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View Full Version : Will Dwight Howard ever be "the man" on a championship-level team again?



RLundi
04-28-2013, 09:16 PM
Names are made in the postseason. Reputations are also destroyed in the postseason. I get LA had a tumultuous year but Dwight just laid an absolute egg when he had the chance to show all his doubters (including probably Kobe) what he was made of in the postseason as a leader. But he came up woefully short, culminating in him being ejected in the final game of an embarrassing sweep.

Dwight will still surely get a max deal this offseason, but how can anyone expect him to be the man and lead a team to a championship after these past couple seasons? Is Dwight just a secondary player/sidekick now?

Thoughts...

Avenged
04-28-2013, 09:43 PM
He laid an absolute egg while scoring and rebound 20 & 15 in game 1, 16 & 9 in game 2, and 25 &11 in game 3.

I don't know about you but this is one of those cases where you absolutely have to take into consideration the fact that our starting PG was injured, as well as our starting SG, our backup PG, our backup SG, and our starting SF.

LAcowBOMBER
04-28-2013, 09:47 PM
He will be in a few years in LA

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 09:48 PM
Yes, most definitely yes.

1) This guy was injured for most of the season.

2) Give this guy a team that actually fits him.

3) Once you do #2, he will be happy which will make him play hard every game


So yes I think he can and will be the man on a championship level team.

Novak43
04-28-2013, 09:49 PM
No, and the fact that he ever was speaks volumes about the state of "big men" in the modern NBA.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 09:52 PM
No, and the fact that he ever was speaks volumes about the state of "big men" in the modern NBA.

Do you really think he declined that fast at his young age?

SportsFanatic10
04-28-2013, 09:55 PM
i don't know...he's got the skills but i don't think he has the right mindset. seems like a big baby, and everything has to be just right for him to succeed. of course its hard to say because i know he was hurting as well.

Jarvo
04-28-2013, 09:55 PM
If he ever grows up, He can't handle being on his own in LA or ever being "The Man"

RLundi
04-28-2013, 09:56 PM
He laid an absolute egg while scoring and rebound 20 & 15 in game 1, 16 & 9 in game 2, and 25 &11 in game 3.

I don't know about you but this is one of those cases where you absolutely have to take into consideration the fact that our starting PG was injured, as well as our starting SG, our backup PG, our backup SG, and our starting SF.

You forgot to mention game 4's 7pts 8rbs and completely quitting on his team. A supposedly top player doesn't get a pass because his team has injuries. They were essentially blown out every game-- they lost by an average of 26 points per game at home.

I didn't see a reassertion that he's a leader or a go-to guy on a champion. He's not fit being a first option.

kdspurman
04-28-2013, 09:57 PM
1.they (who ever he signs with) have surround him with shooters.
2.he has to continue to work on his post game and back to basket game (also includes passing out the double team, which if #1 is done, it's easier to do so)
3.he has to get his maturity level up and learn to keep his composure. realize you are going to get fouled a lot, and use that energy to dominate, not complain.

some stuff has to happen for him to be "the man" i think. but he should really focus on getting better in the post with his decision making/patience/etc...

ALTERIQUE
04-28-2013, 09:58 PM
In a word NO....

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 09:58 PM
How did anybody think he would succeed in LA with the ****** perimeter shooters they have?

ALTERIQUE
04-28-2013, 09:59 PM
He will go to Houston or another team where he can hide behind other players...

Jarvo
04-28-2013, 10:02 PM
Lakers should try and get Lamarcus Aldridge and whoever get the #1 pick trade it for Dwight to get Noel so Kobe can mold him.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 10:05 PM
Lakers should try and get Lamarcus Aldridge and whoever get the #1 pick trade it for Dwight to get Noel so Kobe can mold him.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh aa.

What are you gonna give up for LMA? Pau?

Avenged
04-28-2013, 10:06 PM
You forgot to mention game 4's 7pts 8rbs and completely quitting on his team. A supposedly top player doesn't get a pass because his team has injuries. They were essentially blown out every game-- they lost by an average of 26 points per game at home.

I didn't see a reassertion that he's a leader or a go-to guy on a champion. He's not fit being a first option.

Quitting on his team?? How?? :confused: If you're getting mauled down in the paint and the refs aren't doing anything to stop it, anyone will react the way he did -- through emotion. These guys aren't robots. It's not like he was out there looking for any reason to get ejected or he would have just busted a Bynum (clothesline/elbow).

A top player or ANY player gets a "pass" when the starting PG, SG, and SF are injured. We aren't talking about Sacre here, we're talking about STARTERS. Their replacements? Out due to injury. The replacements, replacements? Morris and freaking Goudelock.

Heck, Pau?? Disappeared again.

Jarvo
04-28-2013, 10:12 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh aa.

What are you gonna give up for LMA? Pau?


You're laughing but we all know The Lakers trade history they always pull a rabbit out of their *** or get away with highway robbery. They need to build a TEAM instead of always pulling for big names and stars.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
04-28-2013, 10:21 PM
Sure trade him for the number one pick ... O wait he is a free agent ... O and Orlando may have the number pick, catch my drift?

justinnum1
04-28-2013, 10:25 PM
No. He is a really good role player with a terrible attitude.

RLundi
04-28-2013, 10:27 PM
Quitting on his team?? How?? :confused: If you're getting mauled down in the paint and the refs aren't doing anything to stop it, anyone will react the way he did -- through emotion. These guys aren't robots. It's not like he was out there looking for any reason to get ejected or he would have just busted a Bynum (clothesline/elbow).

A top player or ANY player gets a "pass" when the starting PG, SG, and SF are injured. We aren't talking about Sacre here, we're talking about STARTERS. Their replacements? Out due to injury. The replacements, replacements? Morris and freaking Goudelock.

Heck, Pau?? Disappeared again.

It doesn't matter, a leader has composure. In the final game with your team down 20, it doesn't matter if you're frustrated; it's not about him, it's about his team. He should've been out there with his team absorbing the loss. Idk if he purposely got ejected -- it wouldn't surprise me -- but either way, he should've been out there.

And I mentioned the injury bug particularly bit the Lakers. But a blowout every single game?? No excuse.

And how do you give Dwight such a pass then turn around and say Pau disappeared when they both averaged close to the exact same numbers, gave or take a bucket more for Howard?? Pau averaged 14, 11 and 6 including a triple double.

Munkeysuit
04-28-2013, 10:27 PM
Will Dwight Howard ever be "the man" on a championship-level team again?

No, he never was the man at anytime for anything at all

Munkeysuit
04-28-2013, 10:29 PM
Dwight is a loser and will always be a loser

RLundi
04-28-2013, 10:29 PM
No, he never was the man at anytime for anything at all

He lead the Magic to the Finals.

Jarvo
04-28-2013, 10:30 PM
He lead the Magic to the Finals.

Fluke, I'm sorry.

Jarvo
04-28-2013, 10:31 PM
Sure trade him for the number one pick ... O wait he is a free agent ... O and Orlando may have the number pick, catch my drift?

Sign and trade? And that's IF they get it.

BKdoubleStacker
04-28-2013, 10:31 PM
the level of stupidity in this thread is not surprising

DumDum
04-28-2013, 10:31 PM
never

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
04-28-2013, 10:42 PM
Sign and trade? And that's IF they get it.

Bro really? What team is gonna give up a top 5 draft pick for someone they could sign out right? Besides any sign and trade would mean Dwight would have to agree so tell me which team drafting in the top 5 will Dwight agree to be traded to? Lol none

Jarvo
04-28-2013, 10:53 PM
Bro really? What team is gonna give up a top 5 draft pick for someone they could sign out right? Besides any sign and trade would mean Dwight would have to agree so tell me which team drafting in the top 5 will Dwight agree to be traded to? Lol none

He's an flip flopper he may want to go back to Orlando? Lol

RLundi
04-28-2013, 11:00 PM
Fluke, I'm sorry.

The Magic averaged 55 wins in 4 years with him as the man and went to the Finals and eastern conference finals consecutive years. That's not a fluke.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
04-28-2013, 11:15 PM
He's an flip flopper he may want to go back to Orlando? Lol

True .... haha LOVE THAT SIG

ragee
04-28-2013, 11:35 PM
Yes... As Dirk as his side kick... :pray:

DaLakerz Rulz
04-29-2013, 12:23 AM
Quitting on his team?? How?? :confused: If you're getting mauled down in the paint and the refs aren't doing anything to stop it, anyone will react the way he did -- through emotion. These guys aren't robots. It's not like he was out there looking for any reason to get ejected or he would have just busted a Bynum (clothesline/elbow).

A top player or ANY player gets a "pass" when the starting PG, SG, and SF are injured. We aren't talking about Sacre here, we're talking about STARTERS. Their replacements? Out due to injury. The replacements, replacements? Morris and freaking Goudelock.

Heck, Pau?? Disappeared again.

You aren't allowed to look at context in the NBA forum. Get with the program dude.

krisxsong
04-29-2013, 01:23 AM
Fluke, I'm sorry.

Yeah okay, they got the Finals with luck.

rasajr23
04-29-2013, 01:41 AM
Dwight and Gasol got outplayed by an older player in Duncan and a bench guy Splitter. Decisions will need to be made, but not sure anymore that Dwight is the man after what he pulled in today's Game4

Becks2307
04-29-2013, 01:49 AM
Howard is declining very slowly imo. I dont think he will ever be as good as he once was. I think he'll get close enough to make it seem like he isn't declining (kinda like Cp3) but I def think he hit his peak a couple years ago.

Jarvo
04-29-2013, 01:52 AM
Yeah okay, they got the Finals with luck.

They did The Cavs choked :shrug: I don't even remember that Finals when they played LA

lol, please
04-29-2013, 01:52 AM
Names are made in the postseason. Reputations are also destroyed in the postseason. I get LA had a tumultuous year but Dwight just laid an absolute egg when he had the chance to show all his doubters (including probably Kobe) what he was made of in the postseason as a leader. But he came up woefully short, culminating in him being ejected in the final game of an embarrassing sweep.

Dwight will still surely get a max deal this offseason, but how can anyone expect him to be the man and lead a team to a championship after these past couple seasons? Is Dwight just a secondary player/sidekick now?

Thoughts...Maybe if he joins the Warriors. He can come off the bench for Bogut.

Jarvo
04-29-2013, 01:53 AM
The Magic averaged 55 wins in 4 years with him as the man and went to the Finals and eastern conference finals consecutive years. That's not a fluke.

It wasn't but The Cavs choked.

Jarvo
04-29-2013, 01:54 AM
Maybe if he joins the Warriors. He can come off the bench for Bogut.

He's not going there lol

Vinny642
04-29-2013, 01:57 AM
Nope, maturity goes a long way

Im_in_Mia_bish
04-29-2013, 02:07 AM
They did Lebron choked :shrug: I don't even remember that Finals

no. orlando at that time were a better team. and howard abused the cavs interior defense.
although imo howard is very overrated and there is no way in hell that 09 run to the finals was only because of him.

shep33
04-29-2013, 02:10 AM
I have no clue what is going to happen. I will say that I truly believe this is the last big contract the dude will sign. 4 or 5 years he'll be 31-32. Dude's game is built on his athletic ability, so I'd be amazed if he got another huge deal after that. Gotta add in his back and shoulder issues too.

This is where the Lakers have an advantage, because they can give him 117 mill... thing is, would that be the right long-term move for LA?

Stephen A Smith just went on a rant, and he also mentioned how players around the league are ridiculing D12's character after this game. The problem that comes with this is can D12 attract other star players anymore? Seems like other players don't want to play with him (basing this off Stephen A Smith's comments).

He will never win anything as a first option offensively. I think we can all agree on that. However, that doesn't mean he can't be the best player on a championship team. Whether that be in LA, Houston or wherever else.

eternal slumber
04-29-2013, 02:11 AM
i think he still can with the right team and supporting cast.

Im_in_Mia_bish
04-29-2013, 02:15 AM
He lead the Magic to the Finals.

umm what? :confused:

Dwight Howard: 20.3 ppg and 15.3 rebounds.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html

Hedo: 15.8 ppg
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turkohe01.html

jameer nelson: 19 ppg
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nelsoja01.html

Lewis: 19 ppg 6.4 rebounds.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html

with courtney lee and others, the whole squad was a solid defensive team and were great on the fast break runs.
Lets not pretend as if dwight was the sole reason or as if he led this team to the finals. they were well coached with an even distribution of scoring, defending, and rebounding.

this team was stacked. reddick, lee, alston, hedo, lewis, nelson, howard, pietrus and bogans.
a pretty solid defensive minded unit.

Guppyfighter
04-29-2013, 02:16 AM
It wasn't but Lebron choked the whole Cavs team did that year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD1MNjkPFs

Im_in_Mia_bish
04-29-2013, 02:17 AM
i think he still can with the right team and supporting cast.

not as the leader. they tried that in orlando, but had to take him out in clutch situations because of his ft inability.

he better hope that the opposing team is getting blown out all the time.

if he played alongside with kobe, bron, wade, durant, etc and with solid role players, than i would say yes.
but if you rely heavily on him for offense as well as defense, sorry i just dont see it.

RLundi
04-29-2013, 05:16 AM
umm what? :confused:

Dwight Howard: 20.3 ppg and 15.3 rebounds.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html

Hedo: 15.8 ppg
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turkohe01.html

jameer nelson: 19 ppg
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nelsoja01.html

Lewis: 19 ppg 6.4 rebounds.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html

with courtney lee and others, the whole squad was a solid defensive team and were great on the fast break runs.
Lets not pretend as if dwight was the sole reason or as if he led this team to the finals. they were well coached with an even distribution of scoring, defending, and rebounding.

this team was stacked. reddick, lee, alston, hedo, lewis, nelson, howard, pietrus and bogans.
a pretty solid defensive minded unit.

1. Howard was the best player on that team on both ends.

2. That entire team's offense scheme was predicated Dwight getting double-teamed and having wide-open shots kicked out to wide-open players.

3. Outside of Lee and maybe Pietrus (a tad bit overrated) the team had no defenders. Dwight WAS the defense. He was a masterful and franchise-changing defender that made up for the other players' defensive lapses.

4. Without Dwight, the Magic don't make the postseason at all.

Everything hinged on Dwight Howard. Yes he led them to the Finals.

RLundi
04-29-2013, 05:18 AM
not as the leader. they tried that in orlando, but had to take him out in clutch situations because of his ft inability.

:confused:

Not at all, we always left him in the game when it was on the line, as he was our LEADER :)

Faneik
04-29-2013, 05:47 AM
He is the best center in the league. But he's also a liability at the end of close games.
You cannot depend on him on offense. Limited moves, TO-prone if he has to dribble, bad shooting mechanics. He needs to be in the low-low-post to be somewhat efficient.

He's a beast on defense, we all know that. So he needs a team suited to his abilities. He for sure needs a PF who can shoot the 3.

Basically, just surround Dwight with a stretch 4, and the others should be great shooters and defenders.

You need Dwight to be in a very good defensive team, because you'll need the "you will score less points than us" mentality on your team. Also, great defense leads to some easy baskets per game.

The plan for Dwight on offense is:

1. Have your PF draw out his man to the perimeter, so Dwight can go 1v1 in the low post.
2. Dwight will be able to have his man in foul trouble and/or command a double team.
3. Practice ball-movement extensively.
4. Practice under the basket screens, so Dwight can get his position near the rim as possible.

With this you'll have a somewhat predictable but efficient offense.

LAcowBOMBER
04-29-2013, 05:49 AM
1. Howard was the best player on that team on both ends.

2. That entire team's offense scheme was predicated Dwight getting double-teamed and having wide-open shots kicked out to wide-open players.

3. Outside of Lee and maybe Pietrus (a tad bit overrated) the team had no defenders. Dwight WAS the defense. He was a masterful and franchise-changing defender that made up for the other players' defensive lapses.

4. Without Dwight, the Magic don't make the postseason at all.

Everything hinged on Dwight Howard. Yes he led them to the Finals.

This. He clearly was the man in Orlando and will be again when healthy(next year)

naps
04-29-2013, 06:06 AM
I don't think he's offensively gifted enough to lead a team. He could be a perfect 2nd option to an unselfish 1st option.

Shlumpledink
04-29-2013, 06:26 AM
basketball isn't played in a vacuum, the play of your supporting cast is huge. Basketball is a team game. Being forced to play your third and fourth string guards as your starting back court isn't going to lead to success of any of these playoff teams. No players are dominant in the playoffs without the players around them stepping it up as well. If the Lakers had good shooters, perimeter players that could create for others and themselves, then dwight would look ten times better.

fredv
04-29-2013, 07:09 AM
Come down to Houston Dwight! Then we can ship out Asik + Young players/picks for LMA! (and somehow upgrade the PG position too!).

Lin
Harden
Parsons
LMA
Howard

That's a nice starting 5 to build start building. Only PG position is average, rest is real solid!

ragee
04-29-2013, 07:49 AM
They did Lebron choked :shrug: I don't even remember that Finals

Game 1 49 points 6 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 3 blocks
Game 2 35 points 4 rebounds 5 assists 1 steal
Game 3 41 points 7 rebounds 9 assists 2 steals 1 block
Game 4 44 points 12 rebounds 7 assists 1 steal 1 block
Game 5 29 points 6 rebounds 2 assists 2 steals
Game 6 25 points 7 rebounds 7 assists 1 block

You call that choking? I even remembered he made a buzzer beater in the series...

Novak43
04-29-2013, 10:17 AM
Do you really think he declined that fast at his young age?

I think his attitude has done more to hasten his decline than the injuries. If no one likes you, because you're a whiny *****, it's tough to fit into any system.

Novak43
04-29-2013, 10:20 AM
Also, he doesn't have the basketball skills to last without his athleticism. So, even if his athleticism has declined a little, his overall impact will decline a lot.

D-Leethal
04-29-2013, 10:22 AM
I think he definitely can, but its going to take a very similar style of play to the one they employed in Orlando. 3 point shooters everywhere, tons of space, just going to need some better talent filling those roles, most specifically probably the PG position.

If he can pair himself with a top 10 PG and elite 3 point shooters around him, they can form a championship squad.

I honestly think the Dubs might want to make a run at him. Bogut + Barnes or something along those lines.

D-Leethal
04-29-2013, 10:23 AM
Also, he doesn't have the basketball skills to last without his athleticism. So, even if his athleticism has declined a little, his overall impact will decline a lot.

I agree with this, but I think he can still have a Tyson Chandler type impact deep into his 30s with his defensive impact and ability to finish oops, pick and rolls, putbacks. He will need to rely less on shotblocking and more on positional defense later in his career like Tyson does.

LakersIn5
04-29-2013, 11:02 AM
perfect team for dwight

dwight
ryan anderson
parsons
ray allen
stephen curry

damn

Jarvo
04-29-2013, 11:10 AM
Game 1 49 points 6 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 3 blocks
Game 2 35 points 4 rebounds 5 assists 1 steal
Game 3 41 points 7 rebounds 9 assists 2 steals 1 block
Game 4 44 points 12 rebounds 7 assists 1 steal 1 block
Game 5 29 points 6 rebounds 2 assists 2 steals
Game 6 25 points 7 rebounds 7 assists 1 block

You call that choking? I even remembered he made a buzzer beater in the series...

Yeah I didnt fix my comment, But The rest of Cavs team choked and it's not like Dwight did it on his own.

Jarvo
04-29-2013, 11:13 AM
Either way you put it he needs to grow up and everything that's going on with him is because of him.

FYL_McVeezy
04-29-2013, 11:24 AM
If he stays in LA they will have to fire Antoni for him to become a dominant #1 option again. Kupchak needs to tear this team down and build around D12 with floor spacing and willing defenders....

The Kobe/D12 dynamic still has to be figured out for the next yr or two or however long Kobe plays for....Antoni isn't the man for the job. I laughed when LA signed him.

Dwight also will need a SOLID #2 option... preferably a PG or a wing...

FYL_McVeezy
04-29-2013, 11:25 AM
double post...

Randy West
04-29-2013, 11:28 AM
Howard had an opportunity to shine and he fouled his way out of it. He can't handle the pressure of being "the man" and wanted off the court.

After this season and all the fouling and you pick just that moment to vent at the officials? An elimination game when the team and organization are counting on you to really come through and that's how you act?

It's always going to be about Dwight, he doesn't care about the organization that signs his checks, his teammates or winning. He cares about himself, not someone to build around for the future.

FYL_McVeezy
04-29-2013, 11:29 AM
also...Houston might be a better situation for him then LA....

But I think Dwight was all of the amenities that LA offers (endorsements, exposure, etc)

YoungOne
04-29-2013, 11:56 AM
he never was and never will be a true number one player on a team contending for the title...

Stinkyoutsider
04-29-2013, 12:42 PM
I thought he was that guy when he played for the Magic (all but the last year as he pulled every trick in the book to get out of town).

I changed my mind after seeing him play for the Lakers this year. I gave him a big pass because of his back injury. Really does take a year or more to feel good again.

The problem with Dwight is he lacks game skills on the offensive side of the court. Defensively, I think he's put it all together to be the best defensive big we've seen in the NBA for a while. Rebounding, shot blocking, defending the rim are all tops. No one in the NBA better than him at it.

Offensively, he has a LOT of work to do. Start with his mindset. If players are crowding him in the paint, instead of trying to turn into them, just find the open guy. He turns the ball over far too much and can't shoot at the line, so it's easier for defenses to stop him. He really needs to take his time and refine his shooting motion because I'm not sure he's learned that he just can't get to the rim every time now. There's going to be times he needs to put up a shot 7 or 8 feet from the rim.

Really, he needs to follow Amare Stoudemire's path imo. Amare's offensive game was raw just like Howard's until Amare had his first microfracture surgery. He spent his rehab time developing a shooting touch and jumper and when he came back, he was twice as dangerous as before.

Could we imagine Dwight Howard having the touch and footwork that Tim Duncan has? If he develops this, I think he can be as good as Shaq, the guy he's been compared to since he's been in the league.

JordansBulls
04-29-2013, 01:52 PM
No, he never was the man at anytime for anything at all

Except he led a team to the finals with probably the worst backcourt all time and went thru prime Lebron in the process.

Bruno
04-29-2013, 02:21 PM
no, and if he ever was it was by the lowest of standards. the ONLY reason why the Magic made the finals in 2009 was because KG got injured. everyone in the NBA universe knows it should be have been Boston/LAL three years in a row.

TheNumber37
04-29-2013, 02:21 PM
LA needs to rebuild and look towards 2014...
Let Dwight go, sure he is a dominant big, but you can't win with him as your best player. Is it really worth retaining a guy that just CAN't get it done. Even if he stays in L.A, is any team really stopping OKC in the next couple years...

Blow it up, send Dwight to Houston for Asik, Lin, Parsons and a pick
or to Atlanta for Horford and Korver and a 1st

Send Pau (really wanna see the Gasol Bros play together)
somewhere too and Trade Nash to Toronto where he can retire in peace.

phantasyyy
04-29-2013, 02:55 PM
dwight will never be the man lmao his maturity level is terrible. he just doesnt have the mindset of a 1st option player tbh... the ideal team for him was that 09 magic team until the fo blew it up w/ that carter trade...

blahblahyoutoo
04-29-2013, 05:26 PM
he's a superstar. he's not only paid to lead the team to W's, he's paid to be a leader, meaning not complaining about fouls and getting ejected.

the plain truth is that dwight is an athletic, immature big guy that doesn't have basketball skills or smarts.
he is not a #1 option for any team hoping to go far in the playoffs (don't even bring up that magic run).



He laid an absolute egg while scoring and rebound 20 & 15 in game 1, 16 & 9 in game 2, and 25 &11 in game 3.

I don't know about you but this is one of those cases where you absolutely have to take into consideration the fact that our starting PG was injured, as well as our starting SG, our backup PG, our backup SG, and our starting SF.

Cracka2HI!
04-29-2013, 05:31 PM
I don't think he ever has been. I know his team made a deep run once but that was because the East was pathetic. The Lakers likely won't have a Championship window during Howards career so if he doesn't change teams my answer is no.

blahblahyoutoo
04-29-2013, 05:35 PM
no. orlando at that time were a better team. and howard abused the cavs interior defense.
although imo howard is very overrated and there is no way in hell that 09 run to the finals was only because of him.

it's not. hedo and nelson were having career years.

RLundi
04-29-2013, 05:41 PM
it's not. hedo and nelson were having career years.

You realize Nelson missed most of the season and playoffs right?

SteBO
04-29-2013, 05:46 PM
no, and if he ever was it was by the lowest of standards. the ONLY reason why the Magic made the finals in 2009 was because KG got injured. everyone in the NBA universe knows it should be have been Boston/LAL three years in a row.
You mean every rational fan in the NBA universe knows it should've gone that way. I can guarantee you a lot of people would've gone Cleveland in that spot.

RLundi
04-29-2013, 05:50 PM
no, and if he ever was it was by the lowest of standards. the ONLY reason why the Magic made the finals in 2009 was because KG got injured. everyone in the NBA universe knows it should be have been Boston/LAL three years in a row.

So the Celtics surely would've beat the 66-win Cavs?

Showtime Steve
04-29-2013, 05:51 PM
His offense is hard to watch. I hate when big men bring the ball down instead of keeping it high. Bynum offensively was far superior. That's why Dwight can't carry a team. One trick pony: bully in the post that doesn't like to be pushed back.

Bruno
04-29-2013, 08:19 PM
So the Celtics surely would've beat the 66-win Cavs?

with a healthy KG? Boston went 62-20 in 2009 despite KG missing 25 games.

I think so. Rondo, Allen, Pierce, KG, Perkins and the rest of their bench lead by Tony Allen, Glen Davis and Eddie House would have done just as good of a job of corralling LBJs supporting cast as Orlando did. Orlando was the top ranked defensive team, but Boston was right behind them at #2 in defensive rating. thats despite their defensive anchor missing 25 games; remember KG was the reigning defensive player of the year at the time of his injury.

they (6th in offensive rating) also had more fire power offensively than Orlando (11th), and were the reigning champions. I think they would have beaten Cleveland just like they did in 2008 and 2010.

Bruno
04-29-2013, 08:20 PM
You mean every rational fan in the NBA universe knows it should've gone that way. I can guarantee you a lot of people would've gone Cleveland in that spot.

in retrospect, with a healthy KG its an easy call.

people tend to get caught up in the moment of regular season records and playoff positioning when making their predictions in the moment.

b@llhog24
04-29-2013, 08:36 PM
He is the best center in the league. But he's also a liability at the end of close games.
You cannot depend on him on offense. Limited moves, TO-prone if he has to dribble, bad shooting mechanics. He needs to be in the low-low-post to be somewhat efficient.

He's a beast on defense, we all know that. So he needs a team suited to his abilities. He for sure needs a PF who can shoot the 3.

Basically, just surround Dwight with a stretch 4, and the others should be great shooters and defenders.

You need Dwight to be in a very good defensive team, because you'll need the "you will score less points than us" mentality on your team. Also, great defense leads to some easy baskets per game.

The plan for Dwight on offense is:

1. Have your PF draw out his man to the perimeter, so Dwight can go 1v1 in the low post.
2. Dwight will be able to have his man in foul trouble and/or command a double team.
3. Practice ball-movement extensively.
4. Practice under the basket screens, so Dwight can get his position near the rim as possible.

With this you'll have a somewhat predictable but efficient offense.

He needs a shot creator more than anything.

ldawg
04-29-2013, 08:50 PM
No this is no longer a big mans game he will need a dynamic player by his side that will always steal spot light. Howard is an ok player not great and at times he is a liability Stan knew this and la tried throwing him the ball inside but when he gets it he does little either turn it over or stone the back board. It does not help he is an awful free throw shooter so teams play him for the foul. He will not get easy shots because they will not back off in fear of sending him to the line. He needs a Lebron, a wade, a Durant, etc in other words he can be a vital player on a championship team but he can't be your best. A pg that can get in the paint can make him look good however. Howard was mad at Stan for not given him more looks but Howard is just not that great in the post. He wants to slow the game yet he is at best with a quicker pace. Howard want to do every thing he is not good at and I find that funny. Making it to the finals in a weak conference that 1 year spoil him. He really don't don't understand what it will take to get back there.

ragee
04-29-2013, 09:08 PM
Yeah I didnt fix my comment, But The rest of Cavs team choked and it's not like Dwight did it on his own.

He didn't but he was an integral part of that team. There's no way the magic could have made the playoffs without him...

Tony_Starks
04-29-2013, 09:22 PM
Nope. He hasn't improved offensively since then. He has a grand total of 2 post moves. His best bet is to become a Noah type player but I don't think he's tough enough mentally to do it....

WhiteSoxGod
04-30-2013, 04:04 AM
If he comes to the Rockets he wouldn't have to be "the man". Harden and he could share responsibilities surrounded by youth and athleticism. Dwight with the Rockets would be the best fit and situation for him.

Kevj77
04-30-2013, 06:58 AM
Dwight can definately be part of a 1-2 punch with a proper supporting cast that can win a title. At 100% he can be a 20-10 player and a defensive anchor. His offense isn't the same when he isn't 100% because without he donminated by being atheletic, he doesn't have the post moves, 10 foot jumper or FT% to be a go to player on offense or in crunch time without that. That is why he needs not just a sidekick, but an equal to be paired with that can handle the wing and be the go to guy especially in late game situations.

Novak43
04-30-2013, 10:03 AM
"The man" is a team's unquestioned leader. He will never be this. His childish antics are the stuff of legend.

"The man" takes the last shot. He will never do this.

No. He will never be "the man," though maybe he will be in in his own mind.

JasonJohnHorn
04-30-2013, 01:47 PM
The Magic it made it to the finals once with him. He lead the team in scoring that year, but surprisingly he was not the first option. There were four guys who average more FG per game than Dwight. I'm not sure if that's ever happen that a guy who was tied for fourth on his teams for FGper lead the team in scoring (and two most guys were within one shot of what Dwight was getting).

Hid defence was great then, but the coaching was what made the difference I think. SVG got the most out of that team. They had great chemistry, a great outside game, and they were running in sync. It's hard to do that. That offseason they let Turk go and made some trades. Fresh faces. Not as much chemistry and a high level of expectations. The thing was, in 09 it was a perfect storm for the Magic. They matched up really well for whatever reason against the Cavs, they didn't have to play the Pistons, Boston lost Garnett to injury, and their shooters were all stroking the ball well. But even then Dwight was going into post-game interviews saying he should get the ball more, and when they got to the finals, they were embarrassed by the Lakers demonstrating that despite getting to the finals, there really weren't a championship caliber team that season.

Was Dwight the reason that team was in the finals? No, though he was one of the reasons. There were several reasons. Detroit's down fall, Garnett's injury, the Cavs laying an egg, great coaching, great shooting and great defence (anchored by Howard). But they weren't as god as the Celtics with Garnett and they clearly were not as good as the Lakers.

Dwight can help a team win a championship, but I do not believe he is capable of leading a team to a championship. I just don't see it in him. Pau was leading this team when Kobe went down, passing the ball, getting people involved, getting Dwight involved. This was Diwght's chance to step up and he didn't. He seemed to have given up before the series even started.

Chitownhero1992
04-30-2013, 02:12 PM
Was he ever the man on a championship caliber team? If you are referring to the Magic team that made it to the Finals they had no shot at winning the championship.

Dwight will never be "The Man" on a championship team, he is a #2 option and should be if he wants to win a championship. He needs a guy next to him that leads the team but also who can rely on him when he needs.

Chronz
04-30-2013, 02:21 PM
Was he ever the man on a championship caliber team? If you are referring to the Magic team that made it to the Finals they had no shot at winning the championship.

Dwight will never be "The Man" on a championship team, he is a #2 option and should be if he wants to win a championship. He needs a guy next to him that leads the team but also who can rely on him when he needs.
So no one other than the Lakers were a championship caliber team?

lol, please
04-30-2013, 02:26 PM
Exactly. Which is why he would fit well coming off the bench for Bogut, or vica-versa.

Curry, Klay, Barnes, Lee, Dwight? Championship.

Chitownhero1992
04-30-2013, 02:27 PM
So no one other than the Lakers were a championship caliber team?

What do you mean, you mean the Lakers from the year they beat the Magic? Because hell no you had the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Cavs all were more championship ready then the Magic, Magic just got hot shooting and road it to the finals and imploded.

Or are you referring to where Dwight ended up since he said he wanted to be on a contender such as LA, Brooklyn, etc...because even that I disagree with I thought the LA experiment was a bad idea. Dwight would've been better off In Orlando then going to LA.

ChicagoFan4Eva
04-30-2013, 02:31 PM
He needs a good coach that won't take **** from him. I feel like he could do whatever he wanted in LA with D'antoni running it. No one believed in the coach.. The fans don't believe in the coach.. LA needs to land Phil.
Sadly, that's probably their only option. He could go to the Rockets Bulls or Nets but I highly doubt it. He will probably stay in LA and LA will fire dantoni. Lakers front office is stupid for not signing phil. The man led them to multiple championships.

ldawg
04-30-2013, 06:36 PM
No Howard needs a Kobe,Lebron,Durant, Harden,etc and as crazy as it sound a bosh. Anyone who is more reliable in the clutch of the game. A team like he had in Orlando befor he started I want the ball more and want it more in the clutch bs. Stan knew that was not best for Howard. Nothing has changed teams still hack a Howard and hope they trow it to him in the post. Howard is a quick move player not very good in the post.

ldawg
04-30-2013, 06:36 PM
IMO Howard need to do what Stan had him do in Orlando. Be that defensive guy, feed of lobs put backs, run the floor make quick points. He is not a reliable post player it's just like his free throws. It changes not even game to game but play to play

RLundi
04-30-2013, 07:14 PM
What do you mean, you mean the Lakers from the year they beat the Magic? Because hell no you had the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Cavs all were more championship ready then the Magic, Magic just got hot shooting and road it to the finals and imploded.

Or are you referring to where Dwight ended up since he said he wanted to be on a contender such as LA, Brooklyn, etc...because even that I disagree with I thought the LA experiment was a bad idea. Dwight would've been better off In Orlando then going to LA.

Lol your lack of basketball knowledge is startling. Cleveland, Boston, LA and Orlando were the only true contenders. The Magic won 59 games that year, had the best defense in the league and a top 10 offense. They didn't "get hot" versus Cleveland at all; they just matched up well.

Dwight was the man on that team and they made it to the Finals. Will it happen again, who knows? But don't try to act like it didn't already happen.

D-Leethal
04-30-2013, 07:21 PM
He sure didn't sound like he wanted to be in LA in his presser today. He sounded like such a *****. Basically said the pressure to win in LA was too much for his liking.

lol, please
04-30-2013, 07:23 PM
Lol your lack of basketball knowledge is startling. Cleveland, Boston, LA and Orlando were the only true contenders. The Magic won 59 games that year, had the best defense in the league and a top 10 offense. They didn't "get hot" versus Cleveland at all; they just matched up well.

Dwight was the man on that team and they made it to the Finals. Will it happen again, who knows?But don't try to act like it didn't already happen.
:laugh2:

RLundi
04-30-2013, 07:28 PM
:laugh2:

I'm glad I amuse you. Do you have anything remotely analytical/astute to add to the discussion?

lol, please
04-30-2013, 07:33 PM
I'm glad I amuse you. Do you have anything remotely analytical/astute to add to the discussion?
Not at the moment, no. I am amusing myself whislt I wait for the Warriors/Nuggets game, carry on. :)

RLundi
04-30-2013, 07:34 PM
Not at the moment, no. I am amusing myself whislt I wait for the Warriors/Nuggets game, carry on. :)

Attaboy.

Chronz
04-30-2013, 10:22 PM
What do you mean, you mean the Lakers from the year they beat the Magic? Because hell no you had the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Cavs all were more championship ready then the Magic, Magic just got hot shooting and road it to the finals and imploded.

What makes you think those teams were championship caliber teams if 2 of them lost to Dwight's Magic? And the Spurs were out in R.1?

I cant make sense of your logic.

Avenged
04-30-2013, 11:08 PM
he's a superstar. he's not only paid to lead the team to W's, he's paid to be a leader, meaning not complaining about fouls and getting ejected.

the plain truth is that dwight is an athletic, immature big guy that doesn't have basketball skills or smarts.
he is not a #1 option for any team hoping to go far in the playoffs (don't even bring up that magic run).

Well that makes no sense. "Tell me why Dwight will never be a 1st option but you can't use proof"

:rolleyes