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View Full Version : How do you define "MVP"?



JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2013, 10:08 PM
People discuss who they think should be MVP. I think there is little doubt that LBJ will win the award this year, but I believe every year there are several players deserving of the award depending on how you define it, and history has shown that voters' criteria is very different from year to year. Nash was never the "best" player, but he certainly was the most valuable. Kareem won MVP for a season where he wasn't even on a playoff team, which I don't think would happen today.

How do you define it?

ThaDubs
04-22-2013, 10:13 PM
If you are on a contender and you are the sole reason for your teams high success level you are an MVP.

ManRam
04-22-2013, 10:17 PM
"The best player on a legit contender" i guess. i'd be fine if it was just the top choice, but it's clearly not how things work.

i didn't pick "The player who is most important to his team winning" because i look at it more like "the player who would be the most valuable to any team".


the reality is: i don't actually know, voters don't really know...and at the very least it's incredibly inconsistent. it's a pretty fluid set of criteria.

bucketss
04-22-2013, 10:18 PM
the best player on one of the best teams in the league.

Purple_n_Gold
04-22-2013, 10:33 PM
IMO it should be the player most valuable to his team. If you removed that player from the team they would be exponentially worse. Although as stated before the criteria used is very inconsistent. Now we are on the voting cycle where the best player in the league is getting the award as opposed to actually most valuable to their team. For example Chris Paul may by easily be the most valuable to his team. He is like the engine that makes the clippers go. Without him they are pretty damn bad as we have seen. Not many of those players can get their own shot and he facilitates all that. Take him away from that team and you have a lot of players who can dunk (slight exaggeration.)

bucketss
04-22-2013, 10:39 PM
its called the most valuable player of the league.

Purple_n_Gold
04-22-2013, 10:41 PM
Yes which corresponds to the team they are on. A player who makes their team exponentially greater. Which is why Nash has two MVPs. Thank you for your astute observation though.

ManRam
04-22-2013, 10:44 PM
that's what i don't get. why do we treat it like "most valuable to HIS team" and not just "most valuable player period"? where does it say the former is the case?

not saying it's wrong, i'm just saying i don't get it and that it's all so fluid in definition. there have been inconsistencies galore in the past.

Avenged
04-22-2013, 10:46 PM
To me it should be the best player, period. Being a 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd seed shouldn't be a necessity. In the case of Lebron, he doesn't really have to worry about this and we probably won't have to for a good while.. He's the best player, period... on the best team.

Purple_n_Gold
04-22-2013, 10:47 PM
Agreed. Great inconsistencies. If its not most valuable to the team than I don't believe Nash would have any MVPs that's my sample case but I do understand what you mean. It's been given for being the most valuable to the team and best player in the league as well. I don't think even the voters know how this award should be given. What's the NBAs definition of the award?

JJ_JKidd
04-22-2013, 10:47 PM
People discuss who they think should be MVP. I think there is little doubt that LBJ will win the award this year, but I believe every year there are several players deserving of the award depending on how you define it, and history has shown that voters' criteria is very different from year to year. Nash was never the "best" player, but he certainly was the most valuable. Kareem won MVP for a season where he wasn't even on a playoff team, which I don't think would happen today.

How do you define it?

MVP: Highest paid (or one of the). Remove him from the team and team has zero chance of winning Chip.

ManRam
04-22-2013, 10:51 PM
Agreed. Great inconsistencies. If its not most valuable to the team than I don't believe Nash would have any MVPs that's my sample case but I do understand what you mean. Very vague definition of what the definition of the award really should be.

i think voters often treat it like it is "most valuable player to HIS team". others might just go the silly "best player on the best team route". i'd guarantee you many voters switch it up to.

there basically is no criteria. that's why we see guys like nash, rose, iverson etc. win...and sometimes also see the best player in the league win even when not on the best (or even second/third best) team.

justinnum1
04-22-2013, 10:54 PM
MVP-Lebron James

Purple_n_Gold
04-22-2013, 10:54 PM
i think voters often treat it like it is "most valuable player to HIS team". others might just go the silly "best player on the best team route". i'd guarantee you many voters switch it up to.

there basically is no criteria. that's why we see guys like nash, rose, iverson etc. win...and sometimes also see the best player in the league win even when not on the best (or even second/third best) team.
I agree totally. I do not think Nash was ever even close to being the best player in the league but was most valuable to his team. Seems like no consistency with voting or criteria.

--23--
04-22-2013, 10:59 PM
I voted "The player who is most important to his team winning". I think the meaning of this changes every other year. Like Purple & Gold said Nash has two MVP's by making his teammates better along with having a great record. Lebron wins because he's the best player in the league with the stats etc, Rose & Dirk won cause they lead their team to a great record and the most important to their teams.

So really there's no correct way to vote for this, the only thing that's constant with this is team success.



its called the most valuable player of the league.

It's called MVP not MVPOTL :laugh2:

bucketss
04-22-2013, 10:59 PM
Yes which corresponds to the team they are on. A player who makes their team exponentially greater. Which is why Nash has two MVPs. Thank you for your astute observation though.

wasn't talking to you but thanks for being a douche.

bucketss
04-22-2013, 11:07 PM
I voted "The player who is most important to his team winning". I think the meaning of this changes every other year. Like Purple & Gold said Nash has two MVP's by making his teammates better along with having a great record. Lebron wins because he's the best player in the league with the stats etc, Rose & Dirk won cause they lead their team to a great record and very most important to their teams.

So really there's no correct way to vote for this, the only thing that's constant with this is team success.




It's called MVP not MVPOTL :laugh2:

well you can't really prove that if you take lebron off the team that the heat wouldn't drop off the most.. lebron leads that team in almost every statistical category and anchors a top defense that regularly plays small ball.

and to your last comment... maybe we should call it "the player whos team losses the most games without him award?" .. stern has said a lot of times its the most valuable player of the league award.

Avenged
04-22-2013, 11:07 PM
I voted "The player who is most important to his team winning". I think the meaning of this changes every other year. Like Purple & Gold said Nash has two MVP's by making his teammates better along with having a great record. Lebron wins because he's the best player in the league with the stats etc, Rose & Dirk won cause they lead their team to a great record and very most important to their teams.

So really there's no correct way to vote for this, the only thing that's constant with this is team success.




It's called MVP not MVPOTL :laugh2:

Rose for example, won because he lead a team not many expected to be THAT good. I mean 62 wins? Not many saw that one coming BUT he definitely benefited from the teammates he had as well.

I guess I have no real issues with it since it is defined as the "most valuable".. but it would be cool (at least to me) for THE BEST PLAYER to always get rewarded.

Aust
04-23-2013, 12:47 AM
I define it as the Most Valuable Player.

Those who vote define it as: Stats.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2013, 12:58 AM
"The best player on a legit contender" i guess. i'd be fine if it was just the top choice, but it's clearly not how things work.

i didn't pick "The player who is most important to his team winning" because i look at it more like "the player who would be the most valuable to any team".


the reality is: i don't actually know, voters don't really know...and at the very least it's incredibly inconsistent. it's a pretty fluid set of criteria.

yeah, best player in the game on a legit contender for me.

BklynKnicks3
04-24-2013, 10:45 AM
Someone who's team won alot of games and if u take him of they struggle for 8 seed aka Melo. Lebron James should not have 1 vote but since peopel forgot what mvp means he will get every vote best player on best team vote smh

Minimal
04-24-2013, 11:16 AM
For me MVP = Best player in the league

NoahH
04-24-2013, 11:20 AM
What if MVP is "the best player on a legit contender" and "the best statistical player"? That's LeBron.

But yeah the way I see it, If you are a great player but not on a legit contender youre missing something... You have to take your team to the next level to be an MVP, not just be a good player on an average team.

Big Zo
04-24-2013, 11:37 AM
"Not Melo."

PhillyFaninLA
04-24-2013, 12:24 PM
Player on a playoff team that was more important than any other playoff team to the overall success of the team.

It is most valuable not best player. The best statistical player may not be the most valuable.

ChiTownPacerFan
04-24-2013, 12:52 PM
Other. The player that has the most impressive season, for whatever reason. That could be because the player leads his team to a 66 win season, or that could be because the player averages 40 points per game. There's no one specific criterion.

xRipCity
04-24-2013, 12:58 PM
Most important to team winning.

Which is why, two years ago, (I know this is an NBA question but it relates) i voted Peyton Manning for MVP, even though he didn't play all year. The Colts' awful record showed the truth. Peyton Manning was most important to his team winning.

And don't get me started with Brady. Matt Cassell who won't have a starting job next year went 11-5 when Brady was out.

BklynKnicks3
04-24-2013, 01:01 PM
i been preaching this to brady fans for years he doesnt touch manning. He is a system qb

ewing
04-24-2013, 01:19 PM
Most valuable player

pedrofan45
04-24-2013, 01:57 PM
Most important to team winning.

Which is why, two years ago, (I know this is an NBA question but it relates) i voted Peyton Manning for MVP, even though he didn't play all year. The Colts' awful record showed the truth. Peyton Manning was most important to his team winning.

And don't get me started with Brady. Matt Cassell who won't have a starting job next year went 11-5 when Brady was out.

First of all, the Patriots didn't even make the playoffs that year. And Cassel was way better than the Colts' back up qb anyways, he showed it in 2010 on the Chiefs.

Also, do you forget that the previous year Brady took his team to an 18-1 record breaking season? I'd say Brady is just as valuable as Peyton (Who struggles to even get out of the first round of the playoffs).

Back to the question, the MVP is the Most Valuable Player in the entire league. It's pretty easy to define IMO. If you were starting a team, you'd pick the MVP first because he gives you the best chance of winning. I don't really believe in how valuable a player is to his team (pointing the Steve Nash), because he had great players around him that made him look better than he was (he definitely was great those years, just not MVP of the league in my eyes).

MVP of the NBA. The best player in the NBA, who gives any team the best chance to win. Screw this "most important to team winning" talk, at that point it's all about the system (Steve Nash).

Back to football now, you think Peyton Manning isn't a system QB? The whole team was based off of him (offense), which in a way is a system as well. But would he give any team in the NFL the best chance to win? How many times does this guy have to choke in the playoffs for fans to realize that Peyton running everything on offense probably isn't the right choice?

BklynKnicks3
04-25-2013, 09:34 AM
aint it funny how the system is now on the broncos peyton is not a system qb he is the system

pedrofan45
04-25-2013, 11:36 AM
aint it funny how the system is now on the broncos peyton is not a system qb he is the system

Ain't it funny how the Broncos still lost in the first round of the playoffs :laugh:

Peyton has a great system that can win you games in the regular season, but come playoff time, the good teams seem to figure out what he tries to do offensively. Lots of first round exits and the one time he won the Superbowl he rode his defense the entire way. Certainly didn't have regular season Manning stats.

Let's get back to the thread though if anyone else has any input.

BklynKnicks3
04-25-2013, 11:58 AM
funny ho wbrady is garbage in almost every afc championshop game he is in and still wins

pedrofan45
04-25-2013, 12:45 PM
funny ho wbrady is garbage in almost every afc championshop game he is in and still wins

Still going on about this eh? Brady has been to the most conference championships of all-time. And he's only been bad in 2 of them. Both to the Ravens, and both times Gronk was injured which obviously affects Brady's game plan tremendously. Anyways I agree Brady should have played better.

Let's make a thread in the NFL forum and we'll continue to beat this dead horse of how Manning doesn't know how to step it up come playoff time.

mjm07
04-25-2013, 12:52 PM
aint it funny how the system is now on the broncos peyton is not a system qb he is the system

I agree but in NE they revolve around Brady's talent as well. He's pretty damn good and I hate the Pats.

regarding this thread MVP = best player in the league.

BklynKnicks3
04-25-2013, 03:25 PM
Mvp = A man who put a team and city on his back and leads his team to a high win total. A man who if u remove of the team he is on would have a tough tiem cracking .500. Or u can just call him Melo

KnicksorBust
04-25-2013, 07:04 PM
There are enough great players every season that this award should be limitted to players whose teams are also in the upper echelon of the league. For me, success of the team cannot be taken out of the equation.

DumDum
04-25-2013, 08:03 PM
LeBron james

Im_in_Mia_bish
04-25-2013, 08:14 PM
The person who brings the most value to his/her team.
LeBron is the MVP this season.
+/- prove that.

OceanSpray
04-25-2013, 10:12 PM
Question: How do you define MVP?

What he means: LeBron is MVP.

Chitownhero1992
04-26-2013, 12:05 AM
To me the MVP should be decided by looking at the team take their best and most important player off how does the team play. If they are still playoff bound and contenders then he is not the MVP, if they are a winning team and contender without him, he is not the MVP. But if they struggle with winning and or even just not playoff bound then yes he is an MVP.

That's why I've thought the LBJ MVP's the last 2 years were wrong, take him off the Heat and the Heat are still a top 4 Seed in the East. Take Rose of the Bulls they struggle, take Melo off the Knicks they struggle, take Williams off the Nets they don't make the playoffs, etc.

This years MVP should have been Melo and I've never been a Melo fan. Last year it should have went to Durant or Paul.

LBJ6
04-26-2013, 03:32 AM
To me the MVP should be decided by looking at the team take their best and most important player off how does the team play. If they are still playoff bound and contenders then he is not the MVP, if they are a winning team and contender without him, he is not the MVP. But if they struggle with winning and or even just not playoff bound then yes he is an MVP.

That's why I've thought the LBJ MVP's the last 2 years were wrong, take him off the Heat and the Heat are still a top 4 Seed in the East. Take Rose of the Bulls they struggle, take Melo off the Knicks they struggle, take Williams off the Nets they don't make the playoffs, etc.

This years MVP should have been Melo and I've never been a Melo fan. Last year it should have went to Durant or Paul.

I that's your criteria, a lot of past MVP's should be stripped of the awards, Jordan, Magic, Bird and others have had great teams... MVP is the best player in the league.

kyubi256
04-26-2013, 03:38 AM
I just feel if your statistics are out of this world, you should be MVP regardless of how your team does. That is just me...

pedrofan45
04-26-2013, 03:58 AM
The most valuable player in the league is the MVP hehe... but seriously it's really not that hard to distinguish

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-27-2013, 04:42 PM
Durant is my MVP. The Heat without Lebron are still fighting for the top seed in the East, the Thunder without Durant would get their *** whooped by Houston. Durant is the Best player on a contending team that wouldn't be **** without him. Durant is the MVP.

bucketss
04-27-2013, 04:44 PM
Durant is my MVP. The Heat without Lebron are still fighting for the top seed in the East, the Thunder without Durant would get their *** whooped by Houston. Durant is the Best player on a contending team that wouldn't be **** without him. Durant is the MVP.

westbrook
martin
sefolosha
ibaka
perkins

please tell me how the hell they would be ****? that team is much more talented than the rockets, stick to cosigning amos1ers posts smh.

Hawkeye15
04-27-2013, 04:49 PM
Do people really think if you remove Bron from the Heat, they are going to win the east? First off, Wade ALREADY needs games off, as a second banana, to heal his body. How would being forced to play him more and up his usage help his body? Outside Wade/Bosh, they would have almost nothing to help them, LeBron creates the easiest potential looks for his squad, and don't give me Ray Allen, he is a role player/shooter at this stage.

KnicksorBust
04-27-2013, 04:57 PM
Do people really think if you remove Bron from the Heat, they are going to win the east? First off, Wade ALREADY needs games off, as a second banana, to heal his body. How would being forced to play him more and up his usage help his body? Outside Wade/Bosh, they would have almost nothing to help them, LeBron creates the easiest potential looks for his squad, and don't give me Ray Allen, he is a role player/shooter at this stage.

I wouldn't guarantee they win the East but they'd still be a favorite. Wade takes off extra games because he can. Just because he's not 2008 Wade doesn't mean he's still not elite. You act like he'd have to put the Heat on his shoulders and carry them. That's not the case at all. How bout we throw that additional usage that you're so scared of and give it to Bosh? You know... the 24-10 big man who is only 29 years old and sacrificed his stats for the greater good? I have a funny feeling he could handle it just fine.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-27-2013, 04:59 PM
westbrook
martin
sefolosha
ibaka
perkins

please tell me how the hell they would be ****? that team is much more talented than the rockets, stick to cosigning amos1ers posts smh.
The Thunder would be lost without Durant. If Durant went down instead of Westy, the Rockets would 100 percent win that series.

Do people really think if you remove Bron from the Heat, they are going to win the east? First off, Wade ALREADY needs games off, as a second banana, to heal his body. How would being forced to play him more and up his usage help his body? Outside Wade/Bosh, they would have almost nothing to help them, LeBron creates the easiest potential looks for his squad, and don't give me Ray Allen, he is a role player/shooter at this stage.

It would be an absolute dog fight, but I do believe the Heat could beat any team in the East without Lebron.

All I'm saying is Durant means much more to the Thunder than Lebron does to the Heat.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-27-2013, 04:59 PM
I wouldn't guarantee they win the East but they'd still be a favorite. Wade takes off extra games because he can. Just because he's not 2008 Wade doesn't mean he's still not elite. You act like he'd have to put the Heat on his shoulders and carry them. That's not the case at all. How bout we throw that additional usage that you're so scared of and give it to Bosh? You know... the 24-10 big man who is only 29 years old and sacrificed his stats for the greater good? I have a funny feeling he could handle it just fine.

^

Hawkeye15
04-27-2013, 05:01 PM
I wouldn't guarantee they win the East but they'd still be a favorite. Wade takes off extra games because he can. Just because he's not 2008 Wade doesn't mean he's still not elite. You act like he'd have to put the Heat on his shoulders and carry them. That's not the case at all. How bout we throw that additional usage that you're so scared of and give it to Bosh? You know... the 24-10 big man who is only 29 years old and sacrificed his stats for the greater good? I have a funny feeling he could handle it just fine.

I don't think they would win the east. I don't think Wade can handle those minutes and usage anymore, and the only way I agree they still contend is in the scenario that LeBron isn't even there, and they have that money to get some more help. Bosh would give them two all stars, one of which probably makes an all NBA team no doubt, but they wouldn't have enough minus LeBron to hold off the east if healthy, unlike this year when teams left and right on both sides just were killed by injuries. hell the Knicks alone lost 240+ games due to injury.

bucketss
04-27-2013, 05:05 PM
The Thunder would be lost without Durant. If Durant went down instead of Westy, the Rockets would 100 percent win that series. .

i hate posts like this, you disagree, in a way to pretty much try to end this argument, at least brkylnknicks guy provides some facts, you just make a wild statement, get called out for it, than make another one. smh

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-27-2013, 05:50 PM
I don't think they would win the east. I don't think Wade can handle those minutes and usage anymore, and the only way I agree they still contend is in the scenario that LeBron isn't even there, and they have that money to get some more help. Bosh would give them two all stars, one of which probably makes an all NBA team no doubt, but they wouldn't have enough minus LeBron to hold off the east if healthy, unlike this year when teams left and right on both sides just were killed by injuries. hell the Knicks alone lost 240+ games due to injury.
The Point is, if the Heat are being talked about being able to pretty much take any East team in a 7 game series, doesn't that tell you a little about how great that team really is?

i hate posts like this, you disagree, in a way to pretty much try to end this argument, at least brkylnknicks guy provides some facts, you just make a wild statement, get called out for it, than make another one. smh

How do you see a seven game series going between a Duantless Thunder and a Houston team?

QueensG_718
04-27-2013, 07:22 PM
If you are on a contender and you are the sole reason for your teams high success level you are an MVP.

Melo

bucketss
04-27-2013, 08:05 PM
Melo

i think melo is the only so called superstar in the league that takes a few months off every year to play like monta ellis.

BklynKnicks3
04-28-2013, 10:11 AM
Melo is also the mvp of the playoffs so far. Kd fg% dippin just like i said it would. Kd lebron shoot fake %s due to rarely being doubled teamed and haveing another player who demands the attention of the defense. Lebron has 2.

bucketss
04-28-2013, 10:50 AM
Melo is also the mvp of the playoffs so far. Kd fg% dippin just like i said it would. Kd lebron shoot fake %s due to rarely being doubled teamed and haveing another player who demands the attention of the defense. Lebron has 2.

seriously get off the mans nuts.

Jarvo
04-28-2013, 11:52 AM
Lebron James.

BKLYNpigeon
04-28-2013, 12:13 PM
via Wikipedia:

In sports, a Most Valuable Player (MVP) award is an honor typically bestowed upon the best-performing player or players on a specific team, in an entire league, or for a particular contest or series of contests. Initially used in professional sports, the term is now also commonly used in amateur sports, as well as in other completely unrelated fields of endeavor such as business and music.

The term is typically only used in Canada, the United States, the Philippines and South Korea, although Australia uses the term for the National Basketball League. In many sports, some MVP awards are presented just for a specific game or match (in other words, a man of the match award), while others are awarded based on an entire season or year. The gender-neutral term Player of the Match is usually substituted for "Man of the Match" in women's team competitions.[1]

In the Australian Football League, the term "best and fairest" is more commonly used than "most valuable player" for the equivalent award on a season basis, and "best on ground" (BOG) is more commonly used for a single-match award. The "VFL/AFL Players Association Most Valuable Player", is the only award in the league to have used the "MVP" initialism.

Recently online reviews and polls are also taken. The McGrane Tournament calls their MVP the Joe Harenza Award. In the Canadian Football League they also have the CFL's Most Outstanding Player Award and Most Outstanding Canadian Player Award (regular season) and the Grey Cup Most Valuable Player (playoffs). The Philippine Basketball Association also awards its own Most Valuable Award.

Jagger
04-28-2013, 12:58 PM
MVP for me is the team's most valuable player, someone who help his team rank up by playing at his best while helping his teammates to improve as well.