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krisxsong
04-27-2013, 09:53 PM
Hi all.

I'm not trolling or anything, just an honest question I wanted to ask my NBA peers.

What do you guys think of Brook Lopez? Has his perception changed from the past in your eyes? Has he gotten better? Where does he rank?

I just want to know what the general NBA fans think of him, that is all.

I personally have the top 5 Centers like this(when healthy).....

1. Dwight Howard
2. Marc Gasol
3. Joakim Noah/Brook Lopez
4. Joakim Noah/Brook Lopez
5. Tyson Chandler

The reason I don't have Andrew Bynum in there is because he's never healthy and he's such a headcase that it actually detracts from the overall impact he has on the game on the court. No I don't think Dwight is at that level yet.

knicks=love
04-27-2013, 09:55 PM
god almighty, here we go again.

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 09:58 PM
god almighty, here we go again.

Has this thread been done before? Fill me in quick then with what was said so mods can close this.

OceanSpray
04-27-2013, 10:04 PM
Man, no defense and his rebounding is atrocious. I'd put Tim Duncan in there as well.

LAKobeBryant
04-27-2013, 10:09 PM
bynum averaged 20 and 12 last year when "he's never healthy"

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 10:09 PM
Man, no defense and his rebounding is atrocious. I'd put Tim Duncan in there as well.

No defense? I beg to differ, he actually plays some defense now. His man to man defense is okay, his length can really bother people and of course he's a great shot blocker now and no shot blocking isn't a good way to measure defense but a rim protector is very important.

I WOULD put Timmy in there, except that I don't consider him a Center even though he does play both PF and C.

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 10:11 PM
bynum averaged 20 and 12 last year when "he's never healthy"

More like 18 and 11.

I live in Orange COunty I know who he is and what he did. I said he's never healthy and his off court drama detracts from his on court production.

He's like Demarcus Cousins in the sense of his off/on court actions detracting from his production.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bynuman01.html

D-Leethal
04-27-2013, 10:12 PM
His offensive game is much better than I gave him credit for. Hes a very tough cover, has many ways to score on you, has a wide array of moves and counters on the block. He stumped Noah a few times with his counter moves and you rarely ever see guys smoke him down on the block 1 on 1.

I personally think your C needs to be more mobile if you want to defend at a high level. Brook is very slowfooted. He plays decent half court D because of his size and ability to eat up space but he is terrible at helping on the perimeter, guarding screens, and helping/recovering. Those are the most important aspects of defense for big men in today's PG driven NBA. Thats what separates Noah from the rest in that regard. Reminds me a lot of Rik Smits.

OceanSpray
04-27-2013, 10:13 PM
No defense? I beg to differ, he actually plays some defense now. His man to man defense is okay, his length can really bother people and of course he's a great shot blocker now and no shot blocking isn't a good way to measure defense but a rim protector is very important.

I WOULD put Timmy in there, except that I don't consider him a Center even though he does play both PF and C.

Compared to Noah, Gasol, Chandler, and Tim? Nah, his defense ain't good.

Shammyguy3
04-27-2013, 10:18 PM
He's gotten better in my eyes. A better defensive player than I originally gave credit for, but still a sub-par rebounder. He's not in my top-5 though.

In no particular order I have Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, Al Horford, and Tyson Chandler in my top-5. Omer Asik's also right there with Chandler. And if you count Duncan/Garnett/Bosh as centers (which they all were this year), then Lopez drops behind Duncan and Bosh for sure.

And if Varejao stayed healthy all year and maintained his production, he'd be another guy I'd slot higher than Brook Lopez. If Bogut and Bynum were ever healthy, they'd potentially both be ahead of him too. Don't forget about Pekovic who's having a great season too. I definitely have Gortat/Hibbert/Monroe behind him.


I think it's silly when people say there are no centers in this league. Because there are A LOT. And a lot of good ones. Just not the offensive powerhouse types that spoiled us in the 80s/90s. In this single post I mentioned 16 centers.

ManRam
04-27-2013, 10:20 PM
lopez was never nearly as bad as people made him out to be the previous two seasons.

his rebounding woes are overblown and not as serious as they're made out to be.

glad he's finally getting universal acclaim.

b@llhog24
04-27-2013, 10:21 PM
Marc and Timmy are the only Cs I'd take definitively over him this year.

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 10:43 PM
Compared to Noah, Gasol, Chandler, and Tim? Nah, his defense ain't good.

What? What in the world?

So if you don't play defense like the best defensive bigs in the NBA, one being DPOY, then you play bad defense?

I never said he plays defense like them. That was really random.

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 10:46 PM
Also, while he IS a poor rebounder, he's not as poor as people think. His job is to box out and let his teammates grab rebounds.

I don't mind if you think I'm making excuses and what not.

Statistically, Lopez boxes out opponents a very impressive 59.7% of the time. Reggie Evans only does 20.9% of the time.

This is what happens.

Shot goes up, Lopez boxes out, Reggie lurks around the rim and then grabs the rebound.

Per NBA.com: When Evans shares the court with Lopez, he grabs 41.3% of all available defensive rebounds. To compare, Dennis Rodman's highest rebound rate in any season was 38.7%.

Source: http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 10:47 PM
Marc and Timmy are the only Cs I'd take definitively over him this year.

Hm. I disagree with Timmy only because he's so much older so I'd rather have Brook. If they were both in their prime, well I think Timmy is the best PF of all time so yeah.

D-Leethal
04-27-2013, 10:55 PM
Also, while he IS a poor rebounder, he's not as poor as people think. His job is to box out and let his teammates grab rebounds.

I don't mind if you think I'm making excuses and what not.

Statistically, Lopez boxes out opponents a very impressive 59.7% of the time. Reggie Evans only does 20.9% of the time.

This is what happens.

Shot goes up, Lopez boxes out, Reggie lurks around the rim and then grabs the rebound.

Per NBA.com: When Evans shares the court with Lopez, he grabs 41.3% of all available defensive rebounds. To compare, Dennis Rodman's highest rebound rate in any season was 38.7%.

Source: http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/

Yea I read that article a few weeks ago, definitely made some sense. I remember the Knicks had the best rebounding team when we sucked in 2007 with Eddy Curry, everyone bashed Curry for his 7 rpg but he suffered the same treatment. He would use his body to box out while the rest took a rebound by committee approach. That is all by design, some bigs are told to find a body some bigs are told to go get the ball.

D-Leethal
04-27-2013, 10:56 PM
But dude, why even make this thread if your just gonna try to convince everyone hes as awesome as you think he is? You wanted our opinion, you got it, your rants aren't going to change it.

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 11:01 PM
But dude, why even make this thread if your just gonna try to convince everyone hes as awesome as you think he is? You wanted our opinion, you got it, your rants aren't going to change it.

I'm not allowed to put my input into how I view him? Somebody mentioned that he's still a ****** rebounder so I brought that up, how is that a rant?

Yes I wanted everyone's view on him. Am I not allowed to have a discussion based on that view? Does it seem like a troll thing to do? I honestly asking.

JOhnnyTHaJet
04-27-2013, 11:26 PM
Why ask the opinion of PSD? It's not like they're going to give intelligent answers.

Take a look at the Lopez threads last year, a good amount of people were calling the kid "one of the worst players in the league". Now he's actually having a great year and improving his defense at only 24 and he gets called an okay player.

Not many are going to see the value he brings to the Nets and will still stay in their mindset until they absolutely have to admit how solid of a player he is. I don't care if " Im just a Nets fan" the kid should be getting some respect around these parts.

krisxsong
04-27-2013, 11:56 PM
Why ask the opinion of PSD? It's not like they're going to give intelligent answers.

Take a look at the Lopez threads last year, a good amount of people were calling the kid "one of the worst players in the league". Now he's actually having a great year and improving his defense at only 24 and he gets called an okay player.

Not many are going to see the value he brings to the Nets and will still stay in their mindset until they absolutely have to admit how solid of a player he is. I don't care if " Im just a Nets fan" the kid should be getting some respect around these parts.

I didn't come to the NBA forum a lot last year so I never saw any Lopez threads.

MrfadeawayJB
04-27-2013, 11:59 PM
Good offensive player, good weak side blocker. Pretty much ends there

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 12:06 AM
Good offensive player, good weak side blocker. Pretty much ends there

When you confine his offensive ability into 3 words yes it seems small.

king4day
04-28-2013, 12:47 AM
As far as centers go, he's elite. Not the best but top 3 at the least.

shep33
04-28-2013, 01:01 AM
Lopez is good. I'd say he's easily the best offensive center in the NBA.

shep33
04-28-2013, 01:01 AM
Also, he's an underrated shot blocker

mvb815
04-28-2013, 01:07 AM
i actually like the points you're making to defend him, and i think he is a very capable center with a sweet jumper

but i think they need to put a more solid PF next to him before we can really see him shine, someone to help him lock down the paint and on offense drive defenders to the inside more to get the shooters open

LAcowBOMBER
04-28-2013, 01:22 AM
More like 18 and 11.

I live in Orange COunty I know who he is and what he did. I said he's never healthy and his off court drama detracts from his on court production.

He's like Demarcus Cousins in the sense of his off/on court actions detracting from his production.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bynuman01.html

More like 19 and 12. What does he do off the court that takes away from his production? He does seem to have a problem staying healthy though

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 02:08 AM
More like 19 and 12. What does he do off the court that takes away from his production? He does seem to have a problem staying healthy though

Yeah I usually don't round stats but okay.

18.7 and 11.8 is still a bit ways from 20 and 12 though.

Anyway...

1) Following the game 5 loss in the playoffs about to face his first free agency he said "I'll play anywhere, it doesn't matter". This shows that he has no dedication to his team and that he's all about himself and won't play hard for his teammates. If he won't play for his teammates, his teammates won't play for him. Disaster waiting to happen.

2) The dude wants to be the man. Okay there is no problem with this at all, actually it's a good thing to be aggressive. However he's straight up crossed the line of aggressiveness and sheer cockiness and arrogance. When he doesn't get the ball, he throws a straight up *****-fit on the court.

3) His inability to accept a tough loss. His team getting their ***** kicked, he clotheslines JJ Barea and celebrates the ejection by taking off his jersey and smiling while walking to the locker room.

4) His sheer utter stupidity and lack maturity. Not only did he not join in on Mike Brown's huddles, he openly admitted it as if it were normal. They asked him what Kobe was like in the huddle and he straight up said "I don't know, I don't part take in the huddles." Another small, but big indication of his personality was him parking his car diagonally in a handicap spot so he can take fewer steps to the building. Do I need to mention him skipping out on his one on one meeting with Mitch Kupchak?

He has received numerous, numerous fines, infractions from the Lakers and even suspensions from the league for his stupid act but he still doesn't get it.

Finally the dumbest move of all was firing Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Actually no, the dumbest move was the reason behind it. He said "I have nothing else to learn from you". This dumbass seriously just told possible the greatest center to ever live that he's done learning from him.

Lakers fans think Dwight's immature, sheesh how quickly they forget Bynum.

Bynum is ALL about himself, his stats, his money, and his fame. He couldn't care less if his team wins 5 games a year as long as he plays in a big market making big bucks putting up big stats. Proof?

“Dwight is very committed to playing and winning,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “Andrew has been up and down on that issue. There are times he wants to play, do a great job and he goes out and does it. Then there are other times where it seems like he’s not focused….

“When I first started working with him, he was eager to learn,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “He appreciated me shortening the learning curve. Once he figured he did everything he wanted to do in terms of learning, he didn’t want me to bother him constantly going over the fundamentals.” - Kareem.



All of this does take away from your value to a team. Now if you want to talk about just sheer numbers then okay it doesn't really take away from his numbers but it significantly detracts from his value, which is a big part of how good you are as a player.

Chitownhero1992
04-28-2013, 03:09 AM
Anyone that is over 6'11" and can't rebound more than 5-6 a game, is not an all-star at their position. I don't care if he scores 20+ppg every night, your huge rebound the basketball.

Besides his rebounding his game is amazing, good shot blocking tendencies, great post moves, solid out-side shot for a bigman, defense can use some help sometimes but that's only because he is just a step slow.

Good center overall but he needs to rebound the ball more.

Bruno
04-28-2013, 03:11 AM
Also, while he IS a poor rebounder, he's not as poor as people think. His job is to box out and let his teammates grab rebounds.

I don't mind if you think I'm making excuses and what not.

Statistically, Lopez boxes out opponents a very impressive 59.7% of the time. Reggie Evans only does 20.9% of the time.

This is what happens.

Shot goes up, Lopez boxes out, Reggie lurks around the rim and then grabs the rebound.

Per NBA.com: When Evans shares the court with Lopez, he grabs 41.3% of all available defensive rebounds. To compare, Dennis Rodman's highest rebound rate in any season was 38.7%.

Source: http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/

interesting information.

but what's the explanation for his 6.0 rebounds per game in 2011 before reggie joined the nets?

we have guards in the NBA who average as many rebounds per game, just sayin. for the record, i'm a fan of his game- spare the rebounding.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 03:22 AM
interesting information.

but what's the explanation for his 6.0 rebounds per game in 2011 before reggie joined the nets?

we have guards in the NBA who average as many rebounds per game, just sayin. for the record, i'm a fan of his game- spare the rebounding.

He had a serious bout of mono and I believe lost about 20-30 pounds. If you saw pictures of him, his arms look like twigs.

But again he's not a good rebounder I'm not trying to make that point, just that he's no nearly as bad as people make him out to be.

Bruno
04-28-2013, 04:03 AM
He had a serious bout of mono and I believe lost about 20-30 pounds. If you saw pictures of him, his arms look like twigs.

But again he's not a good rebounder I'm not trying to make that point, just that he's no nearly as bad as people make him out to be.

i can get behind him being good at boxing out. but being a decent rebounder is more than just boxing out- you gotta come down with the ball and finish the job.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 04:25 AM
i can get behind him being good at boxing out. but being a decent rebounder is more than just boxing out- you gotta come down with the ball and finish the job.

For sure, but that's the thing he's not a good rebounder. I'm not trying to make the case that he's good at it. I'm trying to point out that he does more than people know when it comes to rebounding.

Avenged
04-28-2013, 04:44 AM
lopez was never nearly as bad as people made him out to be the previous two seasons.

his rebounding woes are overblown and not as serious as they're made out to be.

glad he's finally getting universal acclaim.

But only his rebounding woes aren't overblown at all, and it is serious when we're talking about a 7'0 center.

He averaged 6.9 rebounds this past season... 6 in 2010-2011, and his first 2 seasons 8rpg (so he's actually gotten worse as the years have gone by -- REBOUNDING % has gone down as well)

In this year's playoffs he's at 7.5rpg (netting 5 in the first 2 games), 9 in game 3 (not double figures but not too shabby either), and 11 in game 4 (the game that went to triple overtime in which he played 51 minutes)

He is a great offensive center, probably best right behind Duncan.. But those rebounds have to go up.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 04:51 AM
But only his rebounding woes aren't overblown at all, and it is serious when we're talking about a 7'0 center.

He averaged 6.9 rebounds this past season... 6 in 2010-2011, and his first 2 seasons 8rpg (so he's actually gotten worse as the years have gone by -- REBOUNDING % has gone down as well)

In this year's playoffs he's at 7.5rpg (netting 5 in the first 2 games), 9 in game 3 (not double figures but not too shabby either), and 11 in game 4 (the game that went to triple overtime in which he played 51 minutes)

He is a great offensive center, probably best right behind Duncan.. But those rebounds have to go up.

His rebounding skills didn't diminish at age 24.

When he averaged 6 RPG in 2011, he had mono and lost 20-30 lbs. That was a big reason why.

Also his job is to box men out and allow Reggie to crash the boards. Proof? He boxes out 60% of the time, Reggie only does it 20%.

The reason that's his role IMO is because of three reasons

1) Lopez is freaking humongous

2) Reggie is a monster at roaming around the rim for boards. He obliterated Dennis Rodman's career high DefRB%.

3) Lopez can't find his man quick which doesn't allow him to focus on the ball off the rim thus they usually just have him keep guys out of the paint.

Not being able to find his man quickly is a poor rebounding skill, but being able to box out well is a good rebounding skill.

He's not good at rebounding. If he were a roamer like Reggie I say he gets 9ish. Not good, but not nearly as bad as people make it seem.

LAcowBOMBER
04-28-2013, 06:44 AM
dp

LAcowBOMBER
04-28-2013, 06:47 AM
Yeah I usually don't round stats but okay.

18.7 and 11.8 is still a bit ways from 20 and 12 though.

Anyway...

1) Following the game 5 loss in the playoffs about to face his first free agency he said "I'll play anywhere, it doesn't matter". This shows that he has no dedication to his team and that he's all about himself and won't play hard for his teammates. If he won't play for his teammates, his teammates won't play for him. Disaster waiting to happen.

2) The dude wants to be the man. Okay there is no problem with this at all, actually it's a good thing to be aggressive. However he's straight up crossed the line of aggressiveness and sheer cockiness and arrogance. When he doesn't get the ball, he throws a straight up *****-fit on the court.

3) His inability to accept a tough loss. His team getting their ***** kicked, he clotheslines JJ Barea and celebrates the ejection by taking off his jersey and smiling while walking to the locker room.

4) His sheer utter stupidity and lack maturity. Not only did he not join in on Mike Brown's huddles, he openly admitted it as if it were normal. They asked him what Kobe was like in the huddle and he straight up said "I don't know, I don't part take in the huddles." Another small, but big indication of his personality was him parking his car diagonally in a handicap spot so he can take fewer steps to the building. Do I need to mention him skipping out on his one on one meeting with Mitch Kupchak?

He has received numerous, numerous fines, infractions from the Lakers and even suspensions from the league for his stupid act but he still doesn't get it.

Finally the dumbest move of all was firing Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Actually no, the dumbest move was the reason behind it. He said "I have nothing else to learn from you". This dumbass seriously just told possible the greatest center to ever live that he's done learning from him.

Lakers fans think Dwight's immature, sheesh how quickly they forget Bynum.

Bynum is ALL about himself, his stats, his money, and his fame. He couldn't care less if his team wins 5 games a year as long as he plays in a big market making big bucks putting up big stats. Proof?

“Dwight is very committed to playing and winning,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “Andrew has been up and down on that issue. There are times he wants to play, do a great job and he goes out and does it. Then there are other times where it seems like he’s not focused….

“When I first started working with him, he was eager to learn,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “He appreciated me shortening the learning curve. Once he figured he did everything he wanted to do in terms of learning, he didn’t want me to bother him constantly going over the fundamentals.” - Kareem.



All of this does take away from your value to a team. Now if you want to talk about just sheer numbers then okay it doesn't really take away from his numbers but it significantly detracts from his value, which is a big part of how good you are as a player.

1. Those stats are closer to 19 and 12 than 18 and 11.

2. His was a free agent. Why would he say he is only going to play in LA or any city for that matter?

3. Many great young players get upset when they aren't fed the ball.

4. Him clotheslining Barea in one situation does not mean he can't accept loss, you're reaching there

5.Mike Brown was an idiot. Bynum should have joined the huddles, but I don't know why you think it took away from the team. If it was a big enough problem Kobe would have been ragging on him in the media

6. Him not working with Kareem may not have been the smartest move, but not wanting to have Kareem constantly talking to him about fundamentals doesn't mean he is somehow a bad person

7. You clearly don't like Bynum and your are biased when it comes to him. I really don't feel strongly either way, but he is the second best center when healthy

KnicksorBust
04-28-2013, 12:55 PM
Also, while he IS a poor rebounder, he's not as poor as people think. His job is to box out and let his teammates grab rebounds.

I don't mind if you think I'm making excuses and what not.

Statistically, Lopez boxes out opponents a very impressive 59.7% of the time. Reggie Evans only does 20.9% of the time.

This is what happens.

Shot goes up, Lopez boxes out, Reggie lurks around the rim and then grabs the rebound.

Per NBA.com: When Evans shares the court with Lopez, he grabs 41.3% of all available defensive rebounds. To compare, Dennis Rodman's highest rebound rate in any season was 38.7%.

Source: http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/

This post is blatantly misleading. The box out percentage that you are giving is one guy's analysis over a 3 game sample size. We can hardly apply that to his entire career.


But only his rebounding woes aren't overblown at all, and it is serious when we're talking about a 7'0 center.

He averaged 6.9 rebounds this past season... 6 in 2010-2011, and his first 2 seasons 8rpg (so he's actually gotten worse as the years have gone by -- REBOUNDING % has gone down as well)

In this year's playoffs he's at 7.5rpg (netting 5 in the first 2 games), 9 in game 3 (not double figures but not too shabby either), and 11 in game 4 (the game that went to triple overtime in which he played 51 minutes)

He is a great offensive center, probably best right behind Duncan.. But those rebounds have to go up.

Exactly. It also irritates me to no end that he wasn't working hard to post-up and get touches in the overtimes. I don't care how sexy his box score looked... we got to see way too many ****** JJ, Deron, CJ Watson shots when a true big man should have been calling for the ball against an injured over his limit Noah.

waveycrockett
04-28-2013, 01:01 PM
Exactly. It also irritates me to no end that he wasn't working hard to post-up and get touches in the overtimes. I don't care how sexy his box score looked... we got to see way too many ****** JJ, Deron, CJ Watson shots when a true big man should have been calling for the ball against an injured over his limit Noah.

He was being asked to come out and screen on the perimeter for DWILL. The entire focus of our offense was to run DWILL off a bunch of screens which is why he was playing out of his mind before his legs gave out. You cant just throw the ball in the post to Lopez because Evans gets no respect. Boozer and Noah collapse on Lopez and force bad shots. Thats why PJC is such a ****** coach. If Blatche and Lopez played together this wouldn't happen.

Hawkeye15
04-28-2013, 01:25 PM
He has a case as the best offensive center in the league. His rebounding is not as putrid as many make it out to be, he is at least around average to slightly below average. He isn't an elite defender, but his team is better defensively with him on the floor. Easily a top 5 center now, with potential to be an elite center for his career.

ManRam
04-28-2013, 01:38 PM
His rebounding skills didn't diminish at age 24.

When he averaged 6 RPG in 2011, he had mono and lost 20-30 lbs. That was a big reason why.

Also his job is to box men out and allow Reggie to crash the boards. Proof? He boxes out 60% of the time, Reggie only does it 20%.

The reason that's his role IMO is because of three reasons

1) Lopez is freaking humongous

2) Reggie is a monster at roaming around the rim for boards. He obliterated Dennis Rodman's career high DefRB%.

3) Lopez can't find his man quick which doesn't allow him to focus on the ball off the rim thus they usually just have him keep guys out of the paint.

Not being able to find his man quickly is a poor rebounding skill, but being able to box out well is a good rebounding skill.

He's not good at rebounding. If he were a roamer like Reggie I say he gets 9ish. Not good, but not nearly as bad as people make it seem.

i agree with this train of thought for the most part. lopez didn't suddenly forget how to rebound. the team is an above average rebounding team, and one of the absolute best in terms of offensive rebounding. the team isn't suffering from his lack of rebounding at all...in fact, he probably does contribute more than the stats suggest.

i think there are some holes in that thebrooklygame.com piece (everyone needs to read the original piece: http://hoopchalk.com/2013/04/16/why-cant-brook-lopez-rebound-he-boxes-out-too-much/ )

7 rebounds a game is low. 13.4% TRB% isn't impressive, but it isn't absolutely terrible either...especially when playing the vast majority of his minutes alongside reggie evans and even kris humphries. evans rebounds at an historically high rate...it's fair to assume that he's tapping into brook's per game rebound numbers a good bit more than the average PF taps into any other center in the league.

would we be so eager to bash him if he were a 19-8 player instead of a 19-7 player? probably not. 8 a game is marc gasol/ibaka/griffin territory. i think it's safe to assume that reggie is the only thing preventing that.


he's a below average rebounder, but it's not to other-worldly levels like people make it out to be.

KnickaBocka.44
04-28-2013, 01:45 PM
Also, while he IS a poor rebounder, he's not as poor as people think. His job is to box out and let his teammates grab rebounds.

I don't mind if you think I'm making excuses and what not.

Statistically, Lopez boxes out opponents a very impressive 59.7% of the time. Reggie Evans only does 20.9% of the time.

This is what happens.

Shot goes up, Lopez boxes out, Reggie lurks around the rim and then grabs the rebound.

Per NBA.com: When Evans shares the court with Lopez, he grabs 41.3% of all available defensive rebounds. To compare, Dennis Rodman's highest rebound rate in any season was 38.7%.

Source: http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/


In the history of basketball, there has never been a player whose job was to "let his teammates grab rebounds". Reggie has to box his man out as well and no matter how you cut it, a 7 footer should average way more than 6.9 rebounds per game

KnickaBocka.44
04-28-2013, 01:51 PM
Why ask the opinion of PSD? It's not like they're going to give intelligent answers.

Take a look at the Lopez threads last year, a good amount of people were calling the kid "one of the worst players in the league". Now he's actually having a great year and improving his defense at only 24 and he gets called an okay player.

Not many are going to see the value he brings to the Nets and will still stay in their mindset until they absolutely have to admit how solid of a player he is. I don't care if " Im just a Nets fan" the kid should be getting some respect around these parts.

Gross exaggeration.

ManRam
04-28-2013, 01:53 PM
Gross exaggeration.

it's a slight exaggeration. the crap he got this past offseason was outrageous.

waveycrockett
04-28-2013, 01:55 PM
Gross exaggeration.

People were comparing him to Bargani. Thats HORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIBLEEEEEEEEEE

KnickaBocka.44
04-28-2013, 02:44 PM
People were comparing him to Bargani. Thats HORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIBLEEEEEEEEEE

His rebounding and defense, yeah they were. And before this season it was warranted. He improved defensively this year in terms of shot blocking, but he is still pretty slow-footed and should get more rebounds, even if he is playing next to Evans a lot. Offensively he is very good, but most people weren't questioning that.

KnickaBocka.44
04-28-2013, 02:47 PM
it's a slight exaggeration. the crap he got this past offseason was outrageous.

Worst players in the league? No one with remote knowledge would say that. They must have been thinking of Robin, who, coincidentally, also improved a lot this year.

waveycrockett
04-28-2013, 02:55 PM
His rebounding and defense, yeah they were. And before this season it was warranted. He improved defensively this year in terms of shot blocking, but he is still pretty slow-footed and should get more rebounds, even if he is playing next to Evans a lot. Offensively he is very good, but most people weren't questioning that.

Defensively? He is milesss better defensively in the post than Bargs. Bargs gets posted up by Small Forwards.

Greet
04-28-2013, 02:59 PM
Lopez is a decent offensive rebounder too. Big reason the Nets are very effective on the offensive boards....

ManRam made a great point before, guys like Gasol/Ibaka/Griffin don't get knocked for their rebounding at all and they average 8 boards a game. I really think it's fair to say that without Reggie Evans on the court that Lopez would be averaging at least 8, instead of the 7 he does.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 04:10 PM
2. His was a free agent. Why would he say he is only going to play in LA or any city for that matter?

Can you tell me the last time a player who becoming a FA said after a tough playoff game, "I don't care where I play, I'll play anywhere." I'm not saying he only has to play in LA, I don't know why you think that. My point is, his maturity is so lacking that he doesn't have the sense to think that maybe he should just say "When the time comes I'll figure it out" or "That's for another day, right now I'm focused on this team".

It shows that he doesn't think before he acts, or really doesn't think at all. He has no idea what perception is and if I had to guess I would say he grew up without parental figures because that's how he acts. People that grow up without parental figures are usually immature, look for attention, and they don't know how to make decisions for their future.

NO I'm not saying ALL kids without parental figures in their lifetime are like this of course not, but the majority from what I've seen are.


3. Many great young players get upset when they aren't fed the ball.

Okay. How many of them throw a hissy fit on the court when they don't get the ball? I don't see Lopez doing this. I don't see Gasol doing this. Horford? Noah?

The only other player that does this is Demarcus Cousins and he's just as, if not more immature than Andrew Bynum.


4. Him clotheslining Barea in one situation does not mean he can't accept loss, you're reaching there

Okay. What does it mean? What does it mean when he physically takes a cheap shot at an unsuspecting, much smaller player? It's because he hates losing, and he's big fat sore loser at that.


5.Mike Brown was an idiot. Bynum should have joined the huddles, but I don't know why you think it took away from the team. If it was a big enough problem Kobe would have been ragging on him in the media

It doesn't matter if Brown is an idiot. So if Mike Brown were smart then Bynum doesn't get a pass? I'm trying really hard not to attack you, but when did I say this instance takes away from the team?

I said all these instances show that the extra drama he creates takes away from his production. How so? ALL of these instances show that he lacks mental thoughness, maturity, a team first mentality, and the true desire to win over anything else.

Do you not know what happened the last time Kobe ragged on somebody publicly? He lost his chance to win 4, 5, 6, maybe even 7 straight rings.


6. Him not working with Kareem may not have been the smartest move, but not wanting to have Kareem constantly talking to him about fundamentals doesn't mean he is somehow a bad person

Why are you going off subject? Him being a bad person has nothing to do with what we're talking about. All of these instances combined show you how much he lacks mentally. Sure physically the guys monster but he's essentially a 10 year old kid trapped inside a 23 year old body.

I've honestly met countless 10 year olds who are far more mature than that baby Andrew Bynum.

Him firing Kareem shows that he doesn't have motivation. Once he got the slightest taste of success he stopped working because it was good enough to him. Why was it good enough to him? Because to so many players, they would rather be lazy while being an okay player getting 1 fat contract. The true stars in this league are always striving to get better.

You don't see Kobe taking it easy just cause he has 5 rings. You didn't see Michael taking it easy. You don't see Dwight taking it easy. You don't see LeBron, Durant, Westbrook, CP3, etc.


7. You clearly don't like Bynum and your are biased when it comes to him. I really don't feel strongly either way, but he is the second best center when healthy

I clearly don't like Bynum? You're damn right I don't. I hate it when I see such a young talent piss away his God given ability by being such a dumbass.

That being said, his raw numbers might make it look like he's the 2nd best Center, but let me put it this way...there are a handful of Centers I would take over him.

Are you saying it's impossible for a player's off court/on court issues to detract from his overall value?

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 04:13 PM
Lopez is a decent offensive rebounder too. Big reason the Nets are very effective on the offensive boards....

ManRam made a great point before, guys like Gasol/Ibaka/Griffin don't get knocked for their rebounding at all and they average 8 boards a game. I really think it's fair to say that without Reggie Evans on the court that Lopez would be averaging at least 8, instead of the 7 he does.

Ibaka in 31 mpg gets 7.7 Lopez in 30.5 mpg gets 6.9. That translates to 8.9 per 36 for Ibaka and 8.2 per 36 for Lopez.

Ibaka has consistently been a 10+ rebounder per 36.

Blake Griffin is a monster rebounder....a far better rebounder than Lopez.

Gasol is the one that people choose to ignore.

I Rock Shaqs
04-28-2013, 04:27 PM
Any thread at all that involves lists will turn into a big argument thread anyways.

Chronz
04-28-2013, 04:35 PM
Bargnani should have never been mentioned in the same breath as this dude

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 04:41 PM
Bargnani should have never been mentioned in the same breath as this dude

Yet you'd be shocked at how many Nets fans who dislike Lopez say he's basically Bargnangi who shoots perimeter shots.

ManRam
04-28-2013, 04:44 PM
Ibaka in 31 mpg gets 7.7 Lopez in 30.5 mpg gets 6.9. That translates to 8.9 per 36 for Ibaka and 8.2 per 36 for Lopez.

Ibaka has consistently been a 10+ rebounder per 36.

Blake Griffin is a monster rebounder....a far better rebounder than Lopez.

Gasol is the one that people choose to ignore.

i made my comment with this knowledge known. i was just talking about perception. he's not as good of a rebounder as those guys...but he's perceived as being something so incredibly more putrid than what he is.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 04:45 PM
i made my comment with this knowledge known. i was just talking about perception. he's not as good of a rebounder as those guys...but he's perceived as being something so incredibly more putrid than what he is.

yes.

b@llhog24
04-28-2013, 04:53 PM
Lopez vs Dwight comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=howardw01&y1=2011&p2=lopezbr01&y2=2013

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 04:57 PM
Lopez vs Dwight comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=howardw01&y1=2011&p2=lopezbr01&y2=2013

What is the point of this? Dwight is the best big in the NBA.

b@llhog24
04-28-2013, 05:06 PM
What is the point of this? Dwight is the best big in the NBA.

To compare players. You don't see the "player comparison" label to the top?

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 05:25 PM
To compare players. You don't see the "player comparison" label to the top?

I do, but I just didn't get what the point of comparing the two were. I think everybody knows Dwight is head and shoulders better

b@llhog24
04-28-2013, 05:41 PM
I do, but I just didn't get what the point of comparing the two were. I think everybody knows Dwight is head and shoulders better

In terms of offensive metrics? No. That's the point.

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 05:46 PM
In terms of offensive metrics? No. That's the point.

No not offensively but overall, and okay I get the point in posting that now.

b@llhog24
04-28-2013, 06:18 PM
No not offensively but overall, and okay I get the point in posting that now.

If you think stats encapsulate total value, then you need to seriously reevaluate how you analyze the game.

waveycrockett
04-28-2013, 09:00 PM
Lopez vs Dwight comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=howardw01&y1=2011&p2=lopezbr01&y2=2013

lmao I could plug in some head to head comparisons that would rock your world

b@llhog24
04-28-2013, 09:09 PM
lmao I could plug in some head to head comparisons that would rock your world

Your point being?

Hawkeye15
04-28-2013, 09:15 PM
lmao I could plug in some head to head comparisons that would rock your world

h2h means what again?

krisxsong
04-28-2013, 09:55 PM
In the history of basketball, there has never been a player whose job was to "let his teammates grab rebounds". Reggie has to box his man out as well and no matter how you cut it, a 7 footer should average way more than 6.9 rebounds per game

Really? Reggie Evans has to box his man out as well?

Why does Brook Lopez box his man out 60% of the time, Evans only 20?

waveycrockett
04-28-2013, 11:04 PM
Your point being?

lmao you made yourself look foolish posting that. With Lopez's per 36 minutes stats having Dwight beat in Points, Blocks, Turnovers and FT%.

b@llhog24
04-28-2013, 11:17 PM
lmao you made yourself look foolish posting that. With Lopez's per 36 minutes stats having Dwight beat in Points, Blocks, Turnovers and FT%.

Coming from you, means literally nothing to me.

krisxsong
04-29-2013, 01:24 AM
If you think stats encapsulate total value, then you need to seriously reevaluate how you analyze the game.

Stats play a big role and you act like I've never seen Dwight Howard play.

LAcowBOMBER
04-29-2013, 03:23 AM
Can you tell me the last time a player who becoming a FA said after a tough playoff game, "I don't care where I play, I'll play anywhere." I'm not saying he only has to play in LA, I don't know why you think that. My point is, his maturity is so lacking that he doesn't have the sense to think that maybe he should just say "When the time comes I'll figure it out" or "That's for another day, right now I'm focused on this team".


It shows that he doesn't think before he acts, or really doesn't think at all. He has no idea what perception is and if I had to guess I would say he grew up without parental figures because that's how he acts. People that grow up without parental figures are usually immature, look for attention, and they don't know how to make decisions for their future.

NO I'm not saying ALL kids without parental figures in their lifetime are like this of course not, but the majority from what I've seen are.



Okay. How many of them throw a hissy fit on the court when they don't get the ball? I don't see Lopez doing this. I don't see Gasol doing this. Horford? Noah?

The only other player that does this is Demarcus Cousins and he's just as, if not more immature than Andrew Bynum.



Okay. What does it mean? What does it mean when he physically takes a cheap shot at an unsuspecting, much smaller player? It's because he hates losing, and he's big fat sore loser at that.



It doesn't matter if Brown is an idiot. So if Mike Brown were smart then Bynum doesn't get a pass? I'm trying really hard not to attack you, but when did I say this instance takes away from the team?

I said all these instances show that the extra drama he creates takes away from his production. How so? ALL of these instances show that he lacks mental thoughness, maturity, a team first mentality, and the true desire to win over anything else.

Do you not know what happened the last time Kobe ragged on somebody publicly? He lost his chance to win 4, 5, 6, maybe even 7 straight rings.



Why are you going off subject? Him being a bad person has nothing to do with what we're talking about. All of these instances combined show you how much he lacks mentally. Sure physically the guys monster but he's essentially a 10 year old kid trapped inside a 23 year old body.

I've honestly met countless 10 year olds who are far more mature than that baby Andrew Bynum.

Him firing Kareem shows that he doesn't have motivation. Once he got the slightest taste of success he stopped working because it was good enough to him. Why was it good enough to him? Because to so many players, they would rather be lazy while being an okay player getting 1 fat contract. The true stars in this league are always striving to get better.

You don't see Kobe taking it easy just cause he has 5 rings. You didn't see Michael taking it easy. You don't see Dwight taking it easy. You don't see LeBron, Durant, Westbrook, CP3, etc.



I clearly don't like Bynum? You're damn right I don't. I hate it when I see such a young talent piss away his God given ability by being such a dumbass.

That being said, his raw numbers might make it look like he's the 2nd best Center, but let me put it this way...there are a handful of Centers I would take over him.

Are you saying it's impossible for a player's off court/on court issues to detract from his overall value?

I am saying you are greatly overblowing these problems.

The last time Kobe publicly criticized a player is this year when he did it to Dwight and Gasol

If you think Bynum's behavior took away from the team in some way you are wrong. He had a few problems in LA, but he did fine there and helped the team a lot. There were many Laker fans that didn't even want to give up Bynum for Dwight.

If you think a healthy Bynum does not make a bigger impact than Brook Lopez, you are wrong. Honestly, if he was playing 82 games a year on a regular basis you could almost argue he is the best Center in the league, but unfortunately for him it doesn't seem like he will ever be that healthy.

krisxsong
04-29-2013, 04:04 AM
I am saying you are greatly overblowing these problems.

The last time Kobe publicly criticized a player is this year when he did it to Dwight and Gasol

If you think Bynum's behavior took away from the team in some way you are wrong. He had a few problems in LA, but he did fine there and helped the team a lot. There were many Laker fans that didn't even want to give up Bynum for Dwight.

If you think a healthy Bynum does not make a bigger impact than Brook Lopez, you are wrong. Honestly, if he was playing 82 games a year on a regular basis you could almost argue he is the best Center in the league, but unfortunately for him it doesn't seem like he will ever be that healthy.

Sigh

1) Explain to me how I am overreacting to it. How does it NOT take away from what he brings to the team? I already stated how he negatively affects his value. He distances himself from the team(not going into huddles), doesn't take well to authority(skipping one on one meetings), can't take a tough loss(JJ Barea), and really doesn't care about anybody but himself and his money(Doesn't care where or who he plays with as long as he gets $$).

2) Eh not really. The last time he really did it was to Shaq.

3) How am I wrong? You keep saying I'm wrong but I want you to explain it to me.

4) I already said one of the reasons I don't put Bynum higher is because he's insanely injury prone. Never had a healthy season. Also, explain to me how you think he's better than a healthy Dwight?

And almost all of my friends are Lakers fans. I live in Socal, been since 2001 and I will tell you any of them that had a brain would trade him for Dwight EASILY because of his insane immaturity. Why do you think Lakers fans were soooo happy that they got Dwight? It wasn't because they wanted to keep Bynum.

If Bynum didn't act like a 5 year old kid and stayed healthy sure I have no issue putting him 2nd but it doesn't seem like he'll ever get over two humps.

b@llhog24
04-29-2013, 08:00 AM
Stats play a big role and you act like I've never seen Dwight Howard play.

Likewise.

waveycrockett
04-29-2013, 10:44 PM
A guy who this summer had haters say he was OVERPAID, for years had critics say he put up "inflated" stats on a bad team, NOT a top-5 Center, and was "soft". He's making those same people look really foolish. He is playing out of his mind this post season against the TOUGHEST front court in the NBA and is averaging:

23.6pts/3.4 BLKS/8 REBS/91.7 FT%/1003P%/49.4FG%

and came up absolutely HUGE tonight in the Nets elimination game.

:clap::clap::clap:

sep11ie
04-29-2013, 10:48 PM
lol, 100% from 3

Guppyfighter
04-29-2013, 10:49 PM
You are right that people said he was overpaid, me included. He has been very good this year and well worth it. It's the rest of the team that's overpaid.

justinnum1
04-29-2013, 10:51 PM
he's ok

waveycrockett
04-29-2013, 10:52 PM
You are right that people said he was overpaid, me included. He has been very good this year and well worth it. It's the rest of the team that's overpaid.

Dont kid yourself like Deron Williams isn't a Max player. Not even 100% he has been a monster since his ankle procedure

waveycrockett
04-29-2013, 10:52 PM
he's ok

He's no birdman lol ;)

justinnum1
04-29-2013, 10:53 PM
He's no birdman lol ;)

birdman birdman!

Cubby
04-29-2013, 10:54 PM
I'm not saying he's not good, but we aren't the best front court in the NBA with Noah playing on one foot and Boozer being insanely inconsistent on defense. It was a given that he would play well.

waveycrockett
04-29-2013, 10:56 PM
I'm not saying he's not good, but we aren't the best front court in the NBA with Noah playing on one foot and Boozer being insanely inconsistent on defense. It was a given that he would play well.
I keep hearing Noah playing on one foot this series but getting all the praise for games 2 and 3. Obviously Noah is not 100% but he's been pretty damn effective.

BigBlueCrew
04-29-2013, 10:56 PM
Nice way to put up the stats you like

100% 3p%?

waveycrockett
04-29-2013, 10:57 PM
Nice way to put up the stats you like

100% 3p%?

Yeah he's 1 for 1 from 3. Is that not 100%?

BigBlueCrew
04-29-2013, 11:03 PM
Yeah he's 1 for 1 from 3. Is that not 100%?

There is a qualifier baseline to be able to use that percentage.

raiderposting
04-29-2013, 11:08 PM
Still going to lose to a roseless bulls lol.

raiderposting
04-29-2013, 11:09 PM
Dont kid yourself like Deron Williams isn't a Max player. Not even 100% he has been a monster since his ankle procedure

Nate fuked him up

ball4reel
04-29-2013, 11:11 PM
birdman birdman!

lol lol

SportsFanatic10
04-29-2013, 11:18 PM
I'm not saying he's not good, but we aren't the best front court in the NBA with Noah playing on one foot and Boozer being insanely inconsistent on defense. It was a given that he would play well.

ya i'd say the grizz have the toughest front court. the bulls are right up there though. lopez has played well, but yeah noah's definitely banged up.

DumDum
04-29-2013, 11:32 PM
I don't think he's proving anyone wrong. He has some the best foot work in the game today but his D and Rebounding isn't much better then last year but he did improve. The nets should trade for his brother to do the dirty work for him

Cubby
04-29-2013, 11:33 PM
I keep hearing Noah playing on one foot this series but getting all the praise for games 2 and 3. Obviously Noah is not 100% but he's been pretty damn effective.

That's basically all energy. His offensive game has been significantly worse as has been his mid range game. His rebounding has been, let's say, inconsistent to say the least against a mediocre rebounder in Brook. And his defense hasn't been as good aside from some key blocks. Noah's bread and butter is help defense, but guys like Joe Johnson and Deron Williams have been getting good shots in the paint quite a bit.

I'm not discounting Brook as a player because he's a damn good offensive threat, but his performance thus far was to be expected.

Swashcuff
04-29-2013, 11:35 PM
As long as DoMeFavors is posting on PSD there'll always be posters who won't have many fond things to say of Lopez.

Cubby
04-29-2013, 11:37 PM
ya i'd say the grizz have the toughest front court. the bulls are right up there though. lopez has played well, but yeah noah's definitely banged up.

In Boozer's defense, he has taken some strides to becoming a better defender, but his inconsistencies are still pretty glaring at times. Plus, he's been awesome offensively thus far (for all the people who say he disappears in the playoffs). I wish we'd go to him more. You see what happens when Nate comes in: he doesn't get the hot hand the ball. That's where the Bulls miss Kirk because the offensive flow is pretty much lost for a team that struggles to score anyway and Nate is bad defensively.

Swashcuff
04-29-2013, 11:37 PM
best footwork? pfffffft! guys takes long steps which dont end up anywhere. the only move he has is the dropstep and he always runs into the double team with it. He pts are from nice passes from williams. Lopez is a *****

Whose dupe are you?

DumDum
04-29-2013, 11:40 PM
best footwork? pfffffft! guys takes long steps which dont end up anywhere. the only move he has is the dropstep and he always runs into the double team with it. He pts are from nice passes from williams. Lopez is a *****

name three guys with better post footwork

b@llhog24
04-29-2013, 11:40 PM
He iight.

Kashmir13579
04-29-2013, 11:41 PM
A guy who this summer had haters say he was OVERPAID, for years had critics say he put up "inflated" stats on a bad team, NOT a top-5 Center, and was "soft". He's making those same people look really foolish. He is playing out of his mind this post season against the TOUGHEST front court in the NBA and is averaging:

23.6pts/3.4 BLKS/8 REBS/91.7 FT%/1003P%/49.4FG%

and came up absolutely HUGE tonight in the Nets elimination game.

:clap::clap::clap: Who said Brook didn't have a great year anyway?

DumDum
04-29-2013, 11:45 PM
Bynum. Big Mark. Al Jefferson. Duncan. Hibbert. Bogut. Cousins. Lamarcus. just to name a few. Brook Lopez is terrible still. if he couldnt hit a jumper, guy would just another 7 foot guy in society.

:speechless:

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
04-29-2013, 11:51 PM
Yet nets are still getting knocked out of the first round, so who cares right?

sep11ie
04-29-2013, 11:53 PM
Is Domefavors still gonna quit PSD if the Bulls win???

waveycrockett
04-29-2013, 11:54 PM
Yet nets are still getting knocked out of the first round, so who cares right?
Someone is salty his team passed on Brook lol

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
04-30-2013, 12:03 AM
ill take vucevic for under 2 mill over Lopez for 15 mill a year anyday on a rebuilding team... vuc actually get rebounds

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
04-30-2013, 12:09 AM
No joke though .. a maxed out dwill, a 60 mill Lopez and an overpaid Joe johnson not to mention gforce and the nets are gonna lose in the first round to a roseless bulls team with a one legged Noah...

I'd be butt hurt too if i was u wavey lmao

sep11ie
04-30-2013, 12:10 AM
Too bad Brook went to the Andrea Bargnani school of rebounding.

Rick Rude
04-30-2013, 12:50 AM
Brook Lopez: proving haters wrong.....


Once every 3 game...

akesh99
04-30-2013, 01:06 AM
Jeez who gives a **** about the Nets or Brook?

KniCks4LiFe
04-30-2013, 01:57 AM
birdman birdman!

I want to punch Shaq every time he yells that :laugh2:

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 02:48 AM
No joke though .. a maxed out dwill, a 60 mill Lopez and an overpaid Joe johnson not to mention gforce and the nets are gonna lose in the first round to a roseless bulls team with a one legged Noah...

I'd be butt hurt too if i was u wavey lmao

You are forgetting a big, big aspect when comparing the two teams. Coaching.

The difference in coaching in this game is really on a Reggie Evans and Tim Duncan type of difference. PJ might not even be good enough to be the Reggie Evans of coaching cause at least Evans does one thing well.

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 03:31 AM
Bynum. Big Mark. Al Jefferson. Duncan. Hibbert. Bogut. Cousins. Lamarcus. just to name a few. Brook Lopez is terrible still. if he couldnt hit a jumper, guy would just another 7 foot guy in society.

Heres another case of a guy who sees a player play once or twice a year and makes ridiculous claims.

He averages 1.4 shots per game from 3-9 feet, and 2.8 shots from 13-23 feet. 6.8 shots at the rim.

LOL Cousins, Aldridge, Hibbert, Jefferson, and Bogut are not better and Bynum's off court issues and health detract from his value.

stawka
04-30-2013, 03:38 AM
Today was the first time I've ever watched Brooke play, damn I was impressed. I know he's inconsistent, but if today was an average game for him, the man would be a beast. He's such a big unit, plays smart, very polished offensively, but he's a *****

A hell of a lot of potential though, especially with that body

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 03:55 AM
Today was the first time I've ever watched Brooke play, damn I was impressed. I know he's inconsistent, but if today was an average game for him, the man would be a beast. He's such a big unit, plays smart, very polished offensively, but he's a *****

A hell of a lot of potential though, especially with that body

I don't get where people call him inconsistent and inefficient. I'm not calling you out cause you said this is the first time you've ever seen him play.

The dude puts up 19.4 and 6.9 with 2.1 blocks in the regular season getting 30 mpg, with a TS% of .567.

Per 36 min that's 23-8.2 and 2.5 blocks per game.

Right now in the playoffs he's putting up 22.5-7.5 and 4.3 blocks per game with a TS% of .575.

People act like he's never played like he's doing in the playoffs right now. He just did over a whole season yet people neglect it because they see him as goofy and they see 6.9 rebounds and thinks "Oh he sucks", yet he grabs rebounds at the same rate as guys like Gasol and Griffin yet people give them passes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4472/gamelog

Looking at the game log I don't get why people say he's inconsistent.

Again I'm not calling you out cause you admitted this was the first time you saw him play...although I should advise you to watch someone play before you label them inconsistent.

Guppyfighter
04-30-2013, 06:16 AM
I like Brook Lopez, but most people are soured on him because of domefavors.

Lopez had to win me over. I didn't like him that much to start the season.

TheLegend
04-30-2013, 09:11 AM
He's gotten better in my eyes. A better defensive player than I originally gave credit for, but still a sub-par rebounder. He's not in my top-5 though.

In no particular order I have Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, Al Horford, and Tyson Chandler in my top-5. Omer Asik's also right there with Chandler. And if you count Duncan/Garnett/Bosh as centers (which they all were this year), then Lopez drops behind Duncan and Bosh for sure.

And if Varejao stayed healthy all year and maintained his production, he'd be another guy I'd slot higher than Brook Lopez. If Bogut and Bynum were ever healthy, they'd potentially both be ahead of him too. Don't forget about Pekovic who's having a great season too. I definitely have Gortat/Hibbert/Monroe behind him.


I think it's silly when people say there are no centers in this league. Because there are A LOT. And a lot of good ones. Just not the offensive powerhouse types that spoiled us in the 80s/90s. In this single post I mentioned 16 centers.

If Lopez was the Chicago bulls center he would be a top 5 center in ur eyes, and I absolutely doubt you grade varejao over him. Lopez is a legitimate center in this league and clearly one of the better ones IMO. His major problem is he don't rebound like he should. But in this nets/bulls series, he's clearly the best player in the series. Easily better than boozer and Deng so if you want to rank him so low then Deng and boozer are average at best.

ManningToTyree
04-30-2013, 09:57 AM
I think this is his peak which is nothing to complain about. He is an elite offensive player and an average rebounder and defender. If he can increase his rebounding then he could be elite but for now he is in the top 5 centers conversation. I cant see his defense getting any better just because he is very slow footed.

b@llhog24
04-30-2013, 11:51 AM
I like Brook Lopez, but most people are soured on him because of domefavors.

Lopez had to win me over. I didn't like him that much to start the season.

Throw wavey in there too. The guy has a PER north of 27 and he's not gonna get recognition because of these two trolls. (Although DMF is the shiznits).

Blitzbolt
04-30-2013, 12:59 PM
On the rebound issue Marc Gasol gets 8 a game but ZBO is TOP 3 in rebounds so he steals them from him.Last year when ZBO was out MGasol average 10 a game.

So its hard to rebound when you have a rebounding team around you its like Howard who played without Pau Gasol for half the season.

waveycrockett
04-30-2013, 01:05 PM
On the rebound issue Marc Gasol gets 8 a game but ZBO is TOP 3 in rebounds so he steals them from him.Last year when ZBO was out MGasol average 10 a game.

So its hard to rebound when you have a rebounding team around you its like Howard who played without Pau Gasol for half the season.

And Reggie Evans does the same thing to Lopez whats your point

KnickaBocka.44
04-30-2013, 01:23 PM
Defensively? He is milesss better defensively in the post than Bargs. Bargs gets posted up by Small Forwards.

Reading comprehension man, so much gets lost on you. I said before this season. Up until this season Lopez had been one of the worst defensive centers in the league.

Greet
04-30-2013, 01:28 PM
I think this is his peak which is nothing to complain about. He is an elite offensive player and an average rebounder and defender. If he can increase his rebounding then he could be elite but for now he is in the top 5 centers conversation. I cant see his defense getting any better just because he is very slow footed.

His peak??? He just turned 25......

KnickaBocka.44
04-30-2013, 01:39 PM
A guy who this summer had haters say he was OVERPAID, for years had critics say he put up "inflated" stats on a bad team, NOT a top-5 Center, and was "soft". He's making those same people look really foolish. He is playing out of his mind this post season against the TOUGHEST front court in the NBA and is averaging:

23.6pts/3.4 BLKS/8 REBS/91.7 FT%/1003P%/49.4FG%

and came up absolutely HUGE tonight in the Nets elimination game.

:clap::clap::clap:

The experts on NBArank still didn't vote him as a top 5 C, they had him at 7 I think.

KnickaBocka.44
04-30-2013, 01:44 PM
Really? Reggie Evans has to box his man out as well?

Why does Brook Lopez box his man out 60% of the time, Evans only 20?

Where did you get this stat?

Sly Guy
04-30-2013, 01:59 PM
my center's gotta be a defensive anchor, covering up for mistakes and calling out things perimeter defenders may not see. As a result, to be a great center, you need a better set of defensive skills than Lopez has.

Conversely, when it comes to point guards, I want the most well rounded set of offensive tools as they are the ones running the show on that side of the floor, and defense is secondary for that position.

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 05:04 PM
Where did you get this stat?

http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/

Also, Brook Lopez leads the playoffs in Block% and OffReb%, so there's that too.

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 05:05 PM
my center's gotta be a defensive anchor, covering up for mistakes and calling out things perimeter defenders may not see. As a result, to be a great center, you need a better set of defensive skills than Lopez has.

Conversely, when it comes to point guards, I want the most well rounded set of offensive tools as they are the ones running the show on that side of the floor, and defense is secondary for that position.

It all depends on the rest of your personnel no?

What if you have Rondo, Butler, Shumpert, Ibaka as your 1-4? You still want a defensive guy who can't play on offense? Or would you rather have an offensive beast who can play some man to man defense and great weak side help defense?

Conversely, if you have something like Stephen Curry, Kyrie Irving, Carmelo Anthony, Zach Randolph, then yes you want a defensive anchor at Center.

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 05:10 PM
my center's gotta be a defensive anchor, covering up for mistakes and calling out things perimeter defenders may not see.
As a result, to be a great center, you need a better set of defensive skills than Lopez has.

Conversely, when it comes to point guards, I want the most well rounded set of offensive tools as they are the ones running the show on that side of the floor, and defense is secondary for that position.

Wrong. Do you mean to tell me if Shaq was an average defensive Center that he wouldn't be great anymore? That's ridiculous.

jersey89
04-30-2013, 06:16 PM
I think his value really depends on the team around him. If you have a potent lineup and would rather have a center focused on defense and rebounds you take Dwight or a guy like Chandler. But if you need offensive production from your 5 hes a perfect fit. Overall I think he is definitely a top 5 center but that may just be my net fan bias.

Tony_Starks
04-30-2013, 06:35 PM
I want my 5 to be tough, play D, and rebound. Lopez has nice touch around the basket but he's too soft. Still take Howard, Gasol, Chandler, and Noah (if you consider him a center) over Brook any day with no hesitation....

KnickaBocka.44
04-30-2013, 07:43 PM
http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/

Also, Brook Lopez leads the playoffs in Block% and OffReb%, so there's that too.


Fair enough. But couldn't it just be that Lopez is a more fundamentally sound player and that is why he boxes out more than Evans instead of taking these numbers and assuming that it is part of a bigger scheme?

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 10:33 PM
I want my 5 to be tough, play D, and rebound. Lopez has nice touch around the basket but he's too soft. Still take Howard, Gasol, Chandler, and Noah (if you consider him a center) over Brook any day with no hesitation....

What is being soft? Where is cutoff mark?

How in the world would anybody not consider Noah a Center? That's the only position he's ever played...

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 10:37 PM
Fair enough. But couldn't it just be that Lopez is a more fundamentally sound player and that is why he boxes out more than Evans instead of taking these numbers and assuming that it is part of a bigger scheme?

Lopez is indeed more fundamentally sound, but are you telling me Lopez boxing out and Evans not doing has no effect on his low rebounding numbers?

If you watch Lopez play, you see he does 1 thing very well and 1 thing very poorly when it comes to rebounding.

The bad thing is that he focuses so much on trying to find his man when the shot goes up that he doesn't have the ability to react to shots off the rim/backboard in time to get the rebound. That's his main rebounding downfall.

The good thing he does is finding his man and boxing him out. He's so massive and strong enough that when he finds you, you're basically done and he also just takes up so much space. He reallyknows how to use his massive body. That's the good thing.

If he and Evans switched their roles, I'd say Lopez averages like 9 rebounds.

Oh and to whoever said Marc Gasol gets a pass cause he plays with Zach Randolph, do you not know who Reggie Evans is? Reggie Evans obliterated Dennis Rodman's single season DREB% this season.

Also another case that can be made for Lopez being a better rebounder than given credit for is the fact that Brooklyn is one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA and Lopez leads the playoffs on OFFReb%

Iggz53
04-30-2013, 10:44 PM
http://thebrooklyngame.com/why-brook-lopezs-inability-to-rebound-is-the-reason-reggie-evans-can-grab-boards/

Also, Brook Lopez leads the playoffs in Block% and OffReb%, so there's that too.

3 game sample size, totally subjective, and Lopez has always been a poor rebounder, while Evans has made a career out of rebounding, before playing together this year. I don't buy that it's deliberate for one second.

waveycrockett
04-30-2013, 10:46 PM
The experts on NBArank still didn't vote him as a top 5 C, they had him at 7 I think.

Lmao the "experts" on NBArank. How about former NBA MVP in Shaq who said he was a top-3 NBA center and same for Charles Barkley. No the guys on NBArank said it so it must be true!! lol

How about ESPN analysts ranked the top-100 players at the end of the season he came in at like 27. Which was EASILY top-5 for NBA centers. NBArank? lol

waveycrockett
04-30-2013, 10:47 PM
I want my 5 to be tough, play D, and rebound. Lopez has nice touch around the basket but he's too soft. Still take Howard, Gasol, Chandler, and Noah (if you consider him a center) over Brook any day with no hesitation....

Someone obviously hasn't watched this series at all. Guys who are soft dont get 7 blocks in a game.

krisxsong
04-30-2013, 11:31 PM
3 game sample size, totally subjective, and Lopez has always been a poor rebounder, while Evans has made a career out of rebounding, before playing together this year. I don't buy that it's deliberate for one second.

Soooo in other words Lopez just simply forgot how to rebound at at least a 8RPG rate huh?

Yes it';s a 3 game sample size but so what? There's no such thing as being "off" when boxing out. This isn't like a shooting example where anybody can be off for a 3 game stretch.

You can't be "off" while trying to box out