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View Full Version : Consistency From the NBA Office?



JasonJohnHorn
04-02-2013, 03:39 PM
I'm not going to claim that the NBA rigs games (though I do believe that they have in the past and will in the future), or that they rig the lottery (though I believe that as well), as both those assumptions require evidence that is simply not present. They cannot be quantified.


But I do think there are some glaring inconsistencies with how the league treats teams, and I do think that it is an issue that can sometimes have drastic impacts on how a team performs.


Obvious issue is the Spurs sitting players against the Heat and being fined for it while the Heat sit players against the Spurs and are not find.

Another is the recent upgrade to a flagrant foul on LBJ. This game, firstly, took place like a week ago. This is a late call. If it was going to be done, it should have been done the next day. Instead, LBJ comes out and claims he's not getting enough fouls (rolls eye). The officials in the game got to look at the replay and determined it was not a flagrant foul. This is not an issue of missing a call or not seeing a play. I understand if the league wants to make a suspension on a player based on a play the officials did not see, or upgrade a suspension on a play the refs deemed worthy of an ejection, but this is not the case here. The game is over. There outcome will not be changed. There was no reason to do this other than to appease LBJ and the Heat.

Last season, when the Heat were playing the Bulls and Wade blatantly shoved Rip Hamilton, not only was Wade left in the game, but the league made no attempt to punish him. In that instance, Wade was CLEARLY not making a play for the ball, yet nothing was done. Adversely, the argument the league is making is that the Bulls players were not making a play on the ball either, when they clearly were. What the Bulls did was make a play on the ball and when the whistle went off, made sure LBJ could get the basket and a free throw. That is what players have been doing for decades. Wade blatantly SHOVED a player, not making a play on the ball, and was allowed to stay in the game, while the Bulls get tagged with a flagrant foul afterwards.

The Heat have not always been the benefactors of such favoritism though, as they once had to give up a first round draft pick to the Knicks for signing their coach away. The Heat insisted that they did things on the up-and-up, but the Knicks, who were the big market team in the east and considered Chi-town's top rivals at the time were rewarded with a first rounder.

When the Lakers signed Shaq, similar rumours circulated that LAL had worked out the contract whilst Shaq was still with the Magic. All parties denied wrong doing, just as the Heat did with the Riley situation, but the Lakers were not forced to offer any compensation as the Heat were, despite the fact that neither case had any proof.

Then there are the illegal draft work out the Knicks have done in the past. Such offenses are punishable by loss of a draft pick or picks, but NY was not punished for it at all.

Minnesota on the other hand, when they made an "illegal" contract, with Joe Smith, not only had that contract nullified and lost the player, they were also fined 3.5 million dollars and had FIVE draft picks taken away from them (two were later reinstated). FIVE FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS!!!! That destroys a teams ability to improve. The reason, Smith agreed to a small contract that allowed flexibility for the T-Wolves with the promise of a larger contract being given at the end of the initial contract.

The thing is, the Cavs did the same thing with Carlos Boozer. They had a team option after his second year, which he asked them decline so he could test the free agent market. They agreed, so long as he agreed to sign with them for a rate that would offer him more for his third season, but a little less than he would have been eligible had he waited to sign with them after his rookie contract expired. This likewise is considered salary cap tampering, and the odd thing about it is that when Boozer signed an even bigger contract with Utah, Paxson, the Cavs GM at the time, came out and publicly admitted the deal and claimed Boozer had stabbed him in the back after making the agreement on a handshake. Despite admitted salary-cap tampering, Cleveland faced no punishments for it (LBJ was their franchise player and hot commodity at the time).


I'm not talking about rigging the draft or the officiating, I'm talking about public decisions the league has made and how consistently they are applied to various teams, and how it in turn impact the team. A 3.5 million dollar fine plus the loss of 5 draft picks? that sets a team up for failure for a decade. 3.5 million to a small market team is a lot of money.


That said, how do you rank the league's consistency with how they apply the rules to different teams? 1 being awful and 10 being the are an ideal model for other leagues. What issues have they been consistent with? And what issues have they failed to be consistent with?

BigBlueCrew
04-02-2013, 03:55 PM
I thought this was funny....and no its not me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZatX_6i5WY

amos1er
04-02-2013, 03:58 PM
I voted 4. I don't think it's 100% rigged, it's most likely somewhere in the middle leaning towards rigged though.

flea
04-02-2013, 04:04 PM
I agree with you, on pretty much everything. David Stern is the worst commissioner in my lifetime and I seriously doubt anyone will surpass him.

ManRam
04-02-2013, 06:03 PM
it's glaringly obvious how what the heat did and what the spurs did are different. there are fewer similarities than dissimilarities.


but yes. the office needs to sit down this offseason and figure out a concrete set of guidelines for this issue.

Sandman
04-02-2013, 06:05 PM
I don't know if it is "rigged" per se, but I think its obvious that they are wildly inconsistent.

Celticsfan2007
04-02-2013, 06:21 PM
You bring up some great points, but unfortunately we are all still fans who will continue to tune in.

So long as they are making money, the NBA will continue to favor players/teams in the name of ratings and popularity.

mngopher35
04-02-2013, 06:34 PM
I don't know if it is "rigged" per se, but I think its obvious that they are wildly inconsistent.

this

ManRam
04-02-2013, 06:45 PM
I don't know if it is "rigged" per se, but I think its obvious that they are wildly inconsistent.

this x10000


i genuinely don't think the league is dumb enough to blatantly rig things (they'd get exposed after time and the damage would severely outweigh the potential pros). but there are obviously some wild inconsistencies.

i didn't read the whole post in my first post, but i genuinely don't think there was an inconsistency with how they handled SAS and MIA here...which seems to be the jumping off point of this all. but there are obviously a ton of inconsistencies all around. some of them unfortunately just come with the territory, so of them they league has learned from/working on fixing, and some are just unacceptable.

Sly Guy
04-02-2013, 07:04 PM
I voted 4. I don't think it's 100% rigged, it's most likely somewhere in the middle leaning towards rigged though.

I gave it a 3 on a similar thought. Refs can rig games, and the comish's office can be two-faced in handing out discipline, but the players still play the most important part on the outcome of a game. That being said, any fixing of the game is too much.

KnicksorBust
04-02-2013, 07:15 PM
It's not rigged. Refs mess-up a lot. They are human and fouling is subjective with certain refs. 9

Celticsfan2007
04-02-2013, 07:59 PM
It's not rigged. Refs mess-up a lot. They are human and fouling is subjective with certain refs. 9

Someone didn't read the OP

BTW, I voted a 2, and that was being very generous towards the NBA...

ldawg
04-02-2013, 09:24 PM
very inconsistent in all aspects. Like Forrest mom said, the NBA is like a box of chocolate you never know what your going to get out of it.

Iggz53
04-02-2013, 09:50 PM
It's all about making money and maintaining a system that favors the players, teams, and situations that make the league the most money. It's what Stern has always been about and will likely not chance with Adam Silver. We won't see anything consistent and fair for a long, long time, if ever. Sad but true.

kdspurman
04-02-2013, 10:00 PM
it's glaringly obvious how what the heat did and what the spurs did are different. there are fewer similarities than dissimilarities.


but yes. the office needs to sit down this offseason and figure out a concrete set of guidelines for this issue.

I just refuted this comment in the other thread about if the Heat should be fined. :) I think there are probably more similarities than people realize.

Aust
04-02-2013, 10:27 PM
I agree with you, on pretty much everything. David Stern is the worst commissioner in my lifetime and I seriously doubt anyone will surpass him.

:nod:

jericho
04-02-2013, 10:31 PM
We may not have hard prove but we have seen countless of games that we can ask ourselves where did they get this call from. Yeah I know that the refs are humans and make mistakes but when the mistake is way to obvious and it cost the game is another story. Another thing why don't the hold the refs accountable for the mistakes that they make. You don't see any fines suspensions or anything towards the refs when they make something like that all we get is an apology from the league if any. (yes I do believe they should get a fine or suspension cuz they can predict the outcome of a game as much as the players)

Bout the other stuff I can't really talk cuz I don't have to much knowledge bout it but I do agree that big market teams or teams that are hot at the moment tend to get less fines and penalties compared to other teams. Bout the spurs/heat thing it is complete bs Idc if it was supposedly injury reasons that wade/bron/chalmers didn't play you fined the spurs for something similar look into it find out if the injuries are legit or an excuse and give em the penalties or rescind the 1 giving to the spurs. Don't get me wrong I'm all for resting players but the coach shouldn't need a reason to rest his players. The coach job is to put his team in the best position to win not to appease the media or David stern.

KBfrom8to24
04-02-2013, 11:45 PM
I'm not going to claim that the NBA rigs games (though I do believe that they have in the past and will in the future), or that they rig the lottery (though I believe that as well), as both those assumptions require evidence that is simply not present. They cannot be quantified.


But I do think there are some glaring inconsistencies with how the league treats teams, and I do think that it is an issue that can sometimes have drastic impacts on how a team performs.


Obvious issue is the Spurs sitting players against the Heat and being fined for it while the Heat sit players against the Spurs and are not find.

Another is the recent upgrade to a flagrant foul on LBJ. This game, firstly, took place like a week ago. This is a late call. If it was going to be done, it should have been done the next day. Instead, LBJ comes out and claims he's not getting enough fouls (rolls eye). The officials in the game got to look at the replay and determined it was not a flagrant foul. This is not an issue of missing a call or not seeing a play. I understand if the league wants to make a suspension on a player based on a play the officials did not see, or upgrade a suspension on a play the refs deemed worthy of an ejection, but this is not the case here. The game is over. There outcome will not be changed. There was no reason to do this other than to appease LBJ and the Heat.

Last season, when the Heat were playing the Bulls and Wade blatantly shoved Rip Hamilton, not only was Wade left in the game, but the league made no attempt to punish him. In that instance, Wade was CLEARLY not making a play for the ball, yet nothing was done. Adversely, the argument the league is making is that the Bulls players were not making a play on the ball either, when they clearly were. What the Bulls did was make a play on the ball and when the whistle went off, made sure LBJ could get the basket and a free throw. That is what players have been doing for decades. Wade blatantly SHOVED a player, not making a play on the ball, and was allowed to stay in the game, while the Bulls get tagged with a flagrant foul afterwards.

The Heat have not always been the benefactors of such favoritism though, as they once had to give up a first round draft pick to the Knicks for signing their coach away. The Heat insisted that they did things on the up-and-up, but the Knicks, who were the big market team in the east and considered Chi-town's top rivals at the time were rewarded with a first rounder.

When the Lakers signed Shaq, similar rumours circulated that LAL had worked out the contract whilst Shaq was still with the Magic. All parties denied wrong doing, just as the Heat did with the Riley situation, but the Lakers were not forced to offer any compensation as the Heat were, despite the fact that neither case had any proof.

Then there are the illegal draft work out the Knicks have done in the past. Such offenses are punishable by loss of a draft pick or picks, but NY was not punished for it at all.

Minnesota on the other hand, when they made an "illegal" contract, with Joe Smith, not only had that contract nullified and lost the player, they were also fined 3.5 million dollars and had FIVE draft picks taken away from them (two were later reinstated). FIVE FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS!!!! That destroys a teams ability to improve. The reason, Smith agreed to a small contract that allowed flexibility for the T-Wolves with the promise of a larger contract being given at the end of the initial contract.

The thing is, the Cavs did the same thing with Carlos Boozer. They had a team option after his second year, which he asked them decline so he could test the free agent market. They agreed, so long as he agreed to sign with them for a rate that would offer him more for his third season, but a little less than he would have been eligible had he waited to sign with them after his rookie contract expired. This likewise is considered salary cap tampering, and the odd thing about it is that when Boozer signed an even bigger contract with Utah, Paxson, the Cavs GM at the time, came out and publicly admitted the deal and claimed Boozer had stabbed him in the back after making the agreement on a handshake. Despite admitted salary-cap tampering, Cleveland faced no punishments for it (LBJ was their franchise player and hot commodity at the time).


I'm not talking about rigging the draft or the officiating, I'm talking about public decisions the league has made and how consistently they are applied to various teams, and how it in turn impact the team. A 3.5 million dollar fine plus the loss of 5 draft picks? that sets a team up for failure for a decade. 3.5 million to a small market team is a lot of money.


That said, how do you rank the league's consistency with how they apply the rules to different teams? 1 being awful and 10 being the are an ideal model for other leagues. What issues have they been consistent with? And what issues have they failed to be consistent with?

The Heat's winning streak just ended at 27 wins, and in that streak Wade's 25 games was whistled for 49 fouls while LBJ has only 38 fouls on 27 games. Now can you explain that Stern & refs did not help them? They gave them favor already when they won last season's title. It's really a biased officiating!!!:mad::mad::mad:

rex.reyesiii
04-03-2013, 03:36 AM
I put myself in self-delusion (If it is really rigged), can't accept the fact(if its a fact) that HEAT 2006 was rigged by the refs and then then then etc. :D

TopsyTurvy
04-03-2013, 09:32 AM
It's all about making money and maintaining a system that favors the players, teams, and situations that make the league the most money. It's what Stern has always been about and will likely not chance with Adam Silver. We won't see anything consistent and fair for a long, long time, if ever. Sad but true.

Therein lies the consistency of the system. I don't think the NBA (organizationally) should be vilified for it. Drive the revenue, get the treatment. It's no different than anything outside of the world of sports.

FYL_McVeezy
04-03-2013, 10:20 AM
My personal belief is that it is all the way rigged, however like the OP stated I can't prove it so I will leave it at that.

But given the points brought up in the original post, I think there is at least evidence that not every team gets treated fairly by the league office. That within itself should make us ask questions about other suspicious aspects of the NBA (Officiating, free agency, etc)

I don't think it's a matter of the league "not being dumb enough" to rig games because of the backlash it would receive. This is a world fueled on the almighty dollar and as long as myself, others on this forum, and people in general continue to watch games and buy merchandise, they could care less what we think about the league being rigged or not.

JiffyMix88
04-03-2013, 10:44 AM
I remember when I used to think like this back when I was 14 and it might be true, the NBA might be telling the refs to lean on a certain team in some games but at the end of the day the players still have to make the shots to get points.

Lil Boy Blue
04-03-2013, 11:47 AM
Don't get me wrong I'm all for resting players but the coach shouldn't need a reason to rest his players. The coach job is to put his team in the best position to win not to appease the media or David stern.

amen! the league imo had no right to fine the spurs for looking toward the future, but if they want to penalize SA then they should give the same punishment to the almighty defending champs. if i were SA i would be calling BS on the league!

8kobe24
04-03-2013, 12:29 PM
I'm not going to claim that the NBA rigs games (though I do believe that they have in the past and will in the future), or that they rig the lottery (though I believe that as well), as both those assumptions require evidence that is simply not present. They cannot be quantified.


But I do think there are some glaring inconsistencies with how the league treats teams, and I do think that it is an issue that can sometimes have drastic impacts on how a team performs.


Obvious issue is the Spurs sitting players against the Heat and being fined for it while the Heat sit players against the Spurs and are not find.

Another is the recent upgrade to a flagrant foul on LBJ. This game, firstly, took place like a week ago. This is a late call. If it was going to be done, it should have been done the next day. Instead, LBJ comes out and claims he's not getting enough fouls (rolls eye). The officials in the game got to look at the replay and determined it was not a flagrant foul. This is not an issue of missing a call or not seeing a play. I understand if the league wants to make a suspension on a player based on a play the officials did not see, or upgrade a suspension on a play the refs deemed worthy of an ejection, but this is not the case here. The game is over. There outcome will not be changed. There was no reason to do this other than to appease LBJ and the Heat.

Last season, when the Heat were playing the Bulls and Wade blatantly shoved Rip Hamilton, not only was Wade left in the game, but the league made no attempt to punish him. In that instance, Wade was CLEARLY not making a play for the ball, yet nothing was done. Adversely, the argument the league is making is that the Bulls players were not making a play on the ball either, when they clearly were. What the Bulls did was make a play on the ball and when the whistle went off, made sure LBJ could get the basket and a free throw. That is what players have been doing for decades. Wade blatantly SHOVED a player, not making a play on the ball, and was allowed to stay in the game, while the Bulls get tagged with a flagrant foul afterwards.

The Heat have not always been the benefactors of such favoritism though, as they once had to give up a first round draft pick to the Knicks for signing their coach away. The Heat insisted that they did things on the up-and-up, but the Knicks, who were the big market team in the east and considered Chi-town's top rivals at the time were rewarded with a first rounder.

When the Lakers signed Shaq, similar rumours circulated that LAL had worked out the contract whilst Shaq was still with the Magic. All parties denied wrong doing, just as the Heat did with the Riley situation, but the Lakers were not forced to offer any compensation as the Heat were, despite the fact that neither case had any proof.

Then there are the illegal draft work out the Knicks have done in the past. Such offenses are punishable by loss of a draft pick or picks, but NY was not punished for it at all.

Minnesota on the other hand, when they made an "illegal" contract, with Joe Smith, not only had that contract nullified and lost the player, they were also fined 3.5 million dollars and had FIVE draft picks taken away from them (two were later reinstated). FIVE FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS!!!! That destroys a teams ability to improve. The reason, Smith agreed to a small contract that allowed flexibility for the T-Wolves with the promise of a larger contract being given at the end of the initial contract.

The thing is, the Cavs did the same thing with Carlos Boozer. They had a team option after his second year, which he asked them decline so he could test the free agent market. They agreed, so long as he agreed to sign with them for a rate that would offer him more for his third season, but a little less than he would have been eligible had he waited to sign with them after his rookie contract expired. This likewise is considered salary cap tampering, and the odd thing about it is that when Boozer signed an even bigger contract with Utah, Paxson, the Cavs GM at the time, came out and publicly admitted the deal and claimed Boozer had stabbed him in the back after making the agreement on a handshake. Despite admitted salary-cap tampering, Cleveland faced no punishments for it (LBJ was their franchise player and hot commodity at the time).


I'm not talking about rigging the draft or the officiating, I'm talking about public decisions the league has made and how consistently they are applied to various teams, and how it in turn impact the team. A 3.5 million dollar fine plus the loss of 5 draft picks? that sets a team up for failure for a decade. 3.5 million to a small market team is a lot of money.


That said, how do you rank the league's consistency with how they apply the rules to different teams? 1 being awful and 10 being the are an ideal model for other leagues. What issues have they been consistent with? And what issues have they failed to be consistent with?

It's all about the $$$. All must bow to Stern.

mjt20mik
04-03-2013, 01:01 PM
It's a business.. if you think things are going to be fair, you are definitely smoking something

JoeBlessU
04-03-2013, 01:40 PM
It's a business.. if you think things are going to be fair, you are definitely smoking something

^^^^ This guy is spot on.. This is not the NFL, MLB or NHL haha. This is the NBA, where parody does not exist