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View Full Version : How the Timberwolves Screwed 2009 Up



Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 07:10 PM
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/59362/you-realize-how-badly-the-t-wolves-screwed-up-the-2009-draft-right

Htownballa1622
04-23-2013, 07:24 PM
Ouch.

That's putting it lightly.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2013, 07:26 PM
This never occurred to me...

ghettosean
04-23-2013, 07:44 PM
Damn that was a good article and yes Minny fugged up pretty badly when you look at all the talent in the draft though i'm sure everyone wishes they picked Curry and Lawson earlier. Never thought they had such a huge chance to turn there franchise around.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2013, 07:49 PM
They landed Rubio, the rest was crap. I am pretty sure a detailed article could be written about well over half the league on how bad they **** the bed in a draft.

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 07:52 PM
They landed Rubio, the rest was crap. I am pretty sure a detailed article could be written about well over half the league on how bad they **** the bed in a draft.

It wasn't just about the draft.

NoahH
04-23-2013, 07:52 PM
Every team that passed on Curry has been mentioned before as effing up the 2009 draft.

Hindsight is 20/20

nycericanguy
04-23-2013, 07:56 PM
I mean I knew Kahn hasnt been a good drafter, but I had no idea he had Motiejunas, Parsons, and Mirotic and moved them all for basically nothing...wow...just wow...

And the Flynn thing still boggles my mind, EVERYONE wanted Curry, the kid could play, few were high on Flynn...and MIN already had Rubio anyway...

Kahn always came across as a guy that tried too hard to outsmart everyone or go against the grain. It's amazing the kind of team MIN could have right now. And I don't mean if everything went right, just if Kahn hadn't effed up so much.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2013, 07:56 PM
It wasn't just about the draft.

as I said, um, I am pretty damn sure I have read this story.......and commented on it 10000 times, before the story came out.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2013, 07:57 PM
I mean I knew Kahn hasnt been a good drafter, but I had no idea he had Motiejunas, Parsons, and Mirotic and moved them all for basically nothing...wow...just wow...

And the Flynn thing still boggles my mind, EVERYONE wanted Curry, the kid could play, few were high on Flynn...and MIN already had Rubio anyway...

Kahn always came across as a guy that tried too hard to outsmart everyone or go against the grain.

Kahn is the worst drafter I can think of, without putting too much thought into it.

Blink
04-23-2013, 08:07 PM
So what? Every team has passed on a guy in a draft.

Coming from a Pistons fan it does get annoying hearing the Darko thing time and time again. Yes it was bad oh well.

Minnesota shouldve never had Lawson. We took Austin Daye over him lol

Chronz
04-23-2013, 08:37 PM
Every team that passed on Curry has been mentioned before as effing up the 2009 draft.

Hindsight is 20/20

Yea but they chose 3 PG and wound up trading the best one to a team that was more savvy and knew how to project his greatness.

John Walls Era
04-23-2013, 09:11 PM
news to me. I thought they were dominating.

Riodagoat
04-23-2013, 09:11 PM
If I were a Wolves fan, I'd be so depressed after reading this.

John Walls Era
04-23-2013, 09:18 PM
I just read it... no wonder they suck. They got the worst of the 3 pgs and then they got screwed over again and again by other teams.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2013, 09:19 PM
Yea but they chose 3 PG and wound up trading the best one to a team that was more savvy and knew how to project his greatness.

Would you take Lawson over Rubio for the next 6 years?

ThunderousDemon
04-23-2013, 09:23 PM
Kaaahn!!

JasonJohnHorn
04-23-2013, 09:27 PM
Yeah... this was bad, but this is also overkill. Everybody knows how bad that was. Even that day when they drafted Flynn over Curry.... people were rolling their eyes.

We get it, that guy is an idiot for drafting three points in one draft. Let's move on. Hawkeye says, a story like this could be written about EVERY team in the league....


Trust me, as a Raptors fan, we could have had a front court featuring Granger, Bosh and Hibbert... and still would have been able to trade away a 1st overall pick for quality vet.


There are teams who are just as bad. Save the Spurs, there are few teams who have royally fawked up a draft in the last 20 years.

topdog
04-23-2013, 09:33 PM
Meh, Kahn should've taken Derozan at the time instead of Flynn. The reality for me is that I was happy that we finally had a GM who coveted a player and went all in to get him - Rubio that is. Kevin McHale never eeeeever did that.

Funny how that draft was labeled "weak" by so many many people at the time. And, yes, Kahn gave up some assets in 2011, but: 1. the money he gathered was used to buyout Kurt Rambis (another Kahn mistake... but who exactly was it that was lining up to coach the KG-less Wolves?) 2. Montiejunas was sending signals he would not come over if he did not have the potential to start and 3. if we are going to assume all things are equal with Lawson (starter minutes) and Curry (healed ankle issues) then we certainly should not assume that the Memphis pick is destined to be worthless.

mngopher35
04-23-2013, 09:40 PM
Minnesota fans knew this. Khan has been pretty horrible at drafting players. The only thing he got right that year was trading foye and mike miller for what turned out to be rubio.

kobe4thewinbang
04-23-2013, 10:00 PM
LOL, damn. Their GM must be a trade addict without any regard to quality. Every player they traded away was much better than what they got back only to trade those players too for even worse. LOL. Do they stiill have this GM?

Baller1
04-23-2013, 10:02 PM
Dear god, that's depressing. Pulled a mid-2000's Supersonics.

naps
04-23-2013, 10:09 PM
Question is how does this idiot still have a job? I mean their must be something secret between the owner and Kahn.

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 10:09 PM
The Timberwolves ****ed over the New York Knicks AND Jonny Flynn in the 2009 draft.

Sota4Ever
04-23-2013, 10:22 PM
How did we **** anyone over?

John Walls Era
04-23-2013, 10:23 PM
Would you take Lawson over Rubio for the next 6 years?

Rubio has digressed. Talk about a disappointment. He still makes a couple decent highlights a game, but nothing saying he will be elite like all the bandwagoners were saying before. Maybe 8 and 10 guy at best.

Sota4Ever
04-23-2013, 10:28 PM
8 and 10 guy that is it? Are you kidding me.

John Walls Era
04-23-2013, 10:42 PM
10 assists is pretty good. 8 and 10 if Minni is winning. More pts if theyre still this bad.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2013, 10:46 PM
Rubio has digressed. Talk about a disappointment. He still makes a couple decent highlights a game, but nothing saying he will be elite like all the bandwagoners were saying before. Maybe 8 and 10 guy at best.

absolutely no offense, but you have crapped on Rubio since he was in Europe. I honestly don't care about your opinion on that question I asked Chronz.

king4day
04-23-2013, 10:52 PM
They act like Lawson was so highly touted. If I recall correctly, the ENTIRE LOTTERY passed on him.
Like Hibbert, he just turned out really good. If they picked Lawson with a top 5 or 6 pick, they woulda been laughed at at the time.

king4day
04-23-2013, 10:54 PM
Rubio has digressed. Talk about a disappointment. He still makes a couple decent highlights a game, but nothing saying he will be elite like all the bandwagoners were saying before. Maybe 8 and 10 guy at best.

I'd give him one more year. He was coming off the torn ACL so it's a bit unfair to write him off just yet.

Hellcrooner
04-23-2013, 11:00 PM
Would you take Lawson over Rubio for the next 6 years?

not ot mention, how bout picking Currys KNEES for the next 6 years?

Dade County
04-23-2013, 11:02 PM
OK,

What Timberwolves need to do 1st, is put out a hit on Bill Simmons... You just can't go around openly disrespecting people like this ...lmao

2nd, It's time for the league to think about contraction seriously.

3rd, Minny fans most feel like ... :bang:

Sota4Ever
04-23-2013, 11:44 PM
OK,

What Timberwolves need to do 1st, is put out a hit on Bill Simmons... You just can't go around openly disrespecting people like this ...lmao

2nd, It's time for the league to think about contraction seriously.

3rd, Minny fans most feel like ... :bang:

Do you know why Bill Simmons hates Minnesota and somewhat has a vendetta against Kahn specifically?

Minny fans don't care about the 2009 draft anymore. It is over and done with. All of this would have been forgotten had we been healthy this season and been in the playoffs.

Lastly it is time PSD started thinking about contraction of certain posters.

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 11:54 PM
not ot mention, how bout picking Currys KNEES for the next 6 years?

Curry's knees are totally fine.

Ebbs
04-24-2013, 12:58 AM
:laugh:

John Walls Era
04-24-2013, 02:16 AM
absolutely no offense, but you have crapped on Rubio since he was in Europe. I honestly don't care about your opinion on that question I asked Chronz.

Seems like a lot of offense, but none taken. Not my fault if I'm objective. I can hate players, but if they're good, I give them their due (Gasol, Gasol, Varejao). I'm not going to beat around the bush.


not ot mention, how bout picking Currys KNEES for the next 6 years?

You spelled ankles wrong first of all. And don't you worry about them. They looked fine tonight.


I'd give him one more year. He was coming off the torn ACL so it's a bit unfair to write him off just yet.

He was overrated since his teens. But of course thats because he played for Barcelona and he was pretty flashy for a SPanish player and fundamentally sound. It even got to the point where people in Europe would bench Jennings just to make him look good. It was a shame. He was ok as a rookie, but not amazing like everyone thought he would be.

Hellcrooner
04-24-2013, 02:53 AM
on other news he jus tfinished second on steals per game.

UKblazers
04-24-2013, 07:47 AM
Rubio will probably be the best defender at the pg position for the next 3-5 years. Offensively though, he's been a huge dissapointment to me. I thought his shooting would improve, additonally for a 6-4 pg he struggles immensely finishing at the rim. In many way Vasquez in New Orleans had a better season on offense. For now Rubio is definitely overrated.

Greet
04-24-2013, 08:41 AM
Would you take Lawson over Rubio for the next 6 years?

I think Lawson as of right now, is much much more proven than Rubio.

Greet
04-24-2013, 08:42 AM
Rubio will probably be the best defender at the pg position for the next 3-5 years. Offensively though, he's been a huge dissapointment to me. I thought his shooting would improve, additonally for a 6-4 pg he struggles immensely finishing at the rim. In many way Vasquez in New Orleans had a better season on offense. For now Rubio is definitely overrated.

Woah, I don't think calling him the best is correct.

Greet
04-24-2013, 08:42 AM
As for the article, another great piece coming from Bill Simmons & Co. Grantland is quickly becoming one of the top sports websites out there. Bill Simmons is a genius. Simple as that.

topdog
04-24-2013, 01:54 PM
Ricky Rubio in 2011-12:

6th in Assists Per Game (8.2)
2nd* in Steals Per Game (2.22)

*Did not qualify due to injury games lost

Ricky Rubio in 2012-13:

10th in Assists Per Game (7.3)
2nd in Steals Per Game (2.4)

So, he regressed, right? Or are we actually going to acknowledge that he had a major injury to end last year, never got to work on his shot this summer (in a meaningful way) and still came back from early struggles and minute restrictions to place top 10 in assists and barely miss out on the steals title?

Greet
04-24-2013, 02:21 PM
^Who knows. He needs another year. KLove being injured also hurt. I still don't think he's ever going to be a top PG in the NBA, while Ty Lawson has a chance.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 02:26 PM
Reserving judgement on Rubio until next year. Hes already surpassed my expectations (Shaun Livingston), but there is no denying keeping Lawson was the right move. Imagine both of them together.......

Bravo95
04-24-2013, 02:48 PM
At least their GM didn't pass on CP3 because he was "too short." :sigh:

rhymeratic
04-24-2013, 02:49 PM
Kahn went ABOVE AND BEYOND to screw his team for years to come. I can't think of anyone outside of Isiah Thomas and Michael Jordan who have done more destruction to a franchise. How this dude still has a job is beyond me!

Sota4Ever
04-24-2013, 03:18 PM
Kahn went ABOVE AND BEYOND to screw his team for years to come. I can't think of anyone outside of Isiah Thomas and Michael Jordan who have done more destruction to a franchise. How this dude still has a job is beyond me!

How did has he cause destruction? This year we were looking at any easy playoff team. And even projected to be a top 5 seed out of the West.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 03:33 PM
Kahn and Isiah Thomas are neck and neck for the worst GM in sports history title!

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 03:38 PM
The Timberwolves ****ed over the New York Knicks AND Jonny Flynn in the 2009 draft.

No the Warriors did, if they didn't draft Stephen Curry, we definitely would of. Dantoni was so in love with him I was afraid he would of sucked his **** at the draft

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 03:38 PM
Would you take Lawson over Rubio for the next 6 years?

Easily

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 03:40 PM
Kahn and Isiah Thomas are neck and neck for the worst GM in sports history title!

The funny thing is, if you took both of their strengths, and made one GM, they would be good.

Kahn: Good at understanding financial flexibility and value of contracts and managing the cap, horrible at evaluating talent.
Thomas: Good talent evaluator, horrible at managing contracts and the cap.

daboywonder2002
04-24-2013, 03:40 PM
dont forget wes johnson over paul george in 2010.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 03:41 PM
Kahn went ABOVE AND BEYOND to screw his team for years to come. I can't think of anyone outside of Isiah Thomas and Michael Jordan who have done more destruction to a franchise. How this dude still has a job is beyond me!

Destruction would be leaving a team with no talent and horrible contracts. Kahn isn't quite at that level.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 03:42 PM
dont forget wes johnson over paul george in 2010.

add Cousins and Monroe to that. Or his 2011 draft, in which he had to pay off Rambis's salary, and just did a fire sale with the 3 first rounders he had...

Drafting is the reason I have pined for Kahn to be gone the last year.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 03:43 PM
The funny thing is, if you took both of their strengths, and made one GM, they would be good.

Kahn: Good at understanding financial flexibility and value of contracts and managing the cap, horrible at evaluating talent.
Thomas: Good talent evaluator, horrible at managing contracts and the cap.

Lol I'd choose Kahn over Isiah easily but both suck. Kahn is killing the Wolves

AI4MVP
04-24-2013, 03:44 PM
Rubio has digressed. Talk about a disappointment. He still makes a couple decent highlights a game, but nothing saying he will be elite like all the bandwagoners were saying before. Maybe 8 and 10 guy at best.

LMFAO at Rubio "digressing". Does anyone actually WATCH the players they talk about? He played just as well, if not better this year than last year. Stats? Adjust for the first few weeks where he was A)Fresh off injury and B)On extremely limited minutes.

AI4MVP
04-24-2013, 03:46 PM
As for Kahn. Yeah it could have been better. But Ricky Rubio, Kevin Love, Nikola Pekovic, AK47. It could be worse and we will be in the playoffs next year if healthy.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 03:47 PM
So the Wolves could of looked like this

PG Rubio
SG Paul George
SF AK-47
PF Kevin Love
C Monroe

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 03:52 PM
Lol I'd choose Kahn over Isiah easily but both suck. Kahn is killing the Wolves

Injuries killed them this year. I will say, giving Love the 4 year, with a 3 year and player option, over giving him a 5 year deal that HE WANTED TO SIGN, just baffled me. I do not understand it at all. And if he is saving it for Rubio, he made a monster mistake on that call.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 03:53 PM
So the Wolves could of looked like this

PG Rubio
SG Paul George
SF AK-47
PF Kevin Love
C Monroe

we can play that game with any team that has been in the lottery often the past 5 years dude.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 04:03 PM
Injuries killed them this year. I will say, giving Love the 4 year, with a 3 year and player option, over giving him a 5 year deal that HE WANTED TO SIGN, just baffled me. I do not understand it at all. And if he is saving it for Rubio, he made a monster mistake on that call.

They would of been a respectable team and probably playoff contenders if it weren't for the injuries. The Love contract is beyond idiotic. You're basically telling Love to leave to either sign with the Lakers or whoever he chooses. And they might end up overpaying Nikoli

colinskik
04-24-2013, 04:08 PM
Me and practically this entire site ripped Kahn after that draft. Not especially not passing on Curry (as a Knicks fan, I wanted Curry bad, and I still can't believe how many teams passed on him) but for drafting so many PGs, and Flynn being one of them!

There were some Minny fans on here who defended him, even though it was nearly impossible to do so. I hope those posters aren't still clinging to that arguement.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 04:10 PM
The funny thing is, if you took both of their strengths, and made one GM, they would be good.

Kahn: Good at understanding financial flexibility and value of contracts and managing the cap, horrible at evaluating talent.
Thomas: Good talent evaluator, horrible at managing contracts and the cap.
Kahn isn't good at anything. Time to get over it. Dumping all your assets isn't hard if you inherited some decent pieces. I mean show me a few examples of why hes good at anything you just said.

How is Thomas a good talent evaluator when he gave Jerome James his contract? Hes been pretty good at drafting, thats it.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 04:13 PM
They would of been a respectable team and probably playoff contenders if it weren't for the injuries. The Love contract is beyond idiotic. You're basically telling Love to leave to either sign with the Lakers or whoever he chooses. And they might end up overpaying Nikoli

If Kahn were even halfway competent, the Twolves would've been in the playoffs alot sooner and much more competitive despite injuries.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 04:16 PM
Kahn isn't good at anything. Time to get over it. Dumping all your assets isn't hard if you inherited some decent pieces. I mean show me a few examples of why hes good at anything you just said.

How is Thomas a good talent evaluator when he gave Jerome James his contract? Hes been pretty good at drafting, thats it.

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant. He's good at drafting but sucks when it comes to free agents and trades!

Chronz
04-24-2013, 04:16 PM
OK,

What Timberwolves need to do 1st, is put out a hit on Bill Simmons... You just can't go around openly disrespecting people like this ...lmao
Bill wanted his job back in the day. Kahn doesn't deserve respect so the hitmen would just laugh at him

Chronz
04-24-2013, 04:18 PM
I'm pretty sure that's what he meant. He's good at drafting but sucks when it comes to free agents and trades!
I see.
I used to think so too, but if your giving Jerome the kind of money he got, then part of me thinks he was just getting lucky in the draft.

Then again, hes been so money its hard to argue that.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 04:27 PM
I see.
I used to think so too, but if your giving Jerome the kind of money he got, then part of me thinks he was just getting lucky in the draft.

Then again, hes been so money its hard to argue that.

Plz don't say Jerome James name ever again...that had to be one of the worst signing of the decade

topdog
04-24-2013, 04:39 PM
Me and practically this entire site ripped Kahn after that draft. Not especially not passing on Curry (as a Knicks fan, I wanted Curry bad, and I still can't believe how many teams passed on him) but for drafting so many PGs, and Flynn being one of them!

There were some Minny fans on here who defended him, even though it was nearly impossible to do so. I hope those posters aren't still clinging to that arguement.

Are people still trying to play the PG card? I have no problem saying that Kahn isn't a great drafter (it seems he simply follows mock drafts/concensus) or saying that the Jonny Flynn baffled me at the time, but to demean a GM simply for drafting (and then dealing) 4 PGs in a PG-heavy draft is just plain silly. Non-PGs in that draft included Jordan Hill (already had Love and Big Al), Derozan, Terence Williams (boy were some of you irrationally high on him!), Mullens, Casspi, Blair, (not Steph Curry who was being sold as a PG).

Chronz
04-24-2013, 04:39 PM
Thomas is the best GM Toronto ever had.......

let that sink in....

Greet
04-24-2013, 04:42 PM
Thomas is the best GM Toronto ever had.......

let that sink in....

Hahaha.....ouch

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 04:44 PM
They would of been a respectable team and probably playoff contenders if it weren't for the injuries. The Love contract is beyond idiotic. You're basically telling Love to leave to either sign with the Lakers or whoever he chooses. And they might end up overpaying Nikoli

a true center who goes for 16-8 gets paid dude. Period.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 04:45 PM
Kahn isn't good at anything. Time to get over it. Dumping all your assets isn't hard if you inherited some decent pieces. I mean show me a few examples of why hes good at anything you just said.

How is Thomas a good talent evaluator when he gave Jerome James his contract? Hes been pretty good at drafting, thats it.

He is good at cap management. The financial part of things. Pure money. Nothing basketball related.

And I was referring directly to Thomas's drafting, which is the huge weakness of Kahn.

3RDASYSTEM
04-24-2013, 04:48 PM
This is why I know all that PER and efficient and making teammates better is a bunch of ******** poppycock

how in hell do you draft a so called franchise player and stash him overseas for 1month 1yr or yrs

then you have a guy who proved his worth in college as CURRY did only to take a 'hype' pick because it was no overseas player worth drafting outright so they had to hype up a overseas player who has been playing professional overseas for yrs, to only go and stash him away for more yrs to 'develop'....sounds like BEAN without the rings type ****, RUBIO will be top 5 ever when its said and done

No matter what you are who you are, RUBIO and MARAVICH and JORDAN and SHAQ and so on are clear prime examples of that

RUBIO was a pass happy avg shooting PG pre injury, now imagine what he's going to be after the injury or when he gets back to full strength all the way, the same RUBIO before the alc tear or whatever injury he just came off of

you guys know how to use this PER **** and make somebody look like something else as a player, us actual players know better

on another travesty note
MARC GASOL winning the DPOY is such a disrespect to SHAQ/TONY ALLEN/DUNCAN/NOAH and any past member who never won or only won it 1x and should have more since M.GASOL won DPOY

DREAM should have 5 DPOY trophies, **** even BEAN should have 1 if GASOL got 1, pure travesty

and I don't want to see no Def. numbers from him, I've watched enough of him as a player to determine that, he's not DPOY material, EATON should have at least 3 if GASOL got 1,either GASOL for that matter

beasted86
04-24-2013, 05:07 PM
This article makes me angry when I hear NBA team owners complain about losing money and parity.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 05:11 PM
This is why I know all that PER and efficient and making teammates better is a bunch of ******** poppycock

how in hell do you draft a so called franchise player and stash him overseas for 1month 1yr or yrs

then you have a guy who proved his worth in college as CURRY did only to take a 'hype' pick because it was no overseas player worth drafting outright so they had to hype up a overseas player who has been playing professional overseas for yrs, to only go and stash him away for more yrs to 'develop'....sounds like BEAN without the rings type ****, RUBIO will be top 5 ever when its said and done

No matter what you are who you are, RUBIO and MARAVICH and JORDAN and SHAQ and so on are clear prime examples of that

RUBIO was a pass happy avg shooting PG pre injury, now imagine what he's going to be after the injury or when he gets back to full strength all the way, the same RUBIO before the alc tear or whatever injury he just came off of

you guys know how to use this PER **** and make somebody look like something else as a player, us actual players know better

on another travesty note
MARC GASOL winning the DPOY is such a disrespect to SHAQ/TONY ALLEN/DUNCAN/NOAH and any past member who never won or only won it 1x and should have more since M.GASOL won DPOY

DREAM should have 5 DPOY trophies, **** even BEAN should have 1 if GASOL got 1, pure travesty

and I don't want to see no Def. numbers from him, I've watched enough of him as a player to determine that, he's not DPOY material, EATON should have at least 3 if GASOL got 1,either GASOL for that matter
Nothing you said makes sense. Can you provide facts and explain what PER has to do with this thread?

Chronz
04-24-2013, 05:17 PM
He is good at cap management. The financial part of things. Pure money. Nothing basketball related.
If its not basketball related then your not good at managing anything. Put it this way, if he were to dump Love right now, he would have cleared out some cap space. But it wouldn't be worth bragging about because ANYONE can decide to dump their best players and get very little in return.

I consider a GM to be good at CAP management when they actually manage their payroll effectively.

Like when the Spurs traded Hill for the rights to Kawhi. They cleared some salary whilst improving the team. Now THATS cap management. Kahn has had some decent moves, but I wouldn't say hes good at anything. More like average at somethings and completely idiotic at others.


And I was referring directly to Thomas's drafting, which is the huge weakness of Kahn.
So hes a good drafter (prolly) but inept at judging NBA talent? Thats hard for me to buy but even if its the case, but I still dont see a good GM. You know its bad when Isiah is the one comprising most of the skill in that partnership.

mp3
04-24-2013, 05:25 PM
Having Curry, Lawson, and Rubio wouldn't have done anything for this team. Lets not forget they drafted Pekovic in the 2nd round and traded for Kevin Love the year before. Every team screws up.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 05:26 PM
If its not basketball related then your not good at managing anything. Put it this way, if he were to dump Love right now, he would have cleared out some cap space. But it wouldn't be worth bragging about because ANYONE can decide to dump their best players and get very little in return.

I consider a GM to be good at CAP management when they actually manage their payroll effectively.

Like when the Spurs traded Hill for the rights to Kawhi. They cleared some salary whilst improving the team. Now THATS cap management. Kahn has had some decent moves, but I wouldn't say hes good at anything. More like average at somethings and completely idiotic at others.


So hes a good drafter (prolly) but inept at judging NBA talent? Thats hard for me to buy but even if its the case, but I still dont see a good GM. You know its bad when Isiah is the one comprising most of the skill in that partnership.

Nope, outside of managing money like it's an entity that doesn't matter what product it produces, I struggle to find anything he does well anymore. He is a finance guy. Bout it. I stopped defending Kahn more and more over the past 18 months, and even though injuries destroyed us this year (I do disagree slightly with your comment that he should have made our team more competitive with these injuries, 330 games missed, and we won 31 IS doing that), I don't see a bright future for the Wolves at all with Kahn at the helm. He needs to go, period.

Kahn took over a team in ruins. But with the picks he had and created/flexibility he created early, there is no reason this team should not have been much more competitive the last 2 years. The Love contract just baffles me dude.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 05:27 PM
Having Curry, Lawson, and Rubio wouldn't have done anything for this team. Lets not forget they drafted Pekovic in the 2nd round and traded for Kevin Love the year before. Every team screws up.

McHale drafted Pekovic and made the trade for McHale.

CavsYanksDuke
04-24-2013, 05:33 PM
I know hindsight is 20/20, but I remember as MIN made these picks, everyone was confused. It wasn't like the next day, the analysts gave MIN a bad grade. The guys at the draft were instantly like, "...What?" and I thought Curry was going to wind up in a NYK uni after all.

Props to GSW for having great drafts the last few years and taking advantage of silly franchises like MIN. As a Cavs fan, MIN makes Dan Gilbert look like Marty Kahn.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 05:58 PM
(I do disagree slightly with your comment that he should have made our team more competitive with these injuries, 330 games missed, and we won 31 IS doing that),
My standards are higher. You trot that number out but its not very telling. Not all missed games are treated equally so why would I care about it? Like how many of those games missed a result of his poor investment in Roy? I get the loss of Love, but my point is that his departure shouldn't be this crippling if the team was run by someone who could acquire the depth necessary to compete.

Maybe Im being too harsh but I dont see how you can say hes a bad GM yet come to the conclusion that the team has competed in Love's absence. If that were true then Kahn would have done a fine job building the supporting cast.

I think he was handed a great situation for a rebuilding team and managed to muck it up anyways, that he inherited a few star bigs and did so little with it has cost them, thats why I dont buy that hes good at cap management. If he were, then he would have more to show for it.

topdog
04-24-2013, 06:17 PM
I know hindsight is 20/20, but I remember as MIN made these picks, everyone was confused. It wasn't like the next day, the analysts gave MIN a bad grade. The guys at the draft were instantly like, "...What?" and I thought Curry was going to wind up in a NYK uni after all.

Props to GSW for having great drafts the last few years and taking advantage of silly franchises like MIN. As a Cavs fan, MIN makes Dan Gilbert look like Marty Kahn.

Because Ekpe Udoh was such a great pick? How about Anthony Randolph? Barnes gift-wrapped hardly counts and even that pick could be interesting in hindsight based upon how the next couple years go for Bogut and Drummond.

Let's play hindsight here: Hibbert, Curry, Monroe (or George), Thompson, Barnes (or Drummond).

Dade County
04-24-2013, 06:58 PM
Do you know why Bill Simmons hates Minnesota and somewhat has a vendetta against Kahn specifically?

Minny fans don't care about the 2009 draft anymore. It is over and done with. All of this would have been forgotten had we been healthy this season and been in the playoffs.

Lastly it is time PSD started thinking about contraction of certain posters.

I know I would make that list!

mightybosstone
04-24-2013, 06:59 PM
Imagine if they had taken Curry with one of those early picks and either kept Rubio and/or Lawson? A core of Lawson/Curry/Love/Pekovic or Rubio/Curry/Love/Pekovic would be absolutely stacked. To me, that's why this draft was a truly epic failure. Not only did they pass on Curry twice for two lesser players, but they then traded away Lawson, who turned out to be a huge steal. If you're going to draft three PGs, at least draft the right ones and take guys who compliment each other. Drafting Flynn and Rubio didn't make any sense to begin with. Rubio and Curry would have been pure sex together.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 07:08 PM
My standards are higher. You trot that number out but its not very telling. Not all missed games are treated equally so why would I care about it? Like how many of those games missed a result of his poor investment in Roy? I get the loss of Love, but my point is that his departure shouldn't be this crippling if the team was run by someone who could acquire the depth necessary to compete.

Maybe Im being too harsh but I dont see how you can say hes a bad GM yet come to the conclusion that the team has competed in Love's absence. If that were true then Kahn would have done a fine job building the supporting cast.

I think he was handed a great situation for a rebuilding team and managed to muck it up anyways, that he inherited a few star bigs and did so little with it has cost them, thats why I dont buy that hes good at cap management. If he were, then he would have more to show for it.

I don't disagree he was given an ideal rebuilding opportunity.

1/5th of the season missed by every projected starter. Rubio missing 25 games plus working his way back in. Sorry, with all that has happened, 31 wins is about what to expect.

I think we both agree, Kahn has no business being an NBA GM.

BKLYNpigeon
04-24-2013, 07:48 PM
Lets not forget, in 2009 the league was crazy about Dominate Point Guards.

Derrick Rose, CP3, and Westbrook's of the world was stealing the show. Minnesota was trying to draft all the top PG's and have chips to trade.

Clippersfan86
04-24-2013, 07:50 PM
Also don't forget the Cassell trade a handful of years earlier. Their draft pick we got was the main piece along with Eric Gordon to land CP3. Not to mention Cassell led us to the playoffs and 1 game short of the WCF, where as Jaric became super scrub and vanished shortly after.

mp3
04-24-2013, 08:10 PM
Because Ekpe Udoh was such a great pick? How about Anthony Randolph? Barnes gift-wrapped hardly counts and even that pick could be interesting in hindsight based upon how the next couple years go for Bogut and Drummond.

Let's play hindsight here: Hibbert, Curry, Monroe (or George), Thompson, Barnes (or Drummond).

Well in hindsight the Warriors are in the playoffs while the Wolves are not. The Warriors seem to have a future. Lets be honest, You know Love isn't finishing out that contract.

topdog
04-24-2013, 08:56 PM
Well in hindsight the Warriors are in the playoffs while the Wolves are not. The Warriors seem to have a future. Lets be honest, You know Love isn't finishing out that contract.

My point wasn't "let's attack the other team." My point was that nearly every team that has been in the lottery for a few years is bound to have their share of misses and it's just plain silly to act like GMs "should have known." Curry was slight and Lawson was undersized.

As far as Wolves and Warriors, I had both penciled in to the playoffs with the disclaimer of "assuming health." The Dubs got 78+ games from their PG and PF, the Wolves got 57 and 18 respectively. I don't see how the Wolves don't have a future. They have Love under contract for a couple more years as well as Rubio, RFA rights to Pek, a lottery pick and likely some other good players coming back so long as Adelman returns.

Rick Rude
04-24-2013, 09:05 PM
Over the years that Minnesota has sucked, just look at how much further and better off the teams that were in the same position, are now.

These are teams that have tons of youth, high level talent, a system, players that are happy, and make sense being on the court with another.

What does minny have? All teams make mistakes, but minny seems to compound them more than any other since the Knicks days of zeke. I still look at minny and think they can't seriously think they are building anything better than a 7-8th seed around love and Rubio.

CityofChaos
04-24-2013, 09:14 PM
Hey guys Ive got an idea. Ill make an article on how 18 teams passed on Rajon Rondo in the summer of 2006. I think by doing so I will give people the impression that Im smart and know much more than the average NBA scout when I don't, then I will feel so good because fans are agreeing with me. They will say "Damn, this guy is right, they SHOULD have drafted that guy OMG"

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2013, 09:20 PM
Hey guys Ive got an idea. Ill make an article on how 18 teams passed on Rajon Rondo in the summer of 2006. I think by doing so I will give people the impression that Im smart and know much more than the average NBA scout when I don't, then I will feel so good because fans are agreeing with me. They will say "Damn, this guy is right, they SHOULD have drafted that guy OMG"

:facepalm:

NYtilIdie
04-24-2013, 09:40 PM
The "It will work" days seem so long ago lol.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 09:43 PM
I don't disagree he was given an ideal rebuilding opportunity.

1/5th of the season missed by every projected starter. Rubio missing 25 games plus working his way back in. Sorry, with all that has happened, 31 wins is about what to expect.

I think we both agree, Kahn has no business being an NBA GM.

I dont think your getting my point, its expected because Kahn is such a bad GM. If a good GM was in place, then these injuries wouldn't be so glaring. Different standards I guess.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 09:45 PM
Imagine if they had taken Curry with one of those early picks and either kept Rubio and/or Lawson? A core of Lawson/Curry/Love/Pekovic or Rubio/Curry/Love/Pekovic would be absolutely stacked. To me, that's why this draft was a truly epic failure. Not only did they pass on Curry twice for two lesser players, but they then traded away Lawson, who turned out to be a huge steal. If you're going to draft three PGs, at least draft the right ones and take guys who compliment each other. Drafting Flynn and Rubio didn't make any sense to begin with. Rubio and Curry would have been pure sex together.
More than any other team, I think they would have been better served just letting a computer make all the decisions in the draft.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 09:47 PM
ps

Was Roy a projected starter?

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 09:52 PM
I dont think your getting my point, its expected because Kahn is such a bad GM. If a good GM was in place, then these injuries wouldn't be so glaring. Different standards I guess.

So you expect a competent GM to have a 31 win team while having a team set an NBA record for games misse due to injury?

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 09:53 PM
ps

Was Roy a projected starter?

Roy, Lee, or Howard. Take your pick. All done for the year.

Ill21
04-24-2013, 09:58 PM
Hawkeye is salty as all hell

Hawkeye15
04-24-2013, 10:11 PM
I dont think your getting my point, its expected because Kahn is such a bad GM. If a good GM was in place, then these injuries wouldn't be so glaring. Different standards I guess.

set an NBA record for injuries. Record

topdog
04-24-2013, 10:37 PM
The "It will work" days seem so long ago lol.

The ironic thing about this is that for the last two years Luke Ridnour (a career PG) has been playing SG next to Rubio.

Sota4Ever
04-24-2013, 10:50 PM
Never seen a bad franchise get so much hate. People argue about Love, Rubio, Kahn. It is really weird to see how one team that hasn't been good for so long can take so much heat.

Chronz
04-24-2013, 11:38 PM
So you expect a competent GM to have a 31 win team while having a team set an NBA record for games misse due to injury?
Obviously, if Kahn (an incompetent GM) can muster 31 wins, what do you think a competent GM who would have been able to provide some semblance of depth, would've done?


Roy, Lee, or Howard. Take your pick. All done for the year.
Thats sad. How does Kahn still have a job?

Chronz
04-24-2013, 11:40 PM
set an NBA record for injuries. Record
I already told you what I thought about your stat.

John Walls Era
04-25-2013, 02:07 AM
LMFAO at Rubio "digressing". Does anyone actually WATCH the players they talk about? He played just as well, if not better this year than last year. Stats? Adjust for the first few weeks where he was A)Fresh off injury and B)On extremely limited minutes.

Hes been fantastic. MVP. **** Lebron. Rubio for MVP!

RollingWave
04-25-2013, 02:30 AM
I'm unsure about Rubio, from a now POV I'd take Lawson, the real question ends up being can he improve his shooting? if he keep shooting like this he better dish like John Stockton, and he's only comparable with Stockton's rookie year in this department, Stockton was about twice as good 2 years later.

The thing is, Rubio's play in the Euro league doesn't suggest he can shoot either, that's not a great sign.

He does a lot of other things well, but if he can't do the primary thing well enough that's not gonna cut it. you can not expect to have a good team with your main ball handler shooting 40/30 from FG/3P ... and Rubio didn't even shoot that, he shot more like 36/29 . though i'll give him credit that he did manage to close out the year shooting 3s pretty well. (but terrible inside the arc)

At this point, I'm not sure where Rubio's career is heading. he's entertaining for sure, but effective? not right now.

Yeah, everyone swing and miss to an extend in the draft, Chandler Parsons was passed up by all 30 team at least once in the draft when it now looks like he shoulda been in the top 10 if not top 5, Isiah Thomas as drafted last in the draft but have been a top 10 value guy so far as well. (granted I would guess that when they're careers are done several others would pass him . )

Still, Minni's miss was beyond the normal level of Swing and miss, it didn't even make much sense on draft day, Parsons had a meh college career and was a skinny white forward that couldn't shoot, so it made some sense to pass him, but many of Minni's decision didn't even make sense back then.

AI4MVP
04-25-2013, 03:00 AM
Hes been fantastic. MVP. **** Lebron. Rubio for MVP!

Dont put words in my mouth. My whole point was that he nowhere near "digressed", as you put it.

xabial
04-25-2013, 07:14 AM
I still like Kahn's style of GMing. He was a very entertaining GM to watch. Very aggressive.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
04-25-2013, 10:33 AM
Damn what else could go wrong? Next Love will demand a trade.