PDA

View Full Version : Paul George wins MIP



B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-22-2013, 09:55 PM
Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA 22s
It looks like Paul George will be this year's Most Improved Player. The NBA has announced a press conference in Indiana.

Congrats to him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9202727/paul-george-indiana-pacers-nba-most-improved-player

ManRam
04-22-2013, 10:02 PM
i forget who won it in 2011, but back-to-back years at least where "most improved" really means "more minutes and thus better per game stats". because, at least statistically, he really wasn't any better at all.

even as a magic fan, last year i argued against anderson. because he fit the same billing.

bucketss
04-22-2013, 10:05 PM
^ love

Avenged
04-22-2013, 10:10 PM
i forget who won it in 2011, but back-to-back years at least where "most improved" really means "more minutes and thus better per game stats". because, at least statistically, he really wasn't any better at all.

even as a magic fan, last year i argued against anderson. because he fit the same billing.

Possibly... I think Harden fits that criteria more-so though. He made a big leap being a starter.

ThaDubs
04-22-2013, 10:11 PM
Definitely deserves it. His per 36 stats are much improved so it's not an improvement in stats due to improvement in MPG, and he's gone from a role playing starter to a all-star and leader of a winning team.

After him it's definitely Ibaka. Going from a brick thrower from 3 to a dangerous corner shooter and one of the deadliest PF medium shooters in the NBA.

ManRam
04-22-2013, 10:13 PM
Definitely deserves it. His per 36 stats are much improved so it's not an improvement in stats due to improvement in MPG, and he's gone from a role playing starter to a all-star and leader of a winning team.

After him it's definitely Ibaka. Going from a brick thrower from 3 to a dangerous corner shooter and one of the deadliest PF medium shooters in the NBA.

he hasn't improved a lick in terms of advanced stats. not one bit at all.

ThaDubs
04-22-2013, 10:17 PM
he hasn't improved a lick in terms of advanced stats. not one bit at all.

Intangibles. He is a great player both defensively and offensively. He can play 2-3 comfortably if not the 1 and 4. He has taken over as the leader of the Pacers and led them high up in the eastern conference standings. First playoff game this year: 23 points, 11 rebounds, 12 assists.

Avenged
04-22-2013, 10:25 PM
Intangibles. He is a great player both defensively and offensively. He can play 2-3 comfortably if not the 1 and 4. He has taken over as the leader of the Pacers and led them high up in the eastern conference standings. First playoff game this year: 23 points, 11 rebounds, 12 assists.

Possibly the worst triple double of all time lol didn't he shoot like 23%? :ouch:

ManRam
04-22-2013, 10:29 PM
Intangibles. He is a great player both defensively and offensively. He can play 2-3 comfortably if not the 1 and 4. He has taken over as the leader of the Pacers and led them high up in the eastern conference standings. First playoff game this year: 23 points, 11 rebounds, 12 assists.

there are people that A) actually got better and B) got better in terms of "intangibles".

his role grew a lot, and that does matter. he was relied on a lot more than ever before. but his growth of a player i just don't think was terribly paramount :shrug:

if you're gonna go the "he had to play a new role and excelled at it", how the hell do you not give it to harden instead?

that triple double was cool and all (terrible shooting, though), sure. not a terrible compelling argument to me. just one game.

ThaDubs
04-22-2013, 10:32 PM
there are people that A) actually got better and B) got better in terms of "intangibles".

his role grew a lot, and that does matter. he was relied on a lot more than ever before. but his growth of a player i just don't think was terribly paramount :shrug:

if you're gonna go the "he had to play a new role and excelled at it", how the hell do you not give it to harden instead?

that triple double was cool and all (terrible shooting, though), sure. not a terrible compelling argument to me. just one game.

Whatever. Like I said per 36 stats have increased. I think Ibaka is a close second.

goingfor28
04-22-2013, 10:38 PM
Well deserved

Swashcuff
04-22-2013, 10:43 PM
Paul is my dude and while I do think he is deserving of the award (same can be said for about 9 other guys TBH) I do agree with ManRam to the fact that statistically his game really hasn't improved that much other than the fact that he has played more minutes and has had greater offensive freedom with Granger being out virtually all season.

I don't the m this award had much to do with individual stats (basic or advanced tbh) but rather role and importance to team. The Pacers had the best D in the game this past season with Paul being their best defensive wing and despite th late season decline statistically earlier on he was really their go to player at all times early on and he answered the call on more occasions than not. I have no problem with Paul being given this award even if his stats didn't show drastic improvement.

da ThRONe
04-22-2013, 11:15 PM
Awards are about actual production not projected production.

justinnum1
04-22-2013, 11:17 PM
Cool, i guess. 6th man and MIP are pretty meaningless imo. MVP is the only one that really matters, DPOY is significant too but not at the level MVP is.

Avenged
04-22-2013, 11:22 PM
Cool, i guess. 6th man and MIP are pretty meaningless imo. MVP is the only one that really matters, DPOY is significant too but not at the level MVP is.

Eh, looks good on resumes, and if you're a F.A, looks good on the contract. ;)

SeoulBeatz
04-22-2013, 11:24 PM
Well deserved. Big fan of George's game.

LongWayFromHome
04-22-2013, 11:59 PM
Cool, i guess. 6th man and MIP are pretty meaningless imo. MVP is the only one that really matters, DPOY is significant too but not at the level MVP is.

:worthy:

This x1000

6th man = best player who played starter minutes but was better fit for his teams rotation to come off the bench

MIP = guy who wasn't as good last year

Im_in_Mia_bish
04-23-2013, 12:26 AM
so goddamn overrated.

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 12:33 AM
Edit

VCaintdead17
04-23-2013, 01:42 AM
i forget who won it in 2011, but back-to-back years at least where "most improved" really means "more minutes and thus better per game stats". because, at least statistically, he really wasn't any better at all.

even as a magic fan, last year i argued against anderson. because he fit the same billing.


Well this is entirely false. While yeah, his offense didn't really improve much, his assist% has skyrocket this season as has his defense, which took a slight step back last year, only to make a monstrous leap forward this year. Scoring wise, sure not much of an improvement (although maintaining pretty much the same effiency on a much increased USG and new role as second option shouldn't be ignored) every other of his game has improved. I get what you're saying and usually agree with most of your posts, but I don't think George fits into your nomenclature of MORE MINUTES=PRETTIER STATS.



Just my 2 cents

asandhu23
04-23-2013, 02:10 AM
How tall is he now? I remember when there were countless number of threads here all about his height and how he is the next Magic, Durant, etc, etc.

Pacerlive
04-23-2013, 02:16 AM
there are people that A) actually got better and B) got better in terms of "intangibles".

his role grew a lot, and that does matter. he was relied on a lot more than ever before. but his growth of a player i just don't think was terribly paramount :shrug:

if you're gonna go the "he had to play a new role and excelled at it", how the hell do you not give it to harden instead?

that triple double was cool and all (terrible shooting, though), sure. not a terrible compelling argument to me. just one game.

I could see a strong argument for Harden. I think the difference is being the number one option on offense and being assigned to stop the best offensive threat on the opposing team. He wasn't both of those last year and he was this year. Harden has always been a scorer and he excels in it but I wouldn't say he ranks close to PG on defense.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-23-2013, 02:28 AM
he hasn't improved a lick in terms of advanced stats. not one bit at all.

A lot of these voters (and people in general) don't seem to look at advanced stats. It's a shame really.

MonroeFAN
04-23-2013, 08:39 AM
how does Harden not win this?

:confused:

Swashcuff
04-23-2013, 08:50 AM
how does Harden not win this?

:confused:

Is Harden a better player than he was last year really? Don't think so he just got the possessions that he lacked in OKC.

Swashcuff
04-23-2013, 08:54 AM
Well this is entirely false. While yeah, his offense didn't really improve much, his assist% has skyrocket this season as has his defense, which took a slight step back last year, only to make a monstrous leap forward this year. Scoring wise, sure not much of an improvement (although maintaining pretty much the same effiency on a much increased USG and new role as second option shouldn't be ignored) every other of his game has improved. I get what you're saying and usually agree with most of your posts, but I don't think George fits into your nomenclature of MORE MINUTES=PRETTIER STATS.



Just my 2 cents

While Paul's ast% has increased this season his Ast/bad pass ratio has gotten worse. Which tells me he hasn't really improved that much as a passer per se but has been a more willing passer and has been looking to get his teammates involved a bit more. That in itself is an improvement if you ask me though. I think statistically speaking he has benefitted from playing more minutes and not having to share touches with Granger but not every player can respond as maturely as Paul did this season and for that I have no real beef with this award even though I think there were a few players who were more deserving.

ManRam
04-23-2013, 09:47 AM
Well this is entirely false. While yeah, his offense didn't really improve much, his assist% has skyrocket this season as has his defense, which took a slight step back last year, only to make a monstrous leap forward this year. Scoring wise, sure not much of an improvement (although maintaining pretty much the same effiency on a much increased USG and new role as second option shouldn't be ignored) every other of his game has improved. I get what you're saying and usually agree with most of your posts, but I don't think George fits into your nomenclature of MORE MINUTES=PRETTIER STATS.



Just my 2 cents


i'm probably being too absolute with this...because the change of role makes things harder on him, and he did do a great job overall. and the defensive improvements are true and impressive, for sure. in terms of perception, he went from 4th/5th option to a 2nd option and an all-star. that's definitely improvement.

i just see no increase in scoring efficiency. i see negligible/no increase in rebounding, turnovers, and basic defensive stats (blocks, steals). i see no change in PER or WS/48.

someone said earlier that his per 36 numbers increased, which is true...it's just they didn't increase much at all. guys like holiday, sanders, vucevic etc. all saw more gains per 36 minutes


sanders would have been who i voted for. per 36 minutes: +2.5 points, +3.5 rebounds. saw his PER jump 5.4 points. saw his WS/48 double, and his win shares overall go from 1.0 his first two seasons to 6.0 this season. his scoring efficiency jumped dramatically. he made strides defensively. i think to me it's more clear that he improved so dramatically not just because he got more minutes or saw a huge change in role, but because he actually got better.


i don't think it's a joke that george won...i just think, like last year, i'd prefer if they went about it a different way. anderson and george did improve, for sure, and it's hard to play as well with more minutes/increased role. but still. i think there were guys who made bigger strides.

I Rock Shaqs
04-23-2013, 09:54 AM
A lot of these voters (and people in general) don't seem to look at advanced stats. It's a shame really.

Because advance stats are lame as hell this is basketball not a math test, why don't yall advanced stats guy hop on the court sometime, get torched and then do some advanced stats. All you gotta do is watch the game.

ManRam
04-23-2013, 09:58 AM
Because advance stats are lame as hell this is basketball not a math test, why don't yall advanced stats guy hop on the court sometime, get torched and then do some advanced stats. All you gotta do is watch the game.

tell your favorite team's front office that. tell any front office that. i'm sure they'd just laugh at you.

FYL_McVeezy
04-23-2013, 10:00 AM
Congrats Paul George....def made some strides with Granger missing the season.....

mightybosstone
04-23-2013, 10:00 AM
I'm happy for George, but there are probably a dozen guys who could have won that award this season: Harden, Asik, Sanders, Vucevic, Parsons, Vasquez, Holiday, Thompson, Mayo, Hickson, etc. I would have liked to see it go to Harden or another Rocket.

And for the guy who said Ibaka should get it, get out of here with that nonsense. Yeah, he's scoring more and hitting more mid-range jumpers, that isn't close to being worthy of an award like this. All the guys I just mentioned either made far more significant strides in their games or went from being role players to franchise guys. Also, for all the improvements Ibaka has made offensively, his rebounding, shot blocking and steals all took a step backward this season. Statistically, he's a more efficient player overall, but his advanced statistical improvements are marginal at best.

maddBat
04-23-2013, 10:13 AM
good for him. he deserves it. went from really good prospect to being the go to guy/#1 option on the pacers. his leadership skills are def growing and he seems he will get better and better.

Swashcuff
04-23-2013, 10:23 AM
good for him. he deserves it. went from really good prospect to being the go to guy/#1 option on the pacers. his leadership skills are def growing and he seems he will get better and better.

And that right there I think is the kicker in the minds of the voters. While Harden went from all star stuck in the 6th man role to borderline superstar PG went from role player to all star and best player on the best defensive team in the league. I think more people expected this sort of play from Harden than those who expected PG24 to play the way he did.

kdspurman
04-23-2013, 10:33 AM
I thought Vasquez had a really nice season as well. He's turned into a really solid PG

Apparently Durant got some votes (2nd and 3rd place) and Melo got a first place vote.

ColtsSpursTerps
04-23-2013, 10:37 AM
Wow. it took until the 3rd page to finally see some mentions of Vasquez.
Would have liked to see him win

king4day
04-23-2013, 11:27 AM
I would have given it to PJ Tucker. Went from out of the league (Europe) to NBA starter :)

Ark45
04-23-2013, 11:36 AM
Good for him, but the award is overrated

Becks2307
04-23-2013, 11:50 AM
I honestly think JR smith improved a lot more than Paul George did BUT George should win this award. Weird logic huh? But for some reason it makes sense in my head. This is a strange award. Personally I would have given it to Vasquez or Harden.

mightybosstone
04-23-2013, 11:58 AM
One thing that I can take away from the MIP discussion that we've had all season long is just how much good young talent there is in the league. You could have made a case for a dozen players who have made huge improvements this season from last year, and that's extremely promising for the next few years. Not only is the talent at the top of the league greater than it has been in over a decade, but the second and third tier guys are getting better, too.