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View Full Version : J.R. Smith to be named 6MOY today



kdspurman
04-22-2013, 10:28 AM
Marc Berman ‏@NYPost_Berman
NBA to name JR Sixth Man today.


InsideHoops.com ‏@InsideHoops
JR Smith to win #NBA Sixth Man of the Year award

.

ATX
04-22-2013, 10:30 AM
Well deserved. Congrats JR

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 10:31 AM
Nice! Congrats JR!

knicksfan42
04-22-2013, 10:31 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-source-j-r-smith-wins-nba-sixth-142029126--spt.html



Well deserved.

D-Leethal
04-22-2013, 10:38 AM
Well deserved !!! First Knick since his alter ego Mr Starks took it home in '97. JR basically yoked this **** out of Crawfords hands this past month.

BigBlueCrew
04-22-2013, 10:38 AM
congrats JR :clap:

D-Leethal
04-22-2013, 10:39 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-source-j-r-smith-wins-nba-sixth-142029126--spt.html



Well deserved.

Coming from one of the biggest JR critics in the Knicks forum, that means a lot!!

Jaded
04-22-2013, 10:39 AM
J.R. Swish!

29$JerZ
04-22-2013, 10:39 AM
Amazing how he stole it from Crawford in the last month.

oak2455
04-22-2013, 10:46 AM
Jr Smith.... Well deserved :smoking:

BklynKnicks3
04-22-2013, 10:47 AM
well deserved.

OceanSpray
04-22-2013, 10:51 AM
Sixth man and check out his salary. Amazing deal for the nyk's.

setman2000
04-22-2013, 10:59 AM
Sixth man and check out his salary. Amazing deal for the nyk's.

That will change soon. How much will he get as a free agent next year...more than a mid-level? Can the Knicks afford him with their big 3 contracts?

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 11:02 AM
That will change soon. How much will he get as a free agent next year...more than a mid-level? Can the Knicks afford him with their big 3 contracts?

Bird Rights baby.

LAcowBOMBER
04-22-2013, 11:05 AM
So right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGT1dQHEd7E

NYJ - NYY
04-22-2013, 11:08 AM
niceeee way to go JR swish/spliff/smooth well deserved!! now lets bring hope the title!!

hope this doesnt go all crazy like the melo winning the scoring title thread

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 11:09 AM
So right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGT1dQHEd7E

So NY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvHMbF908f8

c.c.
04-22-2013, 11:12 AM
J.R. deserves this! I can see him getting a nice contract from someone next year and starting. Kinda James Harden like but not so much though

LAcowBOMBER
04-22-2013, 11:14 AM
So NY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvHMbF908f8

The song is not as good lol

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 11:15 AM
The song is not as good lol

Of course not! Lol

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 11:15 AM
J.R. deserves this! I can see him getting a nice contract from someone next year and starting. Kinda James Harden like but not so much though

From which team do you think?

c.c.
04-22-2013, 11:20 AM
From which team do you think?

Im thinking some lotto team that's gonna let him do what ever wants

b@llhog24
04-22-2013, 11:28 AM
At least he added an award next to his name before his career ended.

c.c.
04-22-2013, 11:30 AM
At least he added an award next to his name before his career ended.

Lol I agree but what was your reason for this statement?

D-Leethal
04-22-2013, 11:38 AM
Lol I agree but what was your reason for this statement?

To be a Knicks troll, why else would he post in a Knicks thread in the NBA forum?

About your point before, do you really see a lottery team spending 10-12M on JR? I don't really see a fit out there for him, and I think theres already some *wink wink* deals going on between Dolan, Woody, JR and his brother. JR was flying to Vegas on Dolan's private jet last offseason, playing golf in the Hamptons with he and Woody, and his brother will be on the roster next season.

On the Mike Woodson show on MSG, Alan Hahn asked Woodson if he was concerned that JR is pricing himself out of the Knicks and Woody looked into the camera twice and said 'JR is not going anywhere, I promise you that'.

All that said, if a team offers him something like 5 years 60 mill and we can only offer 5/30M or 4/24M, than thats going to be awfully tough to convince him to stay even with whatever *wink wink* deals we have going on. This is his best season as a pro, right smack dab in his prime, and his best chance to have a career-making contract.

Mcdoh
04-22-2013, 11:39 AM
:clap:

FYL_McVeezy
04-22-2013, 11:40 AM
Congrats Swish! Much deserved...

Pretty much stole the award from J.Crawford over the last month or so....

Ark45
04-22-2013, 11:42 AM
Well deserved, he definitely deserved it. Hell of a pickup for the Knicks.

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 11:44 AM
At least he added an award next to his name before his career ended.

And this is where the derailment starts...

c.c.
04-22-2013, 11:47 AM
To be a Knicks troll, why else would he post in a Knicks thread in the NBA forum?

About your point before, do you really see a lottery team spending 10-12M on JR? I don't really see a fit out there for him, and I think theres already some *wink wink* deals going on between Dolan, Woody, JR and his brother. JR was flying to Vegas on Dolan's private jet last offseason, playing golf in the Hamptons with he and Woody, and his brother will be on the roster next season.


On the Mike Woodson show on MSG, Alan Hahn asked Woodson if he was concerned that JR is pricing himself out of the Knicks and Woody looked into the camera twice and said 'JR will be a Knick next year, I promise you that'.

All that said, if a team offers him something like 5 years 60 mill and we can only offer 5/30M or 4/24M, than thats going to be awfully tough to convince him to stay even with whatever *wink wink* deals we have going on.

I just assume it because besides Manu Ginobili, all these past 6th MOY ended up on different teams shortly after that season of winning the award

colinskik
04-22-2013, 11:53 AM
JR totally revamped his game this season. Last year it was all, "No, JR, don't take that ridculous step back shot with a hand in your face," and this year it's become the JR show. No joke, there were times this season where he seemed like the Knicks' best player.

Ark45
04-22-2013, 11:55 AM
He was certainly one of their better ones.

He115ing
04-22-2013, 11:57 AM
Sweet! He deserved it.

Captain Moroni
04-22-2013, 11:59 AM
Jr and Woodson have a mutual respect for each other. JR Smith will be a knick for years to come congrats on a great season.

justinnum1
04-22-2013, 12:01 PM
Well deserved.

lvlheaded
04-22-2013, 12:10 PM
Thank god for early Bird Rights! Great year for JR, he stole this out of JCrossovers hands

akesh99
04-22-2013, 12:18 PM
Always been one of my favorite players, glad to see him finally put it all together. Great season, well deserved!

Stinkyoutsider
04-22-2013, 12:21 PM
Well earned. He deserved it with his play this year. I'd say he's the 2nd option on the team after Melo...

I can't remember for sure, but wasn't this the guy who didn't feel appreciated by the Knicks during last year's offseason? I bet you he feels it now!

KniCks4LiFe
04-22-2013, 12:22 PM
POS-EEEEEEEEEEE! :cool:

Yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

#Knickstape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcxpcAZqMo8)

TeamSeattle
04-22-2013, 12:26 PM
He deserved it this year, played his *** off at the end of the season.

D-Leethal
04-22-2013, 12:27 PM
So easy to root for this guy, he doesn't feed you bull ****, he speaks from the heart, he plays from the heart and wears that **** on his sleeve every time he steps on the court, he cares deeply about winning and takes losses harder than anyone else on our squad, hes loyal as **** to friends, family and teammates. He's got a personality that resonates with NYers. Dude is a perfect fit in NYC and fans, while hard on him when he plays like an idiot, seem to truly love this guy. Gets a standing O nearly everytime he gets off the bench now.

When you hear the phrase 'he would run through a brick wall for his coach', that pretty much epitomizes the Smith-Woodson connection.

SugeKnight
04-22-2013, 12:32 PM
Jack and Crawford had great seasons, but congrats to Smith for the award

b@llhog24
04-22-2013, 12:39 PM
Lol I agree but what was your reason for this statement?

Cause he had the talent to be an all-star.


And this is where the derailment starts...

Why so sensitive?

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 12:43 PM
Cause he had the talent to be an all-star.



Why so sensitive?

Not being sensitive, but why try to **** up the thread?

xxplayerxx23
04-22-2013, 12:45 PM
Cause he had the talent to be an all-star.



Why so sensitive?

Lol I didn't get what was so bad about the statement anyway haha, good job jr now play better then you did in game 1 or I will ship you to the bobcats

NYJ - NYY
04-22-2013, 12:47 PM
Cause he had the talent to be an all-star.



Why so sensitive?

its a knicks thread... theres always derailment

Blitzace137
04-22-2013, 12:55 PM
I thought Crawford had it locked until J.R. went crazy the last month. After that last month it was an obvious choice. Congrats to J.R.

QueensG_718
04-22-2013, 01:00 PM
So easy to root for this guy, he doesn't feed you bull ****, he speaks from the heart, he plays from the heart and wears that **** on his sleeve every time he steps on the court, he cares deeply about winning and takes losses harder than anyone else on our squad, hes loyal as **** to friends, family and teammates. He's got a personality that resonates with NYers. Dude is a perfect fit in NYC and fans, while hard on him when he plays like an idiot, seem to truly love this guy. Gets a standing O nearly everytime he gets off the bench now.

When you hear the phrase 'he would run through a brick wall for his coach', that pretty much epitomizes the Smith-Woodson connection.

I agree 100%. Hit the nail on the head my dude

b@llhog24
04-22-2013, 01:04 PM
Not being sensitive, but why try to **** up the thread?

Except I'm not "trying to **** up the thread" I'm making a statement about JR's career as a whole.


[/B]

its a knicks thread... theres always derailment

It's a JR Smith thread, he just happens to play on the Knicks.

NYKnickFanatic
04-22-2013, 01:06 PM
Except I'm not "trying to **** up the thread" I'm making a statement about JR's career as a whole.



It's a JR Smith thread, he just happens to play on the Knicks.

Ok.

knicksfan42
04-22-2013, 01:44 PM
Coming from one of the biggest JR critics in the Knicks forum, that means a lot!!


He fundamentally changed his offensive game. He went from chucking contested fadeaway 2s to taking the ball inside for good looks. His FG% went up to 48% in April. Hopefully this change is permanent, because if it is we might have a legit 2nd-3rd option on our hands.

NYJ - NYY
04-22-2013, 02:13 PM
Except I'm not "trying to **** up the thread" I'm making a statement about JR's career as a whole.



It's a JR Smith thread, he just happens to play on the Knicks.

pretty sure him playing on the knicks coincides with the thread being about the knicks...just like the melo thread last week... alotttttta haters

WAYNEBO
04-22-2013, 02:13 PM
To be a Knicks troll, why else would he post in a Knicks thread in the NBA forum?

About your point before, do you really see a lottery team spending 10-12M on JR? I don't really see a fit out there for him, and I think theres already some *wink wink* deals going on between Dolan, Woody, JR and his brother. JR was flying to Vegas on Dolan's private jet last offseason, playing golf in the Hamptons with he and Woody, and his brother will be on the roster next season.

On the Mike Woodson show on MSG, Alan Hahn asked Woodson if he was concerned that JR is pricing himself out of the Knicks and Woody looked into the camera twice and said 'JR is not going anywhere, I promise you that'.

All that said, if a team offers him something like 5 years 60 mill and we can only offer 5/30M or 4/24M, than thats going to be awfully tough to convince him to stay even with whatever *wink wink* deals we have going on. This is his best season as a pro, right smack dab in his prime, and his best chance to have a career-making contract.

Well said D.

TheNumber37
04-22-2013, 02:33 PM
We're going to have to offer him 4 years 20 mil with a player option on the third... with mad incentives. He's still a bargain at 5 mil per and should be making closer to 8 mil...
1 mil dollar for 2nd 6th man
500k for all star
500k for shooting above 40% from 3
500k for shooting above 45% from the floor
500k for shooting above 85% from the line

That's an extra 2 mil possibly earned on his own play.
And He hasn't even really started to get endorsements yet, where he can really see the money.

AI
04-22-2013, 02:38 PM
J.R. deserves this! I can see him getting a nice contract from someone next year and starting. Kinda James Harden like but not so much though

He already plays starters minutes for the Knicks and we have his bird rights. The pipe king is staying.

ryang
04-22-2013, 02:45 PM
He deserves it.

yungincome
04-22-2013, 02:48 PM
Spliff :smoking:
:dance:

b@llhog24
04-22-2013, 02:49 PM
[/B]

pretty sure him playing on the knicks coincides with the thread being about the knicks...just like the melo thread last week... alotttttta haters

Except I was a JR and Melo fan long before half of your fanbase, so I don't give a ****.

KnickaBocka.44
04-22-2013, 02:53 PM
J.R. won in a landslide. 72/121 first place votes, more than double that of Crawford who finished second with 31.

NYJ - NYY
04-22-2013, 03:10 PM
Except I was a JR and Melo fan long before half of your fanbase, so I don't give a ****.

cool i guess? **** u so mad at guy?

GiantsSwaGG
04-22-2013, 03:17 PM
Well deserved

Shammyguy3
04-22-2013, 03:17 PM
I thought Jarret Jack should have won this. Smith played really well yes, but his efficiency as a whole was very sub par while having the 2nd highest usage in his career and on the team respectively.

b@llhog24
04-22-2013, 03:20 PM
cool i guess? **** u so mad at guy?

Not mad. It's the internet and I don't know you, don't see the correlation.

ManningToTyree
04-22-2013, 03:22 PM
Jr swishhhhhh

Kashmir13579
04-22-2013, 03:30 PM
Well deserved.

SteBO
04-22-2013, 03:43 PM
Despite still being inefficient, he's filled his role really well and went through an unbelievable stretch to keep the Knicks above water while they were dealing with injuries. JR deserves this award. Congrats.

NYSPORTSALLDAY
04-22-2013, 04:06 PM
:clap:

NYSpirit1
04-22-2013, 04:34 PM
I thought Jarret Jack should have won this. Smith played really well yes, but his efficiency as a whole was very sub par while having the 2nd highest usage in his career and on the team respectively.

Why are people so anal about this crap? They want guys to never touch the ball, never shoot but somehow average 20, 10 and shoot 60%. Only at that point are they good enough.

Wake up. Someone on the Knicks needs to score. They won 54 games and are the 2 seed with Melo and JR havin high usage rates. Get a clue.

FraziersKnicks
04-22-2013, 04:34 PM
:dance:

Shammyguy3
04-22-2013, 05:02 PM
Why are people so anal about this crap? They want guys to never touch the ball, never shoot but somehow average 20, 10 and shoot 60%. Only at that point are they good enough.

Wake up. Someone on the Knicks needs to score. They won 54 games and are the 2 seed with Melo and JR havin high usage rates. Get a clue.

You're obviously the one that needs to get a clue. Nowhere did I say JR Smith needs to average 20/10 while shooting 60%. He does however need to get those points more efficiently. The Knicks scored 54 games due to Carmelo Anthony having a career year and the Knicks as a whole being one of the greatest three point shooting teams of all time.

JR Smith can have as high of a usage rate as he wants, but if he wants to be the most deserving to win an award like this when guys like Jamal Crawford and Jarret Jack had higher efficiencies (with JC having an equal usage rate), then he needs to be more efficient offensively.

It's not hard to score 18 points when you take 15.6fga and 3.9fta per game. That's my point, he was deserving but not nearly as deserving as some make him out to be.

javaid64
04-22-2013, 05:08 PM
You're obviously the one that needs to get a clue. Nowhere did I say JR Smith needs to average 20/10 while shooting 60%. He does however need to get those points more efficiently. The Knicks scored 54 games due to Carmelo Anthony having a career year and the Knicks as a whole being one of the greatest three point shooting teams of all time.

JR Smith can have as high of a usage rate as he wants, but if he wants to be the most deserving to win an award like this when guys like Jamal Crawford and Jarret Jack had higher efficiencies (with JC having an equal usage rate), then he needs to be more efficient offensively.

It's not hard to score 18 points when you take 15.6fga and 3.9fta per game. That's my point, he was deserving but not nearly as deserving as some make him out to be.

2nd option(1st with melo out for more than a dozen game) on a 54 win team. he was more important and contributed more wins than any of the other sixth men. Results are more important than stats and he had very good results

KnickaBocka.44
04-22-2013, 05:09 PM
You're obviously the one that needs to get a clue. Nowhere did I say JR Smith needs to average 20/10 while shooting 60%. He does however need to get those points more efficiently. The Knicks scored 54 games due to Carmelo Anthony having a career year and the Knicks as a whole being one of the greatest three point shooting teams of all time.

JR Smith can have as high of a usage rate as he wants, but if he wants to be the most deserving to win an award like this when guys like Jamal Crawford and Jarret Jack had higher efficiencies (with JC having an equal usage rate), then he needs to be more efficient offensively.

It's not hard to score 18 points when you take 15.6fga and 3.9fta per game. That's my point, he was deserving but not nearly as deserving as some make him out to be.

If he would have put up the numbers he did with greater efficiency he would have been an all-star, let alone 6th man. Exclude efficiency and J.R. has equal or greater numbers in every category than his competitors (with the exception of assists over Jack) and plays a higher level of D then Crawford at least. Honestly, after looking at the efficiency numbers, Jack isn't even significantly better than J.R.

Efficiency is important, but its not everything.

javaid64
04-22-2013, 05:11 PM
and if you are looking at stats JR smith had a higher PER than any of the other viable players. Rarely turned the ball over, defended really well, rebounded well for a guard and more important won a ton of games and a secondery option.

Missing56&33
04-22-2013, 05:22 PM
Well deserved....hopefully he can take his game to the next level in the playoffs.

Guppyfighter
04-22-2013, 05:27 PM
Jamal Crawford or Jarret Jack should have won it.

trini_knickfan
04-22-2013, 06:42 PM
So congrats JR

JEDean89
04-22-2013, 07:22 PM
the reason why JR won over Jamal and Jack is because he was the only one of the three to actually do something other than score. He averaged 5 rebounds and almost 3 assits, Jarret and Jamal's other numbers paled in comparison. yes Jack shot a higher % but JR did more than shoot so he deserves it. just watched his interview where when asked if he wants to be a knick for life he said absolutely. jeremy did the same thing and we all know how that worked out. still i think we can offer him around 6 mil a year for 2 years after which we can give him a good contract. If we could get the following deals in the 2015 summer, when pretty much everyone is a FA we will have a great chance to expand this title window a few extra years.

Tyson - 10 mil a year, he will be around 33 when his contract is up, don't want to overpay him.
Melo - 22 mil a year, melo has another max contract in his career, hopefully we don't have to pay him like kobe but if we win a chip with him, it would be worth it.
JR - 12 mil a year, probably too much for a guy who shoots in the low 40's but if he can do what he's done the last couple months for a full year he could be looking at a max contract.
Shumps - 5-7 mil a year, about right for a defensive stalwart but obviously will depend on his progressions the next 2 seasons.
Felton - 5 mil a year, Glen knows he wants to play in NY and he will also be in his 30's after this contract, no need to pay him closer to 10.

Then we would also have 1st round rookies, this years and 2015's giving us 7 players at a salary of 54 mil. Maybe if Amare stays healthy we can pay him the MLE, he certainly owes Dolan after being payed 100 mil and has played in 2? playoff games, maybe 3 in the last 3 postseasons.

Then we fill in the gaps, hopefully Ray becomes the backup PG or we get someone like Brendon Jennings somehow and start them both. If this team can win a chip with Amare making 20 mil a year and not contributing it will me a miracle but it will also make me feel really good about this core going foward. Everyone on this team is either severely overpaid or severely underpaid. Then surround the team with vets and maybe some more young guys and we have a nice team for years to come.

Keeping JR on this team is the difference of becoming a perennial contender for the next 5 years at least or being a 50 win, 2nd round exit, 2010 atlanta hawks team. If we do keep JR I will be ecastatic. I am one of his biggest critics but honestly this is the best JR we have seen yet and there's no reason why he can't improve. If we had this JR all season we could have won 60 games even with the injuries.

D-Leethal
04-22-2013, 07:23 PM
You're obviously the one that needs to get a clue. Nowhere did I say JR Smith needs to average 20/10 while shooting 60%. He does however need to get those points more efficiently. The Knicks scored 54 games due to Carmelo Anthony having a career year and the Knicks as a whole being one of the greatest three point shooting teams of all time.

JR Smith can have as high of a usage rate as he wants, but if he wants to be the most deserving to win an award like this when guys like Jamal Crawford and Jarret Jack had higher efficiencies (with JC having an equal usage rate), then he needs to be more efficient offensively.

It's not hard to score 18 points when you take 15.6fga and 3.9fta per game. That's my point, he was deserving but not nearly as deserving as some make him out to be.

Being efficient does not equal being a better player or even being a better scorer or being more important to your team.

If you watched the Knicks all season long, you would know without JR Smith were probably not even a .500 team.

When did efficiency become of such supreme importance in the world of basketball? Its like people don't even look at anything else anymore. Why even watch the games? If Melo is an inefficient star, JR is an inefficient sidekick, Felton is an inefficient PG, where did we pull 54 wins out of our *** from? The efficiency of which you score is only a small part of what it means to be a basketball player. A lot of times the guys who mean MORE to their team, the guys who's teammates rely on them more heavily, are going to score inefficiently. Jarret Jack is like the 5th option on your team, of course he has an easier time getting his buckets.

If Jarret Jack was asked to shoulder the load that JR is asked to shoulder on a nightly basis, his efficiency sure would take a hit, and he would not be a capable #2 option (with 16 games as the #1 option), on a 54 win team.

oak2455
04-22-2013, 07:49 PM
Jamal Crawford or Jarret Jack should have won it.

Wrong try again

Guppyfighter
04-22-2013, 08:28 PM
Being efficient does not equal being a better player or even being a better scorer or being more important to your team.

If you watched the Knicks all season long, you would know without JR Smith were probably not even a .500 team.

When did efficiency become of such supreme importance in the world of basketball? Its like people don't even look at anything else anymore. Why even watch the games? If Melo is an inefficient star, JR is an inefficient sidekick, Felton is an inefficient PG, where did we pull 54 wins out of our *** from? The efficiency of which you score is only a small part of what it means to be a basketball player. A lot of times the guys who mean MORE to their team, the guys who's teammates rely on them more heavily, are going to score inefficiently. Jarret Jack is like the 5th option on your team, of course he has an easier time getting his buckets.

If Jarret Jack was asked to shoulder the load that JR is asked to shoulder on a nightly basis, his efficiency sure would take a hit, and he would not be a capable #2 option (with 16 games as the #1 option), on a 54 win team.

Melo is not inefficient, JR Smith is inefficient.

Jarret Jack has carried the Warriors if you think that actually means anything. He had a 30 point 10 assist game. He was simply amazing for a stretch of games.


Jamal Crawford was the best scorer of the group.

UPRock
04-22-2013, 09:04 PM
Well earned.

D-Leethal
04-22-2013, 09:17 PM
Melo is not inefficient, JR Smith is inefficient.

Jarret Jack has carried the Warriors if you think that actually means anything. He had a 30 point 10 assist game. He was simply amazing for a stretch of games.


Jamal Crawford was the best scorer of the group.

Jarret Jack is the 3rd best guard on his own team. He's the 4th/5th option. His production is a bonus, JR's production is a necessity for the Knicks. Besides Felton who we can all agree is by definition 'medicore' in every sense of the word, we don't have a second weapon who can create offense. Every single other person on our team needs offense manufactured and spoonfed for them. I know, I know, you don't have a stat that can illustrate that clearly, so I don't expect it to make sense to you.

Guppyfighter
04-22-2013, 09:21 PM
It is a problem that no one on the Knicks can score consistently other than Melo, but that doesn't mean JR Smith is better than Jack or Crawford. He is arguably more important, but that doesn't mean he is better. This award is about the best sixth man. JR Smith isn't.

Jack and Jamal both are good at isoing.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 12:03 PM
It is a problem that no one on the Knicks can score consistently other than Melo, but that doesn't mean JR Smith is better than Jack or Crawford. He is arguably more important, but that doesn't mean he is better. This award is about the best sixth man. JR Smith isn't.

Jack and Jamal both are good at isoing.

And Jack or Crawford being more efficient doesn't mean they are better.

JR Smith finished #2 in the league for attempted jumpers with 4 or less seconds on the clock. Melo was #4. Thats a product of not having many scoring options on the floor, and anyone who watches the Knicks will tell you that, and that kills his efficiency, and your efficiency stats will not tell you that.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 12:05 PM
Chris Herring @HerringWSJ about 1 hour ago
Random: J.R. Smith & Melo finished No. 2 & No. 4 in NBA in terms of most attempted jumpers w/ 4 seconds or less on shot clock, per Synergy

Chris Herring @HerringWSJ about 1 hour ago
I point that out bc FG% shouldnt be the end-all when it comes to stats. Anthony & JR take 5 shots combined with less than 4 ticks left.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 12:05 PM
Chris Herring @HerringWSJ about 1 hour ago
Random: J.R. Smith & Melo finished No. 2 & No. 4 in NBA in terms of most attempted jumpers w/ 4 seconds or less on shot clock, per Synergy

Chris Herring @HerringWSJ about 1 hour ago
I point that out bc FG% shouldnt be the end-all when it comes to stats. Anthony & JR take 5 shots combined with less than 4 ticks left.

Becks2307
04-23-2013, 12:12 PM
Lol you guys are ridic. JR smith was clearly the 6th man of the year.

Im not a big anti-efficiency guy but holy **** has it changed the world of basketball. I am 10000% positive that Iverson would have been Crucified had we cared this much about effiiciency back in 2001 etc.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 12:24 PM
Lol you guys are ridic. JR smith was clearly the 6th man of the year.

Im not a big anti-efficiency guy but holy **** has it changed the world of basketball. I am 10000% positive that Iverson would have been Crucified had we cared this much about effiiciency back in 2001 etc.

Its like Efficiency became THE go-to stat to rank players, people don't even think about defense, intangibles, team dynamic, skillsets, its 'Lets play the game in a vaccum, compare efficiency stats and determine the better player!'

The funny thing is the efficiency brigade believes they are progressing the analysis of the game when they are just dumbing it down and turning it into a numbers game, trying to eliminate or simply ignoring the parts of the game you can't weigh with numbers, or the impact certain teammates have on other teammates, how certain skillsets mesh with other skillsets.

Who needs to discuss or understand the unique, intertwined TEAM dynamics of the game when you can just look at dudes individual advanced statistics and have them tell you everything? These individual statistics try to equate a TEAM to a 'SUM OF INDIVIDUAL PARTS', when you can't break it down like that, this is NOT baseball, those individual parts all have an impact on each other, almost a see-saw effect where an action from player A causes a reaction from player B, and player A and player B's statistics will change for better or for worse as a result. If player A did not play with play B, that statistical change might never occur. The production of each individual is tied to certain dynamics and aspects that only occur within the team.

This isolated 'advanced' analysis of players is ruining the way people view the game. All your doing is isolating aspects of the game that are not meant to be isolated.

TrueFan420
04-23-2013, 01:04 PM
the reason why JR won over Jamal and Jack is because he was the only one of the three to actually do something other than score. He averaged 5 rebounds and almost 3 assits, Jarret and Jamal's other numbers paled in comparison. yes Jack shot a higher % but JR did more than shoot so he deserves it.
.
Um thats just flat out false. Jack averaged 5.5 assists and 3 rebounds. Clearly you don't know what your talking about if you think all jack did was shoot.

Chronz
04-23-2013, 01:09 PM
Um thats just flat out false. Jack averaged 5.5 assists and 3 rebounds. Clearly you don't know what your talking about if you think all jack did was shoot.

lol I saw that and was like WTF? Thank you for sparing me the trouble

noodle
04-23-2013, 01:11 PM
Um thats just flat out false. Jack averaged 5.5 assists and 3 rebounds. Clearly you don't know what your talking about if you think all jack did was shoot.

I think Jarrett Jackdidnt win it, is because hes a blowjob.

Chronz
04-23-2013, 01:14 PM
Lol you guys are ridic. JR smith was clearly the 6th man of the year.
Based on wat? He was clearly not in a class by himself, the other candidates were all well deserving in their own right.


Im not a big anti-efficiency guy but holy **** has it changed the world of basketball. I am 10000% positive that Iverson would have been Crucified had we cared this much about effiiciency back in 2001 etc.

Its only natural that the more you learn about the game, it should shape the way you view it.
And AI was taking **** for his inefficiency long before APBR.

Chronz
04-23-2013, 01:45 PM
Chris Herring @HerringWSJ about 1 hour ago
Random: J.R. Smith & Melo finished No. 2 & No. 4 in NBA in terms of most attempted jumpers w/ 4 seconds or less on shot clock, per Synergy

Chris Herring @HerringWSJ about 1 hour ago
I point that out bc FG% shouldnt be the end-all when it comes to stats. Anthony & JR take 5 shots combined with less than 4 ticks left.

Remarkably, Crawford actually gets more efficient the later in the shot clock he is, he scores more pts with 3 seconds left even tho Smith takes more of those shots.

Smith is excellent in transition, Crawford isn't the runner he used to be so he settles for open J's more often at that point, but hes better in the half court.


Check out the splits for all 3


J-Crossover


Secs. Att. eFG% Pts
0-10 35% .492 4.7
11-15 26% .511 3.6
16-20 23% .504 3.2
21+ 15% .569 2.3
Crunch 38% .529 5.4


Jack of all trades


Secs. Att. eFG% Pts
0-10 37% .514 4.1
11-15 26% .507 2.8
16-20 24% .510 2.7
21+ 13% .423 1.2
Crunch 37% .480 3.9

Tatted Idiot


Secs. Att. eFG% Pts
0-10 34% .520 5.6
11-15 26% .503 4.1
16-20 22% .500 3.4
21+ 18% .368 2.0
Crunch 40% .441 5.5

Chronz
04-23-2013, 01:49 PM
Still tho, I just looked at the numbers, Smith was prolly the best choice, I'd still much rather have Crawford but both are pretty streaky.

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 01:54 PM
The reason JR and Melo take the most shots under four seconds (like Rudy Gay has for under 7 seconds) is not because they are bailing out their teammates. It's because the offense has little ball movement and more often than not you get an iso Melo or an iso JR. And that's all fine and good, but Jamal is better than JR and is a better isoer at that. He may be less important to his team, but he is ****ing better and should have won.

WAYNEBO
04-23-2013, 03:40 PM
Wrong again. Much like your 1-dimensional brain, Crawford is a 1-dimensional shooter. JR can shoot the 3, baby jump or take it to the hole with authority against the best defensive bigs in the league trying to stop him. He can board better, defend better and pass better than Jamal. His only weakness is taking bad shots, but when you are as good and confident as SWISH is, there is no bad shot.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 03:53 PM
The reason JR and Melo take the most shots under four seconds (like Rudy Gay has for under 7 seconds) is not because they are bailing out their teammates. It's because the offense has little ball movement and more often than not you get an iso Melo or an iso JR. And that's all fine and good, but Jamal is better than JR and is a better isoer at that. He may be less important to his team, but he is ****ing better and should have won.

Why do we have the 3rd best offense in the league if all we do is iso our low % scorers and we don't move the ball?

Yes, 90% of the time its because they are bailing out there teammates. Anyone who watches the Knicks will attest to that. Ball movement does nothing if you don't have anyone who can break down the D. We have 2 of them - Melo and JR - so more often than not the ball movement circles right back to them to seal the deal on the possession.

What makes Jamal better outside of his ability to score slightly more efficiently? JR has him beat everywhere else. Going by the last month or 2, he's got him beat handily in the efficiency department as well.

Becks2307
04-23-2013, 04:05 PM
Lol Melo wins scoring title - he's a ball hogging, inefficient chucker
Jr smith wins 6th man - should have been Jack and Crawford

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 04:20 PM
Lol Melo wins scoring title - he's a ball hogging, inefficient chucker
Jr smith wins 6th man - should have been Jack and Crawford

On top of that, the only play our braindead coach knows how to run is iso, we don't play defense, and our PG is a fat chucking beaver.

Thats quite a unit to win 54 games and grab the 2 seed, while taking out pretty much every elite team in the league at least once along the way.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 04:25 PM
Still tho, I just looked at the numbers, Smith was prolly the best choice, I'd still much rather have Crawford but both are pretty streaky.

You'd 'much rather' have Crawford why? What else does he do better than Smith? Is this the National Efficiency Association? Is that the only aspect of the game you even acknowledge? Its the only aspect of the game you ever seem to mention.

How about the other 90% of the game? You know - defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles, passing, athleticism, speed, ability to switch on bigger players/guard multiple positions, cover ground etc...

Oh yea, I forgot. More efficient shooter = better. Nothing else matters here. Smith takes a dump on Jamal as an all around basketball player. Jamal has way more major weaknesses than Smith does. His D might be the worst in the league at his position.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 04:29 PM
Wait nevermind, we can't discuss attributes that you don't track on spreadsheets here.

NYKnickFanatic
04-23-2013, 04:32 PM
You'd 'much rather' have Crawford why? What else does he do better than Smith? Is this the National Efficiency Association? Is that the only aspect of the game you even acknowledge? Its the only aspect of the game you ever seem to mention.

How about the other 90% of the game? You know - defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles, passing, athleticism, speed, ability to switch on bigger players/guard multiple positions, cover ground etc...

Oh yea, I forgot. More efficient shooter = better. Nothing else matters here. Smith takes a dump on Jamal as an all around basketball player. Jamal has way more major weaknesses than Smith does. His D might be the worst in the league at his position.


Wait nevermind, we can't discuss attributes that you don't track on spreadsheets here.

:clap:

Honestly, I don't know why you even bother man. Lol

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 04:39 PM
Why do we have the 3rd best offense in the league if all we do is iso our low % scorers and we don't move the ball?

Yes, 90% of the time its because they are bailing out there teammates. Anyone who watches the Knicks will attest to that. Ball movement does nothing if you don't have anyone who can break down the D. We have 2 of them - Melo and JR - so more often than not the ball movement circles right back to them to seal the deal on the possession.

What makes Jamal better outside of his ability to score slightly more efficiently? JR has him beat everywhere else. Going by the last month or 2, he's got him beat handily in the efficiency department as well.


There is a reason why every team Chandler goes to has really good offensive efficiency. He cleans up on the glass with putbacks. Low turnover rate and a dude constantly putting the ball in the hoop after a miss.


Lol "Efficiency doesn't matter at all! Except unless you check this extremely small sample, about ten percent of the entire regular season where JR Smith is better than Crawford."

Okay. Try watching the game, Dleethal.

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 04:40 PM
You'd 'much rather' have Crawford why? What else does he do better than Smith? Is this the National Efficiency Association? Is that the only aspect of the game you even acknowledge? Its the only aspect of the game you ever seem to mention.

How about the other 90% of the game? You know - defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles, passing, athleticism, speed, ability to switch on bigger players/guard multiple positions, cover ground etc...

Oh yea, I forgot. More efficient shooter = better. Nothing else matters here. Smith takes a dump on Jamal as an all around basketball player. Jamal has way more major weaknesses than Smith does. His D might be the worst in the league at his position.

If we are talking about all around game, Jack has JR Smith beat.

Offense goes to Jamal
All things go to Jack of all Trades Jack. Kind of why he has that nickname, dude.

oak2455
04-23-2013, 04:43 PM
DMF'S is back!!!!!!

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 04:46 PM
There is a reason why every team Chandler goes to has really good offensive efficiency. He cleans up on the glass with putbacks. Low turnover rate and a dude constantly putting the ball in the hoop after a miss.


Lol "Efficiency doesn't matter at all! Except unless you check this extremely small sample, about ten percent of the entire regular season where JR Smith is better than Crawford."

Okay. Try watching the game, Dleethal.

LOL. Chandler offsets the fact that Melo is a ballhog chucker, Smith is a chucking cancer, Felton is a fat chucking beaver, we don't pass the ball and all we run our iso's for our low efficient chuckers.

But Tyson and his 4 FGM OFFSET ALL THAT? Are you ****ing kidding me?

AND YOUR ASKING ME TO WATCH THE GAMES??

Tyson and his 1-2 putbacks are the reason we are the 3rd most efficient offense DESPITE all of the above????

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

What formula did you create to derive that nonsense from? And your asking me to watch the games?

How about our best offensive stretch of the season coming while Tyson was out a month?

How about that chief?


If we are talking about all around game, Jack has JR Smith beat.

Offense goes to Jamal
All things go to Jack of all Trades Jack. Kind of why he has that nickname, dude.

Those that matter, do not agree with you. I'd say nobody outside of 3 California homers on this site do.

First place votes don't lie, it wasn't even close.

D-Leethal
04-23-2013, 04:48 PM
lol, Tyson Chandler is the reason for our top 3 offense. My god, such depths the efficiency brigade will go to defend their beloved stats.

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 04:50 PM
Yes: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html

There is a reason why Chandler has the highest offensive synergy in the league and why the Knicks suffer a lot offensively when he is off the court.

Melo is not a chucker by any means. He is very efficient. Felton is okay at running the offense despite his broken J. Knicks need him.

I am sure the Knicks very much need JR Smith to create offense considering their offensive schemes, but that doesn't mean he is better than Jack or Crawford.

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 04:57 PM
lol, Tyson Chandler is the reason for our top 3 offense. My god, such depths the efficiency brigade will go to defend their beloved stats.


If you're going to defend the amazing year both JR and 'Melo had, at least do it right.

Obviously we both agree JR deserves the award, but as usual the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I told you weeks ago that without Tyson, Novak, Kidd, etc. all doing there respective offensive duties, and doing them efficiently, Carmelo and JR don't get away with half the **** they do and still win games. You'd rather give all the credit to 'Melo and JR out of some misguided fear of any stat that isn't PPG.

Guppyfighter is making short work out of you because you lack discipline.

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 04:58 PM
Yes: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html

There is a reason why Chandler has the highest offensive synergy in the league and why the Knicks suffer a lot offensively when he is off the court.

Melo is not a chucker by any means. He is very efficient. Felton is okay at running the offense despite his broken J. Knicks need him.

I am sure the Knicks very much need JR Smith to create offense considering their offensive schemes, but that doesn't mean he is better than Jack or Crawford.

Chandler is immensely underrated in the Knicks forum. I don't know why.

Guppyfighter
04-23-2013, 04:58 PM
I actually like JR Smith, but I get the impression he thinks I hate him.

:shrug:

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 05:04 PM
I actually like JR Smith, but I get the impression he thinks I hate him.

:shrug:
I hated JR going into the season but he made me understand after his second buzzer-beater.

ztilzer31
04-23-2013, 05:05 PM
Well deserved. Really enjoyed watching J.R. Smith this year. He turned into an all star caliber player IMO.

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 05:14 PM
Yes: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html

There is a reason why Chandler has the highest offensive synergy in the league and why the Knicks suffer a lot offensively when he is off the court.

I was following you up until this:

Melo is not a chucker by any means. He is very efficient. Felton is okay at running the offense despite his broken J. Knicks need him.

Felton has been nothing short of a knock down three point shooter for 2/3 of the season. (he injured his shooting hand before the allstar break)

The Knicks superb three point shooting and ball movement from Pablo and Kidd compliment JR and 'Melo greatly.

Chronz
04-23-2013, 05:17 PM
Wait nevermind, we can't discuss attributes that you don't track on spreadsheets here.

Apparently we cant have a personal opinion either, I already admitted JR was the objective decision.

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 05:20 PM
Still tho, I just looked at the numbers, Smith was prolly the best choice, I'd still much rather have Crawford but both are pretty streaky.

So before the season, when i told you Crawford was a sure-fire pick-up for the Clips.. Was i right or was i right? :D

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 05:24 PM
You'd 'much rather' have Crawford why? What else does he do better than Smith? Is this the National Efficiency Association? Is that the only aspect of the game you even acknowledge? Its the only aspect of the game you ever seem to mention.

How about the other 90% of the game? You know - defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles, passing, athleticism, speed, ability to switch on bigger players/guard multiple positions, cover ground etc...

Oh yea, I forgot. More efficient shooter = better. Nothing else matters here. Smith takes a dump on Jamal as an all around basketball player. Jamal has way more major weaknesses than Smith does. His D might be the worst in the league at his position.
Half of the hatred you spew is raw, uncut homerism.

If Craw was still with the Knicks... Oh man....

Act like you aren't a fan of Jamal Crawford.

Chronz
04-23-2013, 05:33 PM
You'd 'much rather' have Crawford why?
From my 6th man, I like his comboguard abilities more ( On/Off the ball )


What else does he do better than Smith?
Its his combination of skills that I prefer, I find them more conducive to winning. Prolly my Clipper bias based on how well he fits with us. Our team wouldn't be better off with JR but I can see other teams benefitting more. Its just the way I like to see my teams constructed. Personally, I dont find JR to be all that of a consistent performer against the best.


Is this the National Efficiency Association?
Yes?


Is that the only aspect of the game you even acknowledge?
Obviously not, or else I wouldn't have said JR was the right choice upon looking at the numbers.



Its the only aspect of the game you ever seem to mention.
Dont care what you think, only what you can prove.



How about the other 90% of the game? You know - defense, rebounding, hustle, intangibles, passing, athleticism, speed, ability to switch on bigger players/guard multiple positions, cover ground etc...
LOL I dont worry about things like athleticism and speed (arent they the same thing?) unless it translates onto the court. I worry about the results of your gifts, not the simple fact that you have them. And in terms of intangibles, I would need to be swayed by a much stronger argument than those provided. Basically I have zero confidence in your 90% figure being anything more than a pretentious guess.


Oh yea, I forgot. More efficient shooter = better.
Strawman arguments wont help you here.


Nothing else matters here. Smith takes a dump on Jamal as an all around basketball player.
Yea but Im not arguing whos the better all-around player, just who I would rather have on my nonexistent team. And being a better all-around player wouldn't make one more valuable/better.


Jamal has way more major weaknesses than Smith does. His D might be the worst in the league at his position.

Yea its pretty bad, but in defense of his defense, he truly has put forth the effort.

Chronz
04-23-2013, 05:37 PM
So before the season, when i told you Crawford was a sure-fire pick-up for the Clips.. Was i right or was i right? :D
Who would have thunk a 33 year old Crawford would finally put in some serious off-season work after such a miserable season amidts a steady decline.

In my defense, I did admit hes the guy whos best worth the gamble, compared to Odom/Hill. I just really wanted Ray Allen.

Kashmir13579
04-23-2013, 06:00 PM
Who would have thunk a 33 year old Crawford would finally put in some serious off-season work after such a miserable season amidts a steady decline.

In my defense, I did admit hes the guy whos best worth the gamble, compared to Odom/Hill. I just really wanted Ray Allen.

Playing with greatness tends to bring out the best in high-iq players.

oak2455
04-23-2013, 08:01 PM
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah