 PM
It will be interesting to see if Karsten Whitson is still on the board when our 2nd round pick comes and if we would take him then. He once had a big ceiling with 3 pitches that had plus potential, but has now had shoulder surgery. That tends to be our MO, taking chances on guys like that.

-Lavigne43-
04-30-2013, 06:15 PM
Pretty sure Moran has hit a ton of homeruns lately. Not a fan of taking a probable 1b with such a high pick though.

Law has Meadows with the higher ceiling. More projectable body and a good chance at staying at CF. I think he is the only person who has Meadows better, everyone else has them tied or Frazier better. Hes said hes seen Frazier look bad vs HS breaking balls, which is a red flag. I think he K's a lot too.

AI
04-30-2013, 06:32 PM
It will be interesting to see if Karsten Whitson is still on the board when our 2nd round pick comes and if we would take him then. He once had a big ceiling with 3 pitches that had plus potential, but has now had shoulder surgery. That tends to be our MO, taking chances on guys like that.

I'm guessing our 2nd round pick will depend on who falls to us in the in the 1st. If we go with the high-upside pick like Frazier or Meadows in the first then I could see us going with a safer pick in the second.

Nomar
04-30-2013, 07:18 PM
Pretty sure Moran has hit a ton of homeruns lately. Not a fan of taking a probable 1b with such a high pick though.

Law has Meadows with the higher ceiling. More projectable body and a good chance at staying at CF. I think he is the only person who has Meadows better, everyone else has them tied or Frazier better. Hes said hes seen Frazier look bad vs HS breaking balls, which is a red flag. I think he K's a lot too.

Don't get me wrong on Meadows either, I'm still fine with us taking him at 7 if thats what they feel is best. I'm not with Moran but havent considered what he has done this season because i havent looked it up yet. I will do so now though...

homie564
05-01-2013, 09:33 AM
I like Meadows a lot too... I kind of like him more than Frazier to be honest.

Nomar
05-01-2013, 10:18 AM
The biggest concern i have with Frazier is his durability. He has the same play style as guys like Kalish or Lawrie. He's at high risk of going too hard with his play style.

The consensus on Meadows is that he has trouble squaring up the ball at the moment, which doesn't bode well for his hit tool. If he can stick up the middle, he's probably an all-star, but it's more likely he ends up at a corner OF spot where he really will need to hit.

At the end of the day, at 7 they are both a great value and worth the risk IMO.

JMP83
05-01-2013, 12:15 PM
I think anybody but Stanek would be fine for me out of the consensus Top 7-8 guys. Can't see the Sox taking a HS pitcher like Kohl Stewart either.

Frazier, Meadows, Moran, and Manaea would all be fine, although Manaea's lack of development this season bothers me a bit, but he was absolutely fantastic on the Cape.

Moran COULD stay at 3B, I don't think there's a consensus as to how....average he could be there. I know Law recently saw him and thought he looked better at 3B than he had been led to believe. I'm a believer anyway. Bryant, Gray, and Appel I think are locks to be picked in the Top 5 unless something drastic happens, so I'm not even considering them.

I like Frazier a lot, but Law recently brought up that he might not have the arm/range for RF and could be stuck in LF, which is the fear. Plus he'll probably strike out a decent amount with his swing.

goshhhjosh
05-01-2013, 12:49 PM
Kind of meaningless now but here's what a couple of the MLB mock drafts are reporting:

http://bigleaguefutures.net/1/2013/04/02/blfs-2013-mlb-mock-draft-v-3/

1. Appel Astros
2. Gray Cubs
3. Bryant Rockies
4. Meadows Twins
5. Manaea Indians
6. Frazier Marlins
7. Jonathan Denney Red Sox

http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Mock-Draft

1. Manaea Astros
2. Appel Cubs
3. Meadows Rockies
4. Stanek Twins
5. Wilson Indians
6. Frazier Marlins
7. Jonathan Gray Red Sox

I'm sure y'all have seen this but here's a link that shows around 32 MLB 2013 mock drafts.

http://dcprosportsreport.com/MLBMocks.htm

-Lavigne43-
05-01-2013, 01:21 PM
Manaea going #1 in that 2nd one is a joke, unless that was done preseason.

todu82
05-01-2013, 01:24 PM
I'd go with the BPA, always good to add depth at any position through the draft.

-Lavigne43-
05-01-2013, 02:06 PM
Callis chat

Max (Minneapolis): Any idea what Rockies will do with the #3 overall pick in the draft?
Jim Callis: I feel very confident saying that Stanford RHP Mark Appel and Oklahoma RHP Jonathan Gray will go 1-2 or 2-1 to the Astros and Cubs. Less confident guessing (and at this points, it's guessing) what the Rockies will do at 3. I had a scouting director tell me yesterday that he thinks one of both of the top HS bats (Clint Frazier, Austin Meadows) might drop to No. 10 or lower. The best college bats (Kris Bryant, Colin Moran) play 3B, not a position of great need for the Rockies (not that you draft for need at No. 3). I'm not sure I like any of the arms at No. 3. So just guessing here, I'll say Bryant, who may wind up in the outfield anyway.

Keith (Boston, MA): Hi Jim, If you were running the Red Sox, who do you hope is there at 7 and why. Also, do you see them being aggressive for high impact in the 2nd round as well, rather than a potential easy sign?
Jim Callis: The Red Sox should have some good options. I'd be hoping either Frazier or Meadows gets there, or Texas HS RHP Kohl Stewart, or whoever I ranked as the No. 3 college arm (Indiana State LHP Sean Manaea?).

Rich Surhoff (Reading Pa): How high will Colin Moran go in the draft?
Jim Callis: I think somewhere from the No. 6 and No. 10 overall picks.

http://ht.ly/kBzXe

goshhhjosh
05-01-2013, 03:44 PM
Manaea going #1 in that 2nd one is a joke, unless that was done preseason.

It was produced on March 25th FWIW. Some of the other mocks are laughable.

What are people's opinions on Denney?


The best hitting catcher in the 2013 MLB draft, the 6í-2Ē right-hander also has the defensive tools to stick behind the plate at the next level. He has tremendous power to all fields and a good approach at the plate, showing the ability to wait for a pitch to crush. Over 32 games, he is hitting .548 with 11 doubles, five triples, 11 home runs, 51 RBI and has drawn 36 walks for a .694 OBP/1.191 SLG.

http://throughthefencebaseball.com/mock-2013-mlb-draft-9-0/31912/

Nomar
05-01-2013, 06:27 PM
Denney is very good too. Great defense and a really good bat to go with that.

goshhhjosh
05-02-2013, 08:32 AM
Denney is very good too. Great defense and a really good bat to go with that.

I just don't know how the Red Sox view Swihart? Is there a plan to keep him at catcher, where it's been noted that he'd need to fill out and some question if he has the body to play catcher? It would be nice if Swihart could develop into an above average catcher - he's also switch-hitting which is nice. Well, so is Salty so meh lol.

Celtic AL
05-02-2013, 12:20 PM
If we can get any of Bryant, Frazier or Meadows i'd be really Stoked.

BGeer091
05-02-2013, 12:52 PM
My hope for the 7th pick is Meadows. I like his potential alot! There's a few other guys I really like for later on in this draft too. Cord Sandberg, Garret Williams, and Jacob May

To me the draft would be perfect if we got Meadows and May.

I know that we won't get all four of them(Meadows,May,Sandberg,Williams)

A few pitchers I like are Crawford, Harvey, Tyler, and Blair.

-Lavigne43-
05-02-2013, 01:25 PM
If we can get any of Bryant, Frazier or Meadows i'd be really Stoked.

I don't think there's any chance Bryant falls to them. I don't see him getting past the Indians at 5, and he will probably be picked 3rd unless one of the pitchers picks up steam.

-Lavigne43-
05-02-2013, 05:40 PM
Law chat

Andy (Lynchburg, VA)

If you're picking for the Red Sox and either of the top HS bats (Frazier/Meadows) are there along with Kohl Stewart at pick #7 which do you select? I realize the "bat" is generally considered the safer pick, but also wonder if Stewart's upside is so high that you take him anyway..

Klaw (1:07 PM)

Red Sox - Having talked to more scouts this week, I think I'll have Stewart a little lower on the next top 100 because of concerns about his durability. It's top-of-the-rotation stuff, but there are real concerns about whether he'll ever be a 200-inning guy.

Ed (San Mateo)

Ok, its May now. When do you expect your first mock draft to be published?
Klaw (1:10 PM)

Week after next. Right now, I'd project the top five to go Gray, Appel, Bryant, Manaea, Moran. Most people I talk to expect the Astros to try to cut a deal with Gray to use the extra money on someone who falls at 40, like Stewart.

Andy (Lynchburg, VA)

Odds that either Frazier or Meadows falls to the Red Sox at #7 in the draft are?
Klaw (1:13 PM)

Given the top 5 I projected above, I think at least one gets there, very good chance both do.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/47876/mlb-insider-keith-law

Nomar
05-03-2013, 12:07 AM
Law chat

Andy (Lynchburg, VA)

If you're picking for the Red Sox and either of the top HS bats (Frazier/Meadows) are there along with Kohl Stewart at pick #7 which do you select? I realize the "bat" is generally considered the safer pick, but also wonder if Stewart's upside is so high that you take him anyway..

Klaw (1:07 PM)

Red Sox - Having talked to more scouts this week, I think I'll have Stewart a little lower on the next top 100 because of concerns about his durability. It's top-of-the-rotation stuff, but there are real concerns about whether he'll ever be a 200-inning guy.

Ed (San Mateo)

Ok, its May now. When do you expect your first mock draft to be published?
Klaw (1:10 PM)

Week after next. Right now, I'd project the top five to go Gray, Appel, Bryant, Manaea, Moran. Most people I talk to expect the Astros to try to cut a deal with Gray to use the extra money on someone who falls at 40, like Stewart.

Andy (Lynchburg, VA)

Odds that either Frazier or Meadows falls to the Red Sox at #7 in the draft are?
Klaw (1:13 PM)

Given the top 5 I projected above, I think at least one gets there, very good chance both do.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/47876/mlb-insider-keith-law

:clap: what i like to see

-Lavigne43-
05-03-2013, 12:17 AM
Those first 5 picks would be perfect. I know there's a lot of love for Bryant here, but there's no way he falls to us at this point unless he gets hurt. Twins have a pitching need, but I could see them taking Frazier/Meadows like they took Buxton last year. Who knows what the Marlins will do, haven't they taken a ton of HS players in the first round recently?

goshhhjosh
05-03-2013, 08:57 AM
Those first 5 picks would be perfect. I know there's a lot of love for Bryant here, but there's no way he falls to us at this point unless he gets hurt. Twins have a pitching need, but I could see them taking Frazier/Meadows like they took Buxton last year. Who knows what the Marlins will do, haven't they taken a ton of HS players in the first round recently?

2009 - P - Chad James Yukon (Okla.) High School
2010 - 1B - Christian Yelich Westlake High School (CA)
2011 - P Jose Fernandez Baulio Alonso High School (FL)
2012 - P Andrew Heaney Oklahoma State University (Jr.)

Regarding the Marlins farm system:


Quick turnaround here. Strengths: star power at the top with Christian Yelich and Jose Fernandez. Trades have added some depth (Marisnick, Nicolino, Hechavarria, Dietrich, Brantly). Some sleeper pitching arms (Charlie Lowell, Mason Hope). Weaknesses: much of the improvement is due to trades and not internal development, especially on the hitting side.


http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/1/28/3925786/2013-baseball-farm-system-rankings

JMP83
05-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Didn't see this posted, a PerfectGame chat from a day or so ago:

Comment From Bill K
Could Austin Meadows make it to the Red Sox at #7?

Frankie Piliere: I'd be surprised if he didn't. I think Meadows goes 8-15 range. Maybe I'm misguided, but that's the sense I've been getting. I'd be quite surprised if he goes in the top 5-7 picks.

Comment From The minor league guy
Predict the top 5 selections?

David Rawnsley: I "Predict" that they will be Gray, Appel, Bryant, Stanek, Frazier. That's not necessarily how I would take them but it does factor in some team factors.

Comment From Guest
Is JU's Chris Anderson's stock falling just as fast as it rose?

David Rawnsley: It's hard to deny that Anderson hasn't thrown well in his last 3-4 starts and scouts are fickle about finishing strongly, especially with a pitcher like Anderson who doesn't have a long track record. More important is if they can identify why he has struggled (i.e. stuff, mechanics, healthy, pitch selection, bad luck, etc.) I know there are scouts at the bottom of the first round who are drooling at the chance he might have a chance to slip to them.

Comment From Rich Surhoff
Where will Colin Moran go in the first round?

Frankie Piliere: Given the scouting heat I saw in there I'd be shocked if he got out of that 4th-9th range.

Taken from SoxProspects.com

-Lavigne43-
05-08-2013, 12:10 AM
7
RHP Braden ShipleyNevada

ANALYSIS: Boston doesn't pick this high very often and it's not a secret in the industry they'd like to pick a high upside player with big tools. With the new CBA, those types won't fall into the 20's very often, where the Red Sox expect to pick from now on. Manaea and Georgia prep CF Austin Meadows made some sense here earlier in the spring, but I'm told the Sox aren't on Meadows for this pick and Manaea's freefall now looks to last well beyond this pick. Boston is another club that's been bearing down on Moran lately, even if he isn't the high upside type they envisioned getting, and he isn't available in this scenario. Likewise, I'm told the Sox would love to get to get Kohl Stewart at this pick as well and he may well be on the board but not in this scenario. Shipley is a solid consolation prize: a converted infielder new to pitching with an athletic frame and bloodlines (cousin of NFL WR Jordan) that flashes a plus fastball-changeup combo and the makings of an above average breaking ball.

http://sbb.scout.com/2/1289798.html

Seemed like a lot of his mock was his own personal preference.

AI
05-08-2013, 12:15 AM
Been reading a lot about Shipley lately, sounds interesting.

-Lavigne43-
05-08-2013, 12:22 AM
Law mentions him a lot. I could see it if Bryant, Moran, and Frazier are gone. All the other college pitchers seem so bleh. Barnes wouldn't get past pick 5 in this draft.

AI
05-08-2013, 12:43 AM
Athletic pitchers usually have better command and can repeat their delivery rather easily as they develop. If Shipley is a safer pick than say somebody like Frazier, who currently struggles to hit breaking balls, in that he projects as a #2 starter than I guess I'd be fine with the pick. After Appel, Gray and Bryant the rest of the draft is a toss-up.

AI
05-09-2013, 04:25 PM
We picked the wrong year to have the 7th overall pick. This draft is beyond weak.

JMP83
05-09-2013, 04:32 PM
Jim Callis over at BaseballAmerica posted his first mock draft

First, from the intro:


Scouts rate the overall crop of talent as mediocre, just as they did coming into the season. Several of the best college arms, most notably Indiana State lefthander Sean Manaea, have taken a step backward. Thatís bad news for clubs at the top of the draft who covet advanced pitching.

High school hurlers such as righthanders Kohl Stewart (Texas) and Phil Bickford (California) and lefty Trey Ball (Indiana) are flying up draft boards. Yet it remains to be seen how early teams will be willing to take players from whatís considered the draftís riskiest demographic.

San Diego third baseman Kris Bryant, college baseballís runaway home run leader, is the top bat available. Outfielders Clint Frazier and Austin Meadows, who play for different high schools in Loganville, Ga., have lived up to their billing as the best high school position players, but thereís a growing sense that one or both of them could slide out of the first 10 selections.

And for the 7th Pick...


7. RED SOX: Boston has selected this high just once since 1967, getting Trot Nixon with the No. 7 choice in 1993. The Red Sox are looking to maximize their opportunity and will take a high-ceiling talent such as Frazier, Manaea or Stewart. Theyíre also interested in sweet-swinging North Carolina third baseman Colin Moran.

PROJECTED PICK: CLINT FRAZIER.

Appel, Gray, and Bryant are 1, 2, 3 like usual. Followed by Stewart, Shipley, and Reese McGuire (says other teams think Marlins will try and save a little money with the pick).

Link: http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/jim-callis-mock-draft-1-0/

AI
05-09-2013, 05:06 PM
I'm starting to like Shipley or Stewart with our pick. If Frazier is still available it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

-Lavigne43-
05-09-2013, 06:05 PM
We picked the wrong year to have the 7th overall pick. This draft is beyond weak.

The top 7 or so is not that bad compared to the average draft. After that it looks like there's a big drop off. Whoever we pick will probably start off as the #5 prospect in the system behind the obvious big 4. Maybe behind Garin and Owens with how well they have started the season.

Callis is probably the most accurate mocker, take the last 10 years and I would be surprised if he didn't have the best percentage right by a good margin. There's a lot of guesswork involved in the first mock, but he has a good feel at how the top 10 is looking.

Law said the other day that he's hearing a lot of durability questions about Stewart, and he was going to move him down his list. I would be shocked if the Red Sox took him over Frazier if they were both available.

JMP83
05-09-2013, 06:38 PM
I'm pretty much good with any of Frazier, Shipley, and Moran. After that I'm having a much harder time trying to sort through the next tier. Probably would compose of Meadows, Manaea, Stewart, and Stanek. But there's still a month left, so things can still change. Callis had good things to say about Trey Ball, so maybe he can sneak in there.

-Lavigne43-
05-11-2013, 02:16 PM
BA Top 100 http://www.baseballamerica.com/college/2013-top-100-draft-prospects-may-10-jonathan-gray-tops-mark-appel-for-top-sot/
Top 10
1 Jonathan Gray, rhp, Oklahoma
2 Mark Appel, rhp, Stanford
3 Kris Bryant, 3b/of, San Diego
4 Clint Frazier, of, Loganville (Ga.) HS
5 Austin Meadows, of, Grayson HS, Loganville, Ga.
6 Kohl Stewart, rhp, St. Pius X HS, Houston
7 Colin Moran, 3b, North Carolina
8 Braden Shipley, rhp, Nevada
9 Trey Ball, lhp, New Castle (Ind.) HS
10 Sean Manaea, lhp, Indiana State

BGeer091
05-12-2013, 05:24 PM
I'm still hoping we draft Meadows :D

Nomar
05-13-2013, 12:26 PM
I'm still hoping we draft Meadows :D

The Sox aren't interested in him according to most sources.

-Lavigne43-
05-13-2013, 07:08 PM
The Sox aren't interested in him according to most sources.

Which doesn't mean much at this point. They could be saying that just to deceive other teams, or it could be a bad source.

Nomar
05-13-2013, 07:34 PM
Which doesn't mean much at this point. They could be saying that just to deceive other teams, or it could be a bad source.

That's true.

EwanSellars
05-13-2013, 10:20 PM
frazier would be my top choice but id be fine with shipley or stewart

RedSoxtober
05-14-2013, 11:39 AM
The Sox aren't interested in him according to most sources.


Which doesn't mean much at this point. They could be saying that just to deceive other teams, or it could be a bad source.

Their MO has been to basically ignore kids until the last minute. I suspect that anyone speculating about the Sox interest does so based on their contact, when they show up to games, etc.

Nomar
05-14-2013, 02:18 PM
Their MO has been to basically ignore kids until the last minute. I suspect that anyone speculating about the Sox interest does so based on their contact, when they show up to games, etc.

Yeah that's what I've read has been based on. I'm sure they do what they can to limit peoples' knowledge of their true preferences.

BCpatsox18
05-14-2013, 04:58 PM
With the seventh pick, the sox need to maximize potential, not go with the "safe" pick. Taking a player like Moran, who is almost a sure bet to make the major leagues, but may not have the same potential as other players available seems redundant, especially with Cecchini, Middlebrooks, and potentially Bogaerts all manning the hot corner. Same goes for Shipley, who all ive read has good stuff and a #2 ceiling, but the Sox already have Owens, Barnes, Webster, and De La Rosa- all with very similar ceilings. The Red Sox may not pick this high again for a long time, and need to swing for the fences even with the risk involved. Take a Frazier, Meadows, Stewart, or Manaea, all guys who have #1 starter or perennial all-star talent- go for the "safe" picks in later rounds and next year, with a much deeper draft.

-Lavigne43-
05-14-2013, 05:53 PM
Pitchers with #2 ceilings never get repetitive, I'd be fine with that as the pick, that's a great ceiling for a pitcher. The only pitchers who have #1 ceilings are the first two picks, possibly Stewart, and Manaea if he ever gets his stuff back. Personally I think Manaea would be a terrible pick. He came out of nowhere during the cape cod league and has been nowhere near the same since. His velocity is down big and he has weird mechanics. He's someone I would normally want them to look at with their end of the 1st round/supplemental picks, Ranaudo territory.

I don't care what positions we are strong at in the minors, my issue with Moran is that there's a good chance he has to move to 1b. If he plays 1b, his offense will have to be very good for him to be a good player at that position. He doesn't seem to project to be that kind of hitter.

Nomar
05-14-2013, 06:18 PM
Manaea simply wont be our pick. Gray, Appel, Stewart, and Shipley are the top pitchers. Bryant, Frazier, Meadows, and Moran seem to be the top 4 hitters. No matter what happen one of these guys will fall to us.

Trey Ball, Stanek and Jonathan Denney could be added to these too, all of which seem smarter picks than Manaea at this point. Manaea was spectacular, but seems like he was unfortunately a flash in the can. As for his durability, there's concern with his mechanics among some, but Keith Law has said he doesn't see them being a problem. Still he's a huge gamble and there's no way he even goes top-10 with all of his red flags right now. He was sitting at 85 like a week ago... horrible.

BCpatsox18
05-14-2013, 07:27 PM
maybe Manaea was a stretch, but all i'm saying is the Sox HAVE to maximize this pick, they can't cheap out and take another Brian Johnson to spread the cash to other picks. On the other hand, I really am not impressed with Shipley, he IS new to pitching, but with the seventh overall pick I just don't see enough from him. I would much prefer one of the HS OFers or Stewart, they seem to be the only ones that may be available when the Red Sox pick that have legit perennial all-star/superstar potential, even if they do carry the highest risk. If they don't sign, you have a top 10 pick next year in what is widely considered a stronger draft

Nomar
05-14-2013, 07:50 PM
maybe Manaea was a stretch, but all i'm saying is the Sox HAVE to maximize this pick, they can't cheap out and take another Brian Johnson to spread the cash to other picks. On the other hand, I really am not impressed with Shipley, he IS new to pitching, but with the seventh overall pick I just don't see enough from him. I would much prefer one of the HS OFers or Stewart, they seem to be the only ones that may be available when the Red Sox pick that have legit perennial all-star/superstar potential, even if they do carry the highest risk. If they don't sign, you have a top 10 pick next year in what is widely considered a stronger draft

The good thing is that if both Frazier and Meadows are gone, theres a chance we could draft Bryant. But that's getting very hypothetical.

-Lavigne43-
05-14-2013, 11:34 PM
No way Bryant gets to us, especially since he hits a homerun every game these days. I'd be surprised if he didn't go #3, no way would he make it past the Indians.

Nomar
05-15-2013, 01:15 PM
No way Bryant gets to us, especially since he hits a homerun every game these days. I'd be surprised if he didn't go #3, no way would he make it past the Indians.

Yeah he has 28 already... that's almost laughable. But regardless my point is that if both of those guys are taken before us then someone else will fall to us. Manaea won't be our pick.

JMP83
05-16-2013, 11:54 AM
Law has released a mock now, Insider only. here's only our selection, which I have to say I'd be pretty disappointed with at this point:


7. Ryne Stanek

Analysis: Stanek came into the year as a top-five pick, struggled with command, but has been showing major velocity of late and holding it deep into games. There's a thought that the Sox are lurking on him and Sean Manaea, since Moran and Bryant will likely be gone and Clint Frazier might be too risky for them at No. 7. If they drafted a little lower, they might consider Alex Gonzalez as well.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9277478/houston-astros-do-not-take-mark-appel-first-mock-draft-2013-mlb-draft

-Lavigne43-
05-16-2013, 12:34 PM
Law is only going to link us to college pitchers and Moran because he is stubborn with the point that they always take college players with their first pick. I'd agree with him if we were picking in the 20's. You can't use past trends when they have never picked this early before.

JMP83
05-16-2013, 12:45 PM
It's apparently Mock Draft day, as both Mayo at mlb.com and Sickels at minorleagueball.com have posted new Mocks.

Mayo:


7. Boston Red Sox: Clint Frazier, OF, Loganville HS (Ga.)
There's been a lot of buzz about the Red Sox hoping Frazier is available for them. His bat, speed and power could play very well at Fenway Park.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130515&content_id=47666630&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb&tcid=tw_article_47666630

And Sickels:


7) Boston Red Sox: Colin Moran, 3B, University of North Carolina: Under this scenario it would be either Moran or Frazier and you could make a case either way. Moran is safer, his upside as a pure hitter is as high as Frazier's upside as a power masher, and he won't need as long in the minors.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/5/16/4335316/2013-mlb-mock-draft-version-two-john-sickels-may-16

goshhhjosh
05-16-2013, 01:41 PM
I'd be happy with Frazier, the Red Sox need a ginger.

Everyone saw that Bobby Kielty's ginger magic produced a World Series in 2007.

BCpatsox18
05-16-2013, 02:40 PM
Im hoping for Frazier, from all I've read he's another dirt dawg, which you can never have enough of. His speed/power combo is impressive as well, and as a righty he can crush the monster here. He needs to learn to hit a curve, but if he can figure out off speed stuff he's a legit .275-.290 35-40hr player. Unlike others, i'm high on Stanek, I think once he has pro coaching he will come a long way, his stuff is as good as any in the draft.

Nomar
05-16-2013, 04:25 PM
If his velocity is up, I prefer Stanek to Moran. With WMB, Cecchini and Bogaerts as 3B depth in our ranks, he's 1B bound with a bat that wont be anything special there. I'd like Frazier or Meadows at our pick primarily.

AI
05-16-2013, 04:45 PM
We need a ginger. Thanks for the laugh man, I honestly needed it today. :laugh2:

goshhhjosh
05-16-2013, 08:56 PM
We need a ginger. Thanks for the laugh man, I honestly needed it today. :laugh2:

Anytime brother.

goshhhjosh
05-17-2013, 09:07 AM
I would really like Clint Frazier.

A gushing blurb about Frazier:


Frazier made a huge impression in his showdown with Meadows in mid-March, belting a pair of home runs, including a mammoth shot over the outfield lights. Some see Frazier as a Mike Trout-like talent who is ready to play at the big league level. He is one of the national leaders in home runs with 16. Most mock drafts have Frazier going somewhere in the top five.

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/6hufW97-Ykmprm_nujyTtA/top-10-high-school-outfielders-for-the-2013-mlb-draft.htm

Via Sporting News:


Where will he be drafted?: Baseball America (No. 7 to Red Sox); Sports Illustrated (No. 4 to Twins): SB Nation (No. 9 to Pirates); Scout (No. 4 to Twins)

What they're saying as far as who the Red Sox will pick:

"Frazier has the best bat speed in the entire draft class and produces easy plus raw power in-game at the amateur level ... with reps and pro instruction, Frazier's is a profile that could produce a high average and 25 plus home runs a year, with plenty of additional doubles. He's solid out of the box and runs the bases well." — Baseball Prospectus' Nick J. Faleris

"(A) more advanced bat than most of the high schoolers in the class, with a quick, short stroke that generates more power than you might expect given his frame. The lack of physicality might concern some, but his collection of tools should keep him high on Draft boards all spring." — Mayo

What the pundits are saying:

Jim Callis (Baseball America) - Clint Frazier
Dave Perkin (SI) - Colin Moran
John Sickels (SB) - Colin Moran
Kylie McDaniel (Scout.com) - Braden Shipley

It looks like Moran is favored among the pundits. I'm smitten with Frazier, but wouldn't mind Denney.

AI
05-17-2013, 02:48 PM
Appel, Gray, Bryant, Frazier, Shipley, Stewart. I want one of those 6.

Nomar
05-17-2013, 03:42 PM
I'm not big on Moran, but just saw someone compare him to Joey Votto. Yes, they were completely serious...

-Lavigne43-
05-17-2013, 04:18 PM
I think he has put up a ridiculously high OBP, but you can't compare anyone to Votto.

j-bay
05-17-2013, 04:35 PM
When was the last time we groomed a power bat in the 1st round, and that player became an all star?

-Lavigne43-
05-17-2013, 05:17 PM
The only player the last 10 years we have drafted in the first round that was considered a power guy was Jason Place. Usually the position players we draft in the first round played CF or SS.

goshhhjosh
05-17-2013, 08:55 PM
I'm not big on Moran, but just saw someone compare him to Joey Votto. Yes, they were completely serious...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1638770-2013-mlb-mock-draft-the-star-each-projected-first-round-pick-most-resembles#/articles/1638770-2013-mlb-mock-draft-the-star-each-projected-first-round-pick-most-resembles/page/8

This article on bleacher report is probably what you saw. I hate player comparisons which is why I'm glad soxprospects gave up on it.

The same article compares Jonathan Denney to Salty...STAY AWAY!!!

Nomar
05-18-2013, 10:54 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1638770-2013-mlb-mock-draft-the-star-each-projected-first-round-pick-most-resembles#/articles/1638770-2013-mlb-mock-draft-the-star-each-projected-first-round-pick-most-resembles/page/8

This article on bleacher report is probably what you saw. I hate player comparisons which is why I'm glad soxprospects gave up on it.

The same article compares Jonathan Denney to Salty...STAY AWAY!!!

Lol this wasn't it. **** BR in general. I saw it on the MLB network some guy talking about him.

EwanSellars
05-18-2013, 03:34 PM
i really hope we can get Frazier or a high upside pitcher im not too high on Moran i have a feeling the top 4 picks will be
1.appel
2.gray
3.Bryant
4.stewart

I just hope we can get frazier or shipley tbh

Nomar
05-18-2013, 04:01 PM
If it's Moran or Shipley I'd go Moran honestly. There's a better chance he pans out as a 3B and becomes at least big time trade bait than there is that Shipley becomes a #2 pitcher it would seem.

Shipley has been speculated a #6 because he will be an easy sign and allow for financial flexibility later. Were going to go big with the #7 pick. We won't have one like it again any time soon so we need to cash out on it now. I don't see Shipley as a possibility for us really. I'd say the most likely three for the #7 are Frazier, Moran, and Meadows, but that's just how I see it. I don't think any pitcher who will be on the board at 7 is a more worthy gamble than those 3. Some mocks have Stanek and Manaea going in the late teens to mid-20's now, and Shipley doesn't have the ceiling we'd look for at the 7th pick. This draft is thin in fron of the rotation pitching, and assuming we got with whoever we feel is the most talented player I don't see how it's a pitcher unless Stewart drops to us and then it's still not a sure thing we take him.

As for myself, I still hope we go with Frazier. Everything about him screams star, he just needs to watch his K's and learn to hit off-speed stuff better (which isn't too alarming to me because in HS you can get by on waiting for fastballs and crushing them).

-Lavigne43-
05-18-2013, 05:20 PM
Shipley has a very good ceiling though. The guy throws mid-90's+, and has a good change and curve. He sounds like he would be at Barnes level as a prospect. Maybe that sounds disappointing since Barnes was picked 19th, but Barnes fell big time in an extremely deep draft.

Moran just seems like a guy whose potential is a good solid hitter, a type of player that's not that hard to find in free agency or trades. What's his absolute ceiling, a Nick Swisher type hitter?

AI
05-18-2013, 07:57 PM
I like Shipley over Moran as well.

JMP83
05-18-2013, 10:55 PM
Shipley has a very good ceiling though. The guy throws mid-90's+, and has a good change and curve. He sounds like he would be at Barnes level as a prospect. Maybe that sounds disappointing since Barnes was picked 19th, but Barnes fell big time in an extremely deep draft.

Moran just seems like a guy whose potential is a good solid hitter, a type of player that's not that hard to find in free agency or trades. What's his absolute ceiling, a Nick Swisher type hitter?

With a .300+ AVG, yeah, probably. Which I'd personally be very happy with at 7th, but maybe I'm the only one.

Nomar
05-18-2013, 11:27 PM
Shipley has a very good ceiling though. The guy throws mid-90's+, and has a good change and curve. He sounds like he would be at Barnes level as a prospect. Maybe that sounds disappointing since Barnes was picked 19th, but Barnes fell big time in an extremely deep draft.

Moran just seems like a guy whose potential is a good solid hitter, a type of player that's not that hard to find in free agency or trades. What's his absolute ceiling, a Nick Swisher type hitter?

I know you didn't put a lot of thought into that, but they're pretty darn different. Moran is a high average type guy who is very disciplined. He's pretty similar to Cecchini offensively really although his power is probably a little better currently. Absolute ceiling for him, and I mean furthest stretch, would be like Joe Mauer (excluding 09 where he went ape on the whole MLB). Shipley is a reach at #7 though. Everybody has Moran higher than him on their charts, it's unanimous. I don't even want either, but I think we'd take Moran before Shipley. Regardless... Frazier please.

-Lavigne43-
05-19-2013, 12:57 PM
I meant it more in a general sense, a hitter with a good OBP and ~20 homerun power. Can't really tell what type of hitter they are until they play in the minors.

Shipley isn't a reach at #7. I think Law has him 6th and Moran around 10. BA has Moran 7th and Shipley 8th. Shipley is generally considered the 3rd best college pitcher now.

Nomar
05-19-2013, 01:07 PM
I meant it more in a general sense, a hitter with a good OBP and ~20 homerun power. Can't really tell what type of hitter they are until they play in the minors.

Shipley isn't a reach at #7. I think Law has him 6th and Moran around 10. BA has Moran 7th and Shipley 8th. Shipley is generally considered the 3rd best college pitcher now.

Yeah they do you're right, but whenever they talk about him there they make it seem like he'd help those teams save money for later rounds. I'm not going to cry if we take him or anything, but Frazier and even Meadows have star-power and I'd rather take the gamble on them then take Shipley or Moran.

MiamiBoy77
05-19-2013, 09:47 PM
meadows or frazier please. we have so many gritty tough guys in the minors right now, lets get someone with star potential

AI
05-19-2013, 10:57 PM
I've been on the Frazier bandwagon since day one, but, I do like Shipley quite a bit.

He might be a more athletic version of Barnes with better control.

goshhhjosh
05-20-2013, 08:32 AM
I've been on the Frazier bandwagon since day one, but, I do like Shipley quite a bit.

He might be a more athletic version of Barnes with better control.

#TeamGingerPower

I have a feeling that either the Indians or Marlins will take him :sigh:

Just saw a couple off the wall mocks that had Frazier dropping to the Pirates at 9 or to the New York Mets...the same mock that had Frazier to the Pirates had Shipley to the Red Sox. The mock that had Frazier going to the Mets had the Red Sox drafting DJ Peterson...

goshhhjosh
05-20-2013, 08:40 AM
In John Sickels latest draft he has Frazier slipping to the Pirates at 9. He has Meadows going at 5 to the Indians, Miami going for Renfroe at 6, and the Red Sox drafting Moran.

However, he states this about the Red Sox pick:


7) Boston Red Sox: Colin Moran, 3B, University of North Carolina: Under this scenario it would be either Moran or Frazier and you could make a case either way. Moran is safer, his upside as a pure hitter is as high as Frazier's upside as a power masher, and he won't need as long in the minors.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/5/16/4335316/2013-mlb-mock-draft-version-two-john-sickels-may-16

JMP83
05-20-2013, 12:39 PM
With the caveat that the Red Sox aren't known for telegraphing their moves and there are two weeks left until the draft, it seems that the Sox are targeting, aside from the Top 3 (Appel, Gray, Bryant), Moran and Frazier, and will take whichever one slides down.

I'm curious as to their level of interest in Stewart and Meadows, and whether they'd even be considered if both Moran and Frazier are gone, or if they go with someone like Shipley instead.

AI
05-20-2013, 01:50 PM
I think it's likely we draft one out of the following 3: Moran, Frazier or Shipley.

Nomar
05-20-2013, 03:27 PM
I think a lot of mocks have Stewart at 4, but it would be interesting to see if the Sox would rather have a HS arm or one closer to the bigs. (Shipley being the closer one)

Nomar
05-20-2013, 05:41 PM
Anyone put thought into who you think we'd look at in the 2nd round?

BCpatsox18
05-20-2013, 06:42 PM
If Frazier or Meadows is available at #7 and you take Moran or Shipley, you will regret it. Not saying Moran and Shipley won't be solid big leaguers, but definitely not stars like Meadows and Frazier have the talent to be

BCpatsox18
05-20-2013, 06:54 PM
Also, the Red Sox are known for not tipping their hands. They had almost no contact with Pat Light last year, to the point where he told other teams they weren't interested in him. Because of that, I have a strong feeling if Frazier is not there, we're taking Meadows. Don't be surprised if Austin Wilson is taken here either, BIG time potential, he really needs to be removed from Stanford and put into a pro game, I think he'll flourish if he gets here.

EwanSellars
05-20-2013, 07:02 PM
i think frazier and meadows are more likely than moran since moran is a 3rd basemen that might have to slide to 1st and might not have the best bat other than average i really want frazier because i think he has star potential and will be able to mash the monster

bruins>habs
05-21-2013, 08:00 AM
I really want this Frazier kid the more i read about him and watch youtube clips. Question, With all these projections of him being capable of being a player with this star potential, shouldn't he be a top 3 guy?

JMP83
05-21-2013, 08:50 AM
I really want this Frazier kid the more i read about him and watch youtube clips. Question, With all these projections of him being capable of being a player with this star potential, shouldn't he be a top 3 guy?

He definitely got Top 3 consideration early in the season, but as Appel, Gray, and Bryant kept dominating all year, he kinda fell out of that a little, since they're more developed through college. Plus, he had some shoulder tendinitis this spring, so some scouts were a little concerned that he'd end up in LF, although I think that's overblown.

I mean, he is still in high school, and there have been questions brought up about how his pitch recognition is pretty raw, so he'll need to learn that. But he's been solidly Top 5 all year.

RedSoxtober
05-21-2013, 09:38 AM
I really want this Frazier kid the more i read about him and watch youtube clips. Question, With all these projections of him being capable of being a player with this star potential, shouldn't he be a top 3 guy?

Short of having a "can't miss" label like Bryce Harper, the top hitters tend to fall below the top arms in any MLB draft. Hell, even Trout was drafted at #25 and he was pretty well regarded even then. Part of his (Trout's) position in the draft has to do with greater uncertainty with HS hitters.

mooz
05-21-2013, 11:28 AM
After listening to all of your excitement over Frazier and Meadows and also looking up some youtube videos myself on the two, if we don't get one we may need to change this thread's title to "2013 MLB Draft Depression".

Nomar
05-21-2013, 12:27 PM
Keith Law called Shipley's changeup plus-plus

goshhhjosh
05-21-2013, 12:51 PM
Keith Law called Shipley's changeup plus-plus

But would Shipley (talent-wise) be compared to the likes of a Ranaudo, Barnes, or Webster? I know you can never have enough pitching and stating that anyone who's drafted is definitely going to be a star in the Bigs is tough, but I think I'd like it if the Red Sox were able to get a power hitting outfielder in the draft.

To me, this is the reason why I would go with Meadows or Frazier - preferably Frazier.

Law states that Frazier's bat speed is some of the best he's seen out of an amateur. Sounds like he has a cannon for an arm (clocked at 98MPH from the outfield.)

It's rare that the Red Sox are able to draft so high (thanks Bobby V) so I think they need to maximize this pick and go for Frazier assuming he's available.

-Lavigne43-
05-21-2013, 12:55 PM
After listening to all of your excitement over Frazier and Meadows and also looking up some youtube videos myself on the two, if we don't get one we may need to change this thread's title to "2013 MLB Draft Depression".

Reminds me of Jay Bell a couple years ago. Everyone was drooling over him and his youtube videos a couple years ago. This led to everyone being pissed that we drafted Henry Owens and JBJr instead.

I can't see them drafting Meadows. He seems way too raw for a top ten pick. At this point I would be surprised if it wasn't one of Frazier, Moran, or Shipley. Stewart would be a darkhorse if they really like him. His durability concerns and the rarity of them picking a HS pitcher first makes me doubtful they take him. The nightmare scenario for them would probably be those 3 going 4-5-6.

-Lavigne43-
05-21-2013, 01:01 PM
But would Shipley (talent-wise) be compared to the likes of a Ranaudo, Barnes, or Webster? I know you can never have enough pitching and stating that anyone who's drafted is definitely going to be a star in the Bigs is tough, but I think I'd like it if the Red Sox were able to get a power hitting outfielder in the draft.

To me, this is the reason why I would go with Meadows or Frazier - preferably Frazier.

Law states that Frazier's bat speed is some of the best he's seen out of an amateur. Sounds like he has a cannon for an arm (clocked at 98MPH from the outfield.)

It's rare that the Red Sox are able to draft so high (thanks Bobby V) so I think they need to maximize this pick and go for Frazier assuming he's available.

Shipley is in that category. To me the scouting reports on him sound like a more refined Barnes. I believe Barnes had a few more MPH on his fastball, but his changeup was raw. Red Sox love pitchers with changeups too. Barnes would probably be picked by the Twins or Indians in this draft.

Nomar
05-21-2013, 01:38 PM
Shipley is in that category. To me the scouting reports on him sound like a more refined Barnes. I believe Barnes had a few more MPH on his fastball, but his changeup was raw. Red Sox love pitchers with changeups too. Barnes would probably be picked by the Twins or Indians in this draft.

Be careful with the word "refined". He just started pitching recently and because of that he lacks the feel for pitching that most others do by the time they get drafted. His changeup is great, but I would say that's more of a testament to his stuff.

To answer Josh: I'd rather take a chance and draft Frazier who could be a top 10 spec than Shipley who probably would be in the Barnes range although maybe a bit better than him.

-Lavigne43-
05-21-2013, 02:12 PM
Be careful with the word "refined". He just started pitching recently and because of that he lacks the feel for pitching that most others do by the time they get drafted. His changeup is great, but I would say that's more of a testament to his stuff.

To answer Josh: I'd rather take a chance and draft Frazier who could be a top 10 spec than Shipley who probably would be in the Barnes range although maybe a bit better than him.

Stuff wise. He's probably just a thrower, and I don't know how his command is. But stuff wise he sounds more developed then Barnes was when we drafted him. Barnes pretty much only had a fastball and curve when we drafted him, the changeup was something they had to work with him on. Shipley already has 3 good pitches.

BCpatsox18
05-21-2013, 02:22 PM
Really don't want Shipley, raw college pitcher with good not great upside-not worth the seventh pick. Meadows is raw but extremely talented and just turned 18. Frazier is the dream scenario and Moran wouldn't be terrible.

bruins>habs
05-21-2013, 05:08 PM
Since we pick early in every round, is this an important draft even after our first pick?

AI
05-21-2013, 05:48 PM
I'd be pissed if we took Meadows over Shipley.

EwanSellars
05-21-2013, 06:29 PM
anyone know any good options we might have in the 2nd round? around what number overall is it?

Nomar
05-21-2013, 06:33 PM
anyone know any good options we might have in the 2nd round? around what number overall is it?

45. I think the 3rd round is 81.

EwanSellars
05-21-2013, 06:33 PM
i think some good options in the 2nd round are bobby wahl jonathan crawford and maybe that kid drew ward im pretty sure he's like a sophomore/junior in high school and id be pretty pumped if we got someone who is so young with so much potential

EwanSellars
05-21-2013, 06:33 PM
thanks nomar

Nomar
05-21-2013, 06:36 PM
Manaea injured. Could he fall to 45? Would we take him there? Would he sign there? All interesting questions, but the details of his injury are very foggy so far.

RedSoxtober
05-22-2013, 09:39 AM
Since we pick early in every round, is this an important draft even after our first pick?
The revamped FA compensation puts the Sox' second pick fairly close to where they've drafted some quality players in the past: Pat Light (37), Owens (36), JBJr (40), Ranaudo (39), Bryan Price (45), Hagadone (55). With that in mind this year is like many past drafts BUT with a bonus top-10 overall pick.


Manaea injured. Could he fall to 45? Would we take him there? Would he sign there? All interesting questions, but the details of his injury are very foggy so far.
I've heard him falling, possibly into the 20s, but I doubt it's out of the first round.

BCpatsox18
05-22-2013, 10:13 AM
I'd be pissed if we took Meadows over Shipley.

I'm the exact opposite; guys like Shipley fall into the 20's (where I assume the sox will be picking next year and beyond) all they time (I.E. Matt Barnes). Talents like Meadows do not fall into the 20's, and there is a reason. Basically, the Red Sox have this one opportunity to take a real, bonafide top end talent, and if they use it to take a player like Shipley who's talent can be matched not easily but easier, i will not be a happy camper. My list by who I would like to see at 7 (not including Appel, Bryant, or Gray who won't be there without a miracle)

1. Clint Frazier- top end power potential, very good speed and a cannon arm. Needs to learn to hit the curve, but everything else screams star

2. Austin Meadows- fantastic speed, not much present power, but great power potential. Great frame (6-3, 200) with very good defensive tools. Raw, but just turned 18 and could end up better than Frazier when all is said and done

3. Kohl Stewart- Good pitchers body (6-3, 195) with room to grow; number 1. type stuff, questions with durability, but overall the third most promising pitcher in this draft with the potential to be the best in the long term

4. Colin Moran- good body, very good present hit tool. Doesn't have great feet and may have to move to first, but if the power grows into the body that won't be a problem

5. Jonathan Denney- good defensive tools, big body (6-2, 200) with a soft glove. The real promise is in the bat, which has been compared to Wil Myers in his prep days. potential for above average hit tool and power tool, and may be moved off catcher to preserve them.

6. Braden Shipley- just recently turned to pitching, not a lot of mileage on the arm. Because of this is on the raw side for a college pitcher, but the stuff is there with a mid 90's fastball and a plus changeup to be a no.2 or no.3 at the big league level

7. Dominic Smith- very good defensive first baseman with a cannon arm that may translate to the outfield. On the younger side even for HS draftees, but it has been said he has the best high school bat in the nation, with the potential to grow into a guy that hits for both average and power in the long term. On the smaller side for a first baseman/power hitter, which is cause for concern (6, 200)

8. Austin Wilson- Great power hitters body (6-5, 245) with fantastic potential. Has not had the success at Stanford many thought he would coming out of HS, but the potential is still there. Very athletic considering his size, and once out of the not-so-hitter-friendly Stanford atmosphere may flourish into one of the better players in this draft

9. Hunter Renfroe- Very good pop in the bat, one of the better power hitters in the draft. Quick wrists at the plate can turn on any pitch and drive it out of the park. Good enough speed to stay in center defensively, with a cannon arm (clocked at 96mph as a reliever in HS)

10. Trey Ball- Tall, skinny player (6-6, 180) without a defined position as of yet. Has hit 93mph from the mound, with a developing curve and change. From the plate, has the potential to be a big power hitter if he can grow into his frame. If Ball can add weight without losing his athleticism he has the chance to be one of the top players from this draft, whether that is from the mound or the plate.

goshhhjosh
05-22-2013, 01:40 PM
BCpatsox18, we value your posts and your opinions/information, but could you please put some spacing in your posts to make it easier to read and look cleaner? For instance in your last post, just put a space between your ten-numbered players. Thanks bud.

mooz
05-22-2013, 02:44 PM
BCpatsox18, we value your posts and your opinions/information, but could you please put some spacing in your posts to make it easier to read and look cleaner? For instance in your last post, just put a space between your ten-numbered players. Thanks bud.

Yeah, awesome breakdown and analysis but the giant wall of text almost scared me away from reading it.

BCpatsox18
05-22-2013, 03:53 PM
Yeah that's my bad, I was doing it from my phone and couldn't figure it out. Thanks for the compliments though!

Nomar
05-22-2013, 04:35 PM
The revamped FA compensation puts the Sox' second pick fairly close to where they've drafted some quality players in the past: Pat Light (37), Owens (36), JBJr (40), Ranaudo (39), Bryan Price (45), Hagadone (55). With that in mind this year is like many past drafts BUT with a bonus top-10 overall pick.


I've heard him falling, possibly into the 20s, but I doubt it's out of the first round.

I dont know if we're on the same page, the injury just happened yesterday and it's shoulder-related too. I've heard of him falling into the 20's (maybe) before the injury even happened.

-Lavigne43-
05-22-2013, 05:51 PM
Barnes didn't fall into the 20's, he was 19. Guys like Barnes don't fall to 19 often. That was a historically deep draft, and I still don't understand why Barnes fell so far. The college pitchers with #2 ceilings and good floors that fall into the twenties usually are coming off some kind of injury that puts in question their future performance. Ranaudo types. Great highschool players fell all the time in the past. Things are different now with the new rules, but guys like Cechhini, Westmoreland, WMB, were considered top HS talents that fell because of bonus demands. Buttrey might have the highest ceiling out of anyone we drafted last year, and we took him in the 4th. College players go early in the draft.

Meadows just seems way too raw, I can't see them picking him. When someone with his tools is not tearing apart high school competition it means he is a big project.

Callis chat. One really interesting draft development I just saw in it at the end

Mike (Virginia): Is breaking pitch recognition Clint Frazier's achilles heel or can he develop this skill adequately at the next level?

Jim Callis: He might need to tone down his approach a little bit at the next level, but he’s young and no reason he can’t. At his level, not like he’s going to see a lot of quality breaking balls to hone his recognition skills or ability to deal with them. Put it this way: I’m not terribly worried. He’s the most talented HS player in this draft.

Mike (Virginia): Which college player gets taken first: Shipley or Moran?

Jim Callis: Moran. Right now, I think he goes No. 5 to the Indians. The Astros and Cubs are looking at him but I don’t see him as a top-two pick. Shipley likely will be the third college arm taken, could see him at No. 6 to the Marlins.

Mike (Virginia): How does Trey Ball compare to Henry Owens coming out of HS?

Jim Callis: Both are long, lean athletic guys, but Ball had more power to his stuff and accordingly will get drafted higher. Likely top 10 pick.

mike (kc): What are the chances that clint frazier falls to the royals? If so do you think they would take him?

Jim Callis: The Astros are kicking the tires a little on Frazier at No. 1, but I don’t think he’ll go in the first five picks. The Marlins or Red Sox could take him, with Boston being more likely. Good chance he’s there for the Royals but I think they’d go for a pitcher.

Josh Meyer (Fort Dodge, IA): Is Frazier or Meadows more likely to end up with the Twins at #4?

Jim Callis: Sorry, another phone call, but I’m back … Really don’t think either is in the mix for the Twins. If Minnesota takes a HS bat, it will be Reese McGuire.

EverySawxFan (Around the world): Do you think there is really a chance the Red Sox go "safe" with the 7th pick? I would be bummed if that happened.

Jim Callis: Very little chance. The Red Sox have picked this high once since 1967 and they will take advantage of the rare opporunity to take a high-ceiling guy. I bet it comes down to Stewart, Frazier and Ball. Moran would make them think about him, but he won’t get to No. 8.

Bret (Toronto): Kiley McDaniel tweets that there is real momentum to Colin Moran going #1 to Houston. How would this affect the picks following it?

Jim Callis: I can’t really see Moran going 1-1. But if he did, it might mean that one of Gray or Appel would get to the Twins at 4, Stewart would get to the Red Sox at 7 and both Frazier and Meadows could fall out of the top 10.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/draft-and-prospects-chat-with-jim-callis/

I read something about their GM or scouting director being at a UNC game a couple days ago. That would be nuts, but they would save a ton of money for later picks. Interesting that he thinks the Rockies will pick Bryant no matter what, and that we would pick Stewart over Frazier. It's probably just a negotiating move to lower a prearranged deal though.

grandsalami
05-22-2013, 05:59 PM
RT @kileymcd: Clint Frazier is [red sox] #1 target. Colin Moran & Braden Shipley high too

j-bay
05-22-2013, 06:14 PM
We are all Ginger Nation right now. We all want the Ginger kid.

Nomar
05-22-2013, 07:38 PM
I'd be plenty happy with Stewart. He has the potential for three plus pitches.

EwanSellars
05-22-2013, 08:53 PM
clint frazier is great but kohl stewart would be almost as good those are the two players i want the ost and maybe shipley coming in close to that

RedSoxtober
05-23-2013, 08:42 AM
I dont know if we're on the same page, the injury just happened yesterday and it's shoulder-related too. I've heard of him falling into the 20's (maybe) before the injury even happened.

You're right, my bad. I hadn't heard about that. If it's not structural damage, though, I doubt that it'd hurt him too much.

goshhhjosh
05-23-2013, 11:58 AM
We are all Ginger Nation right now. We all want the Ginger kid.

J-Bay stop trying to take all of my jokes. I believe I was the first to mention ginger/ginger power in this thread, suck it Trebek.

Nomar
05-23-2013, 12:01 PM
J-Bay stop trying to take all of my jokes. I believe I was the first to mention ginger/ginger power in this thread, suck it Trebek.

In this thread sure, but AI and I had a ginger discussion in the prospect thread in the fall when Frazier started to get a lot of recognition.

goshhhjosh
05-23-2013, 12:51 PM
In this thread sure, but AI and I had a ginger discussion in the prospect thread in the fall when Frazier started to get a lot of recognition.

Are we starting a ginger fan club?

mooz
05-23-2013, 01:40 PM
Are we starting a ginger fan club?

I'll join if it's called The Gingerbread Men. Otherwise I have no interest.

RedSoxtober
05-23-2013, 01:51 PM
I'll join if it's called The Gingerbread Men. Otherwise I have no interest.

Then I'm gonna be Ginger Baker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Baker). You gotta have a Ginger Baker to get Gingerbread, right?

(That one's for Bags... probably one of the few who'll get it without following the link).

AI
05-23-2013, 02:36 PM
Ginger Frazier gives me a Bonner (http://img.kendincos.com/Wtx/fjp/tdhnrvztxdhhl.jpg).

mooz
05-23-2013, 03:00 PM
Then I'm gonna be Ginger Baker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Baker). You gotta have a Ginger Baker to get Gingerbread, right?

(That one's for Bags... probably one of the few who'll get it without following the link).


Ginger Frazier gives me a Bonner (http://img.kendincos.com/Wtx/fjp/tdhnrvztxdhhl.jpg).

Ok so you can be Ginger Baker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Baker), but if Ginger Frazier gives AI a Bonner (http://img.kendincos.com/Wtx/fjp/tdhnrvztxdhhl.jpg), he might Cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_%28band%29) all over the Gingerbread (http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/young-cook-holding-bread-28004836.jpg).

RedSoxtober
05-23-2013, 04:20 PM
Ok so you can be Ginger Baker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Baker), but if Ginger Frazier gives AI a Bonner (http://img.kendincos.com/Wtx/fjp/tdhnrvztxdhhl.jpg), he might Cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_%28band%29) all over the Gingerbread (http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/young-cook-holding-bread-28004836.jpg).

Damn. Well played, mooz!

-Lavigne43-
05-23-2013, 05:31 PM
I turned on the tv only to see Moran spray a hit to left on NESN. I guess they have the rights to the ACC tournament.

Law chat

Ryan (Denver)

Pretty much every mock draft I've seen has the same 3 guys in the same order at the top. Do you think there is any chance that the Astros or Cubs take Bryant or another bat?
Klaw (1:10 PM)

My mock explicitly mentioned Moran as a candidate at the first pick. I think there's at least a 25% chance he's the guy there, maybe higher. That would jumble the top five a little - the Cubs would take Appel, then the Rockies might take Gray over Bryant, and Cleveland would hope to get Bryant if the Twins stick with Stewart.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/48054

goshhhjosh
05-23-2013, 05:58 PM
Ok so you can be Ginger Baker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Baker), but if Ginger Frazier gives AI a Bonner (http://img.kendincos.com/Wtx/fjp/tdhnrvztxdhhl.jpg), he might Cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_%28band%29) all over the Gingerbread (http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/young-cook-holding-bread-28004836.jpg).

:clap: Awesome job. Great post.

EwanSellars
05-23-2013, 07:00 PM
really hoping that could be true because im not a fan of moran and it would make it a lot easier for frazier to make it to us

Nomar
05-23-2013, 08:39 PM
Doesn't make a huge difference for us. One way its Frazier, Shipley or Moran and another its Frazier, Shipley or Stewart.

goshhhjosh
05-24-2013, 08:31 AM
Turned on the tele this morning and caught a couple minutes of MLB Networks short blurb about the draft. They showed some swings by Clint Frazier and Meadows throwing from the outfield.

Then the part I loved the most was when they were asking Harold Reynolds who he liked the most in the draft and he said, "Tim Anderson. He might be the best athlete in the draft." Then Harold wanted to prove that he was such a great athlete by showing a grainy, blurry cell phone video of him just dunking a basketball. Nothing spectacular, just a dunk...my question is, why?

I'm going to draft this kid because he can dunk a basketball...got it.

mooz
05-24-2013, 09:05 AM
Damn. Well played, mooz!


:clap: Awesome job. Great post.

Glad you guys enjoyed that.

On a serious note though, not that I'm an amazing analyst or anything but Frazier, Shipley, Moran or Stewart all look like they'd be excellent choices. I like what I've found on Meadows as well. I would agree with what a lot are saying about taking a high ceiling guy like Frazier or Meadows before taking an arm though. We won't have an opportunity to draft an impact bat of that caliber for a long time.

-Lavigne43-
05-24-2013, 12:39 PM
Callis 2nd mock

1. Gray
2. Appel
3. Bryant
4. Stewart
5. Moran
6. Shipley
7. Frazier

http://ht.ly/lmkBB

Jim Callis ‏@jimcallisBA 1h
Just like other guys more at No. 7, especially Kohl Stewart. @kyle41987: Do you know why the #RedSox aren't on Meadows? #mlbdraft

Interesting that he thinks Stewart is the primary target. Sounds like the Twins are all in on him if the top 3 go like they should. I think Frazier will be there and that we will pick him. I thought the Twins were the biggest threat to take him. I can't see the Indians taking him, especially if Frazier is expensive, I would be surprised if they didn't take Moran. Marlins are a wild card, they love taking high school players, hopefully he's right about them trying to save money. I could see the Astros taking him to save money, but that would probably just cause Stewart to be available instead.

Nomar
05-24-2013, 02:32 PM
If the Marlins go the money-saving route we're set. We'd either get Stewart or Frazier. I think it makes a lot of sense just going off of Loria's recent moves in general.

I can't lie and say my heart isn't set on Frazier though haha. Either way, I'd love to nab Stewart too.

AI
05-24-2013, 04:09 PM
I'd be fine with Frazier, Stewart or Shipley. Don't want Meadows though

EwanSellars
05-24-2013, 04:21 PM
Frazier
Shipley
Stewart for me as well is stewart someone that has #1 potential?

Nomar
05-24-2013, 05:02 PM
Frazier
Shipley
Stewart for me as well is stewart someone that has #1 potential?

I'd say #2, but has a slightly better shot at being a #2 than Shipley.

EwanSellars
05-24-2013, 05:20 PM
oh ok then yeah i still have frazier as my number 1 btw stewart is commited to a&m for football and baseball right, he could be a guy we cant sign and end up getting a 2nd pick in the 1st round next year

-Lavigne43-
05-24-2013, 05:23 PM
Stewart has a #1 ceiling, he doesn't have a better shot at being a #2 than Shipley. If he did he would be in Appel-Gray mix.

-Lavigne43-
05-24-2013, 05:25 PM
oh ok then yeah i still have frazier as my number 1 btw stewart is commited to a&m for football and baseball right, he could be a guy we cant sign and end up getting a 2nd pick in the 1st round next year

He would have to wait until his junior year to re-enter the draft. He's signing, he's not going to turn down millions to sit on the bench and watch Manziel play football. He will use that as a negotiating tool, but if there was any belief that he was a tough sign he would not be picked this early.

Nomar
05-24-2013, 05:49 PM
Stewart has a #1 ceiling, he doesn't have a better shot at being a #2 than Shipley. If he did he would be in Appel-Gray mix.

Ok I'll revise my second half to mean Stewarts ceiling is slightly higher. Being in HS there is more risk with him but potentially more reward. I've read at his ceiling he could have three plus pitches. Tough to know how good his command will be.

Nomar
05-24-2013, 06:47 PM
7. BOSTON RED SOX: Boston hasnít selected this high in the draft since it took high school outfielder Trot Nixon with the No. 7 choice in 1993, so its scouting focus has been on high-ceiling prospects. The Red Sox covet Stewart, who could get here if Minnesota doesnít take him. Frazier appears to be Plan B, with Ball and Shipley two more considerations.

PROJECTED PICK: Clint Frazier (Unchanged).


Callis Mock 2.0 5/24

Nomar
05-24-2013, 11:04 PM
@jimcallisba
Updating tweet from this AM: Meadows still in #RedSox mix. Still believe their biggest hope is Kohl Stewart. #mlbdraft

AI
05-27-2013, 02:50 PM
I've actually changed from Frazier to wanting Kohl Stewart now.

AI
05-29-2013, 02:30 AM
We're getting close to draft day and pretty much we know what the teams before us are looking for. Only team that could really shake things up is Houston if they decide to go with somebody like Moran at #1, which is doubtful, but I have read rumblings from guys like Law and Callis that there has been chatter that they might do that.

I expect it to go something like this:

#1 HOU - Gray
#2 CHC - Appel
#3 COL - Bryant
#4 MIN - Stewart
#5 CLE - Moran
#6 MIA - Shipley
#7 BOS - Frazier

If the Twins don't take Stewart, I could see us going with him over Frazier if both make it to us. It will also be interesting to see if Manaea makes it to us in the 2nd round and if we'd nab him there. If he doesn't sign, we get a comp. pick at the same spot next year in what should be a stronger draft.

AI
05-29-2013, 02:54 AM
Who knew Ron Weasley was such a good baseball player?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnXTPoJ-Sh0

RedSoxtober
05-29-2013, 10:13 AM
Who knew Ron Weasley was such a good baseball player?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnXTPoJ-Sh0

Love all the guys standing against the wall and sitting on top of it while he hits. What's the point?

goshhhjosh
05-29-2013, 11:14 AM
Love all the guys standing against the wall and sitting on top of it while he hits. What's the point?

They don't want to pull a Mariano? lol

Love his bat speed...supposedly the best in the draft. I'd be berry berry happy if the Red Sox got Mr. Weasley.

-Lavigne43-
05-29-2013, 11:42 AM
The only pick that seems unpredictable are the Marlins. I've seen plenty of mocks having them pick Shipley, but the Marlins pick high school players in the 1st round at an insane rate.

Nomar
05-29-2013, 12:26 PM
The only pick that seems unpredictable are the Marlins. I've seen plenty of mocks having them pick Shipley, but the Marlins pick high school players in the 1st round at an insane rate.

I've also seen Renfroe, McGuire, Denney, and Peterson mocked there. Crapshoot, I'm just hoping the don't go Frazier.

-Lavigne43-
05-29-2013, 12:43 PM
I've also seen Renfroe, McGuire, Denney, and Peterson mocked there. Crapshoot, I'm just hoping the don't go Frazier.

I hope Frazier is looking for an overslot deal that makes them choose someone else. I don't mind paying a bit more since the depth in this draft looks terrible.

Nomar
05-29-2013, 12:56 PM
I hope Frazier is looking for an overslot deal that makes them choose someone else. I don't mind paying a bit more since the depth in this draft looks terrible.

Agreed. Also if anything weird happens an Stewart falls, I wonder if Miami would take him. He would probably want at least the 6th slot money, but he's an upgrade over Shipley and he's a HS guy which is Miami's MO.

JMP83
05-29-2013, 12:56 PM
I've also seen Renfroe, McGuire, Denney, and Peterson mocked there. Crapshoot, I'm just hoping the don't go Frazier.

Speaking of the Marlins, here comes this tweet:


Kiley McDaniel ‏@kileymcd

Marlins had a big (45 players) workout in Miami today. Austin Meadows only target at #6 in attendance. Good BP showing, may be real option.

Of course, if they start looking at high school OFers....

Nomar
05-29-2013, 12:59 PM
Speaking of the Marlins, here comes this tweet:



Of course, if they start looking at high school OFers....

The thing about this is Meadows should be an easier sign than Frazier. The could go under slot with Meadows potentially and Frazier their spending at least their slot and potentially more. Until I see some actual reporting of them looking at Frazier I'm not going to worry about it.

goshhhjosh
05-29-2013, 12:59 PM
Here's what Callis had to say regarding the Marlins pick:


The industry buzz continues to be that the Marlins will look to save money with their first-round selection. Miami is expected to cut a deal with Shipley or McGuire, with New Mexico corner infielder D.J. Peterson a third option. Frazier and Meadows might factor in here as well.

j-bay
05-29-2013, 01:00 PM
Whoever we get is going to be an all star. Look at some of the players that got drafted at the #7 spot recently.

JMP83
05-29-2013, 01:14 PM
Curious. I don't think I've read anywhere that Meadows was looking to be cheaper than Frazier. They were both ranked more or less the same coming into the season, and while Meadows hasn't hit as well as hoped this Spring, he's still got a lot of tools and projection. Is there something you've read to indicate he'll sign for below slot money and Frazier won't?

goshhhjosh
05-29-2013, 01:16 PM
Whoever we get is going to be an all star. Look at some of the players that got drafted at the #7 spot recently.

Not saying that whoever the Red Sox draft at #7 will or won't be a star, and nothing against you J-Bay, but I think it's kind of ignorant to assume that just because the Red Sox are drafting #7, that they'll have an All-Star on their hands.

Yeah, some recent #7 picks (Kershaw, Harvey, Bailey, Minor, and Tulo) have had a great deal of success, but players can easily go the other way as well. Yea, there's a greater chance that the #7 pick has a higher chance of success, but just as easily they could bust...we'll just wait and see.

j-bay
05-29-2013, 01:28 PM
Not saying that whoever the Red Sox draft at #7 will or won't be a star, and nothing against you J-Bay, but I think it's kind of ignorant to assume that just because the Red Sox are drafting #7, that they'll have an All-Star on their hands.

Yeah, some recent #7 picks (Kershaw, Harvey, Bailey, Minor, and Tulo) have had a great deal of success, but players can easily go the other way as well. Yea, there's a greater chance that the #7 pick has a higher chance of success, but just as easily they could bust...we'll just wait and see.

I agree. I wasn't really meaning it, it was more of a "I hope it happens" comment.

Nomar
05-29-2013, 01:29 PM
I agree. I wasn't really meaning it, it was more of a "I hope it happens" comment.

I hope you happen.

AI
05-29-2013, 03:49 PM
The only pick that seems unpredictable are the Marlins. I've seen plenty of mocks having them pick Shipley, but the Marlins pick high school players in the 1st round at an insane rate.

Nearly every report I've read has the Marlins looking for a college player to save money at that spot. Peterson and Shipley are the names mentioned the most to the Fish, they did work out Meadows though so if they go a HS OF route it would probably be him and not Frazier.

I would be ecstatic if both Kohl Stewart and Frazier made it to our pick, those are the two I want.

AI
05-29-2013, 03:52 PM
The thing about this is Meadows should be an easier sign than Frazier. The could go under slot with Meadows potentially and Frazier their spending at least their slot and potentially more. Until I see some actual reporting of them looking at Frazier I'm not going to worry about it.

Don't think this is actually true. I've read quotes from Frazier himself where he has said that he doesn't care about the money, that he wants to sign as quickly as possible to start his professional career right away. Does this mean he'll take under-slot or is it just "leverage" to try and move up in the draft and get a nice chunk of a bigger slot? Remains to be seen.

j-bay
05-29-2013, 04:24 PM
Jeff Luhnow is taking his lumps as general manager of the Houston Astros, who along with the Miami Marlins are toying with a record-setting pace for futility this season. But if his previous track record as the man in charge of amateur drafts in St. Louis is any indication, Luhnow will get things headed in the right direction through a combination of thorough scouting, sound statistical analysis and a dogged focus on developing from within. Anyone who doubts his credentials might want to take a gander at all the homegrown products on the roster of the Cardinals, who have the best record in baseball.

So it seemed a bit out of character in March when Luhnow hit me with a query that came right out of the Loch Ness Monster school of baseball analysis.

The question came at the end of a long day in Kissimmee, Fla., after the Astros had played the Phillies in a Grapefruit League game. I dropped by Luhnow's office and spent a while talking with him and assistant general manager David Stearns about a wide range of topics -- from Carlos Pena's veteran presence to manager Bo Porter's enthusiasm to the wonders of Jose Altuve. And then, just before I hit the road for West Palm Beach, Luhnow mixed a curveball into the conversation.




"Let me ask you something," he said. "Why don't you think there are more major leaguers with red hair?"




Not the type of question you expect from a front-office executive with a "stat geek" reputation. But I quickly learned there was a reason for it.




The Astros have the first overall pick in the 2013 MLB draft, which will take place June 6-8 in Secaucus, N.J., and among the players they're considering are two with a physical trait that varies from the norm.




One is Clint Frazier, a 6-foot, 190-pound, right-handed hitting outfielder from Loganville, Ga. He has quick hands, a strong throwing arm, eye-catching power … and a bright shock of red hair that blended nicely with the burnt orange jersey he wore at the 2012 Perfect Game national showcase.




The other is Colin Moran, a 6-3, 215-pound, left-handed hitting third baseman from the North Carolina Tar Heels by way of Rye, N.Y. He has an advanced eye, a sweet swing, a big league pedigree as the nephew of B.J. Surhoff… and red hair.




It should be pointed out that Luhnow isn't taking an anti-redhead bias into next week's draft – certainly nothing like the one espoused by Eric Cartman, the "South Park" character who decried the evils of "Ginger-vitis" in a 2005 episode of the popular animated show. As young Eric duly noted in a presentation to his class, gingers "do not have souls," and are similar to vampires in that they must avoid the sun at all costs.




In Luhnow's case, it's more a matter of inquisitiveness and due diligence. When you're making a potential $7 million-plus investment in a player and there's even a smidge of a chance that a certain physical characteristic might play a role in his success or failure, it never hurts to ask.




"Anytime you're going to make a significant personnel decision on behalf of the organization and you're delving into waters that are not that populated, you have to wonder why," Luhnow says. "The answer could be as simple as the percentage of red-headed people in the population. There just aren't that many out there.




"If that's the answer, OK. So be it. But there could be something more to it, and if there is, it's certainly worth exploring. Is it because the parts of world where red-headed people typically come from don't play baseball as much and it's not part of the culture? I don't know the answer to that. Is it because they're fair-skinned and not as durable under the sun? I've heard all kinds of crazy theories. I haven't done anything to verify any of them, to be honest with you. But it certainly is an interesting topic."




Gingers unite




As a redhead who was forced to surrender his major league dreams in his mid-teens, I felt uniquely qualified to address this topic for ESPN.com and the latest edition of Baseball America. I was naturally gifted at fielding ground balls and reasonably quick down the line, but compensated with an inaccurate arm, a weak bat and a tendency to get disoriented by especially high pop flies. Hence, all roads led to sports journalism.




Upon leaving Jeff Luhnow's office, I quickly thought of a few redheads who have had a lasting impact in the game. Red Schoendienst, the patron saint of carrot tops, was a 10-time All-Star with St. Louis and made the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1989. Mark McGwire ranks 10th on baseball's career list with 583 home runs; and Rusty Staub, "Le Grand Orange,'' racked up 2,716 hits over 23 seasons in the U.S. and Canada.




And upon further review, numerous other representatives of Ginger Nation have dotted the baseball landscape since I began following the game as a kid in the late '60s. Boog Powell was a red-headed Paul Bunyan who won an MVP award with the Baltimore Orioles and hit 339 homers. Powell, Staub and Mets third baseman Wayne Garrett passed the baton to Dave Stapleton, Roy Howell and Jerry Don Gleaton in the 1980s, and then to Big Mac, Dan Gladden and Rusty Greer in the '90s. Over the past decade, the list of major league redheads includes Bobby Kielty, Matt Murton, Ryan Dempster, Tommy Hanson, Chad Tracy, Seth McClung, Zach Miner, Barry Enright and Chris Shelton, whose nicknames ranged from "Big Red" to "Red Bull" to "Orange Crush."










No quantitative studies exist to confirm or debunk the notion that redheads are, in fact, under-represented in the majors. If that is, indeed, the case, the answer might come down to raw genetics: There aren't many redheaded big leaguers because there aren't a whole lot of red-haired people in general.




The odds are daunting. About 1 to 2 percent of the world's population has red hair, according to multiple sources. In a 2002 Washington Post story, Joel Garreau wrote, "Between 2 and 6 percent of the U.S. population is redheaded, depending on the estimate and definitions. They are scarcer than lefthanders or gays, almost as scarce as Episcopalians." The percentage of redheads is reportedly higher in Scotland, Ireland and other Western European countries, but athletes in those locales are more likely to be found on a rugby pitch or a soccer field than on a ball field.




If you don't see many redheads at the supermarket or the mall, why would you find them in abundance on the baseball diamond?




"Just go out of your house and look at the next 20 people, and don't count women because they tint their hair a lot," says Tim Wilken, a special assistant to Cubs president Theo Epstein. "Count your next 20 guys and see how many redheads you get. That would be my first, initial thought: How many redheads are there?"




Fair enough. But long-held scouting biases haven't helped. Eddie Bane, a special assistant with the Red Sox and former Angels scouting director, tells the story of an accomplished scout who traveled to see a prospect and had a change of heart for reasons only he could fully understand.




"Years ago, Bob Fontaine Sr. went to a game to cross-check a player in the Midwest, and he looked at a picture of the kid before he got out of the car," Bane says. "He looks at the other guys and says, 'You didn't tell me this kid has red hair. You go in and do what you need to do. I'm staying in the car.' People think it's funny, but it's true. He wouldn't get out of the car to go see a redheaded player."




Calling all gingers




If this brings any solace to redheaded baseball players who might feel they're under siege, athletes in other sports are subject to similar scrutiny. Before the 2011 NFL draft, Sports Illustrated's Peter King interviewed an anonymous head coach who questioned Texas Christian University product Andy Dalton's ability to play quarterback at the highest level. The coach's reservations were rooted less in Dalton's arm strength, pocket presence and his Wonderlic score than in his hair color. It's red.

"Has there ever been a redheaded quarterback in the NFL who's really done well?" the coach said. "It sounds idiotic, but is there any way that could be a factor? We've wondered."




The coach might have been oblivious to Sonny Jurgensen, who made the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1983, or Archie Manning, Carson Palmer or Jeff Garcia, who carved out successful NFL careers in spite of their inherent gingerness. But if football scouts can obsess over a player's time in the three-cone drill, why not his hair color?




Fortunately, the baseball redheads I interviewed bear no psychic scars from a perceived or actual anti-ginger bias. Mark McGwire simply laughed and shrugged when I asked him why he's part of such a rare breed in the game. "I guess it's because there aren't that many redheads on earth, and they're usually over in Ireland," McGwire said. "They don't play baseball over in Ireland."




Mets infielder Justin Turner, who goes by the nickname "Red," had reason to feel right at home when he was chosen out of Cal-Fullerton in the seventh round of the 2006 draft -- by the Cincinnati Reds.



If baseball redheads have their Susan B. Anthony, it's Rex Hudler, a lifelong carrot top who spent 13 seasons in the majors as a scrappy, hustling utility player. Hudler knows what it's like to be called Howdy Doody, or Ron Howard, or even Ronald McDonald. During his time in the big leagues, fans gave him grief because he had a name like the family pooch, and his teammates teased him on general principle.




"When I was in St. Louis, the guys all gave Red Schoendienst a hard time and said I was his illegitimate son," Hudler says. "If I was a starter and a big stud, Red would have claimed me. But I was a utility guy, so Red would tell everybody, 'Hell no, he's not mine.'"





Hudler, now a broadcaster with the Kansas City Royals, is convinced that baseball needs more redheads. So when he sees earnest little carrot tops waiting for autographs, he walks over and tells them their freckles are "angel kisses," and encourages them to play catch in the backyards with their dads.




As Hudler continues his one-man crusade to advance the cause of Ginger Nation, he'll quietly be rooting for the future Clint Fraziers and Colin Morans of the world. But unless the gene pool miraculously expands, they'll be the exception rather than the norm.




"There's a need for more redheaded big league ballplayers," Hudler says. "Or how about just people? We just need more redheads. I was a little bit hurt when my wife's genes dominated my four kids. I've got one blond, three with brown hair and no redheads. It took me a few years to get over that. But it's like my wife told me -- 'Hud, God made them. You didn't have anything to do with that.'"

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9320113/mlb-draft-mystery-where-redheads

Nomar
05-29-2013, 04:33 PM
Orange Crush. That has potential for sure.

AI
05-29-2013, 05:06 PM
T Ham (Napa, CA): Who goes off the board first, Frazier or Meadows?
Jim Callis: On talent, I think more teams prefer Frazier. Hearing rumblings that Meadows may do a deal that would get him picked first, though.

This has Miami written all over it.


Bobby (Cape Cod): If the Red Sox had a choice between Stewart and Frazier, who they both seem to be very high on, who do you think they would go with? (I know Stewart likely won't be there though)
Jim Callis: Stewart. I think they view him as the realistic best-case scenario. If the Twins don't take him at No. 4, I think he gets to No. 7.

I agree with Callis. MIN is the only team that would prevent us from getting Stewart.


Tony (Youngstown, Oh): any truth to the rumors Clevelands taking Trey Ball?
Jim Callis: If they take a pitcher, I think it would be Shipley or Ball.

Hmm, interesting. I was thinking CLE would be the team to pick up Moran.

Nomar
05-29-2013, 05:23 PM
This has Miami written all over it.



I agree with Callis. MIN is the only team that would prevent us from getting Stewart.



Hmm, interesting. I was thinking CLE would be the team to pick up Moran.

He said if they "take a pitcher", but Cleveland is known to want a college bat.

Personally I want Miami to take Meadows. It would give us more leverage in talks with Frazier, and prevent him from falling to Toronto.

And in my opinion whatever Minnesota is putting out in terms of who theyre interested in is just a smokescreen. They will take Stewart. He makes too much sense for them to pass on.

-Lavigne43-
05-29-2013, 05:35 PM
Those rumors are probably one of their backup plans if Moran goes #1 and Bryant goes 3-4.

Gray-Appel-Bryant-Stewart-Moran just makes total sense right now for the top 5. If that's not the top 5 it will be because the Astros shake things up like they did last year.

AI
05-29-2013, 05:35 PM
Pretty clear that our top 2 targets are the 2 HS players with the highest upside, Stewart and Frazier.

I'm guessing Ben will be happy if either one falls to him at #7.

AI
05-29-2013, 05:36 PM
Gray-Appel-Bryant-Stewart-Moran just makes total sense right now for the top 5. If that's not the top 5 it will be because the Astros shake things up like they did last year.

Yeah, I expect that to be the top 5 as well.

goshhhjosh
05-29-2013, 05:40 PM
Pretty clear that our top 2 targets are the 2 HS players with the highest upside, Stewart and Frazier.

I'm guessing Ben will be happy if either one falls to him at #7.

Either one and I'd be happy, happy, happy.

-Lavigne43-
05-29-2013, 05:47 PM
Another interesting answer

Steve (Wilmington, DE): Do teams in the middle of the first round do homework on the Top 8 guys just in case one of them falls? Or do they view that as a waste of time?
Jim Callis: It depends. It would be a waste to really bear down on Gray, Appel, Bryant, Moran because they're not getting out of the top five. But someone like Austin Meadows might slide into the mid-teens, so you have to be ready just in case.

Sounds like Indians are locked in on Moran. I'd be very surprised if the draft pick wasn't one of Stewart, Frazier, or Shipley. In that order. One of those 3 will be there no matter what.

Nomar
05-29-2013, 10:49 PM
Not that it's a bad pick, but at this point if we got Shipley I'd be disappointed.

-Lavigne43-
05-29-2013, 11:18 PM
The Red Sox probably be too. Picking him would be because of a 'nightmare' situation, both Frazier and Stewart being picked before us. The Twins are the only team in front of us being connected to Stewart. It looks like they will take him, but if something weird happens up top and they get Bryant only the Marlins could block us. Frazier isn't heavily connected to anyone above us, I can only see the Astros or Marlins taking him, and I really doubt that happens. I really think he will be there.

I guess Moran could be there too if it went Frazier-Appel-Gray-Stewart-Bryant-?-. I can't see the Twins passing on Bryant in that situation though, unless they are obsessed with Stewart. Odds are that Frazier or Stewart will be there.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 12:33 PM
Keith Law has a new mock

His new 1-7

Moran
Appel
Bryant
Stewart
Gray
Shipley
Meadows

Excerpt from Sox pick prediction:

"They'll take Bryant or Moran if here while also giving strong consideration to Meadows, Frazier, Kohl Stewart, Ryne Stanek and possibly Alex Gonzalez."

He also said there's a slight chance Appel falls to Boston. Don't get excited though.

....

Law is a huge Meadows fan. He gives no substantial reasoning for us taking Meadows over Frazier other than the fact that he likes Meadows more (he's the only person I've seen who prefers him though).

SemperFiSox
05-30-2013, 12:37 PM
Frazier > Meadows

j-bay
05-30-2013, 01:19 PM
Geordy (NJ)



Love the Mock today, what are the chances that Gray really does end up in Cleveland's lap?

Klaw
(1:10 PM)



Cleveland gets one of the top five guys, if they want one; if the Twins are as locked in on Kohl Stewart as the industry believes, and they pass on whichever of the four college guys gets to them, then Cleveland gets someone they'd be very excited to land. I think their nightmare scenario is that Gray, Appel, Bryant, and Moran go 1-4, which can happen if Moran does go 1-1.

AI
05-30-2013, 01:32 PM
If the first 4 picked are Moran, Bryant, Appel and Gray (no specific order) then we'd probably get one of Stewart/Frazier. Can't see both going 5-6.

j-bay
05-30-2013, 01:36 PM
Steve (California)



Is Clint Frazier "falling" because of his height, or are there just other players tam preferred. I think if I had bet you a month ago he makes it out of the Top 10, I could have won a free dinner from you.

Klaw
(1:35 PM)



I think the online hype on Frazier exceeded his actual industry support - not that people in the industry dislike him, but that he somehow became the darling of hardcore draft fans (for good reason, since the bat speed is absurd) even when scouts didn't feel quite the same way. He could still go in the top 10, maybe as high as 7, although I understand Meadows outshone him in Boston's workout this weekend.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 01:36 PM
Weird mock, seems implausible. He's finally backing off on the whole "Red Sox only take college players with their first pick". I can't imagine both the Rockies and Twins passing on Gray. I think he just twisted that mock to make it interesting, by using the 1% chance scenario where Moran goes #1.

Callis is on his own mountain ahead of these guys, especially with the Red Sox. Hes linked us to our first round choices countless times.

AI
05-30-2013, 01:47 PM
We worked out Frazier recently. Looks like it's Stewart/Frazier, whichever falls to us.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 01:52 PM
We worked out Frazier recently. Looks like it's Stewart/Frazier, whichever falls to us.

Not so fast actually.


Steve (California)


Is Clint Frazier "falling" because of his height, or are there just other players tam preferred. I think if I had bet you a month ago he makes it out of the Top 10, I could have won a free dinner from you.
Klaw
(1:35 PM)


I think the online hype on Frazier exceeded his actual industry support - not that people in the industry dislike him, but that he somehow became the darling of hardcore draft fans (for good reason, since the bat speed is absurd) even when scouts didn't feel quite the same way. He could still go in the top 10, maybe as high as 7, although I understand Meadows outshone him in Boston's workout this weekend.

AI
05-30-2013, 01:55 PM
Not so fast actually.

Personally, K-Law gets carried away sometimes with his own personal opinion and makes it seem like that's what "everybody else" is thinking as well. I prefer Callis a million times.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 01:57 PM
not that people in the industry dislike him, but that he somehow became the darling of hardcore draft fans

Which is why every other publication has Frazier as a better prospect. I won't buy into the whole Meadows thing until Callis says they like him better. Meadows is a better athlete than Frazier, in a workout he should probably do better.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 02:01 PM
Ugh, I'm not big on Meadows.

Laws brings up a great point though. Frazier really is the darling of the draft. Everyone loves him. Meadows sort of became the villain of the two. I'm bigger on Frazier personally, but if the Sox choose Meadows over Frazier I'm going to assume they made the right choice. They're the experts.

Personally Meadows screams Rasmus to me which would be a big disappointment.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Woah. Interesting.

Frazier has been on the record saying that he doesn't like Keith Law.

This is turning into a soap opera. Hope Meadows is getting some enjoyment out of it at least.

AI
05-30-2013, 02:13 PM
Meadows advisers have been telling teams that he'd take under-slot deals in order to move up in the draft.

All reports have us having a massive boner for Stewart and Frazier. Unless it's a massive smokescreen, which I highly doubt considering the talent in this year's draft, then I see no outcome where we take Meadows over Frazier.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 02:23 PM
chris (laced coffee) (minnesota)

Astros go Correa deux and take Moran. Cubs take Gray. How far does Appel fall?
Klaw (1:36 PM)

Absolute worst case scenario for Appel would be Boston at 7. Doubt that happens, but not out of the question.

...

Well that would be amazing.

AI
05-30-2013, 02:29 PM
Law has been the only guy to say this. There is no way the Twins would take Stewart over Appel.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 02:40 PM
Law has been the only guy to say this. There is no way the Twins would take Stewart over Appel.

Not necessarily. If the Cubs don't think they can afford Appel (which is why he thinks they could pass on him), then the Twins can't either if they want decent value out of their next couple picks.

I could see Cleveland taking him though.

j-bay
05-30-2013, 02:43 PM
chris (laced coffee) (minnesota)

Astros go Correa deux and take Moran. Cubs take Gray. How far does Appel fall?
Klaw (1:36 PM)

Absolute worst case scenario for Appel would be Boston at 7. Doubt that happens, but not out of the question.

...

Well that would be amazing.

If Appel drops, I hope Theo taught Ben how to deal with Boris.

AI
05-30-2013, 02:59 PM
Not necessarily. If the Cubs don't think they can afford Appel (which is why he thinks they could pass on him), then the Twins can't either if they want decent value out of their next couple picks.

Why wouldn't the Cubs be able to afford him? The #2 slot has more than enough value to get a deal done.

JMP83
05-30-2013, 04:34 PM
Question from Kiley McDaniel's chat today:


Comment From mloyko
Whats the latest industry buzz on what the Red Sox will do at #7? Frazier becoming the likliest scenario?

Kiley McDaniel: Looking more likely by the day, but Indians at 5 are starting to show some interest. Sox also like Kohl Stewart and Braden Shipley. Should get one of those three.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 05:38 PM
Why wouldn't the Cubs be able to afford him? The #2 slot has more than enough value to get a deal done.

This. Anyone in the top 4's slot should be enough. The only way Appel falls is if the Astros take Moran #1, the Cubs take Gray because they like him better, Rockies are in love with Bryant even though they need pitching, Twins are in love with Stewart, Indians don't want to possibly go overslot, same with Marlins. I can't imagine the Rockies or Twins passing on Appel or Gray.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 05:48 PM
Woah. Interesting.

Frazier has been on the record saying that he doesn't like Keith Law.

This is turning into a soap opera. Hope Meadows is getting some enjoyment out of it at least.

haha that's funny, where did he say that? Law is entitled to his opinion, but I don't like how he dismisses Frazier as "an internet sensation" when every single other draft guru rates Frazier better then Meadows. I've read Law's opinion on the two before, and a lot of his opinion on Meadows being better is because of their height and body types. Looking good in a uniform and being more athletic does not make you a better bet. See Ryan Sweeney. Cue Billy Beans "We're not selling jeans".

bruins>habs
05-30-2013, 05:51 PM
Is Keith Law like baseball's Mel Kiper or does Law actually know what he is doing?

goshhhjosh
05-30-2013, 06:16 PM
If Appel drops, I hope Theo taught Ben how to deal with Boris.

Boris Yeltsin?

JMP83
05-30-2013, 06:16 PM
Is Keith Law like baseball's Mel Kiper or does Law actually know what he is doing?

Depends on who you ask of course, but I think he generally knows what he's talking about. He can be very condescending and myopic in his viewpoints though, to the point where it seems like he's not really interested in discussing alternatives to his own mindset. That's when he comes across as bull-headed and ignorant, but usually I find his stuff knowledgeable and honest.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 06:18 PM
Law's solid on prospects, I respect his views, but he has flaws. I think a lot of his rankings are too heavy on upside and dreaming of what a player can be. I think he also likes to be different then everyone else. He can be pretty arrogant and snarky at times. Hes missed big on players, like Pedroia who he dismissed as a bench player. I don't know how correct he has historically been with mocks and draft rankings.

Callis is the best with the draft and no ones close. Hes been pretty accurate with his mocks in the past, and he will let you know if he's unsure or guessing, like last year when he admitted that he couldn't get much information about what Houston would do.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 06:53 PM
By the way, this has to be the greatest mock ever, getting the first 18 picks correct. He must have felt so awesome watching this draft http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/mock-draft/2005/26510.html

It's hilarious that Mayo gets most of the screen time during the draft while Callis is in the corner.

bruins>habs
05-30-2013, 07:19 PM
By the way, this has to be the greatest mock ever, getting the first 18 picks correct. He must have felt so awesome watching this draft http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/mock-draft/2005/26510.html

It's hilarious that Mayo gets most of the screen time during the draft while Callis is in the corner.

holy hell, that's pretty good. He got both sox picks right too, i mean i don't know how easily it is to predict anything after like 11-30, but if its a crap shoot like most drafts are, than that's impressive.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 07:42 PM
holy hell, that's pretty good. He got both sox picks right too, i mean i don't know how easily it is to predict anything after like 11-30, but if its a crap shoot like most drafts are, than that's impressive.

What he did that year is like winning the lotto. Even the top ten is hard to get mostly right in a mock. If one team surprises it throws everything off. Hes always been good with linking the Red Sox with the picks they choose. Hes linked us with Barnes, Ranaudo, Vitek, Workman, Brentz, etc. He has good sources.

bruins>habs
05-30-2013, 07:53 PM
What he did that year is like winning the lotto. Even the top ten is hard to get mostly right in a mock. If one team surprises it throws everything off. Hes always been good with linking the Red Sox with the picks they choose. Hes linked us with Barnes, Ranaudo, Vitek, Workman, Brentz, etc. He has good sources.

Oh, so i've only seen two of his mocks (i don't know if he has more out) but neither of the mocks i saw of his have the sox taking Frazier. But everyone else seems to have the sox taking frazier, so should i assume that maybe we aren't into Frazier as everyone else seems to think?

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 07:55 PM
I'm pretty sure Callis has us taking Frazier in both of his mocks released, with Stewart being plan A.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 07:59 PM
I'm pretty sure Callis has us taking Frazier in both of his mocks released, with Stewart being plan A.

He does. Mayo has Frazier here in both of his. Sickels has Moran and Shipley. Law has Stanek and Meadows.

bruins>habs
05-30-2013, 08:17 PM
I'm pretty sure Callis has us taking Frazier in both of his mocks released, with Stewart being plan A.

you know what i did, when i was looking over his mocks, i'd look at the name above. I misread.


http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/jim-callis-mock-draft-1-0/

from 1.0 i thought he had us taking Shipley


http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/jim-callis-2013-mock-draft-2-0/

from 2.0 i thought he had us taking McGuire

AI
05-30-2013, 08:52 PM
Mayo is probably the worst of the prospect guys, he's awful.

EwanSellars
05-30-2013, 09:39 PM
id be happy as long as we get stewart or frazier with shipley being back up and appel being the dream frazier is my number 1 but having stewart would be awesome as well

bruins>habs
05-30-2013, 09:55 PM
In theory, if we do happen to draft Frazier, would he still go to college or would he go to like Salem or Lowell?

AI
05-30-2013, 10:02 PM
In theory, if we do happen to draft Frazier, would he still go to college or would he go to like Salem or Lowell?

Frazier has said that he would look to sign quickly in order to start his professional career as quickly as possible. He would probably go to short season Lowell.

bruins>habs
05-30-2013, 10:16 PM
Frazier has said that he would look to sign quickly in order to start his professional career as quickly as possible. He would probably go to short season Lowell.

Oh alright, since its short season, what do the players do once they finish that season?

AI
05-30-2013, 10:20 PM
Oh alright, since its short season, what do the players do once they finish that season?

He'd probably go to Lowell, then start off at Greenville next year. It's not impossible that he makes it to Greenville this year, but highly improbable considering that Frazier is extremely raw.

j-bay
05-30-2013, 10:25 PM
If it is Frazier can't wait to see him in Salem.

AI
05-30-2013, 10:25 PM
Another possibility is the GCL.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 10:29 PM
I highly doubt Frazier goes straight to Lowell. He wants to play ASAP. I say put him in the GCL and if he tears it up you bump him to Lowell. If all goes very well he could start with Greenville next year.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 10:31 PM
I wouldn't label him as extremely raw, but yeah whoever we draft will be at Lowell for the rest of the season, college or not, unless the .5% chance that we draft Appel. We might take it easy with a HS pitcher like Stewart and only give him a couple innings at the end of the year. They'll go to instructs at the end of the year. Signing quickly isn't too significant a thing anymore. I don't remember the signing deadline, but it's not ridiculously late like it used to be anymore.

AI
05-30-2013, 10:33 PM
I highly doubt Frazier goes straight to Lowell. He wants to play ASAP. I say put him in the GCL and if he tears it up you bump him to Lowell. If all goes very well he could start with Greenville next year.

This. I had a brainfart and completely forgot about the GCL.

Those wondering when you'd see him in Salem, I'd probably say 2015. I think he'd spend the whole 2014 season in Low-A Greenville unless he tears it up and forces his way to High-A.

Nomar
05-30-2013, 10:34 PM
I wouldn't label him as extremely raw, but yeah whoever we draft will be at Lowell for the rest of the season, college or not, unless the .5% chance that we draft Appel. We might take it easy with a HS pitcher like Stewart and only give him a couple innings at the end of the year. They'll go to instructs at the end of the year. Signing quickly isn't too significant a thing anymore. I don't remember the signing deadline, but it's not ridiculously late like it used to be anymore.

A lot of high schoolers play a couple weeks of rookie ball at least. The thing Frazier has though is that he is a bit older. Maybe he could go to Lowell fast, but I think he plays a little rookie ball first. I'd love if he was ready for Lowell already though.

AI
05-30-2013, 10:37 PM
I wouldn't label him as extremely raw, but yeah

When I say he's raw, is that right now his best tool is his elite bat speed. He is raw in terms of pitch recognition and ability to hit offspeed/breaking stuff, that's the biggest knock on him at the moment. You can get by at HS looking for fastballs because you are not going to see many quality breaking balls or changeups, but once you enter professional ball I'm quite sure it's going to be a challenge for him. With his bat speed and makeup, I wouldn't worry about it. He has that motor that guys like Pedroia play with.

-Lavigne43-
05-30-2013, 10:39 PM
It might be GCL, but he's more advanced then most HS players. We haven't had a player like him in the system to draw a comp too, especially since most HS guys we signed used to not play until the next year because the signing deadline was so late. The Red Sox are usually pretty conservative starting off with players, so if it was a bet I would take GCL.

AI
05-30-2013, 10:43 PM
I was talking to Nomar about this, if we got Frazier, our top 10 would be absolutely filthy. In no specific order:

Xander Bogaerts, SS
Allen Webster, SP
Garin Cecchini, 3B
Jackie Bradley Jr., OF
Henry Owens, SP
Matt Barnes, SP
Rubby de la Rosa, SP
Clint Frazier, OF
Anthony Ranaudo, SP
Blake Swihart, C

Pure sex. :drool:

AI
05-31-2013, 12:43 AM
Just took a look at SoxProspects minor league rosters, judging by the information they have, Frazier would start at the GCL. That team might be stacked of guys I'd be interested in following as the roster already includes Alixon Suarez, Raymel Flores, Dioscar Romero and Wendell Rijo.

RedSoxtober
05-31-2013, 10:22 AM
Oh alright, since its short season, what do the players do once they finish that season?
It's called short season primarily since it starts so late (June). Wraps up close to the same time as other minor leagues, though. Some top performers may jump a rung in A-ball at the end for an extra week. What the guys do after the season depends. Sometimes the Sox like them to get away from the field and get into physical prep for what will be the longest season of their lives; sometimes they'll play in the instructional league for a few weeks.


He'd probably go to Lowell, then start off at Greenville next year. It's not impossible that he makes it to Greenville this year, but highly improbable considering that Frazier is extremely raw.
I could see Lowell or GCL. If he plays well their Greenville is not unreasonable next year. The last few years the Drive has been VERY young (I recall seeing a game where the entire infield was 18-20 last year). The entire system is also extremely short on OF talent, especially power hitting OFers, and that could play into his placement. And, to be honest, Greenville is a pretty damn good place to be for a young ball player.

-Lavigne43-
05-31-2013, 11:34 AM
‏@jimcallisBA 34m
Our latest mock #mlbdraft will be posted this afternoon. Not feeling much if any change in the top 10 picks from what we had last week.

@jimcallisBA 2h
Not a lock but pretty confident right now he'll go No. 4 to #Twins @joeyha18: Is Kohl Stewart a lock to go in the top 5? #mlbdraft

Nomar
05-31-2013, 12:21 PM
‏@jimcallisBA 34m
Our latest mock #mlbdraft will be posted this afternoon. Not feeling much if any change in the top 10 picks from what we had last week.

@jimcallisBA 2h
Not a lock but pretty confident right now he'll go No. 4 to #Twins @joeyha18: Is Kohl Stewart a lock to go in the top 5? #mlbdraft

If he goes 4th, we're getting Frazier barring a monster **** block by CLE/MIA

Nomar
05-31-2013, 12:53 PM
"He's got me ranked eighth and Austin third, even though he came to town and saw Austin go 2 for 3 with two singles. I led my game off with a homerun and hit a homerun in the next at bat. I saw like five pitches that day and hit two homeruns, but he still left town saying I couldn't hit. I don't like the guy and I can't wait to prove him wrong." -Clint Frazier


You can't not love the kid.

JMP83
05-31-2013, 01:00 PM
I love him too, but not for that. I like that he has something to prove, but he shouldn't take what one guy says so hard. Man, if he thinks Law's bad, wait until one of the local hacks says something negative about him.

Nomar
05-31-2013, 01:03 PM
I love him too, but not for that. I like that he has something to prove, but he shouldn't take what one guy says so hard. Man, if he thinks Law's bad, wait until one of the local hacks says something negative about him.

I don't agree. He said he wants to prove him wrong. Why should he love Law after that? He never said he has no credibility or anything. If I hit two homers and my opposition hits two singles, I would hope that I showed more that day too. I think it reflects more on how passionate he is about the game than him getting easily upset.

-Lavigne43-
05-31-2013, 01:06 PM
He was answering a question from a reporter. I don't know why a reporter would even mention Keith Law.

AI
05-31-2013, 02:21 PM
OK, that quote got me back on the Frazier bandwagon. I love guys like that. Him and Pedey would get along just fine. Also, I read that if the Twins don't go with Stewart they might go under-slot with a guy like Reese McGuire in order to pick up some talent in rounds 2-3. Depends on what draft strategy the Twins choose to follow.

Nomar
05-31-2013, 03:43 PM
The reason why I don't see Moran at 1.1 or McGuire to Minnesota is that there's no Lance McCullers in this draft? What top 10-15 talent is going to fall that far? Nobody will make it to a teams second round pick, that's for sure. The Astros picked a great year to use that strategy last year. Getting McCullers and Ruiz was a great success, but I can't see a team doing that this year unless they think they could nab Manaea and sign him with their second pick. And in Manaea's case, Boras is his agent, and he'll give him the same advice Appel got last year; stay and go top 5 next year.

BostonSports96
05-31-2013, 05:23 PM
Appel and Gray are gonna go 1-2 so forget about them. I think Stewart is too risky, along with Stanek and Meadows. I want either:

Frazier OF
Bryant 3B
Shipley P

-Lavigne43-
05-31-2013, 05:43 PM
So there is truth to the Meadows pick

1. Gray
2. Appel
3. Bryant
4. Stewart
5. Moran
6. Shipley

7. BOSTON RED SOX: If Minnesota doesn’t take Stewart, Boston will pounce on him. If he’s not available, the Red Sox likely will choose between the Georgia prep outfielders, and they’re split internally on which way to go. They also could look at Ball or college righthanders Shipley, Ryne Stanek (Arkansas) and maybe even Alex Gonzalez (Oral Roberts).

PROJECTED PICK: Austin Meadows (Mock draft 1.0/2.0: Clint Frazier/Frazier).

http://ht.ly/lB6IX

SemperFiSox
05-31-2013, 05:52 PM
Frazier :nod:

Nomar
05-31-2013, 06:19 PM
So there is truth to the Meadows pick

1. Gray
2. Appel
3. Bryant
4. Stewart
5. Moran
6. Shipley

7. BOSTON RED SOX: If Minnesota doesnít take Stewart, Boston will pounce on him. If heís not available, the Red Sox likely will choose between the Georgia prep outfielders, and theyíre split internally on which way to go. They also could look at Ball or college righthanders Shipley, Ryne Stanek (Arkansas) and maybe even Alex Gonzalez (Oral Roberts).

PROJECTED PICK: Austin Meadows (Mock draft 1.0/2.0: Clint Frazier/Frazier).

http://ht.ly/lB6IX

Was just about to post this.

I just don't think Meadows will have enough power to be an impact bat if/when he moves to a corner.

bruins>habs
05-31-2013, 06:27 PM
So Frazier has more upside than Meadows...If that's the case and he's the better player, why would the sox take Meadows?

Nomar
05-31-2013, 06:32 PM
So Frazier has more upside than Meadows...If that's the case and he's the better player, why would the sox take Meadows?

Meadows has a bitter hit tool. If the Sox think his hit tool will be more important than the gap between he and Frazier's power, they'll go with him.

Personally this is making me hope Stewart falls to us.

JMP83
05-31-2013, 07:04 PM
So Frazier has more upside than Meadows...If that's the case and he's the better player, why would the sox take Meadows?

Much better chance to stick in CF. Also more speed, though less arm strength.

I wonder how much of Meadows' recent workout with the Sox convinced them he could stick in center.

goshhhjosh
05-31-2013, 07:08 PM
You can't not love the kid.

I assume you're referencing the Sports Illustrated article featuring Frazier and Meadows? Was actually a pretty good read.

Frazier's confidence exudes throughout the whole article. I still like Frazier over Meadows.

Nomar
05-31-2013, 07:26 PM
I like Frazier over Meadows too.

His current speed is better, he has more power, and he plays the game harder.

And Frazier's power will only play up at Fenway from the right side.

I don't see how Meadows would fit better honestly. Maybe the Sox think he can stick in center, can make him sign under slot, or maybe they're showing more interest as a negotiation tactic for Frazier (though none of these seem likely).

AI
05-31-2013, 08:15 PM
I see Meadows and I see Ryan Sweeney.

Nomar
05-31-2013, 08:17 PM
I see Meadows and I see Ryan Sweeney.

Lmao harsh and potentially an insane jinx

AI
05-31-2013, 08:24 PM
Lmao harsh and potentially an insane jinx

I'm serious. I spent an entire night watching Meadows and Frazier videos.

I prefer Frazier but that's based on small amount of videos and scouting reports. I'm no scout, but on the few information I've been able to see, I prefer Frazier. However, if both are available and the Red Sox go with Meadows instead of Frazier, I'm just going to assume they made the right choice because they have probably seen them a million times. I just hope it doesn't end up being Kolbrin Vitek all over again and Frazier turns into a monster masher.

Nomar
05-31-2013, 08:33 PM
I'm serious. I spent an entire night watching Meadows and Frazier videos.

I prefer Frazier but that's based on small amount of videos and scouting reports. I'm no scout, but on the few information I've been able to see, I prefer Frazier. However, if both are available and the Red Sox go with Meadows instead of Frazier, I'm just going to assume they made the right choice because they have probably seen them a million times. I just hope it doesn't end up being Kolbrin Vitek all over again and Frazier turns into a monster masher.

Personally I'd even rather have Smith than Meadows. Fraziers upside is so much higher. Meadows I can barely see being an all-star unless everything goes perfect for him.

AI
05-31-2013, 09:33 PM
Jim Callis @jimcallisba
Gut feel. Don't think they've made up mind. @nepd_Loyko: What made you change #RedSox pick from Frazier to Meadows in latest mock? #mlbdraft

...

bruins>habs
05-31-2013, 10:05 PM
...

Lets hope they settle on Frazier.....

j-bay
05-31-2013, 10:09 PM
Jim Callis‏@jimcallisBA1h
Stewart. No on college dudes. @JohnBotelhoSJ: best case scenario for #RedSox? At all possible one of those college guys slip? #mlbdraft

AI
05-31-2013, 10:12 PM
Pretty much what we've all agreed on. If Twins don't pick up Stewart, he's ours.

If not, Frazier would be a nice Plan B if he's still available. Plan C would be a massive letdown.

Nomar
05-31-2013, 10:23 PM
Apparently plan B can be either Frazier or Meadows though. Ugh im nervous now.

j-bay
05-31-2013, 10:28 PM
Apparently plan B can be either Frazier or Meadows though. Ugh im nervous now.

I want more Frazier too. However I remember in Septemeber, everybody liked Meadows, but everybody said he would not drop to us because everybody said he would go in the top 3. So i wouldn't be too dissappointed with Meadows, even though I would want Frazier more. Ben might see something we don't.

bruins>habs
05-31-2013, 10:40 PM
I want more Frazier too. However I remember in Septemeber, everybody liked Meadows, but everybody said he would not drop to us because everybody said he would go in the top 3. So i wouldn't be too dissappointed with Meadows, even though I would want Frazier more. Ben might see something we don't.

That's probably it....Obviously, the Sox know more than anyone here, so in the end, they'll make the decision best for the club.

Before Ben was named GM wasn't he big into player development and drafting that type of stuff??

Nomar
05-31-2013, 10:57 PM
All i know is that if Ben blows this pick his first two drafts are going to look like **** for the time being.