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j-bay
04-14-2013, 10:42 PM
Peter Gammons @pgammo
Team after team--from Boston to Mets to Rangers and on and on--have checked in with Miami on Stanton, with "not interested" response from Ms

If the Marlins decide to trade him at the deadline, at least we know the Sox might be interested.

AI
04-14-2013, 10:56 PM
Stanton is exactly what we need. Young middle of the order bat to compliment Ortiz and push Napoli and WMB down a slot. Would basically make our lineup perfect as far as where everybody should be hitting goes.

-Lavigne43-
04-14-2013, 11:13 PM
Meaningless thread. The Red Sox would be idiots not to ask. They would also be idiots to trade their entire farm for one player, we don't have the major league team for that. If he were to get traded, which I highly doubt he would, it would be to the Rangers who have the prospects and the major league roster where it makes sense.

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-14-2013, 11:14 PM
Meaningless thread. The Red Sox would be idiots not to ask. They would also be idiots to trade their entire farm for one player, we don't have the major league team for that. If he were to get traded, which I highly doubt he would, it would be to the Rangers who have the prospects and the major league roster where it makes sense.

I love Mike Stanton (**** Giancarlo), but as Lavy just said trading half the farm for him is asinine.

Celtic AL
04-14-2013, 11:52 PM
This tweet is from Old man Peter Gammons. He's usually wrong. I mean he did say the redsox were very interested in Andre Ethier & Ryan Braun. both rumors turned out to be bogus.

Station 13
04-14-2013, 11:56 PM
Long shot. They want young core (Bogaerts, Bradley, Webster, Barnes) and will be tough to part with.

Station 13
04-14-2013, 11:57 PM
This tweet is from Old man Peter Gammons. He's usually wrong. I mean he did say the redsox were very interested in Andre Ethier & Ryan Braun. both rumors turned out to be bogus.

Baseball rumors are often bogus. Every team is calling the other team, and the other team are on that team trail. It's just doing their due diligence.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-15-2013, 12:27 AM
This tweet is from Old man Peter Gammons. He's usually wrong. I mean he did say the redsox were very interested in Andre Ethier & Ryan Braun. both rumors turned out to be bogus.

They probably were at some point:shrug:


But outside of the fact that this team currently needs a middle of the lineup batter, everything else would suck about this.

Celtic AL
04-15-2013, 01:12 AM
Baseball rumors are often bogus. Every team is calling the other team, and the other team are on that team trail. It's just doing their due diligence.


They probably were at some point:shrug:


But outside of the fact that this team currently needs a middle of the lineup batter, everything else would suck about this.

They were on Ethier at somepoint last year but i doubt they were looking at Ryan Braun when he was put on waivers by the brewers.

papipapsmanny
04-15-2013, 01:13 AM
Still mad that we didn't trade for Justin Upton. He was had for pennies on the dollar. I would have given up a nice package for him.

IglesiasIgnited
04-15-2013, 02:55 AM
YES! This would be a good move for all parties inv

SirHizz
04-15-2013, 09:21 AM
I am not ready to kiss 4 top 10 prospects goodbye (Bogaerts, Webster, and likely JBj + Owens/Swihart/Cecchini). Not saying Stanton ain't worth it, but it's just the wrong time for us. Might be different in a year or two.
What we need is some cheap young talent to become anchors of our team, otherwise the team gets too expensive and we get the same effect as 2-3 years ago.

Nomar
04-15-2013, 09:21 AM
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1340097931_shocker.jpg&imgrefurl=http://rapgenius.com/854362/Xv-stone-cold-3-16/Shocker-yellow-black-and-golden&h=936&w=1000&sz=73&tbnid=uSP_RMxV2oZRtM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=96&zoom=1&usg=__fcWMj-Y6yZzvf1bVAvJpFOsbHBA=&docid=3tXfNg_x1FTbRM&sa=X&ei=lf5rUfLVKsLE0gGYwIDQCA&ved=0CEYQ9QEwAw&dur=1179

Fla.SticKy
04-15-2013, 10:23 AM
Agree with Papi on the Upton comment!

-Lavigne43-
04-15-2013, 10:46 AM
I am not ready to kiss 4 top 10 prospects goodbye (Bogaerts, Webster, and likely JBj + Owens/Swihart/Cecchini). Not saying Stanton ain't worth it, but it's just the wrong time for us. Might be different in a year or two.
What we need is some cheap young talent to become anchors of our team, otherwise the team gets too expensive and we get the same effect as 2-3 years ago.
Way better then the 1 good prospect + a bunch of C prospects trades I always see, but it probably still would take more than that to get him. Way too many future holes on this team to consider trading a ton of prospects for one player.


I agree that we should have been involved in the Upton talks, but we didn't have the expendable major league talent Arizona wanted and got with Prado

Nomar
04-15-2013, 10:48 AM
Yeah i was one of the few Upton supporters here, but too early to judge him even if he's killing it right now.

todu82
04-15-2013, 01:00 PM
Stanton is 1 heck of a player and what the team needs. That said you can't give up half your farm for a player that may not work out for your team.

bagwell368
04-15-2013, 01:05 PM
Glad we don't have Upton... Either one

papipapsmanny
04-15-2013, 01:13 PM
Glad we don't have Upton... Either one

Really can't see how you can say that, with what he is doing right now, with what he has done, and what was given up for him, and he being 25 years old.

Nomar
04-15-2013, 02:19 PM
Glad we don't have Upton... Either one

At his age (Justin being 25) he could easily get over whatever personality issues he's had over the years. More consistency should come as he gets older too. He was well worth what Arizona got for him and they probably lost that trade in the end.

-Lavigne43-
04-15-2013, 06:35 PM
Hate to even talk about this right now, but I've never seen any report that Justin had any personality issues. The D'backs seemed to want to trade him because they were disappointed he wasn't an instant star.

papipapsmanny
04-15-2013, 08:47 PM
because Towers is an idiot, he basically got rid of Bauer because of his "odd" pregame/game rituals and warmups

bagwell368
04-16-2013, 05:26 AM
Really can't see how you can say that, with what he is doing right now, with what he has done, and what was given up for him, and he being 25 years old.

What he is doing now? Sorry, miniscule sample size.

How about the trade cost? What would we have given up?

Comments:



"The problem is that he didn't play with a high level of energy," said the former teammate, who spoke on the condition that he would not be identified. "What I think they want is guys who play with the speed, energy and intensity of the Oregon football team - all out, all the time.

"Justin doesn't have that kind of attitude; he has a quiet intensity that doesn't fit the mold of what KT and Gibby seem to want. He plays hard, but has to look suave doing it. Slamming into walls isn't his thing, and they will accept nothing short of all-out sacrifice for the team."

[Diamondbacks GM Kevin] Towers, though, did not dispute the perception that the Diamondbacks were trying to add "grinders," specifically citing Prado and one of the prospects in the deal, shortstop Nick Ahmed, as players who "fit the mold."

"That's the way Gibby played the game," Towers said. "Look at our coaching staff, that's the makeup of our coaching staff as well. That's how we won (the NL West) in 2011. Justin was part of the 2011 club.

"Different clubs like to look for different intangibles in players. We kind of like that grinding, gritty player – hard-nosed. I'm not saying that Justin isn't that type of guy … "

But Upton hasn't been the MVP in his own clubhouse this season, much less a league MVP candidate. After hitting 31 homers last year, he has nine this season. His slugging percentage has dipped from .529 to .404, and he has an offensive Wins Above Replacement of 0.7 compared to 4.7 in 2011.

Upon isn't hitting the ball in the air as often or pulling it with much authority. According to ESPN Stats & Information, his ground ball rate is up (from 37 to 45 percent) and his fly ball rate is down (from 46 to 34 percent). He has also been strangely unassertive, taking called third strikes at an alarming rate.

What's the problem? Pick a theory. Upton hurt his thumb in April and got off to a slow start. Opponents are most likely pitching him more carefully after his monster season, and his mechanics have been out of whack at times.

Upton was stung more deeply by an Internet report citing anonymous executives who described him as "not a winning player'' -- a catch-all phrase that generally applies to players who are selfish, lack toughness or don't come through in the clutch. His agent, Larry Reynolds, quickly sprang to his client's defense, telling USA Today that it was "unfounded, negative rhetoric'' advanced by "gutless people'' who were afraid to attach their name to it. Upton, similarly, thinks the critique was out of bounds.

papipapsmanny
04-16-2013, 01:44 PM
What he is doing now? Sorry, miniscule sample size.

How about the trade cost? What would we have given up?



I would have gladly given up say Jackie Bradley, Iglesias, Owens, and say Coyle for him.

Prado is a 3-4 WAR player pushing 30, and really the rest of what they got looks like spare parts to me. Unless you like Randall Delgado who just seems like a younger Andrew Miller to me.

bagwell368
04-16-2013, 02:00 PM
I would have gladly given up say Jackie Bradley, Iglesias, Owens, and say Coyle for him.

I'm sure you would, and I'm sure they would have laughed.

PapelbonLester
04-18-2013, 12:26 AM
Ells, Bradley, Barnes and a PTNL would get it done.....and i would do it!!!!

-Lavigne43-
04-18-2013, 12:34 AM
Why would the Marlins want Ellsbury? The rest of that package wouldn't rent Giancarlo for a week.

AI
04-18-2013, 02:02 AM
Why would the Marlins want Ellsbury? The rest of that package wouldn't rent Giancarlo for a week.

Depends on the Giancarlo you'd be renting. :)

Nomar
04-18-2013, 10:58 AM
Depends on the Giancarlo you'd be renting. :)

The one you're referring to is a bum

bagwell368
04-18-2013, 12:13 PM
Ells, Bradley, Barnes and a PTNL would get it done.....and i would do it!!!!

/jk

Figure on XB, Bradley, and any two P we have on the farm - after we get to reserve 2. What's that? A third of the impact players from the system you hope are on the field and starring in 2016? This team isn't close enough to make such a deal.

RedSoxtober
04-18-2013, 12:22 PM
/jk

Figure on XB, Bradley, and any two P we have on the farm - after we get to reserve 2. What's that? A third of the impact players from the system you hope are on the field and starring in 2016? This team isn't close enough to make such a deal.

What's scary is that the Rangers probably are. With Andrus locked up until armageddon, they could comfortably start a deal with Olt and Profar.

bagwell368
04-18-2013, 01:23 PM
What's scary is that the Rangers probably are. With Andrus locked up until armageddon, they could comfortably start a deal with Olt and Profar.

Bingo. That's the sort of team that's going to do it.

AI
04-18-2013, 01:48 PM
The one you're referring to is a bum

You're no fun.

bruins>habs
04-26-2013, 11:45 PM
Stanton to the Boston Red Sox for OF Jackie Bradley, SP Allen Webster, and SS Jose Iglesias

Analysis – This would be a good haul for the Marlins in that each one of these prospects is major league ready now, or if not now definitely next year. Bradley has shown his struggles in his first stint in the majors, but all signs point to him having the tools to be a good corner OF in the majors. Webster would be the key prize of the deal, as he can be a front-line starter in the rotation. Iglesias is a defensive-minded SS, and sometimes that just all you need to be for that position.



got this from an offshoot site from MLBTR. i wouldn't do that trade. idk about anyone else.

bruins>habs
04-26-2013, 11:46 PM
Stanton to the Boston Red Sox for OF Jackie Bradley, SP Allen Webster, and SS Jose Iglesias

Analysis This would be a good haul for the Marlins in that each one of these prospects is major league ready now, or if not now definitely next year. Bradley has shown his struggles in his first stint in the majors, but all signs point to him having the tools to be a good corner OF in the majors. Webster would be the key prize of the deal, as he can be a front-line starter in the rotation. Iglesias is a defensive-minded SS, and sometimes that just all you need to be for that position.



got this from an offshoot site from MLBTR. i wouldn't do that trade. idk about anyone else.

SoxFan101NlB
04-27-2013, 12:15 AM
got this from an offshoot site from MLBTR. i wouldn't do that trade. idk about anyone else.

I would do that trade in 2 shakes of a lambs tail.

bagwell368
04-27-2013, 09:28 AM
got this from an offshoot site from MLBTR. i wouldn't do that trade. idk about anyone else.

Bradley appears to be an above average fielder, smart base runner, good guy, average/slightly below hitter. Nice, but not irreplaceable.

Iglesias is the great glove, meh hit SS that used to populate the NL in my childhood into the 80's, nice maybe if his OBP can top .300.

I like Webster a lot, but young pitchers are much dicier in terms of projecting into the future (but very hard to replace if they turn out to be the real deal). If getting Stanton to sign an extension is part of the deal, you've got to do it.

Nomar
04-27-2013, 09:34 AM
I would do that trade in a heartbeat.

bruins>habs
04-27-2013, 10:07 AM
I think i'm overvaluing JBjr and Webster.....I mean, if we get Stanton without giving up Boegarts, that seems pretty good the more i look at it. I would hate giving up Webster though, but to get good players, you need to give up good specs/good players. That trade isn't a rumor, more of a "this might be able to get it done" type thing.

-Lavigne43-
04-27-2013, 01:11 PM
That's an obvious yes, Miami would never do that. Reads like someones opinion/blog piece, probably a Red Sox fan too. Stanton has what, 4 years of team control left? Right now they would only trade him if they got a ridiculous amount back

At the very least it will probably cost Bogaerts for sure, at best 2 of Webster, Barnes, JBjr, but probably all 3, Owens or Cechhini, someone young with a high ceiling, like Margot, Buttrey, Vinicio etc, and perhaps some filler C prospects or AAAA type players. Stanton is 23 and has legitimate HoF potential.

AI
04-27-2013, 01:14 PM
6-7 players for 1 Lav? Even I don't think Stanton is worth all that and I love him. At this point, I don't want us to trade for Stanton because it will completely rape our farm system which looks very promising on both sides (pitching/position prospects).

-Lavigne43-
04-27-2013, 02:09 PM
Not saying I would do it, the Red Sox are not in a position to make that trade right now, we need to horde all the prospects we can. Stanton's one of the best, if not the best, very young players in the league, with years of control still left. Half of those prospects I named will probably be disappointments or not amount to that much value in the majors. For it to be worth it to the Marlins they need to get 3 players who are very good for the first 6 years of their careers. A big market team like the Red Sox would be getting Stanton for as long as they want him, perhaps 15 years of a middle of the lineup bat that puts up top 5 offensive numbers in baseball for many of those years. Giancarlo hitting in Fenway or Arlington is a scary thing.

Hes started off extremely slow (unfortunately for my fantasy team) maybe his anger at the Marlins organization has effected his play and diminishes his value, when his arb years start his value will drop too. Miami should trade him now, hopefully Texas doesn't do it.

bagwell368
04-27-2013, 08:24 PM
That's an obvious yes, Miami would never do that. Reads like someones opinion/blog piece, probably a Red Sox fan too. Stanton has what, 4 years of team control left? Right now they would only trade him if they got a ridiculous amount back

At the very least it will probably cost Bogaerts for sure, at best 2 of Webster, Barnes, JBjr, but probably all 3, Owens or Cechhini, someone young with a high ceiling, like Margot, Buttrey, Vinicio etc, and perhaps some filler C prospects or AAAA type players. Stanton is 23 and has legitimate HoF potential.

Too much... 40% your deal + 60% op / 2 is about right

JackB
04-28-2013, 12:53 PM
The Tigers gave up their # 1 pitcher last year to get Infante and Sanchez and look what Turner has done since. NOTHING !!!!!
Stanton is only 23 years old. 23 !!!!
Somebody will give up a bundle and it will pay off .
Coach Paul Bear Bryant once said Potential means you haven't done crap yet. That's what prospects are .

poprocksncoke
04-29-2013, 11:48 AM
got this from an offshoot site from MLBTR. i wouldn't do that trade. idk about anyone else.

Would do this and not even think twice about it.

BGeer091
04-29-2013, 12:05 PM
I believe that a deal could be had without Xander. To me I think the deal starts with Middlebrooks. I could see Miami wanting him. He's a potential great defense power hitting 3B. He's proven he can hit in the majors. De La Rosa is the pitcher they'd want IMO as well. They would now have 2 MLB ready players. I think you have to add in 2 more players. One that is a very high ceiling spec to me the Vincio. Another that is knocking on the door Iggy. Even then I still think Miami says no. Actually the more I think about it.. I think the deal would be

WMB
Rubby
Barnes
Iggy
Vincio
+

Stanton
bad contract guy

The_Great_8
04-29-2013, 02:46 PM
The Tigers gave up their # 1 pitcher last year to get Infante and Sanchez and look what Turner has done since. NOTHING !!!!!
Stanton is only 23 years old. 23 !!!!
Somebody will give up a bundle and it will pay off .
Coach Paul Bear Bryant once said Potential means you haven't done crap yet. That's what prospects are .


This is right on. I think anytime you have a chance to trade prospects for proven talent (especially a young, all-star like Stanton), the team that acquires the proven player ALMOST always wins out. I think the Marlins would laugh at that trade offer of JBJr, Webster and Iglesias (though I would love it if they'd do it).

Didn't the Sox try to trade Manny Ramirez for Stanton years ago before most people even knew who Stanton was, and the Marlins said, No?

bagwell368
04-29-2013, 09:47 PM
I believe that a deal could be had without Xander. To me I think the deal starts with Middlebrooks. I could see Miami wanting him. He's a potential great defense power hitting 3B. He's proven he can hit in the majors.

He has?


De La Rosa is the pitcher they'd want IMO as well.

i wouldn't be so sure about that. that operation might set him off as 3rd or 4th guy that they would want.



WMB
Rubby
Barnes
Iggy
Vincio
+

Stanton
bad contract guy

I'd imagine that they'd want more quality and less quantity, and no bad money. BTW I think it's too much.

Nomar
04-29-2013, 11:26 PM
JBJ + RDLR + Swihart seems like a more reasonable package to me.

bagwell368
04-30-2013, 07:27 AM
JBJ + RDLR + Swihart seems like a more reasonable package to me.

Well, I can't see that being anywhere near what it would take. JBJ appears to be a somewhat above average CF of the future with lots of team control, but not a star. RDLR might flame out before he goes anywhere. Projecting minor league catchers to be top ML talents is very difficult - most usually just become back-ups someplace - at best.

The talks have to start with XB, and whatever farm pitcher we have they like the most. They'll deal him at the deadline for a huge package, well in excess of what you've got here. As I said before, it's too rich for our blood, we've got to pass on him.

RedSoxtober
04-30-2013, 09:44 AM
I believe that a deal could be had without Xander. To me I think the deal starts with Middlebrooks. I could see Miami wanting him. He's a potential great defense power hitting 3B. He's proven he can hit in the majors. De La Rosa is the pitcher they'd want IMO as well. They would now have 2 MLB ready players. I think you have to add in 2 more players. One that is a very high ceiling spec to me the Vincio. Another that is knocking on the door Iggy. Even then I still think Miami says no. Actually the more I think about it.. I think the deal would be

WMB
Rubby
Barnes
Iggy
Vincio
+

Stanton
bad contract guy

I think you're pulling names out of the buzz hat. RDLR would need to drop his ERA below, say, 9.00 in his first season back from surgery to be remotely attractive. Getting his whip (1.665) and HR/9 (2.8) down to levels approaching fringe MLB talent would be helpful, too. He's got a good arm but until he demonstrates that the reconstruction has led to a similar pitcher to the one who went to surgery no one is going to target him, and certainly not as the main pitcher in a deal for an AS. He might be the pitcher they settle for; the pitcher they want is undoubtedly Webster (who seems to be MORE MLB ready given his MLB start).

Why would they want two SS (Iglesias and Vinicio) in the same deal? I guess you could move Vinicio to 2B. Vinicio is pretty small by the way. I'm not yet convinced he makes it to MLB.

ruckus16969
04-30-2013, 10:49 PM
That's an obvious yes, Miami would never do that. Reads like someones opinion/blog piece, probably a Red Sox fan too. Stanton has what, 4 years of team control left? Right now they would only trade him if they got a ridiculous amount back

At the very least it will probably cost Bogaerts for sure, at best 2 of Webster, Barnes, JBjr, but probably all 3, Owens or Cechhini, someone young with a high ceiling, like Margot, Buttrey, Vinicio etc, and perhaps some filler C prospects or AAAA type players. Stanton is 23 and has legitimate HoF potential.


NO way LOL it would look more like XB or JBJ with 1 of Webseter Barnes or RDLR then 2 of Iggy Brentz Cenhhinni Owens Raundo and then maybe a PTBNL and we might have to take on Nolascos contract.

But no player is worth that package you put together That's more talent then the Jays gave up for 2 allstars and 2 very good players.Look at what Braves gave up for Upton or what the Dodgers gave up for Han-ram

-Lavigne43-
04-30-2013, 11:10 PM
You're equating the value of a 23 year old elite bat making league minimum to the Marlins getting rid of Reyes and his massive salary, Upton who the D'backs were running out of town after a mediocre season, and Hanley Ramirez who played poorly for 2 years, was a complete pain in the *** in the clubhouse, and also made a lot of money?

I can't think of any team trading someone as talented and young as Stanton with so many years of control left in recent memory. It would take a historic package. The Marlins wouldn't trade him straight up for Manny. Ramirez when he was in A ball. If it didn't take a crazy amount to trade for Stanton right now he would have already been traded during the offseason.

RedSoxtober
05-01-2013, 10:45 AM
Pre-go-to-hell Upton may be a better comp. The demand then was for 5 players, cost-controlled, potentially a mix of young MLB talent and MLB-ready talent. No one bit so the asking price was apparently high but it might be a good barometer for Stanton.

Stanton is on the DL. Again. 123G last year. I'd be a bit concerned in a trade. Wonder if he could turn into Nomar.

ruckus16969
05-01-2013, 11:54 AM
You're equating the value of a 23 year old elite bat making league minimum to the Marlins getting rid of Reyes and his massive salary, Upton who the D'backs were running out of town after a mediocre season, and Hanley Ramirez who played poorly for 2 years, was a complete pain in the *** in the clubhouse, and also made a lot of money?

I can't think of any team trading someone as talented and young as Stanton with so many years of control left in recent memory. It would take a historic package. The Marlins wouldn't trade him straight up for Manny. Ramirez when he was in A ball. If it didn't take a crazy amount to trade for Stanton right now he would have already been traded during the offseason.

I definitely agree that it would take a huge haul of prospects but when ur talking 5 guys with a legitimate chance of being stars its just too much. I think Our best position prospect and our best pitching prospect with a couple guys with high ceiling can get it done. Stanton is a stud but he is also an injury risk.

Iggy, JBJ, Carp and Webster. The Marlins would have to bite that hook and we would land Stanton. That's 4 MLB ready guys. I know Carps recent success is a small sample but maybe its legit.

Norieaga
05-01-2013, 12:05 PM
I don't think that package would come close to landing Stanton. If that's all it took I'd do it yesterday. Carp is 26 and not exactly a prospect, while all indications are that Iglesias has trouble hitting. JBJ and Webster are legitimate trade bait but wouldn't they rather have RLDR instead? Furthermore, I think you gotta substitute WMB/XB for Carp and then you MIGHT have something.

I'm secretly hoping Stanton gets so sick of that team that he forces his way out and makes Miami take a slightly lesser package to get rid of him.

ruckus16969
05-01-2013, 01:06 PM
I don't think that package would come close to landing Stanton. If that's all it took I'd do it yesterday. Carp is 26 and not exactly a prospect, while all indications are that Iglesias has trouble hitting. JBJ and Webster are legitimate trade bait but wouldn't they rather have RLDR instead? Furthermore, I think you gotta substitute WMB/XB for Carp and then you MIGHT have something.

I'm secretly hoping Stanton gets so sick of that team that he forces his way out and makes Miami take a slightly lesser package to get rid of him.

At first I was thinking RDLR but Webster is ready to contribute to the ML club now.

bagwell368
05-01-2013, 08:19 PM
Iggy, JBJ, Carp and Webster. The Marlins would have to bite that hook and we would land Stanton. That's 4 MLB ready guys. I know Carps recent success is a small sample but maybe its legit.

No they wouldn't bite at that. Please. Enough.

Carp is garbage. JBJ is liable to be an average or slightly above average ML player. He will never be a star year in and year out. Webster is a wise upgrade over Rubby. Iglesias is until further notice a +3 rWAR defender and a -1.8 rWAR offensive player.

BGeer091
05-02-2013, 01:26 PM
I wish they would bit on that. I'm sticking to the idea that WMB, De La Rosa, Iggy + gets the conversation started..

Crucis
05-02-2013, 03:35 PM
I believe that a deal could be had without Xander.


WEEI's Rob Bradford is reporting that the Sox were also in on the Reyes/Johnson trade this past off-season, but that the deal fell apart because the Sox were unwilling to part with Bogaerts. If the Marlins were demanding Xavier in a Reyes/Johnson deal, how can you seriously think that he wouldn't be a required part of any deal for Stanton?


http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/05/01/red-sox-were-also-thinking-about-acquiring-josh-johnson-jose-reyes/

SoxFan101NlB
05-02-2013, 03:40 PM
I wish they would bit on that. I'm sticking to the idea that WMB, De La Rosa, Iggy + gets the conversation started..

I'm getting really tired of these half assed trade proposals. IF it happens it starts with XB, Barnes, Cecchini, Webster and 2 more pieces.

If they do not ask for premium they are stupid. Like many have said...these are only prospects...and to get Stanton we have to give them whatever they want.

bagwell368
05-02-2013, 07:06 PM
I wish they would bit on that. I'm sticking to the idea that WMB, De La Rosa, Iggy + gets the conversation started..

OK, and I'm sticking with the idea your ear will hurt from how hard the phone gets banged down.

SoxFan101NlB
05-03-2013, 12:50 AM
+1 bags. You seem to know a lot about these particular situations...what would you offer and why. And when do you hang up the phone?

PapelbonLester
05-03-2013, 01:45 AM
Ells/Bard/RDLR/Workman. BOOM JBJ starts playing LF/RF

bagwell368
05-03-2013, 06:08 AM
+1 bags. You seem to know a lot about these particular situations...what would you offer and why. And when do you hang up the phone?

Oh I dunno, about 2 years ago I was giving away WMB in every trade.

I just know that there is a shortage of true stud power hitters in the game. Further, getting one young and under control with the possibility of an extension covering his prime years is possible and intoxicating. For such a heavy piece of 24k gold, you don't accept 8 pieces of low grade silver in the form of Iglesias (gone to Oz to look for some muscles), WMB (looking for patience with the bat), and Rubby (who has major concerns with his health). None is a proven ML player, and all have at least one serious concern, and none appear to be capable of anywhere near the impact of GS.

bagwell368
05-03-2013, 06:12 AM
Ells/Bard/RDLR/Workman. BOOM JBJ starts playing LF/RF

That's even weaker than the other package.

#1 Ellsbury is a FA after the year with no hopes of being made to sign an extension
#2 Bard is very fragile and may never be worth a damn ever again
#3 Rubby has arm problems, has to be taught to decrease the velocity of his arm - often a move which screws up everything for good
#4 Workman? Not even in the top 5 in terms of Sox farmhands, and he's getting no younger.

Pathetic.

BGeer091
05-03-2013, 01:15 PM
I'm getting really tired of these half assed trade proposals. IF it happens it starts with XB, Barnes, Cecchini, Webster and 2 more pieces.

If they do not ask for premium they are stupid. Like many have said...these are only prospects...and to get Stanton we have to give them whatever they want.

1. I said gets the conversation started, I didn't say it was the deal. 2. I also added + meaning it would take more. 3. Your idea is way to much and the Redsox wouldn't do it. If you don't like peoples trade proposals don't come into threads, where people are posting their opinions or proposals.

Stanton isn't available anyways. If and when he is probably won't be for another year or 2. There are other teams out there anyways who could offer better deals.

If he was a must move for Miami which he's not then a deal of WMB, Rosa, and Iggy + isn't going to get hung up on. If the Sox said you could have any 2 other prospects out of our top 3 Miami probably would probably still negotiate. Of course they are going to say we want Xander, Bradley and Webster +. With us saying what about WMB Rosa and Iggy + any 2 prospects not in our top 3 the conversation isn't over. There are still pretty good guys outside the top 3. Barnes, Owens, Brentz, Swihart, Ranuado, hell even Vazquez.

I think you could get a deal done without the top 3 guys. By the time Miami is going to move him anyways Bradley, will be in center, and Webster will be in our rotation...

SoxFan101NlB
05-03-2013, 02:07 PM
What I'm trying to say to you is...your original trade proposal will NOT even have them answering the phone. That's what I'm talking about. We can't start that low and expect the Marlins to even respond/counter-offer.

And you are right. Our farm looks fairly stacked :) I'm a huge fan of that. How about Cliff Lee people? He may be over the hill, but the Phillies are going to be out of contention quickly, and we can never have enough starting pitching?

bagwell368
05-03-2013, 07:25 PM
Your idea is way to much and the Redsox wouldn't do it. If you don't like peoples trade proposals don't come into threads, where people are posting their opinions or proposals.

So, it's OK for you to criticize another poster for his ideas, but not for him to criticize yours? Besides the fact that you've morphed your trade idea by labeling it an initial offer, your ideas in this thread are clearly sophomoric IMO.


Stanton isn't available anyways. If and when he is probably won't be for another year or 2. There are other teams out there anyways who could offer better deals.

If Stanton isn't available why are you making up deals? BTW, what advantage would be gained by not dealing Stanton for a year or two?

Nomar
05-04-2013, 02:16 PM
I think Stanton will be available. He will leave Miami when the time comes, why not try to get a huge package of specs for him while you can? They need a lot more than one HoF player to become relevant. Stanton isn't enough and with what they have right now in their farm they won't be good for years on years.

Crucis
05-04-2013, 04:10 PM
I think Stanton will be available. He will leave Miami when the time comes, why not try to get a huge package of specs for him while you can? They need a lot more than one HoF player to become relevant. Stanton isn't enough and with what they have right now in their farm they won't be good for years on years.

I guess to me, it sends a really terrible signal to your fans when you won't at least hold onto a star player who you have under control for 4 more seasons. Is he enough for the Marlins to win it all? Unlikely. But he would see to be a draw at the box office, and it seems to me that if the Fish trade everyone away who is a draw, they'll be slitting their own throats, even moreso that they already did this off-season.

bagwell368
05-04-2013, 06:24 PM
I guess to me, it sends a really terrible signal to your fans when you won't at least hold onto a star player who you have under control for 4 more seasons. Is he enough for the Marlins to win it all? Unlikely. But he would see to be a draw at the box office, and it seems to me that if the Fish trade everyone away who is a draw, they'll be slitting their own throats, even moreso that they already did this off-season.

Stanton has no support in that line-up. He's swinging at more balls out of the strike zone, and he's seeing more cut FB's and sliders than ever before. He's not doing so well this year.

Between his star dimming and the possibility of serious injury, I wouldn't see keeping him as a no stress/no brain choice for the Marlins.

Miami should be able to get 2 decent/good current ML players with most of their control intact AND pretty much their choice of 2 of the top 5 specs in just about any system, with probably a possible big hit further down the system in long season A or AA ball.

What do fans want more? A young guy struggling to play on a faceless/talentless team or a better team for starters with some nice upside around the corner?

SoxFan101NlB
05-05-2013, 02:18 AM
Thanks for sticking up for me bags. I'm still in the boat that thinks they will trade him in an off season rather than during the season so they can acquire more mlb players/mlb ready players.

ruckus16969
05-05-2013, 07:56 PM
Stanton has no support in that line-up. He's swinging at more balls out of the strike zone, and he's seeing more cut FB's and sliders than ever before. He's not doing so well this year.

Between his star dimming and the possibility of serious injury, I wouldn't see keeping him as a no stress/no brain choice for the Marlins.

Miami should be able to get 2 decent/good current ML players with most of their control intact AND pretty much their choice of 2 of the top 5 specs in just about any system, with probably a possible big hit further down the system in long season A or AA ball.

What do fans want more? A young guy struggling to play on a faceless/talentless team or a better team for starters with some nice upside around the corner?

Oh ya I definitely think he is available. The longer he stays on that team the lower his value. The will never be the offensive player he could be hitting in that line-up. Even if he does start hitting well, he will just end up being walked every time he comes up. The jays should have tried for him instead of Dickey. But this kids needs to be on a better team.

Honestly as much as I would hate to see this happen I think the Rays should go all in and get him. They could trade for him then trade Price and their farm wouldn't even be touched. Imagine Stanton, Myers, Zobrist/Jennings that OF would be amazing for the next 5 years.

ruckus16969
05-05-2013, 07:57 PM
Thanks for sticking up for me bags. I'm still in the boat that thinks they will trade him in an off season rather than during the season so they can acquire more mlb players/mlb ready players.

They would be better off trading him at the trade deadline IMO

RedSoxtober
05-06-2013, 01:32 PM
They would be better off trading him at the trade deadline IMO

I disagree. Deadline deals make sense for certain types of players. Relievers obviously are great at the deadline because they tend to be so unpredictable from one year to the next. A guy with 1.5yrs or less left on his deal is a good target as well since they tend to be really focused on their next big contract. Deadline deals favor short-term objectives.

Stanton, by contrast, has tons of time left. The package the Phish will want for him will be SO big (as discussed above) that it will take a GM and his top staff a while to weigh the options and put the pieces together. That's something that is much more likely to take place as a team is assessing it's long range plans during the offseason than trying to find a missing piece at the deadline.

mooz
05-07-2013, 11:07 AM
I disagree. Deadline deals make sense for certain types of players. Relievers obviously are great at the deadline because they tend to be so unpredictable from one year to the next. A guy with 1.5yrs or less left on his deal is a good target as well since they tend to be really focused on their next big contract. Deadline deals favor short-term objectives.

Stanton, by contrast, has tons of time left. The package the Phish will want for him will be SO big (as discussed above) that it will take a GM and his top staff a while to weigh the options and put the pieces together. That's something that is much more likely to take place as a team is assessing it's long range plans during the offseason than trying to find a missing piece at the deadline.

Very well said. I 100% agree. Just to add to what you said, Stanton will likely require some valuable major league ready talent as well (or at least players on the cusp of the majors). Something contenders would be more likely to want to keep and call up for the playoff run, John Lackey in 2002 with the Angels, Ellsbury in 2007 with us and David Price in 2008 with the Rays come to mind as good examples of this.